The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ Moral Hazards

00:00:00.000 Now, it's time for the Anchorman Podcast with Matt Gaetz and Dan Ball.

00:00:16.400 Welcome back to Anchorman. It was last week. We had an epic show with my good friend Steve

00:00:22.020 Bannon. So you're going to want to check that out. It was our most successful Anchorman to

00:00:25.880 date. We went over politics and jail and how oddly the two go together. But tonight,

00:00:31.360 I am joined by my on-again, off-again employee, my one and only Indian guru, Vish Burra. Vish

00:00:38.060 was the founding producer of Steve Bannon's War Room. He was a member of my congressional staff

00:00:43.220 and the congressional staff of George Santos, and now is a producer on the Matt Gaetz Show.

00:00:46.980 So, Vish, we went mano a mano with Bannon last week. And as folks consult that episode,

00:00:56.000 I thought maybe we could start out our conversation tonight kind of with your work for a guy who's

00:01:00.700 one of the most influential yet mercurial figures on the political right. You were his producer,

00:01:07.080 his driver. Give us some Steve Bannon stories.

00:01:09.680 You know, I love my experience with Steve because I learned so much of the alternative tactics or sort

00:01:19.200 of these dark art tactics of how you deal with the media and how you influence and how you get not

00:01:24.460 just stories out there, but how you get certain frames around stories out there. And one of the

00:01:31.000 crystallized moments in my memories of working for Steve Bannon was when I was driving him once to New

00:01:38.860 York during the COVID pandemic. I think it was around April. So, this is one of the first times

00:01:44.360 we're even getting out of the house to go somewhere that wasn't, you know, the Washington, D.C. barracks

00:01:50.400 or the war room. And I remember he was on the phone. He was taking phone calls the whole ride up

00:01:57.360 to New York. And it was a lot of phone calls with the media. Now, some of the people he was talking to

00:02:04.680 were conservative reporters and some of them that he was talking to were liberal reporters.

00:02:10.100 But what was fascinating and what I learned that day was how to make sure that on both sides of the

00:02:17.540 story, you're the center player in it. And it actually doesn't. And the way he pitched it to

00:02:23.360 them was he would get on the phone with the conservative reporters and he would, you know,

00:02:28.460 kind of describe what's going on and explain himself or frame himself as the hero in the

00:02:34.040 story to the conservative reporters. Then when he would go and get the liberal reporters on the phone,

00:02:40.540 he would serve up the same story again, but he would portray himself as the villain, right? As the guy

00:02:47.540 who's stopping something or the guy who's, you know, thwarting the liberals' plans on this by

00:02:53.120 helping the conservatives with X, Y, and Z. And what I understood then is that he was giving both

00:03:00.960 sides what they wanted at the end of the day to run the story. The conservatives needed Steve Bannon

00:03:07.420 as the hero in their story. And the liberals needed Steve Bannon as the villain in their story to run

00:03:13.760 it. And therefore, he would play these narratives off each other. And at the end, in both stories,

00:03:19.880 he comes out as the center player. And I thought, wow, that is just a fascinating technique on how to

00:03:26.940 make sure that on both sides, you're being covered. And the, for him, the frame didn't matter. He knows

00:03:32.640 the liberals need a villain for their story. So he's happy to play it for them. Well, and you know,

00:03:36.860 when we think about the great stories of humanity, don't we remember the villains as much as we

00:03:42.860 remember the heroes? Like in Peter Pan, who's the better character, Peter Pan or Captain Hook?

00:03:47.780 Oh, it's got to be Captain Hook. You remember the Lex Luthor energy as much, you know? All the great

00:03:53.920 Batman villains. The Joker is definitely more famous than Batman. And so is there a part of that

00:03:59.080 that is part of Bannonism, that it's okay to be the villain or the anti-hero so long as you're in the

00:04:05.880 story? Oh, absolutely. It's not just that, but I think that that kind of mentality has evolved even

00:04:11.660 really after the Batman, the Dark Knight movie where Joker, you know, Heath Ledger had this

00:04:18.440 historical performance. And then the Avengers movie where Thanos, you know, Infinity War,

00:04:23.280 Thanos becomes this revered villain. And I think that the American public has had more of an appetite

00:04:28.160 for these anti-hero types. The Sopranos. Yeah. And the Sopranos. Breaking Bad. Yes. And we've had,

00:04:34.980 I think, more of an appetite. Are we in the golden age of the anti-hero? Well, I think it's been. Is

00:04:39.080 Donald Trump one? Well, I think it's actually the inverse of that. It's because so many of our heroes

00:04:43.820 or our perceived heroes have disappointed us. And so now I think that there is an appetite for

00:04:50.620 Americans to want to identify with an anti-hero who gets things done, even if he's perceived as the

00:04:58.400 bad guy. For them, it doesn't matter because he does what he or he believes in something and he gets

00:05:04.160 it done any way possible. And that's kind of the role that I see Steve Bannon playing. But not only

00:05:10.460 that, playing that up and serving it to an audience who may never, ever give him the benefit of the

00:05:17.480 doubt of being the hero. Right. And so he says, you know what? In your story, no matter what I say,

00:05:22.580 I will be a villain. So I'm just going to play that up to make sure that that's the story that gets

00:05:28.260 through. I have seen members of Congress attempt this strategy and they believe that they can kind

00:05:34.680 of romance the stone with the media, that they can charm the Daily Beast or the Washington Post or

00:05:41.420 the New York Times. And most of them can't. They don't have the ability that a Bannon does or frankly,

00:05:46.720 a Trump does. I mean, remember, Trump was this charismatic, charming figure to the media all the way up

00:05:52.300 until he became president of the United States. And, you know, I didn't like talking to the leftist

00:05:59.880 reporters. My staff would always say, oh, man, you know, if you talk to them, they hear your

00:06:04.820 perspective. Even if it's a bad story, you'll at least get your voice in it. And I took a, like,

00:06:09.660 in my heart, my approach was all these people are going to do is try to make the work we're doing

00:06:14.700 look bad. And so why lend credibility to the reporting by lending your voice to it? That's not

00:06:21.960 a Bannon perspective. No, hell no. In fact, again, the mentality is I know, I know that I will never

00:06:28.980 be a hero in your story and you're going to write the story. So you know what? Let me go in there,

00:06:34.140 lend voice to it by standing up for what I believe in. And if I have to even sound, because what they

00:06:40.620 really want is that soundbite, right? That soundbite or that voice, that quote that they can go and run

00:06:46.320 and say, look at this bad guy, right? My theory on that learning from Bannon is give it to them.

00:06:53.460 Give it to them because there's nothing you can say to make them see you as the hero. So definitely

00:07:00.100 make sure they remember you as the villain, the bad guy, the one to fear, right? Because that

00:07:04.780 actually has way more of a psychological effect in their future actions against you, right? I think

00:07:11.320 that that is the theory of the case. And I actually think it works. And I kind of have

00:07:16.400 relationships with liberal reporters in the same way. Yeah, you love a little bit of liberal

00:07:22.320 interaction. Actually, go to a little Vishborough Jordan Klepper. What are you going to miss out on

00:07:29.400 if this mandate prevents you from doing it? I just tried to get some Thai. I love Thai food. I just

00:07:33.640 tried to get some Thai food around the corner. They told me I couldn't sit down and eat unless I had a

00:07:39.280 vaccine mandate. Now, I believe things like that were said to Martin Luther King when he tried to

00:07:44.120 walk into places to eat. But they said they had a different reason to make him a second class

00:07:48.920 citizen. Compare yourself to MLK are big words for a guy wearing 80s B-boy jeans. Actually, these are

00:07:54.900 not 80s B-boy jeans. They are new true religions. I know you can't tell because you're a Democrat and

00:08:00.720 you can't afford these things. All right. Well, enjoy. I hope you don't get sick. Thank you. I still

00:08:06.860 haven't yet. Have you gotten COVID? I did. That sucks. Too bad for you. That's the empathy that

00:08:11.860 the young Republicans bring. Thank you. So that was an interesting opportunity you had to face down

00:08:19.020 Comedy Central's best. Yeah. And that is a great example, actually, of that mentality because

00:08:25.320 Jordan Klepper is there trying to villainize me about not taking the COVID vaccine, right? Because

00:08:30.660 I'll get sick and I'll get all these other people sick. Doesn't it look ridiculous today? 0.97

00:08:33.960 Well, it's not just that. But the reason why that clip went viral is because at the end of the

00:08:41.700 very clip, he says, I hope you don't get sick. And I say, well, you know, I still haven't gotten

00:08:45.960 COVID yet to this day, even though I haven't taken the COVID vaccine. Have you, a person who has taken

00:08:50.720 the COVID vaccine? And he says, yeah, I have actually gotten COVID. I'm like, oh, well, sucks too bad for

00:08:55.800 you. And then he accuses me of not being empathetic. The guy was making fun of my genes, right? And my 0.95

00:09:01.340 aptitude and understanding the founding fathers. And then he says, oh, you don't have sympathy for

00:09:07.220 me because I got sick with COVID. Meanwhile, I'm telling this guy, hey, I didn't take the vaccine

00:09:11.820 and I still haven't gotten sick. Maybe there's something wrong with your case, but he's not

00:09:16.420 going to want to hear that. He just wants his soundbite. And you know what? I just want my soundbite.

00:09:20.620 And so I gave it to him. And I think that that exchange is one of the ones that put me on the map

00:09:25.580 in terms of the map. A little bit. Yeah. I have a little spot, a little flag for Vishborough.

00:09:30.800 All right. So we were cutting it up earlier today on one of the big issues shaping the debate on

00:09:36.220 Capitol Hill over this reconciliation bill. And it's the Medicaid program. And there are three major

00:09:42.780 drivers of the federal budget. You've got social security, Medicaid, and Medicare. And Republicans

00:09:48.940 and Democrats are in pretty universal agreement that social security and Medicare are benefits that

00:09:54.880 people have earned, that they've paid into, and that they ought to receive because it helps a lot

00:10:00.240 of elderly folks and folks that can't go out and generate disposable income. Medicaid is where I 1.00

00:10:08.660 would do the cutting. And really, you have to understand in Washington, D.C., a cut doesn't actually

00:10:14.600 mean less money. Okay. When we say cut, only in Washington speak, a cut is a reduction in expected

00:10:23.220 future outlays. Right. So if you're spending X dollars today and the expectation is you're going

00:10:29.660 to spend 100 times X 10 years from now, if you only spend 50 times X 10 years from now, they view that as

00:10:37.660 a cut. Right. Which is absurd. So no one's actually talking about cutting Medicaid. They're talking about

00:10:43.640 reducing the expenditures in the future growth of the program. And I'll lay out some of my critiques of

00:10:50.420 Medicaid. I believe that states aren't given the opportunity to design their own Medicaid systems

00:10:55.340 because the federal government requires you to meet certain requirements in order to get the drawdown.

00:11:00.560 The way Obamacare dumped a lot of able-bodied people into Medicaid, that was Obamacare. You had to be

00:11:08.260 single mom, below the poverty line, or indexed there too in some way. The disabled people who are

00:11:17.740 physically disabled and disabled otherwise get Medicaid benefits. But now under Obamacare, we've

00:11:25.560 put able-bodied adults into this program. And those able-bodied adults are now crowding out a system

00:11:31.640 that was intended for the vulnerable. And so the big fight is whether or not to have a work requirement

00:11:37.960 on Medicaid and whether or not really to send a lot of the Medicaid program to the states.

00:11:43.500 You have posited the theory that the Republican messaging that we're about to hear from Eric

00:11:50.840 Burleson is bad. First, we'll go to Burleson and then get Vish's reaction.

00:11:54.260 The people that truly need Medicaid, we're focused on making sure that that program, if anything,

00:12:00.240 is lifted up and made sound for the people that are the vulnerable population,

00:12:07.120 the age, the blind, the disabled. To make sure that it's available for them, we've got to get,

00:12:12.380 you know, frankly, I call them the deadbeats, the people that are the young, able-bodied, 0.99

00:12:16.960 working-age adults that should be out there working and contributing, but for whatever reason

00:12:20.860 are not.

00:12:22.280 All right. He says they're deadbeats. What say you?

00:12:24.920 This is the most politically tone-deaf messaging that I have heard, especially coming off the heels

00:12:34.740 of Donald Trump's historic 2024 victory, mainly fueled by young men, right? We worked all of 2023

00:12:45.140 and 2024 to get young men to come vote for us. And the first people we decide to attack when we need

00:12:51.560 to go and cut Medicaid is we're going to go and attack young men for being on Medicaid, right?

00:12:58.580 Do you think that the reason young men voted for Donald Trump was so they could get Medicaid

00:13:02.240 without having to go to work?

00:13:03.260 No, not at all. But I don't think that they signed up to be on the receiving end of being

00:13:07.960 villainized as the people that need to be gotten off of Medicaid. Now, I'm not saying that-

00:13:13.680 Can you say that people need to be gotten off of Medicaid without villainizing them?

00:13:16.840 Because I'm not villainizing them. I'm just saying I don't want to pay for your health care.

00:13:19.580 There are a lot of people who aren't villains who I don't want to pay for their health care.

00:13:22.260 Well, I think that then if that's the case, then why is it that young men are singled out?

00:13:27.580 I would say why-

00:13:28.640 By the way, why are you genderizing this? Young women are treated the same way. 1.00

00:13:31.380 Well, no, actually no, because if you go and watch those clips of all these members talking

00:13:35.780 about it, they say, oh no, Medicaid is meant for single mothers and they play the compassion

00:13:40.580 card on single mothers.

00:13:42.220 No, it doesn't treat single mothers differently. This bill doesn't treat single mothers differently

00:13:46.300 than it treats single men. Now, you may critique the messaging, but in the actual bill, my sense

00:13:52.760 is it was all able-bodied. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a reason why

00:13:58.300 able-bodied people shouldn't have to meet a work requirement? And the work requirements

00:14:01.540 are so soft, Fish. The work requirements are 20 hours a week. When you worked for Steve Bannon,

00:14:07.120 you could have met the work requirement in a day. Okay. Yeah. For a month. But by the

00:14:12.420 way, I get, I get that. But I also, I believe the number is something like 65% of people on

00:14:18.080 Medicaid are working either part-time or full-time. Sure. Well, I will concede the numbers I pulled

00:14:24.600 about 12% of the Medicaid population is, is in this basket we're talking about, right? It could

00:14:32.120 be 16. There's kind of some floating numbers depending on, on where you index the year. But

00:14:35.700 why in the world shouldn't you view that as an enormous pot, repository for savings? Because

00:14:42.940 there are other pots, I think that we can go after to make savings. Namely, how many illegal

00:14:49.180 aliens are on Medicaid, right? They meet the work requirement. Well, but that's, but that's 0.99

00:14:54.580 what I'm saying. You're telling me that they should be thrown off. I agree. But why is it

00:14:58.800 the message in starting there? Well, I think in a lot of ways it has. I don't think so.

00:15:04.160 But the Democrats haven't attacked for that. You see, maybe that's a smart tactical play

00:15:08.120 on the Democrats' part. But Republicans have put downward pressure on the ability of states

00:15:13.720 to sign up, you know, every illegal alien that just jumped the border. Where they're being

00:15:18.820 attacked is on the Medicaid expansion population under Obamacare. But you're saying that those

00:15:25.620 people ought to, you know, ought to receive that. I know. It's not that I think that they

00:15:30.780 ought to receive it. I just think that it's, this is politically tone deaf to attack them

00:15:36.120 for it. We don't want, I don't want able-bodied men on Medicaid. I don't want able-bodied women 1.00

00:15:41.740 on Medicaid. Okay. But the question we should be asking is why are those people on Medicaid

00:15:48.020 in the first place? And if I don't see, look, there's that, but also underemployment, but

00:15:54.980 like underemployment, right? And now, and issues like that. If we're not cutting H-1B visas

00:16:00.320 in this same bill, if we're not like cutting all the things or codifying President Trump's

00:16:07.560 re-industrialization executive orders and stuff like this, if you're not codifying that, but

00:16:12.940 your main concern is booting the, you know, the able-bodied men on the bill to go because they're

00:16:20.240 being lazy playing Xbox in their mom's basement. Which plenty are, by the way. Well, and you know

00:16:24.920 what? I'd love to see a demographic outlay on that. You know what I mean? But, but I think that

00:16:32.200 this is, I don't, I don't, I think that there is a lot of non-white Americans who are, who are

00:16:41.480 actually fitting that criteria. And instead they're just lumping every young man in America

00:16:46.720 into this, uh, Democrat, into this, this bucket. And I think that's also wrong.

00:16:52.400 You're making an argument about politics. Let me, let me posit this. The psychology, I was once a

00:16:58.640 young man. And so I have experience with this. I'm somewhat of an expert. Uh, when you're a young

00:17:04.420 man, you don't, you don't think about your healthcare coverage. There's not like that. There's not a wide

00:17:08.960 swath of men under the age of 35 that when they walked into the voting booth made a choice based

00:17:13.680 on what they thought would be better for their, their health insurance coverage. Maybe they voted

00:17:18.880 based on what they thought was better for their physical health, but not like the insurance coverage

00:17:23.420 payment for it. So I don't think your argument lands because I don't, I don't think that the

00:17:27.820 political impact of it is felt even if you don't, even if you feel attacked. No, I, I, it's not,

00:17:32.440 it's not that I feel. I'm not on Medicaid, but I'm a, I'm a, I'm a working guy.

00:17:36.080 I don't lose on Medicaid. 38% of Californians. That's wild. That is wild. 38% of Californians

00:17:44.240 are on Medicaid. Does that discriminate against legal and illegal? That's all. That's the whole

00:17:48.660 kit and caboodle. And it, it, what it does is it crowds out the Medicaid program for people who

00:17:56.580 really need it. And I am not against Medicaid. I don't believe we should eliminate Medicaid. I

00:18:01.000 actually think we should make it stronger, but you don't make Medicaid stronger by taking people

00:18:05.660 who have paid taxes in America, lived in America their whole lives and put them behind the newest 0.92

00:18:11.360 arrivals to our country. I agree. Yeah. We're, we're in agreement on that. Um, there is some 1.00

00:18:18.200 tension in, uh, what we're saying and what I was saying earlier about sending it all to the states

00:18:24.320 because, because let's break this down. I actually would just block grant the program, send it to the

00:18:31.520 states and pretty much let them do what they want. I am that much of a federalist. Now in places like

00:18:37.340 California, they're still going to sign up the illegals, right? They're still going to pay for 1.00

00:18:41.580 the transsexual surgeries on Medicaid. They're still going to do all that weird stuff in other 1.00

00:18:45.560 states. They won't make those mistakes. And I actually think that's okay in federalism. I think

00:18:51.000 that you've, you do need, uh, to show success and failure so that the excess, the success can be

00:18:58.340 appreciated, modeled, nurtured and developed. So if you, if you were like emperor for a day on this

00:19:03.800 Medicaid program, would you block grant it without strings or would you make it the conservative fever

00:19:10.480 dream of, you know, no transsexual surgeries, no funding for the illegal aliens, none of this, 0.90

00:19:16.400 you know, abortion tourism that, that is, uh, flourishing? Oh yeah, no, I would put a ton of

00:19:22.100 strings on it. Uh, that in that, in that way with the block grants, right? I I'm federalists. Yeah.

00:19:27.140 Then it's a categorical grant. It's not a block grant. People like block grants and then do this.

00:19:31.340 The definition of a block grant is you give them the block of money and then leave them alone.

00:19:34.820 What you're describing as a categorical grant. Oh yeah. Well, okay. Then that's what it is,

00:19:38.440 right? I would, I would put a ton of strings on it because look at what, how, what we're,

00:19:42.180 you know, tangentially related as the salt, uh, deductions on that too. Like when you have

00:19:47.440 states going, uh, buck wild in terms of spending collections, and then the federal government

00:19:53.580 is subsidizing this and you have, you know, red staters with responsible policies subsidizing 0.93

00:19:59.500 some of this stuff too. If those salted deductions are in place or the caps are raised or whatever,

00:20:04.340 like eventually these blue states are going to run back to the fed and ask guys like you from Florida

00:20:11.440 to subsidize it again or pay for it again or bail them out. Right. And so I don't believe

00:20:16.720 that these states are ever going to be responsible with it. That's why I would rather do categorical

00:20:22.580 grants. If you've just tuned in and have heard Vish Burra talk about salt deductions, he's not giving

00:20:29.340 you the latest advice he got from his cardiologist. This is actually a policy issue that is being

00:20:33.460 resolved in the reconciliation legislation. It stands for state and local taxes and in blue states

00:20:39.200 like Illinois and California and New York, people are able to deduct those taxes from their federal

00:20:44.200 income taxes. Now, the reason Floridians like myself find that unfair is that we didn't choose

00:20:50.300 to elect people to charge those taxes. We, we view, uh, an income tax at the state level commensurate

00:20:57.660 with a violation of the Geneva Convention in the state of Florida. And so we, uh, we don't think

00:21:03.420 that's fair. Now New Yorkers and Californians would say we are not like on par recipients. It's

00:21:08.760 we're donor states to other places that have other larger population, you know, they have other

00:21:14.260 infrastructure needs and, and, and other, uh, federal government workforce needs. So, uh, I don't know,

00:21:20.500 man, I think that the way they've resolved this with Elise Stefanik getting in there and creating this

00:21:26.260 $40,000 cap for people earning under half a million. I don't love it. Uh, I think that it is,

00:21:32.920 uh, uh, probably, you know, less fair to Floridians than the tax cuts and jobs act that

00:21:39.160 president Trump previously passed. But if it leaves everybody a little uncomfortable and cobbles

00:21:44.440 together the votes, is that, are you good with that as a landing? You know what? 40,000, I'm not,

00:21:49.360 I'm not against that. Right. But you go and talk to those New Yorkers, that 40,000 isn't enough,

00:21:54.660 right? Well, it tells us it's too much. Right. Maybe that's why it's the future of a good deal.

00:21:58.380 Well, and, and I hope so. Right. But, but they're still upset about that number and it's not really

00:22:06.780 about income taxes. It's really about property taxes, right? The, the, what they're trying to do

00:22:12.000 is they're trying to alleviate the, or provide relief to the rich members in their districts,

00:22:18.560 right? That have over a hundred thousand dollars in property tax bills. Right. Right. It isn't for

00:22:24.720 people. Right. No. In these middle class, my middle class constituents, right? Like, you know,

00:22:30.460 rep Lawler, it's, they're not middle class, right? 40,000 will do just fine for a middle class person

00:22:35.840 who owns a home in New York, but it will not do well for his Westchester district or for George

00:22:43.460 Santos's New York three, right? Uh, the gold coast where those people are banging down the doors on

00:22:50.140 salt or anybody on long Island for that matter. That's about the property taxes. And that is

00:22:55.680 really where they're, that's where these people get the gall to say we need, you know, an eight percent,

00:23:00.900 eight, uh, eight times, 10 times raise on the salt cap from 10 K to a hundred K because those

00:23:06.100 multimillion dollar homes are the ones with a over a hundred K tax bills. Bingo. The third big issue

00:23:12.440 that everyone's fighting over is the repeal of the green new deal tax credits. And, um, there are

00:23:18.080 voices on the Republican side looking at some of the features of the green new deal and saying, well,

00:23:23.380 we don't totally hate this part or that part. And, um, you know, I, uh, think that that is really at

00:23:32.800 odds with how pretty much every Republican campaigned. I don't remember a single Republican campaigning on

00:23:38.160 this stuff and yet it's causing a little hiccup, like percentage wise, how much of the green new

00:23:42.860 deal has to be repealed before you consider that a frontline positive effect of the big, beautiful

00:23:48.500 bill. 100%. Right. I'm a, the green new deal is not only is it a total scam, but the whole campaign

00:23:55.960 leading up to us getting the white house and the majority in the house and the Senate was drill,

00:24:03.080 baby drill, baby drill, energy independence. And it was all about energy. Right. And now you're talking

00:24:09.340 about recodifying or keeping in the provisions of forever, by the way, for forever of this never be

00:24:16.100 repealed. Right. So this is just another farce from the house. And I, I, I'm really upset that this is, that

00:24:25.520 we have another example coming up of Republicans campaigning on one thing and doing a totally different

00:24:31.380 thing, especially on the green new scam, you know, for the last four years, we've heard every single

00:24:38.300 line and derogatory term thrown into this green new deal thing and associating it with AOC and Bernie

00:24:45.220 Sanders and all these people. And now once you have the power, they're like, you know what, actually

00:24:50.120 some parts of this is not terrible. This is a, this is a red, redux of 2016, the healthcare. Yeah.

00:24:56.060 It's got very like Obamacare energy to it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what, and again, and, and, but, and if

00:25:02.880 this, if this passes, I mean, look, come 2026, those midterms, if we lose the majority, I mean,

00:25:12.280 we could just look right back at this and, and we'll know exactly what happened. This is what we're

00:25:17.200 running on one way or the other. If we lose the majority, it's because this bill had too many losses

00:25:22.280 and not, not enough wins. And you know, likewise, if it, if we retain the majority, it'll probably

00:25:26.800 be based on some of the things that are in this bill that we like, like the tax cuts, the, the

00:25:31.780 opportunities for small businesses on, on, on depreciating their assets and, and certainly on

00:25:38.000 the lower rates. That's Americans. That's all we've got. Well, there's border stuff in there,

00:25:42.100 but people aren't, people aren't as enthusiastic about that because they've seen how effective Trump

00:25:46.400 was. Right. It's sealing the border just through the sheer will of executive power. Well, I also

00:25:52.220 think that, that, uh, yes, the border stuff is in there. And I think that we, as Republicans,

00:25:57.540 conservatives, the base out there expects that at the least. Right. And so like, yeah, of course,

00:26:02.720 I hope there's border stuff in there. You've, we've only, everyone made this the number one issue.

00:26:07.680 Right. But the, the tax cuts I think are going to be really, really important to deliver if we want

00:26:13.740 a chance at the majority at all, because I think that, uh, you know, yeah, fiscal conservatives,

00:26:18.740 we want to see, uh, tax cuts, you know, paired with spending cuts, but I actually think we're

00:26:23.560 in a period right now where conservatives don't care about the spending cuts part. We just need

00:26:28.760 relief immediately. Even if that means the deficits going up and all that, listen, we're at 30,

00:26:34.020 $40 trillion of debt with all sorts of people getting freebies, at least a little patronage to the

00:26:38.760 people who've worked and voted for president Trump can get some relief with tax cuts.

00:26:45.120 I get that. That's the argument. I hate it because we also made the argument throughout this entire

00:26:52.200 campaign that the debt and the deficits that were, that were piling up each and every year

00:26:58.000 contributed to inflation. Like inflation was just as much a part of this campaign as the border

00:27:03.380 or taxes. And you, when you make the argument that deficits and debt drive inflation, and then you

00:27:09.460 don't really attack deficits and debt. Well, Matt, where's the appetite? Look, how many of the doge

00:27:14.800 cuts are we codifying? Right? How many? So if we're, and we are, our voters are not dumb. They're

00:27:21.880 paying attention to all this stuff. And they're like, you know what, if the doge cuts aren't happening

00:27:25.640 or being codified, just please give me the tax cut relief. You know, we have a lot of the fiscal

00:27:30.860 hawks on our network, on our show. And like, we heard, I don't think they were gaslighting

00:27:37.020 us because they were actually fighting for the cuts, but they would come on night after

00:27:41.080 night and say, we want a trillion in cuts. We want two trillion cuts. And now we're going

00:27:45.620 to end up with like, you know, what a hundred billion, maybe drop in the bucket. Not, I mean,

00:27:52.600 it's like, that's, that's what I'm saying. It's just a hundred billion. You're not, we get

00:27:57.020 it. You're not going to get the spending cuts. We know. And, but I think I've said this

00:28:01.580 to you years ago when I said, listen, the paradigm on, on, on the American public there, it used

00:28:06.860 to be socially liberal, fiscal, fiscally conservative. And now it's flipping over to socially conservative

00:28:12.900 in the sense that like, don't chop my kids' genitals off. But it's amazing that that's 0.99

00:28:17.380 what social patriotism is. Right. Retreated to. Right. And then fiscally liberal, meaning

00:28:22.740 that, okay. Keep giving me my Medicaid. Keep giving me some Medicaid. You know what? The

00:28:28.300 deficits, the spending is not terrible. As long as I get relief, as long as there's patronage

00:28:34.060 provided to me for voting for you. Don't you think that the way Biden drove up these deficits

00:28:39.720 so quickly with these massive spending bills, that people connected that to the higher prices

00:28:44.780 that they were seeing at the grocery store? Of course they did. And don't you think they'll

00:28:47.640 punish us if we spend this much and, and, and the inflation doesn't. Matt, Matt, Biden

00:28:52.240 flooded the zone with 10 million illegals. We can't, we can barely get 200 of them out 1.00

00:28:57.240 without, without a massive fight. You don't think the American public also sees this. We

00:29:01.920 are, we get it. The, right. The, the system has, is against us and we've always, it's always

00:29:07.340 been against us. There's no due process to dump 10 million illegals in your country, but 1.00

00:29:11.480 it's all the due process to get even 200 of them out. Yeah. We're going to wave them

00:29:15.680 in by the plane load, bus load, raft load, and then demand like a trial for each one of

00:29:21.880 them. You know, Attica Finn shows up and defends every illegal alien on the way out. It's, it's

00:29:25.580 completely unsustainable. And if we accept that, we won't get the benefit out of it. Final

00:29:30.100 note here on the Medicaid program. 2024, the Medicaid program cost the country half a trillion

00:29:35.560 dollars. And in 2034, it'll cost a trillion. You know, you go 20 more years out, probably

00:29:45.240 a 2 trillion. Go out. This is, we are not going to be able to spend this amount of money.

00:29:51.300 Now, I don't think that means, I really sincerely don't think that means we have to reshape coverage

00:29:57.240 for people who actually need Medicaid. I think we can actually make that a lot stronger, but

00:30:01.900 we won't do that out of Washington. I've got to, I've got to rid you of this notion that,

00:30:06.440 you know, we put all the strings on because that becomes infinitely regressive. We put strings

00:30:10.080 on the program. They put the next thing, you know, if you want Medicaid, you got to have

00:30:13.320 your pronouns in your email box. And so it's better to just let the states do it. And you

00:30:17.780 know what? My state will continue to crush it and your state will continue to fail.

00:30:22.280 Which one, New York or California?

00:30:24.420 Either one. Folks, there's some real momentum in the fight for affordable healthcare. The

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00:31:18.260 push back on big pharma and make America healthy again. So Vish, you have noticed this new trend

00:31:25.160 in microlending and it is leading to quite the economic catastrophe. Let everybody in on it.

00:31:30.740 Yeah. So Klarna, this company that provides this buy now, pay later service, it's very similar to

00:31:37.540 Affirm and all these micro loan services where you're able to get a loan on like a PS5 that you

00:31:46.440 get from Amazon or even your McDonald's order off of Uber Eats, right?

00:31:52.600 They, they, you can get my burger on layaway. You can get any of the, any of these things,

00:31:58.200 your Chipotle, uh, right. I now pay later on your Chipotle. You're right. And so now this,

00:32:04.000 this platform Klarna has grown to a hundred million users, but now they're a hundred million globally

00:32:11.640 or in the United States? It's globally. Okay. It's globally a hundred million users, but nonetheless,

00:32:15.900 how many of those people you'd think live in America, probably a ton. Right. And so now this

00:32:22.680 company is reporting system-wide losses on this stuff that P that default defaults and delinquencies

00:32:29.020 on these micro loans are going through the roof. Well, yeah, right now, anyone expect, did anyone

00:32:35.780 expect like, you know, Eddie to pay for the burrito that he got on a loan five weeks ago? First of all,

00:32:43.820 your whole business model is built on the idea of providing a loan to a guy who cannot pay for

00:32:50.400 his big Mac right now. Right. And you're supposed to collect from this guy in the future. Now we can

00:32:57.840 economic Darwinism demands this business fail, right? Well, I mean, yes, the economic Darwinism

00:33:04.460 does, right. It's just like, Oh, obviously this is such a dumb idea. Like, why would you do it? 0.99

00:33:08.860 But you know what? I've gotten to thinking about it. And you know, if the big banks during the 2008

00:33:15.240 global financial crisis, if they were all able to get bailed out, right. And we say, well, the banks

00:33:22.000 are too big to fail. Then you don't want my belly is too big to fail on this one. I want my micro

00:33:28.100 loan for the burrito. I want my subprime, you know, sushi loan immediately. Right. Like

00:33:36.980 a floating loan on Outback rates go up. You had to pay more. Exactly. I'll come back when I'm here on

00:33:43.820 my next date, you know, and maybe I'll pay it back. How would that do does at the point of sale,

00:33:49.320 like, is there anything where a date would know if you had to borrow the money for like the Ruby

00:33:53.960 Tuesdays? Well, there, there, there isn't obviously at like, you know, if you go to a

00:33:58.700 restaurant or something like that, no, I don't think that option is available. Yeah. Um, but

00:34:03.000 you know, every day, anytime you go to checkout, there's the, you know, Apple pay option, credit

00:34:08.720 card option, or the Klarna or a firm, uh, option. Right. And so that's, that's how these things

00:34:14.660 operate. Ladies, if your man's picking the Klarna option at checkout, you need to be watching. 0.97

00:34:19.300 Yeah. No, I seriously. And that, that's a, but it, but okay, but also the, the, but you

00:34:24.820 know, this is like the big short too, but like the straight to DVD version, right? Where,

00:34:30.660 but, but it's a signal that, you know, when those delinquencies and defaults go, go at that

00:34:36.700 rate, especially at that level, the subprime level like that, it's a sign that we're hitting

00:34:41.140 recession. Right. And so I, yeah, it was just a dumb business idea to make these loans.

00:34:46.180 Yeah. I mean, there's, there's both, but I, I certainly wouldn't dismiss it. I think

00:34:50.560 that if for a, first of all, for a country to have that many people in a position where

00:34:55.020 they're taking out loans for like, you know, a bowl of ramen, that's that. I think that

00:35:01.800 that is again, catch the signal, not the noise. You know, what is it? Let's dissect what this

00:35:06.920 is a bigger symptom of when I was younger, I got into debt, but it was because people kept

00:35:12.240 mailing me credit cards. And so I would use them. And, uh, that became such a tortured story for

00:35:19.180 an entire generation that ended up like barely being able to pay the minimum monthly payment as

00:35:25.540 debt balances continued to rise. And may, is this type of a decentralized finance system,

00:35:32.820 a response to the failure of the big credit card companies and the big banks. And there's even a

00:35:38.580 middle layer of that. Like if you go to a lot of clothing stores, right, they've got their branded

00:35:43.820 credit card that they want to give you an incentive to get that you can, you know, use at Abercrombie

00:35:49.580 or wherever. And it's kind of like their own vertically integrated Klarn. And so this is just the

00:35:56.900 progression in my mind from the institutionalized banks and credit card systems to the kind of retail

00:36:03.400 point of sale, point of sale, vertically integrated finance model to a totally decentralized finance

00:36:08.080 model. Uh, but someone has to pay at some point, right? And that's, what's not happening now. And

00:36:14.500 is there like less of a recalcitrance to just acquiring debt now? And what does that say about us?

00:36:19.140 Well, here, here's the thing I think from a comp from the company perspective, offering this credit,

00:36:24.440 whether it's the store branded credit card, right? I think why you're seeing that so much in the

00:36:29.480 expansion of this is because the profit margins on selling product is so low that instead the

00:36:37.160 financial services division of the, of the same company through the, through the, the interest

00:36:44.680 actually makes them more money for the bottom line of the company than the actual profit from the sale

00:36:51.780 on the product. This is exactly what happened in the auto industry. Like the auto industry used to be

00:36:55.900 driven by, did you have some swashbuckling fraternity president car salesman who could,

00:37:00.100 you know, get a little extra dollar out of somebody who was going to get the family,

00:37:03.920 you know, Volkswagen. Right. But then when internet pricing created so much transparency

00:37:09.460 that it really became commoditized, it was the finance instrument that ended up being lashed to the

00:37:17.060 automobile that ended up generating a lot of value for the dealerships and the manufacturers.

00:37:22.500 Yeah. That's, that is ultimately what the profit center for all these companies are. It's not

00:37:27.800 Ford motor company that makes a ton of money. It's Ford financial services that provides the loan

00:37:33.680 to buy the car that makes these companies, the profits and the, and the, the beefing up of the,

00:37:38.600 of the bottom line that they need for their investors and shareholders seem to be in an era of moral

00:37:44.280 hazard financially right now. And you talked about the bailouts for the wall street banks. I think that

00:37:49.920 contributed to it. I think that recently when we saw Silicon Valley bank get bailout, that contributed

00:37:56.280 to some moral hazard. And if on the decentralized finance loans, um, there is some alleviation of

00:38:03.000 responsibility, like we saw on student loans, right? Like if we are in an era where more and more and

00:38:07.980 more, there's moral hazard injected because people aren't having to deal with the consequences of

00:38:12.580 their economic choices. Yeah. And it's not compassionate to build that moral hazard into a society.

00:38:17.880 Joe Biden thought he was like being really, uh, I guess, kind to all of the Etsy owners who had

00:38:25.180 their businesses running through Silicon Valley bank. But at the end of the day, banking is an

00:38:29.600 enterprise that requires risk. And if you drain the risk out of that by saying the federal government

00:38:35.980 is just backing the worst decisions people make, then, uh, you, you change it in a way that, um,

00:38:43.080 allows poor choices without having to feel the consequences of their choices. It would be like

00:38:48.800 taking pain away from the human body. We'd all be pretty banged up and bruised up if when we ran

00:38:53.840 into something sharp, our body didn't say, ouch, don't do that anymore. Right. Well, the thing is,

00:38:57.740 is that I think this is also a consequence of the fact that we've socialized the risk, especially for

00:39:03.800 so many of these big companies, the big banks, right? Every, it seems everybody is allowed to

00:39:10.120 get free money except for the little guy. Right. Like that's the way the feeling is. And it's like,

00:39:14.720 well, you know what, if I can beat somebody on a, on a college loan, I'll do it. Right. I'll,

00:39:20.240 and then I'll just go out. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll fall to my burrito payment. Right. I'll perform

00:39:24.400 the sin and then ask for forgiveness later. Right. And so, because God forgives everybody. Right.

00:39:28.980 It's, it's that same sort of similar mentality where a lot of people are saying, you know what,

00:39:33.860 I'll just, I'll, I'll take the burrito loan. Right. I'll never pay it back. And who knows who's

00:39:38.800 going to be on the hook for it at the end of the day, but somebody will forgive it hopefully because

00:39:42.940 look, there's, everyone's getting free money. The rich people are getting free money. All the risk

00:39:47.060 is socialized. Why can't I be part of the pool that has their, their risk socialized too?

00:39:53.520 Well, I guess we'll find out because I don't think people are going to be repaying

00:39:58.940 these loans to Klarna. Oh, hell no. They're not going to be repaying. It either gets socialized

00:40:02.600 or it's the economic Darwinism. Democrats are freaking out at the way we won this last election.

00:40:08.200 And I think we, I think we won it through these alternate media channels, the podcasting,

00:40:14.580 the dominance on socials. We meme better than the left, way better than the left. But we had to do

00:40:21.540 that because we didn't control mainstream media. They had such a control over mainstream media.

00:40:26.640 Like we had to become like the jungle fighting force that found these other ways to build 0.99

00:40:31.600 organizations. Now we've got this big story coming out about debt, Democrat mega donors

00:40:37.140 investing gajillions of dollars into an influencer army as like, like, like some sort of squid game

00:40:45.240 that they hope a left wing Joe Rogan arises out of. What say you, Vishper?

00:40:50.460 Well, right now that these Democrat mega donors are fielding a ton of pitches, right? Everyone's saying,

00:40:55.480 I got the next idea for the liberal Joe Rogan. I got the next idea to create the infrastructure.

00:41:01.020 I would love to be a fly on the wall in those pitches. Like, can you imagine the left wing

00:41:05.400 activists walking in and being like, so I've got the next new idea, a podcast with no gender. 0.68

00:41:11.320 Well, and you know what? The first thing that should be said in those meetings is you guys had

00:41:17.420 a liberal Joe Rogan. His name was Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan endorsed Bernie Sanders for president.

00:41:23.960 Exactly. So, so ridiculous. What the question is, how did we scare Joe Rogan away? And it's because, 0.98

00:41:30.620 right, that's actually the problem that they're trying to, that they actually should be solving.

00:41:34.940 Yeah, rather than finding the next Joe Rogan, they should realize why they lost the last one.

00:41:38.720 Right. And, and you know what? And a lot of Democrats are smart, are smart to this, but

00:41:43.580 obviously the, the mega donors and the donors, it's so crazy how the donors are like the last

00:41:49.540 to find out about like what's really going on too. That's how they get scammed out of so

00:41:53.500 much money, right? In the first, in the first place. But, uh, these, they're going to these

00:41:58.940 donors saying, yeah, we can find the next Rogan or whatever. Now, two things point one, this

00:42:04.160 is going to fail. And the reason this is going to fail is because Democrats, I don't care if it's a,

00:42:10.320 a, uh, politician, non-politician type, whatever, they are so scared and walk on eggshells to say

00:42:17.860 anything, right? And the whole point of why these guys, especially your Aiden Rosses, Tim Dillons of

00:42:22.740 the world, Joe Rogans is because they're willing to explore the edgy, right? And they're willing to

00:42:28.320 have conversations about things that not everyday people talk about. And, and, you know,

00:42:33.900 perhaps entertain a uncouth idea or, you know, talk about it honestly, in a way with authenticity,

00:42:40.860 the, the lack of authenticity on the left and the lack of wanting to foster authenticity,

00:42:49.540 right? Allowing someone to have a bad opinion or a wrong opinion in the first place without being

00:42:54.280 canceled, right? That is what stops them from being. Oh, so you think it's structural? Yes.

00:43:00.040 This is just a, um, the talent hasn't, hasn't gone that way or they've run off the top. You think

00:43:05.940 that, um, the, the nature of the social contract on the political left right now does not provide

00:43:13.660 the oxygen for the type of creativity and boundary pushing that, that brings in people. No way,

00:43:21.680 no way. And remember the audience, they couldn't even keep their Chanka. What was that? What's that 0.91

00:43:26.000 guy? The young Turk guy's name? Oh, Chank, Chank, you, Chank, couldn't he, because he said something 0.78

00:43:30.640 their next Rogan, right. Or Anna Kasparian, like, you know, saying, I don't want to hear about Kamala

00:43:36.600 Harris running for president or running for governor of California in 2026, right? I don't want to hear

00:43:42.420 that. They go and try, you know, cancel her for that. Right. And so it's, it is a structural,

00:43:47.680 like you said, it is a structural problem that their ideology and their, uh, the way that they

00:43:54.240 signal to each other, social status is the very thing that keeps them from finding that Joe Rogan,

00:44:00.860 because remember, why did we go on all those podcasts in 2024 to reach young men? We didn't

00:44:05.900 just go on them. We built them. Yeah. Well, that's, that's the other thing too, right? We built them

00:44:10.160 when we built them out of the, out of basements. Yeah. When we started, I mean, you and I have been

00:44:14.300 involved in the building of a number of podcast projects that have been very successful. But

00:44:18.660 when this all began, I never really believed that it was going to be like a needle to the

00:44:25.340 veins of young men. Right. I didn't think, you know what men under the age of 35 are really looking

00:44:30.240 to do, sit around and listen to the two of us yak it up for an hour. Right. But actually, like,

00:44:36.260 why is that, that that's so attractive? Is it because of the boundary pushing? It is because

00:44:40.560 of the boundary. It's the willing to explore the unexplored, right? The manliest thing you could

00:44:44.900 do is go into a dark hole and come out the other side. This is not that kind of show.

00:44:50.820 I mean it in the, the Jordan Peterson way of like walking into the dark cavern.

00:44:55.240 Yeah. Like the conquistador. Yes. Uh, the, the whole notion of conquest. Right. That, right. So

00:44:59.740 they're going into the unknown and then making sense or bringing order to the unknown, right? That is

00:45:05.380 the most manly, uh, sentiment or instinct that a man can have. But, but if that's true, you have to

00:45:12.440 keep going. Yes. Of course. Because this becomes too known, right? Well, yeah. And we, like, we've been

00:45:17.520 told that, that in the coming years, it's going to be the great time of acquisition of these podcast

00:45:23.400 properties that, that companies like, you know, uh, Discovery and News Corp, you know, pick your

00:45:30.100 favorite media conglomerate that rather than paying like the, you know, massive salary to,

00:45:37.480 uh, Rachel Maddow, that it's going to be the acquisition of podcast networks. That's going

00:45:43.040 to drive. Yes. And by the way, that's totally right. And you've already seen this paradigm has

00:45:48.060 existed in the culture space or the, the art space for a long time. You know, there was a difference,

00:45:54.320 uh, but I, I like to, uh, use the analogy of the rap game or the hip hop industry, right? It

00:46:00.040 was all like everyone who was cool. Listen to the underground rapper, right? The, the guy who's

00:46:05.380 not famous yet. That's the one everyone's like, Oh, you're not up on this guy. That's what's really

00:46:10.160 cool is listening to happening in podcast. And now they go mainstream, right? And so because that guy

00:46:16.020 got popular, that underground guy got popular and the big companies realize that everyone's listening

00:46:20.860 to that guy, they go and sign the deal with that guy. And then that guy goes mainstream. And then,

00:46:26.980 you know, now you get all the bells and whistles of being in the mainstream and the big check,

00:46:30.840 and maybe you drop one great hit or one great album with that new deal, but then everything

00:46:36.120 else kind of falls off after. Right. And why is that is because you don't have the drive,

00:46:40.940 right? For just these podcasts that we built out of the ground, we didn't start that by making

00:46:46.060 pitch decks to multimillion dollar mega donors. No, we just did it with like 15 grand budget for a

00:46:54.760 microphone and a lens. You're right. That's how that that's the underground aspect of it. And

00:46:59.180 then we start rapping on that. And then people are listening. Well, man, this is the good stuff.

00:47:04.040 This is where the real information is. These are the guys who are talking about all the things

00:47:07.540 that the mainstream people won't talk about. But once everyone starts listening to that,

00:47:12.280 and the big guys understand that, then that's when they come with the, the offer that you can't

00:47:18.060 refuse. We've only got a couple of minutes left, but since you mentioned rap culture,

00:47:22.140 does Diddy get convicted? You know what? I don't think so. Oh, hot take. Yeah. Make the case for

00:47:29.780 Diddy's innocence, Vish Burra, or at least his, uh, uh, you, your belief that he would not be found

00:47:34.520 guilty. Uh, you know what? From the coverage that I've seen of this, Diddy's lawyers are doing a

00:47:41.120 fantastic job. By the way, this is a redux of like late nineties, early two thousands Diddy, where he's

00:47:48.420 got the, like a top notch legal team and PR team on this. And the other side's got a Comey. I mean,

00:47:54.280 sure. They got a Comey, but right now, you know, apparently, but he doesn't know what 86, 47 means,

00:48:00.220 right? That's where we are with the Comey side right now. We got people playing dumb. Right. And so now

00:48:05.000 that's not Diddy's team. Diddy's team is going up slicing and dicing. And the main Cassie being the

00:48:10.460 main witness there, they got her admitting that she was going, you know, she had claimed that he raped her 0.92

00:48:15.800 or sexually assaulted her, but then was hanging out with him and having sex with him after,

00:48:20.220 after that, this incident took place. I think you're going to respond, uh, very unfavorably to 0.81

00:48:24.700 that characterization by the prosecution for, you know, because of some of those facts that have

00:48:30.380 come out. And when I heard and saw this coverage of the Diddy thing, I thought that, uh, there would

00:48:36.120 be this mountain of victims who had been forcibly coerced into things they didn't want to do.

00:48:42.180 And, uh, now what it looks like is that he's definitely guilty of domestic violence, which

00:48:47.980 is terrible. He hasn't been charged with domestic violence, which is interesting. If he were charged

00:48:51.900 with that, I think he would be convicted, but that's a state matter. And this is a federal

00:48:55.680 prosecution. And so what they're having to prove, they have, they have precisely one victim,

00:49:00.020 right? One Cassie Ventura. And that victim is on, is in text messages saying she hopes the next

00:49:08.640 freak off isn't the last freak off, but the first freak off for the rest of their lives.

00:49:12.940 Yeah. And you know, if Cassie regretted those, that's awful, but it's at least a mixed message.

00:49:19.780 Yeah. If while she's regretting it, she's making those statements. And, uh, there, I guess could

00:49:25.100 be two reasons that she had, uh, participation in these events. One that she was forcibly violently,

00:49:32.920 uh, coerced or extorted. And the other, uh, she didn't want to lose her man. And she did things

00:49:38.260 she didn't want to do because she didn't want to lose her man. Now, one of those is probably

00:49:42.200 sex trafficking and a crime. And the other one definitely isn't. Right. And this fact pattern

00:49:48.420 seems to meld the two pretty substantially. I'll give you the last word on it.

00:49:51.820 Yeah. I look, I think in the days after the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial and, and, you know,

00:49:57.280 especially in the days after me too and all this stuff. And there's a lot of, uh, let's

00:50:01.760 say believe all women isn't the standard anymore. I think that's, that's, that's being applied 1.00

00:50:06.960 here too. All we have to do is believe her own text messages. Well then that she's consenting

00:50:11.960 to the conduct. Well then, and then, but if she goes on the stand and says something different

00:50:15.620 now, what do you believe? Right. And so I think that this mixed, what was, did he supposed

00:50:20.480 to believe? Well, that, well, and by the way, is he allowed to believe something that is

00:50:25.120 not criminal? Like, Oh, I think she is totally into it. If that's what she's saying, right?

00:50:30.220 I'm not saying he's a good guy. I think he should definitely be convicted of the crimes

00:50:33.420 that he obviously committed, but those seem to be state crimes around assault, battery,

00:50:40.520 domestic violence. It does not seem to be a federal sex trafficking case.

00:50:43.720 Whatever this is, it's not, it's not it. So I think he, I think he, he gets off on this

00:50:48.800 and then maybe goes to state and gets, gets did there for DV or something.

00:50:52.960 Bishborough, it is always a pleasure to chop it up with you, man. Thanks for hanging out

00:50:56.720 with me on Anchorman and make sure to leave us a five-star rating, a review, and always

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The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - May 22, 2025

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ Moral Hazards

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