The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ The Best Homeless Man in California

00:00:00.000 Now, it's time for the Anchorman Podcast with Matt Gaetz and Dan Ball.

00:00:19.820 We're doing something completely different on today's episode of Anchorman.

00:00:24.560 We've been talking about the homelessness challenge in California from almost every

00:00:29.500 angle.

00:00:30.120 We've talked to lawmakers, community advocates.

00:00:33.240 We've talked to people in the law enforcement and first responder community.

00:00:36.840 But we hadn't talked to someone who had actually lived out the experience of being homeless

00:00:42.540 in the state of California day in, day out.

00:00:45.280 We didn't know what to expect when we met Jackie recently.

00:00:49.000 And we found someone who is deeply caring, deeply thoughtful, and who thinks about a lot

00:00:57.320 of the questions that may be on your mind and may be on the mind of people who are having

00:01:01.900 to somehow wrangle the intersection of great wealth and opportunity among some, and then

00:01:08.320 others who have fallen through the cracks.

00:01:10.260 In this discussion, I found a piece of my own humanity, and I hope you will too.

00:01:15.200 This is my favorite interview I've done on Anchorman.

00:01:18.260 Enjoy.

00:01:18.620 So I'm here with Vish, and I'm here with Jackie, and we met Jackie.

00:01:23.140 Vish and I were at a comedy club in La Jolla, California, and we met Jackie on the way out.

00:01:30.620 And you were just as interesting as everybody we just heard from in the comedy club.

00:01:34.380 So we wanted to come chat with you.

00:01:36.360 And what we always like to do is just ask folks who you are, where you're from.

00:01:41.200 Just tell us a little bit about your life.

00:01:42.640 I mean, there's a lot to pick from, so if there's anything particular, I'm originally

00:01:50.460 from North California.

00:01:52.060 My mother's up there in Cloverdale.

00:01:56.180 Turned 50 this year, so I've got that half century of experiences to draw from.

00:02:03.800 But I've just had an extremely varied and colorful life.

00:02:09.580 So if there's anything you want to know about it.

00:02:11.140 Tell us about the moments that you find most interesting or colorful in half a century

00:02:16.480 on Earth.

00:02:17.420 What do you look back and say makes the highlight real?

00:02:19.680 Well, like, you know, I mean, I'm homeless at the moment, unfortunately.

00:02:24.600 And one thing that people just don't seem to get, even if they say they get it, they don't

00:02:32.040 really get it, which is that basically anybody could be homeless, right?

00:02:36.380 And when people say they get that, a lot of times they think, oh, sure, anybody could have

00:02:42.340 a drug problem or anybody could be schizophrenic.

00:02:45.160 And it's like, well, no, like anybody could, like, even if it's very unlikely, literally

00:02:53.320 anybody could find themselves in a position where they just don't have any more options.

00:02:57.840 And that's just sort of where I landed after living in my car for three years during the

00:03:04.960 pandemic, like 2020 to 2023.

00:03:06.940 I was traveling the country, living in my car, working a lot because living in your car

00:03:12.060 is expensive.

00:03:13.900 So I was mostly just doing DoorDash.

00:03:15.580 What are the costs of living in your car?

00:03:17.400 Is it the...

00:03:18.020 Just like hotel, food, you know, it's like every couple of days you want to get a hotel

00:03:21.860 room.

00:03:23.020 Eating out is super expensive.

00:03:25.260 And also just like out of boredom, I just work all the time.

00:03:28.680 So I wasn't really enjoying the experience.

00:03:31.500 But, you know, still it was by choice.

00:03:33.420 It was like...

00:03:34.280 That was a choice you made during COVID, you decided you wanted to live out of your car

00:03:38.340 and kind of make your car into your business and DoorDash.

00:03:40.300 Well, I had to move.

00:03:41.900 And I was facing up as like, well, I'm going to have to move to...

00:03:44.800 Why'd you have to move?

00:03:45.440 Back to the West Coast.

00:03:46.800 Just like my wife had left me in like 2018.

00:03:52.020 And then I was staying with somebody.

00:03:54.260 And just like the situation where they had to, you know, like they were going to have to

00:03:58.400 move.

00:03:58.820 So I was just going to have to move.

00:04:00.060 I see.

00:04:00.680 And it was just time.

00:04:01.880 It was time to get out of the area.

00:04:03.040 Time to like get back to the West Coast.

00:04:06.400 And that turned into, you know, I was like, well, I'm just going to take my time about

00:04:11.960 it.

00:04:12.340 And as I was just going from place to place, like St. Louis to Vegas, Boulder, just traveling

00:04:18.340 six months at a time in each place, I was just enjoying that part of it where I was like,

00:04:22.540 well, I don't want to just stay here.

00:04:24.380 And then unfortunately, my car, I thought it was just the battery.

00:04:28.120 Tried to fix it.

00:04:29.320 Had no more money.

00:04:30.200 Had to junk it.

00:04:30.800 That was in Vegas.

00:04:31.960 And that was two years ago.

00:04:33.440 And so you don't have a car anymore.

00:04:35.500 Right.

00:04:36.460 Because the last time I was out here, I lived in Ocean Beach 10 years ago.

00:04:40.540 And that was one of the last times I was out here like successfully.

00:04:44.120 I thought, well, this is a place I know.

00:04:46.540 This is somewhere I can come back to, you know.

00:04:48.180 Well, compare for me, like the experience of living in the car for three years versus what

00:04:53.620 you're doing now.

00:04:54.940 In a lot of ways, it's funny.

00:04:56.540 It was actually more stressful and like harder because when you're living like people don't 0.96

00:05:03.920 realize like sleeping on concrete, you get used to that pretty quick.

00:05:06.760 Like just physically, it's not uncomfortable.

00:05:09.320 And once you get used to like finding a place that no one's going to bother you, it really

00:05:14.560 becomes a bit of a like minor inconvenience.

00:05:18.680 But when you're when you're living in your car, you you you can't really like put your

00:05:23.720 car somewhere without scrutiny.

00:05:25.680 So you're always having to like move it.

00:05:27.960 You're always having to like go from coffee shop to coffee shop and you got nothing to do.

00:05:32.580 And, you know, you've got no no way to have a social outlet.

00:05:35.760 So, you know, it's just it's it's very isolating.

00:05:39.600 You know, you spend all your day just sitting in your car and in a way it's worse than being

00:05:44.980 on the street because you're not even encountering people.

00:05:46.960 You're not even getting that, you know, you're not even getting that part of life.

00:05:50.780 So if you had if you had the money, like it doesn't sound like a car would be your next

00:05:54.660 purchase.

00:05:55.380 Well, it probably would just because it would let me go right back to work.

00:05:59.180 Oh, just because I still have like active DoorDash and Uber accounts.

00:06:01.980 I could just like go right back to that.

00:06:03.880 So I've noticed that I've noticed that this that like in America today, the car is almost

00:06:10.620 is a really big dividing point for a lot of Americans because of what Jackie just said.

00:06:15.300 Like if you have a car, you are a few clicks away from being able to generate some revenue.

00:06:22.140 And even if it's not DoorDash or even if it's not strictly car based, if you have a vehicle,

00:06:27.000 it's so easy to think, well, if if if this person needs this and I can get this cheaply

00:06:33.300 here, put it in my car, transport it here.

00:06:35.640 The American, you know, it's like the American dream is like capitalism.

00:06:38.620 It's not easy to do that if you don't have a place to like store your goods.

00:06:41.800 But like I've I've I've certainly noticed a lot of things where I could like, well, I

00:06:46.760 could probably make money by like I see a need here.

00:06:50.140 I could fulfill that need by, you know, transporting one good from there to there.

00:06:54.940 Or I could like, you know, do something like I'm a tarot card reader.

00:06:58.600 So I could I've always had that option of like, well, I can do entertainment.

00:07:02.620 And when you don't have a car, you don't have any kind of base of operations.

00:07:05.920 There's just no way to to like have a legitimacy.

00:07:11.800 How would you even describe your base of operations now?

00:07:15.100 Non-existent.

00:07:16.100 I mean, I like I'm lucky in that I have like an area of town where I feel comfortable in

00:07:20.460 and I've been in the same area for like, you know, like you said, I've been there for

00:07:24.020 like a year and a half at this point.

00:07:25.560 And it's it's good to have the option of like, oh, people know you.

00:07:29.480 And if if if I was ever like, God forbid, like bleeding or something, I think that I

00:07:35.540 could like probably say, hey, you've seen me around, you know, can you call an ambulance?

00:07:39.400 Well, you know, there's something interesting about that.

00:07:42.080 And I want you to react to this.

00:07:43.520 I just was talking to a friend of mine about some of the homeless problems that they have

00:07:49.220 in OB or in in other parts of Southern California.

00:07:52.160 OB is really bad.

00:07:53.200 And they say, you know what?

00:07:54.440 We have our people that we know that are in the area that we know aren't trying to hurt

00:07:58.280 anybody, just like Jackie said, somebody who could could be in this situation for a very

00:08:03.660 variety of reasons.

00:08:04.920 Right.

00:08:05.160 And we don't worry about those folks.

00:08:06.580 They're here.

00:08:07.280 We know there's a familiarity.

00:08:09.060 It's it's when, you know, we had like a ton of of migrants, of illegal aliens who are

00:08:15.380 living on the streets that didn't have any real familiarity with the community.

00:08:19.540 And it's when sometimes you just have this huge tourism push where at certain times of

00:08:24.720 the year you get kind of a traveling group of people that don't have that same kind of

00:08:29.580 connection.

00:08:30.040 Do you think do you think people think about it?

00:08:31.920 Oh, yeah.

00:08:32.400 No, I know this firsthand, actually.

00:08:35.200 So when I first moved to Staten Island in my neighborhood on my block, there was exactly

00:08:40.700 one homeless person that everybody in the neighborhood knew.

00:08:44.280 His name was Johnny.

00:08:45.960 And, you know, we'd call him Johnny.

00:08:47.860 Give me a dollar.

00:08:48.440 Because every time you'd go walk by him, he says, hey, brother, do you have a dollar?

00:08:52.200 So and there's a church at the corner of my of my house.

00:08:57.120 And whenever church would come out, some of the congregants would go over to Johnny and

00:09:01.440 say, hey, would you like a sandwich?

00:09:03.100 Would you like something?

00:09:03.860 They would try to help him.

00:09:05.160 He's lived there for, give or take, about six or seven years.

00:09:08.820 The thing is that people in the neighborhood knew who his family was, too.

00:09:12.580 And they would always go to Johnny and say, hey, you have a sister in Pennsylvania.

00:09:16.840 Why don't you go live with her? 0.93

00:09:18.260 His sister would come down and try to convince Johnny to come back with her.

00:09:22.500 And he would say, no, I want to stay here.

00:09:24.760 I want to stay here.

00:09:25.440 And he would live on the street so that I was never scared of Johnny as a kid growing

00:09:30.280 up because everybody knew Johnny.

00:09:32.060 It was, you know, and it was fine.

00:09:33.700 But this homeless tourism aspect that you see now, which is incentivized also by some weird

00:09:40.400 laws in New York or some weird laws in California or some vibes in California, per se.

00:09:45.000 You know, I think that that is actually what's kind of hurting, you know, what's hurting these

00:09:51.340 localities that are dealing with this homeless problem en masse, basically.

00:09:55.120 Do you know other people who, like, live around your area who are homeless as well?

00:09:58.980 Is there, like, a community to it or is it isolated?

00:10:01.620 Well, that actually, that kind of ties into something that what he was saying that brings

00:10:05.700 a couple things up where what people don't, um, one thing that's really what is, I think,

00:10:13.100 important to understand is that it's, I think that we should solve the easiest problems first.

00:10:18.940 And when it comes to, like, because I've met a lot of homeless people and to be honest,

00:10:23.780 the vast majority of them are not like me, are not, you know, off drugs and sane and unfortunately.

00:10:30.560 But here's the thing, if someone is in a position like I am where all it takes is a job or all

00:10:38.100 it takes is, like, if I had, you know, housing, I could immediately get a job.

00:10:42.780 The only thing that's keeping me from a job is nobody is going to, and I've had to hire

00:10:47.200 people, so I know this is, like, understandable.

00:10:49.740 But no one's going to take a chance on a homeless person just because, you know, like, if you

00:10:53.640 don't know where you're going to sleep, are you going to come into work tomorrow?

00:10:56.280 You know, very understandable concern, but that's what gets me is, like, well, there

00:11:02.300 are a lot of homeless people who have very, very difficult challenges, let's put it that

00:11:07.300 way.

00:11:08.200 And that's a problem that's going to need to be solved, but why not solve the easy one

00:11:12.080 first and find the ones that are like me and figure out some pathway?

00:11:16.600 Because right now, there's just not, like, a pathway for me to get off the street.

00:11:20.460 There's not, like, a, there's no...

00:11:23.060 What would that look like?

00:11:23.960 Help us understand what that would look like.

00:11:25.800 Like, for example, in the UK, what they've had for a long time is they have government

00:11:30.120 work agencies where they, you know, you go in and they help you find a job.

00:11:34.080 And we just don't do that in America.

00:11:35.560 I've never understood why.

00:11:37.440 But it's just not really a thing that, like, we're not really...

00:11:41.080 No, we have those.

00:11:41.980 We have those in this country.

00:11:43.480 Right, right, right.

00:11:44.220 But it's not, like, it's not in the same sort of easy institutionalized way.

00:11:47.580 It's more of, like, a lot of it, when I've tried to go to some programs in this county,

00:11:52.100 they're like, well, do you have a drug problem?

00:11:55.420 We can get you into a halfway home. 0.77

00:11:56.920 And I'm like, no?

00:11:58.860 And they're like, do you have... 0.74

00:12:00.060 Okay, are you schizophrenic? 0.93

00:12:01.660 We can get you SSI. 0.99

00:12:02.660 And I'm like, no.

00:12:04.500 I'd rather just have a job.

00:12:05.920 And they're like, well, we can't force anyone to hire you.

00:12:08.920 Because there's no incentive.

00:12:10.440 There are incentives to hire people who have, like, problems.

00:12:13.460 Yeah.

00:12:13.740 Like, there are tax breaks for that.

00:12:15.140 But there's no incentive to hire someone who's just homeless.

00:12:18.380 And they will never admit that, generally speaking.

00:12:21.120 They'll be like, oh, well, let's keep at it.

00:12:23.600 But there's no, like, there's just no...

00:12:25.880 There's just no...

00:12:27.800 It's just not a thing.

00:12:29.320 And I've never understood why.

00:12:31.600 So the problem is you're a normal cisgender homeless man. 0.97

00:12:37.160 And therefore, there's no outlet for you or no incentive for these programs to help you.

00:12:43.200 I think it's something more sinister than this.

00:12:44.800 Based on some of the feedback we've gotten from policymakers in this area, there is a homelessness industrial complex.

00:12:52.200 That's it.

00:12:52.840 Right.

00:12:54.060 That's what it is.

00:12:54.720 You already know what I'm going to say before I'm going to say it.

00:12:56.480 There are, you know...

00:12:58.360 Because, like, here's the thing.

00:13:01.300 You look at someone like me.

00:13:03.680 In a lot of ways, I am a pretty normal person.

00:13:08.380 And I don't mean that in, like, an exceptional way.

00:13:10.160 I mean, you know, if someone...

00:13:12.000 If you're going to talk about a program to help someone like me get a job, they're going

00:13:15.420 to say, great, what makes him any different from all the other people who want work?

00:13:22.360 You know?

00:13:23.220 Why not just apply and just go...

00:13:25.620 And if they don't want to hire you, well, too bad.

00:13:28.300 And I think that what that's overlooked or what that's not seeing is that there are...

00:13:35.160 And I don't want to, like...

00:13:38.000 I don't want to sound like I'm being unhumble or like I'm being arrogant.

00:13:44.560 But there are homeless people like me who are...

00:13:47.580 You know, I went to UCF on a full scholarship based solely on my SAT scores.

00:13:52.800 Not even...

00:13:53.220 I didn't even get good grades.

00:13:54.520 Like, there are homeless people who are very intelligent, very willing to work.

00:13:59.440 Like, I've worked my whole life.

00:14:01.380 And yet, even for me, there's no, like, I can't go to...

00:14:05.880 I can't go and, like, sign...

00:14:08.120 Like, go to the SSI office and say, hey, look, can you help me with this job search?

00:14:13.620 Because they'll be like, well, that's just not something we do.

00:14:16.960 And...

00:14:17.280 No, they'd rather get you on a program.

00:14:18.860 They'd rather get you on a government program. 0.59

00:14:20.440 Right.

00:14:20.760 They'd rather get me on...

00:14:22.260 SSID.

00:14:23.300 Yeah.

00:14:24.040 And if there's no pathway for someone like me, how do you expect...

00:14:27.620 Like, the people who have it worse, how do you expect...

00:14:29.760 Like, what are we going to do with them?

00:14:31.220 Well, aren't they just going to follow the system into some halfway house rotating cycle?

00:14:37.680 And the thing is, we're not even doing that intelligently.

00:14:39.920 What I was thinking about on the way here was we need to, like, think of some rather radical new ideas.

00:14:46.400 Like, when it comes to the homeless people who are truly, like, so mentally unwell, they can't even integrate into society.

00:14:54.840 And I met one of them today.

00:14:56.380 Like, I meet them every day.

00:14:57.840 They are very taxing on, you know, because they only bother...

00:15:01.580 They bother other homeless people.

00:15:03.300 They don't bother, you know, quote-unquote normal people that much.

00:15:06.180 They mostly bother...

00:15:07.340 We bother each other.

00:15:08.260 So, anyway, when it comes to someone like that, why not, if we're going to have to hospitalize that person, if we're going to have to get them some kind of, like, mental health help, why not at least turn that into some kind of revenue, like, give them the option of blogging all their thoughts?

00:15:29.360 Because you know as well as I do, everyone in the world loves to watch other people on YouTube.

00:15:35.000 We love to just watch other people.

00:15:36.860 And there are people who are doing it for free.

00:15:39.500 So, why not, like, just think of things like that.

00:15:41.440 Well, if they can't get a regular job, if they can't...

00:15:43.660 If they're so mentally unwell that they can't even, like, wash dishes, you know, for crying out loud, at least give them, like, all right, you're going to be in a mental health hospital, and then we're going to turn that into revenue.

00:15:56.400 Instead of being a drain on the system, we're going to actually create money.

00:15:59.540 We're going to give them the option to, like, blog their thoughts and ideas, take the ad revenue from those videos, put it back into the, you know, like...

00:16:08.340 This is an incredibly creative idea to take the economy of content creation and to take a population that...

00:16:19.640 Like, apply that to fix a problem instead of making it worse.

00:16:21.960 I don't know what the world looks like if we arm the homeless population in this country with the technical capability to blog and put stuff on the internet. 0.99

00:16:35.060 You have talked with me a lot about how Twitter has changed, and Instagram, I would say, TikTok, because there's so much stuff that, like, isn't really thought-provoking, but it's just captivating.

00:16:47.620 And that's what it's based on. That's the foundation of the entire planet.

00:16:51.140 Is that what we're talking about here?

00:16:52.780 Well, yeah, absolutely. There's, I mean, there is value to the content that captures you, but might not, you know, spring off some philosophical thoughts or create new knowledge in the knowledge base out there.

00:17:07.660 But that does perform well amongst many people all across Earth, right, when you consider that pool.

00:17:13.700 Well, there will be some who watch this and say, well, wait a second, like, how technically deft is the homeless population?

00:17:21.260 And so maybe talk to us a little bit about how many people you observe who are also homeless, who have a cell phone, who have a laptop, like, who have a Wi-Fi hotspot.

00:17:30.680 Like, how is the communication stream going now?

00:17:34.160 Pretty much everyone has a cell phone because they have the, you know, at the very least, you can get the government phone, the free, you know, the free government phone.

00:17:41.060 So the government of California is giving...

00:17:42.340 Or the, well, it's not just the government. They've partnered with those companies to where the companies are actually making money by giving the phones away for free somehow.

00:17:53.000 Yeah, no, they're paying, all the people who, you know, are paying taxes, right, are paying into that system.

00:17:58.340 So everyone has a cell phone.

00:18:00.360 Right, but that's not, but most people don't actually take advantage of that.

00:18:03.600 But, like, when you're homeless, like, people look at me and they're like, well, you know, you've got a phone, you've got this and that.

00:18:11.240 And I'm like, well, I don't drink or do drugs.

00:18:14.000 You know, a lot, like, when you're homeless, you're not generally having to, like, if you see a homeless person digging in the garbage, it's generally not because they have to.

00:18:24.740 That's generally some kind of choice in their head, you know.

00:18:29.760 And why is that? Because food is...

00:18:31.640 Well, no, because even if you're homeless, you can make money.

00:18:34.200 Like, there are ways, like, even if it's panhandling, there are ways to make a little bit of money.

00:18:40.600 Is that the way most make money?

00:18:41.940 No, I would say, like, I mean, I play music, you know, I've got the guitar thing, but I would say most will just do recycling.

00:18:53.240 I mean, of the ones that I see doing anything besides just, you know, I mean, a lot of them are on SSI, but the ones that are actually doing things, they're just, like, recycling.

00:19:01.980 I get why they're on SSI.

00:19:03.480 It sounds like when you go in to get a job, they really, they're trying to shoehorn you into those things.

00:19:08.600 And, you know, I want to go back to a really interesting point you made that if someone was making a hire, because you are, you are providing a case study in what a job does for a human being.

00:19:19.600 When you describe what you would do with a job and how it would dramatically improve your life, right?

00:19:25.260 And so that is...

00:19:26.400 That's one thing is, like, people, you know, look at, like, what do you want out of life now that you're in this situation?

00:19:31.780 And again, I've only been homeless for two years.

00:19:34.200 I've generally had a fairly normal...

00:19:36.200 I wouldn't make it two nights.

00:19:37.280 No, I know.

00:19:38.320 But then people are like, well, what do you...

00:19:40.060 And I think, like, at this point, and just after two years, I'm thinking back to, you know, times in my life when I had a, quote, unquote, crappy job and a crappy apartment.

00:19:51.920 And I had a girlfriend and I would, you know, I'd go to my best friend's house every night and we'd drink a six pack.

00:19:57.520 And I thought I had it bad.

00:19:59.920 And I'm like, wait a minute.

00:20:01.540 I would kill to be in that...

00:20:03.120 Like, I would kill to just have a crappy job and just, like, wake up every, like, oh, I just got to go to work and just make money and come home. 0.94

00:20:09.960 Like, that's all I have to do?

00:20:11.200 That's all I have to worry about?

00:20:12.280 That sounds great.

00:20:13.660 Yeah.

00:20:13.900 And, but at the time, like, I never, until I was, and there have been times where I've had to, like, sleep on couches or in my car, but I've never been in, like, in this situation before.

00:20:23.480 Right.

00:20:23.720 And, you know, it wasn't until I got in this situation that I realized, like, all those times that I was, like, complaining or that I thought that things were not all that great.

00:20:33.240 And I was like, wow, I have a really boring life.

00:20:35.960 But at the same time, it's like, well, some, maybe boring isn't so bad sometimes.

00:20:40.920 You know, like, there are...

00:20:42.000 Do you think people are ungrateful?

00:20:44.080 Yeah.

00:20:44.600 I mean, not that I was, but I just didn't have the capacity.

00:20:47.980 I didn't even, it's not that I was ungrateful.

00:20:49.740 I just didn't even realize, like, the difference in, like, because, you know, you look at, like, oh, it must be bad to be homeless.

00:20:57.040 They don't, people don't realize it's not the sleeping on concrete.

00:20:59.940 It's not the having to panhandle.

00:21:01.980 None of that stuff.

00:21:02.800 That stuff is all manageable because it's, you can set a goal and you can just do it.

00:21:06.980 And the part about being homeless that people don't realize is so awful is that you're just not treated like a, quote, unquote, normal person.

00:21:15.140 There have been people I've met in the past two years who had things in common with me and should have been capable of, like, just becoming my friend.

00:21:24.740 So that I have, like, hey, that thing where, like, once a week, so I was like, hey, you want to come over and just drink a beer?

00:21:30.040 To have, even having that in my life again, like, just that sort of, like, basic humanity, that's the sort of thing that people don't realize when you're homeless, you don't have that.

00:21:39.260 The only people I ever interact with are other homeless people.

00:21:42.740 And very rarely, you know, like I've said, and I don't think it's just bad luck because I've met so many people.

00:21:51.100 It's just never, you know, I never meet other homeless people who have, like, this level of, you know, capability of, like, talking without going off on some bizarre, psychotic, you know, belief that they have.

00:22:07.580 No, I have.

00:22:08.320 I mean, there are some people who think my beliefs are psychotic.

00:22:11.060 Both, sure, sure.

00:22:11.980 I've talked to people who are homeless.

00:22:13.920 Like, every now and then, like, I'll meet a homeless person who, like, I'll talk to them for 30 minutes and I'll be like, oh, okay, they're, they get it.

00:22:21.460 They're, they're, all right, they're, they're pretty chill.

00:22:23.760 But then all of a sudden, like, something that is just so not real, well, they'll start talking about it.

00:22:30.840 And I'll just realize, I just, like, that's why they're homeless, you know, it's like, because there's that, there's, there's something.

00:22:37.260 And, and again, I, like, I know that, you know, as, as, as eccentric as I am on my, on my worst days, I'm not anywhere close to what these people are having to go through.

00:22:49.260 And I, I feel sorry for them, but at the same time, it's like, a lot, a lot of what people go through is self-inflicted. 0.79

00:22:57.180 And if you're, if you're deciding to have a loser's script, and if you're deciding the world is against you, if you're deciding that, you know, because as, as bad as my situation is, quote, unquote, bad, I never think, I never wake up and think, man, I hate being homeless, I want to die, this sucks.

00:23:15.640 You know, I wake up every day and I'm like, well, you know.

00:23:19.560 How do you spend your day?

00:23:20.180 Let's go get a, I'll, I'll, what people don't realize is that a lot of homelessness is just wandering from back and forth, because it takes so long to get from place to place, a lot of your day is just going back and forth from one place to the other.

00:23:32.660 You know, like, if I, if I have to go hang out at the library, because there's, you know, if I don't have money, I can't hang out in any other, like, restaurant type of place or coffee shop.

00:23:41.240 So, like, okay, like, walk to the library, that takes 30 minutes.

00:23:44.420 Then, oh, wait, I got to go use the bathroom at the CVS, because that takes 15 minutes.

00:23:49.240 It's got to wait 20 minutes for the bathroom. 1.00

00:23:51.160 And all these little increments of time add up so much, there are a lot of days where I don't get anything done.

00:23:57.080 And I'm like, where did all the time go?

00:23:58.700 And it's just all those little things that you don't realize are a problem.

00:24:02.480 The mundane things that just getting through them is actually what, what takes up your time.

00:24:08.260 Oh, yeah.

00:24:08.860 Well, what was the last eventful day that you had?

00:24:13.000 Um, trying to think.

00:24:15.440 Uh, like, you mean in a good way?

00:24:19.480 Yeah, well, in a good way, anyway.

00:24:21.860 It's, that's the thing, it's like, it's, unfortunately, I've settled into such a routine, I can't even think of, like, an eventful, like.

00:24:29.840 Well, what's the most scary?

00:24:30.820 During the hurricane.

00:24:31.580 Now, last year, when, remember that hurricane came through last year.

00:24:34.600 Yeah.

00:24:34.880 Um, one thing I thought was super amusing about that, like I said, I, I had a, at that time, I had just, like, just hit the streets after, like, two months.

00:24:44.680 So, it was just, like, my car goes, and then two months later.

00:24:47.680 And at that time, I, like, I, like I said, still had DoorDash and Uber accounts.

00:24:52.140 And when that hurricane hit, people were so terrified of leaving their hotels, I was able to make, like, $60 just walking some deliveries from, like, you know, to the beach and back.

00:25:02.160 Yeah.

00:25:02.700 Oh, wow.

00:25:03.940 So, that was a pretty good day, you know.

00:25:06.440 And that's, and that's what, it goes back to what I was saying earlier, is that there are so many little ways to make money that, you know, like, the biggest challenge for me is not, like, and I'm talking about honest ways.

00:25:17.700 Yeah.

00:25:18.000 There are a lot of homeless people who do dishonest things, but even, and then that's an option, but even, like, if you're talking about just honest ways, the biggest issue is not making a little bit of money, it's having some kind of purpose.

00:25:30.640 Having, like, like, well, what am I making money for?

00:25:34.000 Because there are a lot of times I think about, you know, like, oh, maybe I'll, like, I've got $2 and I'll play Powerball.

00:25:39.660 Like, what if I win?

00:25:40.680 What would I even do with it?

00:25:42.320 And at this point, I'm like, I don't know.

00:25:44.220 What would I even, what would I even spend this money on?

00:25:47.040 Because once you get disconnected from that, that every day, like, oh, this is what reality is, like, you just do this and this and this, and you, like, have that security, then you just, like, stop, stop wanting things in a sense.

00:26:01.180 Like, well, I guess I, I guess I'd get a car or a house, but.

00:26:05.060 What do you want?

00:26:06.060 What gets you excited or what do you look forward to?

00:26:10.320 I don't know.

00:26:11.180 Vish, what do you look forward to?

00:26:12.340 I look forward to waking up every morning and trying to make a difference, trying to either change the conversation or inject something or move the needle.

00:26:23.040 Vish has to be in the fight.

00:26:23.940 Vish, let me recast what he's actually saying.

00:26:26.220 What he's actually saying is Vish wakes up every day figuring out where he thinks he can deploy his talents to a fight that he cares about that matters.

00:26:33.240 Yes, basically.

00:26:34.020 Well, you know what, and if everyone in the world did that, because that's, that's what gets me down a lot about, about the state of the world is that there is so much that could be fixed if everyone just cared.

00:26:47.120 Yeah.

00:26:47.560 Because most people just don't care.

00:26:49.560 I don't know.

00:26:50.160 Why do you think that is?

00:26:51.620 It feels recent.

00:26:52.860 Well, I was going to say, if you're familiar with Adam Curtis, the documentary filmmaker, he's got a documentary called All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace.

00:27:01.320 And it traces how, you know, based on like things that started in the 50s and 60s, mostly in like Silicon Valley and the tech industry, how we've learned to base our society on these very simplistic systems and models of the world that we came up with before we really had like, we had simple computers, we had simple ideas, and we came up with these simple systems.

00:27:25.720 And we still believe in them, even though we have learned that they're not accurate anymore.

00:27:31.320 Like these models of the world that we thought like, or models of nature, we thought, oh, yeah, Mother Nature is a self-correcting system. 0.79

00:27:37.880 Turns out it's not.

00:27:38.980 Turns out it's just chaotic.

00:27:41.220 And, you know, and it's not like something that you can predict easily.

00:27:46.060 And, and a lot of that just came out of just like we had very simple computers, and we just started to believe that the world would operate the way they do, which is like, oh, it's very simple, like social media.

00:27:56.800 Very simple.

00:27:58.040 Engagement.

00:27:58.660 Click.

00:27:58.960 If something is clicked on, it has value.

00:28:01.320 No other, no other, you know, there's no other like, oh, is it a good idea?

00:28:05.680 Doesn't matter.

00:28:06.360 It was clicked on.

00:28:07.640 You know?

00:28:07.980 Totally.

00:28:08.360 And that's the sort of simple thing that we put our faith in.

00:28:10.800 It's like, maybe we should reevaluate that very core idea.

00:28:14.880 Maybe, maybe clicking on something isn't inherently valuable.

00:28:18.680 Maybe like that, maybe there should be a little more to the algorithm than just, than just simple engagement.

00:28:24.540 Yeah, I think that, that we've come to create value around that because there is an attention economy, right?

00:28:32.180 That's right, because it's so easy to make money off of it.

00:28:34.520 If you make a fraction of a penny off of everyone who watches a video, then there are so many people in the world that that's going to eventually be millions of dollars.

00:28:44.140 But do you want to make your life selling something that's only worth fractions of a penny?

00:28:49.800 You know, wouldn't, wouldn't you rather sell something like, wouldn't you rather have people give you $10 for like an album or like a book or something of value?

00:28:58.560 Well, you see what's what, how that's that, how that translates.

00:29:01.320 If you're having a conversation of value like this, isn't it like, shouldn't, like if you're, if you're having a conversation like this, isn't this inherently just a little bit more valuable than some random video that's just flashing on the, you know?

00:29:13.420 Well, you see how that's, that's essentially translated into the, the, the world and the market now, right?

00:29:18.740 You have people trying to accrue so many fractions of those pennies via views that they, right, but now they go and do crazy things to try and accrue those views, right?

00:29:31.320 And people do crazier and crazier and crazier things to get those views.

00:29:35.400 So it kind of is a, a feedback loop that's happening.

00:29:39.380 That's a big part of that documentary.

00:29:40.640 Right.

00:29:41.060 Yeah.

00:29:41.220 It's like the, the, the idea that feedback loops are not necessarily a good thing because they just make everything go crazy.

00:29:48.380 Right.

00:29:48.780 You know, they, they tune everything into overdrive because like it just keeps going back and forth and back and forth.

00:29:53.560 And just, yeah.

00:29:54.440 Politics is kind of that way too.

00:29:56.140 Right.

00:29:56.380 Media is that way.

00:29:57.320 Social media.

00:29:58.360 Swing that way.

00:29:58.880 And, and, and another thing I was thinking about when you asked me to be on here is that, that we are no longer interested in like thinking of democracy as a good idea unless the guy we like wins.

00:30:12.040 Right.

00:30:12.360 There are a lot of people who think, well, if, if, if, if, if, if, if the, if the, if 60% of the people vote a certain way and we have this going on, then, oh, well then they're just wrong.

00:30:25.040 And it's like, well, maybe it's not about right or wrong.

00:30:28.420 Maybe it's about, that's just how the very democracy has to work.

00:30:32.760 Right.

00:30:33.060 You have to, you have to go with what most people want.

00:30:36.140 And if it's bad, we'll figure that out.

00:30:38.600 And hopefully most people will be smart enough to say that's bad.

00:30:41.960 And there are examples of that having happened.

00:30:43.960 I mean, we make mistakes in policy.

00:30:45.720 We correct for those mistakes.

00:30:46.920 And we, we hope we learn my experience, Jackie, is that it's not that deliberative because of the corrupt influences.

00:30:55.540 You know, when I saw track of the amount of times in my life, like that I have thought, oh, politician, this is a great politician.

00:31:03.100 I love this politician.

00:31:04.380 10 years, five years later.

00:31:07.160 I don't know.

00:31:08.160 You know, and sometimes we learn more.

00:31:10.480 That corruption.

00:31:11.600 It's, it's just because why does anyone become a politician?

00:31:16.060 I don't know if it's usually for any good reason.

00:31:19.920 I think it's usually for, for, well, maybe not.

00:31:23.380 They become a politician for a good reason.

00:31:25.040 But then once the machinery gets rolling, you don't, you don't stay a politician for good reasons a lot of the time.

00:31:31.900 Right.

00:31:32.060 It's, it's inertia.

00:31:33.320 That's very, very wise.

00:31:34.700 You become part of this machinery.

00:31:36.460 Yes.

00:31:36.680 And you, and at that point, you no longer have your own ideas.

00:31:39.640 You're told this is the party line.

00:31:41.380 This is what you believe.

00:31:42.520 Go talk about it.

00:31:44.040 You know, and you never are, you're not going to be a politician.

00:31:46.040 You're no longer changing the world.

00:31:47.780 And in your image, you're just become, you know, part of this two-part, you know, this WWF.

00:31:52.940 Well, you're just an actor.

00:31:53.900 Yeah.

00:31:54.320 It's a WWE.

00:31:55.480 Yeah.

00:31:55.900 One side versus the other.

00:31:57.040 WWE.

00:31:57.640 Heels versus faces, you know. 0.95

00:32:00.300 This is, we talk about this a lot.

00:32:02.020 You know, I've said that since I was like 16.

00:32:04.300 Even when I was that young, it was apparent to me.

00:32:06.400 I was like, this whole thing is a scam.

00:32:09.440 The whole thing.

00:32:10.380 It's all just, they're, they're, they're, you know, the majority of what happens in politics

00:32:15.180 are not being, the majority of things are not done for any fundamental reason other than

00:32:21.800 distraction.

00:32:22.960 Other than, well, if this is what these people care about, let's talk about it and like,

00:32:27.060 let's, let's keep them busy. 0.99

00:32:28.280 And, and it's so very rarely is it based on like, let's fundamentally make the world a

00:32:33.240 better place.

00:32:34.060 Because like we're talking about entrenched systems, it, it, it stops being about improvement.

00:32:40.860 I mean, do you buy my thesis that it's just about staying in power and making money?

00:32:46.740 Mm-hmm.

00:32:47.280 Mm-hmm.

00:32:47.760 And we have tied, we have, we have, we've, we've gotten, we've, we're in a culture that

00:32:52.800 has tied money to power so intrinsically that is insane.

00:32:58.480 They're fungible.

00:32:59.660 Like, right.

00:33:00.520 They are the exact same thing at this point.

00:33:02.680 Like if you have a ton of money, you have all the power and there's a lot of money.

00:33:07.960 There's a lot of money out there.

00:33:09.160 So people with a lot of money win and lose every day.

00:33:11.880 Right.

00:33:12.680 And it's kind of like when you watch a football game, usually the team with the best players

00:33:17.580 wins.

00:33:18.140 But every once in a while, the team without the best players, but maybe had the right scheme,

00:33:22.480 had the right coach, had those stars aligned, they can get the upset.

00:33:27.240 Mm-hmm.

00:33:27.480 Politics is very similar in, in my observation that the side with the most money behind them

00:33:33.420 usually wins.

00:33:34.740 Yeah.

00:33:34.880 And so you've got to use strategy and trade craft to get around that for things that,

00:33:40.620 that, that really do matter.

00:33:42.120 Mm-hmm.

00:33:42.560 And a lot of times the, I mean, there are times the moneyed interests happen to want things

00:33:48.720 that are like also good for the country.

00:33:50.800 Sure.

00:33:51.360 Accidentally.

00:33:51.760 There, there are a ton of times and, and, you know, the cause I've, I've committed a

00:33:56.540 lot of my life to is stopping wars that only happen because of those moneyed interests.

00:34:02.160 Mm-hmm.

00:34:02.520 And I, I, we've lived through them during, you know, most of, of my life.

00:34:07.000 Right.

00:34:07.400 And, and I don't want to do that anymore.

00:34:08.860 And it's interesting that you at age 16 already had that keen assessment.

00:34:13.280 Well, I, you know, I, I, I was, I, I grew up a lot, um, I moved around a lot, but I was

00:34:20.040 lucky enough to grow up mostly in middle and high school in some very like, like nice schools

00:34:26.140 who actually cared about education.

00:34:28.320 And so, like, I mean, they had me reading 1984 when I was 11 years old.

00:34:33.680 Nice.

00:34:34.200 And, and, and, and, and, and animal farm.

00:34:36.840 Yeah.

00:34:36.980 And I, I honestly, I was kind of like, this is a little much guys.

00:34:40.040 It's like, kind of depressing.

00:34:42.140 Like, you really want to put this in me at this young age.

00:34:44.760 You were ready for it.

00:34:45.240 But at the same time, like having already like being like at that young age being told, yes,

00:34:51.220 look, history is written by the victors, you know, and it's, it's never about like once,

00:34:56.800 once one party gets into power, it stops being about improving the country and just becomes

00:35:01.760 about, it's just a job.

00:35:03.100 You just go and you clock in and clock out.

00:35:05.300 Are you a man of faith?

00:35:05.980 And look, I know that it's never been true that philosophers were ever politicians, right?

00:35:12.000 Like that's probably, that's probably something that's, that's crazy to hope for, but wouldn't

00:35:17.400 it be nice if the people who went into politics were literally the people who thought the most

00:35:23.140 about the most complex things in the world?

00:35:26.980 Yeah, but I know too many philosophers that like, well, practical figure out how to do the

00:35:32.520 dishes, right, who, you know, who couldn't fry a piece of chicken.

00:35:36.320 No, I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about a university.

00:35:38.540 Who's like the closest that we have in politics to like our, our philosopher king?

00:35:44.680 Steve Bannon.

00:35:45.760 There you go.

00:35:46.660 See, he loves Steve Bannon.

00:35:48.040 All right.

00:35:48.360 I wanted to ask you for this.

00:35:49.280 Are you a man of faith?

00:35:50.000 Do you pray?

00:35:50.940 I'm a Gnostic Christian.

00:35:52.180 Yeah.

00:35:53.080 How does that inform your daily life?

00:35:56.840 It's, I came through, I came to it in a really roundabout way.

00:36:00.820 When I, like you talk about when I was 16, until I was probably 19 or 20, I was an agnostic.

00:36:07.920 I was, I grew up thinking I was a Christian, but I didn't really care.

00:36:10.940 I grew up in a Baptist church and I was baptized and went to church and had a good experience.

00:36:15.600 So you accepted the Lord in a, in a Baptist church.

00:36:18.000 Right, right.

00:36:18.640 Well, I did that.

00:36:20.080 Yes.

00:36:20.380 And then I.

00:36:20.800 How old were you when you did that?

00:36:21.780 Uh, I, I got baptized when I was 11.

00:36:24.600 Okay.

00:36:25.240 That was like a choice I made.

00:36:26.540 Yeah.

00:36:27.100 And the thing, but the thing is, it didn't really do that much for me.

00:36:31.120 And I was like, why?

00:36:32.520 And then I went through a period of being an agnostic.

00:36:35.040 And then I sort of came back around to being a, a Gnostic, not agnostic, Gnostic Christian

00:36:40.640 through like some people I had read and some, you know, getting into some, uh, like more

00:36:46.080 of the older, like religious texts, like the, you know, the original, like the gospel of Matthew.

00:36:52.560 The, the, the, the, not just the Bible, but all the texts from that time period.

00:36:57.220 And I got really interested in like philosophy.

00:37:00.100 And then I came back into like, oh, the, this, this basic idea that Jesus came up with is

00:37:06.440 like, let's just be good to each other.

00:37:07.920 That has merit that has like, not that doesn't, that doesn't just have merit.

00:37:11.840 That's like such a big idea that most people aren't even like ready for it.

00:37:16.560 Most people don't really live their life because think about it.

00:37:20.200 If everyone in the world really lived like in this pure way that, and I know it's unreasonable

00:37:27.220 to say everyone, but let's say 90, 90%.

00:37:29.720 If 90% of the people, if every time they saw like something bad, like some horrible injustice

00:37:35.840 that they were like going to figure out how to fix it and not in a performative way, just

00:37:40.320 like, we got to fix that.

00:37:41.980 If everyone just was concerned, you know, if everyone was like, we have to fix all this

00:37:46.980 stuff.

00:37:47.500 And when I say injustice, I don't mean, again, I'm not talking about performative stuff.

00:37:51.120 I'm not talking about, you know, like whatever, like trendy topic you want, you know, like

00:37:56.740 I'm not talking about, I'm talking about fundamental things.

00:37:58.420 Like it's an injustice to have someone like me who is very willing to work and capable

00:38:04.300 of working, sleeping on the street when there's like furniture that is being housed, you know,

00:38:10.000 and he's not being housed.

00:38:11.220 And I don't mean that's an injustice in like in a righteous way.

00:38:13.920 And I don't, I'm certainly not a proud full person, but at the end of the day, it's like,

00:38:19.640 would it hurt society that much to, to help, to like help some people like me out who can

00:38:25.180 give back, you know, cause you look at the homeless problem.

00:38:28.240 It's huge.

00:38:29.100 Let's at least start with this, like this 5% who are like me, who can get back in the

00:38:34.220 workforce, who can start giving back, who can start being a boon to society again, instead

00:38:40.480 of being a drain on it.

00:38:41.680 Give me a, like, I don't have a reason to live right now.

00:38:44.780 I'm not really that tore up about it, but I don't know if you asked me what I have to

00:38:48.600 look forward to.

00:38:49.240 And I'm like, huh, I don't have anything to look forward to.

00:38:52.460 And like, not in a terrible way.

00:38:53.700 I'm just like, oh, that's weird.

00:38:54.720 I don't have anything to look forward to.

00:38:55.200 Well, even, you know, I mean, I mean, look, different people, no, no, no, no, please.

00:39:00.720 It's incredibly interesting.

00:39:02.240 And, and when I talk about having something to look forward to, please don't take that

00:39:06.360 as me imposing, like.

00:39:07.380 Oh, no, it was a good question.

00:39:08.260 You know, something that was just like, so people don't really ask me that.

00:39:11.980 I'm like, huh, that's interesting to think about.

00:39:14.320 Yeah.

00:39:14.540 But I remember even in some of my toughest days on the planet Earth, like looking forward

00:39:19.180 to a nice walk, looking forward to a good day of weather.

00:39:23.640 That's what you do.

00:39:24.340 That's, that's what you learn.

00:39:25.300 A moment of kindness.

00:39:26.140 Yeah, I like, I think my situation gets narrowed down to such a, such a point where I truly

00:39:32.960 am not thinking because I used to, like I said, when I had like an apartment and a job

00:39:37.640 and like formerly in my life, there would be times where I would stress out and I'd be

00:39:41.660 like, man, if I get fired, I might not have a place.

00:39:45.420 I might not have rent next week.

00:39:47.020 And I'd be so stressed about that.

00:39:49.140 And now, even though I'm in a quote unquote, worse position, I'm in a way I'm less stressed

00:39:54.380 out because I'm just thinking about, well, what's going on today?

00:39:57.720 Let's see.

00:39:58.080 I've got, I've got money.

00:39:59.380 I've got food today.

00:40:00.560 I don't have to worry about that today.

00:40:02.640 So let's just worry about today.

00:40:04.480 And you kind of narrow your focus down like that.

00:40:07.440 And I think it's like, you know, when you say like, I'm not looking forward to anything,

00:40:11.160 it's not in a bad way.

00:40:12.160 It's just like, you just stop looking forward, I think.

00:40:15.080 I think a lot of people who go through trauma are really going to relate to that description.

00:40:21.160 Because when you're going through any kind of trauma, it just becomes about that central

00:40:26.280 moment of focus.

00:40:27.440 Yeah.

00:40:27.640 Like when I had a really bad breakup when I was like 23, love of my life, we were together

00:40:34.120 six years, leaves out of nowhere.

00:40:36.280 And it was like such, it was one of those experiences where for weeks afterwards, all I

00:40:42.080 could do was at the time I was a pizza delivery guy.

00:40:45.140 So all I could do was drive around delivering pizza, crying my eyes, you know, just like

00:40:51.480 silently weeping, like stoically, just like, you know, just like I am going through the

00:40:56.280 toughest thing I will ever go through, you know, just because of one breakup.

00:41:00.200 And that's the kind of thing you, you know, when you're younger, you can think of like

00:41:04.000 one thing can be such a horrible, but once you, you know, you got 20, 30 years on, you

00:41:08.580 realize it's, you're going to have a lot of those experiences.

00:41:12.000 And if you don't get used to it, if you don't get tough quick, you know, you've heard me

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00:42:24.740 What's the most scared you've been over the last two years?

00:42:27.000 I've been lucky in that I haven't been very scared, but I will say, I think that's just

00:42:37.700 down to my own choices because like, I don't go downtown, for example, you know, there are

00:42:43.140 some scary spots.

00:42:44.120 I just don't, you know, as, and I don't have a reason to, I don't do meth.

00:42:48.160 So I don't have to, you know.

00:42:50.080 Are, are most of those folks there on, on meth?

00:42:52.860 Most, you know, the vast, vast majority of homeless people are either on meth or are,

00:43:00.100 are drunks or on fentanyl.

00:43:02.500 And when I say vast, I mean, in two years, I have not met one other homeless person who

00:43:10.580 was like me, who didn't do that, who just like, I met one guy who I thought like, cause

00:43:17.000 I, you know, I, I used to drink, I don't even enjoy drinking anymore.

00:43:19.860 I didn't quit drinking.

00:43:20.900 I just, I just don't like it, which trust me, I used to think that was impossible.

00:43:24.700 I used to be like, I'll never get tired of this, you know, but I somehow, I just don't

00:43:28.920 like it anymore.

00:43:29.440 Um, but I met another homeless guy who's like, he also played guitar.

00:43:33.120 He actually gave me this guitar and, um, you know, I hung out with him for several months

00:43:37.940 and then only when he left town did I find out that he had been like on meth a lot of

00:43:42.860 that time.

00:43:43.300 And it was like, oh, that explains a lot of certain things where I thought he was just,

00:43:47.080 you know, being eccentric, but no.

00:43:50.920 That's, that's unfortunate because it would be hard to find, like you have, uh, laid out a

00:43:56.220 policy prescription to find others who fit your conditions and to have the, the type

00:44:02.860 of tailored programming that we would have for someone who had a disability, was on drugs,

00:44:08.820 you know, had some ailment.

00:44:10.060 Right.

00:44:10.320 So it's so weird to me that it's so much easier.

00:44:12.680 I've met so many people who, who say, oh yeah, I got a, they gave me a place.

00:44:17.580 It's a halfway house, you know, cause I'm in a program and do you try to go to that?

00:44:23.100 And it's like, I know, like, don't get me wrong.

00:44:26.580 People who are in that position certainly may, maybe need more help than me in a certain

00:44:31.100 sense.

00:44:32.240 But in, in a sense, the, the fact that I don't need much help is why I'm saying maybe you

00:44:37.380 should help me not first, not like prioritize, but like maybe if it's easy to help someone,

00:44:42.340 maybe help it, you know, because like I said, you turn around and you're like, I don't

00:44:47.040 know, it just drives me nuts.

00:44:48.160 It just, what do you, I mean, well, I guess you said, since you don't go downtown, there

00:44:52.640 haven't been in the suburbs where, where you spend your time, there aren't, there aren't

00:44:56.920 moments that give you fear.

00:44:59.120 Every now and then I'll, I'll encounter like, here's something that this has happened a couple

00:45:04.120 of times now.

00:45:06.360 The other morning I got woke up, I was where I sleep.

00:45:09.340 I got woke up by this girl who looked fairly normal, look about mid twenties, dressed pretty 0.88

00:45:16.000 normal, like, you know, like had makeup and totally looked like just a normal person walking

00:45:20.740 around.

00:45:21.620 And she started talking to me about, um, she was like, oh, I know someone who can help

00:45:27.220 you get a job, come with me and I'll help you.

00:45:29.500 You know, and it, and she had like sort of a strange Middle Eastern accent or not Middle

00:45:33.560 East, uh, Eastern, like Russian accent.

00:45:35.560 And it just became this very strange situation.

00:45:39.940 And I began to think is like, like, are there actually like people who are, you know, I don't

00:45:48.200 know, I don't know if it was like a trafficking situation, but it was like, it just struck

00:45:51.680 me as very strange.

00:45:52.400 Like, this is not someone who is just like eccentric.

00:45:55.580 She's not just crazy.

00:45:57.240 She's like, she's like being very insistent about certain things.

00:46:00.780 She's like, oh, I know I can help you get a job.

00:46:02.560 Come with me.

00:46:03.100 I'll be right back.

00:46:04.080 I'll be, you know, come with me to get a coffee.

00:46:06.600 And, you know, and then there've been other times where I've met people like that.

00:46:10.860 And I'm wondering if it's just, is it just, you know, people, because there's an airport

00:46:15.420 nearby and it's like, oh, okay.

00:46:16.960 You know, someone from another country who happens to be mentally unwell winds up on the 0.99

00:46:23.040 street here because of the airport proximity.

00:46:25.300 Or is there something a little bit stranger going on?

00:46:28.360 You know, that because I'm glad you didn't find out.

00:46:31.120 You don't want to wake up in a, you know, hotel bed with a, in a, in a, in a bath of 0.99

00:46:36.340 ice with no kidney or something like that.

00:46:37.640 Yeah, because as, as, as, as strange as like weird as that sort of thing sounds, like those

00:46:42.120 things are not just urban, like that does happen every once in a while.

00:46:46.560 And if you're going to pick off anybody, I would expect it to be homeless people. 1.00

00:46:51.220 Right.

00:46:51.580 Especially when, as you were saying, you kind of are treated in this like outcast or.

00:46:57.220 Hands off way.

00:46:57.960 Yeah.

00:46:58.500 And for someone to be so.

00:47:00.340 And like I said, she was dressed, like she, like she, she had a dirty backpack, but she 1.00

00:47:05.800 was dressed very nice otherwise and had like nice nails and like makeup and like, and this

00:47:11.220 was at 6am.

00:47:12.620 Very strange situation.

00:47:14.140 Yeah.

00:47:14.380 Um, do, uh, do you have social media?

00:47:17.020 Are there places that you, you put out your music or other stuff you do?

00:47:21.380 I do have an album on Spotify.

00:47:23.460 Tell us about it.

00:47:24.160 I put it out, um, right before I came out in 2019, I guess, right before I moved and

00:47:29.700 went on my road trip.

00:47:30.600 Sure, sure.

00:47:31.200 What's it called?

00:47:31.820 Uh, the, the name of the band or the project is Airport or Telephone.

00:47:36.820 And the album is Prepare to Be No One.

00:47:39.380 It's still up there on Spotify.

00:47:41.120 So.

00:47:41.520 Great.

00:47:41.940 How about other forms of social media?

00:47:43.760 Um, I'm, I'm trying to, um, I, I have a decent phone, so there's really no excuse for

00:47:48.780 me to not like start making videos of like just.

00:47:51.740 Vish is going to help you get it set up with an X account, with an Instagram.

00:47:55.900 No, really?

00:47:56.300 Whatever you need.

00:47:56.940 I appreciate it.

00:47:57.260 Yeah.

00:47:57.460 We'll happily help you.

00:47:58.440 We'll happily help you.

00:47:58.920 Because I have, like, I have an old YouTube account, but I don't want to really like,

00:48:02.200 don't bother using it.

00:48:03.240 Well, what's going to happen is tens of thousands of people are going to see this discussion

00:48:06.880 and it's going to, it's going to shock them and they're going to want to know more about

00:48:12.160 your story.

00:48:12.960 I hope, I, I would think that a lot of people are going to be shocked by like, oh, he seems

00:48:16.640 normal.

00:48:17.100 And it's like, cause so many people that I talk to are like, you really don't seem like

00:48:21.560 your home.

00:48:21.920 Well, and no one really comes to this audience looking for normal.

00:48:25.900 Uh, if people are following me and Vish, uh, it's normal will definitely be a shocking 0.92

00:48:32.120 thing.

00:48:32.660 I do want to, I have to know what's your best, what's your best performing song when

00:48:36.800 you're, when you're playing, what's the one, you know, that it's the most likely to get

00:48:40.940 a positive reaction from someone?

00:48:42.880 Uh, uh, blister in the sun.

00:48:45.100 Oh.

00:48:45.520 I love them song.

00:48:46.420 Yeah.

00:48:46.720 Can we, can we get a few, can we get a few bars?

00:48:48.780 I'll make the whole thing.

00:48:49.720 Can we get a little blister in the sun?

00:48:51.160 I can do the intro.

00:48:52.160 All right.

00:48:52.480 All right.

00:48:52.860 We'll take that.

00:48:53.520 We'll take that.

00:48:55.700 Let me get the.

00:49:00.520 Oh yeah.

00:49:01.080 I'll just get my pick here.

00:49:02.020 Yeah, there we go.

00:49:03.000 All right.

00:49:04.360 Yeah, it is out of tune, but, uh, but I mean, if you, if you know, if you want to ever make

00:49:08.320 money in a bar, you don't really have to learn much.

00:49:10.300 It's like two chords and you just play, play any kind of old 80s song you can, you know?

00:49:15.120 Nice.

00:49:19.940 That's great.

00:49:20.420 Thanks, Jackie.

00:49:21.420 Uh, Vish, did you have any other questions for Jackie?

00:49:23.400 Well, actually, I think I might've stumbled into a SoundCloud account that you had or.

00:49:29.260 Oh, I did put, yeah.

00:49:30.480 There's one song on a, on a SoundCloud under my name.

00:49:33.160 Yeah.

00:49:33.400 Cause I was, I was working on the followup to that album and there, there is one song up

00:49:37.540 on there.

00:49:37.960 Yeah.

00:49:38.320 Okay.

00:49:38.780 Yeah.

00:49:39.060 That's what I was, I was, I was trying to.

00:49:41.320 Yeah.

00:49:41.520 Okay.

00:49:41.840 That's to our directors.

00:49:43.080 We're going to get all the information for, uh, for Jackie's music under both of those

00:49:47.660 different projects, uh, in when we, when we publish this, we absolutely have to put it

00:49:52.240 in the lower thirds and give people that direction.

00:49:54.860 Absolutely.

00:49:55.300 And yeah, I just want to say, man, uh, that, you know, to your point that, that there is

00:49:59.980 something that you can do to, you know, make money, even if you're homeless, I'm from

00:50:04.060 New York city and the homeless grew up in Jersey.

00:50:06.820 So you were telling that story earlier and I was like, yeah, I know exactly like, you know,

00:50:11.060 like growing up in, in the suburbs of Jersey, it's like, yeah, there was like one or two

00:50:16.060 local guys.

00:50:18.220 Like, yeah, it's almost like a, like a, like a protector of the neighborhood.

00:50:22.640 Yeah.

00:50:22.880 Oh yeah.

00:50:23.420 He says, that's him.

00:50:24.540 Yeah.

00:50:24.940 But the thing in, in Manhattan, um, when the, the homeless there, a lot of them will do some

00:50:31.440 kind of entertainment.

00:50:32.320 They'll sing, they'll dance.

00:50:34.420 They are hustling out there, right?

00:50:36.760 That's a lot of that California vibe.

00:50:38.200 I think it's just, it's just people are just not that stressed about it.

00:50:41.500 And I'm just like, if you can make money, just do it.

00:50:44.520 Like, like I said, I read tarot cards, I play music, you know, anything that can make you

00:50:48.220 a few dollars that's like value, giving value to the world.

00:50:52.500 Like, why not?

00:50:54.160 You know?

00:50:54.520 Yeah.

00:50:54.780 So I just wanted to say like, that's, it's very admirable that you, you even noticed that

00:50:59.620 there's that kind of separating factor.

00:51:02.240 And, and, uh, you know, I happen to have noticed it too.

00:51:05.180 And, you know, and, and I'm, I'm glad that you have some kind of talent keeping you, keeping

00:51:09.420 you going, man.

00:51:10.360 Yeah.

00:51:10.500 Right on.

00:51:11.240 Got anybody looking out for you, Jackie?

00:51:12.680 Anybody who you could, family you check in on?

00:51:15.620 My family, like my dad's side of the family, they're not, you know, a lot of, a lot of times

00:51:20.720 homeless people are like, they're the black sheep. 1.00

00:51:23.000 In my case, my family is like all black sheeps. 0.95

00:51:25.600 They're like people I would not really want to, a lot of, a lot of, uh, a lot of, um, 0.54

00:51:31.580 drug use and just not good stuff on my dad's side of the family.

00:51:34.800 But my grandmother's still around.

00:51:36.360 I still talk to her.

00:51:37.100 She's great.

00:51:37.660 She's always been there for me.

00:51:39.240 Um, basically raised me with my grandfather.

00:51:41.740 Um, so man, like I said, my mom's still up in Cloverdale.

00:51:45.940 She's, she's got cancer, but totally remission.

00:51:47.940 So she's hanging in there.

00:51:49.800 You keep up with her?

00:51:50.900 Yeah.

00:51:51.820 Always good to keep up with your mother.

00:51:54.060 Always good to check.

00:51:54.740 My little sister's up there too, you know?

00:51:56.780 Well, good.

00:51:57.260 Well, we can't thank you enough for coming by and sharing your perspective on a variety

00:52:00.860 of issues.

00:52:01.440 You're obviously a very caring person and you're obviously a very smart person and thoughtful.

00:52:06.920 And it's just nice to have a pleasant conversation with a fellow human who has had totally different

00:52:13.160 life experiences, but I think there's something collective about our humanity.

00:52:16.860 And I think you've shined a light on it in, in a really, uh, interesting and thorough way.

00:52:22.360 And I think that's what a lot of people don't realize is that for, for a homeless person

00:52:26.160 like me, like the, the, the, those of us who are rare, but who can have like have a conversation,

00:52:31.220 that's what, that's what I miss the most is just talking to people.

00:52:35.440 Like if I had, if I, if I had like people to talk to once or twice a week, you know, that

00:52:42.100 would do so much to settle my mind about my situation.

00:52:47.040 Well, we hope you've enjoyed talking to us.

00:52:49.020 Some people do sometimes and not everyone does, but, uh, but we would like to continue to check

00:52:54.080 back in with you and see how things are going.

00:52:56.000 And, you know, as, as a lot of these policy, uh, questions are, uh, are addressed regarding

00:53:02.800 how to help people really get a chance to get really into politics, you know?

00:53:06.580 Yeah.

00:53:06.900 I would have liked to have.

00:53:07.860 Yeah.

00:53:08.200 I mean, we were kind of more interested in, uh, just, uh, the nature of humanity on, on

00:53:13.920 this.

00:53:14.260 We weren't going to quiz you on the, uh, like I was kind of like preparing myself.

00:53:18.740 Yeah.

00:53:19.000 I wasn't like, all right, Jackie, I'm going to need to know exactly how you break down the

00:53:22.760 ditty verdict.

00:53:23.360 I, I, I really just cared more about your story and that's probably way more interesting

00:53:28.480 than the news of the day to people.

00:53:30.400 But, but as those things do arise and as those opportunities, um, you know, come to us, we'd

00:53:36.160 really like the chance to check back in with you.

00:53:37.800 And, uh, we, uh, we're going to work to get you on social media.

00:53:41.880 Uh, it was your idea to have more content creation among, among your community.

00:53:47.080 And so Vish is going to help get you on social media.

00:53:49.140 We're going to put your social media on and you're going to get a whole lot of new followers

00:53:52.580 who'll be interesting, uh, interested in the things you have to say and want to communicate

00:53:55.880 with you.

00:53:56.420 Thanks for being on.

00:53:57.400 All right.

00:53:57.860 All right.

00:53:58.460 That's it.

00:53:59.120 That's a wrap, man.

00:54:00.160 Want to see more great videos like this?

00:54:02.180 Click on the link below to subscribe to OAN Live and watch Dan Ball's Real America and

00:54:06.720 the Matt Gaetz Show on Dish Channel 212.

00:54:09.560 Tune in, subscribe, and watch today.

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The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - July 03, 2025

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ The Best Homeless Man in California

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