The Art of Manliness - #124： Self-Discipline & Personal Effectiveness With Rory Vaden

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:19.520 We all know that self-discipline is a necessary trait if we want to achieve our goals and

00:00:24.400 be successful.

00:00:25.380 But what can you do?

00:00:26.380 What are some tactics that you can do to actually instill self-discipline within yourself?

00:00:31.440 And besides that, besides the self-discipline part, there's another aspect to being successful

00:00:35.760 and achieving our goals that we have for ourselves.

00:00:37.420 It's managing our time in an effective manner so that we get the most out of it.

00:00:41.600 And the problem is, in our modern world, we have so many things vying for our attention.

00:00:45.160 First, we have the internet on our smartphones, on our desktops that are just, there's so

00:00:49.540 many things there that can just distract us from work, from our family.

00:00:52.500 But then you have work, then you have family, then you have commitments to church or maybe

00:00:56.820 a community organization that are all competing for your attention and for your time.

00:01:02.300 How do we manage all these things in a way that we get the most bang for our buck and

00:01:06.780 actually helps us lead a life of significance?

00:01:09.980 Well, our guest today has written two books on these topics.

00:01:12.460 They're really fantastic.

00:01:13.180 His name is Rory Vaden, and he's the author of Take the Stairs, and the other one is Procrastinated

00:01:18.360 on Purpose.

00:01:19.700 Rory started out his career as a salesman, and now he is a consultant and coach for salesmen

00:01:25.060 and as well as organizations that are sales-focused.

00:01:28.120 His job is to help people be more effective salespeople.

00:01:30.960 Anyways, the principles that he teaches to his clients are applicable to any person who is

00:01:35.560 trying to do the best they can in this life.

00:01:38.600 That's why I wanted to have him on the show.

00:01:39.860 So, anyways, today on the podcast, Rory and I discussed self-discipline, having this sort

00:01:44.740 of take-the-stairs mentality towards life.

00:01:46.740 We're not going to take the escalator, and then we're going to talk about how we can procrastinate

00:01:50.300 on purpose and what that means to better manage our time.

00:01:53.760 So, I think you're really going to like this podcast.

00:01:55.040 A lot of great practical takeaways that you can use right away after you're done listening.

00:01:59.240 So, without further ado, let's talk to Mr. Rory Vaden.

00:02:09.860 Rory Vaden, welcome to the show.

00:02:13.480 Thanks, Brett.

00:02:14.020 It's good to be here.

00:02:14.920 All right.

00:02:15.200 So, you're a business consultant, successful salesman, and you've also written books about

00:02:21.680 productivity, motivation, how to just live a more full life.

00:02:26.220 And your first book, I love the title of it because it really encapsulates sort of the

00:02:31.060 philosophy that I take towards life.

00:02:32.520 It's called Take the Stairs, and it's about self-discipline.

00:02:37.780 And you make the common sense argument that if you want to be successful in life, you

00:02:44.240 just have to keep doing the things that will bring you success, even if you don't feel like

00:02:49.720 it.

00:02:50.680 And I think most people, they get this, they know that on an intellectual level, but we

00:02:57.200 have such a hard time putting it into practice.

00:02:59.200 Why is that?

00:03:01.000 Well, you know, there's lots of reasons why, but one reason is actually rooted in neuroscience.

00:03:06.900 You know, our brain, we, you know, the dopamine drug that is inside of our brain, we get these

00:03:14.560 little hits of dopamine whenever we do something in the short term, right?

00:03:19.600 Like, it feels good.

00:03:21.680 And so, what feels good in the short term is something that we are kind of drawn to biologically.

00:03:29.160 But the thing is, our biology was never prepared, never prepared us for success, it prepared

00:03:35.280 us for survival.

00:03:36.900 And so, when you understand that, it's like breaking free of that and working the brain

00:03:44.060 is kind of divided into these three parts.

00:03:46.220 But the front part of your brain, the frontal lobes is kind of referred to as the human brain.

00:03:51.600 That's kind of the one for logic and thinking and rationale, and that is the one that has

00:03:57.280 to be consciously developed.

00:03:59.100 And like the paradox principle in Take the Stairs is easy short-term choices lead to difficult

00:04:06.560 long-term consequences.

00:04:08.500 Meanwhile, difficult short-term choices lead to easy long-term consequences.

00:04:13.400 So, it's this great paradox that only a few people understand, but ultra-performers have

00:04:20.620 realized that procrastination and indulgence are like these creditors that charge us interest.

00:04:26.560 They make us feel good now, it's easy in the short term, but it's what creates the more

00:04:30.800 difficult life.

00:04:31.540 So, contrary to what people think, Take the Stairs is not about making life as hard as possible,

00:04:36.180 it's the exact opposite.

00:04:37.700 It's about making life as easy as possible, but it's based on sort of the unpopular premise

00:04:42.760 that creating the easy life comes from doing the hardest parts of things as soon as possible.

00:04:50.360 So, it requires you to play the long game.

00:04:54.620 Exactly.

00:04:55.440 Why is that?

00:04:55.880 I mean, that's hard to do, though.

00:04:56.980 I mean, there's been all these studies that people know they need to save for retirement,

00:05:01.400 right?

00:05:01.620 Because retirement's going to come, but then they don't save.

00:05:04.760 Is it just because the future is so amorphous and not concrete that it makes it hard to play

00:05:13.100 the long game?

00:05:14.480 I absolutely think so.

00:05:16.500 I think a lot of times when people come to us and they say, hey, I really struggle with

00:05:22.440 self-discipline in this area or that area, what we almost always find is it's not that

00:05:27.240 they struggle as much from a lack of discipline as they do from a lack of vision.

00:05:33.880 The amount of our endurance is directly proportionate to the clarity of our vision.

00:05:39.180 So, if we have a crystal clear picture of what we want in the long run, then that creates

00:05:45.000 a naturally strong connection to how the sacrifices we're asking ourselves to make today forward

00:05:51.900 us towards a future that we care about, which thereby creates this context for action to

00:05:57.380 take place, and our discipline engages almost automatically.

00:06:01.020 But if we don't have that clear vision, or if we don't spend much time thinking about it, 0.93

00:06:06.000 which most people don't, most people suck at vision.

00:06:09.420 And we were taught as kids not to be dreamers, like get your head out of the clouds and think

00:06:15.760 realistic and focus on what's in front of you.

00:06:17.920 And yet, the most successful people in the world, at least in the business realm and in

00:06:23.840 the athletic realm and really, I mean, the entertainment realm too, they have such a clear

00:06:27.980 vision and they spend so much time thinking about it. 0.86

00:06:31.360 They see it so vividly in their mind that it's like the vision pulls them through all the crap 0.77

00:06:37.700 they got to go to to get there.

00:06:39.040 Whereas, absent that long-term vision, you're simply governed by your emotional impulses of what

00:06:45.380 feels good right now because you're biologically, like you're set up that way.

00:06:51.100 Gotcha.

00:06:51.340 So, I mean, yeah, there's that verse in the Bible, I think it's Proverbs, right?

00:06:54.960 Where there's no vision, the people perish.

00:06:56.700 Mm-hmm.

00:06:57.300 Yeah.

00:06:58.180 So, how do you make that?

00:06:59.160 I mean, how do you create that vision?

00:07:00.120 Is it just a matter of sitting down, journaling, writing, thinking about it, talking about it

00:07:05.220 with a mastermind group or your friends or your wife?

00:07:08.460 And what do you, how do you fashion that vision?

00:07:10.420 Well, you know, we recently did like a little blog mini-series on these seven realizations

00:07:16.920 of rich people.

00:07:18.520 And one of the most common characteristics that we found with wealthy people is that they

00:07:24.360 fall asleep every night thinking in very vivid detail about what they want in the future.

00:07:31.640 And that is something that I started doing a couple years ago, and it's made a huge difference

00:07:36.680 because the more you can see it, the more likely you are to work towards it.

00:07:43.320 Now, some people call it the law of attraction as kind of this cosmic force, and, you know,

00:07:47.720 maybe part of it is that, but I kind of tend to believe it's less of that, and it's more

00:07:52.180 just about you're creating this context by which making sacrifices make sense, and you

00:07:57.060 start paying, you're paying attention and you're open-minded to things that you would

00:08:02.500 not have been open-minded to in the absence of that vision.

00:08:05.620 But from a tactical standpoint, a little technique that we do, and we take all our coaching clients

00:08:12.720 through this.

00:08:13.540 So we do sales coaching.

00:08:14.760 That's really our core business, so we work a lot with salespeople.

00:08:17.920 But we have them go through this exercise called VAST, V-A-S-T.

00:08:23.360 And one of the things, again, coming down to neuroscience is understanding that the brain thinks in pictures,

00:08:30.600 and things that are more vividly experienced in our mind are more likely to become true in reality.

00:08:36.440 So when I say ice cream cone, most people see an image of an ice cream cone.

00:08:43.240 They don't see the letters I-C-E-C-R-E-A-M.

00:08:47.000 Well, when we think of vision, a lot of us talk about vision abstract, and companies are some of the worst at this.

00:08:52.400 You say, our vision is to be the best in the world at whatever.

00:08:54.740 Well, that's kind of a crappy vision from an inspiring perspective, from a motivational perspective,

00:09:00.280 because what is more motivating is a picture, is to say, imagine a picture of our company headquarters

00:09:08.880 inside of whatever, Forbes magazine, being written up for the most enriching customer experience

00:09:17.500 of all companies in the world.

00:09:19.300 And there's cases, features on us, and everywhere you go, people recognize the logo on your business card,

00:09:25.220 and they ask you about it.

00:09:26.800 That becomes more alive.

00:09:28.960 So V-A-S-T, the V stands for visual, the A stands for auditory, the S stands for smell,

00:09:38.000 and the T stands for touch.

00:09:42.760 So when you think of your vision, don't think of it in some obscure term,

00:09:46.920 like, I want to do this amazing thing, think about in your mind, what can you see,

00:09:54.200 what can you hear in that moment that it came true, what can you smell, and what can you touch?

00:10:00.340 And when you think that vivid, that in as much vivid detail,

00:10:04.940 your mind really can't differentiate between what is real and what is not real.

00:10:11.160 I mean, it's why nightmares wake us up, because they feel so real,

00:10:14.920 because your mind doesn't really dictate, and you have these emotional responses based on it.

00:10:20.320 So that's a couple ideas about how to do it.

00:10:23.580 And I think it really is important to get that basic, because most of us just don't do it.

00:10:27.840 But the bigger thing is, be willing to do it, and spend time thinking about it.

00:10:31.340 Awesome. So we've talked sort of like big picture, playing the long game,

00:10:35.660 but we have to deal with the day-to-day.

00:10:38.460 And I know what gets a lot of people down is they know what the stuff they need to do to be successful,

00:10:43.840 but it just feels like a grind.

00:10:46.280 And it's just like, they don't want to do it.

00:10:48.480 They can't get up. It's another Monday.

00:10:50.980 They have to do these reports.

00:10:52.680 They have to make the call.

00:10:54.340 They have to, whatever it is.

00:10:55.600 How do you, you make the case that you should fall in love with the daily grind.

00:11:01.960 How can you do that?

00:11:03.580 You feel like your job, it's mind-numbing.

00:11:07.900 Yeah. So this is, that's actually something that one of our very first coaching clients,

00:11:12.140 his name is Chad Goldwasser, and he was the number one Keller Williams real estate agent

00:11:17.360 in the world out of like 76,000.

00:11:20.400 They have many more agents than that now even.

00:11:22.340 And he said that that was one of his philosophies, was falling in love with the daily grind.

00:11:27.540 But it ties in well to one of our principles that we embrace at Southwestern,

00:11:32.940 which is a lot of times people, let's say they retake the stairs and they come up and they say,

00:11:38.080 okay, Rory, so let's say I start doing all the things you're talking about, right?

00:11:41.880 Like, let's say I do start taking the stairs and metaphorically speaking,

00:11:45.540 I'm doing the things I know I should be doing.

00:11:47.640 I'm doing the things that are making the sacrifices.

00:11:50.260 I'm paying the price and how long do I have to do that for?

00:11:54.680 And the truth is that we never get to stop doing them.

00:11:57.880 We never do.

00:11:59.820 Now, that doesn't mean life is going to be miserable.

00:12:02.220 It doesn't mean that life is going to be one great big giant trip to the gym or that

00:12:05.340 you're only going to eat foliage for the rest of your life.

00:12:08.500 But it does mean learning to embrace this concept that we call the rent axiom.

00:12:14.900 And the rent axiom says that success is never owned.

00:12:20.300 Success is only rented.

00:12:23.400 And the rent is due every day.

00:12:27.600 Success is never owned.

00:12:29.280 Success is rented.

00:12:30.280 And the rent is due every day.

00:12:32.420 And at first, sometimes that strikes people as bad news because it's like, oh, no.

00:12:36.720 But it's really the most empowering truth of all of the take the stairs principles because

00:12:42.620 when you embrace this idea that I'm not going on a diet, I'm not going on a 90-day workout

00:12:49.540 program, you embrace the idea that these changes and these choices that I'm making in my life

00:12:54.740 are not temporary ones but permanent ones.

00:12:57.680 Then what happens is you stop wasting time looking for the shortcut.

00:13:02.580 You stop believing in this fantasy land that you're going to somehow win the lottery or

00:13:07.140 discover a magic pill or come up with some business idea that just goes viral.

00:13:11.980 And you let go of all that junk and you just get focused on doing the things that you know

00:13:16.860 you should be doing.

00:13:18.700 And what happens, again, it's such a crazy paradox because it seems like this take the stairs,

00:13:25.060 all of this stuff we're talking about seems like it would be so hard.

00:13:27.680 But what really happens is it's as hard today as it will ever be.

00:13:34.400 And every day moving forward, it gets easier versus the other way around.

00:13:39.260 It always just keeps getting harder and harder because you keep making these indulgent choices.

00:13:44.520 And like I said before, ultra performers realize that procrastination and indulgence are nothing

00:13:51.120 more than creditors that charge us interest.

00:13:53.820 Meanwhile, ultra performers realize you're always going to pay a price.

00:13:59.040 And that's the thing that we have to come to grips with.

00:14:01.200 We always pay a price.

00:14:02.920 We either pay the price now, today, or we will pay it later with interest.

00:14:08.640 But most of us are trying to go through life trying to circumvent paying the price.

00:14:13.760 We're trying to be successful without putting in the work.

00:14:15.740 We want to believe in all the daydreams of the overnight success or the online viral explosion

00:14:22.560 and millions just coming in.

00:14:24.460 And it's just not true.

00:14:25.760 I mean, when you sit down with any ultra performer, which is the top 1% of their industry, that's

00:14:31.120 how we would categorize that.

00:14:33.760 It's always the story of discipline.

00:14:36.340 It's always the story of doing the things they know they should be doing, even when they

00:14:40.740 don't feel like doing them.

00:14:41.900 It's not about taking the escalator.

00:14:44.000 It's about taking the stairs.

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00:17:23.180 So this brings up an interesting point.

00:17:25.900 So there's a lot of talk on the internet, for example, right?

00:17:28.900 You see all these memes, motivational things about following your passion and being passionate

00:17:34.060 and you got to be passionate about your work.

00:17:35.600 But in my experience, it doesn't seem like I can get passionate about something, but then

00:17:41.940 I don't do the work.

00:17:43.940 But then I'll start working on something, even if I don't feel like it.

00:17:47.920 And then 30, 45 minutes later, I'm like, I'm pretty excited about what I'm working on.

00:17:53.220 So does passion come before work or is passion sort of the result of just doing good work?

00:18:01.940 Well, I'm glad that you asked this, Brett.

00:18:03.640 Nobody has ever asked me this question, not in a public interview.

00:18:08.480 And I really do love the question because I see the same thing as you.

00:18:11.300 And there is a, it's kind of a natural symbiotic relationship in some ways between passion and

00:18:18.180 work.

00:18:18.480 It can be.

00:18:19.720 But I agree with you that the memes that are out there are very, they're very underserving

00:18:24.980 to people because, and look, as we talk about the art of manliness, right?

00:18:30.580 We talk about what does it mean to be a man?

00:18:32.500 To me, being a man means you do what you have to do until you earn the right to do what you

00:18:38.940 want to do.

00:18:40.600 You do what you have to do until you earn the right to do what you want to do.

00:18:44.240 And it's like, if you have kids or if you're starting a business or if you're married, like

00:18:49.540 if you have, if you have any sort of responsibility or obligation in your life, like you need to 0.90

00:18:54.660 let that passion crap go.

00:18:56.540 I mean, you, you, you have other things that matter. 0.98

00:18:58.960 And those, I mean, being a man means you're, you're the protector, you're the provider, your

00:19:04.880 passion is secondary.

00:19:06.640 Now, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be passionate.

00:19:11.000 And I do believe in the statement, if you love what you do, it will feel less like you

00:19:15.680 ever have to work a day in your life.

00:19:18.560 But I think most people who complain about not being passionate, the reason they're not

00:19:25.100 passionate is because they're mediocre at what they're doing.

00:19:27.920 And so this is a litmus test that we use.

00:19:32.060 We, we, we basically call it the crush it test for how to know when you should sort of change

00:19:38.360 jobs and move on.

00:19:40.560 And so people say, well, you know, I'm thinking about quitting my job and I want to just go

00:19:43.900 start this business.

00:19:44.780 And, you know, I want to be online or I want to, you know, do a, do a side business or whatever.

00:19:49.900 It's great.

00:19:50.580 I'm all about that stuff.

00:19:51.760 We love entrepreneurs.

00:19:52.740 We love side businesses.

00:19:53.880 I mean, we teach people how to do that and we also love employees and it's, it's not

00:19:57.940 about the business.

00:19:58.860 It's about you.

00:20:00.500 And so the question I always ask people and the litmus test is, have you crushed it where

00:20:06.080 you're at?

00:20:07.120 Have you, are you excellent at what you're doing?

00:20:10.760 Because if you have not laid it all on the line and you have not been fully committed and

00:20:15.840 you've not done everything in your power to be successful, then you don't really know

00:20:20.580 what your current opportunity affords you because you're being mediocre.

00:20:26.480 So your first step needs to be to crush it where you're at.

00:20:30.240 Otherwise, you're just going to bounce from passionate, uh, pursuit, you know, passionate

00:20:35.220 idea to passionate idea.

00:20:36.860 You're just like this, you know, blowing in the wind.

00:20:39.680 And the reality is nothing ever makes you passionate because you didn't put in the work to be successful.

00:20:45.000 So crush it where you're at, get to the top, um, cause it's like, you know, when you're

00:20:50.760 climbing a mountain, the view at the top looks and feels a whole lot different than the view

00:20:55.720 when you're climbing up the side of the mountain.

00:20:57.360 So climb to the top of the mountain and then decide, is this really giving me what I want?

00:21:02.560 But most people who use that passion argument, it's because they're mediocre at what they're

00:21:07.260 doing.

00:21:07.660 And then they're kind of, they're giving themselves the payoff of saying, well, it's just not my passion.

00:21:12.440 And I think that's, I think that's weak.

00:21:15.300 Okay.

00:21:16.020 So, uh, you, let's say you, you, people realize what they need to do.

00:21:20.020 They got their vision.

00:21:21.040 They know the things they, they have to do, but there's still something that's keeping them from

00:21:25.820 just committing to it and like getting going on it.

00:21:28.720 So you have this, what do you call the buy-in principle?

00:21:31.820 Um, what are some things can people can do to buy into their commitment they want to make

00:21:37.980 to be a better person?

00:21:39.040 Um, yeah, so the buy-in principle simply stated is this, that the more we have invested into

00:21:46.340 something, the less likely we are to let it fail.

00:21:51.540 The more we have invested into something, the less likely we are to let it fail.

00:21:55.600 Um, and it's easy to understand that intellectually, but it's very hard to live by that pragmatically.

00:22:02.440 So when, cause what the buy-in principle suggests is that if we make a commitment to do something

00:22:08.960 and then it becomes difficult to follow through, that we should actually increase our investment.

00:22:15.460 We should spend more time, more money, more prayer, more effort, more focus, more resources

00:22:20.240 on whatever that commitment is.

00:22:23.180 Well, in the escalator world that we live in, it's almost the exact opposite of that.

00:22:27.080 Most of us keep our commitments conditionally.

00:22:30.240 We keep them as long as they're convenient to do so, but the moment it becomes inconvenient

00:22:34.680 to keep that commitment, we typically start questioning that commitment and we start convincing

00:22:39.340 ourselves that maybe it's because I'm just, there's another passion I should be pursuing.

00:22:44.560 And that is, um, you know, really, really dangerous because we start, we start thinking that success

00:22:51.560 is a matter of our circumstances and really success is a matter of our choices.

00:22:56.460 And that's why you have some people who go from average performance to average performance

00:23:00.420 and to average, and they're constantly changing jobs and careers.

00:23:03.860 Um, and it's, it's because it's a mental thing.

00:23:07.320 So in terms of how do you, how do you overcome that?

00:23:10.940 Well, there's a very practical, um, sort of strategy, which is you increase your, your level

00:23:17.100 of commitment and thereby the likelihood of your success by intentionally creating the

00:23:23.040 question, how, so that you don't accidentally relent to the question should most people.

00:23:31.740 We, when, when it becomes challenging to follow through on a commitment, we, we say, you know

00:23:36.540 what, maybe this isn't the right time.

00:23:38.660 Maybe this isn't, you know, the right place or, you know, should I do this now?

00:23:43.100 Should I do it later?

00:23:43.960 Should I give it to somebody else?

00:23:45.960 Uh, and their whole life becomes about that question.

00:23:48.320 Should, should, should, should, should, should.

00:23:50.920 And if you're not careful, Brett, you become what I like to call a should head.

00:23:55.180 Um, and so you, you, you gotta be aware of should.

00:23:58.560 Well, the ultra performers, it's not that they know all the answers, but they ask themselves

00:24:03.380 the right question and they, they shift.

00:24:06.380 This is what we call the pivot point.

00:24:07.880 The pivot point is when you think you're shifting from, should I do this?

00:24:11.800 Or can I pull this off?

00:24:13.400 Or is it possible to simply asking the question, how can I pull this off?

00:24:18.760 How can I hit that target?

00:24:20.460 How can I meet that deadline?

00:24:22.140 How can I lose that weight?

00:24:23.680 How can I start that business?

00:24:25.540 How can I get out of debt?

00:24:27.180 How can I save this marriage?

00:24:29.260 How?

00:24:30.900 Gotcha.

00:24:31.840 Here's another thing that I've done.

00:24:33.280 And I love that.

00:24:34.080 And instead of asking should, asking how, I'm like trying to find a solution to your problem.

00:24:38.460 But another thing I've done, I've applied the buy-in principle of my own life.

00:24:41.520 I've actually like made bets, uh, with people.

00:24:45.440 So there's like a website called stick.

00:24:47.400 I think it's S T I K K. 1.00

00:24:50.480 And you can actually put money on the line for like goals you want to accomplish.

00:24:55.840 No way.

00:24:56.160 That's cool.

00:24:56.780 So it's, what's ingenious about it is you have, you set up an accountability partner

00:25:00.200 and you can, if you don't fulfill your goal, uh, you lose your money and you can make it

00:25:07.160 even like more, uh, make it hurt more by having the money go to some organization that is against

00:25:15.540 your values, right?

00:25:16.720 So if you are a diehard Republican, you can have the money go to the democratic national

00:25:20.860 committee, or if you're, um, pro abortion, you have to go to an anti-abortion.

00:25:27.360 So it's kind of crazy.

00:25:29.300 And I've, I've done that in my, a few times when I've had like these big projects where

00:25:33.080 I haven't wanted, I just wasn't committed to it.

00:25:36.780 Just didn't, wasn't bought into it.

00:25:38.620 I put money on the line.

00:25:40.160 And once I've had that money on the line, I was like, it hurt.

00:25:43.940 Like knowing that I was going to lose that money, like no matter what, I was going to

00:25:47.740 get it done, get that thing done.

00:25:49.980 So that was another thing I've done in my own life to sort of.

00:25:51.900 I love that.

00:25:52.760 I mean, that's great.

00:25:54.380 That's a great example.

00:25:55.260 The more you have invested into something, you know, and there it's not just money,

00:25:59.120 but it's also that emotional pain.

00:26:01.240 That's the worst.

00:26:02.300 Yeah.

00:26:02.600 One of our, uh, one of our coaching clients, we just, they just sent this out on the email.

00:26:07.200 Um, she is an, a, I think, I think she's a huge Auburn fan.

00:26:12.980 So she lives in Alabama and she's a diehard Auburn fan.

00:26:15.840 Well, she set up a referral contest, her and her coach. 0.98

00:26:19.800 And if she didn't get a certain number of referrals, she has to wear Alabama, uh, clothing 1.00

00:26:25.860 gear and talk about how much she loves Alabama for like a week.

00:26:29.720 And so that's just those little kind of, um, consequences, those, those play a big factor.

00:26:38.120 And, and coming back to the earlier question, you asked like your story there about using

00:26:42.880 stick.

00:26:43.520 I think Brett is a, it makes the future more real.

00:26:47.920 It, and so that, that, that helps with that long-term perspective.

00:26:53.560 So a principle you talk about in your book, Take the Stairs, which resonated with me.

00:26:56.900 I think it's important for particularly younger people to understand and comprehend is this

00:27:02.440 idea called the harvest principle.

00:27:04.680 Uh, what's, what is the harvest principle?

00:27:06.680 Can you explain that for our listeners?

00:27:08.520 Yeah.

00:27:08.880 Well, you know, one of the things we have done is really studied, um, time management and

00:27:14.820 we've really challenged and we've gone out to ultra performers and we've taken this list

00:27:19.120 of cliches you hear about time management and just said, Hey, do you buy in?

00:27:22.680 Like, do you believe in this?

00:27:23.760 Is this a, do you actually believe this, this, this statement?

00:27:27.200 Like, do you operate your life or your business by it?

00:27:29.100 And we have found that emphatically almost always they do not.

00:27:34.140 And very often it's the opposite.

00:27:35.760 In fact, that's what the new procrastinating on purpose book, that's why we wrote it was

00:27:39.440 to sort of dispel all of these myths about productivity.

00:27:42.580 And one of them, I mean, one of the most common things you hear is people talk about work-life

00:27:46.600 balance.

00:27:47.580 Well, so we go out and we ask these, these ultra performers, we now call them multipliers.

00:27:53.140 That's the term we use in the, in the, the, the new book, which is a subtitle is, uh, by

00:27:57.600 permissions to multiply your time.

00:27:59.700 Um, but anyways, the, they, they kind of, they said balance is basically a complete joke

00:28:06.660 that they have never embraced that idea of work-life balance because, and if you think

00:28:12.560 about it now that I've asked them and kind of, we've gone through these interview processes,

00:28:17.420 balance is really a horrible metaphor for how to spend your time because the word balance

00:28:22.000 by definition means equal force and opposite directions.

00:28:26.060 So it sort of implies the idea that being balanced in our time would be spending equal time on

00:28:32.100 different things.

00:28:33.660 The part that's crazy about that is that if you sleep something like eight hours a day

00:28:37.380 and you work something like eight hours a day, then to be, the only way you could be

00:28:41.840 balanced would be to do one other task and you'd have to do that other task eight hours

00:28:46.300 every single day, which is ludicrous.

00:28:49.400 It doesn't even make sense.

00:28:50.860 Um, and you know, multipliers have realized also that success is not related to the amount

00:28:56.660 of time that you spend doing something.

00:28:58.220 It's not related to the volume of tasks that you complete success is simply related to the

00:29:03.800 significance of those tasks and what, uh, and, and namely the results that are achieved.

00:29:09.180 And you can, you can achieve results in certain areas of your life with less time working out

00:29:14.160 is probably the best example.

00:29:15.340 You don't have to work out eight hours every day to be in great health.

00:29:18.600 If you work out 30 minutes every single day, you're going to find that it's going to, for

00:29:22.760 most people, that's going to make a massive change.

00:29:25.260 And so what ultra performers do is they actually said it was the opposite.

00:29:30.320 They said, rather than trying to create balance, they, they intentionally create imbalance.

00:29:36.220 They imbalance their life for a short predefined season, uh, which we, we refer to as a harvest

00:29:43.560 season because it reflects much more the attitude of like a, a farmer during harvest.

00:29:49.800 The farmer during harvest, you know, they work 16, 18 hours a day because the

00:29:55.240 the harvest is when the harvest is, and they have to harvest their crop and that's going

00:30:00.620 to make them survive the rest of the year.

00:30:02.500 And that is much more reflective of how life works.

00:30:05.200 It works in these seasons.

00:30:06.760 And so the idea is to imbalance your life for a short predefined season and leverage the

00:30:12.040 power of focus and intensity to create a desired result.

00:30:16.340 And then once you've create, once you've created that result, it's much easier to sustain that

00:30:22.780 result over time with less effort.

00:30:25.480 And, and, you know, just a kind of a personal story for me, I used to be 45 pounds heavier

00:30:31.020 than I am right now.

00:30:33.100 And a lot of people don't know that.

00:30:35.020 And when I first started on this whole journey of, of self-discipline, I made this resolution

00:30:40.260 that I was going to stop drinking alcohol forever, that I was going to stop eating dessert forever.

00:30:48.200 I was going to work out every single day forever until I got to my desired goal, my desired weight.

00:30:59.280 And I hit that, you know, eight months after I started, I lost 45 pounds.

00:31:04.540 And ever since then, it's like, yeah, I have, I have a couple of drinks.

00:31:08.180 I have dessert a couple of nights a week.

00:31:10.960 And I don't have to work out every single day.

00:31:13.040 I work out a few times a week or I work out just, you know, a little bit every day.

00:31:18.100 And, and it's a lot easier to maintain it.

00:31:20.680 So I'm not in a harvest season that relates to my physical stuff right now, because I already

00:31:24.860 went through that and I'm just maintaining.

00:31:26.920 Now I'm imbalancing towards other things.

00:31:30.120 Awesome.

00:31:30.260 Yeah.

00:31:30.380 I love that idea of like seasons in your life, because I get a lot of letters from,

00:31:34.540 readers, they're young guys in their twenties and they just feel like they're frustrated

00:31:38.440 because things aren't happening for them.

00:31:41.040 Right.

00:31:41.180 And they're like, then they don't have the success that they, they think they should have

00:31:44.760 by now.

00:31:45.480 And usually it means like they want a house or they want, you know, you know, the typical

00:31:50.320 trappings of success.

00:31:52.300 And I always have to tell them like, man, that's going to, that's going to take a while.

00:31:55.340 Like you're, you're in a different stage in your life where you have to focus on different

00:31:58.600 things and sort of create a foundation so you can get to those, those things.

00:32:02.160 You can't have it now.

00:32:03.200 You know, and yeah, I just, I think that analogy of seasons to your life is really helpful

00:32:09.560 and helping you think about the long game.

00:32:11.540 Right.

00:32:11.960 And then when you move in, when you get married and you have kids, like you're going to move

00:32:15.420 into a different season.

00:32:16.180 Like right now, you know, you're not going to have as much fun as you did when you were

00:32:20.300 in your early twenties and single and footloose and fancy free.

00:32:23.860 And that's okay.

00:32:24.940 Right.

00:32:25.500 That's just, you're in a new season, you approach it that way.

00:32:28.160 And then the kids will eventually move out and you'll have more time to yourself again.

00:32:33.000 But, uh, the seasonal approach is really nice.

00:32:36.860 Yeah.

00:32:37.320 Well, thank you.

00:32:38.320 I mean, amen.

00:32:38.980 I'm, I'm, I'm glad that it resonates because, and, and, you know, really, I mean, sometimes

00:32:43.440 I think people say that they go, well, you know, I was just not going to be fun.

00:32:47.060 Well, that's not, that's not the reality.

00:32:50.080 The reality is when you do this right and you embrace these philosophies, it's just

00:32:54.440 your idea of fun changes.

00:32:57.020 Um, and what, what used to be fun was getting bottle service at the club.

00:33:01.680 And then it was, you know, having a nice car.

00:33:04.500 Uh, and then at some point it might become fun is being able to spend time with your kids

00:33:09.600 in the middle of the day and having the freedom to be able to do that because you work so hard.

00:33:15.100 I mean, when I was in my twenties, I worked so hard.

00:33:18.540 And the reason why was because I wanted to work then because I said, you know what, one

00:33:23.000 day I'm going to have kids.

00:33:23.920 And when I have kids, I don't want work to be the driving force in my life.

00:33:27.840 Um, so I wanted, I was working harder now because of, to, to, to create an opportunity

00:33:35.680 that was going to happen in the future.

00:33:37.300 Again, a lot of this ties back to that sort of longer term thinking.

00:33:41.560 Okay.

00:33:42.000 So your, uh, your second book, um, was, it's called Procrastinate on Purpose.

00:33:46.700 And you say in the beginning of this book that it's actually this, you should have wrote,

00:33:50.720 written this book first, sort of the prequel to Take the Stairs.

00:33:53.920 Why, why is that?

00:33:55.780 Yeah.

00:33:56.220 You know, honestly, Brett, I didn't even realize that it was the prequel until I was, you know,

00:34:03.060 we had done all the research and I was writing and I'm at the very end of the book and it

00:34:06.120 dawns on me that this is the prequel because what Take the Stairs is about, Take the Stairs

00:34:11.740 is all about the psychology of overcoming procrastination, how, you know, increasing your

00:34:17.700 self-discipline and how to do the things you know you should be doing, even when you don't

00:34:22.520 feel like doing them.

00:34:24.400 What Procrastinate on Purpose is about is what to do with everything else so that you can get

00:34:30.460 down to that.

00:34:32.020 In other words, how do you know what the thing is that only you can do that you must do and

00:34:38.200 it must be done now, even if you don't feel like it.

00:34:41.100 And that is what the focus funnel, which is kind of the core framework of POP, Procrastinate

00:34:45.620 on Purpose.

00:34:46.720 Um, so the POP book is really, um, what to do with everything else so that you can, you

00:34:55.120 know, boil it down to figure out the thing that only you can do.

00:34:59.360 Gotcha.

00:34:59.800 So, I mean, I think you've already hit on this a little bit, but, you know, you start

00:35:03.460 off the book talking about the way most people approach time management just doesn't work.

00:35:07.820 And I guess the way most people try to approach time management is balance for starters, right?

00:35:12.820 Like, I'm going to have eight hours of this, I'm going to do eight hours of family time,

00:35:15.760 eight hours of work.

00:35:17.000 Um, but then you also say that a common way that people try to manage their time is prioritization.

00:35:23.340 That it doesn't really work though.

00:35:25.300 Why is that?

00:35:27.000 Yeah.

00:35:27.440 So we talk about the, the, the history of time management theory and how as a body of

00:35:33.660 work, it developed in the fifties and sixties.

00:35:35.680 And it was really, originally it was sort of one dimensional.

00:35:38.580 It was all about efficiency.

00:35:39.740 It was managing your time by trying to do things faster, which made sense because that was

00:35:44.520 sort of the, the paradigm of the day was on the heels of manufacturing era and, you

00:35:49.240 know, cars, a Model T Ford and all that sort of stuff.

00:35:51.780 Um, and then in the late eighties, prioritizing your time emerged as the new paradigm.

00:35:59.140 And I, I give a lot of credit to the late, great Dr.

00:36:02.920 Stephen Covey because he created, you know, he, he popularized this thing called the time

00:36:07.800 management matrix where the Y axis is importance and the X axis is urgency.

00:36:11.480 And what Dr. 0.87

00:36:12.940 Covey did was he gave us for the first time ever, like a scoring system and, and taught

00:36:19.560 us that not all tasks are created equal.

00:36:22.700 Um, and based on these two calculations, importance and urgency, you could, you could basically wait

00:36:29.640 certain tasks to be more important.

00:36:31.880 And then you prioritize those tasks, right?

00:36:35.500 Well, for the last 25 years, we've thrown around that word, prioritizing your time.

00:36:40.100 Like it's the end all be all the time management theory.

00:36:42.540 And there's nothing wrong with prioritizing.

00:36:44.800 I mean, prioritizing is a valuable skill, but there is a massive limitation to prioritizing

00:36:50.360 that nobody ever talks about.

00:36:51.900 And that is, there is nothing about prioritizing that creates more time.

00:36:57.180 All prioritizing does is take item number seven on your to-do list and it bumps it up to number

00:37:02.680 one, but there's nothing inherently about that, that creates more time.

00:37:07.640 It also does nothing to help you accomplish the other items that are still remaining on

00:37:11.520 your to-do list.

00:37:12.860 So it's a valuable skill to be able to focus first on what matters most, but it doesn't

00:37:18.260 create more time.

00:37:19.620 And so it's more like borrowing time.

00:37:21.960 Prioritizing is like borrowing.

00:37:23.460 It's borrowing time from one activity to spend on another.

00:37:26.280 Rightfully so, but it still doesn't help me with the remaining items.

00:37:30.940 And so when you're operating in those two paradigms, it's like the only option you have is to run

00:37:36.700 faster, be more efficient, right?

00:37:38.560 So it's like we can work longer hours or we can move faster during the day or to try to

00:37:44.900 juggle more things.

00:37:46.100 And you're constantly juggling a hundred different balls in the air.

00:37:49.740 And so, and that really describes, I think, how most of our coaching clients initially feel

00:37:55.360 about their schedule when we're working with them.

00:37:58.400 It's like, and we have met some of the most efficient people on the planet.

00:38:02.140 We've met some of the best prioritizers on the planet, but really it's like all, all we

00:38:07.480 are is a bunch of insanely fast juggling hamsters sprinting towards this inevitable crash landing

00:38:13.700 because you can only do things so fast, which is very well evidenced by the fact that we all carry

00:38:18.960 around miniature computers in our pocket, are working longer hours than ever before.

00:38:23.160 We have more technology and yet we're still never caught up and we have more calendars and

00:38:28.280 checklists to help us prioritize.

00:38:30.680 And, and none of that seems to help.

00:38:32.260 We're falling further and further behind.

00:38:34.140 And so that's the limit, that's the limit, the limit, uh, limitation of prioritizing.

00:38:40.020 And that was the problem we really wanted to solve with pop.

00:38:43.660 So you add in another line into that matrix and it's significance is I guess significance

00:38:51.120 a way of figuring out like playing the long game.

00:38:55.120 Is it, is it putting your, your actions in a, in a perspective of a longer frame of time

00:39:00.060 instead of just the here and now?

00:39:01.300 Yeah, it basically, it basically is Brett.

00:39:04.560 That's pretty accurate.

00:39:05.460 I think if, uh, you know, coming back to that matrix, if the y-axis is importance, which is

00:39:10.900 how much does something matter?

00:39:13.040 And the x-axis is urgency, which is how soon does something matter?

00:39:19.720 Then significance becomes the z-axis.

00:39:23.480 And that is how long is this going to matter?

00:39:27.360 And the significance calculation changes everything because it takes that two-dimensional model

00:39:32.640 and it makes it into three-dimensional.

00:39:34.960 Um, it takes a square and makes it into a cube.

00:39:37.660 And we have said that's the, that is now era three thinking is using the significance calculation

00:39:42.420 to multiply your time.

00:39:44.300 And the big distinction here is, look, let's say absent the significance calculation, we inadvertently

00:39:53.260 overweight the urgency calculation, meaning that, well, here's a myth.

00:40:00.480 Here's a, here's a myth of time management.

00:40:02.120 People say there's nothing you can do to create more time.

00:40:04.360 Time is the one thing that you can never, you know, get more of.

00:40:08.420 Well, it is true inside of the, the, the paradigm and the construct of one day that you cannot

00:40:15.560 create more time.

00:40:16.480 We all have the same 24 hours, 1440 minutes, 86,400 seconds, but that's exactly the problem.

00:40:23.920 Most people only think inside of the paradigm of one day.

00:40:27.120 And when you are only thinking on, in terms of one day, you immediately always go to urgency.

00:40:34.540 You're, you're sucked into putting out fires, dealing with whatever is latest and loudest,

00:40:38.860 and you feel pressured to work longer hours and constantly cram everything in because you

00:40:44.220 only have this one day.

00:40:45.960 Well, when you make the significance calculation, it changes everything.

00:40:50.040 Because when you start thinking not just about today, but tomorrow and the next day and the

00:40:54.620 next day and the next day, you start to realize that there are some things that you can do today

00:41:00.380 that make tomorrow better.

00:41:02.480 You can do things now that make tomorrow easier.

00:41:04.920 You can do things, you can set things up in a certain way today that will give you more

00:41:09.420 time in the future.

00:41:11.040 And so that brings us to the premise of the second book.

00:41:15.620 And so in one sentence, and if you've, if you've been sleeping, wake up, like you don't

00:41:19.440 want to miss this part.

00:41:20.640 This is with the whole, the whole concept is built around this one sentence.

00:41:24.800 And that is the way that you multiply time is by giving yourself the emotional permission

00:41:31.020 to spend time on things today that create more time tomorrow.

00:41:39.560 I love that.

00:41:41.040 But how do you do that?

00:41:43.080 So is that what the funnel is about?

00:41:45.240 Is it helping you weed out the stuff that you want to vocal, weed out the stuff that

00:41:51.440 won't be significant in the long run?

00:41:53.880 Is that what the five permissions are about?

00:41:56.500 Yeah, exactly.

00:41:57.240 So yeah, you know, the significance calculation, the concept of multiplying time, that's kind

00:42:03.160 of the philosophical part of the pop discussion.

00:42:07.540 The practical part really happens with the focus funnel.

00:42:10.720 So the focus funnel was our attempt to codify the thought process that ultra performers go

00:42:16.280 through whenever they are making a decision about how to spend their time and what to spend

00:42:21.560 it on and what not to.

00:42:22.520 And so if you picture a funnel at the top part, the wide entry point, if you have all of your

00:42:27.780 tasks and emails and meetings and all that stuff coming in the focus funnel, then the

00:42:32.340 top part of the funnel is eliminate.

00:42:34.460 It's the permission to ignore.

00:42:36.660 And we can go through these in more detail if you want.

00:42:38.740 But if you can't eliminate it, then that task drops down to the middle of the funnel, which

00:42:43.600 is automate.

00:42:44.580 That's the permission to invest.

00:42:46.700 If you can't automate that task, then it drops down to the bottom of the funnel, which

00:42:51.160 is the delegate section.

00:42:52.520 And you say, that's the permission of imperfect.

00:42:55.680 And you say, can this be done by someone else?

00:42:58.400 Now, if you can't eliminate, automate, or delegate the task, then that task falls out the bottom

00:43:03.920 of the focus funnel.

00:43:05.460 At that point, there is one key remaining question.

00:43:08.740 And that question is, must this task be done now, or can it wait until later?

00:43:14.200 If the task must be done now, then that's concentrate.

00:43:18.400 It's the permission to protect.

00:43:20.460 It's all about protecting your focus, eliminating distractions, doing the things you know you should

00:43:26.280 be doing.

00:43:26.740 That is kind of where the pop book ends and the take the stairs book picks up.

00:43:32.260 But if the answer to the question, can this wait until later, is yes, then that is where

00:43:38.040 we're inviting you and encouraging you and challenging you to not eliminate, automate,

00:43:44.600 delegate, or concentrate, but to procrastinate on purpose.

00:43:50.240 Procrastinate on purpose.

00:43:51.500 We call it pop.

00:43:52.680 That's where the title of the book comes from.

00:43:55.020 Now, when you procrastinate on an activity on purpose, you're not going to procrastinate

00:43:59.060 on it forever.

00:43:59.740 But what you're going to do is pop that activity back to the top of the focus funnel, at which

00:44:05.380 point it's going to enter into this holding pattern where it sort of cycles through the

00:44:10.560 focus funnel.

00:44:11.900 And then what happens is ultimately, or eventually, one of the other four strategies, eliminate,

00:44:19.240 automate, delegate, or concentrate, will be executed upon that task.

00:44:23.220 Because either, if the answer to the question, can this wait until later, is always yes, you

00:44:28.720 eventually develop the confidence to do what you should have done in the first place, which

00:44:32.100 was eliminate it.

00:44:33.620 Or you figure out a way to automate it, or someone rises to the call of leadership and

00:44:37.660 ends up getting delegated.

00:44:38.940 Or you end up having to do it because the answer to can this wait until later shifts from yes,

00:44:44.360 it can, to no, it can't.

00:44:45.460 And then you must do it now.

00:44:46.960 You know it's your next most significant priority.

00:44:49.180 Where do you think, or what permission do you think most people have trouble with?

00:44:53.260 Like, where do things get stuck?

00:44:54.580 Is it the eliminate or the delegate?

00:44:57.300 Which one is it?

00:44:58.520 Wow, it's all of them.

00:45:00.040 It is.

00:45:00.700 It's all of them, and it's different for every person.

00:45:03.260 And that's, I think, one thing that's great about the focus funnel is it's intentionally,

00:45:08.340 it's designed to be real dynamic and allow to be very fluid that you can apply it perpetually

00:45:15.660 on any second of every day because we live in this world of perpetual reprioritization

00:45:21.860 where there are, based on what comes into our inbox or what we see on Twitter or what

00:45:26.400 we read online, our priorities can shift in a second, and then a second later they shift

00:45:32.620 again.

00:45:34.660 So a lot of people struggle with, a lot of people struggle with all of them.

00:45:39.560 Eliminate is probably the one that I think almost everybody struggles with.

00:45:46.520 It's one of the ones I struggle the most with.

00:45:50.100 And eliminate is the one, Brett, where we have by far the widest swath of opportunity,

00:45:56.920 if you will, for immediate improvement.

00:45:59.820 Because if we eliminate something today, we create more time tomorrow.

00:46:05.580 By saying no to something today that we would be doing tomorrow, we have multiplied our time

00:46:09.980 because now tomorrow we have space, we have margin where we would have been doing something.

00:46:14.520 Well, for me, I have a hard time saying no to people.

00:46:20.900 Really?

00:46:21.500 Yeah.

00:46:22.040 I mean, I'm a people pleaser.

00:46:23.560 I just am.

00:46:26.040 And so what ends up happening is I kind of go through life without ever trying to say no. 1.00

00:46:30.340 Well, one of the multipliers basically set me straight and he was like, Rory, that's stupid. 0.99

00:46:37.220 It's impossible to go through life without ever saying no. 0.97

00:46:40.520 You have to realize that anytime you say yes to one thing, you are simultaneously saying

00:46:45.820 no to an infinite number of others.

00:46:50.020 And that was a big deal because I started to realize that for me, if I am not consciously

00:46:56.660 saying no to the things that do not matter, then I find that I almost always end up unconsciously

00:47:02.300 saying no to the things that really do matter.

00:47:05.400 And inside of that realization, I then develop the first permission, which is the permission

00:47:10.860 to ignore and the permission to say no to the things that don't matter so I can say yes

00:47:16.280 to the things that do.

00:47:17.880 And most of our inbox is like we could just go through and just delete and eliminate.

00:47:22.460 And there's things on our calendar that we could just stop doing and we don't owe anybody

00:47:26.600 an explanation, but we have a hard time emotionally doing that, which is another one of the big

00:47:32.000 misconceptions is that most of us think of time management.

00:47:34.760 It's always logical, tips and tricks, tools and technology, calendars and checklists.

00:47:39.160 But time management today is no longer logical.

00:47:41.840 It's emotional.

00:47:43.180 So do you have any advice on managing the emotions of saying no?

00:47:48.660 Do you have scripts that people can use who have a hard time doing that?

00:47:53.000 I mean, what can they do to take the sting off?

00:47:55.200 Besides understanding that if they say yes or saying no to something else, but once they

00:47:59.420 have to actually do it, anything there?

00:48:02.880 I would just say you ask yourself, if I do this activity, what will I have to say no to?

00:48:09.560 Or what will I end up saying no to by saying yes to this?

00:48:12.540 It's just kind of this checkpoint.

00:48:16.260 So I think that's one big idea.

00:48:19.380 The other thing to realize is you can say no and still be nice.

00:48:27.280 And if you become an expert at nicely saying no, it's like you can say no and you can still

00:48:33.700 be gracious about it.

00:48:35.260 And maybe you have to turn down someone's request.

00:48:37.920 Like, you know, we get a lot of requests to go speaking and, you know, my speaking fee

00:48:44.520 is whatever it is.

00:48:45.980 And a lot of times people will request and maybe they don't have my speaking fee.

00:48:50.720 And it's such a bummer because it's like, man, you know, here's somebody reaching out

00:48:53.820 to us.

00:48:54.200 They really want us to come.

00:48:55.340 It's such a compliment to be invited.

00:48:57.100 But it's just like at this point in the career, I can't say yes to being doing that

00:49:02.760 because then it's pulling me away from the other things that I'm doing.

00:49:05.600 And it's not empirically like worth the time.

00:49:08.820 And so what we figured out is we said, well, we learned this from somebody is that we will

00:49:15.000 send anybody that we have to say no to, we will often send them like a little gift package

00:49:19.940 of just little books and video courses and things like that.

00:49:23.700 And it's just like, so sorry we couldn't come.

00:49:25.700 But hey, here's a thing.

00:49:28.080 Or what we learned to do is now we do like virtual keynotes.

00:49:33.080 Like, so we'll do it via webinar, like where they can see my face and I'll present live

00:49:38.520 to a live audience.

00:49:39.260 But instead of having to get on a plane and travel and go do that, I'm able to do it from

00:49:44.060 my office.

00:49:44.500 So it really is less time out of, out of my, you know, entire schedule.

00:49:49.480 Yeah.

00:49:49.620 You know, something else that helps me, I love those ideas.

00:49:51.780 I'm going to start putting those in practice.

00:49:53.060 Something else that helps me when I have to say no to someone is to remind myself that when

00:49:57.440 I ask someone, like if they could do something, I'm always expecting no for an answer.

00:50:02.100 Like I, I'm not, you know, it's like when I ask, I'm not expecting them to say yes.

00:50:06.460 I'm like, okay, they could say no.

00:50:07.880 Like, and if they said no, like, okay.

00:50:09.940 And so it's just like, I imagine the other person when I, when someone's asking me to do

00:50:14.880 something or asking a favor, they're asking with the idea that, well, he could say no too.

00:50:20.240 You know, it's like, I don't get that upset when people say no to me.

00:50:24.260 So maybe other people, I don't know.

00:50:25.800 So that's a really good point, Brett.

00:50:27.720 I think that's really good.

00:50:28.760 I've never thought about that, but it's like, sometimes it's harder for the person saying

00:50:33.400 no than for the person receiving the no.

00:50:35.740 And we make it, we make it a big deal to, but I feel the same way.

00:50:39.940 It's like, if I'm reaching out to somebody who is a favor, it's like, you know, I, I know

00:50:46.200 is a possibility and it's, it's, it's not a bad thing.

00:50:49.000 Yeah.

00:50:49.300 If it happens, okay.

00:50:49.980 No big deal.

00:50:50.760 I have a contingency plan for that.

00:50:53.380 Right.

00:50:53.800 Well, man, this is great stuff.

00:50:55.080 Um, we could probably keep talking forever, but I'm going to, I'm going to let you go.

00:50:58.420 Um, but where could, before we go, where can people learn more about your work?

00:51:02.160 I would say, I honestly, I would say the best thing you could do is invest one hour.

00:51:07.300 Uh, we put together a free one hour webinar.

00:51:09.980 Uh, it's at procrastinate on purpose.com.

00:51:12.860 Um, and if you, if you just go to procrastinate on purpose.com, you can register and watch this

00:51:19.100 free one hour training where I walk you through the whole focus funnel.

00:51:22.000 You see it.

00:51:22.800 We talk about the relationship to take the stairs.

00:51:25.360 You can really kind of get your hands around it.

00:51:27.320 And I promise if you invest that one hour with me, you will get thousands of hours back as

00:51:33.500 a result of the shift that happens in your thinking.

00:51:36.600 Um, and then from there, there's links to my blog and podcast and, you know, all my Twitter

00:51:41.440 and all my other stuff, but just go to procrastinate on purpose.com.

00:51:44.620 Check out the free webinar and start there.

00:51:47.080 Awesome.

00:51:47.260 Well, Rory Vaden, thank you so much for your time.

00:51:48.860 It's been a pleasure.

00:51:50.680 Oh, Brett, it's, it's, it's my pleasure, man.

00:51:52.660 And you do such a good thing.

00:51:54.400 I'm so glad that you said yes to having me.

00:51:57.160 And, uh, the last thing I would just leave everybody with is, you know, remember no matter

00:52:00.580 who you are, no matter who you were yesterday for all of us, success is never owned.

00:52:06.300 It's only rented and the rent is due every day.

00:52:10.160 Thanks, Rory.

00:52:11.180 Our guest today was Rory Vaden.

00:52:12.360 He's the author of the book procrastinated on purpose, as well as take the stairs for

00:52:16.200 more information about his work, check out Rory Vaden.com.

00:52:19.300 And for those free tools, uh, that he talked about and procrastinate on purpose, go to procrastinate

00:52:23.880 on purpose.com.

00:52:28.380 Well, that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips

00:52:32.660 and advice.

00:52:33.100 Make sure to check out the art of manliness website at art of manliness.com.

00:52:36.180 And if you enjoy the show and you feel like you're getting something out of it, I'd really

00:52:38.900 appreciate it if you give us a review on iTunes, Stitcher, whatever it is used to listen

00:52:42.240 on the podcast that will help get the word out about the show.

00:52:44.700 So again, I thank you if you do that.

00:52:46.560 And until next time, this is Brett McKay telling you to stay manly.

00:52:49.800 Okay.

00:52:54.260 Bye.

00:52:54.340 Bye.

00:52:54.900 Bye.

00:52:55.300 Bye.

00:52:56.560 Bye.

00:52:59.080 Bye.

00:53:11.780 Bye.

00:53:12.840 Bye.

00:53:15.120 Bye.

The Art of Manliness - July 23, 2015

#124： Self-Discipline & Personal Effectiveness With Rory Vaden

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