The Art of Manliness - #128： How Your Obsession With Success Is Making You Miserable With Jim Rubens

00:00:00.000 Brad McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:18.280 So a survey came out a few years ago that said that one in three American adults are

00:00:21.840 pervasively dissatisfied with their lives.

00:00:24.360 Research has also shown that if you're born after 1970, you're seven times more likely

00:00:28.900 to have depression than those who were born before 1970.

00:00:32.980 One in four of Americans have some sort of addiction, whether substance or behavior.

00:00:37.500 We're drowning in record personal and public debt.

00:00:41.500 And the crazy thing is we live in one of the most affluent times in our country's history,

00:00:45.640 safest periods in our country's history.

00:00:47.360 So, I mean, everything is awesome, but everyone, a lot of people are feeling really miserable.

00:00:51.720 Why is that?

00:00:53.140 Well, our guest today wrote a book and we want to find out the answer to that.

00:00:56.600 His name is Jim Rubens.

00:00:57.820 He is a New Hampshire politician as well as businessman, and his book is called Over

00:01:02.160 Success, Healing the American Obsession with Wealth, Fame, Power, and Perfection.

00:01:06.940 And in this book, Mr. Ruben makes the argument that the reason why everyone's so miserable

00:01:10.440 is that we're pursuing material success at all costs.

00:01:15.180 It's the thing we put up before anything else, as well as fame and notoriety.

00:01:19.300 And he makes the case that's making us miserable.

00:01:21.320 And he gets into sociological research, psychological research, neuroscience, that shows that our

00:01:27.220 obsession with success, and he calls this obsession with success over success, is making us feel

00:01:32.460 terrible.

00:01:33.140 So it's a fascinating discussion.

00:01:34.720 I think you're really going to like what we talk about today.

00:01:36.460 It's sort of a balance.

00:01:37.500 A lot of times on the podcast, we talk about how to be more successful.

00:01:40.380 I think his book provides a warning if you get too crazy with that.

00:01:45.020 So without further ado, Jim Rubens, Over Success.

00:01:55.380 All right, Jim Rubens, welcome to the show.

00:01:58.420 And it is a pleasure being here.

00:02:00.140 All right, so your book is Over Success.

00:02:02.340 And I encountered this book by accident at the library a few years ago.

00:02:07.080 And for some reason, I was drawn to it, checked it out, and really was amazed by the content

00:02:12.220 and the argument you make.

00:02:13.400 And you basically make the argument that there's a disease, quote unquote, and you call it over

00:02:20.300 success.

00:02:21.440 And it affects Westerners, but primarily Americans.

00:02:24.960 What are the symptoms of over success?

00:02:28.740 Well, I guess I'll launch right into what is, well, start with what's natural and healthy

00:02:34.980 and good for human beings.

00:02:36.440 We're unique among the species on Earth.

00:02:38.480 We're a species that is very, very good at working with one another in groups.

00:02:44.980 And we have done amazing things over the past 10,000 years because of our ability to form

00:02:51.700 groups and to transmit knowledge and cultural behaviors, healthy cultural behaviors from

00:02:56.980 generation to generation.

00:02:58.120 And we've basically gone from a blip on the species radar screen 60,000 years ago to basically

00:03:04.720 dominating the Earth today.

00:03:05.980 And there's a reason for that.

00:03:07.300 And it's the healthy parts of success.

00:03:09.800 And what's the healthy part is that we all, as individuals, want to have internal satisfaction

00:03:17.240 from producing something of value, of being recognized by people who are close to us, of

00:03:23.380 attaining personal goals, achieving altruism, or mastering something difficult.

00:03:28.580 Well, and in doing that, in doing those things often, and this is a healthy thing, we seek

00:03:33.320 to attain recognition and satisfaction from a pat on the back from other people who are

00:03:38.120 close to us.

00:03:39.620 And those motivations, that motivation to do that for the good of our group, for the good

00:03:44.100 of our community, if you want to call it a community, has led to this extraordinary

00:03:48.440 progress that humans have made, particularly in America over the past 200 some odd years.

00:03:53.300 We've doubled the human lifespan, for example.

00:03:56.620 We've created food abundance so that there's very few of us in America ever need to even

00:04:03.000 be concerned about having enough warmth in our homes or food in our bellies.

00:04:07.980 That's not universally true, but we've eliminated hunger and starvation in a remarkable way.

00:04:18.120 Now, the unhealthy, what I call over-success and obsession, and the title of the book,

00:04:24.860 The Oversuccess, Healing the American Obsession with Wealth, Fame, Power, and Perfection, the

00:04:30.040 unhealthy part of it is due in part to the change in the world, the changes in the world

00:04:35.720 we live in.

00:04:36.580 And unhealthy success or over-success is when people are pathologically pursuing unattainable

00:04:47.080 goals or fixated on unattainable goals, but more wealth, fame, power, and perfection or

00:04:53.280 beauty than can be obtained by ordinary people.

00:04:58.020 So, healthy success, doing things for personal satisfaction, improving life in your group,

00:05:06.380 mastering something, unhealthy success, pathological pursuit of unattainable goals, whatever they

00:05:12.140 might be.

00:05:13.080 Have you experienced over-success in your own life?

00:05:15.740 Was that what caused you to start investigating this and doing the research about it?

00:05:20.080 Yeah, absolutely.

00:05:23.960 Human beings are all different.

00:05:25.440 We vary on various scales of behaviors and personal goals and attributes.

00:05:33.100 Myself, I had, early in my adulthood, I decided to live a very simple life without being motivated

00:05:44.740 much by materialism.

00:05:46.000 So, I did most of what I did for altruistic reasons.

00:05:51.140 And I started, it was my first business, I started about 10 businesses in my life.

00:05:55.260 Since then, my first business was, started purely out of altruism.

00:05:59.200 I wanted to have recycling in my area of the country, in Vermont and New Hampshire.

00:06:03.380 And there was no recycling.

00:06:04.560 I called the EPA.

00:06:05.780 I asked them, how do you start a recycling center?

00:06:07.460 They said, it cannot be done where you are.

00:06:09.140 So, that stimulated the heck out of me.

00:06:10.680 I'm a business person and I love entrepreneurship.

00:06:13.420 So, I figured out a way to make recycling happen.

00:06:16.040 In about three months, we were recycling about 5% of the entire solid waste stream of 30 towns

00:06:22.800 around a town that I started this in.

00:06:25.640 I did so in a shoestring and built it into a very successful business almost instantly.

00:06:31.200 And about a year and a half later, I sold the business because a conventional rubbish

00:06:35.140 hauler had seen this can be done, wanted the branding of recycling.

00:06:38.600 And so, I sold the business and I was hitchhiking back in a November day.

00:06:42.480 This is the introductory paragraph in my book.

00:06:45.440 I was hitchhiking back in a cold November day.

00:06:47.460 It was spitting snow.

00:06:49.260 And I was cold.

00:06:50.440 I was dressed in goodwill clothing.

00:06:52.540 And I looked like a bum on the side of the road because that's the way I dressed.

00:06:56.480 I was not into materialism.

00:06:58.000 I couldn't get a ride because I didn't believe in having a car and I could not get a ride

00:07:02.020 back to my house a few miles away.

00:07:03.900 And I decided, I watched all the gleaning new cars come by with working heaters and well-dressed

00:07:11.060 people inside and decided that my voluntary simplicity lifestyle was too painful for me.

00:07:19.300 So, I switched sides and I became an entrepreneur.

00:07:24.660 And like I said, I started a number of businesses and I discovered that no matter how successful

00:07:30.360 I was at doing things, at getting money, at getting recognition, at accomplishing stuff

00:07:35.260 that there was in me, and this is my psychology, I discovered there were these unmet needs that

00:07:41.080 no matter what I did, no matter how high I set my goals and no matter how well I achieved

00:07:45.980 them, I was always wanting.

00:07:48.540 I always wanted more.

00:07:49.940 So, I began researching this and it led to five years of research that resulted in the

00:07:54.900 book.

00:07:56.060 And I don't claim or state that every American is subject to these motivations, but I have

00:08:02.540 found, this is the research in the book, that about a third of Americans, due to human

00:08:07.840 nature, the human body, the human brain, and what's unique about America, the United States

00:08:12.400 of America, makes about a third of us susceptible to this set of problems and challenges ahead

00:08:22.560 of my own life.

00:08:23.360 So, yes, this book came out of my personal experience.

00:08:26.100 So, you call it over-success sort of a pathological drive for success, but what happens when you have

00:08:31.980 that pathological drive?

00:08:32.840 Does it lead to depression, addiction, alcohol?

00:08:36.020 I mean, what are the ills that come with being so driven for recognition, money, material goods?

00:08:43.940 Well, one of the things that comes out of failing to achieve goals for yourself that are unattainable,

00:08:54.840 the pathological pursuit of unattainable goals, one of the things that come out of that is

00:08:59.060 you poison your brain's reward system.

00:09:02.340 I'll explain that in a moment.

00:09:03.180 And it's possible that one, in doing this, can become depressed, and one can degrade one's own life.

00:09:11.760 Let's start with a little bit of brain science.

00:09:14.360 We have a reward system in our brain.

00:09:17.140 All creatures that move have a reward system, and it's been changed by evolution over the millennia.

00:09:27.480 Even single-celled creatures that crawl have a reward system that directs them to things that are good

00:09:36.920 or likely to be good for that creature and directs them away from things that are not good

00:09:41.600 or likely not to be good for that creature.

00:09:43.960 Your reward system looks at this whole panoply of things that you can do for yourself,

00:09:49.460 whether it's getting some more sex, getting more money, getting more food, doing something exciting,

00:09:54.640 doing something novel.

00:09:55.760 All of these things drive human behavior, and this reward system sorts through all these exposures that we have

00:10:06.100 and helps us determine automatically which of these things we're going to pursue.

00:10:12.360 And this reward system operates, and this is a bit oversimplified,

00:10:18.360 but this reward system in our brain terminates in part in this part of our brain called the nucleus accumbens.

00:10:23.960 And the last stage of the reward system is a surge in release of dopamine in the brain,

00:10:31.460 which is picked up by five different receptors in this area of the brain

00:10:35.520 that determine for us what direction we should go in

00:10:40.840 and how rewarding a behavior is expected to be.

00:10:47.440 Now, we can poison that reward system.

00:10:53.120 Some people poison it through addictions.

00:10:57.200 Some people are prone to addiction.

00:10:58.920 About a quarter of Americans are addicted to at least one substance or behavior.

00:11:03.100 When you're addicted to a substance or behavior, you begin seeking out that substance or behavior,

00:11:11.600 and it culminates in a fanatic desire to do nothing but get more money or get more of that substance or that behavior.

00:11:20.580 And over time, you poison the reward system,

00:11:23.600 diminishing its response to pleasurable or likely-to-be-pleasurable activities or inputs.

00:11:31.500 So, making you less sensitive to rewarding things.

00:11:36.140 So, another thing that can poison the reward system,

00:11:38.800 because human beings are rewarded by attention.

00:11:43.160 It's very clear that that same part of the reward system that lights up dopamine

00:11:47.500 is released with the expectation of having good sex or having a wonderful meal

00:11:51.920 or a stimulating experience or something novel and exciting.

00:11:56.280 Being recognized and viewed by others is rewarding to that same portions of that same reward system.

00:12:05.740 So, if one is frustrated in getting these rewards,

00:12:18.320 particularly the attention reward, the status reward that I talk about in the book,

00:12:22.480 over time, the brain's reward system is poison,

00:12:27.040 but making it less susceptible to naturally occurring rewards.

00:12:31.200 The status research was just fascinating to me,

00:12:34.820 because you also relate to how it relates to problems that men are facing today.

00:12:42.260 What role, I mean, what's the dopamine, or is it not dopamine, it's serotonin, right?

00:12:48.140 It's the neurotransmitter.

00:12:49.840 Yeah, that's a different neurotransmitter,

00:12:51.880 and I didn't spend a lot of time exploring that in the book,

00:12:54.940 and I don't intend this book to be a brain science book,

00:12:58.700 but I wanted to explore just a portion of the reward pathway

00:13:02.660 to show that the science, up to the time I was working on this book,

00:13:07.460 was showing you the reward system can be injured by addictions,

00:13:12.700 by frustration in one's effort to reach unattainable goals,

00:13:18.500 and in what I call status insults or status deceit.

00:13:21.680 So, for example, they've researched rats and mice.

00:13:25.100 If you take a mouse, a low-status mouse,

00:13:29.220 and all mammals have an inherent status rank,

00:13:33.980 if you put mice in a group, they'll sort out,

00:13:37.360 there'll be dominant mice and subordinate mice. 0.99

00:13:40.040 And if you take a subordinate mouse,

00:13:41.840 an actually occurring subordinate mouse,

00:13:44.380 and put it in a cage with a dominant mouse for 10 minutes a day, once a day,

00:13:49.160 and the dominant mouse elicits certain behaviors,

00:13:53.180 and the subordinate mouse,

00:13:54.680 if you do that for 10 minutes a day,

00:13:56.800 the subordinate mouse, after approximately a week or two,

00:14:00.760 scientists call that mouse defeated.

00:14:04.040 The mouse will switch its behavior pattern

00:14:06.560 to become more likely to hide in corners,

00:14:10.700 less likely to engage in the swim test,

00:14:14.460 where it would swim across some water to get food,

00:14:17.160 or to get to a different location in a cage.

00:14:19.980 So, mice and human beings can be defeated

00:14:22.660 by excessive exposure to status superiors,

00:14:27.420 or be socially defeated,

00:14:30.220 or suffer status deceit

00:14:32.160 by failing to achieve goals,

00:14:36.600 again, unattainable goals,

00:14:38.620 or being under-recognized, under-appreciated.

00:14:41.800 This gets into politically controversial territory,

00:14:44.840 but men and women are different.

00:14:46.580 We can look at our bodies,

00:14:48.480 we have different bodies,

00:14:49.940 and it follows,

00:14:51.880 and it's been proven to be so by science,

00:14:53.860 and again, it's politically incorrect to talk about this,

00:14:55.820 but men and women have different brains,

00:14:57.940 and different psychological functions,

00:15:00.160 and bottom line,

00:15:01.060 men are more sensitive to status defeat,

00:15:04.300 as I've described it,

00:15:05.800 than women. 0.99

00:15:06.180 If you look at,

00:15:08.380 and this is some data about,

00:15:12.860 this is eight weeks after conception,

00:15:17.300 a male boy,

00:15:21.060 eight weeks after conception,

00:15:23.100 the body is flooded with testosterone

00:15:25.400 at about twice the levels

00:15:27.020 that a boy is exposed to during adolescence,

00:15:29.180 and it alters the structure of brain development

00:15:34.160 as the child is growing,

00:15:35.640 and you can see differences in boys and girls,

00:15:40.100 even before they can possibly have any sexual role models

00:15:43.420 imprinted upon them.

00:15:44.360 Boys, young boys,

00:15:46.400 very, very young,

00:15:47.620 attention and gaze is directed at machines.

00:15:51.320 Men and boys are interested in systems and machines.

00:15:54.300 The girls are attracted,

00:15:55.540 and this is girls very young,

00:15:56.980 before any kind of sexual imprinting could possibly take place.

00:16:00.120 Science has shown this to be the case.

00:16:01.320 The girls will look at faces.

00:16:03.500 So girls are good at reading faces, 1.00

00:16:07.660 at social interaction.

00:16:09.760 Males, boys, 0.56

00:16:10.980 are good at systems thinking,

00:16:13.360 good at building stuff.

00:16:15.720 The body,

00:16:16.220 the male body is bigger.

00:16:17.420 The male was built over time.

00:16:19.320 The male has,

00:16:21.060 in almost every case,

00:16:22.740 been primarily engaged in warfare.

00:16:24.420 So if you look at current data,

00:16:29.440 this grows out of the difference

00:16:30.800 between the male and the female brains. 0.59

00:16:32.980 If you look at men, 0.65

00:16:34.180 they're more prone to drug addiction for pleasure.

00:16:37.200 There's about two to three times

00:16:39.280 greater drug addiction prevalence

00:16:43.120 among males than females.

00:16:44.760 It's about four times for alcohol.

00:16:47.540 The male brains have more of those

00:16:49.140 dopamine receptor neurons

00:16:50.980 than female brains. 1.00

00:16:52.100 So all of this, 0.59

00:16:54.180 and it's a lengthy chapter in this book,

00:16:56.060 but all of this leads to the male brain 0.99

00:16:58.260 being more reward sensitive,

00:17:01.060 more sensitive to rank and status,

00:17:03.440 more sensitive to rank and status,

00:17:06.100 relative rank and status in the world.

00:17:09.220 I think you even mentioned

00:17:10.520 how they've done tests

00:17:11.620 where they'll expose men and women

00:17:14.200 to status defeats.

00:17:16.120 They'll create some sort of experiment

00:17:17.820 where they do that.

00:17:18.440 And in the women, 0.99

00:17:19.960 they don't really have much of a response.

00:17:23.220 But in the men,

00:17:24.760 cortisol floods the body.

00:17:27.340 There's parts of the brain that light up

00:17:29.740 that don't light up in women's bodies. 1.00

00:17:32.300 So yeah,

00:17:32.680 like you were saying,

00:17:33.400 that the men are,

00:17:35.220 I guess,

00:17:36.980 wired for being very,

00:17:38.740 very sensitive to status.

00:17:41.720 To status defeat.

00:17:42.780 No,

00:17:43.080 this is not to say that

00:17:44.220 men and women are all,

00:17:45.820 all men are one way 1.00

00:17:48.560 and all women are the other way. 1.00

00:17:49.680 This is a spectrum of behaviors across,

00:17:51.840 but it's more likely that a male

00:17:53.880 will be more sensitive to status defeat,

00:17:56.700 more sensitive to his rank

00:17:58.920 within his group or society

00:18:00.720 than a typical female. 0.97

00:18:03.620 But there can be females 0.99

00:18:05.000 that are more sensitive to status rank,

00:18:07.400 more interested in power,

00:18:09.380 power relationships than males.

00:18:11.260 So these are tendencies

00:18:14.140 across the spectrum of human behavior.

00:18:16.520 But it does lead to men,

00:18:19.180 as I mentioned,

00:18:19.800 being more sensitive

00:18:21.040 to status failure,

00:18:23.300 to status defeat.

00:18:24.780 And we've also seen changes in America

00:18:26.740 that has aggravated this.

00:18:28.020 And we'll keep talking about males here

00:18:29.440 versus females. 0.77

00:18:31.680 Before about 1970 in America,

00:18:34.020 after World War II,

00:18:35.140 the male was typically the breadwinner.

00:18:36.980 We had a lot of jobs for breadwinners.

00:18:39.860 Typically, the male would go out and work

00:18:42.140 and be able to support an entire family.

00:18:44.540 Now, since that time,

00:18:46.400 in the past 40 years,

00:18:48.240 the bottom 80% of men,

00:18:50.560 and this is by income,

00:18:51.760 the bottom 80% of men

00:18:53.520 have seen their wages decline

00:18:56.540 as we've shifted from labor

00:18:58.960 to professions demanding intelligence

00:19:02.080 and social skills.

00:19:03.000 And yet,

00:19:04.440 women over this past 40 years

00:19:07.340 have seen their incomes go up 33%.

00:19:10.040 Now, there was a disparity

00:19:11.880 between men and women 0.90

00:19:14.020 in the 1970s.

00:19:16.860 That gap is closing.

00:19:18.560 But this is fairly recent data.

00:19:20.460 Over the past 10 years,

00:19:21.600 if you have a man and a woman

00:19:23.620 never married,

00:19:24.960 no children,

00:19:25.700 in their 30s to 40s,

00:19:28.180 they now earn

00:19:29.360 about the same amount.

00:19:31.100 The wage gap is closed

00:19:32.380 between the sexes in America

00:19:34.440 for never married,

00:19:36.420 childless men and women.

00:19:39.720 So, men have seen

00:19:41.160 their income status drop.

00:19:43.380 This is the bottom 80% of men by income, 0.66

00:19:45.460 and women go up 1.00

00:19:46.720 due to the changes in our economy.

00:19:48.280 So, males have less

00:19:51.820 of the traditional awards

00:19:53.180 that have come

00:19:55.260 with those breadwinner roles

00:19:56.820 as the economy has changed.

00:19:59.900 So, number one,

00:20:00.500 men are inherently more sensitive

00:20:01.880 to rank to questions,

00:20:05.780 and the economy has,

00:20:07.080 in essence,

00:20:08.060 aggravated,

00:20:08.520 the American economy

00:20:09.280 has aggravated this problem

00:20:11.820 uniquely for men.

00:20:12.980 And it doesn't mean

00:20:13.500 that women are affected by this,

00:20:15.080 but just on average

00:20:16.380 across the whole spectrum

00:20:18.080 of behavior and people,

00:20:19.900 these changes have been,

00:20:22.560 in general,

00:20:23.880 more adverse for men.

00:20:25.000 The shift from

00:20:25.600 a manufacturing economy

00:20:26.780 to an intelligence

00:20:27.980 and social skills

00:20:29.280 based economy.

00:20:31.020 Well, you've served

00:20:32.040 in public office

00:20:33.000 and you've run

00:20:33.780 for public office,

00:20:35.660 and how does that,

00:20:37.840 how does this shift

00:20:38.820 where men are no longer

00:20:40.500 breadwinners,

00:20:42.260 is that going to have,

00:20:43.320 is that having

00:20:44.240 and will that have

00:20:45.380 long-term implications

00:20:47.880 for our society

00:20:49.920 and our country

00:20:50.500 as a whole?

00:20:53.540 Definitely so.

00:20:54.740 When the women's movement 1.00

00:20:56.140 really began

00:20:56.740 in the younger part

00:20:57.640 of my life

00:20:58.060 in the 70s,

00:20:59.460 society was called upon

00:21:02.120 and did

00:21:02.660 and is paying attention

00:21:04.000 to problems

00:21:04.960 unique to women.

00:21:05.620 And it's really

00:21:06.460 at the point now

00:21:07.480 where we have to

00:21:08.080 begin paying

00:21:09.220 serious attention

00:21:10.320 to problems

00:21:11.100 that are unique to men.

00:21:12.660 and we can see data

00:21:14.120 showing how serious

00:21:15.080 this is for,

00:21:16.560 if you look at data

00:21:17.700 related to whites,

00:21:20.880 not in school,

00:21:23.180 young men

00:21:23.820 between, say,

00:21:24.820 18 and 24,

00:21:26.040 if you look at this data,

00:21:26.740 you see this spike

00:21:27.800 over the past

00:21:28.620 20 years,

00:21:29.700 20 and 30 years,

00:21:31.200 in rootless,

00:21:32.820 disconnected men

00:21:34.720 who don't have

00:21:36.220 specific roles

00:21:37.500 in the economy

00:21:38.200 or society.

00:21:39.460 They're hanging out,

00:21:40.700 not being productive,

00:21:42.060 not fulfilling themselves.

00:21:43.860 And this stems

00:21:45.260 from the change

00:21:46.460 in the kind of jobs

00:21:47.440 available,

00:21:48.120 the kind of economy

00:21:48.800 we have right now.

00:21:49.680 It's important

00:21:50.360 for policymakers

00:21:51.020 and myself

00:21:52.180 when I was in office,

00:21:52.960 I was attuned to this

00:21:54.360 as much as I could,

00:21:55.760 the need to pay

00:21:56.900 policy attention

00:21:57.720 to these questions.

00:21:59.180 It relates to,

00:22:00.900 if you look at data

00:22:01.880 in higher education,

00:22:04.440 you see women

00:22:06.020 pushing 60%

00:22:07.600 of college attendees

00:22:09.160 now,

00:22:09.660 and college graduates

00:22:10.520 are now females

00:22:11.620 compared to men.

00:22:13.760 So we have to pay

00:22:15.740 attention to

00:22:16.460 the need to shift

00:22:17.520 the way our education

00:22:19.360 system works

00:22:21.160 with men versus women.

00:22:24.280 It's one thing

00:22:25.200 that needs to be done.

00:22:26.960 Yeah, I was,

00:22:28.180 a few months ago,

00:22:29.180 I was talking

00:22:29.580 to a relationship expert

00:22:30.760 who had her PhD

00:22:33.380 and she claimed

00:22:36.920 to be a feminist. 1.00

00:22:37.580 She called herself

00:22:37.940 a feminist

00:22:38.340 and she even said

00:22:39.340 that this shift

00:22:40.640 that's happening,

00:22:41.440 it's really disrupting

00:22:43.240 marriage

00:22:44.540 because while men,

00:22:48.240 while women are still, 1.00

00:22:49.580 while they're advancing

00:22:50.280 in the workplace,

00:22:51.000 they would still rather

00:22:52.520 prefer to marry a man 0.98

00:22:53.780 who makes more money

00:22:54.920 than them.

00:22:55.460 That's what the statistics

00:22:56.280 are showing.

00:22:57.540 But when fewer,

00:22:58.640 when there's not men,

00:23:00.380 when more and more men

00:23:01.160 are doing worse

00:23:02.040 in the workplace,

00:23:03.820 there are fewer

00:23:04.580 and fewer

00:23:05.180 eligible bachelors,

00:23:07.640 so to speak.

00:23:08.560 And this could have

00:23:09.920 long-term implications

00:23:10.960 on a lot of things

00:23:12.140 on a societal level

00:23:12.900 when it comes to

00:23:13.620 things like

00:23:14.620 our welfare,

00:23:16.900 you know,

00:23:17.160 welfare system

00:23:17.980 which is based on

00:23:18.820 us having,

00:23:20.040 continuing to have children

00:23:20.920 and if we

00:23:21.420 have a decrease

00:23:23.060 in demographics

00:23:24.360 that can affect

00:23:25.040 a whole wide range

00:23:26.160 of things.

00:23:26.860 Right.

00:23:28.720 It's very well known

00:23:30.160 that, you know,

00:23:32.100 healthy families

00:23:32.840 need a man

00:23:35.500 and a woman,

00:23:36.180 a husband and wife.

00:23:37.880 I'm fine with gay marriage

00:23:39.260 so it could be

00:23:39.800 two men

00:23:40.440 but typically

00:23:41.140 it'll be a husband

00:23:41.740 and wife

00:23:42.200 rearing a child

00:23:43.360 and because we're

00:23:44.980 having this growing

00:23:45.800 population of young 1.00

00:23:47.460 loser men 0.99

00:23:48.320 and what I mean 0.99

00:23:48.780 by losers 0.95

00:23:49.300 is people who are 0.96

00:23:50.060 not in school,

00:23:51.380 not productively employed,

00:23:52.780 it's a growing fraction

00:23:53.800 of young white men

00:23:55.300 fall into this category

00:23:57.900 and women

00:23:59.400 who are seeking

00:24:00.700 to sustain

00:24:01.780 a healthy role

00:24:03.160 in the economy

00:24:03.660 are not attracted

00:24:05.240 to an economic loser

00:24:06.560 and it is causing

00:24:08.320 that is one component

00:24:10.240 of the cause

00:24:10.880 of a delay

00:24:11.480 and a reduction

00:24:12.760 in initial marriages

00:24:14.120 and that's not

00:24:15.740 healthy for society.

00:24:17.260 As you mentioned,

00:24:18.360 you need to have

00:24:19.100 babies born

00:24:20.040 in a country

00:24:21.520 so there's a natural flow

00:24:23.820 from young to old

00:24:25.100 and so we don't run

00:24:26.560 into the problem

00:24:27.120 that Japan is happening 0.88

00:24:28.080 where you have

00:24:28.540 this rapidly aging

00:24:30.160 population

00:24:30.820 with young people

00:24:32.360 not wanting

00:24:32.980 to form families

00:24:33.900 with women

00:24:35.200 not wanting

00:24:35.720 to marry men 0.75

00:24:36.420 and young people

00:24:39.660 not being born.

00:24:41.340 Yeah.

00:24:41.760 So you talk about

00:24:43.320 how over-success

00:24:44.340 is this pathological

00:24:46.140 drive for unattainable goals

00:24:47.840 which raises the question

00:24:49.660 how did we get

00:24:51.280 these unattainable goals?

00:24:54.220 Right?

00:24:54.360 Like why do we have

00:24:55.220 these unattainable goals now?

00:24:56.800 Was there a time

00:24:57.660 in our country's history

00:24:58.740 where we had

00:25:00.140 a little bit more modesty

00:25:01.280 about what we were capable

00:25:02.940 of accomplishing

00:25:04.380 or did something happen

00:25:06.820 where the limits

00:25:09.680 became pretty much endless

00:25:12.320 for what we could achieve

00:25:14.060 in life?

00:25:15.780 Yeah.

00:25:16.100 There has been a change

00:25:17.560 and again

00:25:17.980 this is in one measure

00:25:21.200 caused by the kind of media

00:25:22.860 that forms the groups

00:25:25.900 that we inhabit psychologically.

00:25:28.400 If you look back

00:25:29.440 through human history

00:25:30.280 this is going back

00:25:31.080 to hunter-gatherers

00:25:32.400 and up until

00:25:33.440 fairly recently

00:25:34.860 the average group

00:25:38.620 that we inhabited

00:25:40.220 the people we related to

00:25:42.040 we related to these people

00:25:43.220 face-to-face

00:25:44.040 these groups were stable

00:25:46.720 they could be a tribe

00:25:48.900 a hunter-gatherer tribe

00:25:50.120 they could be a village

00:25:51.300 in classic New England

00:25:54.700 but the people

00:25:56.380 with whom we related

00:25:57.280 we knew for our entire life

00:25:59.440 those relationships

00:26:00.360 were stable

00:26:01.060 people had a very good sense

00:26:03.120 of one another's roles

00:26:04.780 and in these smaller groups

00:26:06.440 the number in the dozens

00:26:08.720 or a small number of hundreds

00:26:10.380 in these smaller groups

00:26:11.880 everyone

00:26:12.600 regardless of their capacity

00:26:14.140 had

00:26:14.720 almost everyone

00:26:16.040 had some kind of role

00:26:17.440 that was valuable

00:26:18.460 for the group

00:26:19.140 they did something

00:26:20.360 group hierarchies

00:26:21.820 were selected

00:26:22.420 again face-to-face

00:26:23.860 often in small groups

00:26:25.700 like this

00:26:26.200 leaders were selected

00:26:27.520 by consensus

00:26:28.240 from the bottom up

00:26:29.240 as opposed to

00:26:29.920 being imposed

00:26:30.760 by a boss

00:26:31.880 from above

00:26:32.300 and as society changed

00:26:34.640 and as we moved away

00:26:35.600 from small groups

00:26:36.620 the group

00:26:38.900 that we now inhabit

00:26:40.100 and this is

00:26:40.720 partly due to

00:26:42.540 globalization

00:26:43.200 in large measure

00:26:44.600 it's due to the kind of

00:26:45.620 media that we spend

00:26:47.440 hours looking at

00:26:48.380 the average American

00:26:49.380 spends eight hours a day

00:26:50.900 looking at screens

00:26:51.840 people still spend

00:26:53.540 four hours a day

00:26:54.620 looking at television

00:26:55.620 retired people in America

00:26:56.900 pushing over eight hours a day

00:26:58.520 watching TV

00:26:59.120 we're now

00:27:00.540 we're now inhabiting

00:27:01.980 a psychological group

00:27:03.460 in the billions

00:27:04.680 I estimate the number

00:27:06.160 being two billion

00:27:07.080 as the people

00:27:08.160 on the earth

00:27:09.040 who inhabit

00:27:09.860 this world

00:27:11.200 where

00:27:12.860 we spend

00:27:14.200 hours a day

00:27:15.040 looking at people

00:27:15.920 who are more beautiful

00:27:16.860 richer

00:27:17.540 more famous

00:27:18.460 more talented

00:27:19.540 than we are

00:27:21.320 not only that

00:27:21.920 when these people

00:27:22.660 are on television

00:27:23.280 or on media

00:27:23.800 they often have

00:27:24.940 a battery of publicists

00:27:26.120 and retouching

00:27:27.040 digital retouch artists

00:27:28.200 making them even more

00:27:29.520 perfect than they actually are

00:27:30.660 so the people

00:27:31.280 with whom

00:27:32.220 and against whom

00:27:33.300 we compare ourselves

00:27:34.480 in order to determine

00:27:35.580 our rank

00:27:36.200 we're no longer

00:27:37.240 looking at a small group

00:27:38.400 that might be a village

00:27:39.320 or a tribe

00:27:39.900 we're looking at

00:27:40.920 the brightest

00:27:42.840 the most famous

00:27:43.980 the most successful

00:27:44.980 the most talented

00:27:45.920 the most well trained

00:27:47.080 people

00:27:47.920 that the earth

00:27:49.180 can produce

00:27:50.000 and

00:27:50.360 human beings

00:27:52.380 have become

00:27:53.560 phenomenal

00:27:54.420 at attaining

00:27:55.960 remarkable

00:27:56.380 look at the women's 1.00

00:27:57.460 soccer team

00:27:58.460 that just won

00:27:59.220 here for America

00:28:00.020 the extent

00:28:01.460 of training

00:28:02.260 and selection

00:28:03.040 that members

00:28:04.220 of that team

00:28:05.240 go through

00:28:05.920 to get to that point

00:28:06.900 is phenomenal

00:28:08.220 so the sorting process

00:28:10.560 the sifting

00:28:11.180 and sorting process

00:28:12.200 that we go through

00:28:13.760 in America

00:28:14.300 to select

00:28:14.980 our most recognized

00:28:17.060 people

00:28:17.560 is more intense

00:28:18.780 than it has

00:28:19.860 than it has been

00:28:21.380 throughout most of

00:28:22.640 human history

00:28:23.680 most of human

00:28:24.540 evolutionary history

00:28:25.460 so we're comparing

00:28:26.780 ourselves

00:28:27.320 to people

00:28:28.820 that we can't

00:28:30.700 possibly emulate

00:28:31.800 if we're realistic

00:28:32.840 about it

00:28:33.460 and this causes

00:28:34.580 to some people

00:28:36.060 who are

00:28:36.720 this is not everyone

00:28:37.880 but that fraction

00:28:39.000 of human beings

00:28:40.060 and Americans

00:28:40.560 who are sensitive

00:28:41.160 to this

00:28:41.500 it causes

00:28:42.320 some of us

00:28:43.520 who are sensitive

00:28:44.040 to this

00:28:44.580 to suffer

00:28:45.180 status defeat

00:28:46.120 simply as a result

00:28:47.780 of being forced

00:28:49.180 to compare ourselves

00:28:50.100 to people like that

00:28:50.900 and you see this

00:28:51.560 in the checkout counter

00:28:52.760 as you're walking

00:28:53.240 through your supermarket

00:28:53.980 look at the covers

00:28:55.120 of the tabloids

00:28:55.980 look at typically

00:28:57.140 the people you see

00:28:58.360 they're gorgeous

00:28:59.220 they're famous

00:28:59.920 they're rich

00:29:00.600 they're successful

00:29:01.280 why can't I be like that

00:29:02.900 when did

00:29:03.980 oh go ahead

00:29:05.640 yeah

00:29:07.020 I was going to ask you

00:29:07.700 when was Oversuccess

00:29:09.040 originally published

00:29:11.240 2009

00:29:13.920 early 2009

00:29:15.820 my data

00:29:17.480 yeah

00:29:18.180 this was before

00:29:18.880 like the big

00:29:19.980 social media

00:29:20.720 explosion

00:29:21.520 and I think

00:29:22.200 that like

00:29:23.040 with Facebook

00:29:23.720 and Twitter

00:29:24.320 and Instagram

00:29:25.340 for example

00:29:27.200 I think

00:29:27.500 may have just

00:29:28.160 compounded

00:29:28.940 what you just

00:29:29.360 talked about

00:29:29.940 even made it

00:29:31.460 more cute

00:29:32.320 and more tense

00:29:33.300 yeah

00:29:34.580 well Facebook

00:29:35.120 was certainly

00:29:35.880 around at that time

00:29:36.620 and I spend time

00:29:37.420 talking about it

00:29:38.140 people

00:29:38.980 people who

00:29:39.560 apologists

00:29:40.360 for the system

00:29:40.840 say well

00:29:41.240 Facebook groups

00:29:42.520 and communities

00:29:43.240 are a good

00:29:44.820 substitute

00:29:45.340 for face-to-face

00:29:46.640 communities

00:29:47.320 and that is

00:29:47.920 absolutely not true

00:29:49.100 anyone who

00:29:49.740 participates in

00:29:50.760 Facebook

00:29:51.100 Facebook

00:29:51.460 it's easy to enter

00:29:53.560 it's easy to exit

00:29:54.900 you may never see

00:29:56.180 that person

00:29:56.700 face-to-face

00:29:57.540 the reputations

00:29:59.240 of people

00:30:00.220 their trustworthiness

00:30:01.280 is determined

00:30:02.180 is sometimes

00:30:04.080 undeterminable

00:30:04.940 healthy

00:30:06.080 human communities

00:30:07.540 in which

00:30:08.760 ordinary people

00:30:10.640 have roles

00:30:11.580 that are satisfying

00:30:12.620 and satisfy

00:30:13.920 their need

00:30:14.580 for status

00:30:15.200 their need

00:30:15.700 for recognition

00:30:16.380 these groups

00:30:17.520 typically

00:30:18.120 if you look

00:30:19.200 throughout human history

00:30:20.000 these groups

00:30:20.480 typically are

00:30:21.140 in the range

00:30:21.760 of 100

00:30:22.140 or 200 people

00:30:23.100 and you

00:30:24.400 are with

00:30:25.480 members of that group

00:30:26.360 for your entire lifetime

00:30:27.420 so you know

00:30:28.800 who can be trusted

00:30:29.580 you know who's good

00:30:30.420 and who's not so good

00:30:31.540 at various

00:30:32.080 tasks

00:30:33.340 and also

00:30:34.120 as I mentioned

00:30:34.700 there are roles

00:30:35.860 for almost everyone

00:30:36.800 in that group

00:30:37.600 valuable

00:30:38.340 valued roles

00:30:39.420 for almost everyone

00:30:40.120 so Facebook

00:30:42.080 and social media

00:30:43.320 is not a substitute

00:30:45.280 for long-term

00:30:47.340 stable

00:30:48.140 face-to-face

00:30:49.300 relationships

00:30:50.200 I'm curious

00:30:52.120 if you

00:30:53.000 if there's any connection

00:30:54.280 to

00:30:55.780 some of these

00:30:57.020 mass shootings

00:30:58.280 that we've had

00:30:58.740 in our country

00:30:59.280 because one thing

00:31:00.200 I've noticed

00:31:00.700 some of them

00:31:01.260 are some of these

00:31:01.980 they're usually males

00:31:03.140 always men 1.00

00:31:04.400 who do this

00:31:05.680 and one thing

00:31:06.780 I've always noticed

00:31:07.220 they typically

00:31:07.820 write a manifesto

00:31:09.180 of some sort

00:31:10.120 before they

00:31:10.720 take part

00:31:11.440 and they'll explain

00:31:12.380 why they're doing this

00:31:13.960 and oftentimes

00:31:14.940 it's just filled

00:31:16.140 with

00:31:16.660 just writings

00:31:18.420 about how they feel

00:31:19.100 like they're not

00:31:19.560 respected

00:31:20.140 and that

00:31:21.440 people aren't

00:31:22.380 respecting the way

00:31:23.080 they think

00:31:23.460 they should be

00:31:23.940 respected

00:31:24.360 and then after

00:31:24.920 they do this

00:31:25.620 then they will

00:31:26.400 be known

00:31:26.940 and be respected

00:31:27.740 and get the respect

00:31:28.540 they think

00:31:29.780 they are entitled

00:31:31.120 to

00:31:31.360 is status defeat

00:31:33.400 connected

00:31:33.980 somehow to that

00:31:35.100 or are they

00:31:35.920 two completely

00:31:37.040 different issues

00:31:37.760 I attempt

00:31:39.720 to make that case

00:31:40.440 in the book

00:31:41.300 my data ended

00:31:42.800 in about

00:31:43.700 2007

00:31:44.580 2008

00:31:45.240 but if you look

00:31:47.940 at them

00:31:48.160 this is still

00:31:48.840 true today

00:31:49.440 males are 0.99

00:31:50.660 responsible

00:31:51.320 for at least

00:31:52.520 80% of all

00:31:53.540 violent crimes

00:31:54.360 the question

00:31:55.060 has to be asked

00:31:56.040 why is it

00:31:56.980 that it's almost

00:31:57.720 always males 0.94

00:31:59.280 perpetrating

00:32:00.220 these things

00:32:01.120 and again

00:32:01.440 it comes back

00:32:02.000 to my thesis

00:32:02.540 that males

00:32:03.600 are simply

00:32:04.300 more status

00:32:05.540 sensitive

00:32:05.960 they're more

00:32:06.700 sensitive to

00:32:07.360 status insults

00:32:08.760 than females 0.87

00:32:09.440 it's not that

00:32:10.060 females are not 1.00

00:32:11.280 subjected to these

00:32:12.040 pressures

00:32:12.320 80% of females

00:32:13.400 in America

00:32:14.080 don't like their

00:32:14.640 own bodies

00:32:15.160 as a result

00:32:16.040 of this media

00:32:16.680 pressure

00:32:17.100 that females 1.00

00:32:17.780 are putting

00:32:18.080 these unattainable

00:32:19.560 goals

00:32:19.920 to have this

00:32:20.440 idealized

00:32:22.400 quote unquote

00:32:23.020 perfect body

00:32:24.060 so females 1.00

00:32:25.260 are also

00:32:25.860 subjected to this

00:32:26.620 pressure

00:32:26.860 but the female 1.00

00:32:27.540 brain

00:32:28.200 responds

00:32:29.220 differently

00:32:29.880 to this

00:32:30.640 kind of

00:32:30.920 status insult

00:32:31.660 than the

00:32:32.280 male brain

00:32:32.720 does

00:32:33.060 so what are

00:32:34.600 the solutions

00:32:35.200 whenever these

00:32:36.700 sort of

00:32:37.440 shootings happen

00:32:39.160 or whenever

00:32:39.540 the travesty

00:32:40.200 happens

00:32:40.500 or whenever

00:32:40.880 we talk

00:32:41.280 about

00:32:41.500 there's always

00:32:42.480 sort of

00:32:42.700 these trite

00:32:43.220 responses

00:32:43.660 about well

00:32:44.140 the men

00:32:44.540 just need

00:32:44.860 to get

00:32:45.180 used to

00:32:45.700 this new

00:32:46.960 system

00:32:47.420 is that

00:32:49.480 the appropriate

00:32:50.100 response

00:32:50.600 or is there

00:32:51.000 something else

00:32:51.500 that we should

00:32:52.160 do

00:32:52.900 to

00:32:53.620 handle this

00:32:55.740 absolutely

00:32:56.260 not

00:32:56.680 absolutely

00:32:57.180 not

00:32:57.480 if we're

00:32:57.920 talking about

00:32:58.400 school shootings

00:32:59.040 first of all

00:33:00.380 I don't believe

00:33:00.860 that taking

00:33:01.300 guns away

00:33:01.880 will help

00:33:02.540 anything

00:33:02.880 I'm myself

00:33:03.960 back

00:33:04.980 arming

00:33:05.900 a trained

00:33:06.840 certified

00:33:07.340 individual

00:33:07.880 in schools

00:33:08.400 and we've

00:33:08.960 seen

00:33:09.240 that these

00:33:10.140 acts of school

00:33:10.900 violence can be

00:33:11.840 mitigated

00:33:12.500 reduced

00:33:13.100 and nipped

00:33:15.220 in the bud

00:33:15.640 earlier

00:33:16.160 when there is

00:33:17.480 a trained

00:33:17.980 person

00:33:18.700 in the school

00:33:19.600 but there are

00:33:20.120 clearly things

00:33:21.260 we need to do

00:33:22.000 to help

00:33:22.740 and again

00:33:23.100 it's primarily

00:33:23.780 young boys

00:33:25.060 who are

00:33:26.980 subjected

00:33:27.460 to status

00:33:28.000 defeat

00:33:28.380 often as a

00:33:29.240 result of

00:33:29.720 bullying

00:33:30.000 it could

00:33:30.540 be

00:33:30.800 and it's

00:33:31.660 often

00:33:31.920 boys that

00:33:32.880 have

00:33:33.600 B's and

00:33:34.640 A's 0.55

00:33:34.980 and their

00:33:35.260 grades

00:33:35.560 it's not

00:33:35.960 that they're

00:33:36.220 not smart

00:33:36.800 it's

00:33:38.200 boys that

00:33:39.180 might look

00:33:39.720 or behave

00:33:40.280 odd

00:33:40.660 and we

00:33:41.760 need to be

00:33:43.000 very careful

00:33:44.360 about stopping

00:33:45.500 bullying

00:33:45.860 and finding

00:33:46.840 places

00:33:47.500 where

00:33:49.680 help can be

00:33:50.700 given

00:33:50.960 to people

00:33:51.880 before

00:33:53.980 this kind

00:33:55.620 of violence

00:33:56.060 erupts

00:33:56.500 I advocate

00:33:57.640 in my book

00:33:58.260 that we

00:33:58.900 ought to be

00:33:59.400 ramping up

00:34:00.360 single-sex

00:34:01.880 schools

00:34:02.340 and it

00:34:03.720 should be

00:34:04.000 by choice

00:34:04.600 a parent

00:34:05.040 should not

00:34:05.400 be obligated

00:34:06.440 to send

00:34:06.760 their boy

00:34:07.120 to an

00:34:07.440 all-boys

00:34:07.840 school

00:34:08.160 but there

00:34:08.880 are about

00:34:09.100 500 in

00:34:09.720 the U.S.

00:34:10.100 now we

00:34:10.560 can see

00:34:11.160 that properly

00:34:11.680 managed

00:34:12.180 because boys

00:34:13.820 learn differently

00:34:14.820 than girls 0.63

00:34:15.460 this is

00:34:17.740 again politically

00:34:18.380 incorrect to

00:34:19.400 say that

00:34:19.780 but boys

00:34:20.520 are experiential

00:34:21.460 tangible learners

00:34:22.420 they're spatial

00:34:23.080 learners

00:34:23.460 in general

00:34:24.500 this is not

00:34:25.080 true of

00:34:25.560 everyone

00:34:25.900 girls learn

00:34:26.920 better in

00:34:27.360 the classroom

00:34:27.940 where you

00:34:28.620 sit down

00:34:29.240 and hear

00:34:29.500 lectures

00:34:29.920 just

00:34:31.860 the brains

00:34:32.940 are different

00:34:33.440 on average

00:34:34.420 and again

00:34:35.340 I'm avoiding

00:34:36.460 being politically

00:34:37.100 incorrect here

00:34:37.840 this doesn't

00:34:38.340 apply to

00:34:38.800 every girl

00:34:39.300 and every

00:34:39.640 boy

00:34:39.860 but there

00:34:40.980 should be

00:34:42.360 a greater

00:34:44.120 use

00:34:45.260 of single

00:34:46.520 sex schools

00:34:47.120 for parents

00:34:47.580 who wish

00:34:47.980 their child

00:34:48.640 to be in

00:34:49.020 sex schools

00:34:49.420 got to be

00:34:49.780 one solution

00:34:50.520 dealing with

00:34:51.740 bullying

00:34:52.020 very very

00:34:52.860 important

00:34:53.300 very important

00:34:54.420 that peers

00:34:55.040 if you look

00:34:56.120 at these

00:34:56.380 studies

00:34:56.700 at the

00:34:57.060 school

00:34:57.260 violence

00:34:57.660 you see

00:34:58.080 that in

00:34:58.420 many many

00:34:59.360 cases

00:34:59.720 80%

00:35:00.340 of cases

00:35:00.780 a peer

00:35:01.900 someone who

00:35:02.700 knew

00:35:03.060 the perpetrator

00:35:04.720 knew the

00:35:05.780 precise features

00:35:07.160 of the

00:35:07.840 violence plan

00:35:08.660 before it

00:35:09.780 was executed

00:35:10.440 schools should

00:35:11.540 pay very

00:35:12.320 great attention

00:35:12.940 to encouraging

00:35:14.080 peers to

00:35:15.080 report these

00:35:15.820 things to

00:35:16.660 the teacher

00:35:17.160 or to

00:35:17.520 the school

00:35:17.880 leaders

00:35:18.320 acting in

00:35:21.220 a humane

00:35:21.880 way

00:35:22.300 with people

00:35:23.260 who might

00:35:27.420 have such a

00:35:28.980 plan or plot

00:35:29.660 in mind

00:35:30.160 besides

00:35:32.880 these big

00:35:34.000 policy

00:35:34.600 ideas that

00:35:36.520 we can do

00:35:36.840 to mitigate

00:35:37.820 status defeat

00:35:39.700 and over

00:35:40.040 success

00:35:40.260 what about

00:35:40.800 an individual's

00:35:42.240 own life

00:35:43.220 and maybe

00:35:44.840 there's someone

00:35:45.180 who's out there

00:35:45.620 listening where

00:35:46.080 they feel like

00:35:46.460 they're just

00:35:46.780 frustrated

00:35:47.380 they don't

00:35:47.740 feel like

00:35:48.120 they're at

00:35:49.400 the amount

00:35:49.980 of success

00:35:50.640 or the level

00:35:51.120 of success

00:35:51.480 that they

00:35:51.860 should have

00:35:52.840 are there

00:35:53.720 things that

00:35:54.060 individuals can

00:35:54.700 do that

00:35:55.020 can take

00:35:55.720 the blunt

00:35:57.100 effects of

00:35:58.320 over success

00:35:59.100 yeah absolutely

00:36:00.820 the last chapter

00:36:01.860 of my book

00:36:02.220 has about

00:36:02.620 20 things

00:36:03.580 that we can

00:36:03.920 do

00:36:04.160 about half

00:36:04.700 of them

00:36:05.020 are things

00:36:05.560 that individuals

00:36:06.100 can do

00:36:06.480 the simplest

00:36:07.000 and the first

00:36:07.920 of my bullet

00:36:08.340 points

00:36:08.620 the first

00:36:09.020 of the 20

00:36:09.460 is that people

00:36:10.560 in America

00:36:11.800 and throughout

00:36:12.960 the world

00:36:13.360 but in America

00:36:13.960 here

00:36:14.260 we ought to

00:36:15.060 start being

00:36:15.620 polite

00:36:16.240 and responsive

00:36:17.380 to one another

00:36:17.980 when we're

00:36:18.320 walking down

00:36:18.820 the street

00:36:19.320 nod and

00:36:20.640 smile at the

00:36:21.240 person

00:36:21.540 complete stranger

00:36:22.520 you may never

00:36:23.040 see them again

00:36:23.620 but nod and

00:36:24.220 smile at that

00:36:24.700 person

00:36:24.980 you will

00:36:25.760 brighten that

00:36:26.520 person's day

00:36:27.360 you could

00:36:28.020 change that

00:36:28.580 person's life

00:36:29.340 in a particular

00:36:29.900 time

00:36:30.260 hold the door

00:36:31.080 for someone

00:36:31.520 don't be

00:36:31.980 obnoxious

00:36:32.820 about it

00:36:33.300 you know

00:36:33.840 if someone

00:36:34.140 is within

00:36:34.600 a few

00:36:35.060 five or ten

00:36:35.760 steps of

00:36:36.580 the rear

00:36:37.060 hold the door

00:36:38.000 open for them

00:36:38.560 regardless of

00:36:39.140 how old

00:36:39.660 or young

00:36:40.020 or what

00:36:40.300 sex they 0.98

00:36:40.660 are

00:36:40.800 hold the

00:36:41.340 door for

00:36:41.660 them

00:36:41.880 so

00:36:43.240 be kind

00:36:45.660 say please

00:36:46.460 say thank

00:36:47.080 you

00:36:47.560 chivalrous

00:36:48.580 I see that

00:36:49.180 on your

00:36:49.740 art of

00:36:50.000 manliness

00:36:50.320 website

00:36:50.800 the renewal

00:36:52.900 of male

00:36:55.020 chivalrous

00:36:56.000 roles

00:36:56.440 both sexes

00:36:57.280 ought to do

00:36:57.600 this

00:36:57.800 and again

00:36:58.540 what this

00:36:59.020 does

00:36:59.300 it creates

00:36:59.900 a warm

00:37:03.820 place for

00:37:04.680 people

00:37:05.020 possibly in a

00:37:06.340 moment in their

00:37:06.800 lives when they

00:37:07.380 need this

00:37:07.860 they can

00:37:08.380 make a

00:37:08.660 difference

00:37:08.900 another

00:37:09.340 thing we

00:37:09.740 can do

00:37:10.100 that is

00:37:11.000 personal

00:37:11.780 and this

00:37:12.140 is for

00:37:12.400 ourselves

00:37:12.820 be rational

00:37:14.020 about the

00:37:14.780 goals

00:37:15.200 that we

00:37:15.780 set

00:37:16.080 for ourselves

00:37:17.420 be rational

00:37:17.980 about the

00:37:18.440 goals you

00:37:18.840 select for

00:37:19.240 yourself

00:37:19.520 I use the

00:37:20.520 50% rule 0.69

00:37:21.200 select goals

00:37:22.260 that you're

00:37:22.960 about 50%

00:37:24.160 likely to

00:37:25.160 attain in

00:37:25.700 your life

00:37:26.120 you don't

00:37:26.540 want to

00:37:26.800 select goals

00:37:27.500 that are

00:37:27.740 impossible

00:37:28.160 if you're

00:37:29.040 not good

00:37:29.400 at running

00:37:29.800 don't try

00:37:30.580 to become

00:37:31.020 an Olympic

00:37:31.520 runner

00:37:31.860 it's just

00:37:32.840 going to

00:37:33.460 frustrate

00:37:33.820 you

00:37:34.180 select goals

00:37:35.780 where you

00:37:36.340 have the

00:37:37.120 talents

00:37:37.560 the aptitudes

00:37:38.940 the social

00:37:40.000 networks

00:37:40.540 that are

00:37:41.580 feasible

00:37:41.960 in your

00:37:42.480 own life

00:37:42.920 and don't

00:37:44.060 perpetually

00:37:44.700 set goals

00:37:45.580 that are

00:37:45.780 impossible

00:37:46.200 for yourself

00:37:47.280 30% of

00:37:49.520 American

00:37:49.940 teenagers

00:37:50.960 think they're

00:37:51.640 going to

00:37:51.800 become famous

00:37:52.380 someday

00:37:52.760 and they

00:37:53.280 literally

00:37:53.580 structure

00:37:54.100 their lives

00:37:54.900 and Facebook

00:37:56.340 is a culprit

00:37:57.000 here about

00:37:57.800 trying to

00:37:58.200 become famous

00:37:58.860 on Facebook

00:37:59.400 or by some

00:38:00.500 other means

00:38:00.980 that's not

00:38:03.160 a realistic

00:38:03.740 goal

00:38:04.120 so that's

00:38:04.760 something

00:38:05.000 that an

00:38:05.320 individual

00:38:05.580 can do

00:38:06.060 set

00:38:06.620 rational

00:38:07.180 goals

00:38:07.580 for

00:38:07.760 yourself

00:38:08.160 something

00:38:10.720 that's

00:38:11.000 more

00:38:11.160 structural

00:38:11.620 than

00:38:11.860 individuals

00:38:12.300 can

00:38:12.560 participate

00:38:12.920 in

00:38:13.080 I call

00:38:13.440 them

00:38:13.680 new

00:38:14.200 villages

00:38:14.580 and again

00:38:15.320 I talked

00:38:16.400 about

00:38:16.720 the

00:38:17.660 natural

00:38:18.580 evolutionary

00:38:20.020 adaptiveness

00:38:21.260 of human

00:38:22.200 beings

00:38:22.580 to small

00:38:23.400 stable

00:38:24.100 groups

00:38:24.580 where we

00:38:25.340 know one

00:38:25.760 another

00:38:26.060 and we

00:38:26.760 are with

00:38:27.720 one another

00:38:28.100 face to

00:38:28.560 face over

00:38:29.060 long periods

00:38:29.700 of time

00:38:30.140 and we

00:38:30.520 form durable

00:38:31.460 relationships

00:38:32.060 we know

00:38:32.800 one another

00:38:33.220 to the extent

00:38:33.840 to know

00:38:34.200 who's good

00:38:34.660 at what

00:38:35.000 and who's

00:38:35.260 not so good

00:38:35.740 at what

00:38:36.400 and roles

00:38:37.300 are found

00:38:37.820 in such

00:38:38.300 groups

00:38:38.560 I call

00:38:39.540 them new

00:38:39.940 villages

00:38:40.340 and we

00:38:41.040 can install

00:38:42.160 these new

00:38:42.860 villages

00:38:43.240 in our

00:38:43.840 workplaces

00:38:44.480 and in our

00:38:45.580 communities

00:38:46.000 we ought to be

00:38:47.020 working very

00:38:47.740 hard in

00:38:48.260 America

00:38:48.600 at finding

00:38:49.540 alternatives

00:38:50.200 to these

00:38:51.060 mass scale

00:38:51.920 organizations

00:38:52.620 composed of

00:38:53.940 millions of

00:38:54.440 people where

00:38:54.940 only one or

00:38:55.580 two or ten

00:38:56.120 people can

00:38:56.600 be recognized

00:38:57.320 a company

00:38:58.880 I like to

00:38:59.760 and I

00:39:00.120 point this

00:39:00.440 out in my

00:39:00.800 book

00:39:00.960 a company

00:39:01.280 called

00:39:01.580 W.L.

00:39:02.440 Gore

00:39:02.740 they make

00:39:03.200 Gore-Tex

00:39:03.720 they're a

00:39:04.640 large company

00:39:05.160 with several

00:39:05.900 thousand employees

00:39:06.780 but they

00:39:07.200 break their

00:39:08.140 work groups

00:39:08.800 into not

00:39:09.600 greater than

00:39:10.120 150 or

00:39:11.040 200 people

00:39:11.700 when a

00:39:12.040 work group

00:39:12.480 making a

00:39:12.940 particular

00:39:13.220 product or

00:39:13.840 service

00:39:14.180 gets bigger

00:39:14.900 than that

00:39:15.300 they have

00:39:16.480 a corporate

00:39:17.080 policy to

00:39:17.680 break the

00:39:18.160 group down

00:39:18.600 they literally

00:39:19.160 build buildings

00:39:20.680 that are

00:39:21.060 sized to hold

00:39:22.700 only 200 or so

00:39:23.580 people

00:39:23.880 and they build

00:39:24.820 new buildings

00:39:25.440 and break

00:39:25.980 groups down

00:39:26.560 into new

00:39:26.960 work groups

00:39:27.520 when they get

00:39:28.400 bigger than that

00:39:29.040 and they do

00:39:29.600 that specifically

00:39:30.460 so that people

00:39:31.440 know one another

00:39:32.120 and in each

00:39:33.180 work group

00:39:33.740 leaders of that

00:39:34.940 group are

00:39:35.380 selected bottom

00:39:36.380 up by consensus

00:39:37.300 people bid for

00:39:38.560 the opportunity

00:39:39.180 to lead work

00:39:40.060 groups in W.L.

00:39:41.240 Gore based

00:39:42.320 upon their

00:39:42.820 ability to sell

00:39:43.640 themselves to

00:39:44.840 other people

00:39:45.500 to their peers

00:39:46.280 in their work

00:39:46.840 group so you

00:39:47.600 can structure a

00:39:48.480 large and this

00:39:49.100 is a very

00:39:49.580 profitable private

00:39:50.440 organization W.L.

00:39:51.400 Gore but they

00:39:51.860 structured their

00:39:53.300 corporate organization

00:39:54.260 around the

00:39:55.680 natural human

00:39:56.800 tendency to

00:39:58.120 want to

00:39:58.820 thrive and

00:40:00.020 be recognized

00:40:00.800 in groups that

00:40:02.100 are small

00:40:02.560 enough so

00:40:03.280 that almost

00:40:03.740 everyone in

00:40:04.420 that group

00:40:04.820 can be

00:40:05.160 recognized for

00:40:05.780 something so

00:40:06.920 another thing

00:40:08.000 that I speak

00:40:08.420 about in the

00:40:08.820 boat have

00:40:09.600 friendships that

00:40:10.360 the number of

00:40:11.700 Americans who

00:40:12.360 have zero

00:40:12.940 friends and

00:40:13.580 this is good

00:40:14.080 social science

00:40:14.820 data has been

00:40:15.920 cut in half

00:40:16.880 over the past

00:40:17.540 30 years

00:40:18.060 about a quarter

00:40:18.900 of Americans

00:40:19.460 report having

00:40:20.160 no friends

00:40:21.200 whatsoever so

00:40:22.620 friendships are

00:40:23.760 one of the

00:40:24.080 most highly

00:40:26.500 important things

00:40:27.360 obviously loving

00:40:28.440 relationships are

00:40:29.180 important but

00:40:29.960 friendships durable

00:40:31.220 long-range

00:40:32.160 friendships where

00:40:32.920 you can share

00:40:33.480 deep stuff very

00:40:35.100 very important to

00:40:35.960 human lives you've

00:40:36.620 got to spend a lot

00:40:37.380 more attention on

00:40:38.120 this and instead

00:40:38.720 of looking to get

00:40:39.700 a bigger car a

00:40:40.580 bigger house a

00:40:41.380 bigger boat you

00:40:43.100 know a prettier

00:40:43.800 face think about

00:40:45.700 getting a friend

00:40:46.800 or two so

00:40:47.900 there's there's

00:40:48.480 some examples of

00:40:49.180 things that we can

00:40:50.060 do individually

00:40:50.700 fantastic well

00:40:52.040 Jim Rubens this

00:40:52.760 has been a just a

00:40:53.600 fascinating discussion

00:40:54.840 thank you for so

00:40:56.560 much thank you so

00:40:57.240 much for your time

00:40:57.720 it's been a

00:40:58.160 pleasure okay

00:40:59.940 thank you for

00:41:01.140 having me very

00:41:01.740 very appreciative of

00:41:02.760 this question our

00:41:03.940 guest today was

00:41:04.460 Jim Rubens he's

00:41:05.200 the author of the

00:41:05.780 book over success

00:41:06.780 healing the

00:41:07.320 American obsession

00:41:08.120 with wealth fame

00:41:09.040 power and

00:41:09.580 perfection you can

00:41:10.340 find that on

00:41:10.840 amazon.com go out

00:41:12.300 and get it it's a

00:41:12.800 really fascinating

00:41:13.620 reading you'll get

00:41:14.180 a lot out of it

00:41:14.860 well that wraps up

00:41:18.760 another edition of

00:41:19.620 the art of

00:41:20.140 manliness podcast

00:41:20.880 for more manly

00:41:21.700 tips and advice

00:41:22.340 make sure to check

00:41:23.040 out the art of

00:41:23.580 manliness website

00:41:24.360 at art of

00:41:24.800 manliness.com and

00:41:26.260 again if you enjoy

00:41:26.900 this podcast you feel

00:41:27.780 like you're getting

00:41:28.080 something out of it

00:41:28.660 I'd really appreciate

00:41:29.420 it if you'd go give

00:41:30.160 us a review on

00:41:30.840 iTunes or Stitcher

00:41:32.000 a lot of you have

00:41:33.080 done that for me I

00:41:33.880 really appreciate it

00:41:34.740 your feedback will

00:41:36.000 help us improve the

00:41:36.680 site and you're

00:41:37.500 giving your view

00:41:38.000 will help spread the

00:41:38.780 word about the art of

00:41:39.580 manliness podcast so

00:41:40.740 until next time this is

00:41:41.560 Brett McKay telling

00:41:42.280 you to stay manly

00:41:44.700 morning

00:41:47.840 you

00:41:55.640 you

00:41:56.080 you

00:41:56.480 you

00:41:57.800 You

The Art of Manliness - August 11, 2015

#128： How Your Obsession With Success Is Making You Miserable With Jim Rubens

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript