The Art of Manliness - August 11, 2015


#128： How Your Obsession With Success Is Making You Miserable With Jim Rubens


Episode Stats

Length

41 minutes

Words per Minute

153.32169

Word Count

6,439

Sentence Count

189

Misogynist Sentences

22

Hate Speech Sentences

25


Summary

Jim Ruben's book, Over Success, Healing the American Obsession with Wealth, Fame, Power, and Perfection, makes the case that our obsession with material success is making us feel terrible. In this book, he argues that the reason why everyone s so miserable is that we re chasing material success at all costs, and the thing we put up before anything else, as well as fame and notoriety.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Brad McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
00:00:18.280 So a survey came out a few years ago that said that one in three American adults are
00:00:21.840 pervasively dissatisfied with their lives.
00:00:24.360 Research has also shown that if you're born after 1970, you're seven times more likely
00:00:28.900 to have depression than those who were born before 1970.
00:00:32.980 One in four of Americans have some sort of addiction, whether substance or behavior.
00:00:37.500 We're drowning in record personal and public debt.
00:00:41.500 And the crazy thing is we live in one of the most affluent times in our country's history,
00:00:45.640 safest periods in our country's history.
00:00:47.360 So, I mean, everything is awesome, but everyone, a lot of people are feeling really miserable.
00:00:51.720 Why is that?
00:00:53.140 Well, our guest today wrote a book and we want to find out the answer to that.
00:00:56.600 His name is Jim Rubens.
00:00:57.820 He is a New Hampshire politician as well as businessman, and his book is called Over
00:01:02.160 Success, Healing the American Obsession with Wealth, Fame, Power, and Perfection.
00:01:06.940 And in this book, Mr. Ruben makes the argument that the reason why everyone's so miserable
00:01:10.440 is that we're pursuing material success at all costs.
00:01:15.180 It's the thing we put up before anything else, as well as fame and notoriety.
00:01:19.300 And he makes the case that's making us miserable.
00:01:21.320 And he gets into sociological research, psychological research, neuroscience, that shows that our
00:01:27.220 obsession with success, and he calls this obsession with success over success, is making us feel
00:01:32.460 terrible.
00:01:33.140 So it's a fascinating discussion.
00:01:34.720 I think you're really going to like what we talk about today.
00:01:36.460 It's sort of a balance.
00:01:37.500 A lot of times on the podcast, we talk about how to be more successful.
00:01:40.380 I think his book provides a warning if you get too crazy with that.
00:01:45.020 So without further ado, Jim Rubens, Over Success.
00:01:55.380 All right, Jim Rubens, welcome to the show.
00:01:58.420 And it is a pleasure being here.
00:02:00.140 All right, so your book is Over Success.
00:02:02.340 And I encountered this book by accident at the library a few years ago.
00:02:07.080 And for some reason, I was drawn to it, checked it out, and really was amazed by the content
00:02:12.220 and the argument you make.
00:02:13.400 And you basically make the argument that there's a disease, quote unquote, and you call it over
00:02:20.300 success.
00:02:21.440 And it affects Westerners, but primarily Americans.
00:02:24.960 What are the symptoms of over success?
00:02:28.740 Well, I guess I'll launch right into what is, well, start with what's natural and healthy
00:02:34.980 and good for human beings.
00:02:36.440 We're unique among the species on Earth.
00:02:38.480 We're a species that is very, very good at working with one another in groups.
00:02:44.980 And we have done amazing things over the past 10,000 years because of our ability to form
00:02:51.700 groups and to transmit knowledge and cultural behaviors, healthy cultural behaviors from
00:02:56.980 generation to generation.
00:02:58.120 And we've basically gone from a blip on the species radar screen 60,000 years ago to basically
00:03:04.720 dominating the Earth today.
00:03:05.980 And there's a reason for that.
00:03:07.300 And it's the healthy parts of success.
00:03:09.800 And what's the healthy part is that we all, as individuals, want to have internal satisfaction
00:03:17.240 from producing something of value, of being recognized by people who are close to us, of
00:03:23.380 attaining personal goals, achieving altruism, or mastering something difficult.
00:03:28.580 Well, and in doing that, in doing those things often, and this is a healthy thing, we seek
00:03:33.320 to attain recognition and satisfaction from a pat on the back from other people who are
00:03:38.120 close to us.
00:03:39.620 And those motivations, that motivation to do that for the good of our group, for the good
00:03:44.100 of our community, if you want to call it a community, has led to this extraordinary
00:03:48.440 progress that humans have made, particularly in America over the past 200 some odd years.
00:03:53.300 We've doubled the human lifespan, for example.
00:03:56.620 We've created food abundance so that there's very few of us in America ever need to even
00:04:03.000 be concerned about having enough warmth in our homes or food in our bellies.
00:04:07.980 That's not universally true, but we've eliminated hunger and starvation in a remarkable way.
00:04:18.120 Now, the unhealthy, what I call over-success and obsession, and the title of the book,
00:04:24.860 The Oversuccess, Healing the American Obsession with Wealth, Fame, Power, and Perfection, the
00:04:30.040 unhealthy part of it is due in part to the change in the world, the changes in the world
00:04:35.720 we live in.
00:04:36.580 And unhealthy success or over-success is when people are pathologically pursuing unattainable
00:04:47.080 goals or fixated on unattainable goals, but more wealth, fame, power, and perfection or
00:04:53.280 beauty than can be obtained by ordinary people.
00:04:58.020 So, healthy success, doing things for personal satisfaction, improving life in your group,
00:05:06.380 mastering something, unhealthy success, pathological pursuit of unattainable goals, whatever they
00:05:12.140 might be.
00:05:13.080 Have you experienced over-success in your own life?
00:05:15.740 Was that what caused you to start investigating this and doing the research about it?
00:05:20.080 Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:23.960 Human beings are all different.
00:05:25.440 We vary on various scales of behaviors and personal goals and attributes.
00:05:33.100 Myself, I had, early in my adulthood, I decided to live a very simple life without being motivated
00:05:44.740 much by materialism.
00:05:46.000 So, I did most of what I did for altruistic reasons.
00:05:51.140 And I started, it was my first business, I started about 10 businesses in my life.
00:05:55.260 Since then, my first business was, started purely out of altruism.
00:05:59.200 I wanted to have recycling in my area of the country, in Vermont and New Hampshire.
00:06:03.380 And there was no recycling.
00:06:04.560 I called the EPA.
00:06:05.780 I asked them, how do you start a recycling center?
00:06:07.460 They said, it cannot be done where you are.
00:06:09.140 So, that stimulated the heck out of me.
00:06:10.680 I'm a business person and I love entrepreneurship.
00:06:13.420 So, I figured out a way to make recycling happen.
00:06:16.040 In about three months, we were recycling about 5% of the entire solid waste stream of 30 towns
00:06:22.800 around a town that I started this in.
00:06:25.640 I did so in a shoestring and built it into a very successful business almost instantly.
00:06:31.200 And about a year and a half later, I sold the business because a conventional rubbish
00:06:35.140 hauler had seen this can be done, wanted the branding of recycling.
00:06:38.600 And so, I sold the business and I was hitchhiking back in a November day.
00:06:42.480 This is the introductory paragraph in my book.
00:06:45.440 I was hitchhiking back in a cold November day.
00:06:47.460 It was spitting snow.
00:06:49.260 And I was cold.
00:06:50.440 I was dressed in goodwill clothing.
00:06:52.540 And I looked like a bum on the side of the road because that's the way I dressed.
00:06:56.480 I was not into materialism.
00:06:58.000 I couldn't get a ride because I didn't believe in having a car and I could not get a ride
00:07:02.020 back to my house a few miles away.
00:07:03.900 And I decided, I watched all the gleaning new cars come by with working heaters and well-dressed
00:07:11.060 people inside and decided that my voluntary simplicity lifestyle was too painful for me.
00:07:19.300 So, I switched sides and I became an entrepreneur.
00:07:24.660 And like I said, I started a number of businesses and I discovered that no matter how successful
00:07:30.360 I was at doing things, at getting money, at getting recognition, at accomplishing stuff
00:07:35.260 that there was in me, and this is my psychology, I discovered there were these unmet needs that
00:07:41.080 no matter what I did, no matter how high I set my goals and no matter how well I achieved
00:07:45.980 them, I was always wanting.
00:07:48.540 I always wanted more.
00:07:49.940 So, I began researching this and it led to five years of research that resulted in the
00:07:54.900 book.
00:07:56.060 And I don't claim or state that every American is subject to these motivations, but I have
00:08:02.540 found, this is the research in the book, that about a third of Americans, due to human
00:08:07.840 nature, the human body, the human brain, and what's unique about America, the United States
00:08:12.400 of America, makes about a third of us susceptible to this set of problems and challenges ahead
00:08:22.560 of my own life.
00:08:23.360 So, yes, this book came out of my personal experience.
00:08:26.100 So, you call it over-success sort of a pathological drive for success, but what happens when you have
00:08:31.980 that pathological drive?
00:08:32.840 Does it lead to depression, addiction, alcohol?
00:08:36.020 I mean, what are the ills that come with being so driven for recognition, money, material goods?
00:08:43.940 Well, one of the things that comes out of failing to achieve goals for yourself that are unattainable,
00:08:54.840 the pathological pursuit of unattainable goals, one of the things that come out of that is
00:08:59.060 you poison your brain's reward system.
00:09:02.340 I'll explain that in a moment.
00:09:03.180 And it's possible that one, in doing this, can become depressed, and one can degrade one's own life.
00:09:11.760 Let's start with a little bit of brain science.
00:09:14.360 We have a reward system in our brain.
00:09:17.140 All creatures that move have a reward system, and it's been changed by evolution over the millennia.
00:09:27.480 Even single-celled creatures that crawl have a reward system that directs them to things that are good
00:09:36.920 or likely to be good for that creature and directs them away from things that are not good
00:09:41.600 or likely not to be good for that creature.
00:09:43.960 Your reward system looks at this whole panoply of things that you can do for yourself,
00:09:49.460 whether it's getting some more sex, getting more money, getting more food, doing something exciting,
00:09:54.640 doing something novel.
00:09:55.760 All of these things drive human behavior, and this reward system sorts through all these exposures that we have
00:10:06.100 and helps us determine automatically which of these things we're going to pursue.
00:10:12.360 And this reward system operates, and this is a bit oversimplified,
00:10:18.360 but this reward system in our brain terminates in part in this part of our brain called the nucleus accumbens.
00:10:23.960 And the last stage of the reward system is a surge in release of dopamine in the brain,
00:10:31.460 which is picked up by five different receptors in this area of the brain
00:10:35.520 that determine for us what direction we should go in
00:10:40.840 and how rewarding a behavior is expected to be.
00:10:47.440 Now, we can poison that reward system.
00:10:53.120 Some people poison it through addictions.
00:10:57.200 Some people are prone to addiction.
00:10:58.920 About a quarter of Americans are addicted to at least one substance or behavior.
00:11:03.100 When you're addicted to a substance or behavior, you begin seeking out that substance or behavior,
00:11:11.600 and it culminates in a fanatic desire to do nothing but get more money or get more of that substance or that behavior.
00:11:20.580 And over time, you poison the reward system,
00:11:23.600 diminishing its response to pleasurable or likely-to-be-pleasurable activities or inputs.
00:11:31.500 So, making you less sensitive to rewarding things.
00:11:36.140 So, another thing that can poison the reward system,
00:11:38.800 because human beings are rewarded by attention.
00:11:43.160 It's very clear that that same part of the reward system that lights up dopamine
00:11:47.500 is released with the expectation of having good sex or having a wonderful meal
00:11:51.920 or a stimulating experience or something novel and exciting.
00:11:56.280 Being recognized and viewed by others is rewarding to that same portions of that same reward system.
00:12:05.740 So, if one is frustrated in getting these rewards,
00:12:18.320 particularly the attention reward, the status reward that I talk about in the book,
00:12:22.480 over time, the brain's reward system is poison,
00:12:27.040 but making it less susceptible to naturally occurring rewards.
00:12:31.200 The status research was just fascinating to me,
00:12:34.820 because you also relate to how it relates to problems that men are facing today.
00:12:42.260 What role, I mean, what's the dopamine, or is it not dopamine, it's serotonin, right?
00:12:48.140 It's the neurotransmitter.
00:12:49.840 Yeah, that's a different neurotransmitter,
00:12:51.880 and I didn't spend a lot of time exploring that in the book,
00:12:54.940 and I don't intend this book to be a brain science book,
00:12:58.700 but I wanted to explore just a portion of the reward pathway
00:13:02.660 to show that the science, up to the time I was working on this book,
00:13:07.460 was showing you the reward system can be injured by addictions,
00:13:12.700 by frustration in one's effort to reach unattainable goals,
00:13:18.500 and in what I call status insults or status deceit.
00:13:21.680 So, for example, they've researched rats and mice.
00:13:25.100 If you take a mouse, a low-status mouse,
00:13:29.220 and all mammals have an inherent status rank,
00:13:33.980 if you put mice in a group, they'll sort out,
00:13:37.360 there'll be dominant mice and subordinate mice.
00:13:40.040 And if you take a subordinate mouse,
00:13:41.840 an actually occurring subordinate mouse,
00:13:44.380 and put it in a cage with a dominant mouse for 10 minutes a day, once a day,
00:13:49.160 and the dominant mouse elicits certain behaviors,
00:13:53.180 and the subordinate mouse,
00:13:54.680 if you do that for 10 minutes a day,
00:13:56.800 the subordinate mouse, after approximately a week or two,
00:14:00.760 scientists call that mouse defeated.
00:14:04.040 The mouse will switch its behavior pattern
00:14:06.560 to become more likely to hide in corners,
00:14:10.700 less likely to engage in the swim test,
00:14:14.460 where it would swim across some water to get food,
00:14:17.160 or to get to a different location in a cage.
00:14:19.980 So, mice and human beings can be defeated
00:14:22.660 by excessive exposure to status superiors,
00:14:27.420 or be socially defeated,
00:14:30.220 or suffer status deceit
00:14:32.160 by failing to achieve goals,
00:14:36.600 again, unattainable goals,
00:14:38.620 or being under-recognized, under-appreciated.
00:14:41.800 This gets into politically controversial territory,
00:14:44.840 but men and women are different.
00:14:46.580 We can look at our bodies,
00:14:48.480 we have different bodies,
00:14:49.940 and it follows,
00:14:51.880 and it's been proven to be so by science,
00:14:53.860 and again, it's politically incorrect to talk about this,
00:14:55.820 but men and women have different brains,
00:14:57.940 and different psychological functions,
00:15:00.160 and bottom line,
00:15:01.060 men are more sensitive to status defeat,
00:15:04.300 as I've described it,
00:15:05.800 than women.
00:15:06.180 If you look at,
00:15:08.380 and this is some data about,
00:15:12.860 this is eight weeks after conception,
00:15:17.300 a male boy,
00:15:21.060 eight weeks after conception,
00:15:23.100 the body is flooded with testosterone
00:15:25.400 at about twice the levels
00:15:27.020 that a boy is exposed to during adolescence,
00:15:29.180 and it alters the structure of brain development
00:15:34.160 as the child is growing,
00:15:35.640 and you can see differences in boys and girls,
00:15:40.100 even before they can possibly have any sexual role models
00:15:43.420 imprinted upon them.
00:15:44.360 Boys, young boys,
00:15:46.400 very, very young,
00:15:47.620 attention and gaze is directed at machines.
00:15:51.320 Men and boys are interested in systems and machines.
00:15:54.300 The girls are attracted,
00:15:55.540 and this is girls very young,
00:15:56.980 before any kind of sexual imprinting could possibly take place.
00:16:00.120 Science has shown this to be the case.
00:16:01.320 The girls will look at faces.
00:16:03.500 So girls are good at reading faces,
00:16:07.660 at social interaction.
00:16:09.760 Males, boys,
00:16:10.980 are good at systems thinking,
00:16:13.360 good at building stuff.
00:16:15.720 The body,
00:16:16.220 the male body is bigger.
00:16:17.420 The male was built over time.
00:16:19.320 The male has,
00:16:21.060 in almost every case,
00:16:22.740 been primarily engaged in warfare.
00:16:24.420 So if you look at current data,
00:16:29.440 this grows out of the difference
00:16:30.800 between the male and the female brains.
00:16:32.980 If you look at men,
00:16:34.180 they're more prone to drug addiction for pleasure.
00:16:37.200 There's about two to three times
00:16:39.280 greater drug addiction prevalence
00:16:43.120 among males than females.
00:16:44.760 It's about four times for alcohol.
00:16:47.540 The male brains have more of those
00:16:49.140 dopamine receptor neurons
00:16:50.980 than female brains.
00:16:52.100 So all of this,
00:16:54.180 and it's a lengthy chapter in this book,
00:16:56.060 but all of this leads to the male brain
00:16:58.260 being more reward sensitive,
00:17:01.060 more sensitive to rank and status,
00:17:03.440 more sensitive to rank and status,
00:17:06.100 relative rank and status in the world.
00:17:09.220 I think you even mentioned
00:17:10.520 how they've done tests
00:17:11.620 where they'll expose men and women
00:17:14.200 to status defeats.
00:17:16.120 They'll create some sort of experiment
00:17:17.820 where they do that.
00:17:18.440 And in the women,
00:17:19.960 they don't really have much of a response.
00:17:23.220 But in the men,
00:17:24.760 cortisol floods the body.
00:17:27.340 There's parts of the brain that light up
00:17:29.740 that don't light up in women's bodies.
00:17:32.300 So yeah,
00:17:32.680 like you were saying,
00:17:33.400 that the men are,
00:17:35.220 I guess,
00:17:36.980 wired for being very,
00:17:38.740 very sensitive to status.
00:17:41.720 To status defeat.
00:17:42.780 No,
00:17:43.080 this is not to say that
00:17:44.220 men and women are all,
00:17:45.820 all men are one way
00:17:48.560 and all women are the other way.
00:17:49.680 This is a spectrum of behaviors across,
00:17:51.840 but it's more likely that a male
00:17:53.880 will be more sensitive to status defeat,
00:17:56.700 more sensitive to his rank
00:17:58.920 within his group or society
00:18:00.720 than a typical female.
00:18:03.620 But there can be females
00:18:05.000 that are more sensitive to status rank,
00:18:07.400 more interested in power,
00:18:09.380 power relationships than males.
00:18:11.260 So these are tendencies
00:18:14.140 across the spectrum of human behavior.
00:18:16.520 But it does lead to men,
00:18:19.180 as I mentioned,
00:18:19.800 being more sensitive
00:18:21.040 to status failure,
00:18:23.300 to status defeat.
00:18:24.780 And we've also seen changes in America
00:18:26.740 that has aggravated this.
00:18:28.020 And we'll keep talking about males here
00:18:29.440 versus females.
00:18:31.680 Before about 1970 in America,
00:18:34.020 after World War II,
00:18:35.140 the male was typically the breadwinner.
00:18:36.980 We had a lot of jobs for breadwinners.
00:18:39.860 Typically, the male would go out and work
00:18:42.140 and be able to support an entire family.
00:18:44.540 Now, since that time,
00:18:46.400 in the past 40 years,
00:18:48.240 the bottom 80% of men,
00:18:50.560 and this is by income,
00:18:51.760 the bottom 80% of men
00:18:53.520 have seen their wages decline
00:18:56.540 as we've shifted from labor
00:18:58.960 to professions demanding intelligence
00:19:02.080 and social skills.
00:19:03.000 And yet,
00:19:04.440 women over this past 40 years
00:19:07.340 have seen their incomes go up 33%.
00:19:10.040 Now, there was a disparity
00:19:11.880 between men and women
00:19:14.020 in the 1970s.
00:19:16.860 That gap is closing.
00:19:18.560 But this is fairly recent data.
00:19:20.460 Over the past 10 years,
00:19:21.600 if you have a man and a woman
00:19:23.620 never married,
00:19:24.960 no children,
00:19:25.700 in their 30s to 40s,
00:19:28.180 they now earn
00:19:29.360 about the same amount.
00:19:31.100 The wage gap is closed
00:19:32.380 between the sexes in America
00:19:34.440 for never married,
00:19:36.420 childless men and women.
00:19:39.720 So, men have seen
00:19:41.160 their income status drop.
00:19:43.380 This is the bottom 80% of men by income,
00:19:45.460 and women go up
00:19:46.720 due to the changes in our economy.
00:19:48.280 So, males have less
00:19:51.820 of the traditional awards
00:19:53.180 that have come
00:19:55.260 with those breadwinner roles
00:19:56.820 as the economy has changed.
00:19:59.900 So, number one,
00:20:00.500 men are inherently more sensitive
00:20:01.880 to rank to questions,
00:20:05.780 and the economy has,
00:20:07.080 in essence,
00:20:08.060 aggravated,
00:20:08.520 the American economy
00:20:09.280 has aggravated this problem
00:20:11.820 uniquely for men.
00:20:12.980 And it doesn't mean
00:20:13.500 that women are affected by this,
00:20:15.080 but just on average
00:20:16.380 across the whole spectrum
00:20:18.080 of behavior and people,
00:20:19.900 these changes have been,
00:20:22.560 in general,
00:20:23.880 more adverse for men.
00:20:25.000 The shift from
00:20:25.600 a manufacturing economy
00:20:26.780 to an intelligence
00:20:27.980 and social skills
00:20:29.280 based economy.
00:20:31.020 Well, you've served
00:20:32.040 in public office
00:20:33.000 and you've run
00:20:33.780 for public office,
00:20:35.660 and how does that,
00:20:37.840 how does this shift
00:20:38.820 where men are no longer
00:20:40.500 breadwinners,
00:20:42.260 is that going to have,
00:20:43.320 is that having
00:20:44.240 and will that have
00:20:45.380 long-term implications
00:20:47.880 for our society
00:20:49.920 and our country
00:20:50.500 as a whole?
00:20:53.540 Definitely so.
00:20:54.740 When the women's movement
00:20:56.140 really began
00:20:56.740 in the younger part
00:20:57.640 of my life
00:20:58.060 in the 70s,
00:20:59.460 society was called upon
00:21:02.120 and did
00:21:02.660 and is paying attention
00:21:04.000 to problems
00:21:04.960 unique to women.
00:21:05.620 And it's really
00:21:06.460 at the point now
00:21:07.480 where we have to
00:21:08.080 begin paying
00:21:09.220 serious attention
00:21:10.320 to problems
00:21:11.100 that are unique to men.
00:21:12.660 and we can see data
00:21:14.120 showing how serious
00:21:15.080 this is for,
00:21:16.560 if you look at data
00:21:17.700 related to whites,
00:21:20.880 not in school,
00:21:23.180 young men
00:21:23.820 between, say,
00:21:24.820 18 and 24,
00:21:26.040 if you look at this data,
00:21:26.740 you see this spike
00:21:27.800 over the past
00:21:28.620 20 years,
00:21:29.700 20 and 30 years,
00:21:31.200 in rootless,
00:21:32.820 disconnected men
00:21:34.720 who don't have
00:21:36.220 specific roles
00:21:37.500 in the economy
00:21:38.200 or society.
00:21:39.460 They're hanging out,
00:21:40.700 not being productive,
00:21:42.060 not fulfilling themselves.
00:21:43.860 And this stems
00:21:45.260 from the change
00:21:46.460 in the kind of jobs
00:21:47.440 available,
00:21:48.120 the kind of economy
00:21:48.800 we have right now.
00:21:49.680 It's important
00:21:50.360 for policymakers
00:21:51.020 and myself
00:21:52.180 when I was in office,
00:21:52.960 I was attuned to this
00:21:54.360 as much as I could,
00:21:55.760 the need to pay
00:21:56.900 policy attention
00:21:57.720 to these questions.
00:21:59.180 It relates to,
00:22:00.900 if you look at data
00:22:01.880 in higher education,
00:22:04.440 you see women
00:22:06.020 pushing 60%
00:22:07.600 of college attendees
00:22:09.160 now,
00:22:09.660 and college graduates
00:22:10.520 are now females
00:22:11.620 compared to men.
00:22:13.760 So we have to pay
00:22:15.740 attention to
00:22:16.460 the need to shift
00:22:17.520 the way our education
00:22:19.360 system works
00:22:21.160 with men versus women.
00:22:24.280 It's one thing
00:22:25.200 that needs to be done.
00:22:26.960 Yeah, I was,
00:22:28.180 a few months ago,
00:22:29.180 I was talking
00:22:29.580 to a relationship expert
00:22:30.760 who had her PhD
00:22:33.380 and she claimed
00:22:36.920 to be a feminist.
00:22:37.580 She called herself
00:22:37.940 a feminist
00:22:38.340 and she even said
00:22:39.340 that this shift
00:22:40.640 that's happening,
00:22:41.440 it's really disrupting
00:22:43.240 marriage
00:22:44.540 because while men,
00:22:48.240 while women are still,
00:22:49.580 while they're advancing
00:22:50.280 in the workplace,
00:22:51.000 they would still rather
00:22:52.520 prefer to marry a man
00:22:53.780 who makes more money
00:22:54.920 than them.
00:22:55.460 That's what the statistics
00:22:56.280 are showing.
00:22:57.540 But when fewer,
00:22:58.640 when there's not men,
00:23:00.380 when more and more men
00:23:01.160 are doing worse
00:23:02.040 in the workplace,
00:23:03.820 there are fewer
00:23:04.580 and fewer
00:23:05.180 eligible bachelors,
00:23:07.640 so to speak.
00:23:08.560 And this could have
00:23:09.920 long-term implications
00:23:10.960 on a lot of things
00:23:12.140 on a societal level
00:23:12.900 when it comes to
00:23:13.620 things like
00:23:14.620 our welfare,
00:23:16.900 you know,
00:23:17.160 welfare system
00:23:17.980 which is based on
00:23:18.820 us having,
00:23:20.040 continuing to have children
00:23:20.920 and if we
00:23:21.420 have a decrease
00:23:23.060 in demographics
00:23:24.360 that can affect
00:23:25.040 a whole wide range
00:23:26.160 of things.
00:23:26.860 Right.
00:23:28.720 It's very well known
00:23:30.160 that, you know,
00:23:32.100 healthy families
00:23:32.840 need a man
00:23:35.500 and a woman,
00:23:36.180 a husband and wife.
00:23:37.880 I'm fine with gay marriage
00:23:39.260 so it could be
00:23:39.800 two men
00:23:40.440 but typically
00:23:41.140 it'll be a husband
00:23:41.740 and wife
00:23:42.200 rearing a child
00:23:43.360 and because we're
00:23:44.980 having this growing
00:23:45.800 population of young
00:23:47.460 loser men
00:23:48.320 and what I mean
00:23:48.780 by losers
00:23:49.300 is people who are
00:23:50.060 not in school,
00:23:51.380 not productively employed,
00:23:52.780 it's a growing fraction
00:23:53.800 of young white men
00:23:55.300 fall into this category
00:23:57.900 and women
00:23:59.400 who are seeking
00:24:00.700 to sustain
00:24:01.780 a healthy role
00:24:03.160 in the economy
00:24:03.660 are not attracted
00:24:05.240 to an economic loser
00:24:06.560 and it is causing
00:24:08.320 that is one component
00:24:10.240 of the cause
00:24:10.880 of a delay
00:24:11.480 and a reduction
00:24:12.760 in initial marriages
00:24:14.120 and that's not
00:24:15.740 healthy for society.
00:24:17.260 As you mentioned,
00:24:18.360 you need to have
00:24:19.100 babies born
00:24:20.040 in a country
00:24:21.520 so there's a natural flow
00:24:23.820 from young to old
00:24:25.100 and so we don't run
00:24:26.560 into the problem
00:24:27.120 that Japan is happening
00:24:28.080 where you have
00:24:28.540 this rapidly aging
00:24:30.160 population
00:24:30.820 with young people
00:24:32.360 not wanting
00:24:32.980 to form families
00:24:33.900 with women
00:24:35.200 not wanting
00:24:35.720 to marry men
00:24:36.420 and young people
00:24:39.660 not being born.
00:24:41.340 Yeah.
00:24:41.760 So you talk about
00:24:43.320 how over-success
00:24:44.340 is this pathological
00:24:46.140 drive for unattainable goals
00:24:47.840 which raises the question
00:24:49.660 how did we get
00:24:51.280 these unattainable goals?
00:24:54.220 Right?
00:24:54.360 Like why do we have
00:24:55.220 these unattainable goals now?
00:24:56.800 Was there a time
00:24:57.660 in our country's history
00:24:58.740 where we had
00:25:00.140 a little bit more modesty
00:25:01.280 about what we were capable
00:25:02.940 of accomplishing
00:25:04.380 or did something happen
00:25:06.820 where the limits
00:25:09.680 became pretty much endless
00:25:12.320 for what we could achieve
00:25:14.060 in life?
00:25:15.780 Yeah.
00:25:16.100 There has been a change
00:25:17.560 and again
00:25:17.980 this is in one measure
00:25:21.200 caused by the kind of media
00:25:22.860 that forms the groups
00:25:25.900 that we inhabit psychologically.
00:25:28.400 If you look back
00:25:29.440 through human history
00:25:30.280 this is going back
00:25:31.080 to hunter-gatherers
00:25:32.400 and up until
00:25:33.440 fairly recently
00:25:34.860 the average group
00:25:38.620 that we inhabited
00:25:40.220 the people we related to
00:25:42.040 we related to these people
00:25:43.220 face-to-face
00:25:44.040 these groups were stable
00:25:46.720 they could be a tribe
00:25:48.900 a hunter-gatherer tribe
00:25:50.120 they could be a village
00:25:51.300 in classic New England
00:25:54.700 but the people
00:25:56.380 with whom we related
00:25:57.280 we knew for our entire life
00:25:59.440 those relationships
00:26:00.360 were stable
00:26:01.060 people had a very good sense
00:26:03.120 of one another's roles
00:26:04.780 and in these smaller groups
00:26:06.440 the number in the dozens
00:26:08.720 or a small number of hundreds
00:26:10.380 in these smaller groups
00:26:11.880 everyone
00:26:12.600 regardless of their capacity
00:26:14.140 had
00:26:14.720 almost everyone
00:26:16.040 had some kind of role
00:26:17.440 that was valuable
00:26:18.460 for the group
00:26:19.140 they did something
00:26:20.360 group hierarchies
00:26:21.820 were selected
00:26:22.420 again face-to-face
00:26:23.860 often in small groups
00:26:25.700 like this
00:26:26.200 leaders were selected
00:26:27.520 by consensus
00:26:28.240 from the bottom up
00:26:29.240 as opposed to
00:26:29.920 being imposed
00:26:30.760 by a boss
00:26:31.880 from above
00:26:32.300 and as society changed
00:26:34.640 and as we moved away
00:26:35.600 from small groups
00:26:36.620 the group
00:26:38.900 that we now inhabit
00:26:40.100 and this is
00:26:40.720 partly due to
00:26:42.540 globalization
00:26:43.200 in large measure
00:26:44.600 it's due to the kind of
00:26:45.620 media that we spend
00:26:47.440 hours looking at
00:26:48.380 the average American
00:26:49.380 spends eight hours a day
00:26:50.900 looking at screens
00:26:51.840 people still spend
00:26:53.540 four hours a day
00:26:54.620 looking at television
00:26:55.620 retired people in America
00:26:56.900 pushing over eight hours a day
00:26:58.520 watching TV
00:26:59.120 we're now
00:27:00.540 we're now inhabiting
00:27:01.980 a psychological group
00:27:03.460 in the billions
00:27:04.680 I estimate the number
00:27:06.160 being two billion
00:27:07.080 as the people
00:27:08.160 on the earth
00:27:09.040 who inhabit
00:27:09.860 this world
00:27:11.200 where
00:27:12.860 we spend
00:27:14.200 hours a day
00:27:15.040 looking at people
00:27:15.920 who are more beautiful
00:27:16.860 richer
00:27:17.540 more famous
00:27:18.460 more talented
00:27:19.540 than we are
00:27:21.320 not only that
00:27:21.920 when these people
00:27:22.660 are on television
00:27:23.280 or on media
00:27:23.800 they often have
00:27:24.940 a battery of publicists
00:27:26.120 and retouching
00:27:27.040 digital retouch artists
00:27:28.200 making them even more
00:27:29.520 perfect than they actually are
00:27:30.660 so the people
00:27:31.280 with whom
00:27:32.220 and against whom
00:27:33.300 we compare ourselves
00:27:34.480 in order to determine
00:27:35.580 our rank
00:27:36.200 we're no longer
00:27:37.240 looking at a small group
00:27:38.400 that might be a village
00:27:39.320 or a tribe
00:27:39.900 we're looking at
00:27:40.920 the brightest
00:27:42.840 the most famous
00:27:43.980 the most successful
00:27:44.980 the most talented
00:27:45.920 the most well trained
00:27:47.080 people
00:27:47.920 that the earth
00:27:49.180 can produce
00:27:50.000 and
00:27:50.360 human beings
00:27:52.380 have become
00:27:53.560 phenomenal
00:27:54.420 at attaining
00:27:55.960 remarkable
00:27:56.380 look at the women's
00:27:57.460 soccer team
00:27:58.460 that just won
00:27:59.220 here for America
00:28:00.020 the extent
00:28:01.460 of training
00:28:02.260 and selection
00:28:03.040 that members
00:28:04.220 of that team
00:28:05.240 go through
00:28:05.920 to get to that point
00:28:06.900 is phenomenal
00:28:08.220 so the sorting process
00:28:10.560 the sifting
00:28:11.180 and sorting process
00:28:12.200 that we go through
00:28:13.760 in America
00:28:14.300 to select
00:28:14.980 our most recognized
00:28:17.060 people
00:28:17.560 is more intense
00:28:18.780 than it has
00:28:19.860 than it has been
00:28:21.380 throughout most of
00:28:22.640 human history
00:28:23.680 most of human
00:28:24.540 evolutionary history
00:28:25.460 so we're comparing
00:28:26.780 ourselves
00:28:27.320 to people
00:28:28.820 that we can't
00:28:30.700 possibly emulate
00:28:31.800 if we're realistic
00:28:32.840 about it
00:28:33.460 and this causes
00:28:34.580 to some people
00:28:36.060 who are
00:28:36.720 this is not everyone
00:28:37.880 but that fraction
00:28:39.000 of human beings
00:28:40.060 and Americans
00:28:40.560 who are sensitive
00:28:41.160 to this
00:28:41.500 it causes
00:28:42.320 some of us
00:28:43.520 who are sensitive
00:28:44.040 to this
00:28:44.580 to suffer
00:28:45.180 status defeat
00:28:46.120 simply as a result
00:28:47.780 of being forced
00:28:49.180 to compare ourselves
00:28:50.100 to people like that
00:28:50.900 and you see this
00:28:51.560 in the checkout counter
00:28:52.760 as you're walking
00:28:53.240 through your supermarket
00:28:53.980 look at the covers
00:28:55.120 of the tabloids
00:28:55.980 look at typically
00:28:57.140 the people you see
00:28:58.360 they're gorgeous
00:28:59.220 they're famous
00:28:59.920 they're rich
00:29:00.600 they're successful
00:29:01.280 why can't I be like that
00:29:02.900 when did
00:29:03.980 oh go ahead
00:29:05.640 yeah
00:29:07.020 I was going to ask you
00:29:07.700 when was Oversuccess
00:29:09.040 originally published
00:29:11.240 2009
00:29:13.920 early 2009
00:29:15.820 my data
00:29:17.480 yeah
00:29:18.180 this was before
00:29:18.880 like the big
00:29:19.980 social media
00:29:20.720 explosion
00:29:21.520 and I think
00:29:22.200 that like
00:29:23.040 with Facebook
00:29:23.720 and Twitter
00:29:24.320 and Instagram
00:29:25.340 for example
00:29:27.200 I think
00:29:27.500 may have just
00:29:28.160 compounded
00:29:28.940 what you just
00:29:29.360 talked about
00:29:29.940 even made it
00:29:31.460 more cute
00:29:32.320 and more tense
00:29:33.300 yeah
00:29:34.580 well Facebook
00:29:35.120 was certainly
00:29:35.880 around at that time
00:29:36.620 and I spend time
00:29:37.420 talking about it
00:29:38.140 people
00:29:38.980 people who
00:29:39.560 apologists
00:29:40.360 for the system
00:29:40.840 say well
00:29:41.240 Facebook groups
00:29:42.520 and communities
00:29:43.240 are a good
00:29:44.820 substitute
00:29:45.340 for face-to-face
00:29:46.640 communities
00:29:47.320 and that is
00:29:47.920 absolutely not true
00:29:49.100 anyone who
00:29:49.740 participates in
00:29:50.760 Facebook
00:29:51.100 Facebook
00:29:51.460 it's easy to enter
00:29:53.560 it's easy to exit
00:29:54.900 you may never see
00:29:56.180 that person
00:29:56.700 face-to-face
00:29:57.540 the reputations
00:29:59.240 of people
00:30:00.220 their trustworthiness
00:30:01.280 is determined
00:30:02.180 is sometimes
00:30:04.080 undeterminable
00:30:04.940 healthy
00:30:06.080 human communities
00:30:07.540 in which
00:30:08.760 ordinary people
00:30:10.640 have roles
00:30:11.580 that are satisfying
00:30:12.620 and satisfy
00:30:13.920 their need
00:30:14.580 for status
00:30:15.200 their need
00:30:15.700 for recognition
00:30:16.380 these groups
00:30:17.520 typically
00:30:18.120 if you look
00:30:19.200 throughout human history
00:30:20.000 these groups
00:30:20.480 typically are
00:30:21.140 in the range
00:30:21.760 of 100
00:30:22.140 or 200 people
00:30:23.100 and you
00:30:24.400 are with
00:30:25.480 members of that group
00:30:26.360 for your entire lifetime
00:30:27.420 so you know
00:30:28.800 who can be trusted
00:30:29.580 you know who's good
00:30:30.420 and who's not so good
00:30:31.540 at various
00:30:32.080 tasks
00:30:33.340 and also
00:30:34.120 as I mentioned
00:30:34.700 there are roles
00:30:35.860 for almost everyone
00:30:36.800 in that group
00:30:37.600 valuable
00:30:38.340 valued roles
00:30:39.420 for almost everyone
00:30:40.120 so Facebook
00:30:42.080 and social media
00:30:43.320 is not a substitute
00:30:45.280 for long-term
00:30:47.340 stable
00:30:48.140 face-to-face
00:30:49.300 relationships
00:30:50.200 I'm curious
00:30:52.120 if you
00:30:53.000 if there's any connection
00:30:54.280 to
00:30:55.780 some of these
00:30:57.020 mass shootings
00:30:58.280 that we've had
00:30:58.740 in our country
00:30:59.280 because one thing
00:31:00.200 I've noticed
00:31:00.700 some of them
00:31:01.260 are some of these
00:31:01.980 they're usually males
00:31:03.140 always men
00:31:04.400 who do this
00:31:05.680 and one thing
00:31:06.780 I've always noticed
00:31:07.220 they typically
00:31:07.820 write a manifesto
00:31:09.180 of some sort
00:31:10.120 before they
00:31:10.720 take part
00:31:11.440 and they'll explain
00:31:12.380 why they're doing this
00:31:13.960 and oftentimes
00:31:14.940 it's just filled
00:31:16.140 with
00:31:16.660 just writings
00:31:18.420 about how they feel
00:31:19.100 like they're not
00:31:19.560 respected
00:31:20.140 and that
00:31:21.440 people aren't
00:31:22.380 respecting the way
00:31:23.080 they think
00:31:23.460 they should be
00:31:23.940 respected
00:31:24.360 and then after
00:31:24.920 they do this
00:31:25.620 then they will
00:31:26.400 be known
00:31:26.940 and be respected
00:31:27.740 and get the respect
00:31:28.540 they think
00:31:29.780 they are entitled
00:31:31.120 to
00:31:31.360 is status defeat
00:31:33.400 connected
00:31:33.980 somehow to that
00:31:35.100 or are they
00:31:35.920 two completely
00:31:37.040 different issues
00:31:37.760 I attempt
00:31:39.720 to make that case
00:31:40.440 in the book
00:31:41.300 my data ended
00:31:42.800 in about
00:31:43.700 2007
00:31:44.580 2008
00:31:45.240 but if you look
00:31:47.940 at them
00:31:48.160 this is still
00:31:48.840 true today
00:31:49.440 males are
00:31:50.660 responsible
00:31:51.320 for at least
00:31:52.520 80% of all
00:31:53.540 violent crimes
00:31:54.360 the question
00:31:55.060 has to be asked
00:31:56.040 why is it
00:31:56.980 that it's almost
00:31:57.720 always males
00:31:59.280 perpetrating
00:32:00.220 these things
00:32:01.120 and again
00:32:01.440 it comes back
00:32:02.000 to my thesis
00:32:02.540 that males
00:32:03.600 are simply
00:32:04.300 more status
00:32:05.540 sensitive
00:32:05.960 they're more
00:32:06.700 sensitive to
00:32:07.360 status insults
00:32:08.760 than females
00:32:09.440 it's not that
00:32:10.060 females are not
00:32:11.280 subjected to these
00:32:12.040 pressures
00:32:12.320 80% of females
00:32:13.400 in America
00:32:14.080 don't like their
00:32:14.640 own bodies
00:32:15.160 as a result
00:32:16.040 of this media
00:32:16.680 pressure
00:32:17.100 that females
00:32:17.780 are putting
00:32:18.080 these unattainable
00:32:19.560 goals
00:32:19.920 to have this
00:32:20.440 idealized
00:32:22.400 quote unquote
00:32:23.020 perfect body
00:32:24.060 so females
00:32:25.260 are also
00:32:25.860 subjected to this
00:32:26.620 pressure
00:32:26.860 but the female
00:32:27.540 brain
00:32:28.200 responds
00:32:29.220 differently
00:32:29.880 to this
00:32:30.640 kind of
00:32:30.920 status insult
00:32:31.660 than the
00:32:32.280 male brain
00:32:32.720 does
00:32:33.060 so what are
00:32:34.600 the solutions
00:32:35.200 whenever these
00:32:36.700 sort of
00:32:37.440 shootings happen
00:32:39.160 or whenever
00:32:39.540 the travesty
00:32:40.200 happens
00:32:40.500 or whenever
00:32:40.880 we talk
00:32:41.280 about
00:32:41.500 there's always
00:32:42.480 sort of
00:32:42.700 these trite
00:32:43.220 responses
00:32:43.660 about well
00:32:44.140 the men
00:32:44.540 just need
00:32:44.860 to get
00:32:45.180 used to
00:32:45.700 this new
00:32:46.960 system
00:32:47.420 is that
00:32:49.480 the appropriate
00:32:50.100 response
00:32:50.600 or is there
00:32:51.000 something else
00:32:51.500 that we should
00:32:52.160 do
00:32:52.900 to
00:32:53.620 handle this
00:32:55.740 absolutely
00:32:56.260 not
00:32:56.680 absolutely
00:32:57.180 not
00:32:57.480 if we're
00:32:57.920 talking about
00:32:58.400 school shootings
00:32:59.040 first of all
00:33:00.380 I don't believe
00:33:00.860 that taking
00:33:01.300 guns away
00:33:01.880 will help
00:33:02.540 anything
00:33:02.880 I'm myself
00:33:03.960 back
00:33:04.980 arming
00:33:05.900 a trained
00:33:06.840 certified
00:33:07.340 individual
00:33:07.880 in schools
00:33:08.400 and we've
00:33:08.960 seen
00:33:09.240 that these
00:33:10.140 acts of school
00:33:10.900 violence can be
00:33:11.840 mitigated
00:33:12.500 reduced
00:33:13.100 and nipped
00:33:15.220 in the bud
00:33:15.640 earlier
00:33:16.160 when there is
00:33:17.480 a trained
00:33:17.980 person
00:33:18.700 in the school
00:33:19.600 but there are
00:33:20.120 clearly things
00:33:21.260 we need to do
00:33:22.000 to help
00:33:22.740 and again
00:33:23.100 it's primarily
00:33:23.780 young boys
00:33:25.060 who are
00:33:26.980 subjected
00:33:27.460 to status
00:33:28.000 defeat
00:33:28.380 often as a
00:33:29.240 result of
00:33:29.720 bullying
00:33:30.000 it could
00:33:30.540 be
00:33:30.800 and it's
00:33:31.660 often
00:33:31.920 boys that
00:33:32.880 have
00:33:33.600 B's and
00:33:34.640 A's
00:33:34.980 and their
00:33:35.260 grades
00:33:35.560 it's not
00:33:35.960 that they're
00:33:36.220 not smart
00:33:36.800 it's
00:33:38.200 boys that
00:33:39.180 might look
00:33:39.720 or behave
00:33:40.280 odd
00:33:40.660 and we
00:33:41.760 need to be
00:33:43.000 very careful
00:33:44.360 about stopping
00:33:45.500 bullying
00:33:45.860 and finding
00:33:46.840 places
00:33:47.500 where
00:33:49.680 help can be
00:33:50.700 given
00:33:50.960 to people
00:33:51.880 before
00:33:53.980 this kind
00:33:55.620 of violence
00:33:56.060 erupts
00:33:56.500 I advocate
00:33:57.640 in my book
00:33:58.260 that we
00:33:58.900 ought to be
00:33:59.400 ramping up
00:34:00.360 single-sex
00:34:01.880 schools
00:34:02.340 and it
00:34:03.720 should be
00:34:04.000 by choice
00:34:04.600 a parent
00:34:05.040 should not
00:34:05.400 be obligated
00:34:06.440 to send
00:34:06.760 their boy
00:34:07.120 to an
00:34:07.440 all-boys
00:34:07.840 school
00:34:08.160 but there
00:34:08.880 are about
00:34:09.100 500 in
00:34:09.720 the U.S.
00:34:10.100 now we
00:34:10.560 can see
00:34:11.160 that properly
00:34:11.680 managed
00:34:12.180 because boys
00:34:13.820 learn differently
00:34:14.820 than girls
00:34:15.460 this is
00:34:17.740 again politically
00:34:18.380 incorrect to
00:34:19.400 say that
00:34:19.780 but boys
00:34:20.520 are experiential
00:34:21.460 tangible learners
00:34:22.420 they're spatial
00:34:23.080 learners
00:34:23.460 in general
00:34:24.500 this is not
00:34:25.080 true of
00:34:25.560 everyone
00:34:25.900 girls learn
00:34:26.920 better in
00:34:27.360 the classroom
00:34:27.940 where you
00:34:28.620 sit down
00:34:29.240 and hear
00:34:29.500 lectures
00:34:29.920 just
00:34:31.860 the brains
00:34:32.940 are different
00:34:33.440 on average
00:34:34.420 and again
00:34:35.340 I'm avoiding
00:34:36.460 being politically
00:34:37.100 incorrect here
00:34:37.840 this doesn't
00:34:38.340 apply to
00:34:38.800 every girl
00:34:39.300 and every
00:34:39.640 boy
00:34:39.860 but there
00:34:40.980 should be
00:34:42.360 a greater
00:34:44.120 use
00:34:45.260 of single
00:34:46.520 sex schools
00:34:47.120 for parents
00:34:47.580 who wish
00:34:47.980 their child
00:34:48.640 to be in
00:34:49.020 sex schools
00:34:49.420 got to be
00:34:49.780 one solution
00:34:50.520 dealing with
00:34:51.740 bullying
00:34:52.020 very very
00:34:52.860 important
00:34:53.300 very important
00:34:54.420 that peers
00:34:55.040 if you look
00:34:56.120 at these
00:34:56.380 studies
00:34:56.700 at the
00:34:57.060 school
00:34:57.260 violence
00:34:57.660 you see
00:34:58.080 that in
00:34:58.420 many many
00:34:59.360 cases
00:34:59.720 80%
00:35:00.340 of cases
00:35:00.780 a peer
00:35:01.900 someone who
00:35:02.700 knew
00:35:03.060 the perpetrator
00:35:04.720 knew the
00:35:05.780 precise features
00:35:07.160 of the
00:35:07.840 violence plan
00:35:08.660 before it
00:35:09.780 was executed
00:35:10.440 schools should
00:35:11.540 pay very
00:35:12.320 great attention
00:35:12.940 to encouraging
00:35:14.080 peers to
00:35:15.080 report these
00:35:15.820 things to
00:35:16.660 the teacher
00:35:17.160 or to
00:35:17.520 the school
00:35:17.880 leaders
00:35:18.320 acting in
00:35:21.220 a humane
00:35:21.880 way
00:35:22.300 with people
00:35:23.260 who might
00:35:27.420 have such a
00:35:28.980 plan or plot
00:35:29.660 in mind
00:35:30.160 besides
00:35:32.880 these big
00:35:34.000 policy
00:35:34.600 ideas that
00:35:36.520 we can do
00:35:36.840 to mitigate
00:35:37.820 status defeat
00:35:39.700 and over
00:35:40.040 success
00:35:40.260 what about
00:35:40.800 an individual's
00:35:42.240 own life
00:35:43.220 and maybe
00:35:44.840 there's someone
00:35:45.180 who's out there
00:35:45.620 listening where
00:35:46.080 they feel like
00:35:46.460 they're just
00:35:46.780 frustrated
00:35:47.380 they don't
00:35:47.740 feel like
00:35:48.120 they're at
00:35:49.400 the amount
00:35:49.980 of success
00:35:50.640 or the level
00:35:51.120 of success
00:35:51.480 that they
00:35:51.860 should have
00:35:52.840 are there
00:35:53.720 things that
00:35:54.060 individuals can
00:35:54.700 do that
00:35:55.020 can take
00:35:55.720 the blunt
00:35:57.100 effects of
00:35:58.320 over success
00:35:59.100 yeah absolutely
00:36:00.820 the last chapter
00:36:01.860 of my book
00:36:02.220 has about
00:36:02.620 20 things
00:36:03.580 that we can
00:36:03.920 do
00:36:04.160 about half
00:36:04.700 of them
00:36:05.020 are things
00:36:05.560 that individuals
00:36:06.100 can do
00:36:06.480 the simplest
00:36:07.000 and the first
00:36:07.920 of my bullet
00:36:08.340 points
00:36:08.620 the first
00:36:09.020 of the 20
00:36:09.460 is that people
00:36:10.560 in America
00:36:11.800 and throughout
00:36:12.960 the world
00:36:13.360 but in America
00:36:13.960 here
00:36:14.260 we ought to
00:36:15.060 start being
00:36:15.620 polite
00:36:16.240 and responsive
00:36:17.380 to one another
00:36:17.980 when we're
00:36:18.320 walking down
00:36:18.820 the street
00:36:19.320 nod and
00:36:20.640 smile at the
00:36:21.240 person
00:36:21.540 complete stranger
00:36:22.520 you may never
00:36:23.040 see them again
00:36:23.620 but nod and
00:36:24.220 smile at that
00:36:24.700 person
00:36:24.980 you will
00:36:25.760 brighten that
00:36:26.520 person's day
00:36:27.360 you could
00:36:28.020 change that
00:36:28.580 person's life
00:36:29.340 in a particular
00:36:29.900 time
00:36:30.260 hold the door
00:36:31.080 for someone
00:36:31.520 don't be
00:36:31.980 obnoxious
00:36:32.820 about it
00:36:33.300 you know
00:36:33.840 if someone
00:36:34.140 is within
00:36:34.600 a few
00:36:35.060 five or ten
00:36:35.760 steps of
00:36:36.580 the rear
00:36:37.060 hold the door
00:36:38.000 open for them
00:36:38.560 regardless of
00:36:39.140 how old
00:36:39.660 or young
00:36:40.020 or what
00:36:40.300 sex they
00:36:40.660 are
00:36:40.800 hold the
00:36:41.340 door for
00:36:41.660 them
00:36:41.880 so
00:36:43.240 be kind
00:36:45.660 say please
00:36:46.460 say thank
00:36:47.080 you
00:36:47.560 chivalrous
00:36:48.580 I see that
00:36:49.180 on your
00:36:49.740 art of
00:36:50.000 manliness
00:36:50.320 website
00:36:50.800 the renewal
00:36:52.900 of male
00:36:55.020 chivalrous
00:36:56.000 roles
00:36:56.440 both sexes
00:36:57.280 ought to do
00:36:57.600 this
00:36:57.800 and again
00:36:58.540 what this
00:36:59.020 does
00:36:59.300 it creates
00:36:59.900 a warm
00:37:03.820 place for
00:37:04.680 people
00:37:05.020 possibly in a
00:37:06.340 moment in their
00:37:06.800 lives when they
00:37:07.380 need this
00:37:07.860 they can
00:37:08.380 make a
00:37:08.660 difference
00:37:08.900 another
00:37:09.340 thing we
00:37:09.740 can do
00:37:10.100 that is
00:37:11.000 personal
00:37:11.780 and this
00:37:12.140 is for
00:37:12.400 ourselves
00:37:12.820 be rational
00:37:14.020 about the
00:37:14.780 goals
00:37:15.200 that we
00:37:15.780 set
00:37:16.080 for ourselves
00:37:17.420 be rational
00:37:17.980 about the
00:37:18.440 goals you
00:37:18.840 select for
00:37:19.240 yourself
00:37:19.520 I use the
00:37:20.520 50% rule
00:37:21.200 select goals
00:37:22.260 that you're
00:37:22.960 about 50%
00:37:24.160 likely to
00:37:25.160 attain in
00:37:25.700 your life
00:37:26.120 you don't
00:37:26.540 want to
00:37:26.800 select goals
00:37:27.500 that are
00:37:27.740 impossible
00:37:28.160 if you're
00:37:29.040 not good
00:37:29.400 at running
00:37:29.800 don't try
00:37:30.580 to become
00:37:31.020 an Olympic
00:37:31.520 runner
00:37:31.860 it's just
00:37:32.840 going to
00:37:33.460 frustrate
00:37:33.820 you
00:37:34.180 select goals
00:37:35.780 where you
00:37:36.340 have the
00:37:37.120 talents
00:37:37.560 the aptitudes
00:37:38.940 the social
00:37:40.000 networks
00:37:40.540 that are
00:37:41.580 feasible
00:37:41.960 in your
00:37:42.480 own life
00:37:42.920 and don't
00:37:44.060 perpetually
00:37:44.700 set goals
00:37:45.580 that are
00:37:45.780 impossible
00:37:46.200 for yourself
00:37:47.280 30% of
00:37:49.520 American
00:37:49.940 teenagers
00:37:50.960 think they're
00:37:51.640 going to
00:37:51.800 become famous
00:37:52.380 someday
00:37:52.760 and they
00:37:53.280 literally
00:37:53.580 structure
00:37:54.100 their lives
00:37:54.900 and Facebook
00:37:56.340 is a culprit
00:37:57.000 here about
00:37:57.800 trying to
00:37:58.200 become famous
00:37:58.860 on Facebook
00:37:59.400 or by some
00:38:00.500 other means
00:38:00.980 that's not
00:38:03.160 a realistic
00:38:03.740 goal
00:38:04.120 so that's
00:38:04.760 something
00:38:05.000 that an
00:38:05.320 individual
00:38:05.580 can do
00:38:06.060 set
00:38:06.620 rational
00:38:07.180 goals
00:38:07.580 for
00:38:07.760 yourself
00:38:08.160 something
00:38:10.720 that's
00:38:11.000 more
00:38:11.160 structural
00:38:11.620 than
00:38:11.860 individuals
00:38:12.300 can
00:38:12.560 participate
00:38:12.920 in
00:38:13.080 I call
00:38:13.440 them
00:38:13.680 new
00:38:14.200 villages
00:38:14.580 and again
00:38:15.320 I talked
00:38:16.400 about
00:38:16.720 the
00:38:17.660 natural
00:38:18.580 evolutionary
00:38:20.020 adaptiveness
00:38:21.260 of human
00:38:22.200 beings
00:38:22.580 to small
00:38:23.400 stable
00:38:24.100 groups
00:38:24.580 where we
00:38:25.340 know one
00:38:25.760 another
00:38:26.060 and we
00:38:26.760 are with
00:38:27.720 one another
00:38:28.100 face to
00:38:28.560 face over
00:38:29.060 long periods
00:38:29.700 of time
00:38:30.140 and we
00:38:30.520 form durable
00:38:31.460 relationships
00:38:32.060 we know
00:38:32.800 one another
00:38:33.220 to the extent
00:38:33.840 to know
00:38:34.200 who's good
00:38:34.660 at what
00:38:35.000 and who's
00:38:35.260 not so good
00:38:35.740 at what
00:38:36.400 and roles
00:38:37.300 are found
00:38:37.820 in such
00:38:38.300 groups
00:38:38.560 I call
00:38:39.540 them new
00:38:39.940 villages
00:38:40.340 and we
00:38:41.040 can install
00:38:42.160 these new
00:38:42.860 villages
00:38:43.240 in our
00:38:43.840 workplaces
00:38:44.480 and in our
00:38:45.580 communities
00:38:46.000 we ought to be
00:38:47.020 working very
00:38:47.740 hard in
00:38:48.260 America
00:38:48.600 at finding
00:38:49.540 alternatives
00:38:50.200 to these
00:38:51.060 mass scale
00:38:51.920 organizations
00:38:52.620 composed of
00:38:53.940 millions of
00:38:54.440 people where
00:38:54.940 only one or
00:38:55.580 two or ten
00:38:56.120 people can
00:38:56.600 be recognized
00:38:57.320 a company
00:38:58.880 I like to
00:38:59.760 and I
00:39:00.120 point this
00:39:00.440 out in my
00:39:00.800 book
00:39:00.960 a company
00:39:01.280 called
00:39:01.580 W.L.
00:39:02.440 Gore
00:39:02.740 they make
00:39:03.200 Gore-Tex
00:39:03.720 they're a
00:39:04.640 large company
00:39:05.160 with several
00:39:05.900 thousand employees
00:39:06.780 but they
00:39:07.200 break their
00:39:08.140 work groups
00:39:08.800 into not
00:39:09.600 greater than
00:39:10.120 150 or
00:39:11.040 200 people
00:39:11.700 when a
00:39:12.040 work group
00:39:12.480 making a
00:39:12.940 particular
00:39:13.220 product or
00:39:13.840 service
00:39:14.180 gets bigger
00:39:14.900 than that
00:39:15.300 they have
00:39:16.480 a corporate
00:39:17.080 policy to
00:39:17.680 break the
00:39:18.160 group down
00:39:18.600 they literally
00:39:19.160 build buildings
00:39:20.680 that are
00:39:21.060 sized to hold
00:39:22.700 only 200 or so
00:39:23.580 people
00:39:23.880 and they build
00:39:24.820 new buildings
00:39:25.440 and break
00:39:25.980 groups down
00:39:26.560 into new
00:39:26.960 work groups
00:39:27.520 when they get
00:39:28.400 bigger than that
00:39:29.040 and they do
00:39:29.600 that specifically
00:39:30.460 so that people
00:39:31.440 know one another
00:39:32.120 and in each
00:39:33.180 work group
00:39:33.740 leaders of that
00:39:34.940 group are
00:39:35.380 selected bottom
00:39:36.380 up by consensus
00:39:37.300 people bid for
00:39:38.560 the opportunity
00:39:39.180 to lead work
00:39:40.060 groups in W.L.
00:39:41.240 Gore based
00:39:42.320 upon their
00:39:42.820 ability to sell
00:39:43.640 themselves to
00:39:44.840 other people
00:39:45.500 to their peers
00:39:46.280 in their work
00:39:46.840 group so you
00:39:47.600 can structure a
00:39:48.480 large and this
00:39:49.100 is a very
00:39:49.580 profitable private
00:39:50.440 organization W.L.
00:39:51.400 Gore but they
00:39:51.860 structured their
00:39:53.300 corporate organization
00:39:54.260 around the
00:39:55.680 natural human
00:39:56.800 tendency to
00:39:58.120 want to
00:39:58.820 thrive and
00:40:00.020 be recognized
00:40:00.800 in groups that
00:40:02.100 are small
00:40:02.560 enough so
00:40:03.280 that almost
00:40:03.740 everyone in
00:40:04.420 that group
00:40:04.820 can be
00:40:05.160 recognized for
00:40:05.780 something so
00:40:06.920 another thing
00:40:08.000 that I speak
00:40:08.420 about in the
00:40:08.820 boat have
00:40:09.600 friendships that
00:40:10.360 the number of
00:40:11.700 Americans who
00:40:12.360 have zero
00:40:12.940 friends and
00:40:13.580 this is good
00:40:14.080 social science
00:40:14.820 data has been
00:40:15.920 cut in half
00:40:16.880 over the past
00:40:17.540 30 years
00:40:18.060 about a quarter
00:40:18.900 of Americans
00:40:19.460 report having
00:40:20.160 no friends
00:40:21.200 whatsoever so
00:40:22.620 friendships are
00:40:23.760 one of the
00:40:24.080 most highly
00:40:26.500 important things
00:40:27.360 obviously loving
00:40:28.440 relationships are
00:40:29.180 important but
00:40:29.960 friendships durable
00:40:31.220 long-range
00:40:32.160 friendships where
00:40:32.920 you can share
00:40:33.480 deep stuff very
00:40:35.100 very important to
00:40:35.960 human lives you've
00:40:36.620 got to spend a lot
00:40:37.380 more attention on
00:40:38.120 this and instead
00:40:38.720 of looking to get
00:40:39.700 a bigger car a
00:40:40.580 bigger house a
00:40:41.380 bigger boat you
00:40:43.100 know a prettier
00:40:43.800 face think about
00:40:45.700 getting a friend
00:40:46.800 or two so
00:40:47.900 there's there's
00:40:48.480 some examples of
00:40:49.180 things that we can
00:40:50.060 do individually
00:40:50.700 fantastic well
00:40:52.040 Jim Rubens this
00:40:52.760 has been a just a
00:40:53.600 fascinating discussion
00:40:54.840 thank you for so
00:40:56.560 much thank you so
00:40:57.240 much for your time
00:40:57.720 it's been a
00:40:58.160 pleasure okay
00:40:59.940 thank you for
00:41:01.140 having me very
00:41:01.740 very appreciative of
00:41:02.760 this question our
00:41:03.940 guest today was
00:41:04.460 Jim Rubens he's
00:41:05.200 the author of the
00:41:05.780 book over success
00:41:06.780 healing the
00:41:07.320 American obsession
00:41:08.120 with wealth fame
00:41:09.040 power and
00:41:09.580 perfection you can
00:41:10.340 find that on
00:41:10.840 amazon.com go out
00:41:12.300 and get it it's a
00:41:12.800 really fascinating
00:41:13.620 reading you'll get
00:41:14.180 a lot out of it
00:41:14.860 well that wraps up
00:41:18.760 another edition of
00:41:19.620 the art of
00:41:20.140 manliness podcast
00:41:20.880 for more manly
00:41:21.700 tips and advice
00:41:22.340 make sure to check
00:41:23.040 out the art of
00:41:23.580 manliness website
00:41:24.360 at art of
00:41:24.800 manliness.com and
00:41:26.260 again if you enjoy
00:41:26.900 this podcast you feel
00:41:27.780 like you're getting
00:41:28.080 something out of it
00:41:28.660 I'd really appreciate
00:41:29.420 it if you'd go give
00:41:30.160 us a review on
00:41:30.840 iTunes or Stitcher
00:41:32.000 a lot of you have
00:41:33.080 done that for me I
00:41:33.880 really appreciate it
00:41:34.740 your feedback will
00:41:36.000 help us improve the
00:41:36.680 site and you're
00:41:37.500 giving your view
00:41:38.000 will help spread the
00:41:38.780 word about the art of
00:41:39.580 manliness podcast so
00:41:40.740 until next time this is
00:41:41.560 Brett McKay telling
00:41:42.280 you to stay manly
00:41:44.700 morning
00:41:47.840 you
00:41:55.640 you
00:41:56.080 you
00:41:56.480 you
00:41:57.800 You