#139： The Secrets of a Perfect Shave With Mark Herro
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Summary
Mark Hero is the original godfather of internet wet shaving. He holds the world record for teaching the most men on the internet how to shave. He's taught literally millions of men how to properly shave properly using a safety razor using the straight edge and using other shaving implements as well.
Transcript
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rep mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so the very first
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article i published on the art of manliness was an article called how to shave like your grandpa
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and it's an article about traditional wet shaving with a safety razor and it's the article that
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really it put art of manliness on the map that's how a lot of people have found us that was back in 2008
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since then we've done some other articles about shaving how to shave with a straight razor how to
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shave how to do about shaver shave nicks and things like that but today on the podcast i've got the
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original godfather of internet wet shaving his name is mark hero probably have seen his youtube videos
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goes under the name mantic 59 on youtube and through his wet shaving videos this guy's probably taught
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more men to shave than any other guy that's taught literally millions of men how to shave properly
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using a safety razor using the straight edge and using other implements as well besides his youtube
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channel mark has this website about shaving called sharpologist and today on the podcast we're going
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to discuss all things wet shaving the benefits of safety razors if you've been curious about trying
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the double-edged safety razor maybe we'll convince you to do it we talk about what you can do to get
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a better shave closer shave technique to get a close shave and comfortable shave as well talk a
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little bit about straight razor shaving and we talk a bit about the future of shaving shavings is
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something a lot of men do every day so you'll probably find this really interesting get some
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great practical tips you can start applying right away if you got a beard this podcast you probably
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want to skip and i'll have a beard guy on sometime later anyways really great show without further
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ado mark hero and traditional wet shaving all right mark hero welcome to the show thank you thank you for
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having me all right so i know a lot of our listeners are familiar with your work you probably hold the
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world record for teaching the most men how to shave how did you become everyone's dad on the internet
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when it comes to shaving actually the uh the whole thing is kind of random and uh it started about
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oh almost six years uh almost 10 years ago when i had received a camcorder for uh a a prize for a
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conference i attended and at the time coincidentally one of the uh forums i was on
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related to old school shaving uh started talking about this new service called youtube and
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how somebody should make a video on how to uh shave with old school equipment and i sort of took it as
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the gauntlet being thrown down and uh made some test video and showed it to the guys on the forum and
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they all seemed to actually like it so i put it up on the on youtube and it languished there
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uh for a few weeks as i figured it probably would and then somebody
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coincidental takeoff in fact i still to this day get referrals from lifehacker onto my video page
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so that's one of the first things that really started it and i just kept on going and i think
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partly organically and partly uh due to some uh uh lucky coincidences uh all of a sudden the the videos
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took off and i now have over eight million video views of uh something that would normally be totally
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random uh shaving uh and uh i'm i'm actually uh doing it full time now as of uh uh as of april i retired
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from my uh nine to five desk job took early retirement and i'm doing videos and my sharpologist website full
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time that's crazy so you're making a living teaching something that most guys should have learned from their
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dad that's true and the thing is most people haven't learned uh to shave properly from their dad or
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whoever and it's uh i've kind of become their second dad like you said yeah yeah and why do you think that
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is because like you know shaving is one of those things you think that oh yeah dad should like sit
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down and like tell his kid here's how you shave but for me like my dad didn't do that i sort of uh
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what my first shaving experience was i snuck in to his bathroom and uh bogarted one of his razors
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from his dop kit and then tried to shave on my own i ended up like taking off a chunk of my lip
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and it was really embarrassing because everyone knew like i was like 12 right and i hadn't i hardly had
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any peach fuzz so everyone knew what i was doing it was really embarrassing um but i mean is that how
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most guys learn how to shave they sort of do it on their own you know i i think though i think so
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these days uh you know for me i actually learned with a electric razor i shaved with an electric
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razor for 30 odd years my dad had an electric uh he handed me his old one and i stuck with electrics
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for 30 years before i kind of saw the light and and uh tried uh traditional shaving uh largely due to
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a young woman in my life who is now my wife uh who wanted uh to caress my smoothly freshly shaven face
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and wanted it wanted it more smooth than i can get with an electric shaver but um getting back to
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your question i think a lot of it is people relying on the media uh they they see uh tv commercials about
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how easy shaving is supposed to be with the with the latest 27 bladed razor uh or uh or zip zip with an
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electric razor done in two minutes kind of thing and i think the the skill set the learning curve
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uh has largely been lost to external forces now it's not that difficult to pick up it's not that
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difficult to learn in some cases you have to kind of unlearn some bad habits but uh i think part of this is
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is the the time involved uh with just wanting to get something done and and get on with your life
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and another problem is other people uh just don't want to spend the time uh to pass something on
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yeah so and here's the i mean so why is there this just this interest right this explosion and interest
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in traditional wet shaving like you said the video on lifehacker like i posted life has gone bonkers
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you know over 8 million views i mean what's what's going on there you know i think it's it's two
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different reasons i think one reason is purely economic purely financial uh i think when the the latest
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five blade razor came on the market about oh four or five years now that people saw the
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the prices for a cartridge refill and and thought to themselves this is insane why should i be paying
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this much and so they go looking for an alternative looking for something less expensive the other
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reason i think kind of goes back to what i was just saying about uh taking the time to to pass
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something on i think some people are kind of longing for that that family connection that that connection to a
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previous generation that maybe took things a little slower a little easier a little more leisurely or
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just wanting to reconnect with a family memory you know there i don't know how many people have
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mentioned to me their memory of when they were a child uh sitting in the bathroom watching their
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father shave and i think they want to recapture that in some respect and this is one way of doing it
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yeah yeah what shaving definitely provides it's a ritual in a lot yeah yeah in a lot of ways it is
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yeah and uh yeah that connection between families so for example i have the uh gelette safety razor that
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my grandfather used oh nice and i'm still using it and the things like i don't know 60 years old
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yeah um and um i also have my great-grandfather's straight razor oh wow and you know have had it
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restored and it's just cool the thing i mean the thing's over 100 years old yeah and it's like my
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great-grandfather used this and my grandfather used this and now i'm using it and it's just it's nice
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to have that connection right it's i get a lot of that kind of comment it's a real family or
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historical connection that really appeals to people all right so a lot of your videos um and
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instruction is geared towards the safety razor right uh i know if you're listening the art of
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manly's podcast you probably know what a safety razor is but there might be a few who don't know what
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it is uh can you describe what a safety razor is and what are the benefits of shaving with this type
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of razor okay well at its base description a safety razor is a a bladed razor usually one blade now
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the some people think that cartridge razors are a form of safety razors and that's fine but uh for
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for our purposes let's assume a safety razor is a single blade with either one or two edges typically
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two and what most people associated it with is the old gillette uh twist to open uh single blade
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double-edged razor that as you said your father or grandfather might have used uh that really became
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famous in the 40s 50s and 60s and so i mean what are the the benefits of of using this type of razor i
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mean like look i mean you the marketing on these multi-blade razors like well you got multi-blades
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you can get done faster you can get closer to the skin are there benefits to this type of blade
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absolutely uh absolutely the first is purely economic the cost of a safety razor blade in bulk
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is a fraction of the price of the typical cartridge
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um it varies slightly anywhere from under a quarter to maybe 75 cents so average about
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25 to 50 cents per blade in bulk uh so there's a a huge difference right there from the typical
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cartridge also a safety razor a single razor will tend to give you less irritation
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uh than a multi-blade cartridge uh typically a single blade cartridge pardon me a typically a safety
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razor blade uh does take a little longer to use but not much but the shave you can get with it
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is equal to or better than a cartridge as long as you're using proper technique and proper products
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yeah that's one thing i one of the reasons i made the switch over to safety razor shaving initially was
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with the multi blades i was getting just really bad bumps my skin just my face was just red and just
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felt terrible after i shaved it was really close right i didn't have any like super smooth uh no no uh
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whisker sticking out but it just was irritated as all get out right and that's largely due to the
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the lift and cut technology of the typical cartridge or what i like to call the the the yank and slice
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uh the concept is called hysteresis and the the problem with that is that as you said it can really
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create some real problems with the skin with a safety razor blade as long as you are properly
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preparing the face and have a good lather you don't need a lift and cut technology because
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the hair will be about 25 percent more flexible and slightly ease out of its follicle so using a single
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blade will give you the same type of shave as a multi-blade but with a lot less irritation so let's
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talk about the the prep that goes on because a lot of guys who are using the multi-blade cartridges like
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they might some of guys i've seen guys just use like splash on water and then shave right with these
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things um in order to get a good comfortable shave with the safety razor there's a little more prep
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involved so what are the steps that are involved to get a super close comfortable shave with the safety
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razor sure actually it should be the same as with any razor and as you said a lot of people don't do
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it but the first step is properly cleaning and hydrating the area to be shaved which we'll assume
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is the face and that means lots and lots of hot water and a gentle soap uh what you don't want to
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use is a body bar or a deodorant bar because it strips away too much of the natural oil on the skin
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that you really need in conjunction with the shave product to get a a good shave with so a gentle
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cleaning with a facial soap or a facial cleanser kind of thing even something like noxzema will work
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great along with lots and lots of warm water will clean the skin hydrate the skin and and soften the
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stubble to the point where you can get a proper shave really with any razor and i mean what about
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the badger brushes a lot of people associate like if you're going to shave with the safety razor you
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need a badger brush do you need a badger brush you know a badger brush is not required but it sure makes
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it a lot nicer uh and i should say a brush in general you know it doesn't have to be badger there
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are certainly uh other hair brushes available anything from horse hair to boar hair to even synthetics
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and as long as you get something uh reasonably well built it really can make a difference in that
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it will spread that lather much more evenly kind of surround each individual hair follicle
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kind of wash away or swipe away the tiny bits of debris that might be uh next to a a follicle of hair
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and just generally performs better but it's not required okay well you talked about like it in a lot
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of the shaving forms in the shaving content out there that everyone's like badger hair is the the standard why
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is badger seen as like the standard for a good shaving brush badger hair is one of the few types of
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animal hair that hold water really well most animals want to uh shed water off of their hair
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or their fur but the badger can actually retain water and others can as well i mean as i said the
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boar and the the horse come to mind but badgers do it best okay yeah i've had a boar brush the one
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thing i'd had problems with like it smells yeah the funk yeah uh been there done that yeah it takes
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a while for you to go away it's sort of like soak your brush for a bit and then after a while the
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scent will go away and that's really something any natural hair brush will have to some extent
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some manufacturers treat the brush better than others so i've had plenty of badger hair brushes that
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had quite a bit of funk on them uh horse can be pretty funky uh and as you said all it really takes is
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some shampooing with a good uh a good animal hair shampoo or even just some some lather from a uh from a
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shaving product massaged in really good rinsed a few times and after a week or so a week or two
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the funk largely disappears and and you don't smell anything except uh the the shaving lather you're
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working with okay so for those who are listening and they're like i want to start doing this
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are there some brands you recommend that are like good starter brands because the one thing
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people who get into uh old school shaving is that it can get really expensive really fast if you let it
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uh that's true yes and it can become like a hobby and in a very expensive hobby um you probably know
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well know this um but i mean are there some good like starter brands if someone wants to give you know
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safety razors shaving a try yeah there are some actual some actually some some good brands out there um
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um something that is widely available in the united states uh through places like uh the large
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uh franchises the large department stores you'll often see a brand named van der hagen they have a
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uh a set available uh that has a inexpensive boar hair brush and a a mug and some uh some uh some
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shaving soap and you can find the basic version for under ten dollars or the much better premium set for
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only about twenty five dollars and as i said you'll probably find them fairly widely available in the
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united states uh as a as a side note i actually visited van der hagen last month by coincidence
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uh and saw their manufacturing and distribution facility and it was incredible uh you often in in this
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game you often talk to the shaving artisans where they make uh a few batches of shaving soap or shaving
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cream at a time van der hagen makes their shaving soaps thirty thousand pucks at a time whoa and their
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distribution center has semi trucks pull up to it with pallets of these things going out to
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walmart walgreens target wherever and and it's that way every single day it's the place is just
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insane i'm going to do a actually an article about it on my website sharpologist here and maybe next
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month and with some photographs and everything because it really was impressive they're also starting to
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sell a safety razor uh it's probably available in most of the same outlets it's a decent quality maybe not
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the best out there but certainly adequate to start with and that's about twenty to twenty five dollars as well
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for this safety razor so that is certainly one brand that is widely available amazon has a number of other
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uh options obviously the the two most popular double-edged razors uh without a doubt right now are the mere core
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model 34c which is also called the heavy duty and the edwin jagger de 89 which actually has a number of
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different handle types but the same shaving head all to it uh and they're available in many different
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online sources amazon is the easy one of course uh but those two are the easy recommendation because
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so many people have them so many people have great uh uh great shaves with them and uh they're reasonably
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well built and not overly expensive okay any shaving soaps you recommend sure uh again getting into sort
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of the the mass market thing uh you're starting to see a brand now pacific shaving they have a
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caffeinated shaving soap and aftershave that is excellent uh another fairly widely available brand it's uh
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cream oh cream cream which is really a brushless cream but is brush friendly you can use it with a
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brush if you wanted to uh that is also widely available uh of the other brands uh you'll start
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seeing names like trumpers truefit and hill taylor of old bond street those are uh what's referred to as
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the three t's in the hobby they are high-end but they are widely available and for the most part excellent
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um another excellent name is dr harris and i should should mention all those brands are uh are british
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brands um then there are a number of artisan uh soap and cream manufacturers that uh make very good
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products but are less widely available okay so i mean what about you do a lot about safety razor
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shaving do you do anything about straight razor shaving i do uh i'm not a big fan of straight
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razor shaving myself frankly i'm just not as good as it as i'd like to be i suppose if i practiced a
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little more i would be uh i just prefer the double-edged razor for some reason uh i do use a a straight
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razor in fact i'm just in the finishing stages of putting together a sort of an online class for
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straight razor shaving where i kind of go through some uh i don't want to say shortcuts but some
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things you can do to shorten the learning curve and make it a little bit easier but i must say that for
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myself for some reason i just prefer the the weight and the technology of the double-edged razor over
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the straight but a lot of people love straight razors don't get me wrong yeah yeah yeah i've i've
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do this right i don't do it all that often because you're right there is a very uh steep learning curve
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with the straight razor um and if you don't do it right you'll slice your ear you're not that corner
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um so yeah i'll probably do it just every now and then when i want to when i got some time i want
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to treat myself yeah exactly a nice straight razor shave i know we've been dogging on the multi-blade
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cartridges but have like have the big companies that make the multi-blade cartridges have they
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responded in any ways are they doing anything to improve the shaving experience because of this uh
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i mean there's a return to safety you know single double blade double-edged blade razors shaving
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uh i think uh they've noticed it but they are uh so ingrained in their walled garden that provides a
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uh a known profit margin for them that they are unwilling to really take a big step back now that
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does not mean that they haven't for example in the india market uh gillette tried to introduce
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a multi-bladed cartridge and the population just didn't really go for it mostly because it was too
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expensive for them so they came up with a razor called the gillette guard which is a single blade
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in a in a cartridge but it's one blade and very inexpensive except for the blade it's it's all
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plastic but it does have a pivot to the head and reintroduce that into the market of india and has been
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quite successful with it but they've used the gillette guard as sort of a third world low-cost entry product
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uh and haven't haven't really taken it anywhere else now some enterprising vendors have actually
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imported the gillette guard from india and you can buy them online here in the united states if you
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want to try them they're only like two dollars and they work okay i mean they're not bad so that is is
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one thing another i think is uh they are getting a little more into the pivoting technology which is
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nice to see that's kind of one thing i will credit the uh the the large shaving manufacturers for i think
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the the pivot is a good idea um and lately they've kind of taken it to the next step with the the ball
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type concept which i don't really think personally gets you that much more but it's still an interesting
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technology to investigate and if someone would make a single blade with a good pivot i think it would uh
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i think it would work very well for a lot of people yeah one thing i noticed they've been doing is you
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know especially gillette in their marketing talking about the the economy of shaving with their blades so
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they'll talk about well you know you buy this blade it's gonna last you four weeks or five you
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know five weeks because i think they're responding to that criticism that man these things are really
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expensive to buy um and and you can you you can shave for a lot less a lot less money using a safety
00:27:33.520
razor why would i shave with you guys so i've been seeing their marketing on tv and in the magazines like
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oh well you know if you look if you do the the dollar the average you know the cost per use it's
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actually really affordable but if you look at the uh the fine print on that they also say they are
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assuming that you only shave two or three times a week ah okay there's the rub there's the rub if
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you shave every day the the the cartridge life is pretty much the same uh no matter what the brand you
00:28:04.720
get you will get slightly longer life out of some cartridges than other cartridges some brands versus
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other brands but uh they kind of play fast and loose with uh with the longevity by assuming that
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you're not going to shave as much as you did before okay let's get in some some brass tacks
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tips about how to get some better get a better shave uh what can you do for shaving hard places like the
00:28:32.000
neck and the jawline okay well part of it goes back to uh adequate preparation making sure that skin
00:28:42.240
and that stubble is as ready as it can be for the shave and then when you do shave uh shave
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the flattest parts first even if you're even if your razor has a pivot it still works best if you
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don't actually follow the contours of the area but sort of look at it like a diamond and shave the the
00:29:12.960
flat parts the facets first uh then go back and re-lather and shave again from a different direction
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and slowly reduce the stubble to an acceptable uh level rather than try and lop it off all at once
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so yeah let's talk about that that whole reduction versus removing um this brings up the point like
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shaving with the grain or against the grain what is the best way to go about that sure well and for
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those who need to understand the concept if you rub your your face in different directions it'll feel
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rougher in some directions and smoother in others the direction that it feels the smoothest is the grain
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of that beard area and it might change depending on the the area of your face you're you're touching so
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the idea is to get the safest most comfortable shave by first shaving with the grain reduce the bulk of
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the stubble so it's comfortable and does not get irritated and then go back and re-lather and shave
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across the grain that is a direction 90 degrees from the direction of the grain and then if you want
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uh re-lather again if you want a still closer shave and shave uh against the grain but the one thing
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that will be uh sure to produce irritation right away is if you try and shave against the grain right
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away because you want to reduce reduce the bulk of the uh the uh beard uh most carefully what happens
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if you i mean is what's happening is is it you're increasing the chance of ingrown hairs by doing
00:31:03.200
that is that what the irritation comes from that is partly that is partly the uh the the issue yes uh
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ingrown and just razor burn redness uh uh taking off more hair than the skin is ready to give
00:31:18.800
up at that point gotcha what can you do about razor bumps and irritation that you might get even if
00:31:24.320
you're super careful it might come up what can you do to help uh treat that right well the best way to
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treat it is to prevent it and the best way to prevent it is to use a a good quality sharp blade uh don't
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try and use your blade for longer than its lifespan uh use a really good shaving product and take it
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carefully take a little time to do it correctly rather than just take mindless swipes at your face
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that being said there are a few treatments you can do uh afterward uh a good uh shave balm
00:32:05.120
will certainly help uh something that is relatively inexpensive and widely available i like to
00:32:11.280
recommend is nivea for men sensitive uh the sensitive version does not have dyes or artificial fragrance
00:32:21.520
and it works very well to calm the skin um i would advise against using a high alcohol content
00:32:31.200
aftershave splash because that will just dry out the skin even more and make make it even worse
00:32:38.000
uh there is a new product by grooming lounge called the shaver s-h-a-v-i-o-r that is made to treat
00:32:48.160
bumps irritation and ingrowns with regular use and it actually works pretty well i i used it uh
00:32:55.680
i evaluated it for several months a while back for myself and and it works pretty well um beyond that
00:33:03.680
uh a good rinse with warm water followed by cool water after the shave is also uh can be helpful for
00:33:12.800
avoiding those little uh little white pimply looking dots that often come up for some people
00:33:19.440
uh which is in a lot a lot a lot of times just simply lather residue that's been left on the face
00:33:26.480
and just rinsing that off thoroughly will will take care of that and then of course if you get a serious
00:33:32.560
cut a nick uh something like uh a uh a nick stick uh or uh an alum block or something like that will uh
00:33:45.360
treat those types of uh more serious cuts okay what about uh toilet paper is that like last resort
00:33:54.400
yeah if you need to sure yeah i let plenty of people do it i've done it myself on occasion
00:33:59.120
the toilet paper yeah i had to get put a band-aid on my lip when i my first shave it was pretty bad
00:34:05.120
yeah um are there any myths out there about what you know wet shaving that you see even in the wet
00:34:11.040
shaving community like you know set over and over and over again sure yeah certainly in the major
00:34:18.400
mainstream media the number of blades uh is largely one of the least important things about a razor uh
00:34:31.680
really the fewer blades the better in a lot of cases uh if somebody is getting a better shave with
00:34:38.480
with with a razor that happens to have more blades it is more likely due to the
00:34:45.680
uh blade technology of the razor that is not related to the number of blades it might be the
00:34:53.440
metallurgy of the blade has changed there may have they may have changed a non-stick coating they may
00:34:58.240
have changed the design of the razor head and that plays more of a role than the actual number of
00:35:04.240
blades in fact uh to my knowledge there has never been a peer-reviewed uh survey or or
00:35:14.880
test of multi-bladed razors that concluded more blades was better from somebody that did not have
00:35:23.680
the test funded by one of the big razor blade brands um another semi-myth is
00:35:33.760
the idea of the grain certainly if you are using a multi-blade cartridge you you really do need to
00:35:40.800
go with the grain but if you're using a safety razor you can cheat uh you can go in the general
00:35:49.040
direction of the grain uh without going through every little nook and cranny in fact i advocate when
00:35:57.840
you're learning a single blade safety razor to simply go straight down don't follow the grain
00:36:04.480
at all just go straight down it's more important to learn how to hold the razor properly and maybe not
00:36:11.600
get the best shaves in the world at first uh then to try and follow every little direction of
00:36:19.440
the the grain of your beard so that's sort of a myth um
00:36:24.320
um uh the uh another myth is uh that the the high-end badger brushes that cost several hundred
00:36:37.040
dollars and are uh gathered from badgers that are living high up in the mountains in some uh far
00:36:46.800
off land they're magical badgers the magical badgers will give you a significantly better shave
00:36:52.640
uh than a low-end brush uh certainly they can feel a lot better uh and at some point
00:37:02.640
some of the mid grades do perform noticeably better than the lower grades but after a point
00:37:09.680
after some price point and level of hair quality uh the amount of uh performance you get back
00:37:22.560
is not related to the hair itself but simply the the luxury of the experience gotcha so there's no need
00:37:29.360
to spend two hundred dollars on a shaving oh absolutely not you can spend for a good solid uh really
00:37:36.480
good performing brush you can do that for well under 75 dollars and it'll last you years uh some people
00:37:44.400
say that uh shaving brushes can last a lifetime personally i i don't go for that uh a badger brush is a
00:37:54.400
is a tool that does wear out but you can certainly make them last five to ten years with with no problem
00:38:00.800
at all and then uh get yourself uh something else down the line awesome well mark where can people
00:38:08.640
find more about your work okay well obviously my youtube channel is is where i become uh known first
00:38:16.320
and that is uh my youtube channel name is mantic 59 and then my related website which also has links to
00:38:25.760
the videos and a number of other resources is sharpologist.com awesome well mark hero is uh
00:38:34.080
thank you so much for your time it has been a pleasure thank you i appreciate your time our guest
00:38:38.880
there is mark hero he's the owner of the website sharpologist.com and you can also find his youtube
00:38:44.880
channel check that out if you want to see some great instructional videos about shaving under the username
00:38:49.120
mantic 59 well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips and
00:38:58.080
advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website at art of manliness.com speaking of wet
00:39:02.320
shaving if you guys didn't know this we actually have an art of manliness safety razor shaving set
00:39:06.640
on our art of manliness store putting a little plug store.artofmanliness.com it's a mercure razor and
00:39:12.640
it's got art of manliness engraved on the handle and it's got john l sullivan on the head of the
00:39:17.280
razor got also got a badger brush and uh some shaving soap as well so if you're interested
00:39:22.400
check it out uh your purchases there will support the art of manliness podcast as well as the content
00:39:26.560
we produce on artofmanliness.com really appreciate it until next time this is brett mckay telling you to stay