#158： The Prime of Life — What It Means to Be an Adult
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode, my guest today takes us on a whirlwind tour of the history of modern adulthood going all the way back to the 1500s, so we can see how adulthood or the concept of adulthood as it has changed throughout time and perhaps give us some insights on how young people can navigate adulthood in the 21st century.
Transcript
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right mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so i'd say in the
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past 40 30 years there's been a there's been a transformation going on in the west and particularly
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in the united states about what it means to be a grown-up i'm talking grown man grown woman
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because there used to be these scripts that you'd follow right and you you'd met these certain
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markers and that would mean you were an adult but nowadays those scripts have been thrown out the
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window and it's sort of confusing for you young people to figure out well am i am i grown up now
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or am i in this in-between phase am i adolescent i don't it's really confusing anyways my guest today
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takes us on this whirlwind tour of the history of modern adulthood going all the way back
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to the you know the 1500s so we can see how adulthood or the concept of adulthood as it
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has changed throughout time and perhaps give us some insights on how young people can navigate
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adulthood in the 21st century his name is steven mince he's a professor of history at university
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of texas and he wrote a book called the prime of life a history of modern adulthood and today on the
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podcast we're going to discuss what it means to be an adult whether work is involved owning a home
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kids marriage uh the gamut we're going to talk about it really interesting discussion
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so without further ado steven mince and the prime of life
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steven mince welcome to the show thank you for inviting me so your book is the prime of life
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a history of adulthood and you mentioned in the book and you're right about this that there hasn't
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really been a history of modern adulthood in the west written there's been a lot of books about
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childhood or adolescence but but not adulthood why why do you think that is even though this is like
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a big part of our life uh adulthood and we don't really pay much attention to it
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no one says life begins at 40 anymore at least not without irony whether you're young or you're
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middle-aged or older there's tremendous amount of ambivalence about adulthood because adulthood is
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associated with slowing down with being in a rut with stagnation and above all with stress
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and so no one wants to talk about that no one wants to be yet at least as it was quote-unquote
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traditionally defined and by traditionally defined i mean in the earlier 20th century yeah let's talk
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about that because i feel like there's a lot of hand-wringing uh going on today in the media books are
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written about it about boomerang kids how young people aren't transitioning to adulthood
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um but it seems like this idea that we have of adulthood came from the post-world war ii era
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which was you graduate high school you go to college and then you buy a house get married have kids
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and you're an adult uh that's no longer the case uh it's become much adulthood becoming adults become
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much more protracted but what i think is interesting in your book you show that this
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sort of post-world war ii idea of adulthood is almost it's an exception to the rule of how people
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became adults in modern times in the west can you explain what sort of the varying uh ideas of
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adulthood have been throughout history before world war ii well it's of course utterly shocking to think
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that the typical american woman in 1970 we're not talking about the distant past but
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1970 was married by the age of 21 and her husband was typically married by the age of 23
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had two or three kids they had a house they had a job that they were intending to stay in for the rest of
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their lives and that image of adulthood has become uh the kind of norm that many today feel we're
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deviating from but of course it's anything but a timeless norm the fact is that throughout
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american history and really indeed throughout western history growing up has been a protracted and
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difficult process there is nothing unique about how difficult it is to grow up today
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but furthermore uh in that earlier world adulthood was not frowned upon adulthood was something aspired to
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hard as it is to believe people wanted to look older not younger in the past and
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they associated adulthood not with settling down but rather with maturity responsibility
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worldliness knowingness in other words uh what i'll call the cary grant version
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uh or the katherine hepfern version of adulthood something to aspire to not something to recoil from
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and what happened uh what what sort of cultural sociological i mean i'm sure economic changes i mean
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it's very complex but why did our view of adulthood as something to aspire to transition to something like
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man i'm going to go get plastic surgery so i get rid of the crow's feet and i'm going to get a tummy
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tuck and i'm going to buy us the ferrari i mean what what happened well partly for very good reasons that
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is the image of adulthood increasingly became a kind of straight jacket and what i mean by that is
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individuals were finding it more and more difficult to live lives that they themselves found to be
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fulfilling this was of course particularly true for women women who married at the age of 19 or 20
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uh had three children by the time they were 25 this was the generation that divorced at extremely high rates
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they found that life constraining but there's something else going on and that's really the triumph of
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youth culture it's hard to remember but up until the late 1950s or early 1960s adult culture dominated
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uh american tastes nat king cole or pat boone were still at the top of the charts at the end of the 1950s
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but what happened of course because we all uh experienced this is that youth culture became much more
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attractive and utterly displaced the more traditional adult culture which anyway adults were retreating from
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uh in the face of television suburban living and the like
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that's why today uh you'll have parents and children who have the same musical taste like they'll both love
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rock bands for example which which is extraordinarily shocking to me uh you know i i was born in 1953
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and my father who participated in world war ii that experience seemed immensely remote from me
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well that was like the where my my children are way further from the vietnam war and yet i expect them
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to be aware of it yeah and it's sort of that that theme that that breakdown between generations was like
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the theme of a lot of movies in the 1950s right uh like rebel without a cause where you have the angsty gene
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james dean you know it's not like oh it's breaking me up you don't understand me that was that's what it was
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like but it's not so much like that anymore well i think you're exactly right but the psychological
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consequences i think are interesting that is it's become more difficult for young people to cut the
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umbilical cord and truly establish an independent identity and if your culture is quote-unquote derivative
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of your parents culture if your parents are in constant touch with you which in many ways is a good
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thing but it's complicated of course psychologically how do you develop an independent identity where you
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do it often in transgressive ways that aren't positive and uh you know some of the transgressions are
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pretty minor tattooing body piercing and the like and some of the transgressions are a little more
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significant uh of which the challenges of growing up of of assuming financial responsibility for oneself
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for example have become more difficult so i thought it was interesting uh in your first chapter you discuss
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um the sort of life stages that we've we've tried to break down life into different stages and you you
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talk about some uh famous people who uh didn't have the the traditional we call the traditional
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uh transition in adulthood where they left mom and dad started life on their own and that was it
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uh they there were a lot of famous boomerang kids even in the 19th century um i guess one of them was
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uh henry david thoreau was one he left his house parents house then came back was it was it was that
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the reason why we transitioned to this idea of you know you you graduate high school you graduate college
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you're off on your own was it because of economics really that you could get a job that could support
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you and a person and before the world war ii and now it's much more harder to land a job quickly
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that can sustain you and another family let me offer a somewhat different perspective
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we in many ways have juvenileized the young and what i mean about that i mean that seems uh
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contradictory right they have sex younger they're more likely to take drugs or to drink
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uh how could it be that we've juvenileized them we expect children to stay home
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to the age of 18 this was scarcely true in the past kids left home came back left home came back
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let me give a couple of examples mark twain's father died when he was 12 he then went to work
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he worked in st louis he worked in washington dc he worked in new york city he worked in keokuk iowa
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all by the age of 18 i mean it would be hard to imagine a parent allowing anything like that or take herman melville
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by the age of 21 his father went insane when he was 12 he left home he worked as a cabin boy on a whaling ship
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he jumped ship he was captured by cannibals he somehow escaped uh he made it his way home
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at the age of 21 i mean these are extraordinary experiences uh when melville writes
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in moby dick that a whaling ship was my harvard and my yale college he's not kidding
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that is at ages when we expect kids to be in a protected secure environment in close touch with their parents
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kids showed remarkable independence now that independence was punctuated by return home
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uh which had its own psychological consequences but
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they assumed that young people had a certain kind of fortitude and independence that we do not assume today
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you talk about this in your book as well about how college has changed in the past 30 20 years
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where uh it's become much more um encompassing like we we basically you transition from one parent
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set of parents to parents that are basically that are college bureaucrats uh essentially
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we we think of college as a transitional space it's a coming of age experience for many young people
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uh nowhere is this more evident than in drinking you know we at least legally bar drinking prior
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to the age of 21 and so college becomes the place where many kids learn to drink and over drink
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uh it's it's an interesting environment uh the notion uh you know i grew up in the generation
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that overthrew what used to be called parietals a word that doesn't exist anymore these were rules like
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three feet on the floor if a woman was in your dorm room or that the dorm room door had to be
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open the size of a wastebasket at all times i mean it's it's almost impossible for uh students today to
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imagine that there was a world like that where women had to check into their dorm at night
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and that there were curfews for women students that were not for men i mean it's an extraordinary
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uh story about how that got uh overthrown and what an irony that parents who themselves threw off
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all kinds of constraints are placing new constraints on their own kids yeah why do you think that is it
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is just that we've were maybe they the parents saw what the freedom was like and they said well
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that's not that great i remember the dumb things that i did when i was a kid and i don't want my kid
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to do that i i think that's part of it but the big thing is that parenting in general has become
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much more anxiety ridden and the anxieties begin even before a child is born we have the capability
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in pregnancy of testing for over 700 conditions we can treat a handful of those conditions and the
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effect of this is to scare prospective parents to death then after the child is born we have fears that
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date from the 1970s of all kinds of horrible things that can happen to your kid stranger
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abduction abuse in daycare centers or even in churches all of this creates an atmosphere of anxiety and
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that has then been reinforced by an increasingly entrepreneurial competitive economy an economy where
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many parents feel that if they don't give their own child a leg up their kid will fail in the race to
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success so there is a view i think among many parents today that their child is a project to be perfected
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and other people's children are problems that need to be dealt with
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and i'm i'm wondering maybe there hasn't been any research done on this um but i mean what effect are we
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actually i mean i guess it is that what the result of that what you said earlier is that we're juvenile
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izing uh adults or young adults in a way because of this young and this of course makes it much more
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more difficult to develop the kind of independence that this society demands but also that's necessary
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for the kind of maturation that people need to go through uh you know it is not easy to throw away
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all the supports of life not easy to throw away the road map and rule book and to chart one's own destiny
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but that's what somebody needs to do and if parents are always there to uh cushion the blows
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how can you develop that kind of radical independence that this society really does require
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and so it often comes in sort of traumatic ways uh where kids who have not been accustomed to
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failure or stress experience it in devastating ways so yeah you're seeing you're i mean you're seeing
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some of the consequences today of uh increased suicide uh depression anxiety amongst uh young people
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um that's sure a lot of that has been contributed by their parents being overprotective of them and
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micromanaging their life so they can get a leg up you know one of the great ironies in medical history
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is the reason that polio became a terrible problem in the 1950s was that parents were cleaning their
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houses more than ever in the past uh polio had always been prevalent but when you get it when
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you're extremely young in infancy or very early childhood it doesn't leave any lasting effects in
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general but when it's delayed it has horrible consequences i would just suggest that this is a kind of
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analogy that uh increasing independence at an early age has good consequences at later ages let me give
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one more example in many quote-unquote underdeveloped societies kids do chores at extraordinarily young
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ages two or three the children are often terrible at those chores but parents have them do those chores
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because they know kids at that age want to help out and if they do it at that age they will help out later
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we wait and then we have to force kids to do chores which they do only in the most uh resistant
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manner possible so we wind up in we're trying to help them we're trying to protect them we're trying to
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free them but sometimes things work out exactly the opposite of what we hope you said something
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earlier that i just want to elaborate on briefly by almost every measure kids are better off today their
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crime rates are down smoking's down test scores are up graduation rates are up they're better off in
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almost every way except the ways that matter we have depression beginning at much earlier ages we have
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kids showing signs of stress debilitating stress at very early ages we have growing numbers of kids who seem
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to have difficulties in interpersonal relationships so you could be better off in the ways we can easily count and still be
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worse off in the ways that really matter i'm curious if if you came across this in your research but do you think
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there is uh going to be a generational backlash and what i mean by that is these you know kids my age
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i guess i'm not a kid i'm a i'm 32 years old be 33 uh i have my own kids um but you know millennials who
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are raised by baby boomer parents who are helicopter parents and really micromanage their life do you think
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these millennials who are starting to have kids are going to do the like swing the opposite direction and be a little
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more um liberal i don't know free uh you know not as not as uh micromanaging with their kids life
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well john edwards the uh failed presidential candidate uh disgraced presidential candidate
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spoke of two americas and increasingly we're seeing two americas with very different life trajectories
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and it's very much rooted in education and class it is not an accident that eighty percent of the kids
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in the ivy league have two parents who've never been divorced which is wholly unlike the rest of society
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uh we have a more affluent better educated uh population that leads a much more stable lifestyle
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uh and that has lots of resources to shower on its children and has sufficient money to deal with the
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work family tensions that beset everybody and then we have another very large segment of the population
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that lives amid a kind of swirl of relationships that has a lot of instability in their lives
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that live paycheck to paycheck but sometimes that paycheck's not there
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not there and we're increasingly seeing these two routes through adulthood and it's scary because as a
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society we know how much this society has depended on a stable family network to help us when we're old
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and if you don't have that who's going to take care of you
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yeah yeah that's that's that's a great that's a great point um so basically there we we have
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two today we have two trajectories of adulthood and it all depends on social class right or economic class
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well let me give you an example that i know well which is involves higher education
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in higher education all the benefits flow to having a bachelor's degree and increasingly having
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a master's degree or some other professional degree but the benefits only come if you have a degree
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but of all the kids who enter college only a little less than 60 percent will ever get a college degree
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and it's much much worse at community colleges where the overwhelming majority of students who
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enter a community college will never get an associate's degree all these kids are getting
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is debt now there's been a lot of talk about debt but debt can be a good investment all of us go into
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debt to buy a house often to buy a car because we view it as a investment in our future
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college debt is a real problem not for people who graduate from name brand institutions
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they'll be able to pay off their debts uh the obamas didn't do so poorly uh but it's the people who
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never got a degree so they never got the benefits so even if their college debt is relatively low they are
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going to be hard-pressed to repay it and that's going to have consequences not only for them but uh also
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for our country as a whole absolutely i mean i uh am a historian and i'm a college professor but i'm
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also an academic administrator and the job i've been given the task i've been assigned in what's really the
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second largest uh public university system in the country is affordability access and student success
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we need to get more students for it'll be good for them and it will be good for society
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let's um shift um topics here a bit um and let's talk about friendship because it's something that
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we don't think too much about when we think about adulthood because if you do the survey said that
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most adults don't have very many friends i think one uh is what it is but at a previous time adulthood
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was a time of when you had your most stable relationships and you meant people even men
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included had lots of friends maybe three or four how we watch friends on tv and in real life we have
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lots and lots of casual acquaintances and we have lots and lots of work colleagues
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now increasingly we've seen a gender divide in friendship that is women are much more likely than men
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to engage in intimate conversation with a small number of close intimates
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and men whose lives are tend to be much more work centric uh tend to have a lot of work connections
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that don't provide the kind of friendship that we used to associate with friendship my father
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recently died at the age of 95 when he was 94 he had four high school buddies
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that he had grown up with in detroit and were still alive and still in communication at the age of 94 today
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they're all dead unfortunately but these people had shared a whole lifetime of experiences they lived in
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proximity they were able to communicate whenever they wanted to
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and that is much harder to do these days our friendship networks are spread nationally or internationally
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people are busy it's hard to figure out how to communicate email is okay but it doesn't convey tone very well
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and anyway people don't tend to write those lengthy letters that victorians loved to write
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so people find it difficult to sustain the kinds of
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friendships with deep disclosure and sharing of feeling and uh providing day-to-day help and guidance that
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friendship used to mean uh now friendship can take many forms and there is a form of male friendship that
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involves bantering and joking that's a fantastic form of friendship but if it's but friendship ultimately i
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i think and i think and i say this with great hesitance but i think requires face-to-face
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time and that it really can't be totally replaced by facebook and other forms of social media those are
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wonderful for keeping fossil friendships alive but at some point you better activate those friendships or
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they're not real yeah yeah i thought it was interesting too that another reason why friendship has gotten
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harder in the modern world is um we've become more family focused so men in particular are encouraged uh
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to spend more time with their families and say their grandfathers or great friend grandfathers who
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might have gone off you know a couple nights a week to go play poker with the boys or go to a lodge night
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uh now men are encouraged to stay home and spend time with their family
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it's interesting uh that this remains the case women are much more likely to be for example in book clubs
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or other kinds of activities like yoga than men even though the male breadwinner
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conception of gender roles is broken down uh many men continue to hold to that vision
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it's it's evident in a variety of ways and there's reasons why people do it uh men earn
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much higher incomes than women partly because they work longer hours in uh more in very stressful fields
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and uh they still view their job as the key to the family's financial success but that comes at a cost
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cost is no friends and and uh ironically if you put too many burdens on a lonely life raft that life
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raft will sink for most men they say that their closest intimate is their spouse their partner
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and if you place all the weight on that relationship it's more than that relationship can bear
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so i think uh so reviving friendship reclaiming friendship is not just a good thing in the
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abstract it'll actually produce better intimate relationships in the long run yeah it seems like
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it's great for everything it's great for you your emotional needs uh it's great for your relationship
00:32:21.720
uh and i feel like you know there was a time when friendships yeah you said provided a
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support a social support whenever you were sick or you needed help you didn't you didn't have to go
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to a therapist you didn't have to go uh rely on paid services to you know for someone to mow your lawn
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like your friends would come over and do that for you but we we don't have that anymore so we have
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to go out and to the marketplace to get these services that we once would get from family and friends
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uh precisely more people of course will die from loneliness than will die of cancer uh we may call
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it something else but there is no question that the social isolation that our society has uh contributes
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to a lot of problems with our psychological and even our physical well-being you know one thing that's
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weird about our society is we don't recognize friendship that is no obituary mentions who your friends are
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but we also legally castigate friendship in the 18th century nobody saw nepotism as a bad thing
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networks were how people got jobs in general we've eliminated nepotism for
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good reasons but one message that we're sending is that friendship should never be instrumental
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they shouldn't actually do things for you they should provide psychological support and comfort
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they should provide laughter in your life and sociability but they shouldn't actually do
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anything for you but friendships historically did lots of things for people and in the real world
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that we exist in uh we all know that having a great linkedin network is a great way to get your kid a job
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or to find a new job if you're looking so it's on one level we deny that this exists and on a different
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level we do everything in our power to take advantage and leverage that network um so another part of
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adulthood that is uh that looms large we spend most of our adult life doing this is our work
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and i thought this your chapter on the history of work in regards to adulthood has is fascinating how has
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it changed in the past 100 years i mean how do how do we view our work now that's different than how say
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our grandfathers or maybe great grandfathers may have viewed their work
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if you ask someone who they are they are their job people do not answer in terms of their religion
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they do not answer in terms of their ethnicity in general they do not answer in terms of their family
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they answer in terms of what they do our jobs are incredibly important to us they are the source of our very identity
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and this becomes evident when you see uh americans today take fewer vacation days than ever uh at least
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in the uh modern period that is the last hundred years uh americans only take 16 days of vacation a year
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this is extraordinary uh it's as if we live to work which europeans have long accused us of doing
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what's interesting to me is that american history has a long tradition of alienation towards work
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long before karl marx americans were talking about wage slavery
00:36:37.160
they were talking about the dehumanization of work if you read herman melville
00:36:46.360
you'll see tales that talk about the mindlessness of work and this is a long time ago but what's striking to me
00:36:58.600
is that the language of alienation from work seems to have disappeared from american society
00:37:06.280
uh the kind of notion that work shouldn't be all your life is about has dissipated uh this is scary
00:37:18.440
uh it's not a product of some corporate plot to brainwash people to work harder clearly this was
00:37:28.120
self chosen by americans to embrace work and it's not just of course men who've embraced work but women
00:37:38.120
as well and many many americans find retirement the most difficult transition of all because everything
00:37:49.960
that was meaningful in their life was tied up with work including their sociability
00:37:58.040
so it's scary that we've lost the uh the old view take this job and shove it uh
00:38:08.840
the kind of view you know popularized not so long ago in movies like nine to five
00:38:15.000
life and we act as if you can find the meaning of life exclusively in your work
00:38:25.080
yeah that's interesting because um i see that a lot particularly in the online world where you can
00:38:30.200
find coaches life coaches um programs you can take where the whole goal is to help you find your life's
00:38:38.840
calling which is basically it's your life's work and how you can make money
00:38:48.760
um but the problem with freud once said that the meaning of life lies in two things love and work
00:38:59.080
but he's wrong of course because the well-rounded life actually has way more than that in it
00:39:05.800
uh it's hard i think these days to see that to see that there are other worlds that are worth
00:39:16.040
spending time and energy on we've become narrow we've become focused we're incredibly productive
00:39:26.840
and then one has to ask for what yeah i ask myself that a lot um so you mentioned earlier
00:39:37.160
about the angst of parenthood um but adulthood itself is filled with lots of of angst and i think
00:39:43.960
we're all familiar with the the midlife crisis but now you're you're even hearing uh reports of that
00:39:49.880
there's a quarter-life crisis of people in their 20s who are experiencing this anxiety about there's
00:39:55.720
yeah it's an existential crisis um what what causes that angst in adulthood and why is it starting
00:40:08.040
when there was a clearly defined road map through adulthood when there were clearly defined gender
00:40:16.760
norms and clearly defined expectations what me worry as alfred e newman who would say but when there aren't
00:40:29.560
when there's no well-defined uh navigational tool no gps that tells us that we're on track
00:40:38.200
when we live in a world where we're constantly bombarded with consumer delights how can you ever feel happy
00:40:48.440
where you are the grass always will appear greener someplace else and you will feel that
00:40:58.440
that things could be better than they are and maybe they could be uh the fact is that many people are now
00:41:09.160
able to reinvent themselves multiple times and move onward and become truly the author of their own life
00:41:17.400
course and who am i to say that there's anything wrong with that each of us has to determine that for
00:41:24.760
ourselves but the price we pay for that freedom is anxiety
00:41:34.840
this is what kicker guard like the existentialist would would say absolutely yeah and i think i think
00:41:42.760
you also mentioned in your book as well is that modernity has given us with the technology and science
00:41:47.400
that we have has given us sometimes a false sense of control over life and when things don't turn out
00:41:54.440
the way we do the way we think they should turn out uh it's upsetting because like you think i should
00:42:00.280
have control over this but you don't yeah there are two cultures i would argue there's a culture of
00:42:09.240
chance and a culture of control if you are poor you're much more likely to embrace the culture of chance
00:42:19.880
uh you will be much more likely to play the lottery or to gamble because maybe luck will come your way
00:42:32.680
but for many well-educated adults they inhabit the culture of control after all they made their own way in
00:42:43.160
life and they're going to do everything in their power to make sure that their kids
00:42:48.600
are successful and don't suffer downward mobility
00:42:54.200
but a culture of control is in many ways an illusion illness or accident can strike any time
00:43:04.120
it can strike randomly and unexpectedly one of the shocks that i've had growing up
00:43:12.200
is discovering the number of people who've died who i was close to uh we sort of think for good reason
00:43:21.720
that people live a long time right now uh that most people will live into their 70s or 80s and yet
00:43:32.440
about one in six men and one in nine women will die between the age of 20 and 65 which is way higher
00:43:45.400
i think than most of us assume and they did not die because they were bad people they did not die because
00:43:54.680
they had bad lifestyles they died by chance and misfortune for the most part and that's a scary world
00:44:07.640
to live in it should remind us a bit of the world of our ancestors where they had much less control than we do today
00:44:16.920
but it also means that we need all kinds of support systems
00:44:29.400
steven this has been a fascinating discussion before we end up one last question um because i get this
00:44:33.960
question a lot from our podcast listeners and the guys who read the website and the question is like
00:44:40.600
how do i know i'm a man right there's you have guys in their 30s who will say like i still feel like i'm
00:44:45.960
18 years old um with this breakdown of traditional markers of adulthood how do we know when we've become
00:44:53.960
an adult what is there some is it a psychological thing i mean or there what is it that we can know
00:44:59.000
that we're an adult first i think when we're financially independent you have to be able to support yourself and
00:45:08.840
if you can't do that then i think you're not really an adult you're a dependent and then the second thing
00:45:18.600
is the assumption of responsibilities for other people uh almost all adults bear a lot of responsibility
00:45:30.440
for children for a partner a significant other often for siblings increasingly for older parents
00:45:42.520
and this can be a tremendous burden it's a burden that uh few of us were really prepared for and so it
00:45:52.760
comes a bit as a shock but it's one of those things that defines adulthood and then
00:45:59.640
i'll add something else to the mix true adulthood ultimately comes with failure all of us
00:46:12.120
have when we're young infinite expectations for our future success the world truly does seem to be our
00:46:21.320
oyster and after all at our college graduation we're told that we're the most promising generation
00:46:28.680
on earth and that anything is possible and as you grow older you discover it's not true options narrow
00:46:41.960
and the chances to do anything at all in your life disappear and it's how we cope with that
00:46:53.080
that determines what kind of adult we are are we someone who eschews these responsibilities
00:47:04.040
is are we someone who does not want to take up the burden of maturity or are we someone who will embrace
00:47:13.720
that and yet at the same time will maintain a kind of playfulness and humor and youthfulness no matter
00:47:24.040
what their age so there's two paths we can go down we can become morose and depressed and whine and complain
00:47:34.520
or we can thrive on the freedom that we have and take advantage of the dependencies the
00:47:46.040
interdependencies that we've woven and make them meaningful if you want to have a happy adulthood
00:47:53.480
there's no choice which path you need to take very good well steven mince this has been a fascinating
00:47:58.920
discussion thank you so much for your time it's been a pleasure you're welcome it's been a joy to
00:48:04.280
talk to you my guest today was steven mince he's the author of the book the prime of life and you can
00:48:08.840
find that on amazon.com well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast
00:48:16.840
for more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website at
00:48:20.120
artofmanliness.com and it's the holiday season if you haven't already check out our art of manliness
00:48:24.920
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00:48:36.520
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00:48:41.160
your support and until next time this is brett mckay telling you to stay manly