The Art of Manliness - #159： Stronger, Faster, Harder to Kill

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so last year i

00:00:19.120 got this email out of the blue from a guy named todd moore he said hey brett fans of the website

00:00:23.860 we'd love for you to come down to austin we're doing this weekend of just man skills we're going

00:00:28.700 to shoot guns butcher animals do obstacle course races repel do jujitsu and i was like yeah i'm

00:00:36.000 there no questions asked i was down there anyways this event was called vanguard wrote about on the

00:00:40.500 site if you haven't already check it out it's put on by a group of a gym called atomic athlete

00:00:45.000 atomic athlete is interesting uh it's a gym that does something like crossfit but it's not

00:00:50.340 crossfit their goal is overall strength and conditioning in fact a lot of individuals who

00:00:56.640 are going into special forces in the military use atomic athlete and their programming to get

00:01:00.680 ready for the the vigorous training uh that goes on there anyways today i have the the owners of the

00:01:06.760 gym on the podcast jake signs and todd moore we're going to discuss fitness strength conditioning the

00:01:13.060 psychology of of being strong and fit and the mental toughness aspect of it and we're also going to

00:01:18.760 discuss vanguard and what goes on there and their goals with it a really interesting podcast with a

00:01:23.300 great takeaways so without further ado jake signs todd moore atomic athlete

00:01:27.240 jake signs and todd moore welcome to the show glad you have us man so you guys are the co-owners of

00:01:41.940 a gym down in weird austin texas uh called atomic athlete before we get into like what the atomic

00:01:50.780 athlete is and the philosophy you guys have let's talk about your backgrounds because it's pretty

00:01:54.780 interesting you both have very uh just interesting backgrounds how did you get to the point where you

00:02:00.360 opened up a gym what was your story so jake let's start with you and then todd we'll talk about your

00:02:05.000 story yeah i always tell my friends about this because it's kind of funny because uh i guess over

00:02:10.160 the past 15 years i've become fairly fit but when i was uh when i was going to high school i moved from

00:02:16.320 northern california which is a totally different environment than rural texas and i had a pretty

00:02:21.180 good um initiation into the high school football scene it was very much like varsity blues you know

00:02:26.980 i came from like mountain biking and playing soccer in the mountains and hanging out and then uh got

00:02:31.840 dumped right into you know small town texas football scene weight rooms you know coaches yelling at you

00:02:38.120 uh i was in a class called athletic conditioning and that was a class that all the i guess what texas

00:02:44.380 considers lesser sports the non-football baseball basketball athletes got lumped into but they

00:02:49.460 basically put them into like a very structured strength and conditioning program and uh so my

00:02:54.300 initiation into the strength world was uh uh getting crushed by a sophomore cheerleader and um and ever

00:03:00.860 since that day i've always been interested in training strength and you know becoming faster stronger

00:03:04.880 uh ended up doing power lifting out throughout high school i got stronger and stronger um was never

00:03:11.260 really that good at it you know i was a smaller guy thinner guy and then uh i really had an

00:03:16.380 infatuation with the military so once i got out of high school uh enlisted in the army went over to the

00:03:21.360 ranger regiment for four years uh was a team leader there uh met a lot of good dudes even then though i

00:03:28.540 could see a lot of issues with what they were doing for um training it was more of like uh let's let's

00:03:33.340 break these guys versus let's build them up kind of attitude uh spent four years there ended up getting

00:03:39.060 out right before iraq uh after afghanistan and then went to college and in about 2008 or 9 i was kind

00:03:46.120 of at that crossing point of like what do i want to do career wise and uh as i started looking at

00:03:51.780 different professions and whatnot you know most of them required experience in a specific field and

00:03:56.800 one thing that i experienced and passionate was training whether it's strength conditioning endurance

00:04:01.400 all that stuff and so i started atomic athlete in about 2009 okay then todd your story so i was

00:04:09.100 always the absolute worst athlete in the gym still am i mean in our gym of 200 athletes i'm hands down

00:04:15.340 the worst and uh playing football in texas you just had to work a lot harder so my dad always helped me

00:04:20.580 out lifted weights and really got into that it was just you know i was always a bad athlete that worked

00:04:24.260 really hard and liked to lift weights and then after uh after high school i got really into running

00:04:29.740 got into marathon running that turned into triathlon which uh oddly enough is not that fun of uh of an

00:04:36.960 enterprise but it did a lot of a lot of good for my cardiovascular and got me pretty fit and then

00:04:41.920 somehow got into boxing which got me into muay thai and then i went out to thailand a couple of times

00:04:47.220 and trained out there and uh when i jake and i were living together at the time when i'd come back we

00:04:52.520 would do these crazy workouts outside it's just just really ridiculous workouts which weren't crossfit and

00:04:58.200 they weren't anything else but there was just this combination of lifting and running and breathing

00:05:03.000 and uh we would start doing other things and everybody's like oh you've done this before and

00:05:08.300 it's like no no no we're just pretty fit guys so we were starting to see the beginning combination of

00:05:14.160 of of fitness early on we just didn't quite have a track to follow it with but yeah it was uh just

00:05:20.120 just putting in hard work so it sounds like your guys's um life history right with training

00:05:26.120 led up to the the creation of atomic athlete it seems like you've taken the best of what you

00:05:32.140 experienced whether it was in football muay thai the military and brought it together in this um

00:05:37.120 program for listeners who aren't familiar with with atomic athlete i mean what is the overarching

00:05:42.440 philosophy um because you do have one i think a lot of i think this is great what i love about you

00:05:46.960 guys a lot of gyms or uh online programming or fitness guys like they don't really have a an

00:05:53.160 overarching philosophy it's just like okay we're gonna lift you're gonna look good but you guys

00:05:56.900 have something bigger going on what is that i think for us it's more the uh you know we always tell

00:06:02.860 athletes they come in they kind of like oh i want to look better i was like well you're in the wrong

00:06:06.160 place you know it's going to be it's going to be your diet your discipline outside the gym what we

00:06:10.960 really want to do is make you like our motto says stronger faster and harder to kill you know

00:06:16.120 although it's a great thing to put in the back of a t-shirt it really has a lot more meaning to it

00:06:20.400 and so our goal is to make you a better functioning athlete outside the gym so although the gym is an

00:06:26.760 amazing place you know we do test in the gym we don't put a lot of emphasis and a lot of weight on

00:06:31.660 what actually happens in the gym like for us the gym is just a an artificial very controlled training

00:06:37.680 environment and what we want to do is make you a more capable human being outside the gym so a good

00:06:42.760 example would be um myself i took todd and two other athletes uh on this mountain hunt last week

00:06:48.900 so we spent six days up in western colorado uh at altitude in snow um carrying packs you know

00:06:55.280 bivvying out and like sub freezing weather like that for me on a regular basis is the test environment

00:07:01.560 these guys all wanted to go they weren't even hunting they just wanted to go test themselves outside

00:07:05.780 so the big the big underlying philosophy is um training the gym to perform outside the gym and

00:07:12.600 that's our main purpose this does make you more capable and we do that both mentally and physically

00:07:17.620 so that's a huge emphasis on it too so when the athletes come in we put a lot of uh of thought

00:07:22.480 process into what they should be thinking about what they should be feeling what they should be doing

00:07:26.540 how they can take that outside the gym i mean a big a big thing we've always said in here is if

00:07:31.040 you're going to fail we want you to completely fail completely have a meltdown in the gym so it

00:07:36.100 doesn't happen outside the gym this is our controlled safe environment so if something bad

00:07:40.680 is going to happen we want it to happen here and then you can address that problem fix that problem

00:07:45.500 for anything that happens in the outside world awesome we'll get into more about the uh the

00:07:49.440 psychological and mental aspect of what you guys do but before we do that let's talk about

00:07:54.520 the the programming you do like the main one you guys do and i've done it before in the past is

00:07:58.960 what you call hybrid and when i when i try to explain it to people it's it's hard for me to

00:08:03.600 explain because it's like i tell them the way i describe is like it's sort of like crossfit but

00:08:08.420 not crossfit um i mean how would you guys describe the the the programming you do at atomic athlete

00:08:14.840 well we've been trying to come up with a one line answer i know it's hard for a really long time

00:08:20.720 because i mean like when you walk in the gym you see a big warehouse you know you see kettlebells

00:08:24.760 barbells dumbbells sandbags a big open space mats and so if you just kind of walked in off the street

00:08:30.400 you'd be like oh it's like a crossfit gym you guys do crossfit and it's like no we we definitely

00:08:34.380 don't and i mean some of our best friends own crossfit gyms and they're great coaches um but

00:08:39.620 you know our main philosophy is is different you know we don't view fitness as a sport we know we

00:08:44.700 view it as a tool to use um in whatever endeavor it may be whether it's rock climbing hunting jiu-jitsu

00:08:50.500 um fighting soccer whatever it may be um so you know the it is a hard question to answer and although

00:08:58.980 everyone in the gym knows is different if you ask most were athletes they really couldn't put words

00:09:02.760 to it as well but the big thing i think is uh we kind of talk about the purpose and the programming

00:09:07.880 um our main purpose is not to be good at exercising but to develop a high level of fitness

00:09:13.020 to perform outside of the gym and and we do that by programming and our term for programming is

00:09:19.280 creating a well-thought-out plan so we do not believe in confusing muscles we do not believe

00:09:24.780 in random daily sessions um everything you do has a purpose in our programming and it's all aimed at a

00:09:31.240 bigger picture you know we use traditional methods like periodization which is training in blocks with

00:09:36.860 deload weeks in between and progression which we like our sessions to build upon one another i believe

00:09:42.760 you're doing are you doing starting strength still right now yeah i'm doing starting straight

00:09:45.660 it was sort of a i'm working with uh matt reynolds uh okay and sort of it's like a split between

00:09:51.300 starting strength it's kind of weird gotcha yeah i mean but like you know basic concept of

00:09:55.020 progression you know and progressive overload is um you know each each week you go in there when

00:09:59.120 you're squatting you know you're squatting a slightly heavier load and uh you know we've done

00:10:03.680 the random thing before way back in the day and what happens is there's a lot of time wasted you

00:10:08.260 know instead of being at a very specific workload you know you're taking time trying to figure out

00:10:13.420 maybe your techniques off and you're like ah you know this exercise i haven't done it in six months

00:10:17.880 you know we just we just found over time that it works much better to follow a well thought out

00:10:23.560 program and a well thought out plan and if we follow that plan we have enough athletes in here that we

00:10:28.380 can sell exactly what works and what doesn't work so with with 200 athletes when we decide we want to

00:10:34.180 do something we can have a pre-test run the athletes through it and then have a post-test so whatever

00:10:39.080 we've developed we know exactly if it is on point or if it's not on point and we can make those changes

00:10:44.420 along the way and if we did things randomly we wouldn't have we wouldn't have that path to follow

00:10:49.220 so it really helps us out it gives us structure and it also it gives purpose to the programming where

00:10:55.160 you know every day you're doing something that's making you distinctly better you know how it's making

00:11:01.480 you better and you know it's going to be just enough of an increase in intensity or volume or what that

00:11:06.700 might be that you will see improvement but it's not gonna break you so what i love about you guys

00:11:11.780 you do a great job of combining uh both strength training and the cardiovascular conditioning

00:11:16.940 my question is like when i was doing the programming there's a lot of olympic lifting

00:11:21.200 and for average joes on the street they're like man why do i have to do this like complex snatch i mean

00:11:26.440 it's like the hardest thing in the world like what is what is the benefit uh that olympic lifting

00:11:32.780 provides to guys who aren't who aren't olympic lifters what what is the benefit of that

00:11:37.540 well you know we in the gym really really like to uh olympic weight lift a as a coach it's very

00:11:44.720 stimulating for us it's fun to coach um but as athletes we experienced at one point it's very

00:11:50.380 difficult to teach yourself how to olympic weight lift um i mean you can read all the books you want

00:11:55.160 you can watch a lot of videos but without having a trained eye it's very difficult so for our in-house

00:12:00.060 programming we do include a lot of olympic weight lifting for our sport specific programs

00:12:04.000 we don't put too much and if we do put them in there they're very very basic we like to use them

00:12:09.120 in the gym because it's a great tool to train proprioception you know which is basically knowing

00:12:14.320 what your body is doing and movement and as well as the mobility benefits we get from that deep

00:12:20.040 squatting and those overhead positions that we do so it really depends on the athlete and some of the

00:12:25.800 programs online that we have uh don't have much olympic weight lifting because it's just one of

00:12:31.100 those things where it's just too difficult to teach yourself and unless you have a trained eye watching

00:12:35.200 you it's but you may have experienced yourself following the programming at one point it's really

00:12:39.560 really difficult to know if you're doing it right and you can't really train at a heavy load until you

00:12:43.940 are doing it right we also like it because it adds just another tool in the chest so sometimes you can

00:12:50.140 get bored with squatting and pressing and stuff like that then you can kind of drop into an

00:12:54.300 olympic weight lifting cycle and you're not you're you're not only are you getting stronger but you're

00:12:58.620 also learning a skill so you're learning something that you can take with you other places the ability

00:13:03.000 to move that barbell confidently and safely and like jake said the uh the the cool thing about weight

00:13:08.860 lifting is it because it is a skill-based sport as your skill increases your strength increases but as

00:13:14.640 your skill isn't high you're just not moving that much weight so we don't see that many injuries

00:13:19.000 actually hardly any at all with weight lifting uh the athletes are a little scared at first but when

00:13:22.800 they get into it they really seem to enjoy it but again it's just you know everything is a tool so

00:13:27.880 it can be uh you know you could definitely do a barbell clean or a sandbag clean or just jump with

00:13:32.340 a sandbag you kind of see that same training benefit but if you're training for you know if you're

00:13:36.660 training for two or three months you know olympic weight lifting is not that important but if you're

00:13:41.100 when you started training five seven nine years all of a sudden you want to have a little bit more

00:13:45.220 variety things to do things that you can see improvement on you know to see where you've come and where

00:13:51.300 you're going i think you talked to uh you know when you were training with mark he was talking

00:13:56.360 about the hip drive and the squat and um and basically just that you know having that hip

00:14:01.200 drive and explosivity throughout that midsection i mean that is a very very powerful tool and you

00:14:05.660 know we see it you see it with the gymnast you see it with jujitsu practitioners and that's one of

00:14:10.180 the best exercises that we can do to actually train um explosive power and so like usually all total

00:14:15.200 body total body you know strength sessions are going to revolve around some variation of an olympic lift

00:14:20.160 whether that's a you know power snatch a muscle snatch full snatch clean clean and jerk so some

00:14:25.940 variation of those is a very effective training tool when done correctly gotcha well here's here's

00:14:30.880 a question i have um so i think i talked to you about this jake on the snatch and like the low bar

00:14:35.820 squat that thing is the hardest thing to do and i remember i i was like i was like in the workout one

00:14:41.420 day one of the programming and i watched the video you guys put up there of the the previous day or the

00:14:47.340 the athletes doing the workout at the gym yeah and i was like watching these like felt

00:14:52.360 girls like doing overhead squats with like you know 25 you know yellow plates on each side and i was like

00:14:58.520 i could do that and like they're just cranking around i get up there and like i couldn't do

00:15:05.240 a single one i mean why is that position the overhead squat so difficult to do because is it is it a

00:15:13.060 strength thing or is it more of a mobility issue i think it's more of a mobility it is going to be

00:15:18.180 i mean a lot of like um you know a lot of practitioners and coaches when they want to do

00:15:22.280 like a movement screen they'll use an overhead squat as like the baseline you know assessment

00:15:26.360 on what your mobility is and it's amazing some athletes will walk in have never trained with a

00:15:31.200 barbell ever a female and she can do a perfect overhead squat um you can bring a guy who's played high

00:15:37.380 school and college football and soon as that barbell goes overhead and he tries to squat i mean

00:15:41.880 everything just falls apart so that the snatch is a probably the most complex exercise that we do and

00:15:47.720 possibly we're you know in the world because if you think about these guys who do olympic weightlifting

00:15:52.220 they're training for 10 plus years with a coach on just two exercises like their event consists of two

00:15:58.900 exercises they're dedicating a lifetime of training to mastering those two exercises so the nature of

00:16:04.960 olympic weightlifting is very much like a martial art and even me and todd we bring in a couple uh

00:16:09.720 national level lifters they coach us you know we know we've been doing them for four or five years

00:16:14.880 and and every time they can just point out so many things you're doing wrong but the the overhead

00:16:20.260 squat if you're not a mobile athlete it's it can be a very very frustrating exercise especially for a

00:16:26.460 lot of males yeah usually the issues start with the bottom because it starts with ankles or knee

00:16:30.860 mobility or hip mobility but the weight is loaded at the top so it's definitely an upriver downriver lift

00:16:35.660 but it's uh it can definitely be frustrating for the new athlete but you know we tell our guys in

00:16:40.300 here and they hate to hear it but it's not free you know you just have to spend the time in and doing

00:16:44.140 it yeah all right so let's talk about some of the the cardiovascular conditions that's one of the

00:16:48.400 things i liked about what i what i think what drew me to the atomic athlete programming is that it

00:16:52.840 reminded me a lot of like football conditioning right so like you start off with the the barbell the

00:16:58.640 strength training then you you end it with uh cardiovascular condition you guys have some fun with it

00:17:03.100 i mean what are you guys's favorite tools for uh conditioning exercises well one of the things

00:17:08.920 that we you know we put on like a coaching certification or we tell our you know our coaches

00:17:12.500 that are in training is that uh an exercise is just a means to an end so you know if you're trying to

00:17:17.860 develop you know aerobic endurance or aerobic capacity or even anaerobic capacity what you actually

00:17:22.860 do um is not super important you know your body doesn't really recognize am i running am i rowing am i

00:17:29.220 doing weighted step-ups am i climbing up the hill you know your body's ultimately going to

00:17:32.780 recognize uh duration and intensity how long it's working and how hard it's working um that being

00:17:38.320 said uh we unlike most crossfit gyms we really like to run you know if we if we have our whims as

00:17:45.280 a coach we want our athletes running because it's about as functional as it gets it's a real world

00:17:49.200 activity that everyone needs to do um but as far as using like different modes uh a tire drag is a

00:17:56.180 great mode for athletes who are bigger or have injuries and can't run that's simply getting a

00:18:00.400 harness and a tire and a plate dragging that extremely challenging we use it a lot for getting

00:18:05.120 ready to go to the mountains um airdyne uh weighted step-ups um working on hills those are all kind of

00:18:12.240 single mode activities that are really easy to do pretty much anywhere um and then you start getting

00:18:16.860 more into the more conditioned traditional stuff sandbags kettlebells body weight you know obviously

00:18:22.420 exercises like burpees and sandbag get-ups uh kettlebell snatches those are all really good metabolic

00:18:28.040 exercises that provide conditioning so we look at the whole cardio thing and kind of two components

00:18:33.260 um one's going to be like your aerobic base you know that easy pace and just clocking in the miles

00:18:38.400 or the minutes and then we look at the more high intense stuff which is going to be more work capacity

00:18:43.240 or metcon another big thing with that bread is we try to uh stay away from our athletes being limited

00:18:49.080 by their skills for their cardio so like what i mean by that this is not a knock on crossfit crossfit

00:18:54.160 likes to do the high rep olympic lifts or those skill-based activities and an athlete doesn't have

00:18:58.540 that skill then they're not seeing the cardio effect so their skill is limiting them um by so

00:19:03.620 if we make the exercises we're i'm going to say dumber but anybody can lay down and get up with a sandbag

00:19:08.120 and i don't know if you've done it before but it is remarkably challenging it sucks it will kick your ass

00:19:13.340 i mean it is one of the worst things i've done uh but it's one of those things where it's really hard

00:19:18.820 to hurt yourself you can you you can work as hard as you're willing to work we've seen guys in here

00:19:24.380 just do some amazing things where it's like man i can't believe you wanted to work that hard

00:19:28.680 but it's right up there with running a five minute mile you know it's super intense but by making

00:19:35.200 those activities i'm i'm air quoting dumber here but just something that you don't have to think about

00:19:40.180 where you're just doing the activity and controlling that heart rate that allows us to invariably

00:19:45.040 control the intensity and the uh what the athlete's doing and saying like jake said then we can start

00:19:49.740 getting carry over in other aspects yeah keep it simple keep it hard is uh one of the things that

00:19:54.220 we like to apply you know yeah that's i love it one of you know the one of the the things you guys did

00:19:59.080 that i just i hated was i think it was curtis p is that what it's called oh man yeah those things

00:20:04.900 suck a hundred of those every christmas eve if you're not doing anything a hundred of them on

00:20:08.640 christmas eve can you explain like what what is involved in a curtis p so people get an idea what's going on

00:20:13.280 uh curtis p actually we got that from one of the guys we worked back in the day and he

00:20:17.380 i think he worked he was an oil rig worker or some kind of like just you know brute kind of country

00:20:23.460 boy and uh and so they developed this exercise and uh he called it a curtis p and so it's basically a

00:20:29.320 hang squat clean lunge lunge and a push press and it's not one of those exercises where a specific

00:20:34.740 muscle group fails it's kind of like a sandbag get up um it just this is everything it taxes the

00:20:39.720 muscles the heart the lungs um it really just hammers the whole body and it's just awful to do

00:20:45.720 especially in a high rep scheme so it's uh it's one of those things that we don't do it too often

00:20:51.700 um because it is so awful but like every christmas everyone comes in we'll have about 50 60 athletes

00:20:57.120 come in and do it and doing a hundred for time is that's a that's a proper gut check right there

00:21:03.080 are people wearing santa claus hats while they're doing this i imagine so mostly just crying

00:21:07.680 mostly just crying okay mostly just crying it also really doesn't matter the tool you use we've

00:21:12.320 tried to use them with kettlebells to make it a little bit easier that doesn't make it easier

00:21:15.940 try it with a sandbag that doesn't make it easier it's pretty much just uh you've realized everything

00:21:20.540 wrong which you've ever done in your life while you're in the middle of that lunch and that push

00:21:24.840 press lots of pity parties um let's talk about this so you talk about uh outside of the gym the things

00:21:30.660 that uh determine success diet is a big part and with a high intense program like hybrid

00:21:37.300 how should diet change for someone in order to uh account for that the calories they're expending

00:21:43.820 and the energy they're expending yeah well um i'd say first off the majority of athletes and people

00:21:50.360 out there um you know when you start looking at uh nutrient timing and how much you should eat on

00:21:56.880 certain days i think most people have a lot bigger fish to fry as far as just cleaning up the diet in

00:22:01.680 general just making sure they're getting adequate calories making sure they're not over consuming

00:22:06.060 or under consuming making sure they're getting the right macronutrients in there so as far as like

00:22:10.980 getting to a point where you know say you have high intensity days and you're doing a higher level

00:22:15.300 of carbohydrates and a higher level of um caloric intake that's getting a lot more complicated

00:22:20.460 than what most athletes need i think i think most athletes need to really go back to square one

00:22:26.120 find out you know like hey am i at my optimal body composition and if i am how many calories is that

00:22:32.400 on you know a daily or weekly basis and then making small adjustments from you know from there

00:22:37.540 a lot of people can get a little too down the rabbit hole with something like that uh

00:22:41.920 up front when i think initially the best thing to do is eat clean and train hard and train consistently

00:22:48.960 and once you have those three things down then you can start really getting into the nuts and bolts

00:22:53.300 and the weighing the food and how many grams of you know carbohydrates versus proteins on my training

00:22:57.760 days and non-training days but we usually tell athletes when they come in and you know they're

00:23:02.540 asking always questions they want a whole bunch of information it's like hey like do a b and c first

00:23:08.260 and we'll worry about those things later down the road because those things although they are important

00:23:13.040 when you get to a high level for like a newer intermediate athlete they really need to focus on

00:23:17.480 consistency um training hard and then just clean up their diet in general before they start counting

00:23:23.080 those little individual numbers but this also falls in with the uh with the having a a training plan

00:23:29.180 or progression because you can manipulate your food down the way and if you're doing similar

00:23:34.220 workouts over and over again you can directly see how that affects your training so if you have a day

00:23:38.680 where i remember you initially said you were intermittent fasting and you were really low carbohydrate

00:23:42.520 so and you said you were crashing during these workouts um if you're consistently doing those

00:23:47.200 workouts and you can start messing with those carbohydrates and you can eat more or eat less and see how you

00:23:52.180 perform so it's not a speculation on how you're doing you can you have a direct uh reference on

00:23:57.720 how you're performing with what you're consuming and how you're doing it gotcha all right so keep it

00:24:02.320 simple again yeah keep it simple i think you know like i said a new athlete will come in they start

00:24:07.240 asking always crazy questions and it's like hey man i can tell by looking at you and watching your move

00:24:12.100 it's like you really just need to train hard and consistently up front and then once you get those

00:24:17.420 things those problems knocked out okay now let's start dialing in nutrition uh and the heart

00:24:22.080 thing is from our perspective and you know we always tell people when they come in like i want to look

00:24:26.060 good it's like okay cool man like read this book that's nutrition based it's also got a lot to do

00:24:31.100 with your genetics and how your body reacts to food and training and the hard thing is for most athletes is

00:24:36.540 that uh it's totally on them nutrition you know that's you know you have five to six times a day

00:24:41.900 to make a mistake when it comes to strength and conditioning as long as you walk into the gym or you walk

00:24:47.380 into your garage gym and you train follow that program for that one hour three to four days a

00:24:52.480 week you will see results like no questions asked but the diet thing there's so many opportunities to

00:24:58.220 to fail you know little small decisions like oh i'll have one more one more bite or maybe i'll go for

00:25:03.160 ice cream tonight and what happens that takes the power of us as coaches um it takes it away and so we

00:25:08.980 can't control those factors and then it's very difficult to base success on something that you don't have

00:25:14.020 much control of you know so it really comes down to an individual athlete's discipline is uh is how

00:25:19.420 they're going to actually end up looking as well as their daily nutritional kind of priorities gotcha

00:25:25.220 so let's talk about some of the psychological uh aspects of training because you guys you know you

00:25:29.760 talk about that you build this into the the the programming like there will be instances where

00:25:34.380 you'll say you're going to do this just so you can become more resilient or become more uh mentally

00:25:40.220 tough um so i mean how do you how do you do that beyond i mean how do you develop that that grit in

00:25:47.120 an athlete where they're like i can keep pushing on even though my body says no i can't you can't go

00:25:53.440 on i mean how do you develop that into a person well brett it kind of comes back to back to the

00:25:58.320 programming it initially starts with just showing up every day so that's the first thing we tell our

00:26:03.540 athletes when you start when you come into this gym you need to show up three times a week for four

00:26:08.780 weeks i don't care how tired or sore beat up you are we can change the workouts anything can be

00:26:14.020 changed in here as jake said everything can be moved around it doesn't really matter but it's

00:26:18.440 consistently training yourself to show up every day i think uh you had eric gritens on the podcast and

00:26:23.480 he said the biggest thing with being successful in selection is just showing up and even when jake

00:26:27.480 and i did this hunt last week if i just got up at 4 30 in the morning and got my boots on then i knew i

00:26:33.340 was going to be okay and it's the same thing in the gym and we've had athletes talk about they just sit in

00:26:37.380 the car and they're nervous i'm like all they have to do is get out of the car and walk into

00:26:41.100 the gym and the first step is done it's the very first step after that it's just repeated exposure

00:26:46.960 to different stresses because like i said earlier we if you're going to have a breakdown we want it

00:26:51.040 to happen in a gym and provided you're being coached well and you know what's going on you're

00:26:54.880 not going to have a total meltdown you can kind of see where the wheels fall off and we know

00:26:58.720 jake and i do the workouts we see the athletes do the workouts everything's better so we know pretty

00:27:03.060 much exactly what's going to happen when it happens and through time we're just able to ramp up the

00:27:08.180 intensity or ramp up the expectations and we just tell our athletes at the beginning of every session

00:27:13.380 this is exactly what we expect to see this is exactly how we expect to see you perform and there's

00:27:18.160 just no gray area with that and you've noticed guys will come in here and it's kind of like that

00:27:23.200 fight club slogan you're just kind of a ball of dough and then after five or six months man they're

00:27:27.860 mentally just just rock solid you know able to get in there and it's like man i would follow that

00:27:33.140 guy anywhere so it's pretty it's pretty interesting to see but it is the it's the biggest single

00:27:38.960 carryover is the is the mental fortitude to just kind of consistently drive through these workouts and

00:27:44.460 and train gotcha um i was gonna so besides the gym down in austin where people if they're in the area

00:27:52.380 go check it out but you also offer the programming online so how does that work um and then besides

00:27:59.740 the hybrid programming that you offer what are some of the other programs people can find online

00:28:03.480 well you know basically what we did with the site was um we kind of about you know bottom line is

00:28:09.660 training a facility like ours it's not cheap you know i mean it's fairly expensive i mean the average

00:28:13.340 crossfit gym or a strength and conditioning facility is um it's going to be anywhere from 150 to 250

00:28:18.600 dollars a month you know and a lot of times it's not a good facility next to you so we kind of saw

00:28:23.260 that problem and thought like hey why don't we create an online coaching uh coaching portal that

00:28:27.900 can solve the majority of these issues unfortunately we can't have eyes on the athlete and give them

00:28:32.780 corrections but we can provide them with programming um exercise videos uh coaches notes you know talking

00:28:39.440 about what we saw and what our athletes did um problems that our athletes experience and how to

00:28:44.860 overcome them uh and then watch a video of the actual athletes doing it so you can kind of get

00:28:49.160 plugged into like this online community of other athletes training and and the key word there is

00:28:55.600 training right we're not working out like we're training you know like working out it's like waking

00:28:59.100 up like hey what am I going to do today I'm going to I'm going to go for a run you know or today I'm

00:29:03.060 going to you know do bye-byes and tries uh we use the term training because you know you're following a

00:29:07.500 specific plan and you're working towards a specific uh purpose and so the online platform you know has all

00:29:13.060 those tools and then there's programs of all types you know we got everything from what we do here in

00:29:18.340 the gym which is a more of a hybrid based program designed to get you stronger and faster and more

00:29:23.020 mentally resilient we have sports specific programs for guys uh going to military selections

00:29:28.360 we have running based programs we have arm hypertrophy programs we got core programs uh you

00:29:35.360 know body weight based programs like the one our athletes are working through right now is called short

00:29:39.060 on time so that's one that's great for the holidays you know it uses minimal equipment

00:29:43.040 and it's a 40 minute session and you know we've been doing them with our athletes and man they're

00:29:47.340 hard really hard they're really really hard not they're not easy you know because you know our

00:29:52.200 program programming is so diverse you know we'll do you know a 16 week you know strength cycle which

00:29:58.100 gets really really geeky with one rep maxes and percentages and you know we'll do isometric

00:30:03.280 eccentric concentric type of movements and then sometimes we just go back to that keep it simple keep it

00:30:08.680 hard you know mentality which is what we're doing right now and and they are just as challenging

00:30:13.420 and it doesn't matter if you're using body weight if you're using kettlebells or a barbell those are

00:30:18.220 just you know means to an end and uh and so you get a little bit of everything so if you're like

00:30:23.140 someone you know like hey i want to get faster or hey i'm trying out for a swat you know school

00:30:27.240 or a swat team and i'm 25 pounds overweight i need to get my lungs up get my legs rolling then there's

00:30:33.300 a program on there for you and we're always adding to it too so there's a huge diversity of um

00:30:38.100 programs available and it's basically you get everything our athletes get but you just don't

00:30:43.980 get our eyes on you actually watching you there's also the fact that these programs have all been

00:30:48.340 vetted so like our hybrid program 200 athletes go through that so jake and i coach these morning

00:30:53.280 sessions so if we see athletes start getting sore backs or sore shoulders then that that programming

00:30:59.260 is modified and changed before it's ever put on the website and sold so our selection programs we've

00:31:04.620 got five guys that have gotten through selection at this point this year yeah i think something like

00:31:08.920 that so you know it's it's stuff these these guys follow these programs they worked for them we have

00:31:14.440 before and after data that that follows that up so it provides us the ability or this gym and and

00:31:21.660 the program it provides the ability to actually put out a really solid product that we've run athletes

00:31:27.080 through we know what works that's on the website what doesn't work we went ahead and pulled off

00:31:32.000 and uh plug stuff that that would work in gotcha so what i what i what i one of the things i love

00:31:37.500 about atomic athlete and when you guys first reached out to me i was just really intrigued by

00:31:41.300 by the gym and what you guys are doing is that it's not just the the workout aspect right like that's

00:31:47.860 there's there's more to it at atomic athlete than that like you guys do other events with your gym

00:31:52.820 members sort of like ruck type events the vanguard which we'll get into more detail in here in a bit

00:31:57.520 i mean why is that what are you trying to accomplish with these other events that you do outside of the

00:32:03.680 gym because i mean most gyms would just be like okay we gave our our our customers a good workout

00:32:09.460 and that's it but you guys seem to be going for something bigger here what is that you know i think

00:32:14.560 what it is is like you know that initial conversation we had on purpose and like hey we want you to be

00:32:18.420 better outside the gym and uh so we kind of want that to be like a reality check for athletes and kind

00:32:23.440 of remind them like hey this this gym is a very controlled artificial environment um and and

00:32:29.860 outside is not it's not controlled it's not artificial you have rain you have inclement weather

00:32:34.700 um you have low light conditions and so we'd like to do is actually take the athletes outside the gym

00:32:40.080 and and actually kind of let them test their fitness out there in an environment which you know a

00:32:45.860 soldier or a military guy would experience a regular basis a mountain guide a big mountain hunter but

00:32:51.440 guys you know who are it dudes that work in uh here in austin and they don't get out and do stuff

00:32:56.000 like that that's a good kind of like eye-opening experience and a good revelation for them are like

00:33:01.600 hey this is why i'm trained just in case something like this happens i know i'm capable i know i'm

00:33:06.120 competent i know i have the fitness to actually you know mentally and physically to continue on and get

00:33:11.420 the job done and so uh it's a real interesting culture it also has kind of evolved around the gym where

00:33:16.440 you know usually if someone comes in and and they don't really want to work hard um they kind of

00:33:22.160 naturally get weeded out really fast so the culture that permeates our facility and just the gym itself

00:33:27.840 now is one of hard work and and not complaining and we see that uh get transferred to the outside pretty

00:33:33.960 awesome um so yeah it also seems like you guys are building a tribe in a weird way you guys are kind

00:33:39.820 of building like a community with your your within your gym it's it's definitely here i was telling the

00:33:45.640 guys the other day i was like you know you come in here and you work every single day and you might

00:33:50.100 want to cut a rep one day you might show up late you might do this you might do that and you might

00:33:54.760 not think everybody notices but everybody notices so down the road you know there's the group of people

00:34:00.280 that are working hard and then there's the other guy and they pull together and they push each other

00:34:05.440 and it's really an interesting thing to see where you look at you know the girls in this gym are just

00:34:10.760 badasses you know they are just amazing and what they're able to do and just drive the guys as well

00:34:16.280 and to to see them push and pull each other and uh and just do some really physically and mentally

00:34:21.800 amazing things in here is impressive awesome so yeah it's like that rudyard kipling quote like it's

00:34:26.660 like the strength of the wolf is the pack and the strength of the pack is the wolf yeah yeah because

00:34:31.060 i mean doing this stuff on your own i mean just no one there to hold you accountable i mean it's

00:34:35.080 very challenging so like we tell a lot of our online athletes like hey get a training partner

00:34:39.800 and hold yourselves accountable you know i mean that's that's one of those things that when you're

00:34:44.580 doing it side by side with someone and like you're feeling sorry for yourself and it's awful you're just

00:34:49.040 getting crushed by a session and you look to your left and there's seven other athletes right there with

00:34:53.580 you then that kind of builds that tribe mentality like there's something that's uh amazingly built

00:34:59.220 when everyone suffers together and i experienced in the military you know us four experienced it this

00:35:04.560 past a week up in the mountains hunting and whenever you have those experiences that are

00:35:08.940 just awful physically mentally there's a strong bond that's actually built there you'll definitely

00:35:14.280 learn more about somebody during a hard hard training session in an hour than you will sit in

00:35:19.260 a cubicle next to them for 10 years yeah for sure for sure it's gut check time yeah so uh talk about

00:35:26.480 vanguard because that was like your like the big event that you guys invited me to that and i remember

00:35:30.000 the email that todd sent me he was basically like hey brett we're doing this thing we're gonna shoot

00:35:36.080 guns we're gonna gut animals do you want to come and i was like yes of course i do didn't even have

00:35:43.080 to check it out i wanted to be there uh so can you tell us a little bit about event vanguard and why you

00:35:47.580 guys started and what what do you guys do there well to be honest with you we sat down with our

00:35:52.480 accountant one day and she was asking about an expense category that had a lot of stuff on it

00:35:57.160 and uh it was mostly firearms and training and you know equipment for these kind of recreational

00:36:03.220 activities that we all pursue and uh i was like yeah so i wanted to ask you about that and she

00:36:08.760 basically said well you need to do an event of some sort um that will uh justify these expenses and i

00:36:15.900 had a buddy he's an sf guy out in fort bragg and we always talked about like i'd be cool when we

00:36:20.220 retire to start like this man camp where you know we go out and show these skills that we've learned

00:36:24.140 over the years and um and then so that was my first idea i was like well hey we'll just put

00:36:28.900 together this you know weekend long man camp and you know luckily for me and todd we have access to

00:36:34.380 some really like really really well qualified individuals um military backgrounds fighting

00:36:39.840 backgrounds they own jiu-jitsu academies you know guys that work for like petzel and marmot and

00:36:44.780 solomon and so we have this group of friends that are all very diverse and really really good at what

00:36:50.080 they do and so we put together this um i guess last year was kind of like a very intense hectic

00:36:54.720 pace it was like a 36 hour event and we did everything from um you know repelling on the 100

00:37:01.480 foot tower to a full-size military obstacle course we did slaughtering and butchering um small game

00:37:08.460 we did a self-defense we did medical stuff and we did a firearms training and we got another one

00:37:15.240 coming up here which i guess in about 10 days and it'll be a similar format a little bit longer

00:37:20.140 we'll add a night kind of race challenge to it as well and uh we're also adding uh carvings this year

00:37:25.700 so it'll be some mid-distance rifle work very cool very cool yeah i wish i could have made it out this

00:37:30.520 year but uh things got in the way unfortunately family can do that and work can do that but uh you're

00:37:36.740 also up in oklahoma so it's you know a little bit more of a commitment for you but the yeah honestly

00:37:41.100 the vanguard is an event that it really just gets people out and gets them exposure and it's very

00:37:47.220 brief exposure you know i mean you we can't become a you know a world-class butcher in a three-hour

00:37:52.080 class you know or or uh get a black belt in brazilian jiu-jitsu in a few years much less you know three

00:37:58.280 hours but uh what it does is it kind of gives everyone exposure it's kind of like i think you

00:38:02.340 use the term a lot on your site primer yes a primer too you know so they're getting like just a little

00:38:08.000 bit of exposure by someone who's a really qualified instructor and what that can do is kind of like

00:38:13.360 give them a taste of what what's out there you know so maybe one of those things where it's like oh i

00:38:17.860 really like this whole thing of grappling or hey maybe i want to get into hunting or um you know the

00:38:22.620 guys that are the williamson county tac medics are coming out and they're doing the first aid and

00:38:27.100 trauma management so it's one of those things where like hey maybe i should start carrying a

00:38:30.620 trauma kit in my vehicle in case something happens to a member of my family or you know someone

00:38:35.400 who's out on the road in a car accident so it's kind of an idea is giving all these people these

00:38:39.860 skills that um over time i think our society has really started to neglect and just kind of forgot

00:38:45.100 we got really lucky with our group of friends too because they're all so good at those skill sets and

00:38:51.020 so good at teaching those skill sets and you got to experience all that but i mean to have a group

00:38:54.840 of guys like that that are willing to volunteer their time and are so knowledgeable and entertaining

00:38:59.480 and able to instruct it's really a cool experience yeah definitely for sure so well jake todd where can

00:39:05.020 people find out more about atomic athlete www.atomic-athlete.com go check it out guys it's

00:39:13.160 pretty cool i think you'll dig it well jake signs todd moore thank you so much for your time it's been

00:39:16.800 a pleasure yeah man thank you brett thanks brett my guests they were jake signs and todd moore

00:39:21.560 they're the owners of atomic athlete gym in austin texas and if you're in the austin area go check it

00:39:25.780 out uh you're gonna like it and if you're not in the austin area you can find out more information

00:39:29.380 about their online programming at atomic-athlete.com i've done it it will kick your butt uh it's a

00:39:35.920 workout for sure well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for

00:39:42.980 more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com

00:39:47.160 and while you're at it check out our store it's store.artofmanliness.com we've got our detective's

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00:40:31.480 you

The Art of Manliness - July 31, 2025

#159： Stronger, Faster, Harder to Kill

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