Colonel Kingseed talks about his close friendship with Major Dick Winter and the lessons he learned from him in life, leadership, family, and other areas of his life. He also talks about how the friendship led to the creation of a book written about Dick's life and career.
00:00:00.000brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so if you read
00:00:18.800band of brothers or at least in the miniseries you are probably familiar with the name major
00:00:22.600dick winters he was a member of the band of brothers easy company part of the airborne division
00:00:27.540that dropped into normandy on d-day was there at the battle of the bulge that captured hitler's
00:00:32.780eagles nest at the end of the end of the war all the band of brothers we've written about several
00:00:36.360of them on the site before all of them had something that set them apart from each other
00:00:39.540right they all had their unique talents with dick winters the thing that probably set him apart from
00:00:43.820the other men in his company was his leadership ability he displayed phenomenal leadership today
00:00:49.600on the podcast we're going to talk to someone who had a close friendship with dick winters in the
00:00:53.980latter part of his years helped dick write his personal memoirs of his wartime experience after
00:00:59.920the band of brothers series was released and his name is colonel kingseed he is a retired colonel
00:01:05.580from the army and he helped write dick winters memoirs but after dick winters died a few years ago
00:01:12.600colonel kingseed wrote a book put about a put out a book called conversations with major dick winners
00:01:18.560just highlighting some of the conversations that he had with dick about leadership about character about
00:01:23.340courage about family about friendship about old age and just all these life lessons so in this book
00:01:30.640actually was a big source in our article we did a few a few months ago called the way the monastic
00:01:35.540warrior lessons from dick winners so i had to get him on to talk about it great conversation a lot of
00:01:40.580practical takeaways on how to be a better man in all aspects of your life your physical fitness
00:01:45.060courage your character your leadership so without further ado colonel cold kingseed and
00:01:50.500conversations with major dick winters okay well dick winters was the commander of an elite airborne
00:02:06.340company in world war ii that company was easy company second battalion 506 parachute infantry regiment
00:02:16.500easy company was the uh subject of stephen ambrose's best selling book called band of brothers and this
00:02:27.420uh band of brothers later became um um hbo miniseries uh 10 part miniseries on world war ii
00:02:36.800yeah and it's one of my favorite miniseries and i know a lot of people uh love that that that miniseries
00:02:43.520the series of movies um before we get to more about your relationship with with dick winters
00:02:49.600because it's fantastic it's the subject of your book conversations with dick winters um let's talk
00:02:54.280about more about his actual involvement uh specific actions he took or battles he was a part of as a
00:03:02.900commander in of easy company well he became the uh commander of easy company on d-day uh the company
00:03:12.380commander of easy company was shot down uh on a night uh a night drop and dick was the second in
00:03:19.280command so he fought on d-day uh another week later uh staying in normandy they fought at the battle of
00:03:28.580karentan and they also uh participated in what they um another airborne jump in holland
00:03:37.600and um and then of course the most significant battle that dick fought was in the battle of the
00:03:44.240bulge where the 101st airborne company was surrounded by several german um divisions and at war's end
00:03:53.280dick's company was uh responsible for the capture of hitler's uh eagle's nest at berchtesgarten
00:04:00.260and that's all uh documented in the book and you can see that as well in the the film or the series
00:04:07.100brand band of brothers um i'm curious how did you meet major winters did you know who he was
00:04:15.240before you met him or how did that happen no no very very interesting uh before i retired from the army
00:04:22.280in 2001 i was the chief of military history at the united states military academy at west point new york
00:04:29.860during that time happened to coincide with the 50th anniversary of world war ii and what i used to
00:04:38.400encourage my officers is to invite these veterans of world war ii to talk to the cadets at west point
00:04:45.900and i had one of my officers in 1998 who came to my office and told me that he had invited major
00:04:54.900dick winters a band of brothers to speak to the cadets i never heard of dick winters at that time
00:05:01.560i had read uh band of brothers but it had been years before and the name just didn't register
00:05:07.080for me so what happened is uh uh this officer invited me to join uh major winters uh for dinner
00:05:15.980and it's the only time i've ever pulled rank with one of my other officers and i told him i said
00:05:21.220no i would uh i i will gladly take that invitation but i wanted this to be just the two of us and
00:05:29.560that's really how again and uh and our friendship evolved from that initial dinner meeting at the
00:05:35.740hotel fair right there at the united states military academy at west point and we'll talk more about
00:05:40.540this friendship because it's one of the it's a one of the beautiful parts of the book a conversation
00:05:44.640with dick winters but this that initial meeting led to you helping him uh write his own memoirs of
00:05:51.720the war after the band of brothers book came out well no not you know what i don't think dick was even
00:05:57.380thinking about doing his uh memoirs at you know at the time what really uh got dick thinking about
00:06:04.420writing his memoirs i remember we're talking about um 1998 what uh what really kind of uh encouraged him
00:06:13.840to do that is when the miniseries uh came out spielberg and hanks um when that miniseries
00:06:22.220aired and that was in september of 2001 and i think it was really uh as a result of that
00:06:29.740the miniseries focused on easy company the company that dick commanded in world war ii but dick then
00:06:37.260decided that he wanted to share his memories as of the leader of a daily company and so dick didn't
00:06:45.640even contemplate writing his memoirs until thanksgiving of 2003 okay um let's talk a bit about
00:06:56.740his because he was one of the things that set dick winners apart from other soldiers and all these all
00:07:02.280the men who fought in world or two are fantastic the band of brothers amazing but he was set apart
00:07:07.820as he had just displayed incredible leadership ability um when did winters begin and this is
00:07:15.500something i always forget too when you're you read about these about dick winners you watch the show on
00:07:21.360on tv so these were young guys he was 26 years old at the time but he was displaying just phenomenal
00:07:27.460leadership something you'd expect from a 30 year old a 40 year old who's you know a seasoned veteran
00:07:31.880when did uh major winters start displaying his leadership ability was it at training camp or was
00:07:38.780it something he nurtured along the way well it's a you know it's very interesting brett it's the
00:07:43.800you mentioned 26 years old he was 26 years old at d-day but when he uh joined the army i mean he was uh
00:07:52.400he was on he was just 23 the dick winters that you see in the band of brothers miniseries
00:08:00.360uh the the seasoned um dick winters uh you know he you know he he often reflected upon a couple things
00:08:09.120in his uh in his youth when he was in elementary school and all that but but i really think
00:08:15.040that dick's um really refinement of leadership really came when he became a member of easy company
00:08:24.060and by this time he has he was a second lieutenant so he was a commissioned officer that's the one so
00:08:31.940we're talking about 1942 right when he joined uh that this airborne unit uh the i think it was the
00:08:41.520mantle of command that provided uh dick winters the courage to succeed and to be a leader and i thought
00:08:52.140was it interesting he made that mentioned this throughout several points throughout in the book
00:08:56.420in your conversation with him he he pushed himself really hard during airborne training you know the
00:09:01.860physical training aspect why did he think and the reason he said he did that because he said that
00:09:06.580physical fitness was an important part of leadership why did he think physical fitness was
00:09:11.220an important aspect of being a good leader well part of it is remember remember the unit to which he was
00:09:17.760apart uh easy company which is an airborne company airborne paratroopers have to have the ability
00:09:25.980to fight and to think on on their own because they're often uh very isolated what dick would end up saying
00:09:34.120was simply this easy company airborne training made me it brought out the very best of uh of me uh he
00:09:43.620wanted to be part of uh the best he knew that men's lives were going to be uh you know kind of based on the
00:09:54.920decisions uh that he made so he he was always uh he was a great athlete uh very physically fit
00:10:01.300and what he ended up saying in times of crisis a leader has got to be mentally tough and he says
00:10:09.740mentally tough has its foundation on physical toughness and that's why he ended up doing that
00:10:18.380uh and then that's why i mean he was uh in his quiet time uh he would he was a very reflective leader
00:10:26.540but he he allowed him when he was running uh that gave him time for the personal reflection and he knew
00:10:35.760that he needed that when the time would come for combat actually your books inspired a post that we
00:10:41.700did called the way the monastic warrior uh taking lessons from from dick winners on leadership but
00:10:48.400before we get there let's talk about how did major winners define leadership did he think it was
00:10:54.760something that was innate in men um or was it just a matter of being put in the position and like you
00:11:01.360rose to the challenge or did he have a systematic way of developing it in himself and the men that he
00:11:06.800led and dick always told me this he said he says leadership itself is very difficult to define he often
00:11:14.560quoted general eisenhower eisenhower said this the one quality that can be developed by studious reflection
00:11:22.400and practice is the leadership of men um dick had a tough time uh defining leadership other than that
00:11:33.440but it was very easy for him to define a leader and he said that a leader is a is a person who has not only
00:11:43.760the ability but the willingness to achieve exceptional results through people and that's really kind of
00:11:52.240how he focused on leadership are leaders born or made uh it's uh it's uh it is uh you i think dick would argue that uh he was given certain um innate qualities but the leaders that dick winters became really was really based as eisenhower said it was an evolving process based on the studious reflection and practice
00:12:16.240okay um one thing i was interesting you highlight in both books were the the daily practices and habits
00:12:25.280that he continued even in the midst of battle uh to i guess instill self-discipline in himself to be
00:12:33.120a great leader can you talk about some of those habits and daily practices that he he kept going even
00:12:37.760he kept going even during the battle of bolts he was doing these things to to maintain his ability to lead
00:12:42.640well what what he would end up doing uh you know uh prior to d-day he would always get up in the
00:12:48.560morning uh he he was staying um away from the men very similar to what you discussed in your uh on that
00:12:56.000excellent article uh uh he lived a ways and i know we'll talk about this uh uh lived uh a life apart
00:13:04.160uh from his men uh but both in the morning and in the evening he would always take uh uh two to three mile
00:13:12.400run whenever possible during the war what he would end up doing he would still get up in the morning
00:13:20.000he the very first thing he would uh do he would always shave but most times you don't infantrymen
00:13:25.600in war don't shave it for dick was also part of the uh that self-discipline that he thought was
00:13:32.240absolutely uh required he would still end up doing his push-ups his sit-ups and whenever possible he
00:13:40.880would go on a uh on a run or um or a walk just to maintain his physical fitness
00:13:49.440well that's amazing that he even did that during during battle and let's talk a bit about the the
00:13:53.760solitude aspect i mean during the you get the picture you paint in the book conversation with
00:14:00.160dick winners is that he didn't have too many close friends during the war and not too many after the war
00:14:06.000until later in life um but that was a part i mean it seemed like it was part of his plan or strategy
00:14:12.800to be an effective leader how did his solitude or keeping apart from the group help him maintain his
00:14:18.400ability to be an effective leader well he needed he felt the uh the the loneliness had it was all part
00:14:25.840of his uh give him time to personally reflect what dick told me many times i think that maybe this is
00:14:31.680what kind of brought us together we used to chuckle about this he said i like to count my close friends
00:14:37.760on one hand but now here's the other thing that you uh that was so uh relevant and does this he goes i
00:14:45.120don't want anyone to know me and what he and what was the reason he he felt that way he said if he had
00:14:54.720personal relationships that would cloud his judgment when times were uh tough and he he didn't want to
00:15:04.240end up doing he wanted his uh mind to be focused on the job at hand he said if i developed too many
00:15:12.720friends or personal friends even outside the unit that that would cloud his judgment and that would
00:15:19.440and he wanted to stay focused because he clearly understood that the lives of those paratroopers were
00:15:24.640based on decisions that he was going to make but this isn't to say that uh he was like really
00:15:31.200ice cold and aloof he was he displayed great leadership he balanced it with a bit of warmth
00:15:36.400but with distance i guess it would be the best way to describe it yeah you know what brett that's
00:15:41.040exactly right and in the in the uh in the book uh on the um on his memoirs beyond band of brothers
00:15:51.680um he he he gives you a a wonderful balance prior to d-day he said it's been he's writing to a platonic
00:16:02.160friend and we can talk about that later on if you desire and he says i want you to picture
00:16:07.920it is the spring in england this is the uh couple months prior to the day and uh an easy company is
00:16:15.440out maneuvers in the english uh countryside it is wet he said it's always raining in the england in the
00:16:23.280spring and i want you to picture a paratrooper in a foxhole uh cold and wet and he looks talk to the
00:16:32.080east and he sees a figure approaching him and now dick writes saying he kind of says it's me because
00:16:39.520i'm the only officer that out that early in the morning and i said i go down i go down on one knee
00:16:48.000and i asked the soldier how he's doing and this uh soldier paratrooper uh is shivering and he takes
00:16:55.280a picture of his girlfriend from his helmet and he says up to lieutenant winners at this time this is
00:17:01.520prior to d-day i want you to promise me that i will get a chance to see my girlfriend again well dick
00:17:09.520can't do that but what he does do what he does do is he tells him i will do everything within my power
00:17:19.200to ensure that you get a chance to see him the secret of dick winter's leadership the loneliness
00:17:25.680is simply this breath dick began the war as an enlisted soldier and he never forgot
00:17:34.960where he came from dick used to refer to himself as a half breed that was his words an officer yes
00:17:42.080but an enlisted paratrooper at heart and that balance is really what propelled him uh to the uh
00:17:50.720through the war one thing major lists major winners listed as an important aspect of becoming a good
00:17:56.560leader is the development of character can you tell us a bit about the character of major winners well he
00:18:05.040was uh you know what brad he was a very complicated man he was very difficult to know once you got once
00:18:12.080he allowed you into his inner circle you could uh discern the essence of uh of dick winners he thought
00:18:19.760that character was really the very foundation of leadership character revolves uh around doing the right thing
00:18:27.840all the time character implies really daily choices and right over wrong i would i would say this
00:18:34.320yes and what dick would talk about character because he always talked about character in war he says war
00:18:40.880doesn't alter character war merely brings out the best that an individual has to offer and the dick winters
00:18:51.360that i knew uh in the very latter stages of his wife that was the same dick winters that the public knew
00:19:00.800who watched band of brothers he it it never changes that's because he felt because
00:19:07.360as i said dick was clearly uh he was cognizant of his uh of his role as a result of the publicity of band of brothers
00:19:18.000and uh he he his character never changed he says that you know war brings out uh sometimes the best
00:19:25.840and also as you know and the worst in men uh and dick winners have brought out the very best
00:19:32.400yeah and you you mentioned some actions that are just that kind of it i think um reflect reflected
00:19:38.560his character in spades was even like after the war he he went to the irs to like pay back taxes while
00:19:45.440he was gone like and he didn't have to do that but he said he wanted to do it anyways in fact in fact when
00:19:52.240he when he went there to the um the postmaster said you do not have to end up doing good and says yes
00:19:59.840i do have to do it because i have an obligation to uh you know pay the taxes that tells me a lot about
00:20:08.320dick winters character as i said it was the uh it revolves around doing the right thing all the time
00:20:15.120not just when someone's uh looking at you yeah is it what i mean what lessons can men today take from
00:20:21.200major winners on developing a solid character like he had well i you know i think it's the uh i think
00:20:29.200the best uh i think his greatest legacy is simply is you uh is to be true to yourself uh never compromise
00:20:38.000your integrity and if you can look in yourself at the mayor at the end of the day and say you have
00:20:43.520done a good job um everything else will be okay okay excuse me um so here's another aspect of his
00:20:52.320character that i thought was interesting because oftentimes we think of soldiers out at war they
00:20:58.560start they carouse they sort of let loose they let let go of their morals it's battles you know what
00:21:03.600happens in war stays in war but while he was preparing for the invasion of normandy rather than
00:21:09.360going out of the town to with all the men in his unit to paint the town red uh winners preferred to
00:21:15.600stay home and have quiet evenings with this english family um with which he was lodging um i mean and
00:21:22.560then i thought it was interesting too you talk about in the book that in the original band of brothers
00:21:26.640miniseries they had him swearing and sort of being like a typical soldier what did dick winners do in
00:21:35.040response when he first saw that or heard about the the the amount of swearing that was happening in the
00:21:39.920movie well hey uh tom hanks had called him and they and dick winners and tom hanks were very uh
00:21:48.720dear friends uh through that and uh after the production had been finished as far as filming
00:21:58.080before it was viewed by the public tom hanks called dick winners and he says what do you think about it
00:22:05.040and uh dick responded says i don't like it tom the man that you you have figured uh portraying me
00:22:12.480damian lewis is cursing and swearing and is very profane and you know that i'm not like that
00:22:20.240and i don't want some young boy or girl to watch that and think that that's the type of character that i am
00:22:28.080so and then dick then followed up and says i want you to change it and uh to his credit tom
00:22:34.880hanks uh called the studio in london said dick's displeased with it and i want want that to be
00:22:41.680changed and dick and then dick said that's what it is that's what i'm talking about that his character
00:22:47.760never changes even with all the publicity and everything he was always true to himself and he
00:22:55.040wanted to make sure that that he was setting the proper example uh that's it i think that's part of his
00:23:01.920great uh legacy just wanting to be an example all the time all the time that's what i'm saying it's
00:23:09.200the uh character implies daily choices of right over wrong okay so we talked a little bit about this
00:23:18.080um touched on it a bit but i want to go more into detail because he talks about it in at length in the
00:23:23.840book um and that is one of the hardest things about being a leader whether you're in the military or in
00:23:30.480a business is keeping morale up amongst the those you lead and it's doubly difficult during battle but
00:23:38.800major winners was able to do this how did he keep how he's able to keep morale up even during the battle
00:23:44.640of the bulge when there was just it was freezing cold constant shelling what did he do to keep morale
00:23:49.360up amongst his troops well he was again he goes back to being uh uh true to himself dick winters uh
00:23:56.640one of the reasons why he became such an effective leader and that even during the battle of balls
00:24:02.240the individual paratroopers in easy company would always say long after the war the best leader they
00:24:09.040ever met was captain or major winters whatever he happened to be and the thing is simply this dick winters
00:24:16.400um led through example rather than um by rank um or by fear he always led by example and what dick would
00:24:30.320end up doing uh during the battle of the bulge uh and uh stephen ambrose the author who uh wrote band
00:24:37.040the brother said this uh you know three or four uh three or four days uh under artillery bombardment is
00:24:46.560hell a week is worse than hell and what dick would end up doing he said you have to know your soldiers
00:24:56.240so well that you can detect when they are about ready to uh crack under pressure
00:25:03.920and then then then you have to pull them off the line and but you you need to not understand
00:25:11.200what are the symptoms or what you're uh you know when a soldier has had enough i asked dick about
00:25:17.600this i it was the first time i asked dick about that i said you know what gosh darn it why didn't you
00:25:24.080crack under pressure now very first time before i knew him too well he said well i'm pennsylvania
00:25:29.920dutch i don't break well okay but there are a lot of soldiers who did break later on i got to know
00:25:36.400him a little bit better he said you understand you have to understand that the battle of bulge uh my
00:25:43.280command post was only 75 yards from the front line you might not think that 75 yards is much distance
00:25:53.280but it's a tremendous amount of difference because you don't have uh the individual uh observation
00:26:01.760from the enemy to where you are so you need to then have to get up get around talk to the soldiers
00:26:09.120just to convince them uh that things are going to be uh all right you know all right he said in a
00:26:16.480long time he demonstrates courage he said listen everybody is is uh is fearful in war he says
00:26:23.200courage is not the absence of fear but rather the willingness to rise above fear and to do the things
00:26:30.960that you know need to be accomplished and that's what he was doing and he had to do he had the command
00:26:37.120presence and his willingness to share the hardships with the men that uh that and that that's what
00:26:44.880inspired him he led from the front always let uh he led from the front um let's go back to the
00:26:53.760friendship i can understand why keeping a distance uh from his soldiers would help him be an effective
00:27:00.160leader um but you mentioned his platonic pen pal so this is a gal that he he met before going over to
00:27:08.080europe and they were writing each other letters and you can the way you describe it it seems like she
00:27:13.920wanted a bit more than just friendship um but dick always again kept her at a distance for some
00:27:21.280reason why did he why did he do that even with personal relationships yeah well you know what is
00:27:25.840very interesting he uh her name by the way was getta allman uh and uh uh dick and uh another one of the
00:27:34.480officers had met getta and one of her friends really right around uh in late 1941 and in in the friendship uh
00:27:43.760um evolved uh it wasn't a physical uh relationship uh at that time and then is when when dick uh
00:27:54.240deploys to england and certainly uh in the last year of the war from uh the battle of the bulge uh to uh
00:28:02.080berthesgarden she you know she she definitely wants more of the relationship and dick and dick atoni says i know
00:28:11.680you want me to say those three little words but i don't feel it he goes my family my focus are all
00:28:19.520the soldiers of easy company and he didn't want to have any distractions uh for i read those letters
00:28:27.200and i and i called dick winners i said uh dick i have to tell you if if i i'm reading that your
00:28:33.440response is uh to this i would dump you in a heartbeat uh you know you know on that he goes he
00:28:40.560goes but you have to understand my focus had to be on the welfare of my troops and i did not want to
00:28:51.200have any personal distractions that would uh take me away from what i knew uh had to be done in fact you
00:29:01.440know you talk your your article is is uh excellent in the way of the monastic warrior what you end up
00:29:07.680saying you know dick had the ability to leave behind them you know the maddening crowd to uh develop
00:29:14.240himself completely and to fight and lead in whatever kinds of battles he finds himself and they may not
00:29:21.680be in combat that might be personal batter uh battles as well and again that's why he he had to have
00:29:28.560he had like a razor-like focus on what needed to be done yeah he had a mission objective in any moment
00:29:37.120in life and he understood that you know the decisions that he made would affect
00:29:43.920the uh the lives of those soldiers to me there's always been something uh brett that you know i call
00:29:50.080this a difference um between a leader and a commander yeah you you can become a leader based on the
00:29:58.400you know the rank that you wear or anything else uh the position that you hold but the commander in war
00:30:06.000has to make individuals or decisions that affects the lives of individual soldiers i when i talk about
00:30:16.080when i think about dick winters i don't think of himself as dick winters the leader i see him as
00:30:21.760dick winters the commander who is willing to go ahead and make those critical decisions that affects
00:30:29.360the lives of individual soldiers excuse me um so he didn't have too many friends during the war not
00:30:38.880too many immediately after the war but you were able to develop this really close friendship and bond
00:30:44.480with him can you tell us a little bit how that friendship developed and what it meant to you
00:30:49.200well first of all it it was it was evolvement it evolved from the very begin of the uh you know when
00:30:58.480first you know what you know i um you know even from the military sense the fact that i still remember
00:31:05.760him when he came out of the elevator at the hotel fair for that initial uh dinner uh when i when he
00:31:12.960walked over there i i wore i wore my uniform and and and the fact that uh and most times i would not do
00:31:20.160that for a social uh engagement uh on that but there was a mutual respect because uh you know we both had
00:31:27.920worn the the the uniform and that respect in the in this evolving friendship transcended generations
00:31:36.240and i think in in war sometimes uh after uh a couple generations uh it will transcend uh nationalities
00:31:45.040uh is as well uh i always said this from the military um sense we were unequal in military rank but before
00:31:53.360we we formed a perfect friendship because the friendship was based on trust and admiration
00:31:59.360it was a friendship free of competition or seeking advantage but having said that it took four i'm sorry five
00:32:11.040years before dick felt comfortable enough to ask me to help him with his memoirs and i guess the last
00:32:21.040thing about that i would end up saying uh that stephen ambrose says this and when he's describing the
00:32:27.600relationship between lewis and clark and undaunted courage he said this the last friendship a man makes
00:32:35.360is often the best one um and i think i i may not have been dick winter's uh best friend i don't think i
00:32:43.280was i think that um honor goes to a man by the name of bob hoffman but i do know this that i was the last
00:32:51.200friendship that he made and i think uh and i think that uh and i think that's the thing that really
00:32:57.040kind of juicy you know it was obviously based on a mutual respect but really common values uh dick uh
00:33:05.760his wife uh ethel winter said this she goes she asked me about this she says why do you think
00:33:11.760that i allow you to come here is often to talk to dick i said uh i said apple i have nothing uh
00:33:21.600i don't have the slightest idea and she said this she said you're the only member of dick's friends
00:33:27.600friends uh circle of friends that who has never asked him for anything a lot of people bring books to
00:33:35.520sign or you want this or and all this but he goes you never have i told that to dick one time he says
00:33:41.680you know what he goes uh and i told him before he before he responded i said there's a lot of things
00:33:47.520up here in your office that i'd love to possess your jump boots from uh d-day and all this i said i would
00:33:54.560never ask for them and i said you know what and what's more is if you offered to them i would never
00:34:00.800take it because i didn't want to be uh kind of uh beholden to him and he said you know what he told
00:34:06.320me right he said this yeah but you have something else that no one else has and then i just smiled
00:34:14.000and said i know i do and that's his friendship well listen to me oh go ahead that's what no that's
00:34:22.880really what it was uh based on that yeah um if you remember in uh in conversations the uh
00:34:31.680i i would like to go there you know right there at very end last time i saw dick was october
00:34:36.800of uh 2010 uh he died on january 2nd of uh 2011. last thing i said to him and i i got very close to
00:34:45.680him and i said this i said dick the country was blessed to have had you in its hour of need and i will
00:34:55.280always cherish our time together and the last thing i told him was i love you as my brother in
00:35:03.040his response brett was simply this don't ever change that and that was the lot those were the last words
00:35:09.840dick winters ever said to me and i and i and i take great pride in that someone asked me he says
00:35:19.200what dick winters you know he he's uh he's not your father uh it was a kind of a father relationship
00:35:25.840father-son relationship said no no no it was a paternal relationship and that's what it was dick winters was my
00:35:33.440brother wow that's very powerful um let's end on this um how did i mean what do you think you kind
00:35:43.600of alluded to earlier but what do you think major winners legacy is today what's his lasting legacy
00:35:49.280besides the things that he did in over there in war but what do you think is his big legacy and uh you
00:35:54.640know what it wasn't the war it wasn't the war yeah i i asked him i i asked him direct on that i said
00:36:01.200what is dick winters legacy to future generations and i and i i phrased the question in the third
00:36:07.440person and his answer simply was this that's easy and i'm going to answer it this way it's the same
00:36:13.840that i have been saying for many years hang tough that was his favorite saying he goes by that i mean
00:36:21.920simply do your best every day whether it's school at your job or anywhere else you don't have to have
00:36:31.440all the answers there's no way you should expect that from yourself just satisfy yourself
00:36:38.240so at the end of the day you can look at yourself in the mirror and say today i did my best if you do
00:36:45.760that you are being honest and everything else will be okay all right so that's a great way to
00:36:51.600end hang tough well colonel keensey thank you so much for your time thank you for writing the books
00:36:56.320it's been a pleasure well the pleasure is mine brett it's the uh it's just you know i take great uh i
00:37:05.440take great pride in the association with the uh what we call the uh the greatest generation i call it the
00:37:12.000the gi generation but the um their their legacy not just dick winners but that whole generation
00:37:20.560uh you know speaks to us today in the 21st century i agree thank you colonel keenseed
00:37:26.720thank you brett take care i guess it was colonel cole kingseed he's the author of the book
00:37:32.560conversations with dick winners you can find that on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere fantastic
00:37:36.800book go pick it up also you can find out more about colonel kingseed's work in leadership development
00:37:42.400he has a program called battlefield leadership where he and other people take corporations out and
00:37:48.320leaders out to battlefields in the u.s civil war battlefields also to normandy and to show these
00:37:54.400leaders in the business field lessons they can take on leadership from military leaders at these
00:37:59.760very big battles so we're talking normandy we're talking gettysburg antietam alamo all sorts of
00:38:06.320great stuff go check it out battlefieldleadership.com well that wraps up another edition of the art of
00:38:14.720manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website
00:38:18.720at artofmanliness.com and if you enjoy the podcast i'd really appreciate it if you give us a review
00:38:22.640on itunes or stitcher help us get more feedback on how to improve the show as well as get the word
00:38:26.960out about the podcast always appreciate your support and until next time this is brett mckay telling you