The Art of Manliness - #163： Leadership Lessons From Major Dick Winters

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so if you read

00:00:18.800 band of brothers or at least in the miniseries you are probably familiar with the name major

00:00:22.600 dick winters he was a member of the band of brothers easy company part of the airborne division

00:00:27.540 that dropped into normandy on d-day was there at the battle of the bulge that captured hitler's

00:00:32.780 eagles nest at the end of the end of the war all the band of brothers we've written about several

00:00:36.360 of them on the site before all of them had something that set them apart from each other

00:00:39.540 right they all had their unique talents with dick winters the thing that probably set him apart from

00:00:43.820 the other men in his company was his leadership ability he displayed phenomenal leadership today 0.73

00:00:49.600 on the podcast we're going to talk to someone who had a close friendship with dick winters in the

00:00:53.980 latter part of his years helped dick write his personal memoirs of his wartime experience after 0.56

00:00:59.920 the band of brothers series was released and his name is colonel kingseed he is a retired colonel 0.93

00:01:05.580 from the army and he helped write dick winters memoirs but after dick winters died a few years ago 0.51

00:01:12.600 colonel kingseed wrote a book put about a put out a book called conversations with major dick winners 0.97

00:01:18.560 just highlighting some of the conversations that he had with dick about leadership about character about

00:01:23.340 courage about family about friendship about old age and just all these life lessons so in this book

00:01:30.640 actually was a big source in our article we did a few a few months ago called the way the monastic

00:01:35.540 warrior lessons from dick winners so i had to get him on to talk about it great conversation a lot of

00:01:40.580 practical takeaways on how to be a better man in all aspects of your life your physical fitness

00:01:45.060 courage your character your leadership so without further ado colonel cold kingseed and 0.60

00:01:50.500 conversations with major dick winters okay well dick winters was the commander of an elite airborne 0.62

00:02:06.340 company in world war ii that company was easy company second battalion 506 parachute infantry regiment 0.96

00:02:16.500 easy company was the uh subject of stephen ambrose's best selling book called band of brothers and this

00:02:27.420 uh band of brothers later became um um hbo miniseries uh 10 part miniseries on world war ii

00:02:36.800 yeah and it's one of my favorite miniseries and i know a lot of people uh love that that that miniseries

00:02:43.520 the series of movies um before we get to more about your relationship with with dick winters

00:02:49.600 because it's fantastic it's the subject of your book conversations with dick winters um let's talk

00:02:54.280 about more about his actual involvement uh specific actions he took or battles he was a part of as a

00:03:02.900 commander in of easy company well he became the uh commander of easy company on d-day uh the company

00:03:12.380 commander of easy company was shot down uh on a night uh a night drop and dick was the second in

00:03:19.280 command so he fought on d-day uh another week later uh staying in normandy they fought at the battle of

00:03:28.580 karentan and they also uh participated in what they um another airborne jump in holland 0.69

00:03:37.600 and um and then of course the most significant battle that dick fought was in the battle of the 0.62

00:03:44.240 bulge where the 101st airborne company was surrounded by several german um divisions and at war's end 0.98

00:03:53.280 dick's company was uh responsible for the capture of hitler's uh eagle's nest at berchtesgarten

00:04:00.260 and that's all uh documented in the book and you can see that as well in the the film or the series

00:04:07.100 brand band of brothers um i'm curious how did you meet major winters did you know who he was

00:04:15.240 before you met him or how did that happen no no very very interesting uh before i retired from the army

00:04:22.280 in 2001 i was the chief of military history at the united states military academy at west point new york

00:04:29.860 during that time happened to coincide with the 50th anniversary of world war ii and what i used to

00:04:38.400 encourage my officers is to invite these veterans of world war ii to talk to the cadets at west point

00:04:45.900 and i had one of my officers in 1998 who came to my office and told me that he had invited major

00:04:54.900 dick winters a band of brothers to speak to the cadets i never heard of dick winters at that time

00:05:01.560 i had read uh band of brothers but it had been years before and the name just didn't register

00:05:07.080 for me so what happened is uh uh this officer invited me to join uh major winters uh for dinner

00:05:15.980 and it's the only time i've ever pulled rank with one of my other officers and i told him i said

00:05:21.220 no i would uh i i will gladly take that invitation but i wanted this to be just the two of us and

00:05:29.560 that's really how again and uh and our friendship evolved from that initial dinner meeting at the

00:05:35.740 hotel fair right there at the united states military academy at west point and we'll talk more about

00:05:40.540 this friendship because it's one of the it's a one of the beautiful parts of the book a conversation

00:05:44.640 with dick winters but this that initial meeting led to you helping him uh write his own memoirs of 0.98

00:05:51.720 the war after the band of brothers book came out well no not you know what i don't think dick was even 0.99

00:05:57.380 thinking about doing his uh memoirs at you know at the time what really uh got dick thinking about

00:06:04.420 writing his memoirs i remember we're talking about um 1998 what uh what really kind of uh encouraged him

00:06:13.840 to do that is when the miniseries uh came out spielberg and hanks um when that miniseries

00:06:22.220 aired and that was in september of 2001 and i think it was really uh as a result of that 0.95

00:06:29.740 the miniseries focused on easy company the company that dick commanded in world war ii but dick then 0.98

00:06:37.260 decided that he wanted to share his memories as of the leader of a daily company and so dick didn't 0.96

00:06:45.640 even contemplate writing his memoirs until thanksgiving of 2003 okay um let's talk a bit about 0.91

00:06:56.740 his because he was one of the things that set dick winners apart from other soldiers and all these all 0.88

00:07:02.280 the men who fought in world or two are fantastic the band of brothers amazing but he was set apart

00:07:07.820 as he had just displayed incredible leadership ability um when did winters begin and this is 0.65

00:07:15.500 something i always forget too when you're you read about these about dick winners you watch the show on

00:07:21.360 on tv so these were young guys he was 26 years old at the time but he was displaying just phenomenal

00:07:27.460 leadership something you'd expect from a 30 year old a 40 year old who's you know a seasoned veteran

00:07:31.880 when did uh major winters start displaying his leadership ability was it at training camp or was

00:07:38.780 it something he nurtured along the way well it's a you know it's very interesting brett it's the

00:07:43.800 you mentioned 26 years old he was 26 years old at d-day but when he uh joined the army i mean he was uh

00:07:52.400 he was on he was just 23 the dick winters that you see in the band of brothers miniseries 0.56

00:08:00.360 uh the the seasoned um dick winters uh you know he you know he he often reflected upon a couple things

00:08:09.120 in his uh in his youth when he was in elementary school and all that but but i really think 0.98

00:08:15.040 that dick's um really refinement of leadership really came when he became a member of easy company 0.77

00:08:24.060 and by this time he has he was a second lieutenant so he was a commissioned officer that's the one so 0.98

00:08:31.940 we're talking about 1942 right when he joined uh that this airborne unit uh the i think it was the

00:08:41.520 mantle of command that provided uh dick winters the courage to succeed and to be a leader and i thought

00:08:52.140 was it interesting he made that mentioned this throughout several points throughout in the book

00:08:56.420 in your conversation with him he he pushed himself really hard during airborne training you know the

00:09:01.860 physical training aspect why did he think and the reason he said he did that because he said that

00:09:06.580 physical fitness was an important part of leadership why did he think physical fitness was

00:09:11.220 an important aspect of being a good leader well part of it is remember remember the unit to which he was

00:09:17.760 apart uh easy company which is an airborne company airborne paratroopers have to have the ability 0.85

00:09:25.980 to fight and to think on on their own because they're often uh very isolated what dick would end up saying

00:09:34.120 was simply this easy company airborne training made me it brought out the very best of uh of me uh he

00:09:43.620 wanted to be part of uh the best he knew that men's lives were going to be uh you know kind of based on the

00:09:54.920 decisions uh that he made so he he was always uh he was a great athlete uh very physically fit

00:10:01.300 and what he ended up saying in times of crisis a leader has got to be mentally tough and he says

00:10:09.740 mentally tough has its foundation on physical toughness and that's why he ended up doing that

00:10:18.380 uh and then that's why i mean he was uh in his quiet time uh he would he was a very reflective leader

00:10:26.540 but he he allowed him when he was running uh that gave him time for the personal reflection and he knew

00:10:35.760 that he needed that when the time would come for combat actually your books inspired a post that we 0.73

00:10:41.700 did called the way the monastic warrior uh taking lessons from from dick winners on leadership but

00:10:48.400 before we get there let's talk about how did major winners define leadership did he think it was 0.91

00:10:54.760 something that was innate in men um or was it just a matter of being put in the position and like you

00:11:01.360 rose to the challenge or did he have a systematic way of developing it in himself and the men that he

00:11:06.800 led and dick always told me this he said he says leadership itself is very difficult to define he often

00:11:14.560 quoted general eisenhower eisenhower said this the one quality that can be developed by studious reflection 0.97

00:11:22.400 and practice is the leadership of men um dick had a tough time uh defining leadership other than that

00:11:33.440 but it was very easy for him to define a leader and he said that a leader is a is a person who has not only

00:11:43.760 the ability but the willingness to achieve exceptional results through people and that's really kind of

00:11:52.240 how he focused on leadership are leaders born or made uh it's uh it's uh it is uh you i think dick would argue that uh he was given certain um innate qualities but the leaders that dick winters became really was really based as eisenhower said it was an evolving process based on the studious reflection and practice

00:12:16.240 okay um one thing i was interesting you highlight in both books were the the daily practices and habits

00:12:25.280 that he continued even in the midst of battle uh to i guess instill self-discipline in himself to be

00:12:33.120 a great leader can you talk about some of those habits and daily practices that he he kept going even

00:12:37.760 he kept going even during the battle of bolts he was doing these things to to maintain his ability to lead

00:12:42.640 well what what he would end up doing uh you know uh prior to d-day he would always get up in the

00:12:48.560 morning uh he he was staying um away from the men very similar to what you discussed in your uh on that

00:12:56.000 excellent article uh uh he lived a ways and i know we'll talk about this uh uh lived uh a life apart

00:13:04.160 uh from his men uh but both in the morning and in the evening he would always take uh uh two to three mile

00:13:12.400 run whenever possible during the war what he would end up doing he would still get up in the morning

00:13:20.000 he the very first thing he would uh do he would always shave but most times you don't infantrymen 0.97

00:13:25.600 in war don't shave it for dick was also part of the uh that self-discipline that he thought was 0.90

00:13:32.240 absolutely uh required he would still end up doing his push-ups his sit-ups and whenever possible he 0.95

00:13:40.880 would go on a uh on a run or um or a walk just to maintain his physical fitness

00:13:49.440 well that's amazing that he even did that during during battle and let's talk a bit about the the

00:13:53.760 solitude aspect i mean during the you get the picture you paint in the book conversation with

00:14:00.160 dick winners is that he didn't have too many close friends during the war and not too many after the war

00:14:06.000 until later in life um but that was a part i mean it seemed like it was part of his plan or strategy

00:14:12.800 to be an effective leader how did his solitude or keeping apart from the group help him maintain his

00:14:18.400 ability to be an effective leader well he needed he felt the uh the the loneliness had it was all part 0.95

00:14:25.840 of his uh give him time to personally reflect what dick told me many times i think that maybe this is 0.63

00:14:31.680 what kind of brought us together we used to chuckle about this he said i like to count my close friends 0.63

00:14:37.760 on one hand but now here's the other thing that you uh that was so uh relevant and does this he goes i

00:14:45.120 don't want anyone to know me and what he and what was the reason he he felt that way he said if he had

00:14:54.720 personal relationships that would cloud his judgment when times were uh tough and he he didn't want to

00:15:04.240 end up doing he wanted his uh mind to be focused on the job at hand he said if i developed too many

00:15:12.720 friends or personal friends even outside the unit that that would cloud his judgment and that would

00:15:19.440 and he wanted to stay focused because he clearly understood that the lives of those paratroopers were

00:15:24.640 based on decisions that he was going to make but this isn't to say that uh he was like really

00:15:31.200 ice cold and aloof he was he displayed great leadership he balanced it with a bit of warmth

00:15:36.400 but with distance i guess it would be the best way to describe it yeah you know what brett that's

00:15:41.040 exactly right and in the in the uh in the book uh on the um on his memoirs beyond band of brothers

00:15:51.680 um he he he gives you a a wonderful balance prior to d-day he said it's been he's writing to a platonic

00:16:02.160 friend and we can talk about that later on if you desire and he says i want you to picture

00:16:07.920 it is the spring in england this is the uh couple months prior to the day and uh an easy company is

00:16:15.440 out maneuvers in the english uh countryside it is wet he said it's always raining in the england in the

00:16:23.280 spring and i want you to picture a paratrooper in a foxhole uh cold and wet and he looks talk to the

00:16:32.080 east and he sees a figure approaching him and now dick writes saying he kind of says it's me because

00:16:39.520 i'm the only officer that out that early in the morning and i said i go down i go down on one knee

00:16:48.000 and i asked the soldier how he's doing and this uh soldier paratrooper uh is shivering and he takes

00:16:55.280 a picture of his girlfriend from his helmet and he says up to lieutenant winners at this time this is 0.98

00:17:01.520 prior to d-day i want you to promise me that i will get a chance to see my girlfriend again well dick 0.76

00:17:09.520 can't do that but what he does do what he does do is he tells him i will do everything within my power 0.94

00:17:19.200 to ensure that you get a chance to see him the secret of dick winter's leadership the loneliness 0.98

00:17:25.680 is simply this breath dick began the war as an enlisted soldier and he never forgot 0.99

00:17:34.960 where he came from dick used to refer to himself as a half breed that was his words an officer yes 1.00

00:17:42.080 but an enlisted paratrooper at heart and that balance is really what propelled him uh to the uh 0.93

00:17:50.720 through the war one thing major lists major winners listed as an important aspect of becoming a good

00:17:56.560 leader is the development of character can you tell us a bit about the character of major winners well he

00:18:05.040 was uh you know what brad he was a very complicated man he was very difficult to know once you got once

00:18:12.080 he allowed you into his inner circle you could uh discern the essence of uh of dick winners he thought

00:18:19.760 that character was really the very foundation of leadership character revolves uh around doing the right thing

00:18:27.840 all the time character implies really daily choices and right over wrong i would i would say this

00:18:34.320 yes and what dick would talk about character because he always talked about character in war he says war 0.97

00:18:40.880 doesn't alter character war merely brings out the best that an individual has to offer and the dick winters 0.98

00:18:51.360 that i knew uh in the very latter stages of his wife that was the same dick winters that the public knew

00:19:00.800 who watched band of brothers he it it never changes that's because he felt because 0.95

00:19:07.360 as i said dick was clearly uh he was cognizant of his uh of his role as a result of the publicity of band of brothers

00:19:18.000 and uh he he his character never changed he says that you know war brings out uh sometimes the best 0.98

00:19:25.840 and also as you know and the worst in men uh and dick winners have brought out the very best 0.50

00:19:32.400 yeah and you you mentioned some actions that are just that kind of it i think um reflect reflected

00:19:38.560 his character in spades was even like after the war he he went to the irs to like pay back taxes while

00:19:45.440 he was gone like and he didn't have to do that but he said he wanted to do it anyways in fact in fact when

00:19:52.240 he when he went there to the um the postmaster said you do not have to end up doing good and says yes

00:19:59.840 i do have to do it because i have an obligation to uh you know pay the taxes that tells me a lot about

00:20:08.320 dick winters character as i said it was the uh it revolves around doing the right thing all the time

00:20:15.120 not just when someone's uh looking at you yeah is it what i mean what lessons can men today take from

00:20:21.200 major winners on developing a solid character like he had well i you know i think it's the uh i think

00:20:29.200 the best uh i think his greatest legacy is simply is you uh is to be true to yourself uh never compromise

00:20:38.000 your integrity and if you can look in yourself at the mayor at the end of the day and say you have

00:20:43.520 done a good job um everything else will be okay okay excuse me um so here's another aspect of his

00:20:52.320 character that i thought was interesting because oftentimes we think of soldiers out at war they

00:20:58.560 start they carouse they sort of let loose they let let go of their morals it's battles you know what

00:21:03.600 happens in war stays in war but while he was preparing for the invasion of normandy rather than

00:21:09.360 going out of the town to with all the men in his unit to paint the town red uh winners preferred to

00:21:15.600 stay home and have quiet evenings with this english family um with which he was lodging um i mean and

00:21:22.560 then i thought it was interesting too you talk about in the book that in the original band of brothers

00:21:26.640 miniseries they had him swearing and sort of being like a typical soldier what did dick winners do in

00:21:35.040 response when he first saw that or heard about the the the amount of swearing that was happening in the

00:21:39.920 movie well hey uh tom hanks had called him and they and dick winners and tom hanks were very uh

00:21:48.720 dear friends uh through that and uh after the production had been finished as far as filming

00:21:58.080 before it was viewed by the public tom hanks called dick winners and he says what do you think about it

00:22:05.040 and uh dick responded says i don't like it tom the man that you you have figured uh portraying me 0.89

00:22:12.480 damian lewis is cursing and swearing and is very profane and you know that i'm not like that 0.80

00:22:20.240 and i don't want some young boy or girl to watch that and think that that's the type of character that i am

00:22:28.080 so and then dick then followed up and says i want you to change it and uh to his credit tom 0.81

00:22:34.880 hanks uh called the studio in london said dick's displeased with it and i want want that to be 0.98

00:22:41.680 changed and dick and then dick said that's what it is that's what i'm talking about that his character 0.98

00:22:47.760 never changes even with all the publicity and everything he was always true to himself and he 0.99

00:22:55.040 wanted to make sure that that he was setting the proper example uh that's it i think that's part of his

00:23:01.920 great uh legacy just wanting to be an example all the time all the time that's what i'm saying it's

00:23:09.200 the uh character implies daily choices of right over wrong okay so we talked a little bit about this

00:23:18.080 um touched on it a bit but i want to go more into detail because he talks about it in at length in the

00:23:23.840 book um and that is one of the hardest things about being a leader whether you're in the military or in

00:23:30.480 a business is keeping morale up amongst the those you lead and it's doubly difficult during battle but

00:23:38.800 major winners was able to do this how did he keep how he's able to keep morale up even during the battle

00:23:44.640 of the bulge when there was just it was freezing cold constant shelling what did he do to keep morale

00:23:49.360 up amongst his troops well he was again he goes back to being uh uh true to himself dick winters uh 0.98

00:23:56.640 one of the reasons why he became such an effective leader and that even during the battle of balls 0.92

00:24:02.240 the individual paratroopers in easy company would always say long after the war the best leader they 0.97

00:24:09.040 ever met was captain or major winters whatever he happened to be and the thing is simply this dick winters 0.99

00:24:16.400 um led through example rather than um by rank um or by fear he always led by example and what dick would 0.80

00:24:30.320 end up doing uh during the battle of the bulge uh and uh stephen ambrose the author who uh wrote band

00:24:37.040 the brother said this uh you know three or four uh three or four days uh under artillery bombardment is

00:24:46.560 hell a week is worse than hell and what dick would end up doing he said you have to know your soldiers 0.97

00:24:56.240 so well that you can detect when they are about ready to uh crack under pressure 0.99

00:25:03.920 and then then then you have to pull them off the line and but you you need to not understand 0.97

00:25:11.200 what are the symptoms or what you're uh you know when a soldier has had enough i asked dick about 0.99

00:25:17.600 this i it was the first time i asked dick about that i said you know what gosh darn it why didn't you 0.98

00:25:24.080 crack under pressure now very first time before i knew him too well he said well i'm pennsylvania

00:25:29.920 dutch i don't break well okay but there are a lot of soldiers who did break later on i got to know

00:25:36.400 him a little bit better he said you understand you have to understand that the battle of bulge uh my

00:25:43.280 command post was only 75 yards from the front line you might not think that 75 yards is much distance

00:25:53.280 but it's a tremendous amount of difference because you don't have uh the individual uh observation

00:26:01.760 from the enemy to where you are so you need to then have to get up get around talk to the soldiers

00:26:09.120 just to convince them uh that things are going to be uh all right you know all right he said in a

00:26:16.480 long time he demonstrates courage he said listen everybody is is uh is fearful in war he says

00:26:23.200 courage is not the absence of fear but rather the willingness to rise above fear and to do the things

00:26:30.960 that you know need to be accomplished and that's what he was doing and he had to do he had the command

00:26:37.120 presence and his willingness to share the hardships with the men that uh that and that that's what

00:26:44.880 inspired him he led from the front always let uh he led from the front um let's go back to the

00:26:53.760 friendship i can understand why keeping a distance uh from his soldiers would help him be an effective

00:27:00.160 leader um but you mentioned his platonic pen pal so this is a gal that he he met before going over to

00:27:08.080 europe and they were writing each other letters and you can the way you describe it it seems like she 0.95

00:27:13.920 wanted a bit more than just friendship um but dick always again kept her at a distance for some 0.99

00:27:21.280 reason why did he why did he do that even with personal relationships yeah well you know what is 0.99

00:27:25.840 very interesting he uh her name by the way was getta allman uh and uh uh dick and uh another one of the 0.70

00:27:34.480 officers had met getta and one of her friends really right around uh in late 1941 and in in the friendship uh 0.64

00:27:43.760 um evolved uh it wasn't a physical uh relationship uh at that time and then is when when dick uh

00:27:54.240 deploys to england and certainly uh in the last year of the war from uh the battle of the bulge uh to uh 0.99

00:28:02.080 berthesgarden she you know she she definitely wants more of the relationship and dick and dick atoni says i know 0.98

00:28:11.680 you want me to say those three little words but i don't feel it he goes my family my focus are all 0.98

00:28:19.520 the soldiers of easy company and he didn't want to have any distractions uh for i read those letters 0.92

00:28:27.200 and i and i called dick winners i said uh dick i have to tell you if if i i'm reading that your 0.99

00:28:33.440 response is uh to this i would dump you in a heartbeat uh you know you know on that he goes he 0.99

00:28:40.560 goes but you have to understand my focus had to be on the welfare of my troops and i did not want to

00:28:51.200 have any personal distractions that would uh take me away from what i knew uh had to be done in fact you

00:29:01.440 know you talk your your article is is uh excellent in the way of the monastic warrior what you end up

00:29:07.680 saying you know dick had the ability to leave behind them you know the maddening crowd to uh develop

00:29:14.240 himself completely and to fight and lead in whatever kinds of battles he finds himself and they may not 0.96

00:29:21.680 be in combat that might be personal batter uh battles as well and again that's why he he had to have

00:29:28.560 he had like a razor-like focus on what needed to be done yeah he had a mission objective in any moment

00:29:37.120 in life and he understood that you know the decisions that he made would affect

00:29:43.920 the uh the lives of those soldiers to me there's always been something uh brett that you know i call

00:29:50.080 this a difference um between a leader and a commander yeah you you can become a leader based on the

00:29:58.400 you know the rank that you wear or anything else uh the position that you hold but the commander in war

00:30:06.000 has to make individuals or decisions that affects the lives of individual soldiers i when i talk about 0.58

00:30:16.080 when i think about dick winters i don't think of himself as dick winters the leader i see him as 0.94

00:30:21.760 dick winters the commander who is willing to go ahead and make those critical decisions that affects 0.96

00:30:29.360 the lives of individual soldiers excuse me um so he didn't have too many friends during the war not

00:30:38.880 too many immediately after the war but you were able to develop this really close friendship and bond

00:30:44.480 with him can you tell us a little bit how that friendship developed and what it meant to you

00:30:49.200 well first of all it it was it was evolvement it evolved from the very begin of the uh you know when

00:30:58.480 first you know what you know i um you know even from the military sense the fact that i still remember

00:31:05.760 him when he came out of the elevator at the hotel fair for that initial uh dinner uh when i when he

00:31:12.960 walked over there i i wore i wore my uniform and and and the fact that uh and most times i would not do

00:31:20.160 that for a social uh engagement uh on that but there was a mutual respect because uh you know we both had

00:31:27.920 worn the the the uniform and that respect in the in this evolving friendship transcended generations

00:31:36.240 and i think in in war sometimes uh after uh a couple generations uh it will transcend uh nationalities

00:31:45.040 uh is as well uh i always said this from the military um sense we were unequal in military rank but before

00:31:53.360 we we formed a perfect friendship because the friendship was based on trust and admiration

00:31:59.360 it was a friendship free of competition or seeking advantage but having said that it took four i'm sorry five

00:32:11.040 years before dick felt comfortable enough to ask me to help him with his memoirs and i guess the last

00:32:21.040 thing about that i would end up saying uh that stephen ambrose says this and when he's describing the 0.78

00:32:27.600 relationship between lewis and clark and undaunted courage he said this the last friendship a man makes

00:32:35.360 is often the best one um and i think i i may not have been dick winter's uh best friend i don't think i

00:32:43.280 was i think that um honor goes to a man by the name of bob hoffman but i do know this that i was the last

00:32:51.200 friendship that he made and i think uh and i think that uh and i think that's the thing that really

00:32:57.040 kind of juicy you know it was obviously based on a mutual respect but really common values uh dick uh

00:33:05.760 his wife uh ethel winter said this she goes she asked me about this she says why do you think 0.99

00:33:11.760 that i allow you to come here is often to talk to dick i said uh i said apple i have nothing uh 0.98

00:33:21.600 i don't have the slightest idea and she said this she said you're the only member of dick's friends 0.95

00:33:27.600 friends uh circle of friends that who has never asked him for anything a lot of people bring books to 0.97

00:33:35.520 sign or you want this or and all this but he goes you never have i told that to dick one time he says 0.84

00:33:41.680 you know what he goes uh and i told him before he before he responded i said there's a lot of things

00:33:47.520 up here in your office that i'd love to possess your jump boots from uh d-day and all this i said i would

00:33:54.560 never ask for them and i said you know what and what's more is if you offered to them i would never

00:34:00.800 take it because i didn't want to be uh kind of uh beholden to him and he said you know what he told

00:34:06.320 me right he said this yeah but you have something else that no one else has and then i just smiled

00:34:14.000 and said i know i do and that's his friendship well listen to me oh go ahead that's what no that's

00:34:22.880 really what it was uh based on that yeah um if you remember in uh in conversations the uh 0.89

00:34:31.680 i i would like to go there you know right there at very end last time i saw dick was october

00:34:36.800 of uh 2010 uh he died on january 2nd of uh 2011. last thing i said to him and i i got very close to

00:34:45.680 him and i said this i said dick the country was blessed to have had you in its hour of need and i will 0.60

00:34:55.280 always cherish our time together and the last thing i told him was i love you as my brother in

00:35:03.040 his response brett was simply this don't ever change that and that was the lot those were the last words

00:35:09.840 dick winters ever said to me and i and i and i take great pride in that someone asked me he says 0.91

00:35:19.200 what dick winters you know he he's uh he's not your father uh it was a kind of a father relationship 0.96

00:35:25.840 father-son relationship said no no no it was a paternal relationship and that's what it was dick winters was my 0.98

00:35:33.440 brother wow that's very powerful um let's end on this um how did i mean what do you think you kind

00:35:43.600 of alluded to earlier but what do you think major winners legacy is today what's his lasting legacy

00:35:49.280 besides the things that he did in over there in war but what do you think is his big legacy and uh you

00:35:54.640 know what it wasn't the war it wasn't the war yeah i i asked him i i asked him direct on that i said

00:36:01.200 what is dick winters legacy to future generations and i and i i phrased the question in the third

00:36:07.440 person and his answer simply was this that's easy and i'm going to answer it this way it's the same

00:36:13.840 that i have been saying for many years hang tough that was his favorite saying he goes by that i mean

00:36:21.920 simply do your best every day whether it's school at your job or anywhere else you don't have to have

00:36:31.440 all the answers there's no way you should expect that from yourself just satisfy yourself

00:36:38.240 so at the end of the day you can look at yourself in the mirror and say today i did my best if you do

00:36:45.760 that you are being honest and everything else will be okay all right so that's a great way to

00:36:51.600 end hang tough well colonel keensey thank you so much for your time thank you for writing the books

00:36:56.320 it's been a pleasure well the pleasure is mine brett it's the uh it's just you know i take great uh i

00:37:05.440 take great pride in the association with the uh what we call the uh the greatest generation i call it the

00:37:12.000 the gi generation but the um their their legacy not just dick winners but that whole generation 0.98

00:37:20.560 uh you know speaks to us today in the 21st century i agree thank you colonel keenseed

00:37:26.720 thank you brett take care i guess it was colonel cole kingseed he's the author of the book

00:37:32.560 conversations with dick winners you can find that on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere fantastic

00:37:36.800 book go pick it up also you can find out more about colonel kingseed's work in leadership development 0.77

00:37:42.400 he has a program called battlefield leadership where he and other people take corporations out and

00:37:48.320 leaders out to battlefields in the u.s civil war battlefields also to normandy and to show these

00:37:54.400 leaders in the business field lessons they can take on leadership from military leaders at these

00:37:59.760 very big battles so we're talking normandy we're talking gettysburg antietam alamo all sorts of

00:38:06.320 great stuff go check it out battlefieldleadership.com well that wraps up another edition of the art of

00:38:14.720 manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website

00:38:18.720 at artofmanliness.com and if you enjoy the podcast i'd really appreciate it if you give us a review

00:38:22.640 on itunes or stitcher help us get more feedback on how to improve the show as well as get the word

00:38:26.960 out about the podcast always appreciate your support and until next time this is brett mckay telling you

00:38:31.360 you to stay madly

00:38:33.680 you 0.60

The Art of Manliness - December 15, 2015

#163： Leadership Lessons From Major Dick Winters

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