The Art of Manliness - #170： Level Up Your Life

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so one of my

00:00:20.660 favorite writers online is a guy by the name of steve cam he runs a website called nerdfitness.com

00:00:25.060 and i've had steve on the podcast before and what i love about steve is he he's made fitness

00:00:29.580 accessible and fun to people who otherwise wouldn't be interested in physical fitness or

00:00:34.120 strength training what he does is he takes inspiration from video games pop culture comic

00:00:38.860 books movies and uh creates workouts sometimes based around there's like for example he's got

00:00:43.660 a thing on there called the konami code workout based on the the classic konami code you used

00:00:48.500 at the beginning of contra anyways really fun guy he just came out with a book called level up your

00:00:53.700 life and it's not just about physical fitness it's about how to infuse more adventure more progress

00:00:58.820 in your personal development using video game mechanics using the same thing that video game

00:01:03.980 designers use to keep you playing a video game for hours on end he's found ways to implement those

00:01:10.560 into your personal life he shows you how and level up your life so today on the podcast we talk about

00:01:15.440 how video games can act as a template for our own personal development program a lot of fun

00:01:21.780 so without further ado steve cam and level up your life

00:01:25.100 steve cam welcome back to the art of manliness podcast dude thank you so much for having me i mean

00:01:38.860 we go back geez but five six years yeah forever it's been a lot like i think like 2009 i'd say when

00:01:47.080 we started interacting that was it i shot you an email i was like hey brett i'm a huge fan love your

00:01:51.340 website man and you were so kind and got back to me and i never i never forgot that so um so thank

00:01:56.960 you and thanks for having me back on the podcast as well you're welcome so uh for those of you uh who

00:02:01.160 don't know steve steve is the owner of a fantastic website and uh community called nerd fitness and

00:02:07.320 we've had him on the podcast before to discuss what nerd fitness is and it's basically steve's taking

00:02:12.040 inspiration from video games and awesome movies and helping guys and gals get into shape using that

00:02:18.540 uh but today we're going to talk about a book that steve has just come out with it's called level up

00:02:24.760 your life and uh what i love about this book steve is that you take this idea because i played video

00:02:29.620 games as a kid right sure you know nintendo super nintendo i loved them um and i loved how you took

00:02:37.300 aspects of video games and applied it to people's life so how did you sum up on this idea of living

00:02:44.560 your life like a video game for you know personal self-improvement sure well i very much like yourself

00:02:51.360 i was raised by two loving parents and a nintendo entertainment system uh i spent my childhood playing

00:02:57.740 the legend of zelda and super mario and super metroid and as i grew older i started to play more and more

00:03:04.040 video games they got more and more complex and as they became more complex i was able to use less

00:03:10.240 and less imagination and thus spent far less time outside exploring as if i was a character and more

00:03:15.860 time inside at my computer or on my couch playing these games and eventually it got to a point after

00:03:22.800 college where i realized i was spending a majority of my free time playing video games specifically a

00:03:29.520 game called everquest and everquest 2 which is like world of warcraft but i think even more uh in depth

00:03:35.380 and nerdier so life kind of became the boring parts between when i could get back in and play these video

00:03:42.380 games and eventually i got to the point just like this is not this is not good i'm i'm i'm wasting these

00:03:50.920 valuable years of my life and and all this this time doing playing these games and i know it's not good

00:03:56.320 for me i know it's not healthy and i started to think differently i thought like well if if i can

00:04:02.460 get addicted to these video games there have to be reasons why and i wonder if i can kind of look at

00:04:07.200 those games and then apply those same tactics and almost like behavioral psychology like triggers that

00:04:13.520 games use apply those things to my own personal life and instead of using these games as just an

00:04:19.300 escape instead using them as inspiration and education almost uh to kind of reboot and and

00:04:28.560 change my my life outside of my day job so that was the beginning of it uh i was was sick of living

00:04:35.920 vicariously through a character and uh to quote the most interesting man in the world i wanted to start

00:04:40.180 living vicariously through myself and took those same mechanics and started applying them to my life so

00:04:45.660 that i could you know level up my life yeah yeah um so tell me like the way you did this is you set up

00:04:52.120 a video game that you called the epic quest of awesome yeah i remember when you started this so

00:04:57.660 can you tell us what was what is it because it's still going on right yes the epic yes so you haven't

00:05:03.420 you haven't conquered it yet no and i i don't know if i ever will i and i we can get into that a little

00:05:08.760 bit later but everybody has a bucket list and they just make a list of like 100 and whatever things that

00:05:14.300 they create probably in january 1st or january 2nd they're like my life's going to be different and

00:05:18.760 i'm going to make this bucket list of things i always want to do and it's it'll say something

00:05:22.500 like uh travel and learn a language or exercise more become a better cook and these things are so

00:05:29.120 vague and so you know it's so nebulous that people just create they have more fun creating a list

00:05:34.560 and they never actually cross things off of it so i figured if i was going to start living a life

00:05:41.840 like a video game i had to build my list like a video game and the reason why games work is there

00:05:46.300 is a very specific set of things that need to happen in order for your character in a game to

00:05:50.780 level up it's not just go fight a bunch of guys and eventually you reach level 50 it's like okay at

00:05:56.400 level one you need to kill 10 spiders and then you need to go to this cave and collect 20 of these

00:06:02.760 things there's a very specific path laid out for you uh you know it's actually called like the

00:06:07.480 progress principle but it allows you to consistently see progress in your character

00:06:12.380 and anybody that's ever played a game you know it's like i'll play for five more minutes i'll

00:06:16.840 complete one more quest i'll try you know candy crush for try to get through one more level uh so

00:06:22.880 i built my my bucket list which i didn't think was nerdy enough as a title so i called it my epic

00:06:27.540 quest of awesome i turned the world into my video game world i came up with different names for each of

00:06:33.580 different continents and then i got very specific with things i wanted to accomplish so instead of

00:06:38.800 i wanted to travel more it was i want to find a nemo on the great barrier reef or oh man like i grew

00:06:45.780 up loving james bond so i was like okay i need to live like james bond for a weekend which involves me

00:06:50.500 being in monaco in a tuxedo and gambling or it's learning to play a musical instrument learning a new

00:06:57.220 language uh volunteering every week in a is to a cause that something helps me out with or something

00:07:02.820 that i think is is important to me and helps make the world a better place so i created with

00:07:08.520 the help of my community and created a list of i think it was about 50 things that as somebody up

00:07:13.960 until that point had never traveled very much was very risk averse and shy and felt more content on

00:07:21.500 a couch than i did out in reality created this list of things that were challenging to me mentally

00:07:28.040 physically socially um put me through put me in a different country in a foreign situation

00:07:33.660 or gave me an opportunity to do something that made my life better and since then i've crossed off

00:07:39.860 probably 20 to 25 things on that list so i don't want to say halfway done but crossed off a significant

00:07:45.900 number of them and as i've crossed them off and my life has changed over the five years since starting

00:07:50.860 it my quest has changed and i've added new quests and new quest paths and identified new allies and

00:07:57.060 obstacles to complete and things like that so it's kind of like a slowly evolving video game with a

00:08:02.460 series of quests that have very specific guidelines that give me a a path to follow that makes me

00:08:08.980 better happier stronger um more financially stable and also makes the world a better place awesome so

00:08:16.340 you've added expansion packs yes i've absolutely added expansion packs since the original uh you know

00:08:22.700 beta launch whenever that was years ago all right so let's talk about so you've been able to cross

00:08:26.740 off and do a lot of stuff that's been on your bucket list right so let's you mentioned some

00:08:30.740 of the principles that are involved that that you've taken from video games to help you to help

00:08:36.040 motivate you so you mentioned the progress principle what are the other video game dynamics

00:08:41.460 that um help solve the motivation problem in our own lives that people can use that they can start

00:08:49.420 like actually doing the stuff that they've been saying they've been wanting to do for years

00:08:52.640 sure and and everybody says they say oh man i wish i had the discipline or i wish i had the motivation

00:08:57.640 to exercise more or i've always wanted to learn a language i just don't have the time for it

00:09:02.140 um and i stumbled across a quote that i've just found just really really helpful and essentially the

00:09:08.180 quote is something like you know screw motivation cultivate discipline and everybody is waiting for

00:09:14.600 motivation to get started to get fit they're waiting for the motivation to start eating better

00:09:18.840 they're waiting for the motivation to finally start writing a novel and instead of using motivation

00:09:23.980 instead it's like restructuring your life in a way that your only option truly is to succeed

00:09:30.480 and that comes from from video games so like i said we have this progress principle where there's a very

00:09:36.280 specific set of steps laid out in front of you in order for you to get from where you are to where you

00:09:40.900 want to be and life is not generally laid out that way unless you start structuring your life

00:09:45.960 in that way so it's taking baby steps and identifying if you have a big goal breaking it down into 50

00:09:53.360 smaller steps and finding a way every day to work on those individual goals another thing that i found

00:09:58.520 really important for me personally as somebody that had never traveled was that you know i've found

00:10:04.080 more and more that the games that i love to play were the games that involved exploring new places or

00:10:09.220 seeing what's in the bottom of a cave or over a mountain or uh you know what's what's on the other

00:10:14.760 side of this ocean so a big portion of my game involved this idea of my personal game involved

00:10:19.400 exploration and discovery uh another thing that i found i truly loved in games was the

00:10:24.680 building a building a team of people as well so when you're playing everquest or world of warcraft

00:10:30.820 call of duty any of these great multiplayer games you want to surround yourself with these really elite

00:10:35.540 highly qualified really great video game players because it makes you better it allows you to go

00:10:42.540 further places and do further things so i applied that to my life too like i started recruiting

00:10:46.860 real life allies and finding people that were good in the things that i wasn't and and used them

00:10:53.900 use them i i don't use the word use like i'm using these people but rather it's like i i identify the

00:11:00.360 people that were better at the things that i wasn't and sat down with them and and had them help me

00:11:07.100 kind of structure my life in a way so that again my only option was me for me to make small progress

00:11:12.800 every single day towards learning that new instrument learning that new instrument or setting

00:11:16.840 aside more money to travel or taking the leap and traveling even though i was terrified of doing such

00:11:21.020 a thing awesome all right so we'll get into more detail about the uh building a team but another

00:11:25.520 aspect that's fun about video games and you you talk about this is build creating your avatar

00:11:30.320 right where you go in and like you it's the very first thing you do you get to pick like even like

00:11:36.280 when you're like a 30 year old grown man you're like you get really excited about picking digital

00:11:40.500 clothes which i don't know what that says about me i don't know maybe that's kind of sad nope i do the

00:11:45.060 same and it's very important like you don't want to screw up if you don't want to because you're

00:11:48.400 stuck with it it's over you're stuck with it for the rest of your life or the rest of the video game

00:11:52.440 um so i mean is there a an avatar building aspect of living a video game type life and if so how do

00:12:00.640 you do that absolutely so there's a big portion of the book that revolves around this concept of

00:12:04.800 the hero's journey and it's this concept that every great story in history every comic book every video

00:12:09.780 game follows this story arc of a character that's kind of a fish out of water they uh enter this

00:12:16.400 extraordinary world after there's after a call to action and they identify allies and they fight

00:12:21.580 bad guys and they return home uh a different person him or her returns home a different person

00:12:26.900 and you know changed improved person and it's very cyclical and i noticed that in comic books and

00:12:34.820 movies specifically these days with marvel you know is doing a fantastic job with it

00:12:38.940 every superhero has an alter ego as well or you know more importantly every normal person that has an

00:12:45.200 alter ego as a superhero so um you know for example you know car kent is a mild-mannered reporter

00:12:50.920 indiana jones is a archaeology professor buffy is a high school cheerleader when she's not out slaying

00:12:58.560 vampires so all of these characters have normal daily responsibilities that they must take care of

00:13:04.740 and then after they're done with their job or their schoolwork or whatever they then transform into

00:13:10.280 this superhero version of themselves that can do these wonderful things and you know in this kind of

00:13:16.900 personal development space where this book kind of uh touches upon it's very easy for people to just

00:13:22.280 write things and say like oh just follow your dreams and oh quit your job and travel and in reality for

00:13:27.340 a strong majority of us like that's not an option we have families to take care of we have bills to pay

00:13:33.260 we have jobs that need to you know cars that need fixing whatever it may be so there's a cool

00:13:39.020 opportunity to not allow yourself you not allow your job to define you unless it's something that

00:13:45.600 you truly truly enjoy so throughout the book i share some fun examples of ordinary people that are from

00:13:51.680 the nerd fitness community that have these really fantastic alter egos that allow them to do really

00:13:57.180 exciting things so for example there's a gentleman by the name of thomas who is a single dad and he is a

00:14:02.680 construction worker uh he could by day he's a construction worker and then after in afternoons

00:14:08.720 uh thanks to his love of japanese comics he actually him and his son have bonded over this they found a

00:14:14.220 comic in which there was a single dad with his son and they have to complete missions and quests

00:14:18.800 in this comic so he created a very similar setup for him and his son and now they train in martial arts

00:14:24.220 every afternoon and it's become his alter ego so it's a cool opportunity i think for people to

00:14:30.400 kind of separate these portions of their lives and say like well by day i might be a i might work

00:14:36.740 in a cubicle or i might be a teacher but by night i'm planning my next trip or i'm a dancing uh phenom or

00:14:44.420 i uh you know love to play music in this band or something it's it allows people to take care of their

00:14:50.700 responsibilities but also reframes their life in a way that like yes this is cyclical and you do have to

00:14:56.300 take care of these other things but you can also create these really fantastic alter egos of yourself

00:15:01.760 that allow you to do things that you've always put off and or things that you've maybe been afraid to

00:15:09.520 try like this alter ego kind of allows you to compartmentalize it and and then live out that

00:15:13.760 second half as if you were this character and um and make progress on it that's awesome let's talk

00:15:19.900 more about the progress principle this is the thing i love about video games i think it's why it's so

00:15:24.100 addicting is that like like you said like you don't go and beat you don't go and fight ganon

00:15:30.040 in zelda right at the very beginning you have to start off and you like go and collect chickens or

00:15:34.720 something like that i mean it's like you get your wooden sword you get your wooden sword and shield

00:15:38.640 and uh that's it and then like but through the process of doing these like little micro missions like

00:15:44.020 they're dumb but it's addicting to do them and then but you're getting better and better and

00:15:48.120 you're leveling up your guy so you actually fight the the big boss right sure so let's talk about

00:15:53.840 let's get like let's get like a concrete example how can someone take that idea of the progress

00:15:58.540 principle in video games right and apply them to an a quest in their life right so let's get like

00:16:04.740 really specific here so say if someone's goal is i don't know you come up with a goal you wrote the

00:16:09.280 book give me a goal i i have been living this for seven years yeah i could provide you with a very

00:16:14.360 specific musical example or like a specific uh travel example which one which one would you prefer sir

00:16:20.080 let's go let's go travel travel yeah travel's exciting right yeah absolutely so for somebody

00:16:26.260 that let's say they've they say they've always wanted to travel and yet they've never found

00:16:30.840 themselves outside of north america booking a flight tomorrow to new zealand or thailand

00:16:36.400 probably is not an option they're so terrified that's such a nebulous goal it's so far away in the

00:16:41.980 other side of the planet that they it's something that they'll always say they want to do but they've

00:16:47.160 never been able to do i was very much the same way back when i was 24 25 and at this point i'd

00:16:53.040 already started nerd fitness but i had never traveled and i wanted to travel and i started

00:16:57.660 making my list of things to do but some of them were still so far away the idea of traveling alone

00:17:02.380 scared me i uh traveling around the world specifically alone both of those things like added up to become

00:17:09.240 the ganon of my life like the final boss in in my head and it was like that's that's it's not going to

00:17:14.400 happen so i took a much smaller trip and i traveled with a friend of mine who is very well versed in

00:17:21.580 travel we went to peru which is still a it was a huge step for me but because i was traveling with

00:17:26.820 somebody that knew what they were doing and it was to a country where i spoke the language already so i

00:17:32.540 was relatively fluent in spanish back then it it it's to me it seemed like a level a jump from level

00:17:41.660 you know four to level five instead of a jump from level four to level 50 so making that small step

00:17:47.060 and taking this smaller trip allowing me to travel in a foreign country with a friend it's like okay

00:17:51.960 like i can i can do this this is this wasn't too bad and then that gave me the confidence and the ability

00:17:57.900 and the uh kind of lit the fire under my butt to say like okay now let's take that next trip and that

00:18:04.360 next trip then was to australia and australia was like okay this might be way farther away than peru

00:18:09.920 but i'll speak the language i know i can get around i'll be surrounded by other travelers

00:18:15.280 and then it eventually led me to traveling through china where i didn't speak the language

00:18:19.980 i was traveling alone and uh was able to do these things because i had been able to kind of slowly

00:18:26.420 level up my traveling through those examples so i realized my example might be a little bit more

00:18:30.280 extreme than many others for somebody else that very rarely travels it might be as simple as taking

00:18:35.940 a weekend camping trip instead a weekend camping trip in your backyard instead of convincing

00:18:42.440 yourself to go to uh you know a grand a national park on the other side of the country or if you're

00:18:48.240 unable to fly over to europe maybe taking a trip a day trip up to montreal or somewhere in canada from

00:18:54.180 where you are in the united states is applicable so it's kind of ramping up the difficulty a little bit

00:18:59.460 and taking you slightly outside of your comfort zone instead of so far outside of it that you kind

00:19:06.820 of either shut down or you refuse to do it it's like dipping your toe a little bit further in the

00:19:11.860 water instead of having to mentally convince yourself to cannonball into the deep end gotcha

00:19:15.840 but here's a question though like one of the things with video games that makes them so addicting

00:19:20.340 is the xp right experience points because you can see a meter on your various aspects of your

00:19:26.500 character his strength so addicting his speed his like i think like in fable like there's like a

00:19:31.780 morality one like you're either like a good guy or bad guy you see like this meter going in either

00:19:35.500 direction and you're like i gotta like increase that right so there's you know there's certain

00:19:40.700 tasks that you can do to earn the xp you need to get to the next level is there a way that i mean

00:19:46.680 did you have you come up with like an xp system uh with your epic quest of awesome to keep track of

00:19:52.060 various aspects of your life so you know that okay if i do this if i work out i get this many xp

00:19:57.560 for the day is there something like that going on yeah so when i started i had neither the the

00:20:04.060 resources the talent or the the money or time really to pull off something like this automatically

00:20:11.100 so i just kind of created a very simple system was like okay every time i cross something off of

00:20:16.140 this list i earn 20 experience points every level has 100 experience points so every time i cross

00:20:22.080 five quests off the list my character levels up and that sustained me for many many years and we

00:20:28.860 actually have members of our community that have created like these really elaborate excel spreadsheets

00:20:33.480 of what their questing system would look like some of them were for social skills like they have to go

00:20:38.560 talk to a stranger every morning or they have to go for a walk every day and track their mileage to

00:20:44.820 see if they can walk the distance between the shire and mordor or something like that so

00:20:49.460 fortunately with this book there's actually now a system where if you go to levelupyourlife.com

00:20:55.200 you can create a character aka create your avatar determine what character class you're joining if you

00:21:02.860 like to let's say you you know and because uh i think being active is such an important part of

00:21:08.720 how you're going to level up your life uh depending on what class you're interested in becoming

00:21:13.360 so maybe if you like to strength train you're a warrior if you like to run you're a scout if you

00:21:18.160 like to do martial arts you are a monk or you like to do parkour and gymnastics you're an assassin so

00:21:22.900 we've actually created a system where you can write in your own backstory create your character's alter

00:21:27.480 ego pick your class and then input your quests assign experience point values to them and literally

00:21:35.080 level up your life level level up your character as you are leveling up your life and it gives you a

00:21:41.080 chance to assign those point values to whichever quests you deem are most important so my quests

00:21:46.680 involve things like travel they might involve um music like i'm i'm in the process of learning to play

00:21:51.980 the violin so a lot of my quests from a musical standpoint are around making sure i practice every

00:21:56.920 week um slowly ramping up uh making sure i'm taking lessons or ramping up to a master boss battle which

00:22:03.500 involves me with my violin in a bar in dublin sitting or dublin or somewhere in ireland with my fiddle

00:22:10.520 playing irish tunes with uh with locals so there's a there's a fun thing that you can do like i said

00:22:15.720 it's at level up your life.com um where you can create your character assign those values and actually

00:22:21.060 start leveling up and put uh specific points to those quests and make it far less nebulous and way

00:22:26.520 more concrete awesome all right so there's throughout in a video game there's different points where you do

00:22:31.580 level up right and it's i'm really the old school game like there'd be like a little sequence right you

00:22:36.580 level up and there's like like bright lights and like zelta throws up his sword you know it's like

00:22:41.120 and they get like usually when you level up you get something right there's like a reward sure um

00:22:46.660 but they do it like you make this point in the book that video games reward you

00:22:50.900 uh in a specific way that we typically don't reward ourselves in real life right when we do when we

00:22:58.320 accomplish something so what what can we learn from video games about rewarding ourselves whenever we do

00:23:02.780 level up in life sure uh and i apologize for the sirens i just uh relocated to new york city a few

00:23:09.720 months ago and although i blocked them out in my head and now i'm doing these interviews i can hear

00:23:13.140 them so it's kind of funny um in life a lot of people reward themselves with things that make them

00:23:20.660 either unhealthier or give them a step back so it's the equivalent of oh man i just went for a three

00:23:26.720 mile run i earned this uh i earned this piece of cake or oh i was able to get through all of my

00:23:33.680 work therefore i've earned this uh you know these this night out of heavy drinking or something like

00:23:38.940 that and it's the equivalent of taking two steps forwards and three steps back with video games uh my

00:23:46.320 favorite example is from a game that you and i both love the legend of zelda yes and that's rewarding

00:23:50.780 yourself with things that reward you back so when you defeat uh the first you know the in the first

00:23:56.040 dungeon the first bad guy you earn let's say you know a boomerang or a bow and arrow or something

00:24:01.700 hookshot something that allows you to progress to the next level so it is like a momentum building

00:24:10.020 reward and those rewards slowly increase what your character is capable of they encourage you to want to

00:24:18.080 continue playing even more and you know it it's it's done so perfectly well in games like world

00:24:26.020 of warcraft and and you know a fable and any any any role-playing game or call of duty where once you

00:24:32.300 reach a new level like you unlock a new item for your character but only part of it is functions until

00:24:39.140 you get to the like the next level so not only does it reward you with something that makes your character

00:24:43.740 better but it even gives you a gentle nudge to keep playing and continue further so i applied that to

00:24:49.500 life as well it's like well what if we start rewarding ourselves with things that reward us back

00:24:53.380 and you know in the book it's called like you know finding your treasure chests and like thinking

00:24:57.560 in terms of zelda don't reward yourself with things that make you take step backwards but

00:25:01.980 things that encourage you to step further forward so let's say you're trying to become more fit and you

00:25:08.320 say okay i'm going to exercise three days a week every week for the next month if i do that then i am

00:25:15.240 allowed to buy let's say three new shirts or something two shirts that fit you and one shirt that is

00:25:21.720 slightly smaller than the shirt that you're currently trying to put on you then have rewarded

00:25:27.420 yourself with something that is going to encourage you to continue down this path of living a healthier

00:25:31.060 life and one that nudges you even further to say like oh man i now have a goal in front of me to

00:25:36.560 to work towards uh that's just an example for fitness you could say like if i'm trying to write a

00:25:41.460 book if i write every morning for if i write 500 words every morning for two weeks i will buy myself a

00:25:49.460 ticket to this writer's conference that will then encourage me to write more or if i set aside

00:25:55.280 50 a week to travel um i will then subscribe to this travel something or other that encourage you

00:26:02.100 then to travel more so it's looking at your life in a way like one of my examples and i actually have

00:26:08.280 to go out and buy it now that i've completed it but i had to convince myself to perform on a street

00:26:12.580 corner uh which is scared the crap out of me uh performing in public is terrifying but i loved the movie

00:26:19.020 once and i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna stand in a street corner like glenn hansard and play a guitar

00:26:23.580 and if i do that then i can replace my hundred dollar guitar that i've been playing on for seven

00:26:29.560 years with an upgraded leveled up guitar that will then encourage me to play more music so it can apply

00:26:36.500 to literally any type of quest that you've put together it's trying to think of it in a way instead

00:26:41.360 of rewarding yourself taking a step back rewarding yourself with how does this further improve me or kick me

00:26:46.500 even further down this quest path that i'm on yeah i think that's ingenious because i think that a lot

00:26:49.880 of what i see what a lot of people do when they're they have like this self-improvement kick they're

00:26:53.420 like all right i've got the self-improvement kick i'm gonna get all the stuff that i need

00:26:57.140 to make this possible right at the very beginning so they drop a load of cash right and then they don't

00:27:02.880 do anything they're like you know a week later like okay so i've moved on to the next this is great

00:27:08.680 because like they can actually okay they can start doing something right with the bare minimum

00:27:12.240 and then if they they can that's when they can figure out okay this is something i actually like

00:27:16.260 i mean that's a problem that i've seen a lot of people i've run into too it's like i want to do

00:27:20.680 something but i don't know if i'm actually going to like it right and so there's always that fear

00:27:25.500 that i'm going to invest a lot up front and then i'm going to find out this was a terrible terrible

00:27:29.220 mistake i do not enjoy this at all um i immediately regret this decision yeah i immediately regret this

00:27:34.980 decision but this provides a way like you can test it out right and if you like it then you get reward

00:27:40.500 yourself with something that will allow you to further your uh your your progress in that thing

00:27:45.680 that you found out you enjoyed yeah it's like in in games there's always like a skill tree where you

00:27:50.420 every time you level up you earn like a point and then you can put it where you want it yeah like the

00:27:54.860 other path which you were just describing is the equivalent of getting all of your points and

00:27:58.440 putting them all into one discipline and then playing for another half an hour and realizing like

00:28:02.680 oh i don't actually like playing as this type of character uh i give up i quit but if you can

00:28:09.180 kind of dip your toe in the water and you know like i remember when i started nerd fitness i had

00:28:12.960 actually started two other types of blogs before nerd i started like a music blog and a sports blog

00:28:18.060 and and after two weeks i was like i don't want to write about this stuff yeah luckily i hadn't bought

00:28:22.460 anything you know i set up a free basic website so nerd fitness was a very basic free wordpress

00:28:28.600 template and that survived me for a while until i realized six eight ten months down the road i was like

00:28:33.100 i'm freaking loving this like this is the path i'm supposed to be on luckily i didn't go all in on those

00:28:37.880 other two uh i found the path that worked for me and then i continued to add attribute points to to

00:28:44.040 that path or that that quest line i was working on awesome all right so you mentioned um multiplayer mode

00:28:49.460 uh early on um why is a team important for your epic quest of awesome and what sort of people should

00:28:56.480 you be looking for in your your team yeah well it's some games are fun to be like the lone wolf going

00:29:03.320 in against insurmountable odds and you know it's like the jack bauer or the leroy jenkins

00:29:08.580 yes it's still funny it's every time it's every time you watch it it's funny oh i don't know it's

00:29:18.800 awesome uh yes um so anyways life is a multiplayer game it's fun to think that what we do uh we are

00:29:27.240 working we are by ourselves uh however life is a multiplayer game and who we surround ourselves

00:29:33.580 with and kind of how we build our environment around us are responsible for such a huge portion

00:29:39.740 of us actually reaching and accomplishing the goals that we're trying to pull off you know we

00:29:44.500 are products of our environment and i think as the quote goes or saying goes and i don't necessarily

00:29:48.920 believe it a hundred percent but i found it to be very true is you are the average of the five

00:29:53.160 people you associate the most with and to go back to video games again you know do you want to be

00:30:00.420 the one person in your group of five people who is better than everybody else on your team you are

00:30:06.580 the guy that gets all the kills but your team stinks and you just get to be like you know like oh look

00:30:11.660 i'm the best on my team but your team is terrible or would you rather be in a team of four elite

00:30:16.640 commandos or four amazing characters in world of warcraft that allow you to go fight freaking dragons

00:30:22.760 and explore far off places that you've never been able to see before obviously in games everybody

00:30:28.400 answers with the second one like i'm not stupid but then in life they spend all of their time with

00:30:34.800 people that are negative that have no interest in improving their lives and uh would rather drag you

00:30:42.400 down than pick you back up right they're hanging out with like natalias from golden eye right is that

00:30:47.820 i hated that chick on that game she's just like walk around and then she just like stand in front

00:30:53.640 of you get shot and it's just like you gotta be kidding me yeah it's the yeah it's equivalent of

00:30:58.100 having a like a an npc like a non-player character with you yeah that is really terrible at it uh so i

00:31:04.760 was i was just playing bioshock infinite and you have to help a woman that game as well and she is

00:31:09.260 phenomenal like she helps she like the her ai is awesome and it's like this makes the game better and

00:31:15.240 you're surrounded by people that are improving you on your path it works in games it works in real

00:31:21.080 life too so i try to surround myself with a few different types of people very much like i know

00:31:27.460 if justice league was made of all supermans all it takes is kryptonite and they're screwed but if you

00:31:32.540 have superman and batman and sure even aquaman um and you know wonder woman you have this diverse group

00:31:39.940 of people if you're playing world of warcraft you have a wizard and uh a warrior and a healer you're

00:31:46.880 going to be far more capable as a team so i try to surround myself with people that are better than

00:31:53.780 me people that i am teaching and people that are at the same level as me so whether it's in health

00:31:58.900 and fitness i look to people that have done what i've wanted to do and i can ask them how did you do

00:32:04.400 it and it helps me further down that path and nerd fitness i have a community of people that i am

00:32:09.660 helping that are slightly behind me uh or even some of them are probably ahead of me as well but people

00:32:14.320 that i can help further down because i'm a little bit further ahead in them and we all know that one

00:32:18.980 of the best ways to get better at something is to teach somebody else to do it uh and then the final

00:32:23.640 category i like to throw in there is the wild card so i think in the book i call it like you want

00:32:27.800 your jedi master your fellow jedi and your um your padawan your apprentice and then you have the wild

00:32:34.580 card aka the han solo of the crew the person that takes you outside of your comfort zone that uh does

00:32:42.520 things that probably make you slightly uncomfortable whether it's trap you know like if if you are

00:32:46.620 socially awkward then hanging out with somebody that is you know has kind of that the social game

00:32:54.480 figured out hanging out with them more often and then having them get you into more situations where

00:32:59.680 you have to improve in the way that makes you uncomfortable um the the more well-rounded the

00:33:06.300 more leveled up you're going to be so very much like a game i surround myself with allies that help me

00:33:11.480 improve my quest and in turn i try to make their lives better as well and we've all seen it with

00:33:16.560 mastermind groups or you know groups of friends that uh not just have game night but they have you know

00:33:22.240 book clubs and they all have running clubs or whatever so it's understanding that you're not

00:33:28.060 alone in this journey and if it's just up to you it's very easy to quit and skip a workout sleep in

00:33:34.080 it's very easy to skip a lesson that you've said whatever but if you have groups of people that are

00:33:39.160 counting on you and will hold you accountable you are far more likely to follow through with it

00:33:43.620 and progress further in this game we call life awesome avoid natalias avoid natalias yes okay all right

00:33:51.800 so i'm going to ask you this question which will lead into my next question but what was the very

00:33:56.040 first video game you conquered who very first game i conquered i so the legend of zelda for for regular

00:34:08.180 nintendo came out before well i was i was a young kid when that came out so i don't think i ever beat

00:34:14.060 that one you know i was like four or five maybe when that came out so i was a little before my time

00:34:18.400 i think the game like i first fully beat completely and it was with friends we passed the

00:34:23.640 controller around but i remember beating is the legend of zelda a link to the past that was like

00:34:27.880 my favorite game uh for many many years i think there was one point where my mom made me stop

00:34:32.820 playing it because i heard the zelda music in my head and i couldn't sleep and i made the mistake

00:34:38.660 of telling her this and she was like well that's easy you're not playing zelda for a few weeks oh man

00:34:43.700 uh so yeah the first game i remember was legend of zelda a link to the past that i remember like

00:34:48.180 completing and and having that immense sense of satisfaction yeah yeah that was awesome i love

00:34:53.000 that my first was karate kid on nes oh wow did you ever play that good game is that like was it the

00:35:01.580 one was it karate was there only one karate or did they have karate kid too because the scene i

00:35:05.860 remember is when he has to break the ice yeah so it was like a combination of karate kid one and

00:35:10.920 karate kid two so like you start off the very first level is the uh the tournament at the end

00:35:16.360 of karate kid one and you have to do the crane kick to beat johnny and then if you do that you

00:35:21.240 get to go to like okinawa yeah you get to go to okinawa and then you have to like you know break the

00:35:26.120 ice and all that dude you get to catch flies with the chopsticks but i remember i was like so excited

00:35:32.280 when i beat it because it had like the i mean you don't remember the old school days when you

00:35:35.420 conquered a game there'd be like just like this like it was like a mr miyagi head and there's just like

00:35:39.380 text that scrolled down like told you like here's what happened and like this is awesome you just

00:35:45.960 like glory in it um oh so good glory love which was a great song from karate kid too that's right

00:35:51.320 nominated for an uh academy award and which is like best soundtrack it's awesome i freaking love

00:35:56.280 chicago yeah peterson tear is the man i don't like they're so underrated i think uh people need to go

00:36:02.260 check out chicago and peterson tear like it's it's my jam like you just feel pumped up when you listen

00:36:07.820 that stuff not gonna not gonna be afraid to admit it good all right so let this reason my question

00:36:12.800 so what's the end goal with this sort of video game life that's video game like is is our life

00:36:18.880 conquerable is there are we gonna get the mr miyagi head at the end

00:36:21.700 or is this something different it's a little different so i think i like to come up with kind of

00:36:30.020 games that they may or may not have it and i think the game of life itself there is literally

00:36:35.580 one end and it's our game over screen that we have no control over to an extent we do but you

00:36:40.800 know it's tomorrow's no guarantee so we have to do the best that we can to enjoy today and make

00:36:45.600 progress so instead of having a game over instead of having an end game i think of them as each quest

00:36:52.620 line is kind of like its own game and just like any other hero's journey or any other video game or

00:36:59.400 movie or book there are always plot twists and for you brett i'm sure your life changed pretty

00:37:04.560 drastically when you had your first kid and the your game changed at that point and before that

00:37:10.500 i might have been heading down a specific path and then oh plot twist um you know you and kate are

00:37:15.720 pregnant and there's uh you know you have a baby on the way it's like okay now my new game might be

00:37:20.280 becoming the best the best father i can um for myself i had traveled very extensively for a year and

00:37:27.340 a half and crossed off 15 to 20 things on my list but i wanted to have a home again because i was

00:37:33.200 living out of a backpack so my game shifted where instead of traveling permanently i then had a home

00:37:39.440 and i was booking smaller trips and i was my my focus shifted from visit more places to get stronger

00:37:47.920 and become more musically talented uh or improve my lack of talent i guess is a better way to put that

00:37:55.060 so the game the full game of life uh i think there's like i said we have one quarter that goes

00:38:02.880 in the machine and we do our playthrough to the best that we can and and then there's the game over in

00:38:08.580 between you putting the quarter in and that game over screen there's so many different paths that you

00:38:12.720 can choose to take and depending on aspects of your life or life moments or memories or changes in

00:38:19.140 passion or uh you know uh specific things that that alter your core through your your course your

00:38:25.420 hero's journey um the game changes and you're i think that's okay for people like you don't how i

00:38:33.120 felt six years ago and the quest that i built and the vision i saw for myself at level 50 which is what

00:38:39.000 i kind of see as like fully leveled up is very different now than it was six years ago and i think that's

00:38:44.980 okay awesome so there's expansion packs right yes you can always add more provided you're at least

00:38:51.600 working on them in some way it's very easy for people just to add add add add and then never make

00:38:56.280 any progress you got you got to beat the expansion pack first before you can go on to the next one

00:39:00.320 right and then also like being like there's side missions right like once you beat the main like on

00:39:06.320 grand theft auto or like my i don't really like grand theft auto because i always feel kind of

00:39:09.620 skeezy playing it um but the one that i like is red dead revolver you know awesome game it's awesome

00:39:14.780 it's like it's about a guy who's going to avenge his father's death it's freaking awesome anyways

00:39:19.380 like once you do that you can like you're done but there's like other stuff you can do within the

00:39:23.440 world of red dead revolver right yeah and i've seen it so many times with fitness on nerd fitness and

00:39:30.220 it's probably my favorite thing to hear but everybody starts with a quest to lose weight they're

00:39:34.780 like i just need to lose 50 pounds i want to feel better about myself so they follow the framework laid

00:39:41.320 out in in this book and nerd fitness and it's they build a team of people to help them succeed

00:39:47.200 they structure their lives in a way where they're making consistent progress they have rewards set

00:39:52.320 up to push them forward and accountability set up to keep them on target but as they are completing

00:39:58.960 the game as they are reaching this 50 pounds lost aka what they think their end goal is the closer

00:40:04.680 they get to it the more they realize how much they actually enjoy exercising and like i've heard this

00:40:09.540 from almost every single one of our big big success stories people that have lost 100 pounds 150

00:40:16.040 pounds whatever they say like i never thought i would say this but i actually enjoy exercising now

00:40:22.560 and their goal or their game has shifted from a weight-based goal aka i want to lose 50 pounds to a

00:40:30.280 performance-based goal i want to run a marathon or i want to um you know i wonder how long i can hold a

00:40:38.260 handstand and i wonder you know if i can deadlift 500 pounds or something along these lines so when

00:40:45.600 shifting from a number goal to a performance goal it's the equivalent of slaying a dragon and then

00:40:52.280 instead of saying like oh look i slayed a dragon i'm done and going back and eating terribly and sitting

00:40:57.220 around in the pub telling everybody how great you are because you slayed that dragon you get your ass out

00:41:01.520 there and you go find another dragon to slay one that's a little bit bigger that lives in a larger

00:41:06.080 mountain that's even further away than the one that you just kind of took care of awesome well

00:41:10.480 hey steve this has been a fascinating conversation where can people learn more about the book and your

00:41:14.280 level up system absolutely the book is available now across uh all over the internet it's uh it's

00:41:19.540 available at levelupyourlife.com or if you go to nerdfitness.com you know there's it's linked to

00:41:24.600 there but uh levelupyourlife.com is where you can create your character and get started with building

00:41:29.820 your own epic quest of awesome and recruit allies and and get started down this path to a leveled up

00:41:35.100 life awesome steve cam thank you so much for your time it's been a pleasure sir brett the pleasure is

00:41:39.800 all mine sir my guest today was steve cam he is the author of level up your life and that's available

00:41:44.860 on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere and like steve said you can go to levelupyourlife.com and

00:41:50.360 create your own avatar or character and start going on your own video game slash life adventure go pick

00:41:57.060 it up it's a really fun book and you can also read more about steve's work at nerdfitness.com

00:42:01.500 well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice

00:42:09.100 make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com and if you enjoy

00:42:12.920 this podcast i'd really appreciate it if you give us a review on itunes or stitcher help get

00:42:17.000 the word out about the show really appreciate your support and until next time this is brett

00:42:20.560 mckay telling you to stay manly

00:42:22.540 you

The Art of Manliness - July 31, 2025

#170： Level Up Your Life

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