#172： Scottish Highland Games & Training for Performance
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Summary
On this episode of the Art of Manliness podcast, I sit down with world champion Highland Games thrower Matt Vincent to discuss the history of the Highland Games, how you can get started in throwing a caber while wearing a kilt, and the training you need to do to get ready and prepared for a Highland Games competition.
Transcript
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brad mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so you've probably
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seen on tv or on the internet the highland games probably didn't know they were called the highland
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games but you've seen the events in the highland games it's the guys who are wearing the kilts
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they're throwing the giant telephone pole looking thing they're throwing hammers over their head
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they're throwing big burlap sags over the head with a pitchfork just a really interesting strength
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sport out there it's one of those fringe strength sports along the lines of strongman or power
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lifting it's really fascinating i've always wanted to get involved with it somehow get in touch with
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my scottish ancestry anyways today on the podcast i have a world champion highland games competitor
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his name is matt vincent and today on the podcast we discuss the highland games what's involved with
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them how you can get started if you want to try throwing a caber while wearing a kilt the type
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of training you need to do strength training to get ready and prepared for highland games competition
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and we also talk about his programming that he's created called the hate and we'll talk about why
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he calls it the hate as well in a bit really fascinating podcast so without further ado matt vincent
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all right matt vincent welcome to the show yeah man stoked to be here really really been looking
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forward to this one right i've been following you on instagram uh you have an entertaining instagram
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feed but also some of your work in the other other places online so you are a highland games
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competitor so not a champion and before we get into talking about what highland games are because i
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think very few people are they've probably seen it they don't know it's called highland games
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yeah yeah that's kind of pretty standard right right let's talk about your athletic background
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first how did you get to be a guy who throws around cabers uh around the world so like anybody
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you know through high school and you know growing up basically playing everything i could
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and uh to some i guess extent of uh being decent at a lot of things but not very good at any of them
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um so you know through high school i ended up playing football and doing track and having some
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more success actually as a shop putter and so that's what brought me to college on a track and field
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scholarship to uh lsu down here in louisiana and then post college um i gave a run at owning a bicycle
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shop and uh that didn't work so well and so after doing that got into a normal job in the oil and gas
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industry and started getting back in the gym and it seemed like the the thing i wanted to do was a
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was strength training still so i did a couple years of strongman and a couple years of powerlifting and
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uh got a chance to go compete in a highland games uh you know as a thrower like in college you you
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kind of always know about the highland games you know it exists and it's one of those things it's
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like well how do you ever do that kind of same as strongman is but now with youtube and the internet
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it's a hell of a lot more accessible and so went and did a game and had a great time and then
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got a hold of some people and located some more games and traveled and did that for i guess about
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a year and a half as an amateur and then uh got invited because i won an amateur world championship
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to the professional world championship in 2011 and i took second place at that and i've been
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doing it ever since fantastic so i mean how did that first invite happen it was just like hey you
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want to go do this i mean like it's so it's such a weird thing to like get into i think so how did it
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come up where someone's like let's you should do this so like any of the the fringe uh strength sports
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you know strongman powerlifting there's there's competitions all over i mean there's a highland game
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usually every weekend and they have a they have an amateur class and they have a novice class and novice
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i mean basically just like anything else you just sign up and go and uh you know somebody who i was
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strength training with at the time said you know they have a highland game coming up about an hour
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from here and i was like oh no kidding we should uh we should look into going to do that and uh it was
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we ordered kilts and went and had a good time all right so let's talk about the specific highland games
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because i think people are familiar with caber tossing so can you give us like a brief background of
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what the highland games are and like the specific events of them sure sure so we we do there's eight
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traditional events and in the states we do nine um so you have two two stones that you throw exactly
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like the shot put one of them is a heavy stone and one of them is a light stone and uh the heavy stone
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is anywhere from about 22 to 28 pounds and you throw it just standing just like a shot put throw but you
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know you don't uh you don't get an approach um and it's just measured for distance uh then we also
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throw uh the lighter stone which is 16 pounds and it can go up to 18 i mean they're stones so they're
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not perfect um and you get a full approach like that so it's exactly the same rules as throwing the
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olympic shot put and then we throw two weights for distance and these are a little different and don't
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look like anything else so they're basically a steel block on the end of a chain with a ring
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and you throw it with one arm and uh they weigh 28 pounds for the light one and uh 56 pounds for
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the heavy and you spin twice and throw it as far as you can uh then we have another distance of it
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where we throw the hammer which is a steel or lead ball on the end of a stick and um usually like a
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rattan handle handle or something like that and it's 22 and 16 pounds again and you kind of anchor
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yourself into the ground with some with boots that have a like a blade on the front of it
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so uh when this thing is spinning around your head it doesn't pick you up and throw you on the ground
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right um we do the caper of course is the one everyone knows it looks like the telephone pole
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we also throw a 56 pound weight up over a bar for height with one hand and then we um the one that
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kind of rotates in and out is called the sheaf and it is a 22 pound bag or a 20 pound bag we throw with
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a pitchfork for height all right so yeah so these these so you talk about you wear kilts when you do
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this so these came from scotland do you have any idea like how the scots invented this stuff like why
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did they come up with like i'm gonna throw a giant pole or i'm gonna take a a big giant burlap bag and
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like hoist it over with a pitchfork what's going on there do you have any idea about the history of
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highland games yeah so the history of the highland games the way it kind of really started was you
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know it was a test between the clans i'm sure which developed just from you know farmers basically
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coming up with you know being bored and not having nearly the distractions that we do now uh you know
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i bet i can throw this rock further than you and so this continued to grow as men team uh tend to find
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challenges and things like that to do against each other but they're similar either you know
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type of battle things like throwing rocks to defend yourself or you know the weights actually
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were um the old 56 and old 28 you know these are all part stone weights right so stone is 14 pounds
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so two stones is 28 and then uh like four stones is 56 and so these were used as counterbalances at the
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feed market okay and so as things moved on i'm sure someone took one and said i think i can throw it
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further than you or higher but that's what the original ones were actually looked like and uh
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they were just counterbalances for the side the other side of the scale and then the caber the caber
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has a lot of i think it was used for this but it was uh you know crossing a stream uh you would you know
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flip it so that it would land one end and then fall the other side directly across the stream and you
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could get across i still don't see how that would be the most efficient way to do it well it's one
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way to do it but it's definitely one way to do it um so that's that's the gist of it and then you
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know the hammer was you know was actually like a sledgehammer and then i'm sure it developed into
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i think i can do this better than you yeah all right so boredom probably was the the impetus
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and you know drunk guys i'm sure talking a little noise to each other decided to put it to the test
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right so is there an event that you specialize in particularly i guess i'm guessing the the
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throwing ones the yeah um for me i i really like throwing the stones that's probably been the event
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that i've been the best at over the last couple years as well as uh the weights for distance
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those have been those have been i guess my most consistently top ranking events right is there
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one in particular like that's like really hard to do you're just like man that sucks i'm really
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bad at the hammers you know and look it's relatively bad right i've been chasing the
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same guy in the number one or number two spot in the world for the last couple years is that mcdaniel
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and he yeah that's mckim yeah yeah daniel mckim daniel yeah he's very good at the hammers he's got
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world records in both of them and so you know i'll throw well and throw a pr and then lose by 15 feet
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so i've really spent a lot of time over the last couple years trying to improve that event and um
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it's been a relatively futile attempt right i haven't got much better at it but you gotta keep
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you gotta keep striving what are you gonna do just quit that doesn't make any sense and i think like
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uh the mountain from game of thrones does this sort of stuff as well you've competed against him
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yeah he um he's done a little bit of stuff right so he's done the weight over bar which is
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of all the ones with any you know like uh i guess if you're just going to be a brute and come out and
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give it a go that one's your best bet of being able to figure out not to mention that guy throws
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kegs for height so right he has a relative of the move plus people in iceland seem to know how to move
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heavy stuff and so he's done a couple of those with us and i think actually has the world record
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for standing weight over bar not technically as a highland game athlete weight over bar but has
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thrown it higher than anyone else in history gotcha so i'm curious to like how i've always been like
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i've wanted like i this is something i want to do like i'm like i want to try that out how does someone
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want to like if they want to get started with highland games how do they do it like what's what are
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your what's your advice for someone who wants to start throwing cabers and hammers around
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my my actual advice is to find a local game next to you and go in and compete as a novice
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even if you're going to be super friendly even if you've never touched any of it okay the people
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that's what novice is for right you you're you're brand new to this and i always recommend that to
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people i mean if you're look if you're moderately fit and you're working out and you're athletic yeah
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just go go give it a shot and see if it's any fun before you start investing a bunch of time and
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energy into you know accumulating you know accumulating some implements and starting to
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think about training for it go see if you actually like it first or if you like the environment
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and then from there you'll actually meet some people and perhaps find a training group
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it's really it's really the easiest way to go about it uh there are some training groups and uh you
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know heavy events people or groups on facebook that are pretty easy to find just with a group search
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i think and uh that gives a lot of direction too gotcha so what is your uh so you've written a
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lot of books you've written some books on strength training um you've got content online about strength
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training i'm curious what does your strength training program look when you are training when
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you're also competing in highland games like has it has it does it change any from like when you were
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like a college athlete or is it pretty much the same it's it's very very similar to when i was a
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collegiate athlete um you know and by what i mean by the same of that is i'm really not that concerned
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with say my gym prs or maxes or my power lifting total like i'm a performance athlete and so
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since you know the amount of weight on the bar doesn't do me a lot of good in a contest because
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we're not lifting bars i'm trying not to focus so much on it other than just using as an indicator
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of progress in the gym so i can't just get as absolutely strong as possible i can do that but
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i'm also going to gain a bunch of weight and lose some mobility and be slower but i need to be quick
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and i need to be flexible and i need to be strong and so i've i've kept that focus and then i've taken
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some of the stuff i learned over the years of power lifting and strongman that were really effective
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for getting stronger and i added those to the program that i didn't do in college like we really
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didn't deadlift much in college we did a lot of olympic lifts but dead lifting really wasn't
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uh shoot i probably i don't think i honestly deadlifted till after college and i think it's
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a very valuable lift i think i think you'd be crazy not to have it in your program right so i mean you
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said like you need quickness for the highland games and what what i mean it seems like it's what
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what aspect is quickness or athleticism come into the like throwing some a sheaf over your your head
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so the highland games is really all about application of force and power
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and what i mean by that is you know accelerating mass so you look at someone who say has a you
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know a 700 pound squat and if that person's going to squat and kind of grind it out and take two
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seconds on the way up right like a big hydraulic slow strong lift that doesn't translate very well
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to me throwing something that weighs 16 pounds true i need to be able to accelerate that object
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in as short amount of time as possible so i need horsepower and then i've also got to be able
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to be quick enough to use the momentum of me moving my body and spinning or rotating
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so that i can apply force for a longer time whereas like you know if you're going to throw a punch you're
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not just going to have your shoulder square to the object you're looking at and then throw a six
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inch jab you want to turn your you know turn your shoulders away from it and push the hips first and
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then really throw a haymaker that makes sense you need that that speed to apply that force instead
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of just you know a 600 pound bench press right right so i mean so how do you balance with your
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programming um how do you balance athleticism with getting big and strong because i'm sure getting
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big and strong helps in throwing more weight um so but there's there's a fine line or you said like
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you can just focus on getting big and stronger and get fat um but that could be a detriment or just
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bigger just bigger right or mass a lot of times always you know can can lead to some impingement
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movement and things like that that are going to keep you from hitting positions that would be better
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so how do you know what i do okay i keep um i i keep conditioning in my program i like being able
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to move um i also like uh doing box jumps and things like that where i'm going to do some
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mobility i'm going to do some sprints i'm going to do some bounding uh and make sure that i'm still
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moving my body i think it's really important as an athlete that you knowing how to manipulate your
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own body weight is kind of key you know how to how to adjust yourself in space and move quickly
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and so i do speed work as well as the olympic lifts to keep moving weight violently and fast in one of
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your books you talk about your programming it's a five-week program that can be used by you know any
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athlete really and it's called um the hate the hate but it's you spell it you spell it h with roman
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numeral eight and i'll be honest like i finally figured this out not too long ago for the longest
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time i was because you have a brand right it's called the hate as right i always thought it was
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like heavy i was like oh he's like spelling heavy different like with the then i was like oh no hate
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okay that makes sense so this started my brother and i actually kind of talking about it it was always
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something we looked at athletes right and athletes that had that different drive than than your normal
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people those guys that were willing to get up and do the work and push themselves harder and
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i mean look man if i if i was really happy i would just lay on the couch full of video games
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right just be content and that would be great but for some reason my brain just isn't going to allow it
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so i'm going to get up and do what i can to make myself better go train by myself in the garage or
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you know get up when it's cold and do those necessary things they're not always the most fun
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but it's you know for the greater good and so my program the hate was really basically is a condensed
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version of my program the long program uh with strength lab or training lab that here's five weeks
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quick rotation and just allows you to you don't want to think about a whole lot or reprogram every
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five weeks it was my answer to my version of five three one basically okay and you know this is going
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to build strength and power you're still going to get the olympic lifts you're still going to do some
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speed work and you're still going to work on max strength so how does it differ from like say five three
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one five three one doesn't focus on any olympic lifts and with a three-day program uh my hate day three
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is olympic lifting you're going to snatch and clean gotcha and it seems like uh your your approach is
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also like sub maximal load yes which is very five three one right that's that's one of jim's big
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principles jim's been a huge influence and been a really good friend for the last five or six years
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and you know i had a weird spot right in the program because i knew there were a lot of similarities
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to it and at the end of the day i mean it ain't broke i'm not going to rewrite it just so that
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i can say this is original right right so can you for our listeners who aren't familiar with it like
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what is sub maximal loading and like what's the benefit of doing it for me and what i believe
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sub maximal training is right is you're gonna use less weight and do more reps and not quite like a
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bodybuilding style i'm not talking about doing sets of 15 or 20 to really get the pump you know i'm
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doing stuff at you know 75 85 and 95 percent weight i'm very very rarely if ever going to take
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anything to a max single i really save that for the platform i may as well if i'm going to risk
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getting hurt with a maximal weight i may as well do it and earn you know do it on the platform while
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i'm competing so it takes a lot of ego out of training especially me training alone in my garage i'm
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not missing any lifts in training and not missing lifts for me is the accumulation of work that's going
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to make you stronger i feel like singles and heavy singles are more of a test than they are an actual
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strength building exercise and so the sub maximal aspect of that is what i do to build my program
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is i take you know my uh my true max and then i multiply that by 90 and i treat that as my training
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max and then i build all of my program off of that number and what that allows me to do is like i said
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never miss a rep during training because man life gets in the way i'm you know i'm not
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19 years old or 20 and i'm not in college to where i'm just uh you know eating and sleeping and going
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to track practice i've got other things and responsibilities in my life and not every day
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is great and so what this does is just allows me to kind of auto regulate a little bit more and say
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i can get the work done and if things feel great on the last set i can push a rep max
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but the key is that accumulation of work with the lighter weight instead of you know putting
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something on the bar and saying oh shit you know i think i can go for a pr and add you know add 15
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pounds and risk you know the injury which you know a max a max weight is going to be a higher risk of
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injury for an athlete than than a lower weight right and so doing that is going to allow you to
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you know be a little bit smarter in training and think which one actually makes more progress
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should i go for that pr so that i can be excited that i put more weight on the bar or do i hit what
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i was able to hit for three now for five right right um so who's the uh the hate for is like for anyone
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like like even if someone doesn't compete myself yeah um the hate you know it's it's kind of a
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personal mantra right so it's a little bit of self-motivation through self-loathing and it's
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just not listening to your own uh your own brain trying to get in your own way of you know i'm tired or
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you know i i you know i i need to rest or i deserve this or this and that and the truth is you don't
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you know what you should do is work and do your job every day and if that thing you care about is
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training get in and do the work and some days aren't going to be great and some days are
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but you've got to do all of it to make the good days good right right so i mean this program for me
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is any athlete looking to perform better okay you're doing a bodybuilding routine this probably isn't for
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you all right so if you're concerned about six-pack abs and being chiseled no clue what that's about
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and what that's about anyway all that happens in the kitchen anyway it has nothing to do with
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your gym time right exactly that it's that's something i've learned uh i think it takes a
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long time for you to like finally learn that it's like okay just diet well yeah i wish that i could
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just say like man if i just get on the treadmill a little bit more right these exercises i'll get
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these abs i mean it's amazing to me that the logic of you know if i want my biceps bigger right
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i can do you know say curls and do a bunch of sets of curls say do a couple you know do a hundred reps
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a day of curls of some sort and my biceps will get bigger however people believe that if they want
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their stomachs to shrink they should do the exact same thing with their abs muscles don't react that
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they grow right and so i mean what i mean that's kind of like that's an interesting question with
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your uh the the competition that you do what how does your diet look so i'm sure it's not looking
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like a bodybuilder's diet i'm sure you're eating for performance correct and you know and it's look
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vanity plays itself into my head plenty and i don't want to be totally gross but at the same time i know
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that i compete my best when i'm between 270 and 280 pounds and so whatever i can do to stay in that
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once i get below that i really start feeling weak and i you know your leverages all change on the
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events you know how far i have to lean or how hard i have to sprint stuff like that so in that window
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is really where i perform my best and so i keep my diet to keep me in that range i just keep trying
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to lose fat but stay there gotcha and what i've found that works you know the best for me and you
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know not just works the best for me but you know it's conducive to the life i live right i do travel
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quite a bit and i like enjoying myself man i mean abs are cool and all but i wouldn't skip some
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delicious dinners with my wife to have abs you know so i follow a real like more keto approach
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which is uh you know high fat high protein and very limited carbs i pretty much will just save my
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carbs for bourbon right whatever the time's right there you go um i have a question about
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the the mental aspect of your sport and your training uh it's like how do you deal with that
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i mean what is there i mean how do you overcome plateaus how do you deal with setbacks i mean
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what is your mental game like so mine's mine's a little different um i mean injuries are going
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to happen right i mean that just kind of comes with the territory and look father time's undefeated
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no one's going to make it out of this thing all the way without scars if you did you probably lived
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a really boring life and injury is going to happen and setbacks happen it's you know you just keep
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trying to figure out whether you know you take one step back to make some steps forward or you take
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a side step you know if my knee's bothering me maybe i box squat for the next two weeks you know a
00:24:32.920
little high i mean i don't have anybody in my gym tone you know giving me white lights and i don't
00:24:37.480
have the ego anymore to say like well i've got to bury all these squats what i want to do is perform
00:24:41.960
better and i perform my best when i'm not hurt right i can still fatigue my legs and still get plenty
00:24:48.460
of work in without having to you know squat all the way to the bottom gotcha and what completely
00:24:56.920
below parallel right and like what keeps you going right like so you're saying you're chasing daniel
00:25:03.140
right in the competition what keeps you like is it like trying to beat yourself or do you like you
00:25:06.920
really want to beat him one day i mean what how do you deal with that aspect it's trying to be the
00:25:11.460
best i can be that's really my concern is just it's self-optimization it's just i want to be
00:25:16.320
i want to give it the most i've got while my body is still willing to give it a go i don't ever want
00:25:22.460
to look back and question of like maybe i should have done this or what if i had trained harder or what
00:25:26.540
if i would have done this i i know i'm i'm doing everything i can to give it a go and the cards
00:25:32.480
are going to fall where they fall i mean dan and i are different athletes and i beat him some and he's
00:25:38.280
beat me some right and none of those things how far he throws is completely has nothing to do with
00:25:45.840
how far i throw i mean that's that's his goals and his things now some days the cards are i'm going
00:25:50.940
to throw really well and the cards fall in my favor but i've also had days where i've thrown very
00:25:54.900
very well and been proud of it and just didn't have enough to beat him and yeah i'm not interested
00:26:01.580
in him doing poorly so that i succeed right right yeah it seems like there's a lot of camaraderie in
00:26:07.060
that that sport and the highland games of course and that's man that's all of the fringe strength
00:26:12.600
boards i've found um you know you're strong man power lifting and especially toward the top end right
00:26:18.260
your your professional classes in those those sports have it a lot more there's i guess
00:26:24.220
we've all been been part of sports at this point um that we understand that no one really cares
00:26:30.980
yeah and that eliminates a lot of the ego like i'm not going to be famous i'm not gonna
00:26:35.680
you know i don't need to go have a discussion with you know reese hoffa for example you know
00:26:42.020
olympic shot putter about how we're both world champions right he he is yeah i do this other
00:26:50.780
thing i'm very good at it and i love the highland games but keep in perspective what we're doing i
00:26:55.980
throw rocks in a field and so that that helps me keep that and the camaraderie is great because
00:27:03.840
there's probably only 20 of us that are at the top end in the world and so every time i go to a
00:27:11.520
contest you know 17 or 18 times a year it's some 12 of us out of that 20 guys and so you see the
00:27:18.660
same guys every weekend and i think you know it's not we're not really head to head so everyone's just
00:27:25.640
trying to go out and do their best and i mean enjoy the fact that i mean we get paid to travel and
00:27:30.920
there's prize money and and all this for this sport that not that many people know about it's fantastic
00:27:37.980
i've loved every minute that i've spent doing highland games so you mentioned you know time
00:27:43.200
time is is fleeting for you i mean are you in your 30s i'm guessing yeah i'm 30 32 be 33 in april
00:27:50.480
all right that'll be quick yeah yeah we're the same age then um so i mean how how much longer you
00:27:55.640
think you'll be doing this and what do you plan on doing after you have to hang up your your caber
00:28:01.300
tossing shoes after hang up the kilt huh right hang up the kilt you know i i don't know um i think
00:28:09.460
when i'm done doing this that strength will become less of a uh focus for me and i mean look i'm 280
00:28:17.200
pounds i'm not interested in being a 280 pound 45 year old that's that's a really bad idea much less
00:28:25.460
it's a much worse idea to be 280 pound 50 year old they tend to die right so i'll probably work on
00:28:32.420
losing weight and doing some body composition stuff and i'll find something else i'm into whether i get
00:28:36.640
into some crossfit or i get more into cycling like i have been yeah i'm definitely not an endurance
00:28:42.880
athlete but i like spending time on the bike and so i'll find something else to do to you know care
00:28:48.600
more about diet and try to figure out that when i don't have to worry about being strong right do you
00:28:53.100
think you'd be can like stay connected to the sport in some way like as a coach or a mentor i mean what
00:28:57.400
you know i don't know that's never been the goal but i mean as long as i can still be valuable
00:29:06.180
and help people out i've really enjoyed the online coaching and stuff i've done the little bit that
00:29:11.900
i've done of it and as far as how long do i can i see myself doing this i mean i've seen guys
00:29:18.860
be competitive on the world scale and you know almost 40 i'm gonna stop when it's not fun anymore
00:29:24.040
and right now it's still a lot of fun i still my body hurts my body's gonna i think quit before i'm
00:29:30.920
willing to quit and that's just from i've just abused my body for the last two decades and not
00:29:38.280
been that nice to it it's only probably been the last three years i've understood recovery
00:29:41.800
and properly doing things like that you know um but when it's no longer fun whenever i'm not willing
00:29:50.160
to do what it takes to train for it i mean i'm not gonna be a guy that just phones it in i just i
00:29:58.040
can't see myself becoming a guy that's finishing 10th in the world and still still grinding at that
00:30:09.480
i'll probably very happily hang up my shoes and be ready to watch whoever's next
00:30:15.900
gotcha so matt this has been a great conversation a lot of insights about a sport that i knew little
00:30:21.840
about um where can you find find out more about you and your work out there um best place to find me
00:30:29.240
would be um matt vincent.net or uh the hate.com and that's spelled with the h-v-i-i-i
00:30:36.080
uh youtube i've got a lot of information going up and that channel is matthew vincent
00:30:41.540
um those are really your best places uh instagram is i hate matt vincent spelled the same way as
00:30:47.860
before and i try to i try to vlog and document and kind of do everything i'm doing you know i've been
00:30:53.100
very fortunate to be part of a sport that allows me to travel around the world and do some pretty
00:30:57.440
awesome stuff and try to share as much of that and that the connections i've made over the last
00:31:02.740
couple years in strength training to some other really awesome people awesome well matt vincent
00:31:07.480
thanks so much for your time it's been a pleasure yeah it's great man had a great time my guest today
00:31:12.760
was matt vincent he is a highland games champion and competitor and you can find more information
00:31:18.040
about his work at matt vincent.net just search for him on instagram he's got a really entertaining
00:31:22.620
instagram feed as well as find him on youtube well that wraps up another addition to the art of
00:31:30.680
manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website
00:31:34.540
at theartofmanliness.com and if you enjoy this podcast i'd really appreciate it if you give us
00:31:38.580
a review on itunes or stitcher and really help us out in our rankings there and as always i
00:31:42.940
appreciate your support and until next time this is brett mckay telling you to stay manly