The Art of Manliness - #174： The Thinking Man's Guide to Style

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so since i started

00:00:19.520 the site back in 2008 i've read a lot of books on men's style and one of the most fun engaging

00:00:26.040 witty books i've read on the topic as well as just crammed with useful practical information is a

00:00:31.300 book that was published a few years ago called men's style the thinking man's guide to dress

00:00:36.240 it's by a canadian columnist and novelist by the name of russell smith and i wanted to get on the

00:00:42.020 podcast to discuss all things men's style so today on the show russell and i discuss sort of uh the

00:00:47.860 all aspects of style sort of the high level philosophical approach to men's style why you

00:00:51.980 should care about dressing uh the history of men's style why throughout history most of human

00:00:57.400 history the most manliness of men were uh concerned about how they appeared and how they looked and

00:01:03.860 it's only recently where this whole aesthetic of like i just don't care came to approach and we

00:01:07.920 argue like why you should care even today uh we discuss the future of men's style but we also get

00:01:12.840 brass tacks and talk about the um so the practical aspects of style the type of suit you should buy if

00:01:18.860 you've never bought a suit and you're in the market for one why you should invest in a good pair of

00:01:22.700 shoes shirts things like that really great information that you can take away and uh apply

00:01:28.060 right away but also some things for you to think about as well so without further ado russell smith and

00:01:33.440 men's style russell smith welcome to the show thanks for having me so uh you wrote a book came out

00:01:47.420 about three years ago called men's style the thinking man's guide to dress and it's really it's

00:01:52.680 one of the most information packed book on style but also the most well-written book it's just a lot

00:01:59.240 of fun to read but i'm curious because you you highlight this in your book that growing up you

00:02:03.700 were part of the the punk rock scene so i imagine there was a lot of studded denim jackets with sleeves

00:02:09.800 ripped off and you know all you know rent you know rancid patches you know sewn on and whatnot

00:02:15.200 and then now you're a writer so you probably work from home you don't have to get dressed up

00:02:20.160 technically could wear in your underwear so i'm curious how did this interest in high men's style

00:02:25.920 and fashion uh get started well first of all about punk rock i mean that was primarily a fashion

00:02:31.780 interest i mean i think punk rock was primarily an aesthetic movement it was really a a movement about

00:02:38.140 a new aesthetic a movement in fashion i don't really think it was a particularly not in the uk which

00:02:43.700 was the movement that influenced me the most uh not really a political or ideological movement um

00:02:50.520 so i came to punk rock through fashion uh really um but i'll tell you my background is interesting my

00:02:57.940 father is a university professor of english my mother uh they met at oxford in the 1950s and she was

00:03:05.460 a noted beauty and uh so she always had an interest in clothes to look good so i grew up with these two 0.50

00:03:12.300 influences in my home my house had a subscription to the times literary supplement and vogue those

00:03:17.860 were the two biggest influences of my life and my dad was always fascinated by the minutiae of men's

00:03:24.120 clothing not so much fashion as convention you know convention in men's fashion is so much more

00:03:30.500 important than it is in women's fashion uh the convention convention of how to do things properly

00:03:35.800 and as a gentleman should are so riven with class conventions uh and military traditions um those

00:03:43.660 things are actually at odds with fashion and they've they they they keep hold men's clothing back

00:03:49.860 against fashion my dad he was from south africa which is where i was born and he um went to oxford

00:03:56.360 as a road scholar and so was slightly outside the the privileged classes at oxford had a different

00:04:02.560 accent a colonial accent and really had to learn these conventions of proper uh gentleman's behavior

00:04:09.360 in a place that was highly class conscious so he learned all these these conventions of the right

00:04:15.500 dinner jacket the right way to lace your shoes to button your jackets um the right kinds of suspenders

00:04:22.220 what to call the uh the third piece of your suit and how to pronounce it and he taught all those

00:04:28.360 things to me as a child so i grew up fascinated by these things interesting and you i guess the punk

00:04:33.060 rock thing was just like a you're going to rebel against that was that well it wasn't no really it

00:04:38.180 was all part of that you know for me punk rock was rebelling against blandness punk rock was a way

00:04:42.440 of being a peacock um and and standing out uh so it was really just another manifestation of fashion

00:04:49.940 and after punk rock as a very young man i went through all the different post-punk new wave

00:04:54.820 manifestations of different fashions you know rockabilly and ska and goth and new romantic i had

00:05:01.600 long hair and makeup and um and scarves uh those were those were all just different expressions of

00:05:07.860 different forms of flamboyance really right yeah don't worry i don't dress like that anymore

00:05:12.040 like it's interesting you make the point about how uh even people who in the punk rock scene were

00:05:17.980 very fashion conscious because there's the general um idea out there from the you know most public

00:05:23.940 it's like oh they don't care what they look like as a look at them oh god yeah not well in the 1970s

00:05:29.280 it was very much about how you look yeah right yeah i mean well even i you know i was uh i was in high

00:05:34.460 school in the 90s and i i was sort of in dabbled in the punk ska scene and i remember just seeing like

00:05:40.360 people these kids like how much time they would spend like studying their jacket or like getting the

00:05:45.920 patches right so i mean it looked like they didn't care but no they really cared a lot oh yeah there's a

00:05:52.000 a lot of work that goes into it yeah right yeah um so in the book you you make the case that style

00:05:57.740 and caring about dressing well um at least for men gets attacked or is held in suspect by both

00:06:04.680 people who would call themselves conservative socially or liberal or progressive um so what

00:06:11.300 are the respective criticisms and how do you counter those well it's funny it's pretty much the same from

00:06:16.400 the left and the right the right the right says that um it is uncool uh unmanly to pay attention to

00:06:25.120 your clothing that it's effeminate um that's what a social conservative would think um and uh a leftist

00:06:33.880 thinks that it is frivolous that it is not serious that um it's uh uh evidence of a wastefulness a wasteful

00:06:42.200 kind of thinking um and uh and uh um again evidence of a lack of seriousness um we have this convention

00:06:50.640 in our society this is pretty recent it's only in really in 20th century society um that a man should

00:06:57.400 um uh be valued only on what he does and not on how he appears and that any kind of training or

00:07:07.480 flamboyant appearance uh makes him seem less serious and less powerful um that's really a blip

00:07:15.760 in history in the history of men's clothing men especially powerful men have signaled their power

00:07:22.120 through finery right through human history and even the most macho of warriors military men

00:07:29.960 have the most flamboyant uniforms uh you know think of of of uh you know plumed helmets and uh

00:07:38.400 uh um uh red uniforms and um all the different uh gold braid that goes into military uniforms um

00:07:48.120 those are those those are really the most flamboyant outfits of all or those are the most macho

00:07:53.480 men um think of kings um and and nobles showing off their status with silk and lace and and finery

00:08:01.680 it really wasn't until the rise of democracy in the 19th century um that men uh began to try to

00:08:11.920 appear as if they were below their social station it was something of a liability after the french 0.92

00:08:17.800 revolution in europe to go around proclaiming aristocratic status um and it became more

00:08:24.960 fashionable to appear to be a commoner and that's when the rise of the uniform garment began the kind

00:08:31.680 of matching jacket and pants of a dark fabric that became the men's suit and that that began its rise

00:08:38.760 in europe in the early 19th century and from about the mid 19th century on it hasn't changed it's a

00:08:44.720 standard garment uh that that is a is a manifestation of democracy it's all men dressed the same so that

00:08:51.840 we cannot tell the class differences among them that was that was how it arose um and really in the uh

00:08:59.940 it wasn't until the mid 20th century and really the counterculture of the 1960s uh that this idea

00:09:07.340 began to arise that the natural man uh was the most manly man that is a man who didn't pay any

00:09:14.300 attention to his grooming who didn't shave who let his hair grow uh and who didn't uh uh care about

00:09:20.140 his appearance that was it came hand in hand with a with a valuing of nature of back to the land um

00:09:26.920 and even before that if you think of male icons of the 1930s or even the 1950s if you think of cary

00:09:35.320 grant if you think of sean connery as james bond the masculine ideal there was not just a man who was

00:09:42.960 competent and um uh masculine and also may be violent like james bond but who was also sophisticated

00:09:51.340 who wore a nicely fitted suit who shaved um who knew something about opera and which wine to pair

00:09:59.120 with fish that was a masculine ideal the idea that one could be elegant and sophisticated and manly at

00:10:06.160 the same time that kind of died in the 1960s uh and again that's if you think of human history that's

00:10:12.080 just a tiny little blip and of course now we're getting back to the idea that men can be elegant

00:10:17.880 and sophisticated and manly at the same time i think family finally the all-natural movement

00:10:22.960 of the 60s and 70s is dying wearing itself out because i mean i i mean i guess it seems like you

00:10:27.880 talk about this in the book as far as men's style go in style in general there seems to be just

00:10:32.220 it goes in like it's a pendulum right um yeah it'll one generation will rebel against the other

00:10:37.940 so i guess the baby boomers were rebelling against their brooks brothers wearing dads right

00:10:43.640 parents yeah yeah um so i know a lot of men who think that still think that though they're still in

00:10:49.760 that natural man mode they think why bother right why do you think you know why is it important to

00:10:55.100 care how you dress i mean so why do you think uh a man should care how he dresses and and you are 0.63

00:11:01.520 make a case i think it's interesting is that you say that our clothes are a form of art and gift to

00:11:05.780 others how so right i think that you dress out of respect to people around you and you dress not

00:11:11.400 just for yourself but to make the people around you feel valued if i if i am dressing carelessly or

00:11:18.700 slavishly in the presence of people around me it makes it gives them a subtle perhaps unconscious

00:11:23.800 idea that i don't take them awfully seriously if i dress up to be in the presence of others i dress up i

00:11:30.040 don't mean i'm always going to be wearing a bow tie i just mean that i dress um uh i dress uh

00:11:37.200 cleanly and elegantly as if i've made a choice for them uh then they feel valued and they feel

00:11:42.920 respected and that goes for events that you go to as well if you dress well to go to a certain place

00:11:49.520 uh it shows respect for that place on a more uh practical level for one's own

00:11:56.480 a lot more selfish level it helps one immensely to dress well in life because people simply treat

00:12:04.560 you better they treat you differently and you can do this experiment i mean you can go to a police

00:12:09.180 station um wearing a hoodie and ask for help or you can go wearing a suit and tie and ask for help and

00:12:14.620 you'll see what happens um people wearing a suit and tie uh are treated with more deference they are

00:12:21.080 treated with more respect people come to them uh to take the lead in the crisis uh you may deplore

00:12:26.800 that you may think it's a bad thing and maybe it is but still we could use it to our advantage

00:12:31.800 and uh i mean do you like you work from home i imagine do you get up and wear a coat and tie

00:12:38.220 every day no i don't no i don't you know i'm i'm wearing the hoodies i talk to you right now

00:12:42.900 and it's funny i crave an excuse to wear nice clothes and i i do i have a sort of opposite schedule

00:12:50.400 from everybody else because i work at home what i what happens is i when i finish my work day at

00:12:55.260 five or six o'clock if that's when i shave and shower and that's when i put on a jacket and tie

00:13:00.780 and i go out so it's it's kind of the opposite of everyone who's coming home at that time taking that

00:13:05.100 off um but i very much look forward to that moment you know there's a great anecdote in it's a scene

00:13:11.320 in heart of darkness by joseph conrad when the the narrator is um first progressing down the river

00:13:20.160 into the jungle um and in africa and the foliage starts getting dense and the heat starts getting

00:13:28.240 oppressive and they start leaving civilization behind they come to the last outpost of belgian 1.00

00:13:33.480 civilization and it's a telegraph hut a telegraph operator in the jungle deep in the jungle

00:13:38.600 employed by the belgian colonists and he comes out to meet the boat and he lives alone in this hut

00:13:44.860 in the jungle and he's wearing a dark suit and starch collar and tie in this intolerable heat

00:13:50.800 and the narrator wonders why would he do that all day long they're sitting alone in the jungle but the

00:13:58.020 narrator reflects that in the vast degeneration of the land was character that's a kind of a funny

00:14:06.500 european uh belief that that i think is sort of deep in all of us that that uh we dress ourselves

00:14:14.980 up as armor to fight off the decay and entropy around us i kind of like that idea i like that

00:14:21.020 idea too and i feel too not only do when i dress up well like do others treat me differently but like

00:14:26.320 i think of myself differently i take myself a little more serious yes than when i yeah so there's

00:14:31.780 i'm happier i'm just happier when i'm well dressed i i i just feel i can deal with anything i do feel

00:14:38.060 that it's a kind of armor that protects me right yeah i mean there's days i work from home too so

00:14:42.480 i'm typically wearing t-shirts and jeans um but when i like i when i'm in that mode i gotta get stuff

00:14:47.040 done like i'll dress up and uh yeah it helps and there's a psychological boost that it gives you and

00:14:53.460 i'll tell you something else too that's important for men as they age to remember because i'm middle-aged

00:14:58.360 i'm 52 years old and i i'm very nervous about looking silly trying to carry off casual or hipster

00:15:08.240 clothes at this age i think that that one's ability to dress in casual clothes declines

00:15:14.920 as one gets older because one doesn't quite have the perfect body and one doesn't have the useful

00:15:19.980 glow and so a clever t-shirt and running shoes uh is not as sexy on a middle-aged man with gray hair

00:15:27.220 um and so i think that it really helps one as one grows older to start moving into finer and finer

00:15:34.860 quality and slightly dressier clothes you know i haven't given up on social life i still like going

00:15:41.320 out to nightclubs where people are generally quite a bit younger than me and my god i certainly still

00:15:47.120 want to be attractive to young women but uh i am not going to do it by dressing like a kid if i'm

00:15:53.260 going to go to a nightclub where people are largely going to be younger than me i may well be the only

00:15:59.280 person in a fitted navy suit and tie and that's fine with me because then i am being exactly who

00:16:05.460 i am i'm not trying to pretend i'm someone else uh people can say oh that's the older guy and that's

00:16:11.680 cool um and i feel much more confident that if i'm than if i'm simply trying to fit in with everybody

00:16:18.420 gotcha so throughout the book uh you mentioned that like sensuality as a quality that you should

00:16:25.660 try to convey with your clothes which i think is interesting because like whenever i dress i never

00:16:29.220 that's like not the i don't even think about am i looking sensual um so why is that a quality men

00:16:34.920 should be comfortable expressing well yeah and it's a tricky one because so much men's fashion

00:16:40.740 traditionally is against sensuality right the the the main goal of the standard

00:16:46.860 men's business suit is not sensuality it's to express sobriety which which is a bit at odds

00:16:52.860 if you think of the dark colors that are standard in in men's suiting charcoal uh navy and and black

00:17:01.960 um these come from a long tradition of professions that are meant to express sobriety if you think for

00:17:08.340 example of the priesthood priests uh from various religions around the world were black uh as an

00:17:16.040 expression of asceticism and sobriety a kind of distance from the pleasures of the world in other

00:17:22.280 words an anti-sensuality so where in this uniform do we find uh a window in which to express sensuality

00:17:30.800 well in fabrics um the fabrics of nancy are extremely uh soft and delicate and silk like these days

00:17:38.600 um in crisp cotton um and in the little details the tie in particular you know the tie is such a weird

00:17:46.080 thing it's such it's such a such a such a useless practically a completely useless garment the tie

00:17:53.500 the tie has no practical role whatever it is purely aesthetic it actually evolved from a scarf

00:17:59.240 in the in the 17th century uh uh scarves were the uh simplest way for people to keep their

00:18:06.600 shirt closed at the neck buttons were actually quite expensive and so there were eyelets in the

00:18:12.420 shirt um which you would pull over your head in the v-neck and then you'd hold it closed with a scarf

00:18:17.760 and people particularly um soldiers started to develop more more elaborate ways of tying these knots of

00:18:25.000 their scarves so that the show of these knots and that's and that's where we get the origin of the

00:18:29.560 tie gradually evolved but now we don't need it to keep our shirts closed uh we just need it because

00:18:34.900 it's the only bit of color and a very feminine kind of fabric silk uh in this in this otherwise closed

00:18:43.520 off sober outfit um and uh the tie is just like this little window on your soul uh because the rest of

00:18:52.100 your body is completely covered up and what about i guess pocket squares would be another way

00:18:57.120 pocket squares would be another way socks um uh uh cufflinks um and uh and of course men's shoes are

00:19:06.820 so luxurious too i mean i mean they're they're they're extremely expensive and um what you're showing

00:19:13.560 off when you're wearing these shoes is a kind of handcrafted solidity you know you want to you want to

00:19:19.100 show um a little bit of luxury with your shoes but in such a subtle way so people who don't know

00:19:26.480 anything about shoes don't realize how expensive they are they don't realize uh what kind of labor

00:19:32.360 goes into them uh so that's a kind of very subtle expression of luxury well speaking of shoes you

00:19:37.960 advocate spending a lot on shoes i mean i don't advocate spending a lot of money on clothes generally

00:19:43.660 i think one can get away um with um a very limited budget and i do having lived as a freelance writer

00:19:51.100 for many years um shoes is the one thing i don't think you can skimp on because um shoes are really

00:19:57.720 the fundament of your outfit they're like the route from which the whole outfit grows and uh again people

00:20:03.740 who are class conscious and that tends to be people who come from the privileged classes are the ones who

00:20:09.520 notice class differences and signifies not people who don't comfort those classes that's the trick

00:20:14.760 of it um they recognize certain shibboleths um and so they will note your shoes right away um the other

00:20:22.820 thing is if you spend a lot of money on shoes they'll last many years um and they tend not to go in and out

00:20:27.700 of fashion the way suit uh shapes do and so it's really it's really worth it well so i mean what uh if

00:20:34.380 a guy's like wanting to upgrade his wardrobe uh what's like the the go-to dress shoe that he should

00:20:40.040 probably make his first investment in uh you okay well you need um one pair of uh your very first

00:20:48.560 shoe would be one pair of black leather lace-up shoes uh that's an oxford style shoe now there are

00:20:55.600 various variations on the style but it should be as simple as possible you could have a toe cap or not

00:21:00.500 and my thing and this is a lot of people think this is a bit too extravagant but my thing is they

00:21:05.240 must have a leather sole the leather sole makes them expensive that means they're going to be

00:21:10.020 probably uh over 250 maybe 300 dollars um and uh the point about the leather sole is people can

00:21:20.100 recognize that it looks good you could put on take it to a cobbler and put a small rubber a thin rubber

00:21:25.340 layer over it so that it never wears out you can keep replacing that rubber layer um and

00:21:30.480 those shoes will will last you forever um so that'll be your first pair now unfortunately black

00:21:36.240 shoes are kind of going out of fashion as you've probably noticed but more and more people with

00:21:39.960 suits are wearing brown shoes this has really been the style for the last 10 years um and so your

00:21:46.420 second pair of shoes um should be brown or burgundy um they should also be plain uh although

00:21:54.620 uh with brown shoes uh you could go the most most ornate thing you could do is go to a brogue a brogue

00:22:03.120 is the is the shoe with the um uh patterns made of punched holes in it um that's called broguing

00:22:10.400 um uh or tooling that's called tooled leather um and so that would be that would be your second pair

00:22:17.860 gotcha basically you need black black and brown leather soles lace up not so black okay the third

00:22:23.840 pair would be a pair of slip on ankle boots i would say like chelsea boots which would be very useful

00:22:29.240 for casual clothing okay very good now and what about suits in that i think you can kind of lay out like

00:22:34.600 a suit ladder i mean a lot of guys right when uh they're thinking okay i gotta get it most guys don't

00:22:39.140 have a suit which i'm not surprised by this because like a suit's so useful because you can wear it to

00:22:43.900 job interviews or a funeral or a wedding um so for an all-purpose suit for guys buying his first suit

00:22:49.560 what what color should he go for right there's only two you can choose from yeah i'm giving you a

00:22:56.220 choice of navy or charcoal so charcoal is a very dark gray not quite black now uh either of those are

00:23:04.220 appropriate for your first suit you choose whichever you think matches your coloring best

00:23:07.960 but um those suits are both very very versatile uh they could be worn in the day

00:23:13.680 or in the evening the reason i wouldn't choose black is that black tends to look a little bit 0.98

00:23:19.240 cheap i don't know why that is um but it's just not um it's just not a very respectable suit it looks

00:23:27.540 like uh reservoir dogs like the guys yeah exactly i mean it looks a bit gangstery it shows lint very

00:23:33.440 badly and it can be a bit shiny and there's just something wrong about it i can't quite put my finger

00:23:38.600 around what it is but um you need something that's dark but not quite black now it's very

00:23:43.900 important that your first suit be dark even if you live in a warm place like los angeles i think that

00:23:48.820 um uh a light suit uh is not at all versatile and it's going to look silly uh and casual in certain

00:23:58.080 situations but dark suit is much more versatile once you have two suits once you have a navy and a

00:24:04.000 charcoal then you can move on to buying a summer suit uh in a lighter color but don't get light

00:24:09.320 gray until you've really got a bunch of suits now those the navy and the charcoal can be paired with

00:24:16.160 an almost infinite variety of shirts and ties uh and again black or brown shoes depending on how

00:24:22.000 dressy you want to be uh traditionally a black shoe is the most formal although even that is changing

00:24:28.260 you know recently here in canada we just had an election and a new prime minister was elected and he

00:24:33.400 is a very young prime minister is in his 40s um and he shocked uh everyone by going to his

00:24:41.380 inauguration ceremony in a navy suit and brown shoes i think this was the first time that it

00:24:46.600 ever been done and a lot of people complained that it seemed disrespectful and informal but that's

00:24:51.660 that's the way things were going it was it was a bit for us uh like the moment when john f kennedy

00:24:58.120 showed up at his inauguration 1961 without a hat you know that was quite a daring step well it's

00:25:05.360 interesting you talk about this in the book i mean this is kind of going off the point of the history

00:25:07.780 of men's style like usually the changes in style are made by political leaders um right so there's

00:25:14.240 like a way you're supposed to do things and i guess the uh windsor you know he was like the guy who

00:25:19.640 kind of propagated the windsor knot and then like he one of the i forgot one of the kings in england he

00:25:24.400 started wearing things a little more casually and people were stunned that he did it and then but

00:25:29.420 then a year later that's what everyone was doing well yeah i mean the part of the most famous example

00:25:34.640 of that would be um would be prince albert queen victoria's son who became edward the seventh

00:25:40.080 he was um a daring guy in that he behaved like a bit of a playboy and he um went to racetracks and

00:25:49.220 he hung around with actresses and americans and uh and so people were interested in his lifestyle

00:25:55.500 because he was something of a celebrity and so people started following his clothing he had this

00:25:59.900 um uh their house in scotland uh of balmoral and he loved to go spend a lot of time because he liked to

00:26:08.660 shoot and hunt and so he started wearing plaid which was a scottish influence and plaid became all

00:26:15.200 the rage in victorian england uh really because of prince albert that's why we have so much plaid in

00:26:20.520 our wardrobes now it comes from his adventures in scotland he also had a little bit of a weight

00:26:26.400 problem and he liked to eat a lot and he would wear a waistcoat a vest uh as part of his suit with many

00:26:35.080 buttons and apparently at the end of his meals he would be so stuffed he'd unbutton the last button

00:26:41.420 on his waistcoat and this became uh a fashion and to this day we never do up the bottom button

00:26:49.320 of our waistcoat just the same way we don't do up the bottom button of our suit jacket this is all

00:26:53.800 prince albert's influence and then uh the next uh would be king who was edward the eighth who advocated

00:27:01.880 became the duke of windsor was um a uh a very very popular fashion plate the popular papers were

00:27:09.700 always uh photographing his style and of course this was just the time when uh photographic magazines

00:27:15.600 were first becoming popular and so um he was photographed everywhere um always wearing elegant

00:27:22.860 matty suits and both of those guys did a lot to casualize man's clothing they started toning down

00:27:29.740 some more more formal wear so for example uh uh prince albert uh where that at that time one would

00:27:37.380 wear a white tie to dinner in the evening that is a long tailcoat and a white tie and a white waistcoat

00:27:43.240 the most formal outfit there is and at balmoral he started having more casual dinners where he would

00:27:47.660 wear a shorter jacket um and a black tie which was very dressy down and that became the modern tuxedo

00:27:55.080 um i think it's all uh going less formal so i mean if royalty was the thing the the group that

00:28:04.220 dictated style changes or fashion styles for for men what's our royalty today i mean who are the men

00:28:11.260 that drive the changes in men's style well obviously it's it's celebrities it's it's um it's popular

00:28:19.300 entertainers it's singers um it's actors and singers more than anything um and there's been a great

00:28:27.580 revolution against uh convention and tradition um that's that's really democratized version um and so

00:28:38.860 the influences are coming from everywhere now i don't think you can say there's any one uh there's

00:28:44.360 there's any one source that one looks to on on how to dress um and that makes that that's better for

00:28:53.680 the world generally and that it makes it a more democratic place with fewer class barriers and

00:28:57.680 shibboleth um at the same time it means it makes it a little bit more confusing for men who are trying

00:29:02.880 to decide how to dress and there are various movements going on of that could only be described

00:29:09.320 as conservatism that are that are uh dandy movements um that are encouraging men um and

00:29:16.240 african-american men in particular in the united states uh um uh to uh espouse fine and conventional

00:29:26.660 clothing suits and ties and pocket squares in a very colorful and flamboyant manner there's an

00:29:32.360 interesting movement in africa going on right now that you've probably heard of called the sapeurs

00:29:36.600 the sapeurs uh or a group of uh very underprivileged men from the congo uh who'd spent all of their

00:29:45.120 money on hand-tailored suits and ties in very bright colors um and leather shoes and all kinds of

00:29:52.600 accoutrement like canes and hats and and they looked like very old-fashioned dandies and it's a form of

00:29:57.820 social rebellion for them it's a form of kind of uh trying to move themselves out of of the sense

00:30:06.280 of uh lack of privilege that they have to be noticed in the world and those guys uh have uh

00:30:13.700 have presences in other european capitals uh like paris in particular so there's all kinds of

00:30:21.280 strange explosions going on right now of um the kind of a defiant interest uh in a luxurious and

00:30:30.800 flamboyant way of men's dressing all right i mean and you we wrote this book a couple years ago um

00:30:35.860 i mean are you surprised by some of these changes that are happening or did you kind of see it was

00:30:40.400 like the writing on no i'm not i mean i did i did say we're we're emerging out of this period of word

00:30:46.100 in which we value the all natural um and we have started to embrace artistry and the an artifice

00:30:54.620 uh again um and so uh yeah i could i could i could kind of see this coming um i mean i didn't see coming

00:31:04.140 uh counter movements like normcore you know uh and uh and uh i mean it'll always be a counterweight

00:31:12.320 to anything anything like this right and for our listeners you know aren't like normcore is like

00:31:16.880 when people dress like jerry seinfeld basically right normcore is i you know what it may be a

00:31:22.300 purely fictitious movement invented by the media that the idea of the metrosexual was largely invented

00:31:27.660 by the media actually as well um the actual metrosexual was rarely seen in the wild more in the pages of

00:31:34.140 newspapers and magazines i think the same goes for normcore uh the idea is that the most fashionable

00:31:40.320 and cool of hipsters in the urban centers of north america particularly in brooklyn um uh decided to

00:31:48.560 reject fashion so completely that they began to embrace a kind of anti-fashion which involved

00:31:55.100 deliberately ugly and bland clothes so to look uh not like a hipster but like a tourist from the

00:32:00.800 midwest um with running shoes and and plain jeans maybe acid wash jeans and a t-shirt with a logo on

00:32:09.000 it um and maybe a windbreaker uh that's the idea of the the blandest and most unnoticeable of all

00:32:17.100 that would be the highest fashion of all and that's called normcore irony you know what yeah it's just it

00:32:23.400 makes my brain hurt deep levels of cool yeah right well i'm curious i mean what do you think the future

00:32:30.320 is of men's style because it seems like it's been stuck like it's sort of the same thing for the past

00:32:36.100 a hundred odd years a little hundred plus years where it's a suit white shirt tie i mean are we

00:32:42.480 ever going to be move beyond that or is this are we kind of reach the apex isn't that fascinating

00:32:47.000 it's really weird because like i mean you look at like just like in the revolutionary times like

00:32:50.840 they're wearing like uh breeches and like you know frock coats and like these you know you know

00:32:55.300 very flamboyant things wigs and like we just we've we're done and i guess it's like i don't know what's

00:33:01.080 going decadence like we just we reached the apex and we're just gonna stick there it's um it's very

00:33:07.180 strange how long this has stayed without any change at all um and um that western standard the western

00:33:14.480 standard stood us spread to the rest of the world as well um so it's incredibly powerful and and fixed

00:33:20.460 and you know what fashion itself has been trying to fight it against it for decades so you get

00:33:25.080 high-end fashion designers runway fashion every year doing shows in which outrageous and

00:33:32.160 groundbreaking outfits are thrown down the runway men in completely crocheted outfits men in skirts i

00:33:38.860 mean for how many years have you been hearing there's about to be a revival of men wearing skirts

00:33:43.460 i've been hearing this since the 1980s i remember going to fashion shows i lived in paris as a student

00:33:48.720 in 1985 and seeing men in skirts where they walked down the runway and thinking aha finally men are

00:33:54.340 going to wear skirts well every five years we see someone say it's coming back and it never ever ever

00:33:59.040 does because uh fashion is always at odds with this with this uh very powerful force of convention

00:34:07.640 in the sense that a man must look a certain way in order to play a certain role and i i don't see that

00:34:14.620 changing anytime soon uh i i think that um certainly our ideas of gender are slowly changing our ideas

00:34:24.900 that that gender is fixed and has to be defined in a certain way is slowly changing so maybe we'll see

00:34:30.120 some more androgyny uh in men's fashion in future years i think that's gradually happening but not

00:34:37.020 nearly as fast anyone would have expected so i don't know the answer to that and i and i can't give it

00:34:44.000 i think you should go and buy suits now they'll be good for the next 20 years i could tell you that

00:34:48.040 there you go and i mean you talk about going back to the practicalities of style um you you mentioned

00:34:52.960 you don't really you don't advocate spending a lot on clothing um so should guys invest in like a

00:35:00.400 custom-made suit or made to measure off i mean what if they're buying clothes should they not feel bad

00:35:05.360 going to a a good department store that has good good brand suits there and buying that and getting it

00:35:11.000 tailored to fit or should they go custom-made um that's a good question and both are good um

00:35:16.460 nowadays in most cities there are there are brand new businesses developing as we speak and proliferating

00:35:23.520 uh specializing in custom suits and what they're doing is they're going you'll take their uh they

00:35:30.520 will take your measurements and then they will send those measurements off to asia somewhere it will

00:35:36.180 either be china or india or pakistan or or or vietnam where there are tailors working um and they

00:35:43.720 will cut a certain pattern but to your size it's it's not all that different really from buying a suit

00:35:50.680 off the rack and you're not getting um an actual bespoke suit you're not actually getting a suit that's

00:35:57.360 cut to fit you you're getting a slight modification on an existing pattern it's still in a very very good

00:36:02.760 deal uh and those suits are hardly more than suits off the rack from a great department store so um

00:36:08.880 uh i would say yes uh it is uh that's probably will fit you a bit better it's not a whole lot more

00:36:16.700 expensive and so i would get yourself um uh a made to measure suit uh the top end tailors tend to

00:36:24.560 distinguish they all have a different vocabulary but but here they tend to distinguish between made to

00:36:29.280 measure and bespoke so made to measure means what i've just described they do give you um a slightly

00:36:35.560 different size of an existing pattern a bespoke suit is something much higher end and it's where

00:36:40.340 they're going to start from scratch and draw you see and cut it for you um i know here in toronto a

00:36:47.520 suit like that will start at about five thousand dollars um so that's not what i'm talking about um

00:36:52.680 but uh i would also say that there's nothing wrong with buying cheap quick fashion from trendy chains

00:37:01.960 like say zara or h&m um because uh it makes one feel good to have a nasty suit that's in fashion it's

00:37:11.380 not going to last you forever it's not going to be the best quality but that's okay because the style

00:37:14.800 is not going to last forever and i'm talking about suits that are going to cost you say three or three

00:37:19.360 four hundred dollars um i think that that uh if you're strapped for cash it's really worth it

00:37:25.560 to have one of those find you on every couple of years uh spend a lot of money on your shoes

00:37:31.740 on your shirt and on your tie and nobody will notice that you have a cheap shoe that's okay great advice

00:37:37.460 there well russell besides writing about style you also uh are a uh great short stories um can you tell

00:37:44.540 us a little bit about your latest collection of short stories and where listeners can find out more

00:37:47.980 about your work yeah i i'm a novelist and i've written uh several novels um my last novel was

00:37:55.640 a book called girl crazy um and my most recent collection is a book of short stories and it's

00:38:01.200 called confidence and it's about urban people who live in cities and have affairs and do terrible

00:38:06.960 things to each other and so it's a it's a it's a funny and sad book and you can get it on amazon

00:38:12.860 um but you can also um check my website which is russellsmith.ca fantastic well russell smith thank

00:38:20.080 you so much for your time it's been a pleasure it's been a pleasure talking to you thank you

00:38:23.700 my guest name is russell smith he's the author of the book men's style the thinking man's guide to

00:38:27.760 dress and that's available on amazon.com and you can find more information about russell's work at

00:38:32.680 russellsmith.ca well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips

00:38:41.380 and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com and if

00:38:45.100 you enjoy this podcast i'd really appreciate if you give us a review on itunes or stitcher

00:38:48.440 as always appreciate the support and until next time this is brett mckay telling you to stay

00:38:52.620 manly

00:39:22.620 you

The Art of Manliness - February 03, 2016

#174： The Thinking Man's Guide to Style

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