The Art of Manliness - #185： Forces of Character

00:00:00.000 right mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so

00:00:18.520 what is character right we always talk about we want to develop good character what what exactly

00:00:23.120 does that mean and once you figure out what good character is how do we go about developing it well

00:00:28.900 that's the questions or those are the questions my guest tries to answer in his book forces of

00:00:33.180 character his name's chad hennings and if you're a dallas cowboys fan you probably know who he is

00:00:37.920 uh you guys had an amazing career went to the the air force academy served in the persian gulf

00:00:43.400 as an a-10 pilot uh came back from the persian gulf war and played for the dallas cowboys for

00:00:49.640 several seasons and won four super bowl or excuse me three super bowl championships in four years

00:00:54.780 and in his book forces of character chad interviews and talks to different people that he's

00:00:59.900 interacted throughout his life high profile individuals supreme court justices football

00:01:05.760 coaches uh you name it he's talked to them and he asked them like what character means to them

00:01:11.540 and how they went about developing character themselves as well as in their own family or

00:01:17.300 with the individuals that they led either on a sports team or in business etc really great discussion

00:01:22.980 um i think you're gonna like it so without further ado chad hennings and forces of character

00:01:27.360 chad hennings welcome to the show hey pleasure to be on thanks for having me on so your new book is

00:01:40.880 called forces of character where you interview friends associates mentors that have been involved

00:01:45.500 in your life in some way or another about what character means and what it means to live a life

00:01:50.260 of character what was the impetus behind this book was there something that happened in your life

00:01:54.900 that you felt like you needed to write this you know i think it's all the things that we are

00:01:59.360 consistently bombarded with day in day out whether that be through the media through relationships

00:02:04.940 through whatever where i just see character lacking whether that's you know watching political debates

00:02:11.720 you know in this political season approaching the presidential election to you know athletes on the field

00:02:18.240 uh hurting their teams with certain unsportsmanlike conduct to uh things you read about in the business

00:02:25.340 section day in day out that i really wanted to start a conversation about the importance of character

00:02:31.600 and and why it matters to us as individuals as well as to us collectively in our culture

00:02:36.800 you start with the book talking about what you mean by character and i think everyone has a different

00:02:40.960 definition of what it means to live a life of character but how do you define it

00:02:44.380 you know character in essence it's you know doing the right thing and i know that's a very broad

00:02:49.940 definition but to me it's certain is defined by certain traits whether that be functional moral character

00:02:57.080 about selflessness self-discipline perseverance resilience how you treat others you know following

00:03:03.740 that golden rule of do unto others as you'd have them do unto you um you know for me i define

00:03:09.740 being an individual of character or being a force of character as someone who lives to be their best

00:03:15.720 self every day who encourages others to do the same as well as lifting those organization or those

00:03:22.160 entities that they're affiliated with whether that be a family a business a team encouraging those around

00:03:28.080 them to live to a higher noble purpose and cause so it's you know it's it's taking in all those

00:03:34.260 different things and bottom line if you had to boil it down to just one statement it's it's following

00:03:39.820 that golden rule of of servant leadership and doing unto others as you know you want them to do unto you

00:03:45.620 so it seems like there's an emphasis on action is that what you mean by when you say in your book

00:03:50.260 character is kinetic very much so character is can be made as an analogy just like when you exercise

00:03:57.780 your workout you're exercising a muscle group if you're doing a bench you're doing a squat

00:04:02.180 character is made up of of those small decisions that you make day in day out that that they matter

00:04:10.640 that you don't just wake up and decide as i write about the book to hey i'm gonna rob a bank today or

00:04:17.860 um hey i want to go start a homeless shelter no those things decisions who you are first of all it's a

00:04:26.020 choice and those decisions that you make impact you know your actions and whether you can achieve

00:04:33.120 to be the person that you want to be for your tomorrows so so character has to be active it's

00:04:38.880 just not a light switch that you turn on and turn off it's an identity and and that's why i talk about

00:04:44.220 it's it's it's kinetic that it really takes in all your thoughts your words and your actions

00:04:50.820 who you are as an individual going forward in your life now i know many of our listeners are likely

00:04:55.880 familiar with you and your career with the dallas cowboys and in professional football

00:04:59.580 how much did football influence how you perceive character you know what lessons you take from the

00:05:06.100 football field that you're able to apply to just regular everyday life you know i look back i would say

00:05:11.540 not much from playing professionally because who i was as an individual is already ingrained

00:05:17.080 in my identity but going back i'll go going back playing football in elementary school where

00:05:23.480 you're on the playground where you're just out there with your friends that's where i learned

00:05:27.480 the importance of of character because it's those lessons i talk about athletics you know particularly

00:05:33.200 football being one of the best leadership laboratories you know that that there is where you learn life's

00:05:39.440 lessons on character on again those things how do you play with others you know how do you define

00:05:44.400 your role as an individual on the confines of the team how do you overcome adversity how do you act

00:05:51.120 how do you act when you win when you lose uh what's the commitment your practice in the off you know

00:05:56.820 quote-unquote off season or your preparation how do you think strategically how do you think tactically

00:06:01.620 all these different lessons i learned as a kid growing up that were solidified as to who the person that i

00:06:09.340 you know i wanted to be and chose to be because we all played with those kids that were selfish that were

00:06:13.580 ball hogs you know you don't want to be around those guys because it's all about them and you 1.00

00:06:18.560 learn early on that to win a game that's a team sport you need others around you and you need to

00:06:24.260 encourage everybody to be doing their role to the utmost in order to win the game so i mean all kids

00:06:31.000 see that so that's where it's important to have these conversations with your kids at an early age even

00:06:37.300 when you're watching on television when you're watching say the super bowl you know how those players

00:06:42.720 yeah they're great athletes tremendous athletes but more importantly talk to your kids about

00:06:48.800 you know how do they act on the field when something gets a call against them or do they

00:06:54.280 pick up their the opponent after they tackle them you know and slap them on the butt you know and say 0.88

00:07:00.140 good job those are all great lessons to learn that we all can learn through athletics either by

00:07:04.880 participating or by being a uh a fan just watching him from afar yeah i i think that's interesting i

00:07:13.740 love the analogy between athletics training for sport and using that as a now as an analogy to

00:07:18.740 train your character you know i've been listening to these lectures about stoic philosophers and they

00:07:23.320 often use the analogy of the olympic games and training physically uh to training your soul and i think

00:07:30.160 that's what we would call character i just love that analogy um you in the book you interview

00:07:35.600 several people ranging from roger staubach to supreme court justice clarence thomas how did you go about

00:07:42.060 selecting the individuals you included in the book first of all my whole goal was to to show that

00:07:47.140 character is ubiquitous you don't have to be from a certain economic level or you don't have to come

00:07:53.640 from a particular background to exemplify characters so i picked individuals from a broad breadth of

00:08:00.200 background from different races uh gender to you know experience and and they all to me were as i

00:08:08.760 defined earlier what a force of character was and you named a few from clarence thomas to roger

00:08:15.200 staubach troitman greg popovich coach for the spurs a space shuttle commander uh ceo for the national

00:08:22.300 center on fathering an auschwitz survivor uh international human rights attorney out of

00:08:27.080 communist romania to uh a homelessness expert you know all these people very wide background but they

00:08:35.300 all have impacted others by being a force of character and and that's why i wanted to get it

00:08:41.040 out and that was the intent of having you know as broad of audience as i can because anybody can read

00:08:46.980 this book and take something out of it because they're going to relate to one of the individuals in

00:08:51.600 one of the chapters uh that i wrote about we'll get into the specifics of some of the folks you

00:08:56.680 interviewed but as you interviewed them was there one thing or a few things they all had in common

00:09:01.500 when it came to living a life of character you know ultimately they all had that transformational

00:09:06.180 moment where they realized that character mattered you know a lot of them we talked uh i wrote about i

00:09:11.840 think all the cowboy players for those people that are cowboy haters out there can emphasize with this

00:09:17.180 but you know as young kids they all stole something whether it was roger stallback a little virgin

00:09:22.420 mary icon troy eggman was a pocket knife i took a football card jason garrett stole a um a pack of gum

00:09:32.260 from a neighborhood store but it was all those things where they felt guilt they felt remorse

00:09:36.780 and they were held accountable for that after you know they went to our parents you know we're

00:09:41.200 punished appropriately but we had to go face it up and return those items and um you know that's

00:09:48.960 where for everybody across the board had that transformational moment where they realized that

00:09:53.860 the difference between right and wrong that your decisions every day matter and they then transform

00:09:59.400 that that experience into being that again that force of character being your best self every day

00:10:05.200 encourage others to do the same and then lifting those around you to a higher noble purpose or cause

00:10:10.460 i thought the story about uh you stealing the football card was was pretty funny you made a

00:10:16.020 little girl cry yeah it's a great way to open a book i you know i stole a football card from a little

00:10:22.280 girl yeah yeah there there was a learning moment right there i thought it was interesting too that a lot

00:10:28.360 of the people you interviewed grew up on farms they came from a rural lifestyle what is it about a

00:10:34.800 what is it about farm living that helps people develop character well you know one of the aspects

00:10:40.300 i mentioned earlier too about functional characters is work ethic um and that's where growing up on a

00:10:47.060 farm i grew up on a farm in iowa and i watched by watching my father my grandfather my brother you

00:10:54.360 know work the land because as a farmer if you don't get up there there's no days off if you don't go out

00:11:00.940 and take care of your livestock you don't go out and till the soil or plant the soil or harvest this

00:11:07.600 or harvest the um the crops that you plant nobody's there to do it for you it's up to you so it's that

00:11:14.220 aspect of personal responsibility because if you don't take care of your family you know there's

00:11:18.900 nobody there to do that so it's you know those are you know that great american work ethic whatever

00:11:25.160 that i think has been in our national psyche for years was based on that agarian society of

00:11:31.900 people working the land and that translates over you know it carried over for me and my my career is

00:11:39.200 both either as a fighter pilot or as a football player you know i took those same lessons in life

00:11:44.220 about work ethic and worked as hard as i could to to be the man that i am today i think there's

00:11:50.020 something about farm work too that it helps you become resilient you know farming you're dependent

00:11:54.120 upon the weather for example and you have no control over that well that's where i laugh at

00:12:00.000 my dad and i said man i don't know how you can deal with the stress because in other businesses you can

00:12:05.740 control certain inputs into your business to control margins of the cost of your goods or cost of goods sold

00:12:13.120 etc our production timing but as a farmer you have no control over the commodity prices of your grain or

00:12:20.100 your livestock that you sell you can't control the weather you can't control the cost of your inputs it

00:12:26.940 it is what it is and there's really only thing that you can do is control who you are as a person work your

00:12:34.140 hardest getting the crops in and you know praying to god that that you get a crop that you don't get

00:12:40.460 drought or uh too much rain and overabundance of rain where you get flooded out

00:12:45.660 to your point that these farmers are probably the most resilient people that i know yeah whenever

00:12:52.820 i read these stories uh yeah i grew up in the suburbs of oklahoma playing super nintendo and i feel like i

00:12:58.520 missed out on something in life by not growing up on a farm i didn't get that whole school of hard

00:13:03.820 knocks and i guess sports helped me with that but um yeah i feel like i missed out so let's get into

00:13:10.700 specifics here uh one of the people you interviewed was the famous dallas cowboys quarterback roger

00:13:15.240 staubach and i love the story about duty and consistency when it comes to building character

00:13:20.240 what did he have to say about those two ideals about living a life of character

00:13:24.760 uh roger being very similar and this is one of the reasons i want to interview him because we had a

00:13:30.220 came from a common background he went to the naval academy and i graduated from the air force academy

00:13:35.080 and ultimately served our commitment and went on to play for the cowboys

00:13:38.440 you know of course he's a hall of fame quarterback super bowl champion you know the great and been a

00:13:44.340 huge mentor to me but what he talked about was that aspect of character kinetic that it's it's not so

00:13:51.720 much the words you say it's it's your actions and and today if for those parents that are out there

00:13:58.560 listening or for anybody that is mentoring a young person you know just to go off on a quick side note

00:14:03.260 here is that kids today they have a pretty good filter pretty good radar of you know are they going

00:14:09.520 to trust you just based on because kids today are bombarded with media that they they can determine

00:14:15.040 you know pretty much who they trust and who they who they don't so if you're not exemplifying those

00:14:20.740 lessons that you're trying to teach your kids or those individuals that you're mentoring you might as

00:14:26.420 well give up on it because they're not going to listen to you it's going to go in one ear and out the

00:14:30.040 other you got to walk the walk and that's what roger talked about doing his duty you know he talked

00:14:35.840 about a story i don't want to take anything from those of you that want to read the book but when

00:14:39.220 he was in vietnam as a supply officer had some issues with certain aspects of corruption going on and how

00:14:46.800 he had to confront that and he had a choice where he could have turned you know turned his eye

00:14:51.320 turned his head the other way and forgot about it just allowed the stuff to go on and write wrote his

00:14:56.300 time out but he confronted that and then also on the football field he talked about certain

00:15:01.100 individuals that you know he had to pull aside or how he had to motivate them on the field and again

00:15:07.260 it was living the life that he did the choices the decisions the thoughts the actions all the things

00:15:13.020 that he the things that he said mattered because he knew that people were watching them so to live

00:15:17.960 that life of character you have to you have to walk it walk the walk much more so than than than talk

00:15:25.440 the talk it's a daily thing too i think most people approach self-improvement you know they

00:15:30.180 get on the bandwagon you know they say this is the time i'm going to change and they have like this big

00:15:35.040 effort at the beginning and they make some some progress and when they don't make any progress they

00:15:40.080 just stop it's not consistent and i guess light a life of character requires you know just daily

00:15:45.700 workaday actions it's boring it's unsexy but that's how you develop a life of character just

00:15:51.200 doing the little things on a regular basis and and that's what matters the most it's not the

00:15:55.900 spectacular the magnanimous things we do in life it's those little things to your point day in day

00:16:01.820 out that matter most that truly define who we are as individuals another person you talked to is a

00:16:07.660 gentleman by the name of bob sweeney he's part of an organization that works with the homeless in

00:16:12.300 dallas and what i thought was fascinating about him was that he and his organization have a 20 you know

00:16:17.620 they have 25 times higher success rate with getting folks off the streets you know that's not 25 percent

00:16:23.100 higher it's 25 times higher i'm curious what's the secret sauce what is he doing different from a lot

00:16:29.940 of the other agencies organizations that work with the homeless well he works on the aspect of identity

00:16:36.260 and again not to take away all this the stories but from a high level here he deal with people that

00:16:42.200 are homeless typically come from a varied background it doesn't matter your you know your race your

00:16:47.520 gender whatever but a lot of people fall into these cycles these downward spirals whether that be

00:16:54.520 addiction through substance abuse or uh you know physical abuse relationships or just you know life

00:17:01.680 happens health issues where they find themselves homeless but it's the identity of do they take

00:17:07.220 personal accountability or responsibility for their actions or do they you know blame the others you

00:17:14.780 know it's my ex-wife or it was my my ex-husband or it's you know it was that relationship or that job

00:17:20.980 it was only that boss's fault in what he has made his program so successful his he gets people to take

00:17:29.040 personal responsibilities to who they are their identity to be that individual of character to then

00:17:35.140 take that on where they can go on and become you know who they really choose to be and the big thing

00:17:41.820 about it too is he talks about holistically he talks to them about you know the importance of taking

00:17:47.280 care of yourself physically of of bettering yourself mentally of of getting that education at least that

00:17:52.620 high school education if not taking any continuing education beyond that but also the spiritual component

00:17:59.140 he's an unabashed christian and that is what really gets people to find their purpose their meaning

00:18:06.620 in life where then they can go out and be that individual of of character and take responsibility

00:18:13.100 for who they are and be a productive member of society so it it gets you know bottom line it's it's

00:18:18.980 their identity he helps them find out who they are first and foremost and then helps them become

00:18:24.420 that person they could be that they that they want we all want to be somebody but a lot of people

00:18:29.660 i mean with somebody of of significance well you know bottom line we all want to live a life of

00:18:34.360 significance i firmly believe we all want to look back on our lives you know say we made a difference

00:18:39.020 some people are willing to pay the price for that some people are willing to to make those tough calls

00:18:44.320 those decisions to do those little things day in day out and others it may be too difficult based

00:18:50.680 on circumstances again life happens but it's you know that true character is resides in that how you

00:18:56.920 respond when quote unquote that life happens to you and and that's where i mean we're all tested

00:19:03.280 and that's where you know he gets people to to step up to the plate and realize granted it may not have

00:19:09.480 been my fault but the decisions i make from here going forward that is my responsibility helping to

00:19:15.280 become farmers right exactly now i never knew who this lady was until i read your book her name is dr 0.99

00:19:21.340 edger and she was in auschwitz and but what can we learn from her about dealing with hard times in

00:19:27.240 life i mean because like being an auschwitz that's like the ultimate hard time um what did you glean

00:19:32.920 from her about the character traits you need to develop for the hard times she was probably one of

00:19:38.820 my favorite uh interviews or conversations that i had she what a remarkable lady she's probably 88 0.95

00:19:46.320 years old now but as a 16 year old teenager growing up in in um in hungary where she you know a fairly

00:19:56.160 middle-class family uh very affluent uh they were sent put on the cattle car from hungary to poland

00:20:03.400 to auschwitz you know along that train ride there her mother pulls her and her daughter her father had

00:20:09.100 already been separated from them you know and she tell her mother holds her head her hands and says you

00:20:16.300 know edie we're not sure her name's eager her not sure what's going to happen to us we're not sure where

00:20:22.200 we're going to go but always remember they can't take away you know what you think what your thoughts

00:20:27.600 the choices that you make and when as soon as they got to auschwitz they get off the train they come 0.75

00:20:32.640 face to face with dr joseph mengele you know the angel of death who is known for you know just standing

00:20:39.300 there pointing his finger to the right or to the left his thumb and her mother was sent to the right

00:20:44.340 the girls were sent to the left mother goes to the gas chamber you know she is murdered killed

00:20:50.820 and edie was a classically trained ballerina where she ended up having to perform for mengele

00:20:56.800 before his dinner so here she is she has a choice to make what am i going to do do i choose to forgive

00:21:03.640 this guy you know this guy murdered my mother you know what what am i going to do how do i live how do

00:21:08.980 i survive this and just a tremendous character on finding meaning and purpose in life and in my

00:21:16.820 excuse you know my statement to people okay after hearing a story like that where she made a choice

00:21:22.580 she realized that she always had a choice what's your excuse you know and and that's the thing about

00:21:29.480 i learned most from her was again resilience and that that life is a choice we have a choice no matter

00:21:36.700 what happens to you you go have an experience through a concentration camp which is the ultimate

00:21:42.380 extreme where you're left to the bare essence of humanity just to survive and and how you survive

00:21:49.320 you can survive with dignity or you can serve i mean we all have a choice no matter what we have a choice

00:21:54.940 so we can choose how we respond you know we can't choose what happens to us we can choose how we

00:21:58.880 respond that's that that was interesting too you also talk about how humor uh is important to set

00:22:05.160 packs and problems like that it's always trying to find the joy you know the true marrow of life

00:22:09.760 now greg popovich was one of the individuals you interviewed and i've always been a big fan of san

00:22:13.640 antonio spurs it's one of those basketball teams they're they've done consistently well but they're

00:22:18.640 not flashy they're very workaday and they've developed this um you know popovich has been able to create

00:22:24.280 this atmosphere within the team that's very team first it's not about the individual like you see in the

00:22:30.240 free agents out there from your conversation with you had with him what did he do to develop this

00:22:36.160 ethos of team first you know i look at the experiences of a greg popovich and i'll make

00:22:43.560 another example of uh coach k and duke you know both were service academy graduates greg popovich was

00:22:50.100 from the air force academy and coach k being from west point but they're both have dynasties duke has

00:22:56.760 been a you know consistently this i think this is the first time in i don't know how many seasons

00:23:01.040 that they've actually dropped out of the top 25 as a ranked team but over the years you know national

00:23:06.460 champions uh last year and then you look at coach pop how many you know nba titles has he won in the

00:23:13.700 last he's they've established dynasties and why is that it's because they take the importance it's more

00:23:20.000 than just basketball in the culture that they're they're nurturing it's it's about coaching the

00:23:26.300 individual the man coach pop cares about one the individual guys that he's recruiting or that they're

00:23:33.820 wanting to bring on to play for the spurs matters he's not going to get a guy who can't laugh at

00:23:40.940 himself who has that self-deprecating humor or he can't he won't recruit a guy who always blames

00:23:46.320 somebody else that you know i should have made all american but if it wasn't for my coach to give

00:23:50.300 me that extra playing time he he just won't take him because it's it's about the me more so than

00:23:56.380 about the we as as a team and then he also it's important for him to you know get to know the

00:24:03.720 individual's families to know who they are as a holistic person again i use the phrase coaching the

00:24:08.540 man because they'll do different exercises you know before team meetings about word vocabulary or hey

00:24:15.720 we're going to name can you how many capitals of each state can you can you name little things that

00:24:20.680 kind of break the ice but give these guys an experience beyond just you know running different

00:24:27.560 offense or defensive sets and getting up and down down the court and how's your three-pointer or how's

00:24:32.760 your you know free throw form it's it's about coaching the man and that's why his success is he has a

00:24:38.180 lot of his former players come back and want to coach for him or want to be a part of the organization

00:24:42.040 he's just establishing a culture that that matters and and and it uh it goes deeper than just what

00:24:51.740 you're doing for an occupation or a job and this means he's probably turned down some really great

00:24:55.940 talent you know he's not banking on it right he's thinking something long term here he's not putting

00:25:01.280 success all in just one player exactly it is it's a long-term vision you're not going to get there

00:25:07.180 overnight he didn't get there overnight but once you get you know you get people to buy into that

00:25:13.220 vision as as your players and understand the importance of it you have that connectivity and

00:25:18.540 that call it the skin in the game where you're wanting you want to be a part of that and he like

00:25:24.280 his tim duncan's and um several of the other players could have gone off to free agency or taking

00:25:30.240 more money but they chose to stay there to take less because they want to they realize the importance of

00:25:35.640 being around that that culture and those core values that coach pop has said you know there's

00:25:40.840 lots of other individuals we could talk about in your book but there's one i want to talk about

00:25:44.400 because i think it's important a fellow by the name of carrie casey uh he devoted his life to being a

00:25:50.420 role model and being a mentor and i think for the folks who are listening to this all of us here are

00:25:54.540 well well not all of us are some of us are fathers and some of us just have young men in our lives that

00:26:00.280 we could be mentoring i think it's an important aspect of passing on character the next generation

00:26:04.600 what did you learn from casey about the best way of going about mentoring the next generation of

00:26:10.780 young men young people to have good strong character you know i what i learned for him is

00:26:15.760 you know carrie is the ceo for the national center on fathering is that fathers matter you know it does

00:26:21.920 take a family a mother and a father you know to raise children because from dads a child gets that

00:26:30.940 sense of identity and that sense of values from the mother you know from the father from the mother

00:26:36.200 they'll get empathy and and feeling and and the nurturing aspect it's because male and female but

00:26:43.420 what i learned from him is that it takes time it's not something that you have yeah you want to provide a

00:26:51.340 good material uh upbringing for your kids you know to do your best but what matters the most what your

00:26:57.580 kids want the most is your time your attention and i and i'll admit i was i've been guilty of that in

00:27:04.220 you know when i was playing for the cowboys i had young children and there was so much

00:27:07.900 stress and you know and being a dallas cowboy at times when you're trying to get that team position

00:27:14.280 you're either trying to make the team or maintain your starting position or preparation for a game

00:27:18.840 that many times i can looking back that i was home physically but home i wasn't home mentally i was

00:27:25.500 thinking about other things and i just wasn't there and i did not give my kids the time and when i

00:27:31.160 realized that that it that it matters it's just not it's both quality as well as quantity of time

00:27:37.600 and carrie has done this so much that he he mentors a lot of you know whether they're black white athletes

00:27:44.780 um non-athletes that it matters because you got to let them know that you care and how do you let

00:27:52.160 them know that you care is by spending time with them and and that's the thing that for those of

00:27:58.540 you guys who are out there listening right now that are dads you need to spend the time and it's not

00:28:03.360 just five minutes here ten minutes there get that one-on-one time find something to do common with your

00:28:08.520 kids where you can talk because again the kids if you're not exemplifying it if you're just talking

00:28:14.900 about well this is a lesson on character today son they're thinking they're in a classroom and they

00:28:19.660 don't want that they want to spend time with you where it's a natural part of the conversation

00:28:24.080 love that well chad this has been a great conversation where can people learn more about

00:28:27.960 you and your work you can go to uh forces of character.com or you can go to chad hennings.com

00:28:34.140 either one of those you can um learn more about what i'm doing as well as um learn about the book

00:28:41.400 chad hennings thank you so much for your time it's been a pleasure hey thank you brett my guest

00:28:45.940 today was chad hennings he's the author of the book forces of character and you can find that

00:28:49.740 on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere or find out more information about the book at forces of

00:28:53.840 character.com well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips

00:29:01.060 and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com and if

00:29:04.640 you enjoy the podcast i'd really appreciate it if you give us a review on itunes or stitcher

00:29:08.100 as always i appreciate the support and until next time this is brett mckay telling you to stay

00:29:12.040 manly

00:29:12.840 manly

The Art of Manliness - March 21, 2016

#185： Forces of Character

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