The Art of Manliness - #201： Rules for Your Newborn Daughter

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. So if you're

00:00:18.720 a dad or plan on being a dad at some point in your life, you probably got some principles,

00:00:23.380 some rules, some advice that you want to pass on to your children so they can grow up to

00:00:27.800 be well-adjusted, useful adults. My guest today has done that like most dads have, but he actually

00:00:34.020 put them in a book and published it. His name is Walker Lamont. I had him on the podcast back in

00:00:38.460 2009, discuss his popular book, Rules for My Unborn Son, where he lays out style advice,

00:00:43.340 relationship advice, just rules on etiquette that he hopes his son will follow. His son's now eight

00:00:49.400 years old and we're going to talk about how those rules are going, the implementation of those rules

00:00:54.340 have gone so far in Walker's life and his son's life. But Walker's also got a new book out called

00:00:58.940 Rules for My Newborn Daughter, where he talks about the rules that he wants his daughter to follow.

00:01:05.300 And so today on the podcast, we're going to discuss some of these rules. We're going to discuss

00:01:08.540 fatherhood. What's it like fathering a daughter? How's it different from fathering a son? We're

00:01:15.700 going to discuss relationships advice from fathers to daughters, discuss champagne at baseball parks.

00:01:22.160 This is baseball parks. This is something new I've heard about. And apparently I think this is an

00:01:27.100 apostasy to baseball. Do not do this. We're going to discuss why you shouldn't drink champagne at

00:01:31.340 baseball parks. Getting a lot more fun stuff. So without further ado, Walker Lamont and Rules for

00:01:36.660 My Newborn Daughter. And after the show, make sure to check out the show notes at

00:01:39.760 aom.is slash Lamont for links to resources we mentioned through the podcast.

00:01:46.700 Walker Lamont, welcome back to the show.

00:01:49.960 Thank you, Brett. I appreciate having me. It's great.

00:01:53.900 Yeah. You were actually one of my very first podcast guests back in 2009.

00:01:58.360 I feel like we're like the OG. I'm a little embarrassed how long it's been since that first

00:02:06.100 book came out. But no, that was great. That was the early days. We were pioneers, right?

00:02:11.900 And this whole man thing, right?

00:02:13.600 Yeah. So yeah, we had you on the podcast back in 2009 to talk about your book, Rules for My Unborn

00:02:20.800 Son. And that was a book, it started out as an online project, as a blog where you kind of wrote

00:02:27.260 these rules for your yet-to-be-born son. And you had your son. His name's Arthur, right?

00:02:33.380 Correct.

00:02:33.980 Correct. Yeah. Arthur's eight now, which is crazy.

00:02:37.320 Can you believe it?

00:02:38.680 So how has your family changed since then? And how has fathering changed as your kids have

00:02:44.200 gotten older and you've added more to the family?

00:02:47.240 That's a good question. One of the reasons that I wrote the book to begin with is because

00:02:52.220 I knew that as soon as the kids started coming, it was going to be really hard to stick to all

00:02:57.300 those good intentions. So part of the plan was, let's get this stuff down now because I know that

00:03:03.720 it's going to get crazy. And of course it did. So Arthur came along. A couple of years later,

00:03:10.720 we ended up having our daughter. Our family moved overseas. We've been overseas for a while. We now

00:03:17.820 have a third child. Our family's growing. It's crazier by the day. It's awesome. As predicted,

00:03:25.180 things have gotten crazy. You get the mayhem of infants and toddlers and it gets a little harder

00:03:31.220 to keep your cool and stick to all those parenting rules. But I've had to revise my policy on shorts.

00:03:38.960 Oh yeah, I was right. One of the rules was no shorts.

00:03:41.460 Yeah. That's also maybe a factor of living in the desert now. But once you've let your kid go to

00:03:48.060 school in a Batman costume, you pretty much have to learn how to be a little more flexible

00:03:52.740 with them, with yourself. I think before I had my first son, I was imagining my kid wearing a tie

00:04:00.340 and reading a newspaper in kindergarten. And now I'm just psyched if he has on both of his shoes

00:04:04.800 when we leave the house. But I still have the book. The book is there on the shelf. It's like this

00:04:11.640 written proof of my good intentions. It's like the constitution. It's like you pull it down every once

00:04:16.440 in a while when you're completely lost. Wait, I had a good idea in here at one point.

00:04:21.180 So yeah, you've had to revise some things as the rubber met the road with the rules. Yeah,

00:04:27.040 I remember the no shorts thing we talked about. That was one of the more controversial ones.

00:04:31.640 If you were just up in arms. Once you become a dad, you don't have as much free time to go

00:04:36.600 peacocking around in your three-piece suit. But I've tried to stick to my uniform. You try to stick to

00:04:43.180 as best you can. But you let yourself off the hook when you fall off. But at the time, I really

00:04:51.320 only thought I was going to have to write that one book. Right. And that would be it. It would be easy

00:04:55.980 to follow. It was just like a lark. It was a fun little project. It was almost like a journaling

00:05:01.060 project that I had started online. And then it picked up steam. Yeah, it picked up steam.

00:05:06.080 It turned into something bigger. Yeah, I remember one of the other controversial rules was

00:05:08.960 no wheelie luggage. No wheelie luggage. You know what? I stuck to it. You stuck to it. You stuck

00:05:15.260 to that one. I got three kids and still no wheelie luggage. And let me tell you, it's brutal.

00:05:20.960 It's brutal. Especially living overseas when we're hauling around eight army size duffel bags. But

00:05:26.640 I'm sticking to it. I like how you've got ideals. You're sticking to it. Yeah. So rules for my

00:05:33.100 on-board son were rules for your son. So they're kind of geared towards boys, men. Rules for my 0.63

00:05:38.780 on-board daughter is about advice from a father to a daughter. But before we get into like specific

00:05:45.080 rules, I'd like to know, you know, what's your overarching goal with your daughter? Right. I

00:05:52.060 mean, I think a lot of guys, they think about, you know, being a dad to a son. I want to play catch

00:05:56.480 with them. I want to teach them this cool stuff. I want to help them be like learning all these skills

00:06:00.620 and be, you know, useful and blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, I don't think they spend too much time

00:06:05.240 thinking about like, what do I, what does it mean to be like a father to a daughter? So I'm curious,

00:06:09.560 as you came up with these rules for your daughter, advice for your daughter, you know, what kind of

00:06:16.220 woman do you want her to grow up to be? Well, you know, it is tricky for a lot of guys to think about

00:06:26.520 this idea of, you know, a father raising a girl, because, you know, there's initially that fear of

00:06:33.040 what do I know about being a girl? You know, what right do I have to tell her to do things? Um, 0.99

00:06:39.660 uh, but you know, in an ideal world, and when I, when you think about it in theory, I want

00:06:45.360 my daughter to be a good person. I want her to be independent and intelligent and courteous,

00:06:51.400 uh, brave and adventurous and all those great things, well-read and well-dressed,

00:06:56.680 just the same things I wanted out of my son. Um, I mean, at the heart of it, you, you want your kid

00:07:02.240 to be happy. Uh, I, I think being happy is rooted in, um, being confident. You know, I want my kids

00:07:10.100 to be confident. I, and I don't think that means, I don't think that's achieved necessarily by telling

00:07:15.480 them they're great all the time. It doesn't mean you say, Hey, you're smart, you're fast, you're pretty.

00:07:19.580 You know, I think it's about giving them specific skills, you know, or putting them in a position

00:07:25.280 to learn these skills themselves that fosters a self-confidence. Um, you know, I, the, the gag

00:07:32.040 of the book has always been this list of do's and don'ts, these rules, but that, you know,

00:07:35.820 that's always really just been a hook. I mean, this is, it's just a guide to a particular approach

00:07:40.360 to life. And you talk about this a lot on your blog, which is, uh, a rich life about embracing

00:07:46.080 challenges and, uh, acquiring skills and, you know, rejecting that path of least resistance.

00:07:53.700 You know, um, I mean, that could mean, you know, it could mean learning to change a tire. It could

00:07:58.400 mean setting a dinner table. I mean, cause you know, and then this day and age, I mean, those

00:08:04.740 things are, those things are hard. They're easily outsourced, you know, but I want my daughter

00:08:09.780 just like I want my son to learn them, not because she necessarily needs to, but because

00:08:15.320 it will make her happier. I think it'll make her more confident and more interesting. Um,

00:08:21.600 I was reading something on your blog the other day. Am I allowed to still call it a blog? I feel

00:08:25.940 like it's bigger than that. Yeah. I still call it a blog. I still call it like, what do I do? I'm a

00:08:30.360 blogger. All right. That's what I do. Okay. I mean, it's, it's shorthand. Um, you know,

00:08:35.040 you talk about how we live in this land of plenty and, and kind of in recent years, this

00:08:43.140 idea that we've kind of devalued the, the goal of growing up, um, or just in this land

00:08:50.240 of plenty, it feels like, uh, men and women both have this temptation that to not do as

00:08:58.020 much. Um, but I want my daughter to do more, you know, I want her to travel and cook and 0.54

00:09:05.020 eat, read and vote and build stuff. And, you know, it, it's not necessarily out of a need

00:09:12.000 for survival anymore, but it is about this need to have a rich life. So, I mean, my goals

00:09:18.220 for my daughter are the same as for my son. Um, you know, resist the path of least resistance.

00:09:25.200 I'm curious, uh, has your approach to fathering changed, uh, because you have a daughter. So I've

00:09:31.620 talked to a lot of guys that said that it did like the way they approach fatherhood changed

00:09:36.540 when they, when they had a daughter compared to when they had a son or for you, is it pretty

00:09:40.500 much the same? Um, you know, before you have kids and when you think about having a son,

00:09:46.760 you know, most guys, uh, they kind of envision their son as going to be like this new and improved

00:09:52.380 version of themselves. Right. You know, like, yeah, I'm going to teach you everything I know

00:09:57.100 and I'm going to correct all my own mistakes. Right. Like the thing I remember was like, yeah,

00:10:01.320 my kids are going to just play with wooden blocks. They're not going to watch TV. They're

00:10:05.060 going to use their imaginations. Yeah. Every hobby that I always meant to pick up, like I'm

00:10:10.100 going to like teach them immediately. And, and that's cool. That's, that's what being a dad's

00:10:14.300 all about. And then you have your kid and you realize that they're totally their own person.

00:10:19.600 And I mean, there's, they can be so different from you. They're like strangers sometimes. I mean,

00:10:24.040 you know, my son is my flesh and blood and, but he could be a guy just ran into in a bar. We're so

00:10:29.680 different sometimes. So, you know, the, it's not, and it's not just now about like making him a

00:10:37.860 version of yourself when you have a daughter, it, it only amplifies that feeling. Um, she has these

00:10:45.260 unique challenges that, um, that we can't even begin to understand. Um, you know, so I think having

00:10:53.920 that daughter, it does teach you to take it a little easier on yourself, uh, and your expectations

00:10:59.040 about kind of, you know, being a parent, what you're going to teach these people. Um, I mean,

00:11:06.320 cause you know, when you're parenting, it's, it's a lot of, it's about projecting your, your own need

00:11:11.820 for self-improvement on them. Um, but, uh, but, but having a daughter's it's, it's wonderful. You know,

00:11:18.540 I mean, it's, it's a, having a daughter is like the best way to turn any man into a feminist, you 1.00

00:11:24.580 know? Um, and, but, you know, will, does my approach to parenting change a little bit? Um,

00:11:33.280 it's a good question because, you know, I, I, I really stick to this idea that I've always thought

00:11:38.060 all the advice I put, even in the first book, you know, is all pretty general, gender neutral,

00:11:43.460 you know? I mean, you know, yes, the first book was a conversation between a father and a son and

00:11:50.140 there's a lot of, you know, guy imagery and there's a lot of, um, you know, some, it was pretty male

00:11:56.620 centric or at least if not in tone, whatever. But, but I always kind of thought like, you know, girls,

00:12:01.960 this, this is for girls too. Um, but then my wife kind of pointed out, she's like, yeah, but then 1.00

00:12:07.900 there's this stuff about neckties and baseball and, you know, maybe, maybe girls need their own book.

00:12:12.520 And I started thinking about that. I was like, you know, is that a good thing that girls need

00:12:16.420 their own book, that they should have their own rules? Or should I, you know, dismiss that as,

00:12:21.360 as, you know, perpetrating some gender divide that doesn't exist? I mean, these are all questions you

00:12:29.020 can kind of debate forever, but in reality, girls and boys are different. You realize that as soon as

00:12:33.740 they're born, they're wonderfully different. They're hilariously different, but not just because

00:12:38.340 they're boys and girls, because they're different people. You know, I mean, my, my daughter is just

00:12:41.900 very different from my son. Um, so, you know, are the, the things I'm teaching my daughter any

00:12:48.620 different than the ones I'm teaching my son? No. I mean, when we go outside and practice putting up

00:12:52.740 the tent in the backyard, she's there too, hammering in steaks. You know, if we're planting veggies in

00:12:56.860 the garden, they're both there. These aren't girl and boy skills, um, learning to sail or play the piano,

00:13:03.780 you know, you know, and my daughter's super competitive. So she wants to be right there 0.99

00:13:07.820 with my son. Um, I don't think any of these skills are necessary. I don't think any of these

00:13:15.660 things are gender specific. I, I, I'm strongly feel that, um, setting a table or writing thank you

00:13:22.140 notes or wrenching a car, you know, every boy and girl should know how to do this. But I mean,

00:13:28.760 that is not to say that they are the same, that boys and girls are the same or will or ever that

00:13:37.120 they'll have the same skillset. I mean, they're going to have different skills because they have

00:13:41.680 different interests. You know, my son's going to be into camping, my daughter's into sports. Um,

00:13:47.240 so you do have to adapt a little bit for each kid, not because they're a boy and a girl,

00:13:51.760 but because they're different people. Right. Does that make any sense?

00:13:54.420 That makes, that makes perfect sense. No, that makes perfect sense. It's the same with,

00:13:57.020 Leah, with my kids. Uh, my daughter, like she likes to do the stuff that, you know,

00:14:01.220 me and Gus do. She's right there with us. Rough and tumble, roughing, rough housing,

00:14:06.180 out going outside, doing, you know, monkeying around in the, my garage gym. She's right there.

00:14:11.280 And that could change. Yeah, it could change. I mean, these kids are going to hit puberty

00:14:14.420 and they're going to have all kinds of different things going on their mind and bodies and,

00:14:18.480 and their interests might change and I might have to adapt what skill sets I'm teaching them,

00:14:22.640 you know, and outsource some of that stuff to their mom or whatever. But, um,

00:14:25.780 but you know, well, I'll let you, I'll let you keep going because it is a tricky issue and we'll get

00:14:32.620 to it, I think. Yeah. Well, I mean, and then like speaking of, so like a lot of the advice,

00:14:36.600 like you said, and the rules for my, my younger daughter, I was reading is like, Oh, this is a

00:14:39.980 nice reminder for me. Right. Yeah. I should write thank you notes or I, uh, shouldn't apologize for

00:14:45.420 other people all the time. Right. And that's just like good common, like how to live a good life.

00:14:49.660 But there is advice in there that's geared towards girls, um, or women in general. So I'm curious as

00:14:55.160 a dude, as a guy, how did you approach some of the more gendered advice that's, you know,

00:15:01.300 maybe applicable just to girls? I mean, did you have to like get your wife in on to help you? And

00:15:06.000 like, you know what, what, what, what do I tell my daughter? What are we going to tell our daughter

00:15:08.980 about these sorts of things? Yes, of course. And my wife has been a great resource. And, but

00:15:14.800 you know, and look, I was raised by women. I mean, I, my life, I've been surrounded by all these

00:15:21.500 wonderful, creative, smart, intelligent women. And, you know, so I do feel like I have this body 0.76

00:15:26.920 of institutional knowledge that I kind of am allowed to pass down to my daughter. But so it

00:15:31.860 goes back to this, like kind of main problem I had. One of the reasons I didn't do this book

00:15:37.280 immediately is because I did have this nagging question of whether or not as a man, I had

00:15:44.100 a right. Was it even appropriate for me to be doling out advice to a woman, to a young woman? 0.98

00:15:49.680 Mansplaining. You don't want to mansplain. 0.99

00:15:51.380 Yeah. Right. And that's like this become this buzzword. And, and, and I hesitated a long time

00:15:56.440 about doing it. And then, you know, if I want my daughter to be this strong, independent, brave

00:16:01.620 woman, who's like unafraid to challenge power structures and gender stereotypes. And then the 1.00

00:16:08.100 first thing I do is hand her this book of rules written by a white 40 year old man. I mean, 0.91

00:16:11.880 it doesn't sound like the best way to start out this journey. Right. Um, but you know,

00:16:19.220 I do think that daughters want to hear from their dads. We have institutional knowledge

00:16:24.800 as an older person. Um, and they don't just want necessarily, uh, our approval or a nice

00:16:31.500 well done or whatever. They want ideas. They want advice like any kid does. I mean, boys and

00:16:35.360 girls are so thirsty for this institutional knowledge. Um, so I think as dads, we can, 1.00

00:16:42.140 we can confidently say that we do have a right and we have a duty to tell our daughters what

00:16:48.160 we expect of them. Um, I don't think we should be ashamed to do that or nervous to do that. Um,

00:16:54.360 I think we're allowed to share with them what we know about life and how to make the best of

00:16:58.860 it. Um, you know, that said, I had a system of checks and balances. My wife being the best one 1.00

00:17:06.780 of all, you know, my wife is a trained airspace engineer. She's a foreign service officer. She's

00:17:12.860 works harder than anyone I know. She's graceful. She's funny. She's like the archetype, you know,

00:17:18.420 she's the role model. And, um, if I could have, if I could have gotten her to write this book,

00:17:24.040 I would have, but she's too busy earning a living for the family. So, but she had the veto power, 1.00

00:17:29.800 you know, she was my checks and balances. Um, the, the reality is, is, and you know, this Brett and,

00:17:37.460 and I know that cause I know that you deal with a lot of these issues on your blog all the time.

00:17:42.860 Um, this, you know, the, the gender identities and, and traditional power structures and stuff.

00:17:49.300 But I really believe that if you've lived a life in which you've respected women and you've kept

00:17:53.900 their company and you've admired their talents, then even as a man, you are qualified to pass on

00:18:00.440 some of that institutional knowledge, even down to a girl. Um, there's plenty of stuff I've learned

00:18:05.840 from my mom and my grandmother and my sister and my own role models, many of which are women that I

00:18:11.740 want to pay forward. Um, you know, yes, it will come through the filter of a man, you know, and

00:18:18.360 whatever kind of historical baggage I carry with me, maybe not without even knowing it,

00:18:23.020 but it's also just coming through the lens of being an old, older person or being an American

00:18:28.700 or whatever. Um, you can't kind of avoid that lens, but you know, I look, I'm, I'm not trying

00:18:34.940 to maintain the male power structure or male privilege. I'm, uh, by giving my daughter a book

00:18:39.700 of rules. I mean, I, I have no interest as a father in making things harder for my own daughter

00:18:44.740 to put her at a disadvantage. I want to break down the walls for her or, you know, or better yet,

00:18:51.080 just get out of the way and let her do it for herself, you know, give her the skills so she can 1.00

00:18:55.080 do it. Um, so yeah, mansplaining perhaps, but I think it's just, I think it's just a dad giving

00:19:05.280 advice to your, your daughter. Yeah. I think that's, that's what it is. And I think it comes

00:19:09.680 from the best of intentions and, and, uh, you're trying to do what's best for. Um, but I mean,

00:19:14.860 the other kind of, some people would say problematic, you know, quotation marks, um,

00:19:19.780 aspect of rules for my unborn son and rules for my unborn daughter. And I even get this

00:19:23.860 with the art of madness. It's got like the whole vintage retro vibe to it. And I'm kind

00:19:27.420 of hearkening back to this, you know, traditional stereotypes of masculinity. And like, you know,

00:19:31.680 you do that with your book and it's, I love with both of them books, but I love it. I mean,

00:19:35.200 it looks great. You have these great vintage photos of, you know, starlets and like, you know,

00:19:39.400 famous women, you know, Margaret Thatcher and, uh, Eleanor Roosevelt and, uh, I guess Graham

00:19:45.640 who owned the newspaper, the Washington post. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and like it's, it's got this

00:19:51.140 old fashioned feel to it, but it's not stodgy. So you've been able to somehow combined, you

00:19:56.420 know, some traditional gender advice for gals on, you know, being a classy lady, a dame, a 1.00

00:20:02.140 classy broad, but with advice on being independent and assertive and brave, um, that bucks

00:20:08.800 antiquated gender stereotypes. And I'm sure this has to like drive people bonkers. Cause

00:20:14.380 like they either want it like, okay, no, you gotta either do it, you know, the

00:20:17.500 traditional thing all the way, or you have to like go like this way. So it's

00:20:22.240 gonna, I mean, look, I, I know you've dealt with this, uh, cause like you said, the

00:20:26.540 whole vintage aesthetic of your site of my book, you know, it was very all current at

00:20:30.980 the time to seven years ago or whatever. Um, you know, but people just kind of assume

00:20:37.100 that, that we're just going to be blindly nostalgic about the past.

00:20:40.840 Exactly. And, um, you know, with my first book, um, there was of course that knee jerk

00:20:47.660 reaction from boy, from boys and girls, men and women, you know, so some of the bros

00:20:52.260 out there, I just assumed that this was, you know, a book just praising everything about

00:20:57.540 what was old fashioned. And, you know, oh, that means we can, the good old days when we

00:21:02.220 can assert our male privilege and all that stuff. Um, and there were plenty of women that 1.00

00:21:06.380 looked at my blog or looked at my book, saw maybe the title, saw one rule and just

00:21:11.200 bristled at the idea that there were going to be any rules or skills that only pertain

00:21:15.340 to boys. You know, it felt really exclusive. And, you know, I think with the last book

00:21:21.540 and with this one, I think if you just read it, you know, hopefully just see that, you

00:21:26.280 know, most of all, you know, these rules can, most of them can be applied to boys and

00:21:31.600 girls or gay or straight or whatever, but mostly, you know, look, it's harmless fun

00:21:39.740 mostly, but I, and I, I know that there's, you know, the outrage police will probably

00:21:43.360 jump on this one just like they did the last one. You know, this is a man telling a woman 0.93

00:21:47.700 what to do. Um, but if you really, if you really read it, it's pretty harmless. It's

00:21:52.500 hopefully it's a little funny. It's, I think it's practical at times, but you know, it's

00:21:57.960 important to remember not to get carried away. I mean, this is a very little book. It's just

00:22:02.180 a trifle really. It's not a manifesto. Um, you know, these rules are about developing

00:22:08.880 skills and, and becoming self-reliant and, and, and that includes not taking shit from 0.98

00:22:15.220 your brother or any other person. So, you know, I know empowerment is a bit of a buzzword 0.96

00:22:20.920 these days, but I would characterize a lot of the rules in this book as empowering, you

00:22:25.580 know, um, I think what it's, I think, sorry, I mean, Oh, go ahead. I was just

00:22:30.680 going to say, uh, you know, some of the skills, some of the stuff in there is going

00:22:34.500 to sound old fashioned, you know, and, and because of that, just like on your blog, I

00:22:39.780 think there are so many skills that are being lost that just so many skills just

00:22:45.340 sound old fashioned. And so because of that for the boys book, it was fine. Everything

00:22:51.780 about old fashioned was good because it kind of played into the male, like need to go 0.97

00:22:58.060 back to those good old days or whatever for a book for girls. It's different because old 0.99

00:23:02.220 fashioned is tainted with this memory of an era of, of male privilege or when women had

00:23:09.240 less opportunities, you know? And so it is tricky. Um, you know, but that, that doesn't

00:23:16.480 mean that these skills are necessarily invalid. You know, if I teach my daughter to cook a

00:23:21.640 pie, I'm not telling her, you know, you must cook pies, you know, get in the kitchen and

00:23:28.620 cook a pie. Yeah. I'm just giving her a skill, you know, and that gives her the choice to

00:23:32.960 cook a pie or not to cook a pie. If I teach her to set a proper dinner table or hem a dress, 1.00

00:23:38.480 I'm not saying that she has to play, you know, suburban hostess her whole life or even wear a 0.97

00:23:44.180 dress. No more than if I'm, you know, if I teach my son to change a tire, I'm telling

00:23:49.380 him he has to be a mechanic, you know, the skills give you choice and choice is power,

00:23:55.460 you know? I mean, so I think the big takeaway is that I don't think that there are gender

00:24:01.340 specific skills. Um, right. And, but even when you talk about gender differences, you know,

00:24:07.160 cause like you talk about, you know, the etiquette, right. Uh, you know, if, um, if, you know,

00:24:11.580 one of the advice is if a man offers you his seat, take it. And now some women would bristle 1.00

00:24:16.240 at that. But I mean, I think, I think what you're doing is, and I think we try to do this

00:24:19.740 too, is like under, like, it's like appreciating differences between men and women, um, and just

00:24:25.400 having fun with it and like celebrating those differences and not seeing these sort of gestures

00:24:29.920 as, uh, acts of subjugation or submission or whatever, but just sort of like, Hey, we're

00:24:37.000 men and women. We're different. We got these sort of rituals to, to, you know, talk about

00:24:42.480 that and let's, let's celebrate that. And rituals is a good word and, you know, rituals and customs

00:24:47.720 and, you know, sometimes you can't look at rituals and customs. So literally they become kind of

00:24:54.240 symbolic gestures of what you just said, you know, recognizing our differences and celebrating

00:24:59.660 those, you know, as far as the idea of like being a lady, you know, and, and, you know,

00:25:07.600 it's a little like the idea of a gentleman. Um, these, these words are so saddled with baggage

00:25:12.860 about chivalry and, and, you know, or as for a lady, maybe like female submission and, but it's not,

00:25:20.160 I mean, these it's, this is about being a kind, intelligent person, you know, and those,

00:25:26.520 some may say antiquated gestures of a gentleman or a lady, um, you know, they can kind of represent

00:25:35.040 whatever you want them to represent. If you're going into it as a cynic, they, they may represent,

00:25:39.440 uh, uh, bad days or whatever, but you know, you can also look at it as this is a symbol or a custom

00:25:46.760 of that represents my effort to be kind, generous, you know, well-mannered. Um, you know, it's,

00:25:56.320 it's tricky. I'm kind of like what I'm doing, I think with you is I'm like building up my argument

00:26:01.360 for the inevitable onslaught. It's going to happen. Hey, which I've already gotten, which is fine. I

00:26:06.520 mean, it's great. It's, it, it gives me a chance to think about this stuff. Honestly, when I wrote

00:26:10.900 the first book, I never even gave a thought to, you know, being very overtly inclusive to kind of

00:26:18.700 non-binary sexualities and things. And at first I kind of felt myself backpedaling about worrying

00:26:25.600 about, Oh man, was I, you know, I, was I sounding too like heteronormative and all that stuff,

00:26:30.400 but it was good. It got me thinking about, you know, well, wait a second, these skills work if

00:26:34.940 my kid's gay or not, I don't care. You know? So these, it's a good conversation to have and I'm, 0.58

00:26:39.880 I'm fine having it, you know? Right. Right. Um, so let's kind of get more, some more of the rules.

00:26:47.560 What I thought was interesting. There was a lot of relationship advice, um, in there. And I thought

00:26:51.840 that was great. Cause I think like dads like need to talk to their daughters about relationships

00:26:56.220 because like dads are men and their daughters will be encountering men. Um, so I'm curious,

00:27:03.140 like how has, you know, being a man colored the dating advice or relationship advice that you've,

00:27:09.760 you know, you've put in the book? Well, I mean, you have to, you have to fight your instinct to

00:27:15.000 make every rule in the book, basically like, don't go out with him. Right. Exactly. That's kind of

00:27:19.800 the thing I was getting is like, it was the vibe was like, I think like Walker had his shotgun out

00:27:23.800 cleaning it. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's, it's funny. It's like, you know, a dad giving relationship

00:27:29.840 advice to his daughter, it has its challenges. I mean, you, your instinct is to go into protective

00:27:34.620 mode with all your kids, but with your daughter, I don't know, maybe that's, it's evolution or

00:27:39.300 whatever, but you know, you want to just talk about, you can't date that guy and, and they're all

00:27:43.600 after one thing. Trust me, I've been there. I'm a teenager, you know? Um, but I do think

00:27:49.720 it's important and it was important for me to get past that. And, and, and it took some help

00:27:53.640 from some very smart female friends of mine, um, to point out that it's time to get past that. It's

00:28:00.460 not, it's not really that charming anymore to play, you know, uh, overprotective dad there.

00:28:09.380 Yeah. Because, you know, I'm all for protecting my kid's safety. I mean, that it's not an issue of

00:28:14.640 that. It's, it's about, if parenting is about giving your kid the skills and tools to make

00:28:19.040 their own smart decisions, then you kind of have to, you have to do it and then trust what

00:28:27.220 you've taught them. And to, to be too protective is, it's a little weird. It's a little like

00:28:33.020 over-sexualizing your own kid. And so you don't want to muck around too much in her love

00:28:37.800 life, um, saying, well, I don't trust you, you know, and all that stuff. But, um, you

00:28:43.620 know, so you give them these tools, um, and you give them these rules, right. And, uh, and

00:28:51.320 you, you hope for the best. Um, it doesn't mean I might, uh, you know, come to the door

00:28:57.000 with a fierce look in my eye one day, or if the kid doesn't come to the door and knock

00:29:00.800 on the, bring the doorbell or honks his car, I can, you know, hope that she makes the right

00:29:07.200 choice. But, um, look, my, look, my daughter's going to be a kick-ass, like intelligent, fun 0.90

00:29:13.760 loving woman, confident, great taste. She's not going to need my help to like fend off

00:29:18.340 the barbarians of the gay, you know, she's going to do it herself. Right. Right. That's 1.00

00:29:22.260 the point. That's the point. So, I mean, like, I thought one of the pieces of relationship

00:29:26.640 advice was, it was funny, made me chuckle and actually kind of like, yeah, okay, that makes

00:29:30.600 sense. But like, it was a beware of men who cry easily. So why should your daughter

00:29:36.760 watch out for men who cry? What is it about men who cry easily that your, your daughter

00:29:41.240 should be like, Oh, I don't know about that. Well, I should make, I should make this clear

00:29:44.820 is that I'm a crier. I mean, I, I'm a crier. I'm the guy getting misty watching like Folgers 0.99

00:29:50.160 commercials. And, uh, so way more times than I want to admit, I have blubbered in front of

00:29:56.240 my wife, in front of a bartender. I'm not proud. So that's right. Well, Winston Churchill

00:30:01.260 was a crier. So you're in good company. This is one of those rules where it's like, you know,

00:30:05.860 you're hoping to correct past mistakes. Um, but look, there's nothing wrong with having

00:30:10.060 a good cry. But what I, what I, I think what I mean by this rule is that, you know, be wary

00:30:15.420 of people who are men in particular, who may think that showing this type of outward emotion,

00:30:22.420 like volunteering it really easily is somehow a demonstration of depth or sensitivity or

00:30:28.700 intelligence. And I think because I've been there again, if I'm going to give this advice

00:30:34.160 to my daughter, you know, in my experience, it's a tactic as much as anything else and, um, not a

00:30:41.040 very handsome one. Uh, and, and, um, also I will point out, um, that this rule came from my wife. 0.94

00:30:49.900 Um, I, uh, yeah. So it shows you, uh, what she thinks about me, obviously, since I'm the client,

00:30:58.240 but, uh, but I, I showed it to her and she agreed wholeheartedly. So, uh, all right. Yeah. So,

00:31:03.880 yeah, I, I agree with you. I think like a lot of people who use, who cry all the time at a drop of

00:31:07.600 the head. Yeah. It is a tactic more. It is, you know, or at least it's kind of like, I don't know,

00:31:12.220 it just always, it strikes me as a little, it can strike me as a little weird. It, you just have to be a

00:31:16.520 little, a little wary, but also remember that so many of these rules are, are, can be a little

00:31:21.700 tongue in cheek. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Like, like we learned with rules from my unborn son. Uh,

00:31:26.640 sometimes people will take these things way too serious. Yeah. I mean, actually I posted the other

00:31:31.180 day and sometimes I really post things like they're quite literal. I'm not going to give you the

00:31:35.580 example right now. Cause it inflared like this huge conversation online, but sometimes I mean them

00:31:40.320 quite literally. And then some people will read them like there's some proverb, you know, like,

00:31:44.120 and which is really flattering, but I'm also like, no, I actually mean, you know, roll the

00:31:49.680 dough really flat or whatever, you know, don't, don't squeeze out the juices on the burger. I'm

00:31:54.480 just like, no, that's very literal advice. You're like, you know, so. Yeah, no, I think that was

00:31:59.640 like, uh, you know, Hemingway had a problem with that. Like the people like read too much into the

00:32:04.160 old man in the sea and he's like, no, it's just a, what was he hunting? Like a shark or a fish? It was

00:32:08.800 just a fish. Yeah. I just mean the bottle is green. I really just, I really do. So let's,

00:32:14.100 talk about some of the, some of my favorite quips from the book and. Yeah, good. I love hearing

00:32:18.180 about it because I, I, you know, it's, it's hard to pick your own favorites. Right. So like when I

00:32:23.200 liked it, I said earlier, like if you make it a habit for apologizing for other people, it will

00:32:28.640 always, it's you who will always be sorry. Yes. I mean, it's going to drive you crazy your whole

00:32:35.700 life too. Right. We have, you know, we, I don't know if it's just like, you know, I can only speak

00:32:41.880 for the people alive today. Right. I don't know what it was like a hundred years ago, but it does

00:32:45.780 seem like we enable so many people's bad behavior because we're just afraid of confrontation where

00:32:52.060 we don't think it's our place to like, you know, change another person, especially people that are

00:32:56.760 close to us to tell them that they're wrong or tell them that they're acting poorly. Um, you know,

00:33:02.300 you're acting boorishly or whatever. Um, you know, so we end up apologizing for our friends or our

00:33:09.120 spouses, but we all have our own problems and struggles. You don't want to carry the burden of

00:33:14.840 someone else's too. You know, you gotta, you gotta let, and, and obviously this is kind of like a

00:33:21.120 universal advice, but you know, it can be a very specific advice for a woman too, in a relationship,

00:33:26.080 because we know that a very common problem is, uh, you know, uh, women that, that have to tolerate 1.00

00:33:34.240 less than savory characters in their life. And, you know, they're working hard to keep a relationship

00:33:39.740 together and end up apologizing for someone when really you might just need to pick up and haul ass. 0.95

00:33:46.220 Right. Exactly. Yeah. Another one in there, beware the ladies who lunch. 1.00

00:33:49.900 Um, that is a hat tip to one of my favorite women in the world, Elaine Stretch, a great Broadway and, 0.98

00:33:58.900 and film actress who you may know. You probably recognize her because she did some cameos on 40

00:34:05.160 Rock late in her life. Um, but she, this was her signature song. It comes from, uh, Stephen Sondheim's

00:34:12.020 play Company. Um, and she's really one of my idols. I had, I, back when I was living in New York,

00:34:17.260 I had the chance to work with her cause I was working on a documentary with, about her with

00:34:21.280 D.A. Penny Baker. And so I got to meet her and she's this tough old bird and she's hysterical and 0.94

00:34:27.860 ruthless, but she's also really sensitive and she's so talented. And, um, anyway, she, this was her

00:34:34.320 signature song and it's so scathing and it's all about women who make this big fuss about their lives 1.00

00:34:41.340 with like the charity events and the lunches and the brunches and the martini tennis lessons.

00:34:46.260 And, uh, you know, and there's, and they're, they're always busy and, um, you know, there's

00:34:53.340 nothing wrong with any of those things. There's nothing wrong with these women, but you know, 1.00

00:34:58.060 it's about for this song, it's about women who fill their lives to make up for some kind of deeper 1.00

00:35:03.480 emptiness. You know, you can, you can be busy and still bored and boring. And, uh, and, uh, it's,

00:35:10.460 it's very tricky to avoid that, uh, that group, but again, a bit tug in cheek, but, uh, one of my

00:35:16.220 favorite songs, by the way, uh, if any of you gentlemen out there close to Spotify and want to

00:35:21.180 download some Broadway show tunes, which I know you're all like eager to do, uh, the ladies who lunch

00:35:28.040 from company is a great one. It's so funny. I'll check that out. All right. Um, you got another

00:35:34.920 one here. Uh, if you choose not to own a TV, keep it to yourself. God, don't you just hate it when

00:35:40.900 people say that? Oh, I don't even, I don't even own a TV. Yeah, I know. It's, uh, they talk about,

00:35:46.120 Oh, I got, I've gotten so much, I get so much more done. Yeah. I mean, it's a humble brag, right?

00:35:51.440 It's, it's, it's so much more charming and interesting to embrace your guilty pleasures, you know,

00:35:57.420 be self-deprecating. Like in that situation, I'd be like, Oh, I have a TV and I'm obsessed with it.

00:36:03.160 And I am not ashamed to admit that I stay up till four in the morning to binge watch this

00:36:07.360 particular show or whatever, you know? I mean, this, this is one of those rules where like,

00:36:12.000 yes, it's about TV, but it is about something a little bigger. I mean, we need to remember that,

00:36:16.200 you know, cocktail parties are not job interviews. You know, a conversation with someone is not just

00:36:23.460 you nodding your head and waiting for your turn to talk about yourself or your story. Um, you know,

00:36:30.920 it, your job is not to constantly pitch yourself. Um, and, and I think it's a habit that's really

00:36:37.880 common these days. And I don't know if it's because, you know, more people are out there

00:36:42.580 self-employed or trying to be an entrepreneur or, but there's this, you know, we've really kind of

00:36:48.300 glorified the pitch, you know, whether it's Silicon Valley or Hollywood, it's like everyone's pitching

00:36:53.740 something or themselves. And, uh, it makes for like the most boring cocktail conversation in the

00:36:59.800 world when everyone is just talking about themselves, you know, this is how great I am.

00:37:05.040 And they might couch it by saying like, Oh, I'm so tired and busy. Yeah. Because, you know,

00:37:12.120 I'm finishing this article from the New Yorker or, you know, it's like these humble brags. And I think

00:37:16.440 not on any TV is one of them. You know, it's like, I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on in

00:37:20.800 breaking bad. I only read the New York times. You know, it's like, well, good for you. I'm

00:37:26.520 going to go talk to someone who watched the last Kardashian. Cause then we can have a laugh.

00:37:31.380 Right. Right. And it's the same thing with like, not like, it's not only that, like if you're

00:37:34.660 into paleo, if you're do CrossFit or you do yoga, I'm sure there's a million examples.

00:37:40.300 A million examples. Just like, keep it to yourself. Uh, yeah.

00:37:43.060 Is that a GMO chicken nugget? Whatever. Um, so this is what I thought was like, you don't drink

00:37:52.680 wine at the ballpark first. Is this a thing? Do people drink wine at the ballpark?

00:37:56.900 Have you been to one of the new fancy parks like nationals park or, you know, they've been redoing

00:38:01.640 a lot of parks. I mean, look, some people might think it's great. I can get a crab cake sandwich

00:38:07.220 at nationals park and a, and a white wine. And you know, you can probably ask them to roll

00:38:12.940 a lazy boy in there too for you and maybe even put a TV in your pocket. You know, most

00:38:16.800 people are watching the game on their iPhones anyway. Um, you know, I don't really care what

00:38:22.540 you drink or if you drink, but there's something about working. I just think there's something

00:38:28.260 about working within the confines of your environment, right? Not always changing the environment

00:38:33.740 to suit you. I mean, I've gone camping. We were talking about Boy Scouts earlier. I've

00:38:38.460 gone camping with Boy Scouts and some of these dads every year, they're bringing out like

00:38:41.880 these bigger and bigger grills, you know, and to the camp out. And I'm like, all right,

00:38:47.240 that's, that's cool. But I also like, I like enjoying the simplicity and, and the restrictions

00:38:53.540 of like a hot dog and a hobo pack over an open fire. You know, I mean, yeah, you can have

00:38:59.820 an awesome, um, you know, tailgate set up and eat ribeyes. That's cool. But, you know,

00:39:07.600 you know, you can also have a lazy boy and Buffalo wings at the movie theater now and

00:39:11.560 all this stuff. But like, you know, I don't need wine at the ballpark. I don't need to

00:39:15.460 bring my home to wherever I am. You know, sometimes it's good to restrict yourself to

00:39:20.300 what's available, you know, just, just, but ballparks should serve Cracker Jacks and hot

00:39:26.720 dogs. That's it. Right. You know, you want a crab cake sandwich, go to the restaurant across

00:39:31.560 the street. Right, right, right. No, that's, that's, I didn't know that was a thing. Um,

00:39:35.980 that's interesting. So the other one I liked is it's your welcome, not no problem. I love that

00:39:41.620 because my father-in-law, like that's his, he hates that. Like he hates when people tell him

00:39:45.100 no problem when they use something. It drives me crazy. It drives my wife crazy. It's one of my

00:39:49.360 peccadillos. You know, when you say no problem, it kind of assumes that maybe it could have been a

00:39:56.540 problem, you know, but I'm letting you off the hook. I mean, it's supposed to sound, I think

00:40:01.320 people who say it's supposed to sound gracious, but instead it just makes the, the thanker sound

00:40:08.000 like they've been an inconvenience, you know? And that is totally antithetical to what courtesy

00:40:14.280 is all about. Courtesy is about making the other person feel more comfortable always, you know?

00:40:22.320 So, you know, someone says, Oh, thank you. You don't say no problem. Meaning no problem to me,

00:40:30.580 this could have been a problem, but I'm allowing it not to be a problem. It's, it's, uh, it's,

00:40:36.120 it's the wrong approach, you know? So yes, one of my peccadillos, we're going to solve that one.

00:40:41.280 Solve it. We're going to get, we're going to get rid of it. Um, yeah,

00:40:44.080 one of those is there's no such thing as a girl's skateboard. I mean, my daughter taught

00:40:49.780 me that one the first day she saw my son's skateboard and hopped on it was like crushed

00:40:54.260 him around the park. And I was like, well, yeah, I don't, I don't need my Nerf gun or

00:41:00.660 my Lego set or my skateboard to be painted pink and called it skateboard. Like that's

00:41:06.340 insulting. That's insulting to me. That's insulting to my daughter. I mean, not to, I mean, look,

00:41:10.880 I try to be pretty easy going about all these like gender issues and stuff. Um, which given

00:41:15.780 what I'm about to put out into the world, I'm probably going to have to be, but you know,

00:41:20.260 some of these gender barriers, we are creating them now. Like they did, they didn't exist like 1.00

00:41:26.760 30, 40 years ago. Like there weren't like girl Legos. There was one skateboard, you know,

00:41:32.340 there was Legos. This stuff is new. This is marketing. You know, we've created more gender 1.00

00:41:38.480 barriers now than there need to be. I mean, literally I would not be surprised if there's

00:41:44.200 like a woman's car, you know, or here, check out this female TV. What does that even mean? 0.99

00:41:50.760 That is insulting to me. So yeah. You know, specifically there are no girls skateboards

00:41:55.680 universally. Like, like she can do anything my son can do. There's just not a boy, girl, 1.00

00:42:04.380 this, that, and the other, you know? Right. No. Yeah. I mean, the, the, the whole thing

00:42:09.520 has gotten kind of ridiculous, you know, with the men's body wash, right? It's like, it's 0.66

00:42:13.840 the same thing. It's just, it's like, it's green and comes in like a, a black bottle. It's

00:42:18.140 like, yeah, it's man. But it even, it's more ridiculous. Like, uh, you know, in the firearms 0.99

00:42:22.280 world, uh, like there's like pink guns, pink guns, it's a pink gun. Like what, wait, wait,

00:42:27.400 it's, it's just, it's a, it's a weapon. Like it's a fire. It doesn't have to be a pink,

00:42:31.120 you know, it doesn't have to be cute. It's a, you and me, we, we, we bear the responsibility

00:42:36.280 for some of this. I tell, I'm telling you 10 years ago when we both had this idea of

00:42:41.260 like, Hey, let's kind of like talk about, you know, manliness and masculinity and old

00:42:46.920 fashioned stuff. It wasn't a six months later that I was actually getting those calls from

00:42:52.760 Dove saying, Hey, do you want to blog about men's products? And we created this market

00:42:58.200 niche. I'm not saying you and I created this, but we were part of it. You're part of this

00:43:01.840 thing. And you know, we identified a market, you know, and yeah. So, but, but, uh, it's

00:43:08.260 ironic. It is, it is, it is funny. Uh, there's one I liked because the reason I like my wife 1.00

00:43:13.860 actually does this rule. It's, uh, visit a friend in the hospital, bring bad magazines.

00:43:19.960 Yes, I always do. My wife always does. I mean, look, we all have our guilty pleasures,

00:43:24.960 right. Our creature comforts, you know, and I think a real friend knows when to let you

00:43:30.480 indulge in those. That's, that's the reality. That's the reality. Yeah. Now, as I've stated

00:43:37.060 probably like a hundred times, I would never of course, dare to presume that there are any

00:43:42.380 universal truths about the female gender, but, but they do love bad magazines. They love trashy 1.00

00:43:51.860 magazines. Yeah. They love bad magazines. And so do I. And so do I, but this is like my women be 1.00

00:43:59.520 shopping moment. This is like, but they love bad magazines. Right. Us Weekly. Okay. Like I've

00:44:06.820 learned that too. Like when my wife was in the hospital, we had to take her to the hospital,

00:44:09.440 uh, during her last pregnancy, she had to be there for a few days. And I was like, okay, I, I, I know

00:44:15.360 she likes to get, read bad magazines while she's in the hospital. So I went out and got her some

00:44:20.260 Gatorade and us weekly. And all six magazines will have the same 35 long lens paparazzi shots,

00:44:27.920 but they all have just different captions. Yeah, exactly. It's funny. Um, so here's the

00:44:34.160 thing, uh, as a dad, um, who I run a site where I highlight great men from history and

00:44:41.140 I've got plenty of male role models that I can direct my son towards, right? Like Theodore

00:44:46.340 Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I find myself sometimes coming

00:44:50.620 short on women from history, you know, for obvious reasons that could serve as female role 1.00

00:44:56.360 models. Um, so I can name a few, but I'm curious, are there women from history that you have in mind 0.85

00:45:02.040 particular for your daughter? They could be from politics. They could be actresses. It could 1.00

00:45:06.200 be businesswomen. Like who, who are some role models that you have in mind for your daughter?

00:45:10.220 I do. And you know, that's, that's, you know, and I, and I include them in the book. I think

00:45:14.100 it's kind of fun to have these pictures of, of women that I either consider role models,

00:45:19.080 potential role models for my daughter or who have been role models to me, you know, honestly. Um,

00:45:25.120 uh, and, and whether that's because they have a particular skillset, whether they are particularly

00:45:30.160 brave or maybe they're just, you know, so, but the reality is, you're right. You know, there are not

00:45:36.380 as many famous women in general. And there's a reason for that. And that's because, 0.99

00:45:42.200 you know, basically women have been left out of the history books and they've been left out of the 1.00

00:45:48.020 newspapers. Um, you know, a lot of our role models, male role models are, uh, you know, heroes that

00:45:54.700 have achieved these like, you know, adventures or amazing feats of strength and bravery. Um, and they

00:46:01.340 got put in the newspaper. That's how they became role models and heroes. They were put in the

00:46:04.980 newspaper. I mean, if you think about it, history really is kind of the story of publicity,

00:46:09.760 you know? Um, and women were just not in the spotlight. They weren't allowed to be. Um, 0.94

00:46:16.200 so they weren't going to land on the front page. So yeah, we don't have a lot of female role models 1.00

00:46:20.660 through history. It's really hard to find them unless you like really like are scholarly and go back

00:46:25.140 and all this stuff. Um, and until you get to kind of this post suffragette era, you know,

00:46:30.380 in, in modern media, and then they start to pop up, but there are tons, you know, and it's been fun

00:46:35.720 looking through, not just kind of like contemplating it and trying to pick a few that I think are cool,

00:46:40.900 but also realizing like, Oh, these are people that have been role models in my life that I maybe didn't

00:46:44.840 even like kind of recognize. Um, you know, so, I mean, I'll give you a great example, like Sally

00:46:51.020 Rod, the astronaut, right? So my wife's hero, my wife's an aerospace engineer, wanted to be an 0.74

00:46:56.600 astronaut her whole life. Um, she turned me on to who Sally Ride was. And I mean, this is a woman

00:47:01.960 who succeeded in a field of science and engineering that even today is totally male dominated. Um, 0.85

00:47:10.400 and then you add like space exploration to it, you know, the right stuff. It's total men's club.

00:47:16.020 Um, and you know, and she became the first astronaut, first female astronaut. And you know, 0.98

00:47:21.980 that that's awesome. I, I, she's the kind of role model I want for my daughter. Um, they're,

00:47:28.200 they're athletes like Mia Hamm, who I think is awesome. Um, the old, uh, the old first professional 1.00

00:47:36.040 baseball league, um, for women, Annabelle Lefty Lee. I mean, here are people that are, you know,

00:47:42.400 I think they're role models, not because they could just play sport because they could play baseball,

00:47:46.040 but because they did something that people told them that they couldn't do. That's cool. That's

00:47:51.680 punk, you know, that's rock and roll. I think, you know, I don't doubt that a woman can pick up a, 0.99

00:47:58.080 a baseball or a sledgehammer or a discus or race car or whatever, and do anything we can do.

00:48:04.780 But I like the people that pick the stuff that someone says they can't, you know, um, another

00:48:11.020 great role model is Margaret Thatcher, you know, forget her politics. I don't care what about her 0.99

00:48:14.680 politics. I'm talking about someone who was able to succeed in a male dominated profession at such a

00:48:20.760 high profile. And, you know, she did this 40 years, 40 years ago, we still haven't had a female head of 1.00

00:48:27.700 state, you know, and she's doing it in England. That's, that's impressive. Um, those are a few,

00:48:33.240 but, you know, I have others that are not just like, it's not always about breaking down gender

00:48:38.660 barriers. You know, there's a lot of women that I really admire purely because of their talents, 0.92

00:48:43.300 you know, they're not doing it just like breaking, you know, some barrier that, but, you know, maybe

00:48:48.860 they're just really witty or really funny. Like, like, uh, Nora Ephron, you know, great writer,

00:48:54.100 uh, Carol Burnett, Elaine Strick, she talked about her, Tina Fey, or musicians like Big Mama Thornton,

00:49:00.200 you know, she wrote Hound Dog. And have you ever heard Big Mama Thornton records? I mean, they're,

00:49:04.380 they're as good as anything you'll ever hear. Blow Elvis and Buddy Holly away, you know,

00:49:08.820 Joni Mitchell. Um, these are women that they're not, they're not just women that take on male 1.00

00:49:15.940 characteristics, you know, like in doing something that only men used to do, but they're just

00:49:20.760 demonstrating a talent, a passion, commitment. Um, or they just, you know, maybe they just have

00:49:26.340 really good taste and I like people with good taste. So I've tried to, yeah, that's great. I love

00:49:33.080 this. All right. So like you did with the rules for my unborn son, at the end of the book, you give

00:49:36.560 a list of recommended reading and music suggestions for your daughter. So can you just fair share a few

00:49:42.900 of those and explain why you picked them? Yeah. I mean, this is really just my effort to control

00:49:47.560 the stereo in the car for the next 18 years. And again, like let's remind people, this is like

00:49:52.440 personal taste. Like sometimes people read this thing and they just like get infuriated because

00:49:56.860 they think like, yeah, because yeah, they think that this is supposed to be some kind of like

00:50:00.920 academic survey of the most important music of the last century, or like, this is the most

00:50:05.680 important feminist rock of the last 50 years. That is not it at all. This is like, so my kids 0.87

00:50:11.280 like the music that I like so we can go on road trips and I don't go crazy. This is about totally

00:50:17.900 trying to strong arm my taste onto theirs. And it's my own little personal way to do it. Um, but you

00:50:24.660 know, I did get a chance to pick a bunch of music that I thought my, not just what my daughter would

00:50:29.220 like, but that were like by women, um, women that I love music that I love, you know, cause 0.88

00:50:34.820 this is cool to see we have this luxury as, as men. We, if you ask a man, make your list of 50

00:50:41.400 great songs, you don't think about if it's a man or a woman, you know, because men are so used to 0.90

00:50:46.220 like kind of being the default gender, if you will, which is so ridiculous, but just because of that 1.00

00:50:51.600 traditional power structure, you know, I think it's good for a girl to be reminded of like, 0.81

00:50:56.560 you can do this, you know, don't let Rolling Stone top 50. And you see all these men guitarists up

00:51:03.240 there, like make you think you can't do this. So like, yeah, it was a chance to make a cool list of,

00:51:07.640 of female artists. Um, you know, I mean, some of it's the stuff that I listened to as a kid. I mean,

00:51:15.480 my mom playing Bobby Gentry for me or Dolly Parton. Um, like I said, Joni Mitchell earlier,

00:51:21.080 but also like, there's so many great artists from the seventies. Like I grew up listening to

00:51:25.580 Blondie, Chrissy Hine from the Pretenders. Um, you know, Joan Jett, that, that was like the

00:51:32.300 soundtrack to my whole youth, you know? And it wasn't until now when I was putting this list

00:51:37.440 together, I was like, as a kid, I didn't even think about the fact that these were women, but God, 0.99

00:51:41.440 that's awesome. There are awesome women in rock. Um, and even in hip hop and, and R&B, which is, 1.00

00:51:47.840 you know, I probably don't listen to it as much, but I did try to put some cool stuff in there.

00:51:51.540 Um, solo and stuff. So it's an awesome mix. You can play it at your, uh, next all women party, 0.96

00:51:57.460 or you can just play it at your next party because it's all good stuff. Do you have a Spotify list?

00:52:03.700 No, but I should make one. I'll make one tomorrow. That'd be cool. We can share it.

00:52:07.860 Well, Hey Walker, this has been a great conversation. We got, we got pretty heady.

00:52:11.440 In this one for a book that's sort of, you know, it was kind of fun, but we got some,

00:52:15.900 some heady topics, which I liked. Um, I know. Well, I, you know, I read, I read what you write

00:52:20.120 all the time and I know that, you know, it's hard to be the torchbearer for this, you know,

00:52:26.400 this kind of movement, if you will, that, that, uh, too many people might be too quick to judge

00:52:33.020 as being exclusive. But in fact, it is quite the opposite. And I really appreciate some of the

00:52:39.020 times that I've seen you write into, to your blog posts about, you know, this is not about

00:52:45.340 reinvigorating some antiquated, you know, power structure, you know, and, uh, and I think it's

00:52:53.440 good for you and me to, to kind of be the ones to stand up and make some of these points. I mean,

00:52:58.840 like I said at the beginning, the best way to make a man into a feminist is to give him a daughter. 1.00

00:53:03.480 You know, I, I want, I want to, I want the best for her and I, and I don't want her to

00:53:09.320 disadvantage. And, uh, and that's a lot of what this writing, this book was about.

00:53:14.500 Awesome. Well, Walker, where can the people learn more about your book?

00:53:18.540 Uh, I mean, the best way, this is just pop it into Google rules for my newborn daughter,

00:53:23.320 newborn daughter, because I wrote it after she was born. I had, I had to be fair. Um,

00:53:28.360 and, uh, I would go right to Google, which is going to take you to either my website,

00:53:34.480 which is great. You can read some nice blurbs about me and all that kind of stuff,

00:53:38.880 but probably best to just go right to the source and type it into Amazon. Um, book's going to be

00:53:44.200 available next week. You can pre-order it now. If you pre-order it now, it hits my first week sales,

00:53:50.060 which is awesome. If you ever, anybody out there is a self publisher or wants to know how you, uh,

00:53:54.920 jump up on those lists, uh, jack the pre-orders up. That's what I've learned. Um, yeah, but that's,

00:54:04.500 that's the best way. Cool. Walker Lamont. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure.

00:54:08.900 Brett, I always love talking to you. Um, keep going with your doing. I'm really, uh, I'm really

00:54:14.120 loving the site. It's, uh, it's great. And thanks for having me. Appreciate it. All right. Talk to you

00:54:19.760 later. My guest today was Walker Lamont. His latest book is rules for my newborn daughter. You can

00:54:24.520 find it on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere. You can find out more information about Walker's

00:54:28.160 work at walkerlamont.com. Also make sure to check out the show notes for the show at aom.is slash

00:54:34.080 Lamont. Well, that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast. For more manly tips

00:54:41.400 and advice, make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com. And if

00:54:45.120 you enjoy this show and have got something out of it, please give us a review on iTunes or Stitcher.

00:54:48.980 I'd really appreciate it. As always, thank you for your continued support. And until next time,

00:54:53.020 this is Brett McKay telling you to stay manly.

The Art of Manliness - May 16, 2016

#201： Rules for Your Newborn Daughter

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