#201： Rules for Your Newborn Daughter
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode of the Art of Manliness podcast, host Brett McKay sits down with author Walker Lamont to discuss his new book, Rules for My Newborn Son: Etiquette for My Son and His Newborn Daugher.
Transcript
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Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. So if you're
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a dad or plan on being a dad at some point in your life, you probably got some principles,
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some rules, some advice that you want to pass on to your children so they can grow up to
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be well-adjusted, useful adults. My guest today has done that like most dads have, but he actually
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put them in a book and published it. His name is Walker Lamont. I had him on the podcast back in
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2009, discuss his popular book, Rules for My Unborn Son, where he lays out style advice,
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relationship advice, just rules on etiquette that he hopes his son will follow. His son's now eight
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years old and we're going to talk about how those rules are going, the implementation of those rules
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have gone so far in Walker's life and his son's life. But Walker's also got a new book out called
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Rules for My Newborn Daughter, where he talks about the rules that he wants his daughter to follow.
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And so today on the podcast, we're going to discuss some of these rules. We're going to discuss
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fatherhood. What's it like fathering a daughter? How's it different from fathering a son? We're
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going to discuss relationships advice from fathers to daughters, discuss champagne at baseball parks.
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This is baseball parks. This is something new I've heard about. And apparently I think this is an
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apostasy to baseball. Do not do this. We're going to discuss why you shouldn't drink champagne at
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baseball parks. Getting a lot more fun stuff. So without further ado, Walker Lamont and Rules for
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My Newborn Daughter. And after the show, make sure to check out the show notes at
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aom.is slash Lamont for links to resources we mentioned through the podcast.
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Thank you, Brett. I appreciate having me. It's great.
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Yeah. You were actually one of my very first podcast guests back in 2009.
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I feel like we're like the OG. I'm a little embarrassed how long it's been since that first
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book came out. But no, that was great. That was the early days. We were pioneers, right?
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Yeah. So yeah, we had you on the podcast back in 2009 to talk about your book, Rules for My Unborn
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Son. And that was a book, it started out as an online project, as a blog where you kind of wrote
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these rules for your yet-to-be-born son. And you had your son. His name's Arthur, right?
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Correct. Yeah. Arthur's eight now, which is crazy.
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So how has your family changed since then? And how has fathering changed as your kids have
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gotten older and you've added more to the family?
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That's a good question. One of the reasons that I wrote the book to begin with is because
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I knew that as soon as the kids started coming, it was going to be really hard to stick to all
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those good intentions. So part of the plan was, let's get this stuff down now because I know that
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it's going to get crazy. And of course it did. So Arthur came along. A couple of years later,
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we ended up having our daughter. Our family moved overseas. We've been overseas for a while. We now
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have a third child. Our family's growing. It's crazier by the day. It's awesome. As predicted,
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things have gotten crazy. You get the mayhem of infants and toddlers and it gets a little harder
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to keep your cool and stick to all those parenting rules. But I've had to revise my policy on shorts.
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Oh yeah, I was right. One of the rules was no shorts.
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Yeah. That's also maybe a factor of living in the desert now. But once you've let your kid go to
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school in a Batman costume, you pretty much have to learn how to be a little more flexible
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with them, with yourself. I think before I had my first son, I was imagining my kid wearing a tie
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and reading a newspaper in kindergarten. And now I'm just psyched if he has on both of his shoes
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when we leave the house. But I still have the book. The book is there on the shelf. It's like this
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written proof of my good intentions. It's like the constitution. It's like you pull it down every once
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in a while when you're completely lost. Wait, I had a good idea in here at one point.
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So yeah, you've had to revise some things as the rubber met the road with the rules. Yeah,
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I remember the no shorts thing we talked about. That was one of the more controversial ones.
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If you were just up in arms. Once you become a dad, you don't have as much free time to go
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peacocking around in your three-piece suit. But I've tried to stick to my uniform. You try to stick to
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as best you can. But you let yourself off the hook when you fall off. But at the time, I really
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only thought I was going to have to write that one book. Right. And that would be it. It would be easy
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to follow. It was just like a lark. It was a fun little project. It was almost like a journaling
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project that I had started online. And then it picked up steam. Yeah, it picked up steam.
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It turned into something bigger. Yeah, I remember one of the other controversial rules was
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no wheelie luggage. No wheelie luggage. You know what? I stuck to it. You stuck to it. You stuck
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to that one. I got three kids and still no wheelie luggage. And let me tell you, it's brutal.
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It's brutal. Especially living overseas when we're hauling around eight army size duffel bags. But
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I'm sticking to it. I like how you've got ideals. You're sticking to it. Yeah. So rules for my
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on-board son were rules for your son. So they're kind of geared towards boys, men. Rules for my
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on-board daughter is about advice from a father to a daughter. But before we get into like specific
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rules, I'd like to know, you know, what's your overarching goal with your daughter? Right. I
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mean, I think a lot of guys, they think about, you know, being a dad to a son. I want to play catch
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with them. I want to teach them this cool stuff. I want to help them be like learning all these skills
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and be, you know, useful and blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, I don't think they spend too much time
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thinking about like, what do I, what does it mean to be like a father to a daughter? So I'm curious,
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as you came up with these rules for your daughter, advice for your daughter, you know, what kind of
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woman do you want her to grow up to be? Well, you know, it is tricky for a lot of guys to think about
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this idea of, you know, a father raising a girl, because, you know, there's initially that fear of
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what do I know about being a girl? You know, what right do I have to tell her to do things? Um,
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uh, but you know, in an ideal world, and when I, when you think about it in theory, I want
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my daughter to be a good person. I want her to be independent and intelligent and courteous,
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uh, brave and adventurous and all those great things, well-read and well-dressed,
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just the same things I wanted out of my son. Um, I mean, at the heart of it, you, you want your kid
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to be happy. Uh, I, I think being happy is rooted in, um, being confident. You know, I want my kids
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to be confident. I, and I don't think that means, I don't think that's achieved necessarily by telling
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them they're great all the time. It doesn't mean you say, Hey, you're smart, you're fast, you're pretty.
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You know, I think it's about giving them specific skills, you know, or putting them in a position
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to learn these skills themselves that fosters a self-confidence. Um, you know, I, the, the gag
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of the book has always been this list of do's and don'ts, these rules, but that, you know,
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that's always really just been a hook. I mean, this is, it's just a guide to a particular approach
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to life. And you talk about this a lot on your blog, which is, uh, a rich life about embracing
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challenges and, uh, acquiring skills and, you know, rejecting that path of least resistance.
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You know, um, I mean, that could mean, you know, it could mean learning to change a tire. It could
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mean setting a dinner table. I mean, cause you know, and then this day and age, I mean, those
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things are, those things are hard. They're easily outsourced, you know, but I want my daughter
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just like I want my son to learn them, not because she necessarily needs to, but because
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it will make her happier. I think it'll make her more confident and more interesting. Um,
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I was reading something on your blog the other day. Am I allowed to still call it a blog? I feel
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like it's bigger than that. Yeah. I still call it a blog. I still call it like, what do I do? I'm a
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blogger. All right. That's what I do. Okay. I mean, it's, it's shorthand. Um, you know,
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you talk about how we live in this land of plenty and, and kind of in recent years, this
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idea that we've kind of devalued the, the goal of growing up, um, or just in this land
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of plenty, it feels like, uh, men and women both have this temptation that to not do as
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much. Um, but I want my daughter to do more, you know, I want her to travel and cook and
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eat, read and vote and build stuff. And, you know, it, it's not necessarily out of a need
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for survival anymore, but it is about this need to have a rich life. So, I mean, my goals
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for my daughter are the same as for my son. Um, you know, resist the path of least resistance.
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I'm curious, uh, has your approach to fathering changed, uh, because you have a daughter. So I've
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talked to a lot of guys that said that it did like the way they approach fatherhood changed
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when they, when they had a daughter compared to when they had a son or for you, is it pretty
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much the same? Um, you know, before you have kids and when you think about having a son,
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you know, most guys, uh, they kind of envision their son as going to be like this new and improved
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version of themselves. Right. You know, like, yeah, I'm going to teach you everything I know
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and I'm going to correct all my own mistakes. Right. Like the thing I remember was like, yeah,
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my kids are going to just play with wooden blocks. They're not going to watch TV. They're
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going to use their imaginations. Yeah. Every hobby that I always meant to pick up, like I'm
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going to like teach them immediately. And, and that's cool. That's, that's what being a dad's
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all about. And then you have your kid and you realize that they're totally their own person.
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And I mean, there's, they can be so different from you. They're like strangers sometimes. I mean,
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you know, my son is my flesh and blood and, but he could be a guy just ran into in a bar. We're so
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different sometimes. So, you know, the, it's not, and it's not just now about like making him a
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version of yourself when you have a daughter, it, it only amplifies that feeling. Um, she has these
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unique challenges that, um, that we can't even begin to understand. Um, you know, so I think having
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that daughter, it does teach you to take it a little easier on yourself, uh, and your expectations
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about kind of, you know, being a parent, what you're going to teach these people. Um, I mean,
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cause you know, when you're parenting, it's, it's a lot of, it's about projecting your, your own need
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for self-improvement on them. Um, but, uh, but, but having a daughter's it's, it's wonderful. You know,
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I mean, it's, it's a, having a daughter is like the best way to turn any man into a feminist, you
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know? Um, and, but, you know, will, does my approach to parenting change a little bit? Um,
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it's a good question because, you know, I, I, I really stick to this idea that I've always thought
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all the advice I put, even in the first book, you know, is all pretty general, gender neutral,
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you know? I mean, you know, yes, the first book was a conversation between a father and a son and
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there's a lot of, you know, guy imagery and there's a lot of, um, you know, some, it was pretty male
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centric or at least if not in tone, whatever. But, but I always kind of thought like, you know, girls,
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this, this is for girls too. Um, but then my wife kind of pointed out, she's like, yeah, but then
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there's this stuff about neckties and baseball and, you know, maybe, maybe girls need their own book.
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And I started thinking about that. I was like, you know, is that a good thing that girls need
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their own book, that they should have their own rules? Or should I, you know, dismiss that as,
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as, you know, perpetrating some gender divide that doesn't exist? I mean, these are all questions you
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can kind of debate forever, but in reality, girls and boys are different. You realize that as soon as
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they're born, they're wonderfully different. They're hilariously different, but not just because
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they're boys and girls, because they're different people. You know, I mean, my, my daughter is just
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very different from my son. Um, so, you know, are the, the things I'm teaching my daughter any
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different than the ones I'm teaching my son? No. I mean, when we go outside and practice putting up
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the tent in the backyard, she's there too, hammering in steaks. You know, if we're planting veggies in
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the garden, they're both there. These aren't girl and boy skills, um, learning to sail or play the piano,
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you know, you know, and my daughter's super competitive. So she wants to be right there
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with my son. Um, I don't think any of these skills are necessary. I don't think any of these
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things are gender specific. I, I, I'm strongly feel that, um, setting a table or writing thank you
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notes or wrenching a car, you know, every boy and girl should know how to do this. But I mean,
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that is not to say that they are the same, that boys and girls are the same or will or ever that
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they'll have the same skillset. I mean, they're going to have different skills because they have
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different interests. You know, my son's going to be into camping, my daughter's into sports. Um,
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so you do have to adapt a little bit for each kid, not because they're a boy and a girl,
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but because they're different people. Right. Does that make any sense?
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That makes, that makes perfect sense. No, that makes perfect sense. It's the same with,
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Leah, with my kids. Uh, my daughter, like she likes to do the stuff that, you know,
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me and Gus do. She's right there with us. Rough and tumble, roughing, rough housing,
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out going outside, doing, you know, monkeying around in the, my garage gym. She's right there.
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And that could change. Yeah, it could change. I mean, these kids are going to hit puberty
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and they're going to have all kinds of different things going on their mind and bodies and,
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and their interests might change and I might have to adapt what skill sets I'm teaching them,
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you know, and outsource some of that stuff to their mom or whatever. But, um,
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but you know, well, I'll let you, I'll let you keep going because it is a tricky issue and we'll get
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to it, I think. Yeah. Well, I mean, and then like speaking of, so like a lot of the advice,
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like you said, and the rules for my, my younger daughter, I was reading is like, Oh, this is a
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nice reminder for me. Right. Yeah. I should write thank you notes or I, uh, shouldn't apologize for
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other people all the time. Right. And that's just like good common, like how to live a good life.
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But there is advice in there that's geared towards girls, um, or women in general. So I'm curious as
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a dude, as a guy, how did you approach some of the more gendered advice that's, you know,
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maybe applicable just to girls? I mean, did you have to like get your wife in on to help you? And
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like, you know what, what, what, what do I tell my daughter? What are we going to tell our daughter
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about these sorts of things? Yes, of course. And my wife has been a great resource. And, but
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you know, and look, I was raised by women. I mean, I, my life, I've been surrounded by all these
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wonderful, creative, smart, intelligent women. And, you know, so I do feel like I have this body
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of institutional knowledge that I kind of am allowed to pass down to my daughter. But so it
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goes back to this, like kind of main problem I had. One of the reasons I didn't do this book
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immediately is because I did have this nagging question of whether or not as a man, I had
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a right. Was it even appropriate for me to be doling out advice to a woman, to a young woman?
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Yeah. Right. And that's like this become this buzzword. And, and, and I hesitated a long time
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about doing it. And then, you know, if I want my daughter to be this strong, independent, brave
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woman, who's like unafraid to challenge power structures and gender stereotypes. And then the
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first thing I do is hand her this book of rules written by a white 40 year old man. I mean,
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it doesn't sound like the best way to start out this journey. Right. Um, but you know,
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I do think that daughters want to hear from their dads. We have institutional knowledge
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as an older person. Um, and they don't just want necessarily, uh, our approval or a nice
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well done or whatever. They want ideas. They want advice like any kid does. I mean, boys and
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girls are so thirsty for this institutional knowledge. Um, so I think as dads, we can,
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we can confidently say that we do have a right and we have a duty to tell our daughters what
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we expect of them. Um, I don't think we should be ashamed to do that or nervous to do that. Um,
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I think we're allowed to share with them what we know about life and how to make the best of
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it. Um, you know, that said, I had a system of checks and balances. My wife being the best one
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of all, you know, my wife is a trained airspace engineer. She's a foreign service officer. She's
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works harder than anyone I know. She's graceful. She's funny. She's like the archetype, you know,
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she's the role model. And, um, if I could have, if I could have gotten her to write this book,
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I would have, but she's too busy earning a living for the family. So, but she had the veto power,
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you know, she was my checks and balances. Um, the, the reality is, is, and you know, this Brett and,
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and I know that cause I know that you deal with a lot of these issues on your blog all the time.
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Um, this, you know, the, the gender identities and, and traditional power structures and stuff.
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But I really believe that if you've lived a life in which you've respected women and you've kept
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their company and you've admired their talents, then even as a man, you are qualified to pass on
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some of that institutional knowledge, even down to a girl. Um, there's plenty of stuff I've learned
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from my mom and my grandmother and my sister and my own role models, many of which are women that I
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want to pay forward. Um, you know, yes, it will come through the filter of a man, you know, and
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whatever kind of historical baggage I carry with me, maybe not without even knowing it,
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but it's also just coming through the lens of being an old, older person or being an American
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or whatever. Um, you can't kind of avoid that lens, but you know, I look, I'm, I'm not trying
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to maintain the male power structure or male privilege. I'm, uh, by giving my daughter a book
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of rules. I mean, I, I have no interest as a father in making things harder for my own daughter
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to put her at a disadvantage. I want to break down the walls for her or, you know, or better yet,
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just get out of the way and let her do it for herself, you know, give her the skills so she can
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do it. Um, so yeah, mansplaining perhaps, but I think it's just, I think it's just a dad giving
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advice to your, your daughter. Yeah. I think that's, that's what it is. And I think it comes
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from the best of intentions and, and, uh, you're trying to do what's best for. Um, but I mean,
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the other kind of, some people would say problematic, you know, quotation marks, um,
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aspect of rules for my unborn son and rules for my unborn daughter. And I even get this
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with the art of madness. It's got like the whole vintage retro vibe to it. And I'm kind
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of hearkening back to this, you know, traditional stereotypes of masculinity. And like, you know,
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you do that with your book and it's, I love with both of them books, but I love it. I mean,
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it looks great. You have these great vintage photos of, you know, starlets and like, you know,
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famous women, you know, Margaret Thatcher and, uh, Eleanor Roosevelt and, uh, I guess Graham
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who owned the newspaper, the Washington post. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and like it's, it's got this
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old fashioned feel to it, but it's not stodgy. So you've been able to somehow combined, you
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know, some traditional gender advice for gals on, you know, being a classy lady, a dame, a
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classy broad, but with advice on being independent and assertive and brave, um, that bucks
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antiquated gender stereotypes. And I'm sure this has to like drive people bonkers. Cause
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like they either want it like, okay, no, you gotta either do it, you know, the
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traditional thing all the way, or you have to like go like this way. So it's
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gonna, I mean, look, I, I know you've dealt with this, uh, cause like you said, the
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whole vintage aesthetic of your site of my book, you know, it was very all current at
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the time to seven years ago or whatever. Um, you know, but people just kind of assume
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that, that we're just going to be blindly nostalgic about the past.
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Exactly. And, um, you know, with my first book, um, there was of course that knee jerk
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reaction from boy, from boys and girls, men and women, you know, so some of the bros
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out there, I just assumed that this was, you know, a book just praising everything about
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what was old fashioned. And, you know, oh, that means we can, the good old days when we
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can assert our male privilege and all that stuff. Um, and there were plenty of women that
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looked at my blog or looked at my book, saw maybe the title, saw one rule and just
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bristled at the idea that there were going to be any rules or skills that only pertain
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to boys. You know, it felt really exclusive. And, you know, I think with the last book
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and with this one, I think if you just read it, you know, hopefully just see that, you
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know, most of all, you know, these rules can, most of them can be applied to boys and
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girls or gay or straight or whatever, but mostly, you know, look, it's harmless fun
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mostly, but I, and I, I know that there's, you know, the outrage police will probably
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jump on this one just like they did the last one. You know, this is a man telling a woman
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what to do. Um, but if you really, if you really read it, it's pretty harmless. It's
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hopefully it's a little funny. It's, I think it's practical at times, but you know, it's
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important to remember not to get carried away. I mean, this is a very little book. It's just
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a trifle really. It's not a manifesto. Um, you know, these rules are about developing
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skills and, and becoming self-reliant and, and, and that includes not taking shit from
00:22:15.220
your brother or any other person. So, you know, I know empowerment is a bit of a buzzword
00:22:20.920
these days, but I would characterize a lot of the rules in this book as empowering, you
00:22:25.580
know, um, I think what it's, I think, sorry, I mean, Oh, go ahead. I was just
00:22:30.680
going to say, uh, you know, some of the skills, some of the stuff in there is going
00:22:34.500
to sound old fashioned, you know, and, and because of that, just like on your blog, I
00:22:39.780
think there are so many skills that are being lost that just so many skills just
00:22:45.340
sound old fashioned. And so because of that for the boys book, it was fine. Everything
00:22:51.780
about old fashioned was good because it kind of played into the male, like need to go
00:22:58.060
back to those good old days or whatever for a book for girls. It's different because old
00:23:02.220
fashioned is tainted with this memory of an era of, of male privilege or when women had
00:23:09.240
less opportunities, you know? And so it is tricky. Um, you know, but that, that doesn't
00:23:16.480
mean that these skills are necessarily invalid. You know, if I teach my daughter to cook a
00:23:21.640
pie, I'm not telling her, you know, you must cook pies, you know, get in the kitchen and
00:23:28.620
cook a pie. Yeah. I'm just giving her a skill, you know, and that gives her the choice to
00:23:32.960
cook a pie or not to cook a pie. If I teach her to set a proper dinner table or hem a dress,
00:23:38.480
I'm not saying that she has to play, you know, suburban hostess her whole life or even wear a
00:23:44.180
dress. No more than if I'm, you know, if I teach my son to change a tire, I'm telling
00:23:49.380
him he has to be a mechanic, you know, the skills give you choice and choice is power,
00:23:55.460
you know? I mean, so I think the big takeaway is that I don't think that there are gender
00:24:01.340
specific skills. Um, right. And, but even when you talk about gender differences, you know,
00:24:07.160
cause like you talk about, you know, the etiquette, right. Uh, you know, if, um, if, you know,
00:24:11.580
one of the advice is if a man offers you his seat, take it. And now some women would bristle
00:24:16.240
at that. But I mean, I think, I think what you're doing is, and I think we try to do this
00:24:19.740
too, is like under, like, it's like appreciating differences between men and women, um, and just
00:24:25.400
having fun with it and like celebrating those differences and not seeing these sort of gestures
00:24:29.920
as, uh, acts of subjugation or submission or whatever, but just sort of like, Hey, we're
00:24:37.000
men and women. We're different. We got these sort of rituals to, to, you know, talk about
00:24:42.480
that and let's, let's celebrate that. And rituals is a good word and, you know, rituals and customs
00:24:47.720
and, you know, sometimes you can't look at rituals and customs. So literally they become kind of
00:24:54.240
symbolic gestures of what you just said, you know, recognizing our differences and celebrating
00:24:59.660
those, you know, as far as the idea of like being a lady, you know, and, and, you know,
00:25:07.600
it's a little like the idea of a gentleman. Um, these, these words are so saddled with baggage
00:25:12.860
about chivalry and, and, you know, or as for a lady, maybe like female submission and, but it's not,
00:25:20.160
I mean, these it's, this is about being a kind, intelligent person, you know, and those,
00:25:26.520
some may say antiquated gestures of a gentleman or a lady, um, you know, they can kind of represent
00:25:35.040
whatever you want them to represent. If you're going into it as a cynic, they, they may represent,
00:25:39.440
uh, uh, bad days or whatever, but you know, you can also look at it as this is a symbol or a custom
00:25:46.760
of that represents my effort to be kind, generous, you know, well-mannered. Um, you know, it's,
00:25:56.320
it's tricky. I'm kind of like what I'm doing, I think with you is I'm like building up my argument
00:26:01.360
for the inevitable onslaught. It's going to happen. Hey, which I've already gotten, which is fine. I
00:26:06.520
mean, it's great. It's, it, it gives me a chance to think about this stuff. Honestly, when I wrote
00:26:10.900
the first book, I never even gave a thought to, you know, being very overtly inclusive to kind of
00:26:18.700
non-binary sexualities and things. And at first I kind of felt myself backpedaling about worrying
00:26:25.600
about, Oh man, was I, you know, I, was I sounding too like heteronormative and all that stuff,
00:26:30.400
but it was good. It got me thinking about, you know, well, wait a second, these skills work if
00:26:34.940
my kid's gay or not, I don't care. You know? So these, it's a good conversation to have and I'm,
00:26:39.880
I'm fine having it, you know? Right. Right. Um, so let's kind of get more, some more of the rules.
00:26:47.560
What I thought was interesting. There was a lot of relationship advice, um, in there. And I thought
00:26:51.840
that was great. Cause I think like dads like need to talk to their daughters about relationships
00:26:56.220
because like dads are men and their daughters will be encountering men. Um, so I'm curious,
00:27:03.140
like how has, you know, being a man colored the dating advice or relationship advice that you've,
00:27:09.760
you know, you've put in the book? Well, I mean, you have to, you have to fight your instinct to
00:27:15.000
make every rule in the book, basically like, don't go out with him. Right. Exactly. That's kind of
00:27:19.800
the thing I was getting is like, it was the vibe was like, I think like Walker had his shotgun out
00:27:23.800
cleaning it. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's, it's funny. It's like, you know, a dad giving relationship
00:27:29.840
advice to his daughter, it has its challenges. I mean, you, your instinct is to go into protective
00:27:34.620
mode with all your kids, but with your daughter, I don't know, maybe that's, it's evolution or
00:27:39.300
whatever, but you know, you want to just talk about, you can't date that guy and, and they're all
00:27:43.600
after one thing. Trust me, I've been there. I'm a teenager, you know? Um, but I do think
00:27:49.720
it's important and it was important for me to get past that. And, and, and it took some help
00:27:53.640
from some very smart female friends of mine, um, to point out that it's time to get past that. It's
00:28:00.460
not, it's not really that charming anymore to play, you know, uh, overprotective dad there.
00:28:09.380
Yeah. Because, you know, I'm all for protecting my kid's safety. I mean, that it's not an issue of
00:28:14.640
that. It's, it's about, if parenting is about giving your kid the skills and tools to make
00:28:19.040
their own smart decisions, then you kind of have to, you have to do it and then trust what
00:28:27.220
you've taught them. And to, to be too protective is, it's a little weird. It's a little like
00:28:33.020
over-sexualizing your own kid. And so you don't want to muck around too much in her love
00:28:37.800
life, um, saying, well, I don't trust you, you know, and all that stuff. But, um, you
00:28:43.620
know, so you give them these tools, um, and you give them these rules, right. And, uh, and
00:28:51.320
you, you hope for the best. Um, it doesn't mean I might, uh, you know, come to the door
00:28:57.000
with a fierce look in my eye one day, or if the kid doesn't come to the door and knock
00:29:00.800
on the, bring the doorbell or honks his car, I can, you know, hope that she makes the right
00:29:07.200
choice. But, um, look, my, look, my daughter's going to be a kick-ass, like intelligent, fun
00:29:13.760
loving woman, confident, great taste. She's not going to need my help to like fend off
00:29:18.340
the barbarians of the gay, you know, she's going to do it herself. Right. Right. That's
00:29:22.260
the point. That's the point. So, I mean, like, I thought one of the pieces of relationship
00:29:26.640
advice was, it was funny, made me chuckle and actually kind of like, yeah, okay, that makes
00:29:30.600
sense. But like, it was a beware of men who cry easily. So why should your daughter
00:29:36.760
watch out for men who cry? What is it about men who cry easily that your, your daughter
00:29:41.240
should be like, Oh, I don't know about that. Well, I should make, I should make this clear
00:29:44.820
is that I'm a crier. I mean, I, I'm a crier. I'm the guy getting misty watching like Folgers
00:29:50.160
commercials. And, uh, so way more times than I want to admit, I have blubbered in front of
00:29:56.240
my wife, in front of a bartender. I'm not proud. So that's right. Well, Winston Churchill
00:30:01.260
was a crier. So you're in good company. This is one of those rules where it's like, you know,
00:30:05.860
you're hoping to correct past mistakes. Um, but look, there's nothing wrong with having
00:30:10.060
a good cry. But what I, what I, I think what I mean by this rule is that, you know, be wary
00:30:15.420
of people who are men in particular, who may think that showing this type of outward emotion,
00:30:22.420
like volunteering it really easily is somehow a demonstration of depth or sensitivity or
00:30:28.700
intelligence. And I think because I've been there again, if I'm going to give this advice
00:30:34.160
to my daughter, you know, in my experience, it's a tactic as much as anything else and, um, not a
00:30:41.040
very handsome one. Uh, and, and, um, also I will point out, um, that this rule came from my wife.
00:30:49.900
Um, I, uh, yeah. So it shows you, uh, what she thinks about me, obviously, since I'm the client,
00:30:58.240
but, uh, but I, I showed it to her and she agreed wholeheartedly. So, uh, all right. Yeah. So,
00:31:03.880
yeah, I, I agree with you. I think like a lot of people who use, who cry all the time at a drop of
00:31:07.600
the head. Yeah. It is a tactic more. It is, you know, or at least it's kind of like, I don't know,
00:31:12.220
it just always, it strikes me as a little, it can strike me as a little weird. It, you just have to be a
00:31:16.520
little, a little wary, but also remember that so many of these rules are, are, can be a little
00:31:21.700
tongue in cheek. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Like, like we learned with rules from my unborn son. Uh,
00:31:26.640
sometimes people will take these things way too serious. Yeah. I mean, actually I posted the other
00:31:31.180
day and sometimes I really post things like they're quite literal. I'm not going to give you the
00:31:35.580
example right now. Cause it inflared like this huge conversation online, but sometimes I mean them
00:31:40.320
quite literally. And then some people will read them like there's some proverb, you know, like,
00:31:44.120
and which is really flattering, but I'm also like, no, I actually mean, you know, roll the
00:31:49.680
dough really flat or whatever, you know, don't, don't squeeze out the juices on the burger. I'm
00:31:54.480
just like, no, that's very literal advice. You're like, you know, so. Yeah, no, I think that was
00:31:59.640
like, uh, you know, Hemingway had a problem with that. Like the people like read too much into the
00:32:04.160
old man in the sea and he's like, no, it's just a, what was he hunting? Like a shark or a fish? It was
00:32:08.800
just a fish. Yeah. I just mean the bottle is green. I really just, I really do. So let's,
00:32:14.100
talk about some of the, some of my favorite quips from the book and. Yeah, good. I love hearing
00:32:18.180
about it because I, I, you know, it's, it's hard to pick your own favorites. Right. So like when I
00:32:23.200
liked it, I said earlier, like if you make it a habit for apologizing for other people, it will
00:32:28.640
always, it's you who will always be sorry. Yes. I mean, it's going to drive you crazy your whole
00:32:35.700
life too. Right. We have, you know, we, I don't know if it's just like, you know, I can only speak
00:32:41.880
for the people alive today. Right. I don't know what it was like a hundred years ago, but it does
00:32:45.780
seem like we enable so many people's bad behavior because we're just afraid of confrontation where
00:32:52.060
we don't think it's our place to like, you know, change another person, especially people that are
00:32:56.760
close to us to tell them that they're wrong or tell them that they're acting poorly. Um, you know,
00:33:02.300
you're acting boorishly or whatever. Um, you know, so we end up apologizing for our friends or our
00:33:09.120
spouses, but we all have our own problems and struggles. You don't want to carry the burden of
00:33:14.840
someone else's too. You know, you gotta, you gotta let, and, and obviously this is kind of like a
00:33:21.120
universal advice, but you know, it can be a very specific advice for a woman too, in a relationship,
00:33:26.080
because we know that a very common problem is, uh, you know, uh, women that, that have to tolerate
00:33:34.240
less than savory characters in their life. And, you know, they're working hard to keep a relationship
00:33:39.740
together and end up apologizing for someone when really you might just need to pick up and haul ass.
00:33:46.220
Right. Exactly. Yeah. Another one in there, beware the ladies who lunch.
00:33:49.900
Um, that is a hat tip to one of my favorite women in the world, Elaine Stretch, a great Broadway and,
00:33:58.900
and film actress who you may know. You probably recognize her because she did some cameos on 40
00:34:05.160
Rock late in her life. Um, but she, this was her signature song. It comes from, uh, Stephen Sondheim's
00:34:12.020
play Company. Um, and she's really one of my idols. I had, I, back when I was living in New York,
00:34:17.260
I had the chance to work with her cause I was working on a documentary with, about her with
00:34:21.280
D.A. Penny Baker. And so I got to meet her and she's this tough old bird and she's hysterical and
00:34:27.860
ruthless, but she's also really sensitive and she's so talented. And, um, anyway, she, this was her
00:34:34.320
signature song and it's so scathing and it's all about women who make this big fuss about their lives
00:34:41.340
with like the charity events and the lunches and the brunches and the martini tennis lessons.
00:34:46.260
And, uh, you know, and there's, and they're, they're always busy and, um, you know, there's
00:34:53.340
nothing wrong with any of those things. There's nothing wrong with these women, but you know,
00:34:58.060
it's about for this song, it's about women who fill their lives to make up for some kind of deeper
00:35:03.480
emptiness. You know, you can, you can be busy and still bored and boring. And, uh, and, uh, it's,
00:35:10.460
it's very tricky to avoid that, uh, that group, but again, a bit tug in cheek, but, uh, one of my
00:35:16.220
favorite songs, by the way, uh, if any of you gentlemen out there close to Spotify and want to
00:35:21.180
download some Broadway show tunes, which I know you're all like eager to do, uh, the ladies who lunch
00:35:28.040
from company is a great one. It's so funny. I'll check that out. All right. Um, you got another
00:35:34.920
one here. Uh, if you choose not to own a TV, keep it to yourself. God, don't you just hate it when
00:35:40.900
people say that? Oh, I don't even, I don't even own a TV. Yeah, I know. It's, uh, they talk about,
00:35:46.120
Oh, I got, I've gotten so much, I get so much more done. Yeah. I mean, it's a humble brag, right?
00:35:51.440
It's, it's, it's so much more charming and interesting to embrace your guilty pleasures, you know,
00:35:57.420
be self-deprecating. Like in that situation, I'd be like, Oh, I have a TV and I'm obsessed with it.
00:36:03.160
And I am not ashamed to admit that I stay up till four in the morning to binge watch this
00:36:07.360
particular show or whatever, you know? I mean, this, this is one of those rules where like,
00:36:12.000
yes, it's about TV, but it is about something a little bigger. I mean, we need to remember that,
00:36:16.200
you know, cocktail parties are not job interviews. You know, a conversation with someone is not just
00:36:23.460
you nodding your head and waiting for your turn to talk about yourself or your story. Um, you know,
00:36:30.920
it, your job is not to constantly pitch yourself. Um, and, and I think it's a habit that's really
00:36:37.880
common these days. And I don't know if it's because, you know, more people are out there
00:36:42.580
self-employed or trying to be an entrepreneur or, but there's this, you know, we've really kind of
00:36:48.300
glorified the pitch, you know, whether it's Silicon Valley or Hollywood, it's like everyone's pitching
00:36:53.740
something or themselves. And, uh, it makes for like the most boring cocktail conversation in the
00:36:59.800
world when everyone is just talking about themselves, you know, this is how great I am.
00:37:05.040
And they might couch it by saying like, Oh, I'm so tired and busy. Yeah. Because, you know,
00:37:12.120
I'm finishing this article from the New Yorker or, you know, it's like these humble brags. And I think
00:37:16.440
not on any TV is one of them. You know, it's like, I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on in
00:37:20.800
breaking bad. I only read the New York times. You know, it's like, well, good for you. I'm
00:37:26.520
going to go talk to someone who watched the last Kardashian. Cause then we can have a laugh.
00:37:31.380
Right. Right. And it's the same thing with like, not like, it's not only that, like if you're
00:37:34.660
into paleo, if you're do CrossFit or you do yoga, I'm sure there's a million examples.
00:37:40.300
A million examples. Just like, keep it to yourself. Uh, yeah.
00:37:43.060
Is that a GMO chicken nugget? Whatever. Um, so this is what I thought was like, you don't drink
00:37:52.680
wine at the ballpark first. Is this a thing? Do people drink wine at the ballpark?
00:37:56.900
Have you been to one of the new fancy parks like nationals park or, you know, they've been redoing
00:38:01.640
a lot of parks. I mean, look, some people might think it's great. I can get a crab cake sandwich
00:38:07.220
at nationals park and a, and a white wine. And you know, you can probably ask them to roll
00:38:12.940
a lazy boy in there too for you and maybe even put a TV in your pocket. You know, most
00:38:16.800
people are watching the game on their iPhones anyway. Um, you know, I don't really care what
00:38:22.540
you drink or if you drink, but there's something about working. I just think there's something
00:38:28.260
about working within the confines of your environment, right? Not always changing the environment
00:38:33.740
to suit you. I mean, I've gone camping. We were talking about Boy Scouts earlier. I've
00:38:38.460
gone camping with Boy Scouts and some of these dads every year, they're bringing out like
00:38:41.880
these bigger and bigger grills, you know, and to the camp out. And I'm like, all right,
00:38:47.240
that's, that's cool. But I also like, I like enjoying the simplicity and, and the restrictions
00:38:53.540
of like a hot dog and a hobo pack over an open fire. You know, I mean, yeah, you can have
00:38:59.820
an awesome, um, you know, tailgate set up and eat ribeyes. That's cool. But, you know,
00:39:07.600
you know, you can also have a lazy boy and Buffalo wings at the movie theater now and
00:39:11.560
all this stuff. But like, you know, I don't need wine at the ballpark. I don't need to
00:39:15.460
bring my home to wherever I am. You know, sometimes it's good to restrict yourself to
00:39:20.300
what's available, you know, just, just, but ballparks should serve Cracker Jacks and hot
00:39:26.720
dogs. That's it. Right. You know, you want a crab cake sandwich, go to the restaurant across
00:39:31.560
the street. Right, right, right. No, that's, that's, I didn't know that was a thing. Um,
00:39:35.980
that's interesting. So the other one I liked is it's your welcome, not no problem. I love that
00:39:41.620
because my father-in-law, like that's his, he hates that. Like he hates when people tell him
00:39:45.100
no problem when they use something. It drives me crazy. It drives my wife crazy. It's one of my
00:39:49.360
peccadillos. You know, when you say no problem, it kind of assumes that maybe it could have been a
00:39:56.540
problem, you know, but I'm letting you off the hook. I mean, it's supposed to sound, I think
00:40:01.320
people who say it's supposed to sound gracious, but instead it just makes the, the thanker sound
00:40:08.000
like they've been an inconvenience, you know? And that is totally antithetical to what courtesy
00:40:14.280
is all about. Courtesy is about making the other person feel more comfortable always, you know?
00:40:22.320
So, you know, someone says, Oh, thank you. You don't say no problem. Meaning no problem to me,
00:40:30.580
this could have been a problem, but I'm allowing it not to be a problem. It's, it's, uh, it's,
00:40:36.120
it's the wrong approach, you know? So yes, one of my peccadillos, we're going to solve that one.
00:40:41.280
Solve it. We're going to get, we're going to get rid of it. Um, yeah,
00:40:44.080
one of those is there's no such thing as a girl's skateboard. I mean, my daughter taught
00:40:49.780
me that one the first day she saw my son's skateboard and hopped on it was like crushed
00:40:54.260
him around the park. And I was like, well, yeah, I don't, I don't need my Nerf gun or
00:41:00.660
my Lego set or my skateboard to be painted pink and called it skateboard. Like that's
00:41:06.340
insulting. That's insulting to me. That's insulting to my daughter. I mean, not to, I mean, look,
00:41:10.880
I try to be pretty easy going about all these like gender issues and stuff. Um, which given
00:41:15.780
what I'm about to put out into the world, I'm probably going to have to be, but you know,
00:41:20.260
some of these gender barriers, we are creating them now. Like they did, they didn't exist like
00:41:26.760
30, 40 years ago. Like there weren't like girl Legos. There was one skateboard, you know,
00:41:32.340
there was Legos. This stuff is new. This is marketing. You know, we've created more gender
00:41:38.480
barriers now than there need to be. I mean, literally I would not be surprised if there's
00:41:44.200
like a woman's car, you know, or here, check out this female TV. What does that even mean?
00:41:50.760
That is insulting to me. So yeah. You know, specifically there are no girls skateboards
00:41:55.680
universally. Like, like she can do anything my son can do. There's just not a boy, girl,
00:42:04.380
this, that, and the other, you know? Right. No. Yeah. I mean, the, the, the whole thing
00:42:09.520
has gotten kind of ridiculous, you know, with the men's body wash, right? It's like, it's
00:42:13.840
the same thing. It's just, it's like, it's green and comes in like a, a black bottle. It's
00:42:18.140
like, yeah, it's man. But it even, it's more ridiculous. Like, uh, you know, in the firearms
00:42:22.280
world, uh, like there's like pink guns, pink guns, it's a pink gun. Like what, wait, wait,
00:42:27.400
it's, it's just, it's a, it's a weapon. Like it's a fire. It doesn't have to be a pink,
00:42:31.120
you know, it doesn't have to be cute. It's a, you and me, we, we, we bear the responsibility
00:42:36.280
for some of this. I tell, I'm telling you 10 years ago when we both had this idea of
00:42:41.260
like, Hey, let's kind of like talk about, you know, manliness and masculinity and old
00:42:46.920
fashioned stuff. It wasn't a six months later that I was actually getting those calls from
00:42:52.760
Dove saying, Hey, do you want to blog about men's products? And we created this market
00:42:58.200
niche. I'm not saying you and I created this, but we were part of it. You're part of this
00:43:01.840
thing. And you know, we identified a market, you know, and yeah. So, but, but, uh, it's
00:43:08.260
ironic. It is, it is, it is funny. Uh, there's one I liked because the reason I like my wife
00:43:13.860
actually does this rule. It's, uh, visit a friend in the hospital, bring bad magazines.
00:43:19.960
Yes, I always do. My wife always does. I mean, look, we all have our guilty pleasures,
00:43:24.960
right. Our creature comforts, you know, and I think a real friend knows when to let you
00:43:30.480
indulge in those. That's, that's the reality. That's the reality. Yeah. Now, as I've stated
00:43:37.060
probably like a hundred times, I would never of course, dare to presume that there are any
00:43:42.380
universal truths about the female gender, but, but they do love bad magazines. They love trashy
00:43:51.860
magazines. Yeah. They love bad magazines. And so do I. And so do I, but this is like my women be
00:43:59.520
shopping moment. This is like, but they love bad magazines. Right. Us Weekly. Okay. Like I've
00:44:06.820
learned that too. Like when my wife was in the hospital, we had to take her to the hospital,
00:44:09.440
uh, during her last pregnancy, she had to be there for a few days. And I was like, okay, I, I, I know
00:44:15.360
she likes to get, read bad magazines while she's in the hospital. So I went out and got her some
00:44:20.260
Gatorade and us weekly. And all six magazines will have the same 35 long lens paparazzi shots,
00:44:27.920
but they all have just different captions. Yeah, exactly. It's funny. Um, so here's the
00:44:34.160
thing, uh, as a dad, um, who I run a site where I highlight great men from history and
00:44:41.140
I've got plenty of male role models that I can direct my son towards, right? Like Theodore
00:44:46.340
Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I find myself sometimes coming
00:44:50.620
short on women from history, you know, for obvious reasons that could serve as female role
00:44:56.360
models. Um, so I can name a few, but I'm curious, are there women from history that you have in mind
00:45:02.040
particular for your daughter? They could be from politics. They could be actresses. It could
00:45:06.200
be businesswomen. Like who, who are some role models that you have in mind for your daughter?
00:45:10.220
I do. And you know, that's, that's, you know, and I, and I include them in the book. I think
00:45:14.100
it's kind of fun to have these pictures of, of women that I either consider role models,
00:45:19.080
potential role models for my daughter or who have been role models to me, you know, honestly. Um,
00:45:25.120
uh, and, and whether that's because they have a particular skillset, whether they are particularly
00:45:30.160
brave or maybe they're just, you know, so, but the reality is, you're right. You know, there are not
00:45:36.380
as many famous women in general. And there's a reason for that. And that's because,
00:45:42.200
you know, basically women have been left out of the history books and they've been left out of the
00:45:48.020
newspapers. Um, you know, a lot of our role models, male role models are, uh, you know, heroes that
00:45:54.700
have achieved these like, you know, adventures or amazing feats of strength and bravery. Um, and they
00:46:01.340
got put in the newspaper. That's how they became role models and heroes. They were put in the
00:46:04.980
newspaper. I mean, if you think about it, history really is kind of the story of publicity,
00:46:09.760
you know? Um, and women were just not in the spotlight. They weren't allowed to be. Um,
00:46:16.200
so they weren't going to land on the front page. So yeah, we don't have a lot of female role models
00:46:20.660
through history. It's really hard to find them unless you like really like are scholarly and go back
00:46:25.140
and all this stuff. Um, and until you get to kind of this post suffragette era, you know,
00:46:30.380
in, in modern media, and then they start to pop up, but there are tons, you know, and it's been fun
00:46:35.720
looking through, not just kind of like contemplating it and trying to pick a few that I think are cool,
00:46:40.900
but also realizing like, Oh, these are people that have been role models in my life that I maybe didn't
00:46:44.840
even like kind of recognize. Um, you know, so, I mean, I'll give you a great example, like Sally
00:46:51.020
Rod, the astronaut, right? So my wife's hero, my wife's an aerospace engineer, wanted to be an
00:46:56.600
astronaut her whole life. Um, she turned me on to who Sally Ride was. And I mean, this is a woman
00:47:01.960
who succeeded in a field of science and engineering that even today is totally male dominated. Um,
00:47:10.400
and then you add like space exploration to it, you know, the right stuff. It's total men's club.
00:47:16.020
Um, and you know, and she became the first astronaut, first female astronaut. And you know,
00:47:21.980
that that's awesome. I, I, she's the kind of role model I want for my daughter. Um, they're,
00:47:28.200
they're athletes like Mia Hamm, who I think is awesome. Um, the old, uh, the old first professional
00:47:36.040
baseball league, um, for women, Annabelle Lefty Lee. I mean, here are people that are, you know,
00:47:42.400
I think they're role models, not because they could just play sport because they could play baseball,
00:47:46.040
but because they did something that people told them that they couldn't do. That's cool. That's
00:47:51.680
punk, you know, that's rock and roll. I think, you know, I don't doubt that a woman can pick up a,
00:47:58.080
a baseball or a sledgehammer or a discus or race car or whatever, and do anything we can do.
00:48:04.780
But I like the people that pick the stuff that someone says they can't, you know, um, another
00:48:11.020
great role model is Margaret Thatcher, you know, forget her politics. I don't care what about her
00:48:14.680
politics. I'm talking about someone who was able to succeed in a male dominated profession at such a
00:48:20.760
high profile. And, you know, she did this 40 years, 40 years ago, we still haven't had a female head of
00:48:27.700
state, you know, and she's doing it in England. That's, that's impressive. Um, those are a few,
00:48:33.240
but, you know, I have others that are not just like, it's not always about breaking down gender
00:48:38.660
barriers. You know, there's a lot of women that I really admire purely because of their talents,
00:48:43.300
you know, they're not doing it just like breaking, you know, some barrier that, but, you know, maybe
00:48:48.860
they're just really witty or really funny. Like, like, uh, Nora Ephron, you know, great writer,
00:48:54.100
uh, Carol Burnett, Elaine Strick, she talked about her, Tina Fey, or musicians like Big Mama Thornton,
00:49:00.200
you know, she wrote Hound Dog. And have you ever heard Big Mama Thornton records? I mean, they're,
00:49:04.380
they're as good as anything you'll ever hear. Blow Elvis and Buddy Holly away, you know,
00:49:08.820
Joni Mitchell. Um, these are women that they're not, they're not just women that take on male
00:49:15.940
characteristics, you know, like in doing something that only men used to do, but they're just
00:49:20.760
demonstrating a talent, a passion, commitment. Um, or they just, you know, maybe they just have
00:49:26.340
really good taste and I like people with good taste. So I've tried to, yeah, that's great. I love
00:49:33.080
this. All right. So like you did with the rules for my unborn son, at the end of the book, you give
00:49:36.560
a list of recommended reading and music suggestions for your daughter. So can you just fair share a few
00:49:42.900
of those and explain why you picked them? Yeah. I mean, this is really just my effort to control
00:49:47.560
the stereo in the car for the next 18 years. And again, like let's remind people, this is like
00:49:52.440
personal taste. Like sometimes people read this thing and they just like get infuriated because
00:49:56.860
they think like, yeah, because yeah, they think that this is supposed to be some kind of like
00:50:00.920
academic survey of the most important music of the last century, or like, this is the most
00:50:05.680
important feminist rock of the last 50 years. That is not it at all. This is like, so my kids
00:50:11.280
like the music that I like so we can go on road trips and I don't go crazy. This is about totally
00:50:17.900
trying to strong arm my taste onto theirs. And it's my own little personal way to do it. Um, but you
00:50:24.660
know, I did get a chance to pick a bunch of music that I thought my, not just what my daughter would
00:50:29.220
like, but that were like by women, um, women that I love music that I love, you know, cause
00:50:34.820
this is cool to see we have this luxury as, as men. We, if you ask a man, make your list of 50
00:50:41.400
great songs, you don't think about if it's a man or a woman, you know, because men are so used to
00:50:46.220
like kind of being the default gender, if you will, which is so ridiculous, but just because of that
00:50:51.600
traditional power structure, you know, I think it's good for a girl to be reminded of like,
00:50:56.560
you can do this, you know, don't let Rolling Stone top 50. And you see all these men guitarists up
00:51:03.240
there, like make you think you can't do this. So like, yeah, it was a chance to make a cool list of,
00:51:07.640
of female artists. Um, you know, I mean, some of it's the stuff that I listened to as a kid. I mean,
00:51:15.480
my mom playing Bobby Gentry for me or Dolly Parton. Um, like I said, Joni Mitchell earlier,
00:51:21.080
but also like, there's so many great artists from the seventies. Like I grew up listening to
00:51:25.580
Blondie, Chrissy Hine from the Pretenders. Um, you know, Joan Jett, that, that was like the
00:51:32.300
soundtrack to my whole youth, you know? And it wasn't until now when I was putting this list
00:51:37.440
together, I was like, as a kid, I didn't even think about the fact that these were women, but God,
00:51:41.440
that's awesome. There are awesome women in rock. Um, and even in hip hop and, and R&B, which is,
00:51:47.840
you know, I probably don't listen to it as much, but I did try to put some cool stuff in there.
00:51:51.540
Um, solo and stuff. So it's an awesome mix. You can play it at your, uh, next all women party,
00:51:57.460
or you can just play it at your next party because it's all good stuff. Do you have a Spotify list?
00:52:03.700
No, but I should make one. I'll make one tomorrow. That'd be cool. We can share it.
00:52:07.860
Well, Hey Walker, this has been a great conversation. We got, we got pretty heady.
00:52:11.440
In this one for a book that's sort of, you know, it was kind of fun, but we got some,
00:52:15.900
some heady topics, which I liked. Um, I know. Well, I, you know, I read, I read what you write
00:52:20.120
all the time and I know that, you know, it's hard to be the torchbearer for this, you know,
00:52:26.400
this kind of movement, if you will, that, that, uh, too many people might be too quick to judge
00:52:33.020
as being exclusive. But in fact, it is quite the opposite. And I really appreciate some of the
00:52:39.020
times that I've seen you write into, to your blog posts about, you know, this is not about
00:52:45.340
reinvigorating some antiquated, you know, power structure, you know, and, uh, and I think it's
00:52:53.440
good for you and me to, to kind of be the ones to stand up and make some of these points. I mean,
00:52:58.840
like I said at the beginning, the best way to make a man into a feminist is to give him a daughter.
00:53:03.480
You know, I, I want, I want to, I want the best for her and I, and I don't want her to
00:53:09.320
disadvantage. And, uh, and that's a lot of what this writing, this book was about.
00:53:14.500
Awesome. Well, Walker, where can the people learn more about your book?
00:53:18.540
Uh, I mean, the best way, this is just pop it into Google rules for my newborn daughter,
00:53:23.320
newborn daughter, because I wrote it after she was born. I had, I had to be fair. Um,
00:53:28.360
and, uh, I would go right to Google, which is going to take you to either my website,
00:53:34.480
which is great. You can read some nice blurbs about me and all that kind of stuff,
00:53:38.880
but probably best to just go right to the source and type it into Amazon. Um, book's going to be
00:53:44.200
available next week. You can pre-order it now. If you pre-order it now, it hits my first week sales,
00:53:50.060
which is awesome. If you ever, anybody out there is a self publisher or wants to know how you, uh,
00:53:54.920
jump up on those lists, uh, jack the pre-orders up. That's what I've learned. Um, yeah, but that's,
00:54:04.500
that's the best way. Cool. Walker Lamont. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure.
00:54:08.900
Brett, I always love talking to you. Um, keep going with your doing. I'm really, uh, I'm really
00:54:14.120
loving the site. It's, uh, it's great. And thanks for having me. Appreciate it. All right. Talk to you
00:54:19.760
later. My guest today was Walker Lamont. His latest book is rules for my newborn daughter. You can
00:54:24.520
find it on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere. You can find out more information about Walker's
00:54:28.160
work at walkerlamont.com. Also make sure to check out the show notes for the show at aom.is slash
00:54:34.080
Lamont. Well, that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast. For more manly tips
00:54:41.400
and advice, make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com. And if
00:54:45.120
you enjoy this show and have got something out of it, please give us a review on iTunes or Stitcher.
00:54:48.980
I'd really appreciate it. As always, thank you for your continued support. And until next time,