#218： The Lost Arts of Modern Civilization
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Summary
Hosting, writing, and going out on real dates are often seen as old-fashioned practices that are no longer needed in an age where you can communicate instantaneously via email or text, and your next girlfriend is just a swipe away, but my guest today argues that the refinement of civilization requires that we still continue these supposedly old fashioned practices.
Transcript
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brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast hosting letter
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writing and going out on real dates are often seen as old-fashioned practices that no longer
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needed in an age when guests can book an airbnb instead of crashing at your pad you can communicate
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instantaneously via email or text or your next girlfriend is just a tinder swipe away but my
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guest today argues that the refinement of civilization requires that we still continue
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these supposedly old-fashioned practices his name is mitchell kalpakian and he's the author of the
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lost arts of civilization and today on the show we discuss what homer the guy with the iliad and
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the odyssey can teach us about being a good host why writing letters by hand will always beat email
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and why you might consider resurrecting the forgotten art of courtship great podcast after the show check
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out the show notes at aom.is civilization where you can find links to resources we mentioned
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throughout the show so you can delve deeper into this topic
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mitchell kalpakian welcome to the show well thank you very much uh i appreciate the invitation to talk
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about subjects that are on my mind subjects that appear in my teaching and subjects that i write about
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because i find them very important uh very timely and uh uh very very rich in wisdom well i agree so
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you've written um several books um but the one book that i came across of yours that i'd like to focus on
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today uh is the uh the book the lost arts of modern civilization sure and in this book you make the case
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for reviving what a lot of people today would think of as old-fashioned practices like yes writing
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letters by hand um or courtship um sure so i'm curious why what do you think people stand to benefit
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and by people and since this is the art of manliness podcast particularly men what do they stand from
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benefit to benefit from taking part in these um antiquated practices in our modern technological age
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well yeah yes well that's a very probing question and a very practical question
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uh first of all uh i think the word antiquated perhaps is a little extreme and a little exaggerated
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uh these are practices that are familiar to the many of us in my generation i'm in my 70s
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people in their 60s perhaps 50s can identify with all of these things uh uh but you're quite right
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these have become somewhat obsolescent less customary uh and they have been more or less relegated to the
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past as old-fashioned or as you said antiquated uh but they're not you know some things some things
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that are old are worth preserving and cherishing because they are timeless and they are very human
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they're very personal they're very enriching so uh things like all those topics in the book the lost
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arts of modern civilization uh are things that will beautify and enrich human beings lives
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in other words uh in other words uh i can sense myself because i lived i've lived in both worlds i've lived
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in the pre-technological revolution the digital revolution and i now live in the post-digital
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technological age and i i see this a profound difference uh and the profound difference is that
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the world that i try to recover in the lost arts modern civilization is far more personal far more
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joy-filled uh it's somehow makes life so much more enjoyable and delightful uh that it's worth
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remembering and recalling it's it shouldn't just be put on the shelf or put in the museum
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or just be considered quaint uh so that's my that's my apologia my defense of those uh old-fashioned
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customs or antiquated ideas they're not antiquated some things like like the habit of reading for
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example i mean how can that ever become antiquated you see that can't become antiquated
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uh i know people are absorbed by video culture but that that can't possibly translate into the
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elimination of the importance and value of reading so um i think all men can benefit from these uh lost
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arts uh all human beings can benefit all men can benefit uh for example uh you take for example uh you
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could take any one of those lost arts like the the lost art of hospitality for example uh i have found
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uh my whole my whole history of my life uh from the time i was a child through my married life
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my now in my uh 70s i have found that people appreciate an invitation for dinner for a social occasion
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or a party they they uh uh men more than i mean women more than men uh men somehow have to be coaxed
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coerced or made to feel guilty but many men do relish these occasions as much as women and children
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why uh because it enlarges people's worlds we all have circles of family members we have
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circles of friendships but part of the pleasure of life is to expand our relationships to enjoy more
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people to extend our friendships uh and you never know what will happen that is you could have one
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conversation you could learn one thing you could receive one introduction on these social events
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that could somehow make a difference in your life uh why should we limit our worlds only to a
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a limited circle or a clique or just you know a few people uh that are in our circle when this
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there is a larger world for us to enjoy and there's so much to for us to give and receive
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it's mutual you know we we might contribute something say something uh someone might know uh learn that we
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have a favorite hobby or a particular interest that someone else also enjoys and something happens
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uh so this is a way of somehow gaining perspective in other words life is more than work you know or
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life is more than money life is more than paying bills and purchasing things there's a human dimension
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to life that we cannot lose sight of you see we are meant human beings are meant by nature
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uh to somehow uh work to live not live to work but we live we we work to live and we work to play
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we work to enjoy things and uh uh these lost arts are sources of true enjoyment you don't have to depend
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on an entertainment industry you don't have to depend on a mobile device this is these are all natural
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human traditional sources of enjoyment that are filled with mirth and people this people testify to this
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and uh people uh people recognize that these are inherently good things to pursue and to do
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and going back to hospitality i mean throughout the the your book um you look to uh great thinkers great
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literature to um i guess suss out or make your you know kind of make your case build your case right
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i thought it was interesting with the lost art of hospitality you look to the homeric poems um as
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as a treatise on hospitality because i think it's interesting for a lot of men they think oh
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you know the iliad odysseus it's all about achilles rage black blood spewing out of bodies
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and these great epic battles sure so but what can the homeric epics teach us about hospitality
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well yes uh uh uh uh even though this is a story about the trojan war which is always in the
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background um there are in both the iliad and the odyssey these uh there are scenes of hospitality
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in the iliad there's a very very famous scene uh uh called funeral games of patroclus which is an
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episode that is in contrast to war that is the greeks are in a state of leisure they're competing for fun
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they're not fighting uh for glory there's a it's a kind of interlude and homer wants us to see
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in both the iliad and the odyssey that men have two sides they have a masculine side of course
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that somehow is demanded of them in fighting evil and going to war and defending their families
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uh and uh fighting uh fighting whatever difficulties confront them but all of homer's heroes have a
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mother and a father and they have a wife and they have children and homer reminds us that that is
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really the center of their life it's really the center of their life now in the odyssey if you ever
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go you know read the odyssey uh carefully you will notice there are several scenes of hospitality i can't
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think of any book that spends as much time on the rituals of hospitality that is right at the beginning
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of the book one of the gods comes in disguise and is received with hospitality by audysius's son
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and later on uh the son telemachus goes on the journey to find news about his father is he living or is he
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dead and he's welcomed by the hospitality of menelaus uh and welcomed uh by the hospitality
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of uh another one of the companions of audysius uh uh in the trojan war and and uh so all through the
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book he went uh when audysius finally comes home the very first scene that portrays audysius when he's
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arrived home is that he's received with hospitality by not a king or queen but a swine herd in other words
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hospitality is an ingrained habit of life it isn't just kings nobles the wealthy all human beings
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practice hospitality it is considered to be sacred to the gods to violate the rituals and obligations of
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hospitality hospitality is an offense against zeus in other words this is the most human of all virtues all
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human beings are travelers all human beings are strangers all human beings are find times in their
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life where they depend upon the kindness of other human beings therefore they are obligated to practice
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this virtue that is so essential for a human life uh now the the custom of hospitality in homer also
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is just a beautiful ritual in other words uh it's a it's a very special occasion uh and it involves
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different stages that is the travelers first of all welcomed bathed cleansed
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given clean garments given a good night's sleep in comfortable uh in a with comfortable blankets
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in one place and then the following day no and then uh so uh that that the first he's cleansed
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then he's feasted you know uh and all of the the dainties the mellow wine the roasted meat
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in great abundance uh in great abundance is uh is offered to the guest uh so first of all the needs of the
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body are met but that's not enough you see the next day the next day the the traveler uh and the guest is
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uh uh welcomed for his conversation where in other words where does he come from this is an occasion
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for learning this is an opportunity to broaden the mind every traveler comes with his own background
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comes with his own experience and so they spend time in conversation delightful conversation
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real exchange uh uh audacious when he's the guest tells all these episodes and stories
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uh from his experience of from his experience in the trojan war and that's that's all that's still not the
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end of the ritual hospitality then uh all the guests hear the beautiful music of the bard playing the liar
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and then they are uh uh uh uh entertained by uh by by by by dancers who are so so practiced and skillful
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in this particular art and then finally uh before the ritual hospitality is completed uh audacious is is asked to
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participate in the olympic games athletic competitions uh and so you see that the whole whole idea here is
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hospitality nourishes the body the mind the spirit the heart it acknowledges the humanity of the traveler
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in all of his different dimensions you honor the guest you see uh you welcome the guest you have
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conversation with the guest you learn from the guest and when he leaves you give him a gift now could
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anything be more civilizing and humanizing and heartwarming than the knowledge that a particular culture or
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society practices this on all the different social levels you see that this there's a great great
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wisdom here about the art of living and i mean so i guess for us i mean in the modern age we're not
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ancient greeks but uh we might not do this the whole ritual that they did in ancient greece but i mean for
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us it could just be as simple as actually setting aside and like being intentional about inviting others into our
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home and breaking bread with them absolutely it's always it's always a thoughtful kind gracious and
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social thing to do people appreciate it people appreciate it uh you don't you're right it doesn't
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have to be elaborate you're absolutely right but it's the intention and the goodwill that counts you
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know what are you doing tonight well why don't you come over for coffee and dessert uh why don't you what
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are you doing tonight well just we're having a barbecue why don't you come and join us uh uh you know
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it's the winter's been long and weary just come over for some wine and cheese in conversation we
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haven't seen each other in a long time do you see that does that's nourishing that's emotionally
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nourishing it helps people to uh it helps human beings to appreciate other human beings and
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recognize that they're not just workers they're not just mothers they're not just fathers you know
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they're not just specialists that there's a human dimension to them uh that is so inviting but you
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have you need these occasions in order to uh to to know these people you know and get to know them
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better uh i mean just simple things even if you've never met before just simple questions like oh you
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know uh where are you from or you know where did you learn your trade or where did you go to school
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or where are you i noticed you have a french name uh are you french canadian or you know little things
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like that somehow open the door and i have found in my lifetime that you know uh that occasions of
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hospitality are naturally opportunities for conversation everyone has a story everyone has a story
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you know uh but you have to ask nobody's going to tell you this story nobody's going to delve into
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their background or relive their childhood or tell you of you know the great adventures
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the romantic adventures i mean whatever they've done in life it's memorable i mean it's it's all stored
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away but they need an opportunity to express it and those things come up naturally in uh social
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occasions of hospitality where people are conversing and learning about each other and
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and there's that that kind of spontaneous honest exchange and then all those people are there so
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that yes often some people sometimes someone will come say well let me introduce you to so and so or
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uh my wife would really like to talk to you or my husband would really like to talk to you
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you see uh those things happen in such a fortuitous way uh such a spontaneous way that it's uh
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very very very spirited uh so i i uh you're quite right when you say that hospitality does not have to
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be elaborate but it's uh it just it can be very simple you see when earlier i said that one of the
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hosts of the traveler is eumaeus he's a swine herd he doesn't have a palace he doesn't have talented
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musicians and dancers but the welcome he gives the stranger he doesn't know it's on dishes he just
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thinks it's a vagabond but he treats him with regal hospitality he offers him his best makes him
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comfortable he roasts the best meat for him he spends time conversing with him they exchange stories
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you see uh that's a very important you know storytelling is a very important part of this
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ritual uh there is so much human wisdom to be learned by way of conversation you don't have to
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read books about it you know you don't have to read experts about many things that somehow can be
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easily learned by confront conversations with people who have life experience and who have
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things to say and have real convictions so another area or another practice you argue for is the
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the art of letter writing and i'm curious you know in a world in a world where we can communicate
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to any with anyone around the world instantly via email or text message why should we make make time
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for handwritten letters i mean what are we able to convey via handwritten letter that we can't through
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an email yes well again it's a very very thoughtful and very practical question
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and that uh and that uh and that is uh the uh the difference between electronic correspondence
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and letter writing is that some uh some occasions require letter writing some there's certain occasions
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where uh you can uh compliment someone congratulate someone sympathize with someone offer your good wishes to someone
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because when you write a letter first of all you have to be in a state of leisure
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you know like most electronic communication is in the form of business you know we yes we want dispatch
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you know we want instant communication uh when we're purchasing things ordering things
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doing online uh business uh yes that has its purpose but that we shouldn't limit correspondence only to emails
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uh so when you're writing a letter and just notice now i i mean i mean this has been said to me
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people uh will do not throw away your personal letters they don't throw them away
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um i remember myself uh when i was a college student i would uh i would call my parents
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once a week or twice a week and then i would also write letters
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but i remember my mother saying to me please write letters she said i can re-read the letters
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i like seeing your handwriting your handwriting reminds me of who you are
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when i receive a letter um i can then put it away and re-read it when i miss you
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when i have a letter from you and other relatives ask i can read them your letter or set show them
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your letter in other words sometimes we can express the deepest emotions of our hearts and souls
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yes letter writing uh takes time you have to somehow imagine the person
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in front of you in other words you have to see that person you have to remember that person
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you have to keep in mind that person's character personality sense of humor likes interests
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and it makes a demand upon you what can you say in a letter that would be meaningful what could you say
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in a letter that would be enjoyable what can you say in a letter that would make someone say
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that letter made my day that's what people tell me that's what people say you said getting your letter
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made my day what did it communicate it communicated to me that you found the time
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you found the time to write to me and you somehow organized your day to collect your thoughts and say
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something to me in a letter that was friendly that was delightful that
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gave me advice that recommended something for me to read or to see or to do
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um that's the power of letter writing you see in other words the business of letter writing is not
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to suck it's not instant communication but how it's a form of pleasing someone
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you see it's a form of pleasing someone how do you keep friendships how do you keep them active
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you see well you yeah you can you can do emails and keep them active but uh i have found in my lifetime
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that the friendships that thrive are the ones that somehow exchange letters doesn't have to be every
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week but regularly like even if it's three four times a year uh they're beautiful things to receive
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and you read them and you reread them and what happens when you read a letter is it motivates you to write
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a letter and yes i know people say well i you know at least i'm not a good letter writer that's not the
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point you know you know how to talk you know how to express yourself that that's all that people want
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to just express yourself in the best way you can you know my mother was uh was an immigrant she
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she uh didn't know english very well and she just she she knew uh a few languages uh she knew
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armenians and she grew up in uh france she would write mean letters in french
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ma chère fisse i lost i still love that beginning my my dearest son ma chère fisse you know
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uh uh and that was very touching uh and uh that's how people know us they know us by what we say
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they know us by what we write they know us by our thoughtfulness we cannot always plead the excuse
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of busyness you see that is the lamest of excuses people always find time to do the things that are
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important they always do that is they may have to prioritize but they don't ignore doing the things
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that are important when you have the moment when you have the weekend when you have vacation
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you do the things that are really important um you write that letter or you make that phone call
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you know or you make that invitation uh and that's the secret of living a balanced life you know we
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cannot let busyness or work somehow consume us to the point where the most important things in our lives
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our family relationships our bonds our friendships the people that we're most indebted to uh that we have
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lifelong association with we have to make sure that these things are not neglected or forgotten
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because then we become less human you see we become less human i think one of the other things i love
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about letters is that it's tangible right yes when you get a letter you see the person's handwriting
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uh and through the handwriting you can see their personality and yeah when you hold it you think
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well he the person who sent me this like he held it too there's something i mean it's something it's
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bizarre that that can actually convey more connection through an object but like i don't get that same
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sort of sense whenever i read an email even though it might be heartfelt whenever it's conveyed via
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letter there's just something the the the because i can heft it um physically it conveys there's a more
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of a there it there's an emotional heftness to it as well yes it's a very good way of putting it you
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know i mean can you imagine uh can you imagine uh love letters by email can you imagine writing a letter of
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condolence by email i mean do you see how inappropriate that is that that that's as as impersonal and as
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insensitive and as unfeeling as as one could possibly get you know so you're right the if we want to
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somehow you know we have to remember that human beings uh have many many emotions you know they they
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have they have sensitivities they have sensibilities they have you know certain refinements um and we
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never can quite capture that with email you know um uh and uh writing a letter gives you the chance to
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somehow uh present yourself or write in a way or say some things that you know correspond
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to that person's sensibilities and feelings and thoughts and interests uh that is uh that's important
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to them you know that it's important to them i mean uh i mean every human being wants others to take an
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interest in them you see uh and that's what we neglect in the modern world is we don't take
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a human interest in other human beings we take an interest in them if you know we work together we're
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colleagues you know we're on a team uh we work on a project we work on roofs together we work on houses
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together uh yes that's true uh but there's there is another dimension you see you know we have to
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always remember that there's a mystery to human being there's a very very deep mystery to human
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being and yes we see the person with our eyes and you know we recognize that this person is tall this
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one is short this one is young this one is old this one is attractive this one is plain you know we
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those are first impressions that we have but we have to realize that there are so many other layers
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upon layers upon layers upon layers that uh that form a human being don't we want to know those other
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layers uh don't we want to to get to know the heart of a person the soul of a person the essence of a
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person uh and so these lost arts of modern civilization are always keeping that keeping that alive
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you know i mean just think of uh when a person when a person leaves this world what what are they
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remembered for you know what are they no one they're not going to be receive a eulogy for you know being
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punctual at work every day although that was certainly an admirable quality but people will say he was a good
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mother i mean he he was a good father she was a good mother he was a true friend you know she had a pure
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heart she never said anything unkind about anyone you know she was the most humble person and never
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complained i mean it's it's these beautiful qualities of human beings that are cherished
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that somehow uh we will know and appreciate if we have this personal dimension to our life
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it seems like um these lost arts but they all have in common is that they
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draw ourselves out of our own head in a way yes yes very good very well put yes i couldn't agree
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with you more you're thinking about others and not just because yeah modern modern culture is very
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insular it uh you know everything is made to fit we can get internet content that just you know based
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on an algorithm that aligns with our taste yes and these lost arts require you to like not just think
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about yourself yes exactly well you know i i uh one of the chapters in that book uh i really enjoyed
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writing because i found it sorely lacking all around me was uh it was good the chapter's called the art of
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pleasing and just think about it i think just think about what you just said that so many human beings
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in modern culture are most insensitive about pleasing others but most committed to pleasing themselves
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in others everything i do must somehow enhance my image everything i do must serve my pleasures everything
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i do must somehow advance my career uh but uh the art of pleasing is the willingness to do the little things
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that may not be you know grave matters but just to do the little things
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just because it's pleasing to someone you know how many of us are that sensitive to know what pleases
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our mother or our father or our spouse or our oldest son or our youngest daughter you know
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uh that does require just what you said the ability to put ourselves last to put other people first
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to be aware of other people's uh uh sensitivities to be aware of other people the things that make
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other people happy and we need to remember that these are proofs of love you see proofs of love are the
00:35:34.200
little things that you do the the the little thoughtful kind things that you do uh where you know you
00:35:41.640
say well whatever you want to do wherever you want to go uh uh rather than having an argument about
00:35:48.200
that you see uh all of us need to learn how to put our own will our own preferences
00:35:57.800
second um and that requires humility that requires great great thoughtfulness
00:36:06.040
um i i remember i think i used this example in in the book but i remember reading this
00:36:13.160
as just such an exquisite example of the art of pleasing uh i was reading something by alice von
00:36:22.520
hildebrand uh married to the eminent theologian dietrich von hildebrand and she remembers asking her
00:36:31.080
husband once she said could you please please please not put a bar of soap in a soap dish with water in
00:36:38.360
she says i know it's not something that bothers you but it's quite irritating to a woman and could you
00:36:47.400
please not do this and uh the fact that he stopped doing that proved how much he loved her that's how she
00:37:01.240
interprets this you see yeah in other words uh take for example a mother who cooks what her children like to eat
00:37:11.400
rather than rather than what she likes to eat she she cooks what her husband likes to eat or what the children
00:37:19.000
like to eat you see that's the art of pleasing that's the art of pleasing uh and uh we all we all
00:37:29.320
thrive on this you see we we can all be sourced to other people all could be sources of joy to them
00:37:39.080
if we do these little things these simple amenities these these thoughtful acts of courtesy
00:37:47.160
so um mitchell in another chapter you talk about the lost art of courtship um i'm sure our younger
00:37:54.280
listeners uh have heard the word uh have heard the word but because they've grown up in a culture that
00:37:59.240
is pretty much abandoned courtship um what exactly is it and how does courting or courtship strengthen
00:38:08.040
a relationship in the long run yes well again uh that that's um that is a lost art and it needs to be
00:38:17.240
recovered uh for all kinds of reasons and you know courtship it doesn't you know yes i know people will
00:38:26.040
say well that's something they did in jade austin's 18th century world or in the victorian period but no
00:38:32.840
there's a there's a certain logic to it in other words um courtship begins in a social in a social
00:38:43.000
occasion that is a man and a woman will meet you know that they they can meet at school or they can
00:38:49.720
meet at work or they can meet at church or they can meet at a party you know it's a social situation
00:38:57.400
uh and uh they someone will introduce them or they will introduce themselves uh and he will make an
00:39:05.320
impression on her and she will make an impression on him so in other words this person is not just some
00:39:12.840
stranger this is someone that you had a chance to meet this this is someone
00:39:20.520
upon whom you have an impression either favorable or unfavorable or interesting or uninteresting or
00:39:28.040
attractive or not attractive um so it begins uh it begins in a social situation
00:39:36.440
uh and uh if there is you know compatibility and congeniality uh then a man uh should
00:39:47.880
then initiate a courtship by calling asking the person you know to do something uh whether it is to go out
00:39:56.920
to dinner or to go out to some cultural event or go to some athletic event and so in other words
00:40:05.160
um there's a second opportunity a second opportunity to somehow know each other better uh to have more
00:40:15.160
conversation to appreciate uh and understand each other's personality a little bit more
00:40:23.880
um and so in other words you're building a foundation you see it is uh first of all here is someone you've
00:40:32.520
actually met someone that's been introduced to you by someone you respect um and and so now you you
00:40:41.480
spent more time with each other on a date uh and so the second time one of you or both of you will say
00:40:50.120
well i i hope we can do this again you see and so the third layer builds upon the second layer which
00:40:57.560
builds upon the first layer you see and so as this goes on within a period of time uh uh
00:41:05.880
uh then the the whole idea here is that uh you will be falling in love or you will not be falling in love
00:41:19.240
as this relationship somehow develops and deepens at some point someone will say you know i really
00:41:28.680
miss you i really miss you i feel this kind of emptiness in my life um i really love being with
00:41:35.800
you um uh i love your sense of humor you're you're you're fun to be with you know uh we have so much to
00:41:44.440
talk about you see so in other words you give a courtship is allowing a relationship to grow
00:41:52.760
naturally you see in other words it's like a seed let the seed grow cultivate the seed nurture the seed
00:42:03.400
let it blossom you see and uh and then one of two things will happen uh that is a man will will
00:42:13.480
will realize or a woman will realize well this is not meant to be and i i uh or
00:42:21.160
they will recognize that this is meant to be i uh i this this person is perfect for me
00:42:30.920
but notice that as i'm describing courtship it's chaste all right notice it's chaste notice that the
00:42:39.800
whole idea the whole sexual aspect of love and marriage are guarded and protected
00:42:48.600
there is none of this hookup culture none of this promiscuity none of this this this cohabitation
00:42:59.400
that is a mockery of a romance and a mockery of marriage the whole the whole point of courtship
00:43:07.080
is that a mystery is being unveiled you see it's being unveiled it has to be unveiled slowly it doesn't
00:43:17.720
happen instantly the secret of a person has to come out the beauty of a person needs time to reveal itself
00:43:26.520
and uh uh and uh and that that's what courtship is in other words you fall in love with someone for all
00:43:37.640
kinds of good reasons you don't just fall in love because of physical attraction you fall in love with
00:43:44.600
persons with with someone because there's compatibility because there's mutual attraction
00:43:52.360
because you share similar ideals because you have common values because you realize you can live
00:43:59.240
together because you realize your mother or father would approve of him or her
00:44:06.840
um in marriage you see in other words uh there's a there's there's a mystery that's being unveiled and
00:44:15.640
being revealed stages right i think that's one of the lessons i mean you refer to jane austen i know a
00:44:20.760
lot of guys think jane austen is sort of you know that's for ladies but there's oh no there's a great
00:44:26.120
lesson there i just finished reading uh pride and prejudice oh good good and mr bennett right uh he
00:44:34.040
he's in a terrible relationship he does not does not like his wife he calls her a silly woman and but
00:44:39.000
elizabeth his older daughter you know noted like real you know she notes why her dad doesn't like
00:44:45.480
his marriage with his with her mother is that he married her just for looks like it was just the
00:44:50.440
the sexual attraction and it must have been a quick courtship uh because it wasn't until after
00:44:56.680
he was married to his wife that he realized i do not i have nothing in common with this woman
00:45:02.200
and i don't enjoy being around her well that's right exactly uh yes you see what jane austen
00:45:08.760
shows you in that book and that's why men should read this book because um men should need men should
00:45:16.520
need to uh need to read this book because what jane austen reveals to you is that uh if a woman is
00:45:24.440
uncertain about whether or not she wants to return your love there's one test that you have to pass
00:45:30.360
there's one one test you have to pass and um in other words every woman wants to know
00:45:37.560
in her heart does he really love me really love me or just say he loves me okay he could say he loves
00:45:46.360
me but uh i'm not convinced he really loves me and what jane austen shows you in that book
00:45:55.240
uh is that yes darcy darcy really loves elizabeth bennett and how many men after being refused
00:46:03.800
when they made a marriage offer would make a second marriage offer to the to a woman who refused
00:46:12.120
him how many men are large enough noble enough to do that forgiving enough overlooking enough to do
00:46:18.920
that you see he did that you see and uh notice that uh there's another episode of that book where
00:46:27.720
remember he proposes to her the first time and she says no you're the last person i would ever marry
00:46:33.320
on earth she says that to him with great anger because she's offended by his manners offended by
00:46:39.080
his manners by his snobbery uh by the fact that he told his best friend not to court elizabeth bennett's
00:46:47.880
sister jane uh and so they part uh on this note of uh of anger and insult now then they meet again
00:47:02.280
many months later and notice how darcy he he he can he treats her like a gentleman he could have avoided
00:47:10.920
her he could have given her the cold shoulder he could have been slavish he could have pretended she
00:47:16.280
didn't exist but he was a gentleman and in other words he showed her that he could change his behavior
00:47:25.640
and manners to please her you see in other words that's how much she meant to him he would he admits
00:47:34.120
his faults he corrects his faults um he uh tries again he wants to prove to her that he loves her that
00:47:44.440
much that there's nothing he won't do to please her but within his power so uh what jane austen shows
00:47:53.880
you in that book as you recognize you recognized in your own reading of it is that people marry for
00:48:00.520
different kinds of reasons you know they're all there are all those different romances and matches in
00:48:05.880
that book and you mentioned the one between the mother and the father where he marries her for social
00:48:11.560
reasons uh she's attractive and she's young and she's flirtatious and he married her but but the
00:48:21.000
all the other dimensions of the other dimensions of missing compatibility is is missing they're not
00:48:29.000
in other words he doesn't respect her mind do you see you the person you marry ultimately is someone
00:48:35.480
you have to respect you have to respect the person's character the person's mind person's moral principles
00:48:43.240
um uh that's a very practical consideration many people in that book they marry just for money you
00:48:50.440
know the old maid charlotte lucas she wants to marry so she's removes the stigma of old maid she doesn't
00:48:58.120
want to be a financial burden on her family so she marries well that's not a very happy marriage either
00:49:03.720
you see they're mediocre marriages jane austen shows you many mediocre marriages uh
00:49:12.120
but she also shows you the beautiful ideal that is embodied in elizabeth and darcy they do everything
00:49:20.040
right in other words they take into account the economic aspect of marriage the social aspect of
00:49:27.160
marriage they both realize they're marrying into each other's families they're not just marrying each other
00:49:33.080
they're marrying each other and his family and her family they have to they're not going to end all
00:49:40.680
family relationships because of their marriage and they're all they're both committed to making the
00:49:47.720
mingling of two families work they're going to extend themselves with their manners with their behavior with
00:49:55.640
their conduct to always be civil and polite even though they may not like someone you see
00:50:02.760
marriage demands that so the economic consideration the social consideration and they are also
00:50:11.320
attracted to each other you see darcy and elizabeth are he's fascinated by her he keeps saying all
00:50:17.960
through the book he cannot stop looking at those beautiful eyes and uh and likewise elizabeth has to
00:50:24.600
agree as all the women uh at the dance that darcy is indeed a very handsome man that that is there the
00:50:33.960
attractive element is there but even more important than all those considerations is the moral dimension of
00:50:40.840
marriage courtship courtship courtship courtship courtship gives you the opportunity to recognize whether
00:50:48.040
moral dimension of marriage is there as the foundation you can have all the other things you can have
00:50:56.920
the economic and social and attractive aspects of marriage somehow in place but if that other dimension is
00:51:05.560
missing, for example, then there's going, there are going to be some serious divisions and
00:51:12.980
conflicts. But if the moral dimension is present, and you both have the same ideals, same principles,
00:51:19.540
whatever the arguments are, you will reconcile them, because you agree on what is good and right
00:51:25.320
and moral. Very good. Well, Mitchell, this has been a great conversation.
00:51:31.420
Is there, where are your books available? Where can people find more about your work?
00:51:35.560
Well, TAN Books has two of my books, The Lost Arts of Modern Civilization and The Mysteries of Life in
00:51:46.780
Children's Literature. And Crossroad Publishing has The Virtues We Need Again, and I have another book,
00:51:56.740
it's called The Virtues That Build Us Up. It's coming out in July 1st. Crossroad Publishing,
00:52:06.400
so TAN Books and Crossroad Publishing. Very good. Well, Mitchell, thank you so much for your time.
00:52:12.080
It's been a pleasure. Well, thank you for asking such good questions. You're a great interviewer.
00:52:16.700
Well, thank you so much. All right. Bye. Bye-bye.
00:52:19.660
My guest today was Mitchell Kalpakian. He's the author of the book, The Lost Arts of Civilization. It's
00:52:24.660
available on Amazon.com. He's got some other great books. The Virtues We Need Again is another good
00:52:29.080
one where he takes life lessons from the great books. Check that out as well. And also make sure
00:52:33.920
check out the show notes at aom.is slash civilization for links to resources mentioned throughout the
00:52:40.360
Well, that wraps up another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. For more manly tips and
00:52:56.380
advice, make sure to check out the Art of Manliness website at artofmanliness.com. And
00:52:59.940
if you enjoy this show and have gotten something out of it, I'd appreciate it if you give us a review
00:53:03.620
on iTunes or Stitcher to help spread the word about the show. As always, I appreciate your continued
00:53:08.320
support. And until next time, this is Brad McKay telling you to stay manly.