The Art of Manliness - #237： The Rise of the Sufferfests

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so for the past

00:00:18.660 several years you'd be hard-pressed to scroll through your facebook feed or instagram feed

00:00:22.400 especially in the summertime without seeing some of your friends posting pictures of themselves

00:00:26.640 at the finish line of a mud run or obstacle course race events like the warrior dash spartan race

00:00:32.020 tough mudder have become well-known parts of the modern recreational scene and many of you listening

00:00:36.860 have probably done one yourself but why exactly have obstacle course races also known as ocrs

00:00:42.940 exploded in popularity in recent times why do millions of affluent suburbanites pay as much

00:00:48.460 as 200 to have their bodies bruised and banged and sometimes subjected to extreme cold electrical

00:00:53.740 shocks and even tear gas well my guest today has spent the past few years exploring that question

00:00:58.560 and he's made a documentary sharing the answers he's uncovered his name is scott connealy and his

00:01:02.960 documentary is called rise of the suffer fest and in today's show scott and i discuss how the little

00:01:07.820 known origin of obstacle course racing can be traced to a farm in england how an enterprising

00:01:12.660 businessman turned that idea into a multi-billion dollar industry and the cultural forces that

00:01:17.440 provided the soil for obstacle course races to grow so rapidly we also discussed the criticism levied

00:01:22.980 obstacle course racing and what scott thinks the future holds for ocrs a really fascinating podcast

00:01:28.340 if you're a fan of obstacle course races after the show be sure to check out the show notes at aom.is

00:01:33.720 slash suffer fest for a link to the documentary on itunes as well as other resources to delve deeper

00:01:39.880 into this topic all right scott connealy welcome to the show thanks for having me on man so you just

00:01:47.740 come out with a new documentary about obstacle course racing called rise of the suffer fest and this is

00:01:52.180 interesting topic for a documentary what led you down the path of exploring things like warrior dash

00:01:59.900 tough mutters spartan race etc uh it was a bit of a wayward journey to be honest i'm a journalist and i

00:02:08.020 kind of approached it initially as i just thought i'd write a one-off comedic essay about doing a tough

00:02:12.440 mutter and uh from the perspective of a beta male like a self-proclaimed wimp um who trains up and

00:02:19.360 tackles the horrors of a tough mutter and writes a funny essay about it um so my background or my

00:02:23.740 heart is in like kind of i guess confessional storytelling um but while i was doing a little

00:02:28.380 bit of background research into the penny for that essay i stumbled upon a little-known scandal

00:02:34.200 surrounding the origins of tough mutter uh there's a lawsuit between tough guy and tough mutter

00:02:38.720 and i very quickly put that there's a very compelling story there um about ip theft and it had this

00:02:45.360 kind of social network vibe to it so i kind of reinvented myself as an investigative journalist

00:02:50.320 and spent i pitched a story to ed magazine and after about a year of reporting and writing and

00:02:56.160 rewriting it landed on the cover of outside um that led to an opportunity to work with 60 minutes

00:03:01.940 um developing a segment about obstacle course racing and at that point i was so deep into this world and

00:03:08.140 so fascinated by what i had seen that i i thought maybe i should just keep uh stick with this i always

00:03:14.280 love telling stories i always love film so it was kind of a natural fit to try to tell the story about

00:03:19.000 this community and this phenomenon uh with uh film so let's talk about the industry of obstacle course

00:03:26.020 racing because this is something that didn't really exist 10 years ago there's probably a few but it's

00:03:30.200 just blown up in the past 10 years can you give us sort of a bird's eye view of what the industry

00:03:34.860 looks like i mean the size of it and how fast it's grown in the past decade uh in 2009 i think there

00:03:42.060 were maybe an estimated 50 000 people who were running one of these types of events um you know

00:03:48.400 maybe 11 000 people 8 000 people over in england doing tough guy um but it wasn't really until tough

00:03:54.480 mutter came along in warrior dash and spartan race in 2009 2010 that it really kind of exploded um

00:04:01.220 and you know it's hard to get real actual numbers of of the number of unique participants per year

00:04:06.500 um but i would estimate that there's you know upwards of five to seven million worldwide who

00:04:12.600 will do one this year in 2016 so we're seeing like massive explosive growth over a very very short

00:04:19.520 period of time man that is nuts and there's i mean there's a lot there's also not just the big races

00:04:25.480 there's a lot of small regional ones or local ones that have started as well yeah absolutely i mean

00:04:30.780 there are there are thousands literally thousands of different races across the world um and you

00:04:37.040 know we hear obviously about the biggest ones but there are all sorts of local really amazing small

00:04:41.860 community races that that people just put on out of passion um so yeah there's there's a lot of

00:04:46.840 opportunity to explore um different types of experiences and brands right so let's talk about

00:04:53.120 one of the smaller ones that most people don't know about but you make the argument that this was the

00:04:59.300 race that started at all um the inspiration for this obstacle course racing explosion we've seen the

00:05:03.860 past 10 years um it's called the tough guy it's in england and it was started by this really eccentric

00:05:10.140 guy with a handlebar mustache named billy wilson also known as mr mouse can you tell us a bit about

00:05:16.620 mr mouse and this tough guy race how it started and why it started and uh when it started it started

00:05:24.240 back in 1987 uh in january um in the it's in the midlands of england and so it's very very cold that

00:05:32.220 time of year and it started off very simple it was a you know a cross-country course with lots of

00:05:38.060 water obstacles which of course were miserable because it's january in england um hay bales and

00:05:43.240 and over the years it really gradually grew organically and built he built bigger obstacles and

00:05:50.600 um it kind of evolved naturally he'd just come up with these crazy ideas and and execute them and

00:05:56.800 um in 1999 he added electricity to the course which was you know pretty unheard of you know what's so

00:06:03.100 interesting about this is we take it for granted that tough mudder has electricity on a running course

00:06:07.380 but you know 15 years ago that is absolutely insane and uh and was so far out there and he got so

00:06:14.340 much flack for it um people really thought he was he was he was nuts um and so you know he why he did

00:06:21.660 this you know he has a military background and he thought it was a fun way for people to get into

00:06:27.340 shape and also you know he wants to teach people about war and and remind people about of the horrors

00:06:34.460 that you know our ancestors have gone through um i think part of that is like somewhere he he believes

00:06:40.460 that if if we experience the horrors of of war we may be less inclined to go to war um you know as

00:06:47.660 you know these days both of us have there's you know no expectation that any of us will ever have

00:06:51.880 to fight in war so um he's giving us kind of a taste of these horrors so we have maybe more empathy

00:06:57.700 more understanding for for you know the struggle right and how did it inspire tough mudder because you

00:07:03.940 talk about it earlier that there was this sort of ip battle between tough guy and tough mudder can you can

00:07:10.000 give us a little bit of the story there and the controversy sure so will dean the ceo of tough

00:07:14.900 mudder was a harvard business school graduate and he studied he reached out to mr mouse and um said that

00:07:21.160 he wanted to do a help tough guy essentially expand to the u.s um and do a business school study and so

00:07:29.180 he you know got some intellectual property if you want to call it that from mr mouse um and he

00:07:36.460 you know didn't work with tough guy to bring it to the u.s he instead started tough mudder in the usa

00:07:41.960 and so uh mr mouse felt like he was you know had been ripped off and that we had infiltrated his

00:07:48.100 company and stolen trade secrets and and um and will obviously saw it differently and um he was sued

00:07:55.600 and and they settled after a pretty bitter legal battle and um they settled for 725 000 that

00:08:02.200 will paid uh will paid uh to tough guy and you know at the time tough mudder was a pretty small

00:08:08.340 brand so that was a lot of money but you know within a couple of tough mudder became a 70 million

00:08:12.040 dollar brand um and tough guy at this point is still just kind of hanging on yeah let's talk about

00:08:18.100 that why is that why is it the the race that started all the races and why has it not done so well

00:08:24.540 while others have done so well i mean a lot of it it it's mr mouse really i think he's the

00:08:31.100 first of all he he has no real good commercial awareness or marketing sense um and it's not

00:08:37.400 really what he's after i don't think his end goal is to make a lot of money off this i mean it's not

00:08:43.560 he's a i think he'd like to people through this experience and and so um you know the branding is

00:08:50.420 kind of all over the map um it's it's not that scalable because it's a permanent course on his

00:08:56.320 his farm so it's not like he uh is running these races all around the world and you know quite

00:09:04.000 frankly like if from a business standpoint when you look at that farm i mean he mr mouse doesn't

00:09:08.420 use a computer he doesn't have very many mbas in that office to say the very least he doesn't have

00:09:12.520 any it's a real like kind of mom and pop shop over there um it's it's really the charm it's what i

00:09:18.360 love about the event um is it feels very raw and old school and not commercial and and you know

00:09:24.340 that's what i really gravitated towards it felt like a throwback to another era altogether um so

00:09:31.180 yeah you know he's not marketing savvy and and he really never could have scaled this thing up

00:09:37.400 yeah i thought it was funny in the documentary you talk about there's a tough guy newsletter but it's

00:09:42.420 an actual physical newsletter it's sent in the mail no email marketing and he just writes about

00:09:48.700 his donkeys and why donkeys are great yeah the jelly leg news it is so bizarre there are all these

00:09:54.640 stories that kind of have nothing to do with them so whereas i mean you look at like tough mother

00:09:58.120 they're they have social media campaigns they have millions and millions of facebook followers tough

00:10:03.380 guy at this after 30 years almost um and obviously facebook's only been around for six years tough

00:10:08.880 guy has like 35 000 followers uh they don't really have any understanding of how to use social media

00:10:14.200 to leverage it for their own good um so um yeah the jelly egg news is this quarterly newsletter that he

00:10:20.400 you know he said that he spent 60 000 on postage uh one year recently to to uh send it out to people

00:10:29.320 um and gets in there like what the hell is this so it doesn't really but it's you know again part of

00:10:34.040 the charm it's very quirky the man is like wildly eccentric he's just stripped right out of like a

00:10:39.680 daniel day lewis movie right yeah he's sticking to his principles it's the principle of the thing

00:10:44.360 um so let's talk about this because this is the whole this is what your documentary is about you're

00:10:48.820 trying to figure out why obstacle courses are so popular i mean i've done before we've talked about

00:10:54.380 this because um you interviewed me for the documentary i've done obstacle course course races in fact i just

00:11:00.160 did one last weekend uh called conquer the gauntlet here in tulsa and whenever i'm doing them there's

00:11:06.040 this is always this weird existential moment when i'm in the in the middle of the race doing a really

00:11:11.380 hard obstacle climbing under barbed wire and there's smoke and i'm thinking i paid a hundred bucks to do

00:11:17.780 this um when you talk big picture we'll get into the details later on but what are the big driving

00:11:25.000 forces that have made obstacle course racing so popular uh i think you know part of it is is it's

00:11:32.520 hard to like if there were no photos if there's no facebook and no ability for people to post photos

00:11:38.200 i think you would see much much lower numbers um so i think social media by and large is a big

00:11:44.700 motivating factor the ability to brag and and show your friends that you're this brand of tough um

00:11:49.880 you know granted there'd still be people as there were 20 years ago doing tough guy there's still

00:11:54.140 going to be that segment of population that wants to push themselves like this but the ability to

00:11:58.180 humble brag is uh i think a better um and then you know i think a lot of people are realizing they're

00:12:04.500 missing something in their life we've we've created these you know digital worlds in which we spend so

00:12:09.060 much time looking in screens and we're not really connected to earth we're not outside we're not

00:12:13.580 working in our hand with our hands we're not overcoming challenges i mean it seems like the whole

00:12:17.580 by design modern life is meant is you know we're working to remove every single obstacle

00:12:23.920 um from like you know groceries delivered to your door um you know it seems like everything is pushing

00:12:30.640 us towards not having any kind of challenge and i think that ultimately people feel unfulfilled

00:12:35.060 and so when they do these things and they have this kind of sense of achievement crossing the finish

00:12:38.920 line you know it's it's kind of a revelatory experience for them i know it was for me

00:12:43.120 yeah but why not marathons or weight training and what is it about the the obstacle course race

00:12:48.860 that you feel that you get a sense of achievement that you can't get with other activities

00:12:53.480 um yeah i mean marathon running is i think boring um sorry to all you runners out there um

00:13:01.360 boring let's just say boring in comparison it's not boring compared to other things but

00:13:05.040 um i think people want people want to be in shape but they want the experience of getting

00:13:09.920 into shape to be fun and you know these things are like adult playgrounds you get to you know

00:13:15.720 there are some obstacles like you know you tough guy has these massive a-frames that are that are

00:13:20.900 they look rickety they feel old and here you are climbing up over these 40-foot behemoth obstacles and

00:13:27.600 and walking on ropes across them and you know diving into mud pits i mean it just feels like

00:13:32.540 we're playing you know cowboys and indians as kids and what's the breakdown in gender and obstacle

00:13:38.780 course races is there more men than women who take part in these things yeah again all the numbers

00:13:43.740 are really kind of hard to to get real stats but i believe it's around 35 female um you know i looked

00:13:51.400 at this as a a masculinity crisis you know that that's one of the things that i explore in the film

00:13:55.900 and yeah i think for a lot of men this is a chance to do men thing you know do manly things that they

00:14:00.860 don't really ever get a chance to do but it doesn't really explain why there are so many females

00:14:04.980 doing this so there's obviously it's not just a masculinity crisis there are a lot of women in

00:14:09.220 mud yeah what is driving the women then if it's not just about men not feeling manly i think you

00:14:17.720 know some of the other things would be you know just a loneliness and a disconnection that we feel

00:14:22.300 in the digital age like we're very very connected but we're not really that connected we don't do things

00:14:27.160 in groups we don't we don't share communal experiences um we interact a lot through the

00:14:33.480 internet and i think when you know there's this maybe longing for social real-time human interaction

00:14:40.280 um so that kind of community and camaraderie is a big draw for a lot of people right and going back

00:14:45.760 to this whole masculine crisis you talked about that was one of the threads throughout your documentary

00:14:51.040 um you were talking about how when you were about to have your son or you you had your son

00:14:55.720 um you wanted to make sure you had this moment where like am i am i manly am i going to be a good

00:15:02.480 role model or father for my son as you did these races did it help you capture that feeling did it help

00:15:09.560 you become a better man yeah i mean you know there's a point in the film and in my life when a few things

00:15:16.740 hit me at once i had failed miserably on a crowdfunding campaign um to raise move money for

00:15:23.360 this film um and then on that day that the campaign ended starter ended um i ended up quitting a spartan

00:15:29.760 race uh a three mile spartan race totally my spirit broken um burpees and had kind of broken me and and

00:15:37.260 i just didn't feel like i could go on i didn't feel like i could three mile race i was two miles into it and

00:15:41.320 i was just gutted and so right after that i you know i find out that i'm going to become a dad and

00:15:46.320 and and i was terrified you know like i i couldn't make i couldn't finish a race i couldn't make this

00:15:51.960 dream of making this movie happen and i felt like and now i'm going to become a dad and just that

00:15:55.740 that fear is what really kind of motivated me to to want to at least steal up mentally and physically

00:16:02.840 um by you know training and going to crossfit and taking my physical health more seriously

00:16:08.040 and you know trying to instill some grit in myself and take on some of these races and and uh you know

00:16:15.300 conquer them so i could feel more capable and competent as a man um so i would say the you know

00:16:21.220 these races definitely for me changed my life in a really great way the thought that as i quit that

00:16:28.060 three mile spartan race the thought that one day not in a year and a half i would go out to the

00:16:32.900 desert outside las vegas and in 24 and 50 miles at a tough mutter um was you know incomprehensible to

00:16:41.280 me to that man quitting that spartan race um and i think it's really only because of these kinds of

00:16:47.320 events and my my for them you know they kept and the fear of fatherhood all that kind of i guess

00:16:52.680 transformed me and are you still doing them today are you a regular sufferfest attendee yeah and you

00:16:59.660 know that's one of the for me the beauties of these events is that they happen all year round so you

00:17:05.660 know i probably do about one a month um and i like just having on the calendar that i can look forward

00:17:11.340 to and and train up for so right now i'm training for my second crack at the world's toughest mutter

00:17:15.880 which is in november and you know i'm running and doing crossfit specifically be ready for that event

00:17:22.720 um so yeah i i i i can't foresee a time when i would quit these and i look forward to doing

00:17:29.280 anything with my son someday right so just so everyone knows i i do provide a bit of dissent

00:17:34.480 in the documentary but but i do the obstacle course course races and i and i enjoy doing them i'm just

00:17:39.260 sometimes curious about like why am i doing this what's the cultural thing that's driving me to do

00:17:45.580 this i mean i'm trying i guess i'm very i'm ambivalent about obstacle course racing i i mean i'm trying to

00:17:51.080 be thoughtful about why i'm doing this whole thing and for uh more criticism about obstacle course

00:17:55.500 races uh recommend you all check out an article that my wife's uncle who lives in vermont wrote

00:18:00.980 for us a few years ago he's a sort of scraggly yankee vermonter who did a tough mutter with some

00:18:08.020 family and he kind of gave his cranky vermonter description of the experience um so if you're

00:18:13.140 looking for that you can check that out on the site it was pretty funny and um one of the

00:18:17.980 criticisms that he talks about and i've seen levied at obstacle course racing is how

00:18:21.980 hyper commercialized it's become and i went to the spartan race a few years ago and i was just

00:18:26.400 amazed about all these different things the spartan race has to offer now it's not just a race you can

00:18:31.060 go sign up with a spartan race trainer you can go on spartan race cruises there's spartan race racing

00:18:37.360 shoes was that another criticism you came across when you were doing the research for this documentary

00:18:42.180 well i i do appreciate your voice of dissent or you know a healthy measure of sin um in the film

00:18:50.000 and you know you you're not alone i think there's mark morford is a culture critic for the sf uh gate

00:18:58.220 uh sf chronicle and he you know he's not against it he he questions the motivations of people doing

00:19:05.560 this and also like he sees it as an extreme form of like white privilege that that that we uh we go

00:19:12.320 out there and we get tear gas just a little bit but in this like safe kind of controlled environment

00:19:15.740 so you know that was a reoccurring criticism that i would hear is like we're just playing army no

00:19:20.800 there's there's no you can walk off at any point and get a beer and but you feel like you want to

00:19:26.280 pretend that you're playing army and then obviously you know the narcissism of it all it's like the

00:19:31.120 it feeds into that whole like lead generation and here we are posting photos of ourselves and

00:19:35.640 and you know some people take it really way too far and and and uh you know they they get very culty and

00:19:42.800 and uh you know i guess self-righteous and so there are you know those people those elements

00:19:48.340 in any community really where they just take things too seriously um so i think for the general

00:19:53.780 public we can come across as um this people outside of this tribe might not understand why we do this

00:19:59.500 and um there's this line uh that jc hurts who you interviewed for your i've actually encountered her

00:20:06.860 through your podcast i didn't make it into the film but she's talking about crossfit and it also

00:20:11.940 applies to ocr she said like it crossfit was the first thing that made her empathize with

00:20:16.600 evangelical christians because when you feel like you have found like of course you want to tell

00:20:20.960 everyone about it um and so i think a lot of people who find obstacle racing it's it's such an extreme

00:20:26.920 thing in this little subculture that they broadcast it maybe a little bit too much and you know can rub some

00:20:32.560 people the wrong way one of the other criticisms i've seen levied at obstacle course racing is how

00:20:38.280 hyper commercialized it's become i went you know i went to a spartan race a few years ago and i was

00:20:42.540 amazed about all the the different things spartan race has to offer now it's not just the race you

00:20:47.300 can sign up with a spartan race trainer you can go on spartan race cruises you can buy spartan race

00:20:52.820 racing shoes uh was that another criticism you came across when you're doing the research for this

00:20:57.680 documentary uh from you absolutely uh and and and sure i mean but the way i look at it is yeah they're

00:21:08.400 absolutely trying to build lifestyle brands and empires but you know ultimately selling something

00:21:13.800 that's like hard to sell they're selling pain um they are you know i think the ends in this case

00:21:20.560 justify the means like these races are very very expensive to put on a traveling you know global event

00:21:26.280 so you know why shouldn't they be able to market it and and you know recoup costs and get sponsorships

00:21:33.640 and like to me every everything in our world is so sponsored and commercialized like you can't drive

00:21:38.760 down the sunset strip in los angeles without having ads in your face in every direction so to me it

00:21:44.040 doesn't feel any more egregious than just life in western civilization you know right right there will be

00:21:50.540 podcast ads in this podcast just so you know so there you go uh you make an interesting point

00:21:56.380 because i think a lot of people you know don't understand this they see these companies they're

00:22:01.140 making boo coodles of money tough mutter is a 70 million dollar a year company but i what i don't

00:22:07.240 think a lot of people realize is that they're not making much profit these things are really really

00:22:11.780 expensive to put on not only building the course but ensuring it and all that stuff right of course and

00:22:17.000 then you know the money they back in the day in 2009 or 10 you know tough mutter has definitely

00:22:22.080 benefited from dirt cheap facebook ads it was very easy back then to reach potential customers and now

00:22:28.740 you know to run ad campaigns it's obviously very expensive to hit even a fraction of their five

00:22:33.820 million facebook fans a piece so you know there's a lot of marketing costs there's a lot of insurance

00:22:37.820 costs there's a lot of you know and then you know they're building multiple properties like spartan race

00:22:43.040 has a tv show on c now um tough mutter and they also have one on nbc sports tough mutter is um

00:22:50.340 you know they just announced a tv show on cbs um the world's toughest mutter uh which will debut i think

00:22:57.500 on christmas day and air throughout 2017 on cbs sports net so you know they're they're becoming these

00:23:04.660 multimedia um businesses and you know there's a lot of cost to scaling these things up right so

00:23:11.060 speaking of that the idea of the cost of to scale these things what's the future of obstacle course

00:23:16.460 racing i mean let's talk about this first do you think it's going to continue to grow or is this some

00:23:21.080 sort of cultural trend that will peter out you know it's not going to grow much more but it'll still be

00:23:25.920 with us in the background sort of like crossfit um it's a good question i feel like well globally this

00:23:32.960 is definitely growing and spreading and picking up rapidly in markets um in the u.s i i believe

00:23:40.140 tough mutter is probably you know level at the moment and i think spartan race might be growing

00:23:45.380 incrementally um but those days of the explosive massive growth um you know we're not going to see

00:23:51.180 that unless let's say my documentary like you know touches some nerve and and a lot of people see it and

00:23:56.140 um you know feel inspired to do it like in the way that let's say you know born to run had a there's a

00:24:01.860 massive spike in ultra running after that book came out um so short of anything any some kind of

00:24:07.200 miracle like that i don't see a lot of people have made up their mind that we're crazy you know

00:24:12.180 say for every one person who does obstacle racing we have five or ten friends who think we're crazy

00:24:16.380 um and those ten or eight friends whatever it is have made up their mind they would never do it

00:24:21.480 i think like you know this film might have the power to demystify mud and bring cynics into the space

00:24:26.940 thereby growing the sport um but short of that like i don't think it will go away because i feel like

00:24:33.280 it fills it scratches an itch for quite frankly i feel like this is a symptom of a society that's

00:24:40.800 out of step like this wouldn't exist 50 years ago um this doesn't exist in parts of the world where

00:24:47.940 art daily challenges um and so you know it's a symptom but it's also kind of an antidote um

00:24:54.400 it it does scratch the itch that people are missing um hannah rosen who's in the film she wrote

00:25:00.520 the end of men i'm sure you're familiar with her she had this like pretty interesting insight she

00:25:05.120 said she's from israel and she didn't think tough matter would hold any appeal in israel because

00:25:09.320 you know military service is mandatory and tough matter is just kind of like the background of your

00:25:14.300 life like when you're in high school you go on these adventure training sessions and and you know

00:25:18.700 she just didn't think that that would that this the they wouldn't need this outlet but because of

00:25:24.480 the way at least our life is structured now we kind of need this outlet if the zombie apocalypse comes

00:25:30.780 no one's going to be paying to do a tough mutters you know like if if global if things happen in the

00:25:35.660 world around us and so you know we have life changes because of global warming or whatever you know this

00:25:40.920 will go away but other than that i kind of feel like it's here to stay and i and i also think you

00:25:45.300 know spartan race could build this into an olympic sport it i would not be surprised to see

00:25:50.260 obstacle racing in the olympics in 10 20 years yeah i know that's one of joe disson his goals

00:25:56.180 do you think he's actually going to make that happen do you think people will actually want to

00:26:00.760 say like i want to go to a spartan race and watch or is it one of those events uh you know in the

00:26:06.720 olympics where people aren't really watching but it's going on and it's got some legs well it'd have

00:26:12.020 to change completely for it to be an olympic sport they'd have to get rid of a lot of the things that

00:26:16.320 make spartan what it is um but i could absolutely see this i mean spartan race has some of the very

00:26:22.080 best athletes in the world um competing at levels for money um and it's exciting to watch um so i'd

00:26:30.440 be surprised i'd be more surprised not to see this in the olympics in some form than to uh than to see

00:26:36.780 it um because like you know you're testing your entire body um and it's you know in these like

00:26:43.120 kind of fast-paced race formats and uh it's like you know it's like kind of the modern decathlon

00:26:48.120 in some ways right so talking about the financial viability of obstacle course races is it getting

00:26:53.620 more expensive to put these on i mean is there this expectation that they have to be even bigger

00:26:58.800 each time and because of that it's squeezing out the local and regional races um i don't i mean i

00:27:05.460 think in general yeah a lot of those there was a time where people saw the success of tough

00:27:10.520 motor spartan race and and everyone was putting on their own obstacle race and a lot of those have

00:27:14.900 you know kind of shaken out and even some big brands that came in with a ton of money like

00:27:19.360 battle frog um they came in with they have a show on aspn now they came in with millions and millions

00:27:25.700 of dollars um but they came in late and they had you know branding and and they i'm guessing they

00:27:32.200 must have lost five million dollars at least over the past couple years they had a million dollars

00:27:36.320 in prize money last year for you know the elites they sponsored the fiesta bowl uh they're the

00:27:42.480 title sponsor for the fiesta bowl um they just threw hand over fist money at this and they couldn't

00:27:48.060 ever get any traction they had you know under a thousand people at these races so um it's very

00:27:53.280 hard for you know the little local races will continue i'm sure they have their local followings but

00:27:58.560 um there it's hard for brands at this point to to really there's not much room in the industry

00:28:05.180 people like know what they like and they they do those events like savage race tough mudder spartan

00:28:10.080 rugged maniac warrior dash like you know they seem sustainable to me i feel like the the few times

00:28:15.480 i've been to a warrior dash it hasn't done as well like the past few years um to be to never been so i

00:28:22.040 went to the warrior dash world championship to see you know the athletes but i have not done a warrior

00:28:27.660 dash and yeah that that's a brand i don't think is you know they're scaling down as opposed to up

00:28:33.320 they have yeah it's not it's it's not hard it's like that fun like the beer thing you go and you

00:28:39.580 dress up you have a beer i guess people want more they want something more like an actual challenge

00:28:45.720 yeah it's a good gateway and it has been for a lot of people a lot of people would do a warrior dash

00:28:50.140 first because it seems less intimidating but um people realize that tough mudder and spartan race

00:28:54.860 aren't that impossible to do they probably want the social currency that comes with those brands as

00:29:00.860 opposed to maybe a warrior dash right so scott let's say there's a guy listening to this and

00:29:05.660 he's saying to himself i want to try an obstacle course race what's the best way to train for one

00:29:12.140 and this is coming from a guy let's remember that does like one a month so what's the best way to

00:29:17.660 train for these things um i you know i've become a fan of crossfit um and i love trail running i mean

00:29:24.440 i would i'd run and i would i'd do crossfit and and the different grip strength things that come with

00:29:28.600 that like pull-ups um but you know if at the very basics i'd be doing burpees and running you know

00:29:35.400 that that will get you that will get you to the finish line all right that will get you there burpees

00:29:39.420 and running okay that's all you need well scott where can people watch the film uh on itunes um you

00:29:45.900 can download it on itunes it's available now well it's a great film i got to watch it and i'm also i

00:29:50.940 also make an appearance um so if you want to check me make check myself making a fool go check it out

00:29:56.580 hey scott thanks so much for your time it's been a pleasure thanks brett my guest today is scott

00:30:01.920 kneely he produced directed uh the rise of the sufferfest a documentary about obstacle course

00:30:07.400 races it's available on itunes you can find more information at rise of the sufferfest.com

00:30:12.840 also be sure to check out the show notes at aom.is slash sufferfest

00:30:17.100 well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice

00:30:27.560 make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com and if you enjoy

00:30:31.240 the show i'd appreciate it if you give us a review on itunes or stitcher whatever you use to listen to

00:30:35.600 the podcast helps us out a lot as always thank you for your continued support and until next time

00:30:39.840 this is brett mckay telling you to stay manly

The Art of Manliness - September 24, 2016

#237： The Rise of the Sufferfests

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