The Art of Manliness - #245： The Workout the World Forgot

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast so back in 2013

00:00:18.940 i got an email from a french guy named erwan liqueur he said he was the founder of something

00:00:23.240 called move nap and wanted to write an article for us about how to do things like lift and carry

00:00:27.080 a log efficiently what move nap is is a fitness program inspired by the same sort of physical

00:00:32.060 training the ancient greeks and romans used and revitalized in the 19th century by physical

00:00:35.980 culturists like george arbert with his book the natural method and the philosophy behind move

00:00:40.380 nap is simple humans intrinsically know how to physically move their bodies and have an itch

00:00:44.140 to do so in a variety of ways but our sedentary lifestyle and even the way we exercise today

00:00:48.860 has caused us to forget how to move efficiently and proficiently move nap can help you solve that

00:00:53.540 and relearn these basic movements so today on the show i talked to the founder of move nap erwan

00:00:57.500 liqueur and move nap performance director danny clark about what move nap is the sort of things

00:01:01.440 you're going to do in move nap the classical inspiration behind it and how it can help you

00:01:04.760 to become strong to be useful after the show is over check out the show notes at aom.is

00:01:09.280 slash move nap where you find links to resources where you can delve deeper into this topic

00:01:12.760 erwan liqueur and danny clark welcome to the show thanks for having us good morning brett

00:01:22.760 all right so erwan you are the founder of move nap and danny you're the performance director there

00:01:29.200 helping develop curriculum for move nap and we've uh erwan you've actually written a few articles for

00:01:35.500 the art of manliness about natural movement the history of physical fitness so i'm sure a lot of

00:01:41.800 our listeners are familiar with your work and what move nap is but uh for those who aren't familiar

00:01:47.340 with move nap um can you give us sort of the history of it like how did you create this system

00:01:54.960 of physical fitness what's the inspiration behind it it's a mix uh it's a mix of my personal experience

00:02:03.420 and and training and it's uh also inspired by ancient um physical culture physical uh training

00:02:12.500 systems in europe uh but namely and and especially uh what's called the natural method

00:02:21.680 precisely it's it was called a physical virile and moral education by the natural method and this

00:02:30.060 system was founded officially in 1905 by a french navy officer called george hebert and um

00:02:39.480 his idea was that uh people had to be physically and mentally ready for the demands of the the real

00:02:48.220 world um so the training was based on practical natural movements that that are necessary to respond

00:02:58.160 physically in the real world and the motto of this method was to be strong to be useful

00:03:03.960 um so that's my main influence though with the move that method we've made a number of substantial

00:03:12.940 improvements to those ancient ancient methods and that's interesting i mean we you've written about

00:03:19.800 george hebert uh on the site before he's a really fascinating character um in the the the system of

00:03:26.940 cultural or physical culture that he developed i mean why did he feel it was necessary to like develop

00:03:33.780 this and promote it um was there some sort of what was going on in the history at at the time

00:03:39.000 in france and around the world where he said like yeah we need to teach people how to walk how to run

00:03:45.020 how to crawl how to climb

00:03:46.980 because not too surprisingly um back then that's uh more than a hundred years ago

00:03:56.060 people were already uh dealing with the some of the same issues that modern populations

00:04:02.420 deal with which is a lack of physical uh like a physical training like of movement and all the

00:04:10.220 the consequences on health um on fitness that this implies uh back then you know um it was after the

00:04:20.100 industrial revolution so people already were massively transitioning from um living in in on farms in the rural

00:04:30.100 world to living in cities with much less movement with and and the pollution already and uh

00:04:38.620 food started to become different and so altogether there was already a movement uh towards somewhat

00:04:49.300 returning back to nature already back then and returning to nature was also about returning to more

00:04:56.880 natural uh behaviors so natural movement so that's that's what that was one of these um

00:05:03.620 uh main preoccupation but also he had a very uh important event in his life where he had to rescue

00:05:13.500 uh hundreds of people with this with his team with his crew when he was in the navy after the

00:05:21.000 eruption of a volcano and what what he noticed is that a lot of people were unable to help themselves

00:05:29.260 they could not run uh they they they were not fit enough and then his crew was trained by him

00:05:36.620 and they were able to save a number of people so that idea of being strong to be useful

00:05:42.620 uh was very important so uh to wrap that up his mission was to educate people to make sure that

00:05:53.100 that populations back then uh were physically fit and ready for the demands of the real world 0.91

00:06:00.060 and so to that end what sort of skills was he trying to impart with his natural method

00:06:06.700 all the movement skills that are necessary when well when shit hits the fan basically that's 0.53

00:06:17.700 that's when you uh that's when difficult circumstances arise that you realize how vital it becomes to be

00:06:26.820 able to run fast or run for distance or to climb something high or to lift and carry something or somebody

00:06:35.540 heavy um and then jump and balance and do all those movements that are they're natural but that are

00:06:42.740 for the most part forgotten in um in people's daily life all right so uh you you took that sort of idea

00:06:50.900 that georgia i was gonna say jorge i was about to say do the spanish georgias um um did with the

00:06:57.620 natural method and created the move nat system and adapted it um so we'll go to danny on this one so

00:07:02.340 danny what are what are the the big philosophical and practical principles of move now what are you trying to

00:07:08.820 do with this system um well move nat is about developing the lost art of physical competence

00:07:16.580 through these natural patterns that erwan's mentioning um you know in our modern day

00:07:21.300 environments of just cars and stairs and chairs we've sort of eliminated the need to be physically

00:07:26.660 capable but the thing is our bodies need stimulation for ultimately for uh to thrive and that's what

00:07:34.260 this is about um we restore natural movements in a you know a more progressive systematic way um but

00:07:41.860 we still can't deny that movements essentially and fundamentally is our interaction with our

00:07:47.060 environment so um when we think about um you know our culture now we're taught to specialize so early

00:07:56.660 um you know either through sports or academics or we're taught to be basically sedentary

00:08:00.660 um so people never really get the chance to develop these broad-based like unspecialized move

00:08:06.340 unspecialized movement skill sets that we from evolutionary perspective um used to develop it was

00:08:12.900 essential for our survival so through this practice um we try to help we work on helping people escape

00:08:19.220 this you know this vicious cycle of sedentary living that we're seeing in modern day um by learning

00:08:24.740 skills that also have direct practical application to their their modern day lives so um you know it's not

00:08:30.340 just about these big um survival situations i think that we the most important thing is to create a base

00:08:36.660 of movement skills um that set us up to be able to do these high level skills but also directly impact

00:08:44.500 our everyday lives so building efficiency um in in movements so that we can instead of avoiding and

00:08:51.780 being afraid of movements um we can actually become very efficient to movement so that we're actually

00:08:57.380 expending less energy to do the things that we do every day whether it even just be getting up off

00:09:02.420 the ground um running upstairs um carrying things lifting things playing with our children if we can

00:09:09.460 expend half the effort or even less doing this um you know moving becomes less of a intimidating prospect

00:09:17.300 and um helps we can help penetrate people's lives a little bit um better so overall you know move

00:09:24.660 that is about developing sort of these timeless classical skills um that's again directly relate

00:09:31.940 to survival situations but also um really adding meaning to fitness um and exercise for for anybody um

00:09:40.420 not just 20 year olds but anybody from anybody that's human right and it's not just in what i love

00:09:46.180 about moving out too it's you focus on these really basic skills we'll talk about what these basic skills

00:09:50.980 are but it's also getting people back into the wild and like encountering their environment in a more

00:09:56.820 thoughtful way like you want to get out there and see that tree and be like if that's not just a tree

00:10:01.380 it's like a tree i could climb in a certain way and let's see how efficient i can be at climbing that tree

00:10:08.340 sure and i mean it's just remembering that you know uh our ability to climb for example uh isn't

00:10:15.300 something that we're just born with it's something that's that's learned we have to have a reason

00:10:19.380 um you know our body is a system of overlapping systems um strength conditioning perceptual abilities

00:10:26.100 all this this um these dozens of systems that occur and our system has to interact with our outside

00:10:32.500 environment which is a bigger system um and in that interaction movement emerges um these patterns

00:10:39.140 like crawling like climbing um happen but in our modern day environment without the stimulus to

00:10:45.540 the or any reasons to actually use these patterns they they degrade over time uh when we were young

00:10:51.300 we used to do this stuff all the time um but we that doesn't necessarily mean we developed it very well

00:10:56.740 um maybe enough to uh you know get get by in our environment um at a fundamental level

00:11:04.500 but now you know we we enter school and um we're never really given the stimulus to really

00:11:11.620 to really build our ability to move well so um yeah i think it's about it's certainly about being

00:11:17.780 able to climb a tree but i think it's also about all the whole spectrum of movement that that we're not

00:11:24.020 really doing right now um that includes lifting but it's not exclusive to just lifting weights or

00:11:29.700 running it's really everything right right it's those things we take for granted um so erwan in the

00:11:36.660 article you wrote for us a couple years ago about introducing people to uh move nat you made the

00:11:43.380 argument that uh physical fitness kind of got off track so you know uh the natural method this this

00:11:50.900 was part of a larger uh sort of emergence of physical culture in the west right this is when uh barbell

00:11:57.700 training started got it start kettlebell training bodybuilding got it start and um you know indian clubs all

00:12:04.420 that stuff and that's kind of where it's led to this physical this physical fitness industry that

00:12:09.140 we have today but you argue that the physical fitness industry got off track at what at one point

00:12:15.540 um how so and when did that happen

00:12:23.300 the physical uh industry at some point got off track in the sense that it forgot what the body the

00:12:30.740 human body is naturally capable of and actually the fundamental what i believe is a fundamental and

00:12:38.500 universal reason for physical training which is again um real uh real competency physical competency and

00:12:48.900 preparedness for the real world that's the foundation to us and um all the rest is great but it's um

00:12:57.860 it's on top of that it's it's optional it's accessory what is not accessory is your ability to operate your

00:13:05.380 body in useful ways and when i say useful um like danny said we are talking about the day-to-day movements and

00:13:13.220 we are also talking about your ability to respond to more challenging situations to help yourself and to

00:13:20.820 potentially help others and to at least never be helpless to yourself and others so that's

00:13:29.940 that's a principle that's a fundamental principle now so we when you look at the evolution of physical

00:13:37.860 training in history and this used to be the the rule that's what people were looking for primarily it's

00:13:45.460 it's it's that physical competency and preparedness for the real world uh but then it became

00:13:53.780 a lot about what you look like looking fit not making sure that you are fit in the sense of again

00:14:00.820 being able to respond efficiently and effectively to the demands of the real life but to just look

00:14:08.740 fit which is very different so from the primary goal of being physically ready for the real life

00:14:19.860 um the whole industry of fitness has developed towards looking fit but not having any preoccupation about

00:14:32.100 making sure that you are fit that you are physically competent and ready for the real life which is very

00:14:39.060 different and it's not just a change in in goals uh and in expectations because the change in in goals

00:14:50.900 induced a complete change in methodologies used to reach these goals so when you want to train to be ready

00:14:57.380 for the real life you realize that you must be able to jump you must be able to lift and carry and throw

00:15:03.620 and catch you must be able to run and to climb uh and even to to defend yourself you must be able to

00:15:12.580 to perform all these fundamental universal natural movement skills but when you train for looking fit

00:15:20.020 um the methodologies that are you are going to employ to reach uh the the cosmetic standards that you are

00:15:31.700 looking for a certain way of the the body to look like then again the methods you're going to employ

00:15:39.060 they they they tend towards that goal and that's when you end up with muscle isolation and

00:15:47.620 a whole lot of of machines uh designed to shape your movement and shape your body in a certain way

00:15:55.140 and that's when we indeed have completely completely lost track with the original intent of movement which is

00:16:07.060 and the original intent of the body which is uh practical movement and um and this is not to say that

00:16:14.980 move that is not interested in the beauty uh the appeal of an athletic looking uh body um it's just that

00:16:24.820 this is the outcome of how we move and train uh it's a natural movement is going to sculpt natural bodies

00:16:33.380 um and natural looking bodies that are much more balanced than that when you try to isolate

00:16:41.780 the body in parts as if it was made up of of parts the body is not made up of parts the body is a whole

00:16:49.140 unit and it's supposed supposed to function as a unit as as well so um we are trying to bring the

00:16:57.700 industry back towards the fundamental of of movement in the body right and so any uh oh go ahead danny

00:17:06.260 oh i was just going to say to add to that um you know i've been a trainer for a very long time and i

00:17:10.580 i think i've seen overall a shift maybe not in the total mainstream but um it's sort of the um

00:17:18.340 the more you know some some segmented communities in the fitness industry a shift away from purely

00:17:24.820 aesthetic and a little bit more to functional you know than this whole functional fitness

00:17:29.060 sort of craze that came about with kettlebells and crossfit and all these other tools so

00:17:34.100 um and even just strength training and i think i think all that that's part of the industry has

00:17:39.220 evolved a little bit um although again i don't think it's fully penetrated uh the masses but um

00:17:46.100 i still see a lot of isolation in that so okay we're not isolating our biceps anymore but we're

00:17:51.860 still just trying to isolate systems now we're isolating strength okay and now well i have strength

00:17:57.620 but now i don't have mobility so now i need to isolate mobility oh well now i need to isolate

00:18:02.580 conditioning or now i need to isolate my brain and figure out how to piece that all into the puzzle

00:18:07.540 so we have this really compartmentalized view of fitness and this sort of stems from um you know

00:18:12.980 the the therapeutic end of it so trying to restore function like so it makes sense for a physical

00:18:17.380 therapist to isolate um a particular body part or a system um or an athletic setting and definitely

00:18:24.580 trying to isolate a particular system to play it up um but the people that get lost in that are the

00:18:29.780 ones you know the average people the people that are really really movement deficient so none of these

00:18:35.300 systems are functioning optimally or really to any respectable level um or any level that would

00:18:42.340 represent thriving in this world so um trying to compartmentalize and just isolate systems becomes

00:18:50.260 okay now i do strength i do yoga i do this and we're trying to just throw it all together but really

00:18:56.180 there's dozens of systems involved in the in the physiology of your body so what move that is is

00:19:02.740 decompartmentalizing um functional fitness and turning it into something practical something

00:19:08.100 natural something where strength conditioning mobility all these things are in a nice organic

00:19:13.860 balance um and uh it becomes much more efficient so that the people who need it the most especially

00:19:20.900 those that are past their 30s can really reap the benefits of all these benefits of our entire system

00:19:27.140 improving um without the need to become a master of really anything um again that that specialization

00:19:34.500 layer can be added and there's nothing wrong with it but moving that really represents the base of

00:19:38.660 movement that we all should have and um that's that's really what it's about so yeah let's go back to this

00:19:44.420 idea of of looking fit and being fit so i'm sure you all in your teaching have encountered um people

00:19:51.300 from all walks of life and fitness levels and i'm sure you've encountered people who looked like super

00:19:55.460 ripped like they're jacked had chiseled abs like they just they looked like they were fit but any of

00:20:01.860 those people you've encountered like when you actually put them you know to the test like they

00:20:05.620 actually didn't have fitness as as a martial artist i could say i see that all the time um i've been a

00:20:13.460 wrestler and a jiu-jitsu um fighter for a very long time and that's sort of the classic joke is when the

00:20:19.620 the uh bodybuilder or the crossfitter steps into the jiu-jitsu mats and is actually asked to perform

00:20:26.820 a task that's outside their their training and that high level of fitness or the look of fitness

00:20:33.380 they've achieved really means absolutely nothing and when when asked to do something and i would say uh

00:20:39.060 erwan has probably seen lots of this um i witnessed it when i met him and we had an entire group of

00:20:44.900 people uh some of them looked incredibly fit and we you know struggled to do very very basic tasks

00:20:52.020 i've seen this over and over um and i remember my very first uh workshops in the woods of uh west

00:20:59.620 virginia in 2009 and uh uh groups made of diverse people some didn't do any kind of training others were

00:21:10.340 uh back then already into crossfit or or other fitness modalities but everybody had their challenges

00:21:22.020 everybody and including those who did look very fit and that's um

00:21:30.740 again it's a beautiful thing to look to look great to look fit to look athletic and there's really

00:21:37.540 nothing wrong about it but you don't want to uh get lost into self-flattery and also a false sense of

00:21:49.460 physical competency just because you can do a number of pull-ups or you can sprint those are that's great

00:21:57.780 these are our aspects of physical competency that are very important but for instance just because you can do

00:22:07.140 say 20 pull-ups in a row doesn't mean that you know the diverse techniques to climb on top of the bar

00:22:15.380 where you hang from and that's just one example if you apply that to say jumping you can jump up and

00:22:21.460 down a box forever for time for stamina awesome but can you do can you perform that single

00:22:30.260 that single shot that single jump between those two rocks with be able to cross the distance and land with

00:22:41.140 accuracy and and with balance because that's also part of physical competency and this is also jumping

00:22:51.220 and there are many other ways that you can jump that are that are not just jumping up and down a box

00:23:00.340 and that are absolutely crucial and

00:23:03.860 um that idea that you are able to jump anything because you can do those 100 jumps on the box on the box or

00:23:14.500 you can climb anything because you can do those 20 pull-ups in a row on a bar

00:23:20.500 this again is can easily give you a false sense of physical competency but it's only a limited competency

00:23:29.460 that you have and you need to open your mind and open your your training to many more uh aspects of of

00:23:37.940 competency and the the necessary adaptability to varied um environmental or situational demands

00:23:48.900 so let's talk about the specific skill we kind of we've been talking high level here what are some

00:23:53.540 of what are the specific skills that you're trying to impart or reteach people with move net

00:23:58.980 i think that it starts with with the basics um you know it's it's the very simple things that we again

00:24:08.580 don't really our environment doesn't really dictate that we do very much anymore um but simple things

00:24:14.820 like being able to sit on the ground and hold a position for you know 30 seconds or 10 minutes or

00:24:23.460 whatever without your back cramping and without your neck aching um or having to switch positions

00:24:28.820 a million times uh being able to get up off the ground very smoothly and easily um being able to

00:24:34.900 crawl so a lot of the stuff that we start with um are things that um again you did when you were

00:24:41.700 you know it's sort of your original um physical competence quest when you're a baby um but you know

00:24:48.660 just because again you did it back then doesn't mean that you can do it now so much has been degraded

00:24:53.700 over time that that really is the starting point the foundation um and then again it starts to move up

00:24:59.780 uh in domains to some more advanced things um that's like balancing um and all the way to

00:25:09.460 super high level things like again like vaulting and climbing you know a lot of people today have

00:25:16.660 issues simply squatting uh squatting up uh and down and also uh just holding a deep squat for instance

00:25:24.980 that's just one example of some of the limitations that most modern people face today um they would have

00:25:33.940 problem hip hinging um which is also a fundamental movement patterns so when people have those two issues

00:25:41.860 to begin with how are they going to be able to jump and land um properly efficiently and safely there's

00:25:50.980 no way uh it's gonna be it's gonna be challenging so working on the fundamental movements uh is is

00:26:00.980 essential to eventually be able to to be ready for the more explosive more demanding movements and also

00:26:09.140 the more challenging environments so if i'll take the example of jumping for instance uh we're not

00:26:17.860 going to ask you to jump right away uh between you know like clear an obstacle with the real elevation and

00:26:26.340 no you you're going to start learning the technique at ground level on a short distance where it is uh easy and

00:26:34.500 where you will uh first learn efficient and efficient pattern efficient technique then we will increase the

00:26:43.380 intensity then we will increase the complexity or of the environment where you jump so there are progressions

00:26:50.660 that are that are necessary uh so that people can learn actually faster than just uh trying the hard stuff

00:26:58.420 right away and uh they also can do it um in a way that is safe for their body right and so it's not

00:27:05.780 just crawling it's not just jumping i mean when i did the um seminar a few months ago like we dedicated

00:27:11.380 a section to just how to hold things like heavy things efficiently which is something you don't you

00:27:16.660 take for granted but like if you think about it's amazing if you actually take some time to think about it how

00:27:21.220 you can position your body or your hands or your arms in a way where you can take this heavy odd object

00:27:27.860 and make it actually comfortable to carry um it was amazing how much of a change that can happen

00:27:32.980 have in your life that's the that's the beauty of technique and movement efficiency uh you know in

00:27:39.460 the fitness industry or at least the what i like to call the old school fitness industry bodybuilding type

00:27:45.300 and and and so on uh they make simple movement look complex and difficult like a biceps curls for

00:27:55.060 instance like it looks like it you need a whole whole technique and a certain way to to do it which

00:28:01.060 is in part true but come on that's a bicep curl right um but we make movement that are actually

00:28:08.420 complex complex complex complex movement we make them look easy because of practicing efficiency

00:28:17.860 which means to be really agile and and light and and accurate and smooth um but the truth is that

00:28:26.260 those movements to look like this and feel like that um it requires practice and that's the difference

00:28:33.620 between what i call primary nature the primary nature of movement which is that natural movement

00:28:39.380 is innate in all of us and that's for sure we all have a certain ability to perform these movements

00:28:48.100 that does not need to be taught however efficiency in these natural movements that what needs to be taught

00:28:55.620 and learned or and trained uh consistently because this is not for granted and this is what surprises

00:29:02.260 people when they're asked to do the simplest movements a simple get up you get up and get down from ground

00:29:09.380 to standing standing to ground and then they realize that they are off balance they realize that they need

00:29:14.180 their hands they realize that they are stiff all over they realize that they are holding their breath

00:29:19.300 they realize that those movements they took for granted actually they haven't practiced them in years

00:29:25.380 and they're not that good at it and those movements nonetheless are um essential to life

00:29:33.540 they are your basic function actually uh there's a study that was uh done in brazil

00:29:41.140 where um the ability to get down and get up from the ground without using your uh your knees and without

00:29:50.660 using your hands especially was a predictor of life expectancy uh so if you were able uh to

00:30:02.340 get up and get down without using your hands uh you had a longer life expectancy that people who had to

00:30:10.020 use their hands and had trouble basically doing the movement and in fact it makes sense because from a

00:30:16.660 biological standpoint why on earth would would you want to have a long life expectancy if your body is

00:30:24.660 dysfunctional and the same is true with grip strength uh if you don't have the people who have greater

00:30:31.700 grip strength the people who are in the hospital will get out of the hospital faster than the people who have

00:30:38.420 weaker grip strength why on earth would you have greater health and and life expectancy if you don't have basic

00:30:48.660 strength in your hands right so that's that it's all you know mobility balance coordination strength

00:30:59.060 all of that is necessary for a body to be healthy to be truly functional and uh and to live long and to live

00:31:07.540 with high quality so through those natural movements you restore that potential and then you maintain

00:31:17.540 it for as long as you can right going on that study about mortality rates and be able to get off the

00:31:22.340 ground i read another study or an article it's just talking about um one reason why people in japan might

00:31:29.460 live longer um than people say in america is that in japan the bed is usually on the floor right in

00:31:36.260 in the retirement homes like these old people in retirement homes homes are constantly having to 1.00

00:31:40.020 get up off the floor and they can do it because they they do it all the time and they have that

00:31:44.340 strength that coordination to do it but here in america it's like not like you might be in a bed that

00:31:49.700 sort of lifts you up you lift yourself out of the beds you don't use any of those muscles and so

00:31:53.780 the mortality rate increases because we've lost that ability to get off the ground exactly so it means that

00:32:00.260 your environment dictates your movement behavior so you have two choices here and actually they are

00:32:09.540 complementary one is that you can change your environment so you can go for less furniture or

00:32:16.660 different furniture so that at least your your day-to-day movements are changed they are they require

00:32:23.300 more range of motion they require more attention and effort on your part that's one way um but the

00:32:30.740 other way is to simply realize this okay um there's nothing in my in my life that demands that i run and

00:32:39.940 sprint that demand that i balance and jump that demand that i crawl low on the ground zero no i don't need it for food

00:32:47.300 to get my food to get my food i don't need it because there's no uh actual danger in my life or or

00:32:53.540 necessity like that and i don't make a living because uh i have to move in all these these ways however

00:33:04.180 i can devise a strategy um so that i make those movements um possible again and that's the idea is that

00:33:14.580 you want to have a vision of yourself of a person who has who possesses these skills that strength

00:33:23.380 those physical qualities and you need to to practice and even when the necessity to perform

00:33:31.780 these movements and these efforts is not there you are going to create uh even if it's just in your mind

00:33:39.620 the conditions so that you can have your body behave in the way it's supposed to behave and

00:33:47.860 that's natural movement and that's movement yeah i think this is super powerful for um you know again

00:33:53.620 i work with um an older population often and adding meaning to movements um that directly carry over to

00:34:01.780 their life such as getting up off the ground crawling um you know practicing these movements is life

00:34:08.740 changing um for them um you know uh and it's it can be and it's it's a base for anybody so actually we

00:34:16.580 have a uh of our uh team instructors uh cameron um he's based in houston and he he's been working with

00:34:24.420 a group of uh war veterans uh who are disabled who lost a limp um who served the country but uh then they

00:34:34.180 come back and their day-to-day life is completely changed because they their body is has changed and

00:34:41.220 um uh using the the move not uh methods and principles and techniques he's been able to teach these

00:34:50.980 these guys to be able to for instance get back to get down to the ground and back up on their own

00:34:59.060 um without uh assistance and that was again another life-changing uh experience or event in their lives

00:35:10.420 uh because that's autonomy and that's um that's a beautiful thing to see so um it doesn't matter

00:35:18.180 uh what are the conditions in your life that uh led you to uh to be either you know of a way or or

00:35:27.140 or dysfunctional um i mean life is not easy and it can really be harsh but what i want to express here

00:35:34.900 is that there are methods out there that exist that are going to re-empower you to support your

00:35:41.700 self-empowerment through movement through movement that is useful does not aim at making you look good

00:35:48.980 in the mirror but that that is designed to make you perform again and be empowered through sometimes

00:35:57.940 performing again the simplest movements yeah the uh getting up off the floor without using your hands

00:36:04.260 or knees that's not a joke like that is hard and you probably remember like it took me a while to get

00:36:10.340 that and it hurt like it was like because i hadn't done that in years but once i was able to do it it's

00:36:16.260 actually pretty cool it's like hey i don't i don't need a a chair i don't need a bed to get off the

00:36:21.700 ground i can just use my own two feet and make that make that get up i mean it's awesome yeah absolutely

00:36:29.700 and that's that's how it should be because when you can get up and off the ground more easily you're

00:36:34.740 more likely to get on the ground and you know again uh for some people being able to get on the ground

00:36:41.060 feel comfortable there is going to have them interact with their kids their grandkids more often

00:36:46.260 um and then for the young bucks who aren't really that motivated by these like sort of simple or um

00:36:54.260 what they would consider probably like old people stuff or whatever uh you know there's this whole

00:36:58.660 other layer and this is what is incredible about move net of these high level skills that are about

00:37:04.180 being helpful and useful um for survival situations and that's sort of what resonated with me

00:37:10.020 was okay i can use this professionally um and then i can i can benefit from this practice

00:37:15.140 personally there's this compelling um meaning to to my fitness it's not just about uh vanity it's not

00:37:22.820 just about a certain quantifying my fitness and hitting a certain number and now is about something

00:37:28.180 a little bit bigger than me um and and and for me that that gives me a lot of personal personal

00:37:33.700 satisfaction um it's very intuitive and it's uh it's it's a pretty cool thing it's an incredible movement

00:37:39.780 right right yeah but i love about go go ahead erwan did you have something oh brett uh sorry to

00:37:44.260 interrupt but uh uh so i love what danny said and and actually uh i wanted to express something that

00:37:50.020 uh the you know the people whoever is in is into the art of manliness is i believe going to really

00:37:57.540 relate with is that idea that um so there's no rite of passage uh in our modern societies anymore

00:38:04.420 um or practically none and um that idea that you can embrace physical training not just to look good

00:38:16.420 which will happen by the way but not for that reason not even just for yourself but for yourself and

00:38:24.740 others it's your you turn it you turn your physical training into a constant rite of passage where

00:38:31.860 with every progress you make your ability to to help others uh if needed to serve others in that in

00:38:40.660 that way uh is um is greater uh with your personal physical accomplishments and progress you become more

00:38:50.820 potentially more helpful to yourself but also your neighborhood your community or even perfect strangers

00:38:56.980 um and that is a very important psychological asset not only to grow that self-confidence when you walk

00:39:07.540 the streets and you know that you can do pretty much anything um if anything happens but you know that you

00:39:15.860 won't be helpless to yourself of others because you have learned to be helpful helpful or useful to yourself and

00:39:24.180 others through your physical practice and this is relating back to that idea of moral uh

00:39:33.860 moral education that was so uh dear to george hebert uh he talked about this physical

00:39:41.380 viral and moral education by the natural method uh it's that idea that it's not just physical

00:39:47.540 it's also about mental fortitude uh whenever whenever it's needed and ultimately it's about the intention

00:39:57.060 that guides you which is which is the difference between right and wrong that idea that um you can do

00:40:04.260 something good in your life and that you can be useful to others um it's a moral component that is that

00:40:11.460 that never goes old never gets old it's it's timeless it's universal and um and move that training

00:40:21.300 um

00:40:23.620 also embraces that approach that philosophy it's not just physical and even though the physical part is

00:40:31.140 uh obviously the foundation and the main focus ultimately we want to to equip people with the

00:40:39.460 the the physical skills the physical qualities but also the the mental and moral qualities and values

00:40:46.980 that make them better people in this world i mean that's one thing i loved about moving out at the

00:40:52.020 seminar when we were learning these skills like for example when we were learning how to throw right

00:40:56.420 you learn how to throw and moving that um with heavy medicine balls but like you're always trying to

00:41:01.140 bring it back to like okay when would you use this well you might use this when you're throwing sandbags in

00:41:05.460 a chain to stop a flood or you're carrying heavy odd shaped objects and like well this is something

00:41:12.500 you probably do if you're helping you know your old neighbor move mulch bags in her yard um to clean

00:41:18.660 things up it's always bringing it back to how is how can this be useful to others and it's not just

00:41:24.660 a sort of a self-gratifying aesthetic thing it's all about be fit to be useful right it's true

00:41:31.380 some movements uh some movement skills some techniques they are it's not about intensity it's not about

00:41:36.580 strength it's not about explosiveness it can be just as simple as the accuracy you need in uh

00:41:45.060 eye hand coordination to throw and catch a shovel an axe a piece of equipment that's uh

00:41:52.820 uh or or tool that's going to be uh important in a given situation and i think it's an incredible

00:42:01.220 concept too because you know for me i've been i started wrestling competitively when i was four

00:42:06.020 years old and um to be able to find a philosophy and an entire movement system that has a biological

00:42:15.300 basis but also is not about competition inherently against others um is really interesting to me

00:42:21.940 um and it has implications for my own life and that i can i can truly make my practice not about

00:42:30.820 this alpha i'm gonna go beat someone thing it's truly for me and it's truly for others um with a

00:42:36.340 young son of two years old you know i think that that's pretty powerful um and i think that a little

00:42:44.020 there's nothing wrong with competition but if that if that sort of philosophy can rub off um i think it

00:42:49.620 can help balance out our competitive nature a little bit i think there'd be some positive

00:42:53.460 implications for for society and for individuals who are bogged down by everything being about

00:42:58.980 competition uh you can certainly use this to be an extremely powerful competitor as uh you know mma

00:43:06.740 fighter carlos conda did and many others um or even myself have but uh to be able to do something

00:43:13.780 that's not always about competition is is um is is powerful right and i think it's an important

00:43:21.140 point to make is that move now isn't supposed move that doesn't have to replace your current uh

00:43:25.940 fitness modality if you have an area of focus like strength training or running or brazilian jujitsu or

00:43:32.260 whatever um move that can be a supplement to that so i mean talk about how can you know working on your

00:43:37.780 crawling or working on your climbing make you a better say power lifter for example um i think in

00:43:45.940 in many ways um first of all uh any any specialized sport or practice um has trade-offs associated with it

00:43:55.540 so um you know in in a way you're extending the longevity of your practice um of your particular

00:44:04.420 sports so you know someone like a power lifter uh like i i was into that for a little bit um

00:44:10.340 you know there's there's going to be certain injuries that come about with overuse um and by by

00:44:17.940 practicing um natural movements or a broader spectrum of movements um you can negate some of

00:44:24.100 those effects i think that's what cross training essentially is all about um but instead of doing

00:44:29.300 something else that's also more strength to try and negate that or very extreme that needs a lot

00:44:34.100 of recovery you're doing something that um could be restorative like crawling um i think that

00:44:40.740 crawling and climbing both build a tremendous amount of structural integrity that um lifting can but not

00:44:47.460 always does uh can do so again relating it back to myself um i don't really max deadlift very much

00:44:55.380 anymore um i just i focus on adding more complexity to my deadlifting um but so but i went and

00:45:04.100 deadlifted the other day for the first time and was pulling over 400 for multiple reps um and it

00:45:10.020 wasn't because i was on a power lifting cycle it was because the quality of my joints my overall

00:45:17.700 uh function of my body um how it's tied together has improved through doing these other patterns um

00:45:25.540 so i think that it can benefit you know you in a lot of different ways i think too from um for sports

00:45:32.420 sports that require a ton of perceptual abilities uh like mixed martial arts or any any combat sports

00:45:39.780 um even any sort of like ball sports um or some sport that requires a lot of jumping or skiing

00:45:47.140 working on your general ability to uh to be able to perceive your environment um i think carries over to

00:45:56.180 your specific um tasks so i think a great example was erwan's work with carlos condit where um

00:46:04.980 you know he carlos has a very specific strategy to be able to um beat high level opponents um but by

00:46:13.540 working on his specific footwork um and his perceptual abilities and jumping um he was able to

00:46:20.580 make some changes to his strategy to just put himself in better positions um so putting your

00:46:26.340 any generally anytime you put yourself outside of the same patterns you do all the time there's a lot

00:46:31.380 of opportunity for growth yeah i can i can attest the fact that moving that can help your strength

00:46:37.060 training um you know i primarily do barbell training but you know one issue i've had uh just from i think

00:46:43.620 it's just from sitting down all the time that's what i do most of the time is i got really tight in

00:46:48.420 places like my chest or my hip abductors um and doing some of the movement progressions and move

00:46:54.420 nat has helped open those things up so that i can get a little bit lower or i can get the bar in 0.98

00:46:59.940 position on a low bar squat easier before i mean i was so tight in my chest i couldn't even do it at

00:47:06.020 the beginning but doing some of the opening movements with move nat has completely increased

00:47:11.620 that flexibility so i can get in that position comfortably and there's there's a lot of benefits from

00:47:17.380 adding you know a heavy loads and you know we view in move nat that lifting isn't something separate

00:47:23.060 from natural movement lifting is just a part of natural movements um so when you're lifting you're

00:47:29.300 still practicing natural movements um but uh there's a lot of you know because of the the movement deficit

00:47:38.580 that happens when we stop playing when we stop um growing in our environment as as youngsters um we start

00:47:45.940 sitting a lot in school a lot of the the function of our torso whether it be your pelvic floor all

00:47:52.500 these uh whether it be your posture um just your general positioning they they can degrade and just

00:47:58.820 lifting heavy isn't necessarily gonna activate your full potential so by more movement variety more

00:48:05.140 stimulation of your body and a lot of different planes of motion that lifting sort of ignores or doesn't get

00:48:10.340 a chance to um stimulate you absolutely can improve your your lifting um i think the more your general

00:48:16.820 movement ability increases the more any specific movement ability is going to increase as well

00:48:23.220 there's also uh uh that culture of uh muscular tightness muscular hardness um especially in the the

00:48:32.820 the strength circles um even that idea of irradiation where you want every muscle possible in your body to

00:48:41.460 contribute um and to to create some tension but the problem is that uh movement efficiency doesn't

00:48:49.060 work that way and uh you need that that selectivity intention selective tension and that also means the art of

00:48:57.460 of relaxation in movement and we know that the uh elite athletes are amazing at relaxation actually and

00:49:06.660 when we talk about relaxation i'm not talking about relaxing by the pool and drinking hotels all day

00:49:12.340 or stretching all day i'm talking about relaxation in movement um and so we we don't have that culture of

00:49:20.580 muscular tightness actually it's the opposite we want the body to be uh more relaxed um we want the

00:49:28.260 muscles to be more relaxed because when they are more relaxed then it means that your patterns are more

00:49:32.740 fluid and uh and accurate but it also means that you can produce force better and so it's not a surprise

00:49:41.780 that the people who are saying to uh strength but also who have that mentality of constant you know

00:49:50.020 maximum tension and tightness are going to actually see uh strength um i mean uh gains in strength by

00:49:59.460 simply learning to relax yeah relax that's hard to do um to learn how to relax muscles and to breathe

00:50:08.420 and to breathe right it's one of those things you take for granted so let's talk about this so people

00:50:14.100 we talked about move now there's some basic skills there's crawling there's balancing there's throwing

00:50:18.980 there's hanging from a bar um and moving out there's this thing called progressions um where you kind

00:50:25.460 of progress from one movement to to another you know for those who are listening to the podcast like i

00:50:29.780 want to give this a try what would like a typical movement progression look like for a beginner who's

00:50:35.380 just starting um so if we look at like one movement domain or aptitude such as balancing

00:50:42.580 it would be as simple as starting on a two by four at ground level so being able to walk forward and

00:50:49.620 backwards or maybe even turn yourself around on um a fairly wide object that's still for most people

00:50:56.980 will still be a challenge to be able to spend a couple minutes on there um and be able to you know learn how

00:51:02.660 to effectively counterbalance um to be able to be able to relax and breathe and not be overly tense um or flailing their

00:51:09.940 arms all over the place so that would be like the starting point and then to progress from there

00:51:14.740 we can change either volume intensity or complexity and for those that are in the strength industry

00:51:21.220 volume and intensity are very familiar so volume would be just doing more of that same exact thing

00:51:27.300 um intensity would be we could add a load um to that um while you're doing it so we can add a carry

00:51:34.660 now so you're holding something while doing that uh that balancing sequence um or we can add complexity

00:51:42.340 and that's sort of the forgotten training variable in in classical training which is we can change the

00:51:47.940 object itself uh we can make it a more narrow surface like a rail we can elevate that surface um

00:51:55.220 and you'll find that as that that complexity increases you have to sort of relearn the pattern

00:52:01.380 uh standing on a two by four is much different than standing on a rail and standing at ground level

00:52:07.540 is much different than standing each feet above the ground um so it's not always about new shiny

00:52:14.820 movements you know flashy stuff it's just about adding that complexity as well as the volume and

00:52:19.700 intensity to progress um in a very systematic and safe way um if you just if we just had somebody um

00:52:26.500 starts by balancing at heights could you imagine the the second they stop breathing they're going

00:52:32.020 to fall um and they're probably not going to be breathing because of how afraid they are

00:52:36.260 so in move now we make these skills very very attainable but we use incremental steps so that

00:52:42.580 uh you know anyone from a from a youngster to a um senior can can move through these progressions

00:52:50.580 to the level that they feel comfortable with and what they what they want to achieve

00:52:53.860 yeah i love that the uh two by four is a great i mean i just if you if any of you are interested

00:52:59.220 in the move net like that's it cost a few bucks i have one in my living room and every time i walk

00:53:04.740 by it i'll occasionally balance across it or i'll stand on it for a while and try to crouch down

00:53:11.460 um and just i've been able to incorporate that into my just my daily routine it's not that hard to

00:53:16.660 do i don't have to set aside time for move now it just becomes a part of my day it sounds so simple

00:53:22.820 um and you can't tell someone it's one of those things you have to try it to really understand

00:53:29.300 how profound it is how interesting it is how engaging it is um to be able to do this type of

00:53:34.820 stuff uh if you're just used to the classical just lifting and calorie burning type of fitness um it

00:53:41.460 might sound boring um i certainly didn't try it until i just kind of forced myself into a retreat with

00:53:47.300 erwan and from there i'll just it opened up my entire world of new possibilities of uh viewing

00:53:53.220 movement as a skill um and feeling the benefits of that skill improvements it's to me just as rewarding

00:53:59.300 as a max deadlift if not more i'd say it's more in line with being able to uh win a win against a

00:54:06.420 high-level jiu-jitsu competitor that sort of gratification as you feel your skill level increase

00:54:11.620 right your trust and and belief come through practice um i know that danny could talk about

00:54:19.860 the science between all these movements um in a very precise way and uh but but the truth is that

00:54:29.380 ultimately really boils down to practice and and then observe and feel because it's going to happen

00:54:37.220 it's going to take place in your body more than it takes place in your mind uh you'll have an

00:54:43.140 experience of of what it is and what it brings to your body to what it can do um and it's um it's

00:54:51.700 to whoever has practiced move that they are they are really often shocked by how much difference it makes

00:55:00.180 um and including in their specialty training in their what is whatever is their forte that they are

00:55:08.340 into lifting into running into uh grappling into whatever because they get to be exposed uh physically

00:55:17.220 to all those different patterns and and physiological and physical adaptations that they are not exposed to

00:55:24.900 when they only practice their specialized sports so let's talk about this we've we've

00:55:30.100 been very basic and i'm sure there's people who are listening to this like oh okay crawling okay

00:55:34.900 balancing on a two by four it sounds like kids stuff or old people stuff but to give us an idea of

00:55:40.420 how you know where move nat can go um as far as complexity in in the the yeah just the complexity

00:55:47.380 of it and the the skill required to do it can you talk about some of the feats of strength and agility

00:55:53.060 that an instructor needs to accomplish in order to become i guess the highest is level three certification

00:55:59.060 in the move nat system right now i mean what are some of the stuff they have to do in order to get

00:56:02.900 that certification because i think it's it's pretty insane with some of the stuff they have to do

00:56:08.340 yeah sure um it's it's it's an extension of the basics but it requires again more volume intensity

00:56:15.860 and complexity with a higher emphasis on adaptability um through complexity through moving through complex

00:56:22.020 environments so um instead of again just testing um well first of all we test the full spectrum so

00:56:30.180 we're not we don't expect just competency and just being able to jump or just be able to balance you have

00:56:36.820 to be able to lift as well um for example in the last level three we did um we were outside um for the final test

00:56:45.460 we did an entire outdoor portion and um we had people uh all of our candidates pick somebody up

00:56:55.380 over their shoulders and like a fireman's carry position so uh the person's you know like you're

00:56:59.860 carrying them like a fireman would most people are familiar with that it's a skill we do go over

00:57:04.900 in level two and then you're walking across a muddy stream and then we were doing uh like a squat

00:57:13.300 to where they had to squat down to hips below their knees uh five times with the person on their back 0.52

00:57:21.140 so it's not just testing the strength of course there's a huge strength component to that you're

00:57:25.620 you're squatting your own body weights but you're also testing their ability to uh successfully actually

00:57:31.860 pick someone up and do something to be able to carry someone to be able to deal with the the slippery

00:57:37.620 surface and this isn't something that we expect somebody this is why we have prerequisites well

00:57:44.100 someone has to have earned their level two already to do this so if i just had someone off the street

00:57:49.140 do that uh expecting to earn a level three certification they would probably drop the person

00:57:53.780 but these people have earned that uh that's that ability to do that and if they haven't then they

00:57:59.780 don't do it and they have to come back and earn that adaptability that's just one example um

00:58:04.820 um you know uh we have precision landings which involve stepping up onto a rail at elevation jumping

00:58:13.220 to another narrow surface six or seven feet away and being able to we call stick your landing um meaning

00:58:20.260 your feet make contact uh and you don't just fall off you're able to actually gain control over your

00:58:26.420 landing stand up and step off uh and these are just examples um we require again in level three

00:58:34.740 instead of just a basic uh pull up even in level two we require the ability to get over an object

00:58:40.980 like over a bar instead of just being able to do a pull up through various techniques that uh we have

00:58:46.980 in the movement system um but in you know in level three we require even more power so it's not just

00:58:53.620 your um your technique it's your technique and your ability to generate power to be able to do a

00:58:59.940 power up um which is like a muscle up and get on top of a bar and then balance for a distance over

00:59:07.380 a complex surface so it's really kind of the apex of um bringing in the volume intensity and complexity

00:59:14.580 to the patterns we learn but i tell uh the student you know the students that this is like learning

00:59:20.340 your black belt and you know in natural movements but just like in jujitsu a black belt doesn't really

00:59:26.020 mean that you're very good yet just means you've achieved a baseline level of mastery of the

00:59:31.380 movements the ability to um perform the movements with control with a level of technique it's still

00:59:38.740 just the starting point it's just the entry point into what it can become and that's why i like to

00:59:43.460 think about uh move net as really the martial arts of movement it's an ongoing evolution that really

00:59:50.420 never stops right so there's a lot of room for growth so it's not just crawling you know army crawl

00:59:55.780 like there's a possibility where you can get really advanced so you're never going to stop learning

00:59:59.700 you're never going to stop progressing and move net um and the point isn't to make these positions

01:00:05.220 hard it's to make it so that they're effortless that's the long-term goal uh you know for me as a

01:00:10.660 power someone who is into power lifting and even martial arts i used to be afraid to i would hate to

01:00:16.100 admit it but to go on like long hikes because i would fatigue out faster to go jumping on rocks all the

01:00:21.300 time as much as i enjoyed that type of stuff i just didn't really have the efficiency so it was

01:00:26.660 sort of something i wouldn't do and move that we developed such a high level of efficiency that

01:00:32.340 you know these type of things aren't taxing they're actually easy and that's what we're looking for

01:00:37.460 you're not passed just by doing them they have to look absolutely effortless

01:00:43.300 well guys this has been a great conversation where can people like if they wanted to start moving

01:00:47.140 at right where can they go is it the best way to go to a seminar if there's not a seminar nearby are

01:00:51.380 there videos online or courses they can take online to start with moving at i think the most important

01:00:58.740 thing um if possible is to attend either a workshop or a certification we're trying we're working on

01:01:04.900 making that more available to more diverse regions um so keep an eye out on that if you go to the website

01:01:10.980 and you don't see one in your area stay tuned because we're going to have them all over the place very

01:01:16.020 soon uh nothing really substitutes that coaching experience you know to be able to have someone

01:01:21.220 look at your movement level and uh progress and be able to figure out what can help you improve uh so

01:01:28.580 mentors and coaches are so important with this type of stuff that said uh as an introduction to natural

01:01:34.420 movement if you sort of want to get started um everyone has a book coming out uh very shortly um

01:01:40.100 um that is about the practice of natural movement and um we have videos on um on youtube and um i have

01:01:49.140 an entire instructional series called from the ground up on our website that can uh that's in our journal

01:01:55.140 section that you can start to see some of these movements uh there's some instruction in it um so you

01:02:00.820 can start to play around with it uh so there's there's a variety of resources it's really easy to get

01:02:06.340 involved but i really think nothing substitutes attending a workshop or a certification

01:02:10.420 we're one of the core danny clark thanks so much for your time it's been a pleasure

01:02:14.820 thanks so much brett thank you brett it's been a pleasure too my guests today were erwan

01:02:19.620 the core he's the founder of move nat as well as danny clark the performance director at move nat

01:02:23.460 you can find more information about move nat and how to get started at move nat.com

01:02:28.420 and also check out the show notes at aom.is slash move nat where you find links to resources

01:02:33.460 where you can delve deeper into this topic

01:02:46.900 well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice

01:02:50.980 check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com our show is edited by creative

01:02:55.300 audio lab here in tulsa oklahoma if you have any audio editing needs or music production needs

01:02:59.220 check them out at creative audio lab dot com as always i appreciate your continued support

01:03:03.540 and until next time this is brett mckay telling you to stay manly

The Art of Manliness - October 20, 2016

#245： The Workout the World Forgot

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