The Art of Manliness - #286： Not Afraid

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast now one of the

00:00:18.580 most heart-wrenching things that happened to a man is losing his young wife to death becoming

00:00:23.240 a widower but also being left alone to a father a baby compounds the heartache it's something

00:00:28.360 that happened to theodore roosevelt and also to my guest day on the show his name is daniel bolelli

00:00:32.260 he's professor of history host of the podcast history on fire and the drunken taoist an amateur

00:00:37.380 mixed martial artist and the author of several books including not afraid and on the warrior's

00:00:40.980 path today on the show daniel and i discuss why a bookworm like him started fighting how combat

00:00:46.380 sport fighting grounds us in reality and the forgotten philosophy of bruce lee we then talk

00:00:51.420 about his experience losing his wife to an aggressive brain tumor what it was like raising a child by

00:00:55.760 himself and how martial arts in theodore roosevelt provided him strength and inspiration during a

00:01:00.520 harrowing time in his life after the show's over make sure to check out our show notes at aom.is

00:01:04.900 slash not afraid where you can find links to resources where you can delve deeper into this topic

00:01:08.580 daniel bolelli welcome to the show

00:01:25.760 thank you so much for having me uh so you've written several books um we're going to talk about

00:01:30.020 today on the warrior's path not afraid you also have a podcast called the drunken taoist um and we

00:01:36.260 can talk about that if you'd like to but you have a really interesting background you're a college

00:01:41.320 professor but you also take part in mixed martial arts we've had a guy like you on before um jonathan

00:01:48.660 gotchul who wrote a book called uh you know uh professor in the cage um but i'm curious you you

00:01:56.340 egghead types professor types who also punch people in the face um i mean what got you started with

00:02:03.500 martial arts and um i mean why did you start why did you decide that's something you had to do

00:02:08.020 i think for me it's a matter of balance is precisely because i spent so much time in my head and i grew up

00:02:14.860 reading a lot and being a bit nerdy it was important to develop another side to my personality

00:02:21.040 a living stereotype you are the nerdy guy who's maybe sensitive and smart but you're completely

00:02:27.000 divorced from physical reality and you are just a dream and that did not really appeal to me

00:02:32.920 that much i'm i'm interested in figuring out how to combine the best of different words

00:02:39.480 so to me it's having to choose between being uh strong and being intellectually driven it's a bad

00:02:48.260 choice why not both uh and that applies to everything why should you have to be just uh you

00:02:54.340 know we have the stereotype if you are a sensitive person then you can't be tough and assertive if you

00:03:00.340 are tough you're supposed to have no feelings um i kind of don't buy these dichotomies i feel that you

00:03:06.100 become a greater more interesting human being you get to touch life more if you experience it in

00:03:13.640 all sort of different ways so for me martial arts was about balance was i was too a bit too scared of

00:03:21.540 conflict i was too easily intimidated by stuff like that and so that's where i realized okay that's a

00:03:26.440 huge weakness i need to work on it so just dive right in and i started with more mellow martial arts

00:03:32.620 and i realized yeah this is not doing it for me i mean it's fun it's good but i need to do something

00:03:37.840 that's scary i need to do combat sports in the harshest possible way that would get me scared

00:03:43.920 and that would get me to work on that side of me right so what kind of like martial arts did you

00:03:48.380 start off with so it was like tai chi i mean what were you doing yeah yeah i started with kind of the

00:03:53.480 more tai chi type of thing started then with chinese martial other chinese martial arts and then

00:04:00.680 over time i started drifting more and more toward boxing brazilian jiu-jitsu judo wrestling mma that

00:04:08.100 kind of thing um and your your professor background what's your area of focus as a college professor

00:04:14.680 i'm i teach history primarily i kind of all over the place because to be honest i have a lot more fun

00:04:21.960 when i get to play with different topics but the primary ones that i teach are u.s history

00:04:27.680 american indian history and history of religions very cool all right so let's talk about more about

00:04:33.540 fighting so you talked about i mean it seems like you were your natural inclination is to be

00:04:38.860 not assertive sort of the easygoing passive just go with the flow kind of guy um and and combat sports

00:04:46.720 is a way to help you be more assertive and be more uh take a more aggressive approach towards life 0.97

00:04:53.920 and aggressive i mean you know not sort of like you're being a jerk but like you're 0.89

00:04:57.540 just being more um what's the word proactive towards life um besides that area of your life 0.97

00:05:05.240 how has combat fighting helped you become a better man i think one of the big things for me is that

00:05:10.880 when you fight you are gonna get kicked inevitably it doesn't even matter how good you got there's

00:05:16.740 always gonna be somebody better than you on any given day you know take the best fighter in the world

00:05:22.480 you're still gonna see them getting smashed on some days and to me learning how to deal with

00:05:29.460 things not going your way learning i mean we all love martial arts when things are going our way

00:05:34.860 right everybody likes martial arts with that sense of empowerment where you pull off amazing moves

00:05:40.820 some hot women stand on the side looking at you say no he's so manly and so great we got off on that 0.99

00:05:47.860 stuff but we the part that's less glamorous is when you're getting your ass kicked when there's some 0.99

00:05:53.560 some other man is literally physically dominating you and there's not a whole lot you can do about it 0.99

00:05:59.860 and in those moments the one thing you want is to get out you know you want like this this sucks

00:06:06.180 this is not what i signed up for this is not fun let me check out but the problem is it doesn't work

00:06:12.400 i mean yeah sure you can leave and never come back but if you decide to stay that does some

00:06:18.780 interesting thing to your psychology because what happens is you'll um you'll have to fight through

00:06:25.980 it in a fight that's basically hopeless where you know you're not gonna win this guy has your number

00:06:30.920 is better than you there's really not a whole lot you can do and to develop that mental fortitude to

00:06:36.560 stay in a hopeless fight to give it your best to regardless of outcome that that develops a whole

00:06:44.520 other side of the personality that's independent to how good of a fighter you become you just become

00:06:49.620 a tough human being you become really resilient i want to go back to something you said earlier in

00:06:54.900 your introduction like one of the reasons why you started doing martial arts particularly combat sports

00:07:00.280 was is a way for you to connect yourself back to reality um and you were saying yeah as a

00:07:06.320 professor you lived in your head a lot lived in the world of ideas but i i mean do you think that's

00:07:12.260 a problem not just for professor types but for everyone living in our modern age i think is we are so

00:07:18.600 disconnected from physical reality most of the time really and i mean i'm not saying like it's a bad

00:07:24.180 you know there are some advantages to being able to uh you know modern technologies clearly open up some

00:07:30.220 awesome opportunities so i'm not knocking them down like we should go back to the good old days

00:07:34.520 but at the same time we are losing something and so my approach is how can we keep the best

00:07:40.980 of an older way of life while at the same time embracing what technology has to offer

00:07:47.540 if you sit at your desk eight hours a day and then you go home and watch tv and check computer you know

00:07:53.460 we're spending all our time with our body doing nothing that's not a good thing that's not a good

00:07:58.860 thing health wise but also it's not a good thing in terms of your mental development as a human being

00:08:04.760 we are not built to to do that we need to have to live in a healthy strong vibrant body that knows

00:08:13.280 what it means to be on the run to be active to feel this kind of vitality flow through it right i've

00:08:20.880 noticed in my own life is what i love about doing stuff like actual physical things with my body

00:08:26.660 um is that you experience and encounter all these frustrations because the world unlike the digital

00:08:34.820 world where you can kind of shape it the way you want you can listen to the news that you want you

00:08:39.280 can block the people you don't want to hear on twitter like you can't do that in physical reality like

00:08:45.540 whatever frustration is there you have to deal with it and i've actually noticed my own life having

00:08:50.860 to deal with those frustrations dealing with those obstacles actually makes me happier like i'm it's

00:08:56.960 it's not pleasant at the you know when i'm doing it but at the end i'm like boy that felt kind of good

00:09:02.420 having to deal with that absolutely sometimes it's a fine balance between clearly looking for a life

00:09:08.780 that's a much more pleasant and easier but at the same time when it gets too easy you are it's self-sabotage

00:09:15.200 because then you don't build the strength that you will need in a bunch of aspects of life right and

00:09:20.020 i guess combat sports is sort of i mean that it takes that idea of physical reality not going the

00:09:25.980 way according to your plans and just amplifies it yeah and also because i mean there's that for sure

00:09:31.840 dealing with obstacles and in that case is dealing with obstacles that kick in an emotional response

00:09:36.880 because most people will be somewhat scared by the idea of somebody who has been training for years to

00:09:44.800 knock your head into the third row coming after you it will not just be a oh here is an obstacle but

00:09:52.100 it will be a fear-inducing obstacle one that forces you to deal with your emotions in a way that most

00:09:57.280 people don't so you're saying earlier how one of the things that fighting does is it it forces you to

00:10:04.080 be resilient right or you know keep going even in a hopeless situation when you know you're going to

00:10:09.840 lose um did is there like a moment in your martial arts career where you experienced that first time

00:10:15.300 that like you remember like i there's a battle a fight you knew like i am not going to win this but

00:10:21.040 i have to keep going yeah there are at least a couple that i remember because they are the exact opposite

00:10:26.600 of one another i remember once when you know i start off i'm doing okay i'm trying my stuff and it's

00:10:33.840 not working and suddenly my plan a didn't pan out and i just cracked halfway i just gave up for no good

00:10:41.540 reason you know i just felt like i want to check out of here this doesn't feel good things are not

00:10:46.420 going my way i'm probably gonna get my ass kicked i'm out of here and of course the moment i did it i 0.98

00:10:52.420 just look at myself and i was like what kind of a person are you really that's where it's at that 0.96

00:10:58.920 you know things don't go your way and you quit i was so disgusted with myself and you know i didn't

00:11:06.080 think that i would be like that and finding out that i had that in me did not make me too happy

00:11:11.240 so i think a couple of fights later i was in this brutal grinding battle where it was 50 50 and i just

00:11:20.400 had nothing left after a couple of rounds i was just so dead and in me suddenly you know that same

00:11:26.760 instinct kicked in right it's like okay you did it your all you tried hard you gave it your best

00:11:31.960 you have nothing left what's the point just check out and that's when kind of the memory of doing that

00:11:39.360 the previous time and how horrible i felt about myself in doing that kicked in i even had a mental

00:11:45.800 image of going back home and telling my wife oh no things didn't work out it's like why what happened

00:11:52.640 why did you lose and imagining saying oh because you know i got tired and i didn't feel like it

00:11:57.040 anymore so i quit and in that moment i was like okay i'm gonna die right now if if that's what it

00:12:02.720 takes during this round i will die every year but i'm not quitting this is just not something that i can

00:12:08.740 live with and it was funny because i had no physical energy left so i did a round on just pure willpower

00:12:15.160 and nothing else although enough i even ended up winning the fight but that's kind of beside the point

00:12:20.120 that's not even the important part the important part was that that moment when i made that decision

00:12:26.200 of this is do or die i don't care about consequences i don't care about outcomes you are not quitting

00:12:33.440 that did more for my self-esteem than 10 000 other things i've done in life one of your books that i

00:12:40.880 really enjoyed it was on the warrior's path where you you know you sort of you talk about your approach

00:12:45.840 to martial arts and give give a history of martial arts and description the various martial arts that

00:12:50.840 are out there but this one section really struck out to me the most was you talk about how there's a

00:12:56.340 need for both men and women uh to combine the warrior and the princess in their lives uh what do you mean by

00:13:04.000 that exactly well you know how in all the classic fairy tales you have the brave warrior who goes to

00:13:10.660 rescue the princess from the evil dragon kind of thing to me that those are metaphors for energies

00:13:16.460 that are inside all of us you know the the dragon represent all the obstacles that stand in our way

00:13:22.300 the princess represent the kind of feminine nurturing quality that are ultimately the ones that make life 1.00

00:13:28.680 good that make you be kind to your kids that make you be a sweet person with other human beings and

00:13:34.440 kind of that softer but sweet aspect of that we all have to some degree and the warrior side is the

00:13:42.300 determined tough uh uh crash obstacles that come in your way assertive aspects that we need so in some

00:13:49.960 way it's kind of a representation of the taoist yin yang right you have and for reasons that escape me

00:13:57.500 completely we tend to privilege only one side you know if you are uh if you happen to be a man you

00:14:05.060 have to be the tough guy who's you know develop some great qualities of strength and assertiveness but

00:14:11.160 you also are supposed to be insensitive not feel anything not be able to relate on an emotional level

00:14:16.260 to a lot of other people and vice versa if you are a woman you are supposed to be all about feelings but 1.00

00:14:22.600 if somebody goes boo you go hide in a corner because you are fearful and you don't have that

00:14:27.840 toughness i find those to be silly stereotypes and unfortunately these are silly stereotypes that

00:14:34.180 most people embody that they have a very strong basis in reality but i don't find it desirable to try

00:14:40.880 to live up to those stereotypes i think we can take the best of both worlds you know what's in some

00:14:46.560 ways think about even you know like the whole idea that women like bad boys why do they like bad boys 1.00

00:14:54.860 because there's something appealing about the guy's machismo the toughness the assertive all of those 1.00

00:15:00.940 qualities are very attractive but at the same time the problem is most of these people often are assholes 0.98

00:15:06.480 who are very unpleasant in other aspects of life so you're either stuck with the cute sweet boyfriend 0.99

00:15:12.360 who's a wimp or the hot one who's fiery and intense but he's kind of a jerk why does it that way you know 0.98

00:15:21.020 why can't you as develop both sides at the same time what's wrong with being sweet and nice and being 0.99

00:15:28.760 tough as hell at the same time to me that much more interesting human being than either or but so how does

00:15:35.680 martial arts help you develop these two energies as you call them in your life i mean because martial arts

00:15:41.000 it's all about just that seems like it puts a premium on the warrior aspect definitely and i think

00:15:46.720 some of it is because you gain a measure of your own skill and of your own words you know you know

00:15:54.240 that after you have been in a million fights you know that you are better than a lot of people because

00:15:58.740 of how hard you work at it and the results you have achieved and you know that there's always somebody

00:16:03.600 going to be better than you so in some sense it kind of keeps your ego in check it prevents you from

00:16:09.840 being these uh defensive overreactive you know because you have a sense of reality you have a

00:16:15.200 sense of where you stand and as such it allows you to relax a bit it's it's interesting when you see

00:16:21.860 that a lot of fighters are actually really mellow nice human beings because they got nothing to prove

00:16:28.060 now that's not always the case there are people who will be great fighters and still manage to be

00:16:33.760 ego-obsessed jerks but that's not as common as one would think often you find some of the toughest 0.62

00:16:40.620 guys are just really sweet mellow polite because because for them that's a choice they don't have to 0.99

00:16:48.400 be being sweet and mellow for them it's not a technique that they use because they can't do anything else

00:16:54.620 they are going to use it as their path to get what they want it's a choice because if they decide to

00:16:59.940 turn it on and just get into it they can't speak the language of violence they can't speak the

00:17:06.180 language of toughness they so when they decide not to it's because they can't because they have kept

00:17:12.460 their ego in check they are more they don't need to prove to anybody how good they are they know how

00:17:18.040 good they are one of the things i love about your writing and your work is your appreciation for

00:17:23.240 philosophy it seems you really think hard about these things and like a lot of great martial artists from

00:17:29.200 the past you try to combine the spiritual with the tooth and claw nastiness of fighting so i'm

00:17:38.380 curious you know which philosophers how they can be you know eastern western philosophers have had the

00:17:44.560 most influence on you and your synergy of fighting and spirituality i think some of the key ones would

00:17:50.420 be well of course all stoic philosophy here applies very well right i mean stoicism seems perfectly built

00:17:57.380 for this type of mindset a lot of what we're saying in some way you can find in stoic philosophy at the

00:18:03.960 same time i dig on the eastern side of things i find that that isn't to be i really love that reason because

00:18:11.740 it describes basically the way the universe works there's not a whole lot of sentimentality about it

00:18:17.700 it just tells you these are the principles that make life click and so i find it an excellent

00:18:23.240 guide to living that also apply to fighting to martial arts it applies to everything really it applies

00:18:28.700 to life so i find that reason quite quite inspiring and while technically not philosophy in a strict sense

00:18:37.740 since we're talking about stoicism i the 14 year old in me my uh i can't stop enjoying all the

00:18:47.460 conan the barbarian books tales the robert t howard stuff because i find it a i mean once you get past

00:18:54.920 the muscles and the adventure and the boobs and all the flashy things that attract people there's also

00:19:01.340 really a master course in stoic philosophy of inside robert t howard's writing and i find it

00:19:07.940 on one hand hilarious and entertaining but also very deep at the same time right yeah crumb crumb does not care

00:19:13.900 about you but that's the attitude right it's like yeah doesn't care who knows about what the future

00:19:20.740 the afterlife but there's here and now you can live deep here and now let's do that let's focus on this

00:19:27.560 i love that there's uh you know focus on what you can control on the ways in which you can here and now

00:19:34.580 make life more enjoyable and i loved how you um you talked about bruce lee um in his philosophy because i

00:19:40.000 didn't i mean i've seen all the bruce lee flicks but this guy who's actually very thoughtful and he

00:19:46.740 kind of he developed a philosophy towards life uh through his development of this martial art that

00:19:51.880 he developed lee was very much inspired by taoism i mean when you look at a lot of his writings it's

00:19:57.740 clearly overwhelmingly comes from taoist sources so in that sense he's not creating anything new

00:20:03.800 but he was brilliant because i was adapting ancient ideas that you could find in the taoist

00:20:09.540 and adapting them to life in the 20th century in the united states in a way that clicks so much

00:20:16.380 easier for most people than when you're trying to read the original taoist text from 2000 plus years ago

00:20:22.920 so while his work may be a bit derivative i don't think that's a bad thing i think it's just

00:20:28.880 a way to make the same principle come to life in a more modern context and uh so i love bruce lee

00:20:36.780 stuff i think he was absolutely brilliant both in his personal philosophy the way he applied it to

00:20:42.420 the martial arts and everything else and another philosopher that you see throughout your writing

00:20:46.980 is uh nietzsche and you actually have a section a chapter in one of your books devoted to him about

00:20:52.580 this idea that he had about becoming the hero hidden in your soul um what what did nietzsche

00:21:00.340 mean by that and like how have you taken that and applied it to your life i think you know when we

00:21:04.980 grow up we all dream to be heroes those are the tales that will capture every kid because there's

00:21:11.460 something beautiful about it it speaks of a life lived with integrity with honor with somebody that

00:21:18.580 other people can rely on because you are solid you can be trusted you have you have all these

00:21:25.260 qualities that we all want to embody and somewhere along the way somehow we got convinced that that's

00:21:30.780 some childish fantasy and i think that's really dumb because yeah you're not gonna be the hero in the

00:21:37.220 sense that you will pick up a spear and go fight a dragon that's probably not gonna happen but what's gonna

00:21:43.220 happen is that just a metaphor that just an image for the kind of struggle that we all fight every

00:21:48.700 day with our own weaknesses with our own inner demons with all the crap that life dishes our way

00:21:54.220 that's going to that's trying to crush our spirit that kind of battle is one that we all wage every

00:22:00.540 single day and so in that sense nurturing those heroic qualities nurturing that kind of image of who you

00:22:08.180 want to be i think is key i think is what every single human being should be doing all of the time

00:22:14.100 and in that regard i love nietzsche's philosophy because while he himself was struggling you know

00:22:20.800 he was grown he lived in the germany of the late 1800s he dealt with a ton of physical issues he

00:22:27.100 he had a lot of heavy crap weighing him down but at the same time there are moments there in his books

00:22:34.600 that are just these flashes of beauty and intensity pointing to these key values that to 0.52

00:22:41.100 me are what make life interesting so i really really dig nature a lot right and it's also kind

00:22:46.660 of segwaying it connects nicely with joseph campbell's idea of you know the hero's journey seeing your life

00:22:53.320 through this metaphor can bring a lot of significance to it even in the most mundane things it can bring

00:22:59.320 significance to your life yeah i mean i remember even as a like stuff that i didn't want to do as

00:23:04.580 a student when i was in college i can look at it as oh i have a research paper to get done on monday i

00:23:11.180 don't really feel like it i want to do something else or i can look at it as this is a challenge

00:23:17.480 this is something that's trying to like i can approach it as just a waste of time that's making

00:23:24.500 me bored and i don't feel like being here or i can approach it as a challenge to myself and i'm gonna

00:23:29.560 do the best possible i'm gonna wake up give it my all do the best possible job and then enjoy my

00:23:35.520 reward of free time when i'm done and taking it with that attitude made the whole task so much more 0.90

00:23:42.120 pleasant because this was not about writing some stupid research paper i didn't care for this was a 0.59

00:23:47.280 test of character this was a test that when i get lazy and i feel like quitting and i feel like

00:23:52.240 can we delay it can i get i get distracted and do something else you're kind of fighting that 0.97

00:23:58.280 inner resistance inside of you which suddenly that same stupid paper became an occasion to 0.97

00:24:04.440 work on myself to become stronger than who i was five minutes before and how is martial arts 0.98

00:24:11.080 supercharged your quest to to become the hero within your soul well one of the things i love about

00:24:17.360 the martial art game is that is uh is not just an intellectual pursuit where you are imagining

00:24:24.760 these qualities you are trying to embody them but it's still very somewhat in your head there is an

00:24:31.840 element there where your body will experience it before even your mind does and then your body will

00:24:37.680 affect your mind you know there are days where i just feel this heavy pressure i feel crappy about

00:24:45.240 myself i'm not in a good mood all i want to do is just dive headfirst into the most fattening vat of

00:24:51.460 ice cream ever created and never be heard from again and instead somehow i managed to get myself on the mat

00:24:58.240 or in the ring and the physical intensity of the training will snap me back in the present moment

00:25:06.080 all my other excuses issues nagging stuff that will all disappear in the background because i need to be

00:25:13.820 100 present in the year and now and i have to give my best whether i feel like it or not because if i

00:25:20.080 don't i'm gonna get my nose smashed by somebody trying to punch it away that experience is powerful

00:25:26.900 you know that will that will affect the your ability to be present at will when you want yeah and i think

00:25:35.160 it's interesting you raise this point in the book that even with martial arts there's that temptation to

00:25:39.660 stay within your head right where you see this on the internet where these debates about which martial

00:25:45.040 arts is the best martial arts and you have these ethereal arguments about well we got this technique

00:25:53.080 and this is you know the ground game is good in this one this is better for real life but uh you have

00:25:58.300 to get you actually have to start doing it to actually see the experience the results absolutely because

00:26:04.900 i mean combat sports are no reality by definition it's a simulated i mean the violence is real

00:26:10.560 enough but it's within the rules it's within boundaries it's within all of that clearly that's

00:26:15.560 no reality because there is no substitute for reality there is no way to mimic reality exactly

00:26:21.100 so you can only approximate it the advantage that combat sports is that within the limits of the game

00:26:28.160 within the rules you can test things out there's nothing choreographed about it the other guy is

00:26:35.120 trying to take you down and you have to do what you can to reverse him the other guy is trying to

00:26:40.560 punch your head off and you have to sleep and hit him you know there's an immediate feedback that

00:26:45.920 keeps things real it prevents you from going into fantasy land where you think you are the greatest 0.98

00:26:51.200 fighter ever those kind of illusions tend to exist mainly martial arts where you don't get to test it

00:26:57.320 because you don't spar once you spar once you experience a more combat sport driven aspect of

00:27:03.640 it it's a lot harder to keep thinking you are this amazing thing where reality sometimes shows you that

00:27:09.600 yeah you're pretty good but hey let's keep it you know you also just got hit by this guy you shouldn't

00:27:15.000 have you also made this one you know it keeps you it keeps you with your feet on the ground that way

00:27:21.400 right so in your latest book not afraid um you share one of the most heartbreaking things that

00:27:27.640 can happen to a man um your wife died um you were left caring four-year-olds newborn baby girl and you

00:27:35.900 were at a point where you're struggling with your career um as a professor um can you share a bit about

00:27:41.780 that experience yeah i mean that was a time was end of 2010 early 2011 the whole thing was super quick

00:27:50.460 you know my wife started showing some symptoms that were mildly concerning but nothing too big you know

00:27:58.140 she had these pains that wouldn't go away in her shoulders in her neck big deal we all do once in a 1.00

00:28:03.360 while and then a month later it started spreading to her leg and you're like okay that's a little weird

00:28:08.420 because that shows more of a neurological kind of thing long story short she ended up that what

00:28:14.060 they thought was uh multiple sclerosis wasn't turned out it was a brain tumor completely inoperable

00:28:20.860 super aggressive and fast moving and so from the very first symptom to the time when she died was

00:28:26.600 like less than six months so by early 2011 she died by that time my daughter was only 19 months old

00:28:35.460 so that's kind of heavy to for her you know trying to suddenly her mom is gone and i'm the only one

00:28:42.680 who can who's there for her to try to make up for everything she has lost try to make her that was the

00:28:49.300 weird thing is try to make her happy you know it wasn't enough that i'm changing diapers and taking

00:28:53.800 care of business i mean sure that's the first line of the fence but the other aspect is i need to put my 0.82

00:29:00.440 own grief away i need to put my own emotional bullshit away because i need to find a way to 0.57

00:29:05.700 make this little girl happy to make her feel that life is still good and so that i would give myself

00:29:12.140 10 minutes a day to feel what i had to feel to crash if i needed but it was on a timer you know it's like

00:29:18.380 okay your 10 minutes are up now you need to go back to prepare food change diapers and wake her up 1.00

00:29:24.820 with a smile because that's really the only thing that that you can do at this point so yeah at the

00:29:32.140 same time everything else you know my career was in a bad spot like everything happened all at once

00:29:36.700 where i was like it became after a while it became almost like you know a tragedy is a tragedy but two

00:29:41.880 three or four in a row become almost comedy where you're like okay what's next you know it's like

00:29:46.580 and in some way the act unless it completely crushes you then the attitude is you really stop

00:29:54.420 sweating 99 of problems that normally would bother human beings because you are dealing with such a

00:30:01.240 magnitude that is like i'm not gonna be bothered by this little thing i i really don't care i have

00:30:06.240 other things on my plate yeah it puts things in perspective um i mean so how did you talk about

00:30:13.020 martial arts making you more resilient um in the ring and that can carry over to other lives did

00:30:17.500 did that resilience you developed through martial art training carry over to helping you grieve

00:30:24.360 through the death of your wife yeah that was key i mean that was in terms of getting stuff handling

00:30:29.540 making sure that i wouldn't crush that idea of okay things are clearly not going our way but we're

00:30:37.640 still here you know unless you're dead you should still be fighting and keep going forward no matter

00:30:42.580 what the odds are that was certainly helpful it was helpful afterwards but also it was helpful

00:30:47.860 during the the last stages of my wife's life because even when we realize yeah there's not gonna be a 1.00

00:30:54.300 good outcome out of this well she's still alive and she still needs to she still needs to feel good

00:31:00.400 about something so again no matter what i'm feeling is i need to find a way to laugh with her to make her

00:31:06.940 feel good for the time she has no future there's no of course there's no future but there's still a

00:31:13.260 present there's a right now so how can i make the right now good even if the ultimate outcome may not

00:31:19.660 be good and so that was something that certainly martial art experience helped me for sure you know

00:31:26.760 it was something that dealing with that kind of feeling of fighting on when everything is hopeless

00:31:33.440 was certainly good training for the bigger battle which was in life of course not so much i mean

00:31:39.940 what you learn on the mat or in the ring is just a good uh a good prerequisite to help you with

00:31:46.540 some of these bigger things in life you know what was it like after i'm sure it was i mean this

00:31:52.520 happened really fast um you know so fast you probably didn't at the moment have a lot of time to process

00:31:57.180 what was going on and it wasn't until you know after she died that you were able to actually i mean

00:32:01.820 that's when i think it hits a lot of couples at least what i've read and talked to is that

00:32:05.640 it's after um the person has died and you've done all the the burial and the funeral things that

00:32:12.280 it really hits you hard um did you have that moment after your the the death of your wife where

00:32:18.340 it just suddenly hits you that i'm my wife's gone and now you have this whole new reality uh that i have

00:32:25.240 i think i couldn't go there i couldn't really i mean i i thought i did i thought i was dealing with

00:32:33.520 it and addressing grief and everything else i probably wasn't in the sense that i could not

00:32:39.180 open a door that would slow me down at a time when you know emotionally if i opened the door

00:32:44.620 emotionally may crush me and i could not afford to get crushed at a time when my daughter was

00:32:49.120 depending on me a hundred percent so i think i kind of put it a little on the back burner like

00:32:54.900 many people were looking at me like jesus are you even human because i acted like uh i mean yeah i

00:33:00.340 was sad it sucked but at the same time i was just very trying to enjoy life in the middle of all of

00:33:06.660 that trying to find things to laugh about trying to keep going i was charged with this energy where

00:33:13.840 i felt this thirst for life where i wanted everything and i wanted it now kind of thing

00:33:18.140 and there's something good about it because it kept me from wallowing in my own self-pity and just

00:33:25.420 staying at my own navel complaining about the injustices of the universe but at the same time

00:33:30.340 there was something where i probably should have found a way to deal with the emotions a little better

00:33:35.700 because what happened is that whether i realized it or not i certainly was repressing them some

00:33:42.020 in favor of hey i need to be here for my daughter which yeah sure it's a good reason but not dealing

00:33:48.100 with emotions at the same time is not necessarily the best thing because 0.97

00:33:51.520 completely came to bite me back in the ass later when i realized my body started breaking down and that 0.88

00:33:57.800 was stress that was just emotions that i wasn't processing so i spent years with these old 0.98

00:34:04.420 psychosomatic illnesses that were just breaking me down eventually when i started try to process more

00:34:13.500 everything that happened to me i slowly started climbing out of it so that's probably the last

00:34:18.860 year or two is where i feel like i'm me again you know i got my body back i feel healthy again i feel

00:34:24.380 in a better mental space but it took a while because i think my initial approach was so okay i can't let

00:34:32.340 this stop me that i i repress emotions too much and repress emotions always find a way to get back at

00:34:39.440 you right and so i imagine martial arts played a role in that you know getting you out of that funk

00:34:45.340 yeah even though there was a period really for a few years where it was really hard to train because

00:34:50.880 every time i stepped up i would break within a month because again too much stress my body was too

00:34:57.300 vulnerable because of all the emotions so i would go back to what used to make me happy and feel good

00:35:03.120 and within four five six training sessions i would be injured again and i'm out for three months and

00:35:09.420 then i'd do it again and it kept happening to the point where i was like okay i think i need to deal

00:35:14.640 with my emotions first before i can actually go back to this and that's why the last couple of years

00:35:19.760 where i've been able to train again has been just a new lease of life you know suddenly i feel like

00:35:25.480 ah i know this this is this is the reality i know and love again i couldn't have it for a while those

00:35:33.740 were the times where my my mental self was not at its best for sure when i finally was able to get

00:35:40.100 back on the mat on a regular basis i started feeling so much better and and how old is your daughter now

00:35:45.400 she's seven and i mean what's it been like i mean are you are you still single um you just have you

00:35:50.900 been raising her on your own um i've had them i've had help because um my mom lives in the u.s and she

00:35:57.740 is helping a little for sure um i have had um no i have had a girlfriend for the last few years and

00:36:04.460 she's awesome she's great with my daughter she's great with me she's really kind of almost freakish

00:36:10.640 how good she is to all of us and it's uh so no i definitely while i certainly have done a lot on my

00:36:17.180 own particularly at the beginning the beginning was pretty much me alone but after that i certainly

00:36:22.800 received a whole lot of help and have you gotten your daughter involved in martial arts um just

00:36:28.480 playing with it a little i'd want her to have fun with it so i don't want her to push her unless she

00:36:34.220 wants it i want her to kind of taste it a little bit we play around a little i'll have her try 0.95

00:36:39.380 combinations but i think you know i'll take her to classes i'm not in a hurry in the sense that i

00:36:45.000 want it to be something that she wants to do that she loves more than hey we're going to martial arts

00:36:51.220 and you're gonna like it whether you like it or not because that's the way that then you're gonna

00:36:55.320 hate it forever right i think it's easier for her because she see me getting so much out of it and

00:37:01.220 being so happy she sees my girlfriend she became a martial art freak because the last few years 1.00

00:37:07.920 she trains i mean she just started fighting professional in mma she's really insanely skilled

00:37:14.500 and so you know she's around it all the time she sees it in my daughter sees it in me my girlfriend

00:37:21.880 so i'm sure at some point that desire is gonna move from oh let's play for five minutes into

00:37:28.660 something a little more um i i'm kind of that's how i'm approaching it i don't want to push her too

00:37:34.720 hard for fear that then is gonna turn her off from making it a lifelong thing so i mean there's

00:37:41.000 guys listening to the show and they're thinking man i want to i want to experience what daniel's

00:37:45.900 experienced from martial arts that resilience that sense of confidence that comes from it that it's

00:37:51.200 that quiet confidence that comes with uh martial arts is is there any particular one you recommend

00:37:56.620 i mean do you recommend like combat martial arts like mixed martial arts type of stuff i think

00:38:01.220 combat sports are a great way to to get in the game there are a million different arts that are

00:38:06.500 i mean i really i like pretty much all martial arts but as far as combat sports go i think

00:38:12.000 judo and jiu-jitsu or wrestling all of those the grappling ones are awesome because you don't take as

00:38:18.240 much damage to your head compared to when you do striking striking arts are great you know i like

00:38:24.400 boxing tie boxing all of it the problem is there's always fine line in terms of sparring because you

00:38:30.680 want to spar hard enough that it's realistic but not so hard that you take you know there are only

00:38:35.300 so many brain cells you have and you don't want to start weeding them out through hard sparring too

00:38:40.220 often so that i find a little harder to get into just because you have to always hold back to some

00:38:47.600 degree whereas judo jiu-jitsu wrestling i mean as long as you are not reckless you are going any damage

00:38:54.100 you take is um to the limbs not to your brain so that's pretty important difference so you can train

00:39:01.780 usually a little harder holding back a little less and i i find that quite appealing that's why i mean

00:39:08.600 i've done all the striking arts a lot for quite a few years these days i enjoy mainly grappling because

00:39:14.940 i find it um more you know there are only so many times in life you want to get punched in the head

00:39:19.920 right um so besides the books you've got a podcast the the drunken taoist i mean what

00:39:25.080 if someone were to listen to that show what kind of things could they expect i mean what do you

00:39:28.320 explore on that that show so drunken taoist was the first one i started working on and it's um

00:39:33.160 i do two types of episodes i usually do two episodes a month one is an interview and interviews are with

00:39:39.800 people from all walks of life as long as i find a person interesting for one degree or another then

00:39:45.420 it's fair game and the other episode is an in studio one that i just do with my co-host where

00:39:50.320 we chat and it's really about it doesn't have a single theme it's life so we jump on from sports to

00:39:58.520 relationships to philosophy to you name it and as long as it's life as long as there's intensity as

00:40:04.340 long as there's passion then it interests me so that's how i've been handling the drunken taoist

00:40:09.760 and then about a year and a half ago i started doing another podcast called history on fire

00:40:15.520 because um it kind of made sense you know i was already podcasting and i was and i teach history

00:40:21.240 for a living so i was like how about i put two and two together so i started history on fire with the

00:40:27.360 same idea i'm gonna pick any story from history that i find fascinating because it's it has an epic

00:40:34.260 quality to it and i'm just gonna dive deep into them so so one day i'll be talking about theodore

00:40:41.580 roosevelt's life and the next day i'm gonna be going on the slave revolts in ancient rome with

00:40:46.660 spartacus and stuff like that and i feel i like the freedom to be able to jump from topic to topic you

00:40:53.860 know i'll go really deep for one two three episodes on one topic got that done boom i'm off to the next

00:41:00.040 thing whatever i feel wherever i feel that there's enough passion that to make it a compelling

00:41:06.840 narrative yeah your your series on theodore roosevelt is how i discovered you because one

00:41:11.340 of your listeners said hey art of manliness check this guy out he's done some podcasts on teddy

00:41:16.760 roosevelt and i was like that's my kind of guy and that's this is how that conversation happened

00:41:22.020 so we can thank teddy roosevelt okay i like that good old teddy i had so much fun doing the teddy

00:41:29.260 roosevelt series i started out thinking oh one episode about this life one became two two became

00:41:35.000 three there's just so much to the guy and um and it was interesting for me to read because there's

00:41:41.180 there's a lot that i could relate to personally the combat sport stuff all the him losing his wife and

00:41:48.120 having a younger young daughter when he was young you know all of those things i was like okay that's a

00:41:53.180 little familiar i i can deal with those dynamics so it was uh kind of therapeutic for me actually to

00:41:59.740 read about his stories and dive deep into it fantastic daniel where can people learn more about

00:42:04.540 uh your work um the gods of google will be good to you so if you spell my name right there's a twitter

00:42:11.820 i have it's the first letter of my initial so it's the letter d and then my last name bolelli it's b-o-l-e-l-l-i

00:42:19.160 i have a public face a public page on facebook um various websites you know danielebolelli.com

00:42:27.200 there's the one for history on fire there's drunken towers but i think you know again thanks to google

00:42:32.100 if you find one usually you you find them all very quickly well daniel bolelli thank you so much for

00:42:37.380 your time it's been an absolute pleasure thanks so much brad this was fun my guest there is daniel bolelli

00:42:41.680 he is the author of not afraid and on the warrior's path and some other books as well he's also the

00:42:46.000 host of the drunken towers podcast as well as history on fire podcast check out his history on

00:42:50.380 fire podcast it's great at history on fire podcast.com also find out more information about his work at

00:42:55.500 danielbolelli.com that's uh b-o-l-e-l-l-i.com uh to find more information about his work also check

00:43:02.640 out our show notes at aom.is slash not afraid where you can find links to resources where you can delve

00:43:07.840 deeper into this topic well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more

00:43:18.380 manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com

00:43:22.100 if you enjoy this show and have gotten something out of it i'd really appreciate if you take two

00:43:25.540 minutes to give us a review on itunes or stitcher or whatever it is you listen on the podcast helps

00:43:29.580 us out a lot as always thank you for your continued support and until next time this is brad mckay

00:43:33.760 telling you to stay madly

00:43:35.420 you

The Art of Manliness - March 14, 2017

#286： Not Afraid

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