The Art of Manliness - #291： The Untold Story of Jimmy Stewart's WWII Service

00:00:00.000 brent mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast jimmy stewart is

00:00:19.540 one of the greatest actors in american cinema he's appeared in some of our most beloved films

00:00:23.660 like mr smith goes to washington the philadelphia story vertigo and of course that perennial holiday

00:00:28.840 favorite it's a wonderful life what many people don't know about jimmy stewart is that he served

00:00:33.680 for four years during world war ii flying b-24 bombers over germany and unlike a lot of movie

00:00:38.900 stars that were drafted and spent their service making films for the war effort stewart actually

00:00:43.420 saw combat and even after the war was over he continued his military service and retired as a

00:00:48.260 brigadier general in the air force my guest today has written a book dedicated to looking at these

00:00:52.760 forgotten parts of the actor's life his name is robert mattson and his book is mission jimmy

00:00:57.420 stewart in the fight for europe robert shares why stewart's family history instilled an iron sense

00:01:01.640 of duty towards serving his country in the military and how stewart spent his single day off as an

00:01:06.380 actor training to be an army pilot in the years leading up to world war ii we also discuss how

00:01:10.620 stewart had to fight the military brass and his boss at mgm studios to ensure that he actually saw

00:01:14.860 combat instead of staying stateside to make propaganda films and then robert gets into detail

00:01:19.180 about the combat missions stewart flew during world war ii his leadership style as an officer and how

00:01:24.060 the war took a toll on him physically and emotionally we end our conversation talking

00:01:27.940 about how the war influenced stewart's film career and when he returned home and how it may

00:01:31.860 have helped him create one of cinema's most iconic characters george bailey if you're a fan of jimmy

00:01:36.180 stewart you don't want to miss the show after the show's over check out our show notes at aom.is

00:01:40.440 slash stewart

00:01:41.440 robert mattson welcome to the show thank you for inviting me so you just published a great book

00:01:54.020 it's called mission jimmy stewart and the fight for europe and it's all about the actor jimmy

00:01:58.760 stewart's military career during world war ii and his service after world war ii as well and i think a

00:02:03.860 lot of people realize that jimmy stewart actually saw combat during world war ii so i mean what inspired

00:02:08.860 you to write this book about stewart's service during the battle in europe well as a writer i

00:02:14.520 look for stories that people haven't heard before and there aren't many of those left you know there's

00:02:20.600 very little new under the sun so the ones that are left to tell are the hard ones and this one was

00:02:27.140 hard because stewart simply refused to talk about what happened in the war and so biographers just

00:02:34.780 never wrote about it because they thought well if i don't have any quotes from stewart i can't write

00:02:39.360 the book which is a tremendous challenge and and i really like those and so i wanted to see if i could

00:02:47.500 get at the story and i did and so how do you go about that i mean what was the research process like

00:02:52.640 when jimmy stewart didn't talk maybe let's ask that question first i mean why did jimmy stewart not

00:02:57.600 talk about his service during world war ii and the follow-up question would be how did you get

00:03:02.600 around that then he wouldn't talk about it for a couple of reasons you know most of the guys saw

00:03:08.240 such horrific things over there that there was no way that they could talk about it to people who

00:03:16.220 hadn't been over there really could have no frame of reference and if they talked about it it was like

00:03:21.800 they were gossiping about their dead friends that's one thing and jim had some of that but more than

00:03:27.220 anything with jim it was this perfectionism that he had he was a commanding officer and he always felt

00:03:34.940 he could do it better i could have done better i could have done better there could have been more

00:03:38.580 guys coming home and so for those two reasons he just clammed up plus he was a very private person

00:03:44.580 anyway so getting around that was first of all you know the key to having a reputation as a good

00:03:51.960 researcher and writer is to hire good people to do your research for you and i did that and um my dc

00:04:00.140 researcher i i said can you get at the combat mission reports and i gave her a list of stewart's

00:04:06.240 missions which i had from his personnel file which i got you know through a facility in st louis and

00:04:13.720 i knew if i could get at the mission reports of the missions he flew i had a starting point and she

00:04:22.660 found them in like a day and they the combat mission reports tell you everything about every mission

00:04:29.900 that all of the flyers flew you know their takeoff time the bomb load who was on the crew what the plane

00:04:37.720 number was what the wind speed was where they encountered fighters where they encountered flack

00:04:43.820 you know what the target all of it and once i had that then it became a matter of well i can't get

00:04:52.240 stewart's accounts of the of each battle but can i get other people's and i started to find them and i

00:04:57.620 found three flyers that flew with him in the war who were still alive and ready to talk and told me

00:05:04.980 stories that are just terrific so i was on my way all right so let's talk about stewart before the

00:05:11.120 war you begin the book talking about not about stewart himself but about his family history because

00:05:15.700 i think that had a big influence and why he felt so duty-bound to serve in the military and not just

00:05:20.900 serve in the military but to actually do combat he felt this immense duty to do that so tell us about

00:05:26.740 stewart's family background and why that instilled such a sense of duty in him sure the the title of the

00:05:32.060 book mission you know people think it's about combat missions and it's not it's about his family

00:05:36.980 mission to serve his country and that comes from really both of his grandfathers fought in the civil

00:05:44.800 war and were prominent especially his mother's father was colonel sam jackson who was a hero of the

00:05:53.140 second day's battle at gettysburg and did something very very similar to what joshua lawrence chamberlain did

00:05:58.700 you know the very famous guy from the 20th main who saved the day well sam jackson also led a bayonet

00:06:04.820 charge at about the same time on the on the second day's battle at gettysburg and a general wrote up

00:06:11.520 to him one of the you know commanding generals on the field wrote up to him hat in hand and said

00:06:16.360 colonel jackson sir you have saved the day and colonel jackson became general jackson so jim's

00:06:23.020 mother's father was a a union general in the civil war a combat veteran and jim's father's father

00:06:30.200 was a sergeant in the signal corps his name was also james maitland stewart and he served under

00:06:36.620 general custer of all people in the shenandoah valley and saw a lot of action and was at appomattox

00:06:43.160 when lee surrendered to grant and saw that happen so right there you have quite a daunting

00:06:50.560 family history of service to your nation and stewart's father also served in world war one

00:06:56.080 correct right that's right he was a captain in the army and served for a year in the great war

00:07:01.260 so that was jim's background and it was drummed into his head by the old jm who was lived into the

00:07:09.360 1930s told him stories about real war real sacrifice what it was really like and what is demanded of you

00:07:16.100 you know by your country and so all his life the most important thing to jim was military service

00:07:22.920 all his life from the youngest you know boyhood till his death he would always say that you know

00:07:29.980 my service was the most important thing in my life not academy awards you know not dating movie stars

00:07:35.860 it was the service that counted so let's talk about jim before he signed on with the army air force

00:07:41.660 how was his career doing as a film star before the war broke out uh jim was a shooting star i mean he

00:07:47.580 his his well let's call him him he was he was a firecracker you know he he was on his way up and up and

00:07:55.440 up and then he exploded into um star-spangled glory making mr smith goes to washington in 1939

00:08:02.540 uh that that made him instantly go from being this sort of gawky character actor that they

00:08:11.480 didn't know what to do with to being a leading man boy next door you know everybody loves jim jimmy

00:08:18.500 really the next year after that he won the academy award as best actor for the philadelphia story where

00:08:23.500 he played a cynical reporter and right after he picked up his statuette you know in the academy

00:08:30.480 awards ceremony in february of 1941 he was drafted and went into the service and left hollywood behind

00:08:38.000 slammed the door on his hollywood career because you know military service trumps hollywood even

00:08:45.780 stardom even money he always loved his money but service was more important so when he entered the

00:08:52.300 service he was one of the most popular and successful actors in hollywood what i thought was

00:08:58.920 interesting too as i read about stewart's pre-war life was that he was a ladies man too and i think that

00:09:04.800 surprises a lot of people because we often think of jimmy stewart as george bailey and it's a wonderful

00:09:08.840 life this family man but in real life stewart was the supreme ladies man and he was also an older

00:09:14.680 bachelor in hollywood as well yeah and and people you know if i receive criticism for this book it's

00:09:21.120 that i am gratuitous in talking about jim as a ladies man and his conquests but it was very important

00:09:27.040 to him because he needed to prove himself worthy of being a stewart combat wise but he needed to be

00:09:34.380 worthy of the attention of ladies because he thought he was unattractive and so he had this you know need

00:09:41.680 to go prove himself as as being attractive and so he spent his pre-war years doing that but once the war

00:09:48.740 came you know he sort of got all that out of his system by dating you know ginger rogers marlena dietrich

00:09:55.020 loretta young just a series of a listers but after the war he was much less interested in that i mean

00:10:01.860 he he really sort of got the feeling of what life was all about and he he did settle down at that point

00:10:08.420 and became the george bailey family man married a woman for and then you know almost 50 years they

00:10:14.620 were married until she died and that was really he became george bailey after the war yeah well we'll

00:10:21.780 talk a little bit more about that later on so i thought it was interesting about stewart is that as

00:10:25.300 he was rising to stardom winning the academy war he had his eye on europe and he knew that war was coming

00:10:31.420 and he wanted to be ready for it so how did stewart prepare for his military service even before he was

00:10:37.340 drafted into the military well he as a kid had been fascinated by flight at the age of about 12 he got

00:10:45.560 his first ride from a barnstorming pilot you know in an open cockpit biplane and loved it just loved it

00:10:53.960 so the first thing he did when he got to hollywood and had some money was take flying lessons and then buy

00:10:59.220 his own plane and the plane he bought was the kind the army used to train pilots because he set his cap for

00:11:07.060 the army air corps long before the war broke out you know when hitler was starting to gobble up countries

00:11:14.000 jim was very very carefully spending his sundays which was his only free day of the week logging hours

00:11:20.760 in his stints and voyager logging hours logging hours to get his pilot's license to get his commercial

00:11:26.980 pilot's license which meant a twin engine plane that would all set him up to be an army air corps pilot and

00:11:36.800 officer and he you know he said about that for years which just proves you know how dedicated he was

00:11:43.900 serving his country and when he was drafted in 1941 he had just gotten his commercial rating and

00:11:51.680 within oh nine months he had earned his wings he went in as a private and in nine months he was a

00:11:57.300 second lieutenant and a pilot wow so so he went in a private and he worked his way up the ranks as

00:12:03.360 well and he eventually became an officer yeah he spent his first nine months on the ground you know

00:12:08.180 swabbing decks he became a corporal he had his own squad he trained troops he drove you know new

00:12:13.460 recruits so you know he he was older than everybody else all of the recruits were younger than he was

00:12:20.820 and so he was sort of a father figure all of a sudden and he could not escape being jimmy stewart the

00:12:26.780 actor who everyone wanted to be around including the high officers you know not many not many privates

00:12:33.440 can get into the commanding officer's office but he could anytime he wanted really and how old was

00:12:40.240 jimmy stewart when he was drafted 33 years old all right so he was pops for sure oh yeah yes he was

00:12:45.480 most of the guys are in the early 20s what i thought was interesting too there were a lot of

00:12:49.740 movie stars that were drafted or signed up for military service during world of two but many of

00:12:53.840 them made films to help the war effort you know they stayed home and helped the war from there were

00:12:59.100 there efforts made to make stewart take that route with his military career and if so how did he avoid

00:13:05.360 that and make sure you actually saw combat yes the the whole idea of the war department and metro

00:13:11.380 goldwyn mayor which owned his contract was to keep him stateside and safe uh for mgm this was one of

00:13:19.180 their most significant assets you know um with the war department nothing good could come of a hollywood

00:13:27.020 star flying over europe and getting shot down killed or captured how horrible would that be for the

00:13:34.120 united states so uh jim when he was inducted he was assigned to the motion picture unit of the at

00:13:44.800 wright airfield which is now wright patterson air force base in dayton ohio that's where he was to

00:13:49.780 spend the war making pictures and he refused and that's when it becomes very important that he's a

00:13:55.860 movie star because that's when he goes in to the commanding officer at moffett field and said look

00:14:00.420 here are my orders please block these orders help me stay here i want to fly i want to go overseas

00:14:07.080 and that officer blocked those orders kept him at moffett he became a pilot so then the next thing the

00:14:15.960 war department did was to say okay you can be a pilot and you will train other pilots you'll stay

00:14:21.820 stateside training other pilots and so jim did that for a while and that was a very worthwhile endeavor

00:14:28.200 except it wasn't good enough for jim he wanted to go overseas and serve in combat you know how many

00:14:36.160 people are like that not too many i don't know that i'd want to go in harm's way if i knew i could

00:14:41.160 train pilots and stay states so he finally found a senior officer at one of these bases in boise

00:14:47.180 idaho who saw jim dying on the inside it's already 1943 we're you know heavily into the war and he

00:14:56.240 said hey i got i know there's a new bomb group forming up let's get you in there it's gonna go

00:15:01.980 overseas we'll get you that and that's how he ended up making his way into the thick of the fighting in

00:15:07.540 europe and who are some of the other movie stars that served in world war ii you mentioned clark gable

00:15:12.460 in the book as one of those yeah clark gable went over after his wife carol lombard died and served on

00:15:18.800 b-17s but he was sent over to make a movie to recruit gunners for b-17s that's why he went over

00:15:26.560 he saw a little bit of action tyrone power went to the pacific and in the marines robert montgomery

00:15:32.400 was in the navy a lot of stars did go over and when they did go over new guys came in and took their

00:15:39.380 place guys who were 4f like gregory peck became a big star he had a bad back theoretically so he

00:15:45.640 couldn't go off and fight and a lot of stars became stars while the other guys were serving

00:15:51.040 like ronald reagan was making pictures in burbank but he was you know theoretically he was an army guy

00:15:57.560 but he was he stayed stateside so there was a lot of that going on all right we'll talk about that too

00:16:02.620 because that affected stewart's career when he came back so he gets enlisted and he he works his way to

00:16:07.500 get what he wants he joins up a bond group and he captains b-24s can you tell us a little bit about

00:16:12.760 the b-24 because these things were really precarious to fly it was a physically grueling assignment

00:16:18.260 so can you walk us through a little bit of what stewart would experience as a captain in a b-24

00:16:23.040 sure you think the b-17 is like the the romantic plane the heavy bomber four-engine bomber that's the

00:16:30.340 memphis bell you know the 12 o'clock high the one you see all the time is the b-17 and it's kind

00:16:36.280 of sleek and good looking the b-24 was referred to as by one of the flyers i love this it's like

00:16:44.020 my famous piece of writing the the best piece of writing i ever heard was when he said the b-24

00:16:50.440 on the ground looked like a prehistoric monster wading through swamps it was a big ugly plane

00:16:57.780 they called it the packing crate that the b-17 came in a big boxy sort of flying boxcar that was

00:17:03.540 the b-24 and it had some real problems i mean it could fly it could carry a heavier bomb load and

00:17:09.000 it could fly faster than a b-17 but it had these fuel leak problems that would sort of cause it to

00:17:15.560 explode unexpectedly so you could take off and then never be heard from again and that happened to

00:17:20.640 people in jim's command so that was the biggest problem with the b-24 and it was also really hard

00:17:26.400 on the controls it was like a car without power steering you had to really muscle the thing the whole

00:17:31.960 time you're in the air on these eight-hour missions and in the case of both the b-17 and the b-24

00:17:38.600 unpressurized cabins and at and this was in european winter that he flew his first missions at 30 below

00:17:47.740 zero unpressurized cabins if you took off your protective clothing for even 30 seconds a you could

00:17:55.380 pass out because there wasn't oxygen up there and b you get frostbite and you could be unconscious so i mean

00:18:01.040 the experience of flying for jim in a b-24 was primitive and dangerous all the time so let's talk

00:18:08.560 about his combat missions where did stewart primarily fly and how many combat missions did go on

00:18:13.480 he flew 20 combat missions beginning december 13th 1943 in the thick of the air war when

00:18:20.420 the german air force was still very strong his first mission was to keel germany so it was a very long

00:18:27.560 his base was in the eastern part of england and it was a very long mission over the north sea to the

00:18:34.480 northern tip of germany and he led his squadron that day and and it was a very successful mission

00:18:40.300 there were no fighters showed up that always helps and then he proceeded to fly a very heavy rotation

00:18:46.700 of missions for the next nine or ten weeks he flew his first 10 or 12 missions always in command

00:18:53.900 and the stress was incredible over these german targets with very heavy fighter resistance and

00:19:01.000 flak you know the anti-aircraft fire and it took a tremendous toll on him physically those first two

00:19:07.400 or three months of combat were the roughest for him and really i have to say they were two or three

00:19:13.480 months he never got over were there any missions that were particularly hairy yeah there were there were a

00:19:19.200 couple nothing compared to the february 25th 1944 mission to gotha germany which was one of the

00:19:30.340 missions of big week big week was where the eighth air force went after german aircraft manufacturing

00:19:37.960 and the day before jim led his mission to gotha the the formation from the 445th bomb group his bomb

00:19:45.040 group that went over there got shot to pieces 13 out of 25 b24s that went that day got shot down

00:19:51.880 including clem leones who was one of the guys that helped me write the book so jim heard about what had

00:19:58.640 happened on february 24th over gotha and he knew he was leading the mission the next day and that's one

00:20:03.820 of the few things jim would ever talk about about the war was that night laying in bed trying to sleep

00:20:10.940 knowing that his formation was likely to get butchered just like this one just had and thinking

00:20:17.740 i gotta be on top of my game i gotta be good enough i gotta be sharp and he couldn't sleep

00:20:21.640 so he's gonna have to lead this eight hour mission on no sleep knowing he's going into hell and that was

00:20:29.400 the mission that was one too many for jim and it and it caused him to have to just go away for a while

00:20:35.360 get some sodium pentothal and you know relax because he just it was one mission too many so

00:20:41.740 you mentioned earlier that jimmy started out as a private but he worked his way up to the rank of

00:20:45.620 colonel during world war ii and you mentioned the book that he was one of the few soldiers that

00:20:50.000 actually did that started as a private and worked his way up to colonel so i'm curious what was stewart

00:20:55.020 like as a leader i mean you mentioned earlier that he was a perfectionist but besides that what other

00:20:59.620 attributes did stewart show as a captain of a bomber you know i asked that very question of

00:21:04.780 the guys who flew with him and these were officers they were pilots and co-pilots so they were in a

00:21:12.840 really good position to tell me and they said he was a by the book flyer you know he was a very quiet

00:21:18.380 leader but he he believed in rules and regs and he followed them to a t very tight formation flying

00:21:28.240 he would drum that in their heads and because he was such a stickler for doing things the right way

00:21:34.220 no cutting corners he had a very high success rate you know guys tended to live in his squadron and his

00:21:42.120 formation where other formations weren't so lucky but it wasn't luck you know it was his um his desire

00:21:50.720 to do things the right way also his maturity you know he's he's 10 years older than these other guys

00:21:57.180 and he has dealt with hollywood stars moguls like louis b mayor he has gone head to head toe to toe

00:22:04.800 with them directors you know he he's victor fleming you know really tough directors he's worked with

00:22:11.500 so you know he's he's ready for command and he's a clear communicator so when you're on the radio with

00:22:18.740 this calm voice over bremen with flack bursting all around you and then fighters come in you hear jim you

00:22:27.100 understand what he's saying you believe he knows what he's doing because he's an actor and he's

00:22:33.040 acting it up there at 20 000 feet you know so all those things combined to make him just a terrific

00:22:39.100 aerial commander aerial quarterback for these formations in combat so he's able to gain the

00:22:46.460 respect of his subordinates and superiors but i think as a movie star i'd be like well this is going

00:22:51.980 to be kind of tough to get that respect the guys are just going to see me as this sort of pampered

00:22:56.520 movie star and they're not going to have the respect for me as a soldier was that a concern for

00:23:00.940 jim when he went in yeah he fought that his whole time in service you know he was in the service for

00:23:05.920 five years and he ducked he ducked that at every turn and very quickly the guys would see him not

00:23:17.980 anymore as a movie star but as jim or captain stewart or major stewart you know and where he

00:23:24.440 really had some trouble was the constant demands of the generals and the colonels to hang out with jim

00:23:32.520 you know let's get our picture taken let's tell me a story tell me about lana turner what she really

00:23:36.760 like he and and that kind of made him shy away but he knew that came with the territory and put up with

00:23:42.920 it where he had to and then as you know you know just from our conversation it it helped him out in

00:23:48.220 various times it helped him avoid the press hey can you do me a favor just tell them tell them i i'm

00:23:53.640 too busy i'm not going to talk to them and so it was a double-edged sword for him i i guess if he could

00:24:00.240 have been anonymous he would have chosen to be anonymous through the war and but that just wasn't

00:24:05.940 going to happen when you had one of the more famous faces in the world so he spent five years in

00:24:09.980 active duty how did the war change him and you mentioned earlier he was sort of a ladies man kind

00:24:14.720 of a firecracker i imagine the experience of seeing intense combat changed him when he came

00:24:19.480 home yeah there's a before and after photo in the book there the before is taken in 1942 and it's

00:24:24.600 his fresh-faced kid you know he's got a nice suntan and his hair's you know youthful and a nice hairline

00:24:31.460 and he's smiling their photo two years later after he flew these first 12 combat missions he looks

00:24:38.100 like hell he looks terrible you know he the skin's hanging off of him um his eyes have just show

00:24:45.360 such oh you know wear and tear and his hairlines receded and he's got gray in his hair you know

00:24:51.540 that's what the war did to him and it was like i said it was the strain of command plus he lost men

00:24:58.200 from his command dead you know guys who got shot down flaming death and had he wrote letters home

00:25:05.560 in all cases to the mothers and fathers and girlfriends and wives of these guys who had died

00:25:11.460 on his watch and so he brought all of that back home with him he had the shakes you know classic ptsd

00:25:21.060 and he was trying now to pick up his hollywood career after being away for five years and the whole

00:25:29.400 landscape of hollywood has changed and van johnson is now you know taking the roles that were once

00:25:36.560 jimmy stewart's roles a whole new crop of leading men and so he's at a crossroads what's going to

00:25:41.980 happen am i ever going to get another job he just didn't know because he knew he looked like hell

00:25:46.600 that's the first thing that henry fonda said to him what happened to you because he looked so bad

00:25:51.980 when they finally reunited at the war's end it was it was a very scary time for jim yeah maybe

00:25:57.520 another way it changed was the studio system was broken up while he was gone and we started to see

00:26:03.180 more free agent the more free agent model in hollywood that we see today yeah his girl ex-girlfriend

00:26:08.320 olivia de haviland was the one who changed everything by suing jack warner and warner brothers to get her

00:26:14.400 freedom and once she got her freedom it really did as you say break up the studio system and jim

00:26:20.300 was brilliant absolutely brilliant at being one of the first stars to embrace that he had lou

00:26:26.980 wasterman as his agent who was just like the king of hollywood agents and lou said no no no you know

00:26:32.320 mgm will take you back if you sign a seven-year contract don't do it you stay a free agent and

00:26:37.620 we're going to get you you know a percentage and that was you know we can talk about that if you want

00:26:42.480 to but you know getting a percentage of the movies that then became real successful and made jim a

00:26:48.220 fortune yeah and i'd like to talk about that later on let's talk about the movie everyone knows him

00:26:53.520 for it's a wonderful life how did the war experience influence the movie i mean would a wonderful life

00:26:59.500 exist if it weren't for world war ii that's hard to say when jim came back he got off the queen

00:27:06.000 elizabeth and was and held a press conference and said i just want to go make comedy you know the world

00:27:12.280 has seen so much sorrow and so much drama if hollywood will have me i want to make a happy

00:27:18.640 picture so he goes back to hollywood and proceeds not to get any calls to make this happy picture

00:27:24.420 you got nothing so finally when capra called and said he had this story about a man who wants to

00:27:30.660 commit suicide and an angel intervenes you know they sat down together and capra tried to tell him

00:27:36.800 this story about this crazy picture he wanted to make jim got up and walked out you know that was

00:27:42.240 the first conversation they had jim wanted nothing to do with it because he wanted to make a comedy

00:27:48.180 and he didn't he didn't believe in a picture about suicide and what's this business about angels but

00:27:53.920 he thought about it and really he had no other offers and that version of the story is from 1946 when

00:28:01.120 the picture was released it got told and mutated by both frank capra and jimmy stewart for the next 40

00:28:06.660 years but that's the way it really happened and so i guess the the picture could have existed yes to

00:28:15.360 answer your question uh i doubt it would have been the classic it is today yeah in the book you mentioned

00:28:21.540 frank capra like stewart stewart was having a hard time when he got back he served in the military as well

00:28:27.220 but he was making films but that military service took him out of the loop in hollywood and when he

00:28:32.500 came back after the war he he just had a hard time trying to get a film going he actually had to go

00:28:37.460 independent to start making his films yeah he he formed liberty films with a couple of other directors

00:28:42.860 and they were both stewart and capra were really at wit's end you know they it was make or break time

00:28:49.840 for them so when they started to make its wonderful life donna reed among others said boy these guys

00:28:56.760 were tense you know you think this is a happy picture but boy it was tough to make because

00:29:01.400 they second guessed you know what if we do this what if this is wrong we got to get this right

00:29:04.820 they'd go off and have these little conversations so you know it was it was a tense movie to make

00:29:09.820 and a very expensive capra was extravagant so he ran up quite a bill and he pretty much assured

00:29:15.980 that its wonderful life couldn't make money because it was so expensive to make yeah it was kind of a

00:29:21.300 bomb when it first came out and didn't make any money and didn't really become very popular and

00:29:26.200 it's kind of funny that people don't know it wasn't originally released as a christmas movie

00:29:30.180 i think it was released in in may or something like that and it wasn't until it accidentally got

00:29:34.960 into the public domain and tv stations started to air it all the time in the 70s and 80s because it was

00:29:39.340 free that it became this christmas classic yeah that's that's right it it really was 10 years ahead

00:29:45.080 of its time there's no way you can think otherwise because it did okay in 1946 but public tastes had

00:29:52.860 changed so much you know film noir was very big at that time musicals were kind of dying and here's

00:29:59.240 this crazy picture that you can't even type it it's so odd and it's it's such a downer all the way

00:30:05.560 through until the last reel you know when there's redemption and and it just it didn't catch on until

00:30:11.520 as you say you know it started to be shown on tv in the 50s and then it became just this holly

00:30:18.280 you know this this magical christmas picture and the funny thing is that jim did not like it when

00:30:24.260 it came out you know he was a populist if the public liked it he liked it if the public didn't

00:30:30.060 then he thought it was bad luck so he didn't embrace its wonderful life for the first 10 years

00:30:35.720 which people really don't realize yeah and i love how you point out that his war experience

00:30:40.100 probably influenced his acting i mean you start seeing in it's in it's a wonderful life you know

00:30:45.340 that scene where george bailey is in the bar and he's crying and he's praying and you make the case

00:30:51.100 that that intensity that desperation you see in george bailey james is probably going back to his

00:30:57.160 time in a b-24 when engines were on fire and things were just going to hell and he brings that to his

00:31:02.720 george bailey character yeah that scene where he's leaning over the bar and cries and praise he only did

00:31:09.200 that take one time because you know capper said yeah cut print that one let's do it again and and jim

00:31:15.040 looked up and tears in his eyes because he had just poured his emotions out and he said i can't

00:31:21.460 do it again you know you better have gotten it because that's it and so that one take is the one

00:31:26.680 that's in the picture and the other one that always impresses me as being the blind rage jimmy stewart is

00:31:32.660 when he breaks up his living room he's got those models and he he slams them against the wall and he

00:31:38.440 screams at his family you know jim's wife whom he married in 1949 gloria said that that was jim jim

00:31:46.860 jim had rages like that you don't think of him that way but he had an incredible temper when it was

00:31:53.300 unleashed and it goes straight back to the war you know it's it's it's that it's the triggers were there

00:32:00.340 always with jim after the war well let's talk about his wife he decided to settle down i think you

00:32:05.820 talk about it in the book even when he was serving he would look wistfully and i think a little long

00:32:11.500 longingly at some of these younger guys in their 20s who had wives you know they had someone to

00:32:15.820 write home to they had someone to look forward to seeing when they got home and and jim wanted that

00:32:19.900 and he decided during the war that he he was ready to settle down with a woman that would be his

00:32:24.740 companion for life instead of eye candy and that would that he would just take out on the town and be

00:32:29.300 shot with by photographers yeah you know jim never had anything against eye candy all his life

00:32:34.220 don't get you know but but um but yeah he he did he he had no one he he dated dinah shore who was a

00:32:43.360 singer and and actress during the war and they almost went to vegas and got married but he got

00:32:51.180 cold feet at the last minute and that was the last real romantic involvement that he had during the war

00:32:57.080 and so he did see these guys named their planes after their wives or girlfriends wrote to them all the

00:33:02.780 time talked about oh there there's you know i my kid turned one whatever and jim had nobody he had

00:33:08.680 nobody so he came back and and really drifted around trying to date here and there and he finally met

00:33:15.680 gloria she didn't like him at first because he was drunk when they met it but then finally when he

00:33:21.260 settled down it was for keeps and there are rumors that he had affairs after with kim novak and grace

00:33:27.980 kelly in particular but i just don't believe it because he didn't need to prove himself anymore

00:33:32.620 and he you know he became a really good dad and and husband in the last 30 40 years of his life

00:33:41.280 so after the war he had a really successful career there's it's a wonderful life kind of jump-started

00:33:45.540 him get got the gears rolling he got hooked up with alfred hitchcock and he made several popular

00:33:50.100 films with him including vertigo and but what many people don't realize is that even after the war

00:33:55.280 stewart continued his career in the military in the reserves can you talk a little bit about that

00:33:59.080 in 1945 you know the army downsized drew down tremendously and and jim realized there was really

00:34:05.460 nothing for him he had risen to the rank of full colonel uh so but he he wanted to keep his hand in

00:34:15.200 you know he still believed in military service and he believed in defending your country and the

00:34:19.900 communist threat was on the rise so he joined the air force reserve and stayed in it until 1968

00:34:26.840 and in in 1957 he was promoted to brigadier general and you can see if you look at his personnel files

00:34:35.200 how his priorities change and after a while and into the 1960s he's just counting points so that he can

00:34:45.480 retire with full pay you know he would get points for going and appearing at a banquet or whatever

00:34:50.160 you know it was it was far from combat duty he did go back in the mid-60s and fly one last combat mission

00:34:59.900 over vietnam in a b-52 as an observer just really to serve as you know morale builder for the troops in the

00:35:09.300 vietnam war which was a really tough war he wanted to sort of say it's very very important that we fight

00:35:18.140 the communists here he was a very very strong anti-communist so yeah he he used his military

00:35:24.520 service in different ways through the 1960s until he finally retired at age 60 and called it a career

00:35:32.580 there's a great picture of him as a brigadier general he's very dapper looking definitely older he's

00:35:37.880 got the gray in his hair the much older jimmy stewart that we all know but robert i'm curious

00:35:43.060 as a biographer and during this research and writing process about this part of jimmy stewart's

00:35:48.340 life were there life lessons that you took away as you wrote this book yeah i i am endlessly impressed

00:35:55.360 with jim's commitment to service and how he sorted out what was really important in life and and yeah

00:36:04.040 it it it makes you think you know when you see what these guys went through and then you can't get

00:36:11.600 the internet to work you know there's really no comparison you're not having a bad day having a bad

00:36:17.820 day is a flaming engine at 20 000 feet four hours from home with fighters swarming around you know so

00:36:26.180 yeah there are there are big lessons to be learned here about letting go of the little things because

00:36:31.480 there are there is life and death out there and you know you will get your internet to work but you

00:36:37.940 might not get home when you're in combat you know so so yeah i i come out of this with with respect for

00:36:44.640 all of those world war ii guys and what they accomplished well it's been a great conversation

00:36:49.080 where can people learn more about your book mission go to amazon amazon is is all but my website is

00:36:55.420 robertmatson m-a-t-z-e-n.com i have a blog there where i talk a lot about you know about writing

00:37:01.880 and about the various backstories involved in mission and my other books so you know it's been

00:37:07.500 great to be with you and thanks for the great question robert matson thank you so much for your

00:37:11.600 time it's been a pleasure thanks brett my guest today was robert matson he's the author of the book

00:37:15.580 mission jimmy stewart and the fight for europe it's available on amazon.com and bookstores

00:37:19.760 everywhere you can find out more information about robert's work at robertmatson.com also check

00:37:25.100 out our show notes at aom.is slash stewart where you can find links to resources where you can delve

00:37:29.460 deeper into this topic well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more

00:37:39.760 manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com if you

00:37:43.640 enjoy the show i'd appreciate if you give us a review on itunes or stitcher that helps us out a lot

00:37:47.080 spreads the word about the show as always thank you for your continued support and until next time

00:37:50.780 this is brett mckay telling you to stay manly

The Art of Manliness - March 30, 2017

#291： The Untold Story of Jimmy Stewart's WWII Service

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