The Art of Manliness - April 18, 2017


#296: How to Find Your Life's Purpose


Episode Stats


Length

38 minutes

Words per minute

166.11241

Word count

6,427

Sentence count

6

Harmful content

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

After conducting a landmark 25-year study, my guest argues that a major factor in young adults' failure to launch is actually rooted in their difficulty in finding a purpose for their life. His name is William Damon, and he's a professor of education at Stanford University. In this episode, we discuss the results of his study and the importance of having an overarching aim in life.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast there's been a lot
00:00:18.940 of ink spilt in the past decade about young adults quote-unquote failure to launch wherein
00:00:22.740 20-somethings who should be progressing into independent adulthood end up spending that
00:00:26.680 decade of their life in a sort of extended adolescence several reasons have been given
00:00:30.000 for this phenomenon from the economy to helicopter parenting after conducting a landmark 25-year
00:00:34.800 study my guest today argues that a major factor in young adults failure to launch is actually rooted
00:00:40.260 in their difficulty in finding a purpose for their life his name is william damon he's a professor of
00:00:44.520 education at stanford university and today on the show we discuss the results of his study and the
00:00:48.720 importance of having an overarching aim in life these are themes of his book the path to purpose
00:00:53.280 begin our conversation discussing the criteria of a good life's purpose and why fewer young people
00:00:57.440 have one today we then discuss why more young people are prioritizing fame and fortune over
00:01:01.800 public service compared to their peers a half century ago the new places many young people are 0.70
00:01:06.060 finding purpose today and why that's led to a decrease in civic engagement and the benefits that
00:01:10.420 come from having a clear purpose in life we end by talking about how a young person even those longer
00:01:14.500 in the tooth who still feel adrift can find a life's purpose and what parents can do to help their
00:01:18.580 children find theirs after the show's over check out the show notes at aom.is slash path to purpose
00:01:23.780 professor william damon welcome to the show thank you so you wrote a book called the path to purpose
00:01:36.840 and it was the capstone of this 25-year study that you did on how young people find fulfilling
00:01:45.320 purposes in their life i'm curious what was the impetus behind that 25-year study why did you think
00:01:50.800 it had to be done when i realized that the studies that i'd been doing on young people's identity and
00:02:01.440 their values and how they succeed in life and the kind of commitments they make that the real master
00:02:09.260 concept that i was groping towards at the time and not really understanding what was bringing all this
00:02:17.280 together that that master concept really was the kinds of goals long-term goals that some young
00:02:27.880 people develop uh and when they do they get a sense of direction that brings them through the hard times
00:02:36.320 the uncertainties especially in adolescence and early adulthood when you don't really know what your
00:02:43.060 future is going to be and i had a realization that what was really driving the successful young people
00:02:53.600 was that they had found something that they could dedicate their lives to something that they believed in
00:02:59.300 that was beyond the self that was something larger than their own immediate short-term desires to get
00:03:07.800 into a good college or get a job or have fun or any of the kinds of things that normally drive young
00:03:14.600 people and all those things are fine and they're part of growing up but what really made a difference
00:03:21.020 for the young people that seemed to have a great sense of certainty and satisfaction and fulfillment about
00:03:27.360 their lives was that they had found something to commit themselves to and that concept was purpose and
00:03:34.480 i think that some of the things that i read at the time i was reading for example victor frankl's
00:03:40.260 wonderful book about man's search for meaning and his own struggles and trials and how he found
00:03:46.500 purpose and that got him through a terrible time when he was imprisoned in germany i read some theology
00:03:54.920 uh rick warren's book on the purpose-driven life which of course was a religious book that was very
00:04:03.000 inspiring to me and a number of other sources that i realized finally that this was the idea that pulled
00:04:12.360 together all of the insights that i'd had previously about identity and goal directedness and moral
00:04:21.080 commitment and all of the all of the many related things that i've been interested in purpose brought
00:04:27.780 it all together i think you've kind of alluded to the definition of purpose through that answer you
00:04:32.220 just gave so first it's it's something outside of yourself but how else what are the other factors
00:04:36.920 that you found that make for a purpose in life right and this is a really good question because
00:04:42.420 of course people use purpose in the common language in a million different ways
00:04:46.520 and sometimes they use it as if it's synonymous with words like passion for example or meaning
00:04:54.620 and all of these other words are related in some way but purpose has its own particular meaning if it
00:05:03.780 didn't you wouldn't even need the word what my group did my research team did for it actually took
00:05:10.380 about a year uh was to do a an examination of how philosophers and theologians and other people
00:05:18.780 had been using the word in a particular way and so we came up with a definition that i think is now
00:05:25.820 being used in a lot of scientific studies beyond our own which relies on a number of criteria that are
00:05:31.860 and they're all important and one of the important aspects of purpose is that it is a long-term goal
00:05:40.900 it's a long-term intention it's not a short it's not going to town and trying to find a parking place
00:05:46.900 or trying to go to a good movie or get a date on saturday night or earn some money or or get into a
00:05:54.280 college it's it's not a finite short-term goal it's a long-term future horizon kind of perspective
00:06:01.160 and it's enduring so that's number one number two it's something that is meaningful that's an
00:06:07.820 important part of it so nobody can give you your purpose and say you've got to do it that's not a
00:06:13.960 purpose if you're just carrying out somebody's orders it's something that you own yourself that
00:06:19.160 you buy into that you believe in so it has to be meaningful to you and then third and this is an
00:06:25.460 important distinction between other things that are meaningful to you is that it's something beyond
00:06:30.880 the self it's not just all about me all about my own interests my own development my own protection
00:06:39.720 and again there's nothing wrong with being concerned about meaningfulness to yourself but
00:06:47.380 this purpose is something more than that it's a desire to have consequence on the world beyond the
00:06:53.560 self in some way it could be something altruistic contributing to the welfare of others it could be
00:07:00.840 something aesthetic creating something beautiful or something interesting lasting in the world it could be
00:07:07.480 scientific learning or discovering something about the world there are lots of forms of going beyond the
00:07:13.560 self but it's not all about my own fulfillment my own satisfaction my own happiness it's something that
00:07:22.560 engages you in the broader universe so when you put all of these criteria together that gives you the
00:07:32.240 unique definition of the word purpose and it's consistent as i said with the way a lot of previous
00:07:40.800 philosophers and other scholars and other people have written about it but we wanted to make it really
00:07:46.160 clear because we do scientific work and when you do scientific work every word has to be defined in a way that
00:07:52.900 distinguishes it from other terms obviously
00:07:55.840 so in this 25 year study that you did did you follow like the same cohort of individuals or were you
00:08:02.400 interviewing lots of people different people within that 25 years well we do not have a 25 year study of any one
00:08:10.160 cohort we've we have actually it's a program of research it's a 25 year program of research which consists of
00:08:17.200 a number of different studies we have one longitudinal data set that we began in the early 2000s which would
00:08:26.560 be about 15 years ago and we've been following those young people i think remembering right our most recent
00:08:34.480 follow-up was maybe 2010 and we have plans to go back if we can but generally we do longitudinal work and we
00:08:43.520 follow young people or for a few years and as long as we have an opportunity to do that i will say that we have
00:08:53.040 a study now of people at midlife begins when people are 50 or above and we're very interested in purpose as
00:09:01.680 as folks age and as they even retire from their initial job or their children leave home and they
00:09:13.840 have to search for new purposes in life what we call encore purposes and so we're very interested in
00:09:20.320 purpose as a lifelong capacity that is important all through life not just when you're a young adult but
00:09:26.960 when when you're in midlife and when you're an older person this research you've done on young
00:09:31.520 people did you find that a lot of young people didn't have a purpose in life or didn't have a
00:09:36.320 clear purpose they were aiming for we found a um a number of different groups of young people in our
00:09:44.640 initial study only about one in five of the young people between the ages of 12 and 22 had really clear
00:09:54.000 strong purposes already developed which leaves 80 percent that did not but of those 80 percent about
00:10:02.160 two-thirds or three-quarters of those young folks had begun to search for purpose had initial
00:10:11.440 leanings or ideas or inclinations or interests that would lead them to purpose
00:10:16.720 and there were a number a small number 20 to 25 percent of the total population that had not even begun their
00:10:24.240 search and we're still drifting so we found a lot of heterogeneity in that population but but it's a
00:10:33.920 moving target and as they grow a lot of the young people that had not found purpose began or moved
00:10:40.960 ahead or or began to find commitments that they that they could really care about within your research were
00:10:47.200 you able to find any any changes in generations what was it like maybe 50 years ago with baby
00:10:53.760 boomers when they were young do you have any comparison between that well not not research
00:10:58.160 wise because of course i wasn't doing that i'm a baby boomer myself and uh i wasn't doing research
00:11:03.600 50 years ago i was being a young person myself and nobody was doing this kind of work so we don't
00:11:09.920 really have anything like a a solid scientific comparison with the same measures i will say that
00:11:18.000 in reading history about previous generations it does seem to me that there are periods in every
00:11:25.200 society where there is a strong sense of national purpose for example in reading about the lives of
00:11:33.600 young people during the great depression which the sociologist glenn elder has written about in
00:11:40.080 a book called children of the great depression it was pretty clear that a lot of the young people
00:11:45.120 growing up in families that did not have very much and the the dad was out of work and everyone was
00:11:52.640 scrambling around to survive economically these young people really pulled together and shoulder a
00:11:58.960 lot of the family burdens and had a ready-made purpose that they could devote themselves to which
00:12:04.880 is helping their families get through these hard times so and that generation according to the
00:12:11.680 previous sociological research looked very good in their uh in their further development in fact
00:12:18.560 that was the generation that later became called the greatest generation by i think it was tom brokaw who
00:12:23.840 wrote that book and i think there's some point to that there are times in history when there are national
00:12:30.880 purposes of course world war ii was another example where the whole society really bought into it that was the
00:12:37.760 same generation when it was when it was a bit older and i think it is kind of a ready-made purpose that
00:12:43.520 does make it a bit easier for young people to find commitments that they can devote themselves to
00:12:49.200 commitments that are beyond the self and i think in our time things are a bit confusing for young people
00:12:56.320 because the world has so many options and especially with globalization and technology and even the world of work
00:13:04.880 is changing so that fewer and fewer people are going into a corporation and expecting to stay there for
00:13:12.000 40 or 50 years and be a loyal member of that company that's that that's becoming more and more rare
00:13:20.240 people aren't living in the same communities anymore they're moving all over the place the age of
00:13:25.440 marriage and family formation has gone has gone has become much older even less common so all of these
00:13:35.280 big purposes in life are becoming more elusive for this generation so i i think that it is it it's a
00:13:43.040 challenge right now for a young person to find a purpose but young people are there are plenty of
00:13:48.640 young people that are uh successful in this i guess the other challenge too with technology you mentioned
00:13:53.760 that is a lot of the technology is very individualistic it's very self-referential
00:13:58.480 right like social media yes that's exactly right and the whole sense of community is elusive these days
00:14:06.000 and all the research that we look at shows increasing amounts of social isolation at all ages and
00:14:14.480 interestingly it's at the youngest ages that you find the most increase in social isolation in the data
00:14:21.120 that i've seen so not having a community of actual real life people that you can meet with face to
00:14:27.760 face beyond the social media kind of interactions that again removes one great source of purpose from
00:14:37.680 young people's lives and you mentioned a study that was done where they compared and contrast you
00:14:42.880 know what college students priorities in life were say 50 years ago to what they are today and i think it
00:14:48.400 was 50 years ago the top priority was to you know do meaningful work or something like that and now
00:14:53.760 it's for a lot of young people it's to be rich and famous is that is that my reference in the right study
00:14:59.600 yes that came out of ucla a group in ucla that has studied everything from uh goals to spirituality
00:15:07.920 in life and and that is what they found that at least when they did that research now that research is
00:15:13.680 not totally current i believe it's about 20 years old at this point but sandy astin is the person who
00:15:20.880 did that work but at least at that point that's right there were a strong trend towards more material
00:15:28.800 and uh career oriented goals rather than that that are that were not personally meaningful
00:15:34.400 i can't say for sure if if that trend is continued or not because as i said earlier it's a very
00:15:42.320 heterogeneous population and we find lots of distinctions between how young people are approaching
00:15:48.800 their futures there certainly is a thriving number of young people who are very idealistic that that hasn't
00:15:55.840 gone away it's it's more that i think when they confront the world of work and the necessity to
00:16:04.080 kind of get out there and compete in the in the economy they're getting messages that tend to orient
00:16:11.120 them to more materialistic kinds of goals one manifestation of that you go into detail about
00:16:16.400 the book is that fewer young people are even have an interest of in doing public service or running for
00:16:22.720 political office nowadays the lowest number of young people the smallest percentage of purposeful aims
00:16:33.440 of all the different sources of purpose was the idea of civic leadership of some kind
00:16:39.360 the sources of purpose that were popular uh in in our studies included family the idea of forming a
00:16:47.040 family of supporting a family vocation which of course is always a big source of purpose for young people
00:16:55.760 faith other kinds of community goals like charity and that kind of thing service but the idea of getting
00:17:02.160 involved in leadership in your community such as running for mayor of your town or joining the school board or
00:17:10.000 being on city council that was not high on the uh on the list of many young people that was the smallest
00:17:17.440 portion of young people that had his goals and i know that must have changed uh from at least when i was
00:17:23.360 young because i remember a lot of my schoolmates in my classes in high school i had definitely had civic
00:17:31.040 aspirations so i think that even though we weren't doing research back then i think it's fair to say that this
00:17:37.760 has been a decrease over the years were you able to get any insights as to why young people were less
00:17:42.880 interested in civic leadership and did they give reasons why they had no interest in that whatsoever
00:17:47.280 it's hard to generalize about that i i think i mean part of it is that the other sources of purpose have
00:17:56.320 become so attractive to young people for example family to give you one example um and family is a great
00:18:03.680 source of purpose i don't want to disparage it at all but i will note that this is a very family
00:18:09.920 oriented cohort of young people uh which is different than when i was young when i was young
00:18:16.320 there was a much bigger um emphasis on autonomy of breaking away from the family those are the days of
00:18:23.200 what was called the generation gap the idea that gee i'm going to devote my life to to supporting a
00:18:29.280 family or or being connected with my extended family taking care of my mom and dad i mean these
00:18:36.800 are wonderful aspirations but they they were not high on the radar screen family now is a very laudatory
00:18:44.160 and admirable goal that young people have and the same thing for work i think young people really
00:18:50.560 are concerned about having a good career and there is almost a sense of insecurity among young people
00:18:57.200 that gee am i going to find something that is going to be both interesting and rewarding
00:19:01.840 and i think that when i was younger there was a much stronger sense of security that the economy would
00:19:07.520 somehow take care of us and it might have been a it might have been a time of more affluence uh
00:19:13.600 generally i think there's been a lot written about how the economy has gotten so hard for so many
00:19:20.000 groups of people so i think that it's probably a case that these other sources of purpose are now so
00:19:25.760 compelling that they pulled young people away from the public sphere in ways that were not the case
00:19:32.640 generation or two ago that could help the individual but that could have effects for us
00:19:37.200 as a society with fewer people engaged in civic life certainly and it's it's an important part of
00:19:45.280 becoming a mature adult to to care about the society at large to become a good citizen uh to contribute
00:19:54.080 and of course a lot of this i mean you remember the work that we had done in this area is really
00:19:59.760 focused on young people in adolescent and early adult period between the ages of say 12 and 25 or 26 or
00:20:09.440 something like that they're going to keep developing they're going to keep growing and so a lot of these
00:20:14.640 concerns could well be in their future and i always say it's very important that development
00:20:21.200 does not stop uh at the end of high school or at the end of college or even at the end of young
00:20:27.840 adulthood as long as the brain is alive people keep learning and growing all through life so a lot of the
00:20:34.560 things that we're looking at that are not yet complete are very likely to happen for at least
00:20:41.760 a lot of the young people that we've been looking at so let's talk about the benefits of having a life
00:20:46.880 purpose in your research what are some of the benefits you and your team found that come with
00:20:51.760 having a clearly defined purpose well certainly motivation energy resilience if you have something
00:21:00.240 beyond the self that you're dedicated to it helps you get through all of the tough times that inevitably
00:21:08.080 all of us have you bounce back failure does not discourage you because you don't take it personally
00:21:14.080 it's not all about you you're not your main source of concern you care about the cause that you're
00:21:20.400 dedicating yourself to or the goals that you have what you're trying to accomplish so you keep going
00:21:26.640 so all of the motivational benefits of purpose are really clear and then of course when you're highly
00:21:33.200 motivated with something and you're really engaged and working hard to get it accomplished there is
00:21:40.320 there is a sense of satisfaction to that there's a sense of that life flows that you are brought out
00:21:48.080 of yourself into something that that you really care about i also think that a lot of people have talked
00:21:53.840 about emotional states like joy and passion and i think that often these do accompany purpose but they're
00:22:02.720 not the same thing and i do want to point out because i think it's a mistake that people make is that
00:22:08.800 purpose is not always accomplished every minute by a sense of joy or a sense of passion a lot of times
00:22:16.400 it's uh it's a uh story of drudgery and just uh diligence and grit and keeping things going even when
00:22:25.760 it's not very much fun and that's what commitment is it's it's sticking with things but in the long run it brings
00:22:33.360 you a lot of satisfaction it doesn't mean that every moment you're full of flow and passion and joy and
00:22:38.960 all of those positive emotions but in the long run it's a very satisfying fulfilling sense that you you
00:22:46.560 have really worked to accomplish something and you care about it and you've made some progress on it so i
00:22:53.360 think it is a a strength in life it's something that it's a capacity that brings a lot of personal
00:22:59.760 rewards those rewards include often a sense of joy but more importantly they include a sense of
00:23:07.840 great satisfaction and as i said resilience and energy and motivation and i will say one other
00:23:14.080 thing that there have been studies in gerontology i mentioned that we are doing some work at the upper
00:23:19.840 end of the age span and there's work in gerontology that seems to indicate that purpose is connected with
00:23:26.880 health and a decrease in both morbidity and mortality we haven't done that work ourselves but the field
00:23:34.560 of gerontology has reported that kind of finding how do people go about finding a purpose in life and
00:23:40.080 what did you guys see is it something you sit down at a journal and you you know you answer some
00:23:44.960 questions and you boom you have a purpose or is it much more fluid and organic it's more organic and it
00:23:52.880 starts small like everything in life it begins with having interests that you pursue there are some
00:23:59.600 conditions that promote it for example having someone in your life that you admire somebody that
00:24:07.040 is like a mentor or that demonstrates to you what a life of purpose can look like it could be a parent
00:24:13.840 it could be a teacher it could be somebody that you work for that's a big help having what you do in life
00:24:20.720 matters that it makes a difference taking what you do seriously there are two great realizations that
00:24:26.880 every young person or every person who we've seen who has developed purpose
00:24:34.320 has at some point uh and one one revelation is that what i do in this world matters i can make a
00:24:40.560 difference and the other revelation is that the world needs something that there is some way that
00:24:47.200 what i do can improve or help either help other people or add something to the world that's
00:24:53.840 valuable and it can be something very consequential it could be something very consequential like the
00:25:00.000 young people that want to go into medicine and cure cancer or something like that very serious
00:25:05.760 kinds of goals or it could be something that is not a response to something a problem in life but
00:25:13.120 just something that adds to the world like one young person that we studied felt that scales the
00:25:19.840 musical scales used in jazz music had gotten boring so he was dedicating himself to writing new scales
00:25:27.520 and trying them out with new kinds of music so it could be something ordinary like raising a family it could
00:25:33.520 be something heroic like wanting to be an astronaut there's always the sense that i can do something that
00:25:40.160 matters and it matters to the world and beyond that the world actually needs this the world can uh
00:25:46.880 there's a deficit there's something that is missing that i can add to and when those two insights are
00:25:54.960 combined and then the person devotes some time to learning how to do this to learning how to develop the
00:26:03.280 skills that will enable the person to make the contribution that's when purpose really starts
00:26:09.040 moving that's when the capacity really begins to develop and i thought it was an interesting
00:26:12.640 point that your research found that you know parents can be a source sort of a mentor but you
00:26:16.800 found that it's often non-familial or non-parental mentors who have the most impact on a on a young
00:26:23.200 person yeah that's great i'm really glad you said that and put it that way because that's that's exactly
00:26:28.800 right and it's something that a lot of parents don't realize i think i think some parents or even a lot
00:26:35.120 of parents feel that it's their obligation to help write the script of life for their child and of
00:26:41.840 course parents have a lot to offer and they certainly can provide a lot of wisdom and information that's
00:26:49.200 hugely helpful for young people but you cannot write the script of life for your child and we usually
00:26:56.400 found in most of the cases we looked at that the purpose that the young person had discovered was not
00:27:04.080 given to them by their parent we did not find many cases of for example a father saying well our
00:27:12.960 family has had three generations of lawyers in it we have this great law firm or this great family
00:27:19.760 business and now your purpose is going to be to carry on and uh and be a be a lawyer just like i was
00:27:28.080 uh or an engineer like i've been we find that the young person has to bring himself or herself to
00:27:36.160 that and if that doesn't happen the purpose will not take it will not endure what parents can do is
00:27:44.320 introduce their children to possibilities they can listen hard to hear what the interests are that
00:27:52.480 their children have developed on their own they can provide resources and support and encouragement
00:27:59.360 for the child's interests but they cannot give the child a purpose and say okay this is your purpose
00:28:05.760 now go do it that doesn't work it it we've never seen a case where that works so parents are are really
00:28:13.840 really important they're uh uh in fact most of the young people with purpose uh had parents who had
00:28:22.560 encouraged them in some way and had added a lot to their lives but it wasn't introducing the purpose
00:28:28.960 or defining it for the child it was uh something much more indirect so besides introducing them to
00:28:35.840 opportunities possibilities listening to your child would another way that parents can help facilitate
00:28:41.520 their children finding a purpose in life is maybe sharing their story of how they found their purpose
00:28:47.600 in life exactly that that's exactly right and again i'm glad you said that because i was i was going
00:28:53.440 to uh i was remembering that that was the one thing i had not gotten around to mentioning and again this is
00:28:59.520 amazingly uncommon we find when we interview young people sometimes we'll ask them what their parents are
00:29:07.520 doing for their living uh with what mom or dad does and the young person will say something like well you
00:29:15.200 know my dad uh works on a computer all day uh you know he types a bunch of stuff in i don't know what
00:29:20.560 i don't know what it it's for but uh he works very hard or or you know mom goes out and goes to the office
00:29:28.080 and comes back and they don't really know that maybe what uh what their dad has done on the computer all day
00:29:34.640 has eventuated in a truckload of sardines uh going to tennessee or texas or that in other words it has
00:29:43.600 some value to the world that something is happening that would not have happened if mom hadn't gone to
00:29:49.600 the office or if dad hadn't typed on the computer all day and what's really valuable for young people is
00:29:57.120 when their parents actually talk about what it is that they are accomplishing in life why it is
00:30:04.160 meaningful to them and what problems they might have had what what do they have to overcome what
00:30:10.000 are their frustrations what kind of resilience have they had to muster in order to done what they want to
00:30:18.080 get done and other adults too have the same opportunities one of the things i always tell teachers is that
00:30:26.720 you have a great opportunity to tell your students why you find teaching meaningful why is that your
00:30:34.480 calling in life and again i'm surprised at how few teachers ever do this it's it's not the point isn't
00:30:41.840 to convince students to become teachers themselves that's not the point at all the point is to show
00:30:49.440 young people what it is like for a grown-up to have a sense of purpose and if the young people see that
00:30:58.880 they'll make their own meaning out of it and they will find their own way to to have their own kind of
00:31:06.160 calling but it is enormously helpful for them to hear mom and dad or a teacher or some other adult
00:31:13.440 uh explain to them why it is that the work that they do the grown-ups do is meaningful and important
00:31:23.360 and purposeful professor damu i know we have a lot of listeners who are you know in their early 20s mid
00:31:28.320 20s and they're in that point in their life where they're trying to figure out what their purpose is
00:31:31.920 do you have any advice or insights based on your research and what they can start doing to to lock down on
00:31:37.440 that purpose yeah uh and let me say as a background don't worry too much or or get too impatient purpose
00:31:48.400 just as purpose is a long-term goal it takes a while to develop the capacity for purpose and to find
00:31:54.320 purposes that actually do match your interests and your beliefs and your abilities and there's a lot of
00:32:03.040 back and forth experimentation that happens especially these days when there are so many options out
00:32:09.520 there so don't don't worry too much if it doesn't happen right away and periods of trial and error are
00:32:16.640 fine as long as there is some sense of forward movement that you've learned from your experiments
00:32:25.200 you've learned from trying out this job or or doing this kind of activity it can take quite a while
00:32:32.000 i mean a lot of the young people we've looked at by age 30 have had 14 15 different jobs already so
00:32:38.640 vocationally they have not yet gotten there where they've really settled in i think one of the
00:32:43.440 important things that does help is to try to honestly and frankly identify what your skills are what
00:32:52.720 you're particularly uh able to do and in an honest way because i mean to give you an extreme example you
00:33:00.000 might love basketball but you're not going to be a professional basketball player if you're five
00:33:04.800 feet five inches tall so you know you have to be honest about and maybe if you love basketball then
00:33:11.120 you could go into basketball education or ad or or basketball marketing or something like that but you
00:33:16.960 wouldn't want to try out for the golden state warriors or something like that so that's an analogy that
00:33:23.680 applies to everything and every kind of career i mean there are lots of young people that want to be uh
00:33:28.560 going to go into the film industry or be script writers or film directors and or actors and actresses
00:33:35.280 and a few of them have those kind of talents uh most will not and you need to honestly assess what
00:33:42.640 you're able to do and listen to other people when they give you feedback about that that's number one
00:33:47.600 number two you have to honestly look at what the world needs you know you're not when i was a child
00:33:54.480 when i was eight years old my big dream in life was to become a whaler because i grew up in the part of
00:34:00.800 in the section of new england where there were back in the 1800s they used to send whaling ships out all
00:34:06.080 over the world and it was a tremendous romantic fantasy that you could actually go and do something
00:34:10.880 like that and it didn't take me long to realize that guess what the world doesn't need people going out
00:34:16.880 uh catching whales anymore so that was not a good choice for an occupation and again that's an extreme
00:34:23.840 analogy but the point is that you do have to make an honest assessment of what the world needs what's
00:34:28.480 the market like and the combination of it's really three things that you have to define for yourself
00:34:34.960 what you're good at doing what you're capable of in other words what the world needs and what you
00:34:41.120 believe in what you're interested in what what you can imagine enjoying for decades of your life and
00:34:47.600 when you can pull these three things together and combine them into one commitment that that you uh
00:34:55.280 pursue uh that's when you are on the road to purpose uh and as i said it can take a long time
00:35:03.040 there's nothing wrong with that especially these days where the economy is changing it's very complicated
00:35:10.080 there's new industries growing up all the time there aren't ready-made niches for you to go in
00:35:17.120 you can take your time but always try to move forward and learn and learn about those three
00:35:22.720 things learn about what you're good at doing learn about what the world needs and learn about what you
00:35:28.160 believe in and what you're interested in and what you can imagine getting a lot of satisfaction out of
00:35:33.600 committing yourself to yeah i love that idea of moving forward and particularly the analogy you gave in
00:35:38.640 the book the equilibration you had that psychologist you know what's the best way to stay afloat in
00:35:43.600 water and it's not to float that's actually really hard to do if you've done that if you're a grown
00:35:48.720 man it's you're heavy you start sinking but it's just to swim forward right right it's again it's a
00:35:53.600 little counterintuitive yeah being static is is not a good way to get balance in life it turns out
00:35:59.680 it's moving forward it's developing it's growing it's changing that's how you actually balance
00:36:05.840 yourself in the world not just by standing still and uh and as i said you you kind of know in life
00:36:14.080 when you're learning something and you and remember you learn through your failures as well as your
00:36:18.640 successes so that's why i always when i write i always urge people at all ages to don't don't be impatient
00:36:26.640 and don't get discouraged uh just keep moving forward and things will uh you you will learn
00:36:33.520 as long as the brain is alive and and uh you're open to experience you will learn and grow well
00:36:40.560 professor damien is there some place people can go to learn more about your work we have a website on
00:36:45.840 my center at stanford i'm a professor at stanford university and we have a center at stanford that i
00:36:54.000 direct called the center on adolescence it's stanford coa it's the website and on that website we
00:37:01.120 constantly post all of the research the journal articles that my students do that my colleagues do
00:37:08.960 i write when i write something it goes up there so that's the best way to keep current about uh about
00:37:15.440 the research on on the development of purpose that we're doing and as i say we have projects going at
00:37:20.320 all ages now uh from early adulthood up through old age the stanford center on adolescence website
00:37:27.360 even though it's called center on adolescence we actually most of our research now is done on
00:37:32.400 early adulthood mid mid life and older age and we connect it back of course to what happens early
00:37:39.920 in life fantastic well professor damon thank you so much for your time it's been a pleasure for me too
00:37:43.760 i appreciate and and thank you for your good insights too into uh into what we've been doing
00:37:48.560 my guest today was william damon he's a professor of education at stanford university he's also the
00:37:52.240 author of the book path to purpose it's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere you can
00:37:56.160 also find out more information about his work at williamdamon.com also check out our show notes at
00:38:00.480 aom.is slash path to purpose all one word where you can find links to resources where you can delve
00:38:05.120 deeper into this topic well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for
00:38:11.760 more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website at
00:38:14.960 artofmanliness.com if you enjoy the show the podcast and have gotten something out of it over
00:38:18.880 the years i'd appreciate it if you take a minute or two to give us a review on itunes or stitcher
00:38:22.320 that helps us get the word out about the show as always thank you for your continued support and
00:38:26.080 until next time this is brad mckay telling you to stay manly