The Art of Manliness - #345： Not Caring What Other People Think Is a Superpower

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast oftentimes when

00:00:19.060 you start making positive changes for the better in your life you're gonna have people even people

00:00:23.080 really close to you who claim to care about you intentionally or unintentionally try to discourage

00:00:28.260 you from your path in those moments you have to develop the ability to shrug off your critics and

00:00:32.520 not let them drag you back down to their level my guest today has succeeded in that struggle and

00:00:37.040 shares the lessons he learned in his athlete title book not caring what other people think is a

00:00:41.100 superpower his name is ed latimore and besides being a writer he's a professional boxer is about

00:00:45.500 to complete his degree in physics served for the national guard as an americorps volunteer and is

00:00:49.540 an avid chess player today on the show ed shares how he wasn't always this ambitious and how he

00:00:53.800 spent most of his 20s dorking around he then shares the moment when he decided to get serious with his

00:00:57.740 life and the steps he took to start college in his late 20s we then dig into some of the themes

00:01:01.860 in ed's book specifically how to develop discipline even though you're not motivated to why you have

00:01:06.040 to embrace being mediocre to become great and the difference between good pain and bad pain ed then

00:01:10.860 shares what it's like to lose a boxing match on national television and the lessons he learned on

00:01:15.640 failure from that match he also shares insights on how to deal with success specifically how to keep

00:01:20.860 that edge even when things are going well for you we then end our conversation talking about why not

00:01:25.200 caring about what people think is a superpower and why sometimes the people closest to you don't want

00:01:29.860 to see you change your life for the better this is a great show packed with actionable insights

00:01:33.520 after the show's over check out the show notes at aom.is slash latimore

00:01:37.580 ed latimore welcome to the show hey thanks for having me today all right you got a really

00:01:46.440 interesting background we're gonna talk about your book not caring about what people think about you

00:01:50.640 as a superpower but let's talk about your background because it's interesting you're a professional

00:01:54.540 boxer uh-huh you do a club chess yep um you're competitive at that i mean like you say you're

00:02:00.480 a competitive person uh it's not competitive competitive but yeah yeah it's a you do club

00:02:05.900 chess uh on the uh on the campus team i'm definitely the strongest player here or camp or campus club team

00:02:12.560 because i love studying the game and improving i don't really have hobbies because i don't know how

00:02:17.560 to just my only hobby is karaoke and even then when i'm done with this degree i'm probably going to go

00:02:22.700 and and take some singing lessons and get better there you go well so yeah you're working on a

00:02:27.340 degree in physics as well and then you also find time to serve in the national guard so let's talk

00:02:32.340 about how did you go about developing this resume i mean these are differently because like you know

00:02:37.580 diametrically opposed interests chess boxing etc what's going on there so so the main thing right now

00:02:44.160 my degree and i just finished up my my military service so i'm no longer obligated to well i mean

00:02:51.160 you're always obligated in your heart but i'm but in terms of will they send me somewhere that obligation

00:02:56.420 is is completed but how this all came about is i spent a lot of my early 20s really just kind of uh

00:03:04.400 puttering around and and one day i woke up and i said this isn't going to happen and i remember

00:03:09.860 exactly when that moment was i came back from la where i had been training as a uh sponsored

00:03:15.580 amateur but that they cut me when the program moved forward and i needed a job and work and i

00:03:20.900 realized that i hadn't developed any skills in my early 20s so i went to work at t-mobile and i remember

00:03:27.000 at t-mobile there was you know it was a sales-based commission job but it really sucked and i was like

00:03:31.780 this will not work and the path i'm going on it's not sustainable so at that moment i went and i was

00:03:38.540 like okay i need to go back to school i enlisted in the military to get money to go to school and

00:03:44.280 i enlisted in the national guard so i could go to school continue to train because i had been boxing

00:03:48.900 that i had been doing that uh so i enlisted in the national guard so i could box and go to school

00:03:53.840 and still serve and get money from the military and also get some skills the job i selected when i

00:03:59.320 enlisted was the 94 alpha mos class which is land combat electrical missile systems repairer

00:04:06.280 it's a mouthful but the the tl dr is that you work on the electronic systems of the of military

00:04:13.540 weaponry i was trained to work on the bradley fighting vehicle the javelin system the i-taz

00:04:18.100 uh there's probably something else in there i can't remember but but the point is you know i wanted to

00:04:24.100 learn some kind of skill i wanted to get something under my belt that i could turn into

00:04:29.900 profit in the civilian world so so i do that i go and that a i-t which is the the second part of your

00:04:38.920 basic training there's there's basic training and you go to your advanced individual training

00:04:42.960 where you get training your job well the first the first uh six weeks of that you go through

00:04:48.360 something called bmat the basic mechanical electrical theory everyone at fort lee virginia has to do this

00:04:53.880 which is where our school was and it was in that school that i realized holy heck man i really like

00:04:59.180 electronics because my original goal was to go back for just pure math and i chose that because i was

00:05:04.240 looking for a way to go to school and avoid lab work in case i needed to miss miss a class because i had

00:05:12.660 to work because i knew i was gonna have to work i didn't have any money well i go and do bmat and i'm

00:05:17.960 like holy heck i really want to be an electrical engineer this is really cool to me because you do a lot of

00:05:23.840 electrical work so when i come back that's the first thing i'll do is i start going to the classes

00:05:28.740 for electrical engineering but then one of the classes you have to take you know is the physics

00:05:33.960 the physics component physics one and physics two and i remembered when when it hit me we were doing

00:05:40.100 an experiment for kinematic motion which is just motion independent of other forces so just you know

00:05:46.520 gravity and the initial velocity and some angle and we had to make a prediction where b would land and my

00:05:52.520 prediction was spot on and it landed exactly where i thought i was going to land and i said this is

00:05:57.500 like magic this is what i want to do so i decided at that point i was still going to go physics and

00:06:03.400 electrical engineering but i found a school that had both a dual degree program and eventually i

00:06:09.600 focused on physics and that's what i'm going to graduate with this winter as a degree in physics so

00:06:14.540 that that's kind of how that that happened yeah and so what do you plan on doing with that degree

00:06:18.740 in physics so you know it's funny about that so so one of the reasons why i switched to just physics

00:06:24.080 is because i would have to spend another year in school to get the full degree program it's a five

00:06:32.040 year program and i and i'm i'm on pace to finish my degree if it was just a four-year program in three

00:06:36.840 and a half years that's combined with taking the semester off i really really hauled ass because i 0.78

00:06:42.120 felt like i had so much time to make up for with that said what i'm going to do with my degree well

00:06:46.820 over the past year uh things have really developed in terms of my writing and my outreach and what i

00:06:53.140 what i've always dreamed of i mean i enjoy science but i really excel at communication and writing i

00:07:00.080 are at the very least i think i have a natural talent that can be honed and get me into the top

00:07:04.560 percent in the world i'll never be a top 10 percent scientist i'm not that intelligent i don't care

00:07:09.880 that much uh about writing i do believe i can be a top 10 percent communicator storyteller

00:07:16.960 and speaker so that is pretty much and teacher for that in that regard too that i learned that this

00:07:23.980 past year as well that i really enjoy the teaching tutoring aspect and really and seeing people

00:07:30.700 understand concepts and explain them so as to what i'm going to do with my physics degree the short

00:07:35.740 answer is nothing directly the long answer is whatever doors open up to me is a result of that

00:07:44.380 education and some have already i would i got several private tutoring jobs over the course of the year

00:07:50.360 when i needed to to make money and we'll get into that later why i needed to take money but i got those

00:07:57.200 because i'm a physics major and i have a a gift for explaining ideas to people it isn't uh a thing that

00:08:05.280 i'm going to go into industry with because i just i don't want to work for someone and i really don't

00:08:10.040 like the idea of being told what to do or where to be this almost cost me uh two notable times in my

00:08:17.080 basic training but once you get to your unit it's a little more laxing but yeah uh so that's where i'm

00:08:22.980 going to go with my physics degree pretty much wherever i want to but not for someone else how old were

00:08:27.940 you when you finally went back to college and how old are you now i went back to college my very first

00:08:32.680 day of college i would have been 28 yeah 28 would have been my first day and and now i'm 32 i'll be

00:08:41.100 33 in february so i'm gonna finish right on time i would have finished earlier if i hadn't taken out

00:08:47.480 some time but that's uh i i tell people that because i remember saying to my girlfriend at the

00:08:54.460 time you know who's still my girlfriend which is great and i i remember saying to her and to everyone

00:08:59.320 in general but her first i said look no matter what unless something horrible happens i'm going

00:09:06.680 to be 33 anyway the difference is while i turn 33 with the ability to earn more money and have a

00:09:14.640 better life for myself or while i turn 33 still chasing after little minimum uh not minimum wage but

00:09:22.580 slightly above minimum wage jobs with nothing but nothing to show for how intelligent i believe i am and i

00:09:27.940 have been challenging myself so i'm really happy that i decided to because a lot of people don't

00:09:33.140 and even when they do decide to go back to school it's certainly not for something as rigorous as

00:09:37.480 physics or engineering and so now the we're almost done and i can look back and go wow i finished it so

00:09:44.120 no i love that because i know a lot of guys who feel like well i i wasted my 20s it's too late for me

00:09:49.700 you know but like your proof like no it's not like you can get started anytime it is never too late i mean

00:09:56.660 oh you're talking to a guy like like when i came back from my basic i remember i got home from basic

00:10:03.480 and ait and everything i got back like uh like december 20th maybe 21st and i went out i went out

00:10:11.340 drinking and celebrating and woke up and i was just like you know what alcohol is going to inhibit me

00:10:16.880 making any progress i got too much important stuff i got a great relationship i have the military now and

00:10:22.720 then you have to deal with the uniform code of military justice as well as the legal system if

00:10:26.340 you get pulled over for dui and i have my academics that i really am taking seriously now and boxing was

00:10:32.100 picking up as well i was like you know what there's no place for it so i stopped drinking and that's a

00:10:36.840 hard shift to make for most people when i bring that up or when i talk about it but it was so important

00:10:43.200 to me because i had i was like you know what i wasted all this time i got all my i had drinking and

00:10:47.860 party out of my system that i should have did when i was 18 to 22 it's over it's out of my system now

00:10:53.700 let's let's fix things so it's never too late to have the idea that you can fix things and improve

00:10:59.260 your life so let's talk about your writing kind of where you're headed we're spending more of your

00:11:02.720 time on like what are you trying to do with your writing i mean what kind of themes are you you

00:11:06.840 exploring so initially well not only i mean initially and still the whole point of my writing is to

00:11:13.420 organize my thoughts and to see how i have learned what i have taken from my life which has been a

00:11:20.980 very unique uh story we probably won't get into it in the podcast here but but uh you know there's a

00:11:26.900 whole background of where i grew up and how i grew up and things i took from that as well as the the

00:11:32.380 i guess the early 20s phase and even now so what i try and do with my writing is i try and break down

00:11:37.640 what i have already experienced you can get something from it the my little motto that i have

00:11:43.380 for my writing i haven't put up official officially on the site is that i take what i've learned the

00:11:48.440 hard way and break it down so you can learn it the easy way that is the number one goal of every single

00:11:54.660 thing i write in a non-fiction aspect is to somehow some way make sure people can learn things without

00:12:03.220 the way without going through the things i had to go through at the very least make them think

00:12:09.180 differently about a decision or a course of action and if that inspires someone who's 16 to go a

00:12:16.500 different path or that inspires someone who's 60 to decide that they can go start and do something to

00:12:22.420 improve the life then i have succeeded in what i set out to do with the words i put you know to the

00:12:28.840 screen or the pad let's talk about your background i mean what what is it about your background

00:12:33.120 background that allowed you to learn things the hard way um well i grew up like dirt poor man like 0.64

00:12:39.840 i am straight out the projects i'm a ghetto kid there's no i mean i don't have ghetto tendencies and

00:12:45.640 if i didn't tell you that you probably wouldn't guess it but nah man i grew up in in really rough rough

00:12:51.280 rough area rough background very poor a lot of violence around me seeing those things and then learning

00:12:58.340 how to not only navigate that situation but eventually get away from it and excel without

00:13:04.620 moving out i mean people forget uh certainly my close friends sometimes forget and when i say close

00:13:10.180 friends i'm talking about people i met uh from the age of 14 after where i went to a school on the other

00:13:15.920 side of town not the schools that my neighbor would have fed me into but even then i i realized you

00:13:22.820 know my decision to go to that school that wasn't all my mom's decision i was a lot of that was like

00:13:27.440 okay i see where everyone's going and i see where that's going i don't want to be like that but here's

00:13:31.500 this opportunity to go to a different place across town with a different crowd of people from a

00:13:35.860 different background let me do that if for any other reason than i know where they're going i don't want

00:13:41.000 to go so having that experience to come up and and learn to take care of myself early i mean there

00:13:48.500 were some things in my personal life that forced me to learn to deal with myself and and manage and go

00:13:54.620 okay i'm in this thing in this world alone let me figure it out and when you have to do that when

00:14:00.080 you get baptized by fire in that regard uh you you you make some really big mistakes uh but if you if

00:14:08.620 you survive them you are so much further ahead than the average person who doesn't even know these

00:14:15.260 problems exist let alone how to settle and deal with them and you know i always joke oh it's not joking

00:14:22.800 but but i tell it in a joking fashion that i think one of the biggest problems today with the way

00:14:28.180 people interact particularly millennials is that they've never been punched in the face for being

00:14:33.380 disrespectful i don't think anyone should ever get hit over words let me make that clear but where i

00:14:38.900 grew up you never knew who didn't care about going back to jail or going to jail or who had a reputation

00:14:44.900 and protect so you just kind of led into every interaction with a minimum level of respect and

00:14:52.460 manners you know if things got real they got real but you know you can save yourself a lot of trouble

00:14:59.200 by just uttering the phrase my bad when you make a mistake and people can't even do that anymore today

00:15:04.300 or at least far fewer than what i grew up in in the environment and the time so what do you think

00:15:08.960 allowed you what was it about you that was inside of you that you were able to make that decision to

00:15:14.620 improve your situation there's a lot of people who are you know they're in the same situation as you

00:15:19.060 were and they just go with the flow and they just sort of like crabs in a bucket right they just let

00:15:23.620 the other crabs pull them back down what do you think was different with you um i know one of the

00:15:28.980 things that i'm really grateful for is that despite despite everything else in my background

00:15:34.080 that fits the trend one trend that i'm very grateful for that we did not follow is my father

00:15:41.180 was in my life um until he died he died when he was 18 he didn't live with me he lived in philadelphia

00:15:47.040 but and he made that decision despite the emotional pull i think my mom wanted him to stay

00:15:53.860 in pittsburgh and he was like for what i i know how to do there's no work um and i just want to get away

00:16:00.220 so he went and he did that and then when he was when he was away you know i go visit him and i go see

00:16:06.200 a different life and it wasn't that different i mean it's not my dad didn't have money obviously

00:16:11.160 but he he worked for things and he he focused on what was important beyond money like he saved up and

00:16:19.380 he took us to the beach it was easy to drive six hours to the beach from philadelphia and going there

00:16:26.380 i got to see wow there's a whole different world i mean because kids in the ghetto don't go to the

00:16:30.360 beach i mean they don't see that my dad took us i said to my dad i was like man you know i really

00:16:35.580 want to learn how to ski i think it might be cool so he took you know only now as i'm older am i aware

00:16:42.480 of how much the financial burden was for him even though he was working he went and paid for ski

00:16:48.880 lessons so i was you know i'm the only kid in the ghetto i know knows how to ski i used to play a game

00:16:54.220 when i got to high school and i was around a different crowd and they had ski trips i used

00:16:59.100 to play a game let's say it was called spot the black person right and it was just me having fun

00:17:02.960 under the ski lodge but but the point is that i got to see different things very early and i'm very

00:17:09.540 fortunate that that occurred that i was able to spend some time out fathering at the really see a

00:17:15.600 different way and know that there was something there was there was another possibility than what i'd seen

00:17:22.680 i think a lot of people lack that they don't get to see that there is another life that there is

00:17:27.140 another way it's one thing to read about it on the internet to see pictures of a place it's a totally

00:17:32.220 different experience to walk with sand underneath your feet and go i really like this warm weather

00:17:37.700 how can i make sure my life somehow gets me closer to it you know i love that's great so let's get into

00:17:44.440 some of the themes in your book not caring what people think about you as a superpower i love you start

00:17:49.440 off the book talking about discipline you're doing a lot with your time so i imagine you've had to learn

00:17:54.120 how to discipline yourself and it sounded like you you didn't always have that discipline and there was

00:17:58.600 that moment you realized you needed it what did you start doing what were those first steps right

00:18:04.060 like we talk about physics right an object at rest stays at rest an object in motion he goes like that

00:18:08.700 to get something moving takes a lot of energy and force like what was the thing that you did to get

00:18:13.260 yourself going in that disciplined route in life so the first thing i have to state is that always

00:18:19.940 always always and i believe this is trainable i'm i'm fortunate i guess in the i didn't have a choice

00:18:26.320 but to develop this trait but but if you can suffer like if you can endure pain man there's a place for

00:18:33.060 you in this world somewhere because if you can endure her pain that means that you'll do what it takes

00:18:40.020 if you know what you want to happen you know it some people there are a lot of people with grit but

00:18:46.100 they don't know what to do with it they're just like ah man i'll slug out these these night shifts

00:18:51.500 and these these 20 hour shifts and i'm like well you can take that grit and you can apply it somewhere

00:18:55.600 else um it depends on what you want so so i preface preface it with that once i realized that i needed

00:19:04.220 to change it was just a matter of looking around and going okay you know what do i need to do to

00:19:11.160 make x y and z happen you always need to have some type of future orientation you need to be able to

00:19:17.660 stop and look in the future and go okay i see that i would like to not okay so it was like a big deal

00:19:23.660 for me i remember this this clearly right before i went to la and you always need a hard things to

00:19:30.020 kind of wake you up or bad things to kind of wake you up right before i went to la and started training

00:19:34.680 i got invited out there it's not like i went and and struck out and went on my own i got invited and

00:19:40.700 they paid for me to fly out and everything and my living expenses out there but right before that

00:19:44.960 happened uh the lease on where we lived we that ended i didn't have any money because my

00:19:52.040 unemployment had just run out mind you i'm on unemployment at this time and also my credit rating

00:19:57.900 was sub 500 so no one would even rent to me let me tell you what it's like to know that not even if

00:20:05.480 you have the money in the bank no one's gonna put you in a place to live miserable i was so grateful

00:20:10.440 that la happened but what that did for me though when i was in la i had no bills and i was they were

00:20:15.360 paying me i think like three grand a month every single dime i got i put towards paying off any debt

00:20:21.300 paying off anything and started boosting my credit i was like you know what i'm going to delay and i

00:20:26.680 seen a lot of guys around me they didn't understand what i was doing i was like no no no i know what

00:20:30.860 it's like because of that pain of not experiencing uh the freedom to get a place to live so i'm going

00:20:37.320 to make sure in the future when this happens you know you always got to look and go i am i going

00:20:41.200 to need to get a place again let me make sure this won't happen so i tell that story to illustrate

00:20:47.120 that to have discipline to to develop discipline self-discipline you have to be able to

00:20:53.580 suffer once you realize that you got to have a thing you're suffering for i'm not going to go out

00:20:59.880 because i'm i'm that then that's a small stuff for small sacrifice it's not as big as like okay like

00:21:06.820 i'm going to join the military and go away from everything i've known and then do a basic training

00:21:11.400 so i can get money to go to school and i can have a skill set on my resume in case i want to work

00:21:16.780 all these things you need to be able to look to the future see where you want to go see what you have

00:21:23.200 to do to get there and then and that part what you have to do to get there is always going to be

00:21:27.080 uncomfortable and is always going to require self-discipline and self-control but i believe

00:21:30.740 that if you have a strong enough why you'll you'll figure out the how and to get your why you have to

00:21:35.720 be able to project into the future yeah you talk about you just kind of referenced it to a little

00:21:39.160 bit that idea of you write about in the book good pain and bad pain what's the difference between the

00:21:44.900 good pain is the pain you endure in pursuit of something that that you believe wholeheartedly

00:21:52.780 will improve your life bad pain is the pain you suffer avoiding the things that you know

00:22:00.120 will make you better right and but by by definition that means the things you're avoiding that will make

00:22:06.940 you better means you're almost certainly doing something that'll make you worse you know you can

00:22:10.280 have the pain of a hangover or you can have the pain of spending three hours in the gym per day

00:22:16.060 both are painful but the difference is spending your time in the gym is going to eventually get you a

00:22:21.980 body that you know that should make you more attractive and more appealing to people and make

00:22:27.080 you healthier or you can you know be on the bed all sore with a hangover taking years off your life 1.00

00:22:33.480 probably doing something stupid and embarrassing or probably have done something stupid and embarrassing 0.99

00:22:38.660 and root to getting that hangover so those that that little example with drinking and we we take it 1.00

00:22:45.020 to a bigger level you can be in the right now i'm just unbelievably miserable finishing this final

00:22:51.780 semester of physics because it's it's so difficult i love the material but it's so difficult but i know

00:22:57.520 that in in december i'll be able to probably say i finished this thing whether i use it or not is

00:23:03.080 kind of irrelevant at this point now because if i you know i can or there are jobs and if i don't

00:23:08.640 i know how to i've learned how to make money and and fend for myself but i'll have that i have

00:23:15.220 finished this thing i have done this and it is hanging here it's mine it was painful but i did it

00:23:20.520 there were sacrifices but i did it there were life changes that i didn't want to make but i knew i had

00:23:24.720 to make but i did it or i could have spent the past four years living uh like a full party and drinking

00:23:32.540 going out doing minimum wage work to have just enough money to pay pay rent in the shitty part of

00:23:38.500 town and not and feed myself horrible food and i'll be in pain at 33 but what did i get for it i

00:23:47.560 was avoiding doing the hard work that would have made my life better so those are the two kinds of

00:23:51.560 pain you get the pain from going after something that you want something that you desire something

00:23:56.420 that's going to make your life better or you get the pain of suffering the consequences of avoiding

00:24:00.980 that work how do you keep yourself going in pursuit of those long-term goals that you have

00:24:05.940 because a lot of these things you're you're going after take a while take years you know becoming a

00:24:09.920 professional boxer that takes years of training getting a degree that takes a certain amount of

00:24:14.020 time and it's painful right it's not fun oftentimes so how do you keep yourself going in spite of all

00:24:20.580 that i love the process you have to fall in love with the process because if you if you focus on the

00:24:25.740 outcome uh you know i think okay so you ever hear that story or what they say like you know the

00:24:32.660 slowest pot to boil is the one you're watching it's because you're watching it with the expectation

00:24:37.100 that it'll boil and that's all you can think about never for you know you forget that it takes time

00:24:40.980 to put the energy into the molecules and the water and it's got to reach a certain level of energy and

00:24:46.300 they got to start moving all this stuff right so so all you're focused on is the outcome of that

00:24:50.680 water boiling so it seems like it takes forever and you might and you'll get you should get bored

00:24:55.420 and walk away right uh you take the same approach to anything you want to achieve and accomplish in

00:25:02.440 life if you only focus on the outcome if i was only sitting here going man i can't wait until i'm

00:25:10.020 selling a million books and i'm a professional boxer and i have this physics degree i might get bored i

00:25:17.280 might start to hate the work i have to do and i think a lot of people focus only on the outcome

00:25:22.500 and so when they then when they really get in there and start going and they hit that middle

00:25:27.800 part where they're too far along to reasonably quit and they can't see the beginning but they still

00:25:32.600 can't see the end they're like what have i got myself into and then that's when people drop out

00:25:38.900 they decide that it's not worth it they lose their motivation however if you go into this knowing

00:25:44.540 they are thinking that the process uh the the the enjoyment of adding new skills or putting new

00:25:54.420 things in your mind or understanding the universe that's enjoyable or are are seeing how people

00:26:00.820 respond to little articles and how they how they write you or for a little thing that you shared

00:26:07.340 and the impact you can make and the skill you can increase on how you string words together and

00:26:14.260 express yourself that'll keep you going because then now you're getting enjoyment from the process

00:26:19.200 and since the process never ends you know you'll always be happy you won't lose motivation but the

00:26:26.320 moment you start focusing only on outcomes i know you only care about the outcome you will get

00:26:31.620 bored you will hate it or you'll start to take shortcuts and a shortcut always appears to save

00:26:38.000 you time but that interest then you know that interest is is running and you have to pay it back

00:26:42.640 somehow some way at the end yeah it's true like i've noticed in my own life whenever i focus on the

00:26:48.480 outcome like even when you achieve the outcome you wanted it's always kind of a letdown when you

00:26:52.740 actually achieve it hey it's no fun like like i'm sitting here right now as i talk to you

00:26:58.480 there's a there's a book over next to me a solid state physics book i was i was doing a little

00:27:03.300 studying before we we we started talking and and it's just really interesting to me how all of this

00:27:10.980 works i'm learning about something called the dubai frequency how you know the the science of it is

00:27:17.540 is beyond what i understand right now not to explain it casually but the point is that i want to learn how

00:27:24.780 to understand it casually so i'm not gonna get frustrated when i don't i just take that as part

00:27:29.700 of the understanding process it's like you have to not know before you do know otherwise you would

00:27:35.040 know and you would never not know right so moving from not knowing to knowing to uh novice to to expert

00:27:43.520 to inadequate to sufficient to beyond that is a process and you have to love that process otherwise

00:27:51.080 you would just quit man and i don't want to quit i don't know right and you have to love it too

00:27:56.280 because you talk about this in your book you're gonna you're gonna be mediocre at this stuff for a

00:28:00.880 long time for a long time i mean it's not even i remember to put it in perspective well i've been

00:28:07.620 boxing now for over 10 years 10 years and i did not learn how to properly like to where i would feel

00:28:13.840 comfortable going here's how you should do this uh i did not feel comfortable throwing jabs or straight

00:28:19.780 rights probably until about year eight like to where i could walk into a ring and do this and

00:28:25.660 throw this shot real time not like against the bag where it's not hitting back where there's not

00:28:30.800 stress that long you know i've seen guys there's i tell the story to people to illustrate what happens

00:28:37.040 when you care about only the outcome when i was an amateur there was a guy that came into our gym

00:28:41.980 i won't say his name and you know in case he oddly enough listens to this but i doubt he will

00:28:46.560 uh but he came into my gym and he was doing great he won like his first seven or eight fights

00:28:51.940 and won them big and then he goes to his eighth fight and he gets stopped and he decides that

00:28:59.920 boxing and by stopped i mean he gets uh he gets tko'd in a third round and he decides that boxing is

00:29:07.600 not for him and i'm like what you just lost one time it wasn't even like it was your first law

00:29:12.300 your first fight i mean you had eight fights why would you think that but for him it was about

00:29:17.260 the outcome he was talking to me the whole time about how he had invited these girls to come see

00:29:22.020 him fight and he was worried about how the girls meeting each other and i was like man i i didn't

00:29:28.000 really understand that at the time or get it or care really um but later on i thought back to that

00:29:33.740 and i was like wow that guy was just in it for the accolades and recognition a minute they took

00:29:38.720 that away from uh the outcome he was like okay well this sucks i'm gonna leave i'm gonna get out 0.69

00:29:45.440 of here and that's miserable you have an article about how what it's like losing a boxing match

00:29:49.420 on national tv uh no less what was that experience like for you in the moment what was it like you

00:29:55.740 know the days afterwards right like when you're able to process it so so in the moment right you know

00:30:01.780 it's funny i i just i 10 10 months right took 10 months for me to finally watch myself get knocked

00:30:07.480 out it also took months for me to finally say i got knocked out you know it's a really weird feeling

00:30:11.760 you have with that but it but it really humbles your ego and you really learn to you learn it's

00:30:19.000 not the end of the world i mean and you know that intellectually but now i know it viscerally

00:30:22.780 i understand that people lose i will maybe lose again when i start fighting again at the end of this

00:30:29.020 year but how i dealt with it in the moment i just my first thought to be totally honest with you my

00:30:36.160 first thought was holy heck we just paid for this trip to paris how am i gonna pay now because

00:30:42.640 they're gonna take my contract that was my first thought um oh we already paid for the trip but i

00:30:48.260 was like how am i gonna enjoy myself in paris they just paid for me they just they're gonna cut my

00:30:51.980 contract i know it uh but then then i was like and you learn man you get tough skin man social media is

00:30:59.460 rough man people do not care because i had crossed over once they seen you on television i was no

00:31:06.440 longer a human being that they were interacting with i was i was like a you know and this isn't

00:31:12.520 obviously this isn't apply to everyone i interact with on the the social media scene uh but a lot of

00:31:19.060 people they they kind of see you as this thing that is is not real like a like a television show

00:31:25.040 and they talk to you like you don't have feelings and when you were in the moment right after the

00:31:30.740 fight man that stuff but i woke up one night and some guy wrote on my wall man you got knocked the

00:31:35.440 f out homie i was like man like why would you write that i just deleted and banned him but but now i

00:31:40.620 don't care now i look at it and go wow you know that's a learning experience and you know if you've

00:31:46.080 ever been in a fight at that level i mean most people aren't making five figures when they lose they 0.62

00:31:50.880 lose fights and look like jackasses and so i had to i remind myself of these little things about how

00:31:56.800 far i got but then i got fired up afterwards a few months later i was like all right i'm gonna come

00:32:01.500 back and i'm definitely going to do well and i could look and see what i learned but for the most part

00:32:08.140 because you know this is a strength and a weakness of mine i'm i'm so detached emotionally from from many

00:32:15.780 things and this fight included i didn't feel a certain kind of pain but i did know that i was

00:32:24.700 in for thrashing on social media and i think i i feared that but but also and i wrote in the article

00:32:33.340 about the fight that when you when you when you fall down you know you're on your way up and you fall

00:32:40.980 down uh the people you pass um metaphorically when you pass on the way back down they're you know

00:32:48.420 how you treated them on the way up is how they're going to treat you times 10 on the way down and i

00:32:52.800 and it was at that point that i realized that i was a cool guy and i was really and again that's

00:32:57.220 always my stick i rather learn and connect with people i'm never interested in boasting or bragging

00:33:01.460 uh beyond self-promotional things and even then i don't do that too well

00:33:06.480 so after the fight i just kind of was angry i just wanted to sleep and i was sad but the next day

00:33:16.340 you know i write about this the next day i look at the news and at this point in time uh some guy

00:33:21.880 walked into a mall in washington and shot up some people there was a cover on the aleppo syria thing

00:33:28.100 there were the protests in charlotte because i think somebody in charlotte carolina because i think

00:33:33.300 uh there was some kind of police shooting and i was just like man there's like real problems the

00:33:37.480 worst thing that happened to me man i just got i lost the fight and got paid at that uh so i'm like

00:33:42.480 whatever uh well not whatever but it really put things in perspective for me the next day so i it didn't

00:33:49.440 bother me too long i was just like i gotta get back to real life and deal with things and but but now

00:33:54.340 you know it's weird after all this time now i have kind of a competitive drive and burn i really can't

00:33:59.100 wait to get back in there after this degree is is behind me the process if i was focused on the

00:34:04.000 outcome that would be it you know someone asked me the other day are you gonna retire from boxing i'm

00:34:08.760 like why would i do that i'm only 32 you know the i think five of the top 10 maybe a little more all

00:34:15.020 of them are over 33 and i'm like man i got great i have a great upside i've only lost one fight and

00:34:21.700 more importantly i lost it in a really boxing's a strange business losing that fight that way with my

00:34:28.940 record may have financially definitely financially was one of the best things that could have happened

00:34:34.160 to me but also in terms of uh marketability well it was it's so easy to get fights now because people

00:34:42.480 think they can beat me which is great but there's not a lot of tape i mean i think the fight led the

00:34:46.700 fight didn't last me on one round and i believe the official stoppage was sometime around the two

00:34:51.360 minute mark so there's nothing out there so we have a chance to do a really great thing when we come

00:34:55.600 back and i will be completely cleared of my schedule i won't have the degree i was you know

00:35:01.180 drug juggling and juggling i won't have military service i was juggling i can really focus and see

00:35:07.060 see how good i can really become failure has its challenges success also comes with its own challenges

00:35:13.420 people don't think about that but it does like you you get complacent you get lazy how do you keep

00:35:19.180 your edge even when you've experienced success like you're saying you're on your way up with your

00:35:23.380 box until you got to this match how did you keep your edge during that time and how have you kept

00:35:26.880 your edge when you've experienced the other successes in the other parts of your life oh man

00:35:30.360 but because i i know i know from hardcore experience intellectually all that like i understand that

00:35:39.500 there's one is always someone better i mean everything is a competition and you cannot forget

00:35:44.520 that in the moment you forget it's a competition you will lose the competition and you'll wonder what

00:35:48.700 happened and i'm like well you were competing you stopped competing but part of what keeps a person

00:35:54.920 competitive is you have to remember uh it never ends it it's never going to end it's always going

00:36:01.240 to be stressful you'll always be tested there's always going to be something to draw out a better

00:36:07.980 part of you and as long as you remember that you're never going to feel satisfied with what you

00:36:13.660 accomplish i mean i i think the most elation i've ever felt uh right so so to put it in perspective

00:36:20.460 you you guys contacted me uh to to join this wonderful podcast and i was like man that's great

00:36:26.880 they recognize my wedding and my first thought like after like you know i think i think i went ahead

00:36:32.300 an ice cream cone and at my first thought while i was eating ice cream cone i was like man uh but i've

00:36:40.340 really got to finish this other project and and i really got to finish the this degree thing and

00:36:46.020 this twitter project i'm going to come out with this is great so so my i never get caught up i know

00:36:52.560 there's a twitter project i'm working on but but i never get caught up in what i've accomplished because

00:36:57.680 i know that it's all transient it's all gonna stop and and you don't uh one you can't keep paying

00:37:03.980 yourself on past things i mean unless you have something really great but even then i mean the

00:37:07.640 attrition of life is very real uh or the inflation of life i should say that that if you're doing the

00:37:14.580 same thing in a year that you're doing today i mean you've wasted a lot of time and you apply that

00:37:19.960 over an even larger time scale if i was behaving the same way now that i was behaving at 22 oh goodness

00:37:26.940 i would be embarrassed you wouldn't be talking to me are you whatever i would just be chilling around 0.98

00:37:31.400 probably somewhere in a bar at happy hour being a fool but that's how you stay focused and that's 0.98

00:37:37.760 how you keep going is that you remember that it never is going to end and what you've done 0.96

00:37:42.640 loses value almost immediately and you have to just keep chasing new ways to be cool and new ways to be

00:37:50.080 interesting the new ways to prove to yourself that you did it that it wasn't luck i mean i think that's

00:37:55.760 what really drives me is that i'm really concerned that anything i've done is luck so i have to repeat

00:38:01.700 it i have to come that's how i battle my own imposter syndrome is i have to i have to prove to myself that

00:38:09.140 i did not just stumble upon whatever i've stumbled upon it wasn't just a good idea at a good time that

00:38:16.320 i can do it over and over and over again and live by the the merit of my own mind and accomplishments

00:38:22.500 yeah what you were saying reminded me of a phrase i've heard you know success isn't owned it's

00:38:27.240 borrowed and the rent is due every day every single day i mean i i'm i'm so busy i haven't had a chance

00:38:35.360 to write anything new for my blog and i can just see every day the traffic is on a downward slope it

00:38:42.500 has a negative slope you know so the wallet has sustained itself it's big enough now just big enough

00:38:51.100 not huge but just big enough to where like people can find it through search engines looking up very

00:38:56.860 important terms at least important to me i know that i need to get out there and do something new

00:39:04.060 uh i need to get out there and put out some new work and that's going to be you know that i'll just

00:39:08.680 stay up one night all night after i put mechanics or electromagnetism in my mind well so you also have

00:39:14.700 a section in your book dedicated to self-control and i'm curious you know your first part of your book

00:39:19.000 was a lot about self-discipline and you had a section on self-control do you see the two

00:39:23.000 as different and if so how very much so very different self-discipline is about what you do

00:39:29.280 self-control is about what you don't do right so you self-discipline yourself you go to the gym every

00:39:37.020 day this very good example actually now i'm thinking about it in my head before i say it right

00:39:41.460 self-discipline is going to the gym every day no matter how you feel and doing some kind of work or

00:39:47.680 sticking to the routine that you've created that is self-discipline that gets you to move that makes

00:39:52.600 you do a thing when you were not doing a thing before self-control is not eating ice cream every

00:39:58.960 day self-control is not ordering a you know a shot after you've already had too many self-control is

00:40:08.160 about keeping you from from succumbing to your worst tendencies the tendencies of a human being

00:40:16.280 that if left to their own devices will destroy and consume that person and prevent them from even

00:40:22.700 being in a position to exercise their self-discipline you know self-control is is not having another

00:40:31.620 drink and getting behind the wheel of a car because that'll ruin your life if you get pulled over and

00:40:37.020 it doesn't matter how much self-discipline you have or at the very least the the benefits you can derive

00:40:42.440 from that self-discipline now are significantly limited because your opportunities are going to

00:40:47.200 be limited and that's just assuming you don't go to jail right so so self-discipline is about what

00:40:52.700 making yourself do new things self-control is keeping yourself from doing things that

00:41:00.320 probably will undo you i mean if that is that is the big difference to me and i think i think it is

00:41:09.000 it's significant it's important to separate the two you know we talk about training people i used

00:41:14.960 to give training advice i don't do any more really unless a person really has but but i think one of

00:41:20.680 the most important things one of the most important sayings they have in the fitness world is that you

00:41:26.100 can't out train a bad diet right there you can go and do all you can run miles man but but if you are

00:41:34.000 going out and drinking every night and because you can't control yourself to to to be busy on a thing

00:41:42.160 that will make you better or to avoid your you know because we all want to have fun and we're people we

00:41:47.040 we we we avoid pain and seek pleasure but if you can't control yourself to do that then you're going

00:41:54.840 to only seek pleasure and the pain like we were talking about earlier the pain is how you do

00:42:00.200 things the chasing the pain of achievement so you a lot of your audience is is male i'm curious in

00:42:06.720 your experience with working with your audience interacting with them where have you seen a lot

00:42:11.060 of men fail when it comes to self-control a lot of guys that the biggest most cons or the most

00:42:17.820 consistent downfall guys really um needed one female attention and they will settle on whatever

00:42:27.880 attention they get as opposed to having a standard for themselves you know because the self-discipline

00:42:33.820 part is getting yourself to the gym make sure you learn the skills so you can make some money

00:42:37.420 you know you're dressing well ironing your clothes for you guys like those are just things you do right

00:42:42.840 the self-control part goodness gracious i mean the the they don't think about the the quality of the

00:42:50.940 what she brings to the table to make that to make the interaction worthwhile to be part of i mean

00:42:58.860 sex is abundant half of the population is one is female so that gives you a little leeway 1.00

00:43:06.820 to to be selective and to decide what is most important for you and to not just and to not just

00:43:15.260 fall over and fall in love with the first woman who gives you a little more attention and a little 0.96

00:43:21.740 more love and feeling than the other one you know and and i wish i talk about this all the time not all

00:43:29.140 the time but enough i i say that i say that you know a big problem is you can't trust a guy who who is

00:43:38.080 not capable of dealing with women well because he will sell you out the moment he's got a chance 1.00

00:43:45.240 to if the woman will give him something he wants and sales understand this i mean look at every ad

00:43:50.640 for cigarettes and or well not so much anymore but look at every ad for alcohol they understand you

00:43:56.380 can't even you're not even legally allowed to drink but how do they circumvent that and hijack your brain

00:44:01.260 they put they put beautiful women on board right because they know that if there's a woman involved 1.00

00:44:06.760 you'll do something i'll never forget when when this when when this game really hit me i was walking

00:44:11.800 to the mall and there were a group of women they were selling this soap this black soap this is 1.00

00:44:18.200 important the soap was black mind you this black soap and they were like come here and check out this

00:44:22.860 demonstration of how this soap cleans your hands and they washed my hands and the soap would rinse off

00:44:29.240 and they were like look at all that dirt in the tub and the soap was 75 dollars and i'm sitting here

00:44:33.200 thinking like this some 75 dollars soap and all it did was disintegrate and come off into the bin i mean

00:44:40.960 you you can't see that but but why is it selling why are they able to make a living that way because

00:44:46.340 man these are these were beautiful uh sephatic jewish women and they they were just i mean they look 1.00

00:44:52.880 like princess jasmine and it was incredible that there were three of them so any guy that came up i mean

00:44:59.360 if he was any kind of slob or whatever he would spend money and and logically you shouldn't think

00:45:06.360 about it doesn't make sense but that's that's how we fall into it no self-control that's that human 0.62

00:45:11.360 tendency a pretty girl touched your hand and now you're like wow that never happens to me let me

00:45:17.140 spend money on this 75 so it just washes down the drain all right so so like the sex part looking for the

00:45:25.020 the short term it's physical satisfaction with women that's to the hinderman of their long-term 0.99

00:45:29.820 happiness and and fulfillment absolutely and and somebody's getting paid off of it because they

00:45:35.440 they know they know that most of us don't have self-control that they see women they go oh man

00:45:40.940 these girls are gonna like me i better spend this money now let's talk about this let's go with your 1.00

00:45:45.240 kind of this is a nice segue to our our next part of the of your book about relationships and let's

00:45:50.100 talk about the title of your book not caring about what people think about you is a superpower there's

00:45:55.700 a section in your book about this why is not caring about what people think about you a superpower

00:46:00.260 because you have to remember something very few of us are fortunate enough to be born into

00:46:06.620 a a very supportive environment and i don't think that lack of support comes from

00:46:12.840 people who actively want to keep us down i'm not i don't think it is an active

00:46:18.580 intentional crab in a bucket mindset what i do think because i think change terrifies people

00:46:25.300 because if you change and you get what you want what is the excuse that the other person has for

00:46:33.200 not doing that you've eliminated especially if you have a similar uh handicap or impediment

00:46:40.640 so if you want to get what you want you know you're gonna have to act opposite of the people around you

00:46:51.380 opposite of the wishes of your parents opposite of what you've known your entire life and that societal

00:46:59.320 pressure is way more powerful than people give it credit for give it credit give credit to you're gonna have

00:47:07.360 to at some point go wow it is not going to like you just gotta look at it and go to it doesn't matter

00:47:14.260 do i care what you think do i care what collectively a bunch of people think because it's not just one

00:47:18.820 person one person by himself that isn't a mob it's a bunch of people who go crazy that turns into a mob

00:47:24.900 likewise one person who disagrees with you that's you know you everyone can deal with that we call those

00:47:32.080 people friends a lot of times when a whole group is adamantly opposed to the way you see the world the

00:47:41.060 way you think a goal you have or they tell you it's impossible you have to not you you have to not

00:47:48.040 care what they think because the moment you care then then your emotions get involved and your emotions

00:47:52.520 are powerful they're gonna make you go oh man this is this is really like this is really painful you

00:47:57.680 probably shouldn't do this you know you can't you can't care i mean i think one of the things that

00:48:02.400 i think that i'm most grateful for in the weirdest way is i don't have a great relationship with my

00:48:08.140 mother so i never am swayed by my mom trying to emotionally get me to think a certain way because

00:48:15.960 i don't care i don't think that's a the best way to that mindset but i recognize that mindset prevents

00:48:25.600 me from ever making a decision based on what my family wants you know i i grew up and and our

00:48:33.260 parents come from a generation where this country was was way more segregated than than it is to

00:48:40.580 i don't even think it is today i mean there were literal laws on the books

00:48:43.920 when my mother was a child so she couldn't understand why i would ever have white friends

00:48:50.440 or a white girlfriend fortunately for me i didn't care what she thought and those people are the 0.96

00:48:56.740 best friends of my life but if i had cared maybe i would have altered some decisions and some of the

00:49:03.080 good friendships that i made so so when i say you don't care what people think you have to not care

00:49:11.280 what people think when you start to change and when you start to go beyond now now granted i mean

00:49:15.880 for all the any any pedantic people listening i'm not talking about if someone says man you're

00:49:21.660 probably drinking too much or man you should probably stop smoking crack like you you should

00:49:26.440 care about that stuff because we're talking about your well-being but but when we talk about actions

00:49:32.160 where there's no harm you're not breaking the law and it's really just a different way to think

00:49:37.060 and see the world you cannot care because you to make any action you have to change how you think

00:49:42.520 to begin with that's where it starts but so it sounds like you don't care what all people don't

00:49:48.020 think about there's like like it's certain people right there you probably reach a moment where you

00:49:52.220 find a new group of community new friends where they're on this they have the same standards you

00:49:56.780 they're going in the same direction you and like yeah you care about what they think about you because

00:50:00.420 they're they're holding you accountable absolutely and that's one of the you know someone said to me a

00:50:04.560 very very long time ago i don't i don't talk to the person anymore but this always stuck in my mind

00:50:10.040 she said and this is this was for a romantic relationship but i think it applies to all kinds

00:50:14.740 of relationships she said that for two people to work they have to be going in the same direction

00:50:19.280 at about the same time at about the same speed and if and if any of those factors are not similar

00:50:25.640 someone has to be willing to slow down change direction or wait right and that really stuck with

00:50:34.160 me because when you when you do change you when you decide you want to be something different you

00:50:40.280 have to remember that a lot of people are going to remember and will feel comfortable with the old 0.97

00:50:44.900 you and the new you is going to piss them off and it's not going to piss them off because they don't 0.95

00:50:49.780 want you to succeed they just don't know how to deal with the change you're literally a new human

00:50:54.280 being with new values and and and a new standard that you hold yourself to well think about it if

00:51:01.000 you've been hanging around with people and you had one standard for your life and now you have a

00:51:05.160 higher one you're going to ruffle feathers at the very least there are going to be some people who

00:51:09.740 feel like you feel like that you're better than them that you don't deserve to do this they'll they'll

00:51:15.920 take subtle jabs or maybe overt jabs at you but you still have to persevere and the only way to

00:51:24.160 persevere is to reach a point where you go okay you know i don't i don't care what you think

00:51:27.620 you know sometimes you say directly sometimes it's implied about not responding but either way

00:51:33.740 the idea remains your opinion holds no sway and furthermore your opinion is is uh is going to block

00:51:41.700 what i'm trying to do so we we can't vibe at that level anymore and it's not like you lose love for

00:51:50.680 these people or anything like that it's just that you understand that emotionally they're not ready to 0.98

00:51:55.400 deal with a a change now once again you know if you're doing something stupid listen to your friends 0.96

00:52:02.360 but if you're just changing how you think and going after something different you gotta good you gotta 0.94

00:52:06.240 do it you you have to change you have to to make make adjustments in your own life and get around

00:52:13.100 people who do think and have that standard because they'll push you up pop peer pressure can can elevate

00:52:17.920 you or it can hold you down it's just whichever kind of pressure you want well ed this has been a

00:52:22.400 great conversation there's a lot more we could talk about but where can people go to learn more

00:52:26.200 about your work my website www.edlattimore.com all my writing is there and links to other things that

00:52:33.840 are related to and affiliated with me my twitter account which is where i'm highly active i love

00:52:39.240 twitter i think it it rewards it rewards a verbal acumen so my twitter account is the same

00:52:47.680 ed latimore at ed latimore dot you know not dot com just add ed latimore i'm on my facebook page

00:52:54.280 my facebook fan page at latimore boxer but but i'm mostly active on my website and my twitter so

00:52:59.300 that's the best place you can find me at latimore.com and at ed latimore awesome well ed latimore

00:53:03.600 thank you much for your time it's been a pleasure all right thank you very much my guest name is ed

00:53:07.480 latimore he's the author of the book not caring what other people think is a superpower you can find

00:53:11.560 that on amazon.com also check out his website ed latimore.com where you find more of his writing also

00:53:16.500 connect with him on twitter at ed latimore also check out our show notes at aom.is slash latimore

00:53:21.640 where you find links to resources where you delve deeper into this topic

00:53:24.520 well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice

00:53:39.540 make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com if you enjoy the podcast i've

00:53:43.900 got something out of it i appreciate if you take one minute to give us a review on itunes or stitcher

00:53:47.400 helps out a lot also share the podcast with four or five of your friends that helps out a lot as well

00:53:52.220 thank you so much for your continued support and until next time this is brett mckay telling you to stay

00:53:55.820 you

00:54:00.760 you

00:54:01.260 you

00:54:04.180 you

00:54:07.320 you

The Art of Manliness - October 06, 2017

#345： Not Caring What Other People Think Is a Superpower

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