The Art of Manliness - #362： The Art of Mingling

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast it's the holiday

00:00:19.020 season and that means you'll likely be attending a lot of parties which means you'll be doing lots

00:00:23.200 of mingling but if you're like many people the thought of mingling with complete strangers

00:00:26.440 either fills you with dread or just seems like a chore well my guest today on the show i spend a

00:00:30.640 career teaching people how to mingle and even have fun while doing so her name is jean martinet and

00:00:35.140 she's the author of the book the art of mingling today on the show jean shares tactics you can use

00:00:39.520 to overcome your fear of mingling and then walks us through step by step on how to talk with complete

00:00:43.660 strangers at a social event she starts with how to seamlessly join a conversation without it being

00:00:47.940 awkward how to keep the conversation going once it starts and how to exit a conversation without

00:00:52.280 you know seeming like a jerk or awkward jean then suggests actions you can take if you get snubbed

00:00:56.940 or if you end up putting your foot in your mouth a small talk is something you struggle with and

00:01:00.500 attending a party with people you don't know fills you with fear this show has a lot of practical

00:01:04.180 advice you can put into action today after it's over check out the show notes at aom.is slash mingle

00:01:09.680 all right jean martinet welcome to the show thank you hi so you've made a career for yourself

00:01:19.120 writing about social skills socializing mingling faux pas how to handle that i'm curious how did

00:01:26.180 that happen well actually it was quite accidental i years ago many years ago i was invited to a

00:01:33.760 wedding with my with college friends it was my first college friend who'd gotten married and we

00:01:38.120 all it was like a big reunion and at the end of the reception we were all hanging out someone's room

00:01:43.620 and everyone started started saying to me jean how in the world i realized that i had i had met

00:01:49.720 the whole town of it was in dayton ohio and had met everyone at the whole wedding and everyone else

00:01:54.640 had said you know we just talked to each other how did you do that like and why did you do that

00:01:58.700 and i suddenly realized that this was something that i love to do that people we either didn't want

00:02:04.060 to do or were scared to do and so one of my friends larry said you should write a book about this and

00:02:09.020 i wrote down all my techniques on a cocktail napkin and that is how the art of mingling was born so i'm

00:02:14.860 curious were you naturally you know like that like you you naturally mingled it came natural to you so

00:02:20.240 you had to like you know be very you know you had to think like what exactly do i do well yeah exactly

00:02:25.640 i had to it it was the thing was is that it hadn't always come naturally to me i think that

00:02:30.840 when i was like when i was 13 or so i i kind of was i really loved wanted to be

00:02:38.920 popular but kind of was a little bit insecure so i i sort of trained myself i read this series of

00:02:44.820 books that were written about debutantes in the 1930s or something and in the books there were all

00:02:51.680 these lines and i mean i think i probably did have a natural inclination to talk to strangers but

00:02:56.340 i did sort of consciously figure out how to do it from an early age and then i forgot about it until

00:03:03.640 this particular day in ohio and then i realized i really do have a system you'd have a

00:03:08.820 system all right so uh your first book the art of mingling this was published back in the 90s right

00:03:13.760 yes it was published uh my first book and i was published in 1992 and it was um successful so

00:03:21.840 successful that i have done two major updates of it okay the most recent being in just 2015

00:03:28.660 right because a lot has changed in the the world of mingling since 1992 yeah i mean people the the

00:03:36.260 actual techniques and the how you mingle hasn't changed but the the world in which we mingle has

00:03:41.800 changed certainly right and uh with all the technology and everything we'll get into that so

00:03:46.400 let's get into specifics yeah first off like how do you define what is mingling i define mingling as

00:03:51.500 well literally mingling means mixing and basically what i mean by mingling is interacting with

00:03:56.780 a lot of people i mean not a lot of people as in more than two uh at an event or a party um often it's a

00:04:03.960 room where you don't know anyone or an event but it doesn't have to be it just means that you are

00:04:08.080 you are it's more like a tasting menu rather than one dish and it's not to say that at any time you

00:04:13.620 can't switch into deep conversation mode but the idea is that it's a place to it's where you meet new

00:04:20.240 people and and you know you sort of um you're engaging in a different way because you're exposing

00:04:26.980 yourself to new things and like what do you think the average time frame for like to be it for it to be

00:04:31.380 considered mingling as opposed to like i'm now engaged in deep conversation right you know it's

00:04:37.300 it's basically it's between like five and i would say five and 15 minutes um depending upon what kind

00:04:46.140 of party it is and so on because i mean obviously if you meet the love of your life or your next boss

00:04:52.540 you can certainly step aside out of the mingling fray and you know have a one-on-one but it in order to

00:04:59.640 really get the most out of a party you should really not talk to you should you go come back

00:05:04.500 but like i say after 10 or 15 minutes you need to leave that person go on to somebody else okay and

00:05:09.120 we'll talk here in a little bit like how you do that because i think that yeah really throws a lot

00:05:12.340 of people off but i mean one of the things that people or some people would say about mingling is

00:05:17.640 that it's you know superficial and shallow and that oh you know you should just get you should just be

00:05:22.620 real and get real to the hard stuff what would you say to these folks as to why you need they need to

00:05:26.980 put that prejudice aside and really embrace mingling right well a lot of people ask me this

00:05:32.620 question and i really think that behind this question is um is fear but we can that's another

00:05:38.760 whole conversation but what i say to them is there's two things two main things i would answer this

00:05:44.680 it one of them is if you i've had 10 minute conversations with strangers that have changed

00:05:49.420 my whole perspective on a subject or at least enhanced my day and you know you never know who you're

00:05:55.400 going to meet that's the other thing it's like it's like travel or being an explorer you know you

00:06:01.220 you just it's the unknown field and so instead of thinking of it as superficial conversation um you

00:06:07.380 just have to you think of it more as unknown travel like social travel and you never know when someone

00:06:13.140 you meet you you you you either have a such a good laugh that you know that enhances your day

00:06:20.140 or you you get a new a new um perspective on something that you wouldn't have otherwise if you

00:06:26.040 hadn't talked to this stranger and sometimes those strangers become acquaintances and then become

00:06:30.460 friends so you know it's definitely worth doing you can't think of it as just that 10 minutes it's what

00:06:37.740 how it creeps into the rest of your life right well let's talk about the fear so you say that that

00:06:42.220 excuse is often given as because they're afraid why why are people afraid of mingling what are the

00:06:47.460 biggest ones you think well you know that's the one of the things i discovered when i first started

00:06:52.560 writing that when i wrote the book and then whitewater was about to come out um is that 90

00:06:56.820 percent of america has mingle what i call mingle phobia and i didn't even realize that when i when i

00:07:04.160 first when i first wrote the book you know i thought it was going to be this tiny little thing that the

00:07:08.520 publisher paid me no money and you know a little bit of money and it was just this kind of like little

00:07:12.640 blip in my life and the first thing that happened was i got on the today show with katie kurik

00:07:16.580 and that is when i and then i got on everything and that is when i realized that i had tapped into

00:07:22.220 this very primal fear that i don't have so um and what what i discovered is that what most people are

00:07:28.940 afraid of is being rejected not knowing what to say which is the same really um and also there's

00:07:35.300 another fear which is about um not knowing how to get out of a conversation but that's secondary the

00:07:42.360 but there are a lot of people won't go to a party because they're afraid of getting stuck

00:07:45.520 but mostly it's about being judged not having the terror of being in a conversation and uh and having

00:07:53.500 silence is absolutely um a huge thing in most people's mind do you think the fear is applicable

00:08:00.820 to just people you don't know or like do you have do people have that fear even with people they do

00:08:05.060 know i think mostly it's with people they don't know because that's what that's why i hear a lot of

00:08:09.880 people say well i'm not going to nobody anybody at that party so i'm not going that's certainly the

00:08:14.100 bigger fear i think people still have social fears when it comes to going to parties and maybe they'll

00:08:20.260 say the wrong thing but mostly i think it's about the people's fear is about mingling trying to talk

00:08:25.320 to people that they don't know because it's a you know it's a totally unknown thing right yeah so um

00:08:29.940 right now it's the holidays there's gonna be a lot of parties but there's people who are

00:08:33.000 they've got them on their calendar right now and some people out there they're like

00:08:37.220 deathly afraid like oh my gosh like i'm not gonna know anybody at this thing

00:08:41.040 like what are some like mind mindset shifts people can make or tactics they can use to kind of

00:08:46.700 get over that initial fear so they can you know start interacting with people and start mingling

00:08:51.580 right i outline various techniques in the book they they're i call them survival techniques and they

00:08:57.840 really are just to get your mindset changed there's um something that i offer up called the buddy system

00:09:04.560 which is where you pretend now these might sound silly but remember they're just for your own trick

00:09:09.900 of your brain no one has to know you're doing this one of them's called the buddy system and that is

00:09:14.840 where you enter into the room you feel yourself freezing up and you just pretend that your best

00:09:19.380 friend or your wife or your mother or somebody who loves you maybe not your mother i don't know

00:09:24.400 is standing right behind you right over your right shoulder going with you into the room and you know

00:09:30.260 like you just have to envision that they're there with you and so if somebody doesn't say the right

00:09:34.440 thing to you whatever you can just picture them saying oh well that guy's a jerk or whatever and

00:09:39.040 then there's also another one that is helpful to do which is called the invisible man and that is

00:09:45.700 where you know the thing is this is based on this truth that most people know intellectually which is

00:09:50.980 that people really aren't looking at you they're only concerned about themselves and so the

00:09:55.720 invisible man is based on that and basically you pretend that no one can see you when you first

00:10:00.060 enter the party and that make sort of lessens your self-consciousness until you're ready to become

00:10:05.760 visible which should do fairly quickly and actually talk to someone you know there's also just a faking

00:10:12.740 it till you make it kind of thing which i also talk about in the art of mingling yeah that one um

00:10:18.440 i've used that one like i imagine like if i go to like what would carrie grant do right yeah and right

00:10:24.040 and and the thing is carrie grant like he even said like i think there's a quote he's like the

00:10:28.200 greatest performance i ever did was being carrie grant like i don't think carrie grant was naturally

00:10:33.060 charismatic but he had this idea that he wanted to be and he put it on and it it worked right i mean

00:10:38.680 that's the thing to remember is that people don't cannot see your fear and with you the idea of fake

00:10:43.960 it till you make it is that if you walk into a party and you smile and you pretend to be confident

00:10:48.600 um this is why when your mother told you just be yourself that's wrong advice when you walk into

00:10:55.000 a room and you are smiling people will respond with smiling because people respond with positive

00:11:01.000 behavior with positive behavior and then once they do that you actually will smile so it's a way to

00:11:06.060 trick yourself into it i mean pretty soon it'll be real so you don't have to fake it till the very

00:11:10.240 except for in the very beginning all right let's say you've you've done these sort of tricks to get

00:11:15.000 you get over that fear the hard part is like how do you figure out you're in the party you don't know

00:11:20.540 anyone how do you know like which person or group is receptive to you mingling with them because i

00:11:27.880 think that's the thing that just you end up just having your hands in your pocket or holding the

00:11:31.380 right a drink and an odor of palais what do you do the first thing you do is you which most people

00:11:37.840 know but you might forget the first thing to do especially if it's a big party is you've after you've put

00:11:42.540 your coat down or whatever is to find your host or hostess and say hello now you're because that's

00:11:48.060 the person you know right so if your host your hostess is standing with someone they will of

00:11:53.440 course introduce you so now you already know this person or those people okay that's number one then

00:11:58.100 now then if you still they wander away and you're all alone you look around the room and you you can

00:12:03.800 you look when you want to approach a group check out body language you don't want to approach a group

00:12:08.620 if you're nervous that is like standing with their arms around each other very tightly arranged you

00:12:13.660 want to go up to someone one or two people or three who are sort of looking around and have more of an

00:12:18.860 open feeling to their their uh you know their bodies um i call this technique is called practice

00:12:27.180 your mingle on a wallflower you can even find somebody who's alone who looks like they're lost too

00:12:32.680 and go up and talk to them you can you can also use the food and the bar if you it's never a good

00:12:40.380 idea to when i say use the bar i don't mean like have 17 drinks before you talk to someone but you

00:12:45.900 can the food in the bar people are gathered there to for a purpose which is to get a drink or get food

00:12:51.660 and you can talk to them about you know oh it's crowded here or have you tried the salmon or you know you

00:12:57.000 can use those things as kind of props to talk about you know have you tasted this things like

00:13:02.400 that you know then there's there's a whole section in the book on opening techniques and opening lines

00:13:08.320 as well yeah we'll get into that here in a bit one of the the tactics i i like because i've done it

00:13:13.240 myself and it's very effective is like find a way to help the host or hostess like serve food yeah

00:13:18.740 because that's it's easy yeah that is a great thing to do there's with the proviso that i mean it's

00:13:25.440 great because you've got food in your hand and you can meet everyone at the party because they're

00:13:28.340 all going to come up to you to get food and you say hello however you don't have hands free to

00:13:33.400 shake and you pretty much have to keep moving around with the food so you don't it's even a

00:13:38.280 quicker mingle than ordinarily like in other words you can't really get into a conversation while you're

00:13:42.040 standing there with food so there are some it's not i would i would recommend more that you actually

00:13:47.820 mingle by the food that you mingle with the food i mean i think you know you pass some food around

00:13:52.500 and then put it down and then go mingle that would be fine but like it does kind of limit you

00:13:56.940 because you can't actually drink have a drink in your hand while you're passing the food you know

00:14:01.500 so you it sort of does put you in another you know now you're a helper and yes you get to go around

00:14:06.420 and talk to people but you're very limited because you're you're just offering food right you know

00:14:10.520 what i'm saying yeah i got you so uh opening lines right that's like the first impression everyone

00:14:15.600 knows oh the first impression is the most important thing and they put a lot of this pressure on

00:14:19.000 they got to say just the right thing and then they're so self-conscious that they say something

00:14:23.000 stupid but like what are your typical go-tos for opening lines to start them yeah my i identified um

00:14:29.560 after years of research i identified four basic opening maneuvers and that's in you know i also have

00:14:36.700 a lot of opening lines in the book that are just they don't have to maneuver you just use the opening

00:14:40.460 line but the the best one of my favorite opening approaches is called the honest approach if you're at a

00:14:47.240 party where you do not know anybody it's quite effective to just go up to a group of people

00:14:53.180 stick out your hand and say hi i'm gene and i don't know a single soul at this party

00:14:58.640 and it's a little bit scary at first but when you use it really works well because unless unless

00:15:04.760 they're total idiots or jerks um uh they will actually be nice to you and say oh well this is so

00:15:13.320 and so and they'll introduce you and they'll ask you how you came about coming to the party etc and

00:15:17.460 you're then you're on your way it it's sort of like you're giving over your power to these people

00:15:22.380 and and it's and to make yourself vulnerable people will usually be kind and and also it's kind of

00:15:27.860 refreshing in a way if that doesn't appeal to people because it's a little too direct there is the

00:15:33.520 the classic fade-in maneuver which is when you kind of edge up to a group and you know you sort of

00:15:39.740 listen to what you're saying listen very hard and when it's appropriate you kind of you just enter

00:15:45.180 and you you say something that's relevant to the conversation as if you've been there all along

00:15:49.800 the the trick with the fade-in is that you can't hang around the periphery too long

00:15:54.660 lest you become a party ghost you don't want that to happen you have to actually complete your fade-in

00:16:01.520 and then another one of my favorites which is you have to be a little careful with if you're a man i

00:16:06.720 think these days but it's called the flattery entree and it's when you go up to someone and you

00:16:11.900 say excuse me for interrupting but i have never seen such fabulous earrings now of course that's

00:16:17.400 an easy one to do if you're a woman but if you're a man you can still go up to make like another man

00:16:21.620 and say that's the wildest tie i've ever seen or like that you stay stay above the chest when you're

00:16:27.780 doing the felt flattery entree everyone likes flattery and you know or you can even use if if you know

00:16:33.800 something about the person like you've heard that they're the one that brought the guacamole you can

00:16:38.940 go up and say excuse me i don't mean to interrupt but did you make this fabulous guacamole that's

00:16:43.600 another form of the flattery entree and that people will respond warmly then they're also um i have a

00:16:50.220 whole list of opening lines that range from risk risk-free to daring daring ones are scarier but they

00:16:56.640 can often be more fun if you're once you get into it and that's all in the art of mingling yeah the uh on

00:17:02.780 the flattery one for guys if you want to flatter a guy and not be weird about it compliment the guy

00:17:08.500 on his watch yeah that's a great one yeah because every because there's always what's great about it

00:17:13.020 because usually with the watch first off it guys like that because you know probably spend a lot

00:17:17.000 of money on it so it reflects your style but also there's usually a story behind it yeah and so you

00:17:21.640 get them talking about the story oh this was my grandfather's watch blah blah blah blah and it's great

00:17:26.120 right that's absolutely true watch is kind of like the male version of earrings for for women

00:17:31.200 i mean sometimes women have watches too but you're right for a man that's usually the thing that

00:17:35.700 they wear that has something interesting about it one warning i would have that a lot of people make

00:17:40.480 the mistake in their opening line of asking people what they do for a living that seems like a natural

00:17:47.540 thing you know because it's you want to figure out who the person is you're asking them a question

00:17:52.100 but if it's an opening line it's actually not recommended and here's why you don't know what subject

00:17:58.960 you're bringing up uh when you ask somebody what they do for a living it could be something it could

00:18:03.820 be they don't have a job they've lost their job they do something that's not something you don't

00:18:08.040 want to talk about and now you're into that conversation but but more than that it's really

00:18:13.140 kind of like it comes off sounding like you're trying to figure out if that person's worth your

00:18:17.400 time to ask somebody right away what they do it's kind of like okay who are you how much money do you

00:18:22.900 make and do i want to talk to you and it's just it's fine after you talk to them for a few minutes

00:18:28.680 to then say oh so and what do you do that's perfectly normal but just not as an opening line

00:18:34.400 going back to the fade-in approach how do you do it in a way where i'd be the way i'd be afraid with

00:18:41.380 that is that i think i'd make my comment then everyone would think like who the heck is this guy

00:18:45.180 is that like is that a risk you take or do most people just don't care right or they just don't

00:18:51.960 care most people don't care like that goes under the heading of everyone has mingle phobia and

00:18:56.620 you're not the only one who's scared and if you realize that every single person even if they look

00:19:00.640 confident almost everyone has the same fears or has had the same fears as you so most people are

00:19:06.580 going to not be rude about it if you if you end up making a you know a comment that doesn't go over

00:19:12.240 the probably the worst that happens is they just ignore it and keep going on and it might be a

00:19:17.220 little bit awkward and then you can either stay there and you know try again or if you're not

00:19:22.480 interested or it doesn't work you just fade out you know that you just fade out you know fade out

00:19:26.700 escape i don't you know the fade is not my first choice because of that it is a little bit but the

00:19:33.700 thing about the fade is if you listen for a while and the conversation doesn't seem like something that

00:19:39.060 you can get into you can you can abort you don't actually have to complete the fade in and you go

00:19:44.660 try with another group so it appeals to some people for being for like hedging your bets right and one

00:19:51.200 thing you talk about in the book throughout the book is that with mingling so i mean one of the common

00:19:55.880 bits of advice we're told when we're having conversation we need to be present with that

00:20:00.140 person look in the eye but you also with mingling like you also have to be on the lookout for

00:20:04.000 other stuff the same time you're doing that so how do you balance right the rule is looking for

00:20:09.020 new opportunities yeah yes the rule is that you should you oftentimes do have to look around the

00:20:14.580 room because otherwise you never move so but the rule is that you you you when when the other person

00:20:21.580 is speaking that is you have to keep your eyes focused on their face when you're talking then you can

00:20:27.220 actually let your eyes wander because sometimes if you know that's a normal thing you could be thinking

00:20:31.600 a lot of people's eyes wander when they're thinking about something and it's less rude

00:20:35.440 obviously you can't you know you have to keep coming back to the person so it's not

00:20:39.720 really obvious that you're scoping out the room but you can while you're talking look over

00:20:44.480 you know quickly here and there to sort of see what's going on but never while the other person is

00:20:49.660 talking gotcha let's say you get the opening line and it went smoothly but then the other thing

00:20:56.380 people are afraid are afraid of is like okay how do i keep this thing going right right because you

00:21:00.480 don't want it to you get it you there's always that moment of awkward silence really like well

00:21:04.560 okay so what do you what are your what's your advice there um well just remember that the best

00:21:09.820 mingling is is playful and in by that i mean that making observations often allows for more organic

00:21:17.360 conversation than just keeping questions going so and also it helps you if you're lost you just

00:21:24.100 like look around and and try and focus on what's going on and and observe so saying something like

00:21:29.600 i can't believe how grown up julie's daughter has become might be um like a better way to go than

00:21:36.680 have you read the news today or what part of the city do you live in or i mean you could do that too

00:21:41.460 but i found that the observations because then when you make an observation it allows people to respond

00:21:48.140 with more creativity like that person could say yeah boy you could i have that happens with my

00:21:55.440 children my children have grown up before i knew about it or you know like it can it just opens up

00:22:01.320 stuff whereas if you ask people questions you can get staccato yes or no answers that and then you

00:22:06.640 can you're just like no further along and it's also more more threatening so when you make an

00:22:11.520 observation instead of asking a question it just allows people to relax more i found and as you

00:22:16.520 mentioned the book the observation should be kept positive you shouldn't most of the time should

00:22:20.580 be kept positive yeah no no no bad gossip no no um isn't that a funny hat the hostess is wearing

00:22:25.340 right i mean unless meant to be funny that's fine but yes no you know definitely positive no no gossip

00:22:32.020 and one of the things uh in this updated version of the book you talk about how you know most you're

00:22:36.720 supposed to keep it light observations talk about the weather talk about what's going on the party

00:22:40.660 but in you as you highlight in the book in today's political climate like everything seems

00:22:46.520 politicized and right an innocuous you know observation about you know my oh my health i

00:22:52.000 had to go to the doctor that can turn into this heated debate about health care how do you manage

00:22:56.540 that yeah i mean yeah even the weather which used to be the safest conversation you know as quoted in

00:23:02.140 all victorian books on conversation you know there were two safe safe topics the weather and your

00:23:08.840 health were the things that they taught you as a polite person to talk about and both of those lead

00:23:13.240 right into politics now so or can so i do have a section in the book on how to deal with that and

00:23:19.620 um ranging from trying to figure out like when you enter the area whether you can there are some test

00:23:25.920 questions that are kind of tricky that you can use to find out if someone's a fanatic but mainly

00:23:30.800 you don't even go there and but if you fall into the conversation and you realize that you're about

00:23:35.880 to have an argument or it's about to get tense there are ways to diffuse and escape um you either

00:23:41.360 just change the subject or you can you can actually just say well uh you know my mother always said

00:23:49.880 i shouldn't talk to strangers now i know why or something like that um no that's that's actually

00:23:54.320 not that would be only if they're they're actually getting mad at you but the better line would be

00:23:58.180 to say something like um well i guess we can't solve the world's problems in one night shall we

00:24:04.180 go let's go get a drink or how let's go get some more food you know something you basically make a

00:24:09.040 changing conversation line and then you move to another area you know or you can say well i guess

00:24:14.280 we better either talk about something else or step outside try to make a joke about it and if it

00:24:19.960 doesn't work then you just have to escape uh you don't want to be get into an argument at when you're

00:24:24.760 at a party i mean my favorite one to do is just to say suddenly if someone says what do you mean do

00:24:30.920 you believe in blah blah blah i'll go well i don't know about that but there's one thing i know about

00:24:35.320 i'm starving will you excuse me and then you just go off to the food table sometimes you can get in

00:24:40.800 you know you can have a conversation it's not always the choice to escape sometimes sometimes it

00:24:47.420 can be you know interesting to have a conversation with someone who's on the other political side

00:24:52.940 but not if they're going to get angry so there are you have to read the book but there are

00:24:59.180 complicated ways that you can actually tell whether somebody is a fanatic or not

00:25:04.300 gotcha so let's talk about so mingling is as we said earlier you're there for 10

00:25:09.260 5-15 minutes um so that means you have to get out of these conversations at some point and

00:25:16.020 that that's another fear i think people have so the fear is like okay starting the conversation

00:25:20.060 keeping it going now how do i end this without looking like a jerk right so what are your favorite

00:25:25.660 tactics for ending mingling sessions so you can start another one right um this is actually it's

00:25:31.420 such a big subject i realized after i wrote published the first edition that this was the

00:25:36.780 main thing people wanted to talk about because everyone's really scared and doesn't know how to

00:25:41.260 escape so i have a whole chapter on escapes escape techniques the most common one that everybody

00:25:46.240 knows about which i have dubbed i have dubbed the buffet bye-bye and other handy excuses and that of

00:25:52.940 course is when you say oh excuse me i i really need to go get a drink or i'd like to i need to

00:25:57.900 get some food etc now of course the problem with that one is the people if you've really got someone

00:26:02.860 who's glommed onto you you they may follow you and um so the one of those excuses that the only one

00:26:10.080 that really works is to say i have to make a phone call even in today's age of i have a self

00:26:16.800 smartphone you know everyone knows that if you're at a party it's not you can't just whip out your phone

00:26:21.860 right there so they know you have to go off by yourself so that's the way you and then you

00:26:25.620 actually have to go off and look like you're making a phone call for a second then go to another group

00:26:30.100 but there are many other uh other uh escape techniques that work one of them which seems to

00:26:36.480 be most people's favorite has a very cruel name it's called the human sacrifice and in the human

00:26:44.400 sacrifice what you do is you wait until someone you've met or you know is walking by close enough to

00:26:49.800 you you reach out and you kind of grab them you introduce them to the person you have been

00:26:54.540 talking to and as soon as they are basically say hello to each other there really is about a five

00:27:00.060 second period five or ten seconds when you can just leave it's this it's based on the the the one of

00:27:06.820 the uh five laws of survival which is change equals movement movement equals change once that group

00:27:12.780 shift like that conversation is broken you basically you got to get out fast but you can leave as soon as

00:27:18.200 out of the person it's kind of like changing dance partners you've given that person somebody else

00:27:23.080 to dance with now you can go there's there's also another one that's pretty common that i like to

00:27:27.720 do is called i like to talk about anyway it's called the counterfeit search counterfeit search

00:27:33.480 and that is when you you you say you you find a pause hopefully to enter interrupt and you say

00:27:41.480 um i'm so sorry but someone just walked in the room that i'm supposed to talk to

00:27:46.560 because my boss made me to or my girlfriend said i had to or some excuse like that so it's like you

00:27:52.780 have a mission and you're so sorry but you have to go my favorite one was also similar to the opening

00:27:58.080 like just be honest with people say hey i'm here to mingle it's great talking to you yeah i'm gonna

00:28:03.040 go mingle some more yes that's that's a good one the honest approach in reverse that's a really

00:28:07.080 that's actually a very good one all right what do you do okay you mentioned like someone gets someone

00:28:10.900 gloms on you this has happened to me i went to a like a cocktail hour and i was there to

00:28:15.860 mingle but i got stuck with this one person and like i would try different things like you know

00:28:21.580 sort of intuitively okay and it didn't work like they just followed me and followed like what do

00:28:26.240 you do about how do you escape someone who's glommed on to you like that yeah well that that's when i

00:28:30.960 think the human sacrifice is the only the only thing to do there's also there's also something i i think

00:28:36.340 it's called the manager that i have in the in the book and that that is when you actually take the

00:28:41.540 person i need you to meet somebody that's the stronger version of the human sacrifice and you

00:28:47.860 walk them over to someone you know and i mean all fair in love and mingling the person you might think

00:28:52.760 well i can't do this to a friend but you know if there's no other way to do it you walk that person

00:28:57.240 over to someone you know you introduce them and you and usually and you say i know you're going to

00:29:02.340 like so and so has just been telling me about such and such you say you give them their first topic

00:29:06.980 of conversation so that it'll stick basically and then you walk away you know that's that's

00:29:13.100 probably probably the most you can do right sacrifices must be made yeah so so um we mentioned

00:29:21.080 you kind of talked about this a little bit earlier so you let's say you you try to fade into a group

00:29:26.700 you try to you know enter you know enter into a group conversation but like you're rejected uh how do

00:29:33.820 you handle that you just move on and just cut your losses and not make a big deal about it

00:29:36.960 yeah if you can basically if you're most of the time if you reject it it's not going to be in a

00:29:41.000 very overt way but in a subtle way and you just have to take a deep breath you know maybe go back

00:29:45.500 into one of the survival fantasies again like your best friend is with you and lick your wounds and

00:29:50.640 remember that it's not it's you know one person's garbage is another person's treasure so it's not

00:29:56.200 really personal maybe that you're just not their cup of tea so try not to you know all of a sudden

00:30:01.660 say oh my god everyone hates me um but if you if someone insults you there are some lines in the

00:30:08.700 book that from you know some might suit someone that not all these lines suit everyone but i think

00:30:14.580 as i mentioned before this is a line my mother always talked me told me not to talk to strangers

00:30:19.120 now i know why is one of the ones you can say to people if someone's just rude to you like it might

00:30:24.640 make you feel better to actually have a comeback like that rather than just skulk away or slink away

00:30:29.920 but if you make if you make a bad faux pas and it's that kind of thing then there are also other

00:30:35.980 different kinds of recovery techniques for that but if someone's just rejecting you you know that's rare

00:30:42.700 really people think that's going to happen but it doesn't usually happen mostly it's just they

00:30:47.640 don't talk to you or they or they escape from you really quickly and you just you know move on

00:30:51.880 right don't take it personally don't take it personally everyone else who knows what that

00:30:56.440 person's got in their head maybe they've got some super goals for the party and you just don't fit

00:31:01.060 them or whatever what do you do about these situations at a party that you get there you're

00:31:06.700 like one of the first ones there that's another fear oh yeah that's why everyone shows that's why

00:31:10.940 everyone shows up late to parties an hour late so how do you manage that if you're just there's just a

00:31:15.500 few people there and everyone's kind of in their own corner and not just really keeping to

00:31:20.140 themselves and of course they're on their phone you know acting like they're doing something

00:31:23.740 important so how do you that is a challenge because in the old days the phones were not

00:31:27.740 were not not and you could just easily corral those few people so what happened if you're in that

00:31:33.820 empty room situation the best thing to do is to offer to help the host or the hostess if they're

00:31:39.320 there's not anybody's there yet they're the host is probably still running around you know doing

00:31:43.940 things you can offer to help and then the only other thing to do is to go just go up to one of those

00:31:48.860 people pick the one that seems like the most my father always had this thing where when he was he

00:31:54.320 had a thing that i call judging a book by its cover and when in doubt pick the person who's dressed

00:32:00.740 most like you he was a musician and he used to go to a party and if he had a loss he would look around

00:32:07.980 and he'd find the one person who wasn't in a suit and tie and he would go talk to that person and

00:32:12.440 it always worked for him because he was also not a suit and tie person because he was a musician

00:32:17.180 um so you just find somebody and then you just have to interrupt them if they're on the phone

00:32:21.480 and say excuse me hi you know uh and just use one of the opening lines but the helping the host is

00:32:29.040 is a is always a good thing to do i don't you know you can always get out your in all if in that case

00:32:35.200 if every three people are there and they're all on the phones you can get out your phone too but i

00:32:39.500 would that's a that's a last resort i really recommend we've got to get rid of this this is a bad thing

00:32:45.100 people should be talking to each other so in the book you also highlight that mingling isn't just

00:32:49.340 for parties or social events that you could do this throughout the day in public and as you said

00:32:54.640 i think americans have this like a fear they don't we like to keep to ourselves yeah so how do you

00:33:00.400 overcome that fear and how do you mingle in public without it being weird well it's funny that you

00:33:06.560 know in the i'm a new yorker and this is one of the things that we i think that it's wonderful about

00:33:11.140 being in new york because we are not on our in our cars we are almost always on the street in a bus

00:33:15.760 or in a subway so it's a lot easier because people are but still even in new york city people are still

00:33:21.720 on their phones and they think they're around all these people and again the the i i've very

00:33:27.920 encouraged people to talk to strangers whenever possible and safe to do so because you can have a

00:33:34.860 conversation with a stranger on the subway on the bus in the shopping mall you know while waiting in

00:33:40.480 line for something that really does make your day better i mean it's not doesn't happen every time

00:33:46.220 certainly because not everybody is you know going to like everybody else but um just observation

00:33:53.060 again is the key when you're standing in line you can talk about the line you can ask how long you've

00:33:58.660 been in line you can start talking about the venue that you're waiting for you know when you're you're

00:34:03.500 on the bus you can you know look out the window you can observe what's going on on the bus you know

00:34:08.480 you you're on the subway you see somebody who has the same um theater program that you have you ask

00:34:15.960 didn't you like the play you know there you get it once you get into the habit and you just look all

00:34:20.240 it really takes is being aware of your surroundings and instead of looking and putting your phone away

00:34:24.860 and just looking at people and being curious and the rest kind of follows once you get in it's kind

00:34:31.000 of like a muscle once you start talking to people and you get good reactions and you people smile at you

00:34:36.160 and you have a nice little nice little interlude in your day that you wouldn't have before it like

00:34:41.000 makes your day different it's actually really can be wonderful let's say you've done some mingling and

00:34:47.060 you can do it just for its own sake it's just it's energizing in and of itself right but right let's say

00:34:51.820 you you meet somebody that this you're like this could be a deeper relationship a better connection

00:34:56.520 how do you do follow-up with mingling because i'm sure when you're mingling the people the person you

00:35:02.740 think i want to follow up with them they've mingled with lots of people so they might not

00:35:06.740 remember so how do you do it in a way where they remember like aha yeah i remember this conversation

00:35:11.120 right well first of all not everybody has business cards these days but if what i do is as far as

00:35:17.820 business when you're at the party when you've gotten to the end of your fascinating 15 minute

00:35:21.960 conversation i will hand them my card and then hopefully they will offer me their card but one of my

00:35:28.660 tips is that it's it's um may sound like old-fashioned etiquette but don't ask for their

00:35:33.540 card and you you should get offer your card and let them offer theirs because it's a little bit too

00:35:40.280 intrusive to ask for their card i mean in certain business situations that's different but if you're

00:35:45.340 in the same industry but in general now so if you have their card when you get home you can send them

00:35:50.880 an email and remind them of something that you talked about if you had an interesting conversation

00:35:54.760 you know always refer to something in the conversation so that they can remember who you

00:35:58.960 are if you don't have a card you can find them on facebook and direct message them usually it's

00:36:05.200 pretty easy to do that obviously because you can find them through the hostess's friend list probably

00:36:09.920 or if you remember their name if you have their name hopefully you can but don't don't immediately

00:36:14.920 facebook friend them until you've written them a message first and you have some response

00:36:19.400 after meeting somebody once for 15 minutes i don't think it's appropriate to facebook friend

00:36:23.680 them now again people who are 20 years old may have a different rule depends on your circle but

00:36:29.520 that's what i say and then and again always refer to something that you've that you've talked about

00:36:35.360 at the party and just say how nice it was to meet them and you'd like to you'd love to see them again

00:36:40.580 you'd love to have coffee or something and then let's see if they respond before actually proposing a

00:36:45.820 date that's sort of that allows the person the space to not respond and it keeps you from feeling

00:36:51.360 rejected if they don't want to do you know what i mean so it's more like a great to meet you

00:36:55.680 message than anything else yeah i think it's good to put that caveat it's like if you can i'd love to

00:37:01.480 if not no worries right um you know just like and also just focusing on how nice it is how nice it

00:37:08.320 how nice it was to talk to them and how much you enjoyed the conversation yeah well gene this has

00:37:12.460 been a great conversation where can people go to learn more about your work people can go to my

00:37:16.540 website gene martinette.com and you know also my books are available on amazon and anywhere books

00:37:22.340 are sold fantastic well gene martinette thank you for your time it's been a pleasure thank you so much

00:37:26.220 for having me brett my guest here is gene martinette she's the author of the book the art of mingling it's

00:37:30.420 available on amazon.com you can also find out more information about our work at her website

00:37:34.020 gene martinette.com also check out our show notes at aom.is slash mingle where you can find links

00:37:38.940 to resources where you can delve deeper into this topic well that wraps up another edition of the art

00:37:49.620 of manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website

00:37:53.820 at artofmanliness.com if you enjoy the show i've got something out of it i'd appreciate if you take

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00:38:01.200 thank you and share the show with some friends that's how we get the word out about the show

00:38:04.440 as always thank you for your continued support and until next time this is brett mckay telling you to

00:38:08.640 stay manly

The Art of Manliness - July 31, 2025

#362： The Art of Mingling

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