The Art of Manliness - #364： How to Know When Someone is Lying (From a Former CIA Officer)

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast have you ever

00:00:18.880 been burned by somebody because they told you an outright lie can happen to your personal or

00:00:22.600 business life you're on cloud nine your girlfriend tells you she loves you only to find out later

00:00:26.520 she's been cheating on you for months client says their business is solvent but they end up

00:00:29.720 bankrupt and you lose a ton of money on the account wouldn't be great to avoid these situations by

00:00:33.900 being able to tell right then and there if someone is lying to you well my guest day has spent his

00:00:38.060 career in the cia sussing out deceptive behavior and developed a system to help other agents know

00:00:42.240 when someone is lying or telling the truth his name is michael floyd and besides being a former cia

00:00:46.240 agent he's also co-author of the book spy the lie on today's show michael dispels some myths about

00:00:51.440 lie detection like for example there's really no such thing as lie detection rather michael argues

00:00:56.000 you should focus on behavioral and verbal cues that suggest someone is deceiving you and when

00:01:00.500 you see those cues to investigate further he then walks us through the system he used during his career

00:01:05.600 as a cia agent and now as a corporate consultant to flush out liars after the show's over check out

00:01:10.360 the show notes at aom.is slash spy the lie michael joins me now via clearcast.io

00:01:15.680 michael floyd welcome to the show well thank you brett it's good to be here so you wrote a book

00:01:24.860 along with your co-authors called spy the lie it's about well kind of debunking some of the myths about

00:01:31.980 lie detection and we'll get into that a little bit but before we do let's get your background's

00:01:36.600 really interesting what's your background that led you to write this book about how to

00:01:40.100 figure out if someone's lying to you well it goes back to 1972 straight out of college undergraduate

00:01:45.820 school i went into the army military police i went through officer basic training in fort gordon

00:01:52.260 georgia where the original government polygraph school was and that that piqued my interest when

00:01:59.260 i got out of the military i ended up in chicago at a company called john reed and associates to get my

00:02:06.460 master of science degree in detection of deception when i graduated they invited me to join the staff

00:02:12.760 i was with them for six years and then was ultimately recruited to the cia doing similar work

00:02:19.860 and then on to nsa the national security agency and i left the government in 1989 to go to law school

00:02:28.180 and then out of law school in 1992 i started a polygraph business with an office in san francisco

00:02:35.980 and los angeles did that for 10 years and then reunited with a very good friend from cia a guy by the name

00:02:43.400 of phil houston a co-author of our book spy the lie and we are now on our second business entity called

00:02:51.560 q verity and so we are still in the world of uh collecting information for for clients

00:02:58.840 and so is q verity similar what you've done before it's deception or deception detection

00:03:03.660 yes yes yeah q verity is a company that uses this proven information gathering methodologies that we

00:03:11.160 developed within the u.s intelligence community now for commercial applications okay well let's let's

00:03:18.220 talk about this idea of deception detection or human being a human lie detector is there such a thing as

00:03:25.200 being a you know a human lie detector unfortunately there's not but we we feel that our methodology

00:03:32.280 certainly is is the best out there for doing this but the reason there's really no such thing as a

00:03:39.900 human lie detector is you know we're not mind readers so our methodology is designed to uncover

00:03:48.380 what we call clusters of behavior and i can get into that a little more deeply later but when we

00:03:55.800 interview somebody and we identify these these clusters of what we think are deceptive behaviors

00:04:01.080 it's incumbent upon us as interviewers to drill down ask follow-up questions to see if we can get at

00:04:08.620 the reason for the concern that the person's exhibiting through the behaviors we're assessing

00:04:15.160 and i think it's also important to note as you highlight in the book that polygraph

00:04:19.320 tests aren't really lie detection tests they give you information that allows the polygraph examiner to

00:04:25.300 you know say follow up on this but they don't actually detect lies that that's exactly right uh it's

00:04:32.000 more of a a think machine and so i mean why is it so hard to know if someone's lying i mean what are

00:04:37.600 some of the biases that we have um i mean obviously we can't read people's mind that's the big thing

00:04:42.200 but what are some other factors that cause us to be deceived well this really gets into the uh

00:04:47.940 the the model itself what we call the model that was developed the primary developer of this was phil

00:04:54.720 houston at the agency it's all predicated on cause and effect if we don't know the cause of the

00:05:02.920 behavior we simply can't assess it we we're trying to get people out of the world of of speculation of

00:05:10.300 guessing gut instincts having a hunch and and using a codified model with with two rules first rule

00:05:18.400 is the timing rule which says that the first deceptive indicator must occur within the first five

00:05:26.760 seconds of the stimulus and the stimulus in our world is the question and so we want to make sure

00:05:33.460 that if we are seeing deceptive behavior it's because of our question and and not some unrelated

00:05:42.460 thing so it's cause and effect is is really what we're looking for for for for the deceptive behaviors

00:05:50.500 gotcha and i mean so there's timing and clusters we'll get into that a little bit like some of the

00:05:55.500 behavior things we should be looking for but another important factor or principle in this

00:06:00.140 system you guys have developed is you guys said that in order to spy the lie you have to ignore

00:06:05.060 truthful behavior which seems sort of counterintuitive can you explain that a little bit why it's why you

00:06:11.000 have to ignore the truth in order to spy the lie well it it it to be to be effective at detecting

00:06:19.940 deception obviously you first have to understand what deception looks and sounds like and then have

00:06:25.300 a systematic and objective approach so that your attention is focused exactly where it needs to be

00:06:32.840 focused and back back in the day when i was trained we were taught to look for both truthful and

00:06:42.860 untruthful behavior and then almost as a scale of justice way does the truthful behavior outweigh the

00:06:50.920 untruthful behavior and if so we would arrive at an opinion of of no deception indicated but what we

00:06:58.820 discovered what what phil discovered was that truthful behavior is easily imitated and replicated if if you

00:07:08.460 were accused of doing a bad thing and wanted to be successful in deceiving the interviewer about your

00:07:16.920 involvement you think about the kinds of behaviors that you think somebody might be paying attention

00:07:22.820 to things like good eye contact sitting with an open posture being friendly developing some rapport with

00:07:31.580 the interviewer just generally appearing to be very cooperative these are things that can easily be

00:07:39.140 imitated and replicated you know it it it's not rocket science uh to give people good eye contact and sit with an

00:07:47.240 open posture and so it it's it's easy for someone to present truthful behavior even though they're not telling

00:07:54.800 the truth another danger is what we call the halo effect people don't necessarily lie to all the questions they may

00:08:03.440 tell the truth to easily verifiable information and then lull us into thinking well if they're telling the truth about the

00:08:11.740 things that we know are truthful that therefore they must be telling the truth about everything else so that that that's

00:08:18.100 another reason and then also the a bias element creeps into this truthful behavior process we will as

00:08:26.100 interviewers often we we will see what we want or expect to see so if we go into that interview believing

00:08:35.680 that the person's probably going to be telling us the truth it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy

00:08:41.460 where we're we're now seeing truthful behavior which leads us to believe that the person must be truthful

00:08:48.520 so what we do is we just simply ignore truthful behavior and by doing that it really cuts our

00:08:58.000 workload in half as interviewers so now all we have to do is look and listen for deceptive indicators

00:09:06.340 and tune out this whole process of looking for truthful behavior and so it just it makes the detection of

00:09:14.740 deception process much more streamlined and much more focused if you think about going to a doctor for your

00:09:25.560 annual physical the doctor gives you a series of diagnostic tests and if those diagnostic tests come back

00:09:33.680 without any indicators of ill health the doctor infers from the absence of those negative health symptoms

00:09:42.440 that you are in good health our detection of deception model follows the same medical model in that

00:09:50.800 as we probe with our surgically designed questions during an interview if there is an absence of

00:10:00.340 deceptive indicators we infer truthfulness from the absence of deceptive indicators i don't know if this

00:10:09.560 is making any sense to you or not no it no it makes perfect but but that that's exactly how we do it

00:10:16.000 so if there's an absence of deceptive indicators an absence of what we call clusters of deceptive

00:10:22.440 indicators we infer from that truthfulness so i so as this cuts down on your as you say your bandwidth

00:10:28.760 right you're only focusing on deception i'm sure it does take a bit of time to get over that bias of

00:10:33.940 looking at the truth right and just ignoring it it does and in our training in fact in the book spy the

00:10:41.840 lie uh we we talk about the obstacles in detecting deception and one of the major obstacles is what we

00:10:50.020 call this tendency to believe we're all guilty of it it's it's just endemic in our society it's the way

00:10:57.280 we've been raised to see the best in people to accept things at face value you're you're innocent

00:11:04.540 until proven guilty and so uh as an interviewer if you go into the interview with with that tendency

00:11:12.600 to believe mindset the deceptive person will use this as a weapon against us and they'll take advantage

00:11:20.100 so we encourage people to go into to the interview not with cynicism but rather what we would call

00:11:29.380 professional skepticism where we're we're not necessarily accepting things at face value it's a

00:11:36.280 much more clinical objective systematic approach to that interview setting so you mentioned earlier

00:11:43.800 that we're looking for timing and clusters timing is uh if there's any indicator after the stimulus

00:11:49.880 which is your question within five seconds of asking that then there's clusters we'll talk about

00:11:53.720 some of the different clusters or some of the different types of behavior but how many of these

00:11:58.540 different behaviors or ticks that you see should be near each other for you to say yeah that's

00:12:05.560 probably he's probably lying to us as opposed to if there's just one or two you think well

00:12:09.660 maybe he's not lying to us how do you how many is there like a i don't know what's the word i'm

00:12:13.740 looking for a minimum amount of behaviors you need to see before you say that's a cluster

00:12:17.700 exactly that that's the the cluster rule says that we have to have a minimum of two deceptive

00:12:26.220 indicators in response to that single question so if you think of an interview as a q q a you go from

00:12:34.760 one question to the next question and so on each question and answer is a separate mini examination if

00:12:43.140 you will these deceptive indicators are not cumulative from one question to the next so

00:12:49.640 i ask you a question where were you last night and in that response i see two or more deceptive

00:13:00.100 indicators and this can be a combination of both verbal and non-verbal indicators in response to that

00:13:07.840 question i infer from that i infer from the two or more deceptive indicators in your response

00:13:14.900 that you have a problem with that question now this is why we're not human lie detectors i can't read

00:13:24.340 your mind but i do know from your your bad behavior that that question has stimulated concern or that you

00:13:33.200 have concern or uncertainty uh in in that information you just provided to me now it could be that you're just

00:13:41.140 flat out lying to me and that's why i saw those those indicators but it could also mean that you you you have

00:13:48.700 a problem you may lack confidence in what information you just provided or you may be uncertain about the

00:13:55.900 information you just provided so what i do then is i typically will follow up with with an another

00:14:04.760 question and drill down to see does that concern go away does your answer does your response make sense or

00:14:15.140 as i continue to probe and drill down do those clusters of deceptive behavior remain and uh the more i ask you

00:14:24.740 about this the worse your behavior becomes and now i know i'm probably on to something quite

00:14:31.220 significant so we we use this model really think of it as a a compass that guides us through that

00:14:39.240 interview process it it leads the way or a geiger counter or mining for nuggets of of information

00:14:48.220 and and so as i probe with my questions and observe behaviors uh the interview now becomes a very

00:14:55.780 dynamic process rather than just a list of prepared questions the interview now goes where your behavior

00:15:04.280 goes so it's not just a list of questions it's a very dynamic think on your feet process that i'm guided by

00:15:13.560 behaviors i'm getting from you so um this sounds like it's hard because on the one hand you have to

00:15:18.940 ignore truth but then also you have to you have to both watch and listen right to deception at the same

00:15:27.000 time and that's that's hard so how do you do that how do you both observe and observe for deceptive

00:15:33.960 behavior and listen for deceptive you know communication well it it's difficult it takes it takes

00:15:40.620 awareness it takes training it takes experience and a great deal of focus and concentration during

00:15:48.040 the interview our brains have a dominance the brain wants to either be in auditory mode or or visual

00:15:56.060 mode if our brain is is in auditory mode and we're simply listening for deceptive verbal indicators

00:16:07.720 we're we're very likely to miss deceptive non-verbal indicators if our dominance is is visual

00:16:19.360 then we're going to be of course catching the deceptive non-verbal indicators but now missing

00:16:27.300 the deceptive verbal indicators so we call this process l-squared mode where we train our brain to

00:16:34.400 fight that dominance of either visual or auditory and try to both look and listen for deceptive

00:16:42.460 indicators at the same time and it it's it's easier said than done so people can actually practice this

00:16:51.000 simply watching investigative news shows or when they see a celebrity a politician someone in the news

00:16:58.840 who's been accused of doing something wrong being asked questions about that go you know go into l-squared

00:17:06.100 mode and both look and listen for deceptive verbal and non-verbal indicators and the more you do it the

00:17:13.200 better you get well there's a lot of that going on right now so lots of opportunities to practice i guess

00:17:18.680 yes yes yeah let's talk about verbal communication deceptive verbal communication what are some verbal

00:17:25.200 cues that indicate that someone might be lying so we're in we're focused in on their words what are

00:17:31.120 some things that people say that often tell that there might be deceiving you well something you might

00:17:36.360 find interesting brett since we published that book spy the lie we have now when we do our live

00:17:42.600 training we have taken the deceptive verbal and non-verbal indicators and actually put these now

00:17:50.900 into what we call five distinct psychological buckets it's much easier for people to remember the

00:17:58.900 behaviors and and also understand the behaviors because they now know the psychology behind the

00:18:06.920 deceptive indicators that they're uh both hearing and observing so the the five buckets uh well the

00:18:14.820 first four buckets really uh encompass the deceptive verbal indicators and then the last psychological

00:18:22.740 bucket uh encapsulates what we would call the deceptive non-verbal indicators so uh if i may let me just

00:18:31.960 give you the first four psychological verbal buckets the first bucket is what we call evasion these would

00:18:40.700 be the evasion deceptive indicators think of the evasion behaviors as linguistic acts of concealment

00:18:49.780 uh an example of the evasion bucket would be failure to answer the question or a failure to deny

00:18:59.360 a question with with truthful people the facts are the ally the facts are their friend the facts

00:19:08.500 make them feel comfortable they're not afraid to touch talk about uh the facts so if you're telling the

00:19:16.980 truth your first mission really is to deliver that message the to the person who's answering or who's

00:19:25.460 who's asking you the questions because the facts help you so you're eager to get that out on the other

00:19:32.180 hand if you're not telling the truth the tendency is to evade and and not answer questions or or not deny

00:19:41.620 and so that's that's why we then see those behaviors in the evade evasion buckets

00:19:48.680 so um let's get into that non-verbal okay what's that would be we call those the reaction behaviors

00:19:59.420 these reaction behaviors uh are triggered by the autonomic nervous system when when your question

00:20:06.940 creates a spike of anxiety it's the fight flight thing that we've all studied in school

00:20:12.040 that anxiety has to leak out it has to go somewhere because i know there are consequences

00:20:19.900 associated with my lie being detected that makes me feel anxious and so the anxiety leaks out through

00:20:28.460 this uncontrolled body language things like hand to face activity grooming gestures what we call

00:20:36.600 anchor point movements you know the shifting in the chair the bobbing of a foot you know curling hair

00:20:45.360 adjusting jewelry wiping imaginary lint off a desk or off clothing picking or pinching of clothing

00:20:54.520 again remember all of these indicators are in direct response to the question now one of the reasons

00:21:03.740 people get into so much trouble when they try to detect deception is they are relying on behaviors they don't know

00:21:12.020 the cause of some some of the more common misconceptions would be something like posture we've all read that

00:21:19.900 closed posture for example is a negative indicator well when you think about closed posture for example

00:21:28.840 somebody sitting with their arms folded can we really with any degree of reliability

00:21:35.840 understand or know with certainty why that person's sitting that way why are they sitting with their arms folded

00:21:43.520 it may be habit they may be cold so we're simply guessing so we don't use posture as a deceptive indicator

00:21:54.980 if someone is extremely nervous during that engagement during that interview we're simply

00:22:02.040 guessing why they might be nervous people have been taught that people are nervous because they're lying

00:22:07.060 well we know that truthful people can be very nervous during an interview so we're trying to take the guesswork

00:22:14.900 out of it since we don't know the cause of the nervousness or the cause of the posture we don't evaluate that

00:22:20.700 and then the final major misconception is eye contact for generations people have been taught

00:22:28.620 that if someone gives you bad eye contact they're they're hiding or concealing or lying

00:22:34.800 we now know through research that people who are deceiving actually often have better eye contact than someone

00:22:42.140 who is telling the truth so we don't use eye contact either as a indicator of deception also as i said before

00:22:50.860 it's easy to to sit with an open posture if you're lying it's easy to give someone good eye contact if you're lying

00:22:57.460 it's easy to appear relaxed if you're lying so we just stay away from those so so getting back to this reaction bucket

00:23:05.740 the non-verbal indicators we're simply looking for movements and and physical changes that people do in

00:23:14.060 response to our question and we count these then as deceptive indicators and again you're looking for a

00:23:20.900 cluster you want to look for that reactionary behavior with maybe one of those verbal verbal cues connected

00:23:29.540 within five seconds of that stimulus exactly another verbal bucket is what we call the persuasion bucket

00:23:38.180 the these are the behaviors that people exhibit that are aimed at convincing you of something rather than

00:23:44.900 conveying information that you're asking for for example if you were accused of stealing money

00:23:51.300 and i ask you brett did you take the missing five hundred dollars if you're truthful the facts stand on

00:23:59.460 their own and you would simply say no i didn't take the money that's all you have to do but

00:24:06.740 oftentimes if you're lying you feel the urge to now try to manage my perception of you and go beyond the

00:24:15.540 simple no and then sprinkle in what we call these convincing statements things like why would i take five

00:24:23.860 hundred dollars i'm well paid i have no reason to take five hundred dollars i wasn't raised that way i'm

00:24:30.020 an honest person so you've gone beyond conveying information to now trying to convince me of your

00:24:38.260 innocence you also in the book you highlight like uh call to god like you know calling upon you know i swear

00:24:45.540 to god or i'm a religious guy that's in that same book exactly that that's a classic example of of the

00:24:52.420 persuasion bucket where they're now invoking religion uh they're using god as a third-party witness to

00:25:00.660 bolster their stance in in attempting to lead us to believe they're not the type of person that would

00:25:10.180 do something like this so there's the evasion bucket there's the persuasion bucket where the other two

00:25:16.180 the manipulation bucket this is where they try to control or manipulate the process they try to

00:25:23.060 disrupt our game plan as interviewers they will do things like repeat the question this is another

00:25:31.220 reason for the cluster rule we know that truthful people will sometimes repeat questions so just because

00:25:37.780 somebody exhibits an isolated single deceptive behavior uh we're not going to leap to the conclusion that

00:25:45.140 the person's lying to us but if we see two or more deceptive indicators in response to the question

00:25:52.260 then of course uh we're going to be concerned but getting back to repeating the question what lying

00:25:58.980 takes quite a bit of mental energy to to pull it off so when i ask you brett did you take the missing

00:26:06.420 500 500 the first decision you have to make is do i lie or do i tell the truth and and so all these

00:26:14.020 things take time so in order to control the process i i the liar i need think time i need to buy some time so but

00:26:23.620 by repeating the question i'm now buying myself i'm i'm i'm bridging that gap of silence rather than just

00:26:33.140 sitting there when i ask did you take the missing 500 and you you just sit there as you ponder whether

00:26:41.060 to lie or tell the truth uh since you know that's so obvious uh by by bridging that gap repeating the

00:26:48.660 question by saying did i take the missing 500 you've just bought yourself some talk time and so uh repeating

00:26:57.140 the question does that it's what we call a mask for the oh my god moment what do i do do i tell the

00:27:03.620 truth do i lie so repeating the question or another very similar thing that people will do under the

00:27:09.700 manipulation bucket is to use what we call a non-answer statement things like that's a good question

00:27:17.860 or why are you asking me that again you are buying time you're giving yourself think time to formulate

00:27:25.620 an answer was um you gave the example of bill clinton of the book his famous what's the definition of

00:27:32.900 is is is is that a manipulation yes that that that is we see this often with well-educated people who

00:27:40.740 who will wordsmith they will attempt to get us to change the scope of our question to narrow the scope

00:27:49.700 so that they can now provide a truthful answer so by saying depends upon what the meaning of the word

00:27:58.260 is is is there's a way of of doing exactly that so uh we got evasion persuasion manipulation what's

00:28:08.260 the fourth aggression and we see the aggression behavior often when the stakes are extremely high

00:28:16.580 or the person that we're uh interviewing or talking to feels extremely threatened we see this often in

00:28:24.340 the political world where these people you know there's just a ton of consequences associated with

00:28:31.540 some of the things that you know have been surfacing recently and the the psychology behind the aggression

00:28:38.020 bucket is the person being asked the question becomes aggressive in the hope that they will get

00:28:45.620 the interviewer to back off so by by when they feel cornered by a question the hope is i want

00:28:54.500 this line of questioning to go away and we will often see interviewers on television for example

00:29:03.540 or reporters once this politician celebrity criminal whoever it is it's being talked to on television

00:29:11.940 feels cornered uh they they they begin to attack the interviewer and belittle or impeach the credibility

00:29:20.420 of the interviewer themselves in the hope that now the interviewer will discontinue that line of

00:29:26.820 questioning great and you gave some great examples in the book of that that happening so we encourage

00:29:31.940 people to go check that out so all these behavioral and verbal clusters are all dependent upon

00:29:37.620 the stimulus so that means you have to ask the right sort of question before we talk about what

00:29:42.500 are the you know what sort of questions you should ask what are some questions you should avoid that will

00:29:47.140 give you basically you're playing in the hands of the the person manipulating you or to see a person's

00:29:53.940 ability to detect deception is dependent upon their ability to ask good questions because if you ask bad

00:30:02.740 questions you for example if if you ask a ambiguous confusing question you're going to get ambiguous

00:30:11.620 confusing behavior and you won't be able to detect deception another example of a poorly phrased question

00:30:19.540 would be what we call a negative question uh if i asked you brett you didn't take the 500 did you

00:30:28.020 it would be so easy for you now to say no i didn't take the 500 because i'm i'm telegraphing to you that

00:30:36.340 i'm expecting you to say no you didn't take the 500 so we want to avoid negative questions we want to

00:30:43.860 avoid compound questions where were you last night and what were you doing the deceptive person can choose

00:30:51.300 to answer one part of the question and just conveniently not answer the second part of the

00:30:58.420 question so so those would be other examples and we we want to make sure that the questions we ask

00:31:04.900 are short single meaning concise questions the shorter the question the clearer the stimulus the

00:31:14.580 the easier it is for us to evaluate the behavior and just one one final point on a questioning we want

00:31:22.020 to make sure that we ask the question in a very low-key non-accusatory manner if if i'm aggressive and heavy

00:31:31.540 handed with my question and very assertive just my demeanor alone could cause deceptive behavior from a truthful

00:31:41.540 truthful person because they're react they're reacting to my tone rather than to the words of

00:31:48.180 of my question yeah and you gave some really good examples of that in the book i love the example

00:31:54.500 where i think it was phil was interviewing someone and for some position and the guy admitted you know

00:32:00.820 just through you know phil was very low-key very am you know he wasn't wasn't aggressive and throughout

00:32:06.340 the process of the interview this guy opened up and confessed that he committed all these crimes that you know

00:32:10.420 basically made him ineligible for this job and at the end of the interview the guy said when will i

00:32:15.140 know when i if i'll get the job or not and because like phil didn't let on at all that you know like

00:32:20.660 this is bad that you did these things he was like completely non-judgmental just getting that information

00:32:24.500 from him yeah that's exactly the approach we use during an interview and also during uh what we would

00:32:30.900 call the the non-coercive uh interrogation process if you think about what what our life work has been

00:32:38.100 it's really about information collection and to be able to obtain both a high quantity and quality

00:32:47.380 of information you have to really be good at three separate skill sets one is of course asking good

00:32:52.900 questions the second would be detecting deception and that's what our first book spy the lie is all

00:32:58.100 about and then our second book that's called get the truth gets into this third skill set and that is

00:33:05.380 how do you get someone that you know is lying to you to provide that incriminating information and

00:33:12.420 to your point it involves being very low-key and and under the radar right so you don't want to do

00:33:18.900 any of the aha it is you just pretty much keep going on with the questions once you spot that yeah the

00:33:24.660 last thing we want to do is come across as judgmental we're not the judge and jury and so our our whole

00:33:32.100 mission is to be under the radar low-key non-judgmental we want that person to feel comfortable in confiding

00:33:41.700 you know to us well michael this has been a great conversation there's a lot more our listeners can

00:33:46.820 learn as you got a second book out where can people learn more about your work well they can go to our

00:33:51.460 website qverity.com where we will from time to time have analysis of people in the news politicians and

00:33:59.540 celebrities who've been accused of things we do have analysis there where they can practice and see

00:34:05.780 what what our opinions have been over over the years on people in the news and then the book spy

00:34:12.580 the lie is is a great resource along with now our second book get the truth so those would be the

00:34:18.260 the resources that i would recommend well michael floyd thank you so much your time it's been a pleasure

00:34:23.460 thank you brett thank you very much my guest today was michael floyd he's the author of the book spy

00:34:28.660 the lie it's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere you can find out more information about

00:34:32.820 his work at qverity.com also check out our show notes at aom.is by the lie where you find links

00:34:38.580 links to resources we can delve deeper into this topic

00:34:53.620 well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice

00:34:57.620 make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com if you enjoy the

00:35:01.060 podcast i've gotten something out of it i'd appreciate if you take one minute to hear this

00:35:04.100 review on itunes or stitcher or whatever podcast service you use helps out a lot and if you've done

00:35:07.780 that already thank you please share the podcast with your friends word of mouth is how this show

00:35:12.580 grows the more the merrier as always thank you for your continued support until next time this is

00:35:16.820 brett mckay telling you to stay manly

The Art of Manliness - December 14, 2017

#364： How to Know When Someone is Lying (From a Former CIA Officer)

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