The Art of Manliness - #365： Why Are 7 Million Men Missing From the Workforce？

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast for the past few

00:00:18.700 decades there's been an intense focus on getting more women in the workplace and helping them 0.99

00:00:21.980 thrive and succeed there at the same time however a silent problem has emerged that could have

00:00:26.540 serious repercussions on our economy and society more and more men have been dropping out of the 1.00

00:00:31.660 workforce completely i guess today is an economist who has written a book highlighting what he calls

00:00:35.440 an invisible crisis his name is nicholas eberstadt and his book is men without work today on the show

00:00:39.840 nicholas delves into the research that shows that while unemployment is down the number of men actually

00:00:44.140 working or looking for work is lower than a generation ago we then delve into some of the

00:00:48.060 possible causes of the disappearance of men from the workforce what these non-working men are doing

00:00:52.300 while they're not working and how they're supporting themselves without a job nicholas then

00:00:56.280 discusses the possible economic societal problems that this growing number of non-working men create 1.00

00:01:00.780 and what we can do on a micro and macro level to encourage men to be self-reliant and industrious

00:01:05.340 after the show's over check out the show notes at aom.is slash men without work where you can

00:01:09.440 delve deeper into this topic and now nicholas joins me via clearcast.io

00:01:12.740 nicholas eberstadt welcome to the show hey thank you for inviting me so you're an economist and you wrote

00:01:22.200 a book last year called men without work and it highlights research that shows that there are

00:01:30.220 fewer and fewer working age men who could work and aren't working and you say this is an invisible

00:01:36.120 crisis why why is this issue of men labor force petition participation an unknown or invisible crisis

00:01:44.840 that's a really good question and i i kind of wondered about that while i was doing my homework for this

00:01:50.800 maybe it's a little bit less invisible since the 2016 presidential election but we have to ask why a

00:01:59.080 problem that was gathering for half a century was basically outside the radar screen of the decision

00:02:08.440 makers in washington the news media academia for the most part i have some guesses but i don't know the

00:02:16.340 answer to this partly i think it is what my friend and aei colleague charles murray referring to as the

00:02:24.780 bubble effect this is something that has been occurring outside the bubble and people inside the bubble

00:02:30.420 haven't paid as much attention to it as they should partly it's because the flight from work this exodus

00:02:40.340 from the labor force by working age man didn't turn out to cause riots or other sorts of

00:02:48.400 public security problems so it could be ignored a little bit more easily that way it's also perhaps

00:02:56.220 true that working age men are not a designated victim class for the academy and for the media

00:03:06.380 they're supposed to be self-sufficient they're supposed to be supporting other people they're not

00:03:11.300 obviously a vulnerable group and so maybe a little bit less attention was paid to their plight

00:03:17.980 than would have been warranted for whatever reason though this problem has hidden in plain sight for two

00:03:27.380 generations as it has almost steadily worsened yeah we'll talk about its origins i think a lot of people

00:03:33.440 think that this is a recent phenomenon but we'll talk about how it's no it started as you said two

00:03:37.980 generations ago but let's let's get to definitions because i think for the layman who hears unemployed

00:03:42.500 they think oh they're just unemployed like these guys are just unemployed and they can't get a job but

00:03:47.960 what you're looking at is no this is they're not just unemployed they're also not even just they're

00:03:52.460 not even looking for work yeah i'm glad you uh i'm glad you framed it that way so we've got three

00:03:58.760 classifications you can be employed you may only be employed for an hour a week but you're getting

00:04:06.440 paid work that means you're classified as employed you can be unemployed that means you don't have any

00:04:13.700 paid work but you're looking for paid work then there's a third category you're out of the labor force

00:04:20.900 altogether you're neither working nor looking for work nowadays in america for every prime age guy

00:04:30.700 let's say prime age is defined uh by the you know labor statistics folks as 25 to 54 years of age

00:04:40.780 for every prime age guy who is unemployed there are another three who are neither working nor looking for

00:04:50.880 work so they're totally outside the unemployment statistics and if you just look at the unemployment

00:04:58.640 statistics you're missing three quarters of the problem and how do economists figure out like or how

00:05:05.520 exactly how many men are there out there who are unemployed but neither looking for work because

00:05:11.520 unemployed you know sort of you have statistics you can go to you can look at you know people going to

00:05:16.300 unemployment office looking for uh benefits but there's not that's not going to happen with a man 1.00

00:05:20.700 who's not even looking for work well so we have a national jobs report which was devised as a consequence

00:05:29.920 of the great depression when the great depression hit we didn't have any national apparatus for

00:05:39.740 gathering labor statistics we just had the decennial population census so we know what it looked like in

00:05:47.260 1930 and we know what it looked like in 1940 but we didn't know what we didn't know exactly how bad it was

00:05:55.300 in like 1932 or 33 so starting in 1940 the u.s government pulled together a system for tracking labor

00:06:05.740 trends and we were about to launch it in 1941 but instead we did a little thing called world war ii

00:06:15.100 and so it had to be postponed until after we won the war and things calmed down a little bit so this was

00:06:23.260 launched in 1947 it's a monthly report conducted by the census bureau for the labor department and

00:06:32.940 it tracks people all over the nation in a way that's supposed to be random and representative

00:06:39.660 in the civilian uh non-institutional population if you want to get really nerdy as to their existence

00:06:47.100 and then their employment status it depends upon asking people questions and upon relatively accurate

00:06:56.680 uh responses to those questions although although there are some ways of checking on it but that's the uh

00:07:02.840 that's the bread and butter for

00:07:05.960 our post-war

00:07:07.480 employment statistics

00:07:09.400 unemployment statistics and also for finding out about people who are neither working nor looking for work but are of uh prime working age

00:07:18.720 so roughly based on the these statistics how many men in the prime working age are not working today

00:07:26.880 uh round number today seven million between the ages of 25 and 54 seven million it's an enormous army

00:07:37.520 and this army of men who are neither working nor looking for work in prime work ages

00:07:47.920 has been growing three times as fast as the total population of prime age men for fully half a century

00:07:58.640 so if you do anything three times as fast as something else for half a century you change the world

00:08:04.000 at this point in time more than a tenth of all civilian non-institutional prime age men

00:08:13.120 are out of the workforce altogether neither working or looking for work and that's in addition to

00:08:20.400 those who are formally unemployed and this isn't a recent phenomenon this this as you argue in the book this

00:08:26.560 began in the 1960s yeah um from the first months of the jobs reports in the late 1940s until

00:08:38.720 the mid-1960s there was really no trend the uh the proportion of men not at work kind of bounced around

00:08:48.720 without any sort of uh real you know direction to it it was kind of seemingly stable over the long this

00:08:54.640 long period around the mid-1960s there's a breaking point and since then the proportion of guys who are

00:09:05.680 neither working nor looking for work has grown exponentially and if you flip it around the other way

00:09:14.400 if you look at the percentage of guys who have paid work you can see a a real collapse

00:09:24.880 the percentage of guys with paid work in the united states has dropped from almost 96 percent in the

00:09:37.440 mid-60s to about 85 percent today it's dropped by more than 10 percentage points and in fact if you look at

00:09:48.400 the latest figures that came out last month for the percentage of uh prime age guys with paid work even uh

00:09:58.400 you know even an hour of paid work a week it's slightly worse than it was in 1940 in the 1940 census

00:10:08.800 which is to say at the tail end of the great depression when the national unemployment rate

00:10:14.400 was over 14 percent so the scale of the problem we're looking at today is kind of great depression

00:10:22.240 scale wow and is this a uniquely american problem or other western industrialized countries saying the same

00:10:28.640 issue well all rich western democracies have seen some decline in the percentage of prime age guys

00:10:43.200 in the workforce over the past let's say two generations but our decline is by far the worst

00:10:50.960 ours is the steepest and the largest so we have to wonder why is that i mean there are a bunch of

00:11:01.840 other rich countries around the world who've had economies that have been a lot more moribund than ours over

00:11:10.080 the last you know 50 years i mean look at what's happened in japan over the last generation it's been

00:11:15.520 pretty flat in the water but but japan's performance it's a lot better than ours you take a look at a

00:11:22.720 place like france which has got a famously rigid set of rules on the labor market it's got a great big

00:11:31.680 expensive welfare state their labor force participation for guys is a bunch above ours i mean you know um

00:11:39.520 greece is in extremis you're kind of perennially but it's uh performance is also uh more favorable

00:11:46.960 than ours so there's something what would you say we've won a race that we don't want to win and we're

00:11:52.800 exceptional in a way that we shouldn't want to be exceptional so why is that i mean what is going on

00:11:59.440 in america is are there fewer well-paying jobs is it a cultural thing what do you what do you suspect i

00:12:05.440 know there's no definitive answers but what are your hunches well of course like any other great

00:12:09.680 big historical change i don't think we can have a kind of like a one-factor theory of history it's

00:12:15.040 probably a bunch of different things in uh in the usa like other rich industrial democracies we've had

00:12:23.760 a big you know what you might call structural economic change we've had the decline of manufacturing

00:12:29.680 we've had more trade competition china and the world trade organization outsourcing decline in demand

00:12:38.320 for less skilled work uh all of that's a very big factor in this we've also clearly had some

00:12:48.960 changes in the way that our social welfare state works our social welfare state as you know i'm

00:12:56.240 constantly reminded when i go to other affluent societies it's a very stingy one compared to

00:13:01.200 theirs so it's not the the scale of generosity perhaps of our social welfare state but maybe some

00:13:07.920 of the perverse incentives we have a sort of a disability archipelago which plays a very important 0.99

00:13:17.200 role in providing alternative income to men who are neither working nor looking for work in this

00:13:25.920 prime age of life we also have something which is kind of invisible and i think terribly

00:13:33.200 sad and overlooked in our society which is quite different from almost any other country on earth

00:13:40.400 and this is the enormous invisible population of felons of people who have been sentenced to a felony

00:13:51.360 who are not behind bars uncle sam does not collect information on this i think to our shame but others who have attempted to estimate the

00:14:03.920 the size of this population suggest that as of the year 2010 there were over 19 million

00:14:13.200 adults in america with a felony in their background now they're obviously overwhelmingly guys

00:14:18.800 if you do the arithmetic and look at flows and stocks today there are most likely over 20 million americans

00:14:28.560 not behind bars in society as a whole who have a felony in their background overwhelmingly guys

00:14:36.160 this means that today whether or not we discuss it in general in public something like one in eight

00:14:43.760 adult guys not behind bars has a felony in his background and uh probably a somewhat higher

00:14:51.520 proportion for the men of prime working age this is one thing that is very different in america from

00:14:59.600 any other rich country and i have to think that this is part of the tableau we're looking at as well

00:15:06.320 right because most on most job applications they ask you if you have committed a felony

00:15:11.920 and that might be a reason people don't hire them well that's one of the reasons i mean there's

00:15:18.320 it's kind of ironic there's a movement in different places around the country called ban the box which is

00:15:27.840 supposed to mean that employers are not allowed to ask about that and ironically in the places where

00:15:35.840 this initiative has has succeeded people are much more likely not to hire uh ex-cons because they

00:15:45.200 presume that everybody's an ex-con and um right so it has the it has the opposite of its intended effect

00:15:54.160 but it's certainly true that if you've committed a felony there are a whole bunch of things you can't

00:15:58.880 do you can't work in financial services i mean you could just think about all the different things you

00:16:02.800 can't do but there are other aspects which i don't think we really understand uh well enough i mean

00:16:08.800 in my book using non-government data i show that no matter what a guy's age or his ethnicity or his

00:16:19.120 educational level he's way more likely to be out of the workforce if he's been to prison than if he is

00:16:27.040 just you know been arrested and way more likely to be out of the workforce if he's just been arrested

00:16:33.280 than if he's never had any trouble with the law now i can't tell you why that is i mean one reason

00:16:40.480 might be discrimination against felons another might be that people who go to prison lose their skills

00:16:48.240 somehow while they're in another hypothesis might be that employers just aren't all that interested in

00:16:56.000 the type of people who tend to get in trouble or there may be something else or there may be other

00:17:01.440 things or it may be some combination of these but as long as we have this glaring lack of information

00:17:09.760 about this now enormous share of our adult male population we don't don't know we can't know right

00:17:21.680 well give us a snapshot i mean what does this disengaged male worker look like i mean what

00:17:28.880 average age i guess the average age is you know between 25 and 50 but where do they live primarily uh

00:17:35.200 what do they do with their all their spare time if they're like if they're not working

00:17:38.640 what are they doing well let's start with that we can we can tell about that aspect of life from

00:17:47.840 information the government regularly collects in what are called time use surveys these are things

00:17:55.120 which the labor department collects you know to get an idea of when people are working and you know

00:18:00.880 what they're doing getting to work and stuff like that but they also ask people who aren't employed

00:18:05.840 about this adults who aren't employed so of the seven million neither working nor looking for work

00:18:13.760 between the ages of 25 and 54 a little bit more than a tenth are adult students you know they're studying

00:18:24.880 they're trying to gain skills presumably to get back into the game and get a better job

00:18:31.680 um their time use looks pretty much like employed men um the overwhelming majority though of guys in this

00:18:45.440 out of the labor force pool are in what is called the neat category n-e-e-t neither employed nor in

00:18:56.880 education or training and for them the picture is pretty grim i mean for one thing and this is all

00:19:07.440 self-reported people in this group basically don't seem to do civil society not much volunteering

00:19:16.400 not much charitable work not much worship you might think they have nothing but time on their hands

00:19:22.880 but they do relatively little in the way of child care or caring for other people in their household

00:19:32.960 family and not that much in the way of household chores what they do what they report doing is watching

00:19:44.640 and the surveys don't ask whether it's watching a tv or a handheld device or a laptop or whatever but

00:19:55.840 it's watching stuff about 2100 hours a year i mean which is akin to a full-time job and these same time

00:20:06.480 use surveys suggest that these guys are getting out less and less that they're

00:20:15.280 not leaving the house not traveling outside the house as much today as they used to in the past now

00:20:22.960 some other work that was done since i published this book uh suggests that a very large proportion

00:20:32.400 of these um men not in the labor force are taking uh pain pills maybe something like almost half taking pain

00:20:46.480 pills every day according to self-reported uh survey data so this tableau is not just of guys

00:20:57.600 as sitting at home you know playing world of warcraft it's uh playing world of warcraft while stoned

00:21:05.680 and it's it's a very grim picture that is grim i mean what are i mean that for the individual it's

00:21:14.480 grim but let's talk about a like sort of a societal ramification what are the some of the economic

00:21:19.680 and social ramifications of having so many disengaged men from the workforce more or less exactly what

00:21:26.960 you'd imagine and none of it good uh so what does it mean you have this enormous chunk of prime age

00:21:36.160 male manpower sidelined in this sort of way well slower economic growth bigger income gaps bigger wealth

00:21:47.120 gaps in society more social welfare dependence probably higher budget deficits and thus higher public debt

00:21:55.920 obviously more pressure on fragile families less social mobility less healthy civil society i mean

00:22:04.080 you know just go through the whole thing there's nothing good in it it's all bad i i mean i wish i could

00:22:09.440 figure out a good thing in it but it's it's it's it's a problem for the individuals it's a problem for

00:22:15.440 their families for their communities and for our nation do like i mean i guess the individuals are having

00:22:20.320 because they're taking pain medication which they probably might not even have physical pain might

00:22:25.360 be a way to soothe the psychological campaign but i think when guys hear like oh you just get to watch

00:22:30.480 tv and play video games all day and it sounds like the dream life are there some men who are like that

00:22:34.160 they're like yeah just i have no desire to get back into work even though i could this is great for me and

00:22:40.640 i want to keep doing this well if you look in particular at what has happened to the anglos the

00:22:50.960 non-hispanic whites at working age men it's true of working age women too i guess but if you look at

00:22:58.560 the men in particular there's been a noticeable increase in death rates for lower skilled prime age anglo

00:23:08.480 men over the past two decades let's say and a lot of these are from what the princeton economists uh

00:23:17.120 and case and angus deaton angus um won the nobel prize in economics a couple of years ago a lot of

00:23:23.440 these deaths are from what they call deaths of despair from um cirrhosis of the liver and from drug

00:23:30.720 overdoses and from suicide so that aspect of it doesn't look like such a happy picture

00:23:38.880 now this isn't only men not in the workforce i hasten to say that they weren't focusing just on

00:23:45.520 that group but but that's part of it and the consumption of pain medication looks to be a lot

00:23:54.240 higher for those who are out of the labor force altogether than for unemployed or for employed guys

00:24:01.920 going back to what this demographic looks like our education level is it primarily just high school

00:24:08.960 grads are there college grads or is it primarily a lower education uh demographic i'm glad you asked

00:24:15.520 that so now if you have let's say seven million uh people in a group you're going to have some of

00:24:21.920 everybody most likely but as you indicate some uh groups are overrepresented and some are underrepresented

00:24:29.360 so to start with the ethnic thing african americans are decidedly overrepresented in this group

00:24:37.840 but among what's called persons of color both asian and latinos are underrepresented they're more

00:24:46.320 likely to be in the labor force than the national average with education it's just like you said high

00:24:51.520 school dropouts way more likely to be in this group than the national average college grads and

00:24:59.440 people with graduate degrees way less likely turns out that marital status is a big predictor no matter

00:25:06.640 what your educational background or ethnicity if you're married you're less likely to be in this

00:25:14.800 group if you've never been married you're way more likely to be in this group no matter whether you

00:25:19.920 have kids or not having a kid at home by the way all other things being equal means you're less likely

00:25:25.680 to be out of the labor force more likely to be in the game in the labor force looking for work or

00:25:31.040 getting work then there's finally this category that the census bureau awkwardly calls nativity and it

00:25:37.920 doesn't mean like christmas scenes it's uh it means like whether you were born in the usa or not guys

00:25:45.360 who are born in america are more likely to be out of the workforce altogether than guys who are born

00:25:51.520 abroad and it doesn't matter again about your ethnicity asian anglo african-american latino immigrants

00:26:01.520 of all flavors are more likely to be in the workforce than their native-born counterparts so

00:26:10.160 that's kind of like the broader picture of how you know different source of code uh social

00:26:16.880 categories uh look in this respect how are these men supporting themselves and what's their living

00:26:22.320 standard like so you mentioned disability payments as one source from what we can divine from

00:26:31.520 government information on spending patterns which i think are the important

00:26:40.080 numbers in trying to understand consumption and standards of living the men who are out of the

00:26:49.120 workforce altogether are not in the bottom fifth of our income distribution people who are in the bottom

00:26:58.240 fifth of our income distribution and our spending patterns are single mothers they're the ones who are 1.00

00:27:06.400 in the most disadvantaged in the most disadvantaged position these men without work without workforce

00:27:13.120 participation are in the quintile above that ironically they're kind of in the group that used to be the

00:27:23.440 kind of the status for people who are called working class except these are guys who are neither working

00:27:28.960 or looking for work they clearly have lower standards of living than men who are at work they are drawing their sustenance

00:27:42.880 off of their families other family members off of their girlfriends and off of their uncle and that uncle would be uncle sam

00:27:54.960 according to one government survey done by the census bureau

00:28:02.560 almost three and five of the guys who are neither working or looking for work in this critical group

00:28:09.760 the 25 to 54s almost three and five receive benefits from at least one government disability program

00:28:20.080 and if you qualify for benefits uh from disability programs by convention then are eligible for other

00:28:29.200 benefits as well low income healthcare medicaid snap which we used to call food stamps and other things like

00:28:37.120 that so it is clear that men who are out of the workforce um don't live like princes but on the other hand

00:28:47.920 they are not at the bottom of u.s society either and what do you think we can do about this i know you're

00:28:56.800 primarily describing the problem and don't get too much of the prescriptions but what what could we

00:29:02.960 do to solve this issue or is it solvable well it's a it's a big long-term historical trend so i tend to

00:29:13.680 think that big uh long-term historical trends take a while to turn around doesn't mean they can't be

00:29:20.080 turned around of course we have to try to turn them around i was very light on recommendations in this

00:29:27.280 book partly because i didn't want to bigfoot this it seemed to me was much more important to get people

00:29:33.600 talking about the problem and offering discussions from all around the public square than to have nick come

00:29:41.760 in with his i don't know you know a 10-point program or whatever to uh you know uh show us the

00:29:48.000 tablets from the mountain for what it is worth i would talk about things that government can do and

00:29:56.640 things that government can't do and then a couple of things that maybe government should be looking at

00:30:03.440 among things that it possibly might be able to do so this problem clearly corresponds with the breakdown

00:30:11.520 of the family in post-war america that's something i don't think the government can fix and i i think

00:30:17.840 i'd be kind of scared if the government you know set up a bureau for fixing the family in america because

00:30:23.760 the unintended consequences of that would be unimaginable and maybe worse than anything positive

00:30:29.680 they tried to do so the family is a huge uh aspect in here and probably outside of washington's purview

00:30:38.720 by the same token religion and faith has some important role here and i'm not sure we should

00:30:48.080 want uncle sam to be monkeying around with that either that's a civil society matter among things that

00:30:55.280 the government might be able to do however i i would point to three or four in particular

00:31:01.120 one is skills college is not for everybody obviously but nobody should graduate without having a skill

00:31:12.720 and one of the awful things about education in america today is a lot of people graduate from high

00:31:21.680 school without a marketable skill we need to fix that broken aspect of our educational system

00:31:29.840 and maybe destigmatize vocational training a little bit so that's one thing that could be done

00:31:37.040 not necessarily in washington maybe in localities but it's something in general that should be examined

00:31:43.360 second thing we've seen small businesses in america increasingly struggling and this is a trend that goes back

00:31:51.520 decades it's happened under republican presidents under democratic administrations under red congresses blue

00:31:59.920 congresses we've had a long-term trend of declining business startups it's not entirely clear why this

00:32:11.040 is i mean i suspect it is related in part to the increasing difficulties that small businesses face in attracting

00:32:20.720 finance and the growing tax burden that they face and the growing regulatory burden not just in washington and

00:32:30.160 states and localities as well if we have a healthier small business environment we're going to have a much better

00:32:38.400 job creating engine than we enjoy right now so that's a second thing i think worth looking at third has to do

00:32:46.880 with our disability insurance programs they were established for a very good purpose which is to provide social

00:32:56.160 insurance for people who can't work the programs as a whole have mutated away from their intended purpose

00:33:04.240 and there are a lot of people now who rely on disability programs as an alternative to employment

00:33:14.800 it's hardly a princely life it's a penurious income but it is an alternative to working life we had a welfare

00:33:24.480 reform 20 years ago that worked pretty well in transforming aid for families with dependent children

00:33:33.040 into uh temporary assistance for needy families i think we should wholesale reform our national

00:33:42.000 programs for disability benefits into on a kind of a work first principle i realize that's easier said than

00:33:49.840 done but that would be the objective and then finally we've got this invisible population of 20 million

00:33:56.640 people who are ex-felons who are kind of living in the shadows of society i mean that's that's kind of 1.00

00:34:03.520 appalling we're a government that set up the census uh in 1790 because our founders thought that information

00:34:13.120 was important for public policy that was more than two centuries ago can't we really have some information

00:34:21.040 about how people in this enormous group live what their health is like what their employment is like

00:34:27.600 what their incomes are like what their government program dependence is like we can't have evidence-based

00:34:33.840 policies for bringing people out of this pool and into the workforce unless we have the evidence so

00:34:40.320 those would be a couple of the directions that i think might be worth examining let's put it that way

00:34:46.480 and what do you think for people who are listening to this podcast they could sure they could go and

00:34:51.040 you know write a letter to their congressman about these issues and vote for someone who who's doing

00:34:56.160 you know who's on the same who's got this on their platform but what can individuals like in civil society do

00:35:02.160 you know to help with that that problem well i mean of course there's to begin with what we might call the

00:35:10.240 the empathy barrier in a time of increasingly gated communities and decreasing contact between social strata you might start by wanting to get

00:35:25.920 out a little bit and seeing how the other half is living and what the real life circumstances of some of your fellow american citizens are like

00:35:38.240 and then maybe you'd have a little bit more perspective on some of the problems which we are facing today

00:35:48.160 because what's happened in the us over the last decade or so is that the escalator has broken for a large

00:35:58.640 fraction of our fellow citizens and i guess i'd say the first thing we ought to do

00:36:06.000 is get out a little bit and kind of you know recognize the reality the information revolution

00:36:13.680 has been wonderful in innumerable ways but it's also balkanized us and in a way it's kind of separated us

00:36:23.520 from our fellow citizens because we all find you know kind of like self-validating self-confirming

00:36:30.320 kind of sources of news and in some ways may kind of like retreat from the uh from the public square

00:36:37.120 a bit i think it would be really valuable for for more contact between americans and i realize that's

00:36:44.000 extraordinarily vague to say but i think that might be a very positive starting point for for self-informing

00:36:52.320 approaches towards addressing really long-term problems in our country well nicholas eberstadt

00:36:58.480 this has been a great conversation thank you so much for your time it's been a pleasure

00:37:03.120 my guest is nicholas eberstadt he's the author of the book men without work it's available on amazon.com

00:37:07.840 also check out our show notes at aom.is men without work where you can find links to resources

00:37:12.240 where you delve deeper into this topic well that wraps up another edition of the art of

00:37:25.680 manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website

00:37:29.360 at artofmanliness.com if you join the podcast i've gotten something out of it i appreciate if you take

00:37:33.200 one minute to give us a review on itunes or stitcher it helps out a lot and if you've already done that

00:37:36.720 thank you please share the show with a few of your friends word of mouth is how this show expands

00:37:40.960 his audience the more the merrier as always thank you for your continued support and until next time

00:37:45.120 this is brett mckay telling you to stay manly

The Art of Manliness - December 19, 2017

#365： Why Are 7 Million Men Missing From the Workforce？

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