#378： Brunch Is Hell; Dinner Parties Are Heaven
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Summary
According to my guest today, the past decade has seen the rise of a truly soul-sucking food trend. In fact, he argues it s creating a hell on earth. What is this mealtime monster? It s brunch. My guest's name is Brandon Nunnum and he and his co-author, Rico Galliano, are on a mission to destroy brunch and bring back the dinner party.
Transcript
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brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast according to my
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guest today the past decade has seen the rise of a truly soul-sucking food trend in fact he argues
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it's creating a hell on earth what is this mealtime monster it's brunch my guest's name
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is brandon nunum and he along with his co-author rico galliano are on a mission to destroy brunch
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and bring back the dinner party brandon and i begin our conversation discussing why brunch has
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become big business in america but why he thinks it's terrible for us individually and also as a
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society we then dig into why we should bring back the dinner party as the preferred mealtime social
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event brand explains why hosting a dinner party is a pretty dang manly affair and why dinner parties
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are so much better than brunch he then gets into the nitty-gritty of hosting a dinner party including
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the optimal day to schedule one the best way to invite people and who to invite brandon shares
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why the food isn't the most important thing at a dinner party while also providing some easy
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entree options that people will love we end our conversation discussing how to handle small talk
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and controversial discussion topics why the party is just getting started after the food has been
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eaten and how to give people the hint they need to leave if they're staying too long after listening
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to the show you'll be jonesing to host a dinner party of your own after the show's over check out
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our show notes at aom.is slash brunch is hell brendan francis noonam welcome to the show thanks
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thanks for having me so you and your co-author rico wrote a book and you have a podcast first off you
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guys have a podcast called the dinner party download you guys came out with a book called brunch is hell
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how to save the world by throwing a dinner party so let's start off with the title man that's that's
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pretty provocative my seven-year-old son sees that brunch is hell and he's like that is dad brunch is
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not hell and that's terrible so oh why is brunch hell why do you have this vendetta against brunch well
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first of all i thought you're gonna say that your son wouldn't be able to look at it because it's a
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bad word but apparently your household those rules don't apply we're loosey-goosey around yeah it i mean
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doesn't i mean don't you feel it in your heart that brunch is hell and if you don't i i would just say
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that you know we all we all work hard every week we we you know do our best as parents as employees as
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as teammates as human beings and then you know we get a couple days a week to kind of relax or collect
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our thoughts or think about our future or kind of repair in some sense and what do we do with one of
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those days we stab it in the heart by waiting in line for breakfast at around or not even breakfast
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this hybrid meal around noon one o'clock and then maybe we go inside and then may it's this really
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loud place playing tinny music and then you sit down and then you wait and then you have a surly
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servant who comes by and offers you something and then it takes forever to get it and then you consume
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all this food and you drink a couple bottomless mimosas and then you pay way too much money for eggs
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and then you leave and now it's like 3 30 and you're drooling on yourself a little bit because
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you date where you were day drinking and now all that ambition has has has gone away and you still
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have a bunch of day left and you've kind of just ruined ruined one of your one of your opportunities
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to kind of grow and be fully human and so brunch i feel like is uh just kind of jamming people's radar
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it's it's it's bad it's like false kind of false calories it feels satisfying but it's a poor
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form of leisure look we don't think that you shouldn't entertain we shouldn't have fun and
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you shouldn't get mischievous but we just don't think brunch is the place to do it there's a great
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time to feel that way and that's at the end of the day after you've done your stuff and that is
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what a dinner party is for yeah the dinner party well and what's interesting is there was a time in
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american culture where like people that's what you did you threw dinner parties right yes but what
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happened like why did the dinner party decline and then brunch this sort of frankenstein meal
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take its place what happened what cultural changes think facilitated that that's the spirit well there
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are a lot of things i mean first of all you know brunch rose you know kind of started to come about
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when restaurateurs had this leftover food that they needed to move or go bad so they decided you know
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you buy they buy a bunch of steaks expecting to sell them a saturday night dinner they don't sell them
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so they turn it into a beef hash and the next day and they and they charge you for it so that
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that's one reason there started to be a surge in restaurant serving brunch parallel to that and and
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we you know the new york times other other wall street journal people have written about this you
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know people feel like a dinner party is too much heavy lifting it's overwhelming it's uh you know they're
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too busy they think to go home and prepare a meal and i think the the the what you know when people
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think of a dinner party often they think of like a tablecloth they think of like perfect china they think
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of three course meals and uh i think that's really anxiety producing when the truth is we advocate
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the dinner party we advocate for you know they don't have to be they don't have to be such a such a huge
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undertaking so i think it's a little bit um you know people got busy people got intimidated restaurants
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started to kind of uh seduce people with their their clapboards on the on in the front of their
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restaurants seducing people to come in with bottomless mimosas and and i do think overall too people
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stopped relying on themselves a little bit you know restaurant life is easy it's you snap in there
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and uh you just like park and it's like being like an adolescent forever like you just like
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that you know i want this i want this you order people around they give you food you hand a piece
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of plastic and you leave and i feel like you know i i don't think i have to give too many examples that
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are societies in many ways deteriorating around us and i'm not going to say brunch is the culprit but
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i'm saying brunch is the culprit yeah no yeah so brunch keeps you a perpetual adolescent dinner
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parties are for grown-ups because you do it yourself agreed well among among many reasons
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like dinner parties look here's the thing there's the host of a dinner party and that person has to
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be on point like you're kind of an uber adult in some sense and yet the guests they i'm not saying
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every it's not that the world is doesn't have to be some militaristic operation the guests there get
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to fully completely relax and and in fact like if you're the host you know if you're a guest your job
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is to relax is to enjoy yourself and why we also advocate for dinner parties is that they happen in
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in your private home and in a private home then things can actually you can be fully human like
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can you pick up a guitar at a restaurant and start strumming some silly song could you light up a
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cigarette if you know or could you you know dance on on on the tables like those things cannot happen
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at a brunch spot but they can happen at a dinner party so i don't want people to think that you know
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dinner party has to be this formal affair but but it's more like yes it's more of an adult setting
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because you're in someone's home there's someone hosting it and you it's at the end of the day
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after you've kind of done your adult things and then we have some rules rules of the road about
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dinner parties that we're very flexible about ultimately but things like you know at a dinner
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party we think that you shouldn't have your employer there you shouldn't have more than 25 percent
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immediate family you shouldn't have things that make you feel obligated and that may impinge upon
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you feeling completely free in a sense see i mean i really think that idea of why people don't throw
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dinner parties particularly i think millennials in the age of instagram where everything has to
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look perfect they don't want to do themselves they don't feel like they can meet the expectations that
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the internet will have for them on what a party or get together should should look like so they're
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just like ah i'll just outsource that and go somewhere else where yeah a restaurant takes care of
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it makes it looks really cool it makes for great instagram photos at a a swanky not a swanky
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restaurant like a hip restaurant that's serving brunch exactly right yeah no i mean i feel like
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that short-circuited us it made us feel bad about ourselves in many ways but you know look uh have
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has anyone invited you like have you ever been invited to have dine at someone's house and gone
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there and been like this food is awful like no you're excited that someone invited you over you know
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you're excited you're excited that you're able to talk with your friends and listen to some music
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and what a treat for you as the guest to just not even have to pay frankly even on that on that basic
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level so the idea that the food has to be perfect or that the you know the timing has to be off
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timing has to be perfect is is a bit naive because what makes a dinner party you know part of the
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beauty of it is that that is artisanal it is a reflection of the host and it isn't some business
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plan that's been dialed in like a restaurant so it is going to have some rough edges so i think if
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anything what makes a dinner party better than uh an ideal brunch or instagram is that it's human
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and that's what makes people feel comfortable you know if you go to a dinner party and it is stuffy
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and everything is perfect you're not going to feel comfortable in a sense it's unreal it sets
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unrealistic expectations all right so hosting dinner parties is often seen some you know seen as something
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that ladies do right and i think like dinner party i think like 1950s etiquette manuals like you said
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the tablecloth the the silverware whatever uh make the case that dude should be throwing dinner parties too
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i mean i think i think i i try to you know live in an enlightened universe in which the distinction
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between dude what dudes and ladies do is is no longer there uh in a sense so i feel like you know
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we can expand upon the idea of of who we are i don't know i i feel like i'm i'm the i've always been
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the cook in my relationships and stuff like that and so i i and my my uncle like the people in my life
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that i admire who are men often are are the cooks and stuff so i feel like any gender can do this but i get
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what you're saying the frame in which you're coming approaching this question is that well you know
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what what can make someone who is a bit alpha and maybe testosterone feel like it's it's okay to host
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this because often barbecues are considered the domain for men right we don't think barbecues are
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dinner parties we we endorse barbecues but they're very different thing they can happen any hour of the
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day people you know and you can bring friends along people can wear flip-flops there's a lot of stuff
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about a barbecue that makes it not a dinner party so but but i would feel you know let's just go back to
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this so a dinner party we also advocate is like the root of civilization and we think here's what
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here's how dinner parties happen years ago there was a caveman named thorag and he clubbed a pterodactyl
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and he brought it home and he cooked it over a fire and then he and his wife karen had some
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leftover pterodactyl and they were like let's invite erg and his wife over and then they invited to them
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invited that other couple into their home now these these people weren't related
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they're right biologically there was no necessity to protect these people or feed these people
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they just did it because they had some extra meat and wanted to hang out like thorag wanted to hang
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out with erg karen wanted to hang out with ergs ergs wife her name is karen but the point being like
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that was the beginning of civilization you know when we finally had enough abundance that we can invite
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people over and just focus on being friends it wasn't just we were out on the field being predators
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you know we were or you know it was eat or be eaten and like look we are in a civilized society
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fortunately we're very fortunate here in this country and for listening to podcasts you know
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you have you know you're you're probably doing okay to some extent and so just that's that's the
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world we live in and so to invite other people over to your home is actually a very powerful act
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it's a magnanimous act it's like i have abundance come share with share it and let's forge friendship
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and i feel like that's a part about that's part of being a man there's nothing i don't know i don't
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think there's anything that would make some alpha guy feel uncomfortable about that in fact he would
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feel kingly in a sense you know what what do kings do they have feasts at their homes right that's right
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no it's interesting yeah that whole idea of uh hospitality if you go back in different ancient
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cultures like men that was like a competition like who could be the most hospitable to guests and
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sometimes they would yeah they would go bankrupt trying to be the most generous host sure sure
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completely no i just i just think that that frame yeah is of you know you know the the the genderness
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of the dinner party i i hadn't you know i hadn't thought about it a bunch but i think that if part
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of the idea of the art of manliness is how to be competent on some level you know knowing how to do
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this stuff is part of the toolkit of being a fully realized human i think and i think it's something we
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take for granted i think we spend a lot of our times being good employees as i said like being good
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employees being good teammates being good you know this and this is a space like this is part of what
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it means to be be a human being and why go through life not experiencing this sliver of it which is
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you're right it is about hospitality but remember dinner party is two things they have hosts and
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there's guests it's also learn how to be taken care of like learn how to show up at a place
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hold a conversation and and let go for a moment of your life in a very safe space because you're in a
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friend's home all right so you've been mentioning kind of rules of what makes a dinner party a dinner
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party uh so barbecue is not a dinner party if you invite someone over for pizza and soda dinner party
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no not not not really a dinner party i mean you if you made the pizza at home possibly a dinner party
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because look if you know there's a you know we think that if you're gonna have a dinner party you
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have to cook at least 51 percent of the food in your home and that's partially because a dinner party
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is a reflection of you so you need to get in the game a little bit like you need to like
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find the you know you need to you need to cook it yourself get involved and actually the process of
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making the food will make you and your guests more appreciative and again what you decide to cook is
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a reflection of you now if you order in pizza that's a great thing to do not for a dinner party
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because that's just like what you do you know after your friends help you move in or what you do on
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Friday night when you get home from work and it's like the kids and you don't have you're too tired to
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cook and it's like let's just watch some movies and have some pizza but that doesn't have a sense
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of occasion to it furthermore we have other sub rules like if you're having a dinner party it's
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a break from the insane 24-hour assault of advertising in our modern society can't even go
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to a bar without like a neon sign flashing some brand in your face so we think when you have a dinner
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party the table itself should be unadorned it should just be the food and the drinks and maybe a wine
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bottle or beer bottle but you know you're not going to bring out a you know domino sugar in a
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domino sugar box like you're not gonna and so to that extent if you order pizza it comes in a box
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and you're gonna serve it in a box why else wouldn't you and so that's another reason it doesn't make
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the perfect dinner party food soda totally acceptable but again you can't have a two liter
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bottle hanging out on your table you know that that's just not that's just not not dinner party
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now if you cook the pizzas at your home that might that might get you within bounds there okay so
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no advertisements we're ad busters here well i mean look there's a place for them and it's not
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your home man it's not your home it's like this is a place again the focus is the conversation
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it's the person's uh uh face right in front of you it's what someone's saying to the left of you and
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it shouldn't yeah you don't want it you don't want your table to just look like time square
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so let's talk about like when okay dinner party let's talk about the timing dinner party has to be
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around dinner time yeah that's why barbecue is not a dinner party because you can do that at
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four o'clock all day do it all day sure so what time like in the time of day should you shoot for
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having a dinner party i mean i i'm i'm thinking i'm trying to remember back in the book at the time
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in my head it's like between five and eight are your key times but we think we should push it up
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closer to seven because if you're on the west coast you got la there's a lot of traffic i mean everywhere
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atlanta all these places there's lots of traffic so you need people to give give a break to come
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into your home and it gives you a little bit of a runway as a cook to get things started so we think
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that that's your sweet spot a dinner party can't have an end time we think that's a whole different
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thing a baby shower can have an end time you know a brunch can have an end time but a dinner party
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the idea is no like relax from the rules and regulations come to my home and we're gonna let
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it run its course now look we also have methods for getting people out of your home if they if they
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stick around too long but so the ideal time would probably be between like 6 30 7 to get started
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and then it's a few hours but you're not really going to bracket it with another end time and then
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it's also days of the week you know we we sundays are are a bad day for dinner parties because
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everyone's anxious about monday and getting back to work monday is a bad day for dinner party because
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monday night you're doing all the stuff you should have done sunday while you're anxious about being
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back at work tuesdays we think are just dumb i mean what's a tuesday so we're talking
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wednesday through saturday is your is your is your prime rib that that's your beautiful piece
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of dinner party time we're pro thursdays is a great spot because it adds a sense of occasion
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to a monday and week people can maybe even get a little loose and be foggy on work and friday
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that's not unheard of and there's less competition because fridays and saturdays there's concerts
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and other events but so wednesday through saturday are your ideal dinner party evenings yeah i like
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thursday thursdays are a good day for definitely i think definitely you can recover you work and then
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recover you stay in sat friday and then you have your whole weekend to take over the world yeah
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and it gives you something to look gives people something to look forward to yeah you know monday
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and that's a key point that's keeping one of our other rules a holiday party not a dinner party
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these are our our year is sprinkled with senses of occasion that are wonderful they're your friends
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have birthdays someone has a anniversary there's christmas comes up or halloween so that's already
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kind of makes your life feel like it adds a little frisson adds a little fun a dinner party is for
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you know the the end of january or or a space in in the month where there's nothing special going
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on the only thing special is you're like hey guys come over here there's gonna be a burst of
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sunshine at my house i'm like putting in a roast bring over a bottle of wine we're gonna listen to
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records and we're gonna hang out and that is used to exactly as you said people are like whoa
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all right and that kind of gets people gets people a little excited we think having a dinner party
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over christmas that's like giving a kid taking a kid out for ice cream on halloween it's like look
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they've already got the joy and then the kind of uh sense of occasion taken care of it's uh it's
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gilding the lily if you to do that yeah well yeah so yeah that's an interesting point dinner parties are
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a way to make like a boring mundane flat life a little more interesting give a little pizzazz
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absolutely and i'll and particularly you know adulthood is a lot of adulthood and is is taking
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care of others and it is being a good human which are all important things and you don't abandon those
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principles within a dinner party but we like to call it we like to think of the dinner party is like
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it's recess for adults it's like it's the time where you get to then ask a silly question it's where
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you get to you know maybe maybe even have a little a little dancing after after dinner it's where you get
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to maybe early on in the evening have one more drink than you would uh but the idea is you need
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a release valve in life um and this is this is a place where a forum where you can just relax i mean
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that's why we also advocate for not invite you know one of our rules is as i mentioned earlier
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less than 25 percent immediate family any more than that you're going to be in some freudian morass
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which is just going to bring you to like that's what thanksgiving's for is to have all those old battles
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you know you don't want your boss over because all of a sudden people are acting a certain way
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and so the idea is just have friends and that's also you know the heart of our book is about
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conversation and and and how the world can be better the the truth of it is you know if you
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have an uncomfortable question or thought about politics is work the place to say it no on the
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sidelines of your son's soccer game to your your son's friend's mother no you know where can you do
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that anymore well a dinner party is a is a place for that that's a place where you can say hey i don't
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understand this you get to be a little bit you know actually getting back to you get to be a
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little childlike in a genuine way because you're in a very safe space surrounded by friends you can
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throw mashed potatoes at your face or educate you about something so so yeah that's that's the it's a
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sense of occasion and it is a it is a special moment that can like enrich your life yeah that's
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what i love about the conversation that like the conversation for me is what the what makes a dinner
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party fantastic because i feel like again yeah people are less guarded and they're willing to say
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things that they otherwise probably wouldn't say on twitter or facebook or you know in private like
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because they're not going to get their head bit off right and they're they're they're playing with
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ideas and you can't do that yeah a lot of other places absolutely right absolutely right i mean i i
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think you know i think there are large you know the public square is in our country for good reason
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is you know certain discussions are just uncomfortable to have with strangers now i would
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like that to open up i wish we could just really just be maybe a little bit looser and feeling feeling
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more you know closer to our our fellow citizens and and and people that we live life with especially
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at this moment there's a certain polarization people are are feeling chilled in their speech and
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from both sides of the political spectrum in other places but that is not healthy at all and that's
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not how new things happen new things happen over debate new things happen when people don't
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pretend they know something and that's exactly right a dinner party that's your spot like that's
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where your friend's sitting across from you or your friend invited her friend who actually represent you
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know it does this job you're like oh i've always wondered about this and you're not going to be
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judged or condemned because everyone feels you know this glow has been created between the cocktails
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and like the music and just the vibe and the host host themselves that that's the forum to do it and
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they can tell you like you're an absolute idiot and they're not going to start a fight like
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that's okay too because there is this um it is this space of just kind of it's definitely a free
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speech zone that's for sure right so you speaking of conversation are there certain like or do you
00:21:10.700
think there's topics that are off limits at a dinner party or should you be able to should you be able
00:21:14.060
to wade into that we we the old rules were like don't talk about politics and religion and we think
00:21:19.740
we're look where that's brought us like you we think everything is open for the discussion as long as
00:21:24.260
it's done tactfully and we use strategies for having certain discussions you know you don't just want to
00:21:29.860
jump right into it our book kind of after we give you our anti-brunch manifesto we then give you go
00:21:35.680
take you through a dinner party from beginning to end and look there's a time for small talk small
00:21:39.800
talk is often disparaged uh for for being like oh that that's that's empty calories what's the point
00:21:45.120
of that well the point of that is is early on people are getting meeting each other not everyone
00:21:49.260
already knows each other so you got to ease into things you got to test the waters you got to
00:21:53.300
see who has a sense of humor or maybe who's more of an intellectual and it's not for you to self-censor
00:21:57.860
later but it is just everyone to feel comfortable around each other have a drink so i wouldn't come
00:22:01.680
right in and start talking about abortion but you know once you get to know each other and the food's
00:22:06.100
happening and if someone has a serious question absolutely you should be able to bring up whatever
00:22:10.740
you whatever you want as long as you know you follow the basic rules of the road which are like
00:22:15.340
you know you be respectful for political we have a subsection about talking about politics you know
00:22:20.060
one of the rules there is is relevant to everything which is you should go in there you're not going to
00:22:25.040
change someone's mind over the course of two hours you know if you all of a sudden you know
00:22:30.620
you're not going to convince maybe um a liberal that everyone should be carrying an assault rifle
00:22:36.340
to preschool but on the other hand you're not going to convince you know uh someone on the other
00:22:40.580
end of the political spectrum that you know uh you know you're not going to have them join this
00:22:44.260
transgender coffee clash held on sundays uh at the local corner you know and so as long as you go in
00:22:49.740
there knowing like look we're not going to change everyone's mind but i'm going to share an idea or share a
00:22:54.320
thought or i wanted some more information about your side of the story and then once you get to a
00:22:58.140
point where you find yourselves repeating each other you feel the heat rising you just shift out of
00:23:02.360
it because that's that's that's faulty reasoning to think like oh well i'm going to convince them
00:23:07.700
it's like no it should be like hey i have a question about this and then you can kind of share your
00:23:11.480
thought on it but then once it starts to get repetitive you just tastefully turn your head to the
00:23:16.120
guest to the right of you fill your mouth with a piece of roast beef and agree to disagree
00:23:20.220
well so how do you in order to have this type of conversations you got to invite the right kind
00:23:24.660
of people and one of the things you talk about you know why brunch is terrible is that when you go to
00:23:27.880
brunch you look around everyone is just like you if you're if you're going to brunch you're probably
00:23:32.540
relatively affluent got a lot of time yeah yeah you listen to the same music you don't want that
00:23:38.620
at dinner parties how do you how do you capture that sort of diversity of opinions and people and
00:23:44.140
backgrounds at a dinner party yeah and and this is a trick because you do want to feel comfortable
00:23:48.760
you do want to create the space we talked about where everyone feels loose and this so this really
00:23:53.840
is up up to the you know the host needs to you know everyone needs to like respect that host and
00:23:58.680
kind of create the host needs to create a space of trust and so that you need that needs to be your
00:24:03.800
guide about who you're ultimately bringing the mix we have those basic rules of the road i kind of laid
00:24:07.720
out to you which is you don't want a ton you don't want your like your mother there and your aunt
00:24:12.600
because that's going to turn into another thing it might till you don't want your bosses there
00:24:16.040
but yeah you you're going to invite maybe tops 12 minimum four people although we think five is a
00:24:22.960
little bit better for various reasons and then and then within that within that spectrum of people
00:24:27.960
you invite the people you wanted to catch up with you invite those people you but you know so there's
00:24:32.540
going to be a little squad of those folks like we were just meaning to catch up and then maybe there's
00:24:36.540
that other layer of people you met at an event or or you know just people that kind of caught your eye
00:24:41.640
at a whether it was i don't know a book opening or whether it was like a church or something just
00:24:46.680
like whatever people that you see that you're like those are kind of cool that's this is the space
00:24:51.040
invite them over and kind of bring them in a little bit as long as again they're not going to overlap
00:24:55.280
with you professionally and then we also encourage you to you know i i was at a dinner party at my
00:25:00.920
friend's house a couple months ago and he invited he teaches at a college and he there he invited a
00:25:06.800
security guard there that this woman that he talks to every morning catches up with her you know to
00:25:11.480
learns about her learns about her family she asked after his and he just invited her over that was a
00:25:16.140
totally interesting you know added a different dynamic to a dinner party and opened it up so it's
00:25:21.120
kind of people that you've encountered over life that you've kind of have a good feeling about they
00:25:25.560
want to learn more about bring them in i mean if someone says hey i can't i can't make it that
00:25:29.920
tuesday you know my my college roommate's in town and man you wouldn't like him he's a
00:25:35.060
uptight investment banker libertarian it's like well if he can hang out with himself
00:25:39.340
like if you think he's cool invite him along let's have that discussion so you kind of look
00:25:44.080
for opportunities that bring in one or two people that might be wild cards as long as they're vetted
00:25:49.300
in the sense that someone vouches for them or you have a good feeling about them and then that's the
00:25:53.480
mix because that's the only way we're going to learn is if we hear some different opinions all
00:25:57.540
right well so we so far we've been talking a lot about like when to do a dinner party the type of
00:26:02.060
people we haven't talked about the food but you guys say in the book like the food is like the
00:26:06.360
least important thing at a dinner party why is that it's a dinner dinner is food why is it the least
00:26:11.200
important part of it well i think it's something you got to earlier in our conversation um which is
00:26:17.020
people have anxiety about food that's i think one of the reasons they don't throw dinner parties
00:26:20.820
is they look at instagram and they see all these beautiful meals or they watch the food network
00:26:24.600
and it's like guess what like this is basically social bribery you're inviting people over for a free meal
00:26:29.940
and you're applying them with booze like don't worry about it they're going to be happy to be there
00:26:33.880
and so we think that this is a point of anxiety so we just like take it on his face which is like this
00:26:38.660
is the least important part the part the important part of a dinner party is the atmosphere is conversation
00:26:43.740
is the mix of people that are there and yes there are some things some rules of the road for food which
00:26:49.240
we unpack in this chapter but don't psych yourself out if you're not a cook we give you some very basic
00:26:54.840
recipes and give you some strategies for how to find other things that you might want to cook
00:26:59.180
but you know if you're at someone's house and you and you get a well let's put it this way if you're
00:27:04.320
a brunch and someone brought you your eggs and you ordered them fried and they came scrambled you
00:27:09.920
would complain or if it was over salted you would complain if you're at someone's house and they serve
00:27:14.400
you say uh pasta and it's a little bit overcooked are you going to complain no you're not going to
00:27:19.820
complain you're just going to like maybe eat a couple bites and move to the vegetables or something
00:27:23.520
like that because you're just kind of overjoyed to be at someone's house you didn't go there for
00:27:28.560
the ideal meal you went there for the event and so yeah we say it's the least important part of the
00:27:33.640
party because getting people into your home kind of creating an atmosphere of camaraderie having some
00:27:38.860
good music some lighting some other things we talk about the food itself isn't isn't the main reason
00:27:43.860
that that people are there so keep it super simple like a pasta dish roast is like you know meat is like
00:27:49.880
super simple to cook yeah we advocate for that we have we call it i call it stunt meat and this is
00:27:54.400
something i do all the time which is i'm having a bunch of people over i get um a big like roast or
00:28:00.220
i get a you could get a chicken or you could get a you know a ham you know i've done this every way
00:28:05.100
and if you're a cook you know that this is a trick because ultimately a ham is you put a glaze on it you
00:28:09.940
score it and you throw that thing in the oven and you kind of forget about it for hours and that
00:28:14.060
leaves you time to kind of quickly clean your house and get ready for for the other for arrivals
00:28:18.060
but when you bring it out it's very dramatic looking to have a roast um it is uh non-cooks
00:28:24.540
are like oh my god this person's a genius but even real cooks are like whoa that that guy went
00:28:29.440
all out it just has a sense of occasion about it and then you know you carve it and there's just
00:28:34.080
tons of it you know dorothy parker has a quote about ham eternity is a ham between two people
00:28:40.140
because you would just eat it forever leftovers and on and on but a ham with 12 people that's an
00:28:45.160
occasion like that that's a party so yeah we have some meats but we we do advocate for keeping it
00:28:49.660
simple if you're going to mix it up with a new appetizer or some 11 ingredient thingamabob we would
00:28:54.640
say do that for the first course or like a nibble or a nosh when people arrive but i wouldn't like bet
00:29:01.320
the house and all your time and all your ingredients on on and uh like a real alpha entree like if you've
00:29:08.060
never made paella now is not the time to make paella you know like if you've never made you know if
00:29:12.680
you've never made this uh 11 ingredient vegan to pino like now is not the time to do that either
00:29:17.940
just stick to some basic things veggie starch protein and you'll be fine awesome so okay besides the
00:29:25.740
food giving you anxiety giving people anxiety why they don't do it the other part that gives people
00:29:29.800
anxiety is just like even just inviting people over because you're afraid like you're you're going
00:29:34.960
back to like middle school when you you ask someone to a party you ask a girl out and you're
00:29:39.500
afraid they're going to say no why should that why should people not worry about that
00:29:43.720
i mean uh you know we just i guess the truth is like forget about it's the idea of like remember
00:29:50.060
you're basically giving people a gift like in a really even coarse terms you could just say you're
00:29:56.640
inviting someone to a dinner party like you're giving them like hundreds of dollars at of of value
00:30:01.480
for free it would be a real market market way to look at it but it just in a general way it's like
00:30:06.800
who cares people are busy you got you can't you got to let the water flow off your back if people
00:30:11.700
can't make it they're adults and they'll tell you they can't make it but people are going are going
00:30:16.060
to come and part of the rule we have an invitation section and one of the things is like with there
00:30:20.740
are various things we we we think we're pro spontaneous dinner party if you're talking to
00:30:25.040
people at an event at a concert and you're like hey what are you doing this saturday you should go for
00:30:29.340
it if the impulse moves you and then figure it out figure it out later like invite first and figure
00:30:33.840
out the rest of the guest list later but also you know you can invite people the difference between
00:30:37.920
a dinner party and other parties like a barbecue or a pool party is you do tell people they have
00:30:42.560
to tell you they're coming only the people you invite can arrive they can't bring a gang of four
00:30:47.160
people and so there you tell people when it begins there's like a relatively you know it starts at
00:30:53.660
seven we let you come as late as 7 30 but there's some formal structure that once people agree
00:30:58.560
they're going to commit to it they're going to get a babysitter or they're going to actually
00:31:03.100
mark it on their calendar and that means the likelihood of them arriving is much much higher
00:31:08.360
than if you're like oh yeah we're going to open up our house and have a barbecue on saturday well
00:31:12.660
that's cool and people might show up a hundred people might show up five people might show up
00:31:16.820
a dinner party you have you know maybe 10 people are coming and then if two of them back out you can
00:31:21.840
fill up that slot but i i guess there's a frame and and it's and it's such a fun treat for people
00:31:27.740
that you're going to get people to agree and they're going to commit once once they commit they're
00:31:32.460
going to follow through right yeah that's the thing i when we've had dinner parties like people
00:31:36.760
are waiting to be asked i think oftentimes you're people are afraid to ask just like oh no they don't
00:31:40.800
want no one wants to get invited they're they're too busy it's like no no one's busy everyone's at
00:31:44.960
home watching netflix not doing anything they're waiting for somebody to give them a plan so be that
00:31:52.240
guy be the guy that makes that person exactly people love it and look if it's a couple like even if
00:31:56.900
one of them is like i don't want to by the time they arrive like they're they're going to enjoy
00:32:01.480
themselves like because it's just like go ahead you if you're if you're being grumpy like you go sit
00:32:06.220
in a chair have a drink and i bet you you'll open up if the dinner party is being hosted correctly
00:32:11.080
but for a lot of people you're right it's like a gift it's like whoa i had like no plans and now
00:32:15.880
all i have to do is drive over to you know brendan's house and at around seven and just like sit back
00:32:21.460
and enjoy myself like sure let's do it another thing people like don't do dinner parties is like
00:32:27.980
they don't want to have to clean their house or they're afraid people are going to make fun of
00:32:31.580
their house because it's not properly decorated what's your take on that i mean again that this
00:32:36.700
is an uh this you know keep in mind you're giving people something free they've already agreed to come
00:32:42.200
join you they're not looking to punish you and why a dinner party is better than brunch like they're
00:32:47.460
not expecting perfection what makes true friendship it's your it's your it's your buddy who is honest
00:32:53.380
with you you know about about their lives that you know they're vulnerable to an extent like that's
00:32:57.780
really what kind of creates like the real um a glue of friendships and bonds and so your home like
00:33:04.240
don't sweat it the only thing that you really need to do is if you have no time doing anything else
00:33:09.040
is like you have to clean your bathroom don't be don't be an animal and in fact that's the one
00:33:13.280
place people are going to be alone under bright lighting at some point in the evening
00:33:17.380
so make sure that's dialed in but also might want to peek in your medicine cabinet because one of
00:33:21.740
your guests might so make sure everything in there is fine with you're fine with other people seeing
00:33:26.420
and then after that look the kitchen can stay a mess we actually think coming into like seeing that
00:33:32.040
kitchen that people are cooking in has this sense of industry it has this sense of fun and you know
00:33:37.420
that's often where a lot of the early parties happening someone's spinning around they're
00:33:41.120
frying this they're doing that bottles are open boxes are open that's actually kind of cool and fun
00:33:46.560
and then you know your living room we just need all you need and this is one of the dinner party
00:33:51.480
rules is a table this is why buffets and potlucks aren't really dinner parties because you need a
00:33:56.320
table that everyone can sit around that's where conversation can happen so you have one clean
00:34:00.020
table you know do a quick scan of the room make sure you don't have like a bicycle part on your
00:34:04.460
cordenza or like you know last year's um you know backpackers guide to vietnam or something laying
00:34:10.600
around and then the lighting the less the better this is basically like an instagram filter on your
00:34:16.260
life everyone prefers dim lighting it makes them all look younger it adds a sense of romance but
00:34:21.960
and then pile the coats on on uh on a bed and that that's all you got to do all you got to do so what
00:34:27.620
do you do after you eat right like food's been eaten there's conversations happen like what do you do
00:34:32.140
you play what do you play charades you dance you just keep talking i mean what's your i mean d all the
00:34:37.240
above we we have a different we have a couple paths to what you can do at the at the end of a
00:34:40.900
dinner party you know sometimes like the table's cleared some desserts come out and that can be as
00:34:45.860
simple as like just three chocolate bars you know broken open and shared with people but it can be
00:34:50.960
more complex if if you we we allow you to outsource a cake if you need to but once that's done and people
00:34:55.940
are coffee i think that this is an underrated part of the dinner parties in fact the reason i have
00:35:00.580
dinner parties is for the moment you are talking about right now which is everyone now is like you know
00:35:05.600
maybe a little bit of loose they've had some good conversation they've taken everyone's measure
00:35:09.040
there's been some music playing in the background this is like the delicious art of being an adult
00:35:14.000
you have a babysitter at home you don't have to go to work the next day or if you do you've already
00:35:17.560
adjusted for it in your mind and we say say you know savor these moments and you can go a couple
00:35:24.020
different ways one is everyone just if you have enough space they paddle into the living room
00:35:27.900
and they're just laying on the couch and you're playing music and if people want to have a cigarette
00:35:32.080
they can do that if people want something more than a cigarette if the host is willing they can
00:35:36.480
do that too now would be the time sit back finish the wine and this is where really deep conversation
00:35:42.220
can go on you can you can follow through on things or as you mentioned there there are a bunch of games
00:35:47.740
that can be played we are a little less pro parlor game i am because i feel like they're a little bit
00:35:53.340
pushy because if you don't play them you feel ostracized but we can see the value in them if
00:35:57.620
everyone's gaming we have a list of games people can play and then i'm a big advocate for the i call
00:36:03.740
it the the pdpdp which is the post dinner party dance party and and i think that this is again for
00:36:10.000
adults who don't you know why why should we live a life where we only dance and we go to someone's
00:36:14.440
wedding anymore you know but i'm not going to go to the club anymore like i like i don't go out
00:36:19.300
dancing unfortunately so this is a space to do it if you have the right crowd you've been playing music
00:36:24.800
and we have a whole chapter about playlists and music etc this would be the time maybe like phase
00:36:29.420
in some maybe upbeat music and you can you can do a little dancing this is the beauty of not being
00:36:34.760
at a brunch spot where people are ushering you out the door because they need to flip the table to make
00:36:38.560
more money and you see 35 people giving you the death glare from behind the host stand this is the
00:36:43.820
time where you can just lounge you can dance you can pick up a guitar you can you can you can do
00:36:49.840
whatever you want it's a golden moment well so you said dinner parties are sort of open into no end
00:36:54.060
time what if you got an early day the next day how do you give people the hint that you know it's
00:37:00.320
time to time to head out i mean i mean you should have you should you should have thought about that
00:37:05.260
before you had your dinner parties but things do come up you're having this on a thursday and all
00:37:08.220
a sudden projects do you know we actually in the book we have a flow chart called should i kick these
00:37:13.320
guys out and it's very elaborate and and we you know i would refer you directly to that i can't
00:37:18.360
completely do it justice here but the truth and but the rules of the flow chart are kind of what we've
00:37:23.020
talked about like is it a weekday it's like uh it's like no all right well is it after midnight
00:37:28.860
no like what you know like it gives you paths to like you know maybe you should keep this party going
00:37:33.820
but again that's the host they can close it you're not you don't have to be a victim to someone else
00:37:38.660
who doesn't want to go face their home life again gotcha well hey brendan this has been a great
00:37:42.880
conversation is there any where people can go to learn more about the book in your work yeah they can
00:37:46.640
go to uh brunchishell.com it's our website that talks about the book and it also kind of talks
00:37:52.580
about some of the other projects rico and i are working on i'm also executive producer of the
00:37:56.560
parish review podcast right now it also sends you to the dinner party download our podcast uh that
00:38:02.160
gives background on on to prepare you for your dinner party so yeah brunchishell.com is where they
00:38:07.040
can learn more fantastic brendan noonum thank you so much your time it's been a pleasure hey thanks
00:38:10.880
so much for having me my guest here is brendan noonum he is the co-author of the book brunch
00:38:14.800
is hell it's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere also check out his podcast
00:38:18.960
the dinner party download where you get more insights and advice on how to host a killer
00:38:22.820
dinner party also check out our show notes at aom.is slash brunch is hell where you find
00:38:27.320
links to resources where you delve deeper into this topic
00:38:29.700
well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast
00:38:44.580
for more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness website
00:38:47.620
from art of manliness.com and if you enjoy the podcast i'd appreciate it if you take a minute
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