The Art of Manliness - #391： Micronutrients, Genetics, and Preventing Age-Related Diseases

00:00:00.000 This episode of the Art of Manly's podcast is brought to you in part by Flint and Tinder

00:00:03.140 exclusively at Huckberry.com. Guys, it's September. It's still hot. It was like 96

00:00:07.820 degrees a day. Felt like 105 here in Oklahoma, but I'm looking forward to fall when things start

00:00:12.320 cooling down and I can start busting out my fall wardrobe. And a big part of my fall wardrobe is

00:00:17.060 made up of Flint and Tinder. You can find it at Huckberry.com. Flint and Tinder, all this stuff

00:00:21.160 is made in America and they have just classic staples, guy staples like Henley's jeans. They

00:00:26.620 got the 10-year hoodie, which is one of my favorite hoodies. They've got buttoned down

00:00:30.220 Oxfords. They got a wax trucker jacket. It's one of my favorites. Go check it out. Go to

00:00:34.780 Huckberry.com. Check out the Flint and Tinder collection. Start gearing up for fall. Definitely

00:00:39.420 check out the 10-year hoodie. Definitely check out their wax trucker jacket and definitely check out

00:00:42.820 the jeans and Henley's from Flint and Tinder. And if it's your first time purchasing from Huckberry,

00:00:46.820 use code ART15 at checkout to get 15% off your first purchase. So Huckberry.com, code ART15 to get

00:00:54.380 15% off your first purchase from Huckberry. Make sure to check out Flint and Tinder and stock up

00:00:58.740 for fall. This episode of the Art of Manliness podcast is brought to you by Spotify. Spotify is

00:01:03.300 making it easy for you to stream this podcast and many others like it on your mobile device,

00:01:07.260 desktop app, and smart speaker. Just open the app on your mobile device or desktop,

00:01:10.940 click on the browse channel, then click on the podcast section. And while you're there,

00:01:14.460 make sure to subscribe to the Art of Manliness podcast. You'll be able to stay thoroughly

00:01:17.620 entertained during your commute to work, drive home, and downtime thanks to Spotify. So go check it out.

00:01:24.380 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. Now when you think

00:01:40.320 about diet and nutrition, you probably think about carbs, proteins, and fats. These are

00:01:44.160 macronutrients and they play a huge role in athletic performance and whether you gain or lose weight.

00:01:48.760 But food is also full of micronutrients that are vital to your health and wellbeing. Unfortunately,

00:01:52.900 most modern people overlook micronutrients and consequently are deficient in them. My guest

00:01:57.240 today has spent her career researching the ill effects of micronutrient deficiencies and what

00:02:00.940 you can do to optimize them. Her name is Dr. Rhonda Patrick and she's a biomedical scientist. 0.96

00:02:04.980 And today on the show, Rhonda and I discuss micronutrients, what they are, what they do,

00:02:08.740 and why we're not getting enough of them. We then dig into her research into nutritional genomics or 0.95

00:02:13.580 how genetics affects how your body processes nutrition. We end our conversation discussing how

00:02:17.680 stressing yourself with cold exposure, heat exposure, and fasting can boost your health.

00:02:22.000 After the show's over, check out the show notes at aom.is slash optimize. And Dr. Patrick joins me

00:02:27.040 now via Skype. Dr. Rhonda Patrick, welcome to the show. Thank you. So tell us a bit about

00:02:49.020 your background and your area of focus when it comes to health, diet, nutrition, genetics, et cetera.

00:02:55.900 So I have a PhD in biomedical science. I have done research on aging. I've done research on metabolism,

00:03:07.540 cancer metabolism, and I've done research on micronutrients, which are about 30 to 40 essential

00:03:14.700 vitamins, minerals that we must get from our diet because they're essential for life and how

00:03:19.900 micronutrients are really important for health and for preventing certain biomarkers for age-related

00:03:27.400 diseases. So I've kind of done a broad range of research, everything from metabolism to cancer

00:03:34.520 to just looking at the aging process itself.

00:03:37.580 And you've also tapped into looking in genetics as well, how genetics interacts with all these

00:03:43.480 things.

00:03:44.360 Right. The field's sort of called nutrigenomics. And that area of research of mine has not been

00:03:49.880 something I've actually published on, but is an interest that I've sort of just researched because

00:03:54.700 I'm very interested in that field for selfish reasons and just because it's a fascinating field how

00:04:02.240 people respond differently to different types of diets, to different macronutrients and micronutrients

00:04:09.040 and things like that.

00:04:10.740 So let's talk about micronutrients. We've had guest nutritionists on the show just to discuss

00:04:14.480 macronutrients, carbs, fats, proteins. And your focus, as you said, is micronutrient deficiencies

00:04:20.500 and their roles in age-related diseases. So you mentioned micronutrients. There's 30 of them.

00:04:26.080 What are they and what are some of the big ones that play a big role in our health and possibly

00:04:30.880 disease prevention? Well, you know, they're 30 to 40, somewhere around there. And they are

00:04:36.400 essential vitamins and minerals, you know, like magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin K, things like that.

00:04:42.880 We have to get them from our diet because without them you die. Recommended daily allowances have

00:04:48.560 been set for these vitamins and minerals to ensure that we get adequate amounts of them.

00:04:53.560 But the way the RDA is set is that studies are done in animals where animals are made deficient

00:04:59.640 of a certain micronutrient. So for example, a B vitamin. And once the deficiency level,

00:05:06.260 you know, causes an animal to die, the RDA is set a couple of standard deviations above that.

00:05:11.700 So essentially it's just the RDAs are just to sort of maintain, you know, normal health just to make

00:05:17.500 sure that, you know, people don't have such a deficiency that they get sick and die. So that's

00:05:23.700 kind of, you know, important to understand because we don't really know what levels are needed to

00:05:30.320 prevent and stave off, for example, diseases of aging. But with that said, there's a variety of

00:05:36.240 micronutrients that are really important for disease prevention. For example, magnesium. Magnesium

00:05:43.320 is an important mineral. It's actually found at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. And chlorophyll is

00:05:51.080 what give plants their green color. So magnesium is found in plants, you know, leafy green plants.

00:05:57.340 And it's a cofactor for enzymes, which means basically enzymes in your body are what are

00:06:03.860 running your metabolism. They're running a variety of processes. And these enzymes require certain

00:06:09.980 cofactors, which are, you know, vitamins and minerals to make sure they run, you know, properly.

00:06:15.200 And so magnesium is required for cofactor that repairs damage to DNA. And DNA damage actually is

00:06:24.880 a precursor to mutations that can lead to cancer, to, you know, mutations that just accelerate the

00:06:30.940 aging process in general. So when you don't get enough magnesium, you start to get more and more

00:06:35.600 DNA damage. And as decades sort of pass on, you eventually can acquire more and more mutations

00:06:40.940 that lead to cancer. So that's just, you know, one example. Folate's another one. Folate's also

00:06:47.220 found in dark leafy green vegetables. And folate's required every time you're going to make a new cell,

00:06:54.980 you have to make new DNA. Well, you need folate to make a precursor to make new DNA. So every time

00:07:01.700 you're going to make a new cell in your liver or your kidney or your heart or your brain, you need

00:07:06.120 folate. And it's been shown actually that if you have deficiency in folate, it can be similar to

00:07:12.980 actually standing underneath ionizing radiation in that it damages your DNA because you don't have

00:07:19.740 that precursor that you need to make it. So your body kind of like does this weird thing where it

00:07:24.220 incorporates something else that's not supposed to be there and it causes damage. So that's another

00:07:28.820 example. You know, there's other examples. Omega-3 fatty acids are really important. You know, studies

00:07:34.600 have shown that people with the highest omega-3 fatty acid intake have like a 9% reduced all-cause

00:07:40.400 mortality, which means they're 9% less likely to die early from cardiovascular disease or cancer or

00:07:48.160 Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's disease. So those are some examples of important micronutrients for

00:07:54.280 health. Vitamin D is also another one. But vitamin D is not something that's typically consumed from

00:08:00.560 diet. It's actually made from UVB radiation when the sun hits our skin. But the problem is a lot of

00:08:08.420 people now are wearing sunscreens, which blocks UVB radiation, which means you don't make vitamin D

00:08:13.500 when you're in the sun. Also, just being indoors a lot, you know, people are in their offices and the

00:08:18.900 cubicles, their other, you know, computer screens, spend less time outside. So vitamin D deficiency has

00:08:25.400 become a little more common than it was, you know, a few decades ago when people spent a lot more time

00:08:30.720 outside. Vitamin D is extremely important for a lot of processes. In fact, about 5% of the human

00:08:37.260 genome, you know, is regulated by vitamin D, which actually gets converted into a steroid hormone. So

00:08:43.480 it's not just a vitamin. It actually gets converted into a hormone inside the body. So that's another

00:08:49.640 example of a really important micronutrient. So you're talking about deficiencies. Is

00:08:55.200 micronutrient deficiency a problem in our modern age or are certain segments of the population more

00:09:01.160 susceptible to micronutrient deficiencies? Because like most food is like, you know, fortified and

00:09:05.220 things like that or most processed foods. Right. Yeah. So actually, I mentioned the RDAs and

00:09:10.920 there's a lot of nutritional health and examination surveys that have been done that have found,

00:09:17.200 for example, in the United States, at least about 70% of the population does not have adequate levels

00:09:22.800 of vitamin D. About 60% of the U.S. population does not have adequate levels of vitamin E. Vitamin

00:09:29.540 E is found in foods like nuts, avocados, olives, olive oil. About 45% of the U.S. population has

00:09:36.140 inadequate levels of magnesium. Again, magnesium is in dark leafy greens. 35% of the population has

00:09:42.540 inadequate levels of vitamin K. Vitamin K is also found in dark leafy greens. Vitamin A,

00:09:48.140 so 34% of the U.S. population does not have adequate levels of vitamin A. So you get the point.

00:09:54.280 There are these, you know, inadequacies, which are not quite deficiency. I mean, when you get to real

00:10:01.420 deficiency, you can start to have acute health problems crop up. But inadequacy still means you're

00:10:07.500 not getting an adequate level of the vitamin or the mineral. So we do know that that is the case

00:10:13.660 in the United States, which really means people are not eating enough of their leafy greens or not

00:10:18.100 eating enough of their, you know, of the healthy foods, healthy nuts and avocados and things like

00:10:23.220 that. We do know that people that are overweight and obese tend to be the most deficient, have the

00:10:30.020 most micronutrient inadequacies because those people that are obese and overweight also tend to eat a diet

00:10:36.340 that is micronutrient poor and more rich in like refined carbohydrates and refined sugars and

00:10:43.200 processed foods and things that may have a lot of calories, may have a lot of sugar and fat, but

00:10:48.680 don't necessarily have a lot of micronutrients. I was going to say, can you just take a

00:10:52.180 multivitamin to make up the deficiency or is that not adequate enough?

00:10:56.700 You know, so taking a multivitamin, you know, may help sort of serve as like an insurance to make

00:11:03.400 sure that you're, you know, at least, it certainly has been shown in studies that people that are

00:11:08.960 deficient that take a multivitamin, they can bring their levels up to a more adequate level in some

00:11:14.160 cases, or at least better than they were. But of course, it's best if you can eat a varied diet,

00:11:19.940 you know, a diet that's, you know, rich in a variety of different vegetables and fruits,

00:11:24.800 because those are, you know, very good sources of micronutrients. And also fish is a great source of

00:11:31.740 omega-3 fatty acids. But, you know, a multivitamin, I don't know if it would solve the

00:11:37.000 problem, but it certainly does seem to help, at least according to some studies that have been

00:11:40.620 done. So we're talking a lot about, you know, we need adequate micronutrient consumption to

00:11:45.840 stave off certain diseases. But like, you know, we're living in an age where everyone wants to

00:11:49.760 optimize, like optimize everything. So like, let's say someone like is on top of their micronutrient

00:11:55.400 game, they're getting out in the sun, they're taking magnesium, they're drinking green smoothies,

00:12:01.300 whatever, every day. Like, is that going to like provide any benefit? Like, is there such thing

00:12:06.160 as too much of a good thing? Or is it sort of diminishing returns as you consume more micronutrients?

00:12:13.360 Well, it definitely depends on the micronutrient we're talking about. If you're talking about too

00:12:17.400 much of a good thing, you know, some of the fat soluble vitamins like vitamin D, vitamin A,

00:12:22.620 you know, you can get too much of those. And that's certainly something, you know, to be aware

00:12:26.960 of them, you don't want to mega dose or overdose on some of these vitamins like vitamin D or vitamin

00:12:31.940 A. But, you know, the question is, how much of these micronutrients do we need to stave off age

00:12:40.000 related diseases? And as I mentioned, you know, the way these RDAs are set, they're set on preventing,

00:12:45.700 you know, animals from dying, and going a couple standard deviations above that and saying, okay,

00:12:51.440 well, that's how much we need to make sure humans aren't going to like get sick and die from

00:12:55.040 a deficiency in a certain micronutrient. But what we don't know, you know, is, well,

00:12:59.800 how much of these micronutrients like magnesium are needed to prevent DNA damage? You know,

00:13:05.200 so a lot of metabolic pathways require micronutrients, but some of these metabolic

00:13:10.980 pathways are essential for like short-term survival. So, for example, I've already mentioned

00:13:14.860 magnesium. You know, magnesium is required to make and utilize energy. And when that means without

00:13:22.280 magnesium, you can't make energy. And essentially, if you can't make energy, you're eventually going

00:13:26.580 to die. So that's a really important metabolic process that requires magnesium. But magnesium is

00:13:32.480 also required to repair DNA damage. Well, DNA damage isn't going to have any effect on your short-term

00:13:37.960 health. I mean, you can acquire a lot of DNA damage, and it's not going to matter until about 30,

00:13:44.220 40, 50 years later when you start to then get mutations that can lead to cancer.

00:13:49.060 So my former postdoctoral mentor, Dr. Bruce Ames, actually proposed a theory, which he calls

00:13:56.200 triage theory, where those metabolic processes that are required for short-term survival will

00:14:01.160 get their share of the micronutrient first because nature wants you to survive long enough to reproduce

00:14:06.300 and pass on your genes, whereas the processes that are more concerned with long-term maintenance,

00:14:11.260 process involved in, you know, mitigating aging in the long term, they ultimately get neglected.

00:14:16.700 So it's kind of like a strategic rationing of micronutrients. And it's sort of helpful to

00:14:22.220 think about how the body may deal with micronutrient inadequacies. And he's actually

00:14:27.140 published a couple of theoretical studies backing, you know, this idea. But, you know, the reality is

00:14:34.500 that we don't really, really know. We don't have enough empirical evidence to say the RDAs are enough

00:14:40.440 to prevent aging. They're enough to prevent DNA damage or prevent calcification of the arteries

00:14:45.740 or, you know, to prevent this type of insidious damage that leads to age-related diseases.

00:14:52.080 So, you know, I think that the best thing someone can do is at least make sure they're trying to,

00:14:58.160 for sure, meet the RDAs, which, as I mentioned, a large proportion of the U.S. population's not even

00:15:04.460 doing that. But in addition to that, you know, making sure you're getting a nice broad spectrum

00:15:09.840 of, you know, whole foods, you know, a variety of colors of vegetables and a variety of fruits

00:15:16.380 and healthy meats and things like that are, I think, are probably your best bet.

00:15:22.320 Right. So you don't have to do anything crazy. I mean, that's just so funny about health advice.

00:15:25.840 It always comes like, eat good food, sleep well, and exercise. And like, that's all you have to do.

00:15:31.460 I mean, it's kind of the bare minimum and you'll be okay. Yeah, it's pretty much, I mean, that's

00:15:35.580 like the safe thing that we can do right now, right? I mean, until we have, you know, we have

00:15:39.800 more evidence as to what, you know, what else can we do? Right. So you mentioned earlier, you do

00:15:46.760 genomics. Is that genomics, is that the right? Yeah, nutrigenomics. Nutri-genomics. All right. So

00:15:51.980 this is sort of your passion project. And you've got tools on your website, FoundMyFitness,

00:15:57.840 where people can, you know, upload their DNA basically. And you can sort of see which,

00:16:04.020 how your body might respond to different micronutrients. So what role do genetics play

00:16:10.740 in how our body uses both micronutrients, but even macronutrients?

00:16:15.500 It plays a really important role. So, you know, the whole like idea behind nutrigenomics,

00:16:22.400 which is this interaction between genes and diet is that, you know, throughout human history,

00:16:26.960 you know, our diet has been really dictated by where we lived. So according to geography. So

00:16:32.600 when you live in a certain part of the pre-industrialized world, you only had certain

00:16:36.560 foods that were available to you. And so the foods, you know, that were available to you

00:16:41.460 had very different composition, different micronutrients, because the soils are different.

00:16:46.280 So different plants are taking up different micronutrients differently. Also, you know,

00:16:50.620 different macronutrients. You know, some people had access to more animal products. Some people had

00:16:55.040 less access to animal products. So within a given region, it's reasonable that to expect that over

00:17:00.180 time, over multiple generations, people began to adapt to tolerate very different nutrient

00:17:06.280 thresholds, both micronutrients and also macronutrients. I mean, so that's sort of the theory

00:17:11.100 behind the nutrigenomics. But to get, you know, to your question, you know, specifically what role does

00:17:17.540 it play in, for example, the metabolism of micronutrients or macronutrients? We know that

00:17:23.740 there's a variety of variations in genes that regulate both of these things. So for example,

00:17:30.320 one of the probably most well-established findings in this area is how your body responds to saturated

00:17:38.360 fat and in turn, how that affects your cholesterol levels. So there's a gene called APOE that's very

00:17:48.380 important for recycling cholesterol. And about 25% of the population has a version of it called

00:17:55.680 APOE4 that can predispose them to very, very high LDL cholesterol levels. So, you know, people with

00:18:04.240 this version of it have a really high risk for heart disease and they also have a really high risk for

00:18:08.660 Alzheimer's disease. So that's probably one of the best established, you know, genes that regulates

00:18:14.300 cholesterol levels. So I actually became interested in this field because I found out that I had one

00:18:20.680 version of the APOE4. And so I had to really tailor my, my saturated fat intake because saturated fat,

00:18:27.500 which is found in foods like dairy products, butter, very fat, fatty cutting bits of cuts of meat,

00:18:33.920 like pork. And so I found out I had one of one of those copies and I had to, I had to sort of tailor

00:18:40.500 my diet to lower the amount of saturated fat I was taking in. And that really did change my LDL

00:18:45.940 levels. Another really well-established nutrigenomic finding in this area is the omega-3. There's a,

00:18:53.700 there's three different versions of omega-3. One of them is the plant version and the plant version

00:18:57.680 called alpha-linolytic acid can be converted into icosapentaenoic acid, which is usually found in,

00:19:04.660 you know, fish and which then can be converted into the other form, docahexanenoic acid, DHA,

00:19:11.720 which is also found in fish. Well, it turns out that the gene that converts alpha-linolytic,

00:19:17.860 also called ALA into EPA is very, there's variations in it. So some people do it very poorly. For example,

00:19:26.120 they can do it 30% less efficiently. So, so, so, so some people, for example, that are vegetarians,

00:19:32.660 it's actually really important for vegetarians because vegetarians are relying solely on their

00:19:37.760 source of omega-3 from plants, which are flax seeds, chia seeds, microalgae oil. Those are great

00:19:44.440 sources of omega-3, but these, you know, people that are not converting it very well into EPA and DHA

00:19:50.980 have to really know that because then they really can't rely on flax seed or chia seed. They have to

00:19:56.960 rely more on microalgae oil because the microalgae oil already has it in the form of DHA. So that's

00:20:04.280 another one. Vitamin D is another one that's also regulated. Some people don't convert vitamin D3

00:20:09.880 into the steroid hormone very well, the active form of vitamin D. And those people actually,

00:20:15.180 if they're supplementing, may have to take an even a higher dose than other people that don't have that

00:20:19.980 variation would. So I think those are some of the probably best established findings in that area.

00:20:25.840 Yeah. No, I have the vitamin D thing. Like I don't convert it as well.

00:20:30.400 Ah. Have you had your vitamin D levels measured?

00:20:32.840 No. So I just did. I haven't gotten the results yet from my doctor. My mom has done that,

00:20:38.180 gotten the vitamin D, and she's been found deficient even though she was taking a vitamin D

00:20:42.120 supplement. So she actually had to increase her vitamin D. So I'm imagining that there is an issue

00:20:47.900 there of genetics. Yeah. I've had a few friends that have also had that issue where they were taking

00:20:53.320 vitamin D supplements in even quite large doses. And still, that sort of wasn't moving the needle

00:20:59.320 in terms of raising their blood levels of vitamin D. By the way, really adequate levels of vitamin D

00:21:05.140 are considered to be between 40 and 60 nanograms per milliliter because that's associated with

00:21:10.640 the lowest all-cause mortality within like, there's like 33 different studies that have been

00:21:15.400 analyzed that have found that. So typically, when people take a vitamin D supplement, generally speaking,

00:21:20.840 if you don't have the variation that we were talking about, generally, 1,000 IUs of vitamin D

00:21:27.240 will raise blood levels by five nanograms per milliliter. Now, people with that certain

00:21:31.920 variation, that's not the case, and they actually may have to take more. But the only way to know

00:21:36.640 that is to get a blood test and also look at your genes as well. So doing both is really important.

00:21:43.280 We're going to take a quick break for you, Ward, from our sponsors. All right. If you love exploring

00:21:46.080 new products and brands but don't have time to scour the internet looking for them,

00:21:49.280 you have to check out bespokepost.com. Bespoke Post is a subscription club that offers monthly

00:21:53.640 themed boxes curated from unique and upcoming brands from around the world. They've got a wide

00:21:57.540 variety of box themes, style, grooming, cooking, drinking, travel. They got all your bases covered.

00:22:02.040 There's no commitments. They tell you what box you're assigned on the first of each month and

00:22:05.120 you have five days to keep it, switch it or skip it. The box that I got that I really liked was the

00:22:09.100 Refresh Box. It comes with a nice waxed canvas stop kit from Blue Claw and also some hair products

00:22:13.940 from Mitch. Also some other just old school shaving and soap products in it as well. Each

00:22:18.380 subscription box only goes for $45 and it has over $70 worth of goods inside. If you want to figure

00:22:23.880 out which box is good for you, just visit bespokepost.com and answer a few short questions

00:22:27.580 that will help gauge your interest and get a feel for your style. If you want to get 20% off your

00:22:31.780 first purchase of a subscription box, go to bespokepost.com and enter promo code manliness

00:22:36.920 at checkout. Again, 20% off your first box at bespokepost.com. Promo code manliness. Again,

00:22:44.400 20% off bespokepost.com. Promo code manliness. Also by yourmechanic.com. Is there anything worse

00:22:50.280 than sitting in the waiting room of a repair shop or getting the call that your car is going to take

00:22:53.920 two more days to fix and it's going to cost hundreds more than estimated? Well, you need

00:22:57.160 to check out yourmechanic.com. With yourmechanic.com, they send the mechanic right to your home or office.

00:23:02.200 They could be replacing your brake pads right now out in the driveway while, you know, you're doing

00:23:05.820 whatever you're doing at your house. Better yet, at yourmechanic.com, you get a quote up front and it's

00:23:09.820 the actual price you pay. They'll even show you what it could cost if you went to another repair

00:23:13.240 shop somewhere else. And they back up every service with a 12,000 mile, 12 month warranty. Not to

00:23:17.460 mention, they give full background checks to all their mechanics who have 10 years of experience

00:23:20.800 on average. So car won't start, check engine light bugging you, need a brake job, call the day to

00:23:25.420 schedule an appointment, or you can visit yourmechanic.com slash manliness and mechanic will

00:23:29.940 come to your home or office. For a limited time, you'll even save $20 off your first service. Again,

00:23:35.020 yourmechanic.com slash manliness to get that $20 off your first service or call 1-800-701-6230,

00:23:42.800 yourmechanic.com slash manliness. And now back to the show.

00:23:46.260 Yeah. And I also, I mean, I used your tool and I also found that I think I have, I have

00:23:50.020 the saturated fat thing where it increases LDL. So I had to like watch out for saturated fat

00:23:55.560 and that like consuming high levels of fat will make me obese. Like, so, which was interesting

00:24:00.960 because, you know, everyone talks about, I've tried the, you know, paleo or no carb diet and

00:24:06.400 I always got fat and tired doing it. And it was frustrating. It was like, well, look, all these guys

00:24:11.520 online, they're just shredding body fat and I'm just tired and fat.

00:24:16.100 Yeah. That's interesting. You probably had, so there's a variety of different genes that regulate

00:24:20.200 the way your body metabolizes saturated fat. And, you know, FTO is one gene. Another one is the PPAR

00:24:28.180 alpha and gamma. And for people that have a certain variation of that gene, if they have a high

00:24:34.240 saturated fat and low polyunsaturated fat and monounsaturated fat intake, they can have increased

00:24:43.000 obesity risk. They can have increased LDL levels, increased triglycerides, and even increased

00:24:48.940 insulin problems with insulin and glucose, blood glucose levels. So there was a study that was published

00:24:54.560 a couple of years ago that was a really well done study in this field, nutrigenomics, that came out

00:24:59.500 of the Weissman Institute in Israel. And the study basically took 800 people and put continuous

00:25:04.980 glucose monitors on them, which measure blood glucose levels every five minutes. And they gave

00:25:10.520 these people then a variety of different diets. So they gave them either a high fat diet or a high

00:25:16.480 carbohydrate diet, like that were more vegetable kind of carbohydrates and then a high refined

00:25:21.980 carbohydrate diet. And what the study found was that people had various responses in terms of

00:25:27.580 their high blood glucose, depending on their genetics and also their gut microbiome composition.

00:25:32.940 But, you know, so it wasn't like some people were given the fat and their blood glucose levels shot up,

00:25:37.880 even though, you know, fat is very low on the glycemic index because it doesn't have, you know, glucose.

00:25:43.200 You'd think, well, your blood glucose levels shouldn't rise. Well, you know, some people,

00:25:49.060 their blood glucose levels rose really high when they ate dietary fat. And that's because they had

00:25:54.400 certain variations in genes that regulate the way their body processes fat. So that does make a

00:25:59.620 difference. You know, I think it is really important to keep in mind anytime anyone's doing any type of

00:26:04.820 experimental diet, they should always, you know, measure something, you know, before you start the

00:26:10.100 diet, get a lipid panel. So look at your LDL, your HDL, your triglycerides, also measure blood glucose

00:26:16.300 levels before you start the diet and then after you start it so that you can see whether or not

00:26:20.580 this diet's changing your various biomarkers of health in a good or bad way. And if you see things

00:26:26.980 are going in a bad direction, you can then also do, you know, look at your genetics to sort of

00:26:32.880 understand why possibly. So besides things on diet and nutrition, you've also done some research and

00:26:38.920 writing on things that are called hormetic, is that the right word? Hormetic stressors?

00:26:42.960 Uh-huh. So what are hormetic stressors? Well, the concept of hormesis refers to exposing the body

00:26:50.880 to small amounts of stress, which then triggers cellular responses in the body that exceed what

00:26:58.040 is actually needed to compensate for that little bit of stress that you exposed your body to.

00:27:02.880 So there's actually a net positive effect, meaning so some of the cellular pathways that get activated

00:27:09.100 are anti-inflammatory pathways, antioxidant pathways, genes that are important for clearing away damaged

00:27:15.060 cells, genes that activate stem cells. So hormetic stressor is often referred to like as a good type

00:27:22.080 of stress and it can include activities like exercise, heat stress, for example, using a sauna or a hot bath

00:27:29.380 or a steam shower, cold stress. So using like a cold shower or even an ice bath. And even polyphenols found

00:27:36.660 in a variety of plants are referred to as hormetic stressors.

00:27:40.740 Well, let's talk about the heat stress. So I've read some of the things you've put out there about

00:27:45.400 that. So like what are the benefits of exposing yourself to heat via a sauna or a steam bath or a

00:27:50.260 hot bath? Well, a lot of the benefits from the sauna are based off of research from Dr. Yari Laukonen,

00:27:57.180 who is out of Finland and has done some studies on a large number of participants, about 2,000 men

00:28:03.160 that have used the sauna either two to three times a week or four to seven times a week or just one

00:28:09.580 time a week. And what he's found and published multiple studies on is that men that use the sauna

00:28:14.660 two to three times a week have a 27% lower cardiovascular disease risk, 24% lower all-cause

00:28:21.160 mortality risk, 20% lower Alzheimer's disease risk compared to men that only use the sauna one time a

00:28:27.100 week. But when you go up to four to seven times a week, it's even more robust. So for example,

00:28:31.460 those men have a 50% lower cardiovascular disease risk, a 40% lower all-cause mortality

00:28:37.640 and a 66% lower risk for dementia and Alzheimer's disease compared to men that only use it one time

00:28:44.080 a week. So there's a variety of different mechanisms that also been looked at. So for example,

00:28:49.760 Yari has looked at how heat changes the blood vessels and how basically your blood vessels become

00:28:56.720 more pliable and respond better. It increases plasma flow and basically takes a lot of workload off

00:29:04.780 your heart. So basically every time your heart beats to pump blood throughout the body to make

00:29:09.340 sure blood gets to your various organs, including your brain, it has to do less work. So it kind of

00:29:15.220 lowers what's called cardiovascular strain. There's also a lot of studies looking at what are called heat

00:29:20.820 shock proteins, which are activated when your body is exposed to heat. And heat shock proteins have

00:29:26.600 been shown to prevent proteins from forming aggregates and plaques in your arteries and also

00:29:31.940 in your brain, which lead to Alzheimer's disease. So a variety of studies have been done on that and

00:29:37.560 have shown that people that sit in the sauna that is at least 163 degrees Fahrenheit for about 30 minutes,

00:29:44.820 they can activate their heat shock proteins by about 50%. And this lasts for about two days without

00:29:50.740 having to get back in the heat stress. But if you think about it, exercise also is a form of heat

00:29:55.820 stress. You know, when you do exercise, you're elevating your core body temperature. So in a lot of

00:30:00.120 ways, you know, doing something like a sauna or a steam shower or sitting in a hot bath, you know,

00:30:05.680 it elevates your heart rate, you know, to somewhat moderate intensity exercise level. So a lot of the

00:30:13.160 cardiovascular exercise benefits can be had from doing something like sitting in the sauna for 20

00:30:20.700 minutes or so. So that's work that, like I said, a lot of it's coming out of Finland. Interestingly,

00:30:27.020 because we've been talking about genes, there are variations in genes that actually increase the

00:30:33.200 activation of heat shock proteins in people. And very interestingly, people with these certain

00:30:37.860 variations are more likely to live to be 100. Interesting. Well, let's talk about the opposite, 0.97

00:30:43.460 cold exposure. So we've had guests on, Scott Carney, he wrote a book about Wim Hof, sort of cold

00:30:50.160 exposure. But what role, I mean, we know the benefits, there's a lot of them, but what role do

00:30:55.440 genetics play in whether you get those benefits from cold exposure? Well, it depends on the benefits.

00:31:01.840 So, you know, I would say the two main benefits or the most robust, I think I would say most profound

00:31:09.640 physiological responses to cold exposure is one, the robust release of norepinephrine from a part of

00:31:17.060 your brain called the locus coeruleus region. And norepinephrine is really important for focus and

00:31:22.680 attention, vigilance, you know, it also improves mood. So that's one robust, I would say, physiological

00:31:29.320 response to cold. In fact, even people that immerse themselves in 40 degree Fahrenheit cold

00:31:34.640 water for just 20 seconds could increase their norepinephrine by two to threefold. So 200 to 300%

00:31:40.280 over their baseline, which is pretty, pretty good. The other response to cold is the increase in

00:31:47.520 mitochondrial biogenesis, which is basically means you're growing and generating new mitochondria,

00:31:53.440 which are the powerhouse, you know, energy producing powerhouses of the cell. And so this

00:31:59.700 has been shown to happen in adipose tissue and also in muscle tissue. And so this is a really great

00:32:05.500 thing because essentially what's happening is you're, you're replacing, you know, old damaged

00:32:09.700 mitochondria with new healthy young mitochondria. And also when you're making energy, you're releasing

00:32:16.880 heat as a byproduct. So it's actually part of the way your body stays warm. So it's part of the

00:32:23.040 reason why you actually do make more mitochondria when you're exposing yourself to the cold.

00:32:27.740 So genetics does affect one of the processes of ramping up your energy metabolism through a

00:32:34.740 process of just basically taking your mitochondria and uncoupling them. And there's a gene that does

00:32:39.980 this called UCP1. And there's different variations in this gene. And some people have a variation where

00:32:45.020 they do it really well. And so they can actually tolerate cold even better than people that don't have

00:32:50.700 that variation of it because they're able to ramp up their metabolism even more, generate more heat

00:32:56.340 to stay warm. And so they can stay in colder temperatures for longer. And they also have the

00:33:00.960 benefit of burning more fat when they're in the cold. So those, those people are kind of lucky in

00:33:04.940 that regard. Right. Is this the, the, like the brown fat, white fat thing? Yeah, it is exactly. So

00:33:10.260 that's the reason why it's called brown fat is because the, when you, when you make more mitochondria,

00:33:16.300 so I refer to this, it's called mitochondrial biogenesis. And you look at a fat droplet under

00:33:22.440 a microscope, the more mitochondria they have, they look darker in color. And that's why it's

00:33:27.120 often referred to as brown fat. It's essentially just because you have more mitochondria in the fat

00:33:32.320 tissue, in the adipose tissue. That's why, that's why it's called brown fat. Yeah. Using the tool,

00:33:37.360 I found out that I don't like, I don't make brown fat or like whatever. That doesn't happen to me.

00:33:42.060 Like I don't, I won't lose weight. If I take cold showers, I won't lose fat. So you don't do that as

00:33:46.640 well. I don't do it as well. Right. I don't do it as well, but I still do. Cause I mean, it feels

00:33:50.600 good. I mean, that's why I like to do it. Yeah, I actually do. I like taking a cold shower before

00:33:57.080 like a big event or if I'm going to give a talk or something that sort of usually gives me a little

00:34:01.740 bit of anxiety. I'll take a really cold shower for as long as I can. And I really find that it helps,

00:34:07.760 helps lower my anxiety and, and, uh, helps me focus and just like, you know, stay focused for

00:34:13.400 longer and feel good. So, you know, I, I, I like the cold showers. Definitely. I'm a big sauna fan,

00:34:18.700 but I really do like the cold showers. So, uh, fasting, is that a hormetic stressor as well?

00:34:23.360 Fasting is also, yeah. Fasting is another hormetic stressor. In fact, a lot of, a lot of the,

00:34:29.380 the benefits of like more prolonged fast, which are longer fast, you know, three, three to four days,

00:34:34.500 three to five days in humans. A lot of that research has been done by Dr. Walter Longa at USC

00:34:39.940 and he has shown, he's done studies in both animals and humans. And he has shown in, in animal

00:34:45.980 studies that basically a prolonged fast causes whole organs to shrink during the fast and then

00:34:53.520 literally regrow after the fast, which is quite phenomenal. If you think about it, like your liver

00:34:59.680 just shrinking and also it happens other organs as well. And even, even parts of the brain.

00:35:05.160 So he's showing this, you know, these organs are shrinking and regrowing. And what he's found

00:35:09.220 is that what ends up happening is that the fasting is a stress that causes any cells that are damaged

00:35:17.120 that already have, you know, that are not healthy cells. They're more damaged. Those cells die by a

00:35:22.940 process called apoptosis. And, and then this happens during the fast because this, the fast is such a

00:35:29.160 strong stress. It, you know, it causes those damaged cells to die, but the non-damaged cells,

00:35:34.620 the cells that are healthier, it increases all these stress response pathways in them. So they

00:35:39.540 make more antioxidants, more anti-inflammatory molecules. They just become more robust and

00:35:43.820 stronger. And the damaged cells that die, what ends up happening is it causes stem cells to become

00:35:49.440 activated. And during the refeeding phase, so after you're done fasting and you start to, you know,

00:35:54.820 eat again, the stem cells start to make new cells to replenish whatever cells were lost.

00:36:01.400 So that's where the shrinking and then regrowing of organs comes from. It also, you know, you have

00:36:06.500 better metabolism and things like that. But I find the, the clearing away of damaged cells and then

00:36:12.100 essentially replenishing them with, you know, healthy new cells. I find that to be a very interesting,

00:36:19.060 you know, area of research. And also it has lots and lots of implications for many diseases,

00:36:24.020 as well as just aging in general. Yeah. I think I've seen studies where

00:36:28.040 reduced calories can increase longevity in mice, at least. They've seen that.

00:36:33.700 Right. And this is sort of another, this is sort of another way of doing, instead of having a

00:36:37.960 reduced calories all the time, you just kind of do this, you know, three or four day fast,

00:36:42.920 you know, every so often, depending, you know, depending on what your health status is. You know,

00:36:47.600 some people that are really unhealthy and obese may have to do that more often and other,

00:36:52.280 others that are not. So, you know, that are already healthy, maybe doing it once a quarter

00:36:56.360 or something like that may be a nice way to just sort of clear away all the damaged cells. And

00:37:00.060 it's kind of like taking out the garbage, you know, getting rid of the bad stuff and replenishing it

00:37:04.060 with new healthy cells. So does the fast have to be three to four days to get the benefits? I mean,

00:37:08.680 is there a benefit for like fasting 16 hours or 24 hours?

00:37:12.700 Well, in terms of the stem cell activation, clearing away the damaged cells, Walter has shown

00:37:17.020 that the prolonged fast. So the three, four or five days is important, but he also has what's

00:37:22.440 called a fasting mimicking diet, which is a five day diet and it's a low calorie and it has a certain

00:37:28.960 macronutrient composition. So there's, you know, so you can only get a certain amount of your calories

00:37:34.240 from fat, a certain amount from carbohydrates and a certain amount from protein. And he's shown that

00:37:39.580 in a lot of ways that can mimic a water fast. So, so that's, that's a lot of work that he's done,

00:37:45.400 but yeah, there are, there are a lot of benefits from doing, you know, just a 14, 16, 24 hour

00:37:51.760 intermittent fast as well. I actually practice something called time restricted eating where I

00:37:56.480 eat all of my food within, I try to eat it within a 10 hour time window so that I'm fasting for 14

00:38:01.460 hours every night. So you're sort of like getting this, you know, 14 hour intermittent fast on a

00:38:06.200 daily basis. And studies have shown, and this is a lot of work that's been done by Dr. Satch and

00:38:10.760 Panda at the Salk Institute. And, and that has shown, you know, to really improve metabolism in

00:38:17.840 general, just to make, make your metabolism runs better. And so that's something, you know,

00:38:22.800 definitely I would say a lot of benefits, but you're not going to be getting the, the robust

00:38:26.580 clearing away of damaged cells and regeneration from just doing a short fast like that. But there

00:38:31.700 are benefits just for normal metabolism, you know, that's important. So I think that I personally

00:38:37.420 think both I'd like to, you know, I'd like to start doing a little bit more of the more prolonged

00:38:42.020 fast. And I think Dr. Walter Longo's fasting mimicking diet's nice because a lot of people

00:38:46.880 don't want to do a water fast. It's a, it's a really hard stressor and, you know, it's kind of

00:38:52.040 daunting to some people to, to like not eat for three or four days. So the fasting mimicking diet,

00:38:58.180 which essentially is, like I said, it's a, it's a, there's a calorie cap. So, you know,

00:39:03.780 it's about 700 to 750 calories a day. And, you know, 44% of those calories come from fat,

00:39:10.140 47% come from carbohydrate and about nine, nine percent come from protein. And, and so he's got

00:39:15.740 this whole diet that sort of mimics that, that water fast and, and, and, and basically activates

00:39:21.860 a lot of the same cellular pathways and have a lot of the same responses. At least that's, that's what

00:39:26.560 he's, his preliminary data has shown. All right. So that's not for the faint of heart then.

00:39:30.460 Cause I was thinking like, as a parent, man, that, or like, you know, you're a working parent

00:39:34.320 three to five days without food. I think I'm already, you'd go bonkers.

00:39:39.000 Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think the, the fasting mimicking diet seems like a lot,

00:39:44.640 definitely going to be more compliant where it's, you know, people will be, it'll be a lot easier

00:39:48.540 for people. And I know a lot of people that have done it. I haven't done it yet just because

00:39:52.420 when I started to get into this, I got pregnant and now I'm, you know, at the point where I'm

00:39:57.300 breastfeeding. And so I'm not like, I don't want to do any sort of fasting

00:40:00.100 crazy stuff, you know, until I'm, I'm done with, with that whole process. But, um, I, I am sort

00:40:07.360 of interested in trying it out soon. I'm definitely going to try that out.

00:40:10.480 Well, Rhonda, this has been a great conversation. We literally scratched the surface of what you've

00:40:14.580 written about. Where can people go to learn more about your work?

00:40:17.460 Certainly they can go to my website, which is foundmyfitness.com, foundmyfitness, all one word,

00:40:22.100 no spaces. I also have an iTunes podcast, which you can find by searching my name or also by just

00:40:27.420 searching foundmyfitness, all one word. I'm also foundmyfitness on all social media platforms,

00:40:32.960 Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.

00:40:34.800 Awesome. Well, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure.

00:40:37.720 Thank you.

00:40:38.620 My guest here is Dr. Rhonda Patrick. She's the founder and owner of foundmyfitness. You can find

00:40:42.620 that at foundmyfitness.com where you can find all the episodes of her podcast as well as take that

00:40:47.200 genetic test we were talking about to see how your body interacts with different nutrients. Also check

00:40:51.220 out our show notes at aom.is slash optimize where you can find links to resources. We can delve deeper

00:40:56.100 into this topic. Well, that wraps up another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. For

00:41:12.040 more manly tips and advice, make sure to check out the Art of Manliness website at

00:41:15.100 artofmanliness.com. And if you enjoy the show, please give us a review on iTunes or Stitcher.

00:41:19.240 It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, please consider telling a friend or family member

00:41:22.860 about the show if you think they'd get something out of it. As always, thank you for your continued

00:41:26.400 support. And until next time, this is Brett McKay telling you to stay manly.

The Art of Manliness - March 27, 2018

#391： Micronutrients, Genetics, and Preventing Age-Related Diseases

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript