The Art of Manliness - #393： The Importance of Building Your Social Capital

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00:01:28.600 Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition

00:01:31.740 of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:01:33.460 At some point, all of us will likely experience a job loss

00:01:36.060 or some other big life setback.

00:01:37.940 While it can feel like your world is crashing down,

00:01:39.700 there's one asset you'll hopefully have at your disposal

00:01:41.740 which can help you weather the storm,

00:01:43.560 your social circle.

00:01:44.720 My guest today experienced the booing power

00:01:46.300 of relationships firsthand when he lost a job

00:01:48.420 he held for over 10 years.

00:01:49.660 His name is Jordan Harbinger.

00:01:50.740 We've had him on the podcast before.

00:01:52.160 For 11 years, he was the host of the Art of Charm podcast,

00:01:54.340 but recently found himself out of the host chair

00:01:56.400 and without a job.

00:01:57.320 But thanks to the social connections he's built up

00:01:59.100 over the past decade,

00:02:00.240 Jordan was able to quickly get back on his feet

00:02:02.000 and now has a new show.

00:02:03.400 Today on the podcast,

00:02:04.260 Jordan shares what it's like to lose a job

00:02:06.020 you've held for a decade

00:02:07.120 and what specific tactics he used

00:02:08.940 to manage the rollercoaster of emotions

00:02:10.480 that come with that.

00:02:11.400 We then dig into how his social circle

00:02:12.960 was the key asset that helped him

00:02:14.340 get back on his feet quickly

00:02:15.400 and what you can do to start developing

00:02:17.120 your social capital today

00:02:18.260 so it can buoy you up in a time of need.

00:02:20.500 Lots of actionable advice in this episode.

00:02:22.020 You'll want to take notes.

00:02:23.200 After the show's over,

00:02:23.880 check out the show notes at aom.is

00:02:25.720 slash harbinger.

00:02:27.060 And Jordan joins me now via clearcast.io.

00:02:40.440 Jordan Harbinger, welcome back to the show.

00:02:43.320 Thanks for having me on, man.

00:02:44.260 This is always fun.

00:02:46.260 Well, it's been about, I think, a year

00:02:48.140 since we've had you on,

00:02:49.000 but you've gone through some big time changes

00:02:50.780 in that year.

00:02:51.840 What's gone on in the world of Jordan Harbinger?

00:02:53.860 Sure.

00:02:54.260 Sure.

00:02:54.780 So I got married,

00:02:55.940 which was kind of a cool thing

00:02:57.360 that I wish I'd done earlier.

00:02:58.600 After doing it before,

00:02:59.560 it was like, oh gosh,

00:03:00.280 this is such a to-do

00:03:02.060 and it's such a big thing,

00:03:03.840 this planning.

00:03:04.640 And then when we did it,

00:03:05.580 we were like, oh,

00:03:06.080 we should have done this a long time ago.

00:03:07.500 Totally worth it.

00:03:09.040 And then in the last few months,

00:03:11.420 I've actually left my company

00:03:13.640 that I'd been with,

00:03:14.360 that I started,

00:03:15.560 The Art of Charm.

00:03:16.200 I left that company

00:03:17.100 in the last couple of months

00:03:18.820 and I left the show

00:03:20.920 and I started the Jordan Harbinger show instead.

00:03:23.380 And as you might imagine,

00:03:25.160 that wasn't how I foresaw

00:03:26.960 that split happening.

00:03:29.300 It was not supposed to happen that way.

00:03:31.660 We had negotiated something totally different

00:03:33.640 and that ended up

00:03:34.900 not going according to plan

00:03:36.960 for various reasons,

00:03:38.000 some of which are legal claims

00:03:39.160 that are still outstanding.

00:03:40.720 And so I'm like,

00:03:41.520 all right,

00:03:42.220 I got to move forward.

00:03:43.620 And either I can make a choice

00:03:46.020 to be down about this

00:03:47.300 for longer than I was,

00:03:49.140 because I did go through

00:03:50.000 almost a period of mourning, right?

00:03:52.580 Like, I'm leaving this

00:03:53.400 and they're getting this stuff,

00:03:54.620 they're taking this away

00:03:55.440 and the back catalog

00:03:56.360 of the old show is gone.

00:03:58.240 But now I'm more excited.

00:03:59.740 But it was quite a process

00:04:01.060 and I'm still going through it.

00:04:02.580 I'm still in the middle of it.

00:04:04.000 And the more I talk about it,

00:04:05.320 the more I realize every guy,

00:04:07.440 and girl for that matter,

00:04:08.620 but every guy especially,

00:04:10.180 has gone through this

00:04:11.180 if they've just been on this planet long.

00:04:13.180 Right, yeah.

00:04:14.200 You're basically starting from square one.

00:04:16.400 You spend 11 years doing something

00:04:18.660 and then that's gone.

00:04:20.360 I mean, so you said

00:04:21.040 you went through this like mourning period.

00:04:23.900 What, I mean,

00:04:24.280 when this initially happened,

00:04:25.760 this transition happened,

00:04:26.860 what were your biggest fears?

00:04:29.160 Like, what were the things

00:04:29.900 that were keeping,

00:04:30.840 that tied your stomach in knots

00:04:32.120 and was keeping you up at night?

00:04:33.860 And maybe they still are.

00:04:35.840 Yeah, it's funny.

00:04:36.720 I was literally being kept up at night

00:04:39.020 by all the what ifs.

00:04:40.420 And that was really scary for me

00:04:42.360 because I'd spent so many years

00:04:44.320 building up The Art of Charm

00:04:45.640 that the idea of just starting

00:04:46.940 the Jordan Harbinger show

00:04:48.040 and pretending everything

00:04:48.980 was going to be okay

00:04:49.820 just did not seem realistic at all.

00:04:53.280 And of course,

00:04:54.460 when you build something,

00:04:55.500 you think that's how long it takes

00:04:56.880 to build a thing like this,

00:04:58.660 a podcast that has that much traction,

00:05:01.240 that has that many listeners.

00:05:02.120 It's going to take me

00:05:02.860 another 11 years to do it.

00:05:04.460 But what your brain

00:05:05.640 or what my brain anyway

00:05:06.980 didn't realize was

00:05:08.160 that everybody,

00:05:08.720 and of course,

00:05:09.280 everybody else is telling me this,

00:05:10.380 but I wasn't listening,

00:05:11.600 was, no, you're taking with you

00:05:13.360 all of your skills

00:05:14.520 that you built over the years,

00:05:15.740 all the relationships

00:05:16.500 that you built over the years,

00:05:18.320 all of,

00:05:18.780 and most of the team,

00:05:20.280 around 85, 90% of the team

00:05:22.060 from The Art of Charm

00:05:23.060 ended up coming with me

00:05:23.960 on the new venture anyway.

00:05:25.880 And so I wasn't starting over

00:05:27.780 from scratch by any measure.

00:05:29.660 It was kind of like

00:05:30.700 if you own a restaurant

00:05:31.720 and then that restaurant burns down

00:05:33.640 and you open another one,

00:05:35.440 you're not thinking,

00:05:36.100 gee, where do I buy food

00:05:37.440 and how do I hire waitresses 0.98

00:05:38.640 and servers

00:05:39.980 and how do I manage the accounting?

00:05:41.900 You've already done that.

00:05:42.840 You just have to do it

00:05:43.640 in a different location

00:05:44.820 with different resources,

00:05:47.080 but you're not starting

00:05:48.620 from scratch, really.

00:05:49.980 You're not like you were

00:05:51.120 when you first built

00:05:52.040 or bought the restaurant.

00:05:53.840 And that was kind of lost on me.

00:05:56.160 I just discounted all of that

00:05:57.800 and instead focused,

00:05:59.960 really was catastrophizing

00:06:01.360 to sort of touch on an article

00:06:04.120 you wrote probably 10 years ago

00:06:06.000 I don't know if you remember that

00:06:07.080 four-part series.

00:06:09.080 I was catastrophizing a lot

00:06:10.900 and I was indulging in that a lot.

00:06:13.560 What if nobody,

00:06:14.640 what if this happens

00:06:15.940 and what if that happens

00:06:17.000 and what if my network dumps me

00:06:18.260 and what if the advertisers dump me

00:06:20.260 and what if I can't sell this

00:06:22.000 and what if the website doesn't work

00:06:23.780 and what if the,

00:06:24.500 I mean, there was,

00:06:25.520 there were what ifs 0.89

00:06:26.320 that were so ridiculous now.

00:06:28.240 Of course, I don't even remember 0.90

00:06:29.360 most of them,

00:06:30.400 but there are ones

00:06:31.920 I look back on now

00:06:32.880 and I'm like,

00:06:33.500 how did that cost me a night of sleep? 0.99

00:06:35.480 That was the dumbest thing 1.00

00:06:36.580 to worry about in the world. 0.99

00:06:38.000 But at the time,

00:06:38.880 I was convinced.

00:06:41.040 And I remember thinking,

00:06:42.420 well, you're,

00:06:42.920 I could be catastrophizing.

00:06:44.140 Well, no,

00:06:44.780 but probably this really bad thing

00:06:46.780 is going to happen, right?

00:06:48.080 And then I'm going to be homeless,

00:06:49.360 you know, dot, dot, dot,

00:06:50.660 the world implodes.

00:06:51.980 Right, no, man,

00:06:52.540 I'm a big time catastrophizer.

00:06:54.380 And even when I know I'm doing it,

00:06:55.740 I'm like, no,

00:06:56.700 I somehow convinced myself,

00:06:58.160 like, no, this is going to happen.

00:06:59.280 This is really going to happen this time.

00:07:00.980 Yeah, it's like,

00:07:02.500 well, for other people,

00:07:03.600 I would say, don't worry.

00:07:04.980 And, you know,

00:07:05.660 you're talented

00:07:06.200 and you're a hard worker

00:07:07.060 and you're lucky

00:07:08.000 and you have all these skills

00:07:08.960 and the team's coming with you.

00:07:10.080 And the bright side is

00:07:11.040 you don't have a health issue

00:07:11.980 and, you know,

00:07:12.580 you're not going to lose your house.

00:07:13.700 Your wife and you are happy.

00:07:14.940 You have a great family.

00:07:15.720 And I'm like,

00:07:16.400 but I lost my podcast.

00:07:17.820 And then now that I say it, 0.78

00:07:19.000 it's such a ridiculous thing. 0.98

00:07:21.000 I mean, 0.94

00:07:21.220 if you're going to have a hurdle

00:07:22.160 thrown in the middle of your life,

00:07:23.440 can it please be

00:07:24.360 that you left a company

00:07:26.020 that you should have left

00:07:26.800 a long time ago

00:07:27.520 and started a new project?

00:07:28.720 You know,

00:07:29.760 there's a lot of people out there.

00:07:31.060 I was talking with a friend of mine

00:07:31.940 who had,

00:07:33.180 is just getting over cancer. 0.98

00:07:34.400 And I felt so stupid 0.89

00:07:36.260 telling her about my problems.

00:07:38.760 You know,

00:07:39.460 she's like,

00:07:39.900 oh, really?

00:07:40.600 Tell me more about

00:07:41.500 how you lost a bunch of MP3 files.

00:07:43.860 You know,

00:07:44.440 she didn't say that,

00:07:45.500 but that's kind of how I felt

00:07:46.640 whining to my friend.

00:07:48.940 She's like,

00:07:49.460 no,

00:07:49.760 well,

00:07:50.520 problems are problems

00:07:51.880 no matter what.

00:07:52.840 When you're in the middle of it,

00:07:53.980 that problem is the biggest problem

00:07:55.260 in your universe.

00:07:56.300 But when you get some perspective,

00:07:58.520 it's really hard to sit there

00:08:00.760 and feel sorry for yourself

00:08:02.020 when she's going in

00:08:03.320 and having lymph nodes removed,

00:08:04.940 right?

00:08:05.540 And I'm totally able-bodied,

00:08:07.640 totally fine.

00:08:08.920 And my biggest hiccup

00:08:10.460 is I've kind of got to rebuild

00:08:11.820 the foundations of a business.

00:08:13.380 And I already know how.

00:08:14.580 Yeah.

00:08:14.900 So, I mean,

00:08:15.480 look,

00:08:15.640 it's interesting.

00:08:16.840 Yeah,

00:08:16.940 you're in this position

00:08:17.620 where you've spent 11 years

00:08:19.540 talking to experts

00:08:20.460 from a wide variety of fields,

00:08:22.580 business leaders,

00:08:23.520 psychologists,

00:08:24.560 you name it.

00:08:25.160 I'm curious,

00:08:27.020 were there any

00:08:27.960 words of wisdom

00:08:29.280 or advice

00:08:29.980 or practical tactics

00:08:31.780 that you got

00:08:32.700 from some of these people

00:08:33.580 you've talked to

00:08:34.160 to manage

00:08:35.160 your anxiety

00:08:36.620 or that feeling of uncertainty

00:08:38.000 you've been going through

00:08:39.020 since starting over?

00:08:41.020 Yeah,

00:08:41.600 there are tons,

00:08:42.820 actually.

00:08:43.420 And the primary skill set

00:08:46.400 that I use to get over it,

00:08:47.700 I know people are thinking like,

00:08:48.940 oh, meditation

00:08:49.620 and this.

00:08:50.340 And yes,

00:08:51.420 all that stuff came in handy.

00:08:52.820 You know,

00:08:52.980 I would sort of

00:08:53.780 defuse

00:08:54.620 some of my stress

00:08:56.800 through that,

00:08:57.800 through those types of things.

00:08:58.700 But I'll tell you,

00:08:59.540 most of what it was

00:09:01.000 was realizing,

00:09:03.100 and maybe I learned

00:09:03.800 some of this through osmosis

00:09:04.980 and some of it was,

00:09:05.780 of course,

00:09:06.000 direct advice from the guests.

00:09:07.120 But changes,

00:09:08.460 whether they're big or small

00:09:09.560 in your life,

00:09:10.040 is always inevitable.

00:09:11.420 And that sounds

00:09:12.420 a little cliche.

00:09:13.300 It's like,

00:09:13.540 oh,

00:09:13.640 the only thing constant

00:09:14.520 is change.

00:09:15.080 Like,

00:09:15.240 okay,

00:09:15.700 car commercial

00:09:16.300 from the 90s.

00:09:17.360 Thanks for the wisdom.

00:09:18.840 But really,

00:09:20.420 the uncertainty

00:09:21.100 that we have

00:09:22.700 and that I have

00:09:23.660 at any given point

00:09:24.320 in my life,

00:09:24.960 it's really a part

00:09:25.900 of the process.

00:09:26.760 We should be taking notes

00:09:27.980 and learning from that,

00:09:29.180 not trying to avoid it,

00:09:30.740 not trying to give our brains

00:09:32.180 perfect information,

00:09:33.740 as it were,

00:09:34.480 because our brains

00:09:35.340 are addicted to having

00:09:36.440 that perfect information.

00:09:38.840 Your brain

00:09:39.600 is an uncertainty machine,

00:09:41.900 right?

00:09:42.200 It will take,

00:09:43.720 it's trying to create stability.

00:09:45.380 So any information

00:09:46.300 that you don't have

00:09:47.380 is what you focus on.

00:09:49.220 And so that's why

00:09:50.320 guys like you and I

00:09:51.320 and other guys

00:09:51.780 in other difficult situations

00:09:53.480 who've maybe lost their job

00:09:54.620 or are going through a divorce,

00:09:55.980 we catastrophize

00:09:56.920 because we don't think,

00:09:58.700 all right,

00:09:58.880 I have a stable job.

00:09:59.940 I have a stable house.

00:10:00.980 My car is in good shape.

00:10:01.920 I have good health.

00:10:02.640 They think,

00:10:03.180 oh,

00:10:03.440 there's the outcome

00:10:04.420 of this particular legal thing

00:10:05.980 is outside my control.

00:10:07.960 So that's the thing

00:10:08.740 I'm going to focus on.

00:10:10.620 And so uncertainty,

00:10:11.720 I've found,

00:10:12.400 really was kind of a function

00:10:13.520 of how much information

00:10:14.520 that I have

00:10:15.200 versus how much information

00:10:16.300 that I want.

00:10:16.980 Because I want

00:10:17.600 all of the information

00:10:19.200 in my brain,

00:10:20.300 right?

00:10:20.680 But we can never have that.

00:10:22.760 So that uncertainty,

00:10:24.780 that gap between the info you have

00:10:26.480 and the info your brain wants,

00:10:28.160 that really throws

00:10:30.200 a magnifying glass

00:10:31.200 on unpleasant events

00:10:32.880 and makes them more unpleasant.

00:10:35.360 Because you're really

00:10:36.240 only focusing on that.

00:10:38.020 And I really had to find

00:10:40.460 that the uncertainty

00:10:41.780 was an opportunity for me

00:10:43.360 to learn about

00:10:44.420 how I can handle

00:10:45.960 this particular situation,

00:10:47.200 how I can focus

00:10:49.540 on the right things,

00:10:50.980 how I have to do that

00:10:52.560 in order to stay sane

00:10:53.480 or drive myself crazy.

00:10:54.600 And after enough

00:10:55.540 sleepless nights,

00:10:56.760 it really was a realization

00:10:59.020 that I had to come to with.

00:11:00.520 Instability isn't a thing

00:11:01.560 that we need to deal with.

00:11:02.760 Uncertain situations

00:11:03.720 aren't a thing

00:11:04.300 that we need to deal with.

00:11:05.600 They are,

00:11:06.680 that is your life,

00:11:07.980 right?

00:11:08.140 If you zoom out far enough,

00:11:09.240 you don't know what the hell 0.56

00:11:09.880 is going to happen tomorrow.

00:11:10.940 You have no clue.

00:11:12.680 And it made me understand

00:11:15.080 at a deeper level

00:11:16.700 why some people,

00:11:17.620 and I'm not religious at all,

00:11:20.000 but I totally get it now

00:11:22.380 in some way

00:11:23.360 why that is such

00:11:24.500 a comforting thing to have.

00:11:25.880 Because when this was happening,

00:11:27.740 I remember thinking,

00:11:28.940 wow, you know,

00:11:29.460 if I was really religious right now,

00:11:31.420 this would probably be

00:11:32.420 an easier situation

00:11:33.440 for me to get through.

00:11:34.940 And that was an interesting

00:11:37.240 realization for me.

00:11:38.320 And I found a lot of gifts

00:11:39.480 that also come out

00:11:40.560 of the situation.

00:11:42.920 And a lot of people said things like,

00:11:44.120 you're going to find out

00:11:44.760 who your friends are.

00:11:45.680 And I'll tell you,

00:11:46.240 whenever, you know,

00:11:46.700 whenever you hear an athlete say that

00:11:48.280 or a musician

00:11:49.040 on some behind the music thing,

00:11:51.280 it's never because,

00:11:52.280 wow, I was surprised

00:11:52.920 at how great my friends were.

00:11:53.880 It's always because everybody left them

00:11:55.160 when they were broke, right?

00:11:56.800 And that was the opposite

00:11:58.780 of what I found.

00:11:59.580 What I found was

00:12:00.480 once I was sort of forced

00:12:02.540 to reach out to everybody

00:12:04.300 in my network

00:12:05.720 and ask for help

00:12:06.880 in this very humble way,

00:12:08.660 I didn't have anybody say, 0.99

00:12:10.880 oh, sucks to be you 0.95

00:12:11.780 or call me 0.99

00:12:13.180 when you're back on top.

00:12:14.380 Nobody did that.

00:12:15.640 You know, you were right there like,

00:12:17.320 hey, man, I feel for you.

00:12:19.100 This is, I don't envy you,

00:12:20.560 but I feel for you.

00:12:21.960 Let's figure out how to help out.

00:12:23.600 And everybody's been

00:12:24.540 really helpful with that.

00:12:25.440 So there's a lot of gifts

00:12:26.400 that have come out of this.

00:12:27.660 And that is exactly

00:12:28.840 the type of thing

00:12:29.940 that a guest

00:12:30.560 on the Jordan Arbinger show

00:12:31.860 would say.

00:12:32.460 And I would kind of nod

00:12:33.360 and smile in agreement,

00:12:34.680 but I never really,

00:12:36.700 you didn't really feel it

00:12:37.840 at a visceral level

00:12:38.700 until you're in that situation.

00:12:40.440 You go, ah,

00:12:41.100 this is what people mean

00:12:42.040 by resilience

00:12:42.640 or this is what people mean

00:12:44.380 by feel the fear

00:12:45.660 and do it anyway.

00:12:46.460 And this is what people mean

00:12:47.440 by reaching out

00:12:49.100 and asking for help

00:12:50.080 and being able

00:12:51.660 to face potential rejection.

00:12:53.220 And I never had

00:12:54.040 to really do that.

00:12:55.980 So I went from,

00:12:57.300 in many areas,

00:12:58.060 an academic understanding

00:12:59.160 of some of the things

00:13:00.000 the guests were saying

00:13:00.760 on the show

00:13:01.200 to really feeling it.

00:13:03.140 And I think that's made me

00:13:03.960 a better interviewer,

00:13:05.060 a better host,

00:13:05.620 and probably a better person

00:13:07.420 to be around

00:13:08.260 because of this life experience

00:13:10.200 that happened

00:13:10.740 in the last couple of months

00:13:11.820 has really given me

00:13:13.820 a lot of perspective

00:13:14.640 and reinforced some things

00:13:17.360 that I just never

00:13:18.140 paid attention to.

00:13:19.140 Does that make sense?

00:13:19.840 No, that makes perfect sense.

00:13:20.720 And you mentioned something there,

00:13:21.460 that idea of having

00:13:22.780 to humble yourself

00:13:23.780 and ask for help.

00:13:25.120 And like, you know,

00:13:25.680 that's hard for a lot of guys

00:13:27.220 to do.

00:13:28.560 Was it hard for you

00:13:29.620 to like,

00:13:30.160 oh, I had to ask for help, right?

00:13:32.520 And usually you're in a position

00:13:33.720 of I'm the one who gives help.

00:13:35.360 What was that like?

00:13:36.280 And how did you over,

00:13:36.980 if you did have that sort of block,

00:13:38.340 how did you overcome it?

00:13:39.700 Yeah, so one of the principles

00:13:40.940 that I always teach on the show

00:13:42.920 is always be giving.

00:13:44.220 So Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross,

00:13:45.380 you remember that movie?

00:13:46.120 Of course.

00:13:47.020 Like ABC, always be closing.

00:13:49.280 So one of the principles

00:13:50.360 that we teach

00:13:51.620 on the Jordan Harbinger show

00:13:53.400 is always is ABG,

00:13:54.940 always be giving

00:13:55.540 or always be generous.

00:13:56.600 And so what that really means is

00:13:58.180 just give without the expectation

00:14:00.300 of anything in return.

00:14:01.420 And that's a really easy concept

00:14:04.360 to apply

00:14:04.980 if you're a good person

00:14:06.640 and you like helping other people,

00:14:08.060 which most of us are.

00:14:09.480 And so I was doing a lot of that,

00:14:10.860 giving without the expectation

00:14:11.960 of anything in return.

00:14:13.220 Now, the problem, of course,

00:14:14.800 was that,

00:14:15.520 or I wouldn't say the problem,

00:14:17.100 the hitch on that

00:14:18.360 was I was genuinely thinking

00:14:20.600 I will never need anything in return.

00:14:22.540 And that was kind of a fun part

00:14:24.240 of helping other people.

00:14:25.260 It's like there's a Hollywood saying

00:14:27.380 that when you get to the top,

00:14:28.760 you know,

00:14:28.920 send the elevator back down.

00:14:30.340 And I thought that's what I was doing,

00:14:32.020 helping other people.

00:14:33.100 And I was really enjoying the process

00:14:34.500 of helping other entrepreneurs

00:14:35.540 and other podcasters

00:14:36.560 and men get through situations

00:14:38.840 in their life.

00:14:39.900 So when I did have to ask for help,

00:14:42.200 it wasn't actually that,

00:14:43.760 it wasn't humiliating

00:14:44.960 in the way that I think

00:14:45.680 a lot of people expected it.

00:14:47.100 And I didn't really feel 0.76

00:14:48.520 dumb or silly doing it,

00:14:50.800 not because I'd helped so many people 0.99

00:14:52.640 and I felt like it was time

00:14:53.920 to cash in or anything like that,

00:14:55.480 but because I just think

00:14:57.760 when people ask me for help,

00:14:59.220 I don't think what a loser. 0.92

00:15:00.780 Look at this guy asking me for help. 0.98

00:15:02.820 I just think this person's on the hustle.

00:15:04.480 They're on the grind.

00:15:05.740 They need help.

00:15:06.320 I don't really judge people for that.

00:15:08.180 So I kind of,

00:15:09.400 for maybe a minute,

00:15:10.240 I thought,

00:15:10.640 oh, this is going to be embarrassing

00:15:11.700 to ask people for this

00:15:12.760 and tell them what happened.

00:15:14.040 And now I realize

00:15:14.840 if you can't be vulnerable,

00:15:16.940 you're not really a strong man

00:15:18.600 or a strong person.

00:15:19.800 If you can't show weakness

00:15:21.280 when you actually have it,

00:15:23.540 and if you can't show vulnerability

00:15:25.000 or ask for help from your friends

00:15:27.380 and acquaintances and colleagues

00:15:28.560 when you need it,

00:15:29.420 you're not really a strong person.

00:15:31.820 And so I thought,

00:15:33.280 if anybody says,

00:15:34.460 look at this guy,

00:15:35.640 he screwed up his business. 0.98

00:15:36.880 What a yutz. 0.73

00:15:38.140 Is that person,

00:15:38.940 is that more about me

00:15:39.820 or is it more about them?

00:15:41.600 And I think it's more about them.

00:15:43.720 But I will tell you,

00:15:44.700 one way in which I thought

00:15:46.400 that this was going to be trickier

00:15:47.660 was the initial outreach.

00:15:48.940 I thought I would face more rejection.

00:15:50.120 So I made a list

00:15:51.100 of maybe 10 or 20 people,

00:15:52.880 yourself included,

00:15:53.840 that I could reach out to first

00:15:55.140 that I knew would be helpful,

00:15:58.720 compassionate.

00:15:59.960 And then I reached out to you all first.

00:16:03.000 And then I reached out to other folks

00:16:04.720 because it gave me a little bit

00:16:05.800 of a confidence boost.

00:16:06.680 I thought, well,

00:16:07.200 if I've got help from this group

00:16:09.080 of dozen sort of key friends,

00:16:11.620 then I won't be as worried.

00:16:13.720 And so once all of you guys

00:16:15.060 were super supportive,

00:16:15.920 I thought, okay,

00:16:16.500 now I can reach out to other people.

00:16:17.900 And if some of them say no

00:16:18.940 or don't respond,

00:16:19.660 I'm not going to cry on my cereal.

00:16:22.240 So I kind of dipped my toes

00:16:23.920 in the water of outreach

00:16:25.080 and that boosted the confidence enough.

00:16:27.480 But I really didn't feel

00:16:29.120 like I had anything to worry about.

00:16:30.580 Now that said,

00:16:31.440 I understand that

00:16:33.140 if somebody feels ashamed

00:16:34.820 or embarrassed about reaching out

00:16:36.620 and asking for help,

00:16:37.440 I don't think that that

00:16:38.780 is weird or abnormal.

00:16:41.060 I think that it's natural to worry

00:16:43.040 that someone's going to reject you,

00:16:44.720 especially when you're vulnerable

00:16:46.120 and you need something

00:16:46.980 and you really need help.

00:16:48.580 It is natural to fear

00:16:50.560 that other people will reject you

00:16:52.320 or reject that help.

00:16:53.600 Or maybe you don't want to find out

00:16:55.660 that all the people

00:16:56.440 that you thought were your friends

00:16:57.560 are not people you can rely on.

00:16:59.500 But the way to figure that out

00:17:01.780 is not to avoid situations

00:17:03.480 in which you need to rely on them.

00:17:04.960 It's to lean on them

00:17:06.360 when you really need them.

00:17:07.500 And then if you find out

00:17:08.400 that you can't rely on them,

00:17:09.720 then you've learned a cheap lesson

00:17:11.920 no matter when you learn it, really.

00:17:14.300 I'm curiously,

00:17:14.760 so when did you start

00:17:16.060 putting the rubber to the road with this?

00:17:18.860 Was it immediately after you knew

00:17:20.980 this is, I got to move on,

00:17:22.900 this is got to move on to something else?

00:17:24.040 Or did you have a moment

00:17:25.800 of wallowing for a few days

00:17:27.820 and then you got going?

00:17:29.520 What was that like?

00:17:30.620 Yeah, so I actually did have that.

00:17:33.640 So first, it's funny

00:17:35.200 because I was telling a friend of mine

00:17:36.560 who's a counselor

00:17:37.180 about how this went down.

00:17:39.260 And the first stage

00:17:40.220 was something like,

00:17:42.160 no, I can't,

00:17:43.920 this isn't how this is going to happen.

00:17:46.240 This is a bluff

00:17:47.040 or this is a strange situation.

00:17:49.980 And then after that,

00:17:51.060 I felt really bad, right?

00:17:53.100 I was like, oh, I can't believe

00:17:54.180 that as I spent so much time doing this,

00:17:55.820 this doesn't make any sense.

00:17:57.500 And then I just tell my friend

00:17:58.700 who's a counselor,

00:17:59.220 she goes, these are the seven stages of grief,

00:18:01.200 shock and denial, pain.

00:18:03.020 After that comes anger and bargaining.

00:18:05.220 And so I said, oh, shoot,

00:18:06.280 am I going to become angry about this

00:18:07.880 and start figuring out,

00:18:09.560 shouting at the sky, why me?

00:18:11.900 And then after that's depression,

00:18:13.940 reflection and loneliness.

00:18:14.820 And I just went, oh, these sound awful.

00:18:17.280 But what helped me get through

00:18:19.720 after the sort of shock, denial, pain

00:18:21.800 and guilt or whatever stages

00:18:22.900 is I decided in concert with my producer

00:18:26.920 and the owner of my network,

00:18:29.480 which is Podcast One,

00:18:31.000 they said, just keep going.

00:18:32.360 Just start another show.

00:18:33.560 And I was like, oh God, I can't start over.

00:18:34.980 It's going to be too hard.

00:18:35.620 And they go, okay, well, here are your choices.

00:18:37.880 Whine about it

00:18:38.680 and we're all going to get sick of hearing about it.

00:18:40.520 Or let's get back to work, rebuild.

00:18:42.900 Everyone's excited but you.

00:18:44.220 Put your big boy pants on and get back to work.

00:18:46.400 And people, my producer

00:18:47.460 and the owner of the network

00:18:49.720 literally said that to me.

00:18:51.240 They were not sugarcoating it.

00:18:52.860 They're just like, look,

00:18:54.560 if this is the worst thing

00:18:55.400 that's happened to you in your business,

00:18:56.660 you're doing well.

00:18:57.340 Because the owner of the network is 75 years old

00:18:59.420 and he's been in the radio business

00:19:00.480 for like 50 years.

00:19:01.880 And my producer said,

00:19:03.160 hey man, I'm not saying

00:19:04.140 I'm losing respect for you,

00:19:05.260 but I'm saying I will

00:19:06.200 if you just keep whining every day.

00:19:07.800 So take the weekend,

00:19:08.980 recover and get back to work.

00:19:11.200 So keeping my head down

00:19:12.440 or I should say putting my head back down

00:19:15.180 and getting to work

00:19:16.340 was the best therapy for me.

00:19:18.420 I'm not recommending that

00:19:19.460 for every single person

00:19:20.660 because maybe some people

00:19:21.760 do need to take a week off

00:19:23.140 and go to a place like Hawaii

00:19:24.680 and swim in the ocean

00:19:26.100 and decompress

00:19:26.860 and get clarity on what they want to do.

00:19:28.500 But I was already really clear.

00:19:30.360 I love interviewing people.

00:19:31.640 I love podcasting and radio

00:19:33.560 and producing really high quality interviews

00:19:36.120 with the guests that we have on the show.

00:19:38.980 So I already knew what I wanted to do.

00:19:40.960 Me waiting,

00:19:42.600 in a very real sense,

00:19:44.800 was just waiting for things

00:19:45.840 to either get worse

00:19:46.760 or magically fix themselves,

00:19:48.280 which has never happened

00:19:49.320 in the course of history,

00:19:51.200 a magical fix.

00:19:52.060 So just starting again

00:19:54.160 and moving forward

00:19:55.400 was the absolute best,

00:19:57.540 most cathartic thing ever.

00:19:58.800 And when I recorded

00:19:59.640 those first few episodes

00:20:01.340 of the Jordan Harbinger show, 0.97

00:20:02.720 I slept like a freaking baby 0.95

00:20:04.540 those nights 0.90

00:20:05.600 because I knew

00:20:06.500 that I was moving forward

00:20:07.580 and I didn't realize

00:20:08.620 what it was.

00:20:09.760 But when I,

00:20:10.440 I had the same experience

00:20:11.760 when I got laid off

00:20:12.540 from my law firm

00:20:13.360 probably like 10 years ago now.

00:20:16.460 The whole class got laid off

00:20:17.940 because of the economic downturn.

00:20:19.880 The one thing,

00:20:20.840 I was worried,

00:20:21.460 everybody was freaking out

00:20:22.360 and then the one thing

00:20:23.280 that made me feel better

00:20:24.180 was just getting back

00:20:25.120 to work immediately.

00:20:26.840 So I don't know

00:20:28.120 if this is a cure-all

00:20:29.120 for everybody.

00:20:29.940 It might just be related

00:20:30.880 to my personality type

00:20:32.040 as sort of an entrepreneurial guy,

00:20:35.660 but I needed to feel

00:20:36.940 like I was moving forward

00:20:38.080 because it wasn't the uncertainty

00:20:39.620 that was driving me crazy.

00:20:41.100 I should say

00:20:41.480 it wasn't just the uncertainty

00:20:42.760 that was driving me crazy.

00:20:44.400 It was the stagnation

00:20:45.820 that was driving me crazy.

00:20:47.740 And so every day that goes by,

00:20:49.400 watching the Jordan Harbinger show

00:20:50.820 grow back to some level

00:20:53.180 of where it was

00:20:54.100 with The Art of Charm

00:20:55.380 is really what's keeping me

00:20:59.000 feeling like I'm moving forward

00:21:00.760 instead of driving me insane.

00:21:02.880 And I was driving myself

00:21:03.980 literally crazy, man.

00:21:05.880 No, yeah.

00:21:06.600 And that raises an interesting point.

00:21:08.260 I'm, you know,

00:21:09.380 we, a few,

00:21:10.080 I guess, man,

00:21:10.620 it's been 10 years.

00:21:11.460 You had me on your show

00:21:12.520 to talk about resilience.

00:21:14.280 And I'm reading a new book

00:21:16.400 that reminded me

00:21:17.160 of this conversation we had.

00:21:18.360 It's called

00:21:18.660 The Self-Directed Child.

00:21:20.320 And it's all about

00:21:21.120 how to get your kid

00:21:22.000 to take ownership

00:21:23.640 of their life

00:21:24.180 and, you know,

00:21:24.820 basically direct themselves

00:21:25.900 and become autonomous.

00:21:27.320 And one of the points

00:21:28.280 they hit hard on

00:21:29.420 is that people,

00:21:30.960 children,

00:21:31.380 but people in general,

00:21:32.340 they need a sense of control,

00:21:34.020 right?

00:21:34.740 That's what keeps you going.

00:21:36.000 That's what makes you feel confident.

00:21:37.460 And so the way you feel

00:21:38.880 in control

00:21:39.340 is like doing something.

00:21:40.200 So it sounds like

00:21:40.620 what you were doing

00:21:41.480 by just getting back to work,

00:21:43.000 you were thrown into this,

00:21:44.680 you know,

00:21:44.960 chaos of uncertainty.

00:21:47.120 You didn't feel

00:21:47.820 like you were in control.

00:21:48.460 So you started doing something

00:21:49.500 that gave you

00:21:50.200 that feeling of control,

00:21:51.160 which helps you move forward.

00:21:52.340 Yeah,

00:21:52.600 I would say

00:21:53.100 that's 100% accurate

00:21:54.340 because instead of focusing

00:21:55.900 on all of the things

00:21:57.020 I couldn't control,

00:21:58.300 which is the what-if game

00:21:59.340 that was keeping me up

00:22:00.220 from 1 a.m. to 8 a.m.,

00:22:02.820 three nights a week,

00:22:04.060 the what-if game

00:22:04.740 was driving me crazy.

00:22:05.520 But focusing on

00:22:06.180 what I could control

00:22:07.060 by doing the work,

00:22:08.960 then it was,

00:22:09.880 okay,

00:22:10.140 so the plan,

00:22:10.880 I'm going to do this,

00:22:11.520 this, this, this,

00:22:12.220 this, and this.

00:22:12.740 And my friend,

00:22:13.180 Matthew Kimberly,

00:22:14.320 who teaches sales

00:22:15.720 and helps sort of

00:22:17.280 early stage entrepreneurs

00:22:18.380 generally,

00:22:19.360 he said something brilliant

00:22:20.480 and I go,

00:22:21.160 I'm going to paraphrase it

00:22:22.260 because I'm not going

00:22:22.780 to get it right,

00:22:23.340 but it was the gist of

00:22:25.080 there's no such thing

00:22:26.520 as overwhelm.

00:22:27.640 It's just,

00:22:28.500 there's a such,

00:22:29.100 in business he's talking

00:22:30.140 about, of course,

00:22:31.120 there's just not knowing

00:22:32.260 what to do next.

00:22:33.280 And I don't know

00:22:33.780 that this is a universally

00:22:34.980 agreeable thing.

00:22:36.760 There's probably exceptions

00:22:37.620 to this,

00:22:38.200 but I found in this case

00:22:39.840 he was right.

00:22:40.600 I felt overwhelming.

00:22:41.780 I've got to do social media

00:22:42.880 from the beginning.

00:22:43.500 I start my Twitter again.

00:22:44.340 I got to start

00:22:44.700 my Facebook page again.

00:22:45.560 I got to start

00:22:46.080 a new YouTube channel.

00:22:47.500 I have to build up

00:22:48.500 all these interviews

00:22:49.060 with guests

00:22:49.480 and get a back catalog

00:22:50.240 and then I've got

00:22:50.740 to regrow the show.

00:22:52.300 And that all seemed,

00:22:53.160 that was just chaos

00:22:54.120 and that was just

00:22:55.040 how is this ever,

00:22:56.440 how am I going

00:22:56.900 to get back to this?

00:22:57.780 This is going

00:22:58.160 to be impossible.

00:22:59.320 But when I started

00:22:59.940 focusing on,

00:23:00.780 well,

00:23:00.860 what's the next step?

00:23:01.980 The next step 0.99

00:23:02.500 is do a damn 0.98

00:23:03.140 good interview 0.96

00:23:03.700 with the next guest

00:23:04.620 you have on

00:23:05.100 the Jordan Harbinger show.

00:23:06.100 Stop worrying

00:23:06.660 about your back catalog size

00:23:08.400 and how it's going

00:23:09.380 to look in 18 months.

00:23:11.140 That's going

00:23:11.580 to drive you crazy

00:23:12.280 if you're trying

00:23:12.780 to handle 18 months

00:23:13.700 worth of work

00:23:14.240 in the next week

00:23:15.000 or the next day.

00:23:16.600 Just focus

00:23:17.140 on the next steps.

00:23:18.460 You have a plan.

00:23:19.180 You have a strategy.

00:23:20.060 You've done it before.

00:23:21.260 Now you have help

00:23:21.920 from your friends.

00:23:23.060 Get a good night's sleep

00:23:24.040 and stop worrying about it.

00:23:25.520 And that was,

00:23:26.240 you're right,

00:23:26.680 it was very helpful

00:23:27.440 because my brain

00:23:28.760 really did want control.

00:23:30.700 I felt like

00:23:31.240 I had lost control

00:23:32.200 and instead of trying

00:23:33.260 to control everything

00:23:34.060 all at once,

00:23:34.740 I just focused

00:23:35.840 on what I could

00:23:36.520 actually do next

00:23:37.540 that was going

00:23:37.980 to move the ball forward

00:23:39.040 and that was a magical,

00:23:41.540 there's,

00:23:42.420 that was better

00:23:43.200 than any doctor's

00:23:44.540 prescription

00:23:44.980 that I could get

00:23:45.860 for sleeping pills.

00:23:47.040 It was better

00:23:47.420 than any,

00:23:48.620 yeah,

00:23:49.020 just go out

00:23:49.460 and get some sun

00:23:50.320 suggestion

00:23:51.340 or it was better

00:23:52.420 than anything.

00:23:53.180 It was better

00:23:53.460 than any therapy,

00:23:54.580 any sort of cure

00:23:55.500 was do the work.

00:23:57.920 Get back to work.

00:23:59.600 And I find

00:24:00.200 that that's been true

00:24:01.500 for me throughout life.

00:24:02.520 I just didn't notice

00:24:03.360 it as a pattern.

00:24:04.620 And I'm saying this

00:24:05.920 as a prescription

00:24:07.200 for guys and gals

00:24:09.100 out there

00:24:09.380 that find themselves

00:24:10.100 really stuck.

00:24:11.540 This may not be

00:24:12.460 the cure-all for you,

00:24:13.360 but just give it a shot

00:24:14.520 because it sure beats

00:24:15.480 getting addicted to Xanax.

00:24:17.180 We're going to take

00:24:17.700 a quick break

00:24:18.040 for your word

00:24:18.480 from our sponsors.

00:24:19.200 All right,

00:24:19.440 it is prom season,

00:24:20.300 so if you're a high school

00:24:21.140 student going to attend prom

00:24:22.940 or you have a high schooler

00:24:24.020 who will be attending prom

00:24:25.060 and needs to rent a tuxedo,

00:24:26.160 you need to check out

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00:26:16.620 And now back to the show.

00:26:18.320 Right.

00:26:18.720 No, yeah.

00:26:19.120 So I mean,

00:26:19.340 if a guy loses his job,

00:26:20.600 that's going to happen

00:26:21.120 to I think most people

00:26:23.620 at some point in their life.

00:26:25.220 You know,

00:26:25.340 instead of wallowing,

00:26:26.500 the first thing you should do

00:26:27.140 is like,

00:26:27.340 okay,

00:26:27.440 I want to reach,

00:26:27.960 like what you did,

00:26:28.560 you reached out

00:26:29.120 to your network

00:26:30.340 for some help.

00:26:31.760 You can do that too

00:26:32.720 if you lost your job.

00:26:33.920 Like, hey,

00:26:34.260 I'm looking for employment.

00:26:35.920 That's the thing you do

00:26:36.980 for like the next few days

00:26:38.060 is reaching out

00:26:38.620 to those key people,

00:26:39.400 you know,

00:26:39.580 they can hopefully help you

00:26:40.400 find another job.

00:26:42.240 I agree.

00:26:42.960 And in fact,

00:26:43.580 if you don't mind,

00:26:44.480 I'll give your audience here,

00:26:46.380 our listeners here,

00:26:47.540 a little bit of homework

00:26:48.520 because I had spent 10 years

00:26:50.780 building relationships

00:26:51.640 and digging the well

00:26:52.980 before I got thirsty.

00:26:54.620 And thank goodness

00:26:55.840 that I did that

00:26:56.660 because if I had been

00:26:58.960 in the situation

00:26:59.780 that I'm in now,

00:27:00.980 but I hadn't been building

00:27:02.060 and maintaining relationships

00:27:03.200 because I wanted to procrastinate

00:27:05.160 or I felt shy

00:27:06.260 and I gave myself an excuse

00:27:07.540 and I kept saying,

00:27:08.660 I'm an introvert.

00:27:09.600 I don't like doing this. 0.96

00:27:10.800 Then I would be really screwed 0.91

00:27:11.960 right now. 0.94

00:27:12.560 But I'm not

00:27:13.260 because I managed

00:27:14.520 to have a bunch of relationships.

00:27:16.020 And so here's a little

00:27:16.840 thought exercise.

00:27:17.600 Speaking of getting laid off

00:27:19.000 or losing your job,

00:27:20.640 if you get laid off

00:27:21.560 from your job today,

00:27:22.780 who are the 10

00:27:23.660 or maybe 20 people

00:27:25.040 you'd contact

00:27:26.240 to solicit their advice

00:27:28.320 on what to do next?

00:27:29.660 So sit down

00:27:30.280 and make this list

00:27:31.160 of let's say 10 people

00:27:32.220 that you would call

00:27:33.460 and get advice from

00:27:34.500 once you got laid off.

00:27:36.320 Then once you've got that list,

00:27:38.360 reach out to those people now

00:27:40.000 before you need something.

00:27:42.020 Because I think the reason

00:27:43.320 people are hesitant

00:27:44.220 to reach out for help

00:27:45.340 when they need it

00:27:45.900 is because

00:27:46.520 every conversation

00:27:47.940 starts with,

00:27:49.500 hey,

00:27:50.480 Brett,

00:27:50.760 we haven't talked

00:27:51.420 in like four years,

00:27:52.620 but I really need something

00:27:54.440 right now. 0.99

00:27:55.340 And they feel dumb 0.98

00:27:56.740 because they know 0.74

00:27:57.680 that they're the person

00:27:58.860 who's coming out

00:27:59.440 of the woodwork

00:28:00.140 asking for a favor.

00:28:01.980 I didn't have to worry

00:28:02.800 about that

00:28:03.360 with my outreach

00:28:04.360 because I've been

00:28:05.840 keeping in touch

00:28:06.420 with a lot of these

00:28:07.100 guys and gals

00:28:08.020 for years

00:28:08.860 or at least months

00:28:10.240 pretty regularly,

00:28:11.080 even if it's only been

00:28:12.340 once every six months

00:28:13.280 or so,

00:28:14.000 it's decently regular

00:28:15.200 and I have systems

00:28:16.420 for that.

00:28:17.160 So I didn't feel like,

00:28:18.340 oh gosh,

00:28:18.860 I haven't talked

00:28:19.380 to this person in forever

00:28:20.320 and now I have to reach out

00:28:21.340 and ask for something.

00:28:22.160 How embarrassing.

00:28:23.460 I didn't have that concern

00:28:24.860 because I was doing this,

00:28:26.540 I was digging the well

00:28:27.240 before I got thirsty.

00:28:28.520 So I highly recommend

00:28:29.640 this exercise,

00:28:31.420 which I call

00:28:31.880 Layoff Lifelines.

00:28:33.640 Make that list of people,

00:28:34.900 reach out now

00:28:35.760 and if you do need

00:28:37.480 something later,

00:28:38.700 man,

00:28:38.920 are you going to be glad

00:28:39.780 that you reached out

00:28:40.540 to these people

00:28:41.140 four, five, six months ago,

00:28:42.960 a year ago,

00:28:43.600 whatever it was,

00:28:44.720 when you do need something

00:28:45.620 because you won't be embarrassed.

00:28:47.680 You'll have already started

00:28:48.780 the momentum

00:28:49.260 in that relationship

00:28:50.240 or regained momentum

00:28:51.360 in that relationship.

00:28:53.040 Yeah,

00:28:53.180 this is this concept

00:28:53.880 of social capital

00:28:54.700 that we talked about

00:28:55.440 on our last episode

00:28:57.000 with each other.

00:28:57.680 Yes,

00:28:58.360 exactly.

00:28:59.180 Although at that point,

00:29:00.340 I was teaching it like,

00:29:02.020 hey,

00:29:02.240 this has worked really well

00:29:03.180 for me to build the business.

00:29:04.420 You should try it.

00:29:05.200 It's really useful.

00:29:06.460 Now I'm looking at it as

00:29:07.600 this is the best insurance policy

00:29:10.520 that I've ever had

00:29:11.980 in my whole life

00:29:12.860 as far as business goes

00:29:14.300 because if you said,

00:29:15.780 hey,

00:29:15.920 Jordan,

00:29:16.380 you can't use your network anymore

00:29:18.700 or any of your existing relationships,

00:29:20.300 but I'm going to give you

00:29:21.200 a million dollars in cash

00:29:22.860 to float your business

00:29:24.220 and help you move forward,

00:29:25.300 I would never take the money

00:29:26.540 because the network

00:29:27.820 that I have,

00:29:28.980 the relationships that I have

00:29:30.260 are worth far more

00:29:32.820 than that.

00:29:33.820 In fact,

00:29:34.240 you could probably offer me

00:29:35.340 five million.

00:29:36.020 I'm still not sure

00:29:36.780 I would take it

00:29:37.600 because I know

00:29:38.740 that with the relationships

00:29:40.160 and the connections

00:29:40.780 that I've made

00:29:41.240 over the last several years

00:29:42.600 that I can rebuild the business

00:29:44.120 to be worth more than that

00:29:45.280 and it would not be worth

00:29:46.620 starting that process over

00:29:48.120 for that amount of money.

00:29:49.140 It just wouldn't.

00:29:49.820 So you mentioned

00:29:50.260 you have a system in place

00:29:51.360 and keep in sort of nurturing

00:29:53.360 and tending this network of yours.

00:29:55.340 What does that look like

00:29:56.180 and what do those reach outs

00:29:57.520 look like?

00:29:57.980 Because I've seen people implement,

00:30:00.460 you know,

00:30:00.740 I'm going to stay in touch

00:30:01.680 with people

00:30:02.020 and I get the emails

00:30:03.360 and it's just like,

00:30:04.520 it's so weird.

00:30:05.200 I don't know.

00:30:05.480 It feels weird

00:30:06.100 and fake and phony 0.76

00:30:06.900 and it's annoying.

00:30:09.360 Like, hey,

00:30:10.360 what's up, Brett?

00:30:11.780 I was just thinking about you

00:30:13.380 and it's like,

00:30:13.860 I haven't heard from them

00:30:14.580 in like a year.

00:30:16.180 So, I mean,

00:30:16.820 what's your tactic

00:30:18.240 or your system

00:30:20.040 that you have?

00:30:20.820 Yeah,

00:30:21.080 I realize that those

00:30:22.220 do sound weird

00:30:22.940 because usually

00:30:23.680 it goes something like this.

00:30:24.960 Hey, Brett,

00:30:25.860 just thinking about you,

00:30:27.360 wondering how you're doing.

00:30:28.840 Is your podcast going well?

00:30:30.240 Cool.

00:30:30.600 I'm releasing a book in April

00:30:32.140 and you're like,

00:30:32.580 oh, I knew it.

00:30:33.180 Yeah, exactly.

00:30:33.900 I knew it.

00:30:34.540 Exactly.

00:30:34.980 Yeah, there you go.

00:30:35.360 So those people

00:30:35.860 are doing it wrong

00:30:36.580 because they're buttering you up

00:30:38.420 because they want something.

00:30:39.720 So that's the opposite

00:30:41.440 of ABG,

00:30:42.860 help other people

00:30:43.500 without the expectation

00:30:44.300 of anything in return.

00:30:45.560 And it's very much

00:30:46.460 a quid pro quo transaction

00:30:48.960 and that's what makes it feel gross.

00:30:51.500 So when I use,

00:30:52.700 when I say I have systems

00:30:53.640 to keep in touch with people,

00:30:54.920 sometimes people go,

00:30:55.780 oh, that's weird.

00:30:56.800 But it's not weird.

00:30:58.140 It's not weird to remember

00:30:59.200 someone's birthday

00:30:59.920 by using Facebook.

00:31:01.140 It's just not.

00:31:02.700 So I have two ways

00:31:04.320 of going about this,

00:31:05.220 sort of systematic

00:31:06.020 network maintenance,

00:31:07.580 if you will,

00:31:08.200 and opportunistic

00:31:09.800 are the two categories.

00:31:11.680 So opportunistic is

00:31:13.140 I log into Facebook.

00:31:15.280 I see Brett had a baby.

00:31:17.000 Instead of clicking like

00:31:18.200 on the picture,

00:31:19.680 instead of leaving a comment,

00:31:20.980 I might write an email,

00:31:22.300 call you on the phone,

00:31:23.160 or send a text and say,

00:31:24.240 hey, congratulations.

00:31:25.420 Big, big news.

00:31:27.040 You know, you're a dad again.

00:31:28.080 This is so great.

00:31:28.920 I really hope things

00:31:30.200 are going well.

00:31:31.460 Talk to you soon.

00:31:32.420 No need to respond.

00:31:33.300 I'm sure you're busy

00:31:33.960 and you have a diaper

00:31:34.860 in one hand and a bottle

00:31:35.760 in the other.

00:31:36.760 Looking forward to catching up

00:31:37.800 at some point.

00:31:38.740 I'm not asking you for anything.

00:31:40.220 I'm not just clicking like

00:31:41.380 on this photo.

00:31:42.600 I'm responding to

00:31:43.900 a big event in your life

00:31:45.240 that did get shared,

00:31:46.840 but I'm not doing it

00:31:47.940 in the way that you shared it.

00:31:48.900 Because in my opinion,

00:31:50.820 if clicking like

00:31:52.540 is less than a comment,

00:31:54.180 which is less than

00:31:55.040 a personal message,

00:31:56.160 which is less than

00:31:57.060 an email,

00:31:58.280 which is less than a text,

00:31:59.380 which is less than

00:31:59.980 a phone call,

00:32:00.800 which is less than

00:32:01.600 seeing someone in person

00:32:02.600 on sort of the hierarchy

00:32:03.800 of maintaining a relationship.

00:32:06.140 You know, so it's better

00:32:08.000 if somebody has a big event.

00:32:09.920 It's great if you can

00:32:10.640 see them in person.

00:32:11.640 It's better if you can

00:32:12.480 call them on the,

00:32:13.100 or it's not as good,

00:32:14.460 but better than everything else

00:32:15.380 if you can call them

00:32:15.880 on the phone.

00:32:16.520 And then you sort of

00:32:17.180 go down that hierarchy.

00:32:18.880 And so use the opportunities

00:32:20.480 that you see.

00:32:21.800 You heard something

00:32:22.620 through the grapevine

00:32:23.340 of some good or bad news

00:32:24.760 on somebody in your network.

00:32:26.180 Go reach out to them.

00:32:27.660 You see someone

00:32:28.540 in your news feed.

00:32:29.380 Use that as a reason

00:32:30.340 to reach out to them.

00:32:31.880 And so that's the opportunistic.

00:32:33.280 It's just sort of

00:32:33.700 something presents itself

00:32:34.780 or you're walking

00:32:35.880 down the street

00:32:36.520 and you see

00:32:37.180 Brett McKay Barbershop.

00:32:39.300 So I take a picture

00:32:40.000 and text it to you

00:32:40.840 and it's like,

00:32:41.760 oh, hey, what's going on, man?

00:32:42.820 Haven't seen you in a while.

00:32:43.580 Where is this place?

00:32:44.260 Oh, it's in Albuquerque.

00:32:45.180 What are you doing down there?

00:32:46.280 That's just spontaneous interaction.

00:32:48.440 And then the systematic way

00:32:49.660 is I use a CRM,

00:32:52.160 I guess for lack

00:32:52.760 of a better word,

00:32:53.320 it's called Contactually.

00:32:54.400 And I input

00:32:56.920 all my friends in there

00:32:58.780 and it just kind of

00:33:00.300 keeps track of our email chains.

00:33:02.340 And every 90 days or so,

00:33:04.820 whichever time period I choose,

00:33:06.540 it will remind me and say,

00:33:07.840 hey, you haven't talked

00:33:08.780 with this person.

00:33:10.220 And so I'll go, 0.99

00:33:11.280 oh, yeah, shoot.

00:33:11.900 I haven't spoken

00:33:12.480 with this person in a while.

00:33:13.980 And so I'll look on social media,

00:33:15.400 see what's new with them

00:33:16.200 and reach out.

00:33:17.120 And I'm never asking

00:33:18.160 for anything

00:33:18.780 during this type of outreach.

00:33:20.740 I'm either offering

00:33:21.760 some help for somebody else

00:33:23.080 or I'm just checking in.

00:33:25.080 And some people might think,

00:33:26.720 oh, it's kind of inauthentic

00:33:27.800 that somebody

00:33:28.280 or something has to remind you.

00:33:30.040 But I don't really agree with that.

00:33:31.980 I think if you are

00:33:33.100 in an industry,

00:33:35.580 like say you sell automobiles,

00:33:37.540 how the heck

00:33:38.200 are you going to remember

00:33:39.040 the names and birthdays

00:33:40.580 of all your colleagues

00:33:41.520 and all the people

00:33:42.060 that you worked with?

00:33:42.880 It's just,

00:33:43.280 it's not cheating.

00:33:44.440 It's technology, right?

00:33:45.780 It's not like the computer program

00:33:47.480 is sending out

00:33:48.100 the check-ins automatically.

00:33:49.720 That would be weird.

00:33:50.980 That would be weird.

00:33:51.720 There are apps that do that.

00:33:53.220 Yeah, that's a little bit too,

00:33:54.540 that's a little bit too strange.

00:33:56.380 I don't want something

00:33:56.940 to reach out on my behalf

00:33:58.440 because I'm too lazy.

00:34:00.120 If I have something

00:34:00.540 to say to somebody,

00:34:01.480 then I'll do it

00:34:02.780 because of the reminder.

00:34:04.280 If I don't have anything else to say,

00:34:05.960 I'll look up what they're doing.

00:34:07.480 I just,

00:34:08.400 you're right.

00:34:08.780 There's something really smarmy

00:34:10.060 about getting an email

00:34:11.120 that's clearly from

00:34:12.460 like an automated thing,

00:34:15.720 like automated system

00:34:16.740 that says,

00:34:17.420 hey, friend,

00:34:18.840 how are you?

00:34:19.620 Haven't spoken in a few months.

00:34:21.320 Hope all is well.

00:34:22.460 Send me news

00:34:23.140 when you get a chance.

00:34:23.960 It's like,

00:34:24.320 ah,

00:34:24.540 this is such a generic way

00:34:25.980 of making me do all the work

00:34:27.500 in our friendship. 0.98

00:34:28.240 I hate you now. 0.96

00:34:28.900 Right. 0.99

00:34:29.440 Right?

00:34:30.040 So,

00:34:30.680 I don't believe

00:34:31.520 in those types of things,

00:34:32.760 but I do believe

00:34:33.620 in some kind of,

00:34:34.540 maybe a little nudge

00:34:35.580 here and there

00:34:37.540 just to make sure

00:34:38.860 that I'm not forgetting somebody.

00:34:40.540 But mostly,

00:34:41.200 I use the opportunistic

00:34:42.260 network maintenance,

00:34:43.280 which is,

00:34:44.200 somebody's got big news,

00:34:45.400 I don't just click like,

00:34:46.500 I reach out to them.

00:34:47.420 Or if I heard somebody's

00:34:49.100 got something else going,

00:34:50.800 then I might reach out

00:34:52.000 and try to help them.

00:34:52.880 Like,

00:34:52.980 hey,

00:34:53.120 I heard you're launching

00:34:53.800 a new software product.

00:34:56.000 My friend runs AppSumo.

00:34:57.560 Do you want an introduction?

00:34:58.560 It's a great place

00:34:59.060 to sell software.

00:35:00.460 That's the kind of outreach

00:35:01.560 I'm looking for.

00:35:02.420 So,

00:35:02.600 I'm reaching out

00:35:03.280 to try and help people

00:35:04.420 or I'm reaching out

00:35:05.500 to check in.

00:35:06.500 I'm not just reaching out

00:35:08.000 when I want something.

00:35:09.000 That will not work for you

00:35:10.260 because that is not

00:35:11.360 digging the well

00:35:11.940 before you're thirsty.

00:35:13.060 That is trying to put

00:35:13.960 a spare tire

00:35:14.560 in the trunk of your car

00:35:15.480 after you've already

00:35:16.240 got a flat on the highway.

00:35:17.420 And you mentioned

00:35:18.580 you have a good example

00:35:19.720 of how to be helpful

00:35:21.080 because I feel like

00:35:21.740 also when people

00:35:22.520 people will hear this advice

00:35:23.600 always be giving

00:35:24.320 and they're going to go

00:35:25.260 to their emails

00:35:25.860 and their contact list

00:35:27.080 and just like

00:35:27.560 reach out to everybody.

00:35:28.600 Hey,

00:35:29.020 it's been a while.

00:35:29.680 Anything I can do to help?

00:35:31.260 I get those quite a bit

00:35:32.560 and I feel like

00:35:33.680 it's even like

00:35:34.180 it's like

00:35:35.000 more unhelpful

00:35:36.480 because it's like

00:35:37.060 do I need help?

00:35:37.920 Like,

00:35:38.040 what do I need help with?

00:35:39.180 Your example,

00:35:40.000 you gave a specific action

00:35:41.600 like,

00:35:42.280 hey,

00:35:42.640 I saw you started the business.

00:35:44.200 I know the guy at AppSumo.

00:35:46.080 Would you like me

00:35:46.540 to make an introduction?

00:35:47.320 Like that is like,

00:35:48.240 I'm like,

00:35:48.600 oh yeah,

00:35:48.920 that is actually really useful.

00:35:50.320 I'd be like,

00:35:50.800 I would definitely

00:35:51.540 go on that.

00:35:52.440 But like,

00:35:52.940 when you just say,

00:35:53.520 just kind of give the blanket,

00:35:54.860 anything I can do to help?

00:35:55.880 Like you make the person

00:35:56.720 try to figure out

00:35:57.720 what you can,

00:35:58.600 like,

00:35:58.700 and that's not helpful.

00:36:00.060 Exactly.

00:36:00.640 That's a really good point.

00:36:01.800 You need to give specific help.

00:36:03.920 Reaching out and say,

00:36:05.040 saying,

00:36:05.460 is there anything I can do for you

00:36:07.200 is a way of putting the monkey

00:36:09.060 on someone else's back.

00:36:10.560 So,

00:36:10.980 in a lot of times

00:36:11.840 when somebody sends me an email

00:36:12.960 about something,

00:36:13.540 I'll reply with whatever it is

00:36:15.360 that they answer

00:36:16.000 and I'll say,

00:36:16.420 let me,

00:36:16.700 let me know if I can ever be of service.

00:36:18.780 That's different

00:36:19.560 than putting the monkey

00:36:21.020 on someone else's back

00:36:22.060 by reaching out and saying,

00:36:23.140 hey,

00:36:23.380 Brett,

00:36:23.980 was just thinking about you.

00:36:25.420 Let me know if I can help

00:36:26.560 with anything.

00:36:27.020 Because the answer is,

00:36:28.040 unless I really need something

00:36:29.780 specifically from you

00:36:31.180 that I know you're good at

00:36:32.400 and I know you well enough

00:36:33.520 to know what you're competent

00:36:34.560 and good at,

00:36:35.580 it's completely unhelpful.

00:36:37.680 Because I'm,

00:36:38.700 you're right,

00:36:39.200 I'm making you do the work,

00:36:41.220 which is completely

00:36:42.440 and utterly annoying

00:36:44.360 in some way.

00:36:45.240 So,

00:36:45.560 it's the equivalent of,

00:36:46.960 and people don't realize this

00:36:48.120 because they don't see it

00:36:49.500 happen to themselves

00:36:50.440 or they don't realize,

00:36:51.320 they think they're being

00:36:51.900 really helpful

00:36:52.500 and it is a good,

00:36:54.440 it's a good intention.

00:36:56.240 It's a good intention,

00:36:57.720 I think.

00:36:58.260 But it's the equivalent of,

00:36:59.520 and you get this all the time,

00:37:00.660 I'm sure,

00:37:01.100 I get this as well

00:37:01.860 at the Jordan Harbinger shows.

00:37:03.240 I love your show,

00:37:04.620 I love what you guys are doing,

00:37:06.000 I want to intern

00:37:06.840 and I'll totally do unpaid work

00:37:08.620 and it sounds like a great offer

00:37:10.320 but then I've got to figure out

00:37:12.180 what this 20,

00:37:13.540 21 year old kid

00:37:15.220 who's still in college

00:37:16.300 can do,

00:37:17.320 what they want to do,

00:37:18.500 then I've got to manage them,

00:37:19.740 then I've got to follow up

00:37:20.800 and make sure they're doing it right,

00:37:21.900 then I've got to check their work.

00:37:23.540 It's a kind offer

00:37:24.460 but really you're just adding another job

00:37:26.660 which is,

00:37:27.580 I'm now your manager

00:37:28.840 and in return I get to,

00:37:30.560 I don't know,

00:37:31.160 like mentor you or something,

00:37:32.580 I don't know what that means.

00:37:33.920 So there's all these mismanaged expectations

00:37:36.320 on both sides of those equations

00:37:38.940 and people don't realize it,

00:37:40.940 they really do think they're being helpful.

00:37:42.400 So if you do outreach,

00:37:44.480 offer specific help

00:37:45.800 or just offer,

00:37:48.140 or just check in

00:37:49.480 and say,

00:37:50.460 hey, I noticed you went to Belize,

00:37:51.640 that looked really awesome,

00:37:52.700 I could use a break,

00:37:54.280 that kind of check-in,

00:37:56.040 something that doesn't require them

00:37:57.380 to write you a letter back.

00:37:59.300 You can even say,

00:37:59.940 no response necessary,

00:38:01.000 just admiring your photos,

00:38:02.600 hope you're well.

00:38:03.780 That gives them permission

00:38:04.820 to reach back out to you.

00:38:05.940 But yeah,

00:38:06.300 offering sort of a blanket,

00:38:07.700 let me know how I can help you.

00:38:09.320 No, you let me know

00:38:10.420 how you can help me.

00:38:11.620 You do that,

00:38:12.480 not the other way around.

00:38:13.580 And I like the,

00:38:14.440 when you check in

00:38:15.740 to add the addendum sometimes,

00:38:17.200 like no response necessary

00:38:18.560 because it completely takes

00:38:20.680 the pressure off of the person

00:38:22.540 and you're like,

00:38:22.900 oh, this is very,

00:38:24.180 this was actually nice, right?

00:38:25.520 It shows that you respect

00:38:26.600 the other person's time,

00:38:27.720 especially if you're reaching,

00:38:29.400 I put this in air quotes

00:38:30.440 because I don't,

00:38:31.000 I don't love hierarchy stuff,

00:38:32.120 but I put this in air quotes,

00:38:33.040 especially when you're reaching up,

00:38:34.900 right,

00:38:35.180 to an influencer.

00:38:36.020 So if you are thinking

00:38:38.080 of reaching out to,

00:38:40.340 if someone's thinking

00:38:41.060 of reaching out to you,

00:38:41.940 for example,

00:38:43.100 if they end their email

00:38:44.200 with no response necessary,

00:38:45.780 what it shows is

00:38:46.780 they understand

00:38:47.380 that you got 700 emails that week.

00:38:49.560 They understand

00:38:50.000 that you don't have time

00:38:51.000 to go through all of them.

00:38:52.360 They just wanted to say,

00:38:54.000 hey, your show

00:38:54.520 really changed my life.

00:38:55.520 I really loved the networking tips

00:38:56.840 from that one guy, Jordan.

00:38:58.120 That was really useful

00:38:59.200 and just wanted to say,

00:39:01.140 love the show.

00:39:01.920 No response necessary.

00:39:03.180 I usually still respond to those

00:39:04.540 and say, thanks.

00:39:05.260 It just takes me a while,

00:39:06.620 but it shows me

00:39:07.240 that that person gets it.

00:39:08.960 They're not the person,

00:39:10.240 the opposite of that

00:39:10.920 is the person that emails again

00:39:12.680 three days later

00:39:13.600 and is like,

00:39:13.940 hey,

00:39:14.060 just making sure you got this.

00:39:16.000 It's like,

00:39:16.580 yeah,

00:39:16.900 you're not the only person

00:39:18.140 in my inbox

00:39:18.860 and me replying to your email

00:39:21.020 is not what I'm prioritizing.

00:39:23.120 I'm thinking of the other

00:39:24.120 150,000 people

00:39:25.480 who listen to the content

00:39:27.160 that we're creating.

00:39:28.320 So signals like

00:39:29.920 no response necessary

00:39:30.980 show that you respect

00:39:32.600 the other person's time

00:39:33.520 and you understand

00:39:34.240 that it's not their job

00:39:35.820 or duty

00:39:36.660 or obligation

00:39:38.120 to respond to you

00:39:39.200 in a timely manner.

00:39:40.000 And that goes a long way

00:39:41.040 with me especially.

00:39:42.020 I love that.

00:39:42.780 No, yeah,

00:39:43.040 it's what I do

00:39:44.140 with anybody I reach out to

00:39:45.540 and it's like,

00:39:46.420 here's this thing,

00:39:47.500 understand if you can't

00:39:48.480 get back to me

00:39:49.040 or you don't want to

00:39:49.800 or it's not going to fit

00:39:51.340 because that's how

00:39:52.260 I like to be treated.

00:39:52.880 I mean,

00:39:53.060 for me,

00:39:54.120 like,

00:39:54.300 man,

00:39:54.540 when someone does it,

00:39:55.200 it just takes the pressure off

00:39:56.320 and I don't know.

00:39:57.800 That's,

00:39:58.300 I like to treat others

00:39:59.000 how I like to be treated.

00:40:00.020 So that's my approach.

00:40:01.880 The golden rule,

00:40:02.820 for sure.

00:40:03.460 And I think

00:40:03.960 it does blend,

00:40:05.260 that blends well

00:40:05.860 into another point

00:40:06.800 which is

00:40:07.240 if you're reaching out

00:40:08.740 and helping other people,

00:40:09.700 I want to be really clear

00:40:11.240 that,

00:40:12.060 again,

00:40:12.420 the ABG help other people

00:40:13.700 without the expectation

00:40:14.600 of anything in return.

00:40:15.560 A lot of people say,

00:40:16.560 but I can't help

00:40:17.960 all the people that I know

00:40:19.360 because I'll run out of time

00:40:20.540 to do things for myself.

00:40:22.460 And I want to address that

00:40:23.960 because when I'm saying

00:40:25.420 help other people

00:40:26.120 with something,

00:40:27.080 it doesn't mean

00:40:27.800 that if you're a graphic designer,

00:40:29.540 you make a bunch

00:40:30.340 of free graphics

00:40:31.220 for all of your friends'

00:40:32.600 businesses

00:40:32.900 and you go bankrupt

00:40:33.980 and homeless

00:40:34.540 because you don't make any money,

00:40:35.900 you're helping everybody.

00:40:37.140 I recommend doing

00:40:38.140 helping other people

00:40:39.680 in a scalable way

00:40:40.740 which means

00:40:41.680 introducing people

00:40:42.980 in your network

00:40:43.540 to each other.

00:40:45.020 So if I know somebody

00:40:46.040 who made a bunch of money

00:40:47.020 in Bitcoin,

00:40:48.260 I might say,

00:40:48.980 hey,

00:40:49.260 I know tax time's coming up.

00:40:50.840 You probably don't want

00:40:51.560 to go to federal prison.

00:40:52.620 Do you want a connection

00:40:53.680 to a CPA

00:40:54.340 who knows how to handle

00:40:55.780 cryptocurrency

00:40:56.340 because it's hard

00:40:57.640 to find somebody

00:40:58.280 who understands

00:40:59.040 what this stuff is

00:41:00.140 and isn't going to

00:41:01.020 screw it up?

00:41:02.000 And so I might make

00:41:02.800 that introduction

00:41:03.460 in my network.

00:41:05.100 Now,

00:41:05.380 I've gotten that CPA

00:41:07.380 a client,

00:41:08.300 I've gotten that friend

00:41:09.580 of mine potentially

00:41:10.480 a life-altering connection

00:41:13.020 in terms of making sure

00:41:14.040 he doesn't get screwed over

00:41:15.300 in an IRS audit.

00:41:16.720 They both kind of owe me one

00:41:18.160 but I'm not keeping score,

00:41:20.100 right?

00:41:20.600 Not only am I doing,

00:41:21.680 am I helping multiple people,

00:41:23.040 two people at the same time

00:41:24.080 in my network

00:41:24.820 in a scalable way

00:41:25.680 because those introductions

00:41:26.620 took like five minutes,

00:41:28.540 I'm also not worried

00:41:29.840 about whether or not

00:41:30.480 I get something back

00:41:31.560 because if you keep score,

00:41:33.680 if you're thinking

00:41:34.320 that if I help this person

00:41:35.520 or that person enough,

00:41:36.500 they'll owe me one,

00:41:37.680 you're always going

00:41:38.560 to end up disappointed

00:41:39.580 in your relationships

00:41:40.420 and worse,

00:41:41.840 you'll create

00:41:42.520 a covert contract

00:41:43.620 which is like

00:41:44.220 a one-sided thing.

00:41:45.420 It's like,

00:41:46.060 well,

00:41:46.280 I picked up Brett

00:41:47.220 from the airport

00:41:47.940 five times

00:41:49.040 and then I,

00:41:50.120 you know,

00:41:50.320 hey Brett,

00:41:50.880 will you shill my ebook

00:41:52.260 on rabbit raising

00:41:53.200 on Art of Manliness podcast?

00:41:54.560 You're like,

00:41:54.820 it's not really a good fit.

00:41:56.580 Now,

00:41:56.760 if I've been keeping score

00:41:58.060 and I've got a covert contract

00:41:59.560 in my head

00:42:00.260 which is an agreement

00:42:01.280 that I know about

00:42:02.100 but you don't

00:42:02.820 because it's a one-sided agreement

00:42:04.440 that I made up in my head

00:42:05.740 because I thought

00:42:06.540 if I helped you enough,

00:42:07.420 you'd owe me.

00:42:08.120 Now I get mad at you

00:42:09.220 and you're like, 0.99

00:42:10.020 what the hell? 0.53

00:42:10.440 I thought we were friends 0.95

00:42:11.280 but in my head,

00:42:12.680 it's if I pick you up

00:42:13.700 from the airport

00:42:14.160 five enough times,

00:42:15.400 you owe me this

00:42:16.300 and since we didn't

00:42:17.460 really agree on that,

00:42:18.780 I've poisoned

00:42:19.400 the relationship now,

00:42:21.040 right?

00:42:21.320 I've kept score.

00:42:22.300 I created a covert contract.

00:42:23.760 You didn't fulfill

00:42:24.340 your end of the bargain

00:42:25.180 because you weren't aware of it

00:42:26.460 and now suddenly,

00:42:27.380 I'm being passive-aggressive to you

00:42:29.360 and our friendship dissolves

00:42:30.680 and a lot of people

00:42:32.540 will do that.

00:42:33.700 They'll keep score.

00:42:34.820 They'll do this in a way

00:42:36.140 where they'll give up

00:42:38.100 on helping other people.

00:42:39.620 I would say

00:42:40.160 if you help 100 people,

00:42:41.960 you're going to be lucky

00:42:42.880 if 10 of them

00:42:43.660 are even able

00:42:44.800 to help you back

00:42:45.600 in any way

00:42:46.320 because not everyone's

00:42:47.820 going to be able to do that

00:42:48.700 and so if you're not giving

00:42:50.360 without the expectation

00:42:51.360 of something in return,

00:42:52.440 you're going to miss

00:42:53.060 most of the opportunities

00:42:54.180 because you can't see

00:42:55.700 how other people

00:42:56.840 are going to be able

00:42:57.460 to help you.

00:42:58.040 I say the opportunities

00:42:59.160 are over the horizon, right?

00:43:00.960 I don't necessarily know

00:43:02.340 that connecting

00:43:03.660 the cryptocurrency CPA

00:43:04.920 with the Bitcoin investor guy

00:43:06.420 is going to then result in,

00:43:08.800 hey, Jordan,

00:43:09.340 I'm throwing a real estate conference

00:43:10.920 in Hawaii.

00:43:11.680 Will you come speak?

00:43:12.940 Those two things

00:43:13.820 were invisible

00:43:14.480 until I made the connection

00:43:16.440 six months or a year ago

00:43:18.040 without thinking,

00:43:19.540 hey, if I help out

00:43:20.300 this Bitcoin guy,

00:43:21.120 he'll invite me

00:43:21.620 to his real estate conference, right?

00:43:23.060 I don't know

00:43:23.600 that these opportunities exist.

00:43:25.660 So get used to getting

00:43:26.720 the short end of the stick

00:43:27.740 in that most people

00:43:28.740 won't want

00:43:29.460 or be able to help you back

00:43:31.020 and if you keep score,

00:43:32.600 you're going to go crazy

00:43:33.360 and if you don't, 0.98

00:43:34.280 you won't even care.

00:43:35.240 It won't matter to you

00:43:36.200 and so I highly recommend

00:43:38.360 not keeping track

00:43:40.760 of who you've helped

00:43:41.720 and when you feel

00:43:42.780 they owe you something

00:43:43.560 because you're always

00:43:44.540 going to end up disappointed.

00:43:46.260 That's great.

00:43:46.600 So a lot of great advice there

00:43:48.040 about building

00:43:48.720 your social capital.

00:43:50.140 As you said,

00:43:50.860 I thought you said it great

00:43:51.880 was your social capital

00:43:53.380 is the best insurance policy

00:43:54.540 you can have

00:43:55.080 for those big life changes

00:43:56.980 that you'll face in your life.

00:43:58.680 It is because

00:43:59.680 like I said earlier,

00:44:01.940 I think I said earlier,

00:44:02.900 if I didn't have

00:44:03.860 the relationships

00:44:04.440 that I have now

00:44:05.220 and I had to start over,

00:44:06.160 I'd be in deep trouble.

00:44:07.400 Your network

00:44:08.260 and your skills

00:44:09.460 are the only things

00:44:11.040 that really can't

00:44:12.420 be taken away from you

00:44:13.740 in a court case

00:44:15.760 or in an unexpected

00:44:17.240 change of circumstances.

00:44:19.340 You really aren't going

00:44:20.740 to lose all your relationships

00:44:22.060 at once

00:44:22.600 unless your reputation

00:44:23.580 takes a nosedive.

00:44:24.540 That's a different story.

00:44:26.640 But these are the things

00:44:27.800 that you take with you, right?

00:44:29.240 You can't take

00:44:29.980 your intellectual property

00:44:32.180 or you can't take

00:44:33.680 certain assets

00:44:34.460 or certain team members

00:44:35.500 or your office

00:44:36.820 or your fancy gadgets

00:44:38.740 or whatever,

00:44:39.480 but you can take

00:44:40.360 your relationships

00:44:40.960 and you can take

00:44:42.660 your skills.

00:44:43.620 So I recommend

00:44:44.300 focusing on those,

00:44:45.600 but you have to do both.

00:44:46.860 You can't just focus

00:44:48.080 on being the most skilled

00:44:49.160 because you're leaving

00:44:49.980 so much on the table

00:44:50.920 if you don't have

00:44:52.320 those connections

00:44:52.880 with other people.

00:44:53.760 And so I recommend,

00:44:56.060 honestly,

00:44:57.100 I recommend picking

00:44:58.040 this sort of another

00:44:59.000 piece of homework,

00:44:59.640 but I recommend picking

00:45:00.380 one or two people

00:45:01.320 in your network

00:45:02.200 or in your circle

00:45:03.100 who is a weaker tie,

00:45:04.700 but who you want

00:45:05.240 to have a stronger

00:45:05.800 relationship with

00:45:06.800 and make sure

00:45:09.080 that you invest

00:45:09.720 a little bit more time

00:45:10.560 and energy

00:45:10.940 into hanging out

00:45:11.640 with that person,

00:45:12.520 grabbing some dinner

00:45:13.280 with him and his wife

00:45:14.620 or whatever,

00:45:15.900 going to see

00:45:17.220 how their office runs,

00:45:18.960 just some sort of

00:45:19.980 level of investment

00:45:20.900 in that relationship.

00:45:23.360 And that will go

00:45:24.300 a long way.

00:45:24.980 And once you realize

00:45:25.740 that you can manually

00:45:27.980 strengthen relationships

00:45:29.160 by focusing

00:45:30.000 and investing

00:45:30.580 on them a little bit,

00:45:31.920 you'll want to do

00:45:32.800 more of it.

00:45:33.420 And it will make

00:45:33.980 your network

00:45:34.620 and your circle

00:45:35.200 so strong

00:45:36.080 that when you ever

00:45:37.540 and if you ever

00:45:38.580 need anything,

00:45:39.900 you're not going

00:45:40.860 to feel ashamed

00:45:41.580 reaching out.

00:45:42.220 You're not going

00:45:42.720 to feel embarrassed

00:45:43.640 that you had to

00:45:45.120 put your ego aside

00:45:47.360 and ask someone

00:45:48.040 for something

00:45:48.480 because now you're

00:45:49.140 just talking

00:45:49.640 to your friends.

00:45:50.880 You're not talking

00:45:51.440 with somebody

00:45:51.840 who you've ignored

00:45:52.540 for three years

00:45:53.340 and then asking

00:45:53.900 them to shill your book.

00:45:55.340 It's different.

00:45:56.180 That's great.

00:45:56.920 So this change

00:45:57.680 hasn't just affected you,

00:45:58.740 it's affected other people

00:45:59.640 as well.

00:46:00.140 You mentioned

00:46:00.520 your team

00:46:02.140 that has been

00:46:03.220 with you for a while

00:46:03.940 has been affected.

00:46:04.720 I mean,

00:46:04.920 what's been your strategy

00:46:07.200 in leading your team

00:46:09.620 in this big transition?

00:46:11.540 I mean,

00:46:11.720 sort of like

00:46:12.340 crisis management,

00:46:13.860 I guess you'd call it.

00:46:15.080 Yeah.

00:46:15.360 So you know

00:46:16.320 what was funny

00:46:16.840 is my wife 0.53

00:46:18.580 and producer

00:46:19.440 were saying

00:46:20.320 put on a brave face

00:46:21.320 for the team,

00:46:22.040 make sure everybody's

00:46:22.840 taken care of

00:46:23.680 and I was planning

00:46:25.240 to do that,

00:46:25.940 you know,

00:46:26.280 of course

00:46:26.720 and I'll tell you

00:46:28.020 I did that okay

00:46:28.920 in the beginning

00:46:29.660 and then when I started

00:46:31.260 to stumble

00:46:32.540 and feel a little bit

00:46:33.640 bad about

00:46:34.580 how things were

00:46:35.240 turning out

00:46:35.660 or feel discouraged,

00:46:36.760 I was pleasantly surprised

00:46:38.620 at how the team

00:46:39.460 actually rallied

00:46:40.220 around me.

00:46:40.900 So I rallied

00:46:42.420 around them

00:46:43.460 initially

00:46:44.380 so that I called everyone,

00:46:46.100 told them exactly

00:46:46.700 what was going on,

00:46:47.920 made sure that they felt

00:46:48.740 secure financially

00:46:49.740 as much as I could,

00:46:51.280 made sure that they knew

00:46:52.180 what was happening,

00:46:53.000 that they weren't going

00:46:53.500 to suddenly end up

00:46:54.300 being tossed out 0.99

00:46:55.040 on their butt 0.99

00:46:55.480 for no reason 0.99

00:46:56.080 with no warning.

00:46:57.180 I made sure of that

00:46:58.320 and then a few days

00:46:59.400 or a few weeks later

00:47:00.220 the timeline's escaping me now

00:47:01.740 when I started to feel down

00:47:03.560 or overwhelmed

00:47:04.300 or lose a little bit

00:47:05.260 of confidence,

00:47:06.300 my producer,

00:47:07.380 my associate producers,

00:47:08.660 everybody around me

00:47:09.420 and my team,

00:47:09.860 they're the ones

00:47:10.540 who said,

00:47:11.040 hey man,

00:47:11.900 we are all behind you.

00:47:13.820 You did this before.

00:47:15.000 We're excited.

00:47:16.120 You're the last one

00:47:16.960 who's not on board

00:47:18.160 the exciting

00:47:19.220 let's move forward train. 0.97

00:47:21.180 You know,

00:47:21.340 this is the Jordan Harbinger show.

00:47:22.660 You're Jordan Harbinger.

00:47:23.520 Why is everybody else

00:47:24.340 more excited than you?

00:47:25.400 You know,

00:47:25.600 pull your pants up

00:47:26.240 and get back to work

00:47:26.920 and that was very helpful.

00:47:28.300 So I guess

00:47:29.340 I led my team

00:47:30.560 by putting on a brave face

00:47:31.740 and making sure

00:47:32.420 they knew what was happening

00:47:33.460 and I led my team

00:47:34.780 by making sure

00:47:35.680 that they felt safe

00:47:37.440 but the team led me

00:47:39.280 just as much

00:47:40.180 as I led them

00:47:40.980 through this

00:47:41.560 particular challenge.

00:47:43.100 And you're married too

00:47:43.980 and like these big changes

00:47:45.340 I'm sure

00:47:45.680 when a guy loses his job

00:47:47.500 that affects

00:47:48.800 you know,

00:47:49.700 his personal life,

00:47:50.640 his married life,

00:47:51.600 his family life.

00:47:52.500 What was that

00:47:53.280 been like

00:47:53.960 for you and your wife

00:47:54.840 to go through this?

00:47:55.560 And like

00:47:55.780 it's happened

00:47:56.380 like right after

00:47:57.140 like how long

00:47:57.660 have you been married?

00:47:58.280 Is it like a year

00:47:59.080 or less than a year?

00:47:59.820 Not even.

00:48:00.500 I got married in May

00:48:01.560 and it's like

00:48:02.260 you know,

00:48:03.120 I mean,

00:48:03.900 we're not even

00:48:04.540 not even at a year yet

00:48:06.020 and it brought us

00:48:09.000 closer together.

00:48:09.600 I know it sounds cliche

00:48:10.400 but people were saying

00:48:12.540 don't fight with your spouse.

00:48:14.020 You know,

00:48:14.140 don't fight with your spouse.

00:48:15.220 I know it's going to be tempting

00:48:16.040 because you're going to be stressed.

00:48:16.860 Don't fight with your spouse.

00:48:17.700 We have not fought

00:48:18.720 at really at all

00:48:20.560 especially not about this.

00:48:22.540 She's had my back

00:48:23.320 the whole way.

00:48:24.600 I've been making sure

00:48:25.740 that she's sort of

00:48:26.360 taken care of

00:48:27.140 with that

00:48:27.920 you know,

00:48:28.180 not stressing

00:48:28.800 not worrying about

00:48:30.000 a lot of stuff.

00:48:30.840 We've really been

00:48:31.940 pushed much closer.

00:48:33.520 The whole team has

00:48:34.360 but certainly

00:48:35.000 my wife and I

00:48:36.160 because not only am I married

00:48:37.200 I think it's prudent to note

00:48:38.220 not only am I married

00:48:39.500 my wife works with me

00:48:40.980 from home.

00:48:41.840 So we're together 24-7

00:48:43.200 and she's working 0.95

00:48:44.260 on the business.

00:48:45.760 She's working on

00:48:46.420 the Jordan Harbinger show

00:48:47.360 stuff behind the scenes

00:48:48.500 with me.

00:48:49.700 So it's not just

00:48:51.140 she's a housewife 1.00

00:48:53.440 and keeping everything

00:48:54.580 safe at home

00:48:55.160 which would be

00:48:55.720 which is awesome

00:48:56.920 and I think

00:48:58.040 any guy that has that

00:48:59.300 is super lucky

00:49:00.020 and it's not that

00:49:01.100 she gets home from work

00:49:01.920 and she's emotionally

00:49:02.620 supportive.

00:49:03.900 She's there with me

00:49:05.120 every step of the way.

00:49:06.720 She's grinding 1.00

00:49:07.500 just like I am.

00:49:08.680 She's hustling

00:49:09.220 just like I am

00:49:10.200 and that's brought us

00:49:12.520 closer together

00:49:13.280 and I think anybody

00:49:14.460 who has a supportive spouse

00:49:15.680 especially somebody

00:49:16.540 who is keeping

00:49:17.420 their house in order

00:49:19.800 and I don't mean that

00:49:20.600 literally

00:49:21.000 I mean that metaphorically

00:49:22.040 like making sure

00:49:23.160 that you don't have to

00:49:23.840 worry about

00:49:24.440 little things

00:49:25.640 because you have to

00:49:26.240 focus on the business

00:49:27.020 that's just been

00:49:28.060 such a huge help

00:49:29.160 and so having

00:49:30.420 a partner

00:49:31.320 spouse

00:49:32.820 or significant other

00:49:33.860 that's really

00:49:34.520 emotionally supportive

00:49:35.420 is great

00:49:35.900 but also having

00:49:37.340 somebody who's capable

00:49:38.360 and picking up

00:49:39.760 the slack for you

00:49:40.860 when you really need

00:49:41.720 them has been

00:49:42.360 indispensable.

00:49:43.240 So it's helped

00:49:44.060 our relationship a lot

00:49:45.180 because I'll be honest

00:49:46.560 I used to have

00:49:47.100 kind of a short fuse

00:49:48.040 and stress would get to me

00:49:49.180 and now that I'm facing

00:49:50.300 real stress

00:49:50.980 I had to decide

00:49:51.980 am I just going to

00:49:52.640 blow a gasket

00:49:53.300 every five minutes

00:49:54.080 or am I going to

00:49:54.660 get myself together

00:49:56.580 and not rely on

00:49:58.260 my emotions

00:49:59.020 and anger

00:49:59.820 to vent

00:50:00.380 because people

00:50:01.500 don't want to be

00:50:02.000 around that

00:50:02.480 and it was either

00:50:04.640 going to be

00:50:05.160 a long time 0.78

00:50:06.000 of me being a grump

00:50:07.360 or it was going to

00:50:08.280 be a long time

00:50:08.940 of me figuring out

00:50:09.800 how to manage

00:50:10.360 that particular

00:50:11.040 emotional BS

00:50:11.900 and not do it anymore

00:50:13.240 and I'm really glad

00:50:14.380 to say that

00:50:15.060 I have not

00:50:16.640 had as much

00:50:17.840 of a problem

00:50:18.380 recently

00:50:19.000 as I have in the past

00:50:20.040 which is unusual

00:50:20.720 right

00:50:21.080 little things

00:50:22.020 in the past

00:50:22.500 used to make me

00:50:23.320 really annoyed

00:50:24.400 and irritated

00:50:25.000 and vocal about it

00:50:26.080 and now that I have

00:50:27.160 real issues to deal with

00:50:28.540 I'm much more calm

00:50:29.900 than I ever was

00:50:30.620 and I'm not totally

00:50:31.300 sure why that is

00:50:32.340 yeah

00:50:32.620 no I think you had

00:50:33.760 a blog post

00:50:34.580 recently about

00:50:35.480 where you quote

00:50:36.420 that movie

00:50:37.020 with Tom Hanks

00:50:37.740 about the Russian spies

00:50:39.080 right

00:50:40.040 bridge of spies

00:50:41.200 bridge of spies

00:50:42.020 yeah

00:50:42.440 Tom Hanks

00:50:43.240 is the lawyer

00:50:44.980 for this

00:50:45.520 East German spy

00:50:46.960 who's got a death

00:50:48.420 sentence

00:50:48.740 and he goes

00:50:49.040 aren't you worried

00:50:49.940 and he goes

00:50:50.460 would it help

00:50:51.180 and of course

00:50:52.260 the rhetorical answer

00:50:53.140 there

00:50:53.420 or the rhetorical question

00:50:54.560 the answer is

00:50:55.220 no of course not

00:50:56.260 worrying about

00:50:57.260 what's going to happen

00:50:57.940 next

00:50:58.320 is not going to help

00:51:00.180 figuring out

00:51:00.960 what you're going to do

00:51:01.840 how you might react

00:51:02.840 what your next step is

00:51:03.960 that's helpful

00:51:04.580 but once you've figured

00:51:05.440 that out

00:51:05.900 get back to work

00:51:07.220 stop figuring out

00:51:08.660 stop figuring out

00:51:09.580 what ifs

00:51:10.400 that can drive you crazy

00:51:11.440 because your brain 0.92

00:51:12.300 is

00:51:13.000 has

00:51:13.720 all kinds of experience

00:51:15.580 figuring out

00:51:16.160 how to make you

00:51:16.920 unstable

00:51:17.780 insecure

00:51:18.480 or uneasy

00:51:19.780 don't give it

00:51:21.120 room to do that

00:51:22.240 getting back to work

00:51:23.440 not worrying

00:51:24.300 as much as you can

00:51:25.380 that's what's going

00:51:26.440 to keep your brain

00:51:27.180 busy moving forward

00:51:28.720 and that was the

00:51:29.440 antidote for me

00:51:30.080 like I said

00:51:30.660 Jordan

00:51:31.220 this has been a

00:51:31.600 great conversation

00:51:32.280 where can people

00:51:32.800 go to learn more

00:51:33.480 about the new show

00:51:34.220 yeah

00:51:34.680 so

00:51:35.020 jordanharbinger.com

00:51:36.580 slash podcast

00:51:37.100 is the website

00:51:37.800 but really

00:51:38.260 you're listening

00:51:38.720 to a podcast

00:51:39.360 find the Jordan

00:51:40.700 Harbinger show

00:51:41.500 in your podcast

00:51:42.800 player

00:51:43.160 iTunes

00:51:43.640 whatever you're

00:51:44.140 using to listen

00:51:44.680 to this

00:51:44.920 and I know

00:51:45.300 we have

00:51:45.820 a lot of

00:51:46.800 former

00:51:47.180 art of charm

00:51:47.940 listeners

00:51:49.040 and since I'm

00:51:49.840 no longer there

00:51:50.480 I'd love it

00:51:51.160 if people would

00:51:51.600 come find me

00:51:52.080 at the Jordan

00:51:52.460 Harbinger show

00:51:53.060 similar quality

00:51:53.960 more open topics

00:51:55.680 and I'd like to

00:51:56.560 think

00:51:56.840 an even better

00:51:57.880 show

00:51:58.220 now that we

00:51:58.740 don't have to

00:51:59.080 worry about

00:51:59.560 the

00:51:59.840 the sort of

00:52:01.500 the baggage

00:52:01.880 of the old

00:52:02.280 brand

00:52:02.580 so I'm

00:52:03.180 looking forward

00:52:03.640 to seeing

00:52:04.000 what people

00:52:04.380 think

00:52:04.720 all right

00:52:05.460 Jordan

00:52:05.660 Harbinger

00:52:06.040 thank you so

00:52:06.620 much for

00:52:06.800 your time

00:52:06.960 it's been

00:52:07.220 a pleasure

00:52:07.540 thanks man

00:52:08.380 my guest

00:52:09.020 today was

00:52:09.240 Jordan

00:52:09.460 Harbinger

00:52:09.840 he's the

00:52:10.220 host of

00:52:10.540 the Jordan

00:52:10.880 Harbinger

00:52:11.320 show

00:52:11.520 you can find

00:52:11.960 that on

00:52:12.440 anywhere

00:52:12.760 where podcasts

00:52:13.600 are found

00:52:14.080 search it

00:52:14.480 for iTunes

00:52:15.040 Spotify

00:52:15.600 you name it

00:52:16.620 it's there

00:52:16.840 just look

00:52:17.140 for the

00:52:17.380 Jordan

00:52:17.600 Harbinger

00:52:17.980 show

00:52:18.240 also check

00:52:18.800 out our

00:52:19.000 show notes

00:52:19.340 at

00:52:19.500 aom.is

00:52:20.640 slash

00:52:21.040 Harbinger

00:52:21.520 where you can

00:52:21.880 find links

00:52:22.200 to resources

00:52:22.800 where you can

00:52:23.120 delve deeper

00:52:23.540 into this

00:52:23.880 topic

00:52:24.180 well that

00:52:36.800 wraps up

00:52:37.220 another edition

00:52:37.840 of the

00:52:38.180 art of

00:52:38.540 manliness

00:52:38.900 podcast

00:52:39.280 for more

00:52:39.760 manly tips

00:52:40.220 and advice

00:52:40.540 make sure

00:52:40.980 to check

00:52:41.180 out the

00:52:41.400 art of

00:52:41.660 manliness

00:52:41.940 website

00:52:42.360 at

00:52:42.520 art of

00:52:42.800 manliness

00:52:43.120 dot com

00:52:43.600 and if

00:52:43.860 you enjoy

00:52:44.180 the podcast

00:52:44.760 I've gotten

00:52:45.120 something out

00:52:45.540 of it

00:52:45.700 since you've

00:52:46.000 been listening

00:52:46.300 to it

00:52:46.620 I'd appreciate

00:52:47.080 if you'd

00:52:47.380 take a minute

00:52:47.820 to give us

00:52:48.200 a review

00:52:48.420 on iTunes

00:52:48.920 or Stitcher

00:52:49.400 it helps

00:52:49.680 out a lot

00:52:50.120 and if you've

00:52:50.440 done that

00:52:50.720 already

00:52:50.980 thank you

00:52:51.520 please share

00:52:52.180 the show

00:52:52.500 with a friend

00:52:52.920 or family

00:52:53.260 member

00:52:53.540 who you think

00:52:54.080 would get

00:52:54.360 something out

00:52:54.800 of it

00:52:55.000 as always

00:52:55.560 thank you

00:52:56.120 for your

00:52:56.400 continued

00:52:56.620 support

00:52:57.000 and until

00:52:57.380 next time

00:52:57.820 this is

00:52:58.060 Brett McKay

00:52:58.560 telling you

00:52:58.980 to stay

00:52:59.540 manly

The Art of Manliness - April 04, 2018

#393： The Importance of Building Your Social Capital

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