The Art of Manliness - #422： Men & Manners — Tipping, Emojis, and Much More

00:00:00.000 Hello, Brett here. Before we get to today's show, got a quick favor to ask of you. If you've been

00:00:03.880 enjoying the Art of Manliness podcast, I'd really appreciate it if you take one minute to give us

00:00:07.680 a review on iTunes or Stitcher. It helps us out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you

00:00:11.720 so much. Please consider sharing the show with a friend or family member if you would think would

00:00:15.120 get something out of it. Word of mouth is the primary way the Art of Manliness grows and spreads.

00:00:19.240 So please share. Text a friend, send an email, do whatever, however you communicate. Tell them to

00:00:23.760 check out a particular episode if you think they'd get something out of it. Thank you for

00:00:26.200 your support and now on to the show. This episode of the Art of Manliness podcast is brought to you

00:00:30.640 by RevTown Denim. We wear jeans everywhere still. They're always a little stiff, constricting in the

00:00:35.600 wrong places and probably the first thing you take off when you get home. But now there's a denim

00:00:39.280 startup that's changing that. RevTown is home to premium jeans at a revolutionary price. It just

00:00:44.160 got the right amount of four-way stretch. These jeans let you sit, squat, bend over, whatever. You

00:00:48.640 can do barbell squats in these things. They're super comfortable, but they also look great. My favorite

00:00:53.600 is their Decade Denim, the dark wash, dark pair of jeans. Looks fantastic. And they're sold directly

00:00:58.720 to you at RevTownUSA.com slash AOM for half the price of designer jeans. So go check them out.

00:01:04.540 We'll even give you free shipping and free returns so you got nothing to lose. Go to

00:01:07.880 RevTownUSA.com slash AOM. One more time, RevTownUSA.com slash AOM.

00:01:23.600 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. They say that

00:01:33.920 manners make the man, but how do you display good manners without coming off as awkward in

00:01:38.520 a way that elevates life both for yourself and for others? Today on the show, I bring

00:01:42.560 back writer David Coggins to discuss etiquette and manners in the modern age. I had David on

00:01:46.600 the show a year ago to discuss his book, Men in Style. He's out with a new book called Men

00:01:50.420 and Manners. Today on the show, David shares how style and manners are connected and why

00:01:54.040 good manners are like good poetry. He then discusses the best etiquette practice concerning

00:01:58.480 tipping, greetings, attending parties, textings, and we end our conversation highlighting the

00:02:02.840 grace and power of handwritten notes. After the show's over, check out the show notes at

00:02:06.980 AOM.IS slash Men in Manners. And David joins me now via clearcast.io.

00:02:20.420 All right, David Coggins, welcome back to the show.

00:02:30.800 Thanks, Brett. Great to be here.

00:02:32.340 So we had you on, I think, last year about your book, Men in Style, where you kind of give

00:02:37.440 your take on what a stylish man should be doing, but you also interview a lot of your friends

00:02:44.180 and tastemakers about their take on style. You got a new book out, Men in Manners, this

00:02:51.160 time. I'm curious, what was interesting about the book, it's about etiquette, it's about

00:02:55.220 manners, but you also tie it into the Men in Style book. How are style and manners connected

00:03:02.860 to each other, do you think?

00:03:04.920 Well, that's a good question. I think they both say something about, well, the man, how you

00:03:10.340 dress says a lot about you and how you conduct yourself in public says a lot about you. I

00:03:14.220 think it says about how you think you fit into the world. I think clothes are probably

00:03:19.560 more superficial, but there's definitely meaning there. And manners are really how we interact

00:03:25.540 with strangers and people we know alike. And so having thought a lot about clothes, not

00:03:31.320 really specifics about the clothes, but what they tell us about ourselves, how our fathers

00:03:36.200 dress, that was a big theme in the last book, what we learn from our fathers. I think that

00:03:41.580 sort of holds over into the new book, the manners we learn from our dad, kind of the traditions

00:03:47.860 that are worth carrying forward and also how we have to evolve because manners are not the

00:03:51.400 same as they were certainly not a hundred years ago or 50 years ago, even when we were

00:03:55.440 kids.

00:03:56.040 Right. Because we have cell phones now, right? That didn't exist.

00:03:59.360 Technology is a huge issue. I mean, everybody knows it. I think having a computer with us

00:04:07.380 at all times, an iPhone, changes the way we interact with people and our sense of self-awareness.

00:04:14.600 I think too often it maybe makes us feel more isolated or makes us feel like we're kind of

00:04:20.000 at the center of our world, walking around with our earphones. We don't look up. And I think

00:04:25.320 that's sort of a metaphor for a lot of how we are in the public sphere.

00:04:29.480 Yeah. Well, we'll get back into your take on technology and etiquette. But what I thought

00:04:34.000 was an interesting point, we hit on it in our last conversation, but you made the case that the

00:04:38.920 way you dress isn't just for you, but it's also for other people. And it's a way to show that you

00:04:45.000 care about them. So in a way, dressing well is a way to show, it's a form of etiquette in a way.

00:04:52.560 Yeah. Absolutely. In the simplest sense, it shows a sense of occasion. That's why people dress up to

00:04:58.080 go to church, to parties, to work, to interviews, to court, right? On a first date, all those things

00:05:04.600 are hugely consequential to varying degrees. And how you dress for them shows a lot about who you

00:05:11.720 think you are, but also your respect for the people around you. And I think somehow we've gone

00:05:16.580 into this zone where it's all about being comfortable, right? And as long as I'm comfortable,

00:05:21.300 I'm fine. And that's why you have people in track suits everywhere you go, especially on

00:05:25.320 airplanes. But that's also why maybe you look to try to be comfortable in something that's a little

00:05:30.980 more elegant. And that's nice too. And I think we can challenge ourselves to ask a little more about

00:05:37.820 what makes the level of comfort we can have and how we dress.

00:05:41.780 Yeah. I mean, yeah. My father-in-law, he always talks about that. Back in the day,

00:05:45.540 when you flew on an airplane, you had to get dressed up. You wore a jacket at least and a

00:05:51.120 pair of slacks, but now you're wearing yoga pants and shorts and sandals.

00:05:55.740 When I see a man wearing a suit or a sport coat on an airplane, I feel a little elevated in a way,

00:06:01.900 not to get carried away. But it's nice to see someone making an effort. I think that

00:06:06.120 makes us feel like we can make an effort too. And just on top of all that, if you don't feel the

00:06:11.840 need to do it for those reasons, I read that Delta and some other airlines, there's a small

00:06:16.560 chance that they'll upgrade you, people who are well-dressed and sort of dignified and well-mannered.

00:06:21.760 So if you need any more reason to do it than that, I don't know what it could be than

00:06:26.140 getting a better seat on the plane.

00:06:28.060 Right. Yeah. Traveling is already, like flying an airplane is already miserable.

00:06:31.400 One thing we can do is just, you know, everyone kind of dress up a little bit so it feels a little

00:06:35.380 bit more dignified. Because it already is like an undignified experience.

00:06:38.280 Well, traveling, and there's a whole chapter in the book on that, because I think it's where we

00:06:42.480 deal with the most people, the most strangers. And there are these rules and some of them seem

00:06:47.480 arbitrary. Some of them are sort of longstanding and it kind of descends into a free-for-all.

00:06:52.300 And I've been, as someone who travels a fair amount, I've been trying to kind of monitor myself

00:06:57.040 and see what I could do to behave a little better and not, I think somehow it seems like everyone's got

00:07:02.720 to rush onto the plane and get the last overhead bin or get the last outlet in the lounge.

00:07:07.240 And I was trying to figure out ways to just avoid putting myself in that position.

00:07:11.920 And hopefully, you know, we're all going to get on the plane for the most part in

00:07:15.780 five extra seconds. I think if we all took kind of five extra seconds, we would be in a better spot.

00:07:20.940 So I want to get your take on those. Because we had podcasts, people on the podcast talking

00:07:24.200 about this when it comes to traveling. What's your take? And it's controversial.

00:07:28.180 All right. What's your take on wheelie luggage?

00:07:30.300 So it's funny you ask that. I'm one of the last people who is not for roller bags. I think

00:07:37.800 I really believe in packing light. I think you need way less than you think you need. I actually

00:07:43.720 think you learn more about how to dress well if you bring a limited collection of clothes. I think

00:07:48.820 you'll always wish you pack less. And you look just more dignified. You can move more quickly.

00:07:55.080 There's a time in every trip where you wish you just had a light bag and not a roller bag,

00:08:00.820 whether you're going over cobblestones in a European street or when you have to go further

00:08:04.860 from the taxi to the airplane. So I personally am not for them. I realize that puts me in the

00:08:11.480 hopeless minority. But even if you carry a wheelie bag, I definitely say bring way, way less than 1.00

00:08:17.480 you think. And find some shirts that you can wash yourself and don't get wrinkled.

00:08:22.920 And I love a man, a well-dressed man who does his own laundry while he travels. I think that's

00:08:27.980 a very elegant solution.

00:08:30.240 Yeah. Walker Lamond, he wrote Rules for My Unborn Son. That was one of his rules. No wheelie luggage.

00:08:36.960 Cosign. Strong cosign on that. But I think I've lost that one.

00:08:40.400 Yeah, we've lost. So talking about it's possible to be comfortable while looking good. I mean,

00:08:47.440 what are some style staples you recommend that every guy should have that you can throw on?

00:08:52.480 It feels like you're wearing a sweatsuit, but you look good.

00:08:57.640 That's sort of the grail, isn't it? I mean, I think I always tell people an unstructured blue

00:09:02.880 blazer is just really the first thing to invest in. I think partly because it's so versatile,

00:09:08.740 you can wear it with a shirt and tie to a job interview or an event, and you can wear it with

00:09:13.420 jeans. So I think an unstructured one isn't going to, if it's in kind of a, I guess you'd say a three

00:09:19.020 season wool, not to get too technical, isn't going to wrinkle as much. I'm really against things that

00:09:23.940 wrinkle when I travel and that helps, I think. So like I mentioned before, an Oxford shirt is really

00:09:28.820 good. You can literally wash it yourself and let it dry. I was just in Italy and doing that and I

00:09:34.200 felt a little bit like a Neapolitan kind of housewife from the 1920s or something. I loved it

00:09:39.920 hanging laundry outside my hotel window on the shutters. I also think trousers that, you know,

00:09:46.520 like a sort of Chino, I guess you'd say something that maybe even the matching color is the sport

00:09:52.540 coat. So then you've, you've got something that you can wear casually and comfortably and slip on

00:09:58.540 shoes are really, really a good way to go. Some sort of loafer, something like that. You know,

00:10:03.040 you'll find the thing that makes sense for you. I think you just start there and then it evolves as

00:10:07.660 you evolve. I think so many people when they're young, they think they've got to get all the

00:10:12.460 answers all at once. That's a hard thing for, to do for any of us. That's why your taste in music

00:10:17.640 changes, your taste in literature and film changes and how you dress and changes as well. So you don't

00:10:23.500 need to have it all figured out, but if you make a good faith effort, I think that's a really good

00:10:27.820 start. All right. So dressing well is one way we can show etiquette to the, to others. I love this.

00:10:35.140 You have this section where you talk about how manners are like poetry, which I thought

00:10:40.020 wasn't interesting because I never heard of manners spoken like the way. How are manners

00:10:42.980 like poetry? Well, that's an interesting question. I asked a handful of people to contribute to the

00:10:47.620 book, people who are experts in given topics. So there's a bartender, there's a man who owns a few

00:10:52.920 restaurants, there's someone who makes stationery. And I asked a poet, a man named Dobby Gibson,

00:10:57.020 who's from St. Paul, Minnesota. I'm from St. Paul as well. And he's the one who said manners

00:11:01.280 were like poetry. And I loved that idea. And he says, he says it in some way that we find them

00:11:07.340 lacking in our lives far too often, both manners and poetry, but then they invariably come back when

00:11:14.300 you least expect it or when you're not expecting them. Meaning you find poetry in everyday life where

00:11:18.580 you need manners you're called upon to do the right thing and that they will always be with us even when

00:11:23.500 we can't see them. So I loved that idea. And so that had a sort of prominent part in the book.

00:11:30.040 And I also say just, we don't know a lot of poets. I think the people who know the most poets are poets

00:11:35.520 probably. And so it's nice to hear from someone who's a successful person and a professor and a

00:11:41.720 really nice man. And his section in the book was really nice. And I thought that was nice to think

00:11:47.280 about it because I don't think manners are just transactional. I think it's about being the best

00:11:51.920 version of yourself. I think that's really a theme throughout the book.

00:11:54.680 Another way, after I read that and I was thinking about it, another way I think manners are like

00:11:57.740 poetry. There are some really hokey poems, right? But there's also really hokey... You can be really

00:12:05.080 hokey with your manners and where it comes off stilted and awkward. And the best poems are the

00:12:10.940 ones that are just like, it's super subtle, then it just wallops you without even knowing you're

00:12:16.560 being walloped. And I feel like that's with manners too. There's some people who... It's very

00:12:21.740 awkward when they're trying to be polite. But there's some people who just... It comes naturally

00:12:26.000 and you just feel good after interacting with them. And you can't really pinpoint why that is.

00:12:32.780 That's so true. I love... I think something about poetry is that it starts in a very personal way,

00:12:38.800 but it also is universal as well. That's how we connect to it, like a pop song or something.

00:12:43.760 And there's something to be said about people who put you at ease. And you can't always put your

00:12:47.940 finger on how they do that. And that's something I'm trying to improve on as I get older and interact

00:12:53.800 with more people. How do we make someone feel comfortable? And we do that in a thousand

00:13:00.100 different ways, eye contact, tone of voice, smiling. And a lot of things we were taught

00:13:05.760 and maybe forgot or our lives are moving so fast or whatever it is that we think they don't matter.

00:13:11.000 And then when you're around someone who's good at that, it's just such a wonderful thing.

00:13:15.220 And it kind of makes you want to be a little bit better too at that. And that's sort of where

00:13:20.820 the idea of being a gentleman is in the first place, a gentleness, a kindness, and a way of

00:13:25.980 putting other people at ease. And when you can do that, that's a pretty good place to be.

00:13:31.860 All right. So let's get into specifics because this is the fun stuff. Everyone loves to talk about...

00:13:36.260 Because everyone has their take on what's proper etiquette in certain situations.

00:13:40.360 Tipping is a uniquely American phenomenon, but there's a lot of debate about what's a proper

00:13:46.640 tipping etiquette. So what's your take on proper tipping etiquette? Should you tip

00:13:51.260 everybody? Should you be generous? Is it 10%, 20%? What is your take?

00:13:56.220 Tipping is huge. It's the first chapter in the book for that reason. I think it drives us crazy

00:14:01.200 because we have to make mental calculations. It's a social interaction. Sometimes I honestly think

00:14:07.900 one reason that Uber and certain online apps are popular is because it takes service out of it.

00:14:14.960 You can just get out of the car and you don't have to do that. I think it's important to be a good

00:14:19.200 tipper. I think that's the first thing. I think you want to be a man who tips well, not just because

00:14:24.700 you'll get better service, though I think you will, but because of what it means and how you view the way

00:14:29.500 you interact with people every day. And so you don't want to be the person who's trying to give a

00:14:35.160 dollar less. You want to be the person who gives a dollar more. And if everyone gave a dollar more

00:14:39.640 to the waitress or the bartender, then he or she's had a good night. And you want to be that person.

00:14:44.300 So if you start with that idea, that's the best place to do it. Then you can get into rules.

00:14:51.460 And I think when I was younger, you gave someone a dollar a drink and now that seems wrong. So you

00:14:55.660 give them, I start with a few dollars a drink. If I'm at a bar, maybe more. And then I tip a dollar

00:15:01.280 or so after that. And at the end of the evening, I give them a little more above that. It depends

00:15:06.320 what type of place it is. I think if I ever sit down to a restaurant, here's a little rule.

00:15:11.480 Even if it's a diner, anytime I'm seated at a table, I will always tip at least $5, even if

00:15:17.780 the bill was, let's say, $10. I just think of $5 as a nice thing. And I also take into account if,

00:15:24.680 let's say, I'm on one of my not drinking phases and I'm just having a mineral water at a bar,

00:15:29.280 I'll tip more than just 20% because that drink is cheap and I'm taking up real estate.

00:15:35.020 If you've logged a lot of time at a bar or restaurant, I think you kind of want to tip

00:15:39.740 for the space that you're occupying. You just want to do the right thing. I think it's,

00:15:46.360 you generally, I mean, people have all these rules and rules are a good place to start.

00:15:50.420 If you want to ask me, do I tip 20% at a restaurant? I do. If I have really expensive wine,

00:15:55.400 then I probably tip a little bit less than that because I don't think you need to tip

00:15:58.900 20% on bottles of wine that are really expensive. And I think if you're at a hotel,

00:16:05.040 do you want to be a person who's welcome back? I mean, everyone is going to know about your habits

00:16:10.220 at a restaurant you go to a lot or a hotel. So when I leave a hotel, I leave a little bit of

00:16:15.040 money for the maid. If the concierge has helped me a lot, I leave an envelope for him. I always think

00:16:19.740 it's better to leave money in an envelope. At the end of the year, if there's a place that you do

00:16:24.460 a lot of business with, if you have a barber, a dry cleaner, anyone, somebody, if you have a

00:16:30.260 doorman in your building, put some money in an envelope and give it to them. It's a nice thing

00:16:35.100 to do. And I think one of the themes of the book is when you have arrived at the age where it's time

00:16:42.200 to do these more mature things. And I think for a long time, that's the sort of thing your dad did

00:16:47.880 while you're a younger guy. But then now it's your turn. It's our turn to make the more generous

00:16:53.520 overture to the people in our lives. That even means giving money to a charity. Those seem like

00:16:59.520 the sort of thing your grandparents did. And now as we get older, it's the sort of thing we should

00:17:03.260 be doing too. What about tipping baristas or people who have tip jars? This is really tough because I

00:17:09.860 think if the person is engaging with you, I don't think every tip jar needs to be filled. I think

00:17:16.060 that's important too. And if you go into a place and someone's sullen and you've already paid a lot

00:17:21.640 for some sort of juice that, you know, way more than you should have, then you don't need to be

00:17:25.500 giving money on top of that. I think if it's a place you go a lot, it's a nice thing to do. And I

00:17:30.520 think they recognize it. If you have a nice interaction, it's positive and you say, thank you.

00:17:36.380 And if you don't, maybe you take a pass or just give some loose change. But that's the toughest one

00:17:41.960 of all. Cause you're so close to the person and there's usually a line behind you. Right. And

00:17:46.240 they're looking at you. They, I just gave you change. Absolutely. Well, I think that's the

00:17:51.720 tough, tough one. If you, if you feel some sympathy, some sympathy and some frequency to this place,

00:17:58.520 I think it's usually a good idea, but you know, not everything deserves a tip.

00:18:02.160 So the other thing I find awkward sometimes I've gotten better about it though, is, is handing off a

00:18:07.300 tip directly to somebody. Cause like leaving a tip for a waiter is easy. You just leave it there and you

00:18:11.160 don't have, but like when you're like, Hey, thank you. And you like hand the person money for some

00:18:16.940 reason, it just feels really awkward. Right. Or it can feel awkward. So like, how do you, how do you do

00:18:21.440 that? Where you're like, you know, you don't want to be sleazy about it where you're like, you know,

00:18:24.600 shake their hand and like you pass the money without anyone noticing. And like, well, how do you,

00:18:29.540 how do you, what's your take on handing off a tip like gracefully? I mean, it's, it's such a classic

00:18:35.140 situation. I mean, I think somehow it's from sort of bad cop TV shows where they're sticking

00:18:40.700 $20 in the, you know, the chest pocket of someone. And it just couldn't be worse. I think you just

00:18:46.060 say, thank you. We had a great time. Or if, you know, if I often at a, you know, I get my beard

00:18:51.280 trim and I usually give the man $5. So I just say, thanks a lot. And I hand it to him and I shake his

00:18:56.200 hand and I don't put it in my hand. I just hand them, you know, a folded up bill and, and try to,

00:19:03.240 it's an inherently awkward situation. If it's a valet, I just say, thanks a lot, look at him and hand the

00:19:09.020 money over to him and, you know, they, they'll take it. Right. Right. That's part of it. And if

00:19:14.020 you, you know, they'll, you just want to put this awkward five seconds in the middle of a friendly

00:19:20.020 45 seconds, it's, that's never going to go away. You just get used to it. You know, I think in

00:19:25.560 general, all of these things we do in our lives are awkward at some point and just doing them more

00:19:30.440 puts us more at ease and the more at ease we are, that's going to put who we're dealing with more

00:19:35.400 at ease. You know, it's just like when you dine out with a, you know, with, at a fancy restaurant

00:19:40.280 and they hand you the menu and, you know, I think you want to be slowed down and it will be fine.

00:19:46.840 I think we often are so worried about doing the right thing or following these rules that we sort

00:19:51.540 of lose our level of natural, naturalism. And the more natural you are, probably the better off you'll

00:19:57.620 be, but it takes work and experience and time to do that, you know? Yeah. So it's going to be

00:20:01.940 awkward at first, but you'll get, yeah, that's how, but it's been my experience. I've gotten better

00:20:04.520 about it. Does it, it's completely normal now. I mean, I've tracked down people, you know,

00:20:09.100 sometimes I'm obsessed if I'm in, if I'm in Europe, like having all this like correct change

00:20:16.180 in bills for all the people you're going to have to hand them to, you get to a hotel. It's like

00:20:19.500 you're facing this gauntlet of different people who need different amounts of money. And sometimes

00:20:24.360 you run out of it or you haven't changed it yet, or you need yen or euros or whatever it is.

00:20:28.440 And I'll just say, I'm sorry. Someone brings bags up to your room and say, I don't have

00:20:32.400 it now. I'll come down and give it to you. You're not lying. You just, you're going to

00:20:36.180 see these people again for the duration of your stay and you track them down and you give

00:20:40.160 them a, whatever, a couple of bucks or whatever it is. And those things happen. They're used

00:20:44.980 to it. But if you follow through, they'll, they'll be happy.

00:20:49.240 So let's raise another point. You know, man should have cash on them.

00:20:51.900 I'm a huge believer in cash. I mean, we've gotten to this point in it. When I wrote the

00:20:58.420 last book, the issue was just all the things with credit cards, but now we've got Venmo and

00:21:03.400 it's even more complicated in the last year. And you see these people at tables who they

00:21:08.940 want to pay their bill four ways and, but somebody ordered wine and somebody got the steak and

00:21:13.780 you'd think it's like doing your taxes. It's so confusing. I think sometimes I, I just

00:21:19.160 like to pay, it takes, if you're with one or two other people, maybe you take care of

00:21:24.620 it and they'll get you back later. And then maybe you leave a tip in cash, but cash, you're

00:21:29.340 always comfortable when you have cash and you're ready for whatever is going to happen. I really,

00:21:33.800 I really do believe that.

00:21:35.040 Yeah. It comes in handy. Whenever like we go downtown, like I always make sure I have

00:21:38.280 cash. Cause like there's parking you got to pay. There's people you got to tip. It comes in

00:21:42.240 hand. Right. And you don't want to be the one who can't, let's say you end up at a dive

00:21:46.120 bar. They don't take cards and the first round is on your buddy. The next round's on you.

00:21:49.580 And you don't want to be sort of worried about it or not ready to do whatever you need to

00:21:53.880 do. Or you get involved in a pool game with some, some other people and you want who you

00:21:58.520 got to be, if you have cash, you're ready for, for what the evening might bring.

00:22:02.600 Yeah. I've recently invested in a money club. That was my recent acquisition. It's been

00:22:06.640 great. I love it. All right. So let's talk about parties.

00:22:09.660 Yes. And what, so we're not talking about just like a hangout party, right? But I mean,

00:22:14.820 maybe some of this stuff can apply, but we're talking like someone sends you an invite.

00:22:18.580 What's the etiquette there on arriving? Should you bring a gift? How RSVP, like people don't RSVP

00:22:24.660 anymore, but I think I would say, you would say, argue that no, you should RSVP.

00:22:28.940 Well, I think you take a hint from the formality of the invitation. If the invitation is sent in

00:22:35.280 the mail and it's for a wedding or something, then they probably have a card or some sort of RSVP.

00:22:39.660 If the invitation is emailed, then I'd email back and just say, I'm looking forward to it. I can't

00:22:45.740 wait. And then you, typically what happens is you say, what can I bring? And they'll say, oh,

00:22:50.000 don't bring anything or bring wine. And if someone says, don't bring anything, you still bring

00:22:54.260 something. Never show up empty handed. Even if it's a hangout, if you're going over to watch the

00:23:00.280 NFC championship to watch the Minnesota Vikings get humiliated, that would be my team. You still

00:23:05.880 bring a six pack or whatever it is. And if you're going to a party, bring a bottle of wine. If they

00:23:11.000 say, if it's like a sit down party and your host is really particular about wine and you don't want

00:23:15.680 to get in the middle of their plan, bring them a bottle of champagne that's in a box. It's a gift

00:23:21.900 to them. It's something they can have later. It's not for to be had at the party. I think you always

00:23:26.780 want to bring something. It doesn't have to be liquor. You can bring some flowers. You can bring,

00:23:31.020 if you're going into the country and you pass a farm stand, get whatever nice looking fruit there

00:23:37.080 is, something seasonal and colorful, something that says you're in the mood. You can even bring

00:23:41.580 something really like tonic water or something useful that they might've not thought of. I even

00:23:47.200 sometimes text people when I'm about to arrive. It's a little different in New York, maybe than other

00:23:51.240 places. I say, I'm at the corner of your street. Do you need anything? Are you running low on

00:23:56.600 anything already? Then I get them whatever tonic water or juice or whatever they need.

00:24:02.760 How should you arrive? Fashion relate or should you arrive early or on time?

00:24:06.960 I think from the parties, when I have people over, I always want them to arrive earlier than they do.

00:24:13.600 I don't think you want to be right on the button, but usually you sense what sort of event it is. If

00:24:20.280 the people are sitting down to dinner, you want to be there when you're asked.

00:24:24.660 If it's a standing affair where there are going to be a lot of different people

00:24:29.220 arriving staggered, I think you want to come at a reasonable time, partly because it's the best time

00:24:35.240 to talk to the host. If you get there after it's in full swing, the host is going to have a lot on

00:24:40.440 his mind or a lot on her mind. You're not going to be able to have a little quality time together.

00:24:46.680 If you really want to get in the spirit, bring a bottle of whiskey. If you want to get even more

00:24:51.620 in the spirit, I think there's nothing more fun than a large format bottle of wine. They're not

00:24:56.620 always as expensive as you think. It really communicates fun and festiveness, festivity,

00:25:03.160 and it will be appreciated, believe me.

00:25:06.460 I imagine don't put lampshades on your head if you go to a party.

00:25:09.840 Yeah, no lampshades. When it comes to leaving, I've definitely been the last to leave. If you're

00:25:17.600 not helping clean up, I think you want to get out of there at a reasonable time and not hijack the

00:25:22.800 sound system and start putting on depressing Smith songs or something.

00:25:27.300 Right, Depeche Mode. And follow-up after the party, do you advocate for that?

00:25:33.540 Absolutely. The next morning, I don't know why. I always feel depressed the morning after a party

00:25:39.680 because I'm usually hungover. I've got a ton of dishes to do. I'm mostly aware of the people who

00:25:46.360 didn't show up, which is just a weird thing that happens. Not mostly. You just are aware of anything

00:25:50.400 that went wrong or people you missed. I always text someone. And then if it's a more involved

00:25:55.300 situation, break out the stationery or postcard or something, write them a note in addition to the

00:26:01.660 text or email, depending on the way you usually communicate and send them something. Even send

00:26:06.760 them a bottle of something or take them out or offer to take them out again. I mean, it's nice

00:26:12.660 to make offers to people to make overtures and to even offer to take someone out and let them know

00:26:17.860 that you're taking them out ahead of time. Not just that you pick up the bill at the end, just say,

00:26:21.760 thanks so much for the other night. Can I take you for a glass of wine or a beer or whatever it is?

00:26:26.660 All right. Let's talk about another awkward part of social life, which is greeting people.

00:26:33.380 I don't know. For some reason, it's gotten awkward in the past, I'd say, 10 years. I think we're out

00:26:37.940 of practice. Sure. Because there's those moments where you meet someone new. There's that. But then

00:26:43.240 also the really awkward one is when you see someone you kind of know at the grocery store, but then

00:26:49.280 should I say hello? What do I say? Oh, my goodness.

00:26:52.600 And then you say hello and you're like, oh, goodbye. And then you see them again in the

00:26:56.660 grocery store. Right. In the checkout line. Yeah.

00:26:59.240 Yeah. I mean, these things make me laugh because they're so human and they're so recognizable. I

00:27:04.700 mean, one reason that I wanted to do the book is to see what we're all struggling with or grappling

00:27:11.440 with. And I think these things are really human. I mean, I think greetings are really important.

00:27:16.240 If you meet someone in particular, introductions, then you want to, I mean, a firm handshake. I mean,

00:27:21.320 you don't want to shatter anyone's bones, but a firm handshake, eye contact, smile, say their

00:27:25.760 name back to them, partly to help you remember it. But it just, I don't understand how anyone

00:27:31.540 cannot greet someone well. It's sort of setting the stage for the future of your relationship,

00:27:36.840 whether that's professional or romantic or personal. It really, really says a lot about

00:27:41.760 you. I mean, a disproportionate amount about you. As far as when you run into people, I often

00:27:46.000 find myself saying, particularly if I'm not sure about their name or think they may not

00:27:51.200 remember me, if it was someone I met briefly and I see him at a cocktail party or an art

00:27:55.680 opening and I want to reconnect, I say, you know, nice to see you. I'm David. We met wherever

00:28:00.260 it was. And they'll either say, oh, right. Or of course I remember you. How could you do?

00:28:04.760 Well, whatever it is, you're setting the stage for them to reintroduce themselves in case you

00:28:10.760 can't remember their name. And also it's just a nice way to engage. As far as double kissing and

00:28:17.160 triple kissing and all that, I mean, you're never going to solve that. I was just, I was just in 0.91

00:28:20.780 Italy and I was leaning the wrong way. And who knows, some people are hugging and some people

00:28:25.140 are, you just, you try to do the right thing and follow someone else's lead if they lean in.

00:28:31.520 We're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. When it comes to our wardrobe,

00:28:35.280 your underwear is probably the last thing you think of, but an uncomfortable pair of underwear can just

00:28:39.020 ruin your day. Lots of adjusting, not fun. That's where Saks underwear comes in. Saks is the only

00:28:43.800 men's underwear that's actually designed with our anatomy in mind. When Saks first got started,

00:28:47.680 they wondered why can't men's underwear be better? Their answer was the ballpark pouch.

00:28:51.280 Does exactly what you think it does. Keeps everything separate down there. Everything stays

00:28:54.840 split. You can move around comfortably and there's no friction comes in handy during these hot,

00:28:59.520 humid summers we're having right now. Also Saks uses breathable fabrics, super soft,

00:29:04.080 moisture wicking and repel BO. I've got the kinetic boxer brief, super comfortable,

00:29:08.040 does exactly what it says. The ballpark batch does. Great boxer for working out or when you're

00:29:12.440 on a long, hot hike. Saks underwear is offering listeners a great limited time deal. Shop from

00:29:17.080 anywhere on their site and get $5 off plus free shipping on your first purchase when you use promo

00:29:21.460 code AOM at checkout. That's AOM for art of manliness. So order a few pairs of Saks now with 0.89

00:29:26.140 this great offer at Saks underwear. That's S-A-X-X underwear.com. Saks with two X's. Promo code AOM at

00:29:32.780 checkout for $5 off plus free shipping. Again, one more time, Saks underwear.com. Promo code AOM.

00:29:38.640 Also buy Life Proof Backpacks. Whatever the action, wherever the destination, no matter the

00:29:43.700 weather, Life Proof Backpacks keep you optimized, organized, prepared, and protected. Check them

00:29:48.660 out at LifeProof.com slash manliness. Receive 15% off your pack. Life Proof Backpacks are made with

00:29:54.060 water-repellent Cordura fabric to shed rain during those summer afternoon showers. Special tech pockets

00:29:58.700 are sealed against the elements and lined with soft fabric so phones and other small devices stay safe

00:30:03.080 inside. Select backpacks also have an ingenious side access laptop pocket, which comes in handy

00:30:07.600 when you're going through airport security. And speaking of security, most Life Proof Backpacks

00:30:11.180 are equipped with a super secret stash pocket when you need to hide away a passport or some cash,

00:30:15.240 and they're all outfitted with front tie-downs to hold your oversized stuff outside. With four sizes,

00:30:20.220 there's a Life Proof Backpack for any outing. Grab the Keto 18 liter for day trips. Up your carrying

00:30:24.760 capacity with the Squamish 20 liter. Go with the Goa 22 liter for tons of pockets or max out on

00:30:29.600 space with the Squamish XL 32 liter. Get your Life Proof Backpack now at a 15% discount by going

00:30:35.360 to LifeProof.com slash manliness. Again, LifeProof.com slash manliness for a 15% discount. Life Proof

00:30:42.040 Backpacks carry on. And now back to the show. Right. You got to go for it. I like how you made,

00:30:47.540 you mentioned, I think we should make, bring back the Cary Grant. How do you do when you meet somebody?

00:30:52.400 It's so, it's so classy and so simple and it's done. Right. I love it.

00:30:56.840 My grandfather said that and that always struck me. And then I see Cary Grant, how do you do? And

00:31:02.960 I just think, how do you do is a very nice, especially if you say it to someone who says

00:31:07.160 it back to you, then you feel like you've, you're complicit in some sort of traditional

00:31:12.240 way of greeting. And I think that, that, that, that's nice. How do you do? And also going back to

00:31:17.480 that idea when you, when you see people in public that, you know, and you're like, oh,

00:31:21.620 should I say hello? Or do I pretend like I've not seen them? Like, I think one thing that's helped

00:31:26.000 me is like, okay, they're probably thinking the same thing as I am. I'll just be the guy that just,

00:31:32.200 just goes forward and says, Hey, what's going on? How are you? And just be, yeah, just take charge,

00:31:37.040 be the host.

00:31:37.880 I think that's probably true in almost every one of these things we've discussed that the other

00:31:42.160 person is thinking the same thing as you. And so you just want to make, not make the first move,

00:31:47.620 but be open about it and, and, and gracious. I think it's nice. I mean, I definitely, there are

00:31:52.840 times when you run into someone on the street and, you know, you're in a rush, they're in a rush,

00:31:56.940 you know them just well enough and they'll say hello. You say hello and you just kind of barely

00:32:00.920 break stride and you kind of somehow both understand that you're not going to stop and talk. And that's

00:32:06.940 sort of sophisticated too, that, that you under, that they recognize the situation and that maybe it's

00:32:11.960 not the time you're late for the subway or something. But yeah, I think it's nice to be

00:32:15.760 a person who's in the event of a tie engages.

00:32:19.900 So we talked about the way you dress can be a form of etiquette and says a lot about you.

00:32:25.100 You also said that way you, you, way you present your domicile can also be a way to,

00:32:32.020 as a form of etiquette. How so?

00:32:34.460 Well, I don't know if it's etiquette so much as you will definitely be not judged,

00:32:39.840 but assessed by the way your home is, looks and how you live. And you're correct to be assessed

00:32:46.120 that way. I mean, if, in, in the case of, if you bring a, you know, if it's a woman, I mean,

00:32:50.960 of course she's going to notice what type of sheets you have in towels and the art you have

00:32:55.020 on your wall, or if you have the dreaded black leather couch. I mean, I think some of these things

00:32:59.860 are also about growing up, you know, when you lived with three other guys in a quad in college

00:33:04.740 and you had the reservoir dogs poster or whatever it was at that time, that's one thing.

00:33:10.220 And now you've kind of grown up out of that and you have maybe a collection of books or you've

00:33:16.660 bought a rug or you, you know, found some painting at a thrift store or whatever it is. And I think

00:33:21.900 it's nice to, to live in a way, not just for yourself, but for the people who come back. I mean,

00:33:27.780 there's nothing, I don't know if everyone's experiences where if you come back with someone

00:33:31.500 unexpectedly late at night and you're kind of running ahead of a woman trying to kind of

00:33:35.280 clean up your apartment briefly and wondering if you've left it in a state of disrepute, you know,

00:33:41.260 that's better to have it a little bit, uh, tidier. And I think it also says something about how you,

00:33:47.100 that you take yourself seriously in a way and that you consider yourself an adult.

00:33:50.840 Yeah. This is kind of an interesting tangent about decorations. Cause like a lot of men don't think

00:33:54.720 about it too much, but you wrote about art for a lot. So you're into art. I'm like one of those guys,

00:33:58.940 like, I want something I'm interested in, but it's like, man, it's going to cost a lot of money.

00:34:02.400 But that's necessarily the case. Can you decorate your house with some great looking stuff without,

00:34:06.100 you know, breaking the bank?

00:34:07.400 Absolutely. I think that's the best way to start. In fact, for a long time, even when I wrote about

00:34:12.580 art, I would mostly acquire things just when I traveled that weren't even technically art.

00:34:18.400 There could be maps or old Argentinian soccer programs that had really cool graphics

00:34:24.060 or all sorts of things, photographs that weren't necessarily fine art, but that I liked. I mean,

00:34:30.260 I would get them framed and put them up and just like your wardrobe or anything else,

00:34:34.020 it evolves over time. I think sometimes people are over, they think too much about a very,

00:34:41.000 the first thing they do. And so it intimidates them. I don't, I don't know anything about art.

00:34:45.000 I can't do it, but what's on your wall is, doesn't have to be art, but it can certainly be

00:34:49.960 meaningful to you and it can say something about you. And then you learn more about it,

00:34:53.540 or you learn more about your own taste and you find something that does make sense.

00:34:57.240 And I think that that's really a nice thing. And I think if you want to get more strategic about it

00:35:02.580 and you've got a little bit of money to spend, a lot of museums or art galleries will have kind

00:35:08.920 of fundraisers and sometimes they have little silent auctions before them where you can bid on

00:35:14.520 an edition, you know, instead of getting a painting or a unique work, you're getting a print

00:35:18.160 or something that's part of a run of, let's say 30 things, which usually costs much less.

00:35:22.980 And that's a great opportunity to spend a few hundred dollars and maybe you get one every

00:35:28.080 year. So at the Minnesota Institute of Art, we have this called the print and drawing fair

00:35:32.100 and something like that exists in many cities. And that, you know, it's a step to do that for

00:35:37.860 the first time, you know?

00:35:39.180 And part of that is a little bit of the theme of this conversation is growing up and taking

00:35:44.060 initiative. And, and I think it's a good thing. Go with your girlfriend or go with a friend

00:35:48.120 who cares about that sort of thing. And, and you, you'd be surprised. You, you'll know what

00:35:52.280 you like. Don't be afraid of the things you respond to. And then you build on that. I think

00:35:57.600 so often we keep ourselves from doing something because we don't think we, oh, I don't know

00:36:02.080 a lot about wine or I don't know enough about the opera or the theater to have an opinion.

00:36:05.900 And, and you know, you get to have an opinion about jazz or classical music is to, you know,

00:36:11.800 expose yourself to it and, and immerse yourself in it. And not everything's going to be for

00:36:16.580 you, but some things really will be. So many people discover passionate things in their lives

00:36:21.920 as they, as they're 30 or even older than that, whether it's activities like fly fishing or

00:36:27.780 something they may never have thought they cared about, like the opera. And I think you,

00:36:32.100 you want to be open-minded to a lot more things than you think and let yourself change and evolve

00:36:37.580 and grow. Yeah. One of the things that intimidates me about buying art is that, okay,

00:36:41.840 I'm going to buy this thing and it's going to have to be up in my house forever. And so like,

00:36:47.300 I never buy anything. It's like, I got to find that perfect thing. But like, you know,

00:36:50.480 the way you described it, you could just take out, rip out a page of a book that you think looks

00:36:54.120 cool and frame it, put it up and then you can replace it, you know, a couple of years if you want,

00:36:58.480 or even a few months later. Well, if you've ever seen how, or my approach to this is like,

00:37:04.220 I have a ton of rugs on my floor and a ton of art on my wall. And the more you have,

00:37:07.760 then the less importance each one has. So if you have one rug, then that better be a nice rug.

00:37:12.820 But if you have like a dozen, then that's just sort of reads as like all the same. And if you have

00:37:18.040 one piece of artwork on your wall, people are going to look at it. If you have a little grid of a few

00:37:22.500 things, then it, it kind of lessens the blow, you know? And I think that, I don't know if that

00:37:27.760 helps everybody, but that's a good way to think about it. And then, and then you get a little

00:37:31.600 less precious about it, you know? Cause of course the first time you do something, you think it's

00:37:35.000 this immense decision. It's like, if you just have one piece of furniture, right? And then you have

00:37:38.820 a little bit and it's not so, it's not, it's not quite as striking. Yeah. It takes the pressure

00:37:44.060 off for sure. I like that idea. Right. Exactly. All right. So let's get into etiquette and technology

00:37:49.540 because it's something our parents don't have to deal with, our grandparents. And I think a lot

00:37:54.200 of the etiquette around technology is communication. Cause again, communication, like manners is all

00:37:59.340 about human relations. And now we, we relate with other people through our technology. So I mean,

00:38:05.900 what's your take? Like with, when you have a computer in your phone, all in your pocket all the

00:38:09.640 time, what's the, the gentlemanly or the gentlemanly thing to do with that? Yeah. I mean, this is it.

00:38:17.300 This is the world we live in. I think one, one thing I try to keep in mind is technology has

00:38:23.720 changed our lives in many, many wonderful ways. I mean, I love texting. I love Instagram. I love a

00:38:29.280 lot of this. I love having a camera in my pocket. I love all music and podcasts and all those things

00:38:34.320 that they, they provide us. But I think the danger is that we let them dictate what we're doing when

00:38:41.080 we're in public. And I think that means that we've all seen a table of four people or two people on a

00:38:47.120 date and they're both looking at their phones. I mean, what's going on here? I mean, the best

00:38:51.460 things in your life are going to happen face to face with someone. And if you, especially as

00:38:55.500 everyone's busy, it's harder to see your friends have kids or you're traveling. And when you finally

00:38:59.000 get to be with your friend, keep the phones away. And as much as you can, I want to hear what my

00:39:05.940 friend's been up to, you know, what they're excited about. I don't want to, and I don't even just want

00:39:10.520 to see them showing me videos or something on their phone. I'd rather, I'd rather engage with them.

00:39:15.440 And that's going to lead to even more interesting things. So I try to keep the phone away. If you

00:39:20.940 really have to use it, take it outside, just take it away from where people are trying to have a good

00:39:26.640 time. Nothing is more off-putting than somebody jabbering on their phone in a cafe or a bar. I

00:39:33.500 mean, what, what's going on here? It's the part of manners is thinking about other people other than

00:39:39.300 yourself. Of course, it's one of the first things we learn. And I, unfortunately the, the phone is

00:39:45.040 really inverted that equation. So people think that wherever they are is their office. They can

00:39:51.460 just, you know, they're FaceTiming in restaurants at just bonkers loud level. I just keep, keep it

00:39:57.980 away when you can, or if you really have to use it, take it away from other people.

00:40:02.040 Does a man use emojis when he texts?

00:40:04.120 You know, it's funny. I, for many years, I wish there were italics that would really have helped

00:40:10.880 me say, uh, partly because they're so expressive and it's an, a discreet way of being expressive,

00:40:16.160 I think. And when I realized that people were misunderstanding my texts, that they didn't

00:40:22.480 see the, what I thought was a very bone dry humor, then I, I might've tossed in an emoji,

00:40:28.380 but I generally think it's better to be the one, the second person in a text exchange to use an

00:40:33.840 emoji, not the first. I'm always surprised when, when, when, uh, you know, serious guy I know will

00:40:39.720 use LOL or something. I'll just laugh. I think it's so funny. And I, it's sort of sweet because it

00:40:44.160 means they're, they're, they don't care so much in a way. I personally don't use that, those types of

00:40:49.100 formations, but I'll toss in an emoji. If I know it's an emoji safe environment.

00:40:53.600 Right. Right. Be funny. I wish I didn't have to. Right. Be funny if Cormac McCarthy used LOL.

00:40:59.260 Yeah, exactly. Okay. Well, it's okay. Emojis. Okay. Sometimes like, are there emojis that like

00:41:04.920 you think, okay, those are awful. No one should ever, no man, no man, dignified man would ever

00:41:09.580 use a certain emoji. Well, absolutely. I mean, I think we know what they are. I mean, if they're

00:41:13.880 vile or vulgar or provocative or something that a 13 year old would use, I think it's generally nice to,

00:41:20.140 if you have to just some sort of laugh your face or whatever it is. I mean, it's, it sounds absurd

00:41:24.920 to say it, but you know, when it's the right time to use it, you know, cause it's just sort of saying

00:41:28.820 that you're, you're sharing some sort of joke with someone you like, but I don't think you want to make

00:41:34.180 a habit out of it. And you probably don't want to be the first one to toss it out there, especially if

00:41:38.260 it's with someone you're, you're hoping to get to know better. Yeah. The text is tricky and you wrote

00:41:43.540 about this too. And I I've noticed not only with my text and my email, but like I'm using exclamation points

00:41:48.200 all the time and like for no reason, but it's just to show that like, I'm not, I'm not mad. I mean,

00:41:54.440 basically the exclamation point is like, I am, I'm, Hey, I'm not mad. This is.

00:41:58.400 That's, that's perfectly said, Brett. That's so funny. I didn't use an exclamation point, not just in text,

00:42:03.320 but in any writing I did for all the times I, in anything, in magazines and newspapers, much less texts or emails.

00:42:11.960 And then finally a few years ago I did start to use them. And now if I get a text from my mom that

00:42:17.640 just says, okay, let's meet for dinner. And it just says, okay, all in lowercase letters. I'm like,

00:42:22.680 mom, what's going on? Why are you so sad or angry? Let's put a exclamation point on the end of that

00:42:28.040 to show some enthusiasm. I think it's, yeah, I think now we're kind of conditioned. I think it's

00:42:32.620 going to be really effective and I don't just one will do. And it shows that you're kind of exactly

00:42:39.040 like you said, not angry. I that's, that's perfectly put. Yeah. It's not, it's not just

00:42:43.240 sure it's sure. Exactly. Right. You can't wait to be there. I'll be there on time early. In fact.

00:42:49.980 Right. It's so funny to have that's, that's changing. It's, yeah, it's kind of, I find it

00:42:53.340 kind of annoying, but I feel like I had to do that. So I don't, right. People don't know I'm angry at

00:42:57.040 them. Social media, like Instagram, like there's like, you know, that's like, how's it old Instagram

00:43:02.200 now? 10 years, maybe not, not even that five. I don't know. But like, there's like a whole

00:43:08.140 etiquette around that now, right? Like, do you, like, when do you like something? Like

00:43:13.440 what, I mean, so what's your take on that on, on using Instagram?

00:43:17.320 I think it's really, really, I think it's evolving and that makes it complicated. The

00:43:21.740 way we share information is so different than it was even a few years ago. So someone puts

00:43:26.740 something that seems really important on Instagram and you're sharing this with the whole world.

00:43:31.740 I'll often write them back by email to say, you know, congratulations if you're getting

00:43:36.380 married, even though you, you know, you shared it on a picture of a ring on Instagram to thousands

00:43:42.160 of people. I'd rather keep my communication private, but you're right. You feel this pressure

00:43:47.880 to show enthusiasm. And I don't know the answer. I really don't. I think everyone's going to have

00:43:53.560 their own approach when sometimes we think people are showing off their lives. And then usually that's

00:43:59.040 just because they do something a little bit more than the way we do it or the way we're comfortable

00:44:02.820 doing it. And I'm sure someone thinks that I do something a certain way. And we, we don't quite

00:44:08.920 know. I think that we're how much to be, to make our lives public and the way we present ourselves.

00:44:16.000 I mean, you're definitely presenting yourself that there's no way around that. It's like dressing in

00:44:20.120 that regard. You can say, oh, well, I just do my Instagram the way I do it. But that's like saying,

00:44:25.180 I just wear what I wear. It doesn't mean anything, but of course it means something. Not making a

00:44:28.940 choice is still a choice. So I think we're going to figure that out. I mean, I, I don't personally

00:44:34.700 post many pictures of myself. I have a, you know, following of people who I don't know. And so it's

00:44:40.640 more of a, I travel a lot and write about that and write about tailoring and those sorts of things.

00:44:46.300 So I try to share things based on my interests and that's makes sense for me and works for me.

00:44:51.920 It's probably not what makes sense for other people. And, you know, I follow some friends who have

00:44:56.620 feeds of their children that I'm very close to, but then other people I'm not following them.

00:45:02.100 So it's strange the way we do that. And I think we're still, it's still evolving. It's evolved

00:45:06.760 so much in 10 years. I mean, when you look back at what Instagram was, when we started,

00:45:11.320 I just signed up because I wanted to make what looked like an old Polaroid. Remember they

00:45:15.700 with like a white border and, oh my goodness, and sepia toned or something. And now,

00:45:21.400 you know, it's evolving every few months. Yeah. I think we'll have etiquette books about

00:45:27.380 Instagram here in a couple of years. Right. But they'd be outdated so quickly. I mean,

00:45:31.600 one thing to me that's nice is that it allows me to interact with people. People write me questions

00:45:38.680 all the time. People I've never met about places I've been, about, you know, suits and tailoring

00:45:43.840 advice that they want. And that's a nice thing to have. I think this sort of seamlessness,

00:45:48.400 I think you can go overboard with that. But I usually make an effort to read and respond to

00:45:53.740 all the messages I get from people who have questions about if they see I'm in a certain

00:45:57.840 city and they're going to go there, they say, oh, where should I go? Or if they want some sort of

00:46:03.040 advice about shoes or whatever it is. And I do, and Instagram messages, which literally have only

00:46:09.060 been around not that long, has really changed the way we can communicate with people that we don't

00:46:15.360 know as well. And that, that could be a nice thing. Yeah. One thing I've noticed people do,

00:46:20.420 I've noticed in the recent years that people are getting more strategic about social media in

00:46:24.040 general. I think before it was all of just, it was a broadcast model, like let the whole world,

00:46:29.140 you know, see what I'm doing. But now you're seeing people like they have private accounts and

00:46:33.660 they only let certain people see certain images. If it's like close family, do that. And then

00:46:38.820 they'll have maybe if they have a more forward facing presence online.

00:46:42.580 Right. That's, that's probably for the best. Of course, then you get these people with so many

00:46:46.480 accounts and you're like, look, can you just tell me which one to follow? You know, I think

00:46:50.760 we're overwhelmed with feeds. I know everybody, a lot of people criticize this. They want the feed

00:46:56.560 that comes in order, the chronological feed, but I actually like how they stack it now. So the 12 or

00:47:02.460 15 people that I want to see the most, they're usually right at the top of my feed. But I mean,

00:47:06.800 it's, it's amazing how much this is part of our lives now. I mean, my dad, who has the same name

00:47:12.760 as me, he would, he never wanted to get on Instagram and he had a book coming out, a book

00:47:17.440 that some people think I wrote, which I didn't call Paris and Winner. And now he's, he, he's on

00:47:22.960 Instagram all the time and he loves it. He's interacting with my friends. They're commenting

00:47:26.340 to me about what they've seen that he's up to. It's, it's a wild new world.

00:47:30.120 So one thing that can simplify this is going back in technological time and bringing back

00:47:38.040 the handwritten note, which you write about in the book as well.

00:47:41.400 I believe that we respond to those things in a very strong way, kind of like beautiful ceramics.

00:47:47.180 It's just a physical, something we, we are almost hardwired to respond to it. When someone sends me

00:47:54.040 a note, I love it. I think that I speak for a lot of people when I say that I like getting

00:47:59.200 mail, like handwritten mail, real mail. And my dad is actually wonderful about that sort

00:48:05.040 of thing. I have envelopes that he's sent me from probably the last 30 years that are some

00:48:10.240 of my favorite things that I have. And I think there's, I think it's nice when, also when you

00:48:16.320 get something from somebody and you realize that they have personalized stationery, that feels like

00:48:19.960 such a decision they made in their lives that I approve of. And the fact that it's a little bit

00:48:26.240 expensive and not really that practical makes it even better. I like the fact that it isn't

00:48:31.220 the easiest way to do something. And so that's why in the book, we talked to Ted Harrington from

00:48:37.540 Terrapin Stationers who makes engraved stationery. And he's, he's very funny and irreverent about that,

00:48:45.420 but his family has been making that sort of thing for generations. And it's, it's really nice to have,

00:48:49.700 to have that, to have some stationery. I believe in it. A thank you card. Once you have it,

00:48:54.360 you find you use it more than you would have thought. And when, and if you, and you're speaking

00:48:58.780 of being strategic and if you're, you know, invited to something that, you know, some sort of work

00:49:03.720 event or something where you're trying to make an impression on someone to write back to them and

00:49:07.000 thanking you for being included to whatever it was, a press event or something like that. I think

00:49:12.100 people recognize it.

00:49:14.040 And what I love about handwritten letters or snail mail is that it eliminates a lot of the weird,

00:49:19.380 like unspoken, like rules of like online technology, where when you get something online,

00:49:25.440 there's an expectation. You got to get back to me like today or within a few hours. Like when I get

00:49:29.720 a letter from somebody or I send a letter to somebody, like, I know it's going to take, you know,

00:49:34.680 a day or two to get there. They're going to get it and they might, and I'm okay, I'm okay. If they

00:49:38.380 don't get back to me for like a week or two, or even they don't even get back to me. Like I'm okay

00:49:42.760 with that. It just eliminates that, that weird social pressure we have with online communication.

00:49:47.040 I love that. I love that sentiment, that kind of open-endedness of it,

00:49:51.420 that it's, it doesn't require that, you know, immediate response. I think anything that says

00:49:56.100 read, like a read notification is just diabolical. I don't want people to know exactly when I've read

00:50:01.780 something. And to be honest, I don't want to know when they've read it because then you have some sort

00:50:06.120 of, just like you said, expectation, but, but a letter kind of exists in its own space and time,

00:50:12.420 right? When, once you've sent it out, you don't know when it arrives. You don't know when

00:50:16.700 someone read it and it's nice to just have it out in the world. So I, I think it's a wonderful

00:50:22.100 thing. And I feel like we do, it is the antidote to that kind of sped up, hyper-responsive groove we

00:50:29.860 get into in our daily lives with, that we don't even realize we get into like, yes, text response

00:50:35.800 five minutes from now. I think sometimes that's really useful if you're about to meet somebody

00:50:39.900 or whatever it is, but it also has us kind of dialed into our phones way, way too much.

00:50:45.800 Way too much. All right. Are there any rules you came across in your conversations, your interviews

00:50:50.800 that they don't really fit it like a nice category, like it's etiquette for social media or etiquette for

00:50:56.240 parties, but that the rules that sort of rules for life that you really liked?

00:51:00.900 Well, I have some real issues about men's toes and, and people showing their feet in public. I don't 0.99

00:51:08.760 understand men who are just in flip-flops and serious, in serious places. So when, when one

00:51:15.960 person said that you shouldn't wear flip-flops where you can't swim, I really liked that as a, I think

00:51:22.760 that was a lesson that their father had taught, taught him. And I think I, but the reason I say that is

00:51:28.320 that it, it indicates something more, you know, people propping their feet up and, you know,

00:51:33.580 putting them on seats opposite themselves. And when they're on the train or just in other places,

00:51:38.820 I'm, I'm very aware of feet for some reason. I think one thing about this book was about being

00:51:43.680 more tolerant in a lot of ways, but I'm still very sensitive to, to feet for whatever reason,

00:51:50.000 people talked about spitting. So I, I should say, I asked a handful of people, young men,

00:51:56.400 middle-aged men, older men about what they, questions and opinions they had about manners

00:52:01.480 today, things that bothered them, questions they had, things they continue to do. You know,

00:52:06.740 a lot of people asked about what, you know, etiquette with women that, when is it outdated 0.62

00:52:12.540 or when should you be opening doors or pulling out chairs? And that's a really tricky thing.

00:52:17.520 And I know the world has changed in a lot of ways, but sometimes it is nice to still do those

00:52:22.440 things. And I don't feel it shows that you're behind the times. I think we're all kind

00:52:26.000 of struggling to balance the best of traditional manners that are worth bringing forward and when

00:52:31.820 things need to evolve and to be a little bit less formal. So I'm, I'm all for opening doors and,

00:52:39.580 and definitely offering the best seat in the house to whomever you're with, even if it's a man.

00:52:45.280 Yeah. Um, so David has been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about the book?

00:52:50.180 Well, the best way still is the old fashioned amazon.com. I mean, that's a world we live in

00:52:55.580 a handful of places where I've done book events have signed copies of the book, like Sid Mashburn

00:53:00.460 and Stag and great store in Austin. And there are going to be some at J press here in New York and

00:53:06.840 at three lives bookstore in New York, they'll have signed copies of the book, but the best way to get

00:53:11.240 it, amazon.com. You can see the books, the images from it. And it's just a part of our lives,

00:53:16.860 like everything else in the changing world. Yeah. Amazon. Yeah. I got a love hate relationship

00:53:21.200 with Amazon, but that's another conversation. David Coggins. Thank you so much for your time.

00:53:25.680 It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Really appreciate it, Brent. My guest today was David Coggins. He's

00:53:29.140 the author of the book men and manners is available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere. Check out

00:53:33.420 his Instagram feed at David R Coggins or on Twitter at David R Coggins as well. Also check out our show

00:53:38.880 notes at aom.is slash men and manners. We can find links to resources. We can delve deeper into this topic.

00:53:46.860 Well, that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast. For more manly tips and advice,

00:54:00.440 make sure to check out the art of manliness website at artofmanliness.com and enjoy the podcast. I

00:54:04.660 appreciate it. You give us a review on iTunes or Stitcher helps that a lot. As always,

00:54:07.840 thank you for your support. Until next time, this is Brett McKay telling you to stay manly.

00:54:16.860 I'll see you next time.

The Art of Manliness - July 12, 2018

#422： Men & Manners — Tipping, Emojis, and Much More

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript