The Art of Manliness - #490： Can You Learn to Be Lucky？

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast there's no doubt

00:00:19.180 that luck plays a role in how successful we are in life but the more we believe in luck the less

00:00:23.900 motivated we feel to proactively go after our goals so how do we navigate this paradox around

00:00:28.380 luck acknowledging the influence of chance but not letting it demoralize us i guess they argues that

00:00:33.120 the answer lies in seeing life more like playing a game of poker and pulling the handle of a slot

00:00:37.800 machine her name is carla star she's the author of can you learn to be lucky why some people seem to

00:00:42.640 win more often than others today on the show carla argues that no matter what hand you're dealt in

00:00:46.460 life there are still many things you have control over that you can influence to make your own luck

00:00:50.660 we talk about how the things that come down to chance like the timing of a job interview how

00:00:54.100 physically attractive you are whether you have more or less resilient genes can be influenced

00:00:58.220 or counteracted by our own proactive behaviors that more opportunities in life fall our way

00:01:03.140 out of the show's over check out our show notes at aom.is slash lucky

00:01:07.100 carla star welcome to the show thank you so much for having me so you wrote a book can you learn to be

00:01:24.620 more lucky curious what got you thinking about luck was there an event in your life where you're like i

00:01:30.340 need to look more into this yes it was 10 years ago i was living in buenos aires for a few years and

00:01:37.240 then i moved back to the states to portland oregon right around the height of the great recession

00:01:41.760 and it just seemed like there was so much randomness and chaos everywhere around me like you know who was

00:01:48.500 unemployed what was going on so i just wanted to study the one underlying thing that would help me

00:01:54.360 improve as many aspects of my life and help me kind of wrap my head around what was going on

00:01:58.880 so when you talk about luck how do you how are you defining luck in your book people say that something

00:02:06.060 is due to luck when we say that it's caused by something that's external unpredictable or outside of

00:02:11.460 our control so this might be the case maybe we lost the game because the ref made a bad call or we

00:02:17.580 didn't get a part because the director didn't like our shirt but the problem is that people usually make

00:02:22.500 this shift from i can do something about this to oh it's out of my hands way too early and this is

00:02:28.960 partly because our brains are fundamentally lazy right we're always looking for a shortcut and it's easier

00:02:33.880 to just change our goal and say oh that's good enough than it is to try harder but this is also

00:02:38.740 really to save our ego so if we think that we lost the game because of this bad call we can still tell

00:02:43.700 ourselves like no we're really better it was just that's a bad thing that happened so in other words

00:02:49.280 when people start blaming luck they're making this shift from you know i can do something this is an

00:02:54.340 internal cause to an external cause which means that they're giving up personal responsibility and

00:02:59.800 really making an excuse so overall while it does make sense to say that luck exists the more often we

00:03:06.280 blame it the less motivated we are to examine our contribution our part and how things happened

00:03:11.520 and overall that leads towards outcomes it takes more energy to see your part and change but there's

00:03:18.420 always something you can do so when you say can we learn to be lucky what does that mean so if

00:03:24.460 these things are outside of control do we have more control than we think we do absolutely i think

00:03:30.120 that i mean that's one of the huge things um one of the huge themes in the book is that people's

00:03:34.680 just their overall like life goals and the way that we manage to accomplish our things that we set out

00:03:41.160 to do um there's pretty much a direct correlation between how much control we think we have and

00:03:46.860 whether or not people actually accomplish their objectives and part of that is because the whole

00:03:51.740 idea of thinking we can control things like you know we become more likely to persist we become more

00:03:57.520 likely to you know look at our part in things and you know there's always something we can do even if

00:04:02.520 it's just trying again so i think the other part of it is that luck is essentially just when everything

00:04:07.400 goes right i think that people underlook this idea because you know for the most part things go pretty

00:04:13.540 well we don't always appreciate that so it's also just kind of being able to capitalize on like just the

00:04:20.120 randomness and be open to things so there are a lot of different ways to conceptualize it which is

00:04:25.980 one of the reasons that can be a little tricky but overall you know knowing that we can control

00:04:31.140 things or knowing that you know there's something we can do about it that's really adaptive because

00:04:35.580 the second that we think something is uncontrollable that actually makes it stressful and it actually

00:04:40.360 reduces our motivation to even work on something so the idea is it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy

00:04:45.460 if you think things are going to go your way and you take action to make things go your way

00:04:49.220 things that you otherwise would have attributed to luck if things didn't go your way you say well no i

00:04:54.480 can actually do this and i actually can influence that more than i than most people think yes 100

00:05:00.220 there's another theme in the book is this idea of positive illusions so people think like cognitive

00:05:05.880 biases are all bad you know they're all just these weird shortcuts that our brain takes but there's

00:05:10.840 actually one family of cognitive biases that's completely adaptive and that's called positive illusions

00:05:15.740 so that's things like optimism and confidence and these are all completely adaptive and lead to

00:05:21.440 better life outcomes to the extent that they promote goal-directed action so if you think

00:05:27.120 i can you know work really hard and make my dream come true then guess what you're going to work hard

00:05:32.200 and your dreams are more likely to come true and i think another thing we'll we'll delve deeper in

00:05:37.180 here when we talk about specific things that you can do to you know get more lucky or get luckier

00:05:41.820 is that there are things that people would otherwise attribute to luck or actually attributable to luck

00:05:46.740 right like timing or things like that but like you show ways that you can influence that

00:05:51.300 in your direction right right so like timing you know that's something that you know generally is

00:05:56.960 out of our control but i think once you kind of look at the other side of the coin and you look at

00:06:01.380 people's decision making process and you kind of understand like you know why it is that they're

00:06:06.020 more likely to you know to do something at a certain time i think that can just you know really help us

00:06:12.200 understand like the mechanisms and that can you know help attack it yeah i think what you're trying

00:06:16.640 to do is increase so like there's always a continuum of like skill and luck or randomness

00:06:21.040 what you're trying to do is increase that the the luck or the the you're trying to increase the skill

00:06:27.040 part of it right and reduce luck yes 100 like i have this spectrum that i use when i give talks

00:06:32.700 sometimes and you know people look at you know and think of luck they might just think of like oh it's

00:06:37.360 a slot machine right like that's kind of what life is like you just go up to it you press a little

00:06:40.820 button and like you know whatever happens happens and you know really a much better metaphor for life

00:06:46.200 or all these things like poker like you don't necessarily have control over the cards that you

00:06:50.800 were dealt however you know poker like there are skills that you can learn and become a better poker

00:06:56.080 player so regardless of the hand you're actually dealt we can learn how to play it better right so

00:07:01.120 this is what this book kind of gets at it it's it's recognizing that luck does play a role but

00:07:06.320 there are places or things we can do where we can influence things a bit more so let's get into

00:07:12.220 the specifics i thought it was really interesting let's talk about some of the specificness of that

00:07:15.680 so let's talk about well first this before we get specific like what do you think is the overarching

00:07:20.920 principle of all these ideas you highlight in the book where we can tilt luck more into our favor

00:07:25.820 i think negative unpredictable things or random things have a predictably self-defeating influence

00:07:33.560 on our behavior so pretty much the brain is lazy we are lazy we are you know always motivated to do

00:07:41.000 less whenever we can so if we think that it's not worth it to try a little harder we won't try a

00:07:46.800 little harder and then we prove ourselves right so overall i think you know motivate motivation motivation

00:07:52.240 to persist motivation to get better you know confidence like social skills like pretty much is entirely

00:07:59.760 contingent on motivation so let's talk about uh how timing can influence the outcomes of you know

00:08:07.420 whether we get a job whether we win a contest like take like a job we think well i got the job because

00:08:12.920 i had the resume i impressed the people in the interview i've got the skills but you highlight

00:08:17.880 research that sometimes that's not the case just sometimes you get the job because you showed up at a

00:08:22.880 certain time during the day when they were doing interviews 100 it could be the time of day you

00:08:28.340 it could be you know oh you happen to wear a green tie you know and the person who had this job that 0.98

00:08:34.120 you're interviewing for used to wear green ties all the time and he was kind of a jerk you know so

00:08:37.880 you subconsciously remind the interviewer of that person so there are all these like very small 0.75

00:08:43.140 things that can influence your chances of success in one way or another that have absolutely nothing

00:08:49.200 to do with your merit as an applicant well and i you've also highlighted a lot of research showing

00:08:54.120 that you know you talked about the westminster dog show as an example or even a tattoo contest and

00:08:59.600 what you found was what the researchers have found is that the people who last in the contest you know

00:09:04.540 to be judged they typically win like what's going on there why do those people typically win

00:09:09.520 so if you think about what happens when we look at say a series of things over the course of the night

00:09:14.800 if you're looking at like an olympic contest the first thing you see what you're really doing is

00:09:20.320 you're grading those against the ideals that are in your head you know you're kind of going to be

00:09:25.640 a little more critical of them and you're always going to leave a little room at the top because you

00:09:29.860 never really know what else is going to go there however what happens as you go along and as you see

00:09:34.860 more performances or more tattoos the context in which you are evaluating things shifts so what you're

00:09:42.740 doing as you go along further than night is you're not comparing them to the ideals in your head

00:09:46.840 but you're comparing them implicitly even though you don't realize this you're comparing them to

00:09:50.840 the other things you've already seen so by the time you get to the last you know tattoo or song or

00:09:56.500 whatever you're able to point out the unique qualities that that thing has that nothing else

00:10:02.280 you know you've seen before has and then you're also able to just say like wow this is the best you

00:10:07.580 know that was the best jump we've seen throughout the night whereas the first performance you saw you

00:10:13.340 were not able to say wow this is the only performance we will see where this person executed

00:10:18.060 that jump perfectly no yeah that makes a lot of sense and the other thing going to you know going

00:10:22.520 for you if you go last is like they remember you more because you're the last thing they saw

00:10:26.580 absolutely so they mistake the vividness of their memory as a sort of you know idea of like the

00:10:33.240 quality of how you know how good it was right so you think oh well if it was really good it would

00:10:38.000 be you know really memorable it would be really vivid when actually it's just timing and the

00:10:42.680 recency effect so in the the case of something like a job interview luck might determine when

00:10:47.260 you have the interview so the the timing component is out of your hands despite that what can you do

00:10:52.540 to help influence the outcome well one thing i think is um is really robust is to just try to remind

00:10:59.840 other people of the ways that you remind or the things that you have in common with other people

00:11:06.580 who have succeeded in that position beforehand you know so you kind of what you want to do is you

00:11:11.700 want to make it as easy as possible for other people to see you in that position regardless of

00:11:15.980 where you go gotcha so yeah and i so if you don't if you can't influence whether you're you know the

00:11:21.100 first or the last one to go if you're the first one you try to be as memorable as possible by doing

00:11:26.140 something like you just said or even just yeah being memorable right and i think also you know the

00:11:30.900 timing throughout the day can be kind of tricky because you might have your interview you know right at

00:11:36.340 the end of the day or at the beginning of the day however once it really depends on when that person

00:11:41.300 has decided and we're not always privy to that information you know they might decide you know

00:11:46.980 at the end of the day on tuesday so then you know it doesn't matter when you go on wednesday they've

00:11:51.480 already kind of made up their mind so yeah and in that case you know so i think this is useful to

00:11:55.420 know because you might have all the credentials you might have what it takes to do the job you don't get

00:11:59.960 it and it might not because it might just because you just you interviewed at the wrong time

00:12:04.040 and that's it and you shouldn't feel get too down on yourself absolutely and i hear this from people

00:12:08.560 all the time you know oh i really wanted to switch careers and you know get into this line of work

00:12:13.160 but i applied and they didn't take me you know but that is one data point and i can say you know after

00:12:17.780 researching all these things for 10 years like just fundamentally this book has made me so much more

00:12:23.440 resilient and just so much more optimistic because when you realize like how obscure or how random some of

00:12:30.600 these the things that influence people's decision making process can be you will realize like

00:12:34.480 no it's not always about you so let's talk about more into this this decision making process that

00:12:40.800 you know we think is luck but we can actually influence it a bit so when we go to a job interview

00:12:47.360 or we you know apply for a job we think the decision maker is being super rational they're looking

00:12:51.540 right at the our credentials and they're making this analytical choice because they say well we need xx for

00:12:58.320 the job and this person has xx so we're going to hire them but you make the case that no that's not

00:13:03.020 how we really make decisions humans often make decisions in their gut first and then after the fact

00:13:08.300 they come up with the the rational reasons well i remember talking to michael mozenbaum he wrote the

00:13:15.600 book about success and luck and talent and luck and he gave this example that going in place for it

00:13:20.620 in his in his real life example was he went to go in interview for this job there's a lot of

00:13:25.680 competition and he happened to see that the interviewer had like a washington redskins trash

00:13:32.620 can and he just said oh i love the washington redskins too and they had this talk about

00:13:37.500 washington redskins and like like nothing came up about his credentials but he still got the job and

00:13:42.300 it was just one of those cases like he lucked out this guy was also a washington redskins fan

00:13:46.960 and he got the job because of it oh yeah that happens all the time well so what do you do if

00:13:52.360 you're applying for a job and you you know this is happening that people are making decisions with

00:13:57.260 their gut first because they they might see you and they like okay like you said they remind you

00:14:01.140 remind that person of like their ex or their crazy uncle and immediately they're like no that's this

00:14:07.460 guy we're not hiring this guy but like what can you do knowing that that's happening to kind of tilt

00:14:12.880 luck more towards your favor so i think it's important to remember that it's fundamentally this

00:14:17.800 process of us gathering information and then sort of like weighing the costs and benefits of the pros

00:14:23.020 and cons so it's really important to remember that the first piece of information or the initial pieces

00:14:28.040 of information that people get about you are the most informative and they kind of end up skewing

00:14:32.840 how people filter the rest of the information they get about you and that is why it is so so much easier

00:14:38.320 to get a job through connections because then it's oh well you know dan recommended this person

00:14:43.580 therefore you know dan's a good guy therefore we're going to look at the rest of this person's

00:14:48.100 application or resume through that positive lens or oh this person came recommended to us through

00:14:53.740 this agency or through this you know common linkedin connection or oh we saw this person you know this

00:14:59.240 one project that they did that really stood out so they're going to look at everything else in a

00:15:03.400 really positive light all right so build that network up build that network yeah it's huge and also

00:15:08.360 just you know whatever you can do to not just be one in the pile right another thing that can

00:15:13.040 influence whether and it's sort of this sort of a continuation what we've just been talking about

00:15:17.560 is like so if someone just likes you they're more likely to you know pick you for a job accept your

00:15:23.320 pitch go on a date with you but what's interesting you highlight research that sometimes what causes

00:15:28.560 people to like us is that they just see us a lot and it's not that for me that first impression has a

00:15:33.860 big sway can can influence things for a long term but over time that person sees you over and over again

00:15:39.520 they start liking you and they're more willing to go with you if they have to make a decision that

00:15:43.780 involves you absolutely so it's the called the mere exposure effect so the whole idea is that

00:15:48.740 mere exposure or simple exposure can make us like somebody more over time because we get a chance to

00:15:54.900 constantly see that person and then it's just essentially a learning process we're learning to

00:15:59.900 associate this one person with nothing bad happening so an evolution is this idea that whatever is

00:16:06.700 familiar hasn't eaten you yet so the more you see somebody the more safe they appear the less risky

00:16:12.820 they appear and then also you just have more opportunities to collect information and find

00:16:17.860 you know good information about somebody but this is also really it's a good example of why it's so

00:16:24.520 important for why first impressions are so key because if the first impression that someone gets about you

00:16:31.560 or the first interaction that someone has with you is negative then what are they going to do well 0.98

00:16:36.840 they're just going to assume wow this person is a jerk and then they're going to filter you and the 0.91

00:16:41.960 rest of your actions through that lens so usually like seeing someone over and over it usually is 0.98

00:16:47.420 positive because you know we repeat actions or repeat interactions if they are positive and we're

00:16:53.580 pretty much for the most part like fundamentally motivated to maintain good relationships with the people we see

00:16:58.300 and does this like so this is a proximity effect does it have to be like you could be physical

00:17:02.380 physically close like in like the same like see this person physically like meat space we'll call it

00:17:07.380 for this effect to happen or can this happen online as well well it's definitely physically is just it's

00:17:14.640 safer because we get context you know things are interactive you know kind of are more motivated to have

00:17:21.680 like positive impressions in person whereas if somebody just sees you online you know i think social

00:17:28.220 media is it's especially really kind of dangerous for this because people are we're always just putting

00:17:34.240 up these you know very filtered kind of curated impressions of ourselves so there's this whole idea

00:17:40.020 of the ideal self whereas we'll like people and we're even willing to like people if we think

00:17:45.240 they're maybe a little better than us but if we feel that they're kind of like they've exceeded that

00:17:49.600 you know maybe if they're like showboating or something that's when jealousy can get involved and i think

00:17:55.140 that's one of the reasons why social media can be so tricky because we don't really see the whole

00:17:59.060 the nuance or the context you know we don't realize like oh this is just this you know this one awesome

00:18:04.760 moment in this person's month and we should be happy for them that they are in this awesome trip because

00:18:09.200 you know other awful things happen to them right so what can we do like knowing that okay if we if

00:18:16.580 the mere exposure effect plays a role in whether people like us or not like what can we do

00:18:21.200 say if you're looking for a job or i mean this could like also work in your romantic life as well

00:18:26.120 absolutely i mean i think this is so this is actually one of the interesting things that

00:18:30.300 i've you know also uncovered in the research is i think that people really overemphasize the impact

00:18:35.980 of luck or the impact of these one you know this one interaction or this one thing that led to this

00:18:42.280 host of other things and really like personality traits or character strengths that we can develop are

00:18:48.180 really predictive of overall life outcomes because it's not just that one thing it's oh this person

00:18:54.380 you know made a hundred contacts and it happened to be that one that ended up paying off you know or

00:19:00.260 oh this person is involved in that many social groups and they have this large of a social network

00:19:05.000 you know and that is how they're able to like you know finally meet the person who ended up you

00:19:09.860 know becoming their significant other all right so yeah the takeaway get out there mix it up

00:19:14.380 with people in real real life yeah and that was actually this one thing that this relationship

00:19:19.700 researcher told me he said that you know people you know they think about like online dating and it's

00:19:24.460 it's really just a numbers game and that can make people become you know a little jaded and when in

00:19:30.640 fact most successful long-term relationships happen between people who have already known each other for

00:19:35.100 a long time yeah we had him on the podcast he talked about his research that was really interesting

00:19:39.540 yeah yeah like most people who they end up with uh who they end up marrying or whatever like they

00:19:44.800 worked with them or they were a friend for years as opposed to they just found each other on tinder or

00:19:49.320 whatever yes by far absolutely you get you know it's the whole backfinding thing you just are able to

00:19:55.700 collect more information about the person and then you know it's just you get to know somebody before

00:20:00.880 you decide should you be in a relationship with them or not as opposed to just you know is their face cute

00:20:07.100 and that you know and physical appearance you know it is important to be attracted to somebody

00:20:11.160 but there's this huge personality effect on how attractive we find somebody so over time as you

00:20:16.280 get to know somebody you know personality is definitely what can change a 7 to a 10 or a 7 to a 3

00:20:22.260 no yeah you highlight he did some he talked about research where you know they they had students in

00:20:27.600 a classroom rate each other like physical and like attractiveness at the beginning of the semester

00:20:31.980 and you know the the the ratings were what you'd expect like you know the objectively attractive

00:20:37.580 people were nines and tens or whatever but at the end of the year the end of the semester they did

00:20:43.000 the the rating again and who was ranked you know the most physically it was like all over the place there

00:20:48.100 was like no because people got to know each other and some personalities clicked and they found that

00:20:53.080 personality more attractive and that influence you know they they brought that in as a factor

00:20:57.860 into the physical attractiveness absolutely so it's just kind of like you're you know is this

00:21:02.160 person a 10 or not well that depends on how much information you have about them so when you first meet

00:21:06.740 somebody and the only information you have about them is their physical appearance but when you kind

00:21:11.460 of get to know and see somebody and all their complexity you know that one number actually has so many

00:21:16.540 more variables behind it we're gonna take a quick break for your word from our sponsors

00:21:20.000 and now back to the show let's let's kind of continue that thread of physical attractiveness because you

00:21:25.840 you talk about this in the research that you know people who are physically attractive tend to have

00:21:31.000 a pretty great life so i mean talk about like so it's not only just being physically attractive and

00:21:36.480 like people see you and they like you because you're physically attractive but like it also sort of like

00:21:39.520 greases the wheels for pretty much the rest of their life and all facets of their life talk about that

00:21:45.000 a little bit i honestly i ended up just researching this for months and months because i was like what

00:21:49.860 this really can't happen this can't be true but life is so much easier for physically

00:21:55.360 attractive people on so many aspects like you know when they get arrested or when they're on trial

00:22:00.420 they're more likely to be found not guilty they're more likely to be given lighter sentences

00:22:05.040 and the only case that they're actually penalized in the legal system is when the juries figure that

00:22:12.460 they use their appearance as a weapon so it's in cases of like fraud for example but just fundamentally

00:22:17.800 you know physically attractive people have better genes so we're more like just from an evolutionary

00:22:24.100 standpoint we're more motivated to bond with them you know they seem to be like free of pathogens

00:22:29.320 and that influences like how much money we give them in these economic trust games that influences

00:22:36.180 just social interactions in general because you know just imagine like everybody is always coming

00:22:42.000 up to you and they're always being super nice to you and so you just over time you feel like you have

00:22:46.920 a larger sense of social support and your self-esteem is kind of you know tends to be higher

00:22:52.500 and you just you really get graded on a curve for everything for your entire life i mean even you

00:22:57.940 know students create or teachers give students higher grades on essays when they they're attractive

00:23:03.840 students so it's all these things that you would not really even expect or you know like why would a

00:23:09.520 teacher give a cute kid a higher grade that kind of seems weird but that actually happens no i thought

00:23:14.720 the really interesting point that i didn't never thought about is if you're physically attractive

00:23:17.660 as you said people just are nice to you they're they're more willing to cut you a break and

00:23:22.240 whatever but like that will influence how you interact with the world you go out in the world

00:23:26.060 with this like sort of optimistic bias that the you know this person's a friend he's going to be a

00:23:31.520 friend of mine i don't the universe is going to you know work for me as opposed to if you didn't

00:23:36.140 have that going for you where you have to like you're always looking for threats and people like

00:23:40.500 treating you like garbage like if you have that if you've lived with that your entire life like

00:23:44.860 that can be a big boon to you oh it's huge like i i feel like you know just personally the more 0.97

00:23:50.540 physically attractive people i know are also the ones who you know they're they take more risks

00:23:55.300 they'll you know go on these trips they'll move somewhere and they'll pursue their dreams

00:24:00.000 why because they know that if they kind of get you know they all this stuff together and they pack up

00:24:04.720 and they move to the other side of the country it'll be that much easier for them to make friends and

00:24:08.460 have a new social group and so it's just kind of like wherever they go like you know there's going

00:24:13.300 to be a safety net for them and they just have that much more of a robust sense of that you know

00:24:17.820 whereas opposed to people who are you know they're in their hometown they're like oh you know what why

00:24:22.200 bother it's just that much harder and it's it's so it's one of those things it's you know they're

00:24:26.740 lucky you know physically attractive people are lucky because they get you know this good good social

00:24:32.600 stuff coming to them all the time however what that does is that ends up influencing what they bring to

00:24:37.800 the table right so they're going to be a little friendly or they're going to be a little outgoing

00:24:41.200 so that is what they're bringing to the table however they're bringing that to the table because

00:24:47.120 of this like more positive history of experiences right so physical attractiveness that's like

00:24:52.820 pure randomness right that's just genes you're whether you're the parents you had and how the genes

00:24:57.880 interacted with each other to make you so like what do you do like if you got the short end of the

00:25:03.800 physical attractiveness stick well interestingly enough i'm glad you brought this up 50 of how we

00:25:09.980 tend to rate other people in physical attractiveness is this component called grooming so i don't know

00:25:15.740 if you've ever like googled or looked up um you know oh if celebrities were like us and they have

00:25:21.180 these pictures of um things like beyonce and jay-z and they're wearing these like just hideous clothes

00:25:27.220 and they're a little bit chubby and their hair is kind of gross you know it's kind of like what you

00:25:31.120 know or like what britney spears or you know cameron diaz would look like if they were in the midwest

00:25:35.760 and it is really funny it's like oh they have the same face but it's just the rest of them you know

00:25:41.280 it's not just their face but it's like what they're doing with the rest of it so like are they in good

00:25:45.440 shape well what kind of clothes are they wearing what is their hair like are they well groomed so there

00:25:51.240 is a lot you can do with that and i think that's another one of those things where it's kind of like

00:25:55.540 the math effect like the rich get richer i think that people who have a more positive history of being

00:26:01.000 told like oh you're attractive they're more willing to kind of make the most of what they have

00:26:05.500 whereas other people who maybe are a little more self-conscious about their appearance figure like

00:26:09.940 oh why bother you know so they won't go to the gym they won't you know put any thought into what

00:26:16.540 they're wearing and people you know whether or not we'd like to admit it we're all kind of shallow

00:26:21.840 and we're all making these snap decisions about other people so yeah easy just shower shave go to the

00:26:28.120 go to the gym like that's stuff you can do it's stuff you can do absolutely and i think so i i went

00:26:34.540 shopping with a personal stylist and i spent some time with this this woman who's like a you know 1.00

00:26:39.800 social coach and so i actually started paying a little more attention to my clothes and my parents

00:26:44.720 and i am absolutely i continue to be dumbfounded and how much easier that makes social interactions

00:26:52.160 and how much better people treat me i think like it's if you're looking for like you know quick and

00:26:57.000 easy way to just make your life better like by far that has the best ratio of cost and benefits of

00:27:02.980 anything i've done so another aspect of whether people get more lucky in life is if they just have

00:27:09.420 this attitude that things are going to work their way they have confidence and a lot of people think

00:27:14.800 that you know you either have confidence or you don't you're born with it or you're not but you

00:27:18.960 you highlight research no it's not the case you can actually develop your confidence oh absolutely

00:27:23.480 you can develop your confidence in any aspect of your life i think confidence is really us knowing

00:27:28.980 that you know what things will be okay if if they don't work out things might go to hell in a hand 0.69

00:27:34.340 basket and i think it's a lot of it has to do with attention so it's just how much attention do we give

00:27:40.400 the potential rewards or how much attention do we pay to our our mistakes so i notice now like you know

00:27:46.840 people who are really confident someone who's really confident and let's say someone who's kind

00:27:50.440 of anxious or insecure they can go and do the same thing right so say maybe they'll go up to someone

00:27:56.440 they're attracted to and they'll you know ask them on a date you know and the person who is kind of

00:28:01.140 more confident they'll be like oh if you say no like okay you know thanks but they won't crumble you

00:28:07.240 know they won't kind of ruminate they won't obsess over it they will realize that that is not in any sort

00:28:11.720 of like objective statement about their self-worth whereas someone who's kind of insecure they might

00:28:16.480 ruminate and get down on it and then like obsess over that negative thing forever so a confident

00:28:21.560 person has like that approach attitude towards rewards whereas like unconfident they have like a

00:28:26.140 avoidance like they're unconfident people they they fear the downsides more than they than they are

00:28:32.320 going after the rewards whereas confident people focus more on the rewards right so less confident

00:28:37.520 people they have a more active what's called a behavioral inhibition system which is like

00:28:42.700 essentially just our brain kind of putting the brakes on our behavior whereas confident people you

00:28:47.740 know they're all about like approaching rewards and like not really letting other things get in their

00:28:52.380 way and so often if you look at it it really is just us getting in our own way you know it's our

00:28:57.280 our attitude or our anxieties or our obsession over this bad thing that's going to happen and we're so

00:29:02.640 sure of it no but that's another place where luck does play a role a little bit

00:29:06.660 is our temperament is also determined by genetics often gays you know neurotic people or neurotic 0.99

00:29:12.060 often because they got neurotic parents or neurotic grandparents so but even though that's the case

00:29:17.240 there's still wiggle room for you to to shape that though absolutely i think that's like one of the

00:29:22.700 really cool things you know that i studied is that you know whenever we're talking about like oh is it

00:29:26.320 is it genes or is it something that we can learn you know and those questions the answer is really both

00:29:32.840 you know it's always both so it's maybe you do have like the genes that make you you know learn

00:29:38.340 from mistakes more easily than rewards which is actually you know a potential thing because of all

00:29:43.240 these different um variabilities in our dopamine receptors but it really is just attention and how

00:29:48.960 much attention we pay to things so people who might have really anxious or neurotic parents

00:29:53.180 they might have that those bad genes that you know make their dopamine receptors more likely to learn

00:29:58.460 from mistakes but then they also end up paying attention to this more so it is possible absolutely

00:30:03.840 to have like this bad you know mix of genes but then over time just train yourself you know through

00:30:10.420 like meditation or mindfulness or just um all these little things you can do it's like self-affirmation

00:30:15.480 studies just focus on the good things and let yourself be guided by the rewards instead of

00:30:19.940 just fearful of the potential bad things so you also talk about olympic athletes and we usually

00:30:25.320 hold these guys up as like paragons of hard work that wasn't luck at all but you highlight research

00:30:31.180 no oftentimes luck plays a big role in first that these guys became olympic athletes and then second

00:30:37.180 that they they you know got the gold medal instead of the silver medal talk about that so i use olympic

00:30:43.140 athletes and expertise as sort of this example of as we were saying before it's like in order to reach

00:30:49.120 that huge kind of success you know whether it's like you know for a startup or a musician or something

00:30:53.660 those like super great heights it's not just a matter of fact of like one thing going right it's that

00:30:59.040 absolutely every single thing has to go right so for olympic athletes for example if you look at them

00:31:04.760 they happen to be people who fell in love with the sport that they happen to be genetically suited to

00:31:11.300 when they were young enough and then they got great coaching so that by the time they you know

00:31:17.420 reached their physiological peak in their early 20s their skill set was also you know world class

00:31:23.200 um you know and then along the way they were just mentally tough and they really believed in their

00:31:27.940 ability to continue getting better you know they have no serious setbacks or illnesses or injuries

00:31:32.960 and then also you know when you look at game day you know as we were saying before the later on you go

00:31:39.420 during the day like the more likely you are to be graded higher you know so even on game day timing can

00:31:44.840 play a huge role and then on game day also because you're also dealing with these like

00:31:49.040 the effects or the the difference between like silver and gold metal can just be you know

00:31:55.040 such a fraction of a second so everything on game day also has to go perfectly as well

00:31:59.400 it's like absolutely every single thing i think of it's like this race and all these different

00:32:03.900 hurdles so it's like you have to clear every single hurdle and not all of them are entirely up to you

00:32:09.520 no right so like what can we take away from these guys like this average joe's right

00:32:14.320 who want to tap into that same thing that sort of luck thread that these guys tapped into what

00:32:19.860 can we learn from them well i think part of it is honestly like just hanging out with more positive

00:32:26.100 people as i was actually just listening to the interview i did with the sociologist who studied

00:32:31.320 coaching and athletes at all different levels and he said that so much of it comes out of these group

00:32:35.560 settings right like people they don't just kind of magically think like oh i'm going to be an

00:32:39.820 olympic athlete it's that they hang out with other people who are really positive and just inspire

00:32:43.460 them to work harder instead of you know these olympic athletes you know most likely their best

00:32:48.540 friends are not the guys who are saying like oh god you're going to the gym come on just you know

00:32:52.660 come over let's play a game so one of it is group settings and just making sure you you know hang out

00:32:57.140 with people that you admire and want to be like and then also just this steadfast belief in your ability

00:33:03.080 to just get better just get a little bit better and have the mental resourcefulness to believe that

00:33:09.260 no you can do this like you know whatever is in your control you can kind of make that happen you

00:33:15.500 know i have this poster on my wall my office i'm looking right now it says you can have results or

00:33:20.140 excuses but not both and that is entirely true i think the more excuses you make like oh i can't do

00:33:25.980 this the more you just set yourself up for failure for just not getting better and i always think like

00:33:31.620 you know what however hard i think i have it there's someone out there who has had it even harder

00:33:37.320 and they've gone even further than me no for sure i think another takeaway i got from it as well is

00:33:43.100 like find the thing that suits you right exactly that was one of the things glad you brought that up

00:33:50.020 that's pretty much the whole point of the chapter olympic athletes are also they just have had the

00:33:55.220 luck of finding something that they genuinely love so i think when you find something that you genuinely

00:34:00.620 love and then you focus on how good it feels to get better i think people often mistake you know

00:34:05.640 their insane dedication is like oh how can they do that to themselves 10 hours a day

00:34:09.280 but actually you know in talking to them they it does not feel like work to them at all and that

00:34:15.060 is so important because number one it decreases people's likelihood of burning out because they

00:34:20.340 just genuinely love it and then you know i have a story in there about like tony hawk i mean after he

00:34:26.760 and like his friend won some you know major skateboarding competition you know they celebrated for a little

00:34:31.520 bit but then like you know half an hour later they were out in the back practicing new moves because

00:34:37.400 they just they loved it so much that is something that they would have done in their free time

00:34:42.460 anyways because they loved it so much and then when you look at just the cumulative effect of all that

00:34:47.820 practice that adds up so much no it does and i think this opens up the idea i think we have in america

00:34:54.940 with this idea like never quit and you keep going and even if it's it's hard but like might the best

00:35:01.880 thing to do might be quit what you're doing because it's just not suited for you and find that thing

00:35:05.860 that is suited for you yeah i think that's one of the really tricky things because you know i'm studying

00:35:11.220 like all these little the impacts of say like good coaching or you know how much people improve over

00:35:17.080 time you know people can be light bloomers you know maybe i'll find their groove you know later on

00:35:23.900 however you don't really know that so there's no it's really tricky because there's no like

00:35:28.840 good rule of thumb for like should you keep doing this thing are you going to get really good

00:35:33.200 or should you just quit but i think a lot of it does just have to do with like what do you really love

00:35:37.880 i guess it depends you know what do you really love what doesn't feel like work and then also like

00:35:41.920 what do you maybe realistically have a better chance of succeeding in so those are kind of a tricky

00:35:47.940 tricky fields to negotiate but i think it's you know somewhere between those two right no yeah that takes

00:35:53.120 some practical wisdom to figure out so another thing too that can increase our luck is just simply

00:35:59.480 thinking that luck is on our side did you find any research that talked about that idea yeah so there's

00:36:06.700 a lot of awesome research in like performance psychology you know people who you know they have

00:36:11.600 positive expectations or you know enhanced expectancies about the future they end up just doing

00:36:18.080 better like across the board there's you know one study people who had some sort of superstitious

00:36:23.600 token when they took a test they actually ended up performing better because they were less anxious

00:36:28.440 they were more confident so people who are even people who are religious and pray and then they

00:36:34.420 believe like god is on their side they also have more confidence and they're able to muster more

00:36:38.500 energy and you know they're they genuinely believe that they can do the thing so they're actually more

00:36:43.800 likely to go out and do the thing and i think that people don't realize how it's one of those things

00:36:49.260 that's it's very simple it's not easy but it's very simple yeah i've got my lucky tokens that i've got 0.99

00:36:55.380 my lucky pair of socks yeah and i know there are some coaches who think like oh that's stupid you should 0.89

00:36:59.960 be able to you know do that all on your own but i feel like that's ridiculous because if it helps you 0.63

00:37:04.860 why not you know why not use that no for sure yeah we had an author on a few weeks ago talking about

00:37:11.060 sports recovery and all these gizmos that have come out in the last few years like cryotherapy

00:37:16.280 and massage rollers and basically the research says it doesn't really do much but like people

00:37:22.020 think it does and it so that as as a result it helps them it's like the placebo effect and like

00:37:26.520 she was saying that's fine like that's okay if going if sitting in a cryo spa you know makes you

00:37:33.000 feel good and helps you recover like makes you feel like you're recovering and helps you perform better

00:37:36.820 do it absolutely 100 like core wager he had this awesome thing on like expectancies and we're

00:37:42.260 talking about this for a very long time it's like you know what like those are real effects and why

00:37:46.260 would you deny yourself the benefit of those effects it makes yeah so you think you're being 0.99

00:37:51.180 really logical like no it's it's very you know stupid i'm too you know scientifically minded to you 0.99

00:37:57.520 know bring that little rabbit's foot or that little thing that won't help me but if it would help 0.99

00:38:02.280 you it's actually like more illogical to not make use of that right so what do you what is all this

00:38:08.040 you mentioned it earlier but how's all this research about you know increasing our luck which is

00:38:12.860 basically trying to you know take in account these human factors that often sway whether something

00:38:19.560 happens to us or not and influencing them but like how's this research influenced you when things

00:38:25.400 don't go your way when you're unlucky this sounds so cheesy and it's one of those things that i've

00:38:30.200 seen so many times like you know cliche posters or like what your grandmother would say but it

00:38:34.880 actually ends up having really you know scientifically valid background is you know use failure as a

00:38:40.440 learning experience and that is it and i think i used to think of you know any kind of failure or

00:38:45.600 setback as just this overall you know marker of my worth or my overall ability but i think if you can

00:38:52.080 kind of remove yourself and look at the situation objectively and look at your part in things

00:38:57.600 and just kind of use that as information to just keep going forward or learn and maybe change your

00:39:03.360 strategy or routine a little bit and go on if that is the most beneficial most beneficial reaction to

00:39:09.380 have even if that whole like learning strategy is just you know what i'm gonna persist i'm gonna you

00:39:14.120 know do this one more time because it really is you know how many times you're gonna get up right

00:39:19.500 to say like what a master is somebody who has failed more times than the novice has even tried

00:39:23.780 right and also just don't take it personally it's like well you know had nothing to do with me

00:39:27.500 the guy saw me and reminded me that i reminded him of his crazy uncle that's why i didn't get the job

00:39:32.240 absolutely like yeah it had nothing to do with me but also like however i can like maximize my

00:39:37.100 desirability as a candidate you know however what this guy says that doesn't mean i'm bad

00:39:41.820 right so is that that luck paradox so you're like you know believing in luck can own

00:39:46.000 unmotivate you really the the upside of not believing in luck is it motivates you right

00:39:51.780 you have you have you have sense of control but the upside of also like also understanding that

00:39:56.060 luck plays a role is like when things don't go your way you can be like okay i did everything i

00:40:00.440 could this is a learning point i'm going to keep moving forward despite that one yes absolutely

00:40:06.300 it is it's that luck paradox right so it's like it doesn't have anything to do with you because

00:40:10.740 it might have been the shirt you're wearing however right once you bring to the table you can

00:40:14.920 learn and be persistent and keep going well carla it's been a great conversation where can people

00:40:20.000 go to learn more about the book and your work thank you so much for having me they can go to

00:40:23.260 my website it's kstar.com k-s-t-a-r-r.com awesome well carla star thanks so much time it's been a

00:40:28.960 pleasure thank you so much for having me it's been great my guest today was carla star she is the

00:40:33.020 author of the book can you learn to be lucky to be on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere you can

00:40:37.580 find more information about her work and the book at her website kstar that's star with two r's

00:40:42.260 kstar.com also check out our show notes at aom.is slash lucky you can find links to resources

00:40:47.560 we can delve deeper into the topic well that wraps up another edition of the a1 podcast check

00:41:04.540 out our website at art of manliness.com where you see our podcast archives got over 480 there

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The Art of Manliness - March 13, 2019

#490： Can You Learn to Be Lucky？

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