The Art of Manliness - #562： How Boxing Can Fight Parkinson's Disease

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast if boxing and

00:00:12.060 parkinson's disease are thought of together it's usually in the terms of the former causing the

00:00:15.900 latter but my guest today makes the case that boxing workouts can actually be used to fight

00:00:19.700 parkinson's disease his name is aaron sloan he's a registered nurse and the owner of engine room

00:00:23.840 boxing gym here in tulsa oklahoma and the founder of ready to fight boxing fitness program caters

00:00:28.680 specifically to those suffering from parkinson's disease we begin our conversation with an

00:00:32.520 overview what parkinson's is as well as the fact that men are significantly more likely to get it

00:00:36.700 than women aaron then shares what the research says about the best treatments for parkinson's why

00:00:40.620 vigorous high intensity exercise is one of the most potent remedies for it and why he argues that

00:00:44.940 boxing is the gold standard when it comes to the type of exercise that's most effective in slowing

00:00:49.240 down the disorder aaron shares how he started ready to fight based on this premise and a few stories

00:00:53.660 of how the lives of parkinson's patients and their families are being changed by the program we then

00:00:57.880 discuss whether boxing also causes parkinson's and how aaron answers the criticism that he trains

00:01:02.480 people in a sport that also creates the disorder he's trying to alleviate we enter conversation

00:01:06.340 discussing what individuals with parkinson's can do to learn more about incorporating boxing workouts

00:01:10.520 into its treatment after the show's over check out our show notes at aom.is ready to fight

00:01:15.220 all right aaron sloan welcome to the show oh thanks for having me i appreciate it so we are here at

00:01:31.740 your boxing gym here in tulsa oklahoma engine room boxing and we're going to talk about boxing but you

00:01:36.460 have an interesting twist on it but before we get to that twist how did you get started with boxing

00:01:42.020 what's your story well my i think like a lot of uh probably guys that got into their fathers or

00:01:48.040 grandfathers my grandfather was a boxer um when he was young so he always talked about boxing and

00:01:53.560 we would always watch the you know watch the fights together you know mike tyson he liked so

00:01:57.900 you know i was maybe 11 or 12 we'd have to go to the convenience store and buy the rent a little box

00:02:01.900 you bring home put on the tv and watch the and watch the fight so you know of course anything he was

00:02:07.540 kind of my hero and i looked up to him so anything that he was into you know that's kind of what i

00:02:11.920 what i was into so um i was always interested and curious about you know you know we were just kind of

00:02:17.460 the background that i came from we were just kind of mean rough little kids anyway and we'd get out

00:02:22.520 in the yard and box with the little sugar ray leonard boxing gloves and wrap my grandma's you know

00:02:27.240 dish towels around her hand our hands and box and in the yard and so that kind of got my interest up and

00:02:33.220 as as i got older and wanted to pursue that i started you know seeking out the local boxing

00:02:38.320 gyms and and and probably started when i was around i think i started actually boxing when i was 17

00:02:43.280 did you ever compete yeah i competed for about four and a half years only amateurs i never did any

00:02:49.260 any pro stuff box at the north tulsa boxing club here in tulsa and my trainer was ed duncan who's

00:02:56.180 a decently known coach it's basically around here he trained a quick tillus and dale cook and

00:03:01.700 you know some of our other bigger name guys has actually came out of oklahoma and so when did you

00:03:07.660 transition from fighting to training when did that happen you know i i was boxing at a early age and

00:03:16.380 looking back on it now i understand that you know we didn't travel a lot because our our coaches and

00:03:21.300 our program didn't have much money to travel so we were just i did a lot of training and didn't get a

00:03:26.040 whole lot of fights you know we didn't travel nationally or anything like that so and i got a decent job in

00:03:31.140 sales and and that took a lot of time so i just kind of phased myself out of the boxing even though

00:03:35.160 i i wanted to do it and continue to do it it's just more of a hobby for me i didn't have a you know

00:03:39.500 grand aspirations that going on and been a a world champion fighter or anything like that i just i i just

00:03:45.140 enjoyed the sport so got involved in sales and fast forward you know several you know 10 years ahead and

00:03:53.040 decided to go to nursing school when the construction market slowed down i sold industrial supply sales so

00:03:59.040 that slowed down and i ended up putting myself through nursing school and getting out of that

00:04:03.260 wanting to kind of you know exercise and stuff i started thinking about boxing again and i didn't

00:04:08.540 want to of course too old to compete and i was maybe 30 i think 35 i've been in it 10 years now so

00:04:15.220 about 35 years old i thought well maybe if i started you know coaching some kids or something like that

00:04:19.960 it would you know get me my fix for boxing and get that get that part of it kind of let me play a

00:04:25.980 little bit in the sport again so i rented like a little basically a storage building storage unit

00:04:31.080 in owasso outside of tulsa and opened it up hung a few bags in it and and put an ad in the paper and

00:04:37.640 the next thing you know we had a lot of school kids coming so so you started training school kids but

00:04:42.840 then you started training a different type of client and this was clients with parkinson's disease

00:04:48.860 how did that happen like what and we're going to talk about this program you developed this it's a

00:04:53.960 boxing program for parkinson's patients but how did you start training people with parkinson's

00:04:59.620 disease in boxing you know i told you we started the gym in owasso and it was mostly just you know

00:05:04.860 training like i said competitive kids to box but but you know by the time i was there for a few years

00:05:10.040 we had people asking to maybe do some fitness training and i had a girl that i'd i'd work with

00:05:14.760 that had cerebral palsy actually and out there and so having my nursing background then and then doing

00:05:20.340 this boxing it was it was kind of in the back of my head to do something a little more health related

00:05:24.100 but i just started on this nursing career and i just never entertained the idea of it so we

00:05:28.820 fast forward a few years and i've had five years of coaching experience running the gym

00:05:34.160 and kind of started deciding you know i'd like to try to make a push it in this full time i trained a

00:05:39.820 few boxers that kind of made it to a national level and i knew if i was going to coach those guys at

00:05:44.340 that level i needed to have more time to do it you know i couldn't be working part-time anymore

00:05:47.820 then they could be working a lot of hours either you know so we moved to tulsa and we opened this

00:05:52.280 facility and i was here for about a year and one of the local doctors um had a patient that had been

00:05:59.660 diagnosed with parkinson's disease and he had seen you know that of course that exercise is one of the

00:06:05.620 we can talk about later but exercise is one of the main things that slows down the progression of

00:06:09.640 parkinson's disease and so he recommended that he come to the boxing gym and gets get a and start

00:06:15.680 training here so bobby moore is his name and he he came probably i guess maybe three and a half years

00:06:20.520 ago and i started doing personal training with him one-on-one just for his fitness and i think we

00:06:26.560 did maybe 24 sessions and he went and visited his physical therapist and the physical therapist had

00:06:34.400 noticed such increase in his ability that he reached out to the parkinson's foundation of oklahoma and had

00:06:40.720 those guys contact me about see if i wanted to start a class so and that's what ready to fight

00:06:45.380 it's all about and before we get into more about the program what sort of how do you you tailor the

00:06:50.400 boxing program for these guys let's talk about parkinson's general for those who aren't too

00:06:54.420 familiar with it so reminder listeners what is parkinson's disease what are the symptoms do we know

00:06:59.460 what causes it things like that yeah i mean parkinson's disease is a it's a degenerative disorder so

00:07:05.220 once you get it it's there's no cure for it it's going to continue to get worse over time it's a

00:07:10.580 disorder it affects our central nervous system so it primarily targets motor movement so anything that's

00:07:15.720 a motor movement is going to be affected by it so it can affect of course your your balance your speech

00:07:21.260 your handwriting usually most people would picture parkinson's disease with a tremor course in in one

00:07:27.420 hand or sometimes both but usually just one side but there's more like they picture the shaking

00:07:32.840 their rigidity somebody like michael j foxx or freddie roach is who they think of but there's

00:07:36.640 a lot of other things that go along with it just a general slowing of movement people lose their

00:07:41.040 facial expressions they um like i said lose their speech there's a lot of uh sleep insomnia disorder 1.00

00:07:46.700 that goes along with it and just you know a lot of dementia that can come along at a certain point in

00:07:51.800 time so and do we know does it affect men or women more or is it about the same no it affects a lot

00:07:56.940 more men than than women i think i think it's 70 i think so the number that's affected more men

00:08:03.520 compared to women i really don't know why it affects more men than women but it most definitely 0.98

00:08:07.880 does genetics can play a part in in developing the disease they know you know maybe 15 and then

00:08:14.200 chemical exposure so there's if you're exposed to a lot of pesticides or you've been like in the in

00:08:19.560 the gulf war a lot of those guys that were got affected by chemical some of the chemicals and

00:08:23.620 things that were used over there um but the rest of the people it's kind of a unknown unknown

00:08:28.820 quantity they really don't they really don't know yet why it targets some people and not others

00:08:33.080 and yeah i mean and it definitely affects significantly the quality of life of an individual i mean absolutely

00:08:38.360 right so let's talk about what the research says so there's no cure for it for parkinson's but what

00:08:43.180 does the research say that what can help parkinson's patients well i mean primarily we know that

00:08:48.620 medications the front line approach so parkinson's patients suffer from either a lack of dopamine or

00:08:55.160 the ability to use it so levodopa or l-dopa is going to be almost every parkinson's patient is going to

00:09:01.020 be on on dopamine their surgeries and stuff like deep brain stimulation also as well but next to that the

00:09:06.840 next line of defense is exercise so it's proven without a fact you know clinically that exercise

00:09:13.520 slows down the progression and it helps the neuroplasticity in our brain helps us regenerate

00:09:19.720 neurons new pathways and it also helps the ability for us to uptake and regulate our dopamine better

00:09:25.060 and it needs to be a forced intensity exercise exercise is good but when it's a forced intensity

00:09:30.200 in it and when i say forced intensity i don't necessarily mean it has to be hard it means that

00:09:35.260 it has to be something that's not at your own pace so i compare a little bit to you know if you went

00:09:41.380 walked outside at your own pace it's not as beneficial as if i stick you on a treadmill and set

00:09:45.700 you at a pace right so it it just it affects the brain differently when it's forced intensity so

00:09:51.260 so you won't find any hardly any parkinson's client that hasn't been recommended exercise and there's a

00:09:57.760 lot of forms of exercise people do dance and they do cycling and boxing is what we're talking about here

00:10:02.780 you know here of course today but there's a lot of different exercise that they they push for for

00:10:07.380 clients to do and what do you think so boxing is definitely there's a forced intensity there

00:10:12.620 because i mean i've i've done the stuff like the heavy bag workouts and i just want to die yeah after

00:10:18.660 it so there's definitely forced intensity but do you think there's something else going on with

00:10:23.240 boxing the movements you do in boxing that sort of like it's like a secret sauce that can help

00:10:29.060 parkinson's patients i do you know and that's what we're i think most people's kind of come into the

00:10:35.180 consensus at that boxing is kind of the gold standard of exercise for parkinson's disease

00:10:39.540 there's some other parkinson's boxing programs out there of course as well we think that ours is

00:10:44.760 superior because of some of the changes and things that we've done with it but i kind of tell people

00:10:49.000 i don't know how familiar you know you are our listeners are with boxing but you said you've tried

00:10:54.800 to box before so you know that there's a certain movement that goes along with that and you see a

00:10:58.620 boxer and he's moving and it's real fluid and it's it's it's like watching a ballet dancer and it's

00:11:03.500 it's a lot of rhythm that goes along with it and so when you're a coach and you see i say this

00:11:09.200 sometimes when i'm a coach and i see people come in if you came through the door and you wanted me

00:11:13.760 to teach you how to box you don't move like a boxer yet and so then i get a person with

00:11:18.540 parkinson's disease that comes in they can't move like a boxer yet to me you both have movement

00:11:22.720 disorders i mean so i need to train both of you how to move and be balanced and fight like a fighter so

00:11:28.240 i take that approach with all of them it's not i don't want to run a acute program that's

00:11:35.080 only just a feel-good program that we're oh yeah we're training parkinson's people to box and they

00:11:39.420 just get to get by with everything no if you come to me the box i'm going to train you like you're a

00:11:44.140 fighter and i'm going to teach you how to box correctly and so i think with our program it's

00:11:47.640 it's made a big difference to approach it that with balance reaction time hand and eye coordination

00:11:52.340 and boxing is kind of just is built for parkinson's disease on accident if i put a client on a speed

00:11:59.300 bag if they're getting the hand and eye coordination from that it takes a lot of hand and eye coordination

00:12:03.020 to do that and nobody can hit a speed bag when they first start doesn't matter if they have

00:12:06.680 parkinson's disease or not but that bag is a speed bag is a forced intensity exercise because of the

00:12:12.080 rhythm of it once you hit it it's going to come back and you have to hit it again and so it's telling

00:12:17.040 you when you're going to hit it you can't make up your mind when you're going to hit it it only has

00:12:20.400 one rhythm and you're going to have to adapt to that rhythm in order to be able to hit it

00:12:23.900 and all the bags in the gym are the same way if you hit a heavy bag it swings and so when it swings

00:12:28.480 back you got to hit it or you got to move or it's going to push you off balance and so the equipment

00:12:33.240 in itself if you teach them the right techniques are going to challenge the the the symptoms that

00:12:39.200 they have and then in boxing you're throwing a lot of you you're doing a lot of twisting motion so

00:12:44.360 parkinson's patients suffer from horrible rigidity so they get where they can't twist you'll see

00:12:48.720 them turn and they turn their whole walk their whole body around because their neck stiff their

00:12:51.720 waist is stiff they don't have enough dopamine to allow those muscles to relax enough to do that

00:12:56.660 and so in boxing there's a lot of twisting motion there's a lot of rotation and put you on the punch

00:13:01.960 mitts you're going to punch when i tell you to punch you throw the punches that i tell you to throw you 0.98

00:13:05.640 don't get to choose which one of those punches you get to throw so it's just net boxing is just

00:13:10.400 accidentally tailor-made for the symptoms of of parkinson's disease so has there been any research done yet

00:13:16.640 on boxing and parkinson's we haven't been able to find uh really any research studies that's been

00:13:22.120 targeted just for that but we have just now got irb approval and started research on our program here

00:13:29.100 through tulsa university so we've been working on getting that approval and getting that program

00:13:33.900 started for research for the last couple years and we just we just now reached that point so we're kind

00:13:38.280 of we're kind of getting the you know the critical mass with this program right right now with our

00:13:42.320 parkinson's program after a couple years so we're excited we're really excited and all the neurologists

00:13:47.240 and the doctors think that that's really going to bear bear some fruit and and kind of show what

00:13:52.240 we're seeing in the gym which is extraordinary results and another cool thing i'll make a note on

00:13:58.520 with this research study is that we're actually going to research the caregivers and the spouses so

00:14:03.120 we're going to see what difference this program makes in their lives because if we can if we can improve

00:14:08.060 the quality of the patient that's suffering from the disease and their life is a little easier and

00:14:12.780 they're easier to get around and they're not falling at home and they're not doing those kind

00:14:15.600 of things it definitely makes it easier for their wife and it takes a lot of stress off of them and 0.99

00:14:20.260 makes their life a lot easier so that's really interesting you guys thought of that because some

00:14:23.420 people overlook the caregiver aspect of disease and i'm sure as a nurse you you know you've seen

00:14:28.420 that firsthand how it can add a lot of stress to a family sure and it's it it spirals down and you

00:14:33.620 know it's it's uh there is a lot of you know the program the art of manliness there is some manliness

00:14:39.500 uh traits that come along with men that hinder them for this you know it's primarily affecting men

00:14:44.680 but the first thing these men do especially from this generation most people suffer from parkinson's

00:14:49.860 disease is over 60 years old and so you get a lot of men that they get off balance and they're worried

00:14:54.800 about falling and their what their spouses are old and so what they'll do is they'll shut themselves 0.99

00:14:59.360 up in the house they won't they won't go to the store because they're afraid what if i fall my wife's

00:15:03.540 not going to be able to get me back up or they're not going to be able to get me to the car and she's 0.99

00:15:07.000 not going to be able to help me i don't want to put her in that situation you know so the men will 1.00

00:15:10.640 just stay home and won't leave and so as soon as they sit down and they i mean they go downhill

00:15:16.180 quick i mean you have to get started on exercise right they're not moving yeah they're not making

00:15:20.540 it worse and so you know that's a big it's a big problem and it's it's a it's an ego that is driven

00:15:25.960 from that generation and from that from being a man of saying well i'm not gonna i'm not gonna put my

00:15:30.860 spouse in that position so once they get in here and they get this this group of guys it's really

00:15:35.360 cool to watch it i mean it's really neat to watch so you started uh your first park anticipation was

00:15:39.500 three years ago four years ago a little over three years ago how many do you have in the program now

00:15:44.620 and ready to fight i think we got right around 30 right now um and then we have we actually already

00:15:49.340 have some affiliates as well so i've got an affiliate in and edmond that has about i think 15 people in it

00:15:54.940 we just started one in muskogee and we've got an affiliate that we're that's up and running in

00:15:59.800 mccallister so and what's the breakdown is it mostly men age what does that look like

00:16:05.120 uh it's mostly men i think maybe in our program we've i think i've probably got maybe

00:16:10.720 eight females out of the 30 participants that's in there um and then anything under 60 years old 0.99

00:16:18.620 we consider early onset and so there's probably maybe three or four of those individuals that are

00:16:23.300 early onset and just to clarify you're not you're not putting headsets on these guys

00:16:28.000 gear on and like they're pounding each other it's just like it's a fitness box yeah it's just fitness

00:16:31.720 boxing yeah yes and i think it's interesting because you know you know boxing and parkinson's a lot of

00:16:35.880 people think of parkinson's they think of muhammad ali sure and they attribute some people attribute

00:16:40.180 his boxing career or his parkinson's to his boxing career there is any connection there yeah of course and

00:16:46.340 you know i get i get that question because you you know you get these questions how do you

00:16:50.100 even with just a boxing in general how do you as a nurse justify working these guys corners and

00:16:56.020 knowing that getting head trauma is not good you know and you you're participating you're training

00:17:01.100 them to do this and the same the same thing comes up with the parkinson's patients to where

00:17:04.720 i've embraced a sport that can be a create parkinson's disease and then we're using the same sport to

00:17:10.860 to help it so when you see like ali and and freddie roach there's no doubt that boxing brought that

00:17:16.440 on but what we look at what we think in the in a medical world is that genetics loaded the gun and

00:17:22.340 parkinson's pulled the trigger you know so they may have been already predisposed for it and and

00:17:26.820 rough sport and head trauma brought it on but you know i i have a little chip on my shoulder about when

00:17:32.580 when i answer these kind of questions especially just with with my with my athletes because there's

00:17:37.540 so many sports out here that you know that people let their kids do and they don't want to let them

00:17:41.760 box and amateur boxing is as a is a fairly safe sport we're we really regulate it close to make

00:17:47.840 sure nobody's mismatched or outclassed and things of that nature but you know to me the sport's going

00:17:53.460 to go on it's been going on forever it's going to happen no matter what and i just i find it my job

00:17:59.120 to make sure i'm as educated as i can about keeping my athletes safe you know i've got the background to

00:18:05.020 do it i've i'm a good coach i want to keep my coaching standards up and so i i really these guys are

00:18:11.620 going to do it anyway it's my job to make sure they do it as safely as possible whether i condone

00:18:15.340 it or not not tell my boxers all the time if you want to anytime you want to come and fill out a

00:18:19.100 fafsa and go to college let's go do that instead but if you're going to do the sport we're going to 0.97

00:18:23.660 do it right we're going to do it as safe as we can and we're going to try to make sure you have a

00:18:27.180 you know have a long a long career with the sport that you're choosing to do yeah i mean when you

00:18:32.520 said like genetics you know loaded you know cock the gun and the the sport trigger i mean it reminds me

00:18:37.120 of you hear about those people who keel over during a marathon which you think like well it's a

00:18:41.560 marathon their heart should be healthy but you know they had some sort of genetic malfunction you

00:18:45.520 know something that's wrong and it the stress just caused them to die it was going to happen anyways

00:18:49.560 the the race probably just sped it up yeah it definitely can it definitely can speed it up and

00:18:54.680 you know people get focused on things like that because it's it's in the public eye but i mean

00:18:59.440 people will come and ask me that question and you know they took a bigger chance of driving their

00:19:03.860 car to come and ask me that question than what my boxers are taking in the ring and then we don't

00:19:07.660 ban cars because people die in them every day you know it's it's you you have some good and

00:19:12.320 and some bad to come along with it and to me the good of boxing highly highly outweighs

00:19:17.920 the negative that comes along with it it helps so many kids in in troubled situations it helps

00:19:23.300 people with their confidence and i get people here even here i mean i train a high a lot of

00:19:26.940 executives and a lot of business owners and things like that and they're never going to fight but they

00:19:31.760 train just as hard and you know they come to me and tell me what's this helped me with my confidence

00:19:35.860 in my negotiating skills this helps me with my business this helped me just get my stress out

00:19:40.060 and take my mind off the day so it's the same thing with the parkinson's box i mean we're going to

00:19:43.940 affect some a lot many more people i've had people actually tell me i'm almost glad i got parkinson's

00:19:49.460 because i was in such bad shape before this is the healthiest i've ever been because they actually

00:19:54.240 got serious enough to start training you know and bobby the guy that came to me he he was on a cane

00:19:59.600 and he's he doesn't use his cane anymore he had a tremor in his hand that's not noticed anymore

00:20:05.220 which that may have more to do with the medication than it does with me but but he's lost 40 pounds

00:20:09.460 since he's been here and i mean he's he's a machine now i mean he's training like three classes a day and

00:20:13.900 he was you know having to sit down in between every round when he came and he's like you know i'm i'm

00:20:19.400 healthier than i've ever been you know i'm gonna outrun this thing i'm gonna beat this thing and he's

00:20:23.280 like i may have died of a heart attack if i wouldn't have started boxing you know so well let's talk

00:20:27.720 about some of the the some of the stories of

00:20:29.600 people who've come to the this program and it's it's helped them so you mentioned bobby came in

00:20:33.700 with a cane started doing it and you said you know the medications also involved there but i mean

00:20:37.940 what are some of the other stories of individuals that have come in who've never boxed before never

00:20:41.940 thought they'd be a boxer but somehow their doctor said hey she goes to this place on sixth street

00:20:47.640 in tulsa oklahoma and start boxing and how did their life change after that you know the the first

00:20:53.440 thing you see with people is everybody's a little nervous to come to a boxing gym you know

00:20:57.560 especially they're scared to go to any gym it's extra scary to go to a boxing gym so i can't

00:21:02.160 imagine the the amount of bravery it takes for these people to come when they have Parkinson's

00:21:07.080 disease and walk into a gym like mine and say they want to box so the moment they make that first day

00:21:12.580 it's you can see it in their facial expressions you can see it in their confidence that you know they

00:21:17.760 feel like they've already accomplished something once they're here so that's that's the first thing we

00:21:22.080 notice but the biggest thing interestingly enough is it's the same with the exercise patients we try

00:21:27.400 to get people hooked on boxing i try to get people to fall in love with boxing so if i can sell you on

00:21:32.020 boxing and you start learning about boxing and you fall in love with the sport and you start

00:21:35.500 understanding more of the sport the the the getting in shape and all the other things that come along

00:21:41.480 with it are just side effects of the things that you're going to do as a lifestyle so my whole belief

00:21:46.860 system is based around changing somebody's lifestyle not about worried about your weight or worried

00:21:50.620 about the things that you have so with the Parkinson's people i don't treat them like

00:21:54.060 they're any much you know different than anybody else we have exercise alter you know modifications

00:21:58.660 we have to make of course it's specific for them but you know i i want them to learn how to box and so

00:22:03.740 i sell them on the boxing and you know they feel part of the community and they've got a good group

00:22:08.500 here and so the biggest thing that we see right away is just the the psychosocial benefit i mean

00:22:12.600 it's life-changing and it's fast i mean it's fast how much difference it makes in people's lives so

00:22:18.080 so are they are they training with other Parkinson's patients other Parkinson's patients but like down

00:22:23.040 here at the gym now when the classes are here though that's a mixed group so there's other boxers in 0.96

00:22:27.040 here and fighters and things like that and like we discussed a little bit before the before the show

00:22:31.680 i had an individual gym set up for just those guys for the last three years and we moved it because

00:22:36.680 we're moving all in-house but so we'll all be in the same gym there'll be other fighters around

00:22:40.440 other boxers around you know for the duration of this and that's how most gyms will be

00:22:44.080 that we set up across the country will be you know they'll be set up inside actual boxing gyms

00:22:49.520 and facilities and that's what our hope is not all of them will be that way but we want them inside

00:22:53.040 of actual boxing gym in a facility so it's a little more intimidating at first but i think once they

00:22:57.400 get in there it's a it's a pretty cool thing for them how's it affected your boxers without

00:23:02.040 Parkinson's working with these with these guys who have Parkinson's it's actually pretty neat to watch

00:23:08.000 because you know it's it's a requirement actually of my boxers that are on my team and the people

00:23:12.460 that work for me most of the guys that work for me here and help me at the gym are my current fighters

00:23:16.940 you know so when they're young guys 20 21 years old a lot of them some 16 15 but you know i have

00:23:22.980 them go down hold mitts for for the Parkinson's patients and help run the classes and things

00:23:26.600 like that and it's it's a really cool dynamic because it's i think with any young person the

00:23:31.440 same as it did with me when they come in it gives you some true appreciation of what you're able

00:23:34.600 to do and what your what your real fight is every day you know and and uh it's it's kind of

00:23:40.240 humbling experience too because you know you we take so much for granted with with our lives and

00:23:45.720 with you know physical fitness in general these guys are training because they want to you know

00:23:49.500 they they want to be the Floyd Mayweather the guy like that that's famous and on tv and this world

00:23:54.700 champion boxer and they come in and see these guys that have none of that aspiration they're 80 years

00:23:58.820 old and they're training as hard as what these guys are training literally i mean they train hard

00:24:03.680 and they're training as hard as you're training with no aspirations that they're training to live

00:24:09.100 they're training to get better you know they're training if they're not here they're going to die

00:24:12.180 it's not a it's not about glory or putting uh you know the cool facebook picture up uh being a

00:24:17.800 fighter this is this is life or death for them and so you know it changes the perspective a little

00:24:23.020 bit with with these guys and at least the ones that i've had i mean maybe there's some people

00:24:27.280 that wouldn't but most of those people that don't get that i probably wouldn't be working with

00:24:31.200 anyway so right walk us through a workout for your Parkinson's patients what does that look like

00:24:37.720 uh it's an hour-long workout same as our other fitness classes they'll come in and we have a

00:24:42.300 warm-up exercises that we do they're pretty standardized warm-up for their symptoms so

00:24:48.020 we'll come in and uh just some you know big arm swings neck swings loosen their neck like i said

00:24:54.060 there's a lot of rigidity so we're trying to loosen them up at their hips loosen up their legs we have 0.98

00:24:58.300 exercises that are challenging their balance so we'll have different exercises we do that we rock

00:25:02.840 walk walk rock them up on their toes tracing their hands with their eyes as they pull them above their

00:25:07.880 head they kind of challenge their balance and things like that so we warm them up for about 10 or 15

00:25:11.880 minutes with with those kind of specific exercises for their symptoms and then the rest of the pro the

00:25:17.080 program for the bulk of it's just like we're doing our boxers so they're doing the heavy bag speed bag

00:25:21.600 double end bag and mitt work when we have our boxers come down and and do that with them and everybody

00:25:26.140 likes the mitts the best i mean people love hitting the mitts that's that's really what they get excited

00:25:30.420 about but we do three three minute rounds on the speed bag three three minute rounds on the double

00:25:34.600 end bag three three minute rounds on the heavy bag and you know hands up chin down elbows in making

00:25:39.240 them you know turn their feet and hips and uh and then in between the rounds we keep them working too

00:25:44.460 when i first started the program we couldn't most of our guys weren't in that shape but when they come

00:25:48.800 now they're they're usually in pretty good shape so even in between the rounds then we have a an

00:25:52.780 exercise like a you know active rest exercise that they're doing that's usually balance related so

00:25:58.440 they're doing forward steps or backward steps or something with their arms above their head or

00:26:02.740 in between the rounds and then at the end it's it's a cool down stretching so we'll have them line up on

00:26:07.440 the wall and do mostly static stretches at the end before they leave all right so i got tired just

00:26:13.600 listening yeah it's a workout right yeah well you mentioned we're talking earlier about some of the

00:26:17.880 research you're about to do on how boxing can help parkinson's patients one of the aspects you're

00:26:22.740 looking at is how it affects the families the caregivers of these patients i know you haven't done any

00:26:27.440 studies on this but sort of just working with your clients you have now what's the change you've seen

00:26:31.820 there how has it changed their family's life now that they got none of their boxing one of the biggest

00:26:37.100 things that hits them the earliest is they get to come a lot of them will drive their spouses here 0.99

00:26:42.560 bring their spouses and and drop them off or they'll wait for them so you'll see you know three or four 0.69

00:26:47.260 of the the spouses or five of them and they're waiting and so they get to have that discussion time it

00:26:52.340 becomes like a a therapy group for them because they can you know are you having trouble with this

00:26:57.580 or what's your experience with this medication or they're considering the deep brain stimulation how

00:27:01.900 what's the effect that that's had for you so they're getting to share this information and getting to talk

00:27:05.420 and have that outlet amongst themselves as well while they're waiting and so it really becomes a

00:27:10.840 really good group of support a support group for the those people as well and a lot of it's just

00:27:17.200 the activities you know at home and outside the house i one of the one of the biggest changes that

00:27:23.040 i've seen anybody i had a guy in the program named bill and he was on a walker and he waited you know

00:27:29.700 super late into his disease to come in and that's another key thing too if when you get diagnosed you

00:27:36.140 have to get started i mean you've the people that's waited are the ones that i i had the least amount of

00:27:41.580 effect with when i've started them early i don't hardly see any changes like bobby's rolled back some

00:27:46.860 changes but i don't see any i haven't seen any degeneration in him and the every group of guys

00:27:51.820 that i got that started early like that over the last three years they're like still the same

00:27:55.500 and if you can keep it still the same with parkinson's then you're winning the battle

00:27:59.500 but billy came in and he was on a walker and i had to have one of my boxers come down every day and

00:28:03.800 hold him up while he hit the speed bag if you let him go he'd just fall forward and fall over

00:28:07.100 and i actually i did do 12 sessions of personals with him and kind of getting caught up with the class

00:28:11.860 and then we had said that we got him where he could stand up on his own and he wasn't falling

00:28:15.740 forward anymore and we got him going through the exercises and within a year into the program he's

00:28:21.260 he's walking in like fist bumping everybody he doesn't have a walker he doesn't have a cane

00:28:25.120 and so his wife was so happy about it because they had grandkids that play baseball and he couldn't go

00:28:31.360 to their baseball games well he's gone to their baseball games now he's getting out of the house

00:28:34.600 now and i actually had one of the local doctors that was taking care of him call me and i didn't

00:28:39.060 know who his doctor was he was just his primary care physician and so i got a call from him he's like

00:28:44.160 you're taking care of bill that was my one of my patients i'm like yeah and he's like well you know

00:28:49.960 i just wanted to call you personally and tell you that i couldn't believe it he walked into my office

00:28:54.300 yesterday and he said to be honest with you i i told them to consider a nursing home care a year ago

00:28:59.540 he said i couldn't believe it so he's like whatever you're doing you know made a believer out of me so

00:29:03.640 anything that we can do for you you know let me know so that was really you know that was made me feel

00:29:08.400 really good that you know that that they're recognizing it like that in the medical community and

00:29:12.700 so we've had we've got a group of doctors five or six doctors here that i'll refer people over to us

00:29:17.000 now and it's that's really you know helped a lot you know getting the the physicians take that hey

00:29:23.260 this is really a program that's successful and so bill is one of the biggest life-changing stories

00:29:28.980 that i've that i've seen since i've been in it and it was one of the biggest life-changing stories for

00:29:33.520 his spouse because it affected their life so much as far as just getting him out of the house i mean

00:29:38.220 he didn't want to do anything he wouldn't do anything he's like he's one of those guys like i said

00:29:41.620 that was scared he's a big guy and he was scared if he fell down somewhere he wasn't gonna be able

00:29:45.540 to get back up and that's another thing too we we get them down on the ground on their all the way 0.76

00:29:50.440 on their back and we make them learn how to get up because we want to give them the confidence that

00:29:55.340 there's a technique that you can use to get up off the floor and we want everybody to be able to get

00:29:59.020 up on their own and if once you find out you can get up on your own then you're not so scared to

00:30:03.840 leave the house anymore but if you think you're going to fall in the grocery store and you can't get up

00:30:07.960 you're not going to go you know so if they at least have the confidence to know that they can

00:30:11.900 get up if they do fall they'll do a lot more in their life yeah that cascading effect like you're

00:30:16.380 not just working on the you know helping the patient with their life but like you can see it cascade to

00:30:21.540 other aspects of their life it affects their wife and like now their grandkids has a relationship with

00:30:25.900 their grandfather they probably wouldn't have had because grandpa never left the house yeah it's i mean

00:30:31.380 it doesn't just it doesn't just debilitate the patient i mean it wreaks havoc on the on the whole

00:30:36.460 family i mean and especially some of the people that i see in the program that have that are early

00:30:41.640 onset i mean it's it's of course it's bad at any age but when you get it at such a young age and you

00:30:46.900 know you've got to suffer through that and your your kids are younger and you've got these life plans

00:30:50.760 that where you're you're not you haven't even retired from work yet i mean now you got to lose

00:30:54.460 your job and then you get these guys that come in it's like you know i had i worked in aviation all my

00:30:58.620 life and i had to give up my job i couldn't do it anymore so and one of the one of the the local

00:31:04.100 doctors here that helped me kind of pioneer this program when i first got started and seeing what

00:31:09.020 i was done and it's a big part of our research dr eric sherburne you know that he was like they

00:31:13.840 thought he had actually had parkinson's disease it turned out to be central tremor but either way

00:31:19.320 about it he was a neurosurgeon had to give that career up and so when i first got the program started

00:31:25.500 he was he was here in house and he's he came and said you know i see what you're doing with this just

00:31:29.860 let me know if there's anything that i can do to help and i said well i'd heard that you had

00:31:33.160 parkinson's disease because they're at that time he said no i said but i didn't know if he was

00:31:36.140 approachable with it yet and he's like well you know i really wasn't but i see what's going on so

00:31:40.540 i need to you know get over that and get involved and he started getting involved with our program

00:31:45.160 and he's he's really the one that pushed us to get this research study going so so besides parkinson's

00:31:50.860 are there any other movement disorders that you found that boxing helps with i've got a one of

00:31:57.100 the guys in the program doesn't actually have parkinson's he just has he's been having

00:32:00.080 suffering a lot of balance related issues and they couldn't figure out exactly why so he's been

00:32:03.620 coming and training with them it's really helped him a lot and then i've got a guy that i work with

00:32:07.740 one-on-one that has a warnecke syndrome which is a neurological it's more almost resembles a stroke

00:32:14.140 but it's from a vitamin b1 deficiency so he had an injury when he was younger that came back

00:32:19.560 affecting later on he ended up in the hospital and on a feeding tube and based on not getting fed enough

00:32:24.420 food on a feeding tube then but he got that deficiency which affected the brain so he has

00:32:29.760 a lot of balance issues and he's really made a lot of improvements when he first came in i don't think

00:32:35.000 his improvements if i was just guessing i mean i don't know i don't think a lot of his improvements

00:32:38.640 are probably neurological but i think he's just by training and working out i think he's strengthened

00:32:44.900 himself to the point that he's able to compensate for a lot of the balance issues that he had so we

00:32:50.900 definitely think it's going to work and i we've been working on a cognitive boxing program that's

00:32:54.400 based on numbers and letters and signs and stuff that i think is going to benefit some of the other

00:32:58.200 diseases even more specifically i've went over once and worked with osu with their annual stroke patient

00:33:03.900 thing so we worked with about 40 of their stroke patients and i really think it's going to have some

00:33:08.020 benefits in in that areas as well and we have plans to to roll the ready to fight name out in

00:33:13.220 different programs we just started a youth boxing program that we're piloting with tulsa public schools

00:33:17.660 under the ready to fight logo and then we're going to do the next one probably that's going to be a

00:33:22.640 post-cardiac rehab i'm a cardiac nurse by trade and don that i hired after he retired from the

00:33:28.320 hospital he actually oriented me oriented me in as a nurse and then he retired and i hired him to come

00:33:32.860 and work for me at the parkinson's gym his backgrounds in cardiac so we think we could really use this boxing

00:33:38.600 to you know keep people interested it's it's using boxing as an interesting modality to exercise i mean

00:33:44.300 that's all it is and we think we can use that for almost any kind of disease process as well as we

00:33:48.880 can get people in the gym and keep them interested right it's better than just walking on a treadmill

00:33:52.800 exactly i mean it's it's just so hard to motivate yourself to go do that but if you find something

00:33:57.040 that's fun and that you like you're going to go do it so the most of the people we have here are

00:34:01.420 looking forward to coming to the gym you know i'm not i'm not trying to build a business or a gym off

00:34:06.000 of you know having a bunch of members that i bill every month and they don't ever come to the gym you

00:34:10.680 know if i want my clients in the gym you know i want them here working out and and we're not a you

00:34:16.520 know we're just not into and like i said we're into lifestyle building we're not into just trying

00:34:21.900 to get as many gym dues as we can right so uh you mentioned you're talking about the future of this

00:34:26.740 program so you're going to start helping cardiac patients how do you see this expanding with the

00:34:30.920 parkinson's patients are you expanding it across the state are you hoping to take this national what

00:34:35.380 are the goals there we want to take it national there's other another national program out there

00:34:40.080 that's a really good program at its core but the way it's been distributed out and the way it's been

00:34:46.160 done hasn't been followed that close from from my regard as a nurse to do research and stuff off of

00:34:52.200 so my concern was is that hey i think boxing's the superior program over all exercise for parkinson's

00:34:58.560 but if we keep having people out there that are not teaching it to the core of boxing strictly enough

00:35:05.600 then i think they're going to lose that and it'll probably still be beneficial because they're

00:35:09.180 exercising but i think if somebody were to do research on that they're going to determine that

00:35:13.320 it's just equal to cycling and i just you're worried that the other like some boxing programs

00:35:18.560 that come out that treat parkinson's they're watering down boxing which will help which will

00:35:22.160 be to a detriment to the patient i think so okay you know these people only have so much time that

00:35:27.020 they can do they have all these other doctor's appointments they have handwriting classes speech

00:35:30.020 therapy classes and so i want to make sure that my patients are spending if they're spending an hour a

00:35:35.260 day exercising i want them to make sure that they're doing the best exercise available and if

00:35:40.060 it came out to be something else then so be it but right now i believe it's boxing and i think most

00:35:44.500 people in the health care field that i'm working with believe that it's boxing and so you know i want to

00:35:50.100 create a program that's for sure going to make sure that we can do research not just in my gym but

00:35:55.560 across the country and on a large spectrum and prove that boxing really is the best way you can spend

00:36:00.640 your hour of time exercising and so that that was really my goal is want to roll it out nationally now

00:36:05.560 i'm behind the ball you know so there's already a national program out there so we come up with

00:36:10.340 ours and you get blended into well what's the difference boxing's boxing and parkinson's disease

00:36:15.420 is parkinson's disease and you know that's as far as they look so

00:36:18.160 actually we just this week finally and i had our contract signed with usa boxing who we're

00:36:25.680 an affiliate gym of we all of our amateur boxing program runs there in the usa boxing it's governed

00:36:31.120 by the usoc the united states Olympic committee so it's already a national program of course one of

00:36:35.340 the largest boxing it is the largest boxing program in the country and so we just partner

00:36:40.040 with those guys to be their official boxing program for usa boxing i go to columbus ohio this

00:36:45.420 week to to talk to the coaches there and then hopefully in december we're going to start training

00:36:49.340 coaches so with teaming up with those is going to instantly take us to be a national program and i'm

00:36:55.340 looking to hopefully roll out two to three hundred affiliates over the next three years that's all

00:36:59.260 so what what can people do who are listening now i'm sure there's someone listening there's got to

00:37:02.680 be we've got a lot of listeners who they might have parkinson's or they have someone who has

00:37:06.200 parkinson's but they're not in tulsa oklahoma they're not in edmond oklahoma what's their best

00:37:11.220 bet i mean they just go walk to a gym say hey i got parkinson's and i just want a regular workout

00:37:15.400 i mean what yeah i would still go i mean if i was those guys i would definitely i would i would still

00:37:19.840 go get in the boxing program that's close to them i wouldn't matter i mean i'm gonna see i would sing

00:37:23.780 you to the competitor i mean go to the boxing gym and get and get working um and they could look up

00:37:28.920 you know just they can probably get with their local parkinson's foundation every state's going

00:37:32.980 to have some parkinson's group and so i would reach out to those guys and find out um you know where

00:37:37.820 those programs are and where they could get started because they don't need to wait i mean they need

00:37:40.820 to get started right don't be waiting on me they need to get started right away and then as this

00:37:44.440 program grows that those those foundations will be reaching out to and letting them know that we have

00:37:48.400 this specific program in their area now so that education will be coming as we expand but you know

00:37:53.680 that's going to be slow over the next couple years and if i mean to me if you find out you have

00:37:58.080 parkinson's disease i would i would i would get in a boxing program as as soon as possible so and

00:38:03.800 let's say people who are listening to this maybe they're boxers and they're like they want to help

00:38:07.460 with this anything they can do sure yeah they could i mean they could reach out to me and contact us

00:38:11.660 of course uh or contact usa boxing and that's going to get them to the same same result now so

00:38:17.340 and they want to become an affiliate of our program or teach our program then you know we

00:38:21.720 would love to look at them and have them now i can say we're not we're we're probably going to be a

00:38:25.900 little more selective in some of the other certifications out there our program is going

00:38:28.560 to be hard it's going to have a continuing education component of it that nobody else has

00:38:32.060 and so it's we're you know we're going to be picky about who we let run these programs because we want

00:38:38.080 them held to a high standard that's based off of the research that we're doing with our local program

00:38:43.780 here so you know we've turned in a specific set of exercises with specific movements that need to

00:38:48.640 be done for specific times and that's what we're researching and that's the model that i want to

00:38:53.100 push forward with all of these all of these affiliates but anybody that knows even if you don't know

00:38:57.700 anything about boxing that doesn't mean that we can't coach you and train you and teach you

00:39:01.540 to run our program to a high enough standard for our parkinson's disease they're not training people

00:39:06.360 for competition boxing we need people that's gonna that are you know if you're if you're a fitness

00:39:10.940 trainer or a personal trainer or somebody has exercise background that has some other knowledge

00:39:14.780 we can definitely make that work for sure so where can people go to learn more about ready to fight

00:39:19.180 uh you could go to uh ready to fight boxing.com and look at our website and find out more about it

00:39:25.000 you can look on the engine room boxing.com as well and and and find other information on there

00:39:30.300 awesome well aaron sloan thanks so much time it's been a pleasure thank you for having us appreciate

00:39:33.760 it my guest is aaron sloan he's the founder of ready to fight boxing it's a fitness program

00:39:39.080 designed specifically for parkinson's patients you can find more information about it at ready

00:39:42.780 to fight boxing.com also check out our show notes at aom.is ready to fight where you can find links

00:39:47.740 to resources where you can delve deeper into this topic well that wraps up another edition of the

00:39:58.760 aom podcast check out our website at artofmanliness.com where you can find our podcast archives as well as

00:40:03.320 thousands of articles or even over the years we got a whole series on boxing so if that interests you go

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00:40:38.500 you

The Art of Manliness - November 20, 2019

#562： How Boxing Can Fight Parkinson's Disease

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