#611： How a Weekly Marriage Meeting Can Strengthen Your Relationship
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode, Dr. Marsha Naomi Berger shares how she developed the idea of a marriage meeting and why couples can benefit from implementing this habit in their lives. Dr. Berger is a therapist and the author of Marriage Meetings: 30 Minutes a Week to the Relationship You've Always Wanted.
Transcript
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Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
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Several years ago, Kate and I implemented a practice that has helped strengthen our
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relationship. It's called a marriage meeting. We got the idea from my guest today. Her name
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is Marsha Naomi Berger. She's a therapist and the author of Marriage Meetings, 30 Minutes
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a Week to the Relationship You've Always Wanted. Marsha and I began our discussion with how
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she developed the idea of marriage meetings and why couples can benefit from implementing
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this habit. We then unpacked the four-part agenda of the marriage meeting, which includes
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showing appreciation, discussing household chores, planning for good times, and resolving big
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issues. Marsha explains why you need to do the steps in that particular order. She then
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addresses the possible objection to meeting with one's spouse in a more structured way
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and explains why the format of the marriage meeting is more effective than trying to discuss
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these things on the fly. She then provides tips and insights on how to execute each part
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of the marriage meeting, including the importance of being specific with your appreciation, following
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up on to-dos, and scheduling good times both as a couple and as individuals. Marsha then
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shares advice on what to do if you want to start the marriage meeting practice, but your
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spouse doesn't, how your meetings can take as little as 15 minutes, and how to best communicate
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during the meeting so that each partner will feel good about keeping up this game-changing
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habit. After the show's over, check out our show notes at awim.is slash marriage meeting,
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where you can find a link to an article that we wrote a couple years ago where it goes into
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detail about marriage meetings. awim.is slash marriage meeting.
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All right. Marsha Naomi Berger, welcome to the show.
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So you are a therapist and the author of the book, Marriage Meetings for Lasting Love,
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30 Minutes a Week to the Relationship You've Always Wanted. And as I was talking to you before
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we started, I discovered this book, my wife and I discovered this book a couple years ago
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on Amazon, and we've been implementing the ideas in this book, having a weekly marriage meeting.
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So I wanted to talk about this because it's been a powerful tool in our marriage.
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So start off, where did you come up with this idea of a marriage meeting? Is it something you
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started doing with your own marriage first or working with your clients?
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Well, the way we first learned about having marriage meetings, my husband and myself,
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was when we first got married, I was already an experienced couple therapist, and I worked with
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individuals, couples and families. And I was the go-to expert in agencies where I worked. People
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who wanted to have training in how to work with couples and families would come to me,
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and I would give them the tools and techniques. I learned when I got married that it's a lot
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different to be an objective expert than it is to be actually inside of a marriage. And we were
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getting along pretty well, but I knew there was room to grow. And we ended up pretty soon,
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heard about a class that we took for couples. It was called Time for a Better Marriage.
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And it was a wonderful class. We picked up a lot of ideas. There was one idea in the class
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that only a couple of minutes was spent on, and that was the idea to have a weekly marriage meeting.
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And that was the one thing that we took from it and we continued to implement. We were both
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comfortable with trying out the idea. And over time, we started refining it and coming up with more
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like guidelines and just filling it out to make it as effective as possible. And then I started
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teaching it to people in workshops and in individual therapy where I could coach people
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through the meetings and eventually started writing the articles. My idea was to spread it around as
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wide as possible so that as many couples as possible could benefit.
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And what's powerful about this, it can help good marriages become better,
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but it can also help marriages that are struggling to become better as well.
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Yes. And there is a big difference between a marriage that's struggling and a marriage that's
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already good. Couples who have a fairly healthy relationship to begin with can on their own,
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read the book, learn the techniques, and have successful marriage meetings because their
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communication is already respectful. But in the other kind of marriage,
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maybe, maybe not, they'll be able to do this on their own. If they're not able to do it on their
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own, then that's a good reason to go to therapy and refine your communication techniques and your
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general attitude because the idea should be we're in this together. We're not fighting with each other.
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What we're doing is really putting energy into making the best relationship we can create together as a team.
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So something you start off in your book talking about is how marriage and family life has changed
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in the modern times that actually makes a marriage meeting necessary. So what is it about modern life
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that makes a weekly marriage meeting where you sit down with your spouse and talk things over necessary?
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Yeah. Marriage has changed so much since, I would say, since the 1960s when roles were pretty clearly
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defined between men and women before then. Most women used to be housewives or homemakers and men were
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the ones, the husbands were the ones who brought in the income. All that has changed now. Women now
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are working and have a lot more opportunities to develop their professions or their careers.
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So people are looking for a more egalitarian relationship and they're looking for a relationship
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that's not based so much on practicality. Of course, we want that, but we're all looking,
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whether we know it or not, we're all looking for a relationship that's emotionally and spiritually
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fulfilling as well as satisfying in terms of physical and material needs.
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And what are some myths that people have about marriage that can make thinking that a marriage
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meeting wouldn't be useful or productive? A marriage meeting is wonderful to overcome the
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myth of mind reading that I shouldn't have to ask my spouse for what I want or need. I shouldn't have
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to tell them how I feel. For some reason, I think the reason is probably that we grew up with fairy tales
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that made it sound like we should have an effortless happily ever after once we're married. But the
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ceremony is really just the beginning of a lifelong experience of growing together as people and
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as couples. And the marriage meeting gives a structure for people to say what they want,
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how they feel, and also to remember to express appreciation for each other.
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It might be thought by many people, oh, my spouse knows that I love him or her, appreciate them.
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But the marriage meeting has a specific time to say just what you like, just what you value about
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each other. No, and I think too, and you talk about this in the book, I think people have this idea that
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if a marriage requires work, being intentional about it, then maybe you're not really in love.
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That's not true. I mean, if for a marriage to work, you actually have to put some effort and be
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That's true. And that touches on the myth that love is all you need. And we shouldn't have to
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invest energy in this. It should just all just flow happily ever after. And that's not real life.
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We're different people. And it would be kind of boring if we were the same. But learning to
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accept and actually treasure our differences is one of the wonderful things that happens in a good
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And also, too, you talk about, I mean, the idea of a marriage meeting, we'll talk about some of the
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things you do, it's going to bring up some conflict, because you're going to express
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different opinions about different aspects of the relationship. So some people think, well,
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conflict's bad. You don't want to have that. But you say, no, actually, conflict's good,
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because that's how you can find out what's actually a problem. And then you can do something about it
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That's right. And I think when people are thinking that conflict is bad, they're thinking of something
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that feels like a big fight. But conflict doesn't have to be a big fight. It can be a respectful
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discussion about different ideas you have about how things should go.
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All right. So let's talk about the marriage meeting and the structure of it. So big picture
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overview, before we get into the specific steps, what's involved with a marriage meeting?
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There are four parts of a marriage meeting, and they go in a logical order that I like to think of
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flowing like a roller coaster, where the first part, which is appreciation, that brings good energy
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into the conversation. Each partner takes an uninterrupted turn telling the other exactly
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what they valued, appreciated about the other during the past week. The second part is chores,
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or the business part of the meeting, where you coordinate whatever you need to that might have
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to have done. Like, let's say there's a leaky faucet, and either one of the spouses might decide to fix it,
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or they might decide who's going to call a plumber. But things get handled that are like routine
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activities of daily life that need somebody to take care of. The third part is planning for good times.
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And most people have probably heard of the idea of having a weekly date.
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The marriage meeting is a time to make sure that that happens, and that other self-nurturing
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activities also happen, because it's good to fill up our tank ourselves, and then we have more to
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give, and we become more attractive to our partners and to the world. The final part is called problems
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and challenges, and that is when a discussion happens where there may be some strong feelings about
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an issue, or maybe some kind of transition is happening, and how are we going to handle this?
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How are we going to prepare for whatever is going to come up next in our life?
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And as you said, you put this in a specific order. So, it starts off with appreciation,
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you have that good energy, then you go into the not-so-fun business part of the marriage,
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and then you go back up to good times where it feels good, and then you go into those challenges.
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You said it very well, Brett. That's a roller coaster.
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And we don't have to end up feeling like we're down, though, because challenges, when it's handled
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well, you have a nice sense of completion and resolution. Maybe you don't finish everything,
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but you know you've made a good start, and you can continue the discussion the following week at
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your next marriage meeting. And I do encourage people to thank each other for meeting at the end,
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and shake hands, hug, whatever makes you feel good.
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So, before we get into these specific, I want to dig deep into these different parts of it and how it
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looks. But before we do that, I think someone who's hearing this for the first time, I know when
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I first read about the concept of a structured marriage meeting, it's like, wow, that seems
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kind of artificial. And I'll think, well, I can just do those things on the fly. Why don't you
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think that works, and you need to actually set it aside for a marriage meeting and follow a structure?
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Oh, there are a couple of reasons that it's better not to do it on the fly,
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or try to do it on the fly. The first reason is it's usually not possible to do it on the fly
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in a healthy way, because one of you may want to talk about some big issue or some little issue,
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and the other one is involved reading a book or watching TV or on a smartphone doing research,
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whatever. So, it may not happen if you're thinking it should happen on the fly. And if it does happen,
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maybe you're not doing it in a way that is as constructive as you can when you're both planning
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ahead and you're both in the mindset that you're going to have a constructive, respectful discussion.
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Got it. All right. So, let's talk about, dig deep into these different parts. Let's talk about
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expressing appreciation. So, what sorts of things are you expressing appreciation in this part of the
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meeting? Well, you can express appreciation for things that are as small as, thank you for coming
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to this meeting with me. I really appreciate that you're willing to put a little time into
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keeping our relationship great. It can be a bigger thing, like, I'm really grateful to you for having
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listened to me so well and been so understanding when, on Thursday night, I was telling you about
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this big challenge, this big issue that I was having at work with my boss.
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So, it sounds like you need to get pretty specific. You can't just be like,
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thanks for being you. That's not going to work.
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Yes. Specificity makes a big difference for people. You know it when you've experienced it. I can see it
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with my clients. I've seen it at people in workshops. I remember one of the guys, when I encouraged his
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wife to change a global statement, I can't remember what it was, but let's say she said to him,
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I appreciate how handsome you are. And that was okay. That's nice. However, when she changed it
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to, I appreciate how handsome you look right now, wearing that blue shirt that matches the blue of
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No, that's what happened. He said, I don't know why. The husband said, I don't know why, but it really
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makes a difference when she's specific. And something that can be challenging with
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expressing appreciation for people who've been married for a while is like, you probably take
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your relationship with your partner, your spouse for granted. And so, you're not really paying
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attention to those things. So, starting off trying to do this, it can be a challenge for folks because
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they haven't done it before. That's true. Yeah. I would say practice makes perfect.
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And for some people, it is harder than it is for other people. Some people come from a background
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where they never saw their parents expressing appreciation to each other. It's just not part
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of their repertoire. So, it can help for them to say, okay, I know I didn't see it, but I can be
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But one of the nice things about having a marriage meeting and knowing that you're going to spend
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that first part of it, maybe two, three, four minutes expressing appreciation, is it makes you aware,
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like, pay attention throughout the week of stuff to express appreciation for? Because you know,
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That is a good point. Yes. Yes. That's a good point. It becomes a habit. When you think ahead
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about what you're going to say during the marriage meeting, or when you do it spontaneously during
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your meeting, saying the things that you appreciate about your spouse, your mindset becomes more
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appreciative just about all the time. I mean, you notice during the week what you like,
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and you start commenting. I think it is really wonderful if people can do at least one appreciation
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every day. It's not only for the marriage meeting. It's for a lifetime.
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And would you recommend people writing stuff down if they need to?
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For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes people would write it down ahead of time. Other times,
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spontaneous. It's whatever really works for the people. It's very good to write it down ahead
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if you're somebody who's going to be saying, hmm, let's see, and not coming right out spontaneously
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with the appreciative comments. But if you think about it ahead of time, then your spouse is going
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to be happy that you're able to say right away, not have to cogitate for a while about what you
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liked about the person. No. And as you said, whenever my wife and I start doing this, it always feels
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great when we give each other compliments and show appreciation. But I can see it being challenging
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for some folks receiving the appreciation because that's not something we get very often. So it can
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be kind of awkward. What do you do? Do you just say, thank you? Is that all you got to do or is it
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something else you want to do? Oh, yeah. That is another skill that people need to learn if they're
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not used to receiving appreciation or if they come from a culture where either you're saying that you
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appreciate something is just not done. And if somebody appreciates you, you might feel like
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you're bragging if you accept a compliment. So again, being aware of that and deciding that it's
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really worth changing how I deal with appreciation will make a big difference.
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All right. So that's appreciation. And like I said, I always feel great when we do this part.
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And it sets the mood and the vibe for the rest of the meeting, which carries into talking about
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chores. This is the business part of the family. Something you make a point is that people forget
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a marriage, a household is like an economic unit. There's a business that needs to be run like that.
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You got chores you got to do, bills that need to be paid. So what does this part of the meeting look
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like? Well, as you said, Brett, these are the kind of things you can talk about in chores. Who's going
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to pay the bills if you don't already have a routine for that? A lot of chores, after people are
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married for a while, they know who's going to do this and who's going to do that. But if you want
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to have something different, one of the things that I did was I realized that I was cooking meals
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every night for my husband and son, for my family. And I thought I would like to have a night off.
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So I suggested during the chores part of the meeting that we have a cook's night off
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and somebody else cooks that night. So that's a change. And it could be when repairs are needed in
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the household. If there is some kind of financial matter, how are we going to get the money to pay
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for this? Or do we want to do something different investing? Do we want to hire? Oh, this comes up
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actually with some of my clients. The kind of arguments that people have about chores or frustration
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the chores aren't getting done. Should we hire a cleaning person or should we figure out a
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different way to do this? We're going to take a quick break for your word from our sponsors.
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And now back to the show. And I imagine it'd be useful when you're first starting a marriage
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meeting that each individual person in the marriage prepares individually, like kind of list out the
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things they have to do and list out things that they think need to get done so that you can talk
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about it at this portion of the meeting. Yeah, that's a good planning ahead.
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And yeah, for my wife and I, we mostly use this time to talk about stuff we got to get done around
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the house. What needs fixing, what we got to do in the garden, the yard, whatever. And also it sounds
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like this would be a good time to talk about money. Like money is one of those things that causes a lot
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of stress in a marriage because people don't talk about it. So is this would be the time to talk
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about money in a marriage? If the money is causing a lot of stress, then the time to talk about money
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would be during problems and challenges. But if it's a routine money matter, like just announcing
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that the property tax is due and let's transfer some money from here to there, then it's fine to
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do it in the chores part of the meeting. So how do you follow up on chores once they're assigned?
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That can be a problem in a marriage. Yes, because often people think that they have an agreement
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when they don't have a real agreement. So you can create a chores agreement by having a timeline
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for when the chore is going to be completed. So if it's going to be done, say, before next week
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or before a week from today, then it gets reported on in the next marriage meeting that it's been
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finished. If it's been agreed on, but it hasn't been done, then a report is given. A report sounds
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like a fancy word, but it's really follow up. Okay, I was going to do this, but this got in the
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way. So I'll do it by such and such a date. So you can renegotiate the timeline, but you don't have to
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sit around fretting about why wasn't this done because you're keeping up to date with each other.
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This is also a good time if you have kids talk about all the stuff that kids have going on. So
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practices, games, school activities, make sure everyone's on the same page there.
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Yeah. My wife and I spend a lot of time doing that, trying to get up to date. Well, not even
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right now with the pandemic, the kids are home, but when they were going to school, that was a very
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useful part of this meeting. Okay. And the key here too is to do this in a way where you're not being
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confrontational, you're being objective, you're trying to ride those good feelings you built up with
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the appreciation part. So you're not snipping at each other about who's doing more, who's doing
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less. That's right. Any snipping goes into part four. Okay. Problems and challenges. All right. So
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yeah, something does come up. Okay. We're going to table that. We'll come back to that in part four.
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Right. We'll postpone it to problems and challenges. All right. So, but before you get to problems and
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challenges, there's step three, which is planning for good times. So what are the type of things we're
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planning here? Weekly date, activities that you do individually, times you want to get together
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with family members or friends. It's basically about recharging of batteries as a couple and also
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as individuals. No, you go into detail about the importance of having a date night and this is the
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time you would plan that. Right. And some people confuse date night with marriage meeting. And I say,
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you know, you want to have your date night, just a nice time. Like when you're recording,
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when you're first going out and you are kind of daydreaming out loud as much as you want to,
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just enjoying whatever you're doing in each other's company. And that's totally separate,
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different time from when you have your marriage meeting.
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Oh, so don't try. So if you're going out to eat, don't try to have
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your marriage meeting during your dinner date for your date night.
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Correct. Okay. And then this is also the time you're planning vacations activities to do with
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your... Yes. Yes. That's a good point. Yeah. Vacations. And ideally you get to take some
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vacations, just the two of you. And then there are the family vacations. And for some people,
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vacations as an individual, if they have different interests.
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I thought this is like the whole, the idea that you need to sort of plan for good times for
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individuals. This has been very useful with my wife and I, because yeah, when you get married,
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you kind of forget that part of your life, but that's what makes you interesting to your spouse.
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Right. Yeah. Maybe that's another myth of the togetherness has to be happening all the time.
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Yeah. So, I mean, something my wife and I do is like, hey, what do you got going on this week
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That's what it is. And so, and sometimes, I mean, sometimes I don't have anything because,
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you know, nothing's going on, but I'd say, hey, this week I'd like to do this with my friends.
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And she's like, okay, great. And then she has her thing, which is great about this because I think
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there's a lot of, I've seen a lot of conflict in marriages where, you know, a wife gets resentful
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that the husband's out doing something with his buds or the husband's getting resentful with the
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wife's out. And it's probably because none of them, they never communicated what they planned on doing.
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And are they making sure to have time for a weekly date for just the two of them to nurture
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Right. So, yeah, I think this can be another powerful tool to strengthen your marriage. And again,
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it's fun. It's fun to talk about doing fun stuff together individually and as a family.
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Yes. When you do these things for yourself, you are filling, it's like filling up your tank
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with positive energy. And then you're bringing it into your relationship because you're a happy
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All right. So, you've planned for good times, moving into the problems and challenges where
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we've talked about a lot of things get pushed into there. So, like, what are, so these are,
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are these big problems and challenges that we're discussing here?
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They can be little ones and they can be big ones.
00:23:39.660
Okay. So, what's an example of like a little problems and challenges?
00:23:42.300
A little one would be, and I do encourage people when they're starting to have marriage meetings,
00:23:49.180
start with little ones if you're doing the meetings on your own because your goal is to
00:23:53.300
have a successful meeting and feel really good about the process so that you'll want to have
00:23:59.560
another meeting next week and so on until you get used to the process. Because as you mentioned
00:24:05.360
earlier, Brett, it does feel awkward at first to be communicating within this kind of a structure
00:24:12.100
rather than just free flowing or on the fly. So, your question about a little challenge you might
00:24:19.460
start with is one partner says to the other, I'm really struggling trying to lose weight. It would
00:24:26.860
help me out if you would be willing to hide the potato chips or whatever junk food you might want
00:24:31.500
to bring into the house or put it somewhere where I don't see it. Would you be willing, would you
00:24:36.980
be willing to do that? I'd really appreciate it.
00:24:41.180
I think that's interesting. So, you're not only just stating the problem that you're having, but you're
00:24:50.260
All right. And what would be an example of a bigger challenge that you would eventually work
00:24:54.980
Well, the major ones are money for a lot of people, sex, parenting differences,
00:25:03.520
and relationships with in-laws or other family members.
00:25:08.580
Okay. And I mean, I imagine you're not going to be able to solve those big ones in a single
00:25:15.120
Right. But the important thing is to learn how to feel okay communicating about them,
00:25:21.080
talking to each other about them in a fairly relaxed kind of atmosphere and using good
00:25:31.380
And so, speaking, what are some skills that people need to do to be able to do this part
00:25:38.240
These are good skills for other parts of a marriage meeting also, especially I statements,
00:25:43.660
like when you're expressing appreciation or when you're bringing up a challenge, you could
00:25:49.400
say, I appreciate rather than you look good in this. You know what I mean? That's a you
00:25:56.280
statement. And when you're bringing up a challenge, you say, I am concerned about, or I'd like to
00:26:03.700
talk about, or I'd like to improve how I'm getting along with so-and-so. Or I'm talking about like,
00:26:12.560
I made it easy about the potato chips, the I statement. I'm trying to lose weight
00:26:16.800
when we get into the heavier challenges. It's still I statements. And another skill is active
00:26:22.420
listening. I have three chapters in my book about exactly how to use seven different positive
00:26:29.480
communication skills. So, I statements are one. Active listening is another one where you really
00:26:35.280
let the other person say what they have to say without interrupting. And then reflect back what
00:26:41.540
you've heard. Check it out. Did I get it right? And it goes forth from there with the end result that
00:26:49.540
both people have a chance to be the listener and the speaker. And both people feel like their position
00:26:56.200
is understood. And what most people really want more than winning or being right is to feel understood by
00:27:04.600
their partner. So, active listening is really, really important. And it's not as easy to do
00:27:09.820
as it sounds if we're used to being in a position of wanting to defend our position rather than
00:27:18.940
say it, but here are the other persons also. Another skill is using your nonverbal communication
00:27:28.480
effectively. Because believe it or not, only 7% of what's heard in relationship type conversations
00:27:36.700
consists of the words that are said. Only 7% of our total communication is the words. The rest is
00:27:45.860
body language. Crossing arms, making good eye contact, smiling.
00:27:52.300
That can make a big difference. So, I mean, if you're on your smartphone while your wife is telling
00:27:56.660
her her issue, that's probably not going to, that's not good.
00:27:59.320
Right. We want to put all those devices away during the marriage meeting.
00:28:03.540
Well, yeah. Speaking of, like something my wife and I do with our marriage meeting is
00:28:07.560
when we start the appreciation, devices go away, computers, smartphones. And then when
00:28:12.320
the chores section comes, we bring them back out because that's where we have our calendaring
00:28:17.220
tools. And so, we'll have there, talk about, we have like a to-do list that we share and
00:28:21.120
here's what we're going to do. And then for the plan for good times, still the devices are
00:28:24.760
out so that we can plan for those good times, calendar it. But then once we get to problems
00:28:28.060
and challenges, devices go away and we're back to just talking and focusing on each
00:28:33.900
Right. That makes a lot of sense the way you're doing it. Yeah. And that is a guideline for
00:28:38.440
the meetings to have a system where you do record what you agree to do, whether it's a
00:28:45.340
chore or a date, where you're going to go, when you're going to go, when something will
00:28:49.800
get done. Because it's so easy to forget to do things if there's no reminder.
00:28:55.080
And so, going back to the problems and challenges, I think the powerful thing here is that you're
00:29:00.380
probably not going to resolve these issues in a single meeting, but you got it out there
00:29:05.540
and people will probably feel understood. And that can go a long way into resolving the
00:29:13.420
Exactly. Because what most problems boil down to are that somebody doesn't feel valued or
00:29:21.780
appreciated. And when they feel understood and listened to, it just changes the whole
00:29:28.140
Changes the tenor. And as you said, with the problems and challenges, even though you were
00:29:31.600
going to have some conflict there, but you can resolve it or handle it in a productive
00:29:35.980
way. You don't want to end on a negative note. You want to end on a positive note with this
00:29:39.860
part. Say, hey, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. And then end the meeting
00:29:45.760
So, we talked about, I think, a good overview of the meeting, what's involved. How long should
00:29:53.440
The very maximum should be 45 minutes. Sometimes people, when they first start having the meetings,
00:29:59.560
they have this whole backlog of issues that they want to talk about. And it's not productive
00:30:05.080
when people get tired. That was something that my husband and I discovered when we first
00:30:09.580
started the meeting, not just to limit the time. We were pretty good at that. But we would
00:30:15.920
have the meeting sometimes really late at night, and we'd get tired and cranky and not very
00:30:20.680
constructive. So, my husband actually came up with the idea that we should have the meeting
00:30:25.060
early enough that we're both alert and feeling positive. So, that's another guideline is to
00:30:31.880
make sure that when you have the meeting, you're feeling alert, you're not tired, and you're
00:30:36.000
sober, and really bringing your best self to the meeting.
00:30:38.900
All right. So, no more than 45 minutes. Yeah. Our meetings last like 15 to 20 minutes,
00:30:44.860
usually sometimes longer if we're planning a vacation or dealing with something like
00:30:48.320
got a lot of chores. But yeah, no more than 30 minutes.
00:30:51.640
Yeah. Usually, no more than 30 is true for us also. And I think that's for most people,
00:30:58.040
once you get used to the structure of the meeting and you are prepared for what you're going to
00:31:02.640
talk about, ours are also often are 15 to 20 minutes.
00:31:07.560
But in order to keep them 15 to 20 minutes, in order for these things to be effective,
00:31:15.340
I think so. Some people don't do them weekly and they're still happy. But I think for most people,
00:31:21.120
weekly is good. It's easy for things to build up. And if misunderstandings are allowed to continue,
00:31:26.280
then grudges can build. So, it's just wonderful to clear it up every week.
00:31:30.540
All right. So, let's say someone's listening to this and they're like, I want to do this
00:31:34.340
with my spouse. So, they present the idea. Because I've heard this happening. The guy reads the book,
00:31:41.760
I want to do this. But then their wife's like, that sounds dumb. It's like, what do you do if
00:31:45.480
one person in the marriage doesn't want to take part in this?
00:31:47.720
The first thing to do is to recognize why the person doesn't want to do it, what's getting in
00:31:54.260
the way. And often what's getting in the way is that the person is afraid that he or she is going
00:31:59.940
to get a long list of demands to do this and that and do it differently. Or they're afraid they're going
00:32:06.840
to be criticized. It'll be just a blame thing. And why should they subject themselves to that?
00:32:12.720
So, it's important to assure the person that this is not what happens in the meeting,
00:32:18.180
that it's to be constructive and it's a time that both of them will get to feel valued and appreciated
00:32:26.860
and they will get to clear up any misunderstandings that happen and that the marriage meetings actually
00:32:34.980
promote more intimacy and better teamwork and respectful resolution of the kind of challenges
00:32:43.660
that come up in any relationship. So, that's one thing. Another thing is to try for just one
00:32:51.900
meeting. Don't say, let's start doing this for the rest of our lives every week because that could
00:32:56.280
sound pretty overwhelming if somebody's afraid in the first place. So, how about let's just try one
00:33:01.140
meeting, okay? And if the person agrees, be sure to load up on appreciation in that first meeting and
00:33:08.120
remember the challenge should be an easy one that the person will be happy to help with and do plan
00:33:14.880
a date. And again, make the chores simple too. There shouldn't be a lot of chores in one meeting.
00:33:21.440
No, maybe two, three, but not a whole long to-do list because think about what really needs to be done
00:33:28.360
in the next week. And for the challenges, also one challenge, maybe two at the most. And again,
00:33:36.960
really, really important to make it easy and learn how to use the constructive communication skills,
00:33:46.280
And I mean, have you seen any like the gender dynamics here? Do you see like wives really
00:33:51.120
appreciating this? Like when a husband like, hey, I want to do this. I feel like it's oftentimes
00:33:54.720
wives feel like they're dragging their husbands to get stuff done or do this type of things.
00:33:59.100
Does it really mean a lot to a wife when their husband's like, hey, I want to do this thing to
00:34:04.120
Oh, I think it means a lot to the wives to have their husbands want to do it. And it can mean a
00:34:09.580
lot to a husband to have a wife who wants to do it too. It is usually the husband that's dragging
00:34:14.200
feet a little bit at the beginning, but sometimes it's the wife, especially if she's not comfortable
00:34:19.880
talking about her feelings or she's kind of passive about saying what she wants. So it turns
00:34:27.940
out that both people will benefit. Husbands are especially appreciative marriage meetings in
00:34:34.160
general because the husbands tend to hear a lot from their wives and they may not feel comfortable
00:34:42.580
entering the discussion with as much enthusiasm and as many words as the wife. But the marriage
00:34:51.000
meeting level is the playing field. And I encourage whoever is the less verbal person in the relationship
00:34:58.460
to take the lead in the meetings, to announce each part of the meeting and to speak first about what
00:35:04.200
they want to talk about in each part of the meeting, because that gives that person a share of
00:35:08.480
ownership. And men really tend to like the structure of the meeting once they get into it, because it
00:35:16.020
does give them a voice that they might have felt was lacking before. I like that. Well, Marcia, this
00:35:24.200
has been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?
00:35:28.220
They can learn more about my work on my website, which is marriage meetings with an S on the end,
00:35:34.900
marriage meetings dot com. And if they want to get my book, it's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble,
00:35:43.000
and it may be in a local bookstore. It's in a lot of libraries. And oh, and it comes in an audio
00:35:49.320
version. Now, I just recently had an audio book made of my book so people can listen while they're
00:35:57.120
commuting or doing things at home. If they're not so interested or if they don't have the time to read,
00:36:03.860
they can listen. Fantastic. Well, Marcia Naomi Berger, thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure.
00:36:08.580
It's been my pleasure, too. Thank you very much, Brett.
00:36:11.680
My guest today was Marcia Naomi Berger. She's the author of the book Marriage Meetings for Lasting
00:36:15.180
Love. It's available on Amazon.com and bookstores everywhere. You can find out more information about
00:36:18.720
her work at our website, MarciaNaomiBerger.com. Also, check out our show notes at
00:36:22.440
aom.is slash marriage meetings, where you can find links to resources where you delve deeper in this topic.
00:36:33.860
Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM Podcast. Check out our website at
00:36:37.380
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00:36:40.580
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00:37:01.280
we get something out of it. As always, thank you for the continued support. Until next time,
00:37:04.280
this is Brett McKay, reminding you not only to listen to the AOM Podcast, but put what you've