The Art of Manliness - #622： How to Simplify Your Life and Get Off the Grid

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast many dream of

00:00:11.500 leaving the city and all of its tethers and obligations and creating a simpler more independent

00:00:15.340 life farther from the mainstream population and entirely off the grid but how do you go from that

00:00:20.160 daydream to making such a move a reality well my guest walks us through the process today his name

00:00:24.940 is Gary Collins he's made the leap himself and now lives off the grid in northeast Washington

00:00:29.440 he's also the author of several books on off the grid living as well as simplifying your life we

00:00:33.360 begin our conversation today with why Gary decided to leave his conventional urban nine-to-five

00:00:37.140 existence to find a freer lifestyle and how he defines being off the grid we then get into why

00:00:41.900 Gary thinks you should make the move to living off the grid in a series of steps the first of which

00:00:46.320 is to simplify your existing life in three main ways Gary then makes the case for why living in

00:00:50.820 an RV should be the next step in your journey before discussing the process of finding land

00:00:54.680 for your off-grid home and the factors to consider in picking a locale from there we get into how

00:00:59.060 those who live off the grid take care of things like water sewage power internet how they construct

00:01:03.500 the house itself and what to know about the startup costs involved and we enter a conversation with

00:01:07.520 the discussion of getting off the grid in a more metaphorical way by quitting social media why Gary

00:01:12.260 thinks you should pull the plug on these platforms even if you're an entrepreneur after the show's over

00:01:16.580 check out our show notes at awim.is slash off grid Gary joins you now via clearcast.io

00:01:21.480 all right Gary Collins welcome to the show hey thanks for having me on Brett appreciate it so you

00:01:35.900 have written a series of books about going off the grid in addition to you've written books about

00:01:40.960 simplifying your life and you're an expert in this stuff because you actually moved off the grid I

00:01:47.080 mean so tell us your story of why you decided to leave the city and how you started getting going

00:01:53.020 to moving off the grid yeah it's it's an interesting one because I mean I am unique I didn't realize it

00:02:01.420 at the time that I actually write about what I do instead of making it up as I go along and write you

00:02:07.140 nice little books that you want to hear I write the books that you need and some of it you may not want

00:02:14.320 to hear but you need to hear so that's and people write me and they tell me that they go you know

00:02:19.940 yeah you kind of you kind of hit me in the areas where I know I need to change so with me I grew up

00:02:28.580 very remotely I grew up poor in a trailer in the middle of nowhere and my town was like 1800 people

00:02:36.100 but I live 20 25 miles outside of that town in a town of less than 100 people so I grew up very

00:02:42.300 remote in the sticks and you know a lot of freedom group in the 70s as a kid and anyone who grew up in

00:02:47.900 the 70s know it was free range you know you didn't have pagers you didn't have anything cell phones

00:02:53.360 computers weren't even around yet there was no internet we had rotary phone we had a party line

00:02:58.800 is what we were on and that's not where I talked to hot chicks who talked dirty to me

00:03:03.220 it was you know Gertrude and everyone on our block was on the same phone line

00:03:07.620 because there just was no infrastructure and we were all poor so you'd pick up the phone and if

00:03:13.740 Gertrude was on talking you know you couldn't call anyone for like three hours that's how it worked

00:03:19.300 so you know when you're growing up you think that life sucks right you're all god my parents this is

00:03:25.380 brutal I bored out of my mind and as you get older you realize well and you move to the city you get

00:03:32.080 into you know go to college and all that good stuff and yeah I mean I went to college put myself

00:03:37.280 through college first kid to graduate from college in my family and just realized that at a point city

00:03:43.300 life was just sucking the life out of me and not that it was terrible but after a while you're like

00:03:49.940 there's got to be something else and I worked in the government you know I was military starting the

00:03:54.860 military ended up as a federal agent so I spent by time I left I'd had half my life in the federal

00:04:00.580 government and I just was unhappy is the best way to put it I'd done I'd done everyone that they told

00:04:08.300 me they were right the system told me this is what you do you work hard you go to college you get a

00:04:15.180 job you get up you're up to your eyeballs in debt you know maybe you get married have kids and grind

00:04:21.880 for the rest of your life until you poop in a diaper and call it a day and I was like this this is this is

00:04:27.500 bs this is not working at all I'm more miserable than I've ever been you know I've done everything

00:04:34.600 I've been successful and I just one day just said that's it bunch of circumstances happened

00:04:40.740 and I'm glad they did at the time they were pretty brutal I don't really talk about them but I left the

00:04:46.020 government on my own free will and just left and started over sold my house and the off-grid project

00:04:52.760 it was in the background but it wasn't quite off-grid yet I like the idea but it was more about

00:04:59.360 just going back to remote living growing up we pretty much lived very close to living off the grid

00:05:04.740 we just had power that's it we had power in this party line that was the only thing tying us to the

00:05:09.500 grid we had our own well we had our own septic you know there was no cable tv really back then it

00:05:15.160 came in the 80s I believe my friends had it you know in town so it was kind of getting back to that

00:05:21.980 lifestyle and as I left and started researching and looking at raw land the whole off the grid

00:05:28.140 concept started and not only that but I was in San Diego and during the uh you know the drought

00:05:34.560 and the and the brownouts and all that I kind of realized that the the system was using us because

00:05:42.180 during the the drought they told us we we mandatory had to drop our water consumption I want to say by 25

00:05:49.420 30 percent or it face massive hike bills and fines and I went okay so I cut we all cut our bills but we

00:05:57.840 did too good of a job everyone can serve too much water so they raised our bill I went oh that's how

00:06:05.280 this works so we do what you tell us to do but now you're losing revenue so now you raise our water bill

00:06:11.820 okay that makes sense so I you know what I mean I just gotten really burned out on the system and

00:06:18.800 being manipulated and having my pocket picked every time I turned around so that's where the off-grid

00:06:24.400 concept came from and that's kind of how it all began I mean I searched for quite a few years it took

00:06:30.840 me years to kind of figure out land and where I wanted to live in the country and you know what what type

00:06:36.320 of topography and what I was looking for that's kind of the down and dirty there was a lot more in

00:06:41.700 there but sure basically how it happened so I mean it sounds like you're you're you're driving impetus

00:06:45.960 you just wanted like the city city life was just grinding you down you didn't like you felt you

00:06:50.960 didn't feel free and you just wanted to get away from the rat race pretty much and and not only that

00:06:57.700 but it's hard to explain for people who have never grown up rurally and in small communities it's

00:07:03.640 just it's not that it's nirvana every place has its problems but the freedom you had you start to

00:07:10.600 remember all the freedom you had and you look look people in the face you know you go to your local

00:07:15.820 stores and you you buy things from people you know you know if anyone's going to get one over on you

00:07:21.240 and try and screw you well they just won't be in business very long you know I mean it's it's a

00:07:25.540 different type of living and people really are focused on living they're not focused on the

00:07:31.620 minutiae and all the noise and bs and you know drama and if they are you just don't talk to them

00:07:37.480 I mean that's it in the city it was it just seemed like that was really hard to avoid and not only that

00:07:45.120 but growing up that way I still have all my friends that I grew up with you know all my good close

00:07:49.520 friends we're we're great friends to this day we talk all the time and that's a difference too

00:07:54.900 instead of these fleeting relationships that I found in the city you realize that your lifelong

00:08:00.320 relationships are and they are they're what keep me grounded those relationships I know that my

00:08:05.920 friends I grew up with I can call them at any point in my life if things are going wrong and they're

00:08:10.260 there no questions asked they'll help me I help them we just got each other's back it's a different

00:08:16.980 it's a different deal I guess is the best way to put it so let's talk about going off grid and

00:08:21.920 what's involved in that but before that like how do you define off grid are there varying degrees of

00:08:26.920 off-gridness that you could achieve yeah absolutely and off-grid the way I define it is very basic it's

00:08:34.340 just not being tied to any public utilities but there's different variations of it because people

00:08:40.200 often confuse off-grid with homesteading homesteading and off-grid are different homesteading is where you

00:08:46.800 have a piece of land and you're self-sustaining and so you have animals you know you may crop you know

00:08:53.160 small small farming operation you know it's more that's a different you can homestead without being

00:09:00.140 off-grid or you can homestead and be off-grid or you can be off-grid and not homestead so they're a

00:09:06.720 little they're different in the variations of off-grid there's there's people that you know consider

00:09:11.620 off-grid I've gotten some goofy emails over the years and you know a guy said you don't live off-grid

00:09:17.100 because you have running water okay it's an interesting one and some people consider you

00:09:23.760 not off-grid if you have working plumbing and you're not pooping in a bucket or in an outhouse

00:09:28.260 it just depends that's a great part about living off-grid though is everyone does it differently

00:09:33.900 if you go to you know 100 people living off-grid no two will be doing it the same it's it's your

00:09:40.540 adventure and you pick your adventure you do it as much as you want or as little as you want and also

00:09:47.020 to resources this lifestyle is not cheap people think they watch those those cute little tv shows

00:09:53.300 and think you can just throw together 500 bucks and throw up you know a yurt and all's good it

00:09:59.560 really doesn't work that way tv makes it look a little more sexy than it is it's it's hard work

00:10:05.980 and it does take money all right so basic basic definition is if you're not tied to public utilities

00:10:11.340 yeah that's the easiest definition okay so let's talk about uh going someone who wants to go off

00:10:17.440 grid i mean that's a big decision takes a lot of planning takes a lot of money we'll talk about that

00:10:22.220 here in a bit and for a lot of people it's not something that they're going to do overnight this

00:10:26.960 might this is probably going to be something you want to build up into and one thing you do in your

00:10:31.680 books and your writing is that you know for those who are thinking about going off grid one of the

00:10:36.500 first steps you do or recommend is you encourage people just to begin by simplifying their current

00:10:41.280 life what does that look like for you yeah because i always say you don't want to be one of those people

00:10:47.160 who go from the city with a whole line of moving trucks to the country and basically take all your

00:10:53.160 crap with you that's not the lifestyle lifestyle is about simplification and that's where this whole

00:10:57.680 thing came from this came from organically at a point where i realized i'm not teaching

00:11:02.280 living off the grid and i was a health guy you know i was a ancestral health primal health guy

00:11:08.000 that's the business i had when i left the government and it just evolved that going off

00:11:12.760 the grid but i never intended to write that that came off an interview and people sent me a bazillion

00:11:17.660 emails asking me what the heck i was doing i hadn't even talked about it but yeah i always tell

00:11:23.040 people you have to simplify your life first if you take all your junk and all your garbage and all your

00:11:29.440 drama out to the sticks nothing changes you're going you're going to be miserable all you're going

00:11:36.980 to be is miserable in the middle of nowhere that's it so it's about really yeah simplifying decluttering

00:11:44.520 i talk about getting rid of you know unnecessary items and paring it down debt free and i have the

00:11:51.260 three-legged stool in the simple life that i teach optimal health you need to be the healthiest you

00:11:56.040 can possibly be your health is your responsibility being financially free by being debt free and also

00:12:03.400 finding your life purpose and it sounds incredibly simple but i always say too simple is not easy

00:12:08.940 living simply is a lot of work especially in the beginning because you have to turn everything upside

00:12:14.140 down you have to you have to refocus on the things that are important and that's the problem today we

00:12:20.380 focus on a lot of things that are not important they're just noise and it gets us off course of living

00:12:26.740 the life we want to live and i with that three-legged stool i always talk about it's about returning

00:12:32.380 freedom to you as an individual by allowing agencies and big corporations and the government to take

00:12:39.920 over those three things you have willingly given away your freedom and it's about taking that freedom

00:12:47.340 back that's about the simplification process so yeah the first step is basically decluttering

00:12:53.520 getting rid of the things you don't need getting down paring down your debt working on to be eventually

00:12:59.460 debt free and do it step by step so when you you know when you make the decision if you're going to

00:13:05.780 live off grid that it's all there you know what i mean if you go live off grid and you your eyeballs

00:13:10.860 up in debt your health is horrible and and you're floundering with your life it's not going to it's

00:13:18.600 not going to fix those problems automatically yeah it might make it worse it very well could make it

00:13:25.740 worse well and i've seen it i've seen marriages go completely south you know because they thought

00:13:30.760 they would fix everything and you know it'd be great and now you're now you're stuck in the same

00:13:35.620 house and same property with each other 24 7 it just enhances those issues that you had before

00:13:41.620 all right so simplifying your life getting i mean because that's part of when you're when you go off

00:13:45.760 grid you're gonna have to get used to dealing with less or being able to manage with less so might as

00:13:51.320 well sort of do training wheels before that while you're still connected to the grid but another thing

00:13:56.280 you recommend for folks to kind of get a taste of what it's like to go off grid is to try the rv

00:14:02.020 lifestyle is that something you did before you decided to go off grid i did i still live in my rv

00:14:08.480 to this day i spend uh the good nice months up in my off grid house i don't like cold weather i've had

00:14:15.700 many surgeries and getting old and i just don't like it i don't like cold weather so when it gets

00:14:22.000 cold and plus it's dangerous my property is i'd have to snowmobile in and out during the winter and

00:14:27.300 it just it wouldn't be fun and i knew that i knew that coming in that i had planned this was going to

00:14:33.140 be uh more of a summer you know i spend about seven months up here i still spend a big part of the time

00:14:39.340 but yeah i lived the other part of the year in my rv to this day i started eight years ago living in my

00:14:46.360 rv and it's great because what you have to do what it does is it forces you to minimize it forces you to

00:14:53.260 declutter you cannot store very much stuff in an rv i don't care how big the rv is if you go get a

00:14:59.980 300 500 000 massive you know rv you're still going to be limited on space so that's what it teaches you

00:15:08.100 too and also you can dry camp which means you're not you're not tied to any utilities you're using

00:15:13.020 you're holding tanks you're holding water you're probably charging your batteries off a trickle cell

00:15:18.200 solar panel that's on the roof you know you don't have access to tv or anything so i always say you

00:15:24.120 know go out and dry camp try it out try an rv out and see what you think of it and it's kind of a way

00:15:30.020 to do a test run before you take a big step and it's a lot cheaper i mean rv living is is cheap i mean

00:15:38.540 really cheap if you do it right so like what kind of rvs do you recommend for you know how do you figure

00:15:44.800 out which rv is best for you because there's a whole bunch of different you can get like the big

00:15:47.420 cruiser things that you know taylor swift rides in or you can do other stuff it just depends and

00:15:54.140 that's why i always say it's it's pick your journey and that's why you should research it and i always

00:15:58.780 recommend renting rvs in the beginning and try them out you know go on a vacation in an area that

00:16:05.620 you're interested in living and rent an rv and live in it and get your feet wet start out i'm a big guy

00:16:12.740 i have i have a way i do everything in life plan organization execution if you follow that pattern

00:16:21.580 through life your success rate will be much much higher you know you come up to your plan

00:16:26.760 you organize your plan then you execute your plan step by step now i mean that's how i run my business

00:16:33.020 i run everything in my life it i always try and organize and have a plan and so do that and you know

00:16:38.460 don't go too far ahead of yourself because the off-grid world is littered with failure most people

00:16:44.720 who jump right into it fail so take the steps make sure it's for you it may not be for you you may be

00:16:50.340 a hybrid you may want a lot of people just like the rv living heck i like it and so it depends do you

00:16:56.800 have a family how much space do you need you know the easiest thing for me especially in the beginning

00:17:02.740 well it depends but travel trailers they're easy because if you tow them around you know the the rv is

00:17:10.220 not your vehicle so you have your vehicle still but you need a bigger vehicle you need a truck and i'd

00:17:16.600 recommend a half ton or above i have a one ton diesel and you know you tow it around and you can play

00:17:23.480 with them they're they're cheaper than the other options of you know fifth wheel fifth wheels the bigger

00:17:29.060 kind of you call a fifth wheel goes in the bed of your truck so that's how it mounts that's where

00:17:36.980 the hitch is a travel trailer we call it a tow behind because it goes to the hitch on your bumper

00:17:42.900 to the rear of your vehicle very similar in design they tow completely differently you know and then

00:17:49.660 your rvs are more expensive for your class a b and c but all of it's dependent upon size and budget

00:17:56.840 and what you're looking for

00:17:59.060 it totally depends and that's i mean with this adventure i always tell people i can't hold your

00:18:06.020 hand you know i can give you the basic information but it's your life you have to choose what works

00:18:11.560 for you and that's i mean on the rv side though the easiest simplest way is a travel trailer if you're

00:18:18.720 going to buy you know right away or rent and rent one of the smaller you know like a class b or

00:18:25.980 something and test it out that's how i would how i would recommend doing it right so yeah it sounds

00:18:31.540 like testing out the off-grid lifestyle with an rv you get used you get to see what it's like to live

00:18:37.060 with reduced amenities what it's like to deal with you know having to think about your electricity

00:18:42.500 having to think about your waste how to you know how to think about your water because right if you're

00:18:47.580 in your house you never think about that stuff you just take it for granted rv makes you think about

00:18:51.820 those things and also it's a good test run you might find out like you said maybe rv living is

00:18:56.500 just for you maybe you get an rv and you decide well in the summer we're gone and we just do that

00:19:01.800 in the winter we come back to our house or whatever or vice versa it could be the other way

00:19:04.980 yeah and i have a lot of people follow me who do a multitude of this i mean it's crazy i get the emails

00:19:11.860 and you know i have people from straight rv living all year people who live off grid all year

00:19:17.500 homesteaders yeah it's a wide variety and that's the beautiful part about this lifestyle

00:19:23.100 you get to pick it you get to choose it it's your adventure all right so let's say you test out the rv

00:19:29.720 lifestyle and you decide okay i'm going to go further with this i actually want to buy a place

00:19:34.080 buy property and go off grid but again you're still not making the jump right away you actually

00:19:39.620 recommend folks okay there's a transition period if you own a house you recommend folks selling your home

00:19:45.020 and then renting an apartment or a house why is that again well it depends but for most people

00:19:51.720 in the city that's kind of the natural progression yeah or rent your house out i mean if you can make

00:19:57.400 money on your house and turn it into an investment that's a real good option too that's what i've done

00:20:02.160 for 20 years that was my side business is real estate so it's it's an easy transition too because

00:20:09.680 instead of going from zero to 60 selling your house and going straight off grid not having you know

00:20:14.180 not really having a place to live and job too you have to figure out how are you going to support

00:20:18.980 yourself that's getting easier today with all the chaos going on because now we're going hyper speed

00:20:24.020 into remote working but for some people they may still have to go to the office and and plan things

00:20:30.100 out so you you can transition into an apartment or rent a house and then take the next step and that's

00:20:36.880 what i mean if you take it slow everyone wants everything right now this lifestyle doesn't work

00:20:42.800 that way in any even when you get here it's not right now everything takes time you know everything

00:20:49.280 you do is a slower process living is a slower process it's great so just take that transition

00:20:56.000 and that way you're not leaping into anything and not buying something that's the biggest thing

00:21:01.240 is it gives you time to kind of solidify your plan without making a major financial commitment that you

00:21:08.180 may regret that's the biggest point so if you can sell your house rent downsize to also downsize don't

00:21:16.120 rent something the same size or bigger you need to rent something significantly smaller so you can

00:21:22.240 take that transition for the next leap and that's what i did i went from a 1700 square foot house to

00:21:28.720 a basically 475 square foot studio and that's what i did and it and then i moved into my rv

00:21:36.520 so there was these phases i went through where i downsized downsized simplified simplified and built

00:21:42.980 the business i have and then got everything going and then it was a lot less stressful that way don't

00:21:49.640 get me wrong it wasn't that it was easy but it took a lot of the stress out of it we're gonna take a

00:21:54.940 quick break for your words from our sponsors and now back to the show all right so we've been talking

00:22:01.720 about sort of the stuff leading up to going on we're still not even there yet like the next step so you

00:22:05.880 say you've done all this stuff you've yeah you've practiced with rv living you've you've sold your

00:22:10.220 home you're sort of downsizing the first step of going off grid like really going off grid is like

00:22:15.280 finding land where you're going to live off grid and that can be hard and i think a lot of people

00:22:20.260 they just want to like you said a lot of people just want to buy something right away you advocate

00:22:23.980 take it slow so when someone's looking at property what sort of factors should people look into when

00:22:30.300 they're deciding on property to build their off grid home well and the biggest thing is what most

00:22:35.820 people don't know in the beginning is what they're looking for right this is all new so i always

00:22:42.980 recommend take your vacations or travel to areas that you're interested in you know if you're interested

00:22:48.340 in living in the midwest somewhere off grid well go to the midwest check out the towns drive around

00:22:54.620 that's what i did i i've i was lucky in the government traveled all over all the time so i i can i kind of

00:23:00.640 already knew the area where i was looking at already but get get about five places and the easiest ways to

00:23:07.280 research it on zillow and just research land you just check the box that says land and you'll what it

00:23:13.860 will do is it'll give you an idea of what's available and how much it costs because you may want to live in

00:23:19.120 a certain area but you may not be able to afford that area so that will change your plan and wants

00:23:25.740 are great it's not about wants it's what you can afford and what works so i recommend that and just

00:23:32.700 take your time go to the areas and not only that the biggest part that i think a lot of people miss too

00:23:37.220 is you're you're moving into a community cities are different cities it's a it's a melting pot of a lot

00:23:45.240 of things well when you go remote you're in a small community and it already kind of has a personality

00:23:50.460 and they're not going to change their personality to fit you you need to blend into it and that's one

00:23:58.200 of the biggest problems i see people doing moving from the city to out especially out here where i'm

00:24:03.220 at there's a couple of towns that are just blowing up with people from california and other places

00:24:08.180 thank god i don't live there um but what they do is they bring in all their drama and bs

00:24:13.640 into these small towns and try and change everything to what they were leaving trust me

00:24:19.480 you will make enemies and put yourself in a bad light right away and not only that but there's

00:24:26.560 towns that you know you just it's just human nature there's places that you go to and you just don't fit

00:24:31.680 in that's just part of life so make sure that you fit in and that it you know that you get along with

00:24:37.720 the people you believe in the lifestyle you like you know you like the you know the downtown and all

00:24:43.560 that and if you need a medical facility if it's there around those are the things you have to look

00:24:48.760 at and and so that's what i mean you have to spend some time in it both in the town or area you're in

00:24:55.120 to make sure it's a good fit that's probably one of the most important points that i try to

00:24:59.860 to tell people is make sure it's a good fit because if you get there and it's not and i know

00:25:08.480 i've seen this happen too it's not a pleasant experience and you're remote so it's harder for

00:25:14.060 you to get out if you buy a property in most places it's not easy just to turn around and sell it right

00:25:19.840 away all right so yeah take your time with this don't rush into making a purchase what do you think

00:25:24.580 about lands of america is that a good place to check too yeah i gosh did i use them back in the

00:25:31.440 day i can't remember it's tricky and that's what i mean i used a couple services to look

00:25:40.460 they've gotten better because it's becoming more popular back when i was doing it it wasn't as

00:25:47.000 popular and there weren't a whole lot of land agencies but that's one of the bigger ones to get

00:25:51.040 a good idea and look and that's what they kind of you know that's what they they specialize in

00:25:55.920 so they're a good one but the the way i tell people it's good feet on the ground it's you got to go up

00:26:03.640 there and do it yourself because there's a lot of properties too that are for sale by owner or maybe

00:26:08.820 through the local real estate office that just aren't listed or that people know about you know

00:26:15.140 mine was mine was on on on realtor.com and everything but it was pretty hard to find

00:26:22.540 and who brought my attention to it was a local realtor i didn't see it in my research but he

00:26:29.920 knew about it and it'd been on you know it'd been listed for over a what two years year and a half

00:26:35.880 wow that's what i mean so the best way is the best deals and and some of the land that you won't find

00:26:43.460 are the good ones not to say you won't find it online because that's changed too i bought another

00:26:49.100 property that i'm going to build a house in another part of the country i found it through a realtor

00:26:54.220 online i mean i found it or wait no she found it so i knew the area and then she fine-tuned our search

00:27:01.260 because she was local in this area and i knew the area but not real well and so she was like oh yeah

00:27:08.040 yeah no problem and it took her you know she listed about 30 properties i went through all of them and i

00:27:12.940 found i've been doing this a long time i found it the next day i found my property the next day

00:27:18.200 and had it closed in like a week or has got it all set up but don't expect that i like said i've been

00:27:24.740 doing this a long time and real estate is still a side business that i do so yeah it sounds like the

00:27:30.640 big takeaway there instead of just i mean use online but like if you really want to find good land you

00:27:36.220 have to actually go to the place where you're thinking about living and just check things out start

00:27:40.900 talking to people and that's typically where you find the really good stuff yeah never buy land

00:27:45.860 sight unseen never i'm sure there's people who do that and they regret it they do actually it happens

00:27:51.760 a lot in off-grid and remote living a lot of people buy land sight unseen don't do it huge mistake

00:27:58.580 all right so let's say you found your property we got to think about like whenever you read like

00:28:03.500 survival books when you're you're not connected to the grid one of the first things they say you

00:28:07.180 got to look for water so what is how do you how do you take care of water when you're not connected

00:28:12.100 to the municipal water and and that's when you know going to the property and seeing for yourself

00:28:18.040 is that's where you're going to understand and water is the key i always say if you don't have

00:28:23.060 access to water you just bought a high high cost camping site is what you just did or you're gonna

00:28:28.980 have to haul water and people in the beginning and i've not seen this too oh i'll just haul water

00:28:34.300 and they've never hauled water before and i go you know how hard that is how are you going to haul

00:28:39.100 it in the winter you do realize it's going to freeze and they're like i never thought of that

00:28:44.440 hauling water is a pain i know people who do it it is a major major inconvenience it's not it wasn't

00:28:51.680 worth it to me i mean i grew up in places where people hauled water and i just it wasn't for me

00:28:57.300 but it's a well you have to have access you drill a well it's becoming a little trickier today the price

00:29:03.160 has gone up and some places are not allowing people to drill wells like there's a limit

00:29:08.040 so it's getting a little more difficult but yeah you're just going to drill well and the easiest

00:29:13.380 formulation for cost is it's roughly 50 to 60 dollars a linear foot per final so that's a pump

00:29:21.120 casing everything my well was 25 000 it was one of my most expensive things it's the first thing i did

00:29:28.240 though was drill for water the easiest way if you're in an area remote almost everyone around

00:29:35.360 you has wells so they what they do is they the well company will do a survey so they'll go they just pull

00:29:43.920 it up they have a database that they all have they pull it up and they'll see what where the wells are

00:29:48.580 and what the depths and that way you kind of have an idea i knew where i'm at i mean i'm above a lake

00:29:54.760 i'm surrounded by lakes and everyone around me you know has wells we know they're there i mean even

00:30:01.720 though they're far away we knew there's water here that wasn't the issue it's how deep is the water

00:30:07.280 how deep are we going to have to drill to get it i'm at the top of a mountain so if i was down below

00:30:12.560 my well would have probably cost me seven thousand dollars so that's what you have to look at too by me

00:30:18.420 wanting to be on the top of a mountain and have these great fantastic views i have that means my well

00:30:23.780 cost more because i have to drill further down but yeah you're just going to use a well but you can

00:30:28.900 also buy properties with water with a creek and and that's a great way to go too but creeks can dry

00:30:35.500 up that's the doubt but wells can too so but creeks you know and you can use hydropower on creeks as

00:30:42.240 well you know if you want to be on a lake as well i lived on a lake as i was building my house several

00:30:47.900 years ago and it we got our water from the lake with through a pump and a filter system

00:30:53.600 so there's you know you just have to make sure you have access to water all right so we talked about

00:30:58.920 water so another thing when you're off the grid you're not connected to sewers so what do you do

00:31:03.320 what do you do with human waste you got to manage that so what do you do with it you just dig a hole

00:31:07.720 you know um you can't in some areas you can still have an outhouse like alaska you know alaska you can

00:31:15.500 still have outhouses in certain parts of the country and a lot of parts outhouses are for

00:31:22.160 seasonal cabins and that's what i mean by code and i preach that to you need to build everything to

00:31:27.000 code do it it's a pain i know you get involved with bureaucracy and government but if you don't do

00:31:33.360 it that way you basically are selling land when you go to sell your property because your house is

00:31:38.820 unapproved it's not up to code more than likely and i get into that in the book but yeah again i grew

00:31:48.340 up with gravity fed septic been around forever it hasn't changed much so that's the most common and

00:31:55.180 what that is is that's a septic tank with a leach field so your solids go into the tank and then all

00:32:01.700 your liquids go out into a leach field that basically spreads it out it's all underground

00:32:06.660 and that dissipates and spreads out and then soaks into the earth real basic and gravity fed means

00:32:13.100 you have an angle of your your sewage pipe in your house and outside to the tank and it all feeds off

00:32:20.800 gravity that's how it works there's no that but if you don't have the ability to have gravity fed

00:32:26.080 you need a pump system which means you have to pump that sewage from from the house depending

00:32:34.280 where the line is and that gets more complicated and that's expensive that's a lot more expensive

00:32:39.400 but most people have gravity fed it's like i said it's what we used growing up it's what you do when

00:32:44.820 you live in the sticks and yeah it's not that difficult can you put them in yourself sure sure

00:32:50.480 yeah you can put them in yourself you need a bulldozer or a excavator though because you gotta dig a pretty

00:32:54.920 big hole but it's just a tank and pipe and goes out into a leach field it's pretty basic well so

00:33:02.460 we've taken care of water taking care of sewage power that's a big thing so how do you what do you

00:33:06.700 do about power when you're off when you're not using the grid for your power source yeah and you have

00:33:11.900 three three ways you can get well four technically you can use obviously the the most common and most

00:33:17.520 popular is solar you can use wind and you can use hydro hydro is if you have a running stream

00:33:24.020 you can use hydropower real easy setup and then the the fourth which is not as common is geothermal

00:33:31.500 geothermal you can do diy it yourself there's ways to do it but for most people it's probably a pretty

00:33:38.280 advanced you know step if you've never done it before and it has to you have to have proper land

00:33:43.680 conditions and all that but there are professional systems geothermal highly efficient highly efficient

00:33:50.020 problem is really expensive so and and it depends where your land is like i couldn't do geothermal up

00:33:57.180 here i live in slabs of decomposing granite and i you know i'm on granite right now so it wouldn't work

00:34:03.900 but most people use solar uh or a combination i'm getting ready to put my wind turbine finally i've been

00:34:10.640 meaning to put it in for three years now timing but i'm putting that in next month i just ordered it

00:34:15.860 but i use solar i have now i started with six panels i now have 12 panels uh multiple i've built

00:34:25.560 the stanchions and stuff but it runs my whole house no problem and batteries you need backup battery where

00:34:32.000 you store that energy because at night you don't have sunlight so no sunlight no power so you have to

00:34:38.960 store that in a battery bank and the battery technology has come a long way a really long way

00:34:45.860 yeah elon musk is helping out with that yeah and and the concept of solar all the technologies here

00:34:52.180 and that's the the part that i think people you know they they think it's a little more complicated

00:34:57.940 than it is but it's not i live in a normal house i have a washer dryer fridge i live my i have the same

00:35:04.720 stove in this house that i had my house in san diego it's the exact same stove i mean i live pretty

00:35:10.800 close i have hot water i have running water i have two full bathrooms if you walk in my house you

00:35:17.780 would not know it's off grid it it runs exactly like a normal house but the solar you know that's

00:35:24.920 the most common and the panels are really cheap now the price on panels have come down a lot

00:35:29.360 so yeah it's it's whatever you want whatever your desires are there's a system if you want to

00:35:36.720 have a jacuzzi and a pool and 4 000 square foot house with central heating and cooling you can do

00:35:44.740 it off grid it's going to cost you a lot but you can do it the systems are all there all the

00:35:49.480 technology is there all right so we're taking care of power so what about the house itself because i

00:35:54.340 think most people think if they're going to move off grid like you said they move into a yurt

00:35:57.640 or they're moving to a cabin or like a tiny house it doesn't have to be like that right

00:36:02.800 no you can do whatever you want that's a great part about it too the one thing you're probably

00:36:08.380 not going to do unless you live in a very you know neutral temperature zone where it's really nice

00:36:14.160 is build two by four stick frame you're probably not going to do that but i i my house is made out

00:36:20.440 of a product called baz wall which is a insulated concrete form and my walls are about 14 inches thick

00:36:27.460 so that's a green material that i use because i'm at the top of a mountain you know the winters are

00:36:34.560 really cold so i needed more insulation but you don't have to do that you can usually two by six

00:36:40.100 framing is what most people use most people do not use central heating and cooling because it's a big

00:36:46.500 tax on your your alternative energy system but people do i have an air conditioner it's just a

00:36:52.020 portable air conditioner because i only need it a little part of the year because of where i live

00:36:57.060 but yeah you can go from that to you can and teeny homes a little confusing as well there's two

00:37:03.660 different types of teeny homes the teeny home that we're reversed with is the one on a rolling chassis

00:37:09.980 right it looks like a trailer you pull it behind your car that's the one people are most familiar with

00:37:16.380 but the other definition of teeny home and in off-grid living and remote living is a house that's

00:37:22.500 500 square feet or smaller it's a normal house it's just small that's it it's built the same way

00:37:29.900 same materials for the most part but it's 500 square feet or smaller but materials wise i would

00:37:36.200 say the stand i mean people convert pole barns people i have a friend who was living in his shed

00:37:42.360 in a shed till he got married he built the shed insulated it put running water in it

00:37:47.420 there's i mean again everyone does it differently but it's going to depend where you live

00:37:54.320 you know if you live in an area that is extremely cold well you're going to have to have far better

00:38:00.760 insulation value so you're probably going to have a much thicker walls hay bale construction

00:38:05.700 you know there's still adobe houses i mean you sandbags you name it you can do it i'm going to say

00:38:15.180 those are not easy the ones i just talked about are very difficult to build people think they're

00:38:20.360 easy again because they watch tv shows i know many people who have built those houses they're hard

00:38:25.400 to build the easiest today is still stick frame you know your typical standard construction which you

00:38:32.180 can do it you can totally do it's not a big deal it's just your walls are thicker right that's it

00:38:37.160 so another thing you're you're living remotely you're off the grid but you have an online business

00:38:42.280 and you're talking to me via the internet yep so how's that happening yep yeah i get accused too

00:38:48.180 of not living off grid because i have internet well there's there's a couple different ways of

00:38:53.100 internet now and it's it's come a long way even though it's i thought it would be better still but

00:38:58.980 you know a lot of people remote use satellite internet a satellite is not a good way to run a

00:39:04.840 business but it's a good way to have internet access for email and all that because it still has data

00:39:10.180 limits i don't know of any that's unlimited yet i i got lucky i i got grandfathered into an unlimited

00:39:17.140 planned a couple years ago but i use wi-fi a hot spot i use a hot spot so it's through a company

00:39:24.600 cellular company i want to mention it because if people are listening in my area they could screw up

00:39:29.100 my internet bandwidth if they all buy it i hate to be that way but today it's already happening with

00:39:35.440 people working at home it's kind of crunching my bandwidth a little bit but yeah there's there's

00:39:42.200 that technology and then there's cellular or radio technology kind of a weird way to call it but they're

00:39:47.860 little satellites dishes which i'll be using in my other property and it points at a cell tower and it's

00:39:54.120 its own kind of internet access so there's numerous ways and i tell people that too the reason i picked this

00:40:01.000 property as well is i had my cell phone with me and the first thing i did once we got here is i pulled

00:40:05.940 my cell phone out to see if i had reception i'm lucky the cell tower is a long way away from me but

00:40:12.620 it's on another mountain line of sight so i can get my binoculars and i can see my cell tower it's it's

00:40:19.620 on another mountain but it's out there so this worked if i was down below in the valley there's there's

00:40:25.860 places where it's completely dead there's no cell phone reception at all so you have to look at that

00:40:31.740 too if you're going to run a business online you need to have uh you have to have access okay so

00:40:38.980 we've talked about some of the big things again like you don't for every person is going to be

00:40:42.760 different so you can you have to get you give basically sort of big picture advice and you go

00:40:46.580 into details on some things but for most of the stuff you're gonna have to like figure this out on your

00:40:50.140 own but let's talk about money because a lot of people think oh off-grid it's going to be

00:40:54.780 cheaper you just talked about your well cost you 25 grand like what are we talking about with

00:41:00.600 startup costs for going off grid oh gosh i hate doing this it depends you can take it any direction

00:41:07.520 one i know people have bought land financed it you know through a sell by owner and then they

00:41:14.480 financed it's a couple hundred bucks a month they drag a beat up you know their old trailer or they live

00:41:20.580 in their van from i've seen people build 4 000 square foot cabins it just depends what again

00:41:27.880 what your budget is but i always say this lifestyle costs money especially in the beginning if you don't

00:41:36.040 have your finances in order this is not going to work because people think automatically that off-grid

00:41:42.360 does it means cheap living well yeah if you're debt-free if you're not debt-free and you have a bunch

00:41:48.480 of bills those bills are not going away you know yeah you'll get rid of your your monthly you know

00:41:53.840 internet you know won't be as high cable maybe all that good stuff but you're still gonna have bills

00:41:59.780 i mean you know you still have to if you're going to use internet you still have to have a cell phone

00:42:04.480 if you're going to want to have a cell phone so i always recommend you know have a good savings coming

00:42:09.740 into this and that's what i did i spent five years basically work my butt off for six seven months

00:42:15.300 build for five six months run out of money repeat i did that for five years because there is at this

00:42:22.240 time there is no financing for off-grid houses and what do i mean by that you cannot go out and go to

00:42:29.000 a bank and get a standard construction or home loan for off-grid building i know a couple people who

00:42:37.460 have done it but they own ranches they have a viable fairly good size ranching business

00:42:43.800 already established on the property and the bank loaned them the money for their house which was

00:42:50.220 going to be off-grid though i only know of two instances of that in the country so cash you know

00:42:59.700 cash is king you're going to have to bring money to this adventure and i always recommend you buy your

00:43:05.960 land cash don't finance your land you know don't have that debt just in case something goes wrong

00:43:12.080 and you decide not to do it you don't have another payment thrown on top of it you know what i mean

00:43:18.160 and that sounds a little difficult and i've got some pushback on that but most of the people i know

00:43:23.320 we've all bought our land cash in the beginning and then you just you do it step by step you can live in

00:43:30.140 your rv that's what i did i lived in my rv and i just built my house as i went i could not get my rv up

00:43:36.160 here i thought i could i made a tactical error my roads are really brutal both sides of my property

00:43:43.480 so i could not get an rv up here if i could i was going to tear it up and i wouldn't be able to get

00:43:47.740 it back out so i lived in a park for like 300 bucks a month that was it and that's what a lot of people

00:43:53.780 do though they'll just buy an rv and they'll bring it on their property and they'll live in their rv

00:43:58.180 until as they build their house or a yurt i know people do yurts too all right so yeah this is a

00:44:05.000 process not it's not something you can just do it's one and done so okay let's besides talking

00:44:09.640 about off-grid living you also part of your business part of your what you're doing with

00:44:13.400 your work is try to encourage help people simplify their life in general yeah and one way that you've

00:44:18.760 done that or you know help people simplify their life you're you urge people or you you recommend

00:44:23.660 people get completely off social media why have you done that like what have you found the benefits

00:44:28.260 of getting off social media oh the social media can of worms here we go one of my

00:44:34.960 favorite things to talk about the easiest way when i when i was in the government social media was

00:44:42.220 fairly new and i told people the only time i used it was to find criminals or people i couldn't find

00:44:49.060 to interview that was the only because every moron was on social media even back then i couldn't find

00:44:54.660 a guy i would just go look on social media guy had hidden himself you know made sure he wasn't

00:44:59.200 getting mailed to any address jump on social media i could find the fool it's just stupidity

00:45:04.800 especially for criminals ah just dumb i i just you i always said we only caught the stupid ones

00:45:10.900 but social media to me is highly toxic and it's something that i tell people i go what's the

00:45:18.920 benefit how is it benefiting your life and every time i get a blank stare back and i go how much time

00:45:26.640 do you spend a day on it hours hours and it's wasting time and when you waste time like that you're

00:45:34.420 stealing from your own life because that's time you cannot get back and i look at that i i did a

00:45:40.780 podcast on wasting time and wasting other people's time and i call it a form of theft

00:45:44.860 because we only have so much time on this planet so every time someone wastes your time you waste

00:45:50.700 their time or you waste your own time you're basically stealing life that's what you're doing

00:45:55.340 and so for me i just look at social media and i and it's built that way and and plus i have a huge

00:46:03.840 problem of people who follow me know with the creators of social media they're not very good

00:46:08.860 people and i'm being nice by saying that they're sociopaths i mean their whole goal was never to create

00:46:16.060 a platform for you to communicate and exercise you know your first amendment rights they built these

00:46:23.040 platforms in order to in order to data mine you that's what social media's primary function is

00:46:31.620 data mining the more data points they have on you the more money they can make selling it it works for

00:46:38.460 their their why would you why would you create something completely for free have people invest

00:46:45.020 billions and billions of dollars in it to keep it free that's not a business model these guys always

00:46:52.240 knew because they all come from the tech world it was about data data that's what these are for

00:46:59.580 once you kind of realize that you're the product of social media and see i'm lucky by not using it i do

00:47:07.680 use twitter here and then i told you i've buddy sucked me back onto it but we have a group i spend very

00:47:13.000 little time maybe 15 20 minutes a month that you know it's just one of those things where i don't

00:47:20.300 get advertising like other people do i don't get spammed like other people do and they go how do you

00:47:24.660 do that i go i'm not on social media i go where do you think that information's going they're selling

00:47:29.800 it you are literally giving away your most sensitive data and intimate details for free and you're making

00:47:38.140 these idiots filthy filthy rich that's all social media is once you get to that point

00:47:44.980 it takes on a whole new meaning and i've i've actually gotten several several i mean i've lost

00:47:51.060 count of people off social media and they come back and talk to me and they go wow my life way better

00:47:58.900 i go exactly and we also know the algorithms on social media are devised to cause drama they're meant

00:48:05.660 to get people to battle each other and there's even bots and trolls and oh i can't prove it but i i'm

00:48:13.060 pretty confident that all these social media companies have little mills overseas that literally go on

00:48:20.300 and go in and cause drama getting people to react to things on purpose i don't know does that sound

00:48:27.040 healthy to you brad does that sound like something you should invest your wife in sounds like a recipe for

00:48:32.460 mental illness i mean so but like it is it's already been proven right yeah but we've had people on the

00:48:38.160 podcast before talking about the danger of social media you know like cal newport and you know he's a

00:48:43.120 big proponent of like not being on social media and this idea of deep work and then whenever we have

00:48:47.640 these podcasts people always go well i got an online business how am i supposed to promote my online

00:48:53.020 business if i'm not on social media and it seems like you're doing okay without being on social media

00:48:58.840 well i'm an overnight success that took a decade people look at me and

00:49:03.740 and that's why i write the simple life books i just put out 14 habits and i'm going to be doing

00:49:09.500 an entrepreneur book about and i i remember probably three four years ago i was talking to a marketing

00:49:14.760 friend of mine and i and he was questioning me and he is now getting off social media i said you watch

00:49:21.540 i go i'm going to prove that you can build a successful business without social media i'm going to prove it

00:49:28.100 is it easy nope is it a lot harder yep is it the right way to do it yep because you own your

00:49:35.720 customer and i don't mean own you but you own their information i tell people i go if you if you

00:49:43.140 come to me and my website and my business and my following that i've built well i'm not mining your

00:49:49.280 data you know i'm not sending you ads you come to me i've built this relationship and it's not built

00:49:57.260 on a proxy through social media i call it the place for lost souls and i have many friends who

00:50:02.980 literally built their entire business on social media who are getting their butt handed to them

00:50:08.040 right now because you don't own the information and a couple of them have gotten booted off for

00:50:14.020 running ads and if you don't own it you can't control it and that's why i got off youtube even and

00:50:21.600 people were like your youtube channel is doing pretty good i went you know what a i hated doing the

00:50:25.760 videos they're a pain to do and i'm not comfortable with with people being a voyeur into my life yeah

00:50:32.400 it's my choice whether i want to do it or not i'm choosing not to do it so i built my company basically

00:50:37.680 on doing interviews so i've been doing interviews since i first started on podcast radio and that's

00:50:45.020 what i've done i built it purely old school and then i you know i speak i do public you know live

00:50:50.980 speaking events and i built it the right way the slow way and i'm i teach that as well and i know

00:50:58.320 you talk about a real business doesn't happen overnight it takes a lot of time and you have

00:51:05.260 to build it and you don't even know if it's going to work for like five years you know you have no idea

00:51:10.920 it's hard but if you want the quick fix and you want to run on social media you're going to get a lot

00:51:16.100 of really bad customers is what you're going to get and you're going to get a lot of people who

00:51:20.680 complain that's what i've noticed they're just searching around i don't want someone to come find

00:51:25.400 the simple life or my going off the grid books who's in between searching you know watching you

00:51:30.680 looking at cat pictures and videos and you know posting what they ate for breakfast that's not the

00:51:36.080 person i want you know i want the person who really wants to change not just surfing and is bored

00:51:42.700 and comes across what i'm doing you know what i mean right no that idea that you know you you people

00:51:49.680 when they create a business that we're entirely relying on social media like i know some people

00:51:54.960 who like their whole audience is like you know or is on instagram or it's just facebook or it's just

00:51:59.420 twitter like i tell you don't own your business like facebook owns your business and like nicholas

00:52:04.760 carr he's a technology critic who wrote several books like one's the shallows he calls this uh you know

00:52:10.320 people who have businesses on other platforms that they don't own calls them digital sharecroppers

00:52:15.100 yep it's like you you think you own the thing but you don't like the the guy in charge can they can

00:52:20.840 kick you off and they're taking a big cut of the money you could be making so like don't try to avoid

00:52:26.640 that we've talked a lot about some of the big things you got to look at when you're you're going

00:52:30.580 off grid about simplifying your life where can people go to learn more about your work

00:52:34.640 yeah it's my website the simple life now.com don't go to the simple life you'll probably end

00:52:42.140 up at nicole ritchie and paris hilton's old website forgot about that oh yeah but my website

00:52:48.420 my podcast your better life and you know the best way to stay in touch is sign up for the simple life

00:52:54.660 insider circle you know that's how everyone i keep i like everyone we're we're a group i like it that way

00:53:01.200 you know small intimate but my website's the easiest way everything is everything is on there

00:53:06.620 fantastic well gary collins thanks for your time it's been a pleasure thanks a lot brad i appreciate

00:53:10.820 it my guest it was gary collins he's the author of several books on going off the grid there's going

00:53:15.840 off the grid living off the grid all available on amazon on his website he also has books on simple

00:53:20.460 living you also find out more information about his work at his website the simple life now.com

00:53:24.780 also check out our show notes at aom.is slash off grid we find links to resources

00:53:28.700 where you delve deeper into this topic well that wraps up another edition of the aom podcast

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The Art of Manliness - July 31, 2025

#622： How to Simplify Your Life and Get Off the Grid

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