#640： Weird and Wonderful Ways to Get Comfortable Being Uncomfortable
Episode Stats
Summary
Ben Aldridge is the author of How to Be Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable: 43 Weird and Wonderful Ways to Build a Strong, Resilient Mindset. In this episode, he talks about his experience with anxiety and panic attacks, and how he overcame them.
Transcript
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Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
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Now, when most people start a self-improvement journey, they typically create a bucket list.
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It's all the typically exciting and pleasurable things they hope to do before they die.
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My guest today started his own self-improvement journey very differently by creating an anti-bucket
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list consisting of things he didn't want to do and embarking on a year of adversity.
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His name is Ben Aldridge, and he's the author of How to Be Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable,
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43 Weird and Wonderful Ways to Build a Strong, Resilient Mindset.
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Ben and I began our conversation with how his struggle with debilitating panic attacks inspired
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him to study philosophical and psychological ideas on how to fight back against his anxiety,
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what he learned that can benefit anyone looking to be more resilient, and how he was particularly
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inspired by the stoic idea of intentionally practicing adversity to prepare yourself for
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We then talked about the project Ben set for himself by embarking on a year of mental, physical,
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and skill-based challenges designed to push him outside of his comfort zone, how he decided
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what kinds of challenges to do, and how doing hard things changed them.
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From there, we get into the specific challenges Ben completed, from taking cold showers to
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learning Japanese, and what they taught him about self-discipline, facing your fears, and
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And we end our conversation with the way he's continued to push himself after the year of
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challenges was through, even in the midst of a pandemic lockdown, including climbing Mount
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After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash getuncomfortable.
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It's a pleasure to be able to chat to you today.
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So you've published a book, How to Be Uncomfortable with Being Uncomfortable, 43 Weird and Wonderful
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And in this book, you highlight 43 different things that people can do to be uncomfortable
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and hopefully get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
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But the impetus behind this book is interesting because it's about your story, your history,
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When did you start noticing you have problems with anxiety and panic attacks?
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And then for those who haven't experienced a panic attack, what does it feel like?
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So all of this is off the back of that, as you said, that anxiety.
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And seemingly out of the blue, a couple of years ago, I was hit with severe and debilitating
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And I didn't know what was happening at the time.
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And there was just this underlying sense of fear all the time.
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And that's the thing that was so bizarre about it.
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So the whole journey has come off the back of this, learning to manage my anxiety and
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And so to figure out what was happening, you started doing some heavy bibliotherapy.
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So you started reading books, psychology books about cognitive behavioral therapy, about
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But in the beginning of the book, you talk about some of the big ideas that you took away
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from different modalities, philosophies, to help you deal with your anxiety.
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And surprisingly, one of the most helpful things for me wasn't particularly psychology,
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But what was the big idea from Stoic philosophy to help you start to get a handle on your anxiety?
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So yeah, Stoicism was a really key philosophy and set of ideas that just really helped me.
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And at the time, to deal with all of this, I went to the doctor who initially had diagnosed
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But for me, educating myself was the number one thing that I wanted to do.
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And that's, as you said, that's when I got into extensive reading on all these different
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And I started picking ideas from different places.
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But Stoicism was the one that really clicked with me.
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And I do write a lot about some of these other philosophies and concepts from Buddhism to
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cognitive behavioral therapy and mindset, growth mindset and fixed mindset.
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But Stoicism was the one that just really resonated with me and allowed me to kind of actively fight
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And the key concept that really got everything going was the idea of practicing adversity,
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which is so counterintuitive when you're in a kind of anxiety hole and you're in a very
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The idea is that by practicing adversity, you prepare for adversity.
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And the Stoics used to deliberately step outside of their comfort zones in order to build
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And they did this in so many different interesting ways.
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So they'd expose themselves to the cold, to the heat.
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They'd sleep on the floor without, like on hard surfaces.
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And there was one Stoic, Kato, who used to wear things to embarrass himself so that he
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I knew that you go to the gym to train your body, but I hadn't really considered where you
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And the Stoics were doing this thousands of years ago.
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And I started to create my own challenges based off the Stoics and then based on things
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that would push me out of my comfort zone in order to see if that would help me to deal
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with my anxiety and also to be able to put in place systems to face that anxiety and to
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So that's really what changed everything for me when I encountered this concept.
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And we're going to talk about some of the challenges that you did to help you with dealing with
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And a lot of them were inspired directly from the Stoics.
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And I think it's interesting that with the Stoics, I think they counterintuitive or just
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sort of intuitively figured out some aspects of cognitive behavioral therapy that we figured
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out millennia later after Stoicism came on the scene.
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And one thing that we've learned with treatments for anxiety is that exposure therapy is one
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Instead of hiding or running away from the thing that makes you uncomfortable or triggers
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the anxiety attack, what a lot of therapists recommend for people who deal with anxiety is exposing
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themselves to that thing so that they get habituated to it and they learn how to manage or the emotions
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and feelings that they get come up when they have that trigger.
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And I think that we don't even need to be anxious people to benefit from this system of fear
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And in my book, I talk a little bit about how I created these challenges.
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And one concept, which is very relevant to what we're talking about now is the idea of
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That's where you want to do these things before you die.
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You want to go to Vegas or maybe you want to go and, I don't know, sleep in the desert.
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There's loads of different things that you would want to do.
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The idea of the anti-bucket list is that there are things that you definitely don't want to
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And as adults, it's very easy for us to avoid them.
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And this is something that we can play with and we can create challenges and things around
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And the anti-bucket list is essentially a load of things that we don't want to do.
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And we can use that to test ourselves and to challenge ourselves.
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And this is something that the Stoics would absolutely agree with and something that they
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So the anti-bucket list is something that has helped me to create challenges that we'll
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So another philosophy that you found useful was Buddhism.
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And what's interesting about Buddhism, there's a lot of similarities between it and Stoicism.
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But what was the big idea from Buddhism that you took away that helped you not only create
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this year of adversity, these challenges you did, but also just help you manage your anxiety
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Yeah, so Buddhism is an amazing philosophical system for dealing with life.
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And I'm not a Buddhist, but I really like a lot of the concepts within Buddhism.
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And the one that really resonated with me was the concept of meditation and mindfulness.
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And I found that that's very helpful when facing fear and dealing with anxiety.
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The concept of trying to be more present and focusing on my breathing has been very helpful.
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And I've managed to test that out in lots of different settings.
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And the idea of impermanence as well within Buddhism, that everything changes.
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And whatever we're facing at the moment, it will change.
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It's the one guaranteed thing in life is that everything changes.
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So focusing on that concept and exploring that a little has been very helpful, actually,
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knowing that even if you're in a bad place, that things will change.
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And then finally, you looked at cognitive behavioral therapy.
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And we've had people on the podcast talk about cognitive behavioral therapy.
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But what's interesting about it is that it actually, with science and research, has confirmed
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some of these practices or ideas that the Stoics and Buddhists figured out thousands of years ago.
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But was there a particular idea from cognitive behavioral therapy that you found useful in
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Yeah, for the anxiety, just blasting my thoughts with logic.
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Whenever something comes up, and it's always that negative self-talk that can help to spiral
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when you're in an anxious situation and your mind can make things so much worse.
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So cognitive behavioral therapy is all about questioning those thoughts and really
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And that really helps if you question it enough, question those negative thoughts and that
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kind of internal dialogue that's not doing you any favors.
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And actually, you'll find that a lot of the time, it's not rooted in logic.
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And the more you do it, I think, the more automatic it becomes.
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So what's an example of that that you saw in your own life?
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I mean, what would be like a trigger that you'd have that would sort of spark an anxiety attack?
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And then what would you do with the cognitive behavioral therapy to challenge that feeling?
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Okay, so I think I'll give you an example of when I'm climbing.
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Okay, so I do a lot of climbing and mountaineering.
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So I get sweaty hands and it's having to deal with that.
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But it's constantly leaning into the logical side of the process.
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Like when I'm climbing at the gym and if I'm lead climbing and I'm quite high up,
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I have to really question this negative thought pattern in my mind,
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which is telling me that, oh, okay, this is a dangerous situation.
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I have to counter that and really lean into the logic that actually I know what I'm doing.
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I've spent a long time learning this craft and really leaning into the health and safety,
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I guess that side of it really focusing on that and countering that internal talk.
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And that's just an example of something that I guess that's an ongoing thing because I continue to climb.
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But using that logic in settings like that when I feel afraid, that's very helpful.
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You mentioned Vegas as people going on the bucket list.
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You actually talk about in the book, you had your big, big panic attack when you were in Vegas in the United States.
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And that's when it really kicked off everything in your whole research into anxiety and how to manage it.
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And then after this research, you decided, okay, I'm going to start from the Stoics, from the Buddhists,
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I'm going to do the things that make me uncomfortable so that I can get comfortable with those feelings of anxiety that I get.
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So you had this idea, I'm going to do this year of adversity.
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And like I said, I think a lot of this inspiration came from the Stoics who were doing all this stuff,
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sleeping on the floor, exposing themselves to the cold, wearing ridiculous clothes.
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So we're going to talk about some of the challenges in specific.
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But when you were crafting this year of adversity, how did you figure out what sorts of challenges you were going to do?
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How did you figure out what sorts of challenges to do?
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And how did you know that they were challenging enough or not challenging enough?
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What I wanted to do was push myself in different directions.
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So I knew that you can physically challenge yourself and that's going to do one thing.
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But there's also academic ways to challenge yourself, intellectual ways, mentally you can make yourself uncomfortable.
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So I had these categories and there are three categories in the book that I talk about, mental, physical and skill.
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And these are just the kind of broad categories that I would use to brainstorm different ideas and create potential challenges.
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And then it was about seeing what's realistic because some of them are massive.
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Some of the things that I ended up committing to are huge, like life-changing, really daily, like daily committing challenges that are very, very big.
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And I think it was important having that mix and punctuating my year and my life with challenges that ranged in commitment.
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Because if you bite off too many big challenges, it can be overwhelming and I don't think you'll be able to achieve.
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So it was important to have a mix and to explore the different kinds of things that naturally crop up when you have a more committing challenge.
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But also, there's a lot to be said for a very short five-minute challenge before you go to work or somewhere that you can insert a challenge into your day.
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I kind of like that, having a balance and playing around with it.
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So after you did this for a year, I mean, after you did this year of challenges, I mean, did you notice a big difference?
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Was it like night and day or was the improvement like more subtle?
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The improvement was, yeah, I guess it's been gradually the confidence like compounds over time.
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The more you do these, the more I did these challenges, the more confident I became.
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I stopped, like I started to understand how my mind was working and I gained control of myself.
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And I started, as soon as that happened, as soon as the panic attacks stopped, I knew that there was value in this concept.
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And it was, it's been quite an amazing process.
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And although in the book, I talk about a year of adversity because I did it, I did a year really to test out this concept.
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And there's lots of things and lots of challenges that I have in my life.
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And I've got a long list of things I want to do.
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So I would say that it's a lifestyle, but that's probably a bit pretentious.
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But it's something that I can, it's a continual thing.
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The year was like kicking it off, testing it out to see if it worked and if it would help with the anxiety.
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And when I saw that it did, it's become a permanent part of my life.
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Well, you said no more panic attacks, but you still deal with some anxiety.
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You mentioned the rock climbing, you get sort of fear of heights still.
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But it sounds like you're better able to handle those emotions, those intense emotions when they do crop up.
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And I wouldn't say that I'd never have a panic attack again in the future.
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But I think the key for this whole project has been learning how to deal with that.
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And I guess pushing myself in a relatively controlled environment has allowed me to test out all these different ideas from philosophy and psychology.
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And the ones that work and resonate with me, I keep them.
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And now I have a set of tools and tricks that I can use when things get challenging and life throws curveballs at you.
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And that's really been the key take home from it.
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And yes, obviously, I can still get anxious, but I've got systems and ideas in place to help me deal with that, which is a massive change from when I first started experiencing anxiety and panic attacks.
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And that's why I'm excited to be talking about this and sharing it and writing about it.
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We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.
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All right, so let's talk about some of these specific challenges, because this is a lot of fun.
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And the first one you start off the book with is inspired directly from the Stoics.
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Now, it doesn't talk about you didn't go out in the winter and just sort of roll around in the snow.
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What you did to Embrace the Cold is take cold showers.
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And how did this help you with your bigger goal of managing discomfort?
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Yeah, so the cold showers are great because it's now a daily ritual for me.
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And it's something that I wake up and it's one of the first things I do.
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And it's always it's dealing with that mental resistance.
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Don't want to get into the cold because your body there's that kind of there's an element of pain associated with the cold.
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So your brain is telling you that you shouldn't do it.
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And actually fighting back against that is is all about self-control.
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So that's really one of the key take homes from this particular challenge.
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And the after effects, you feel incredible from being in the cold and exposing yourself to the cold.
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That kind of endorphin boost that you get afterwards and just the element of discipline, being able to pay attention to your mind and force yourself to do something that your mind is telling you that this is a bad idea.
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That's quite, quite good to be able to play around with that because it's self-discipline that that's helping to cultivate.
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And so do you do the way a lot of people do cold showers?
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They'll start off warm and then kind of gradually take it down to cold so that it's sort of like the frog, you're boiling the frogs, but in reverse.
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So I imagine you recommend you start off cold and just jump right in.
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So I do a lot of wild swimming and in the UK, the sea's pretty cold.
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So if you're swimming in winter, then that's brutally cold.
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But lots of cold baths and then taking it further with ice baths.
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That was probably one of the most bizarre experiences I've had.
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And that was brutally cold in a frozen lake swimming.
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But it's an interesting thing to play around with.
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When you did the ice swimming, did you jump in a sauna afterwards?
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Yeah, I had to do that because it's just so, yeah, so cold.
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You know what's interesting about the cold showers?
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But even today, I mean, after years of doing this, it still is, you still get that sort of
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that clinch factor right before you get into the cold shower.
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Like for some reason, I still haven't gotten used to it.
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It's just like my body's like, no, this is not going to be comfortable.
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But then, as you said, after you do it, you start feeling better and you feel great after
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It's not a big challenge in the sense that it's not going to take up a lot of time.
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She's very open-minded, but this is the one thing that she's not interested in trying.
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And my theory is that if I talk about it enough whenever I do podcasts and interviews, if I
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keep going on about my mom not getting into the cold shower, hopefully that's going to
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So another challenge you did was you went on a 106-mile walk hike.
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So first off, what were you hoping to get out of this experience?
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And then talk about the logistics of how long did it take you?
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So this was exploring a different side of the challenge dynamic.
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And I guess that I just wanted to push myself physically.
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It's probably about 4,000 meters of ascent in total, which is pretty high.
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And every day was about a marathon, maybe longer than a marathon.
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And it took, I can't remember the exact amount of time it took, but most days were 10 to 12
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So it was, it's just the kind of relentless nature of it.
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The first day you're excited and it's, it's okay because it's, you know, day one, but day
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two, you wake up and your body is in bits and you know, you've got another three days
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And so it was just that fighting against that, that pain and also just pushing myself, developing
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And I think the thing with this challenge is I totally underestimated it because I'd run
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And that was one of the other things I'd never run a marathon before.
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So I got into running and I did my first marathon, which was huge.
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So I just assumed that walking, you know, walking for four days wouldn't be a problem, but actually
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I think, uh, I didn't have enough respect for that.
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And, uh, yeah, it was really, really difficult on the fourth day as well.
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And I really hurt my, my Achilles tendon afterwards.
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And, uh, it was a lot of, uh, sort of get on with it, get your head down, but it did.
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I think actually, when I look back on it, I think time has softened how difficult it
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I think we've talked about on the site, this, there's this thing that Teddy Roosevelt and
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then later JFK picked up as like this 50 mile March and we've had people do it.
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And it was one of the, yeah, they all say the same thing.
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I was like, Oh, it's just walking for 50 miles.
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But then by the end of it, like they're just destroyed for days.
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There's just like, they, yeah, like they said, they underestimated how hard it was going
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So it was a, it was a great challenge and a great way for me to push myself.
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And it was a pretty, pretty awesome experience.
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So let's talk about another challenge that we talked about physical challenges so far.
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One challenge you decided to do in a year is to learn a foreign language, but not just
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any foreign language, like, you know, Spanish or French or Portuguese.
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Those are kind of, they're, they're difficult, but not, they're pretty easy.
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So how were you able to successfully become fluent in Japanese in a year?
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So after a year of Japanese, I'm nowhere near being fluent, but I've learned so much
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I'm still not fluent, but it's something, it's an ongoing process.
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And the kind of level I'm at is, I guess you could say everyday conversation.
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I can speak, all my lessons are on Skype and they're an hour long and I don't use English.
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So there's enough for me to be able to communicate and understand a lot.
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And I went to Japan at the end of last year and my experience was completely different from
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And I set myself the challenge of not using Japanese, sorry, not using English when speaking
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And that was incredible because it just, it was the first time I've ever been able to
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communicate entirely in a second language when on holiday in a, in a country.
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And yeah, it's just been a constant, a constant leveler, I guess, because it's so brutally hard
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and it's so different from English, the grammatical construction and all of the kanji characters
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There's thousands that you have to learn and they've got multiple different pronunciations
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And it's a, it's a really complicated language.
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So it's, it's that kind of learning to have the right mindset when you're dealing with
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failure, because learning Japanese is just constantly failing.
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And that's not necessarily a bad thing for us to, to learn how to manage that and deal
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But it's been very rewarding to be able to, at least to be able to communicate in a second
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So this was kind of fighting back against that self-limiting belief and, and working
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So I had, I've had a lot of fun with this and it's been a really, yeah, really interesting
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So we, that's another idea that you took a lot from, or from psychology was this mindset
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Like we've had her on the podcast, talk about that, that idea of that there's two types
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And I think a tendency for a lot of people is to have that fixed mindset.
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I'll always think of Japanese and I'm just going to give up.
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But what Dweck has found is people with a growth mindset, it's like, well, I don't know
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Or that can allow people to do more than they think they were capable of doing.
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And her book and her work is incredible and it's had a real effect on me.
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And yeah, using that attitude when learning another language seems to be the, the best
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way to deal with all of the inevitable obstacles.
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I guess it's focusing on process over results and knowing that learning something like Japanese
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is a really committing challenge and something that's going to take a long time.
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But actually within that, there's so many lessons that we can take out of it.
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And it's taught me so much and it's given me a lot.
00:26:04.080
And yeah, I've, I've gained a lot of interesting, I've had a lot of interesting experiences as
00:26:13.080
I think the language learning is really a great way to explore that idea of fixed and growth
00:26:17.400
And I know that for a lot of people who are struggling with anxiety or even depression,
00:26:21.920
there's a tendency to get in that fixed mindset.
00:26:24.040
It's like, well, I'm a depressive, there's nothing I can do to change.
00:26:29.880
But no, the idea of cognitive behavioral therapy and mindset theory is that, okay, you might
00:26:33.480
not like completely cure yourself of depression or anxiety, but there's things you can do to,
00:26:39.280
And that can give you hope and can help you do those things that, that we know will, will
00:26:46.960
It's all about just being proactive, taking action.
00:26:53.620
Just being really, I guess, probably aggressive in the way that I've tried to deal with my
00:27:00.180
And I've just really tried to educate myself and, and step outside of my comfort zone and
00:27:05.500
apply all of the, the philosophies and concepts that I've encountered.
00:27:09.060
So another challenge is sleeping in a bivy bag.
00:27:13.280
Now for Americans might not be familiar with a bivy bag is.
00:27:16.740
I learned this, the idea of a bivy bag from another British person, Alistair Humphreys,
00:27:24.920
For those who aren't familiar with bivy bag, what is it?
00:27:27.360
And what did this experience of sleeping in a bivy bag teach you?
00:27:32.000
It's essentially a giant bin bag that goes on the outside of your sleeping bag.
00:27:36.080
So you don't need a tent when you're camping and it's a, it's, it's waterproof and you just
00:27:42.160
put it over your sleeping bag and then you can sleep on a mountain summit or by a river
00:27:49.560
And it's, it's enough of a protective shell to keep the elements at bay, but you're also
00:27:54.880
very conscious of the elements because you've got your head poking out and it's a very wild
00:27:59.220
back to basics experience, but it can be a lot of fun.
00:28:03.820
And I've certainly had some interesting experiences in a bivy bag.
00:28:10.840
It's very, in a way it's quite stoic because it's not that comfortable.
00:28:15.100
It's sleeping on the floor and you are exposed to the elements.
00:28:20.960
And, you know, if it's a lovely summer evening and you're in a beautiful place in the countryside,
00:28:28.540
But if you're in the middle of a thunderstorm and you're on a beach and, you know, it's,
00:28:33.280
it's all a bit crazy outside, then that is a pretty challenging experience.
00:28:37.440
So I've had both of those experiences and I think it's, it's good for us to, you know,
00:28:44.640
And I've enjoyed the connecting with nature and actually the kind of the difficulty of
00:28:53.080
I'll tell you, I'll never forget, uh, every single bivy that I've done.
00:28:59.740
It's just such a great way of, uh, getting outdoors and it's a really lightweight way
00:29:06.280
And so you said, okay, you mentioned sleeping on the floor because basically when you're
00:29:12.140
But another challenge you did was you just, instead of sleeping in your bed at home, you
00:29:16.180
decided I'm just going to sleep on the floor like the Stoics did.
00:29:19.960
What, what did you get out of that challenge and how did you think it helped you?
00:29:22.980
Well, that was, uh, that was a ridiculous challenge.
00:29:26.440
And I think the, the key with this whole project as well has been finding some things that have
00:29:32.060
Some things are more serious and, um, it's again, yeah, it's play.
00:29:37.500
And just exploring, but yeah, this one literally just lie next to the bed and try not to get
00:29:42.320
into the bed because the whole night it's going to be uncomfortable and it's just fighting
00:29:46.360
that, you know, every part of you wants to get up and get into bed.
00:29:50.320
And it's that dealing with that mental, that kind of mental resistance, isn't it?
00:29:54.380
It's that fighting back against it, trying to stay in control, self-discipline in a situation.
00:29:58.860
It's very easy for you to, to solve that problem.
00:30:02.320
And the temptation of having the bed right next to you means that it's very easy for you
00:30:10.220
So it's, it's really paying attention to what your mind does in these situations.
00:30:14.160
And that's been the key for everything, just paying attention to what I'm thinking and,
00:30:23.260
So the more you do it, the, you know, the more comfortable it becomes.
00:30:28.700
So public speaking is one of the most common fears that people have and induces anxiety,
00:30:33.460
even in people who don't have problems with anxiety.
00:30:42.940
So what did, what did you do to, to do public speaking?
00:30:46.900
So my dad is, uh, is, uh, was an actor and, uh, he's now a director and he works with businesses
00:30:55.940
And he's basically the perfect person to help coach me.
00:31:00.000
So he's been amazing in helping me to deal with that.
00:31:04.100
And I'll never forget the first piece of advice he ever gave me is hilarious.
00:31:08.500
He was like, when you're speaking to people, when you're up in front of an audience, and
00:31:13.480
this is coming from his experience, he's been on the West End stage in front of thousands
00:31:20.360
And, uh, so he knows about how to deal with that tension within your body.
00:31:24.200
So he said, and I honestly, when he first told me this, I didn't think he was being
00:31:27.240
serious, but he said, what you need to do is put all of your tension into your bum.
00:31:32.760
Um, so tight, yeah, tight in your buttocks, as hard as you can put all of your tension
00:31:40.340
And this frees up your, the top half of your body, it frees up your vocal cords, frees up
00:31:47.220
If you forcing it down into the bottom half, uh, this is going to help you with that dealing
00:31:55.860
And honestly, I thought he was saying, I thought he was joking, but actually it does work.
00:31:59.920
If you put, you force your tension into the lower half of your body, I found that from
00:32:04.520
when I've had to do certain things speaking wise, it's really helps because it does free
00:32:11.360
And then naturally after maybe 30 seconds to a minute, you do start to relax a little bit
00:32:18.480
When you're in the thrown into the, the headlights, you've got them on you and that's it, you
00:32:25.640
How did you, did you just like look forward to an opportunity to give a speech?
00:32:32.200
So for me, it was a work, it came up with work.
00:32:38.240
And then, and then naturally I've been doing it more now recently when the book has come
00:32:42.580
So I've had lots of, lots of workshops and lots of podcasts.
00:32:45.600
So I've been able to practice this, getting into that, that headspace and using it.
00:32:50.380
And I'm confident that it's a, it's going to be a skill and something that I'm going
00:32:56.440
So it's, yeah, it's been really interesting to explore.
00:32:59.240
And yeah, that, that tip has been particularly helpful.
00:33:02.500
And one way you can make this harder is do an open mic standup comedy.
00:33:08.260
Cause like you, you go up there and people are expecting you to be funny.
00:33:11.880
And if you're not funny, I mean like the, that, like the pressure there could just really
00:33:16.220
cause people just to flounder and dealing with the discomfort of telling a joke that
00:33:21.040
doesn't land and like being okay with that and moving on that can, uh, that can make this
00:33:33.600
So the, the stoic that I was talking about earlier, Cato, who used to wear deliberate, like
00:33:37.800
he deliberately would wear ridiculous clothes to feel shame.
00:33:43.180
You go and you deliberately bomb a, uh, a standup night and you just have to deal with
00:33:49.820
that feeling inside as your material doesn't work.
00:33:53.800
And I think that that's, that in itself could be quite an interesting experience.
00:33:58.900
So yeah, there's loads of ways to play around with, with making public speaking harder, but
00:34:08.280
So we mentioned earlier, this idea of the anti-bucket list, like doing the things you
00:34:13.780
don't want to do, like doing the things that you're most afraid of.
00:34:16.860
So it's like basically exposing yourself to your biggest fears.
00:34:21.060
You decided I'm going to do things that I would, I would, I typically would say I would
00:34:26.040
So what were the fears you purposely exposed yourself and what did you get from that experience?
00:34:31.640
So the perfect example of this is, uh, my very serious fear of needles, which I turned into
00:34:37.480
a challenge because it's one of those things that actually, because I don't want to do it
00:34:44.260
and because there's a lot of resistance to it, there's a huge amount of growth that can
00:34:48.080
actually come off the back of it if I face that fear.
00:34:52.120
So I turned my fear of needles into a challenge and the challenge was to go and get acupuncture.
00:34:57.940
Now, if you're afraid of needles, getting needles in your face and your stomach and your
00:35:02.480
hair and your arms and your legs all over you, that's not easy.
00:35:07.620
So that's, that's one of the things that I worked up to and I spent some time doing that.
00:35:13.040
And yeah, I, I managed to do it and I kept doing it until it became pretty normal.
00:35:19.640
So it was a, yeah, a great way for me to deal with, uh, that fear of needles and slowly
00:35:27.000
Well, actually I say that I kind of jumped in at the deep end with it and just used all
00:35:30.740
of these, the tools and tricks that I've been studying to help me get through that.
00:35:35.120
And then I went and just got covered in needles and, uh, you know, it was, it was a funny
00:35:41.260
For me, it would be like handling like tarantulas or snakes that, I mean, don't, don't want
00:35:48.140
Like, that's like one thing I'm not a big fan of.
00:35:50.120
So I'd have to, it would take some, uh, gumption to do that for myself.
00:35:54.140
But I think there's a lot, there's a lot that you would learn as well about yourself if
00:36:00.280
And I think this, uh, this can be, yeah, quite an insightful experiment.
00:36:07.240
So what I love is just hearing how different people respond to the antibiotics.
00:36:11.080
Because everyone has different things that they find particularly challenging.
00:36:16.000
Deep water is one that gets mentioned quite a lot.
00:36:18.980
Swimming in the sea, if you can't touch the, the, the bed, the floor below you.
00:36:25.760
Insects come up all the time and heights and this, yeah, public speaking.
00:36:30.240
So it's, I think it can be that, yeah, there's a huge amount of room for, for people to experiment
00:36:37.800
And having a system to deal with adversity and having some tools and tricks in place
00:36:45.180
And actually we'll know that these tools work when we apply them in a controlled environment.
00:36:51.320
And I guess that's a controlled environment, isn't it?
00:36:53.000
We're forcing ourselves to do things that are difficult.
00:36:55.160
You mentioned heights, you purposely induced vertigo in yourself.
00:36:58.360
You went to Chicago and went to the, what it's, it used to be called, I know it as the Sears
00:37:04.160
I mean, it's something different now, but there's an observatory there that you can sort
00:37:08.300
of look over with the glass and it's just, it's just an induced vertigo in you.
00:37:12.880
Yeah, so that was a good one because I do a lot of climbing, but again, I do have this
00:37:17.440
thing, like I do, I have a bit of a thing with heights.
00:37:20.200
So it's always been, that's always been something that I've played around with and the Chicago
00:37:25.440
Tower was just the perfect example of, of really pushing myself because they've got these
00:37:30.000
glass boxes on the outside of the tower and you can literally walk out over the streets
00:37:35.800
of Chicago, hundreds of meters below you on glass, there's a couple of inches of glass
00:37:39.760
below your feet and it's a really, yeah, if you've got a problem with heights, that's
00:37:46.240
I was with my girlfriend that we were there together and she had no problem at all.
00:37:50.660
She walked out because the boxes go maybe like two meters out from the side of the building.
00:37:57.020
So she just walked out as if there was no problem at all.
00:37:59.880
But when I walked out, it was just so difficult for me and my hands were just so sweaty and
00:38:07.820
So you did a year of this intense year of adversity since then, like what sort of things have you
00:38:13.260
done to keep up this idea of the year of adversity in your life?
00:38:17.580
So naturally now it's a mix of things just crop up that are challenges in life.
00:38:23.580
So 2020 has been filled with challenges and, and it's been applying all of the things that
00:38:30.920
I've learned from this experiment to real life as well.
00:38:39.000
And then also just continuing to progress with some of the other things that have been,
00:38:46.700
So pushing myself with my Japanese and running races and marathons and meditating and doing
00:38:53.680
all of these different things and seeking bizarre challenges.
00:38:56.100
And during lockdown, I climbed Mount Everest on my stairs.
00:39:01.420
I decided that because we weren't allowed to go out for, in the UK, we had quite a strict
00:39:09.040
And during the peak of that, I decided that I was desperate to go to the mountains, but
00:39:14.480
So I brought the mountains to me and I spent eight, I think it was seven or eight days climbing
00:39:20.040
my stairs, which is the equivalent height of Everest.
00:39:22.480
So I had to go up and down my stairs 2,137 times.
00:39:33.140
My girlfriend was at the table because we're both working from home.
00:39:36.980
She's at the table in the front room, just working away.
00:39:39.540
And then I'm just going up and down the stairs relentlessly to try and complete this challenge.
00:39:47.600
I ran a marathon in my garden as well during lockdown.
00:39:52.520
So that was another example of something maybe a bit more bizarre.
00:39:58.200
Well, I think it's a good point with the pandemic and the shelter in place orders that
00:40:04.180
It's so easy to be like, well, I'm just going to watch Netflix and play video games and whatever.
00:40:08.920
But like, I think there's something in us that needs that challenge to actually feel
00:40:16.200
And I loved how, you know, finding creative ways to challenge yourself, even when you
00:40:20.720
might not be able to go outside, there's still things you can do if you're creative to challenge
00:40:26.140
And I think it's important to have fun as well when you're doing it, not to take yourself
00:40:29.100
too seriously, because we can be a great way to connect with people.
00:40:32.580
And actually, because even though I couldn't go and see anyone, I posted a few pictures
00:40:37.460
And I actually managed to get some virtual climbing partners who agreed to climb it with
00:40:45.680
I got offered expedition support from a Sherpa support from this company that actually work
00:40:53.160
And loads of people were piping in with advice and stuff.
00:40:59.020
And actually, it was something that I'm never going to forget that.
00:41:05.840
I think we've just got to have the right mindset and just be open to be creative and look at
00:41:12.280
And this whole project has been about mixing the normal challenges or the slightly more mainstream
00:41:19.200
challenges with the bizarre and the weird and the wonderful.
00:41:27.620
Because I think a lot of times people, they take themselves a little bit too serious when
00:41:32.580
Sometimes, you know, you got to have an element of play with it and be okay with feeling a
00:41:38.600
You're like, well, you know, cold showers, what's that really going to do?
00:41:44.560
Maybe it doesn't do anything for you, but you won't know until you try it.
00:41:51.020
So it might not be the cold shower that does it.
00:41:53.800
But I think if that's one of many different things that you're doing, they all add up.
00:41:58.960
And together, that's what makes the difference over time when you're doing and constantly
00:42:04.040
seeking out challenges in different places and in different ways and different styles
00:42:15.540
You know, like I talk about solving a Rubik's Cube.
00:42:17.860
It's not like you can solve a Rubik's Cube and then that's it.
00:42:21.980
But it's one challenge in a list of many things that over time, if we do this, I believe that
00:42:28.480
it teaches us about who we are and teaches us about how to deal with difficulties and
00:42:35.100
what works well for us when we're facing challenge.
00:42:39.960
Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?
00:42:42.060
So my website, benaldridge.com is a great place to start because it's got an active blog
00:42:55.880
The handle for that is at do things that challenge you.
00:42:59.420
And that has loads of pictures from various challenges and climbs and whatnot and lots of
00:43:09.600
And if you're interested in the book, it's on Amazon.
00:43:14.920
And in the US, I can't remember exactly what bookstores it's stocked in, but you should
00:43:30.260
He's the author of the book, How to Be Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable.
00:43:32.920
It's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere.
00:43:34.940
You can find out more information about his work at his website, benaldridge.com.
00:43:38.800
Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash getuncomfortable, where you can find links to
00:43:44.280
And if this idea of doing challenges, weekly challenges for a year, interests you, make
00:43:49.880
It's our online platform, membership site, where one of the part of it is we send you weekly
00:43:53.720
challenges that are going to put you outside of your comfort zone.
00:43:55.980
Besides that, we've got badges based around 50 different skills you can earn.
00:43:59.080
We've got accountability for physical fitness, doing a good deed.
00:44:01.700
Got enrollment starting up here in a few weeks.
00:44:03.540
So go to strenuouslife.co, get your name on our waiting list.
00:44:06.660
So you'll be one of the first to know when enrollment opens up.
00:44:16.400
Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast.
00:44:18.840
Check out our website at artofmanliness.com, where you can find our podcast archives.
00:44:22.060
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00:44:32.560
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00:44:35.080
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00:44:41.060
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00:44:46.620
Until next time, this is Brett McKay, reminding you all that are listening to the AOM podcast,