The Art of Manliness - #640： Weird and Wonderful Ways to Get Comfortable Being Uncomfortable

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:10.760 Now, when most people start a self-improvement journey, they typically create a bucket list.

00:00:14.520 It's all the typically exciting and pleasurable things they hope to do before they die.

00:00:18.400 My guest today started his own self-improvement journey very differently by creating an anti-bucket

00:00:23.440 list consisting of things he didn't want to do and embarking on a year of adversity.

00:00:27.380 His name is Ben Aldridge, and he's the author of How to Be Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable,

00:00:31.380 43 Weird and Wonderful Ways to Build a Strong, Resilient Mindset.

00:00:35.040 Ben and I began our conversation with how his struggle with debilitating panic attacks inspired

00:00:38.840 him to study philosophical and psychological ideas on how to fight back against his anxiety,

00:00:43.100 what he learned that can benefit anyone looking to be more resilient, and how he was particularly

00:00:46.480 inspired by the stoic idea of intentionally practicing adversity to prepare yourself for

00:00:50.660 adversity.

00:00:51.240 We then talked about the project Ben set for himself by embarking on a year of mental, physical,

00:00:54.720 and skill-based challenges designed to push him outside of his comfort zone, how he decided

00:00:58.240 what kinds of challenges to do, and how doing hard things changed them.

00:01:01.360 From there, we get into the specific challenges Ben completed, from taking cold showers to

00:01:04.700 learning Japanese, and what they taught him about self-discipline, facing your fears, and

00:01:08.380 the human potential for growth.

00:01:09.800 And we end our conversation with the way he's continued to push himself after the year of

00:01:12.880 challenges was through, even in the midst of a pandemic lockdown, including climbing Mount

00:01:17.060 Everest from inside his house.

00:01:18.580 After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash getuncomfortable.

00:01:24.720 All right, Ben Aldridge, welcome to the show.

00:01:32.960 Hi, Brett.

00:01:33.680 Thank you so much for having me on.

00:01:34.960 It's a pleasure to be able to chat to you today.

00:01:36.880 So you've published a book, How to Be Uncomfortable with Being Uncomfortable, 43 Weird and Wonderful

00:01:42.140 Ways to Build a Strong, Resilient Mindset.

00:01:44.760 And in this book, you highlight 43 different things that people can do to be uncomfortable

00:01:49.540 and hopefully get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

00:01:51.860 But the impetus behind this book is interesting because it's about your story, your history,

00:01:58.220 your struggle with anxiety and panic attacks.

00:02:01.140 So tell us about that story.

00:02:02.960 When did you start noticing you have problems with anxiety and panic attacks?

00:02:06.480 And then for those who haven't experienced a panic attack, what does it feel like?

00:02:11.420 Yeah, sure.

00:02:11.860 So all of this is off the back of that, as you said, that anxiety.

00:02:14.580 And seemingly out of the blue, a couple of years ago, I was hit with severe and debilitating

00:02:21.140 anxiety.

00:02:22.660 And I didn't know what was happening at the time.

00:02:24.900 I had no education on mental health.

00:02:27.300 So I honestly thought I was dying.

00:02:29.280 It was really, really overwhelming experience.

00:02:32.540 And it's very physical.

00:02:34.680 So my heart would be racing.

00:02:36.100 My hands would be shaking.

00:02:37.760 I'd be feeling sick.

00:02:39.240 And there was just this underlying sense of fear all the time.

00:02:43.300 And there was no reason to be afraid.

00:02:46.060 And that's the thing that was so bizarre about it.

00:02:48.100 There was no trigger.

00:02:49.560 And nothing had happened to cause this.

00:02:51.820 It literally came out of the blue.

00:02:53.900 So this really did knock me for six.

00:02:58.520 And I had no tools in place to deal with it.

00:03:01.600 So the whole journey has come off the back of this, learning to manage my anxiety and

00:03:07.280 figure out what was happening.

00:03:11.080 And so to figure out what was happening, you started doing some heavy bibliotherapy.

00:03:15.640 So you started reading books, psychology books about cognitive behavioral therapy, about

00:03:19.400 anxiety, even studied philosophy.

00:03:22.380 But in the beginning of the book, you talk about some of the big ideas that you took away

00:03:25.540 from different modalities, philosophies, to help you deal with your anxiety.

00:03:30.420 And surprisingly, one of the most helpful things for me wasn't particularly psychology,

00:03:35.400 but it was philosophy.

00:03:36.540 It was Stoic philosophy.

00:03:38.080 But what was the big idea from Stoic philosophy to help you start to get a handle on your anxiety?

00:03:44.040 So yeah, Stoicism was a really key philosophy and set of ideas that just really helped me.

00:03:49.540 And at the time, to deal with all of this, I went to the doctor who initially had diagnosed

00:03:55.440 me with anxiety.

00:03:57.520 And I was given a few things that I could do.

00:03:59.280 But for me, educating myself was the number one thing that I wanted to do.

00:04:03.880 I needed to understand what's happening.

00:04:05.940 And that's, as you said, that's when I got into extensive reading on all these different

00:04:09.840 subjects.

00:04:10.200 And I started picking ideas from different places.

00:04:13.660 But Stoicism was the one that really clicked with me.

00:04:16.920 And I do write a lot about some of these other philosophies and concepts from Buddhism to

00:04:21.400 cognitive behavioral therapy and mindset, growth mindset and fixed mindset.

00:04:26.160 And these ideas really, really helped.

00:04:28.220 But Stoicism was the one that just really resonated with me and allowed me to kind of actively fight

00:04:34.580 back against my anxiety.

00:04:36.180 And the key concept that really got everything going was the idea of practicing adversity,

00:04:42.140 which is so counterintuitive when you're in a kind of anxiety hole and you're in a very

00:04:46.720 dark place.

00:04:47.480 The idea is that by practicing adversity, you prepare for adversity.

00:04:52.920 And the Stoics used to deliberately step outside of their comfort zones in order to build

00:04:57.960 resilience.

00:04:59.300 And they did this in so many different interesting ways.

00:05:02.060 So they'd expose themselves to the cold, to the heat.

00:05:05.360 They'd sleep on the floor without, like on hard surfaces.

00:05:09.560 And they would fast from food and water.

00:05:11.420 And there was one Stoic, Kato, who used to wear things to embarrass himself so that he

00:05:17.460 could practice shame.

00:05:19.900 And I love this idea of training.

00:05:22.280 I knew that you go to the gym to train your body, but I hadn't really considered where you

00:05:26.180 go to train your mind.

00:05:27.780 And the Stoics were doing this thousands of years ago.

00:05:30.460 And that really connected with me.

00:05:32.500 So that was a huge thing.

00:05:35.100 And I started to create my own challenges based off the Stoics and then based on things 0.99

00:05:39.920 that would push me out of my comfort zone in order to see if that would help me to deal

00:05:45.260 with my anxiety and also to be able to put in place systems to face that anxiety and to

00:05:51.780 be able to deal with things when they come up.

00:05:54.660 So that's really what changed everything for me when I encountered this concept.

00:06:01.520 No, yeah.

00:06:01.860 And we're going to talk about some of the challenges that you did to help you with dealing with

00:06:05.440 your anxiety.

00:06:05.900 And a lot of them were inspired directly from the Stoics.

00:06:08.660 And I think it's interesting that with the Stoics, I think they counterintuitive or just

00:06:13.540 sort of intuitively figured out some aspects of cognitive behavioral therapy that we figured

00:06:17.600 out millennia later after Stoicism came on the scene.

00:06:21.640 And one thing that we've learned with treatments for anxiety is that exposure therapy is one

00:06:26.460 of the best things you do.

00:06:27.280 Instead of hiding or running away from the thing that makes you uncomfortable or triggers

00:06:31.720 the anxiety attack, what a lot of therapists recommend for people who deal with anxiety is exposing

00:06:36.660 themselves to that thing so that they get habituated to it and they learn how to manage or the emotions

00:06:43.260 and feelings that they get come up when they have that trigger.

00:06:46.680 Yeah, absolutely.

00:06:47.420 And I think that we don't even need to be anxious people to benefit from this system of fear

00:06:51.760 exposure.

00:06:53.140 And in my book, I talk a little bit about how I created these challenges.

00:06:56.640 And one concept, which is very relevant to what we're talking about now is the idea of

00:07:01.420 an anti-bucket list.

00:07:02.980 Now, we all know what a bucket list is.

00:07:05.160 That's where you want to do these things before you die.

00:07:07.200 You want to go to Vegas or maybe you want to go and, I don't know, sleep in the desert.

00:07:11.700 There's loads of different things that you would want to do.

00:07:14.900 The idea of the anti-bucket list is that there are things that you definitely don't want to

00:07:19.240 do before you die.

00:07:20.080 And as adults, it's very easy for us to avoid them.

00:07:23.540 And this is something that we can play with and we can create challenges and things around

00:07:29.740 this.

00:07:30.560 And the anti-bucket list is essentially a load of things that we don't want to do.

00:07:33.920 And we can use that to test ourselves and to challenge ourselves.

00:07:37.560 And this is something that the Stoics would absolutely agree with and something that they

00:07:41.960 would be behind.

00:07:43.640 And I love this concept.

00:07:44.780 So the anti-bucket list is something that has helped me to create challenges that we'll

00:07:49.640 talk about later, I guess.

00:07:50.680 But it's a fun concept.

00:07:52.980 So another philosophy that you found useful was Buddhism.

00:07:55.200 And what's interesting about Buddhism, there's a lot of similarities between it and Stoicism.

00:07:58.980 But what was the big idea from Buddhism that you took away that helped you not only create

00:08:03.640 this year of adversity, these challenges you did, but also just help you manage your anxiety

00:08:07.680 on a day-to-day basis?

00:08:09.300 Yeah, so Buddhism is an amazing philosophical system for dealing with life.

00:08:15.840 And I'm not a Buddhist, but I really like a lot of the concepts within Buddhism.

00:08:20.340 And the one that really resonated with me was the concept of meditation and mindfulness.

00:08:26.960 And I found that that's very helpful when facing fear and dealing with anxiety.

00:08:32.260 The concept of trying to be more present and focusing on my breathing has been very helpful.

00:08:39.260 And I've managed to test that out in lots of different settings.

00:08:41.540 And I know that it works for me.

00:08:43.640 So focusing on my breath is really important.

00:08:46.500 And the idea of impermanence as well within Buddhism, that everything changes.

00:08:51.200 And whatever we're facing at the moment, it will change.

00:08:53.860 It's the one guaranteed thing in life is that everything changes.

00:08:57.380 So focusing on that concept and exploring that a little has been very helpful, actually,

00:09:02.640 knowing that even if you're in a bad place, that things will change.

00:09:05.380 It's not always going to be like this.

00:09:06.800 And then finally, you looked at cognitive behavioral therapy.

00:09:09.960 And we've had people on the podcast talk about cognitive behavioral therapy.

00:09:12.780 But what's interesting about it is that it actually, with science and research, has confirmed

00:09:18.580 some of these practices or ideas that the Stoics and Buddhists figured out thousands of years ago.

00:09:24.720 But was there a particular idea from cognitive behavioral therapy that you found useful in

00:09:28.540 helping you manage your anxiety?

00:09:29.720 Yeah, for the anxiety, just blasting my thoughts with logic.

00:09:34.760 Whenever something comes up, and it's always that negative self-talk that can help to spiral

00:09:40.460 when you're in an anxious situation and your mind can make things so much worse.

00:09:46.200 So cognitive behavioral therapy is all about questioning those thoughts and really

00:09:50.220 blasting everything with logic.

00:09:52.760 And that really helps if you question it enough, question those negative thoughts and that

00:09:57.900 kind of internal dialogue that's not doing you any favors.

00:10:02.180 Blast it with logic.

00:10:03.260 And actually, you'll find that a lot of the time, it's not rooted in logic.

00:10:06.620 So this does help.

00:10:08.460 And the more you do it, I think, the more automatic it becomes.

00:10:11.340 At first, it's very counterintuitive, I guess.

00:10:14.040 But over time, you become better at doing it.

00:10:16.800 And that's something that's really helped me.

00:10:20.020 So what's an example of that that you saw in your own life?

00:10:22.320 I mean, what would be like a trigger that you'd have that would sort of spark an anxiety attack?

00:10:26.140 And then what would you do with the cognitive behavioral therapy to challenge that feeling?

00:10:31.460 Okay, so I think I'll give you an example of when I'm climbing.

00:10:36.280 Okay, so I do a lot of climbing and mountaineering.

00:10:38.800 I still feel fear when I'm at height.

00:10:43.360 So I get sweaty hands and it's having to deal with that.

00:10:47.640 But it's constantly leaning into the logical side of the process.

00:10:51.440 Like when I'm climbing at the gym and if I'm lead climbing and I'm quite high up,

00:10:56.140 I have to really question this negative thought pattern in my mind,

00:11:01.360 which is telling me that, oh, okay, this is a dangerous situation.

00:11:04.480 I have to counter that and really lean into the logic that actually I know what I'm doing.

00:11:10.360 And this is very safe.

00:11:12.000 It's a very controlled environment.

00:11:13.600 I've spent a long time learning this craft and really leaning into the health and safety,

00:11:19.820 I guess that side of it really focusing on that and countering that internal talk.

00:11:25.960 And that's just an example of something that I guess that's an ongoing thing because I continue to climb.

00:11:30.100 It's a big part of my life.

00:11:31.820 But using that logic in settings like that when I feel afraid, that's very helpful.

00:11:37.020 So I can focus on that.

00:11:39.040 That's one example, I think.

00:11:40.200 So you did all this research.

00:11:44.020 I mean, it's funny.

00:11:44.580 You mentioned Vegas as people going on the bucket list.

00:11:46.680 You actually talk about in the book, you had your big, big panic attack when you were in Vegas in the United States.

00:11:52.720 And that's when it really kicked off everything in your whole research into anxiety and how to manage it.

00:11:57.900 And then after this research, you decided, okay, I'm going to start from the Stoics, from the Buddhists, 0.79

00:12:02.740 from this cognitive behavioral therapy.

00:12:03.940 I'm going to do the things that make me uncomfortable so that I can get comfortable with those feelings of anxiety that I get.

00:12:12.480 So you had this idea, I'm going to do this year of adversity.

00:12:15.560 And like I said, I think a lot of this inspiration came from the Stoics who were doing all this stuff, 0.72

00:12:19.460 sleeping on the floor, exposing themselves to the cold, wearing ridiculous clothes.

00:12:23.680 So we're going to talk about some of the challenges in specific.

00:12:26.060 But when you were crafting this year of adversity, how did you figure out what sorts of challenges you were going to do?

00:12:34.060 How did you figure out what sorts of challenges to do?

00:12:36.380 And how did you know that they were challenging enough or not challenging enough?

00:12:40.620 Yeah, so there was a real mix with that.

00:12:42.520 What I wanted to do was push myself in different directions.

00:12:46.060 So I knew that you can physically challenge yourself and that's going to do one thing.

00:12:50.720 But there's also academic ways to challenge yourself, intellectual ways, mentally you can make yourself uncomfortable.

00:12:57.900 So I had these categories and there are three categories in the book that I talk about, mental, physical and skill.

00:13:04.680 And these are just the kind of broad categories that I would use to brainstorm different ideas and create potential challenges.

00:13:13.180 And then it was about seeing what's realistic because some of them are massive.

00:13:18.180 Some of the things that I ended up committing to are huge, like life-changing, really daily, like daily committing challenges that are very, very big.

00:13:26.820 And other ones were really small.

00:13:28.140 And I think it was important having that mix and punctuating my year and my life with challenges that ranged in commitment.

00:13:37.140 Because if you bite off too many big challenges, it can be overwhelming and I don't think you'll be able to achieve.

00:13:42.620 So it was important to have a mix and to explore the different kinds of things that naturally crop up when you have a more committing challenge.

00:13:50.960 But also, there's a lot to be said for a very short five-minute challenge before you go to work or somewhere that you can insert a challenge into your day.

00:13:59.780 I kind of like that, having a balance and playing around with it.

00:14:02.620 So after you did this for a year, I mean, after you did this year of challenges, I mean, did you notice a big difference?

00:14:10.440 Was it like night and day or was the improvement like more subtle?

00:14:15.720 The improvement was, yeah, I guess it's been gradually the confidence like compounds over time.

00:14:22.580 The more you do these, the more I did these challenges, the more confident I became.

00:14:26.500 And I stopped having panic attacks.

00:14:29.900 I stopped, like I started to understand how my mind was working and I gained control of myself.

00:14:37.820 And I started, as soon as that happened, as soon as the panic attacks stopped, I knew that there was value in this concept.

00:14:44.720 And it was, it's been quite an amazing process.

00:14:48.140 And although in the book, I talk about a year of adversity because I did it, I did a year really to test out this concept.

00:14:53.760 But now it's something that I continue to do.

00:14:56.640 And there's lots of things and lots of challenges that I have in my life.

00:15:01.500 And I've got a long list of things I want to do.

00:15:03.820 So I would say that it's a lifestyle, but that's probably a bit pretentious.

00:15:07.000 But it's something that I can, it's a continual thing.

00:15:10.740 The year was like kicking it off, testing it out to see if it worked and if it would help with the anxiety.

00:15:16.160 And when I saw that it did, it's become a permanent part of my life.

00:15:19.960 Well, you said no more panic attacks, but you still deal with some anxiety.

00:15:24.740 You mentioned the rock climbing, you get sort of fear of heights still.

00:15:27.480 But it sounds like you're better able to handle those emotions, those intense emotions when they do crop up.

00:15:33.700 Oh, 100%. Yes.

00:15:34.860 And I wouldn't say that I'd never have a panic attack again in the future.

00:15:38.380 But I think the key for this whole project has been learning how to deal with that.

00:15:43.240 And I guess pushing myself in a relatively controlled environment has allowed me to test out all these different ideas from philosophy and psychology.

00:15:51.400 And the ones that work and resonate with me, I keep them.

00:15:54.680 And now I have a set of tools and tricks that I can use when things get challenging and life throws curveballs at you.

00:16:00.920 And that's really been the key take home from it.

00:16:04.140 And yes, obviously, I can still get anxious, but I've got systems and ideas in place to help me deal with that, which is a massive change from when I first started experiencing anxiety and panic attacks.

00:16:16.820 So, yeah, it's been a profound difference.

00:16:18.640 And that's why I'm excited to be talking about this and sharing it and writing about it.

00:16:23.300 We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.

00:16:27.820 And now back to the show.

00:16:29.360 All right, so let's talk about some of these specific challenges, because this is a lot of fun.

00:16:32.800 And the first one you start off the book with is inspired directly from the Stoics.

00:16:37.220 It was Embrace the Cold.

00:16:38.960 Now, it doesn't talk about you didn't go out in the winter and just sort of roll around in the snow.

00:16:43.760 What you did to Embrace the Cold is take cold showers.

00:16:47.060 So what was the big takeaway from this?

00:16:48.940 What was your experience like with it?

00:16:50.320 And how did this help you with your bigger goal of managing discomfort?

00:16:54.820 Yeah, so the cold showers are great because it's now a daily ritual for me.

00:17:00.280 And it's something that I wake up and it's one of the first things I do.

00:17:04.040 And it's always it's dealing with that mental resistance.

00:17:07.540 Don't want to get into the cold because your body there's that kind of there's an element of pain associated with the cold.

00:17:15.500 So your brain is telling you that you shouldn't do it.

00:17:18.400 And actually fighting back against that is is all about self-control.

00:17:22.720 So that's really one of the key take homes from this particular challenge.

00:17:27.860 And the after effects, you feel incredible from being in the cold and exposing yourself to the cold.

00:17:34.480 That kind of endorphin boost that you get afterwards and just the element of discipline, being able to pay attention to your mind and force yourself to do something that your mind is telling you that this is a bad idea.

00:17:47.480 That's quite, quite good to be able to play around with that because it's self-discipline that that's helping to cultivate.

00:17:53.200 And so do you do the way a lot of people do cold showers?

00:17:56.700 They'll start off warm and then kind of gradually take it down to cold so that it's sort of like the frog, you're boiling the frogs, but in reverse.

00:18:04.620 So I imagine you recommend you start off cold and just jump right in.

00:18:09.240 Yeah, just cold the whole way.

00:18:10.600 That's the worst.

00:18:12.180 That's the best way to do it.

00:18:13.500 And then you can take it further as well.

00:18:15.760 How would you take it further?

00:18:17.160 I mean, how did you do that?

00:18:18.120 So I do a lot of wild swimming and in the UK, the sea's pretty cold.

00:18:24.680 So if you're swimming in winter, then that's brutally cold.

00:18:27.880 But lots of cold baths and then taking it further with ice baths.

00:18:31.300 And I've been ice swimming in Finland.

00:18:33.460 That was probably one of the most bizarre experiences I've had.

00:18:37.280 And that was brutally cold in a frozen lake swimming.

00:18:41.180 And that's really tough.

00:18:42.480 But it's an interesting thing to play around with.

00:18:45.740 And I've had a lot of fun with it.

00:18:46.800 When you did the ice swimming, did you jump in a sauna afterwards?

00:18:50.380 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:18:51.560 Yeah, I had to do that because it's just so, yeah, so cold.

00:18:55.560 You know what's interesting about the cold showers?

00:18:56.800 I've been doing them for a while too.

00:18:58.220 But even today, I mean, after years of doing this, it still is, you still get that sort of

00:19:03.700 that clinch factor right before you get into the cold shower.

00:19:07.780 Like for some reason, I still haven't gotten used to it.

00:19:10.560 It's just like my body's like, no, this is not going to be comfortable.

00:19:12.760 But then, as you said, after you do it, you start feeling better and you feel great after

00:19:16.720 the shower.

00:19:18.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:18.900 And that's it, really.

00:19:20.640 And it's just a small win, isn't it?

00:19:22.000 It's not a big challenge in the sense that it's not going to take up a lot of time.

00:19:25.700 But yeah, it's something.

00:19:28.640 I'm trying to convince my mom to give it a go.

00:19:30.800 She's very open-minded, but this is the one thing that she's not interested in trying.

00:19:36.660 And my theory is that if I talk about it enough whenever I do podcasts and interviews, if I

00:19:42.260 keep going on about my mom not getting into the cold shower, hopefully that's going to 1.00

00:19:46.220 be inspiration for her to give it a try. 0.58

00:19:48.560 To go do it.

00:19:49.440 So another challenge you did was you went on a 106-mile walk hike.

00:19:55.000 So first off, what were you hoping to get out of this experience?

00:19:58.900 And then talk about the logistics of how long did it take you?

00:20:01.580 How did you feel afterwards?

00:20:02.940 Did you want to die?

00:20:03.880 What was going on with that?

00:20:06.100 This was a really hard challenge.

00:20:07.640 This was a physical challenge.

00:20:08.860 So this was exploring a different side of the challenge dynamic.

00:20:13.260 And I guess that I just wanted to push myself physically.

00:20:16.560 And I've always wanted to do this route.

00:20:18.300 It's called the Cotswold Way.

00:20:19.880 It stops in Chipping Camden.

00:20:21.600 It's kind of in the middle of the UK.

00:20:23.240 And it goes all the way to Bath.

00:20:24.900 It's 106 miles.

00:20:26.600 It's really hilly.

00:20:27.520 It's probably about 4,000 meters of ascent in total, which is pretty high.

00:20:33.600 And every day was about a marathon, maybe longer than a marathon.

00:20:39.140 And it took, I can't remember the exact amount of time it took, but most days were 10 to 12

00:20:44.060 hours of walking.

00:20:45.760 So it was, it's just the kind of relentless nature of it.

00:20:50.020 It's so difficult.

00:20:51.580 The first day you're excited and it's, it's okay because it's, you know, day one, but day

00:20:56.320 two, you wake up and your body is in bits and you know, you've got another three days

00:21:00.820 to do afterwards.

00:21:01.760 And so it was just that fighting against that, that pain and also just pushing myself, developing

00:21:09.440 the endurance.

00:21:10.280 And I think the thing with this challenge is I totally underestimated it because I'd run

00:21:14.080 a marathon recently.

00:21:15.320 And that was one of the other things I'd never run a marathon before.

00:21:17.800 So I got into running and I did my first marathon, which was huge.

00:21:22.440 So I just assumed that walking, you know, walking for four days wouldn't be a problem, but actually

00:21:27.840 it surprised me.

00:21:28.920 I think, uh, I didn't have enough respect for that.

00:21:31.560 And, uh, yeah, it was really, really difficult on the fourth day as well.

00:21:35.920 And I really hurt my, my Achilles tendon afterwards.

00:21:39.280 Um, I did complete it though.

00:21:41.020 And, uh, it was a lot of, uh, sort of get on with it, get your head down, but it did.

00:21:45.800 Yeah.

00:21:45.980 It taught me a lot as well doing that.

00:21:47.720 And it was very physical challenge.

00:21:49.580 That was one of the harder ones.

00:21:50.440 I think actually, when I look back on it, I think time has softened how difficult it

00:21:55.340 was.

00:21:56.380 No.

00:21:56.760 Yeah.

00:21:56.880 I think we've talked about on the site, this, there's this thing that Teddy Roosevelt and

00:22:01.260 then later JFK picked up as like this 50 mile March and we've had people do it.

00:22:06.820 And it was one of the, yeah, they all say the same thing.

00:22:08.320 I was like, Oh, it's just walking for 50 miles.

00:22:10.680 It's not bad.

00:22:11.180 But then by the end of it, like they're just destroyed for days.

00:22:15.980 There's just like, they, yeah, like they said, they underestimated how hard it was going

00:22:19.260 to be.

00:22:20.580 Yeah.

00:22:20.900 Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:21.780 And that's the thing with walking.

00:22:22.900 It's very easy to, to, yeah, underestimate it.

00:22:26.200 So it was a, it was a great challenge and a great way for me to push myself.

00:22:29.280 And it was a pretty, pretty awesome experience.

00:22:32.560 Would you ever do it again?

00:22:34.680 Oh yeah, absolutely.

00:22:35.740 Yeah.

00:22:35.980 Okay.

00:22:36.340 Absolutely.

00:22:37.040 Yeah.

00:22:37.440 That's good.

00:22:38.280 So let's talk about another challenge that we talked about physical challenges so far.

00:22:41.500 One challenge you decided to do in a year is to learn a foreign language, but not just

00:22:45.940 any foreign language, like, you know, Spanish or French or Portuguese.

00:22:48.980 Those are Latin.

00:22:49.520 Those are kind of, they're, they're difficult, but not, they're pretty easy.

00:22:52.860 You decided to learn Japanese.

00:22:55.260 So how were you able to successfully become fluent in Japanese in a year?

00:22:59.740 And what did that challenge teach you?

00:23:02.040 So after a year of Japanese, I'm nowhere near being fluent, but I've learned so much

00:23:08.180 during the process.

00:23:09.080 I'm still not fluent, but it's something, it's an ongoing process.

00:23:12.180 And the kind of level I'm at is, I guess you could say everyday conversation.

00:23:17.700 I can speak, all my lessons are on Skype and they're an hour long and I don't use English.

00:23:22.840 So there's enough for me to be able to communicate and understand a lot.

00:23:28.540 And I went to Japan at the end of last year and my experience was completely different from

00:23:32.840 all my previous experiences in Japan.

00:23:34.960 And I set myself the challenge of not using Japanese, sorry, not using English when speaking

00:23:39.440 to anyone in Japan.

00:23:41.420 So that I managed to do that.

00:23:43.260 And that was incredible because it just, it was the first time I've ever been able to

00:23:47.040 communicate entirely in a second language when on holiday in a, in a country.

00:23:52.760 That doesn't speak English.

00:23:53.720 So that was a huge achievement for me.

00:23:56.340 And yeah, it's just been a constant, a constant leveler, I guess, because it's so brutally hard

00:24:01.840 and it's so different from English, the grammatical construction and all of the kanji characters

00:24:07.800 are the Chinese characters that they use.

00:24:10.000 There's thousands that you have to learn and they've got multiple different pronunciations

00:24:13.660 depending upon context.

00:24:15.000 And it's a, it's a really complicated language.

00:24:17.860 So it's, it's that kind of learning to have the right mindset when you're dealing with

00:24:23.640 failure, because learning Japanese is just constantly failing.

00:24:27.460 And that's not necessarily a bad thing for us to, to learn how to manage that and deal

00:24:31.760 with it.

00:24:32.120 But it's been very rewarding to be able to, at least to be able to communicate in a second

00:24:38.080 language.

00:24:38.520 I was terrible at languages at school.

00:24:40.240 So this was kind of fighting back against that self-limiting belief and, and working

00:24:45.360 on mindset.

00:24:46.460 So I had, I've had a lot of fun with this and it's been a really, yeah, really interesting

00:24:50.600 experience.

00:24:51.720 Yeah.

00:24:51.860 So we, that's another idea that you took a lot from, or from psychology was this mindset

00:24:56.180 theory from Carol Dweck.

00:24:57.880 Like we've had her on the podcast, talk about that, that idea of that there's two types 1.00

00:25:01.340 of mindsets.

00:25:02.100 There's fixed mindset and a growth mindset.

00:25:05.700 And I think a tendency for a lot of people is to have that fixed mindset.

00:25:09.240 It's like, well, I, I stink at Japanese. 0.99

00:25:12.240 I'll always think of Japanese and I'm just going to give up. 1.00

00:25:15.560 Why bother?

00:25:16.520 But what Dweck has found is people with a growth mindset, it's like, well, I don't know

00:25:20.520 Japanese yet.

00:25:21.960 And if I work at it, I can get better.

00:25:24.080 Or that can allow people to do more than they think they were capable of doing.

00:25:29.060 Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:30.140 And her book and her work is incredible and it's had a real effect on me.

00:25:35.440 And yeah, using that attitude when learning another language seems to be the, the best

00:25:40.500 way to deal with all of the inevitable obstacles.

00:25:43.180 And it just makes it more rewarding.

00:25:44.880 I guess it's focusing on process over results and knowing that learning something like Japanese

00:25:49.500 is a really committing challenge and something that's going to take a long time.

00:25:54.940 But actually within that, there's so many lessons that we can take out of it.

00:25:59.140 And it's taught me so much and it's given me a lot.

00:26:02.140 So it's, yeah, it's definitely worth doing.

00:26:04.080 And yeah, I've, I've gained a lot of interesting, I've had a lot of interesting experiences as

00:26:09.380 well in Japan.

00:26:10.240 So it's something that I really connect with.

00:26:12.980 Yeah.

00:26:13.080 I think the language learning is really a great way to explore that idea of fixed and growth

00:26:16.960 mindsets.

00:26:17.400 And I know that for a lot of people who are struggling with anxiety or even depression,

00:26:21.920 there's a tendency to get in that fixed mindset.

00:26:24.040 It's like, well, I'm a depressive, there's nothing I can do to change.

00:26:28.280 So I might as well just give up.

00:26:29.880 But no, the idea of cognitive behavioral therapy and mindset theory is that, okay, you might

00:26:33.480 not like completely cure yourself of depression or anxiety, but there's things you can do to,

00:26:38.360 to manage it.

00:26:39.280 And that can give you hope and can help you do those things that, that we know will, will

00:26:44.320 help you manage with this stuff.

00:26:46.340 Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:46.960 It's all about just being proactive, taking action.

00:26:51.920 And that's, that's what's helped me as well.

00:26:53.620 Just being really, I guess, probably aggressive in the way that I've tried to deal with my

00:26:59.600 mental health.

00:27:00.180 And I've just really tried to educate myself and, and step outside of my comfort zone and

00:27:05.500 apply all of the, the philosophies and concepts that I've encountered.

00:27:09.060 So another challenge is sleeping in a bivy bag.

00:27:13.280 Now for Americans might not be familiar with a bivy bag is. 1.00

00:27:16.740 I learned this, the idea of a bivy bag from another British person, Alistair Humphreys,

00:27:21.900 the little Mike, the micro adventure guy.

00:27:24.520 Yeah.

00:27:24.920 For those who aren't familiar with bivy bag, what is it?

00:27:27.360 And what did this experience of sleeping in a bivy bag teach you?

00:27:29.920 So the bivy bag is great.

00:27:32.000 It's essentially a giant bin bag that goes on the outside of your sleeping bag.

00:27:36.080 So you don't need a tent when you're camping and it's a, it's, it's waterproof and you just

00:27:42.160 put it over your sleeping bag and then you can sleep on a mountain summit or by a river

00:27:46.600 or on the beach or in the forest.

00:27:49.560 And it's, it's enough of a protective shell to keep the elements at bay, but you're also

00:27:54.880 very conscious of the elements because you've got your head poking out and it's a very wild

00:27:59.220 back to basics experience, but it can be a lot of fun.

00:28:03.820 And I've certainly had some interesting experiences in a bivy bag.

00:28:09.260 And it's, uh, it's one of those things.

00:28:10.840 It's very, in a way it's quite stoic because it's not that comfortable.

00:28:14.220 Let's be honest.

00:28:15.100 It's sleeping on the floor and you are exposed to the elements.

00:28:20.960 And, you know, if it's a lovely summer evening and you're in a beautiful place in the countryside,

00:28:26.320 it's probably not that hard.

00:28:28.540 But if you're in the middle of a thunderstorm and you're on a beach and, you know, it's,

00:28:33.280 it's all a bit crazy outside, then that is a pretty challenging experience.

00:28:37.440 So I've had both of those experiences and I think it's, it's good for us to, you know,

00:28:43.600 to play around with this.

00:28:44.640 And I've enjoyed the connecting with nature and actually the kind of the difficulty of

00:28:50.960 it.

00:28:51.140 It's not easy, but it's always novel.

00:28:53.080 I'll tell you, I'll never forget, uh, every single bivy that I've done.

00:28:56.560 They're very memorable.

00:28:57.300 So, uh, yeah, I highly recommend it.

00:28:59.740 It's just such a great way of, uh, getting outdoors and it's a really lightweight way

00:29:04.160 to move around as well.

00:29:06.280 And so you said, okay, you mentioned sleeping on the floor because basically when you're

00:29:09.460 in a bivy bag, you, that's what you do. 1.00

00:29:11.260 You're sleeping on the ground.

00:29:12.140 But another challenge you did was you just, instead of sleeping in your bed at home, you

00:29:16.180 decided I'm just going to sleep on the floor like the Stoics did.

00:29:19.960 What, what did you get out of that challenge and how did you think it helped you? 0.93

00:29:22.980 Well, that was, uh, that was a ridiculous challenge.

00:29:26.440 And I think the, the key with this whole project as well has been finding some things that have 0.66

00:29:31.400 been ridiculous.

00:29:32.060 Some things are more serious and, um, it's again, yeah, it's play. 0.61

00:29:36.180 Play is the key really.

00:29:37.500 And just exploring, but yeah, this one literally just lie next to the bed and try not to get

00:29:42.320 into the bed because the whole night it's going to be uncomfortable and it's just fighting

00:29:46.360 that, you know, every part of you wants to get up and get into bed.

00:29:50.320 And it's that dealing with that mental, that kind of mental resistance, isn't it?

00:29:54.380 It's that fighting back against it, trying to stay in control, self-discipline in a situation.

00:29:58.860 It's very easy for you to, to solve that problem.

00:30:02.320 And the temptation of having the bed right next to you means that it's very easy for you

00:30:06.220 to solve the problem.

00:30:07.260 You just literally move less than a meter.

00:30:10.220 So it's, it's really paying attention to what your mind does in these situations.

00:30:14.160 And that's been the key for everything, just paying attention to what I'm thinking and,

00:30:19.680 and working on that.

00:30:21.460 And I think these ideas compound as well.

00:30:23.260 So the more you do it, the, you know, the more comfortable it becomes.

00:30:28.700 So public speaking is one of the most common fears that people have and induces anxiety,

00:30:33.460 even in people who don't have problems with anxiety.

00:30:36.280 Was public speaking an issue?

00:30:37.860 Like, was that anxiety inducing for you?

00:30:40.100 Yeah.

00:30:40.600 Yeah, it was.

00:30:41.300 And, um, okay.

00:30:42.940 So what did, what did you do to, to do public speaking?

00:30:46.900 So my dad is, uh, is, uh, was an actor and, uh, he's now a director and he works with businesses

00:30:54.300 and helps people to speak.

00:30:55.940 And he's basically the perfect person to help coach me.

00:31:00.000 So he's been amazing in helping me to deal with that.

00:31:04.100 And I'll never forget the first piece of advice he ever gave me is hilarious.

00:31:08.500 He was like, when you're speaking to people, when you're up in front of an audience, and

00:31:13.480 this is coming from his experience, he's been on the West End stage in front of thousands

00:31:17.340 of people every night for years.

00:31:20.360 And, uh, so he knows about how to deal with that tension within your body.

00:31:24.200 So he said, and I honestly, when he first told me this, I didn't think he was being 0.52

00:31:27.240 serious, but he said, what you need to do is put all of your tension into your bum. 0.96

00:31:32.760 Um, so tight, yeah, tight in your buttocks, as hard as you can put all of your tension 0.97

00:31:38.120 into the lower half of your body.

00:31:40.340 And this frees up your, the top half of your body, it frees up your vocal cords, frees up

00:31:45.160 all of that tension in the top half.

00:31:47.220 If you forcing it down into the bottom half, uh, this is going to help you with that dealing

00:31:52.640 with that stress.

00:31:53.960 And what are these people looking at you?

00:31:55.860 And honestly, I thought he was saying, I thought he was joking, but actually it does work.

00:31:59.920 If you put, you force your tension into the lower half of your body, I found that from

00:32:04.520 when I've had to do certain things speaking wise, it's really helps because it does free

00:32:09.420 up, frees up the top part of the body. 0.88

00:32:11.360 And then naturally after maybe 30 seconds to a minute, you do start to relax a little bit

00:32:16.200 in the environment.

00:32:16.800 But it's that first moment, isn't it?

00:32:18.480 When you're in the thrown into the, the headlights, you've got them on you and that's it, you

00:32:22.900 know?

00:32:23.160 So I love that piece of advice.

00:32:25.640 How did you, did you just like look forward to an opportunity to give a speech?

00:32:30.380 Is that how you did this challenge?

00:32:32.200 So for me, it was a work, it came up with work.

00:32:35.240 So I had to figure it out and do that at work.

00:32:38.240 And then, and then naturally I've been doing it more now recently when the book has come

00:32:42.340 out.

00:32:42.580 So I've had lots of, lots of workshops and lots of podcasts.

00:32:45.600 So I've been able to practice this, getting into that, that headspace and using it.

00:32:50.380 And I'm confident that it's a, it's going to be a skill and something that I'm going

00:32:54.800 to be doing a lot more of.

00:32:56.440 So it's, yeah, it's been really interesting to explore.

00:32:59.240 And yeah, that, that tip has been particularly helpful.

00:33:02.500 And one way you can make this harder is do an open mic standup comedy.

00:33:07.340 Cause that's the pressure.

00:33:08.260 Cause like you, you go up there and people are expecting you to be funny.

00:33:11.880 And if you're not funny, I mean like the, that, like the pressure there could just really

00:33:16.220 cause people just to flounder and dealing with the discomfort of telling a joke that

00:33:21.040 doesn't land and like being okay with that and moving on that can, uh, that can make this

00:33:25.620 experience a lot harder.

00:33:27.320 Oh yeah. 0.97

00:33:27.580 I think that sounds, that sounds ridiculous. 0.73

00:33:29.740 I haven't done that yet.

00:33:31.280 And I just think that's where it's.

00:33:33.600 So the, the stoic that I was talking about earlier, Cato, who used to wear deliberate, like

00:33:37.800 he deliberately would wear ridiculous clothes to feel shame.

00:33:40.460 So this is, this is that really, isn't it? 0.77

00:33:43.180 You go and you deliberately bomb a, uh, a standup night and you just have to deal with

00:33:49.820 that feeling inside as your material doesn't work.

00:33:53.800 And I think that that's, that in itself could be quite an interesting experience.

00:33:58.900 So yeah, there's loads of ways to play around with, with making public speaking harder, but

00:34:03.960 I think it's, uh, it's an interesting, is it?

00:34:06.480 Yeah.

00:34:06.700 It's a fascinating skill to explore.

00:34:08.280 So we mentioned earlier, this idea of the anti-bucket list, like doing the things you

00:34:13.780 don't want to do, like doing the things that you're most afraid of.

00:34:16.860 So it's like basically exposing yourself to your biggest fears.

00:34:19.460 And you did this for one of your challenges.

00:34:21.060 You decided I'm going to do things that I would, I would, I typically would say I would

00:34:24.960 never do.

00:34:26.040 So what were the fears you purposely exposed yourself and what did you get from that experience?

00:34:30.640 Yeah.

00:34:31.640 So the perfect example of this is, uh, my very serious fear of needles, which I turned into

00:34:37.480 a challenge because it's one of those things that actually, because I don't want to do it

00:34:44.260 and because there's a lot of resistance to it, there's a huge amount of growth that can

00:34:48.080 actually come off the back of it if I face that fear.

00:34:52.120 So I turned my fear of needles into a challenge and the challenge was to go and get acupuncture.

00:34:57.940 Now, if you're afraid of needles, getting needles in your face and your stomach and your

00:35:02.480 hair and your arms and your legs all over you, that's not easy.

00:35:07.620 So that's, that's one of the things that I worked up to and I spent some time doing that.

00:35:13.040 And yeah, I, I managed to do it and I kept doing it until it became pretty normal.

00:35:19.640 So it was a, yeah, a great way for me to deal with, uh, that fear of needles and slowly

00:35:25.460 exposing myself to it.

00:35:27.000 Well, actually I say that I kind of jumped in at the deep end with it and just used all

00:35:30.740 of these, the tools and tricks that I've been studying to help me get through that.

00:35:35.120 And then I went and just got covered in needles and, uh, you know, it was, it was a funny

00:35:40.480 experience.

00:35:41.080 Yeah.

00:35:41.260 For me, it would be like handling like tarantulas or snakes that, I mean, don't, don't want

00:35:47.680 to do that.

00:35:48.140 Like, that's like one thing I'm not a big fan of.

00:35:50.120 So I'd have to, it would take some, uh, gumption to do that for myself.

00:35:53.700 Yeah.

00:35:54.140 But I think there's a lot, there's a lot that you would learn as well about yourself if

00:35:57.680 you are forcing yourself to do these things.

00:36:00.280 And I think this, uh, this can be, yeah, quite an insightful experiment.

00:36:07.240 So what I love is just hearing how different people respond to the antibiotics.

00:36:11.080 Because everyone has different things that they find particularly challenging.

00:36:16.000 Deep water is one that gets mentioned quite a lot.

00:36:18.980 Swimming in the sea, if you can't touch the, the, the bed, the floor below you.

00:36:23.200 Um, and there's other things, yeah.

00:36:25.760 Insects come up all the time and heights and this, yeah, public speaking.

00:36:30.240 So it's, I think it can be that, yeah, there's a huge amount of room for, for people to experiment

00:36:37.160 with this.

00:36:37.800 And having a system to deal with adversity and having some tools and tricks in place

00:36:44.060 can help us.

00:36:45.180 And actually we'll know that these tools work when we apply them in a controlled environment.

00:36:51.320 And I guess that's a controlled environment, isn't it?

00:36:53.000 We're forcing ourselves to do things that are difficult.

00:36:55.160 You mentioned heights, you purposely induced vertigo in yourself.

00:36:58.360 You went to Chicago and went to the, what it's, it used to be called, I know it as the Sears

00:37:02.500 Tower.

00:37:02.920 I think it's called the Wills Tower.

00:37:04.160 I mean, it's something different now, but there's an observatory there that you can sort

00:37:08.300 of look over with the glass and it's just, it's just an induced vertigo in you.

00:37:12.880 Yeah, so that was a good one because I do a lot of climbing, but again, I do have this

00:37:17.440 thing, like I do, I have a bit of a thing with heights.

00:37:20.200 So it's always been, that's always been something that I've played around with and the Chicago

00:37:25.440 Tower was just the perfect example of, of really pushing myself because they've got these

00:37:30.000 glass boxes on the outside of the tower and you can literally walk out over the streets

00:37:35.800 of Chicago, hundreds of meters below you on glass, there's a couple of inches of glass

00:37:39.760 below your feet and it's a really, yeah, if you've got a problem with heights, that's

00:37:44.860 pretty tough.

00:37:46.240 I was with my girlfriend that we were there together and she had no problem at all.

00:37:50.660 She walked out because the boxes go maybe like two meters out from the side of the building.

00:37:57.020 So she just walked out as if there was no problem at all.

00:37:59.880 But when I walked out, it was just so difficult for me and my hands were just so sweaty and

00:38:04.900 yeah, that was a pretty memorable experience.

00:38:07.820 So you did a year of this intense year of adversity since then, like what sort of things have you

00:38:13.260 done to keep up this idea of the year of adversity in your life?

00:38:17.580 So naturally now it's a mix of things just crop up that are challenges in life.

00:38:23.580 So 2020 has been filled with challenges and, and it's been applying all of the things that

00:38:30.920 I've learned from this experiment to real life as well.

00:38:36.700 And that's been really helpful.

00:38:39.000 And then also just continuing to progress with some of the other things that have been,

00:38:45.160 that I picked up during that year.

00:38:46.700 So pushing myself with my Japanese and running races and marathons and meditating and doing

00:38:53.680 all of these different things and seeking bizarre challenges.

00:38:56.100 And during lockdown, I climbed Mount Everest on my stairs.

00:39:01.420 I decided that because we weren't allowed to go out for, in the UK, we had quite a strict

00:39:06.520 lockdown for a couple of months.

00:39:09.040 And during the peak of that, I decided that I was desperate to go to the mountains, but

00:39:13.900 I couldn't.

00:39:14.480 So I brought the mountains to me and I spent eight, I think it was seven or eight days climbing

00:39:20.040 my stairs, which is the equivalent height of Everest.

00:39:22.480 So I had to go up and down my stairs 2,137 times.

00:39:27.620 And that was a really bizarre challenge.

00:39:31.660 And I actually had a lot of fun doing it.

00:39:33.140 My girlfriend was at the table because we're both working from home. 0.84

00:39:36.980 She's at the table in the front room, just working away.

00:39:39.540 And then I'm just going up and down the stairs relentlessly to try and complete this challenge.

00:39:45.260 But that was, that's one thing that I've done.

00:39:47.600 I ran a marathon in my garden as well during lockdown.

00:39:50.360 And my garden's only seven meters long.

00:39:52.520 So that was another example of something maybe a bit more bizarre.

00:39:58.200 Well, I think it's a good point with the pandemic and the shelter in place orders that

00:40:01.420 we've all experienced to some extent.

00:40:04.180 It's so easy to be like, well, I'm just going to watch Netflix and play video games and whatever.

00:40:08.920 But like, I think there's something in us that needs that challenge to actually feel

00:40:14.500 healthy and to push ourselves.

00:40:16.200 And I loved how, you know, finding creative ways to challenge yourself, even when you

00:40:20.720 might not be able to go outside, there's still things you can do if you're creative to challenge

00:40:24.860 yourself.

00:40:25.960 Yeah.

00:40:26.140 And I think it's important to have fun as well when you're doing it, not to take yourself

00:40:29.100 too seriously, because we can be a great way to connect with people.

00:40:32.580 And actually, because even though I couldn't go and see anyone, I posted a few pictures

00:40:35.980 on Instagram of this climb.

00:40:37.460 And I actually managed to get some virtual climbing partners who agreed to climb it with

00:40:41.840 me, but on their stairs.

00:40:43.720 And it turned into this quite fun thing.

00:40:45.680 I got offered expedition support from a Sherpa support from this company that actually work

00:40:52.280 in the Himalayas.

00:40:53.160 And loads of people were piping in with advice and stuff.

00:40:56.580 And it turned into this really nice event.

00:40:59.020 And actually, it was something that I'm never going to forget that.

00:41:02.020 That's such a bizarre experience.

00:41:04.200 But yeah, we can find challenge anywhere.

00:41:05.840 I think we've just got to have the right mindset and just be open to be creative and look at

00:41:10.780 different ways to push ourselves.

00:41:12.280 And this whole project has been about mixing the normal challenges or the slightly more mainstream

00:41:19.200 challenges with the bizarre and the weird and the wonderful.

00:41:23.700 And it's been a lot of fun.

00:41:26.780 Yeah, I think that's a good point.

00:41:27.620 Because I think a lot of times people, they take themselves a little bit too serious when

00:41:30.320 they try to do this self-improvement stuff.

00:41:32.580 Sometimes, you know, you got to have an element of play with it and be okay with feeling a 0.63

00:41:37.340 little silly.

00:41:38.600 You're like, well, you know, cold showers, what's that really going to do? 0.99

00:41:40.640 Is that going to do anything?

00:41:41.780 Well, I don't know.

00:41:42.860 Give it a try.

00:41:43.660 You might find out.

00:41:44.560 Maybe it doesn't do anything for you, but you won't know until you try it.

00:41:48.260 Yeah, I completely agree.

00:41:49.240 And I think these ideas compound.

00:41:51.020 So it might not be the cold shower that does it.

00:41:53.800 But I think if that's one of many different things that you're doing, they all add up.

00:41:58.960 And together, that's what makes the difference over time when you're doing and constantly

00:42:04.040 seeking out challenges in different places and in different ways and different styles

00:42:08.900 of pushing yourself out of your comfort zone.

00:42:11.160 I think that's what makes the difference.

00:42:13.680 It's not going to be one thing.

00:42:15.540 You know, like I talk about solving a Rubik's Cube.

00:42:17.860 It's not like you can solve a Rubik's Cube and then that's it.

00:42:21.020 Everything changes.

00:42:21.980 But it's one challenge in a list of many things that over time, if we do this, I believe that

00:42:28.480 it teaches us about who we are and teaches us about how to deal with difficulties and

00:42:35.100 what works well for us when we're facing challenge.

00:42:38.560 Well, Ben, this has been a great conversation.

00:42:39.960 Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?

00:42:42.060 So my website, benaldridge.com is a great place to start because it's got an active blog

00:42:49.760 and a link to all of my social media.

00:42:52.700 And Instagram is where I'm most active.

00:42:55.880 The handle for that is at do things that challenge you.

00:42:59.420 And that has loads of pictures from various challenges and climbs and whatnot and lots of

00:43:05.500 philosophy and quotes and things.

00:43:07.240 So it's a real mix there.

00:43:09.600 And if you're interested in the book, it's on Amazon.

00:43:12.920 It's in lots of different bookstores.

00:43:14.920 And in the US, I can't remember exactly what bookstores it's stocked in, but you should

00:43:19.760 be able to find it if you Google it.

00:43:22.440 Fantastic.

00:43:22.680 Well, Ben Aldridge, thanks for your time.

00:43:23.760 It's been a pleasure.

00:43:24.820 Well, thank you so much for having me on.

00:43:26.340 It's been brilliant to chat to you.

00:43:28.160 Thank you.

00:43:29.180 My guest there was Ben Aldridge.

00:43:30.260 He's the author of the book, How to Be Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable.

00:43:32.920 It's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere.

00:43:34.940 You can find out more information about his work at his website, benaldridge.com.

00:43:38.800 Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash getuncomfortable, where you can find links to

00:43:42.580 resources.

00:43:43.120 We can delve deeper into this topic.

00:43:44.280 And if this idea of doing challenges, weekly challenges for a year, interests you, make

00:43:48.180 sure to check out strenuouslife.co.

00:43:49.880 It's our online platform, membership site, where one of the part of it is we send you weekly

00:43:53.720 challenges that are going to put you outside of your comfort zone.

00:43:55.980 Besides that, we've got badges based around 50 different skills you can earn.

00:43:59.080 We've got accountability for physical fitness, doing a good deed.

00:44:01.700 Got enrollment starting up here in a few weeks.

00:44:03.540 So go to strenuouslife.co, get your name on our waiting list.

00:44:06.660 So you'll be one of the first to know when enrollment opens up.

00:44:16.400 Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast.

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00:44:46.620 Until next time, this is Brett McKay, reminding you all that are listening to the AOM podcast,

00:44:49.820 but put what you've heard into action.

00:44:51.520 will best post it to you all.

00:44:53.740 Thank you for listening.

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00:45:19.420 Ready-bye.

The Art of Manliness - August 31, 2020

#640： Weird and Wonderful Ways to Get Comfortable Being Uncomfortable

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