#655： Simple, Excuse-Busting Advice for Getting in Shape
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Summary
When it comes to getting in shape, there are always a bunch of excuses to use as to why you can t get yourself in gear. You don t know what program to start, you don t have the time, you don't have the equipment, etc etc. My guest today cuts through those excuses and the unnecessary complications people often bring to health and fitness to show us how you can lose weight and get strong in ways that are wonderfully simple but powerfully effective. His name is Dan John, and he s a strength and conditioning coach, a writer of many books and fitness articles, and a college lecturer.
Transcript
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brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast when it comes to
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getting in shape there are always a bunch of excuses to use as why you can't get yourself
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in gear you don't know what program to start you don't have any time you have any equipment
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etc etc my guest today cuts through those excuses and the unnecessary complications people often
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bring to health and fitness to show us how you can lose weight and get strong in ways that are
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wonderfully simple but powerfully effective his name is dan john he's a strength and throwing
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sports coach a writer of many books and articles on health and fitness and a college lecturer we
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begin our conversation with dan's two foundational approaches to simplifying your life called shark
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habits and pirate maps which help you organize and streamline all your decisions in turn helping you
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focus on and stay consistent with your diet and workouts we also talk about the way being part
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of an intentional community can help you keep on track with your fitness goals from there we get
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into dan's quadrants for eating and exercise there's reasonable workouts tough diet reasonable workouts
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reasonable diet tough workouts reasonable diet tough workouts tough diet and when you should be in one
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quadrant or the other we then talk about a very simple way to get started with lifting called the
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one two three method dan's highly effective 10 000 swing kettlebell challenge and how you can still
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work out even if all you have is a single dumbbell we also talk about one of the most effective body
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weight exercises the pull-up and the overlook key to working your way into them if you can't do a
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single rep right now we then talk about why dan thinks you should exercise outside more often and the
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difference between health and fitness and we enter a conversation with dan's prescription for losing
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weight after the show's over check out our show notes at aom.is simple strength
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all right dan john welcome back to the show hey it's an honor brett i don't know if you know this
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but i've been a big fan of the site for a long time and we have a catholic high school here in salt
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lake city called juan diego catholic high school and the principal is actually using a lot of your work
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to work with the young men and i think that's something you should be allotted for because
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the materials yeah i mean some of the stuff i'm like you know how to use an axe and stuff like that
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that's great but it's some of the other stuff that that's on your site that kind of has has real value
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and meaning to this this generation a lot of a lot of important steps are being skipped in our education
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process and it's i think you ought to know that people are listening and using your material to make a
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difference well thanks for letting me know that's always great to hear especially when schools are
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using the information i've also like prisons use the information for stuff and so it's always great
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to hear when that that's going on i like that that's why we do what we do yeah the guys over at
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alcatraz were really interested in how to build a raft that didn't work out for them that didn't work
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out for maybe maybe maybe they escape we don't know all right well you're a strength and conditioning
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coach we've had you on you're on three years ago almost to the day and uh wanted to bring you back
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because i've been seeing some of the stuff you've been writing about you know maybe a decade ago
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making its way it's circulating again it's coming viral against some of the workouts you've developed
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over the years and i thought it'd be fun just to bring you back on talk about some of the the stuff
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but also just dig deep into physical fitness strength and conditioning just how to how to improve our
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performance so let's start off with this um as a as a coach one of your biggest challenges i i would
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think maybe i'm wrong but one of the big challenges of a coach is helping your athletes stay consistent
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with their programming or their training and i know a lot of people that's the big challenge when they
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start off on a fitness program they get going but then they fall off the wagon they get going they fall
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off the wagon so your experience i mean you've been doing this for decades i mean how what are your
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best tips for being consistent with a an exercise program well see i think if you don't mind i think
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you just you just walked into a much bigger thing than you think i just wrote a book called attempts
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and i i like the book and the first part is about some of my new discoveries about goal setting and
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and i'm going to tell you an odd thing when i was an administrator back in 1996 i found this list
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in this little it was you know those uh they don't make them anymore but there was this it was a thing
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called a magazine that's going to scare some of your listeners and in this magazine it had these
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three rules of success show up don't quit ask questions and i just that became my motto i mean
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that and so it's number one is to show up but let's see that i say that and people are going yeah show up
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i'm with you but that i just wasted everybody's time because what you need is an actual other toolkit
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and if you don't mind can i kind of go off for a few seconds about how i do it do it so i've got
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two basic tools i use the first is called shark habits and shark habits comes from my good friend
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rob wolf who is you know the paleo guy the paleo nutrition guy in fact rob was my second email that
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i ever sent which will tell you how amazing that is to say out loud shark habits is this one bite
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and it's gone so let's just go to the basics brett you call me up and say dan will you come to my
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wedding to me that's a binary decision i look at my calendar yes or no so that's to me a shark habit is
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yes if i if i am going to go i rsvp i go to online i buy the gift that you registered for and then i show
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up you got that i wear it's kind of a joke but it's true i i bought 16 of the exact same black polo shirt
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because all they had north america was the 16 in my size so i got all 16 of these shirts and that's
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what i wear so i never think about what i'm going to wear because it's a shark habit i decided black
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polos look nice in me that's what i'm going to wear so that's what shark habits are and they can become
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a little bit more elegant too for example i'm a big believer that as a family you should have a menu
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i mean when my daughters were young it was steak and salad on monday tuesdays was what my wife would
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make what we called viking enchilada three on on wednesdays i made what i called irish jambalaya
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and four was breakfast for dinner that that's good enough for you but we also had a a chores chart
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and we did uh white laundry on monday nights dark laundry on tuesday nights and wednesday was
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clean the bathrooms now you're gonna you're gonna have people say well i don't how does that help
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you well if on a saturday i walked past the bin of white laundry and i saw it was full you know what
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my reaction was that's a monday chore not a saturday chore and i was able to dismiss it out of my head
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and when you go shopping you have a shopping list that ties into the menu when my daughters got a little
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bit older i i even moved to a breakfast menu that we would do i don't know if you know what these are
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but bird's nest or paradise that's where you you cut out a hole in the middle of a piece of bread and
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you put the egg in it everyone knows what it is but you know that was like a that might have been
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wednesday breakfast monday breakfast might have been protein enriched oatmeal you got that got it so
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what it does what shark habits do is it frees your mind up anything that's a kind of a binary decision
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i mean seriously i hate to say this but what's for dinner is kind of a very small end decision
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that you probably if most families probably have
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well i'm gonna say 10 but honestly it's probably less list of meals that they actually eat and you
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can make nutritionists you know you're adding more vegetables and all that so why not just make it a
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policy monday is what this is what we eat and then when we go shopping we buy the ingredients
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for what we're gonna eat on monday so shark habits is number one now number two is comes from pat
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flynn in fact pat is coming out this week with a whole bunch of these something we call pirate maps
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now this is important for athletes and anybody who has a goal so just stick with me for a second
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pirate map go to saint john's island find the white coconut tree take seven paces to the west dig down
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that's pretty simple right let me give you my pirate map every night before i go to bed i make
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my to-do list in fact brett your name is on my to-do list from last night i have you at one o'clock
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and then i make coffee because i wake up to the smell of coffee and then the first thing i do in the
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morning is i try to be grateful for something if i can't be grateful it kind of indicates i didn't
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sleep well every day i take a short meditation i use a app called one moment meditation or i do the
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longer one with brain dot fms every day i strive to eat eight to 14 different vegetables and then the
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final pirate map is every day i do some mobility work called original strength and then five days
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a week i lift weights and walk if i do those five things every day by the way that's taped on my
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computer on the top of my computer and it's also in my journal if i do those five steps every day
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statistically there's a good chance i'll dance at my granddaughter josephine's wedding i'm 63 she's
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six people in my family don't live long so this is the toolkits that i use now so you say well what
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does how does that relate to performance coach mon told me back when i first met him in fall of 1977
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the secret to being a good discus thrower lift weights three days a week throw the discus four days a
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week for the next eight years now brett for the record everybody misses that last part where it
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said eight years but if i just say okay monday wednesday friday i'm gonna throw the discus
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okay monday wednesday friday i'm gonna lift weights monday tuesday thursday saturday i'm gonna throw the
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discus if i just stick to that simple template all my dreams come true if i get a good night's sleep
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i eat my vegetables i eat my protein drink my water lift weights three days a week throw four
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in eight years i'm gonna be about as good as i can be yes obviously there's more obviously but that's
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pretty good and so for me the first thing i do when i work with people now is i try to i love that
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the decluttering craze that's been around for a while the first thing i'm gonna do is try to get
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you to declutter your life if you know i'm gonna ask you about you know the food that you have in
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your in your food cupboard what's in your refrigerator you know what is it what is your
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bedroom like is it quiet you actually allow your you have a tv in your bedroom no no let's get that
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out of there are you are you sticking with me here brett i am yes because once we kind of clear things up
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and kind of get a little bit i hate being binary i hate binary but when it comes to certain things
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in life that are important but are not your goal turn those into shark habits okay you're not going
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to get bored eating viking enchiladas every tuesday night you're just not because we did it for years
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okay anything my wife cooks we call viking anything i cook we call it irish but here's the nice thing
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you always have the ingredients you need you know what to bring out for tomorrow night's defrosting
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or sometimes i'd even make tomorrow night's meal i'd make two meals in a row and all of a sudden what
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you notice is all this and it's not you're not getting free time here you're not getting extra
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hours to the day but what you're doing is you're freeing your brain up to focus on what's truly
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important and in my case it's eating the vegetables getting the protein drinking the water getting a
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good night's sleep exercising almost every day of the week and if i do that day in day out magic will
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happen so for me that's the secret now if we're going to talk about performance athletes yeah we're
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going to probably have a lifting component a hill sprint component technique component a tactical
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component a strategic component whatever but really we're going to try to get that into a very
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simple pirate map a it is sort of a do this for the next eight years list all right so just to recap
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pirate maps are your things like your daily habits your daily routines and your programming you always
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do this then that then that if you keep following these steps they're kind of like recipes right if you
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keep following these steps over time you get to the treasure of better health and fitness and then shark
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habits you make a decision once and you never have to make that decision again if x then y if it's
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monday you're doing this if it's wednesday you're doing this workout you don't keep figuring out what
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you're going to do you don't have to reinvent the wheel every day and part of this overall one bite
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and it's gone philosophy for you too is just do stuff now if it needs doing do it now hey brett what
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what happened when you emailed me uh you emailed me back because see i hate to say this to you but
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you're a shark habit i said yes right that was it i had a binary decision yes i'd love to speak
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with you again brett or no i hate you go away you got the yes fortunate for you that's it and so if i
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get an email i if i open my email i answer every single email if a bill comes in the mail i have a
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checkbook right here i have stamps right there i have envelopes right there i don't write many checks
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anymore because you know everything's automated by the way automating your bill pay is the ultimate
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shark habit you i mean i'm i don't know how many bills i pay a month but i don't think about any of
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them it's all automatic my money goes to my my bank and then we have a little system and this magic device
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happens and the bill comes in and it gets paid i don't think i mean i don't think about any of that
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stuff so to me that's what the shark habits are and then the pirate map is a very simple personally i
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think you can do five some people make pirate maps up to eight but i'm five is about right for me
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if i stick to this eight year 10 year 20 year to-do list good things will happen well another thing that
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can help with consistency so besides okay kind of distinguishing between shark habits pirate maps know
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what your pirate maps are but you also talk about having a home gym or just even just equipment in
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your home could be a dumbbell could be a kettlebell can also help with just consistency as well well
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i don't even know this there's no nice way to say what i'm about to say because it it comes off as
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kind of i'm a jerk with the second i say this but for my business covet has been one of the best
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things that ever happened to me and i i know it's terrible and i'm a horrible person for saying it but
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it is the truth and in fact if you'll share with the listeners that code to get that discount at my
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site we have this thing on the site called the workout generator you put in what equipment you
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have at home and what goals you have and then you get personalized workouts on how many days a week you
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want to work out how long you want to work out with what equipment you have and what you know and
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then you can scale up and down like in the squat family go to goblet squats to overhead squats for
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example but if you have no equipment that's still fine because body weight is a wonderful tool for a
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lot of people if you have one dumbbell okay that's fine too and you're right i have a magnificent home
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gym brett i mean i've got 26 kettlebells three olympic bars bumper plates two different kinds of hip thrust
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machines every farmer bar you think you can think of all the highland game equipment all the track and
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field throws equipment that's just part and just it just goes on and on and on so for me to trade at
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home that's no problem at all i've got everything you need but gentle listener comma you might not
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but you still have your body for body weight you might have a couple of jugs of water uh one of my
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one of my clients realized that empty vinegar bottles are actually a pretty good weight to do
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a lot of things i'm like i never thought of vinegar bottle so you know he had this guy training and
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making progress with you know these discarded vinegar bottles so it's it's the old cliche when i was young
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it was very common when i was young if there's a will there's a way and i still think and to be honest
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with you that is one of the most important things we need to teach young people you know if you have
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the determination you'll figure out how to do it well in addition to determination and willpower you
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also talk about one thing that can really help sort of supercharge your consistency is being a part like
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doing your programming doing your fitness goals with a with an intentional community people who are
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ah let's let's talk about that let's let's talk about intentional community i'm a huge fan of this
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so every day at my house at 9 30 literally people from all over the world show up and train with me
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i want you to know something brett and this is important for you to hear i'm 63 do you think i roll
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out of bed and say boy jeepers i can't wait to work out again today do you think that no but what i
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have bread is i have equipment and i have know-how and the people who show up to my house have
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enthusiasm or interest and what intentional community means is that we are going to come together
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as as a community and we are going to work together to better all of us now
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sometimes it's worse than others and i'll tell you when it's worse if someone says i'm getting ready
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for a kettlebell certification and i need help you'll hear everyone kind of groan because that
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means we are all going to be you know practicing kettlebell swings and snatches and all the rest
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which is very tiring if someone like myself right now i've got an olympic lifting meet in about a month
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so i'm getting ready for this olympic lifting meet but at the same time at my age i need to do
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hypertrophy and mobility so when my group is doing hip thrusts and goblet squats and deficit deadlifts
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i'm snatching and cleaning and jerky if someone's interested like jeff hemingway was here during
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the summer and he and i would olympic lift together while the group was doing the rest of the workout
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but we were all together as one during the warm-up period the original strength some of the hypertrophy
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work certainly the mobility work and then the walk after so what you try to do is you just say
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let's come together when i first moved to california i've since moved back to utah dan martin called me
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up one day and he said you know i found a park let's go work out so dan brought egg salad sandwiches
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i brought the one kettlebell that i had was able to save some other people brought trx's when they
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first showed up and kettlebells and mats and i would look around at the assorted pieces of equipment
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we had and i'd say okay here's what our workout's going to be now if somebody was supposed to bring
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suspension trainers and forgot well that meant we were all going to have to go around that
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or if someone was supposed to bring water and didn't well we're all going to go thirsty that day
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so what you try to do with intentional community bread is get a buy-in by every single member
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and each of them becomes an important cog in the success of the entire group i think it is the
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most elegant way of training i've ever done in my whole career we're going to take a quick break
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for your words from our sponsors and now back to the show all right so recap there for consistency
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sounds like make shark habits also have pirate maps but then also find a potential community that can
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help sort of everyone buys in everyone depends on each other and that can help encourage you to keep
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going uh even when you don't feel like going because you're like that guy depends on me yeah i mean if
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you're a musician i mean it's nice that you play in your your your basement all the time but i guarantee
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you will improve if you join an orchestra or a band well let's talk about this quadrant that i came
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across in your writing you got so much stuff out there oh because what i love about what you do too
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is you had these like i love these quadrants you create because it really helps you think about
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things that are easy to remember yeah so one quadrant is is how you can approach your diet and
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fitness and the quadrant's this you can have a reasonable workout tough diet reasonable workout
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reasonable diet a tough workout reasonable diet or tough workout tough diet so what do you think
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like for just like people who aren't even doing anything i mean what are they doing what quadrant are
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they in here well here's the problem you know one day you wake up fat and you decide and that's
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literally what i'm told all the time i woke up fat one day well like there could have been a process
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ahead of that but okay most people think that they can just light it up and go the tough workout tough
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diet now when i do workshops with this brett one of the first things i do is i ask the people
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you know what is a tough diet well let me you know certainly i'm a big i'm a big fan of fasting i
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think there's great value to it i like intermittent fasting hardest diet i've ever done was the
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velocity diet that's six protein shakes a day ask me brett what else what else yeah there's nothing
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you drink six protein shakes a day for 28 days folks that's a tough diet that's that's a tough
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one people think they can do the velocity diet and the soviet squat workout i did the soviet squat
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workout years ago in the front squat and one of the days calls for six sets of six and at the time
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i needed to use about 3 15 3 25 and when i racked the bar mark asked me what's wrong i go i gotta do
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that five more times it was brutal six sets of six with 3 15 in the front squat oh people think that
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they can do the soviet squat program and the velocity diet at the same time and that's literally
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impossible so the interesting thing though brett people seem to understand you know professionals
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in this field uh personal trainers coaches they know what tough diets are and they know what tough
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workouts are but when i follow up and i say okay folks what's a reasonable workout i mean dude it's
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crickets i don't know what's a reasonable diet uh uh eat uh carbohydrates protein and fat oh that's
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really insightful thank you sir when we get to the other side the reasonable reasonable where people
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should live i would say eight to ten months a year people don't even know what reasonable means anymore
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to me reasonable is when you do push pull hinge squat loaded carry in that 15 to 25 total rep range
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with loads that you know you can you know that you're building up on that's three sets of eight
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five sets of five with a reasonable weight three days a week you have a day for mobility only and then
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another day when you do something long a long walk a long bike a long hike that's reasonable did that
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sound reasonable i say yeah sounds reasonable yeah what's a reasonable diet well i think at every
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meal you should have vegetables boy does that throw people off vegetables at breakfast there is no it's
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not in the constitution it's okay with the un you can eat vegetables at every meal if you'd like
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vegetables and protein at every meal drink a lot of water that's what you should be doing the bulk of
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the time now there are times you like for example if you want to lock it up for you're going to go
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down to spring break and you want to show off everything that's when i would tighten up on the
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diet so that's maybe where you'd want to have a tough diet for maybe a month three weeks to six weeks six
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weeks will be the top end a month is usually about right where you lock the diet down now if you want
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to go low low whatever or do whatever it doesn't matter but we all know we all know at some level
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what that means we want to cut back on the total calories we probably want to cut back on some stupid
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food okay so reasonable workouts i'd still like you to lift three days a week go for that long walk
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to the mobility day and then have the tough diet there's other times where you'd really like to maybe
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light it up if you're especially if you're an athlete with some tough workouts maybe you're in an
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ultimate frisbee league or i don't know discus throw i don't know where maybe the month before
00:24:55.080
you get going you really want to amp up the number of workouts but to do that i think you should keep
00:25:01.180
your diet extremely reasonable tough workouts reasonable diet before you do something physical
00:25:09.420
like you're going to go climb mount olympus or mount rainier or something like that you really got
00:25:14.540
up your your training but i would keep very reasonable on the diet all right so mostly you're
00:25:19.620
going to stay in reasonable workout reasonable diet occasionally dip into reasonable workout tough
00:25:25.100
diet or tough diet reasonable workout right right i don't think you can ever actually do tough tough
00:25:32.520
that makes sense now now i have a buddy who was getting ready for the mr utah contest
00:25:38.940
and i helped him and it's still one of my favorite memories when he when his partner asked me to help
00:25:44.940
him i thought oh you want me to help because of my genius uh in no basically he wanted me to help him
00:25:51.520
by picking them up between sets and putting them back on the machine because he he was at about zero
00:25:58.740
calories doing very long workouts i've never seen anybody else ever do this before boy he looked good
00:26:04.620
under the lights he was just ripped to shreds but folks you might think you can cut like a bodybuilder
00:26:12.440
hate him or love bodybuilders watching those guys cut is very i mean it is just it's impressive it is
00:26:20.100
impressive and the one famous bodybuilding coach told me one time oh yeah it takes about 14 contests to
00:26:26.380
figure out how you should prep and i'm thinking about my buddy going he had to do that 13 more times to
00:26:32.640
figure it out yeah that's not the sport for me i want to be i'm going to just keep throwing the
00:26:37.220
discus and olympic lifting yeah holy cow so i just there are people who can do it uh they're not many
00:26:44.520
well so going back to this idea of like reasonable workout like you said a lot of one i think that's
00:26:50.020
kind of that can contribute to people giving up on exercise because they're not reasonable they
00:26:55.660
over complicate things they make things too hard and you're a big proponent of keeping it as super
00:27:01.840
easy and simple as possible and that reasonable workout you gave just a few movements and you
00:27:07.760
weren't destroying yourself like you weren't like going to failure every set it was just get stronger
00:27:14.140
go for a walk yeah i mean my math skills aren't what they used to be but if you lift three days a week
00:27:20.460
it comes out to like 156 workouts a year i think if you work out 156 times a year
00:27:27.620
and they're reasonable and repeatable you're going to be miles ahead of those clowns who just show up
00:27:34.860
the first week of january well so like one of the programs you have it's a simple one that you've
00:27:40.000
written about it's like the one two three program where it's just like you start like with one one rep
00:27:45.660
and then do all the movements like squat deadlift press and then it's two reps then three reps and
00:27:53.660
then you go three two one and that's it like you're not you're not killing yourself yeah you just every
00:27:58.660
rep is every rep is is fast you feel strong and it's it's a clean rep yeah and it's uh for example
00:28:06.900
you and i are going to do presses now there's two ways to do it you can do three two one or one two three
00:28:11.100
it just kind of depends on what you like but these are called ladders i got uh i think i think steve
00:28:16.740
shaftley is the master of these but i'm gonna do i'm gonna do two rounds of one two three so i put
00:28:24.920
on a load that i know i can do five four i do it for one then i look at you and go that's it yeah
00:28:30.060
that's it then i do two that's it yeah then i do three that's it then i do one that was easy
00:28:35.380
right because to get strong you need to train your nervous system so you want to repeat it's like
00:28:40.740
learning to type as i always explain to people when you first type you go click click click click
00:28:45.840
click click but pretty soon you figure out what those letters are and you go
00:28:51.560
that's the nervous system figuring out what you want to do well weightlifting starts off with the
00:28:59.380
nervous system kind of catching up to what you want and then there's that wonderful phrase rob wolf
00:29:04.440
uses the hormonal cascade when the body says we've got to get whatever's going on we've got
00:29:12.100
to get bigger and leaner and better and then that whoosh happens and all the good and all the magic
00:29:18.280
happens i think the best thing most people do could do is just get stronger you know i'm 63 brett and
00:29:26.220
i'm still the person you call when you move or you got a couch or a refrigerator to move
00:29:30.740
because strong people tend to be pretty helpful when it's time to move stuff and i think if you
00:29:37.360
get to a certain level of strength a lot of magic can happen and that magic is you you can make
00:29:44.440
yourself more flexible you can push through your mobility and of course you build up some lean body
00:29:50.700
mass that also counters the uh the uh adipose tissue the fat and and again like this is reasonable
00:29:57.580
like you're i think people have this idea with workouts you have to like feel like you're destroyed
00:30:01.340
after a workout right or you can't like you know you have your legs you can't walk after leg day
00:30:07.100
and you're kind of like no you actually have this idea is like easy strength workouts should they
00:30:12.020
should you should feel enthusiastic you should feel invigorated afterwards not like you've been
00:30:16.960
completely destroyed now you know brett i mean there is a time for those i mean hey i'm i i also tell
00:30:23.200
people you should be able to do 50 reps with your body weight in the back squat and then they go what
00:30:27.340
oh yeah i mean but it's that june of 1979 when you try to get your back squat high reps in i didn't
00:30:36.460
say it was for the 80s 90s aughts and teens of the new millennium there's a time and there is great value
00:30:45.580
in having those workouts where you can't climb up a flight of stairs but that's not what you do
00:30:50.640
week in week out month in month out because you can't you just you really can't do it all right
00:30:58.160
so you don't want to push yourself really hard all the time because that's that's not sustainable
00:31:01.120
but if you're having trouble getting started with working out or you don't know what to do
00:31:05.080
something that could help is take on a specific challenge you've come up a lot of challenges over
00:31:09.740
your career some of them a lot of them have gone viral and they've become viral again in the past
00:31:14.080
i would say few months and one that's come up again i think it's because of covid
00:31:18.120
is the 10 000 kettlebell swing challenge so let's talk about it when did you develop it
00:31:23.500
why did you develop it and what does it look like well it's it's funny because i never write an article
00:31:29.300
unless i've done it ever so i got a call from testosterone nation you know tnation.com and the
00:31:38.020
owner was really wanted me to do more articles on kettlebells and he threw out this thing why don't
00:31:44.820
you do like a 10 000 swing challenge and i said well that's a great idea of course what's the
00:31:51.000
problem brett when i said yes you've never done it before and you you don't know what's going to be
00:31:55.760
like i hadn't done it before so i had to so mike brown who still trains with me first day we picked
00:32:02.840
up the 24 kilo bells and did a thousand swings the first workout next day we come in and we're like
00:32:09.460
well that was a good one i get up to 800 swings and i say to mike i can't move my back didn't it
00:32:16.740
wasn't like i needed a spinal adjustment or anything my back was so full of blood i couldn't move and
00:32:23.560
then we kind of said you know a thousand a day is too many let's try 500 so on day three we did 500
00:32:31.300
now we had to make up one workout with 200 to fill on the other one but and so we finished the first
00:32:36.620
10 000 swing challenge and we were i mean i looked at my journals and my notes and it was all over the
00:32:44.200
place brett it was stupid and so okay let's try poor mike you gotta feel for the poor guy let's try
00:32:52.560
this and so i came up with these other ideas and finally i settled on what the original article was
00:32:59.540
you would do a set of 10 and then set of 10 and do like three push-ups a set of 15 do two push-ups
00:33:06.420
a set of 25 do one push-up and then that long set of 50 and you know and then rest and each day of
00:33:13.960
the week you you change the exercise push-up gobble squat pull-up it's something that complemented the
00:33:19.960
swing oh and one day nothing just swings and that was a good idea and that's what i published first
00:33:26.120
but very quickly i got so much feedback that i realized yeah i can do 50 swings with the 24 kilo
00:33:32.960
kettlebell but i'm kind of i'm not if you could just reach across the microphone and pat me on the
00:33:38.920
back i'd appreciate that but i hate to say it i'm a big engine and i know how to swing a kettlebell
00:33:44.580
so the 50 swings was tough but i could do it so then we came up with this 15 35 idea where after the
00:33:53.900
set of 15 you would do a strength movement or a hypertrophy movement and after the set of 35
00:34:00.120
a complimentary mobility movement and boy i came up with six different programs to support that
00:34:06.920
and i still think brett honestly that might be the best way to do it another way to do it that i love
00:34:15.240
this is probably okay i think the 15 35 with mixing the hypertrophy mobility that's really good because
00:34:22.660
you cover so many bases but my favorite way to do it is i pick up a bell i do 16 swings with it my grip
00:34:29.320
kind of goes i put it down next i pick it up and i go from 17 to 35 okay next i pick it up again i go
00:34:36.060
35 to 40 because something came up then i go 40 to 60 and you just build yourself up to the 500 swings
00:34:43.160
personally for the way my brain works that's my favorite method and at the end of the 20 workouts
00:34:49.280
you've accumulated 10 000 swings most people report real gains in their grip many people report fat loss
00:34:58.080
very common fat loss and a lot of people say weirdest thing everyone says i look better but
00:35:04.920
all i did was swing for 20 days yeah well you didn't know you didn't just swing you did 500 swings
00:35:10.860
and good things came from that so that's kind of the long story and so i've written two full articles
00:35:18.240
on the 10 000 swing challenge and i'm still surprised how much it still seems to resonate
00:35:25.120
with people by the way i would consider the 10 000 swing challenge in the area of a tough workout
00:35:31.840
so while you're doing that i would recommend having a reasonable eating program one time i tried it doing
00:35:39.860
a modified thing that dan and mary eats the protein power people had so i was doing three protein shakes a
00:35:46.340
day and eating a dinner okay and i did the 10 000 swing challenge doing that but honestly the wheels
00:35:53.180
started falling off the bumper came off pretty quickly on that that might have you need you need
00:35:58.400
to eat on this program brett normally then i imagine it's there's been a resurgence i mean because like
00:36:03.920
yeah people have been stuck at home they might just have a kettlebell that's all they got and so
00:36:07.740
they well i'll just do this thing because it doesn't take much much space and i can get it done
00:36:12.400
in my apartment and you know what a lot of people are discovering that home training like i've known
00:36:18.720
this my whole career i've been i've been training at home obviously i use gyms obviously there's no
00:36:22.760
question about that but since 1971 i've always had my own home gym actually it'd be a little bit
00:36:29.740
earlier i only started uh writing in my diary in march of 1971 but i had been lifting at home before
00:36:36.300
that it's when i got my adjustable incline bench that i started recording workouts and i'm glad i did
00:36:42.300
because i can tell you what i was doing almost every day of my life since march of 1971 what's
00:36:49.540
interesting about the home workouts and a lot of your listeners who kind of move to that a lot of the
00:36:57.000
excuses get knocked out of the way and there's also a weird kind of
00:37:07.560
brad i can't say this without coming off as kind of a jerk but i like to win the weight room
00:37:14.440
i like everybody to know that i'm the strongest person there okay i'm a horrible person i just said
00:37:19.600
now when i'm training at home i just do the workout i if the workout calls for three sets of
00:37:29.120
eight in the overhead squat that's what i do i don't get cute i don't add more i don't i do what
00:37:36.060
the workout says to do and that is a real gift of home training and the fact that you save all that
00:37:43.260
time in commuting which i'm not sure where you live exactly but if you know i don't you know even if
00:37:48.500
your gym is 10 minutes away that's a 20 minute that's 20 minutes out of your day commuting
00:37:53.020
versus you know and i gotta tell you in 20 minutes you can get a pretty good little workout
00:37:58.000
in heck 20 minutes is a lot of time yeah with the uh going back to the 10 000 kettlebell swing
00:38:03.460
challenge how do you figure out which which weight to use like how much weight to use on that
00:38:07.020
well i have this really highly scientific formula that a few people have actually tried it
00:38:13.540
it's in the articles but honestly in full candor if you're a male use a 24 if you're a female you
00:38:22.600
probably should use the 16 kilo 12 if you're truly light that's usually what it comes out to well
00:38:29.200
another piece of equipment that you can use i mean so a lot of people with the with covid they've been
00:38:33.120
trying to build home gyms but because everyone's been trying to do at the same time like gym equipment
00:38:37.000
is hard to come by but people have been able to get their hands on some dumbbells or even just a
00:38:41.720
single dumbbell and you say that's enough and like i mean so they can go to your site they can kind of
00:38:47.240
generate a workout with that but like kind of give us an idea if someone just had a single dumbbell
00:38:50.860
what could they do with that for a workout well a single dumbbell that's kind of i mean when my
00:38:59.260
in 1991 i had one of the world's best gyms to train at the upper limit here in murray and then one day
00:39:06.220
they closed i mean we had like nine olympic platforms and bumper plates everywhere and they
00:39:11.180
just shut down and so i had a rusty bar two 35 pound plates two 25 pound plates but then someone found
00:39:20.620
an old olympic dumbbell that i could slide those 25s on and when i first saw kettlebell snatches
00:39:29.000
i started doing dumbbell snatches well from the dumbbell snatches i i that's when i invented waiter
00:39:35.540
walks that's where you walk with the bell over your head right so i would do these dumbbell snatches
00:39:40.920
and then when i got tired i would walk you know so let's say i could do 15 dumbbell snatches i mean it
00:39:47.340
was 61 pounds so it's a it's a good amount of weight walk a little bit put the weight down switch hands
00:39:52.940
you can also do oh i mean with a dumbbell press press press press press and then we do a variation
00:39:59.960
when we do our heavy hands called the curl and press and i gotta tell you mike was telling me the
00:40:05.740
day about this these guys online they take a light bell be more like a 10 or 15 or 20 and they curl
00:40:12.860
and press curl and press for a couple hundred reps now i don't know if that's good or bad for you
00:40:20.220
but that's that's that's a lot of work man and i and sometimes that's that's all you need with the
00:40:29.220
single dumbbell i mean i would just go online and look up you know single dumbbell workouts they're
00:40:35.000
they're all over the place i have a whole book based on single kettlebell workouts it's going to be
00:40:41.160
the same thing goblet squat a fundamental swing uh curl and press the snatch waiter walks you can
00:40:48.800
do suitcase carries has one hander walks yeah there's there's plenty there's plenty to do a lot
00:40:54.560
to do yeah and and remember it's the will if you use your imagination you know you know don't let
00:41:01.260
the limitations bother you i mean so many times in my life i've been and i gotta tell you i think
00:41:08.900
this is my best coaching moments is and i have a phrase when i coach people deprivation increases
00:41:16.280
capacity when i was coaching at judge memorial we didn't have a discus ring we didn't have a field
00:41:22.300
to throw in yet we had nine straight state discus champions because i innovated we found a big wall
00:41:29.700
and threw power balls into a wall so if you only have something don't think of it as a bad thing think
00:41:37.160
it is a boon think it is i have the opportunity to use my brain to increase my training that's that's
00:41:45.020
i would hate to say i it's yeah i'm gonna say it's a gift it's an odd style of gift
00:41:50.420
so another exercise if you don't even have any equipment that's really effective to getting
00:41:54.880
strong is the pull-up you say yeah you say that every man should be able to do five pull-ups
00:42:00.420
there's a lot of guys who can't even do one so i mean how do you how do you work your way up to
00:42:05.620
doing more pull-ups if you can just barely do one sure yeah i have a whole program it's in my
00:42:11.460
new book attempts um by the way folks when i say this i'm not selling the stuff to you i'm just saying
00:42:16.340
this is where you can find it it's in my new book attempts and it's also in the dan john university
00:42:22.860
site it's called the post deployment program and i came up with this working with uh our uh elite
00:42:30.460
military forces oh and i love it by the way i love this program a lot the first month week one
00:42:37.680
okay week one you hang as long as you can a straight arm hang monday wednesday friday for example okay
00:42:45.780
week two you do two rounds of straight arm hang monday wednesday friday week three you do three rounds
00:42:52.180
and week four you do four rounds on the fifth week week one you do the bent arm hang okay either the
00:42:59.980
chin-up grip or the pull-up grip and you know week one once week twice twice week three three times
00:43:06.880
week four four times here's the funny thing there's a thing we joke about in my field all the time called
00:43:13.340
middle-aged pull-up syndrome okay and that's the pain and you could i'm pointing to it right now right in
00:43:21.420
that elbow when you try to you try to kill a set of pull-ups that you were not ready for okay well
00:43:29.920
by hanging both straight arm and bent arm with your your chin is over the top your body figures out how
00:43:41.120
to do it and then month three brett here's what you strive to do is that a month three hang for 30
00:43:49.180
seconds and do and then do one pull-up now for those people who've never done a pull-up i want to
00:43:56.040
guarantee it because that's i'm no joe namath in super bowl three but if by the third month with all
00:44:03.940
that hanging and all that time your grip has gone through the roof and your specific strength has gone
00:44:10.320
through the roof and then pop up and see if you get some pull-ups i had a guy who didn't follow my
00:44:16.000
sage advice and he decided oh about the sixth week of what i told you to do he was going to test
00:44:21.740
himself on pull-ups he had never done one how many does he do on week six of this program he does five
00:44:28.600
pull-ups because hanging is probably more important for most people who can't do pull-ups than actually
00:44:35.600
practicing the pull-up no hanging is like one of those overlooked movements i mean it's not a movement
00:44:39.900
but it's oh it can like i mean most of us we because of our office jobs that we have we're
00:44:44.760
hunched over a computer all the time and you know your your shoulder is like meant to go over your head
00:44:50.420
but we never given an opportunity to do that with and hanging can't let you do that in one of my recent
00:44:55.840
youtubes i give people a one minute daily mobility thing and it's 30 seconds of hanging and 30 seconds of
00:45:04.240
sitting in the bottom the goblet squat and if all you got is one minute do your okay here here's your
00:45:11.240
three minutes to somewhat happiness okay one minute of going over your to-do list and making sure you
00:45:17.820
have all the phone numbers and everything else you need for the day a one moment meditation 30 seconds
00:45:23.040
of hanging 30 seconds of the goblet squat bottom position go off in your day if you can't give me
00:45:28.460
three minutes i well first i think you're lying to me but that three minutes that that will be a game
00:45:33.880
changer for a lot of you listening well another thing you talk about throughout all your work
00:45:38.780
is you you encourage people to get outside and do their workouts why why that why why have you long
00:45:44.900
been an advocate for that i don't know maybe because that's a discus thrower and you can only throw
00:45:48.660
outside i guess uh no um i think you know brett i think when you go outside the the rules change a
00:45:56.100
little bit you know if you and i we're gonna we're gonna go we're gonna go there's a i'm right near a
00:46:01.440
big park called wheeler okay so you and i are we're gonna go over to wheeler farm and we're gonna
00:46:07.520
walk we're gonna put ankle weights on and we're gonna do a we're gonna walk around the park well
00:46:13.600
once we get there which is you know a half a mile from here we start walking and oh look there's some
00:46:19.820
birds and pretty soon and by the way i don't want you to have your uh your earbuds on we're just
00:46:26.840
gonna talk and oh there's a bird a sage jay i think they're called here in utah oh look there's
00:46:32.260
a cooper hawk oh there's a squirrel yay and what you begin to notice is that what you thought was
00:46:38.260
gonna be a 30 minute walk is an hour and 10 minute walk and then we gotta walk back that extra half an
00:46:44.800
hour when you go outside we become more playful and i think we become a little bit more human
00:46:51.480
and that's a good thing in my view yeah that's something you've talked about like that's that's
00:46:57.100
an important part of health maybe not fitness right fitness you're fit to do something you're fit to
00:47:02.040
lift way you're fit to run but if you're looking for overall health you need that engagement with
00:47:06.460
outdoors engagement with people that makes you feel good yeah let me let's go through a couple of
00:47:11.840
words real fast okay so the word health i use maffitone's definition the optimal interplay of the
00:47:18.620
human organs so and you you find out about your health through doctor visits through uh going to
00:47:25.500
the dentist uh getting those blood tests done that kind of thing fitness is the ability to do a task
00:47:32.660
and this is where we get ruined in my industry because people run with the word fitness too much
00:47:38.440
you know they try to make it oh if you if you can't you know do 10 muscle ups you're not fit no
00:47:45.080
muscle up is a test the third word is longevity and that's both quantitative and qualitative
00:47:52.680
discussions uh people in my family don't live long and it's just a fact i said that at a workshop last
00:47:59.120
year and someone came up to me after and said you know you shouldn't talk like that didn't know at the
00:48:03.940
time that my brother had just died so the next day same workshop i said this is breaking my heart my
00:48:10.760
brother died last night you know uh and the final one is what i do which my career is all about which
00:48:16.200
is performance and performance is when someone says your name and you step up and perform and the
00:48:23.080
mistake we get sometimes and by the way the tools of performance can help you in fitness the secrets of
00:48:30.060
longevity can help you in performance these four intertwine a lot but you also have to keep them
00:48:37.220
separate otherwise you get a little confused like for example saying that the fittest person on earth
00:48:43.120
won the iron man triathlon well that's not true he's fit for the iron man triathlon he can't throw
00:48:50.160
the discus 244 feet the fittest discus thrower of all time is jürgen schulte he threw 243 well someone
00:48:57.980
raised their hand goes well damn that's a weird definition no your your your definition is screwed up
00:49:03.560
because it's a task and if the task is you know i'm you know i don't know but if if you meet a guy
00:49:11.500
who's 106 and he became a father this year well first off god bless you and number two he might not
00:49:19.680
be fit to teach the kid how to drive but he was fit for the task of becoming a father you follow that and i
00:49:27.420
i think people miss that oh one other thing brett before i go whenever i go over those four a hand goes up
00:49:32.700
and says what about fat loss and i'm always like okay now and now of course the fat loss discussions
00:49:42.380
which yeah that's what everyone wants that's well that's why that's why most people like i'm gonna
00:49:46.160
exercise i got i got the spare tire want to lose some weight got to get rid of it and and fat loss
00:49:51.860
mostly happens in the kitchen and i quote this all the time but years ago a woman raised her hand at one
00:49:57.700
of art devaney's workshops and she says how do you get rid of fat and he famously said don't get fat in
00:50:03.740
the first place and i think one of the things you can do with your site brett and i'm not telling you
00:50:08.240
what to do but having honest conversations about the teenage and 20 somethings buying into you don't
00:50:16.680
want to put on that freshman 40 you know you don't want to do the pizza and beer diet you really it's
00:50:23.380
it's i'm 63 and little danny did a nice job staying in fairly good shape his whole life
00:50:31.800
and and i have to applaud him for it because it allows me to do certain things at 63 that i
00:50:38.140
otherwise would have him do other things at this age to undo the damage of my idiocy of my youth
00:50:43.860
well let's listen i mean so don't get fat in the first place let's say but let's say you are fat
00:50:48.540
it's just it's basically a lot of it's nutrition anything when exercise that you can do to help
00:50:53.500
with that yeah yeah here's the thing now what's going to happen when you go to a workshop but it
00:50:58.620
happens quite a bit and i deal with this all the time someone is going to say the nutritionist will
00:51:04.180
say fat loss is 95 nutrition and by the way that's true up to a point they did a very interesting
00:51:13.340
study now the study is still being replicated because it's new but they had people who averaged
00:51:19.360
10 000 steps a day for no reason just cut back this is the study you're only going to walk 2 000
00:51:26.280
steps a day within weeks brett these people who had been active in fact they had to stop the study
00:51:34.540
because they were already sliding into type 2 diabetes they were already falling into some other
00:51:41.180
blood profile issues it was a very short amount of time so yeah on paper what we do in the gym is
00:51:49.740
only five percent fat loss okay i get that however not exercising instantly almost turns you in to a
00:51:58.200
person with issues with blood profiles insulin and all the other hormones so what you need to do if
00:52:06.960
you just you wake up one day and you find yourself fat uh is you want to you want to do some hypertrophy
00:52:13.560
work okay you want to do some bodybuilding you really want to you want to do some mobility work
00:52:19.860
because mobility also assists you in keeping things going okay so the basic idea is just three to five times
00:52:28.240
a week do a mix of basic hypertrophy is the bodybuilding numbers in the strength of the world okay so that's
00:52:35.520
15 to 25 maybe 30 total reps that's three sets of eight five sets of five five sets of three
00:52:40.960
push pull hang squat low to carry do mobility exercises between each set that's what i recommend
00:52:46.620
and then the moment you get done with that go for a walk i use heavy hands i put ankle weights around my
00:52:53.880
ankles and i take these three pound weights i go for a half an hour to 45 minutes you certainly could go
00:53:00.180
longer but what happens is what you're trying to do is free up fatty acids and you do that in the
00:53:05.400
weight workout and then that gentle walk after your body then uses the free fatty acids to eat
00:53:12.780
and it's win-win but really what's going to happen is it's going to be on the nutrition side you cannot be
00:53:18.840
getting calories from liquids so i mean coffee tea water water water water water you know i would suggest
00:53:27.460
just vegetables at every meal protein at every meal and uh it's it's worked a million times and
00:53:33.060
it's going to work again if you go to dan john university that's the uh workout the fat loss
00:53:39.240
workout generator will plug all that in for you on the nutrition side i would add one other thing if
00:53:46.260
you don't mind brett i just cannot believe the more i read and read the destruction of the enteric system
00:53:53.400
which we also call the gut biome through antibiotics through all the stuff that's in certain foods i
00:54:01.740
guess some of the sweeteners the artificial sweeteners are just hard on the gut biome i strongly
00:54:08.140
recommend eating sauerkraut fermented foods once or twice a day i eat it now at every meal i make my own
00:54:16.060
sauerkraut i make my own pickled vegetables because the fermented food is can be such a game changer
00:54:23.380
to build up that gut biome everyone makes fun of it my daughters my daughter's called the butt guy
00:54:30.000
which it makes me mad because i say butt guy more often now than i say gut biome but uh it's it i really
00:54:38.780
think it's a missing link for many of us it's really something people should consider well dan this has
00:54:46.200
been a great conversation so i guess people can go to dan john university find out more information about
00:54:50.020
what you're doing yeah yeah absolutely and don't forget listeners there's a discount code for you
00:54:57.100
art of man and that'll give you instead of 29 bucks a month that'll give you uh three months for 29 bucks
00:55:03.780
which is a pretty good deal considering the number of things you can download oh we've got to have
00:55:09.040
almost 20 plus books on there and tons of articles great forum a really good forum uh i know i'm selling
00:55:17.080
it but i i only sell things i believe in so there you go okay awesome well dan john thanks for your
00:55:23.460
time it's been absolute pleasure absolute pleasure let's do this sooner than later next time okay
00:55:27.900
sounds good my guest today was dan john you can find out more information about his work at his
00:55:33.400
website danjohnuniversity.com also use that discount code art of man give you uh that discount that he
00:55:38.800
mentioned in the podcast and you also check out our show notes aom.is slash simple strength
00:55:43.000
where you find links to resources we delve deeper into this topic
00:55:45.440
well that wraps up another edition of the aom podcast check out our website at art of manliness.com
00:55:56.780
where you find our podcast archives well as thousands of articles written over the years and if you'd like
00:56:00.460
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something out of it as always thank you for the continued support until next time it's brett mckay
00:56:26.520
reminding you not only listen to aom podcast but put what you've heard into action