The Art of Manliness - September 05, 2014


#80 Huckberry With Andy Forch and Richard Greiner

Topics
Huckberry entrepreneurship leather business niche passion and success in entrepreneurship starting a successful business Huckberry events and communities
Hosted by
Brett McKay
Mentioned
Huckberry Rich Mike Tyson John Gaffney Annie Jason Kate Etsy
#79： On Killing & On Combat With Lt. Col. Dave Grossman #81 Target Focus Training With Tim Larkin

Episode Stats


Length

51 minutes

Words per minute

200.18

Word count

10,270

Sentence count

573

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of the Art of Manliness podcast, Brett McKay sits down with the co-founders of Huckberry, Andy Forch and Richard Greiner, to talk about how they built a successful online product company.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
00:00:19.760 So if you've been visiting the site for the past few years, you're probably familiar with
00:00:24.080 the company called Huckberry. It's an online e-commerce store company that sells products
00:00:30.780 and gears directed towards men who happen to like doing sort of outdoor adventure stuff.
00:00:38.200 We do a weekly giveaway with them. We do a curated shop with them at the holidays and at Father's Day.
00:00:43.480 We're an affiliate of them. We're business partners of them. So anytime you make a purchase
00:00:47.540 through our Huckberry link, we make a small percentage from that and that helps support
00:00:52.060 the website and everything that goes along with it. Anyways, I wanted to bring on the two co-founders
00:00:57.320 of Huckberry to share their story of how they started Huckberry because it's a really, it's a
00:01:02.680 really cool story of a successful bootstrap startup. Andy Forch, Richard Greiner, they started Huckberry
00:01:09.040 when they were relatively young, mid twenties, out of their apartment. And now it's grown into this
00:01:14.500 large business in about four or five years where they have an office and a warehouse and they're
00:01:20.460 employing over a dozen different people to do their job to fulfill their, their sales.
00:01:26.120 So I want to get them on to share their story of how they started a successful business. Cause I know
00:01:31.120 a lot of you listening to the podcast are wanting to do that, become entrepreneurs, start your own
00:01:35.500 business. So I wanted to have Andy and Richard share their story and their insights and their mistakes
00:01:40.760 they made along the way. So you can get something from it. Also, I wanted to get their insights
00:01:45.260 about something. I get stuff sent to me all the time from brands and people who are wanting to
00:01:51.800 start some sort of male lifestyle product brand or whatever. And Huckberry gets that a hundred times
00:01:57.100 more. And I wanted to get Richard and Andy's insight on what separates the winners and losers from
00:02:03.480 companies or brands wanting to sell a product that's directed towards men. So if you've had sort of
00:02:11.100 an idea kicking around and starting a men's lifestyle product brand or whatever, uh, you'll want to
00:02:16.800 listen to this cause you'll get some really good insights. I think from some people who know firsthand
00:02:20.880 on, on what, what makes a successful, uh, a successful brand or product. Anyways, uh, it's really
00:02:27.220 fascinating. It's, it's all about entrepreneurship, all about being starting a successful business. I think
00:02:31.780 if that's something you want to do, you're going to get a lot out of this podcast. So let's do this.
00:02:36.000 All right, Richard and Andy, welcome to the show. Thanks, Brett. Uh, pleasure to be with you, bud.
00:02:45.940 Likewise. Thanks, Brett. All right. Just so we know who I'm talking to, uh, can you be like,
00:02:50.840 Hey, this is Andy and, or Hey, this is Richard. Uh, so, so this is Andy and, uh, Richard has the,
00:02:57.500 the radio voice. So there's really no mistaking the, uh, the two of us. Yeah. Hey, Brad Richard here.
00:03:02.780 And, um, I'd say Andy has the TV anchor face. All right. So you guys are the founders of Huckberry
00:03:11.180 and, uh, if you have been reading the site for a few years, you guys know who Huckberry is. We do a
00:03:16.860 giveaway with them every week. Uh, we're, we've been a partner with them for a while back. So I'm
00:03:21.660 really excited to have you guys on the show to talk about, uh, how Huckberry started, talk about being
00:03:27.200 entrepreneurs, talk about the war stories of starting your own business, uh, in the mail and men's
00:03:32.760 lifestyle, uh, genre, and, uh, maybe get some cool insights about this really cool company you
00:03:39.000 guys started. Yeah, absolutely. Let's do it. All right. So let's get a little background on you
00:03:44.040 because you guys are, you guys are young guys, uh, relatively speaking. Um, what did you guys
00:03:49.560 do before Huckberry? How old are you? Uh, why did you start Huckberry? Uh, yeah, Brett, uh,
00:03:56.200 Richard here. Um, so I was just telling somebody the story about this earlier today and, you know,
00:04:03.080 Andy and I followed very identical life paths. Um, we both went to school on the East coast.
00:04:09.320 I went to Villanova and he went to UVA. We both graduated in 2007 and were sort of funneled to
00:04:16.760 New York city. Um, as we were both working in finance at that time, um, which at that point in
00:04:23.000 time was, you know, sort of still the hot thing to work in. Um, I actually got transferred out to
00:04:28.000 San Francisco, um, and I think March of 2008 and Andy got transferred out here in August of 2008
00:04:37.480 and didn't know each other, same exact path and, and, and met at a mutual friends party out here and
00:04:43.780 just sort of became, became good friends. And, um, you know, we're, we were active and outdoorsy and,
00:04:48.660 you know, we, um, you know, we're on a ski trip one time and you start throwing out throwing around
00:04:54.460 ideas with your buddies and, you know, you've done it a hundred times and you never think one of
00:04:58.040 these will take hold. And one of those ideas sort of took, took hold. And, um, you know,
00:05:02.760 I can let Andy kind of dive in a little bit more of the specifics here, but it was just one of those
00:05:06.660 things where, you know, you're, you're, you're messing around. You've had some drinks one night and
00:05:10.300 the next thing, you know, uh, you're quitting your jobs to, to, to, to sort of dive in headfirst.
00:05:14.940 Yeah. And, and, you know, just to piggyback on that, Brett, uh, it's Andy speaking. Um,
00:05:21.560 one of the funny things that Rich and I figured out after the fact is, uh, when I moved to San
00:05:25.480 Francisco, we lived on the same block. And before we met at a, uh, a party that one of our buddies
00:05:31.240 hosted, I think it was around like great white sharks. He was like a great white shark photographer
00:05:36.020 hosted a party. Uh, that was when Rich and I met. Um, we found out that we actually lived on the same
00:05:41.240 block in New York, uh, and didn't know each other. So, I mean, we, we literally pretty,
00:05:45.800 you know, we had pretty identical pasts just, uh, all the way through starting Huckberry. And then,
00:05:50.720 you know, now I like to joke, I'm, I'm basically, I have two marriages, uh, married to my wife and
00:05:56.180 married to Richard. So, uh, life has converged even more. Do you guys argue like you're married?
00:06:03.040 Yeah. At times.
00:06:04.100 And, and, you know, honestly, like, I think just like you learn in marriage, like learning how to
00:06:09.700 resolve, uh, you know, resolve problems and, and how do you speak to each other and how do you
00:06:14.940 reinforce each other? Like it's just as important, uh, in a business partnership as it is in a marriage.
00:06:20.920 So, yeah. Okay. So you guys were in finance. Uh, how old were you at the time right before you guys
00:06:26.120 started doing the Huckberry thing? I think we were 25, 26. Yeah. So we, we were pretty young.
00:06:33.660 Um, we, we had both been analysts, uh, at investment banks and, you know, after you sort of do your
00:06:39.320 three years, which, which feel like dog years, um, you know, you have to figure out, do you want
00:06:44.340 to sort of stay in the game and, and, you know, grind it out and, and build a career or not. And,
00:06:49.740 you know, San Francisco is just so different from New York. Um, I, I was staying in corporate housing,
00:06:55.260 um, in, in, in sort of the same corporate housing where a lot of the Y Combinator guys were like
00:07:00.640 the, the first class or two. So I think founder of Dropbox was in there, uh, a bunch of other guys
00:07:06.420 and, you know, the, the whole, the spirit of San Francisco is all around entrepreneurship and,
00:07:12.200 you know, being sort of the, the finance guy or, uh, you know, I'll take a shot at you, Brett,
00:07:17.600 you know, the lawyer guy, um, you, you know, you're sort of the, uh, the, the butt of, of many
00:07:24.040 different, uh, of many jokes and, and, you know, everyone celebrates entrepreneurship. So for us,
00:07:28.920 we kind of had to make a decision, um, you know, as far as kind of what path to go down
00:07:34.200 and it just made it that much easier being out here because, uh, everyone, you know, all our friends
00:07:39.440 were kind of supporting it. I think if we were still in New York and, and, you know, had, had come up
00:07:43.700 with an idea to start, uh, a business in an industry, uh, we had absolutely, you know, no
00:07:49.740 experience in, um, you know, we probably would have been, you know, laughed out of the room,
00:07:56.080 but I think here, you know, San Francisco, they, they, uh, sort of support that. Yeah. All right.
00:08:01.440 So, uh, you guys started talking, you guys met at a party, started talking, then you became a
00:08:05.280 friends, um, just kind of share the common interest in outdoor stuff. Uh, so how did, I mean,
00:08:12.000 where did the idea of Huckberry come from me? How did you guys generate this idea of,
00:08:15.040 we're going to create this? Well, before we get there, for those who aren't familiar with Huckberry,
00:08:18.840 can you kind of just give the, the elevator pitch of what Huckberry is? Cause sometimes it's like,
00:08:22.860 it's hard to explain. Like when people ask me like, what's Huckberry, I'm like, uh, it's kind
00:08:26.900 of hard to explain to folks if, unless they see. Yeah. Yeah. It, uh, it is, you know, hard to explain.
00:08:33.300 I think, um, you know, at our core, we're an online shop and journal for guys. Um, you know,
00:08:38.280 the way I like to sort of explain it is, uh, you know, we're out there trying to
00:08:41.960 find the next Patagonia before it's Patagonia. Um, you know, these really cool emerging brands
00:08:47.280 are doing great things. They're, they're doing it the right way. Um, you know, they're, they're
00:08:51.580 creating great products. Uh, you know, as much as possible, we love brands where, uh, you know,
00:08:56.260 they make their product here in the U S. Um, so that's sort of the kind of what it all boils down
00:09:02.280 to. I think the thing that, you know, Rich and I use to kind of, uh, you know, steer the ship here
00:09:08.160 is, is sort of our unofficial mission statement, which should probably put our heads together and
00:09:12.920 make it official at some point or put a little more thought into it, but it's basically to inspire
00:09:17.080 more active, adventurous and stylish lives and, and to do that through content and commerce.
00:09:22.760 Uh, so you guys are sort of like curators in a lot, in a sense.
00:09:26.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, for us, like the, the real, uh, you know,
00:09:32.040 the real value that we provide with these brands is just being storytellers. You know,
00:09:35.140 they have such great storytelling. They have such great stories to tell makes our life really easy
00:09:39.720 and just, um, you know, giving them, uh, sort of more reach across the country. And, and that's
00:09:45.820 sort of the, the, the genesis of Huckberry in many ways was that we saw, you know, all these really
00:09:50.600 cool brands that had like cult followings in like San Francisco or New York, uh, or, or in the Midwest.
00:09:58.260 Um, and you know, they're just making great product and they just really didn't have sort of
00:10:02.200 distribution. Um, and, and so we kind of saw the opportunity to, to get in there and, you know,
00:10:08.440 highlight a lot of these brands and, and show our East coast friends, you know, what everyone's doing
00:10:12.380 on the, on the, uh, on the West coast and, you know, Rich is from the Midwest. And so he, you know,
00:10:17.520 he knew about a bunch of brands and was kind of plugged in there. Um, so it really is at our core,
00:10:22.620 we're discovery. Very cool. Um, so you guys got this idea, you saw a need for, uh, curation or
00:10:29.800 helping people get the word out about these really cool brands. How long did it take to
00:10:34.240 take that idea and turn it into an actual business? Um, it's a good question. Ultimately
00:10:43.960 from sort of date, we quit our jobs and were able to fully commit to the idea until Huckberry
00:10:50.740 was live was, you know, five or six months all in. Um, I think we had figured out the general
00:10:58.260 sort of business plan and route we were going to take, you know, in a couple of months. And then
00:11:05.220 from there it was sort of technical building the website, figuring out, um, you know, all the
00:11:12.080 logistics behind running an e-commerce business and that sort of thing that, that was, um, part of
00:11:18.600 the, the reason it took us six months instead of two or three. Um, you know, and that was, you know,
00:11:24.420 called a little over four years ago. So it's, it's interesting. The world's become much, much
00:11:30.720 sort of simpler to get a, to start a brand or an e-commerce site. So, you know, I think realistically
00:11:37.040 you could probably be, you know, three or four months. Uh, it took us six and that's partially
00:11:41.840 because of when we started it. And then also having, you know, pretty much zero technical
00:11:47.020 knowledge and just figuring out things as we go along. Um, so six months all in for us, but you
00:11:52.420 probably do it less. All right. So you guys actually quit your jobs before you started
00:11:57.480 getting into this heavy. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. You, you gotta go all in. Um, you know,
00:12:04.280 I think some people can kind of do it on the, on the side, but you know, you get to that point
00:12:09.540 where you kind of have to, you know, burn the boats on the beach, so to speak. And, and, you
00:12:14.820 know, just, just sort of dive all in, especially for something as involved as, you know, an e-commerce
00:12:19.860 site. Um, and particularly our model, which, you know, our model isn't, you know, make
00:12:24.800 a shirt and sell it and, and just put another, you know, order for that shirt and, and, you
00:12:29.420 know, sell the next batch. Like, you know, the Huckberry site refreshes, you know, multiple
00:12:34.260 times during the week. And it's just so involved that there is just no way we could have, you
00:12:39.220 know, um, you know, moonlighted, moonlighted the project. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so, okay.
00:12:44.900 Did you guys have any experience in retail before this or did you have to like sort of
00:12:48.860 learn on the fly? We learned 100% on the fly. So I think this sort of taking a quick step
00:12:57.860 back, one of the sort of genesis is, um, on the customer or user side is, is, um, that
00:13:06.840 we didn't think that any commerce or shopping sites really spoke to us. Um, very often, you
00:13:14.200 know, the shop, shopping sites are going to be for really high end, you know, $5,000 suit
00:13:19.520 type people or, uh, sort of the, the, the really high end outdoor performance. I'm climbing
00:13:25.640 Mount Everest and sort of super technical. And, you know, Andy and I were sort of the, the,
00:13:30.840 the, the everyday guys, the guys in the middle that just weren't being sort of weren't being
00:13:35.380 properly served and weren't being sort of spoken to from, from the commerce side. Um, so,
00:13:41.300 you know, that was really, um, sort of a, a, a big part of it for us.
00:13:46.520 And, and, and, you know, Brett, to kind of piggyback on that, um, you know, it's funny in
00:13:51.800 that I, I think, you know, there are brands out there like Polar, which, which, uh, I know
00:13:56.520 you're familiar with who, who basically sort of, you know, built their model around that.
00:14:00.340 Like, you know, um, most people like up until like kind of the Polar movement, I would sort
00:14:06.480 of call it, you know, um, and there are a bunch of other brands like Polar now, but, um, you
00:14:11.200 know, it was all like Everest, this Everest, that, and like most guys were like, no, you
00:14:15.060 know, I actually just want to like go into the backwoods and like go camping with my family
00:14:19.380 this weekend or, or, you know, with my buddies. Um, and so we definitely saw kind of the convergence
00:14:24.500 of, of what we call like urban and outdoor that, you know, there are these brands out there
00:14:29.160 that were really tailored to guys who, you know, lived in the city or in the suburbs, but,
00:14:33.740 you know, loved the outdoors. And, uh, you know, a funny story that we always like tell
00:14:37.760 is, is Rich went to, um, I think, was it SIA or outdoor retailer? One of these big, uh,
00:14:44.500 outdoor trade shows, uh, trying to go, you know, sign up all these brands and kind of
00:14:48.800 sell them on Huckberry. And he had no site. We didn't have a site that was live. The only
00:14:54.220 thing that we had was, uh, I picked up a, um, Photoshop for dummies book and I made us, uh,
00:14:59.040 some pretty slick business cards. Uh, so he's, he's walking around, you know, to all
00:15:03.280 these like big brands like Patagonia and the North face, you know, trying to get them signed
00:15:07.460 up and just kind of getting laughed away. And, uh, the one sort of relationship, uh, should
00:15:13.400 give you more credit. I'm sure you, uh, develop more relationships than just one, but the one
00:15:17.900 that was sort of meaningful was, was Benji, the founder of Polar, um, who at that point didn't
00:15:23.160 have any product, uh, on his side, he just had these heat bags. So, uh, I think Rich exchanged
00:15:28.120 a heat bag for one of his slick, uh, business cards. Um, and, you know, just kind of had
00:15:34.260 like a similar viewpoint and it's become one of our, you know, best relationships.
00:15:38.720 That's awesome. So, okay. So it sounds like you learned Photoshop on your own because you
00:15:43.720 guys do all the graphic stuff for our Huckberry things.
00:15:46.300 Yeah. So, so, you know, the, the, the genesis of it was, you know, Rich and I had this idea.
00:15:50.980 We love gear, saw the opportunity. I had no experience in retail. Um, you know, obviously we're
00:15:57.380 not, you know, technical, uh, uh, founders either. And so we partnered with, um, Richard's
00:16:05.860 Yeah. Childhood, childhood's friend's little brother who was getting his, um, his computer
00:16:13.900 science degree at Berkeley at Berkeley. He moon, moonlit with us and helped us sort of build
00:16:20.120 out Huckberry 1.0, get the site, um, off the ground. And, uh, the perspective that we took
00:16:26.540 was, you know, let's get something, you know, nicely put together, but it's more important
00:16:31.380 to get the site launch, get product out there and start getting feedback from people, um,
00:16:36.600 from people and from brands and suppliers. Um, which I think is one really big, really big
00:16:42.840 key for, um, for startups and entrepreneurialism, which is, um, you know, this, this model that
00:16:48.780 we live by and it's called, uh, you always throw out your first pancake. So, so, so get,
00:16:53.320 get cooking. Yeah. And so it was really about getting a product out there, getting Huckberry
00:16:58.600 started and, and then the feedback you get from your customers is infinitely more valuable
00:17:06.080 than showing a website to your friends, to advisors and getting, getting feedback from
00:17:11.080 them. So it was really about, let's get a, let's get a pretty good product out there and
00:17:15.460 get it launched and then kind of refined from there. And, uh, Brett, you know, you know,
00:17:22.200 this, like, so, so rich, rich and I kind of in our like finance group of friends, we're
00:17:27.680 sort of like, you know, one of the very few entrepreneurs. We get every sort of, I have
00:17:31.480 an idea. Can I talk about it? Um, you know, email that's out there and, you know, many of
00:17:36.600 them are sort of in business school and, um, you know, the real world as we like to call
00:17:43.640 it is just so, so different from business school where, you know, you're in business
00:17:47.320 school, you have an idea. Um, you know, you, you basically, you pitch it to the class and
00:17:52.000 you're, and it's sort of a safe place, right? Like you're pitching the business and, and
00:17:56.360 you're in an environment where the teachers are being paid to listen to you and the students
00:18:00.080 are being paid to provide, uh, you know, provide feedback. And then you get into the real
00:18:04.920 world and it's like, I remember when we were sort of, uh, you know, pitching Huckberry
00:18:09.060 to people, they just don't even respond to the email. Um, and so that really does show
00:18:14.280 the importance of just like putting a product out there and letting, letting people vote
00:18:17.720 with their wallets. And, and at some point, you know, you kind of have to stand on, on
00:18:21.220 your own two feet. That's, that's awesome. Uh, I love the, the, the pancake. You throw
00:18:26.120 out your first pancake cause that's true. I throw out my first pancake. Um, and you guys,
00:18:30.520 there's something I think a lot of people don't know as well is that you guys handle most
00:18:34.180 of the shipping as well, right? Yep. Yeah, we do. Which was, it first started off as,
00:18:40.960 um, you know, Annie and I shipping out of our apartments, which was, uh, you know, girlfriends
00:18:46.740 and wives weren't too happy about that one, but we basically had a schedule where we knew 1.00
00:18:52.000 the mail pickup was, you know, five, five o'clock in the, in the afternoon and at three o'clock
00:18:58.180 pencils down everybody. And we'd start packing boxes and run them over to the, to the post office
00:19:03.720 before it, before it closed for the, for the nightly shipment. Um, and it went from shipping,
00:19:09.220 you know, five packages a day to 10 packages a day. And now we're shipping, you know, sometimes
00:19:14.240 thousands of packages a day. That's crazy. And you guys have like, I don't know, you guys have
00:19:18.880 upgraded since I've last saw you. Um, but well, last time I was in San Francisco a few years ago
00:19:24.920 and I went, you had like a garage and it was insane. It was just like packages everywhere. And you
00:19:29.240 have like a team who handles, and that's like, you know, if someone who's got, I'm just
00:19:33.580 gotten started in e-commerce. I know like the shipping and fulfillment. That's like, that's
00:19:36.980 really complex and complicated. A lot of people, when they get in, they want to start an online
00:19:40.900 business where they're selling a product. They think that, oh, it's going to be easy,
00:19:44.080 but it's, it's a lot more, it's, it's tricky. It's hard.
00:19:48.120 Yeah, it's very tricky. And that's, that's one of the things that's one of the, one of the
00:19:53.700 biggest challenges to growing a, a larger e-commerce business is figuring those sort of operational
00:20:00.920 and fulfillment, um, figuring out those problems. And, you know, you don't, you don't think about
00:20:06.480 it, but once you go from shipping 10 packages a day to a hundred packages a day, your customer
00:20:11.780 service inbounds will, will 10 X and you have to start figuring that out. And then, yeah,
00:20:17.260 it really becomes quite challenging to figure out the logistics and operational side. Um, but
00:20:23.740 it's something where, you know, if orders start coming in, you're going to, you're going to figure
00:20:28.860 it out. So it's, again, um, you know, learning, sort of learning by fire and throwing out that
00:20:35.060 pancake as you grow, as you grow. All right. So you guys, uh, you said you started four years
00:20:39.360 ago. So it was like 2010, you guys officially went into business. Uh, it was May, 2011, May,
00:20:44.940 2011. Yeah. We, we quit our jobs in I think September or October of 10 and then launched the site
00:20:52.420 April, 2011, April 7. All right. So it was just you two at the beginning, uh, shipping stuff out of
00:20:58.360 your apartments. Uh, how big is your team now? So we've got, call it, um, about 16 of us in the
00:21:11.700 office, maybe 17, depending on how you count part-time people. And then another dozen or
00:21:17.300 so that are working in our warehouse. So close to close to 30 people between sort of, you know,
00:21:24.200 full-time and, and, and part-time and then warehouse staff. That's crazy. Well, that's
00:21:30.120 amazing. That's phenomenal. Uh, that you guys have gotten so big, so fast. All right. I know early on
00:21:35.280 guys that you didn't, uh, take venture capital, uh, to start your business. And I know you guys are in
00:21:41.180 San Francisco. You're talking about the whole idea of, you know, it's entrepreneurship is really big
00:21:44.860 in that area. And a big part of that culture is like, everyone wants venture capital. Everybody wants
00:21:50.160 that money for their startup. Um, why didn't you, why did you guys make that decision not to take
00:21:55.680 venture capital? I, you know, I, I think, Brett, I, I, there's sort of a few things when we were sort
00:22:02.400 of, uh, you know, standing on the ledge of, of, of whether to jump into this or not. I think one of
00:22:09.660 the, the sites and blogs we read a lot and that we really subscribed to was, uh, 37 signals. And I guess
00:22:16.340 their blogs called signals versus noise. Uh, and, and, um, the founder Jason freed, uh, has since
00:22:22.280 written a few books, um, rework. I think there's like one or two others and he's just a huge fan
00:22:28.800 of, of sort of bootstrapping your business. And, and, you know, I think it was, it was sort of in
00:22:35.580 our DNA and that like, you know, we graduated from school, went into a white collar job, but I think we
00:22:40.140 have a pretty like blue collar mentality when it comes down to it. And that we both, both love getting
00:22:44.320 our hands dirty and kind of rolling up our sleeves and, and, you know, picking up Photoshop for
00:22:48.860 dummies that, you know, that's how we designed the site and, and just doing things really, really
00:22:53.180 cheaply. Um, so I think, you know, that was sort of, and, and, you know, honestly, we were pretty
00:23:00.660 lucky to choose a business model where, um, you know, we could sort of afford to do that. And that,
00:23:05.660 you know, like if you're starting, um, you know, a button, a button down or, you know, a button down
00:23:10.940 t-shirt company, um, and, you know, your, your sort of capital requirements are that, you know,
00:23:17.320 you have to pay money six months before you can actually, you know, to, to buy the fabric and get
00:23:22.480 it, you know, cut and sewn. And then, you know, you, you launch it to the public and, and, uh, you
00:23:28.020 know, your cashflow cycles, you're getting paid, you know, six months after you cut that first check.
00:23:32.760 Uh, we were lucky in that, you know, starting in the beginning, um, it was, you know, primarily
00:23:37.480 sort of a pre-sale model with our customers. So it was a combination of, of, um, you know,
00:23:42.760 wanting to kind of control our own destiny, which is what boots, bootstrapping allows you to do,
00:23:46.660 uh, choosing a business that sort of allowed us to bootstrap and those bootstrap friendly.
00:23:51.280 Um, I think one of the things we say, you know, to every entrepreneur is like, if you can, you know,
00:23:56.000 if you can afford to bootstrap your business, um, absolutely do it. We're, we're huge fans of it,
00:24:00.980 but we also recognize that it's, it's one, it's not for every model. It's not for every person.
00:24:05.280 And, you know, they're absolutely, um, you know, some, some, some trade-offs in that,
00:24:11.460 you know, we, we, uh, definitely grow a lot slower than, um, you know, than, than we could.
00:24:18.260 And, you know, part of that is just risk tolerance, but, but also, you know, if we raise money,
00:24:22.560 it would be, uh, you know, kind of pedal to the metal. Um, but I don't know, it's like,
00:24:28.620 I think in many ways, it's particularly early on, you're just trying to like,
00:24:31.720 you know, find your niche and find your voice and find yourself and find the business. And I think
00:24:36.740 it was nice, not raising venture capital and sort of being forced to just
00:24:40.700 grow like crazy when maybe you're not even growing the right business, you know?
00:24:46.080 Very interesting. And, uh, do you guys still get approached? I'm sure you guys get approached by
00:24:49.060 people who want to, uh, a stake in the business. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean, it's so
00:24:54.760 cool. I mean, it's just, it's a, it's a really cool model you guys have going. Um, but it's,
00:24:58.480 it's great. You've maintained that control, um, and I've grown at your own pace. Um,
00:25:03.960 so you started in 2011, uh, and at this time there were sort of sites like yours that were
00:25:10.500 popping up, like these sort of curated membership deal sites where, you know, you sign up and every
00:25:15.560 week there's like a new lineup and you get, you know, some discounts. Um, like there's guilt and
00:25:21.180 I forgot some of the other ones, but it's all seem to pop up at the same time. And, uh,
00:25:26.120 so how did you guys set yourself apart, uh, from the pack? And I think you've kind of,
00:25:30.980 you know, uh, referenced it a little bit in your conversation, but how did, what did you
00:25:34.520 guys do to make yourselves different from all those other curated store sites?
00:25:41.240 Yeah. So I think there's a, there's a couple of things, Brad. Uh, first off is when, from day
00:25:47.180 one of starting Huckberry, we always wanted to sort of tell the story of our brand partners
00:25:51.820 first. So we weren't all about putting product in your face and just, and just being pushy
00:25:58.160 and product focused. We were about, let's go find really cool people that are doing really
00:26:03.100 cool things and making awesome products and leading with telling that story. So I think
00:26:08.820 our focus, you know, has always been story first and let's, let's sort of get behind why
00:26:15.740 we love this brand or this product. Um, and so that has really developed the story first
00:26:22.080 and content approach to commerce that has really developed over time into a full blown, um, you
00:26:28.380 know, journal blog that, that gets great traffic and is sort of something that really separates
00:26:34.640 us from most other, other, um, you know, commerce sites out there. So there is, um, you know,
00:26:41.980 that's a, um, you know, a definitely a bit, a big part of it. And, you know, I think a few
00:26:48.140 other ways we sort of, you know, differentiate ourselves early on. I think, um, I think as
00:26:54.680 time has gone on, like we've definitely found our voice even more. I think we've got like
00:26:59.440 more dialed in on like what exactly our edit is, what, what, what's like a Huckberry brand,
00:27:04.540 what's the Huckberry way of saying that. Um, and you know, again, it all kind of comes back
00:27:10.980 to storytelling and, and, you know, really just trying to be a signal in sort of a market where
00:27:16.760 there's a lot of noise. So, uh, you know, a lot of these other, uh, you know, shopping sites,
00:27:21.920 whether it's members only or even just retail, you know, a lot of these retailers, um, they sort
00:27:27.880 of lead with like the, the best deal. So they'll call up a brand and they'll say, Hey, like, what
00:27:32.940 can I buy for 70% off wholesale? And they're like, Oh, well, you know, have some stuff from 2011.
00:27:37.540 I couldn't move that. I could sell you, you know, for pennies on the dollar. And our mentality is
00:27:43.440 like, Hey, let's go find the coolest brands. And then let's bring our readers like the absolute,
00:27:48.600 like best selection from the coolest brand. And then, you know, we don't need to buy it 70%
00:27:53.580 off wholesale because we want, like, we basically have two customers. We want our brands to come
00:27:58.060 back to us and give us exclusive product and exclusive releases and, and collaborate. And, uh,
00:28:03.320 and then, but we also want our customers to kind of get a great deal. So that's why when you're
00:28:06.400 on Huckberry, you know, it's typically 10% off, 15% off, but, uh, you know, it's the
00:28:10.740 best price on the internet. And, um, and, uh, you know, we, we would argue it's sort of
00:28:15.720 the best, you know, product selection.
00:28:17.960 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, uh, that's kind of what sold me on it eventually. So that's,
00:28:23.440 you know, we, I can tell the story. It's kind of funny. So like when you guys approached
00:28:26.340 me back in, I guess, 2011, uh, about, Hey, do you want to be an affiliate and, you know,
00:28:32.520 help, you know, work with us? I was like, I was getting inundated with like emails from
00:28:37.780 people who were like, Hey, I got this membership deal site. And I was just like, my default
00:28:40.760 answer became no. And so I told you guys, no, like, uh, to do an ax giveaway with you
00:28:47.440 actually. Yeah. Um, but you guys were persistent and, uh, you, you finally, uh, got me on the
00:28:54.500 phone and like, you, you, you like were able to tell me like this, your vision, like what
00:28:58.400 you wanted to do. Um, that was like, it's like sort of like outdoor stuff for like the
00:29:04.260 guy who lives in the suburbs of the cities. Um, and you know, telling stories about how
00:29:09.760 you can use this stuff to like go live a life of adventure and like do cool stuff. And I
00:29:14.100 was like, okay, I'll give it a try. And, uh, since then it's been, it's been a fantastic
00:29:18.660 partnership. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it certainly has Brad. Um, and I, I, Andy and I remember the
00:29:26.220 day very specifically when, um, you did a nice write up about some of the, um, the
00:29:31.880 different men's shopping sites out there and you sort of mentioned Huckberry's, you
00:29:35.880 know, head above shoulders, uh, of the rest. And, uh, that was, that was definitely a big
00:29:40.100 day for us to have your, your endorsement. Um, you know, one thing that we've really
00:29:45.540 tried to do as we've grown and, um, sort of figured out our path and, and, and the
00:29:52.020 business life is, is, uh, like one thing you mentioned was being persistent. Um, and
00:29:57.180 then to finding people to partner with that are like, you're going to form a deep, deep
00:30:02.700 partnership relation, you know, deep relationship with, um, somebody that sort of sees the world
00:30:07.040 through, through, through your lens and, and you, it just sort of makes sense. Like you
00:30:11.280 would be friends outside of the, you know, the internet world. Um, and so I think, you
00:30:16.320 know, you were sort of very early on in that, um, approach and that's something that
00:30:20.860 we've just really maintained throughout our, our, you know, three and a half, four
00:30:25.360 years of being in business is trying to partner with people that, that just make a lot of sense
00:30:29.740 and not going out there and partnering with everybody, um, and trying to find, establish
00:30:34.480 more meaningful, deeper partnerships. Yeah. I think that's an important point to make
00:30:38.980 because, uh, there's, there are a lot of young entrepreneurs who get this idea that it's
00:30:43.860 sort of just the numbers game, right? Like make as many phone calls, send as many emails
00:30:47.900 as, even if like the people you're contacting, like wouldn't be a good fit for you. Right.
00:30:54.900 And, and it's just such a waste of time. And instead, yeah, if they would just focus and
00:30:58.660 like actually find those people who would be, they would, they would often provide value
00:31:03.840 to them and they would provide value to, they would get value from them. Uh, it'd just be
00:31:08.420 much more, much more effective. Yeah. You know, Brett to, to this day, I mean, I know
00:31:13.380 Rich and I sort of credit you with, uh, you know, sort of our, our big break in many ways
00:31:19.340 and, and, you know, are just sincerely thankful of, of sort of the, you know, friendship and
00:31:23.460 partnership that, that we, uh, we've come up with one thing. I don't know if I ever told
00:31:27.700 you, I remember I was on my honeymoon, uh, in Brazil with, with my wife, Kate. Um, and
00:31:33.720 I remember kind of, uh, I woke up in the middle of the night and was like answering, uh, Huckberry
00:31:38.840 emails and just kind of like thinking about some of our growth plans. I remember just
00:31:42.500 like writing a bunch of like partners I thought made sense. And then at the top of the list
00:31:47.280 was you and I just circled it. I was like, man, we just have to make this happen. Like
00:31:50.100 it's such a great, you know, just from like a value standpoint and how we look at the
00:31:53.700 world, it's just such a great partnership. And, and that's probably why you got, you know,
00:31:57.320 seven emails the next week. Um, and I've sort of caveat that by saying that I'm, I'm
00:32:03.080 kidding and please don't send Brett seven emails. That's not the way to do it.
00:32:06.860 But, um, that was, uh, that was sort of the start of it.
00:32:10.720 Yeah. It's, it's been a fantastic partnership and I've just, I've loved working with you
00:32:13.600 guys. And like, like Richard said, it's like, we're friends outside of, like outside of the
00:32:18.420 internet, which is awesome. I was going to tell you guys, uh, speaking of like how big
00:32:24.040 you've gotten, I saw a Huckberry adventure, adventure cap in the wild in Tulsa, Tulsa, Oklahoma.
00:32:29.400 Oh, no way.
00:32:30.480 Yeah. I went to go get donuts with my kid and there's this guy sitting outside eating donuts.
00:32:34.840 Uh, he's like a student here in Tulsa and he was wearing the Huckberry hat and I was like,
00:32:38.800 Hey, nice hat. He's like, and he, he recognized me from the website. He's like, Oh yeah. It was
00:32:43.780 cool though. It was to see a Huckberry hat in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
00:32:46.520 Yeah. Brett, I have a similar story for real, for you real quick. Um, so you're obviously
00:32:51.260 familiar with go rock. You've done a couple of challenges. Uh, we, we host this sort of
00:32:56.240 annual or semi-annual party with them called war stories and beer where they, you know, they come to our
00:33:02.360 offices and we clear everything out and, and they have, you know, some of the go rock, um,
00:33:07.840 what are they called? Uh, called cadres and they give up, they go up there and they talk about
00:33:14.060 experiences from their time at war and coming back to, to Huckberry or coming back to, um, you know,
00:33:19.540 the United States and readjusting and everything. It's just a, it's a great night and you know,
00:33:24.000 you're raising money for the wounded warriors and et cetera, et cetera. And, um, so we hosted one of
00:33:29.840 those about three months ago and this guy comes up to Andy and I, and he goes, Oh, are you, are you,
00:33:35.560 are you Andy and Richard? And we start talking to him and it turns out he was turned on to Huckberry
00:33:40.320 through you way back in the day, two or three years ago. Um, through Huckberry, he learned about
00:33:46.620 go rock and has since done, you know, five or six challenges with them. And he flew out from
00:33:51.920 Washington DC to come out to the go rock war stories at the Huckberry offices. It was just like a total,
00:33:59.220 you know, just one of those, one of those great, great evenings to, and to hear that story.
00:34:03.920 That's all. I want to talk more about some of that stuff that you guys are doing going beyond just
00:34:07.880 retail and telling stories. Um, because you guys are doing more than that. We'll get to that in a
00:34:12.540 second. Um, but let's get to this first. So, uh, you guys are in this position now where you're
00:34:18.240 tastemakers, right? Brands used to be that you'd have to like go to the, the retail, um, what are the
00:34:24.720 conventions or whatever those things are called? Yeah. Uh, and try to like, Hey,
00:34:29.100 pitch your business to them, but now companies are coming to you. Right. And a few years ago,
00:34:36.380 it seemed like there was really a dearth of quality like products for men. Um, but these
00:34:42.980 days, every time I turn around, I see some new startup that's turning out leather bags or journal
00:34:48.100 covers or a canvas dot kit or like stuff made from wood or manly soap or what? I mean, you guys know,
00:34:55.660 you guys have seen this stuff. Do you think the, the market for these kinds of products,
00:35:01.100 is it saturated? And if there's a guy out there who's like, I want to start some sort of
00:35:05.600 male lifestyle product. Um, what advice would you give that guy who's thinking about starting a 0.89
00:35:11.140 business in that, that niche? Yeah. So, you know, Brett, I think, uh, you know, specifically,
00:35:17.240 you know, I'll, I'll sort of start with, with leather because it seems like we see more
00:35:22.100 leather products than, than anything else. Um, you know, the, the thing about leather is that,
00:35:29.100 uh, it's really easy to, you know, create, create a, uh, you know, let's say a wallet business,
00:35:35.740 you know, design a really nice, uh, you know, a good looking wallet used to write leather. Um,
00:35:41.740 you know, maybe you contract out the work, maybe you do it yourself, um, put it on the internet,
00:35:46.200 post some pretty pictures and, and, and sell a few thousand. The, the problem is, you know,
00:35:51.120 that can almost be sort of a false indicator because, um, you know, it's easy to create a
00:35:59.200 leather business where you can sell a few thousand. It's really tough to build like, you know, a
00:36:03.200 million dollar, uh, a year, you know, leather business, or, or maybe it's $500,000 a year,
00:36:08.360 but, and that's because the market is so saturated that, um, you know, there's this, there's this real
00:36:14.020 desire and hunger for, for great leather products, but, um, you know, building sort of a, a sustainable
00:36:19.540 business outside of just kind of a, you know, a pet project, um, can be really tough. And I think,
00:36:25.280 you know, a lot of guys have maybe, you know, started selling stuff on Etsy and, and, you know,
00:36:30.260 and then kind of jumped in and found that, uh, you know, it wasn't sort of the market wasn't as,
00:36:34.700 uh, you know, robust or as supportive of the, of their vision as, as they thought. So that's just
00:36:39.460 sort of one thing to, to keep an eye on. I think at the end of the day, it all comes down to like
00:36:43.680 viewpoint, you know, there, there's just, just, uh, you know, my, my first boss said, you know,
00:36:50.600 having, having a view, a viewpoint and like a distinct viewpoint is worth 20 IQ points.
00:36:55.300 And it's something that I think we sort of ingrained here at Huckberry, like with, with a
00:36:58.860 brand, um, you know, when, when we're sort of assessing a brand, it's like, it's a crowded market.
00:37:03.900 Why this brand above, you know, above anything else? Um, is it, uh, you know, is it great value?
00:37:09.720 Is it, uh, you know, is, is there sort of a craftsmanship story? Uh, you know, how authentic
00:37:14.800 is sort of the brand? Um, and so, you know, the, the, the storytelling component of it,
00:37:21.100 which is the thing that we focus on and which is really what gets these brands in the door
00:37:24.580 is the most important thing. So if you don't have a viewpoint and you're just doing something
00:37:28.560 cause you don't want to, you know, you don't like your nine to five job and you're just looking
00:37:32.480 for an out, I think that can be like a pretty scary, you know, path to go down.
00:37:36.560 Hmm. Okay. I mean, but I mean, what about guys who like, I mean, with the leather thing,
00:37:43.340 there's people who I think are really trying to start a brand. They, they, they, they try
00:37:47.700 to like, they come up with a story right about, you know, they, they talk about sort of the,
00:37:53.240 the catchwords like American craftsmanship made in USA. Um, you know, like those are those
00:37:59.360 buzzwords that are really artisanal. Um, I mean, I mean, there's a story there, but like,
00:38:06.420 how do you, I mean, it's, how do you, if stories are what's really important in commerce today,
00:38:11.220 uh, how do you come up with a, uh, I guess, a story that sets you apart?
00:38:18.140 It's definitely a lot trickier now than it was three, four or five years ago. Um, you know,
00:38:26.340 things that we look for when we're evaluating inbounds is going to be, what did that person
00:38:31.840 do before, um, they went to leather? Like, is there, is there a story of why they got into it
00:38:37.200 or were they working sort of around the peripherals of leather or in craftsmanship? Like, like why did
00:38:44.100 they get involved? Was it just because they didn't like their nine to five and they're, and they want
00:38:47.420 to quit? Or is it a sort of a family tradition that's been passed down through, through the,
00:38:52.460 through the generations? Or is it, um, you know, you grew up on a horse ranch and you,
00:38:57.900 you know, worked with leather your whole life. Right. So trying to find like, what's the real
00:39:04.020 story behind somebody doing some, something, or is it just, I want to start a business. This is
00:39:09.500 trendy right now. I'm going to get into American made leather products. Yeah. So that, that's
00:39:13.620 definitely like, do you have, do you really have an angle or do you have something that like makes
00:39:18.160 you really want to be doing it? Not just because it's the trendy thing. So that's definitely something
00:39:23.360 like follow your passion and whatever you do. And if you're not passionate about what you do,
00:39:27.600 you're not going to be successful. Um, and that's one of the core things about Huckberry.
00:39:31.740 We started Huckberry for us because we didn't think there was something out there that was
00:39:35.480 speaking to us. Um, and, and so, yeah, make sure you're passionate about what you do because,
00:39:40.700 um, it is a pain in the butt at times. It's wonderful at times. Um, but it's something that
00:39:46.380 you have to really love to be able to, to, to, to be successful at. All right. Um, so I'm sure.
00:39:51.760 So yeah. Okay. You guys see a lot of like upstart businesses. Uh, some last, um, most of them
00:39:58.500 don't. Uh, what are the successful entrepreneurs doing that the not so successful ones are not
00:40:04.320 doing? They, they keep going. I mean, you, you, you can start with that. Um, you know,
00:40:09.980 just, just keep going, keep the feet moving. Um, you know, and I think it's sort of a combination
00:40:16.740 of things. I think one, you know, the successful ones are playing long game. Um, you know, like,
00:40:22.440 like we're a e-commerce retailer, but I think the secret sauce of, of the Huckberry brand is built
00:40:27.680 on personal relationships, uh, going to these trade shows, getting out in the community, you know,
00:40:32.720 having face to face developing, you know, relationships. Um, so, so even though, you know,
00:40:37.780 the customer has like sees a experience online that's, um, you know, feels digital. Um, there's so
00:40:45.120 much humanness behind it. And I think, um, you know, that's been sort of one thing that, uh, has
00:40:52.080 done wonders for us. And I think for a lot of these brands that, you know, like if you're a leather
00:40:56.240 brand and, and, and you're, you know, super passionate about what you're doing and, uh, you
00:41:01.340 know, you're out there kind of forging industry relationships. I think that really goes a long
00:41:05.620 way. So, um, I think some of the unsuccessful ones sort of discount that and, you know, they sort
00:41:12.220 of send those impersonal blast emails, you know, dear, you know, dear Mr. Art Manliness.
00:41:18.180 Yeah. Um, didn't even take the time to look up your name. You know, I started a leather
00:41:22.080 company, you know, here's the price, like, you know, let's do a giveaway and, you know,
00:41:27.600 and they probably got your name wrong, right? Yeah. Yeah. They always get my name wrong.
00:41:30.740 Brent or like sort of Brad or whatever. And, and, and so it's really, it's, it's the sniff
00:41:37.580 test, you know, it's like, are these guys playing the long game? Um, and, and so, you
00:41:42.860 know, rich kind of alluded to this earlier, but it really is like, are they just kind
00:41:47.320 of, you, you get the sense that they're doing things the right way and that they're really
00:41:50.940 in it for, you know, they aren't trying this out for three months, but they're, they're,
00:41:54.920 they're in it cause they think they're going to be doing this five years from now. Um, and
00:41:58.340 I think those who have that sort of longterm vision, uh, it's sort of, you know, trickles
00:42:02.500 down to the decisions they make each day, uh, and sort of how they build the brand, how
00:42:07.000 they, how they go about selling their product. Um, and so Brett, just, just to hop in here
00:42:13.540 real quick for, for, for me, and I know Andy shares this as well. It's, you have to be
00:42:18.360 a doer. Um, it's all, it's all about action when you're starting a company and just, and
00:42:24.200 getting things going and trying and learning by mistakes and you can't overthink things.
00:42:29.480 You can't make the best product out there. You have to really start doing. And so we look
00:42:34.520 for someone that's got a lot of initiative and that's really just like, is so hungry
00:42:38.440 to get going. You have to hold them back really. And, and, and that, and that sense of, of doing
00:42:44.940 is really, really important, especially at an early stage startup.
00:42:49.060 Yeah. I think that's a great point to make because I feel like a lot of people have this
00:42:52.360 idea that I have to have the perfect business plan before I can get started. And I have to
00:42:58.340 like know like everything about whatever it is I'm doing to, you know, before I actually
00:43:03.260 get started on something. But the thing is like the way you really learn how to run
00:43:07.480 a business, uh, is just getting your hands dirty. Like that's, and I, yeah, I've seen
00:43:12.400 something like, like in my area where people want to always get it. I'm always getting
00:43:16.920 asked questions like, how do I start a successful blog? And like, they want to sit down and like
00:43:20.180 they have all these questions and they just, they never get started though. It's just like,
00:43:25.080 I'm just telling you, you just got to get started. Just get something out there.
00:43:27.860 Brett, you know, um, my, my sort of favorite, or I should say one of my favorite, uh, quotes
00:43:34.580 on entrepreneurship was, was actually by Mike Tyson. And he said, everyone has a plan until
00:43:39.800 they get punched in the face. Right. And I think that that's sort of, that that's, that's 0.87
00:43:44.920 a great way to look at it. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face and, and
00:43:48.800 you just, you have to get out there and, and, you know, see whether, you know, you can, you
00:43:53.380 know, stand up on your own, you know, two feet and take those hits. Awesome. I love,
00:43:58.060 I'm glad we got some Mike Tyson wisdom in here. Yeah. Um, there's, there's not much
00:44:02.620 of it. All right. So I think a lot of people might look at you two and think that you guys
00:44:08.180 have like the ultimate dream job. I mean, I'm sure they just imagine like all you're
00:44:11.920 doing is going out into the redwoods or, you know, it's nearby and camping and testing
00:44:17.760 out cool gear and writing blog posts about it. Uh, what's your job really like? Is it
00:44:23.880 as dreamy as folks imagine? Um, no, it's one of those things where there are moments where
00:44:32.320 I, where I think to myself like, wow, I can't believe this is my job. This is awesome. But
00:44:37.080 for every one of those, there's five of, you know, this massive headache or you're up all
00:44:44.240 night, you know, five nights in a row trying to figure out a problem. Um, you know, running
00:44:49.680 a business is definitely learning how to put out fires and whatever comes at you, you have
00:44:55.400 to find a solution. So it's one of those things that you can't even imagine how many fires there
00:45:00.980 are in the world until you start running a business. Yeah. And you know, the other thing
00:45:07.620 is like, we work really, really hard. I think, um, you know, that's probably something that,
00:45:14.060 you know, maybe from the outside people don't appreciate it as much, but everyone here works
00:45:18.940 really, really hard. I think, you know, part of that is, is we're bootstrapped and, and,
00:45:22.720 and, uh, you know, we make every penny count. And, and I think, uh, there is a bit of self
00:45:27.420 selection in that, you know, we're hard workers. So we bring in hard workers who have great attitude
00:45:31.300 and, and sort of great fits with the Huckberry culture and kind of take our, our, our brand
00:45:35.700 forward. But, um, you know, that said, we also make sure to, to play at times and
00:45:40.920 Oh yeah. Yeah. Like it's definitely an environment where, you know, you're encouraged to take,
00:45:45.640 take a half day on Friday so you can get up and beat the traffic in the mountains and that
00:45:48.940 sort of thing. So it's definitely a balance, but we, we, we work hard though. That's for
00:45:52.900 sure. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I think a lot of particularly young people, I mean, they have this dream of
00:45:56.620 starting like a lifestyle business, right? Kind of like what you guys do. And they imagine,
00:46:00.120 Oh, if I start this, then I'm my own boss and I'll be able to like just drop whenever,
00:46:04.460 whenever I'm doing and it'll be amazing. Right. But I, they don't, they don't think about the
00:46:09.540 logistics, right. That you get into it. Once you get bigger, problems get bigger and they grow
00:46:15.540 exponentially. And, uh, yeah, it's just like, it's, you don't think about, I think a lot of
00:46:19.640 people, they don't think about that part when they go into starting a business.
00:46:25.080 Yeah. Mo money, mo problems. Mo money, mo problems. All right. Uh, so let's talk about,
00:46:30.960 uh, Huckberry's future. Um, so you, you mentioned, you mentioned a little bit about how you do these
00:46:35.360 sort of meetups, right? You do the GORUCK, uh, war stories and beer. Uh, you did the, uh, Huckberry
00:46:41.360 holiday home last year. So it seems like your guys are trying to actually get people, uh, physically
00:46:48.380 together. It's not just online. Uh, is that sort of like the future of Huckberry where you want to get
00:46:53.600 people together, uh, in front of each other? Yeah. You know, again, kind of circling the
00:47:01.220 wagon back to, to the mission statement of, of inspiring more active, adventurous and stylish
00:47:06.720 lives. Like, you know, right now we do that through commerce and we do, you know, we do that through
00:47:10.840 content. Um, but I, I think going forward, you know, we, we want to do that both in commerce and
00:47:16.360 content better, but, but also we want to do it through, you know, in-person experiences and events.
00:47:21.280 And, and, you know, I think the, the thing we're trying to do with Huckberry is really build,
00:47:26.340 build a community of, of, you know, like-minded brands and people, uh, and, and blogs and, and,
00:47:32.940 you know, create cool experiences that don't kind of currently exist in the world and put all those
00:47:37.460 people together. Um, so Brett, I know, you know, we, we've talked a lot about, you know, doing the
00:47:41.940 Huckberry holiday home and, and, you know, doing Huckberry on the road, uh, or, or, you know,
00:47:46.820 an art of manliness and Huckberry event and, and just, you know, kind of putting
00:47:51.220 our heads together and, and sort of creating, uh, you know, cool AOM and, and HB experience.
00:47:57.140 Yeah, I would, I think that'd be awesome if we could do that. But right now you guys are doing
00:48:00.460 that like Huckberry on the road, right? With the band. What's going on with that?
00:48:04.680 Yeah. So we, uh, we threw a party with Topo Designs in Denver, uh, this past Thursday. So
00:48:10.580 just got back from that. Um, awesome, awesome event. So, so the genesis of Huckberry on the road is,
00:48:16.660 um, you know, we, we have all these great relationships with brands all across the country,
00:48:21.320 uh, you know, really cool factories behind these brands. A lot of these brands make their products
00:48:25.960 in the U S and we sort of wanted a conduit to kind of tell their stories, um, you know, in, uh, in
00:48:32.720 person, either through video or through, through pictures or, or, or through, uh, local meetups.
00:48:37.580 And so, uh, our good friend, John Gaffney, who, uh, you know, in the past has written for
00:48:42.160 Valet and gear patrol and a few other publications, um, told us of his dream to kind of quit his
00:48:47.340 nine to five job and, and, uh, you know, travel the world and sort of document or travel the
00:48:51.980 U S I should say, and document a lot of these guys and sort of dovetailed exactly with what
00:48:55.900 we were trying to do. So, uh, we sponsored him to do it and sort of the, the, um, you know,
00:49:01.160 official, uh, tagline is, uh, you know, exploring America and documenting it's, uh, makers,
00:49:07.480 makers, bakers, movers, and shakers. Um, it's sort of the, the fun tagline we came up with.
00:49:12.740 And so through our first event in Denver, had a great time, met a lot of, uh, AOM readers
00:49:17.660 there, which was just awesome. Again, kind of like what Richard was saying with the go
00:49:21.200 wreck event, just, just so fun. And, and, you know, it's amazing to see the impact that,
00:49:25.800 you know, you're having out there and, and, and it's just awesome when sort of our two worlds
00:49:30.180 collide. And, um, and so, uh, you know, the punchline is, uh, Huckberry on the roads coming
00:49:35.920 to many more cities. Um, I think Portland is one of the next events we have coming up
00:49:40.900 and, and hopefully, you know, maybe Tulsa, man. That would be awesome.
00:49:45.700 Yeah. And it's definitely about sort of, you know, encouraging sort of the experiential
00:49:50.800 side of Huckberry. So lots of meetups and happy hours and, um, and hikes and all those
00:49:56.860 kinds of things. So it's, it's really about, you know, telling the story of our brand partners
00:50:00.180 and what they're doing. And then also meeting, meeting the Huckberryans out there and trying 0.79
00:50:04.000 to do some cool stuff with them while, while we're on the road.
00:50:06.760 Very cool. Well, Andy and Rich, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Uh, thanks so much
00:50:11.040 for your time.
00:50:12.600 Thank you, Brad. It's been a pleasure.
00:50:14.160 Yeah, absolutely. Have a, have a great long weekend.
00:50:16.420 You too.
00:50:17.060 Our guests today were Andy Forch and Richard Greiner. They are the co-founders of Huckberry
00:50:21.300 and you can find out more about Huckberry by going to huckberry.com. And if you haven't
00:50:26.360 signed up for the newsletter yet, if you use the URL aom.is slash Huckberry, that's aom.is
00:50:33.020 slash Huckberry, you'll get a $5 credit on your first purchase with Huckberry and yes,
00:50:38.580 full transparency. That is an affiliate link. So I'll make a small percentage of the sales
00:50:43.800 on that, which will help support the podcast and everything else that goes with the podcast.
00:50:47.340 So I'd really appreciate that. And you get $5 credit, which is great. Um, so yeah, it's
00:50:51.560 Huckberry.com.
00:50:53.880 That wraps up another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. For more manly tips and advice,
00:50:58.980 make sure to check out the Art of Manliness website at artofmanliness.com.
00:51:02.180 And if you enjoy this podcast and you feel like you've gotten something out of it, I'd really
00:51:06.080 appreciate it. If you go to iTunes or Stitcher or whatever it is you use to listen to your podcast
00:51:11.500 and give us a rating, that would help us out a lot. And until next time, this is Brett McKay
00:51:15.820 telling you to stay manly.