#90 Master the Money Game With Tony Robbins
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Summary
In this episode of the Art of Manliness podcast, we discuss why the mistakes and myths that many Americans believe that put them in financial peril, why baby boomers are ill prepared for retirement, why you shouldn't invest your money and actively manage mutual funds, and what you should do instead.
Transcript
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brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast
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well many of you probably know who tony robbins is he's the famous motivational speaker he wrote
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awakening the giant within and whenever you've written posts a few times people have brought
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tony robbins up anyways it's been 20 years since his last book and he's just come out with a new one
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it's called money master the game and in this book tony robbins interviews some of the world's most
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richest wealthiest successful investors to find out what average joes can do and learn from them
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to invest their money so they can be set up for success and this book money master the game isn't
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your typical like you know think and grow rich type thing where you just think positive thoughts and
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money will magically appear tony gets really detailed on what you can do to set yourself up
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for financial success and it's really boring stuff things like using index funds having a balanced
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portfolio taking care of insurance so you can protect yourself in case of an emergency having
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an emergency fund but what makes this book different from other personal finance books that i've read it
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just gets in the nitty-gritty like super detailed and so it's a big thick old book anyways today on the
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podcast we're going to discuss what pissed tony off so much that made him want to write this book
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why the mistakes and myths that many americans believe that put them in financial peril why baby
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boomers are ill prepared for retirement why you shouldn't invest your money and actively manage
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mutual funds and what you should do instead and then also what you can do to maintain a healthy
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relationship with money so that sure you can focus on building a stable financial life but you don't
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want money to become the sole pursuit and let it canker your soul so we're going to talk about what
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you can do about that as well so all in all a very fascinating and just a lot of actionable
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takeaways from this podcast so let's get on with it
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tony robbins welcome to the show thanks for having me on okay so your new book is called money master the
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game but before we get into it this is your first book you've written in 20 years uh what have you
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been doing and why did you come back after all this time with a book about investing and financial
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instruments well brad i you know it's i got a few day jobs i you know i'm on a plane about every
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four or five days i i go to 15 countries of my events i might see sometimes 200 000 250 000 people
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in a year so um and i have a series of other companies but what pushed me over the edge to
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finally write a book was uh in 2008 when i saw so many people suffering you know i grew up really
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a pretty tough environment financially where you know we lost our cars were taken from us our homes were
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removed there was no money for food at times so when i saw people losing their homes and losing
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half of their network and i knew it had been manipulated it made me crazy and i thought the
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government for sure is going to do something and when they didn't two years later i was kind of
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obsessed with every article every documentary that showed how this occurred and i watched a
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documentary called inside job which was later on the academy award and that david did the intro the
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voice offer of it but you know at the end of this thing you saw step by step how small number of
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people destroyed their whole economy and then the punishment they received was for us to bail
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them out but worse than that we put them in charge of the recovery so they could make more money and
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um you know you watch that thing at the end you're either really pissed off and angry or you're really
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depressed because there are no solutions and i thought to myself there's got to be a solution and
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this book was that solution because i said you know i have access i have a gift that most people
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don't have i most people know me or know of me don't know that i've been coaching
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one of the top 10 financial traders in the world for 21 years his name is paul tudor jones
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and paul's not lost money in 21 years i'm talking about the 2000 stock market crash he made a ton in
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1987 he made a ton but uh you know back in 2008 you know when the market was down 50 he made 28
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positive so i've been with him shoulder to shoulder to all of that and i figured my god i've learned so
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much but what if i also interviewed 50 of the most brilliant financial minds in the world people that
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started with nothing and became multi-billionaires you know what about you know hedge fund top hedge
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fund guys what about you know the noble laureates out there if i went to that side of the table
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and when i was done i figured okay now if i can simplify this i can now teach people things that
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nobody's ever taught them before i can take the average investor and show them how to really win it's
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like leveling the playing field and taking the best of wall street to main street fantastic you know you
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talked about some of the what got you angry like people just losing their homes losing the retirement
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savings um and the statistics about how how ill-prepared people are for retirement particularly
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baby boomers and you talk about that in your book it's really sobering um what what mistake do these
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individuals make mistakes or do they believe myths that were out there about how you plan for your
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retirement how you plan your financial life what what happened there well there's a couple things one is
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there's been a change in our society in the last generation and that is it used to be you know
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prior to you and i getting into the workforce that you worked your tail off you went to school you went
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to work for a big company and you moved up in the organization by adding value and eventually you
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retired and you have a thing called a pension so unless you work for the state of federal government
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it's probably not something you've heard of recently because a pension is an income for life however long
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you live that stuff's gone and we replaced it with a 401k which was never designed to be a pension
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401k was designed for wealthy people to be able to set aside a little extra money and what happened
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is you know companies couldn't afford the size and demands of attention anymore in the competitive
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world we're dealing with and so we moved to 401k as a de facto strategy and of course the challenge
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is one out of three you know baby members today have a thousand dollars saved for retirement it's
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insane and the rest have their money in a 401k and they don't know how to run that 401k they don't
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even know what's in their 401k and if they are in the 401k they put their money in a mutual fund
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here's the first big myth you know you think if you put your money in a mutual fund obviously
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that's a professional manager i work for a living i i don't manage money so obviously they're going to
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do a better job well the truth of the matter is that the statistics show and i got this from everybody
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from warren buffett to you know the people the university studies is that nobody beats the market
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there's a few unicorns like ray dalio or warren buffett there's you know paul tudor jones there might be
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six or seven people that actually built the market beat the market consistently but they're not
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available to the general public so a mutual fund is a failure 96 of the time they fail to even match
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the market well the four percent that make it you think i'm going to find them you're not going to
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find them by going to morning star which is what few people might do because whoever's a five-star
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morning star doesn't stay a five-star so you know i try to explain to people by giving a metaphor
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if you've ever played blackjack you know the goal is to get to 21 but if you go over 21 you lose
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close up to 21 wins so if you get two face cards and you got 20 you know is your inner idiot going
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to say hit me and with a weird chance and maybe you get the ace and win well if you do say hit me
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you have an eight percent chance of getting an ace you only have a four percent chance of getting a
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mutual fund so what has happened to these people is two things the world has gotten so complex in
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the financial world people are fearful because markets have become extremely volatile all around
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the world and so what's happened is a significant number of people never get in the game they think
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i have to have a bunch of money and i gotta make a bunch of money to make money and that is the
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single biggest mistake i'm sure you've seen that all of your listeners have people that win the
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lottery and they're broke five years later seven years later eight years later or all these athletes
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that make these huge fortunes and they end up with nothing or movie stars i mean kim basinger when i was
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growing up you know she was the top actress in the field she was getting 10 million dollars a picture
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she bought a 20 million dollar town in texas bankrupt you know you can look over and see
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somebody like mike tyson the guy made a half a billion dollars in income and went bankrupt you
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know michael jackson was virtually bankrupt right before he passed away and died so it doesn't matter
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how much money you earn contrast that to theodore johnson theodore johnson is a guy that worked for
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ups started out as a driver never made more than 14 000 a year in his life never more than 14 grand
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but in his senior years it was worth 70 million dollars now how the hell do you do that in 14
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grand the answer is really simple you ask warren buffett warren why you're rich he said three things
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one i'm rich because i grew up in america with this opportunity two i got great genes so i lived a long
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time and three compound interest this kid this man beato johnson just took compound interest and he did
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the first thing i teach which is stop thinking you need a billion dollars and take a percentage of what
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you earn today as little as it may be and automate it so you never see it he had 20 taken out of his
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check and put an investment account that sounds huge most people say i can't save 10 percent well
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even if you save five percent and you go to your employer and say every raise i get in the future
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take out three percent and don't let me ever see it research shows that if you do that over 10 12
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periods of time you'll be saving 15 before you know it we start saving 15 financial problems are not
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going to be yours you'd be moving forward especially for your audience your audience has got time to
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certainly become financially wealthy so that's the very first step and it's really what most people
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fail to do okay so you mentioned uh mutual funds that's where a lot of people go and i think people
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go there because that's where the market like you watch the tv commercials right or you read the
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pamphlets and say wow this sounds great um but yeah they don't perform well where should people put
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their money in than if mutual funds actively uh managed mutual funds aren't the place to go
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and you brought you brought the right language active see if you're hiring somebody and they're
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having to decide which funds to put together which stocks to put together into a fund they just don't
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beat the market what you want to do is own the market itself and the world we live in today that's
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called an index fund in fact i interviewed jack bogel who's the creator of index funds he's now 85 years
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old he's been in the stock market for 63 years and he wanted to create a way for the average investor
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anybody take a tiny amount of money and get a piece of all the biggest companies in the stock
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market so we have the vanguard 500 so like the s&p 500 it's the biggest company so it's coca-cola
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it's exxon it's these companies and what happens is you get a little piece of all of them but here's
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the real secret why would you do that versus the mutual fund because the mutual fund first of all
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doesn't beat the market because it's some mix it's not all 500 it's a mix of what they think will make
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sense which never does long term but also number two it's the cost to have that manager make those
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decisions they bury huge costs when you ask somebody how much does your mutual fund cost you
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99% of people i've asked i've asked during this whole media tour i've had one person think they knew
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the number the rest had no clue and the one who thought they knew the number they were dead wrong
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so here's why most people if they think they know they'll say it's about one percent that's what
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most you know money managers will throw around but one percent is called the expense ratio that is
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like the beginning of the sticker shock if you leave that actual 50 page prospectus that comes
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with you know your mutual fund which nobody does you'll find there's 17 other costs they may not
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call them fees but their costs they come off the top you don't you won't get any money until that's
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handled so Forbes did an article they said the average mutual fund today costs 3.17 now
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before i lose your readers i go who gives a shit about three percent you got to remember just the
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same way that 14 000 was compounded at 70 million compound fees compound also it's called the tyranny of
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compounding fees and so what happens is for every one percent you give up over the lifetime of your
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investing that's 20 percent of all you're ever going to earn so you give up 30 percent three percent
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you're giving up 60 percent so try this on for size if i said to you here's an investment i want
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you to make i want you to put up all the money i want you to take all the risk i'm going to put up
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no money i'm going to put up no risk if you lose i still get paid and if you win i get paid more
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in fact i get 60 percent of your total return would you make the deal most people say are you crazy
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that's what 13 trillion dollars with the mutual funds are based on so actively managed so you want
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to go not active you want to go passive passive means just you just buy the market and so here's
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here's a perfect metaphor for you right now you can buy the vanguard 500 you get a piece of all
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the top 500 companies in the stock market from vanguard for 0.17 is your cost that's less than two
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tenths of a percent as opposed to 3.17 so you understand what the magnitude means if you found
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out you paid 350 000 for you know a honda accord and your neighbor got the same car for 20 000 which is
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the equivalent number 0.17 versus 3.17 that's the difference 20 grand versus 350 grand or another
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way of putting it would be if you had two people and one is and they both invest they get the same
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return let's say they start out with uh you know a hundred thousand dollars and at 35 years old they
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put that money aside they forget about it and they go out at seven percent a year they never add
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anything else and they do it for 30 years until they're 65 so that 100 grand with no other help if it
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goes at seven percent will be worth 574 thousand dollars when you turn 65 30 years from now but
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if you pay three percent in fees it's not worth 574 it's not worth 500 it's not worth four it's not
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it's worth 324 000 a quarter of a million less or a better way of describing it 77 percent less money
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and you got the same return the only difference was the fees so i show people how to protect themselves
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most people you're the chess piece i want to make you the chess player i want to make you the insider
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so this never happens to you so all that money goes in your pocket so set aside money early and
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often and focus on index funds as opposed to actively managed mutual funds well that's one
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that's one part one part you know as i work as i wrote in the book and you got a member i interviewed
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carl icon and ray now you don't know let's talk about ray for a second yeah most people don't even
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know ray's name right so but in the investment world the president of the united states knows ray
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you know janet yellen the head of the fed knows ray the premier of china knows ray in fact
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my dad went to go see him the premier you know reached out and wanted some coaching he manages
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money for for countries you know a large hedge fund where rich people will tend to put their money
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might be 15 billion dollars me but ray is 160 billion 10 times larger than the largest hedge fund
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so i want to sit down with him and this is a man to give you perspective
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that you know in order to get give him any money 10 years ago you had a five billion dollar net worth
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you have a hundred million dollars now 10 years ago he stopped taking money so now it doesn't
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matter what you got he won't take it i spent three hours with him and as i'm doing i said to him i
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asked him questions i asked all of the people that i interviewed and that was look if you couldn't give
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your money to your children and all you could give them was a strategy uh a set of rules uh a
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portfolio if you will what would it be if you were trying to help them start with nothing and build
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the financial freedom and also not have that crazy ups and downs in the market is there a way to do
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it and ray said to me there's absolutely a way to do it i spent 10 years of my life put it together
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it's called the all-weather strategy and literally you make money no matter what the weather whether
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the market's going up or the market's going down whether that's whether there's you know gold is
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going up or down whether you're in a place where you know you you see real estate going up or down
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doesn't matter and i said well explain it to me laid it all out for me and i said this is brilliant
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we spent you know i don't know 30 minutes talking about it and i said you know the problem is the
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average person just doesn't have any time and you just got done telling me the average person's never
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going to make money going to a wealth manager or to a money manager or you know to a mutual fund
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so i said what you told me is great but it's not going to help somebody because they need to know
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the percentages i mean you like told me make the best chocolate cake but here's what you do use
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some chocolate use some sugar i need to know the percentage of each of those that's where the
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secret is he goes well that's my secret sauce i said right he goes i can't get to that he went
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through the whole 100 billion you know 5 billion 100 billion thing and i said yeah but you're not
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taking money so why not give it you're one of the most generous human beings i've ever met i said
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you're giving away half your net worth eventually anyway why don't you help the average person out
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right now and he said well it's really complex i said i can make things simple i'm pretty smart
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you said well there's leverage i said why don't you design one without leverage so we designed
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something it's not the all-order strategy it's slightly different but it's based on the same
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principle it's called all season and if you take this strategy and you apply it if you back test it
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not make up some monte carlo what you think the future will be but if you back test it not for a
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year five or ten but for 75 years the modern period of investing you find out he's been successful in
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making money 85 of the time and when it little times it lost money its average loss is 1.6 percent
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in fact the largest loss think about it the last 10 years there have been 250 ups and downs in the
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market 2000 2008 you lost half of all you have think about how volatile markets have been 75 years
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in 75 years the most we've ever lost is 4 percent not even 4 minus 3.95 percent and the average return
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it's been just under 10 so it is the smoothest ride anybody i've shown it to has ever seen in
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their life and he gave it for free i mean you can go get my book and you can go apply this yourself
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15 minutes a year and you're done or you're gonna have somebody else do it for you but this is just
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one of many strategies i also got david swenson david swenson is from yale he took one billion dollars
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in funds of yale and turned it to 23.9 billion 24 billion in two decades almost a billion a year
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you can imagine that and he gave me his exact portfolio of what he would suggest for somebody
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who wants to build so the book is not just index funds that's interesting and some people already
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know that it's if you're going to invest in the market alone then index funds yes and you reduce
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your fees but if you're really looking to maximize your return and reduce your risk then you got to
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look at what the best investors in the world talk about and that's why one of the principles is
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invest like the 0.001 percent not the one percent the 0.001 percent of the people i interviewed i
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interviewed 50 and i put 12 interviews shortened versions of those interviews massively shortened
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in the book because the interviews were three hours long so 75 page notes for each interview
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but i did about 12 pages of some of the core principles with each of 12 of the best investors
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on earth yeah i thought it was interesting a common thread through all of them was their like their
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strategy was don't lose money like that was their top priority and then like making money came in later
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well you know it's interesting there are two things they're obsessed by they're all different
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like carl icon goes and shakes the c-suite and threatens if you don't maximize this business i'm
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going to knock to throw you out uh then you go to somebody like you know jack mogul who says
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live the index then you go to somebody like paul tudor who's a macro trader they all do different
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things but the one thing they all have in common is these two obsessions one as you said they don't
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lose and the reason they don't lose is they know if i lose 50 i got to make 100 to get even that
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could take years that could take a decade that could take an enormous amount of time energy at
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risk on the other hand though they know they're going to be wrong so they have a plan to protect
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themselves so the one thing that they do to protect themselves and make money is they live for what's
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called asymmetrical risk reward asymmetrical risk reward simply means most people think these wealthy
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people take huge risks and they teach huge rewards the truth is they take the least amount of risk
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possible for the maximum amount of upside so in paul tudor jones's example he'll his strategy is i
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want to risk a dollar because i believe i can make five i know what he wrong some of the time so if i
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risk a dollar lose five and i go with another dollar i risk two now and make five i'm still doing great i
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can risk four out of five times and still be in great shape and he's not wrong four out of five times
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or another example is kyle bath kyle bath took 30 million dollars and turned it into a hundred excuse me
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two billion dollars from 30 million in two years in the middle of the worst economic crisis we've had
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in 80 years how did he do it he did it because he never risked more than six cents to make a dollar
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let me think about that if you're a six cents make a dollar he failed nice and another six cents he spent
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12 cents to make a dollar if he's wrong four times it's 24 cents to make a dollar i mean he could be
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wrong 15 times and still make money and he wasn't wrong 15 times but that's one of the biggest things that
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people learn in the book how do i get asymmetrical risk reward this is my friend they're taking me
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out of here for my next meeting you have one last question yeah one last question so we talked about
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all this uh you know how to make money but how do you uh maintain a healthy relationship with money
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um while you're trying to get your financial house in order so he doesn't like canker your soul or let
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it become your obsession well i think the fastest way is to disavow yourself of the bull beliefs that
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people have that money changes you money will make you more of what you are if you're mean you have
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more to be mean with if you're loving and giving you'll be more loving and giving with it it's a
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total story that you're going to become obsessed by unless you already screwed up in which case you
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should go work on yourself but the vast majority of people what they'll find when they have more
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abundance is that they'll be more of who they are they'll be a bit more relaxed and so i think we make
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this whole story up in our society because people are so afraid to be judged it's not what money does
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it's your fear about other people judging you because if we live in a society where money is
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a reflection of power so if you if people have money some people are embarrassed they have it some
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people are humiliated they don't have it it's like a shapeshifter it's like a canvas whatever you
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project on it that's what it is for you but ultimately it's portable power you can use money to save a
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life you can use money to put out a life i mean it can create or it can destroy you can start a
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business or you can put somebody out of business so i really look at it this way i say look it's a
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tool it's a tool you need to master if you don't master money it's going to master you
00:21:54.860
and stop all the stories in your head about all the emotion about it the emotion is your own normal
00:21:59.700
emotion you have it about other things too all it is is that money is something that people
00:22:03.700
identify with and so often if someone's doing well rather than saying i'm not doing as well and i'd
00:22:09.980
like to really learn from them which is a little scary because what if i try and fail instead we have
00:22:14.860
to subscribe some negative motivation to them they don't give a shit about anybody i mean in my book
00:22:19.300
i'm donating all the money for this book to charity and then some i was fed when i was 11 years old
00:22:24.680
that changed my life so i've been feeding people ever since started with two and four and eight
00:22:29.320
families and i built it you know over the years so i fed 42 million people so when i was working on
00:22:34.260
this book i said okay i'm going to donate the money i'm donating 50 million meals and i got people
00:22:39.680
writing me going oh you're just in the money and you're an asshole and my book will never sell 50
00:22:44.620
million meals i've written a big check way beyond what i got in this book so people don't want to be
00:22:48.880
confused with the fact that you're going to try to please everybody else you're going to have no life
00:22:52.640
the only way not to be criticized is do nothing say nothing and be nothing i'm not willing to do
00:22:58.360
that neither was aristotle and neither should you awesome well tony robbins thank you so much for
00:23:03.280
your time it's been a pleasure thank you very much take care take care our guest today was tony robbins he
00:23:08.240
is the author of the book money master the game seven simple steps to financial freedom you can find that
00:23:13.880
on amazon.com and books everywhere you can also go to money master the game.com for more information
00:23:20.240
and for some free resources well that wraps up another edition of the art of manliness podcast
00:23:26.560
for more manly tips and advice make sure to check out the art of manliness podcast at
00:23:30.260
art of manliness.com and i really appreciate if you go check out our online store at store.artofmanliness.com
00:23:37.280
we just released this really fantastic benjamin franklin inspired journal we basically took
00:23:43.740
benjamin franklin's personal diary and virtue charts that he created for himself to live a better
00:23:48.460
life and replicated it it looks really great and it's selling like hotcakes it makes a great christmas
00:23:54.340
gift great birthday present so you can find that on store.artofmanliness.com and your purchases
00:24:00.600
there will supports the show and supports the website so i'd really appreciate that so until next time