The Art of Manliness - A Futurist's Guide to Building the Life You Want

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast and when people

00:00:11.000 hear that Brian David Johnson is a futurist they typically want him to offer some predictions for

00:00:14.660 what the world will look like 10 20 50 years from now but Brian will explain to them that being a

00:00:18.800 futurist is less about predicting the future than envisioning possibilities for it choosing the one

00:00:22.840 you want to build and figuring out how to get there from the present Brian works through this

00:00:26.660 process of future casting for fortune 500 companies in the military and in his book the future you he

00:00:31.300 shows individuals how they can apply it to their personal lives he shows what that looks like with

00:00:34.940 us today on the show beginning with the importance of envisioning the future not as something set that

00:00:38.620 you're helplessly hurtling towards but as something you can actively change in shape we then talk about

00:00:42.260 how to do your own future casting by figuring out what you want the life of your future you to look

00:00:45.940 like and identifying the tools and people that can get you there Brian then explains how to get going

00:00:49.900 towards your desired future and why that future is local and we end our conversation with what all

00:00:53.880 this has to do with a quote from general dwight d eisenhower plans are useless but planning is

00:00:58.320 everything after the show's over check out our show notes at aom.is future you

00:01:02.260 all right Brian David Johnson welcome to the show that's a pleasure to be here Brett so you are a futurist

00:01:19.460 so what exactly do futurists do and what do you think are the biggest misconceptions people

00:01:23.720 have about your profession so as a futurist i work with organizations to look 10 to 15 years

00:01:30.300 out in the future and i model both positive and negative futures and then i'm an applied futurist

00:01:35.960 which means that i turn around and look backwards and say okay what are the steps we need to take

00:01:40.500 today tomorrow five years from now to move towards that positive future and move away from the negative

00:01:46.520 so probably the best example where i've done it in the past is i was the chief futurist at the intel

00:01:51.820 corporation the chip company and the reason why i was there is because it takes them 10 years

00:01:56.140 to design develop and deploy a chip so it was a vital business importance for them to know

00:02:01.760 10 years in advance what people wanted to do with technology and that was my job so i'm a i'm an

00:02:06.760 engineer and a designer by training and really was my job to write a requirements document for what

00:02:11.780 people would want to do with computers 10 years in the future and then we would use it for not only the

00:02:16.280 design of the chip but we use it for hiring we use it for patents so it's a kind of a really applied

00:02:22.820 really kind of specific process and now i work with different organizations whether it be with

00:02:28.000 large corporations which i still do but i also do a lot of work with the government and the military

00:02:32.240 kind of looking out at these possible and potential futures and then enabling people to take action

00:02:38.380 that's so much about what i do and so brett i think some of the biggest misconceptions are that i

00:02:43.300 predict the future i think that drives people nuts right is that they hear i'm a futurist and then

00:02:48.180 they say okay mr futurist so tell me the future of this or that and the thing is is i refuse to make

00:02:53.720 predictions really ultimately what i do and what i teach my students to do at arizona state university

00:02:58.960 is to work with individuals and work with organizations to not only envision their future

00:03:04.220 but really map out the steps it's going to take to get there gotcha so you're not making predictions

00:03:08.340 you're not you're not you never say like oh while you're 2020 all the robots will have taken our jobs

00:03:12.800 you don't do that kind of sort of stuff no no not at all but i do kind of look at parts of that so

00:03:18.260 we can say okay well what will the effect of this technology be what will the you know where do you

00:03:22.540 want to go and and so a lot of it really is kind of very action oriented to say okay what do you

00:03:27.560 what do you need to do about it so yeah very rarely will i you know you know here's when the

00:03:31.580 robots are going to rise up and take over humanity i get asked that all the time and oftentimes i i can

00:03:36.780 answer that if you want me to answer it but a lot of times i'm like that's really not the type of

00:03:40.640 futurist i am and what do you think when people think about the future people like the misconceptions

00:03:44.800 people have about when they think about the future well i think the biggest misconception is that the

00:03:50.820 future is set you know people think about the future as this place that we're all running to

00:03:56.040 helpless to do anything about it right it's like we're all going to you know des moines iowa or boise

00:04:01.880 idaho and people always ask me about it like you know hey bdj what's it going to be like in the future

00:04:06.820 how do i prepare for the future you know what's the future of this or what's the future of that

00:04:10.700 and really the grammar and the vocabulary around that's all wrong because the future isn't fixed

00:04:17.500 and so i always tell people you know where do you want to go it's not this specific place that

00:04:22.860 you're headed towards now granted it's based on facts you know where technology is going where is

00:04:28.380 culture going and economics and all that type of stuff but i think people have a lot more control

00:04:32.960 over their future than they really know yeah so like the future is not like back to the future

00:04:37.300 part two where there's a 2015 that you can go to and everything's going to be like flying cars like

00:04:43.420 who knows what it's going to be like there's so many factors that could change all that right and i'm a i'm

00:04:49.100 a huge science fiction fan i'm also a science fiction author so i'm a nerd so i love back to the

00:04:53.620 future i love the whole franchise but i always have to remind people and sometimes i'm a little wet

00:04:57.980 blanket when it comes to it i it can be a little sobering i tell people i mean that's awesome and

00:05:02.020 it's a great movie and it's really fun you do know back to the future is a movie right

00:05:05.600 it's not the future it's a movie right and a movie is there to have a good time and that it does right

00:05:11.760 it's a really great movie but it's not the actual nuts and bolts of going about and building the real

00:05:17.720 future the capital f future and how do you think this misconception of thinking that the future is

00:05:22.180 determined how does that sort of how does that stymie organization but also people from moving

00:05:28.900 forward with their life well i think for most folks what i've seen over the last 25 years is

00:05:34.480 people feel powerless people feel well the future's set and so where can i go okay what's going to

00:05:41.120 happen how do i prepare and they they really don't feel like then that they can start taking action and

00:05:45.980 on one level you know it gets people to feel if they have you know some agency and they feel kind

00:05:51.640 of comfortable and they have maybe some means you know they're trying to kind of make the right moves

00:05:55.940 to maybe prepare for the future and that actually from a business standpoint and from a personal

00:06:00.240 standpoint is really the wrong way to do it i mean i can tell you that's that's really my job is to

00:06:04.240 work with organizations to go no no you can actually take steps to actually help form that future in

00:06:10.880 different ways and i work as i said with uh sort of large organizations and trade associations and

00:06:15.600 things like that to do it but i think brett the the really dangerous part of it is when people

00:06:20.600 are not active participants in their future right they're not actively trying to shape it and what

00:06:25.860 that means is you're being a passive participant in your future and if you wind that out a little

00:06:30.720 bit more it means that you're being passive when it comes to your future which means you're letting

00:06:35.480 somebody else design your future for you and that never works out great i mean that result never

00:06:40.980 works out great and so i always that kind of worries me about people as it takes away their power

00:06:45.820 and it takes away their agency to really shape their lives and sometimes that can be you know

00:06:49.960 really dangerous with folks because they really do feel like they're kind of unmoored and kind of

00:06:54.920 they don't really have the ability to make changes and make decisions in their lives and that's why i

00:06:59.140 always want to kind of remind people and i i've seen it in their faces it's one of my favorite things

00:07:03.700 and and why i like working with individuals and talking about this stuff is you see people

00:07:08.140 you see their faces light up and their eyes light up all of a sudden you see oh my gosh

00:07:12.440 i can actually start shaping that future and that to me is is really exciting well you started

00:07:18.480 working you work with individuals but you're you're bread and butter is working with large

00:07:22.580 organizations to help with their high level strategy how did you start working with individuals and why

00:07:28.800 did you end up writing a personal development book from a futurist perspective yeah that's a that's a

00:07:34.260 great example brett and that's a really interesting ride over the last 10 to 20 years so you're right

00:07:39.280 i mean my day job is you know i work with the united states army looking at the future of weaponized

00:07:44.360 artificial intelligence or i work with the defense threat reduction agency looking at the future of

00:07:49.260 digital weapons of mass destruction right sort of these big things or like with the intel corporation

00:07:53.780 or like with companies like mastercard looking at the future of threats to kind of fraud and security

00:07:59.280 so yeah it's really kind of sort of serious stuff and it's something i really enjoy and i i love my job

00:08:04.680 i absolutely love my job but what's been really fascinating is people will pull me aside right

00:08:09.980 because i you know i'm the future guy so i'm talking about the future and i think a great example is one

00:08:14.820 of my clients is a manufacturing company in the in the midwest of america so big traditional

00:08:21.100 manufacturing company really awesome i've been working with them for many years and i'm also a

00:08:26.020 big baseball fan so they always know when i come to town it's like oh let's go take bdj to the ballpark

00:08:30.920 and one of the things that they did is they said well let's give our ceo just some some time with

00:08:35.960 bdj right you get some some off the record time with the futurist right and so we ended up getting

00:08:40.820 this kind of really fancy suite which was nice and basically was all off the record so this ceo could

00:08:45.780 ask me whatever he wanted basically for like an hour or two before the rest of the team showed up and

00:08:51.140 we sat there and we were having a beer and we were watching the game and every single question he asked

00:08:55.740 me was about his kids every single question was how do i make sure that my kids are prepared for

00:09:01.260 the future how do i you know what do i do and so to me i take those types of questions really serious

00:09:07.580 because i realized if somebody's asking me about their life or even more about the lives of their

00:09:12.540 kids you know that's something that's more important to them than their own life right and so

00:09:17.300 i really really very early on took that really seriously and so i would start talking to people and

00:09:22.740 what i would tell them is that you know look i can't tell you your future i don't make predictions

00:09:27.020 again if i always tell people beware of predictions and people who make them because why are they making

00:09:32.480 this prediction about especially about your life like they don't know anything about your life and so

00:09:37.840 again going to that empowerment say look i can't tell you your future but i can tell you how i think

00:09:42.760 about it how to think like a futurist and how to get prepared for it and i would do that so i would do

00:09:47.540 it you know in keynotes at conferences i would go to schools k through 12 schools and and kids would

00:09:53.860 pull me aside and it just became this thing that really wasn't my day job it was just this i just

00:09:58.820 cared and i was like well because the future matters to me and so i started having these conversations

00:10:03.060 and then i realized a couple of my friends said you know you really should write a book about this

00:10:07.480 stuff you know you do it for governments and militaries and big corporations and you care more about

00:10:13.140 average people than you do about technology than you do about big business why don't you write a

00:10:18.940 book that enables them all right so yeah the future you you walk people through and how to apply the

00:10:23.680 process that you use when you're consulting the military or the intel corporation how to it's not

00:10:29.560 predicting but get an idea of what a possible future could look like and how you can get to that

00:10:34.080 point or how to avoid a potential future so let's walk through some of the stuff so there's two types of

00:10:39.360 casting that you do there's future casting and there's threat casting let's talk about future

00:10:45.000 casting first like what's the overall process and then maybe we get some details here in a bit

00:10:49.260 sure so future casting is as you rightly called out that's generative it says basically

00:10:54.460 ask a very simple question what's the future you want what do you want it's the hardest question

00:10:59.360 that we'll all have to answer and that's what we do in the book is there's lots of examples and

00:11:03.640 lots of ways of being able to answer that question for you and so really it says okay so what is that

00:11:08.500 future you want and it gets you to get really specific and those details are really important

00:11:13.160 and kind of walks you through okay here's how you can kind of get an understanding of that and you

00:11:18.040 know my uh my my professor shows i people like to say no i am a professor so even in the book

00:11:23.960 there's a thing called quick questions in almost every chapter that just kind of interrogates it and

00:11:28.280 allows you to interrogate your future to really ask all of those different questions because

00:11:32.660 it's in those details right it's telling that story of the future you which is so important

00:11:38.360 because that's going to give you that raw material to really understand what's going to propel you

00:11:43.040 towards that future and then also figure out what are the steps you need to take you know today

00:11:47.440 tomorrow you know as you move into the future to get there so that's that's future casting all right

00:11:52.180 so okay let's talk about that first question which is figuring out what you want like you said

00:11:56.820 this is the hardest i think it's probably the heart yeah i mean i when i think about like what do i want

00:12:00.780 for the future someone would ask me i'm like i'm like i don't well i just want to be healthy i want

00:12:05.280 to be i it's i typically give like vague answers so what are some questions or how do you get drill

00:12:11.840 that down so it's more detailed so you know what exactly it is you want for the future yeah and and

00:12:18.480 that's i think brett you call out a great i think your way of answering the question is how most

00:12:23.200 people do it so if you want to we can do some straight up future casting for you right now on the

00:12:26.420 fly yeah let's do it let's yeah let's figure but here i'll give you an example and then we'll do

00:12:29.460 then we can do you so this is an example in the book but it's one that i use all the time because

00:12:33.740 it's i like to have a little bit of fun with it as well you can't you know i mean the future is a

00:12:37.660 very serious subject but you don't have to take yourself too seriously so i was talking to a woman

00:12:42.620 she was kind of mid-career kind of you know not not really happy where she was in a good relationship

00:12:48.620 but just professionally didn't really like what she wanted so we were we were having a chat and i was

00:12:52.760 like well what do you want just like you said and she said she didn't know she goes you know and

00:12:56.500 she goes that's why i'm here talking to you and you know i kept asking some little questions here

00:13:00.200 and there and she was getting kind of annoyed with me and i said okay fine let's have a little

00:13:03.620 fun with this i said do you want to be rich and she kind of paused and looked at me and she's like

00:13:09.960 what do you mean i'm like do you want to be rich and you know she looked like looked at me like i was 0.52

00:13:15.460 an idiot and i'm like well answer the question she goes well yeah i want to be rich i was like okay 0.85

00:13:19.760 awesome great now we have a start you want to be rich cool what kind of rich do you want to be 0.99

00:13:24.660 i said you have to give me details rich is not enough right it's sort of like saying i want to

00:13:29.140 be alive in the future it's like okay fine i get that great so what kind of rich and she didn't she 1.00

00:13:33.800 was like i don't understand what what you want me to how you want me to answer that i said okay let's

00:13:37.000 try this do you want to be yacht rich she still kind of didn't get it yet and i was like do you want

00:13:42.480 to have a yacht do you want to have enough money and i'm not meaning like a boat or a fishing boat or

00:13:46.900 anything i mean like a full-on yacht a captain a crew right big big yacht and she's like oh gosh no i don't 1.00

00:13:53.320 i don't want a yacht i said okay great now we know that let's go to the next one do you want a

00:13:57.280 mansion do you want to be mansion rich she kind of thought about it and then she was starting to get

00:14:01.600 it and she was like not really i said yeah do you want like a staff and maids and grounds and 0.99

00:14:07.100 groundskeeper she goes no no that's that's too much that's too much okay great and we just kind of

00:14:12.080 walked it through to kind of figure out when you describe these things you just kind of keep

00:14:16.700 interrogating keep asking more detail more detail and part of that is then i always try to get people

00:14:21.260 to say okay so you know in your future what does a thursday look like when you wake up what's it like

00:14:27.800 you know what do you do in the morning you know where do you get your coffee or your tea or your

00:14:31.700 water what's it look like when you walk around and to really kind of get people to kind of tell that

00:14:36.040 story because there's power in that story not only in the details because it gives you things that you

00:14:40.560 can do but it gives you kind of power again to be in those details and so you can see yourself in

00:14:46.860 that future and really interrogate it to say okay i this is the kind of future i want and those stories

00:14:51.800 will become a really important tool when you go on this journey and start working with other people

00:14:57.220 and talking to other people and thinking about these future forces and all the backcasting and

00:15:00.660 all the things brett that you know now is a part of the process but that that story part is really good

00:15:05.760 but i i will tell you the flip side of that story as i was talking to somebody else and i was doing

00:15:09.840 that rich thing because it's kind of funny and i was talking to this one guy and i said do you want

00:15:14.220 to be mansion rich and he looked at me and he went yeah yes i do i was like great that's awesome man

00:15:21.860 cool and we talked about it and we really talked about and he was down in silicon valley and stuff

00:15:26.120 like that so i was like hey you know i'm not going to judge that fine great and i'll tell you i ended up

00:15:30.380 getting a text from him a little while after that and i just got a quick text like yep and i'm mansion

00:15:35.340 rich now you should stop by for a drink and i was like wow and he did it yeah he ended up he made you

00:15:40.820 know did some investments again he was in silicon valleys and he got mansion rich which

00:15:44.120 i was like good on you good job as you were talking something i thought because i was oh he's

00:15:49.520 about to ask me like what i want i have i think i'm really good at saying describing what i don't

00:15:54.140 want but i have a hard time coming with like a positive like what like a like what would it

00:15:58.760 would look like what i actually want does that make sense like i like i don't i don't want to

00:16:02.660 die i don't want to go bankrupt i don't want to run out like what i don't want my kids to

00:16:08.480 you know have problems in the future but i can't it's hard to be like well what do what do i what

00:16:14.080 is a positive outcome look like well i think there's two things in that brett so one so that's

00:16:19.760 the cornerstone of threat casting as you mentioned you said there's two types of casting there's future

00:16:23.900 casting which is generative what do i want where do i want to go and then there's threat casting

00:16:28.400 which is as it sounds sort of it's it's preventative so what do i not want and

00:16:32.420 and it really and that's threat casting grew out of these types of conversations

00:16:36.780 in my professional life but also in when i was talking with personal folks around because as

00:16:41.180 you said it's oftentimes easier to say what do you what do you not want what's the future you don't

00:16:45.200 want because then you flip it over and you look at the converse of it and say okay well that's okay

00:16:50.400 so if you don't want that that means this is what you want so it's a it's a way to kind of get

00:16:54.400 into having that conversation so there's nothing wrong with saying okay this is the future i don't want

00:16:58.620 gotcha also then and that's a so but the difference then because you had asked about

00:17:03.480 sort of future casting threat casting the real main difference there is with future casting we

00:17:07.440 say okay what do you what do you not want so that you can then have a conversation about what you what

00:17:11.820 you want let's be clear i mean most people again don't give themselves the time to think about this

00:17:17.880 stuff i mean they just don't oftentimes and you've probably had it and many people have it and a lot of

00:17:23.400 guys have it i call it the people call it the 3 a.m terror right when you wake up

00:17:28.040 you're thinking about your life you're thinking about your health you're thinking about your family

00:17:32.360 or your community you know you know recently you know what we've all been through in the past year

00:17:36.640 year and a half you know we've kind of seen some of these really bad things and that's also where

00:17:41.160 threat casting comes in because threat casting says okay well let's talk about the threats and it it

00:17:45.740 goes real dark real fast and we get straight into it and i do write about this in the book some big

00:17:50.740 threats i mean i in the book i talk about war and pandemic and things like that and really saying okay

00:17:55.920 what does that mean how do you prepare for it but again the whole goal is again to get into the

00:18:00.620 details of it right is to say you know i don't want to be bankrupt and okay okay great you know

00:18:06.180 let's talk about that i write a couple of parts in the book where i talk to people who were really low

00:18:11.300 i mean we're on the edge of bankruptcy and we're really really without a lot of means and so but we

00:18:16.640 can talk it through we can say okay well okay well and what do you not want and what does bankruptcy

00:18:21.940 look like or what is making sure having enough money looks like or i you know during the the

00:18:26.340 pandemic i talked to a lot of small business owners and a lot of small business owners really

00:18:30.080 like this book as well because it's not just your personal life but as many small business owners or

00:18:34.840 many entrepreneurs probably in your audience know is it's kind of intertwined with who you are as an

00:18:38.960 individual a lot of small business owners you know we've had that conversation to say well what do

00:18:43.320 you want or what do you want to avoid and they say well i don't want to go out of business i'm like

00:18:46.780 great i totally understand that what does that look like does that mean you want to keep

00:18:51.100 the store that you have right now exactly as it is maybe does that mean you'd be okay with staying

00:18:57.420 in business but going to a smaller store or would it mean going maybe just fully online for a while

00:19:03.080 or is it all about growth is about going to a store that's 2x or opening another store that i use that as

00:19:08.640 a way to start engaging in those conversations with people again and also it's not that they don't

00:19:13.180 know brett i know you probably know it's just generally you're not given the space to do this you're

00:19:17.880 not given the space to have these conversations with yourself or with other people and again

00:19:21.880 that was that was part of the goal of writing the book well here's a question what if someone like

00:19:27.160 says they want something and then they get it and they find out i hate this so how do you avoid how

00:19:32.240 do you avoid that well that's the that's part of it and there's actually a funny story in the book

00:19:36.580 about that as well so i think one thing is you got to let yourself off the hook again remember this

00:19:42.460 future is serious but don't take yourself too seriously so know that the future will change

00:19:48.000 right it will always change as we said before the future is in motion right it's not set that doesn't

00:19:53.720 mean it's you know it's not a single set place it means it's always in motion you know it's things

00:19:58.540 are always going to change and so with that you've got to give yourself a little slack to say hey the

00:20:03.480 future might change which means the future you might change what you want out of that future might

00:20:08.200 change so as you follow the process and say okay this is the future i want and these are the steps

00:20:13.120 i'm going to take and these are all the future forces and that's cool but know that as you're

00:20:17.720 going through this journey it might pivot a little bit and that that's that's not a problem that's a

00:20:22.660 win that's the thing i always tell my students she or he who kind of breaks their vision first wins

00:20:29.000 because now you've made it better so i think it's embracing that idea that it's going to change and

00:20:33.740 the more you learn it's going to change and the more people you talk to it's going to change and

00:20:37.780 actually the closer you get to it it's going to change so there's a story in a book which i really

00:20:42.700 really enjoy was a guy by the name of maddox and maddox super smart biologist he's in boston and we

00:20:49.500 were we were at a conference and we were hanging out and talking and we were walking around and he

00:20:52.720 was thinking about his family his partner he's got some kids and they wanted and it's boston right so

00:20:57.480 it's he wanted to get a house and he was trying to think okay how do i get ready for this and you know

00:21:01.220 i'm not a financial advisor but i was like well here's how i think about it we were kind of talking

00:21:04.500 through and he was really thinking about he wanted a house for his kids and he wanted the yard and he

00:21:09.300 wanted that you know and so we were talking about okay well think about that future you and tell me

00:21:13.120 about it i said you know go inhabit that future i said not only go talk about it with your partner

00:21:17.860 and your family but like go live in that future like if you go and look at the listings and you may

00:21:23.160 not even have enough money right now that's cool but look at the listings now number one so find out

00:21:28.040 what you know what it might cost and what you might need to do to help you get your finances

00:21:31.320 straight but then like go to that neighborhood go have coffee in the neighborhood where you want

00:21:35.600 to live or where you might want to live or if you can afford it get an airbnb or vrbo and actually like

00:21:41.320 spend the weekend there like take a vacation in your future like that that type of stuff is always fun

00:21:46.040 right and and they actually really got into it i kind of joke the family who future cast together

00:21:49.880 stays together like they had a great time they actually went and did that and so i and so they went

00:21:54.520 off and did it and they they really did the work which is i was really impressed and i was swung back

00:21:58.020 through boston and we were having a barbecue in maddox and he actually had a apartment at the

00:22:02.760 time so we're out on his balcony we're having a beer and we were barbecuing and he says i gotta

00:22:06.320 tell you something bdj and we were talking about this future casting i was like yeah what is it he

00:22:10.200 goes i really learned something about myself i said what'd you learn he goes i hate grass i was like

00:22:16.380 what and he goes i hate grass i don't want a yard like i went to this and i realized i hate yard work

00:22:23.480 and so he kind of went off and he had thought like many of us you know he wanted that very

00:22:27.620 traditional house and it turns out as they were kind of doing this and going down this journey

00:22:31.060 they turned out he hated grass and i was like awesome now you know imagine how awful it would

00:22:35.460 be if you went out through all this and you actually bought a house that had a huge yard and

00:22:39.160 you realized that you know you were gonna you were gonna have to spend your life working on all

00:22:43.200 this grass and all this stuff so no i think it's it's a good thing when it changes and i think you

00:22:47.280 can kind of have fun with it we're gonna take a quick break for your words from our sponsors

00:22:50.940 and now back to the show all right so figure out what you want i mean you got to get specific

00:22:57.820 so to start do you just keep asking yourself i mean there are questions you can ask just like do i

00:23:02.980 want to be rich like are there starter questions you go through with people yeah and so first up it's

00:23:08.160 getting into so who is that future you and is it about you know again getting specific so is it

00:23:13.100 about are we talking about relationships are we talking about uh career are we talking about like

00:23:18.120 with maddox houses you know what is it first you know what are you because like i said i mentioned

00:23:21.820 there was that the woman who i was asking if she was yacht rich she had a great relationship so her 1.00

00:23:25.740 you know on the kind of romantic kind of sex love side of things she was great it was more 0.95

00:23:30.520 kind of career so i think first to kind of figure out you know it's often helpful to say okay well

00:23:35.560 what aspect do i want to do that kind of helps and then you start thinking about all right and you

00:23:40.180 kind of go through and questions are then you know what would a day in the life be like and it

00:23:44.460 changes depending upon what you're talking about right the the future you when it comes to a house

00:23:48.220 looks really different they say for a career so it's really getting into those details and saying

00:23:53.580 okay describe it and you really got to write it down and this is what i tell people now this could be

00:23:57.280 you could type it in your phone type it on your laptop i'm a big pen and paper guy like write it down

00:24:02.160 because even having it written in your own handwriting is really important but it's you've got to take the

00:24:07.360 time to live in your future even if it's just your brain and really write down those really

00:24:12.700 specific areas around whether it be like i said is it grass or is it what does a day of your work

00:24:17.500 life look like and again really specific like who's it like who are you working with what kind

00:24:21.320 of autonomy do you want to have what do you want to do all that type of stuff even from a finance

00:24:25.160 standpoint you can sort of you can kind of think about what all those details are but i think the

00:24:29.660 real important part isn't just that you don't have to get it right the first time but you do want to

00:24:34.120 you want to get good with it you want to be able to have a good story about the future you

00:24:37.940 and then the first step in the whole process is to identify your people like who's your team

00:24:43.180 right we've all got a team a squad like and it's usually your family your close friends it could be

00:24:49.020 if it's a small business might be the people in your business it could be the people you know people

00:24:52.820 in your community it could be people in your church it really depends upon who you are in your life but

00:24:56.680 we've all got people right first is to identify those people and go tell them your story

00:25:01.580 and it'll be really hard in the beginning because you'll feel a little silly but don't right you can

00:25:06.760 just tell them this crazy bald bearded futurist like myself was the one who's pushing you to do it

00:25:10.940 so go do it and then like tell them that story and you'd be surprised how people will be really

00:25:17.100 interested in it how they'll be really interested in that story and they may ask you questions about

00:25:22.080 it and you'll get more details and you'll get more information about it or they might tell you they

00:25:26.220 disagree with it that's fine and then kind of have a conversation about it go back and forth and

00:25:29.960 it becomes this really interesting way to make that future feel more real and more manifest and

00:25:35.640 and now also what it'll help you do is it'll help you identify the toxic people in your life and

00:25:41.340 we've all got them and and you know what i'm talking about these are the people who are there 0.71

00:25:45.180 to tear you down these are the people who will tell you that's dumb you can't do that so you need 0.95

00:25:50.360 to get rid of those people right that's not your that's not your people those aren't your that's 0.97

00:25:53.840 not your your team that's going to help propel you forward and it really this will help you

00:25:57.780 identify those people really well so now once you've done that and and actually the more you tell

00:26:02.740 the story the better you'll get at it and the more details you'll have and it's kind of fun and then

00:26:07.060 after a while and then also especially if it's your family or if it's a partner or something like that

00:26:11.420 it's a really nice conversation to have to kind of see what that that looks like is as you do it

00:26:15.740 together so that's number one let's figure out who your people are then once you've kind of got a

00:26:20.480 clearer vision of that you start identifying what are the tools that are going to help you get there

00:26:24.460 and these could be things like you know technologies or apps they could be trade associations or local

00:26:31.560 community thing local community organizations to be quite honest it's podcasts like this you know

00:26:37.560 if you look at all the info on the backlog of this podcast i mean it's pretty amazing so you can kind

00:26:42.900 of go through and say okay these are the kind of technologies and organizations that are going to

00:26:46.480 help me kind of get myself educated give me more information connect me with other people and then the

00:26:51.700 next part you now that you've got this story is to go find out find the experts who are the people

00:26:57.000 who've done this before who are the people who've kind of achieved your future or maybe not exactly

00:27:01.760 your future because you're an individual and everybody's future is different but who are the people

00:27:05.880 who maybe live next door to your future and so go ask them and get their advice and again by having

00:27:12.580 that story about the future you you'd be really surprised because anybody who's been able to achieve

00:27:17.820 anything in life knows it's all about people that everything we do is about people it begins with

00:27:22.460 people and ends with people it's all about that social network and connecting with people and

00:27:26.440 you'd be really really challenged you'd be really surprised actually how people will be kind of giving

00:27:32.000 of their advice and what they know this process of you know finding people finding your team finding

00:27:37.420 experts finding tools organizations this is analogous to finding future forces part of what you do for

00:27:43.420 corporations correct exactly yeah those are the three main forces that help to kind of propel you

00:27:49.120 towards that future you and so and along the way you're gonna be asking these s i mean so when you

00:27:53.380 talk to an organization and you're trying to figure stuff out for them you're looking at like oftentimes

00:27:58.140 big picture cultural political technological factors should the laymen look at that sort of stuff too or

00:28:04.820 would that would they get too overwhelmed with that i think that's up to the person you know i think

00:28:09.260 there's uh it's really the there's no right recipe for it you know you know certainly when i do this for

00:28:15.020 corporations in the military yeah it's a very rigorous method that looks at everything from

00:28:19.580 social science to technology to cultural history we look at economics we look at trends whether those

00:28:28.060 be regulatory trends or cultural trends and then i spend a lot of time interviewing people who are

00:28:31.680 actually building the future and there's a it's a very kind of rigorous method in process of going

00:28:36.500 through and doing it and i think when you do it for yourself part of it is whatever works and again

00:28:42.020 that's the engineer in me so whatever gives you enough detail to feel like you need to get started

00:28:47.320 you know it needs to be rooted in reality i think that's a really important thing right it's got to

00:28:51.380 be rooted in reality of of what you can achieve and what you can do you know i'm a i'm a big baseball

00:28:56.920 fan and i can guarantee you brett i'm not going to play professional baseball it's just not going to

00:29:01.160 happen i was a pretty good first baseman a long time ago but it's just not going to happen so

00:29:05.340 part of it is kind of as much as you need to number one get it rooted in reality and number two

00:29:10.620 that gives you enough information to start the journey i think that's the thing is that you just

00:29:14.960 need to get started because that's really the hardest part and then as you start going through

00:29:18.660 those future forces it's really in those conversations where a lot of that information

00:29:23.100 will come out so it's really getting started to the point that you feel like you've got a good story

00:29:27.300 that you feel comfortable with and then it'll just get better and better and better as you work

00:29:30.520 through the future forces now there's one example of a young woman that you talked to in the book where

00:29:35.600 she wanted to be a cpa and her mom was like you got to talk to her because computers are going to

00:29:41.500 make cpas obsolete here in like 10 15 years and you went to go talk to her and she's like oh no like 0.88

00:29:46.960 i've looked into this like i want to like i love math i love numbers but i want to work for a company

00:29:51.320 that's basically making algorithms like artificial intelligence versus like she had like she saw that

00:29:56.520 future force when she did her investigation to her talking to experts i thought it was a good

00:30:00.140 example of someone who got based in reality was able to make a pretty good decision about the future

00:30:04.400 they wanted yeah it was great i mean she was she was she really didn't need me at all she was she

00:30:10.060 had done her homework and you know she was a cpa who was going to help get rid of all the automate 0.98

00:30:14.540 the cpas right just like back in the 1990s how a lot of travel agencies got automated and things like

00:30:19.860 that but she had done the work yeah she was very uh very smart young lady all right so first step

00:30:25.220 figure out the future you want uh get really specific the next step is find people that can help

00:30:30.480 you make that happen or give you more information to help you make that future you want happen or

00:30:34.880 help you refine what it is you want and then this third step of future casting is called backcasting

00:30:40.480 what is backcasting yeah right so before we dive in it so your teams you got it right but i would only

00:30:45.620 your team also is going to hold you accountable okay so this is also so this is a thing that people

00:30:50.440 ask me a lot which is how do i keep going right you can get started but you know we we're all busy

00:30:56.460 right we've all got lots going on so how do we keep going also your team is going to be you know

00:31:01.780 you're going to check in with your team and they're going to go hey how's that going you know you know

00:31:04.840 what's going on because again it's as we know if you if you involve other people and they're involved

00:31:09.960 in your future it's going to really help you kind of stick to it and keep it going right and it's just

00:31:14.880 that that level of accountability i think is really helpful and even for you you know like anything we do

00:31:20.180 in life like you know going to the gym or learning a new skill having somebody else there to kind of

00:31:24.880 hold you accountable and to ask them to hold you accountable is is i think a key part of it so

00:31:28.800 yeah those are those those forces and then the backcasting part so this is where the rubber meets

00:31:32.920 the road this is where it gets really serious so now you've identified the future you want

00:31:36.720 you've identified the people the tools the the experts that can kind of help you get there now

00:31:41.680 you're going to say okay if this is who you want this is the future you now you're going to turn

00:31:45.280 around and look backwards and say okay great that's where i want to be this is the future you this is

00:31:50.320 what i want so then you ask yourself okay great what will get you halfway so what is the thing that

00:31:56.240 you could achieve and this is super specific this is why i say i don't know your future nobody knows

00:32:01.100 your future but you so this is the thing that you have to answer for yourself in your gut and also in

00:32:06.520 the story that you've done in the work that you've done what will make you feel like you're halfway

00:32:10.300 if it's a job thing it could be getting out there and um you know getting a degree or getting an

00:32:16.000 additional degree a little bit of training if it's a home a house thing or a finance thing it

00:32:20.600 could be a certain level of savings or a certain level of connections right that's what i mean it's

00:32:23.780 so personal but it's okay you got to write down okay what gets you halfway so then you look at that

00:32:29.020 say okay this is where i want to be this is my halfway point and then i want you to split it again

00:32:33.440 to say okay well what will get you part way what's that thing that you know you're not all the way

00:32:38.140 there but it's going to show you yeah i've made some real progress like i am i'm doing it man i'm there

00:32:43.080 i'm on my way it's starting to happen and then you write that down as well and then the next thing

00:32:48.420 you ask yourself is well what's the thing i need to do on monday what's the one or two things that

00:32:53.440 i could do on monday that is going to be simple could be a google search it could be you know

00:32:58.320 calling somebody on the phone or making an appointment or going to a like a community group

00:33:02.700 around something doesn't matter but what is the little thing that you can do that won't take much

00:33:06.860 time or energy certainly won't cost you any money that will say wow yeah i really am taking that

00:33:12.200 first step and then you write that down and you get to it so i think in that way it makes it really

00:33:17.820 really methodical but that's one of the things that a lot of people have kind of come back and

00:33:21.480 their feedback on the book and on the process is like yeah it's work i mean it really is work i'm

00:33:25.820 gonna tell you this is not just imagine your future and it will happen to you i i will i will not tell

00:33:30.360 you that's going to happen but what i will tell you if you go through and you give yourself the time

00:33:33.920 to do it and you go through and do it it really becomes accomplishable you really feel like okay

00:33:38.340 yeah i'm i'm taking those steps i'm kind of getting there no yeah i think everyone's experienced that

00:33:42.720 with like a big goal if you just think about the big goal you get overwhelmed but breaking it down

00:33:47.080 like this it actually makes it approachable i like i especially like the thing like what can i do

00:33:51.400 mondays like what can i do the next few days to make it happen and i love the examples you give in the

00:33:55.260 book oftentimes it's not as earth shattering as you think it needs to be it's can be as you said as

00:34:00.120 simple as a google search sometimes yeah and it shouldn't like i said it shouldn't cost any money or

00:34:04.360 take too much time you know i'll give you an example in the book kind of going back to

00:34:07.380 you know somebody who was really down and out i mean she didn't know where she was going to get

00:34:11.720 her rent from and she you know and she had hit bottom right and we've all hit bottom at one level

00:34:17.100 right it'd be financial or personal or professional whatever so i don't shy away from that and she had

00:34:21.960 hit bottom and she really didn't know again like i said where she was going to get rent from and she 0.99

00:34:25.800 was she was she was in crisis and i totally get that because again in my professional life i do a lot

00:34:30.940 of i've done work with refugees and i've done work with other folks with i mean bad right really really bad 0.57

00:34:35.760 but then to pause and go okay but let's do it let's let's figure out what we need to do and so

00:34:40.020 we were talking about what she wanted i said listen i know rent and the finance part that's really

00:34:43.760 important but put that aside for a moment let's take a breather from that and let's think about

00:34:48.220 the future you want one of the things she wanted real important to her was to go back to school

00:34:52.880 she really wanted to go back and because of some financial some sort of physical and mental health

00:34:57.660 stuff she couldn't do it and that's one of the things she really wanted to do she wanted to go

00:35:00.900 back and i said okay great so we were working on that and writing it down and so we kind of

00:35:04.240 talked through a lot of that stuff and her thing on monday i said look go on the website of the local

00:35:09.920 school that you might want to go to and find out who are the admissions people or who are the people

00:35:15.780 who's really their job to help you be a part of this and it was a large public sort of state

00:35:21.020 university type thing so they had those resources there i said it's their job to help you i said so

00:35:25.840 go on monday and go find that university and see yourself at that university but net but even better

00:35:32.300 email that person email that admissions person say hey could i get a 15 20 minute conversation with you

00:35:38.100 about you know what i need to do and how i need to start thinking about this stuff because that's

00:35:42.220 that person's job and again won't cost you any money only going to cost you about a half an hour

00:35:46.240 and she did it and it was so empowering for her because all of a sudden she was like she could see

00:35:51.480 that that future you she could see herself and it also made all of the other real hard problems that 0.81

00:35:58.700 she had to deal with she then had all this energy because she was like oh my gosh i could actually do

00:36:04.440 this like i could because talking to this person who was like okay here's what you need to do you

00:36:08.540 need to do this you need to do that and here's how we can help you and here are these things and

00:36:11.320 they weren't going to solve all her problems for her but all of a sudden the future got so much

00:36:15.720 bigger for her so that those smaller steps in the beginning just became you know so much easier

00:36:20.540 yeah this process helps people help helps increase people's sense of agency which allows them to do more

00:36:25.660 yeah that's exactly that's the heart of the book right there right you hit it nail on the head

00:36:30.460 that's the soul of this book is to sort of help dispel the fear but really give people agency and

00:36:36.200 say no you you have the power you have the power to do this and it really is up to you to take it

00:36:40.640 and what's amazing i mean this is people are like well this is such a simple process like i just got to

00:36:44.000 figure out what i want i just got it then i figure out you know tools and people that can help me and

00:36:47.880 then i do the backcasting but it's simple but like you said it's not easy like figuring out what you

00:36:52.000 want that's probably the hardest part and then this stuff takes work that second part

00:36:55.420 definitely takes a lot of work and that third step the backcasting that takes work too you can't

00:37:00.180 just sit and let it happen you have to be an active participant in it yeah i think it's it's

00:37:04.920 accomplishable i think that's it right it's is it is it hard it can be sometimes like i said having

00:37:09.420 some of the conversations i can guarantee you the first time you write down that story of the future

00:37:15.760 you all by yourself and the first conversation you have with somebody is going to be a little hard

00:37:20.640 it's just it's hard because you're making yourself a little bit vulnerable but i think it

00:37:24.280 goes back to that brett that it's it's accomplishable that you can do it you just have to do the work but

00:37:29.380 you know anything anything in life that's worth doing is going to be a little bit hard right that's

00:37:34.640 a that's also what i tell folks when they're doing this is when you feel uncomfortable and you feel like

00:37:39.360 it might be a little bit hard that means you're doing the right thing right that means you're actually

00:37:43.560 taking the steps to meaningfully change your life whatever you want to do it whatever you're the life

00:37:49.300 you're getting to if you if you're doing that if it is a little bit hard if you do feel a little

00:37:53.580 bit comfortable that is the way it should be that that should tell you that you're winning that you

00:37:57.520 are doing the right thing if it was super simple right you know i joke with my students say that's

00:38:02.980 why we call it work is that it's hard you know if it was easy we'd call it watching tv i mean so the

00:38:08.100 idea is that it should be a little hard because you really are working on your future and your future

00:38:12.020 is important so there's a phrase you use with a client you consult it's a it's the future is local

00:38:17.360 so the future is not a place like 2015 then back to the future but it is local what do you mean by

00:38:22.160 that there's a couple of things in that so the future is local you know number one tries to get

00:38:27.300 people to understand that the future happens where they are right so if you're going to build your

00:38:31.920 future the future happens where you are and you've got to understand that so there's the people

00:38:36.880 around you the businesses around you the schools the communities that that's your future i mean

00:38:43.160 that's really the most important part of your future is all of those things so the future is

00:38:46.620 really local and i write about this in the book in that for some people though their future might

00:38:53.240 not be where they are so there's a there was a young woman who i her dad kind of brought me in

00:38:58.240 to kind of help her and she wanted to be an animator she wanted to be a animator for like pixar and

00:39:03.180 things like that and she was really talented and i was talking to her and i said you know and she

00:39:08.140 didn't live in emeryville she didn't live in california i said well you may want to think about if you

00:39:11.780 kind of if that's the goal you might need to move there like you might need to go and try to find a

00:39:17.140 job and you might need to move and the kind of the joke i told and it was you know if you want to be

00:39:21.740 a lumberjack you have to move to the forest so there's a few times that you may have to move to

00:39:27.000 your future now not always but it's having that conversation with yourself i think is important

00:39:31.580 and then if you realize no no my future is local my future is right here awesome so then you start

00:39:35.960 thinking about all right so what is around me who am i working with what are the things around me what

00:39:41.500 are the who are the people and it really starts to focus you and kind of get you thinking about what

00:39:46.360 that might look like and then also to understand that it doesn't happen you know over in washington

00:39:52.380 dc or in silicon valley or in london or in beijing right or anything like that like the future is is is

00:39:58.660 that kind of local and it i what i'm trying to do is then it goes back to that empowering of people

00:40:02.960 to really get them thinking about okay what are the resources and people around me that are going

00:40:07.900 to help me transform that future and to focus locally the other thing that i've really learned

00:40:13.020 in the past year and this is what the the pandemic really taught us back in 2020 is the future is

00:40:18.380 really local when it comes to these sort of large events i think we've all seen that it really is about

00:40:24.300 the people around you i mean it really is about the community that you're in and really embracing

00:40:29.460 that and how important that can be and so i think that as well can be a really empowering way when

00:40:34.600 you think about the future so the end of the book you are talking to a general i think it was at west

00:40:40.060 point you're at west point and he was basically i like what you're saying but he said basically said

00:40:46.220 like plans are useless like things are always changing and rapidly complex environments you can't

00:40:51.740 figure it out so it's probably not very useful what was your response to him

00:40:56.980 and so yeah there's this there's this great eisenhower quote that you know he used it a

00:41:02.680 couple times throughout the the 20th century around that basically plans are useless but planning is

00:41:08.200 everything which he's right actually he's very right and it goes back to kind of what we talked

00:41:13.400 about a little earlier in the podcast is that you know it's the act of thinking this way it's the act

00:41:20.380 of planning and i told him that we basically are agreeing because again that future is not fixed

00:41:25.280 and it goes back to that idea that yeah you can have a plan but know that that plan's going to

00:41:30.480 change that's planning right and and to me it's that that muscle of thinking in this way thinking

00:41:36.480 like a futurist thinking about the future you talking to people about it going and making changes and

00:41:41.880 being okay when things change and again from a military standpoint right you know what do they say

00:41:46.700 you know with strategies the first casualty of a battle is is the is the uh is the plan or the is

00:41:52.620 the strategy going in because things change so much but i think by accepting that and not thinking

00:41:57.640 that as failure but actually using that as a way to continually change oh yeah well i knew something

00:42:02.180 would happen oh that's interesting how might i make a change what might i do it allows you as an

00:42:06.300 individual to be more resilient it allows as an organization or family or a business you to be

00:42:11.420 more resilient as well mike tyson said it best is everyone has a plan until they get punched in the

00:42:15.420 face yes exactly well and here's the thing going back to tyson and going back to this is that one of

00:42:25.120 the things also over the pandemic and things like that it's the training so the training of thinking

00:42:29.420 this way you'll find that and i do this with my clients in my in my private practice is organizations

00:42:36.540 who do this people who do this people who have trained themselves to think this way that you're right

00:42:42.120 even when you do get punched in the face you know what to do you're like okay now i know what to do

00:42:46.540 i've been punched in the face before i thought about this right or you've made a change you say oh

00:42:50.820 okay i've been thinking about this future and this technology comes in oh okay well that's new how

00:42:55.020 might that affect me and actually there's a there's some research that was done back in 2020 with some

00:43:00.640 trade associations i do a lot of work with supply chain trade associations and of course as you can

00:43:05.440 imagine during the pandemic they had a lot of problems and they found actually that

00:43:09.600 organizations that thought like this that thought like a futurist that used this futurist work

00:43:14.360 actually were able to adapt to this global destabilization for about three to four months

00:43:21.500 in advance of their competition which gave them a strategic advantage and that's all that training

00:43:26.600 that's all about you know going through that training so that when these things start to happen

00:43:30.740 you're like okay i've kind of thought about this before i've trained for this before and then you

00:43:34.660 know what to do well brian this has been a great conversation where can people go to learn more

00:43:38.180 about the book in your work so i think probably the best place is uh go to my twitter feed that's

00:43:42.680 where i try to just post everything about kind of what i'm doing and what i'm writing and that's

00:43:46.960 just at bdj futurist that's really probably the best way to track me down fantastic well brian

00:43:51.740 david johnson thanks for your time it's been a pleasure brett was great chatting with you my

00:43:55.660 guest today was brian david johnson he's the author of the book the future you it's available on

00:43:59.120 amazon.com and bookstores everywhere if you'd like to learn more about this book and delve deeper

00:44:02.800 on this topic make sure to check out our show notes at awim.is slash future you

00:44:06.160 well that wraps up another edition of the awim podcast check out our website at artofmanliness.com

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The Art of Manliness - August 11, 2021

A Futurist's Guide to Building the Life You Want

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