The Art of Manliness - Answers to the FAQ of Modern Etiquette

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast

00:00:10.980 the charge to be well-mannered to treat others with civility kindness and respect is perennial

00:00:16.180 but the rules for how to carry those manners into action the rules of good etiquette change

00:00:20.920 over time given all the cultural and technological changes modern society has experienced it's not

00:00:26.040 always easy to know the best practices for a contemporary gentleman here to offer some

00:00:30.380 guidance on that front is thomas farley also known as mr manners today on the show thomas offers some

00:00:35.580 answers to the frequently asked questions around modern etiquette including when to send a

00:00:39.560 handwritten thank you note whether no problem is an appropriate response to thank you if it's okay

00:00:44.380 to go someone how to deal with our ever proliferating and out of control tipping culture whether it's

00:00:49.480 okay to exclude kids from your wedding if you just still open a door for a woman and more after the 1.00

00:00:54.820 check out our show notes at aom.is etiquette faq all right thomas farley welcome to the show

00:01:16.580 brett thanks so much for having me great to be here so you are mr manners you're an etiquette expert a

00:01:22.380 communication expert you do trainings for businesses around the world around the country and i wanted to

00:01:27.840 bring you on to talk about manners and etiquette in general but also hopefully we can answer some

00:01:32.580 common questions that people have about etiquette and manners because it seems like it's constantly

00:01:37.860 changing especially with the introduction of new technologies that we have so i think this will be a

00:01:42.480 fun conversation let's talk about manners in general i think a lot of people listening might think

00:01:47.380 well you know manners it's contrived it's artificial it's phony it's not authentic why do you think it's

00:01:53.180 still important to know and follow rules of etiquette sure and i think just for the listeners benefit

00:02:01.220 it's really important for us to distinguish between manners and etiquette because they actually they're

00:02:06.480 used often interchangeably but they do mean different things so etiquette is it's derives from the french

00:02:13.340 word for ticket so think about etiquette as your ticket to getting more and better interactions so

00:02:21.140 when you're speaking with someone when you're in an unfamiliar situation by following the rules of

00:02:26.480 etiquette you're guaranteed less embarrassment and more satisfaction for both parties to the interaction

00:02:32.940 that's etiquette and etiquette changes it evolves over time so people think oh etiquette they immediately go to

00:02:40.200 someone drinking out of a teacup where they've got their pinky raised in the air or they think about

00:02:45.040 dining etiquette but the fact is there's etiquette that governs just about everything we do throughout

00:02:50.600 the day so etiquette in an elevator etiquette for who steps to the right when you're on a sidewalk

00:02:56.720 and so on and so without rules of etiquette similar to the rules of driving we'd have more accidents

00:03:03.580 we'd have more upsetting situations so etiquette really is valuable and important and it evolves

00:03:09.200 manners on the other hand is a general sense of kindness and consideration toward others which

00:03:15.800 of course can incorporate etiquette but manners doesn't come so much with rules it's more just

00:03:20.860 a general sense of empathy and kindness and consideration towards others around us so they're

00:03:26.420 both important and i'm so glad to be able to spend this time with you because this idea that etiquette

00:03:32.940 is some crusty old thing that only your grandma still cares about couldn't be farther from the truth

00:03:38.260 without etiquette we would have no civilized society so it's really important i like that

00:03:43.600 distinction between manners and etiquette so manners is just thinking about making the other person feel

00:03:48.760 good and comfortable yes and that might require some the greeks would call it phronesis or practical

00:03:54.700 wisdom right kind of judgment it might differ from person to person etiquette is more like the rules

00:04:00.560 of the road i really like that analogy of traffic rules if there were no traffic laws there'd just be

00:04:05.800 chaos the same goes for our social interaction if there are any sort of guidelines to follow then

00:04:10.320 it would just everything would just be friction filled and not fun that's exactly right and sometimes

00:04:16.260 the rules of etiquette can seem a little bit arbitrary and in fact in some cases they are very

00:04:21.720 arbitrary but that doesn't mean that they're not important so in the same way that in the u.s we drive on

00:04:27.860 the right hand side of the road and in most situations that works quite well whereas in the uk they drive on

00:04:34.160 the left side of the road and in most situations that works perfectly well the fact is that there

00:04:38.840 is a set of guidelines that everyone is aware of so that we can all interact and focus on far more

00:04:44.580 important things than what side of the road do you drive on or what side of the table setting your fork is

00:04:51.220 so so etiquette really does play that that vital role although it can seem quite arbitrary well i think

00:04:57.220 everyone's experienced social interactions where etiquette isn't practiced and you see these videos on the

00:05:02.340 internet a lot now are just people just yelling at each other and it's like if they just were to

00:05:05.960 practice a little bit of etiquette they could have avoided all that yes it's true and i think there are

00:05:11.400 a lot of reasons for what we're seeing and seeing literally seeing and i think one of the primary

00:05:16.820 drivers of it is the fact that we all have an independent television studio in our pockets wherever we go

00:05:24.640 so an interaction that might not have been caught on camera that happens on an airplane between

00:05:30.500 somebody who wants to take more than their share of an armrest can easily go viral in ways that it

00:05:36.700 wouldn't have before so there's definitely this perception that etiquette is worse than ever that

00:05:41.900 manners are worse than ever but frankly you can read news accounts and textbooks from 100 years ago

00:05:49.680 600 years ago where you hear people saying gosh people have no etiquette anymore people have no manners

00:05:55.480 anymore i think there were definitely throughout recorded history there are times where if you think

00:06:01.320 etiquette is bad today boy it was really horrific in the middle ages when for example no one was able

00:06:10.080 to afford their own napkin and if you were at a banquet there was a towel that hung on the wall

00:06:15.180 and that was the napkin for everyone to use for throughout the meal so you didn't even have an

00:06:19.440 individual napkin or where something as seemingly simple as a fork was seen as an affectation and

00:06:26.840 the only utensils that were were used up until even pre-colonial times in the united states were a spoon

00:06:33.120 and a knife and anything else that required more dexterity than that you were using your hands

00:06:37.260 so we might think etiquette is really at all-time lows right now but the fact is we're more refined than

00:06:44.900 we sometimes give ourselves credit for and history is certainly a guide to the fact that times have

00:06:50.220 not always been so mannerly despite what our our memories or our history books might say otherwise

00:06:55.240 all right so let's get into some specific etiquette and manners questions let's talk about thank you

00:07:00.920 notes when do you think a handwritten thank you note is appropriate i would say a handwritten thank

00:07:06.180 you note is never inappropriate so i get this question quite a lot you know is it okay if i send a

00:07:12.800 thank you note and to that question i say it is so much more than okay in an age where everything is

00:07:18.680 digital we're texting we're sending dms on snapchat or tiktok the idea that someone actually took the

00:07:25.900 time to remark on a courtesy or something that we did for them that was a kind gesture with a handwritten

00:07:33.540 note that they licked the envelope and they put a stamp on it and put it in the mail i think it's a

00:07:38.140 wonderful way of expressing thanks so i would say there is frankly there is no the only occasion i

00:07:43.760 would say a thank you note is just kind of ridiculous is to send someone a thank you note for

00:07:49.400 sending you a thank you note but all all other instances the job interview the dinner party that

00:07:55.620 you were invited to certainly the birthday gift or the holiday gift that someone gave you i'm fond of

00:08:00.880 saying text messages don't get pinned up to refrigerators or cork boards thank you notes do

00:08:06.680 they get saved and if you want to be that person who shows that you truly appreciated the gesture of

00:08:12.480 the individual no matter how small a thank you note is a wonderful way of doing so so you still

00:08:16.700 recommend a thank you note a handwritten thank you note after a job interview because i remember that

00:08:20.300 was the advice that i got 15 years ago but is that still applicable today you think yeah i would

00:08:25.460 highly recommend it if you if you care about getting the job and here's the reason think about it

00:08:30.020 you may be up against five six seven other candidates if all things are equal and one of

00:08:36.500 those candidates actually sends a thank you note i guarantee you it's going to help you be set apart

00:08:41.460 the person's going to see that you're detail oriented especially if you send it out quickly so for a job

00:08:45.880 interview what i recommend if you're going for and this is it's harder frankly brett in the age of

00:08:50.760 virtual where you may not be interviewing with someone in person that person may be half a world away

00:08:56.420 and they're not even working in an office because they're 100 remote so there it gets trickier for a

00:09:01.780 job interview thank you note but if you were going to a traditional job interview at a corporate office

00:09:06.900 building you have the address of the person who's there five days a week or even three days a week

00:09:11.180 i would bring a thank you note blank one to the interview i would immediately after the interview i'd

00:09:18.620 write it out have your stamp ready to go and pop it in the nearest mailbox and you know fingers

00:09:23.220 crossed the usps does what it's supposed to do that thank you note is there with the person who

00:09:27.680 interviewed you within a day or two of your interview it shows you to be on top of your game

00:09:32.760 it shows you to be grateful and it shows that you're really passionate about getting the position so

00:09:36.660 i think it's a great practice to have so you mentioned the thank you to a thank you you don't

00:09:42.460 want to do that generally but my wife and i we do that because sometimes readers and listeners they

00:09:46.640 send us nice notes thanking us for aom's content saying how it's changed their life and so we often you

00:09:51.940 know we just write back and just say hey we appreciate the appreciation i mean i we really

00:09:55.720 do it is nice to hear from our listeners that they're getting something out of this stuff yes and

00:10:01.980 i would i would draw the distinction so i think if someone's taking the trouble to send you to write

00:10:06.800 you a handwritten thank you note i would absolutely acknowledge the receipt of the thank you note but to

00:10:12.180 write them a thank you note as a thank you for them sending you a thank you note it starts this

00:10:17.040 cascade effect of okay when do the thank you notes end it starts to get a little bit silly

00:10:21.040 but i would absolutely acknowledge it and i think that's a wonderful thing to do because

00:10:25.180 if someone takes the time to write a thank you note and they never hear from the recipient oh my

00:10:29.540 gosh i just got your thank you note that was so thoughtful thank you then they may be discouraged

00:10:34.840 from doing it the next time because they feel like their gesture didn't really have any kind of

00:10:38.360 an impact so i would absolutely acknowledge it but you don't need to acknowledge it with a thank

00:10:43.180 you note okay so it's nice to acknowledge a thank you note but you don't need to send a thank

00:10:47.420 you note like an actual like a thank you card in response to someone's thank you card so you

00:10:53.220 mentioned writing thank you notes to the host of a party you attended i know this was common a couple

00:10:58.520 decades ago my parents still do this my in-laws do this too but you think yeah that that's still

00:11:04.340 an appropriate gesture if you're hoping to be invited back i would highly recommend that and

00:11:10.700 not just a generic thank you note that doesn't really say anything of value but truly something

00:11:17.500 that that remarks on perhaps a dish that you particularly enjoyed the conversation that you

00:11:22.460 had with the host that you particularly enjoyed something that doesn't sound like your ai writing

00:11:28.040 the thank you note but that it's truly got that human touch and i would say so dinner party absolutely

00:11:34.100 i mean you think about the amount of time that goes into cleaning and curating the table and

00:11:39.420 cooking and from start to finish anyone who's ever hosted a dinner party knows the amount of work

00:11:45.800 that goes into it and how exhausting it can be if you can't take five minutes really is all it should

00:11:50.880 take to write a thoughtful thank you note i think that's that's really unfortunate and people say i'm

00:11:56.180 too busy i don't have time well you know what you had time to go to the to the dinner party you had

00:12:01.620 time to enjoy the meal you had time to enjoy the present someone gave you five minutes to write a

00:12:06.560 thank you note i really no matter how busy we all are i i don't ever buy that excuse well let's talk

00:12:11.700 about just saying thank you in face-to-face interactions what's an appropriate response

00:12:15.960 when someone says thank you this is because this causes a lot of debate because a lot of people

00:12:19.240 they say no problem and a lot of people do not like that what's your take on that so brett this is

00:12:25.040 this is fun because there are you know from the time we're small we're taught you know what's the

00:12:31.180 magic word right say the magic word you want a lollipop you know you've got to say please

00:12:35.660 someone gives something to you you've got to say thank you and somewhere along the way some of those

00:12:40.680 magic words both generationally and and through time have lost a little bit of their original true

00:12:47.260 intent so thank you i think is a perfect thing to say and that really that's unassailable saying thank

00:12:55.480 you as gratitude for something as long as you're saying it genuinely and not in a sarcastic way or

00:12:59.700 if you're texting and it's thank you period well now you know what now you don't sound so gracious

00:13:05.760 anymore now you sound like you're being sarcastic so taking the benefit of the doubt that someone's

00:13:10.820 genuinely saying thank you to someone for something that another person has done kind to them saying no

00:13:16.320 problem is almost like you're swatting away the thanks which i think is unfortunate so you know some

00:13:22.740 of the finest hotels in the world they know to instruct their staff that no problem as a

00:13:29.520 response to thank you is simply not acceptable and this is not something that's unique to the

00:13:35.760 english language so in spanish it's de nada which means it's nothing in french it's de rien which

00:13:43.680 similarly is it's nothing and that's really that's to belittle the the gratitude that's coming from the

00:13:50.220 person so rather than simply saying no problem or if you're canadian no worries or if you're a child of the

00:13:58.580 1950s maybe you say no sweats these phrases really take a thank you and they push it down they subjugate

00:14:07.400 it which i think is important so rather than saying no problem i highly recommend something instead like

00:14:14.260 happy to do it or any time or it's my pleasure there is also of course the standard response of

00:14:22.620 you're welcome but that one has taken on a little bit of a generational taint where pretty much anyone

00:14:28.700 from millennial on down through gen z tends to look at you're welcome as a little bit smug almost as if

00:14:36.140 to say you know you're welcome for the nice thing that i did and i'm glad that you appreciated it perhaps

00:14:41.260 owning the gratitude a little bit too much now this is not something that older generations see in that

00:14:46.300 phrase you're welcome but the way it's parsed by younger generations it can often have that taint so i

00:14:51.740 recommend as a great alternative no matter how old you are is simply it's my pleasure and for anyone

00:14:58.940 who's traveled through costa rica as i have what really struck me upon my first visit there was

00:15:04.060 they do not say that de facto spanish response of de nada everything if you say gracias they respond

00:15:10.900 immediately with con gusto with pleasure and i think it's such a nicer way of acknowledging someone's

00:15:17.360 gratitude i think that's an important point about how language evolves with generations so i think

00:15:23.380 you're welcome maybe for younger generations they might not you might not want to use that with them

00:15:27.240 maybe with an older person yes but i think yeah i i typically go the chick-fil-a route and just say

00:15:32.000 my pleasure yes after someone says thank you and then you see the same sort of dynamic with compliments

00:15:37.580 so yes you go up to somebody and you give them this compliment like hey you did a great job on that and

00:15:42.660 they kind of swatted away by saying oh no worries or it was nothing yes i mean i think if you receive

00:15:47.820 a compliment be grateful for the call like someone's you know kind of putting themselves out there to

00:15:51.980 say you did a great job so uh you know recognize that recognize it own it and and i think the reason

00:15:58.000 that phenomenon is exists is people can tend to be a little bit shy about receiving and accepting a

00:16:05.420 compliment they don't know what to say right you know oh oh i love your shirt uh that's a great shirt oh

00:16:10.440 this old thing right you immediately your reaction is to just swat it away as if it's not something

00:16:15.640 that's that's important and you don't want to be seen as egotistical so i think a great fix for that

00:16:21.340 as someone who really wants to be hyper aware of how to be able to give a compliment without getting

00:16:26.640 that react that particular reaction you just described is to immediately follow up the compliment

00:16:31.520 with a question so instead of saying you know hey great haircut or hey great i love your shirt

00:16:37.940 where the person is maybe put in the position of having to diminish the compliment oh no this shirt's

00:16:43.780 nothing i you know it was five bucks instead meet following up with a question so hey great sure uh

00:16:50.620 you know is that a color that you wear often or hey great haircut where do you go to get your

00:16:54.680 haircuts by the way so you've instead of putting them to that awkward position of having to somehow

00:16:59.560 think of a way to respond to your compliment you're immediately following up with a question which gives

00:17:03.940 them something to talk about that doesn't entail having to diminish the compliment i was going to

00:17:08.440 say on the no problem response to thank you the other thing that i don't like about that it's it makes

00:17:14.720 you makes the person feel like oh what i asked you for was a problem like i'm a problem for you

00:17:18.940 so yeah that's another reason i don't like the no problem so let's shift our focus to digital

00:17:24.220 communication texting a lot of our communication is done via text what's your take is there an appropriate

00:17:30.140 time frame for answering a text sure so this is going to vary widely first of all do you have read

00:17:36.780 receipts on on your phone so if the other individual can see that you've received and read the text then

00:17:45.400 waiting hours to respond is not acceptable if you have an established kind of unspoken time for responding

00:17:55.560 amongst whether it's your significant other whether it's your best friend whether it's your boss whether

00:18:00.720 it's people who work for you if you are someone who as a practice generally responds within five minutes

00:18:08.420 within an hour suddenly taking hours or days to respond it's out of character and out of practice for

00:18:15.720 you the other person is going to think oh no what happened did i offend the person did i say something

00:18:20.280 wrong so i think there are certainly conversations that are not best had over text by the same token if

00:18:28.300 this is a quick question somebody needs a quick answer and you traditionally respond quickly you should

00:18:35.740 follow suit now now that being said and i love texting because it is absence of so much of the

00:18:42.140 formality that an email might require it is asynchronous communication so it can happen when it's

00:18:49.520 convenient for me and the recipient can respond when it's perhaps more convenient for them unlike a

00:18:54.500 phone call or unlike a face-to-face conversation but there are definitely conversations that are not

00:18:59.480 appropriate for a text message i mean if you really want a thorough detailed answer that has multiple

00:19:06.060 layers let's face it texting is not your friend but if you say you know what time are we meeting again

00:19:11.740 what's the address of where the restaurant is these are perfect opportunities for us to be able to text

00:19:18.600 so i would say you know all things being equal you should be certainly responding to a text within

00:19:25.260 the hour if it's not a very nuanced conversation and if it is i would simply respond back you know

00:19:32.300 hey let's catch up about this by phone or it's it's a little bit too much for text when can we talk

00:19:38.240 and i think that would be the better way but to wait hours or forget it days not acceptable

00:19:44.000 yeah we had a digital communications expert on the show erica dewan and her recommendation for text is

00:19:52.380 if you get a text and you can't get to it right away you know like within an hour she recommends doing

00:19:58.140 what she calls a manual read receipt so you know if someone asks you something and it requires you to

00:20:04.460 look into something it's a sensitive subject and you don't have the time to give them a full response at

00:20:09.440 the moment so you just respond right away saying hey i got your message i'm really slammed right now

00:20:15.300 but i'll check into it and let you know by tomorrow morning or you know something else could be like

00:20:19.260 hey it's really crazy for me today i want to give your question some thought i'll get back to you

00:20:24.160 tonight and what that can do is it can help people who are i don't know i think you know some people

00:20:29.260 don't care when they get their text answered but for some people an unanswered text you know it creates

00:20:34.620 like this open loop in their mind and they're wondering about what's going on or they worry

00:20:39.860 that they said something wrong so it can sit on their bandwidth and you can help them help them

00:20:44.160 with that by saying hey i got your message i'll get back to you soon so i've used that before and

00:20:49.620 i it seems to be appreciated so i like that one very much the ideal of acknowledgement it's the same

00:20:55.560 thing brett you know we walk into a department store and or or uh you know a shop a boutique and

00:21:01.140 we're waiting to be waited upon by the person who is the sales clerk there and they're chatting with

00:21:07.800 their co-worker maybe they get a phone call from a customer and you're thinking here i am a live

00:21:12.480 person standing in your store wanting to transact business with you and i haven't even been acknowledged

00:21:17.900 you've made no eye contact with me you haven't given me the i'll be there in one second finger

00:21:22.800 gesture this makes us feel like we're not being seen we're not being acknowledged and it can be

00:21:28.200 annoying and so the same with whether it's a text message that just goes unanswered or frankly even

00:21:33.040 email which i think email is is the larger culprit for feeling like our communications are being

00:21:39.440 ignored how many emails do we receive a day and send a day where there's just simply no response

00:21:45.100 where a response is being asked for and because we're swamped because we don't have all the answers

00:21:50.000 we don't respond or we take days or sometimes weeks to respond i think that simple acknowledgement

00:21:55.500 if it's something you can't work on in that moment uh you know got it you know i'll have an answer for

00:22:01.080 you by friday is far better than just not responding at all or forcing the person to have to be

00:22:06.840 constantly checking in with that infamous line hey brett just checking in on such and such you know

00:22:13.700 which how many of those emails do we write a week so i think the the bit of acknowledgement really

00:22:18.380 does go a long way texting or emailing we're gonna take a quick break for a word from our sponsors

00:22:25.500 and now back to the show well this kind of goes to my next question what do you think about

00:22:35.640 ghosting someone so this happens in dating it's where you go on a date and the date wasn't great

00:22:42.340 and the person texts you and you just ignore them but this can happen also professionally or in other

00:22:47.360 instances where someone emails you a request or something like that and you just ignore them

00:22:53.240 it's kind of ghosting what's your take on that i i think there are certain instances where i would

00:23:00.340 say ghosting is defensible so maybe someone has even a good friend has done something to you that is

00:23:08.620 highly offensive or highly insulting and they're simply not apologizing for it or they don't see

00:23:14.840 the error of their ways or you had a date with someone who was you know just someone who really

00:23:21.480 frightened you in a lot of ways and you're not looking for any further engagement with that individual

00:23:26.660 i think in those cases just for for the sake of personal safety if not your own sanity ghosting might

00:23:33.720 be the best way to go or maybe it's someone who just gets a little bit too text happy and is constantly

00:23:41.040 texting you or maybe you're on a group text thread and you know every little thing is is being sent you know

00:23:48.820 oh hey everybody here's what i had for lunch this this afternoon and you're thinking my gosh i've got

00:23:54.120 work to do so not responding to each and every interaction i think in those instances is perfectly

00:24:00.620 fine if someone needs your feedback on something and there's someone that you care about and you are

00:24:07.120 the only stakeholder in this interaction who holds the cards who holds the answer and they're seeking

00:24:12.960 an answer from you whether it's a co-worker whether it's a loved one a sister a parent

00:24:16.880 or a prospective spouse or significant other to just completely ignore them for no explicable reason

00:24:23.580 that i would not say is acceptable like maybe you had a date and the date was just awful and someone

00:24:32.360 you know text you and says hey i had a great time last night would love to see you again you know i think

00:24:39.460 if if need be i would still send that person a gentle text without being too harsh in the way you

00:24:46.620 phrase it if someone is uh you know a sane individual who is looking to have an interaction

00:24:52.200 with you that for some reason you're just not interested in continuing far better to shut it

00:24:57.220 down politely rather than let the person wonder oh you know did the person fall off a boat is maybe

00:25:02.840 they lost their phone you know maybe they're traveling they don't have signal they go through all these

00:25:07.120 crazy scenarios far better to dispel all of those conspiracy scenarios about why someone's not

00:25:13.720 responding to you and just be straightforward with an answer but if it's a question of personal

00:25:18.300 safety or you've been genuinely aggrieved or offended by someone and they know it then in those

00:25:24.280 cases i think ghosting would be completely acceptable and defensible etiquette wise okay so ghosting it

00:25:30.700 depends i think it's interesting about the ghosting thing is hinge the dating app they did a survey and

00:25:37.100 they found that 85 percent of dating app users say they'd like to be rejected directly but i think

00:25:43.460 i think sometimes people just say that i don't i don't oftentimes think people don't really actually

00:25:47.840 want to be rejected directly because it hurts but i mean i guess i think it's going to just depend on the

00:25:53.240 person i i think there there are ways to make it sting less and i think if this is a dating situation

00:26:00.220 and you've had one date and you know there was not a love connection ideally both parties feel the lack of

00:26:07.160 love connection and in that case maybe you just ghost each other and that's the best of all worlds

00:26:12.020 but of course sometimes you do have those situations where one person's really into the other person and the

00:26:16.860 other person's just not i'd far rather as as hurtful as it probably is in those initial days

00:26:23.820 that sting will subside uh versus just not hearing from the individual at all i think it's i think it's

00:26:32.280 really and especially if you've had multiple dates then i'm sorry ghosting is not acceptable if this if

00:26:39.500 this was a single date and in your eyes it was a complete disaster but for some unknown reason to the

00:26:45.060 other party it was a roaring success well uh that person maybe needs a reality check but i still think

00:26:52.820 that they would be deserving of if they're really earnestly coming back to you i had such a wonderful

00:26:57.700 time i can't wait to see you again that was terrific to not respond at all i think is really

00:27:03.160 inconsiderate so then it's really all about how you respond and what do you say and i think there are

00:27:08.340 ways of letting someone down easy and i think it could even be something as simple as you know hey i

00:27:14.080 enjoyed meeting you i just don't feel there's a love connection or i just i can't really commit to

00:27:19.880 anything right now you know wishing you the best will hurt sure for someone who's really into you

00:27:25.800 but far nicer to do that than just disappear okay let's talk about continuous idea of technology

00:27:31.920 phones everyone's got a phone with them all the time and a lot of people when they go to eat they

00:27:37.780 leave their phone on the table during dinner okay not okay i'm not a fan so whether you're at

00:27:45.780 dinner with your family in your kitchen or your dining room or whether you're out to dinner in a

00:27:51.600 restaurant you know when you think of how difficult it is to coordinate schedules for a family to sit

00:27:57.100 down to dinner to coordinate schedules for a family to be in a restaurant or a group of friends to be in

00:28:02.800 a restaurant it's not easy the fact that then we spend at least even a small percentage of our time

00:28:10.120 looking at our phones instagramming our food checking text messages i think it takes us out of

00:28:15.800 the moment and i think it's really unfortunate so i think certainly there are times and they're rare

00:28:21.460 where you need to be contacted because there's some impending massive news that you need to be

00:28:27.240 available for you know you're at a business lunch but your wife may be going into labor you are a real

00:28:34.120 estate agent who's on the verge of closing a big big deal that could be happening within the hour

00:28:39.540 in those cases if you're out to lunch with someone in a restaurant i would own that uh information

00:28:45.760 up front you know brett i'm i'm so sorry you know i'm not going to be on my phone i just do need to

00:28:51.000 say you know there's a chance my wife may be going into labor the office is closing a huge deal 1.00

00:28:56.280 i may need to briefly step away from the table to take a quick call this is the way to handle that

00:29:01.740 but putting the phone out on the table has actually been proven in studies to

00:29:06.100 create anxiety just literally the sight of a phone on a table makes us anxious makes us distracted and

00:29:14.020 takes us out of the moment so i'd put that phone away if you're wearing a blazer put it in the pocket

00:29:19.320 put it in the pocket of your pants but keep it away from the table absolutely unvibrate and if you must

00:29:25.300 must must take a call do so away from the table not with all of your table mates sitting around kept

00:29:31.640 hostage to your conversation okay so if you plan on receiving a text let people know up front i have

00:29:36.520 a friend who's a anesthesiologist so when he's on call he'll let us know he's like hey guys i'm on

00:29:41.440 call so i might have to i might have to text i might get a text i have to go away and that's always

00:29:46.300 appreciated another interesting dynamic i've noticed in the past couple of years is the smart

00:29:51.020 watch so you might have the phone in your pocket but you got this device in your wrist where you get

00:29:55.320 notifications on your watch is it okay to check the notifications that buzz on your smart watch

00:30:00.680 during dinner what i like about the smart watch in one sense it's a little bit more discreet than

00:30:07.260 actually pulling out a cell phone and scrolling by the same token it's still the same concept you're

00:30:13.020 still being your attention and your energy is being pulled away from the dynamic of the folks that

00:30:19.180 you're dining with and being directed towards your device and so for that reason whether it's haptic

00:30:25.840 feedback where it's vibrating on your arm or pulsating or flashing it's still a distraction

00:30:31.700 and unless you're an anesthesiologist i would not recommend if you want to be polite to your table

00:30:37.440 mates i'd not recommend acknowledging so i'd silence those notifications or if you're wearing a long

00:30:43.400 sleeve shirt maybe it's even as simple as pulling the sleeve down so you're not tempted to look at the

00:30:47.680 watch gotcha all right let's talk about tipping so there's been a lot of articles over the last year

00:30:53.080 about how tipping is out of control every restaurant and service provider seems to ask for a tip these

00:30:59.040 days even when they're just doing straight up like it's just a cashier job and they just flip the

00:31:03.580 screen around and you get that prompt asking if you want to leave a tip and you feel like there's

00:31:08.700 pressure to do so because when they turn around they're going to see whether you gave them a tip or

00:31:12.880 not so what's the state of tipping today when should you tip and when should you not sure so this is

00:31:18.940 something that there has been a sea change in our culture in the way we are interacting with service

00:31:26.680 individuals not only in that kind of what's known as quick serve restaurant type interaction where

00:31:33.640 you're picking something up at a counter as opposed to sitting down in a restaurant but the last couple

00:31:38.280 of weeks i've been reading about airports where you're being prompted for a tip at a self-serve

00:31:44.280 kiosk where you're getting food or you're getting some sort of an airport trinket where you're actually

00:31:50.880 being asked for a tip so it's exploded beyond our worst nightmares and i think it's it's a very

00:31:57.960 concerning trend for me i'm it's known in in the popular press as either tip creep or tipflation are

00:32:05.480 the two terms you'll hear quite a lot i'm taking to calling this the tipping invasion because i really

00:32:10.960 feel that when we are living in a culture we're living in a society where you're being expected

00:32:16.400 to tip it absolutely every turn for absolutely every interaction there's really the genie is out

00:32:22.800 of the bottle and there is there is no line that's being drawn any longer and i think that is really

00:32:27.640 it's frightening because we're rapidly marching toward a culture where i think you'll be expected to

00:32:33.320 tip your dental hygienist you'll be expected to tip your auto mechanic and it's it's diluted

00:32:40.160 what a tip is really designed to do which is to reward an individual who works in a service industry

00:32:48.500 where by the structure of the industry their pay is actually less than minimum wage so for example a

00:32:55.320 server in a sit-down restaurant often is being paid two dollars and change an hour not a livable wage

00:33:01.420 by any stretch it's only through the use of tips which is part of the compact we know when we enter

00:33:06.820 restaurant we know when we sit down in a restaurant that we are going to be tipping and that is

00:33:11.660 something that we happily accept and happily do but the idea that you picked up a bag of potato chips

00:33:17.480 on a convenience store shelf at a gas station and suddenly you're being faced with a tip screen how

00:33:22.780 much would you like to tip for this interaction it's something because simply because the technology

00:33:28.140 allows this to happen does not mean that culturally it is acceptable and so that feeling that people get

00:33:34.640 when they suddenly see that screen and those amounts that are also increasing so it's not even

00:33:39.340 that they're asking for a five percent tip they might be asking for a 25 or 30 percent tip for these

00:33:44.740 very basic interactions with individuals who are being paid a minimum wage or more people are feeling

00:33:51.740 what is called the guilt tip so you're tipping simply because you feel guilty not just because

00:33:57.440 they're going to see it when they flip the screen around but everybody in line behind you is going to be

00:34:01.700 seeing how much you tip you know they're looking over your shoulder to see which box you tap

00:34:05.980 so it's it's confusing in a time of high inflation consumers are really feeling their pocketbooks are

00:34:12.680 being pinched at every turn and this is a big part of that and i find it to be a very very concerning

00:34:18.160 trend so i think this is an interesting dynamic because i think a decade ago the concern that people had

00:34:24.380 was maybe i'm not tipping enough right maybe i need to tip more because people were kind of

00:34:30.200 confused about well do i tip this person or that person now it seems like the concern is like i should

00:34:34.860 tip less i need to be tipping less because i'm being asked to tip in inappropriate situations

00:34:40.060 well it's true and you know the simple fact is there's only so much discretionary budget

00:34:46.420 any one individual has no matter how well off they are and if every single interaction you know i live in

00:34:52.940 new york city and there's we call this the departure tax that every time you literally walk out

00:34:58.620 your door in new york there's a 20 departure tax there's 20 that you simply don't know where it went

00:35:04.280 it went somewhere but you know you started 20 richer before you walked out the door i think it's the same

00:35:10.000 now happening across the country with tipping you're suddenly being asked to tip for just about

00:35:15.800 everything you buy in every service store and shop and restaurant you walk into and i think what's going

00:35:23.040 to happen i really think it's going to diminish the amount of money that any one individual has to tip

00:35:28.920 the people who really rely on tipping income because they're being asked to tip in so many other

00:35:34.500 establishments and that i think is really unfortunate let's face it you know stores restaurants had a

00:35:40.740 very difficult time during the pandemic and i think most consumers felt the need and it was a wonderful

00:35:45.900 thing to be extra generous knowing that these individuals these first responders in the service

00:35:51.780 industries were out there doing their thing while so many of us were working from home the pandemic

00:35:57.080 is over and yet those tipping levels those expectations and that guilt has remained and is

00:36:02.780 even being amplified and i think consumers are feeling rightfully resentful and as i say there's there is a

00:36:08.700 limit to the discretionary income any one individual has so i see servers and sit-down restaurants

00:36:15.860 actually having their tips suffering because there's simply not enough tipping income

00:36:21.520 tipping money to go around to everyone if that's if that's the culture that we're headed toward

00:36:26.040 okay so what would you say keep your tips for people in the food service industry bartenders like

00:36:31.620 maybe it's like the traditional stuff you would usually tip for 10 years ago maybe keep keep tipping for

00:36:35.840 that sure you know and we know what those are we're you know any any consumer has tipped enough in

00:36:41.600 their lifetime to know if you go for a haircut you're tipping on that if you go for a massage you're tipping

00:36:45.920 on that if you get a cocktail in a bar of course you're tipping on that and yes the sit-down restaurant

00:36:51.420 experiences it's all these new things tipping in those interactions it's discretionary if you feel

00:36:58.480 you are blessed and you feel you've had a wonderful experience and you want to share that that joy with

00:37:03.700 the person who's waited on you all the power to you you know nothing to say that you can't do it

00:37:08.960 but you should not feel obligated etiquette does not dictate that you should be tipping those

00:37:13.220 interactions those those individuals are being paid a minimum wage plus and what really should

00:37:19.120 be happening if the owners of the establishments feel that they can't attract good employees without

00:37:25.840 offering this as an option what they really need to be doing in my estimation is paying higher wages

00:37:31.860 and in turn if needed charging higher prices in restaurants and quick serve establishments but this

00:37:38.880 idea that the burden is being shifted to the consumer in this very awkward uncomfortable clumsy

00:37:44.460 interaction i don't like it and i think it really it bodes not good things for the service industry

00:37:51.720 and i think we should point out this is probably just an american problem other countries they don't

00:37:56.420 have like the tipping culture that we do it's it's true and that extends not just for this type of

00:38:02.440 quick serve tip where you have the tablet in front of you but even a sit-down restaurant in various

00:38:08.320 countries around the world throughout europe and asia you know some countries you they would actually

00:38:12.660 look at you quite askance maybe pleasantly surprised but even shocked if you gave them a tip so it's it's

00:38:19.040 baked into the equation in the united states we do have this tradition of tipping but you're absolutely

00:38:23.460 right this is not a global situation and i do hear from europeans but then they come to the united

00:38:28.380 states they are absolutely stupefied by the number of places where they're being asked to a tip

00:38:34.420 and in you know in the amounts that they're being asked when you do tip what do you think your should

00:38:39.440 be the standard tip amount or does it depend this so if we are in a restaurant and we're sitting down

00:38:45.980 and we're having a meal you know this this old standard of 15 being kind of your nice little baseline

00:38:52.160 that has gotten pretty antiquated at this point so and i read these studies very regularly the average

00:38:58.920 tip across the united states in a sit-down restaurant is hovering just above 19 as your baseline tip so if

00:39:05.660 you want to walk out of there feeling like you were daddy warbucks super generous and boy are they

00:39:10.900 going to be clicking their heels with joy at how much you gave them in a tip 20 is is not going to do

00:39:17.460 that 20 really is about the baseline that you're looking to tip and frankly i like the math better with

00:39:22.900 20 tip if you're calculating it in your head which you may not be but if you are 20 is a lot easier

00:39:28.040 to calculate than 15 but if you want to be generous you're really looking at more in the neighborhood

00:39:33.640 of 25 to 30 on a tip but if you want to be doing the bare minimum 20 so that will ensure you're not

00:39:41.080 getting dirty looks as you walk out of the restaurant which you would likely get if you tip 10 or 15

00:39:45.740 let's shift topics to weddings wedding season is upon us i'm sure there's lots of different questions

00:39:51.160 we could discuss about weddings but in general what's an area of wedding related etiquette that people

00:39:56.740 often neglect one of the biggest gripes i hear about is people who don't don't rsvp and if you

00:40:03.520 think about it brett could it be any easier not only do you get the invitation in the mail but you get

00:40:08.380 a reply card with a return address reply envelope with a stamp already on it all you have to do

00:40:15.880 literally is fill in your name and check a box that you are attending and pop it in the mail and you are

00:40:21.320 good to go so if you're lucky enough to be invited to a wedding and you want to attend you're able to

00:40:26.020 attend get that rsvp in quickly and no unpleasant surprises by doing a write-in ballot of someone's

00:40:33.060 name that you're bringing when there was no no guests invited and certainly you're not doing

00:40:37.900 any guerrilla attack by bringing a guest on the day of that's going to just cause havoc at the

00:40:43.060 wedding we don't want that that's a good point about rsvps that's for anything like whether wedding

00:40:48.220 or any other type if you get it if there's an rsvp make sure you do because people are trying to

00:40:51.220 figure out how much stuff they need to buy and it makes it hard when you don't do that

00:40:55.540 we're living in the age of maybe i think it's really unfortunate but i think you know sites

00:41:01.560 such as evite and you know facebook invitations we're we're now we're in this in this kind of

00:41:08.060 funny time period where people feel like well they've got enough invitations that they don't

00:41:12.880 know if they can commit or don't want to commit so the response is either no response at all until

00:41:17.820 the very last minute or a maybe response and i think that's really unhelpful to anyone who's

00:41:23.260 hosting it doesn't have to be a wedding as you say it could be any sort of occasion so if you're

00:41:27.080 invited to something waiting until you see if you get better offers not acceptable simply not replying

00:41:33.160 at all and then showing up not acceptable or saying yes and then not showing up and not letting the host

00:41:40.500 know you're not coming also not acceptable so think about when the shoe is on the other foot when

00:41:44.980 you're a host and you're trying to plan something and you have no idea on numbers it can really be

00:41:49.360 very it can convince you you never want to throw a party again so if you're lucky enough to be

00:41:53.880 invited to something let the host know even if it's no no is better than nothing and no is better than

00:42:00.000 an interminable maybe that never turns into a yes or a no let's say it's your wedding and uh you don't

00:42:07.280 want to have kids there is it okay to say you don't want kids this is this is a touchy touchy one

00:42:11.360 this is touchy and it's a question i get quite a lot and what i'd say to that is there are a lot

00:42:18.080 of reasons why you might want to have a wedding with no kids it could be budget it could be this

00:42:23.460 is a wedding in some kind of a nighttime night clubby type setting where it's just not really

00:42:29.320 a child-friendly environment or simply you feel like the adults deserve and want a night off from

00:42:36.220 their kids and and even parents who have two or three or four or five kids i often hear from them

00:42:41.860 oh gosh what a relief you know we were able to tell our kids you know we'd love to bring you but we

00:42:46.040 can't this is a wedding where children aren't invited those parents get a night off so i think

00:42:50.840 that can be a wonderful thing the key as the couple remember this is your wedding your rules whatever it

00:42:57.100 is that you decide you want to do you follow that but you've got to follow it consistently so

00:43:02.420 don't say no kids and then start making exceptions here and there because then suddenly it looks like

00:43:08.260 you're playing favorites and some of your guests who do have children who don't get to bring their

00:43:12.380 children they're going to feel resentful i would say the only exception that you might consider if you

00:43:17.940 are going to do a no child policy your wedding is perhaps there is a member of the bridal party like

00:43:24.460 a junior bridesmaid or the ring bearer the flower girl who typically are a close family member a

00:43:30.960 relative there you might make the exception but if just ordinary guests you start making the exception

00:43:36.520 because they couldn't find a babysitter that night you're really going to have some very other guests

00:43:41.180 who are quite unhappy that they were told they couldn't bring theirs whereas others did so destination

00:43:46.420 weddings are becoming more popular so you fly off to some exotic locale to get married and they invite

00:43:52.000 people and for the guests that can be a lot of money to get to these places if you get invited to a

00:43:57.760 destination wedding are you still obliged to get the couple a gift you are absolutely obliged so your

00:44:04.920 decision to attend a destination wedding is it's based on a couple of factors primarily your budget

00:44:11.520 can you afford to attend this destination wedding can you afford to fly there can you afford the babysitting

00:44:17.800 perhaps that you need can you afford the hotel accommodations the outfit that you might need that you

00:44:22.080 don't have because it's in a climate that you don't normally have dress clothes for

00:44:25.460 all of those are factors that you need to consider however the the travel budget the the cost that

00:44:32.320 it takes for you to actually be there that is not your gift so the your presence is not your present

00:44:37.740 in this case that needs to come from your own discretionary annual travel budget not from your budget for

00:44:45.740 wedding gifts so you don't scrimp on a gift for the couple simply because you feel you've spent a lot

00:44:51.960 of money to be there and if you feel you can't afford both then i would far rather see you decline

00:44:58.660 the wedding invitation but still send a gift particularly this is someone who's important to

00:45:04.100 you let's talk about another topic i think a lot of men have questions about should you still hold the

00:45:10.160 door open for a woman sure so this is going to vary depending on the situation and what i like to 1.00

00:45:17.600 recommend to a man who strives to be a gentleman which i think is a is a noble goal and something

00:45:24.000 that's still important in today's culture is that you've got to remember there's distinction between

00:45:29.460 being out on a date and opening a door for a woman holding a chair for a woman standing at a table when a

00:45:36.140 woman comes back to the table gestures that many women although not all will find very gallant and

00:45:42.880 chivalrous and very much appreciate so know your audience so if you're on a date with a woman who

00:45:48.840 is very progressive and feels that that sort of gesture is demeaning and insulting then obviously

00:45:55.660 you're not going to do it but i would say in my conversations with you know women who are all ages 0.85

00:46:01.360 and modern to old-fashioned most will at least appreciate that the gesture behind that the motivation

00:46:07.760 behind that is a good one where you've got to be a little bit more wary is this is now a business

00:46:13.200 setting so in a business setting the idea that you'd be holding a door for a woman or holding a chair

00:46:18.360 out for a woman this is not something that would be traditionally done in the american workplace we 1.00

00:46:24.480 don't recognize gender in workplace ideally what we do recognize is seniority so if you're going to let

00:46:32.060 someone go through the door first let that be because that person is the boss is the senior

00:46:37.600 person it's the client not because it's a woman however i think a nice workaround for anyone who

00:46:42.920 real for a man who really strives to be a gentleman in all interactions is you just simply in those cases

00:46:49.000 you don't make a distinguishing decision between okay this is a woman i work with so i'm going to hold

00:46:54.480 the door for her but here comes you know charlie my male colleague and i'm going to let the door slam 1.00

00:46:59.460 in his face because he's not a woman if you're a gentleman you hold the door for everyone it doesn't 1.00

00:47:04.600 matter what gender they are you don't rush to take the best seat in the restaurant when you're going

00:47:09.580 to a business dinner because that's who you are you let other people take the better seat you are

00:47:15.560 constantly on the lookout for opportunities to put other people before yourself that's truly what a

00:47:21.440 gentleman does and in a business setting you don't have to be worrying is this a man or a woman you

00:47:26.300 simply do it for everyone in that way if anyone ever accused you well gosh why you know why are

00:47:31.260 you holding the door for me i find that offensive and belittling you say you know this is simply who

00:47:36.640 i am i i do this for everyone i'm sorry to have offended you um you know but i assure you it's not

00:47:41.900 a gender-based decision it's something that i do as a matter of practice and i think there you're on

00:47:46.900 the best ground of all well thomas this has been a great conversation where can people go to learn

00:47:50.900 more about your work oh brett thank you so much i've enjoyed it and congrats on the podcast i know

00:47:55.400 you're rapidly approaching your thousandth episode so i can't wait to see you achieve that milestone

00:48:00.800 but it's it's been a great conversation i am at on all social media i'm mr manners and that's mr

00:48:06.420 spelled out and the website is mr hyphen manners.com and i pop up on tv and radio and newspaper around the

00:48:15.260 country on a regular basis i do a column for the nbc today show called mealtime with mr manners

00:48:20.240 where i tackle everyday dining etiquette issues so always happy to receive questions or if any of

00:48:27.380 your listeners have a quandary it'd be my pleasure to field it for them and answer it in a way that

00:48:31.900 will help them be as mannerly and manly in the case of your listeners as possible well thomas farley

00:48:38.500 thanks for your time it's been a pleasure thank you brett my guest today was thomas farley also

00:48:43.200 known as mr manners you can find more information about his work at his website mr-manners.com

00:48:48.040 also check out our show notes at aom.is slash etiquette faq where you find links to resources

00:48:53.120 we delve deeper into this topic

00:48:54.520 well that wraps up another edition of the aom podcast make sure to check out our website at

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00:49:35.140 of it as always thank you for the continued support until next time it's brett mckay

00:49:38.760 remind you to listen to a podcast but put what you've heard into action

00:49:42.860 thank you

00:49:47.680 and

00:49:48.100 Thank you.

The Art of Manliness - May 22, 2023

Answers to the FAQ of Modern Etiquette

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