The Art of Manliness - Bo Jackson, The Last Folk Hero

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast

00:00:10.740 in the 80s and 90s few sports stars loomed as large as bo jackson a kansas city royal and an

00:00:16.520 oakland raider he was the rare athlete to play two professional sports his strength and power

00:00:20.920 seemed supernatural he soared into end zones ran the 40 yard dash in 4.13 seconds hit meteoric

00:00:26.880 home runs and broke baseball bats over his head for fun and those are just his documented exploits

00:00:31.980 because bo played in an era before smartphones stories circulated that can never be entirely

00:00:36.700 proven or disproven that he was capable of even more impressive feats the guy was the stuff of

00:00:42.120 legends for this reason jeff perlman has entitled his new biography of bo the last folk hero today

00:00:47.860 on the show jeff and i talk about bo's paul bunyan s stature and the real life behind the legend we

00:00:52.960 discuss both the flaws and strengths of bo jackson and how natural talent can be both a hindrance and

00:00:57.480 a help as we trace his life from an impoverished upbringing as one of 10 kids to how he managed to

00:01:02.160 secure an arrangement where he got to play two professional sports jeff explains how bo never

00:01:05.920 liked to practice because he was so naturally gifted he didn't need to why bo didn't take the

00:01:10.260 deal when the yankees tried to draft him out of high school the flashbulb moments he achieved in

00:01:14.340 college in the pros how a hip injury ended his football days but didn't entirely finish him off for

00:01:18.980 baseball and why after such a neon career bo has largely disappeared from the public eye

00:01:23.760 after the show's over check out our show notes at awim.is slash bo

00:01:27.240 all right jeff perlman welcome to the show thank you good to be here you got a new biography out about

00:01:45.600 bo jackson and if you were a kid in the 80s or 90s bo jackson was the guy i think most of my

00:01:51.200 neighborhood friends had that poster of bo with the shoulder pads baseball bat draped across his

00:01:57.280 shoulders looking like achilles on the fields of troy if you play tech mobile with your friends you

00:02:02.980 got in fights with who is going to be the raiders because if you were the raiders you got to be number

00:02:08.280 34 which is bo jackson you can do these insane 99 yard runs you know back before there was youtube and

00:02:14.740 you watch sports clips highlights you had to get those vhs tapes i remember i had a vhs tape that

00:02:19.200 had the infamous play where bo jackson runs across the outfield wall like spider-man so he's the guy

00:02:25.840 and you make this case in this book that bo jackson was the last folk hero why is that why was jackson the

00:02:32.260 last american folk hero all right so that was um i originally heard that terminology from another really

00:02:37.620 great writer named joe posnanski and he called him the last folk hero and i was like wow it's great

00:02:41.780 that's so true and i told joe i was going to borrow it i mean nowadays everything is videotaped

00:02:47.600 everything is recorded and obviously not just from tv cameras but from the phones we all carry in our

00:02:52.440 pockets so if some 12 year old kid in bethesda jumps over an eight foot fence someone's going to

00:02:59.740 record it and splash it all over tiktok and instagram and it's going to go via on a second

00:03:03.660 there was none of that with bo jackson none and i mean his games were on tv obviously but like

00:03:10.760 he truly was i start this whole book with a quote a paul bunyan reference and he really was paul bunyan

00:03:18.120 or kind of bigfoot or like the lochness monster where he did these things and you it just doesn't

00:03:25.520 even sound real like he he ran a 41340 at auburn which is amazing he was 220 something pounds but

00:03:33.360 then when he was with the raiders he ran a 41740 on grass in pads like it's preposterous his when he

00:03:41.800 was a senior in high school he won the state decathlon championship for the second time in a row

00:03:46.880 didn't want to run the last event which was the mile so he basically got far enough ahead so he

00:03:52.240 wouldn't have to run the mile and then the next day his team mcadory high school is playing in a state

00:03:57.820 playoff game for baseball and bo jackson pitches the only time that year and he strikes out 13 in

00:04:03.940 the win and this is the same season when he wrapped up his he stole 90 out of 91 bases as a high

00:04:10.820 schooler i mean it's just on and on all this stuff where you would go no that doesn't not uh-uh he

00:04:17.280 jumped over a volkswagen that doesn't make i didn't i need to see it it's like well you can't see it

00:04:21.720 because not everyone had a camera so like sometimes you just need to trust the bo jackson stories because

00:04:27.260 they're ridiculous well yeah and there's outside of sports there's these stories about bo jackson

00:04:31.300 doing these crazy things like you start off the book talking about when he played for the white 0.91

00:04:34.940 socks the plane was going down and everyone said like bo jackson is the one that saved it and there's

00:04:41.220 people that said yeah that's how it happened other people i don't know but no one filmed it so you it

00:04:46.580 becomes a legend i actually knew so you don't always know how you're going to open a book but as soon

00:04:51.020 as i heard that i was like this has to be it he they're flying back from california he's with the

00:04:55.940 white socks he's a reduced version of himself because of the hip injury and plane all of a sudden

00:05:00.960 starts making some noises uh craig erbeck's an infielder looks out the window and sees the

00:05:05.640 half the plane on fire people start freaking out frank thomas is wrapping himself in blankets

00:05:12.500 pillows and guys are taking out religious medallions and ozzy guin is praying to jesus and the whole thing

00:05:18.980 it's crazy and all of a sudden the cockpit door opens and bo jackson walks out and he'd been in

00:05:25.120 the cockpit talking to the pilots and he's like all right everyone don't worry they got it under

00:05:29.620 control everyone just get your seatbelts on and we're going to be okay and it's this amazing story

00:05:34.880 well then someone else tells me the story and they say no no no no no bo jackson was sitting in the

00:05:39.920 plane the plane starts going down he walks into the cockpit to help them fly the plane so i have two

00:05:45.920 versions of this amazing story and they both end with them landing in des moines which they did

00:05:51.820 at an abandoned airport way early in the morning they're all starving they're all depressed whatever

00:05:58.580 you know almost almost died in a plane crash and there's a there's a kiosk an unattended unopened

00:06:03.640 kiosk and next to it is a beer keg with the tap locked and bo jackson walks up to it uses his bare

00:06:11.500 hand breaks the lock off the keg and they all drink on bo jackson like that's paul bunyan stuff

00:06:18.800 right there it's paul bunyan stuff i freaking love that stuff and there's so many things there's so

00:06:24.100 many things like that in his life that again nowadays someone on that plane would have videotaped from the

00:06:30.700 plane someone would have pulled out their phone they would have videotaped it and maybe we just see

00:06:35.300 bo jackson praying to jesus sitting in the seat maybe none of it happened like but we're allowed to

00:06:40.600 use our imagination with bo jackson and there's no one left like that right with bo jackson you had

00:06:44.760 to be there to see it and the only way you can know about it now is just like it's it's stories

00:06:48.740 secondhand and some youtube you know you can still see him climb up the wall like him climbing up the

00:06:53.100 wall in baltimore is the kind of thing that lends itself to mythology right and someone would say

00:06:59.460 that's the thing about him that's interesting too you'd be like he climbed up a wall he climbed up

00:07:04.280 the outfield wall then ran across it then ran down and your friend would be like nah there's no way

00:07:08.840 your grandpa would tell you that story and you'd be like grandpa you're seriously you're suffering

00:07:12.500 from your dementia there's no way this happened well now we have this youtube clip and it actually

00:07:16.820 adds to the mythology because it's like if he did that what else is he able to do so a theme i picked

00:07:23.580 up as i read your book is the promise and peril of being blessed with incredible supernatural talent

00:07:32.020 and this is a problem that you don't normally see in sports but any domain right whether it's art

00:07:36.900 writing science whatever i mean i hope we can flesh this theme out looking at the life of bo jackson

00:07:42.100 because like that's like he was born with just crazy raw talent so let's start off there like what

00:07:47.780 was his upbringing like and when did people first start noticing like this guy this guy's got something

00:07:53.220 so he um he's one of 10 kids single mom florence jackson best from alabama born in abject poverty

00:08:01.340 bessemer's right outside of birmingham you know grew up in a 99 african-american community

00:08:07.420 was so poor that he literally was going to school elementary school either in socks without shoes

00:08:14.900 or his sister's hand-me-down shoes he was a bully he was a kid who beat the snot out of other kids who

00:08:21.260 stole lunch money his nickname the origins of his nickname and this one i did check out is when he was a kid

00:08:28.220 there's a local farmer who had um these hogs on his on these these boar hogs on his land 0.99

00:08:35.300 and bo jackson and a bunch of his friends snuck over there and there was this one boar who was

00:08:42.540 enormous and they just gathered around this boar and beat the living snot out of it for three days

00:08:48.820 until it died they would hit it and just beat it and beat it beat it the hog wouldn't die they come 0.95

00:08:54.300 back the next day they come back the third day the hog finally dies and bo is short for boar for

00:08:59.560 boar hog so that's where the bo kind of stems from and the thing that's interesting is i wrote a

00:09:05.060 biography of brett farve and i wrote a biography of walter payton they have similar sort of origin

00:09:08.500 stories which is bo jackson wasn't a kid playing organized football but he was a kid throwing rocks

00:09:15.100 at cars and throwing rocks at other kids he wasn't a little kid doing the high jump or hurdles but he was

00:09:20.580 a kid scaling fences he wasn't a kid doing the long jump he wasn't like idolizing car lewis

00:09:25.420 but he was jumping over ditches to escape the angry farmer because he stole fruit from his trees you

00:09:32.520 know like he was very raw very raw everything he learned really came out of mischief and his mom

00:09:40.640 wouldn't let him play football he played in high school in ninth grade against his mom's wishes

00:09:45.540 he played a lot of summer league baseball he really didn't get on the map until his junior

00:09:52.420 year of high school and he was one of three running backs on his team in mcadori high school he wasn't

00:09:56.880 really the star but he was a physical specimen and he started doing things that blew people away

00:10:01.620 you know running over two guys at once making these tackles that were just otherworldly and at the time

00:10:08.440 the biggest recruit in college sports in america was marcus dupree out of philadelphia mississippi

00:10:13.460 he was much he was bigger than bow he was stronger than bow he's about the same speed and everyone's

00:10:18.060 talking about marcus dupree but in the state of alabama there were whispers about this kid

00:10:22.420 in mcadori who just was some some kind of athlete and slowly but surely school started to look at him

00:10:30.120 well you another part you mentioned he's a bully and he beat the snot out of kids part of that 0.61

00:10:34.260 reason he beat the snot out of kids is he had a stutter and people would make fun of him and he 0.68

00:10:39.720 would make sure that they never did that again yeah he had a severe stutter and it is really

00:10:44.900 interesting he was actually held back he said and it's undeniably true because it was a product 0.99

00:10:50.300 of the generation like people back then equated stutter with stupid like oh he's dumb can't get 0.98

00:10:55.960 the words out there was one teacher and one of them wherever this teacher she's still alive it's 0.99

00:10:59.960 one of the meanest things i've ever heard he got in trouble in class one day and the teacher made

00:11:04.420 him stand up in front of the whole class and recite a poem because he knew his stutter was really bad

00:11:08.200 like just mean mean stuff and i do think one of the things i enjoy about this this job and doing 1.00

00:11:15.080 books is you could say on the base level okay bo jackson god he was such an asshole what a jerk of 0.99

00:11:21.160 a kid but then you look into it he's one of 10 kids in a tiny house they literally don't have running 1.00

00:11:27.820 water in their house he has to go to the outhouse to use the bathroom at night his roof is tar paper on

00:11:32.280 his house he is sleeping on a floor he's oftentimes sleeping against a heater and would wake up with

00:11:38.160 heater burns on his body as with the other kids in that house his mom did the best she could she 1.00

00:11:44.920 worked as a maid at a local motel but she would beat the crap out of those kids you know physically 1.00

00:11:50.820 beat the crap out of those kids so oh and even worse his father a guy named ad adams he wasn't just 0.69

00:11:58.220 like an absentee father and oh i don't know who my dad is he lived across town with his own family 0.98

00:12:03.540 and had almost nothing to do with bo jackson a little interest in this kid so i always think

00:12:08.000 it's it's kind of unique to look at someone and on the base level you could say god he was such an 0.99

00:12:12.200 asshole but then you're like how could he have not been he was one of 10 kids living in abject 1.00

00:12:16.700 poverty wearing his sister's shoes to school sleeping against a heater with a father who had 0.99

00:12:20.980 nothing who wanted nothing to do with him and he was hungry all the time how are you not going to 1.00

00:12:25.220 be an asshole and something you point out that bo he was able to figure out that sports he saw at a 0.99

00:12:32.160 young age he had two paths he could go down right he could continue chunking rocks at cars and getting 1.00

00:12:36.320 in fights and going that could get even worse but then he saw like sports could save me from that like

00:12:41.920 and he made the choice to choose sports he was terrified of reform school reform school was this

00:12:48.080 idea in his head like the boogeyman and he had an older sibling who went to reform school 0.95

00:12:52.160 and apparently his older sibling told him all these stories about kids getting raped 0.59

00:12:56.000 in reform school and he was petrified of reform school so he did not want to go there and he

00:13:02.620 starts playing sports and the thing is all of a sudden these coaches are really supportive he had a

00:13:07.540 baseball coach who would drive you home after school people treated you special people treated you

00:13:12.560 different you got a new uniform you could see yourself in the local newspaper he had um when he was a

00:13:20.160 junior a local reporter from the birmingham news came to his house to write a story on him

00:13:25.000 and she told me the story about it how he was just showing off left and right do you want to see me do

00:13:29.940 this so i can do this watch me do this on the backyard and like you're one of 10 kids you never get this

00:13:35.300 attention you're one of 10 kids you're not special you were held back you're old for your grade and

00:13:39.720 you have a stutter so all of a sudden here's this thing you do and you do really well and people 0.94

00:13:44.020 white and black are paying attention to you and praising you for it it's a it's a definitely a drug you 1.00

00:13:48.820 know so the coaches recognize this kid's got raw talent but something that that plagued jackson

00:13:54.820 throughout his career that he got criticized about was that he was loath to practice he did not like

00:13:58.740 to practice did this start when he was in high school yes he was very frustrating he did not like

00:14:04.960 to practice he hated lifting weights he hated running i mean again he wanted to win the decathlon

00:14:10.760 decisively just so he wouldn't have to run the 1500 you know like he went out of his way to

00:14:15.540 dominate the other events so he wouldn't have to do running he loved track he didn't like track

00:14:20.100 workouts he loved football he hated football workouts baseball he was okay with all around

00:14:25.320 he was not a hard worker in a lot of ways he was naturally gifted it doesn't it's not indictment he

00:14:30.660 was so gifted and so talented he just didn't have to work in the way others did but a drug coach is

00:14:34.400 crazy are there other athletes that you've covered or written about the same thing they were super

00:14:38.400 talented and because they were talented they just thought they could get by without practicing

00:14:42.240 i would say shack to a certain degree was not to the same degree but certainly in that realm

00:14:47.920 i mean the thing that's really more interesting is every now and then you get a walter payton or kobe

00:14:53.980 bryant where the hardest worker also happens to be the most athletic and that's when you get

00:14:58.600 otherworldly otherworldly greatness and bo jackson had otherworldly greatness but you think

00:15:03.360 i mean to jump ahead a little bit like he wore it as a point of pride that i don't lift weights right

00:15:09.680 i don't lift weights and i hate working out in the offseason offseason is mine and he knew he had

00:15:15.440 this natural gift but then you think about it like he got hurt and part of it was because he kind of

00:15:22.180 abused his body you know he was doing these two sports his body didn't hold up maybe doing lifting

00:15:28.440 weights would have helped maybe doing extra running would have helped i'm not i'm not saying it matters

00:15:32.040 he doesn't care but i don't think he's in a i don't think he's a poster child for do less work

00:15:38.080 it'll make you a better athlete how did the coaches manage an athlete who didn't want to

00:15:43.680 practice because at the same time like they saw like this guy's really talented like we need him

00:15:47.740 so we can't just be like well you know you're off the team because that would be kind of shooting

00:15:52.680 themselves in the foot so what did they do it was hard first of all high score is the worst because

00:15:57.600 he's your meal ticket and he's your best athlete and he's just not that hard of a worker and they

00:16:01.640 let a lot of things slide with him there were times when he was kicked off the team you can't come

00:16:05.420 back for two days blah blah blah both times he would quit and come back but mostly you let it

00:16:10.400 slide in high school which happens i mean it happened in my high school probably happened in

00:16:13.500 your high school the best athletes walk college was a little interesting he shows up at auburn

00:16:18.100 and his freshman year first of all he shows up he's the number two running back recruit in the state

00:16:24.120 of alabama number one was a guy named alan evans out of enterprise and he was more if you picture

00:16:28.160 bo jackson is like jim brown alan evans was more like gail sarah's uh shifty and you know all sorts

00:16:33.300 of jukes and everyone was super excited for alan evans while they're a couple days in it's just so

00:16:38.440 obvious that bo jackson is at a different level all together that alan evans is quickly forgotten

00:16:43.260 and he winds up transferring to ut chattanooga there was a coach early on bo's position coach

00:16:49.220 his running back coach who one day grabbed bo jackson by the face mask to give him a lecture

00:16:53.960 and bo jackson snapped and said never grab my face mask again and the coach was kind of like

00:17:02.380 haha and bo jackson was like i'm telling you do not grab my face mask again and he never did and pat

00:17:09.100 die was the head football coach at auburn and he understood like this was my again this is my meal

00:17:14.100 ticket this guy probably isn't going to practice as hard as other guys also you know bo jackson played

00:17:18.880 college baseball for three years two and a half years at auburn and one of the great motivators for

00:17:23.620 him playing baseball was he wouldn't have to have off-season football practices he hated football

00:17:27.280 practice hated it so he's able to play baseball which has much easier sort of laid-back practices

00:17:32.500 and really embrace that well speaking of before he went to auburn so he was at high school when he

00:17:38.000 graduated he was a recruit like people were looking at him for college football but he was getting

00:17:43.660 looked at or getting offers from the pros like he actually got drafted by the yankees when he was like

00:17:48.280 a senior correct it's a crazy story he's drafted by the yankees and his mom really wants him to be

00:17:55.060 the first member of the family to go to a four-year college he had a sibling who went to community

00:17:59.020 college that's it and the yankees draft him in the second round which is a high pick and he would

00:18:03.500 have been a first round pick if they were sure of it but they weren't because scouts are all over him

00:18:07.320 in high school there was a scout from the kansas city royals named kenny gonzalez who was the first on

00:18:10.760 the train he's basically sending reports to the royals like this is the best athlete i've ever seen

00:18:14.940 this guy's a freak of nature but kenny gonzalez knew bow was going to go to auburn but the yankees

00:18:19.200 use a second round pick and after you draft someone you reach out to him and they couldn't find him

00:18:25.660 like they would call his house nobody would answer they would knock on his door nobody would answer

00:18:31.320 they were doing everything to dodge the yankees the yankees were willing to pay him a boatload of

00:18:34.820 money and it was two things number one his mom just didn't want him to go to play professional

00:18:40.040 baseball and also auburn had guys watching him and auburn had guys playing sort of playing

00:18:45.480 offensive line for him blocking anyone who would dare try to come so they would have someone sit

00:18:50.480 with his mom at games and they would have guys talk to bow about you don't want to play in new

00:18:55.100 york you don't want to play for the yankees george steinbrenner's evil blah blah blah blah blah so the

00:18:59.440 yankees tried and tried and tried but they were never going to get him away from auburn well and the

00:19:03.100 other thing too it just seems like he was kind of indifferent to the business of sports like the money

00:19:07.480 it didn't seem to phase him all that much well it's funny like i kind of love this the yankees

00:19:14.380 offered to send him to new york with his coach his high school coach terry brazil to watch a yankee

00:19:22.940 red sox game at yankee stadium and the coach is like bo we should totally do this and bo jackson

00:19:28.620 didn't even know the yankees at red sox were rivals like had no idea the only guy in the yankees

00:19:33.320 he probably heard of was reggie jackson because of the same last name like he didn't care he wasn't

00:19:38.020 impressed he didn't he wasn't sitting home watching the nfl watching major league baseball i probably

00:19:42.620 couldn't name 10 nfl players at that point he just didn't care it wasn't his universe so you're right

00:19:48.020 he didn't the idea of going to college playing in state being close to his mom those things were

00:19:52.440 much more appealing to him than a couple hundred thousand dollars from the yankees but even like as

00:19:56.740 you see this as he is professional career advanced money i mean like money was important but it didn't seem

00:20:01.700 to be that important like there'd be times where like you know the management would like lay down

00:20:04.980 some sort of gauntlet and he'd be like okay i just don't care you just walk away do you think that

00:20:09.200 indifference came from just his talent like he just he was so talented he just didn't have to care

00:20:13.360 about this stuff yeah also you know there's a there's a line from the movie the aviator when

00:20:18.460 howard use played by leonardo dicaprio is in is that a house and he's having dinner with this wealthy

00:20:22.460 family and it's catherine hepburn's family and they said the mom of catherine hepburn says

00:20:28.260 we don't care about money here and dicaprio goes it's because you have it and like it definitely

00:20:35.980 was easy for bo jackson to be indifferent as his career went on because he was making millions and

00:20:39.780 millions of dollars from nike and also he had dual full season really full season professional

00:20:45.740 football and baseball contracts so he wasn't hurting for money i think it's more interesting

00:20:50.140 that a guy who is the national spokesperson for nike really and as big as michael jordan

00:20:55.140 didn't really care about attention like he kind of wanted he liked being known as great

00:21:00.260 but he certainly didn't need to be signing autographs and appearing at store openings like

00:21:05.120 he had very little use for that he didn't like doing that stuff at all no he did not and part of

00:21:10.440 it might be the stutter part of it might be the stutter and just this shyness and again like we

00:21:14.960 don't talk about this enough in sports but like oftentimes you're taking dirt poor kids largely

00:21:20.700 african-american thrusting them into this world and saying all right have a good time swimming 0.99

00:21:25.240 and it's not a natural transition you know it's just not a natural transition we're gonna take a

00:21:31.680 quick break for your words from our sponsors

00:21:33.120 and now back to the show so at auburn he got recruited to play football but he made it a

00:21:42.880 contingency that he got to play baseball too because he wanted to and run track and run track

00:21:47.660 right so there's three sports which is unheard of today i don't i don't i can't think of any

00:21:52.720 college athletes are playing three different sports unless they're at some small you know division three

00:21:57.440 college or something during this time at college like what was his career like as a football player

00:22:02.020 and baseball player like where did he excel at and were there moments where they're like the legend

00:22:06.020 of bo jackson started being cemented yeah well i mean his freshman year at auburn he became you know

00:22:13.640 they ran a uh a wishbone so it was uh it was a three back offense and they had a guy named lionel

00:22:20.060 they had a lot of nfl backs there lionel james tommy ag different guys and he was very good as a

00:22:25.160 freshman like excellent as a freshman like freshman all-american freshman but there's you know they

00:22:29.920 played alabama and i think alabama had won the last nine iron bowls the iron bowl was the alabama

00:22:33.940 auburn game and they won this game bow going over the top from the one yard line and bow over the top is

00:22:40.520 legend in alabama it's still legend in alabama it's such legend that people forget like that was in

00:22:46.800 late in the fourth quarter but auburn got the ball back and bow actually fumbled and got the ball back

00:22:51.160 to alabama and they they held on to win but it was close but that moment bow over the top really

00:22:57.620 boosted him from just a guy a really good auburn player to sort of an icon and in baseball so he

00:23:04.780 played his freshman year and the coach was a guy named paul nicks and he was an old school

00:23:10.200 hardcore red ass not a fun guy to play for would berate his players during games on a bullhorn from 0.94

00:23:16.160 the dugout and bow decided not to play sophomore year and he came back when hal barrett was named

00:23:21.720 the new coach and bo jackson has a moment his junior year in baseball i mean he would hit these moon

00:23:26.800 shots but there's a the first night game at the university of georgia they installed these lights

00:23:32.700 light poles with lights he never had lights there and it's a first night game auburn alabama and it's

00:23:38.120 a big deal they print up commemorative tickets it's a sold-out stadium vince duly the legendary georgia

00:23:44.740 football coach is there and they do it on purpose auburn alabama and bo jackson's playing in the

00:23:50.260 outfield and the fans are heckling him from behind the fence and his first at bat he grounds out the

00:23:55.840 fans are heckling him and the second at bat he hits a home run that hits the lights like it hits

00:24:03.640 the lights and the place goes silent like silent and this was 39 days before the natural came out

00:24:11.420 where the you know the the robert redford actually hits the lights it hits the lights

00:24:15.880 bo jackson runs back out to the outfield at the end of the inning and they stand all the fans who

00:24:21.460 were really just destroying him stand and start bowing and he ends up hitting two more home runs

00:24:27.840 in that game auburn destroys georgia and his last at bat he only doubles and the fans boo him for just

00:24:35.840 doubling i mean there's like all this great and that game is not on video it's not on tape i interviewed

00:24:40.220 a million different people from it and that was kind of him and that was his his his baseball legend

00:24:45.480 really stems in a lot of ways from that game so he had a great freshman year how did his career pan out

00:24:50.240 the rest of his college career i mean it was more hot and cold than people remember football wise like

00:24:55.300 he got hurt a couple times he definitely got the reputation a little bit of being soft sitting out

00:25:00.960 games he had an injury against tennessee and after the game tennessee was like we just we knew he was

00:25:05.040 soft and we just wanted to get him out of there and they did you know he won the heisman trophy as a

00:25:09.240 senior and he was the presumed front runner from the beginning and it just kept getting closer and

00:25:14.660 closer and closer because people thought he was lazy he got this reputation of being lazy

00:25:19.340 and one of the ugliest i didn't realize it as ugly at the time but a huge moment in that season was

00:25:25.760 sports illustrated did a cover and it was three heisman trophy potential heisman trophy winners

00:25:31.580 it was bow it was chuck long from auburn and then it was joe dudek from division three plymouth state

00:25:38.480 and sports illustrated made the case that joe dudek should win the heisman trophy and you know he had all

00:25:44.280 these stats but he was playing division three and the thing i didn't think about until much later as an

00:25:48.640 adult was the racial component of it here's joe dudek scrappy white guy you know new hampshire

00:25:56.180 works at his dad's store wears the eye paint under his eyes his uniform is always muddy and here's

00:26:03.880 bo jackson african-american everything comes easy to him he doesn't work hard he's just this guy he's

00:26:11.340 lazy and you realize looking back that a lot of these were really racist tropes that bo jackson

00:26:16.880 he wasn't lazy he was just freaking gifted like he wasn't taking plays off he was hurt they he got

00:26:23.220 killed for missing time in another game and it turns out he had some internal bleeding you know

00:26:28.080 like and i just look back at the stereotypes and the cliches of bo jackson and they really make me

00:26:32.840 cringe because he was he was a magnificent college football player and uh how do you end up doing in

00:26:37.360 baseball he was awesome his junior year is one of the best seasons in auburn history and sec history

00:26:42.500 and you know his senior year was going okay not great but okay and then what happened is the

00:26:49.340 tampa bay buccaneers secured the number one pick in the upcoming nfl draft and somehow either via his

00:26:55.920 agent who bo jackson blamed and he shouldn't have had an agent at that time or that's you culverhouse

00:27:00.840 the owner of the buccaneers he thought it was okay to take a flight to tampa to have a physical

00:27:05.300 with the bucks and he flew to tampa this is early in the baseball season and auburn baseball was

00:27:12.100 playing someone that night and the head coach how barrett asked the player where's bo and someone's

00:27:16.560 like yeah he'll be coming he flew to tampa for to meet with the buccaneers and how barrett said he did

00:27:21.700 he did what it's like yeah he flew to tampa and how barrett really knew at that moment that his

00:27:26.680 baseball eligibility was done and it was he couldn't under sec rules you couldn't play or you

00:27:32.400 couldn't negotiate you couldn't do any of that at the time period professional so that ended his

00:27:37.860 baseball career he was furious furious if you want to know the number one reason he didn't sign with

00:27:41.440 the tampa bay buccaneers being drafted number one it's that moment well that's another kind of thing

00:27:46.200 that you talk about too in the book about what college sports was like in the 80s i think sometimes

00:27:50.180 we forget like how how crazy it was right we think college sports is crazy now but there's just so

00:27:55.980 much like crazy scandal stuff going on how did bo jackson handle the the off-field pressures and

00:28:03.020 temptations of college sports in the 80s i mean you have to remember well so he if he had gotten

00:28:08.960 caught it would have been a mistake he basically hired this guy named freeland abbott to be his

00:28:12.020 business manager which is a euphemism for agent so bo was getting money from this guy and getting goods

00:28:17.540 from this guy and you know he wasn't caught and again like i i can never begrudge a kid who grew up in

00:28:25.480 poverty one of ten taking stuff in college it's ridiculous that you couldn't you know it's

00:28:30.220 preposterous so you know that was the thing they had auburn had weird like pat die wrote in his book

00:28:36.020 he's since deceased you know all about the virtues of running a clean program and actually was snorting

00:28:41.160 out loud while reading the book because like they had all these boosters handing players money as they

00:28:46.080 ran off the field they had a whole scheme of how players could sell their tickets to boosters

00:28:51.860 for thousands and thousands of dollars way above face value so you know it was the sec in particular

00:28:58.600 was a wild west back then all these guys are getting or many of these guys are getting paid

00:29:02.140 uh we're having their families taken care of i talked to a guy named chuck clanton who was a safety on

00:29:07.000 that team defensive back on the auburn and he he really wanted to go to florida state and his parents

00:29:13.560 made him go to auburn because auburn was giving him so much money he had no choice

00:29:16.860 so it was a dirty world so jackson finishes collegiate career it was amazing wins the

00:29:23.380 heisman had a great baseball career despite you know having being ineligible at the end of it

00:29:27.580 how did he end up playing both professional baseball and football i imagine that was i mean

00:29:32.840 if i was management of like a football team i was or his management of a baseball team i wouldn't want

00:29:37.440 an athlete i'm paying millions of dollars to potentially to be playing another sport because

00:29:43.060 you might get injured or something else so how did i mean how did he navigate that and how did that

00:29:47.500 happen yeah it's actually kind of a fascinating story everyone assumes he's going to football like

00:29:52.480 everyone assumes he's going to the nfl he's going to be the number one big he's like i'll never sign

00:29:56.060 with the buccaneers and the reaction is yeah okay buddy wait till you get the money of course you're

00:29:59.580 going to sign well he's drafted by the bucks and the buccaneers are convinced he's going to sign

00:30:04.500 with them and he's saying i'm going to wait for the baseball draft and everyone's like okay i'm sure

00:30:08.960 you're going to wait for the baseball draft but he does and the royals have them the royals are all

00:30:15.060 about bo jackson but they can't use a high pick on him because what if he doesn't sign with them what

00:30:19.660 if he does go to the nfl it'd be a hard you can't use a first round pick can't blow it so they wait

00:30:23.960 and wait and wait and finally they get to a later round and art stewart who was the sort of gm at the

00:30:30.340 time or the head of scouting said we're not gonna it's not gonna ruin our franchise if we use this pick

00:30:34.000 and they draft bo and he's all in like he does not want to go to the tampa bay buccaneers he feels

00:30:39.860 like they deliberately ruined his baseball eligibility in college and he negotiates with

00:30:45.040 the royals and he long negotiations and they signed to it they agree to a deal and he has these different

00:30:51.660 out clauses for football in the contract but he's very adamant i'm playing baseball i'm playing baseball

00:30:56.040 he spends his 1986 with the memphis chicks double a most of the season he signs and goes to memphis

00:31:02.760 plays terribly but again at the end is really good gets a in his contract he was guaranteed a

00:31:08.840 call up in september so he's caught up september 1986 not far out of college his first major that

00:31:15.160 got bad is amazing it's one of the best youtube clips ever it's him facing steve carton and beating

00:31:20.000 out a ground ball to second base for a single it's utterly preposterous and he plays his year in

00:31:26.000 baseball and he's always saying don't ask me football questions don't ask me football questions

00:31:30.380 but on the side he's kind of dropping hints to people like you know i'm not saying i won't play

00:31:34.660 football and he had a guy he played football with at auburn named chris woods a wide receiver who

00:31:39.300 actually signed with the raiders and one day bo jackson said to chris woods he said tell al davis

00:31:44.880 if he drafts me i'd be interested so the draft comes around in 87 the bucks loses rights raiders draft

00:31:51.920 him late and they kind of reach out to him and he's interested and the raiders are giddy they're like

00:31:59.220 you can play half a season you can take a month off after baseball is done take your time we'll

00:32:03.380 take you for six games seven games whatever and the royals are livid just livid the team his teammates

00:32:09.780 are furious uh why is this guy getting special treatment this is blah blah blah blah blah but they

00:32:16.040 don't really have a say in it like he has contractual control that he can do this so he

00:32:20.140 goes off and plays for the raiders and how did that mean so i mean when he played for the raiders

00:32:24.260 like how did he manage the friction with the royals i mean was he ever kind of chummy with

00:32:28.640 those guys or was it just you know just business basically he was chummy with a few of them but

00:32:33.780 generally like willie wilson was merciless to the media about how mad he was at bo frank white was

00:32:39.680 clearly mad at bo george brett was one of his closest friends on the team and he wasn't thrilled

00:32:44.020 by it but he was he was supportive he didn't care like he really didn't care and this is to his

00:32:49.940 credit not to it it's not an insult like he was all about his wife he was all about his soon-to-be

00:32:54.320 kids his mom his hometown to a certain degree i don't care if kevin seitzer hates me like why do

00:33:01.060 i care if jim sunberg is mad at me what what how does that impact my life in any negative or positive

00:33:05.420 way whatsoever it is indifferent to me i think it's really impressive i wish i was able to think the

00:33:10.460 way bo jackson thinks about things because i think it's impressive he just didn't care no i actually

00:33:14.480 i that's part i admired about him after i was reading about it there was a moment where

00:33:18.800 he was getting criticized by sports writers on the baseball side that he needed to show more

00:33:24.540 leadership yeah and they said his lack of leadership was shown because he just he didn't get upset

00:33:29.120 after they lost a game like he needed to be more sad and bo jackson was just like why am i going to

00:33:34.440 take that home with me like it's just it was done it's a game you move on i'm not gonna i'm not gonna

00:33:40.400 mope around because i don't want i don't want that around my family yeah you know sports they ask

00:33:46.180 athletes are asked to play roles they're almost asked to be actors i have covered sports for a

00:33:50.360 long time baseball team loses you walk in the clubhouse for post-game interviews it's dead quiet

00:33:54.920 no one can look happy and he's just like he just wasn't that guy i mean he wasn't a joyful he was a

00:34:02.040 pain and he asked for the media he was not good with the media so it's not like i'm saying he was

00:34:05.160 wonderful but like he wasn't going to do your tap dance for you he wasn't just gonna you know put on

00:34:10.620 a hat and a little cane and do a jig for you like he wasn't that guy at all at all in fact he would

00:34:17.020 do the opposite you guys think i'm gonna play football i'm gonna play baseball you guys think i

00:34:21.340 should go to extended spring training no i'm going home to be with my newborn kid i'm not doing it i 0.97

00:34:25.540 don't care you're gonna yell at me i don't care i can beat the shit out of you i'm not going to but 0.99

00:34:29.420 i don't care he just had that approach to it all and again i find it much much more admirable 0.94

00:34:34.380 than i do anything negative about it yeah there's also moments you know after the football season

00:34:39.620 was over or the baseball season or when you know before baseball season started like the royals

00:34:44.340 didn't even have his phone number and so when they were like looking for him they couldn't find

00:34:47.860 him and usually he was like off hunting or fishing or just off with his family doing something it's

00:34:53.340 amazing it's amazing the raiders didn't have his number either so like they asked art shell the head

00:34:57.440 coach when is bow reporting and his answer is i think monday but it might be tuesday or wednesday i'm not

00:35:02.100 sure he kind of intimidated people like people were afraid to confront him he was quiet he was he could

00:35:08.900 definitely be moody he was kind of brooding and like he just wasn't a guy to mess with he made it

00:35:14.660 like example he made it very clear in both sports he did not like signing things for teammates and he

00:35:20.920 really did not like signing things for the other sports so if you were a teammate with the royals

00:35:25.440 and you brought him raider gear he did not want to do that and vice versa if you're on the raiders

00:35:29.960 and guys weren't challenging that like no one was coming up to him being like come on bo don't be an

00:35:35.840 so like they were not challenging that he was a he was a presence you did not want to cross 0.65

00:35:40.700 um so i mean during through his career both in football and baseball were there moments

00:35:46.040 like what are the like the key moments you think that just kind of bo jackson became bo jackson the

00:35:50.280 bo jackson with the shoulder pads and baseball batter across the shoulders tech mobile bo jackson

00:35:55.420 we mentioned you know running across the the outfield wall anything else that stands out to you

00:36:00.580 oh yeah bo jackson is made of neon moments it's all neon moments all right in order it's him going

00:36:06.540 over the top against alabama is his first neon moment him winning the heisman trophy is his second

00:36:10.940 neon moment he's a rookie in his first major he got that he beats out a ground ball to second against

00:36:15.560 a hall of fame pitcher steve carlton who later he later admitted he had never heard of he didn't know

00:36:20.200 who he was which is insane in football his big coming out moment is monday night football against the

00:36:25.500 seahawks as a rookie in 87 where he steamrolls brian bosworth but also runs 91 yards for a touchdown

00:36:30.380 and catches a touchdown pass that was a huge moment for him in baseball it's the leading off the 1989

00:36:37.240 all-star game at anaheim with a home run on a picture-perfect day with vin scully and ronald

00:36:44.180 reagan in the booth with the debut of the bow nose the bow diddley ad as a commercial in that during

00:36:50.600 that game like the whole bonus campaign was premiering on the day he led off the all-star

00:36:56.340 game with a home run so the timing was amazing then there's bow running up the wall up and down

00:37:00.800 the wall in baltimore which is amazing funny thing about that the guy who hit the ball joe or slack

00:37:05.040 didn't know until about 10 years ago that he'd been the guy who hit the ball like he hit the ball

00:37:09.660 put his head down was running hard looks up and bo jackson has the ball he didn't know he ran up the

00:37:14.480 wall and then the other big one in baseball obviously is him throwing out harrod reynolds

00:37:18.200 at home plate yeah which is otherworldly and amazing and those are really the iconic iconic

00:37:24.140 him breaking a bat over his head and breaking about over his knee also but those are the iconic

00:37:27.980 moments and the last real iconic moment for bo jackson as a baseball player as a football player

00:37:33.380 is the 1991 playoff game against cincinnati where kevin walker comes from behind and grabs his leg and

00:37:38.500 pulls his hip out of the socket that moment is iconic in its own way well that's the injury that

00:37:43.320 that ended his career correct yep that was it it wasn't it wasn't just like it pulled out of

00:37:49.100 socket like it actually like was it damaged the bone like the bone was degrading yeah so you know

00:37:56.480 he stayed on the sideline for much of the rest of that game the raiders handled it terribly like that

00:38:00.440 guy needed to be in a freaking hospital asap and he wasn't and he went for x-rays the next day and

00:38:05.700 the doctor says shows him and he goes bo do you see all this dark here he's like yeah he goes that is 0.81

00:38:09.940 all blood and bo jackson said that's the um it's the only time he remembers he hated needles but

00:38:16.500 the only time he really remembered passing out like almost passing out was a sick sight of all this

00:38:21.560 pooled blood in his body and it became the hip became diseased and yeah he needed a new hip he

00:38:27.860 didn't know at the time but he needed a new hip in the next it's funny the next week so the raiders

00:38:32.460 the following week are going to buffalo to play the bills in the playoffs at buffalo and bo jackson is

00:38:37.960 getting destroyed in the media he's soft he's skipping his heart isn't into it he's not a real

00:38:43.180 football player there's a former raider tight end named todd christensen who just lay it lashed out

00:38:48.140 at him and none of these guys realized that like he was done he could not do it again and that there

00:38:54.660 was all this internal blood pooling and he was there in buffalo they lost 51 to 3 and that was the last

00:39:00.120 time bo jackson was at a uh was at a raiders game as a as a kind of player and what happened to his

00:39:05.800 baseball career well basically what happened is so it's all like a drama it's it's really

00:39:11.220 a kind of sports soap opera from here he has his injury and the royals front office is basically

00:39:19.100 saying man we can told you so like we told you this would happen we knew this would happen like

00:39:25.980 we told you not to play football and you played football this is on you and bo jackson did not

00:39:31.060 respond to that well and he kept the injury kind of quiet the extent of the injury and the

00:39:36.940 seriousness of the injury and he's telling everyone i'm going to report to spring training i'll be there

00:39:40.800 on time and actually the royals he he was up for contract i think it was arbitration at that point

00:39:45.060 and he wound up getting a huge deal one year deal and he reports to spring training with the royals

00:39:50.700 this is spring 91 and he's on crutches and everyone's like whoa and he keeps telling people

00:39:58.160 i'm going to be ready i should be ready i'm very confident i'll return but he really wasn't

00:40:02.260 confident and he was terrified and he was working out in the pool and he was on a bike

00:40:06.320 he couldn't run and he could barely walk and he was on crutches and during spring training while he

00:40:12.680 was in alabama meeting with dr james andrews about steps for his hip the royals released him

00:40:19.120 he wasn't even around they released him it was really classless and they just didn't feel like

00:40:24.660 they had a choice they just didn't feel like they had a choice and he was so mad at the royals

00:40:29.320 and he really had no right to be because he did decide to play football he did get hurt playing

00:40:33.940 football he was useless as a baseball player and people were saying at the time guys it's such a

00:40:39.140 cutthroat business it's not even that cutthroat of a decision why am i going to sign a baseball

00:40:43.580 player when he can't play it doesn't make sense okay so he's cut from the royals but then the

00:40:48.620 white socks decide to take a shot on him and they just sign him to like you know it's a minimal

00:40:53.060 contract but at this point the guy's still on crutches he hasn't had hip replacement surgery

00:40:57.860 yet but the white socks still like you know hey we'll give you a chance we'll we'll work with you

00:41:02.760 they had a trainer uh ron snyder who was um i think ron snyder who was really dogged and really

00:41:08.580 determined and bo jackson he's working out working out working out we're gonna the whole idea was we're

00:41:14.140 gonna strengthen the muscles around the hip so we're gonna do everything we can to strengthen

00:41:18.580 everything around this and they worked and worked and worked and worked and worked and worked and

00:41:24.200 bo jackson kept promising i'm gonna come back i'm gonna come back everyone's like you're not coming

00:41:27.700 back the chicago media was really just dismissive of this whole carnival and he came back he actually

00:41:34.160 came back without a hip replacement and he was you know he was a shell of his former self he

00:41:39.740 couldn't generate the power but 1991 he ended up playing 23 games with the white socks hit three

00:41:46.120 home runs had 14 rbis his first home run came against the yankees neil heaton and it was one

00:41:51.520 of the most emotional moments of his life again he's not a crier and he's not any motor but that moment

00:41:56.260 of hitting that home run was huge for him because he did something nobody thought he could do

00:42:00.860 unfortunately he comes back for spring training in 92 and because of the severity of the injury

00:42:06.440 he's sort of toast and he's he's a shell of his former self he's wobbling all over the hobbling

00:42:11.360 all over the place his one leg is shrunk a little bit so he actually has a leg that's shorter than

00:42:16.360 the other leg and that's when he winds up it's really sad he winds up getting hip replacement

00:42:21.080 everyone thinks he's done and uh he comes back he sits out off 1992 comes back in 1993 and is their dh

00:42:28.000 for a playoff winning team well it was interesting you talk about when he was initially rehabbing his

00:42:33.520 hip before the hip replacement that was like the first time bo jackson actually took training

00:42:38.360 seriously it seemed like he he finally realized like he didn't have that he couldn't rely on his

00:42:44.240 natural talent anymore he had to he had to do something to to get back to where he wanted to be

00:42:48.560 yeah i think it was really good for him like i think you know what i mean i'm not saying that

00:42:53.120 injury is good for him but i think the awareness oh this is what it's like to be craig urback or warren

00:42:59.480 newsom or some journeyman you know this is what it's like to be fighting for a job so you have to

00:43:04.960 really lift weights and you have to swim and you have to exercise you have to sweat and you're going

00:43:08.420 to stay after his family was in alabama he moved in with the chicago trainer herm snyder i said rob

00:43:13.220 snyder it's a comedian herm snyder he literally moved in with him and would go to the ballpark every

00:43:17.660 day and work out the white socks built this enormous pool for bo jackson a rehabilitative pool that sort

00:43:24.460 of created waves and such and he was there every day and he went from a guy who people dismissed as 0.50

00:43:30.520 sort of indifferent to a guy who was busting his ass and his comeback in 93 is one of the great 0.73

00:43:38.600 i mean people don't talk about it because he was not what he's been i mean in 1993 he had 232 0.78

00:43:45.720 16 home runs 45 rbis as a part-time dh it's not a great season but the comeback is one of his

00:43:51.360 crowning achievements of his life because it he was playing with basically your grandma's

00:43:55.680 artificial hip it wasn't a modern artificial hip it was a plastic artificial hip the screws were

00:44:00.680 made of metal they would chip away at the plastic it was dangerous it was it was you know archaic 0.97

00:44:06.260 and he came back and was a functioning major league player when did jackson decide to retire from sports

00:44:12.740 completely so he he signed 1994 with the california angels really as a spare part their gm was bill

00:44:20.740 bavese and he said to me he said i'm going to be honest we hired him and we signed him as a circus

00:44:25.340 act like we weren't going to be good he wanted to be out in california blah blah blah blah and 94 he's

00:44:32.280 not very good it's kind of same level he was in 93 i mean he hit higher 279 average 13 home runs

00:44:37.880 and that was a strike year and you know by the end of it all he didn't really like playing with the

00:44:43.200 angels they were not a fun team to play for they weren't very passionate fans i live near here fans

00:44:48.000 here are kind of crappy just indifferent and when the strike came he's basically like you guys

00:44:52.780 wouldn't probably never see me again and he left and he kept his word and he never saw him again he

00:44:57.560 he barely talks to former teammates he never talks to former managers he became kind of reclusive

00:45:03.600 without being he's not a hermit but he sort of became reclusive what does he what does he do like

00:45:08.120 what has he done since then since he's retired from sports i mean all right so he when i say i actually

00:45:13.120 i take that back a little he's a spring training instructor sometimes for the white socks and royals

00:45:16.920 and there's actually an endearing clip of him speaking to i think it was adam larosa's son

00:45:22.040 during a white socks spring training explaining to him who he was and he's like have you ever heard

00:45:26.940 of a thing called the heisman trophy and the kid's like yeah he's like i won that he's run a bunch of

00:45:32.060 businesses he tried acting a little bit he was in some mediocre movies he was in a gene hackman movie

00:45:36.460 he was actually pretty good in it he's run like different food companies food distribution companies

00:45:41.240 he lives in suburban chicago he shovels his own driveway he drives his own ford truck he likes

00:45:48.460 hunting he loves barbecuing he's just a guy yeah when the uvaldi tragedy happened he paid for a lot

00:45:55.100 of the funerals very quietly he runs a charity every year bike race called bow bikes bama that started

00:46:01.180 after one of the hurricanes years ago he gives a lot of money he's prickly he's ornery he's not the best 0.96

00:46:06.220 at card shows he can be a pain in the ass but he's also endearing and lovable and just happy being a 0.89

00:46:12.140 dad and a grandpa yeah like the way you describe like he just didn't really he's like oh sports 0.98

00:46:16.660 that's something i did and that's it like he didn't like he doesn't reminisce about the old days he's not

00:46:22.220 sad he just it's that same bo jackson like what was really important to him was was family i mean

00:46:27.640 that seems like that was like family was really important to this guy all throughout his life

00:46:30.680 very much so i mean you have to remember he grew up with a single mom rejected by his father in

00:46:36.680 poverty and now he has a wife he loves and he has these three kids who he loves and he's just endearing

00:46:43.240 in that way he's endearing not being endearing like again you don't you don't want to approach

00:46:48.220 bo jackson while he's eating at a restaurant you don't it's not going to be a good scene he's not

00:46:52.620 going to scream at you but he's going to give you the look of death and tell you to walk away probably

00:46:56.560 but he does the important things well he plays a lot of golf too that's not important he plays a

00:47:01.940 lot of golf he's just a likable his life is likable i think it's much cooler than if you

00:47:07.680 were hosting a podcast right now you know talking about his old memories and if he was arguing why 0.96

00:47:13.480 he should be in the hall of fame like he doesn't give a crap yeah this doesn't give a crap it's the

00:47:17.080 best i love that he doesn't give a crap so i mean after researching writing about his life what are 0.97

00:47:21.380 the big takeaways or life lessons i think one is just like don't care don't don't take this stuff so 0.95

00:47:25.740 seriously because it's not that important in the long run i imagine that's one lesson right

00:47:29.280 i think that's a huge one i also think if you want to go a little deeper and this doesn't

00:47:33.500 i don't think he bemoans it but just because you have a gift doesn't mean you you can't just coast

00:47:41.060 on your gift like he probably coasted on his gift like he could have been a much better baseball

00:47:47.400 player like a much much much better base he had mike trout talent mickey manor talent but he didn't

00:47:55.180 really want to go to fall league and hang out with prospects and he didn't really want to do that

00:48:01.460 stuff and the good news is he doesn't care in hindsight he's not upset about it but i think

00:48:05.260 the bad news is he could have he could have been a mickey manor or dave winfield or someone like that

00:48:10.300 but he didn't he didn't really work at it hard enough i don't think do you think it was a mistake

00:48:14.800 to play two sports like spreading yourself too thin is that a lesson it's a good question i mean

00:48:20.060 not for him because i think he did exactly what he wanted right i think if you have if you do it you

00:48:25.620 really have to think it out i think in this day in this day and age where people are much more

00:48:29.620 intelligent about physiology and sort of how the body works and recovery recovery time

00:48:34.680 you know health nutrition intake it'd probably be better designed back then it really was all right

00:48:42.400 baseball season's done i'm gonna take a couple weeks off then i'll play football football season's done

00:48:46.300 all right i'll nap a little bit then i'm gonna play baseball like the constant abuse on the body

00:48:50.940 without really thinking enough about the body but not he didn't have a personal trainer throughout

00:48:55.240 those times giving him sort of maintenance tips uh i think that would have helped a lot or yeah you

00:49:00.820 just put ice on it like if it hurts ice that's it right well jeff this has been a great conversation

00:49:06.500 where can people go to learn more about the book and your work i'm on that awful thing called twitter

00:49:10.560 at jeff perlman and my website jeffperlman.com and the book is available

00:49:14.480 where you know all book buying platforms fantastic well jeff perlman thanks for your time it's been a

00:49:19.420 pleasure yeah thank you so much my guest today was jeff perlman he's the author of the book the last

00:49:24.780 folk hero the life and myth of bo jackson it's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere

00:49:28.920 you can find more information about his work at his website jeffperlman.com also check out our

00:49:33.160 show notes at aom.is slash bo where you find links to resources where you delve deeper into this topic

00:49:37.500 well that wraps up another edition of the aom podcast make sure to check out our website at

00:49:48.480 art of manless.com where you find our podcast archives as well as thousands of articles written

00:49:52.100 over the years about pretty much anything you'd think of and if you'd like to enjoy ad-free

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00:50:33.300 you

The Art of Manliness - November 02, 2022

Bo Jackson, The Last Folk Hero

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