Could Sleeping in Separate Beds Improve Your Relationship？
Episode Stats
Summary
Dr. Wendy Troxell is a clinical psychologist, a sleep specialist, and the author of Sharing: A Couple's Guide to Better Sleep. In this episode, we discuss how sleep not only affects people s relationships, but how people's relationships affect their sleep, and how this bi-directional dynamic can become either a vicious or virtuous cycle.
Transcript
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Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
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Now, when it comes to advice around getting better sleep, nearly all of it is directed
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at the individual sleeper who feels they've got room to improve.
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Here's how to straighten out your sleep hygiene.
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Yet for the millions of people who are sleeping with someone else in their bed, this advice
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leaves out a huge elephant in the room, the other person sharing your sheets.
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As my guest today argues, a shared bed means shared sleep issues that need to be tackled
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She's a clinical psychologist, a sleep specialist, and the author of Sharing the Covers, Every
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We begin our conversation by discussing how sleep not only affects people's relationships,
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but people's relationships affect their sleep, and how this bi-directional dynamic can become
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either a vicious or virtuous cycle, depending on the quality of sleep a couple gets.
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We then talk about the various issues couples deal with in sharing a bed, from snoring to
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We also get into complications that come with bringing kids into the picture, and Wendy
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gives her take on the issue of family co-sleeping.
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From there, we turn to solutions for shared sleep problems and dig into the idea of sleeping
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Wendy impacts the way the taboo around separate sleeping has waxed and waned throughout history,
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why it works for some couples, and the options for implementing it, from sleeping in separate
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bedrooms to a more moderate approach called the Scandinavian method.
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Wendy also gives advice to couples who want to continue to share the same bed, but struggle
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with the fact that one person is a morning bird and the other is a night owl.
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After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash shared sleep.
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So you are a sleep specialist, and you have studied how sleep problems manifest in individuals.
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You help people with their sleep problems as well.
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But you also study how sleep problems can affect society and couples.
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Well, when I first started my research career and I was pursuing my doctoral degree in clinical
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and health psychology, I've always been fascinated by relationships and understanding how and why
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relationships and, frankly, our social environments more generally are so important, not just for
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our mental health, but also for our physical health.
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So we know, for instance, that married people or partnered people live longer, happier, and healthier
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lives than their unmarried or unpartnered counterparts.
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And it's not just being married that matters for health.
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It's really being in a high-quality relationship that can provide a real boost to your health,
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including your risk of chronic illnesses such as heart disease.
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What we don't know is how do these relationships get under the skin to impact such chronic health
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And that's when I had this kind of aha moment that I had to start studying sleep and specifically
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the role that sleep plays in the life of a couple and how sleep may help explain why some
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relationships are health protective, whereas others may confer health risks.
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Because we know, of course, that sleep is vitally important for our physical health and our mental
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health, and it also happens to be the one health behavior that is traditionally shared among
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And yet very few people in sleep research or throughout the history of sleep science have
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studied sleep in the social context in which it occurs.
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I mean, if you just think about the typical sleep laboratory setup, what do we do?
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We bring individuals into a laboratory under tightly controlled conditions, and we isolate them
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But this isn't what sleep in the real world looks like.
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Sleep in the real world is often noisy, interrupted, and most importantly, shared, often with a
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Okay, so yeah, I think that's really interesting.
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That's why this book really jumped out to me, because you're right, we've had sleep experts
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on the podcast where we've talked about the downsides of having sleep deprivation, or you're
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So people have probably read articles about it.
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Like, if you're not getting enough sleep, you increase your risk for heart disease, as you
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said, Alzheimer's, insulin resistance, or diabetes.
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Then on the psychological level, sleep deprivation can lead to depression, anxiety, and other
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But then, yeah, you make this really great case, and you've done research on this, is
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that the lack of sleep can also affect or negatively influence our relationships.
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So it's wonderful that we're all becoming more and more aware of the profound individual
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consequences of sleep disturbances, ranging from, as you said, risk for heart disease,
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depression, anxiety, and even Alzheimer's disease and other dementias.
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But people are less aware of the fact that, and I would say it's equally important, that
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there also are profound interpersonal consequences of sleep loss and disruption.
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This is coming from both, you know, my research team as well as others.
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The research clearly has shown that when people are poorly slept, they're more likely to engage
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in the very types of behaviors that the relationship experts, including the renowned Dr. John Gottman,
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have deemed to be the most toxic types of relationship behaviors, and the behaviors that are most
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So this includes the fact, studies have shown, that when we're sleep-deprived or we experience
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sleep loss, we're more likely to display hostile behaviors, our frustration tolerance is lower,
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we're more prone to conflict, and we're less able to read our partner's emotions.
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Add on top of that, the fact that sleep problems can predict the onset of mental health problems
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like depression and anxiety and substance use problems, and you can really have a toxic combination
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I mean, if you have kids, you understand whenever your toddler, your kid doesn't get enough sleep.
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Like one of the first thing, you know, they're cranky.
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And we think, well, that doesn't happen to adults, but no, the same thing happens to adults as well.
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A child meltdown because of sleep deprivation looks very similar in some ways as an adult meltdown.
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Maybe we're not having a tantrum, but we do become irritable.
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And when we kind of have those negative behaviors, we're most likely to take it out on our partners.
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We can kind of regulate ourselves a little bit more when it comes to our boss or coworkers,
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But that irritability and that frustration tolerance, which is lowered, can really, you know,
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we're prone to snap at our partner, the person who's always supposed to be there for us.
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And what causes that increase of frustration sensitivity?
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Is there something going on in the brain because of lack of sleep that would result in us in
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Well, there's really elegant research showing that, you know, sleep plays a key role in our
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And it also does have an impact on the parts of the brain that are kind of the emotion centers,
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So that becomes under sleep deprived conditions.
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We see an amplification in amygdala responses, which is, again, that sort of hot, fiery emotion
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And we actually see a down regulation in the prefrontal area, which is really sort of the
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reins in the brain system trying to kind of regulate those hot, fiery emotions.
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So you have an, you know, kind of, you know, up regulation of, of the fieriness and sort
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of the tendency to snap or become angry and less control of our emotions because the down
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So not only, that's another thing you highlight too in the book is not only does sleep deprivation
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So when our spouse or partner asks us to do something in the morning, we just like, ah,
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But it also, it can increase feelings of loneliness too, for some weird reason.
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Like you actually feel lonelier even when you're sleep deprived, even though you might, you know,
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That feeling of, I mean, we can feel lonely even, you know, with a partner and that's sometimes
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And elegant work at Berkeley has shown that under sleep deprived conditions, people tend
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to subjectively feel more lonely regardless of what the actual social context is.
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And what's really cool about that research is that they also showed that loneliness is kind
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of contagious, that sleep deprived people were rated by external reviewers as being more
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lonely, but the reviewers themselves after, you know, sort of looking at these sleep deprived
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So there can be this sort of loneliness contagion.
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And you could imagine in a couple how that kind of, if both partner is feeling kind of lonely
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and disconnected over time, that sense of disconnection is a really powerful predictor of relationship
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It's when couples start sort of moving apart and they're not quite sure why their relationship
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is no longer satisfying, that it's not feeding them anymore, but they're just sort of living
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So in addition to our sleep deprivation affecting negatively affecting relationships because we
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get snappier, we feel lonely, we feel disconnected from our spouse or partner.
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You also, there's research that says the quality of a relationship can also positively or negatively
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So on the negative side, I think this is kind of intuitively obvious to most people.
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If you're going through a rough spell in your relationship or you have a, you know, conflict with your
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partner during the day, that can really disrupt your sleep that night because relationship
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conflict or, you know, relationship strain is a major source of stress for most people.
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Brant Hassler, who's from the University of Pittsburgh and I, we did a study a number of
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years ago in which we measured couples' daily relationship behaviors and nightly sleep quality
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What we found was that for men on nights when they slept worse, the next day they reported
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But for women, we found evidence for the reverse direction, okay?
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So for women, we found that on days when she reported feeling less satisfied in her relationship,
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that night, both her sleep and her partner's sleep suffered.
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So in other words, if she's not happy, no one's sleeping.
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But what this research shows us with these bidirectional associations, some of which may be
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gender dependent, you can easily see if sleep is affecting relationships and relationships can
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in turn affect sleep, you can have this vicious cycle emerge.
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There can also be virtuous cycles if we turn this around, wherein if we prioritize sleep
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and relationship health, we can have healthy sleep begetting healthier relationship behaviors
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Yeah, I can totally see the vicious cycle happen.
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You get a bad night's sleep, that affects the relationship, the relationship's bad the
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next day, and that just makes the next night's sleep bad.
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Or it could be the opposite way, bad, you know, a fight with your spouse, then you don't sleep
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I'm curious, in your research, and also you're also a therapist, you work with people and couples
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Have you, is it usually like, what precipitates, what starts the vicious cycle?
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Is it like usually a lack of sleep or is it the bad relationship?
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Well, I mean, I think, obviously, there's a bit of a selection bias because I'm known as
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I am a general clinical psychologist, but people generally come to me for sleep issues.
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So I hear a lot about the, you know, the sleep disturbances effects on the relationships.
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However, even in my, you know, clinical sleep context, relationship issues are often a precipitant
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of sleep problems for, you know, not all of my patients, but many.
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So, so again, even in the kind of etiology of sleep problems that, you know, people will
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come to me to treat relationship, you know, stress in the relationship or divorce or separation,
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those are often identified by the patient as, you know, kind of when their sleep problems
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But I also see the other side of that because I'm treating the sleep problems that my patients
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will acknowledge that, and particularly if their partners come in, they will also acknowledge
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that the sleep problem in one partner is really having an impact on the couple as a
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What are the problems couples might experience when it comes to sleeping?
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What issues do you often see with partnered sleeping?
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Because I think that's an important thing because I think people will typically, I got
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They usually, as you said earlier, it's usually, well, what's my problem?
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They never think, well, how's my, how's my, my wife or my husband contributing to this?
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And, you know, here's a big thrust of the book too, is that we need to kind of get over
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this idea that, you know, a sleeping problem is my problem or your problem.
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Because if a couple shares a bed, the bottom line is that problem is a we problem.
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It is an interdependent phenomenon because sleep is shared for many adults.
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So we really have to start thinking about it that way and problem solving at the level
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But in answer to your question, in terms of the types of problems that are most commonly
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faced by couples when sleeping together, and here I mean in the literal sense, not the
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biblical sense, you know, the big one, of course, that we hear about most frequently
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is, you know, that one partner snores and that keeps the other partner up.
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But of course, there are other sleep disorders as well, like insomnia or restless leg syndrome,
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which can have effects both on the individual as well as the partner.
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Couples may have differences in sleep-wake schedules or patterns.
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One's an early bird or a morning lark and the other's an evening owl, or they may have
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As any parent will tell you, the presence of children can wreak some havoc on couples'
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And then, of course, there are just differences, kind of more mundane, run-of-the-mill differences
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Maybe you have differences in preferences for firmness or softness of the mattress, or one
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of you likes it hot in the bedroom, the other likes it cold.
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Or maybe one partner likes to, you know, bring their phone into bed and scrolls through their
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phone obsessively before falling asleep, whereas the other partner is really trying to practice
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And again, the other big point I make in the book is that just because you love a person,
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you know, and you're committed to them, doesn't mean you're necessarily going to automatically
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be perfectly compatible when it comes to that roughly third of our lives that we spend together
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Yeah, it's funny, you know, there's a lot of relationship advice, you know, before you
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get married, you're supposed to talk about, okay, what are your, what's your approach to
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You talk about that, but never crossed my mind to ask my wife, like, so are you a morning
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And, you know, it's one of the few things that, you know, again, for most couples, it's
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actually that entire time period is generally shared together.
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And we just assume that, you know, it's going to work or we default to these ideas of how
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couples should be and that it's just naturally going to work.
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And, you know, it doesn't always sort of work that seamlessly.
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And without having any dialogue about, you know, how do we work through this?
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I think that that can create tension that's unnecessary in couples.
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So that's, again, kind of the purpose of the book is to like start the dialogue that, you
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know, sleeping together isn't always easy or automatically compatible, but there are
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strategies to work together, you know, to make it work.
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So besides differences in circadian rhythms, can anyone, you know, someone can be a night
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Are there differences between how men and women sleep that can cause problems, like from
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Yes, there are a number of biological sex differences in sleep that, of course, can cause
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Though generally speaking, I want to mention that the challenges that couples face when it comes
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to sharing a bed apply to all types of couples, straight, gay, young, old, newlyweds,
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But as far as sex differences go, the short answer is this.
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Women tend to suffer more from sleep disturbances and sleep disorders characterized by poor sleep
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quality or kind of lighter, non-refreshing sleep.
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Like they're more, they're about twice as likely to have insomnia as compared to men.
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They're also more likely to have restless leg syndrome as compared to men.
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On the other hand, men are more likely to be loud sleepers.
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So statistically speaking, at least, men are more likely to be snorers or to have the clinical
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disorder known as obstructive sleep apnea that's characterized by loud snoring or gasping
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for air at night, which can be, of course, very disruptive.
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So you can kind of imagine how among heterosexual couples, the pairing of a sex that tends to be
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lighter sleep, more prone to sleep disturbances with a loud sleeper could create some conflict
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So besides issues between sleep differences between the couple, you also talk about adding
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kids to the picture can also create problems or exacerbate sleeping problems.
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Well, you probably don't need me to tell you this.
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You just need to ask any parent of a child that the presence of a child has profound impacts
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Research shows that after the birth of your first child, couples experience a precipitous
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And also, as every parent will tell you, having an infant in the house is a surefire way to
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Given what we know about the consequences of sleep loss on our moods, our behavior, and our
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ability to communicate effectively, it stands to reason that sleep loss can be a major driver
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of relationship conflict and that sort of deterioration, at least temporarily, in relationship
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And again, this is also why it's so important for couples to start acknowledging the importance
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of sleep in the life course of their relationship.
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Because, you know, thankfully, you know, the sleep problems and sleep deprivation of having
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a newborn, it doesn't last forever for all your newborn parents out there, but other sleep
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problems do emerge and, you know, over the course of the development of your children.
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So I can tell you as a parent of two teenagers, definitely not the same level of sleep deprivation
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that I had when they were infants, but there is sleep disruption when you worry about when
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they'll come home at night, especially with young drivers.
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So having children certainly is just another factor that comes to play that can kind of
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shake up the boat when it comes to couples' sleep and acknowledging that and recognizing
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that some of this is very, you know, time-limited and related to a very normal, typical part of
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You know, having a newborn, most people will experience some level of sleep deprivation.
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If you can label it as that, and if you can maybe give your partner some distance,
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that this is not about you, you know, being just a fatally flawed person or a bad person
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That can give some healthy distance and help couples kind of manage these rough spots better.
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And you talk about too, when you bring a kid into the family, particularly a newborn,
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Like, what are we going to do to make sure we both get some good sleep?
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I think it's been a while since I've been a newborn parent, but I remember, so my wife's
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And I think when we first had our kids, it was like our sort of arrangement was, because
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you know, babies, you know, newborns, they got to eat all the time.
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Yes, they got to eat in the middle of the night.
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So it was like, if it's before two o'clock in the morning, like wife would take care of
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If it was after two or three, then I would get up and take care of it.
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Yeah, well, I mean, I think couples who are able to recognize their sleep-wake differences
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and then use them in their favor, that's a really healthy approach.
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And generally speaking, yes, and the key for couples struggling with the, you know, sort
00:20:59.940
of temporary nature of, you know, sleep deprivation caused by the birth of a child, it may feel
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like it's lasting forever, but it really doesn't.
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Finding ways to, you know, help your partner out so that you can maybe, you know, swap nights
00:21:13.060
when one partner is on for the nighttime caregiving duties where the other partner might get that
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blessed, you know, four to six hour chunk of sleep, which makes a world of difference
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But again, it's about sort of acknowledging this exists and it's going to have an impact
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So how do we work together to avoid the impact harming us, you know, more long-term in our
00:21:39.200
Really supporting both and recognizing that, you know, feeling slangry, the term for, you
00:21:44.840
know, sleepy plus angry, kind of like hangry, you know, that it's not about your partner
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It's about the situation, which is causing sleep deprivation.
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And we know that sleep deprivation can have really profound impacts on your mood and your
00:22:01.060
Now I can attest to the fact, even after the newborn phase, your kids are still going to
00:22:06.240
Like this week alone, I've had, we've had two separate kids come into our bedroom at like
00:22:11.940
They had like a leg pain, like I got growing pains.
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And so we had to like wake up, Tylenol, you know, it's just still happens.
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Now the good news is, you know, that, you know, temporary sleep disruptions are really
00:22:30.900
What we want to avoid is, you know, really chronic disrupted sleep or insufficient sleep
00:22:38.720
That's what the research shows is really most strongly associated with negative health outcomes.
00:22:43.280
So doing whatever you can to protect your sleep when you can, and, you know, working
00:22:47.980
with your partner so that, you know, if you're going through a period, a longer period of
00:22:52.620
time, for instance, where a child is waking up a lot in the middle of the night, how do
00:22:56.160
you find ways to maybe sort of reciprocate with your partner to make sure that each of
00:23:01.720
you gets some decent sleep, at least occasionally.
00:23:05.060
So you don't have that buildup of chronic sleep deprivation, which can have the most
00:23:11.740
We're going to take a quick break for your word from our sponsors.
00:23:17.700
Another thing you talk about in the book that, you know, some families do, they do shared
00:23:21.900
So it's like the baby sleeps with the parents and then they just continues like in the
00:23:25.720
toddlerhood and some, for some families that works out great.
00:23:29.520
But then you've also, there's couples you highlighted where that was like, that was
00:23:33.420
That was kind of a point of contention in the relationship.
00:23:36.680
So the issue of, you know, family co-sleeping, you know, it's a hotly debated and controversial
00:23:42.040
And from a medical standpoint, what I always say is, you know, co-sleeping, if it's done
00:23:47.280
safely, you know, is really a family level decision.
00:23:51.480
And again, when I say safely, that means that there's appropriate bedding for the, for the
00:23:55.100
infant or the child and that, you know, that there's not substance use involved on the part
00:24:00.980
But here's the thing, what is missing for so many families is the actual act of making
00:24:07.680
it a family decision for some couples and families.
00:24:11.660
If it is an active choice to co-sleep, it can be, you know, the right choice for that family.
00:24:18.280
What happens for many families is that it's not an active decision or a proactive and mutual
00:24:24.440
decision, rather maybe the infant or child starts, you know, sleeping in the bed because
00:24:29.380
they're having, you know, issues sleeping in their own bed, but the couple never arrived
00:24:36.360
So I've seen clients who come to me with issues with their child sleeping, but it's really
00:24:43.440
And I'll ask one partner, so what's your goal here?
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And one partner may say, I just want my child to sleep through the night.
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The other partner will say, I just want my child to sleep through the night in their
00:24:59.060
And before we can problem solve and do anything really effective to support the child's sleep,
00:25:04.520
I have to help the couple come together on, well, what's your couple level goal?
00:25:08.920
Because what's most important for children when it comes to their sleep is following a consistent
00:25:16.860
So if there's, you know, those few little word differences in those two statements makes
00:25:22.880
a big difference because if one partner just wants that child to sleep wherever it is, and
00:25:27.320
the other partner wants that child to sleep in their own bed, well, that can lead to a
00:25:31.900
great deal of inconsistency in the kind of routines and behaviors the family will practice
00:25:38.060
So be intentional about shared sleeping, co-sleeping.
00:25:46.860
And, you know, having an open dialogue with your partner about it, about what are our goals
00:25:51.680
and, you know, what are the pros and cons of each?
00:25:55.400
You know, what will this mean both currently and, you know, a few years from now?
00:26:00.580
And, you know, how is this going to work in the context of our relationship?
00:26:03.720
And, you know, couples may have sort of best laid plans to try one approach and they may
00:26:10.860
But again, that's okay to sort of switch directions, but do it in an intentional and proactive way
00:26:16.460
and stick with it because consistency is what's really key for children.
00:26:22.320
So let's put aside the issue of family sleeping and there's kids.
00:26:27.300
Let's talk about the solutions for sleeping mismatch problems between a couple.
00:26:31.900
And the most significant one, I've been reading more and more about this, is for the couple
00:26:41.240
Now, a lot of people don't want to talk about this idea because sleeping in separate beds
00:26:47.000
I mean, the feeling is like, oh, if a couple is sleeping in separate beds, that means the
00:26:51.860
What's interesting, in the book, you explore the cultural history of partnered sleeping and
00:26:55.920
you highlight the fact that throughout history, there's been sort of this swing back and
00:26:59.700
forth between the acceptance of separate sleeping arrangements and then sleeping together.
00:27:04.660
Key walks through that history so we can get an idea of how we as a culture thought about
00:27:10.680
This is really a fascinating part of doing the research for my book because I'm not myself
00:27:15.600
a historian, but I had the opportunity to read historical texts and interview some prominent
00:27:22.840
She wrote the book, At Days Closed, which gives a historical perspective on how sleep has
00:27:31.060
So kind of here's what history and historians tell us.
00:27:34.660
I mean, throughout Western history, sleep has been a social behavior.
00:27:39.920
And in fact, in medieval times, sleep wasn't just, you know, it wasn't just a marital bed.
00:27:44.440
It was really the shared communal bed with, you know, family members, even, you know, could
00:27:54.140
And sort of where you got to sleep in the bed sort of was a sign of sort of where you
00:28:01.200
But then you can fast forward to the Victorian era.
00:28:04.680
And it was at that time de rigueur to be able to sleep in separate bedrooms.
00:28:09.780
It was a sign of prestige in part because only the well-to-do couples could afford to sleep
00:28:15.920
Again, in earlier history, the bed in the bedroom was kind of one of the most prized possessions
00:28:21.060
and the most expensive possessions of a family.
00:28:24.100
So, you know, people could not afford to have separate bedrooms.
00:28:27.600
So in the Victorian era, you know, being able to sleep apart was a sign of your wealth.
00:28:33.980
And there were also some half-baked science ideas at the time that suggested that disease
00:28:41.420
So you can take that a step further and make the point that, and doctors of the time did
00:28:46.680
that, you know, your partner's morning breath could literally make you sick.
00:28:51.100
So therefore, if you can afford it, best to sleep apart.
00:28:55.660
Then we jumped to sort of the 1950s and we see, you know, popular television shows like
00:29:01.260
I Love Lucy still perpetuating the image of a married couple, both on and off screen,
00:29:10.060
And there were even Hollywood regulations for what could be, you know, acceptable on screen
00:29:15.520
that if a man and a woman were in the same bed, one person had to have a leg on the floor
00:29:22.360
as if this was some sort of like chastity belt, keeping them from, you know, any hanky-panky,
00:29:28.660
And then you kind of shift forward again to the sexual revolution of the 1960s.
00:29:35.300
And we see the pendulum shift in the opposite direction.
00:29:38.560
This is where we start to see this taboo attached to sleeping apart as if sleeping apart is
00:29:45.720
necessarily a sign of this, you know, loveless or sexless union.
00:29:50.000
It was really this reaction to kind of the image of this kind of prudish, you know, behavior
00:29:57.680
And to some extent, we still see that stigma attached to sleeping apart.
00:30:03.140
Although there's some evidence that as more and more couples come out and admit that they're
00:30:08.200
perfectly happy, but, you know, it's working for them and their relationships for many different
00:30:18.180
Again, so the fear is people like, well, I don't want to do that because that just like,
00:30:22.960
It's like, it's a sign that our relationship is on the rocks.
00:30:25.240
But there's also research saying that people who, couples who decide to sleep apart, they
00:30:34.300
In fact, it could possibly help the relationship.
00:30:39.720
So I would actually say that the research specifically on, you know, relationship quality when couples
00:30:46.300
Though I can absolutely say anecdotally, I've met with many couples who say that sleeping
00:30:51.800
apart has, you know, been the lifesaver for the relationship and they're so much happier.
00:30:56.820
And again, what I say to all couples is that there is not a one size fits all sleeping strategy
00:31:05.600
What we do know quite clearly from the science is that when you're well slept, you're able to
00:31:13.860
So, you know, regardless of your sleeping arrangements, what couples need to do is prioritize both
00:31:20.120
of their sleep because that will make both of them better partners.
00:31:24.540
And for couples who do decide that sleeping apart makes sense in their relationship, I
00:31:31.060
also recommend that it's really important to still kind of savor the cuddle or the time
00:31:37.400
that they spend together in bed before falling asleep, because that's often the most important
00:31:43.480
time for sustaining and maintaining a healthy relationship.
00:31:47.580
So I still believe that the marital or otherwise shared bed really still holds an important place
00:31:57.140
And we need to preserve that and avoid the tendency to let, you know, external factors and distractors
00:32:03.160
like our phones interfere with that really sacred time where couples just get to be together,
00:32:09.140
hopefully for some quality time, whether it be for intimacy or just to talk or cuddle or
00:32:20.240
And it often does occur before couples fall asleep.
00:32:24.240
So even if you go your separate ways at bedtime, that's really important to preserve.
00:32:29.240
For other couples who choose to sleep apart, you know, there can be some relationship benefits
00:32:33.940
because they have this sort of mini reunion in the morning when they come back together
00:32:38.760
after having a good night of sleep or for couples who have, you know, temporary sleep
00:32:44.800
They've reported that, you know, they find that it kind of spices up the relationship.
00:32:49.080
Again, I want to make it quite clear that I say throughout my book and whenever I speak
00:32:54.740
on this topic, what I want to avoid is being prescriptive about this in any way to all couples.
00:33:01.280
It is not for me or anyone else to tell you how you should be sleeping with or without
00:33:07.820
It's really about recognizing how important sleep is in the life of your relationship and
00:33:13.020
then finding the strategy that's going to work best for you.
00:33:16.180
Well, so one option that some couples do is they'll get two full-size beds and they'll
00:33:23.840
So they're still together, but they're also separate.
00:33:29.640
That could be really helpful if you've got one person who's a tosser and turner or who's
00:33:34.520
That kind of thrashing, again, it has both individual effects and couple-level effects.
00:33:40.260
So having even a king-size bed, even though you can kind of be at your separate corners,
00:33:44.660
if somebody is thrashing enough or enough of a sheet stealer, they can still grab all your
00:33:49.980
So the Scandinavian method, it typically involves putting two twin beds together because two
00:33:56.420
And it allows both partners to have their individualized preferences for the mattress,
00:34:04.080
And then you can actually, for some couples, they prefer to have sort of a communal comforter
00:34:12.040
So for those who are still a little concerned about any sort of stigma attached to separate
00:34:16.860
beds, this makes it look like one king-size bed, but the actual beds themselves and the bedding
00:34:26.980
So the Scandinavian method is a good option for sheet stealers, for restless sleepers, or
00:34:32.080
couples where one person, they want a warmer mattress and warmer sheets.
00:34:36.220
The other person wants a cooler mattress and cooler sheets.
00:34:39.100
Or maybe you and your spouse get up and go to bed at different times and you want to disturb
00:34:45.820
And you found that with couples that do this, the Scandinavian method, they've got separate
00:34:52.080
beds technically, but maintaining intimacy, this isn't an issue.
00:34:57.300
It's like, you know, we have these really entrenched beliefs that, you know, the literal meaning
00:35:03.860
of sleeping together and the biblical meaning of sleeping together, i.e. sex, have to be one
00:35:11.800
You know, there are many ways for couples to find intimacy and, you know, it doesn't
00:35:16.940
only have to happen right before bedtime or in the middle of the night.
00:35:20.840
You know, couples should really be open to, you know, being intimate and having sexual
00:35:27.560
So if, you know, one of you is an extreme night owl and one is an extreme, you know, morning
00:35:33.260
person, you know, you need to find ways to, you know, problem solve and find times that
00:35:38.340
you're both going to even be interested and awake for sex because being exhausted is a
00:35:46.440
So again, prioritizing sleep is good for the relationship in all sorts of ways.
00:35:52.640
So sleeping separate beds or the Scandinavian method where you get separate beds, put them
00:35:58.180
Another option you're hearing a lot more about is couples just sleeping.
00:36:03.700
Like they're going like Lord Grantham's got his bedroom and then Lady Grantham's got hers
00:36:08.440
Like what would cause, I mean, in your experience, what would, what causes a couple to make that
00:36:15.120
Well, I mean, first of all, it depends in part on sort of your resources and, you know,
00:36:25.840
So in that way, we're, you know, it's sort of similar to, you know, that time where, you
00:36:29.780
know, separate bedrooms were in fact, a sign of prestige.
00:36:32.160
And, you know, if you live in a New York apartment and you're well, if you're lucky enough to
00:36:38.520
But, you know, so first of all, it can be a resource issue, resource issue.
00:36:42.600
But for those who, you know, have the space available for a separate bedroom, generally
00:36:47.340
speaking, you know, there's some issues that can, you know, only be solved or best be solved
00:36:55.220
So the Scandinavian method is not going to help the partner who, you know, has a partner
00:37:00.260
who, you know, snores like a foghorn every night.
00:37:03.620
You're going to need to be in separate rooms and ideally down the hall from each other.
00:37:07.860
If the noise disruption is the primary cause of the sleep disruption.
00:37:12.940
But I also should mention if, you know, snoring and if it's really loud snoring is the primary
00:37:17.820
cause of sleep disruption before you jump to separate bedrooms as being the only solution.
00:37:23.520
It's also really important to encourage a partner to, you know, seek medical attention
00:37:28.300
and determine, is this a sleep disorder that could be treated and that failure to treat
00:37:36.940
So the takeaway there, if you decide to go, you know, if the sleep incongruencies are so
00:37:41.660
Like the takeaway there is make sure, again, it's intentional.
00:37:47.500
And also make sure you maintain a figurative marital bed at some point in the sleep process
00:37:55.120
so that you can maintain just that, just that connection with your.
00:38:00.860
And, and again, that intentionality is so key and it's something that we just, we don't
00:38:06.340
have practice in doing because there's not a great amount of dialogue around, you know,
00:38:11.160
kind of what's working, what's not working in the bedroom when it comes to sleep.
00:38:15.080
And so what too often happens and where issues can, you know, arise for couples is that, you
00:38:22.540
know, there's never a discussion about sleeping apart.
00:38:25.280
It's just that one partner ends up stomping out of the bedroom onto the couch or kicking
00:38:32.220
And that's where sort of the resentment can build because there's not a discussion about
00:38:37.900
This isn't working because neither of us is sleeping well.
00:38:40.460
It becomes really an act of anger and resentment.
00:38:43.220
And then the other partner can end up feeling abandoned.
00:38:47.080
Don't slide into a separate sleeping arrangement.
00:38:49.840
So what if, okay, let's say there's problems like, you know, one, one person in the relationship,
00:38:54.380
they're a morning bird, the other one's a night owl, but they don't want to get separate
00:39:02.420
Like what works, like what can they do to sort of sync up a bit so they don't disrupt each
00:39:09.320
So what you're talking about is kind of mismatched pairs.
00:39:12.100
One's, one's a early bird, one's an evening owl.
00:39:16.580
And I've talked to a number of couples who struggle with this.
00:39:21.500
It's often that the night owl tries to go to bed at the same time as the early bird,
00:39:31.500
Well, the truth of the matter is a bedtime of 10 PM is really not reasonable for a night
00:39:36.860
So what happens the night owl ends up, you know, lying in bed, you know, feeling forced
00:39:42.140
to, you know, go to sleep at a time that their biological clock tells them they're not ready.
00:39:47.460
They lie there in bed kind of in agony, you know, staring at the ceiling, wishing they
00:39:52.240
And they simply can't because their biology is working against them in that kind of situation.
00:39:58.820
And then if the, you know, morning is based on the, you know, early bird schedule, then
00:40:03.840
the night owl has to wake up probably long before their biological clock tells them they're
00:40:09.240
And this can result in sleep deprivation for the night owl.
00:40:13.640
So it's really important for couples to, first of all, recognize that these differences
00:40:18.900
in sleep, wake preferences, particularly at these extremes, these are genetically derived
00:40:24.880
So you can't just change your sleep, wake preference because, you know, you love someone and you
00:40:31.160
If you do so, that's going to, you know, it's working against your biology and that generally
00:40:37.060
And again, you might start to build resentment towards your partner.
00:40:39.700
So what I recommend to couples who are on these mismatched schedules is to find ways to connect
00:40:48.740
Again, preserve the cuddle, but it doesn't mean that you, it doesn't mean that you have
00:40:52.560
to go to sleep or wake up at the exact same time.
00:40:56.560
So in the case I gave, you know, the couple could spend some time in bed before the early
00:41:04.700
And when it's bedtime for the early bird, the night owl could quietly leave the room.
00:41:09.700
Go have some me time, which can be really good for the individual and then return to
00:41:18.380
And in the morning, the early bird will wake up at their early time, get out of bed quietly
00:41:23.340
so as not to disturb the night owl and start their day and maybe return later in the morning
00:41:27.860
to wake up their partner, ideally with coffee in hand.
00:41:31.640
So these are the kinds of problem solving strategies that couples absolutely can do.
00:41:38.020
And it will support their sleep in both of them and also their relationship quality.
00:41:43.180
What's really interesting, there is research on the impact of being mismatched in terms
00:41:49.920
of sleep-wake preferences on couples' relationship quality.
00:41:55.940
It actually does show that, you know, couples who are mismatched have higher levels of relationship
00:42:00.920
conflict, poor relationship satisfaction, and lesser sexual activity.
00:42:05.400
But the caveat of that research, don't go run off in despair, please, is that couples who
00:42:11.740
are mismatched but have good problem-solving skills do not show these relationship impairments.
00:42:17.300
So it's really about the ability to problem-solve and, as you mentioned, being intentional about
00:42:23.740
your behaviors and finding solutions that are going to work for you as a couple.
00:42:28.280
So you don't have to fall asleep at the same time to still have some time to share some
00:42:35.040
time in bed before either of you falls asleep or maybe it's in the morning.
00:42:38.860
There's all sorts of strategies that can work, but it's about being intentional and proactive
00:42:43.440
about it and bringing the conversation about sleep into your life as a couple.
00:42:52.280
You want readers of your book, it's called Sharing the Covers.
00:42:54.540
What do you want them to take away or walk away with after they finish the book?
00:43:01.000
So, I mean, I guess what I want to impress upon people with my book is that, first of
00:43:05.440
all, for far too long, we've lived in a culture that has undermined the importance of sleep.
00:43:11.420
But even that's starting to change as we recognize the individual consequences of sleep.
00:43:17.140
But if that's not enough to change your behaviors and help you prioritize sleep for your own sake,
00:43:23.120
then I want to impress with the book and the data and the research that I provide, that
00:43:28.900
if you're not going to sleep for yourself, then do it for everyone else around you and
00:43:37.780
We really need to start focusing on sleep as being so vital for the health of our relationships.
00:43:45.580
And if you're struggling as a couple to sleep well, there's not a reason to despair because
00:43:50.860
there are strategies that work, but we first have to start having a dialogue around the
00:43:57.360
importance of sleep as a couple, and then we can start problem-solving and finding strategies
00:44:02.780
that will both improve your sleep and your relationship health.
00:44:07.000
And that's exactly what the book is intended to do, to provide couples with actionable techniques
00:44:11.640
that can improve both of their sleep and in turn improve their relationship health, recognizing
00:44:16.840
that these two things are intricately intertwined.
00:44:21.080
Well, Wendy, this has been a great conversation.
00:44:22.520
Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?
00:44:25.220
The book, again, is available online at all major retailers.
00:44:29.320
It's called Sharing the Covers, Every Couple's Guide to Better Sleep.
00:44:33.060
I'm also on Twitter, Wendy Troxell, and you can also check out my website, wendytroxell.com.
00:44:45.520
She's the author of the book, Sharing the Covers.
00:44:47.600
It's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere.
00:44:49.740
You can find out more information about her work at her website, wendytroxell.com.
00:44:53.300
Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash shared sleep, where you can find links to
00:44:57.500
resources, where you can delve deeper into this topic.
00:45:06.540
Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM Podcast.
00:45:09.220
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00:45:12.520
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