The Art of Manliness - Developing the Warrior Within

00:00:00.000 brett mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness podcast as a member of

00:00:11.300 the ottawa tribe and someone who's worked with over 500 tribal nations my guest has long been

00:00:15.520 inspired by his native american culture and heritage particularly the tradition of native

00:00:19.340 warriors and he thinks those warriors have much to teach all modern people about work

00:00:23.120 life and leadership his name is dj vanis and he's the author of the warrior within

00:00:27.220 own your power to serve fight protect and heal today on the show dj explains what the warrior

00:00:32.300 spirit is and how important it is for everyone to cultivate especially those who want to lead

00:00:36.380 serve and live with a purpose bigger than the self he takes principles of native american tradition

00:00:40.920 and philosophy including living off the land taking a vision quest counting coup being a fire

00:00:46.100 keeper and developing toughness and shows how they apply to anyone who's looking to develop

00:00:49.840 resilience achieve their goals and make a positive impact on the world after the show's over check

00:00:54.600 our show notes at aom.is slash warrior spirit

00:00:57.260 all right dj vanis welcome to the show thank you so much for having me brett so you got a book out

00:01:16.900 called the warrior within own your power to serve fight protect and heal we're gonna talk about this

00:01:22.540 book today i really enjoyed it let's talk about your background first you are a speaker and a

00:01:26.860 leadership consultant how'd you get into this business oh my gosh i kind of fell into it to be

00:01:32.360 honest with you it opened a doorway i didn't even know existed i'm a graduate proud graduate of the

00:01:37.300 u.s air force academy and when i graduated from there i had a conversation with the recruiting office

00:01:44.080 because i said hey there's you know there's only a few of us who are native can we work on changing

00:01:48.720 that i basically i i got hired to work for them for a year and i went out and i spoke to tribal

00:01:56.000 communities in particular all across the nation and talked about the benefits of the air force academy

00:02:01.160 being an officer in the military and i found that i absolutely loved it being out there and and being

00:02:08.460 able to share a message of you know higher education of self-improvement and it kind of grew

00:02:13.340 from there and into this it kind of became a life of its own and just kind of took off so i had to

00:02:20.420 make a choice at a certain point between being a full-time officer and starting my own speaking

00:02:26.060 business and it was a good problem to have it was really stressful but that's that's how it came to

00:02:31.320 be it just kind of opened a pathway and took on a life of its own okay so you mentioned that you

00:02:36.500 are native american you're a member of the ottawa tribe of michigan i had to look that up because we

00:02:40.900 have we have an ottawa tribe of oklahoma that's part of our tribe too one of the bands who actually

00:02:46.640 got moved down there during the trail of tears right and uh i believe they were in northeast or

00:02:51.580 northwest ohio as where their community was but everybody else stayed back in michigan so you uh you

00:02:58.660 started off your speaking career started off by you're sort of like a liaison for the air force

00:03:04.480 to the native american community right then you decided i'm gonna i could do this on my own i really

00:03:10.120 enjoy here so what who are your main clients like who who hires you to come speak and and teach yeah

00:03:15.580 great question the majority of who i serve and it's my wheelhouse is those who are in service to others

00:03:22.440 so people who are in health care education benevolent businesses government and tribal employees

00:03:28.580 community builders at every level i mean that's where my heart is it's who i you know so enjoy serving

00:03:35.640 i grew up in a very service-oriented family too my dad was career military my mom was a career nurse

00:03:40.340 so i grew up seeing that mentality and then seeing the you know the cultural alignment with what our

00:03:47.280 you know warriors were all about which is to be in service to others it just all kind of dovetailed

00:03:52.920 together into what i share now and that that's why those are the groups i serve most often and like i said

00:03:59.080 i i love being where the givers gather and something that makes you unique from the other you know

00:04:04.100 consultants and speakers out there is that you you call upon you look to your your native american

00:04:08.920 heritage to show people that there are principles there that that can apply to anyone when did you

00:04:13.880 make that connection like oh this could serve a wider audience yeah i think that started early on i mean

00:04:19.440 probably my teenage years definitely in college absolutely once i joined the military i started to see

00:04:25.720 this beautiful alignment between you know these ideas these these cultural principles especially

00:04:31.160 specifically you know what our warriors used and saw great alignment in the world that we live in

00:04:37.500 today how useful they can be and they've been tested under the worst of times they were tested you know

00:04:42.840 our warriors fought against incredible odds they were outmatched technologically in numbers and it just

00:04:49.780 having those principles at our disposal gives us resiliency strength you know focus and commitment in a very tough

00:04:56.500 world so i thought that's that's when i started making that connection everything started to change

00:05:01.780 okay so let's talk about some of these principles and what you do in this book is you take ideas

00:05:07.280 practices from all sorts of tribes uh in the united states but i think oftentimes when people think about

00:05:13.160 native americans i think sometimes there's this idea that they're sort of a monolith but they're not

00:05:16.940 every tribe is unique they have their own unique culture and practices absolutely you'll go ahead i was

00:05:22.300 going to say we have diversity within diversity yeah we have over 570 federally recognized tribes

00:05:27.600 that speak over 200 different languages different belief systems cultural you know concepts a lot of

00:05:34.540 commonalities but yeah there's definitely a lot of diversity that's why i enjoy so much working in

00:05:39.200 tribal communities so you you kind of found some principles from from different tribes and showed

00:05:44.020 people like what you can learn from this whether you're in your as you said you're you're focused on

00:05:48.100 leaders people who serve health care doctors first responders etc let's talk about this definition

00:05:54.680 of a warrior right do you think all these people could be considered warriors what does it mean to be

00:05:59.860 a warrior in native american cultures and how does that differ from our typical conception of a warrior

00:06:05.540 in the west yeah great question my tribe we call a warrior ogichida and that term has nothing to do

00:06:13.160 with what we see in tv and movies you know the stereotypical image that hollywood image that we

00:06:18.320 all know you know the sweaty chiseled figure that you know steps down the street and knocks over

00:06:23.160 buildings with bazookas and bad guys you know with eight million bullets it's a it's a different

00:06:28.380 concept and and it goes back to um the idea of a person who dedicates their life to developing their

00:06:37.320 creator given talents and abilities so they could become an asset or a benefit to the tribe that they

00:06:42.600 served and today whether that tribe is your own family your community your team your agency your

00:06:47.980 organization your nation the planet we all get to choose what tribe we serve but we all have one

00:06:54.780 and that warrior role was all about service it wasn't about what we could get it was about what we could

00:07:01.160 do for someone else it was somebody who led by example and somebody who did not quit that was a really

00:07:07.680 important part as somebody who found a way forward because they knew it wasn't about them

00:07:11.580 it was about the people that they were taking care of and contributing to and so your book's called

00:07:16.900 the warrior spirit so is the warrior spirit just that internal drive to develop your talents so that

00:07:23.980 you can be a service to other people absolutely yeah the warrior within in the book i unpacked the

00:07:29.700 warrior spirit in particular and it goes beyond motivation i mean it goes to a a spiritual level

00:07:35.700 if you will i mean it's that deep internal core of us that comes out when we're challenged when we go

00:07:41.800 through hard times when we go through loss or pain we're fear and it's that reserve that we can pull

00:07:48.840 from in those moments and that warrior spirit is that no quit bare knuckle i will find a way forward

00:07:54.840 even if i have to crawl across the finish line type of attitude you know it's fiercely solution oriented

00:08:00.440 and it it suffers no fools you know it is it is all in and that's what i try to unpack in the book is that

00:08:08.400 this is what sustained our warrior societies for our tribes because like i said they went through

00:08:13.760 incredible odds incredible setbacks deprivation you know organized genocide and they still found a way

00:08:19.700 to deliver and protect their people and what does that warrior spirit look like in someone who

00:08:27.360 you know they're in a leadership position like as you said you're the people you're you're writing

00:08:32.020 for or talking to the the first responders the the people who serve etc yeah that warrior spirit is it

00:08:40.200 first of all it has to be fostered you know it's who we surround ourselves with how we what habits we

00:08:44.660 practice for ourselves but like i said it's that internal core of a spirit that is willing to face fear

00:08:51.940 head-on that's willing to accept when things aren't going well being able to change and not let

00:08:57.260 our pride and ego determine you know the fact that we're just going to keep banging our head on a

00:09:01.560 brick wall there's there's a lot of things that go into it but that warrior spirit is that

00:09:05.720 unquenchable fire you can't put it out it's always there the only question is is it burning down to an

00:09:12.340 ember which sometimes happens when we're not taking good care of ourselves and surround ourselves with

00:09:16.660 the right people or have the right practices or is it burning like a bonfire that's the only question

00:09:21.980 we always have it but what we do with it is up to us yeah i think a lot of people when you when

00:09:28.040 as you're describing this i i've experienced that when there's something that i'm doing that's more

00:09:33.420 it's more it's beyond just money right it's not just a job it's like a calling right but i think all

00:09:39.720 right and you get excited and you're you're you're willing to you know put in the long hours and the

00:09:45.280 upsets and the frustrations but as you said sometimes that warrior spirit can sort of go down to an

00:09:51.380 ember that's when people start feeling burnout and you're just like i don't want to do this anymore

00:09:55.320 and that's why i wrote the book i mean to be honest with you those people who i said i love being around

00:09:59.740 most you know those people who have a servant's heart and are trying to make the world a better

00:10:04.100 place i have watched this dynamic for over two decades of people who have the best intentions noble

00:10:09.740 intentions and their execution is a hot mess you know they're they're trying to give everything they

00:10:16.640 can on a daily basis but they're not taking care of themselves they're not doing what they need to

00:10:20.860 stay strong they're not practicing resiliency on purpose not having it as a good thought in your

00:10:26.960 head but actually practicing it and what they end up doing is falling apart and they stand back and

00:10:33.040 they look at the debris field left and they go how the heck did this happen and what it comes down to

00:10:37.480 is that the reality the truth you can't be a warrior when you're falling apart you know i wrote the book

00:10:43.680 so that people can be resilient not for this week or this month but for a lifetime for a career

00:10:49.520 you know there are people depending on us to deliver the goods to be brave in a moment of fear

00:10:54.240 we can't do that if we just go until we can't anymore and that's you know it just it leads us

00:10:59.980 to burn out it's not a sustainable model and we want it to be sustainable okay so let's dig into some

00:11:05.400 of these principles that people can apply to foster that warrior spirit and keep it keep it burning

00:11:10.560 bright and the first principle you look at from native american culture is this idea of learning to live

00:11:16.620 off the land what does that look like yeah that's uh learning to live off the land i've been inspired

00:11:22.600 doing this work for 25 years now i've worked with over 500 tribal communities every single one of them

00:11:28.320 used what was in their backyard to create success you know the the pueblo people in new mexico live in

00:11:34.120 an area that's you know very harsh hot in the summer cold in the winter they literally use the mud in

00:11:40.460 their backyard to create adobe and create these beautifully engineered multi-level apartment complexes

00:11:46.220 built into the side of a cliff by the way that some of which are still standing today my people

00:11:51.360 will use birch bark for everything for shelters for containers and the canoes that made us famous

00:11:56.160 we also tapped the trees in our backyard specifically maple and created a wonderful concoction called maple

00:12:03.220 syrup you're welcome and that that's you know how we use those you know resources that are right in our

00:12:10.600 backyard in a modern day context we have a wealth of resources in us and around us on a daily basis

00:12:18.360 and an embarrassment of resources that we sometimes don't recognize and we don't tap we don't leverage

00:12:25.160 and including simple things like our time our energy our talent i mean really basic stuff let alone you know

00:12:34.500 technology other people i mean we should never feel stuck or that we can't find the answer and and that's what

00:12:41.100 that learning to live off the land is all about is be aware situational awareness you know look around take a

00:12:46.740 resource list you know when european europeans made it to the shores of north america they thought native people

00:12:53.160 were magic we were mystics because we were such good observers of what was going on and had such a great

00:12:59.800 understanding of our resources that it bordered on magic you know in the eyes of the europeans so

00:13:05.540 we can develop that in our daily lives as well just by taking the autopilot off and really recognizing

00:13:11.480 what we have to work with no i've seen this dynamic play out in my own life and also the lives of other

00:13:16.140 people where they got this grand goal they want to accomplish for the greater good but then they think

00:13:22.200 before i can even get started i need this and i need that thing i need this and because they do that

00:13:26.720 they don't ever they never get started that's it it's that prepare to prepare to prepare to prepare

00:13:32.440 and then we never actually take action you know when i when i started well again going back to that

00:13:38.540 tribal centric way of thinking you know using our resources our warriors could use a rock and a stick

00:13:44.480 and shape the rock and shape the stick into something that could get dinner defend the village you know

00:13:50.820 skin uh or a scrape of skin multi-purpose tool based off of a rock and a stick you know i started

00:13:58.160 my business i was scared to death when i started i was an officer full-time in the military you know

00:14:03.140 very stable lifestyle you know good pay great benefits and full of purpose but when i left i went

00:14:11.220 into basically a blue sky type of project and there was a lot of fear there and i started my business

00:14:16.740 with literally a kinko's business card and a sky pager yeah and and so you just have to start where

00:14:24.260 you are and grow from there and i see i think a good practice that people can do in their own lives

00:14:30.100 before they say you got this this goal they want to accomplish before you get going just like make a

00:14:35.160 list of the resources you have already at your disposal and like you have to be like you said

00:14:40.240 situationally aware to to so you don't overlook really obvious things in your life yeah and that's

00:14:46.720 a that's a great practice i mean it really is is to be able to do that before you start taking action

00:14:52.300 is just get organized you know list all the things that you've got to work with list all the people

00:14:57.360 in your network that you could ask these questions i am blown away by when i get stumped sometimes

00:15:02.020 that i you know 99 and a half times out of 100 i have somebody in my immediate network that has an

00:15:09.840 answer or could probably find an answer to what's stumping me and so when we're able to take an

00:15:14.700 assessment like that a few things happen that are great number one we're much more likely to find a

00:15:20.220 solution to our challenge two we're a lot more confident in dealing with fear and setbacks and

00:15:25.140 number three we're rekindling restrengthening those bonds when we reach out uh to connect with other

00:15:30.420 people that have resources we need because down the road we're going to have resources they need too

00:15:35.100 so one of the resources you talk about in this chapter is this idea of the medicine bag

00:15:39.820 what is the medicine bag in native culture yeah a lot a lot of our tribes have a version of a

00:15:46.260 medicine bag and just being you know general with this it's a it's a bag that held sacred items to

00:15:52.060 the wearer so that the items in there could be um you know herbs or tobacco you know sage it could be

00:16:00.280 animal teeth or claws it could be a stone it could something that has significance for the person wearing

00:16:06.740 it because when they have that around them again we're confident we're brave we're courageous we

00:16:12.660 have something we can lean on because we know we are literally carrying part of our own power around

00:16:18.240 our necks and the way that we do that today is is kind of taking that assessment again of all the

00:16:24.260 stuff that's in our own medicine bags our skills our talent ability education the wisdom that we learn

00:16:30.200 in life by by taking it in the chin you know those are sometimes the lessons that are number one

00:16:35.380 most valuable and number two the ones we never forget and we tend to overlook those in times of

00:16:40.460 struggle and what i encourage people to do is you know instead of getting a freaked out deer in the

00:16:45.080 headlights type of look like we get look down at your medicine bag open that thing up and see what

00:16:50.140 is in there you have collected so much in there uh you've got more in there than you need in 100

00:16:54.840 lifetimes but we but it doesn't do us any good if we don't know what it looks like and we don't

00:16:59.900 bring it out and use it all right so principle number one learn to live off the land look at the

00:17:04.440 resources you have be having an abundance mindset instead of this uh scarcity mindset right another

00:17:11.420 principle you talk about is this idea of vision quest and this is a part of warrior cultures across

00:17:16.520 tribes uh this is something you've done and i'm wondering could you share about your personal

00:17:21.160 vision quest and you know like what the process is like and you know more importantly how did it change

00:17:25.420 you yeah it was well it was transformative you know um first and foremost it's a ceremony that we do to

00:17:32.360 get to seek guidance in our own life journey and so we do that by isolating ourselves in a small patch of

00:17:41.380 wilderness for you know days and nights on end uh no food no water no shelter and i will tell you

00:17:48.380 you get more clarity in that exercise in that ceremony than i've ever been able to do in any

00:17:54.760 other aspect or any other activity in my life i mean you literally let everything kind of fall away

00:18:01.420 you're out in wilderness no media no fighting your way to traffic on the way to work no other people

00:18:07.320 around it's just you your prayer pipe the outdoors and your creator and i tell you what it is like the

00:18:15.220 ultimate exercise in letting the mud settle in your dirt or letting the dirt settle in your mud puddle

00:18:20.240 um you you get back to a place of clarity you really reprioritize what's really important in this

00:18:25.600 life um and when i was out there you know i didn't think about politics i didn't think about career moves

00:18:31.740 i didn't think about uh arguments that i had or petty squabbles uh or you know any of the other stuff

00:18:37.920 taxes the stuff that kind of gets you know weighs down on our head i thought about water i thought

00:18:43.800 about shelter food the people i love the kind of person i want to be in this life and so it was a

00:18:50.260 it was an ultimate exercise in clarity uh when you go through that and i mentioned in the book you know

00:18:55.580 we can get that we don't have to go through that ceremony to get clarity in our life and career

00:18:59.760 um we can spend the first 10 minutes of every morning letting the dirt settle in our mud puddle

00:19:04.980 and get a lot of benefit doing that what is what what would that look like just taking 10 minutes

00:19:11.120 of solitude quiet time you know no media no no phones no checking your email just having a bit

00:19:17.700 of quiet space to kind of reflect on what you need to get done that day what type of person you want to

00:19:24.400 be in that day and have the grace and the strength to handle whatever may come your way pre make that

00:19:31.440 decision before the day starts and the quality of our our day shoots through the roof when we're able

00:19:38.200 to do that because so often we just roll right out of bed and jump into our life and we're kicking

00:19:42.840 up dust and sometimes we don't even know if we're going the right direction when we give ourselves a

00:19:47.460 little bit of that solitude we give ourselves a great gift in this crazy world we give ourselves

00:19:51.960 clarity in a world of chaos and something else people could do too and you talk about this in the

00:19:56.940 book is they could even go deeper with this that beyond that 10 minute daily thing and actually set

00:20:01.980 aside time where they go off somewhere where they have time just to think about their mission in life

00:20:07.740 what are their their motivating values and i think you know stephen covey famously talked about this

00:20:12.620 idea of having a personal mission statement and he'd often encourage people to you know take a weekend

00:20:17.060 where you're just going to think about what it is that you're about not only professionally but as

00:20:21.740 you're as a as a member of a family a community etc and really hone in on that vision because that's

00:20:28.300 the thing when things are going tough you can always fall back to that and let that be your your guiding

00:20:33.800 your guiding star yeah it's an anchor point and the thing is we're the ones who define that not

00:20:40.900 our supervisor not our organization not our friends not our family we're the one who defines that this

00:20:45.820 is our life this is our gift and if we don't define that for ourselves then we allow other people to do

00:20:51.300 it for us um and sometimes that you know that can go arrive very quickly um but yeah that that same

00:20:59.180 idea of taking a weekend taking a sabbatical uh a vacation you know 10 minutes of solitude in the

00:21:04.900 morning this is why so many of our ceremonies you know across indian country had um this element

00:21:12.360 incorporated into it because our elders and ancestors knew that the quieter we are in that moment the

00:21:17.940 louder that voice inside of us comes out and we can't hear that when we're constantly immersed in chaos

00:21:24.220 when we're running around with our hair on fire and um you know living the lives we typically live

00:21:29.800 and wonder why we're not getting where we want to go we're gonna take a quick break for your word from

00:21:33.980 our sponsors and now back to the show a concept you discuss in the book is this it comes from the

00:21:42.800 plains tribes they had this warrior practice of counting coup what is counting coup and then let's

00:21:48.080 talk about how can leaders count coup in their work yeah counting coup is a great tradition that

00:21:53.980 the plains tribes warriors practiced and what it was and the reason why it was such an honor is

00:21:59.820 because of what it required uh counting coup was going up to your enemy during live combat and not

00:22:05.760 striking your enemy down with a tomahawk or a lance but simply touching them touching them with your

00:22:11.280 hand or with what's called acoustic like it looks like a riding crop and that that's it you just

00:22:16.160 touch them because of what it required was the ultimate act of courage to stand face to face

00:22:21.380 with your fear with your obstacle with your enemy and say i am not afraid of you i'm so not afraid

00:22:27.960 of you i'm not even going to destroy you or strike you down i'm just going to face you eye to eye and

00:22:33.480 we have to do that in our own lives i mean it's a great tradition that has a beautiful alignment with

00:22:38.780 what we deal with on a daily basis which is fear and we can run away from it we can you know we end up

00:22:44.600 exhausted it still shows up or we can just face it and once we face our fears we're able to do some

00:22:50.980 things in that moment that really help us out we can start asking ourselves a question like what story

00:22:56.200 am i telling myself about what i'm going through right now um we can ask ourselves questions like

00:23:00.820 is that story real or is this just fear showing up in my life um we can ask ourselves questions like

00:23:07.320 are these thoughts useful because sometimes we're just ruminating and we're building up an obstacle

00:23:13.060 or a challenge into this giant mountain based on the things that we're saying over and over again

00:23:17.980 this isn't going to work out it can't work out oh my gosh who am i to do this you know we've got to

00:23:22.440 be able to face our fears head on so that we can go through them um if if not then we can't move

00:23:28.320 forward well one tip you provide is uh for people to develop their own war cry uh what can a war cry do

00:23:35.500 to help develop that warrior spirit yeah war cry was done traditionally by our warriors for two purposes

00:23:41.240 one was you know and and first of all just to clarify a war cry was you know a full-throated scream

00:23:46.860 you know wild gestures you know just and it was done for two reasons one was to scare the hell out

00:23:53.520 of the enemy so you want to win the battle before the fight even starts that was the first reason

00:23:57.860 and the second reason was to boost our own adrenaline to boost our courage when we need it the most and a

00:24:04.340 war cry now if you if you you know bring it into modern day terms doesn't have to be a full-throated

00:24:10.360 yell it can be a prayer it could be a mantra it could be a motivational quote that you go to as

00:24:16.920 a touchstone it could be something that you wear it could be a song you know anything can qualify

00:24:22.680 as that but it's something that you go back to in a moment of doubt fear hesitation that when you go

00:24:28.580 back to that touchstone and use that war cry we have what we need in that moment which is just a

00:24:35.940 little boost of courage so we can take that next step well i know uh in the lakota hoka hay was the

00:24:41.980 war cry yeah like it's a good day to die yeah it's a pretty it's a pretty good mantra for for life that

00:24:48.840 means i'm all in you know like like leave it on the table i'm not holding anything back this is my life

00:24:54.940 i want to live it fully and i want to live it fully right now i don't want to wait for tomorrow or next

00:24:59.560 week or when i get this done or when i retire i want to do it today right now in this moment

00:25:04.900 and i think sometimes people roll their eyes at the idea of having a mantra but it can't help when

00:25:09.260 you're when you're in that stressful situation i think you know sports psychologists talk about that

00:25:13.680 a lot of these high performance athletes they have a word they'll just tell themselves when they're

00:25:17.440 doing that you know putt that's you know worth a million dollars they just repeat that over and over

00:25:23.000 again it's to control it's to control the fear that's it and and the thing is words do matter

00:25:29.660 the words that we share with other people matter the words that we share with ourselves matter they

00:25:35.440 have real impact they condition our brain they give us direction and guidance that you know the way that

00:25:41.180 we talk about something a situation or or even ourselves is kind of that primer yeah that that kind

00:25:47.040 of sets us up for a belief system towards that moment or towards ourselves so our words absolutely

00:25:53.020 matter we've all experienced that words can cut words can build the thing is we need to make those

00:25:58.660 choices conscientiously so we can you know create that environment of strength around us so i i you

00:26:04.660 know i use these type of things all the time they really work because like i said the question isn't

00:26:10.100 if fear shows up the question is when it does how are you gonna handle it so lately the past few years

00:26:16.820 one of the parts of american history that i've gotten really into is the the indian wars i think it's an

00:26:22.300 overlooked part but it's just completely fascinating because you learn so much about

00:26:27.540 native american warfare and their strategy especially after the civil war there's some

00:26:32.440 i mean there's there's stuff that happened that the native americans did that later on the u.s

00:26:36.800 military incorporated into their strategy and one of their tactics was this idea of just constant

00:26:42.720 raiding warfare and you use this idea to talk about the importance of taking action so what can

00:26:48.820 we learn about taking action from raiding warfare style of of native americans plains tribes yeah

00:26:55.000 great question and what it came down to was wearing the enemy down right because our warriors were

00:27:00.420 outmatched technology wise numbers wise so when it came to that warfare that raiding type of warfare

00:27:07.920 it was attack and then melt away attack and then melt away until you win or until you know you defend

00:27:14.400 your your people and can get away and when we talk about how important that is i mean that it really

00:27:19.920 did have a real world impact i mean this is how the american colonies defeated the most mighty military

00:27:25.680 in the world at the time the british empire to form the united states i mean they used those tactics

00:27:32.620 precisely and it it made a huge difference it changed history how we use that in our own lives is we

00:27:39.060 attack an object or or we create momentum towards our goal a little bit at a time and when we when

00:27:46.480 we need a break we take a break we need another resource we get that but we keep moving forward

00:27:51.340 incessantly towards our goal and it's not about doing everything in one day that's what leads to

00:27:56.440 burnout that's what leads to frustration it's doing a little something every day that's what ultimately

00:28:01.840 gets us to the goal that's what ultimately gets us to victory and so that's why i use that analogy in

00:28:07.240 there because so so often you know we start off strong we're like i'm gonna do it all today

00:28:11.380 and we're all you know we're all gung-ho and then when things get rough we pull back and say things

00:28:18.000 like well i guess it's not meant to be i guess it's not going to work out after all you know we have to

00:28:22.400 have that relentless type of attack you know regroup and attack again until we get to where we want to be

00:28:29.680 no i like that because i think you're right i've done that before where i have this project i want to

00:28:34.120 take on and then i just decided i'm not going to stop until i i finish it and then i just burn

00:28:39.060 myself out and then i'm useless i'm useless for like the next couple of weeks and it would have

00:28:44.280 been better if i just you know tacked a little bit and yeah you said go back take a break and then

00:28:48.200 just keep because you can do it for longer man this is why boxers yeah i boxed in college i mean this

00:28:53.180 is why boxers take breaks in between rounds you know and the reason why is because you recharge

00:28:58.820 your batteries you know spiritually emotionally and physically so you can get back in to the fight

00:29:04.100 and be effective you can't do that if you just go until you can't go anymore that's that's burnout

00:29:09.700 and then we're no good to anybody but then you also talk in this chapter about action the importance

00:29:14.960 of developing momentum how do you develop that momentum so you can have that ceaseless relentless

00:29:21.180 you know attack and retreat attack and retreat yeah momentum is so critically important in

00:29:26.540 achievement because it's it's doing those little steps that get kind of the the energy that we want

00:29:33.000 to create flowing in the right direction it's like pushing a stalled car you know those first couple

00:29:37.800 steps can be back breakers and this is what makes most people walk away from their goals or the things

00:29:42.980 that they're trying to achieve as a leader is those first couple steps are back breaking but once you

00:29:47.860 get the momentum going it's a lot easier to keep that car going down the road and so it's those little

00:29:53.660 things that we do daily that's what i was saying it's you know the small stuff that we do each day

00:29:58.260 that creates momentum in the goals that we're trying to achieve and there's also something else from

00:30:05.500 native warriors that we could possibly learn from like they didn't fight all year round there was a

00:30:10.640 season for fighting and then there was a season for hunting i think there's something you can learn

00:30:14.740 from that you're gonna have periods where you have like a war season i got this thing i need to do

00:30:18.860 but then you also need to have periods where it's rest and recuperation and recovery that's it and

00:30:25.200 when we do that we're sustainable in what we're pursuing if we don't do that we just quickly very

00:30:31.440 quickly sometimes get to burnout we get frustrated we get you know we have health issues relationship

00:30:36.640 issues it just we push ourselves in a way that you know it's it's like our life and career start to

00:30:42.160 feel like a treadmill with one button on it faster so if we don't take that recovery time that's

00:30:47.660 exactly what happens i don't care how strong you are physically mentally emotionally you keep doing

00:30:51.820 it that way it's only a matter of time before you fall off the treadmill so taking those breaks and

00:30:56.580 respecting the season and the flow like you're talking about that that's one of the you know

00:31:00.920 native american philosophies that every tribe i've worked with has which is the concept of balance

00:31:05.280 you know there's a day for night a joy for pain into every life and career you're going to have

00:31:09.760 your victories and you're going to have your stumbles and your you know your humility moments that's all

00:31:14.680 part of the deal and you can't get away from it when we violate that like i said we end up in bad

00:31:21.240 places that we don't want to be yeah i think this idea of recovery this is going to the idea of

00:31:26.240 maintaining that warrior spirit once you got it going you have this whole chapter about the fire

00:31:30.100 keeper what's the fire keeper native american culture and like i mean let's flesh out more this

00:31:34.980 idea of keeping that fire going yeah yeah the the fire keeper was a sacred role in our travel

00:31:40.920 communities and it was all about keeping that that fire that beating heart of that community burning

00:31:46.200 and under all conditions any circumstance and especially during ceremony a fire keeper's role

00:31:51.960 is really really important because if that fire goes out the ceremony is often ruined and so you know

00:31:59.400 and fires provide a lot of things for villages that are are critical you know food for sustenance

00:32:04.040 light heat but also a gathering place for people to exchange ideas and and rekindle bonds in our own

00:32:11.440 life we have that fire too and it's that internal drive it's that you know you can call it motivation

00:32:15.600 inspiration and we are responsible for keeping it burning bright and when we don't do that it can

00:32:21.720 burn down to an ember sometimes it even goes out and that's because we falsely think that you know

00:32:28.000 that what we do is automatically going to provide us motivation and it doesn't work that way

00:32:33.280 uh i don't care if you're an imagineer for disney a you know astronaut a teacher trying to you know

00:32:38.860 change the landscape of inner city education we get into things because we know that they have value

00:32:44.340 to us and we want to make an impact so we think that we're always going to be motivated but that's

00:32:50.240 not the case we have to create that in our lives on purpose with purpose that's why we keep that you

00:32:55.780 know that's how we keep that fire burning bright so what are some practical things that people can do to

00:32:59.660 you know keep that fire burning that you've seen work in your life and your clients lives

00:33:03.680 yeah go go out of your way for it you know start the day with reading something inspirational or

00:33:08.700 uplifting or educational surround yourself with people that keep you thinking keep you moving in

00:33:13.860 the right direction you know consciously choose the things that are in your environment on a daily

00:33:19.380 basis your habits your practices the growth elements you know the things that we're watching that we're

00:33:23.920 listening to our support structure who we lean on in times of trouble when we have a problem that

00:33:29.660 you know is we're really stumped or we're really feeling scared where are you going to go in those

00:33:34.020 moments these things all really matter plus the thing that we're talking about all those things

00:33:38.880 can help keep us at that level that we want to be as far as staying motivated motivation is not a magic

00:33:44.380 bullet you know i do you know i tell a story in some of my sessions about and people who are scared

00:33:49.460 to fly and if they're scared to fly you wouldn't want to run into a pilot who said they don't know what

00:33:54.100 they're doing but they're awfully excited to take off that's you know that pilot may have great

00:33:59.700 motivation but still needs experience skills training the reason why motivation is so important

00:34:06.240 it might not be everything but it surely affects everything that we do and it's up to us to create

00:34:12.880 it and maintain it yeah i really like that idea of you have this in that chapter you talk about

00:34:16.580 tribing up make sure you find surround yourself with people who will support you and just i don't

00:34:21.740 nurture you i think i think a lot of people lack that today because they just feel like they're

00:34:25.280 doing it on their own and it's amazing when you just have you can sit around with people

00:34:29.580 maybe kvetch a little but then just talk how much that can just buoy your spirits and so you can keep

00:34:36.800 going absolutely i mean this is medicine for us i mean it really is and it's who we surround

00:34:43.120 ourselves with and being able to have those moments where we do lean on other people let them lean on us

00:34:49.260 you know i i have a principle in the book that i share and and explain and it's that warriors never 0.62

00:34:55.980 fought alone fighting alone is dumb you know you are not going to get the results that you want to

00:35:01.980 get when you're just out there lone wolf in it you know there's moments in time where we're doing 0.97

00:35:06.200 things on our own i get that but overall we need each other we're better when we're with each other

00:35:11.220 or let me caveat that with the right people and it's up to us to make sure we're surrounding

00:35:15.960 ourselves that way quickest way i've ever seen to become a happy healthy human being

00:35:19.960 surround yourself with happy healthy people quickest way to become negative toxic a complainer a

00:35:25.180 gossiper surround yourself or allow those people to be in your environment had an elder years ago tell

00:35:30.580 me something that the older i get the more i see it to be true he said our spirits are like sponges

00:35:34.620 they soak up whatever they're around no that's true and i think a lot of people this yeah this idea of

00:35:39.080 a lone wolf it's appealing but even in you know native tribes the lone wolves often got kicked out

00:35:45.500 like they were that's it they were useless like they actually caused problems that's it and the thing

00:35:51.140 is that that you know there's an over romanticizing of that warrior role when we start labeling it as

00:35:58.120 something that it never was you know that warrior role we put them we put them on a pedestal on a

00:36:02.820 mountain and they are beyond pain beyond fear they need no one only the next worthy challenge

00:36:08.380 which is a bunch of garbage our warriors fought in the company of other warriors because if you want 0.67

00:36:14.000 to be brave you surround yourself with bravery they didn't do it on their own and the reason why is 0.96

00:36:19.700 because you know we had to get our pride and ego out of the way and remember what the role of a warrior

00:36:25.180 was to serve their people not just you know to feed and protect their people not to feed and protect

00:36:30.880 their ego so that lone wolf you know image is just it's it's false it gets us into trouble because we

00:36:37.180 think if we're really gonna you know channel that warrior spirit and be a warrior we have to go it

00:36:42.440 alone i have to do this myself which is absolutely positively not true and it's and it's not a good

00:36:49.080 strategy either another principle you talked about that really hit home to me in this keeping the fire

00:36:53.700 burning is taking time to celebrate your wins your past wins yeah why do you think that's important why do

00:37:00.040 we tend to not do that yeah because if we don't do it we condition ourselves not to care

00:37:05.080 you know taking the time to celebrate the wins the victories we do such a poor job of that because

00:37:11.380 we're so busy being busy you know we we can accomplish a great goal and instead of going man let me reflect

00:37:17.520 on what this took you know to take a few moments to to really acknowledge what it took for me to get

00:37:23.240 here we don't do that we just blow right through and go on to the next thing and then the next thing and

00:37:27.540 the next and that's what leads us to burnout you know we're really good at celebrating victories

00:37:32.360 when we first start our careers jobs we first join a sports team whatever it may be at the beginning

00:37:38.020 we're good at it you know we do one little thing right we're like you know celebrate high five but

00:37:43.980 we get really bad at it as we get busier and busier and we need to go out of our way to do that because

00:37:49.500 what it does is it it sweetens the flavor of success so that we crave another one and we're

00:37:56.580 conditioning ourselves to want that next thing when we actually reward ourselves for doing the

00:38:01.440 last thing well correct me if i'm wrong but isn't there something like like the war song in tribal

00:38:07.180 cultures like a warrior would develop their own war song it was basically them just talking about the

00:38:11.840 great epic deeds they did yeah i mean that was that was part of post-battle it was reflecting on you

00:38:18.340 know who did what why it mattered the impact that it had for the people i mean this was part of it it

00:38:24.160 was the reflection time and it was a celebration time if there was a victory and and also you know

00:38:30.200 memorializing the people who were lost if if it didn't go well and you know that is an important

00:38:36.280 part you know to think about as well as you know when we do that we're able to gather wisdom and

00:38:43.080 teachable points you know from what we just went through we can't do that like i said if we just blow

00:38:48.200 past and go on to the next thing so you have this chapter about how different tribes develop discipline

00:38:54.760 and toughness in their warriors what are some practices that you found in different tribes and

00:38:59.740 what can we learn from that yeah it was exposure to the elements it was going without food water at

00:39:06.100 times it was it was long runs it was games you know rough games stickball stickball i've seen that

00:39:13.920 that's rough it brutal and they called it the little brother of war for a reason you know these

00:39:20.360 were played on big fields or hardly any rules there was a clear goal but how you got there was you know

00:39:27.380 innovation fierceness toughness it was kind of like a mix between football basketball soccer and ufc

00:39:33.080 and and these are the things that brought out you know tough times don't necessarily develop

00:39:40.400 character but they sure reveal it and these were opportunities that

00:39:43.920 warriors in training had to develop their own but you know when you do that you develop that

00:39:49.700 that toughness that ability to flex under strain that ability to bounce back when you fall those are

00:39:57.020 the opportunities that you know we created on purpose to develop strength in our warrior societies

00:40:03.620 so what can that look like for just someone who's not native american it could be that next hard

00:40:08.920 workout it could be disciplining yourself to to change habits that aren't serving you anymore

00:40:14.860 it could be doing tough things on on a normal daily basis and you know that they're tough you know an

00:40:21.280 exercise of courage to face that next thing like we're talking about facing our fears head on

00:40:25.840 it's not you know the stuff that we typically think swimming with sharks or wrestling alligators

00:40:30.560 it's starting that project it's asking for help it's apologizing it's realizing that you know what

00:40:39.340 you're doing over and over again isn't working you know these things are also you know also require

00:40:44.240 courage so we get to practice that on a daily basis but it's it's basically putting ourselves

00:40:48.880 in a position to toughen ourselves up so that when times really do get hard we're able to weather that

00:40:55.200 so for a warrior you know they're they got to be vigorous they got to be disciplined tough

00:41:01.220 physically active there's a certain point where a warrior ages out right you're when you're 60

00:41:07.040 you probably can't be a warrior as well as you were when you were 22 but that doesn't mean that

00:41:13.780 they're they stop being warriors what happens to warriors when they when they age out and they're not

00:41:19.860 actually able to physically fight and take part in raids we get to a certain point even in our own

00:41:24.520 lives and careers just like those warriors who got older where we start getting into more of a

00:41:28.780 transition phase where we're not we don't have as much responsibility maybe we're getting close to

00:41:33.660 retirement and at that point the transition happens where we start benefiting our people by sharing our

00:41:40.360 knowledge and wisdom you know that's where we become an elder in our tribe and we're able to pass

00:41:46.340 down all the things that we've learned especially the stuff we learned the hard way and try to be

00:41:50.760 able to make somebody else's journey a little bit easier a little bit more effective

00:41:54.200 and so the contribution doesn't stop it just changes and the elders in our tribal communities

00:42:01.640 are the backbone of our culture they hand down the the values and the virtues and the wisdom and songs

00:42:07.020 and ceremony and all the things that make us who we are as native people and we can do that in our

00:42:12.080 own communities in our own groups that we serve when we're handing down the things like i said that

00:42:18.020 we've learned that we know are important that can benefit our people no matter what we do

00:42:22.840 you know for a living and how long the weeks get or how tough it might be i can i can make you one

00:42:29.580 promise you won't be doing it forever you know at some point you're going to transition and hand

00:42:33.600 the baton to somebody else and i think the highest hope we can hope for if we care about who we work

00:42:39.160 with and who we serve is that we're putting that baton into better hands than our own and that only

00:42:44.080 happens by design well i have a question like how do you know when you're in that that transition

00:42:48.880 period when it's you're moving from active warrior to elder warrior yeah i don't think there's a hard

00:42:55.840 fast line you know i mean it's a it is a transition in its purest sense it's it kind of happens over

00:43:02.280 time but i think we start to know more and more when it's time for us not to to be at the forefront

00:43:08.140 of doing the work but to more reach back and offer a hand to the people that are coming up behind us

00:43:12.820 and they're you know even in our tribal communities there was no magical age that you just become an

00:43:18.520 elder and when we try to do that we're you know putting a square peg in a round hole it's a transition

00:43:24.400 period you get to a place that where you start you know turning around i guess looking over your

00:43:29.940 shoulder and thinking about all the people that you can help with all the stuff that you've learned on

00:43:33.940 your journey so it it's something that's individual it's a personal decision but it's something to be

00:43:39.460 aware of so once you are making that transition what are some things that people can do so they

00:43:45.720 can really step into that role because i feel like i think it's interesting i'm approaching middle age

00:43:50.660 i think there's a lot of information out there for young men who are starting out like here are the

00:43:55.980 things you need to know do here's a rite of passage for you etc yeah but then once you get to middle

00:44:01.440 age and then into elder there's nothing like that there's no like here are the things you need to do

00:44:05.860 to be an elder but i think it would be useful so what are i mean do you have anything in your

00:44:10.020 experience where here's some things you can start doing once you recognize you're entering that

00:44:15.240 transition into becoming a quote-unquote elder yeah and that and that's a great it's a really great

00:44:21.900 perspective you know the first thing i would say is start collecting your stories start gathering your

00:44:26.840 stories and and find opportunities to share and when we share those stories with other people it's

00:44:33.260 not in a you know in a way that hey i've i've done all this and you need to sit down and listen to all

00:44:38.900 the wisdom i'm gonna jam down your throat it's being able to share a story where we're in a position

00:44:44.220 especially when we're vulnerable and share how things didn't go well you know that's sometimes the

00:44:49.220 best stories we can share with other people is the things that we learn when things went sideways or got

00:44:53.600 pear-shaped and how we came back and bounced and how they can too you know when we when we share those

00:45:00.040 ideas it's always in the spirit of how is it going to benefit the person i'm sharing this story with

00:45:05.880 so that would be the first thing i would say is start collecting your stories you know we've got a

00:45:10.160 treasure trove of that stuff to draw from and then find opportunities to to share it you know either

00:45:15.940 in person online at team meetings you know there are sometimes uh you know it doesn't take long

00:45:22.220 but they can be really impactful moments and some of the best ones we can share with other people

00:45:28.320 i love that well dj this has been a great conversation where can people go to learn

00:45:32.800 more about the book in your work best place to find me is on our website which is native discovery.com

00:45:39.160 my newest book the warrior within comes out very soon on august 2nd and is available everywhere books

00:45:46.560 are sold but native discovery.com is is uh the best place to get a hold of me fantastic well dj van

00:45:52.200 thanks for your time it's been a pleasure thank you so much for having me this has been an honor

00:45:56.060 my guest today was dj vanis he's the author of the book the warrior within it's available on amazon.com

00:46:01.120 and bookstores everywhere you can find more information about his work at his website

00:46:04.120 native discovery.com also check out our show notes at aom.is slash warrior spirit where you find

00:46:09.440 links to resources and we delve deeper into this topic

00:46:11.720 well that wraps up another edition of the a1 podcast make sure to check out our website at

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00:46:51.680 support until next time it's brett mckay remind you not to listen to a podcast but put what you've

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The Art of Manliness - August 01, 2022

Developing the Warrior Within

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