The Art of Manliness - Dog as Cure for the Midlife Malaise

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:11.660 Maybe you're in a midlife slump. Maybe you're unhappy in your job and marriage. Maybe you're

00:00:16.940 inactive and overweight. Maybe you've tried to change your life before, but can't seem to make

00:00:21.520 the changes stick. What do you need to do to finally turn things around? My guess would say

00:00:27.000 that the answer might be getting a dog. Jeff Goodrich is the author of Dude and Duder,

00:00:32.640 How My Dog Saved My Life. Today on the show, Jeff shares what his life was like at age 49 before

00:00:38.520 getting Duder the dog and how Duder sparked changes that helped him lose 70 pounds,

00:00:43.220 repair his relationships, and find real happiness. Along the way, we talk about advice that can apply

00:00:49.180 to anyone trying to get out of the midlife slump, even if you don't own a dog. Although Jeff would

00:00:53.940 say, you really should get one. After the show's over, check out our show notes at awim.is slash dog.

00:01:11.580 All right, Jeff Goodrich, welcome to the show. Thanks, Brett, for having me on.

00:01:15.620 So you wrote a book called Dude and Duder, How My Dog Saved My Life. And in this book,

00:01:21.860 you take readers through a midlife transformation that was kickstarted after your family got a

00:01:28.720 vizala. Is that how you pronounce it? Vizala. Vizala, a vizala that you named Duder. But before

00:01:34.780 we get to how Duder changed your life, let's talk about what your life was like before you got him.

00:01:40.180 Because I know there's a lot of our listeners probably are going through something that you

00:01:43.580 went through at midlife during their 40s, 50s, and they're feeling that slump. So what was your

00:01:49.860 midlife slump like? Great question. When we first brought Duder home with us, I was 49 years old

00:01:57.380 at the time. And there was a lot of things going on in my life. Physically, I was overweight. I was

00:02:04.280 lazy. I did not feel healthy. I just plain had a hard time rolling out of bed every day. Mentally,

00:02:11.840 I was basically depressed, did not have a whole lot of hope for the future at all. You know,

00:02:18.300 we always try to put on that good face. But under the covers, I was just coasting along and it felt

00:02:24.900 like I was just trying to get to the end of the day. How do I do this? My relationship, I've been

00:02:30.180 married for a very long time and I refer to my wife as the blonde. And my marriage to the blonde was

00:02:36.280 very, very rocky. And I had learned later on that she was actually putting some plans in place to

00:02:41.440 divorce me. The two of us, you know, we were married at 18 years old. So we've been married a

00:02:47.080 long time. So things were just plain not good. I was just coasting along in life and just feeling

00:02:55.200 crappy about life. Was there a moment that you, you know, a specific moment you realized

00:03:01.440 you weren't happy with where life was going for you? It's one of those things, midlife is like,

00:03:06.720 aging is hard because it's, it's so subtle and gradual that you don't really notice until

00:03:13.180 there's always some moment you're like, Oh boy, like things aren't good. Was there a moment for you?

00:03:19.880 Well, there, there was a, yeah, there was a very specific moment, but up until that time,

00:03:25.240 I mean, I had spent 15, maybe even 16 years living my life in this state. And I had during that time,

00:03:32.660 I had a lot of moments of, Oh, okay. I need to do something different. I didn't lose some weight.

00:03:37.380 I think I even went and joined a gym a couple of times and I made promises to the blonde. Okay. I'm 1.00

00:03:42.900 going to do, I'm going to be better. I'm going to do this different and made some promises to myself.

00:03:47.460 So I had a lot of, of moments like that, but then I turned 50 and that moment really, really

00:03:55.820 triggered some stuff. And everyone's been there that, you know, you turn 30, it's a trigger. You turn 40,

00:04:01.340 you turn 50. And that really, really was a triggering moment was just that 50. And then

00:04:07.880 looking back on my life and it really brought up all this ideas of the regrets in life and all of

00:04:13.900 that. So that was a very triggering moment. And then you also talk about in the book, I mean,

00:04:18.520 one of the biggest challenges that you had to overcome is in the 15 years leading up to turning

00:04:23.600 50, you had those moments where like, Oh man, I need to lose weight or, Oh man, my relationship needs

00:04:27.400 to be better. I need to invest more in that. And then you try and make those attempts and then

00:04:32.520 you'd backslide. And you talk about how you developed a sort of learned helplessness. You

00:04:37.320 became hopeless. That was like the biggest thing that you just felt hopeless. Like it's too late for

00:04:40.700 me to change. And I think a lot of men at that age can recognize that as well, or are familiar with

00:04:47.840 that and can relate. Absolutely. I had these moments of, okay, I need to do something different,

00:04:53.440 but nothing ever stuck. I couldn't, I didn't have the discipline. I didn't, for whatever reason.

00:04:59.520 And there's many, many reasons why that is. Some of it might be that I was just eating unhealthy.

00:05:06.120 And so my brain and body just were not operating efficiently. But looking back in hindsight,

00:05:13.440 what in the past, I didn't really understand why I should do this. I just had this idea,

00:05:20.660 I need to lose weight, but I didn't have and fully develop my why. Why should I do this? What's my

00:05:27.600 reason? And so this next time around, when I hit 50, that really became important. Figure that out

00:05:35.160 and refer to it daily. Why am I doing this? And that helped keep me going.

00:05:41.740 Yeah. I think that's one of the hardest challenges of midlife is figuring out your why.

00:05:46.080 Or this reminds me, this is like a city slickers, right? You seen that city slickers?

00:05:51.540 Yes. Oh yeah.

00:05:52.380 Right. Where the guy, he talks about, you got to find your one thing, your one thing.

00:05:57.820 Because I think when you're young, you're in your twenties, there's always a goal there for you.

00:06:03.420 That's already set in place. Well, I got to go to college so I can get the job. And then I got to

00:06:07.720 get the job so I can have a family and I got to work hard so we can buy a house. And then you reach

00:06:12.640 midlife and those predetermined goals aren't there for you. And so you have to figure out,

00:06:19.200 well, why am I going to do this stuff now? And that's, that's hard.

00:06:24.140 And so when I hit 50, you know, you start looking back, you start having regrets and you look back

00:06:29.080 at your life. And I realized that I was living my life according to what everyone else was telling me

00:06:36.840 how I should live it from what I was watching on TV, family, the news, social media, all of this.

00:06:44.960 That's how I'm supposed to live my life. So at some point along in the process here,

00:06:49.180 I switched that to, I need to find my own why and live my own life. This is mine. I'm going to

00:06:56.500 live it according to what I want to do. That was critical too.

00:07:00.900 And this is where Duder comes in. So you were 49 when you got Duder, correct?

00:07:04.920 Yep. Did your family have dogs before, before, and were you a dog family?

00:07:11.320 Growing up when I was a kid, we did not have any dogs. So I did not have dogs when I was a kid.

00:07:17.780 Early on in our marriage, we had a couple of dogs just for like two or three years. We had a boxer

00:07:24.000 and then we had a sheltered dog in our house for maybe less than a year, but that was it.

00:07:29.660 So we were not necessarily a dog. We just never grew up with dogs. So.

00:07:33.740 So what prompted you to get a dog?

00:07:35.540 It might've been like the kids were out of the house. Maybe I'm feeling lonely. It's just my

00:07:41.380 wife and I here in this house. It's pretty empty. Maybe we need something else. Maybe we need another

00:07:47.380 kid. That's kind of what it felt like. And talked to my wife into it. And she, you know, she agreed

00:07:54.780 as long as I was the one that took care of him and cleaned up the poop and did all of that,

00:07:58.840 but she agreed to it. So that's kind of how it started.

00:08:02.240 And why did you settle on the breed that you picked?

00:08:04.460 We specifically found a litter and I wanted to get a Vichla and Vichlas are bred as hunting dogs.

00:08:13.140 So they're kind of a bird dog, but there is a specific story of why I got a Vichla, why we wanted

00:08:19.440 this breed. Part of my background in my life is I've had a history of seizures and I've never been

00:08:28.000 able to figure out what the cause of that was. And I remember one particular time, many years ago,

00:08:34.780 we went over to a friend's house and they had a Vichla and his name was Bear. And I remember walking

00:08:41.540 in the door one day and this dog would not leave me alone. He was all over me, sniffing me. I went

00:08:49.520 and sat down. He went over and sat down next to me. I got up to go to the bathroom. He would follow

00:08:54.420 me everywhere. He was just obsessed with me for some reason. And it turned out that I was feeling

00:09:01.840 some of these seizures coming on. And somehow this dog was able to sense that. And I got up at one

00:09:09.540 point and went into the bathroom at my friend's house and had a seizure. And this dog, Bear,

00:09:15.200 started barking and clawing at the door because he knew something was wrong. And so my friends were

00:09:22.560 able to come get me out of the bathroom and take care of the situation. And I do remember thinking

00:09:27.520 that, okay, if I ever did get a dog in my life, I wanted to get a Vichla because this Vichla saved my

00:09:33.060 life. Are Vichlas known for being able to recognize seizures in individuals?

00:09:39.540 I think they are. There's actually a lot of different dogs that are called seizure dogs

00:09:45.480 and they are specifically trained and they can sense. I don't think we really know exactly how

00:09:52.220 they do it. It's either through maybe a scent that people that having seizures have so they can smell

00:10:00.360 them or they can notice them, but they can be trained to do things. Like if someone has a seizure

00:10:06.000 coming on, purposely climb under them. So if they fall down, they land on the dog instead,

00:10:12.380 they can be trained to go push the button to alert emergency. And so they can be trained as seizure

00:10:19.360 dogs. Have you had problems with seizures in a while or is it, have they gone away?

00:10:23.760 It's been a while. Every once in a while, I'll feel some remnants of it. But as far as like having a

00:10:31.940 full grand mal seizure, it's been many years since I've had one. It feels like I've kind of outgrown

00:10:36.300 them. And specifically in the last five years, since I've really changed things like my diet and my

00:10:42.080 exercise, I think that played a huge role in that as well.

00:10:45.440 Yeah. So the Vichla, it's a really handsome, beautiful dog. I mean, it looks like a bird dog.

00:10:50.420 Are they energetic? Do they require a lot of exercise?

00:10:54.520 Oh, yes, absolutely. He is, he's crazy energetic. I have taken him on some seriously long runs

00:11:04.600 and a couple of backpacking trips where we climbed up to King's Peak, which is the highest peak in

00:11:10.200 Utah. And he went all the way to the top with me and that's a 25 to 30 mile backpacking trip. And

00:11:15.900 he does great. They are very, very active dogs. In fact, they even list them as like third or fourth

00:11:22.900 fastest dogs in the world. So they're pretty fast as well.

00:11:26.700 So let's talk about how Duder, you got Duder when you're 49. He started to subtly kickstart your

00:11:34.120 midlife transformation. What happened when you first got him where you started making steps

00:11:39.540 unintentionally to start making changes in your life?

00:11:42.660 So here's how I like to tell the story. We bring Duder into my life. And of course,

00:11:47.980 what do you do? You take your dog for a walk. So I remember one day taking Duder out for a walk,

00:11:52.480 putting the leash on him. And we went out for this walk just the first time that we had him.

00:11:59.860 And I like to tell the story that, oh, I'm out on this walk. And I had this

00:12:03.720 grand vision of what my life should be. And, oh, I'm going to change this. And, oh,

00:12:09.280 I'm going to improve my relationship. And, oh, I'm going to lose weight and all of this. But

00:12:13.980 that's just not the way things happen. I think what happened was Duder went over to the next

00:12:19.260 door neighbor and took a crap in his yard. And so I had to go clean up his poop. And then we come back. 0.98

00:12:25.140 But what did happen, Brett, was that the next day we did it again. And then the next day we did it

00:12:31.920 again. So this subtle thing of a new habit being part of my life, just going for this daily walk

00:12:40.540 was key. And I wouldn't take the phone with me. It was just Duder and I going out for a walk,

00:12:46.520 something different. And during this time is where I was able to really spend a lot of time with

00:12:52.020 myself. Then I hit 50. Then I started looking at my regrets in life and started to really evaluate

00:12:58.400 my life and where I was. But these moments do not happen when you're sitting on the couch watching

00:13:04.880 TV. So it was key that we were outside physically moving, doing a daily walk. That's truly how it

00:13:13.420 started right there. And it continues to this day. Yeah. That idea, there's an idea from,

00:13:19.240 it goes back to like ancient Rome, solvitar ambulando, which is Latin for, it is solved by walking.

00:13:26.980 A lot of problems can get solved by walking. In fact, a lot of philosophers,

00:13:32.400 Nietzsche, Aristotle. I mean, Aristotle's school was, they were called parapetetics,

00:13:37.360 like because they walked around everywhere discussing philosophy. Henry David Thoreau,

00:13:42.480 they just, they'd walk. And as you're walking, something about it, it does, it changes your

00:13:46.580 thinking. And it sounds like that's what you're doing. So a couple of things are going on. You're

00:13:49.880 going on the walk because of Duder. He needs to go on a walk. So you have to go on a walk.

00:13:53.760 You're getting physically active. And during that time, there's a transformation going on

00:13:59.480 inside your head because you're thinking through a lot of issues.

00:14:03.100 Absolutely. And this is going on for about a year. So from 50 to 51 is when we're really doing these

00:14:10.320 daily walks. And there's three key things. In hindsight is great. Looking back, three very

00:14:15.880 key things happened. One was awareness. I truly became aware of where my life was.

00:14:21.860 It was not where I wanted it to be. Exploring my regrets. What was my environment like? What was I

00:14:30.020 living my daily life like? What was my relationship with my kids, with the blonde, with my grandkids? 0.99

00:14:36.840 So just being aware that things were not what I wanted them to be and they were not good.

00:14:43.440 So the second thing I remember at some point along the way, making a choice that I needed to do

00:14:49.740 something different. At the time, I did not know what to do. Not a clue. But making that choice and

00:14:57.440 talking to Duder about this, saying, okay, Duder, we're going to do something different. And I made

00:15:02.420 that conscious choice. And then I really started to explore my why. Why do I want to do this? Why do I

00:15:10.380 need to change my life? So those three things were very critical. And this happened over about a year,

00:15:16.460 from 50 to 51, of going for these daily walks. Well, I think that's interesting because I think

00:15:21.700 a lot of guys, when they experience that midlife, you can call it crisis, like they recognize they're

00:15:26.660 in a midlife funk, they expect the change to happen right away. And I think that's some very

00:15:31.860 male, you know, you want to solve the problem and we want to solve it now. But something like this of 0.55

00:15:38.100 like, what's my why? And what am I supposed to do now that I've raised my kids and they're out of the

00:15:43.140 house and I'm getting towards the end of my career? You can't solve that in a week. It's going

00:15:48.200 to take a year, maybe. Sometimes it might take more than a year. And I just continue to think

00:15:54.780 about it as one step at a time. It truly is one step at a time. Well, you talk about, you would

00:16:00.400 actually talk to Duder on these walks. Did you ever feel like, man, if someone saw me talking to a dog,

00:16:07.020 they're going to think I'm a weirdo? Or did you just like lose all self-consciousness when you're out

00:16:12.040 there taking a walk with your dog? No, I didn't care who was around or anything. It was just Duder

00:16:17.340 and I, just the guy and his dog out walking. And I would absolutely talk to him. And there's a benefit

00:16:23.440 to instead of talking to yourself just in your head, verbally speak those words out loud, get them

00:16:30.200 out of your head. And I would talk to Duder. I would talk about how, what I was feeling, what was going on

00:16:36.680 that day? I would ask him, Duder, what would you do about this? Okay, Duder, I'm thinking about doing

00:16:42.440 this thing. What do you think about that? And I wouldn't have these conversations with him. And

00:16:46.780 oh man, he's a great listener. He was awesome. Yeah. You talk about how Duder, you know, you

00:16:51.100 attribute him to helping you break out of the negative self-talk. That was like a habit you slipped

00:16:56.460 into in midlife. I think a lot of guys slip into that. So, well, I'm good for nothing. I haven't

00:17:01.140 reached all the goals I wanted. I'm already 45. There's no way I can change. And you talk about

00:17:06.680 talking to Duder helped you get rid of that negative self-talk. It did. Absolutely did.

00:17:12.860 And then that translated over into, okay, I'm having these conversations with Duder. I should

00:17:18.360 probably have some of these same conversations with my wife. I should probably have some of these

00:17:23.360 same conversations with my kids. And that opened their eyes a little bit that, hey, wait a minute.

00:17:30.540 Jeff is changing a little bit. I've never had this kind of a conversation with him before.

00:17:35.320 So that they were watching me start to change my mindset. My mindset was changing here. I was

00:17:42.180 thinking about things a little bit differently. And during that year, it really started to get me

00:17:48.500 into a do phase. Okay. What can I start doing now? And there were a couple of things that really

00:17:54.740 impacted this. The first one was I canceled my TV subscription. I mean, I had direct TV. I was

00:18:01.240 watching sports every night. I was watching all kinds of stuff. And that was just the norm. Sit on

00:18:05.420 a couch and watch TV every night. I canceled the TV subscription. And I just realized that there's

00:18:13.200 not a whole lot of value in TV for me. Then I changed my inputs. So instead of watching TV, I started

00:18:19.780 reading books. I started listening to podcasts. I discovered this cool podcast early on in my journey

00:18:26.700 called The Art of Manliness. And I started listening to it. And there was some great content on there.

00:18:32.780 And I subscribed, Brett, to your daily email newsletter. So your content still comes into my

00:18:40.540 life on a daily basis. It's part of my inputs. Well, thank you so much. That means a lot.

00:18:45.200 That idea of changing your inputs and bringing new things in here then just slowly started to

00:18:52.220 impact other things. What am I eating? What am I thinking about on a daily basis? What's my sleep

00:19:00.200 patterns? When should I wake up? I was essentially looking at ways to change my lifestyle. And so when I

00:19:09.700 started just changing some of these lifestyle aspects, as a side effect, I lost 70 pounds. I was feeling

00:19:18.000 better. My view of the world changed. It's almost like I didn't go into this to lose weight. I went

00:19:26.780 into this to change my life and my lifestyle. And as a result, as a side effect, yeah, you're eating

00:19:34.040 better. You're doing more. You're thinking better. And so as a side effect, I lost 70 pounds.

00:19:39.000 I think there's a lot of that. You can see that sort of thing in a lot of life. Sometimes we set a goal

00:19:44.760 to do X and we do things to do X, right? I want to do this thing to be happy. But doing those things

00:19:50.940 actually doesn't make you happy because you actually become miserable because you're so focused on the

00:19:56.740 task. It's like, if I don't do this thing right, then I'm not going to be happy. And that makes you

00:20:01.560 unhappy. And what philosophers and psychologists have found is that you can't will yourself to be

00:20:07.220 happy. Happiness is a side effect of doing good things. And it looks like that's what you

00:20:13.040 discovered. Absolutely. Happiness is an interesting topic there. I think part of my happiness is just

00:20:20.840 peacefulness. I can now look in the mirror and like who I see. Whereas in the past, when I looked in the

00:20:29.520 mirror, I did not like that guy I was looking at. And that gives me some peace of mind, which then

00:20:35.180 feels like happiness. We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.

00:20:44.800 And now back to the show. So you started with Duder taking the walks at age 50. For about a year,

00:20:51.140 there's a lot of introspection, talking to Duder, sort of figuring things out what you want to do next.

00:20:56.220 And then you started taking action. And one of those things you started doing besides changing your

00:21:01.040 lifestyle, like sleeping better, changing your inputs, things like that, you actually started

00:21:06.360 running. And not only like recreational, like 5K, you started doing marathons. So how did Duder

00:21:13.440 help you get into running? Well, a couple of ways. I'm going to back up a little bit. As I was going

00:21:19.800 through this, changing my lifestyle, talking to Duder, I began looking for lessons, life lessons,

00:21:28.900 I call them. Let's, let's look for things. So I was watching Duder's behaviors and learning things

00:21:36.000 from them. And there's a couple of lessons that I learned. One of them was that I would take Duder

00:21:41.800 out for a walk and we would actually hop in the truck and we'd head over to a trail. So we started

00:21:46.860 going out on the trails. And when we'd start hiking, I would have to have him on a leash. At some point

00:21:53.840 there was, you know, nobody around. So I would take him off the leash and I'd unhook the leash

00:21:59.960 and Duder would just take off running as fast as he could go. And it was fun to watch. And then I

00:22:06.540 would just observe that. And I got thinking to myself, okay, 50 years, what are the leashes I had

00:22:12.700 on myself? What's holding me back from doing some of these things that I wanted to do? And I really

00:22:19.660 started to explore that. You have 50 years of people telling you what you cannot do. 50 years

00:22:25.980 of TV telling you what you cannot do. And these felt like these leashes. So I started to take,

00:22:31.780 take them off in my mind. Okay. What can I do? Then I remembered distinctly one day we're out for a

00:22:38.420 hike and I just started running for whatever reason. I don't even know why I just started running.

00:22:44.700 I'm thinking, okay, well I'm, I'm walking. I've kind of mastered this walking thing. I've lost a

00:22:49.840 lot of my weight. My lifestyle's changed here. Let's just run a little bit. And I remember running

00:22:54.680 for maybe a hundred, 200 yards before I ran out of breath. That's how it started. Just that 200

00:23:02.640 yard run. And it, it kind of planted this seed in me that, okay, this is kind of cool. Well, how,

00:23:10.080 how far can I go with this? But the walking and the daily walk, which now turned into daily runs

00:23:16.340 just became so symbolic for me of everything else that I wanted to do. So I'm thinking, okay,

00:23:22.100 if I can run 200 yards, then can I run a mile? And I remember running two miles. That was one of the

00:23:28.420 hardest things I did was to run two miles without stopping. But it felt good that I was accomplishing

00:23:34.880 things. And then it opened my mind up. What else can I do? Maybe I could write a book. You know,

00:23:39.680 that's kind of how the book got started. If you would have talked to Brett, if you would have

00:23:44.520 talked to 49 year old me and said, Hey, uh, in five years, you're going to publish a book,

00:23:49.780 you're going to run marathons and you're going to be on podcasts. You know, that 49 year old would

00:23:56.000 have said, what are you talking about? There's no way that's going to happen. So that's how the

00:24:00.620 running started. And then it became so symbolic. I signed up for a half marathon and I ran a half

00:24:07.180 marathon and I signed up for another one and I just kept running these half marathons.

00:24:11.800 And then I guess thinking, okay, what else can I do? And so then I said, well, maybe I could run a

00:24:16.660 marathon. So I signed up for a marathon and I've run, you know, six or seven marathons so far.

00:24:20.920 And well, okay, I've done that. What else can I do? So I've signed up for a couple of ultra marathons.

00:24:27.740 I've done a 55 K and a 60 K and these are both trail races. And actually in eight days, Brett,

00:24:34.020 I am running a 50 miler, 50 mile trail race with about 11,000 feet of vertical climb that's coming

00:24:40.560 up in eight days. So that's how my running journey started and started with that a hundred, a hundred

00:24:46.380 yards. And now I'm doing a 50 mile trail race. 50 miles. Okay. And that's in just, you started this

00:24:52.480 when you were 51 and how old are you now? I am 55. 50. So in four years. Yep. That's not that long.

00:25:00.100 Like in the grand scheme of things, if you think about it, cause I think sometimes when we think

00:25:03.720 about change, we think, oh man, a year is so long. I need change now. But I mean, you, you've done a

00:25:10.960 lot in that four years when you decided I'm going to start making my life better.

00:25:16.480 Well, thanks. It feels like that. And I also feel like I'm just getting started. It's almost like,

00:25:23.900 okay. The first 50 years of my life was just a test. It was a little trial, but here I am now,

00:25:31.540 a new person feeling very different about life, very hopeful. How far can I go with this? And I'm

00:25:39.680 just going to keep going. I am just cruising right now. That's what it feels like.

00:25:44.260 So you mentioned that Duder pretty much helped save your marriage because before you got him,

00:25:50.460 your wife was thinking about divorcing you, what changed in your marriage after you got Duder?

00:25:56.020 Well, one was just awareness, right? So it starts with that awareness. And that was one of the things

00:26:00.860 that when you start thinking about your regrets, your regrets with your wife or your partner can be

00:26:09.440 very traumatic. And they were for me. I had a lot of regrets of how I treated her and some of the

00:26:18.420 things in my past and all of that. So just being aware that of, okay, what's going on here?

00:26:26.520 One of the first podcasts, I think the very first episode of a podcast that I listened to,

00:26:32.480 I didn't even know what a podcast was before all this started, was Jocko Willink. And then I ended up

00:26:38.420 reading his book, Extreme Ownership. And it really hammered it home to me, this idea of self-ownership.

00:26:45.060 So when I started looking at my relationship with the blonde, I really had to focus on my role. 0.99

00:26:52.220 What am I doing? What should I be doing? How should I do things differently to make this

00:26:59.580 relationship better? So I had to own my side of it. And just walking with Duder and talking to Duder

00:27:06.140 about this just became very beneficial for me so that then I could come back and have those

00:27:11.580 conversations with the blonde as well. One thing I've seen or I've heard other podcast guests talk

00:27:18.040 about when it comes to relationships, one thing that a lot of, I'm not, I can't get to speaking

00:27:24.000 generalities here, but what a lot of women are looking for in their husband, they don't necessarily 1.00

00:27:29.540 care that, you know, that if he's a millionaire or he's got six pack abs or whatever, they just want

00:27:35.340 to see their husband have some sort of ambition or drive to, to do something right. And, and not

00:27:42.800 wallow in the self-pity and I can't change. Like that's not attractive. Women are looking for a guy 1.00

00:27:49.400 who's hopeful and say, Hey, we're going to make the best of what we got here. And it sounds like

00:27:54.660 Duder, Duder helped you do that. Oh, absolutely. And it was subtle, but she started to see the

00:28:02.680 changes in me in the way that I would talk to her in my actions, having heart to heart conversations

00:28:09.780 with her about what I was feeling that day and what my dreams were. And here's what I'm aspiring to do.

00:28:17.280 And that really helped her. And so she, at some point decided not to divorce me because she was

00:28:24.860 ready to divorce me because I was that guy you just described Brett with no, no dreams, just sitting

00:28:30.700 on a couch every night. So how did Duder help you become a better dad? Well, the, the, the same kind

00:28:36.840 of a thing is that I had regrets about my kids. They were all out of the house and looking back when

00:28:44.620 you're 50, what kind of a dad was I? Did I teach them everything that they needed to know? Was I a

00:28:50.600 good example for them? All of those regrets were top of mind. So at the same time, when I made the

00:28:56.940 choice to repair and work on the relationship with my wife, I wanted to work on the relationship with

00:29:04.660 my kids. And there was a couple of things that really hit home with me is this idea of what is my

00:29:12.320 legacy? What is my legacy going to be with my kids? How do I want my kids to remember me?

00:29:21.280 And that was very powerful for me. And there's always two ways to maybe react to that feeling.

00:29:29.200 One might be, okay, well, I'm going to go have conversations with my kids and I'm going to tell

00:29:34.160 them what life should be and they're going to learn from me. But what I realized is what they're going to

00:29:38.860 remember from me most is not what I say. They're going to remember what I do. So I want my kids to

00:29:45.640 see me changing my life, losing weight, getting off of the couch, running marathons, and incorporating

00:29:53.160 all of these ideas in my head. And I'm hoping that that's going to be my legacy with my kids is they're

00:29:59.060 seeing me do these things and hopefully it's inspiring them. So the legacy part of it was very,

00:30:05.160 very powerful. Well, and it sounds like that's already happening. You talk about one of your

00:30:09.520 daughters started running because of you. She did. She's run several half marathons. She completed

00:30:17.180 actually in the Marine Corps marathons. She set a goal in her life to run 50 half marathons in all 50

00:30:24.500 states. So I've had an impact just by her watching me change my life and start doing these things.

00:30:31.400 And she's, you know, trying to do some things in her life as well. So that means a lot to me that

00:30:37.940 that goes a long way. And then also my kids, I also want, I have four grandkids. How do I want my

00:30:46.060 grandkids to remember me? And a lot of them are still young little kids, but I want them to have

00:30:50.920 a memory of, of grandpa doing things. That's, that's what I want my legacy to be.

00:30:56.940 Yeah. Not the old grandpa who's just sits on the couch, not doing anything.

00:31:02.580 Was there a moment in this transformation? So we were four years into this transformation. Was

00:31:07.860 there a moment when you realized like I I've changed because again, the changes it's subtle,

00:31:14.560 it's gradual. And everyone has that moment where you realize, man, I'm different. Was there a specific

00:31:19.320 moment in this four years where you realize that I've gotten out of this slump?

00:31:24.480 There's, there's probably a couple. One is the physical side of it. After I lost 70 pounds,

00:31:29.100 that was a moment. Okay. I have changed myself. I look very different. I feel very different. So

00:31:36.060 that was a moment of, yes, I, I have made a transformation, but even more important than that

00:31:42.660 was just what was going on in my head. I had a very different view of the world. And maybe I can

00:31:50.660 tell another story from the book. At one point, Duder and I are out walking on a trail and this

00:31:57.100 trail had a bunch of grass along it, some trees. And I realized that I'm standing way up here,

00:32:03.800 walking and Duder's way down here on the trail. And I literally got down on the trail and started

00:32:09.600 crawling because I wanted to see what the trail looked like from Duder's perspective. And it was

00:32:14.780 very different down there. And what I realized in the lesson from that is that what was my view of

00:32:20.680 the world? When I looked at life in general, when I looked at the people around me, when I looked at

00:32:27.600 what my job was, what was my perspective? Was it one of just pure negative or was it one of positive?

00:32:35.280 So I really had to change my view of things. And so there was a moment where a typical event would

00:32:44.380 happen in my life. And in the past I would react very negatively, get angry. And I realized that

00:32:51.060 that didn't happen to me anymore. The same event could happen to me and I could just kind of smile

00:32:56.920 and shrug it off. It wouldn't affect me the same. So that was another one of those moments that,

00:33:01.140 okay, I kind of have gone through a transformation. My mind is thinking differently.

00:33:07.520 Do you sometimes struggle with sliding back into old habits and mindsets or does Duder help keep

00:33:12.480 you on track? I don't think you ever reach a point where you have transformed and everything's good

00:33:20.580 and you don't have to work at it anymore. Old habits, old mindsets, yeah, they're always there

00:33:27.400 and they try to creep back. So my book is called Dude and Duder. So the new guy is dude. Dude's the

00:33:34.340 guy that's doing all of this work. And the old guy is this guy named Jeff. And so sometimes Jeff

00:33:39.720 tries to creep back in there. Typically it's when something stressful happens and there's some anxiety

00:33:45.820 going on. And then the old habits just kind of come back in. You want to get back into your comfort

00:33:51.940 zone. I, I, I don't even like to talk about it as a struggle to keep going. It's just a daily

00:33:59.480 challenge. And I've embraced this idea of every day should be a challenge. Challenge is what keeps

00:34:06.740 me going. That's why I go for a run every day because it's challenging and I love to do it. And I,

00:34:12.840 I've kind of developed this growth mindset of continually challenging myself daily to continue to learn,

00:34:22.240 grow and change. I'm never going to reach an end of this transformation. I don't think there's a

00:34:28.060 stopping point. You have to, you know, life is about the journey, the old adage there. It truly is.

00:34:34.360 And I've embraced that. I see the end of a race all the time and I cross the finish line,

00:34:39.040 but I'm not done because there's always another race. Let's say there's a guy listening to this.

00:34:43.580 He's in midlife. He's thought about getting a dog every time, you know, he'll see a family with a dog.

00:34:49.280 That would be nice. But then he's like, well, I don't want to do that. What would you tell this

00:34:53.360 guy? Get one. Absolutely get a dog. Brett, do you have any dogs? I don't have a dog and our kids

00:35:02.400 have been bugging us to get one, but I, we haven't pulled the trigger on it. Well, yeah, no, you,

00:35:08.420 this, it makes me every time I read, when I read your book and I saw pictures of dude, I was like,

00:35:12.560 that'd be really nice to get a dog. I'm really allergic to dogs. I actually got really close

00:35:16.820 to pulling the trigger on it a few Christmases ago. And I said, let me, cause whenever I'm around

00:35:22.780 certain breeds of dogs, I get really sneezy eyes, red watery. So I got an allergy test and I was

00:35:28.380 really allergic to dogs. So I'm still open to it. Even though you're allergic, even though I'm

00:35:36.040 allergic, that's good. But yes, I would recommend getting a dog and if for nothing else, take them

00:35:42.120 for a daily walk, get yourself out there and go for a walk. So I specifically got a Vichla and I

00:35:50.520 described that story, why we did that. And so there are different trends and different breeds out there

00:35:56.920 and you can research which type of breed would be best for, for you, where you live and so forth.

00:36:02.880 One of my daughters has two dogs and they're both sheltered dogs. So I would also can have you,

00:36:09.000 have you look at, at sheltered dogs. There are a lot of dogs out there that do not have homes and

00:36:13.980 they're looking for homes. And these are typically mutts, not, not pure breeds, but man, they still

00:36:19.520 can make good dogs. So yes, get a dog. Everyone should have a dog. And it could help you make that

00:36:26.600 midlife transformation like Duder did for you. Absolutely could. Well, Jeff, this has been a great

00:36:31.380 conversation. Where can people go to learn more about your book and more importantly, Duder?

00:36:36.560 I'm out on social media and probably the best way to find us is at our website, dudeandduder.com.

00:36:43.940 And we have a Duder's Challenge weekly email. So if you want to sign up for Duder's Challenge,

00:36:50.860 he'll send you a weekly email with a challenge of what you can do that week.

00:36:54.740 I love it. And then follow us on social media. Yep.

00:36:57.580 Duder and Duder. Yeah. When you sent me the book, you had Duder's paw print in there,

00:37:01.140 which I appreciate. So glad he's there. He's a star. He's a social media celebrity. You guys got

00:37:06.940 quite a following and he's pretty dapper. You got a picture of him like in a bow tie. So it's a great.

00:37:12.820 He's a great companion. He's my buddy.

00:37:14.980 Fantastic. Well, Jeff Goodrich, thanks for time. It's been a pleasure.

00:37:18.120 Thanks, Brett.

00:37:19.580 My guest today was Jeff Goodrich. He's the author of the book Dude and Duder. It's available on

00:37:23.480 amazon.com. You can find more information about his work at his website, dudeandduder.com.

00:37:28.540 Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash dog. We find links to resources. We delve deeper into

00:37:33.420 this topic. Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast. Make sure to check out our

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00:37:50.420 we've written over the years about pretty much anything you think of.

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00:38:08.440 Life at strenuouslife.co. The Strenuous Life is an online program that we developed to help

00:38:13.020 you put into action all the things we've written about on artofmanliness.com and talked about

00:38:17.160 on the podcast for the past 15 years. We've done that in a few ways. First, we created a badge system

00:38:22.280 based around 50 different skills. There's hard skills like wilderness survival, soft skills

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00:38:36.300 confidence, and enjoyment in life. So we get the badges. We also provide weekly challenges.

00:38:40.240 We call them agons. It's a Greek for challenge or competition. The agons are designed to push 1.00

00:38:45.280 you out of your comfort zone. Each agon is going to encourage you to break out of your routine

00:38:49.220 and do something a little different from what you usually do. And along the way,

00:38:53.040 you'll hopefully pick up some new habits, learn new skills, and further your development in body,

00:38:57.300 mind, and spirit. We also provide check-ins for physical activity. You've got to get 60 minutes

00:39:01.440 of physical activity each day. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be a ruck. It could be a body

00:39:05.000 weight workout. It could be a barbell training session. We just want you to move your body 0.74

00:39:08.720 strenuously 60 minutes a day. And then we also provide check-ins for doing a good deed. We want

00:39:13.560 the whole purpose of Strenuous Life and increasing our competence and getting stronger

00:39:17.460 so we can be useful and serve the wider world. And the Strenuous Life has geographic groups all

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00:39:27.700 They're working on badges. They're doing meetups. So check it out. Our next enrollment for the

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00:39:43.140 this January. I hope to see you there. Check it out, strenuouslife.co. And until next time,

00:39:48.860 this is Brett McKay reminding you to not only listen to A1 Podcast, but put what you've heard

00:39:53.780 into action.

The Art of Manliness - October 16, 2023

Dog as Cure for the Midlife Malaise

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