The Art of Manliness - July 31, 2025


Dog as Cure for the Midlife Malaise


Episode Stats

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

6


Summary

Jeff Goodrich shares what his life was like at age 49 before getting Duder the dog, and how Duder sparked changes that helped him lose 70 pounds, repair his relationships, and find real happiness. Along the way, we talk about advice that can apply to anyone trying to get out of a midlife slump, even if you don t own a dog.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
00:00:11.660 Maybe you're in a midlife slump. Maybe you're unhappy in your job and marriage. Maybe you're
00:00:16.940 inactive and overweight. Maybe you've tried to change your life before, but can't seem to make
00:00:21.520 the changes stick. What do you need to do to finally turn things around? My guess would say
00:00:27.000 that the answer might be getting a dog. Jeff Goodrich is the author of Dude and Duder,
00:00:32.640 How My Dog Saved My Life. Today on the show, Jeff shares what his life was like at age 49 before
00:00:38.520 getting Duder the dog and how Duder sparked changes that helped him lose 70 pounds,
00:00:43.220 repair his relationships, and find real happiness. Along the way, we talk about advice that can apply
00:00:49.180 to anyone trying to get out of the midlife slump, even if you don't own a dog. Although Jeff would
00:00:53.940 say, you really should get one. After the show's over, check out our show notes at awim.is slash dog.
00:01:11.580 All right, Jeff Goodrich, welcome to the show. Thanks, Brett, for having me on.
00:01:15.620 So you wrote a book called Dude and Duder, How My Dog Saved My Life. And in this book,
00:01:21.860 you take readers through a midlife transformation that was kickstarted after your family got a
00:01:28.720 vizala. Is that how you pronounce it? Vizala. Vizala, a vizala that you named Duder. But before
00:01:34.780 we get to how Duder changed your life, let's talk about what your life was like before you got him.
00:01:40.180 Because I know there's a lot of our listeners probably are going through something that you
00:01:43.580 went through at midlife during their 40s, 50s, and they're feeling that slump. So what was your
00:01:49.860 midlife slump like? Great question. When we first brought Duder home with us, I was 49 years old
00:01:57.380 at the time. And there was a lot of things going on in my life. Physically, I was overweight. I was
00:02:04.280 lazy. I did not feel healthy. I just plain had a hard time rolling out of bed every day. Mentally,
00:02:11.840 I was basically depressed, did not have a whole lot of hope for the future at all. You know,
00:02:18.300 we always try to put on that good face. But under the covers, I was just coasting along and it felt
00:02:24.900 like I was just trying to get to the end of the day. How do I do this? My relationship, I've been
00:02:30.180 married for a very long time and I refer to my wife as the blonde. And my marriage to the blonde was
00:02:36.280 very, very rocky. And I had learned later on that she was actually putting some plans in place to
00:02:41.440 divorce me. The two of us, you know, we were married at 18 years old. So we've been married a
00:02:47.080 long time. So things were just plain not good. I was just coasting along in life and just feeling
00:02:55.200 crappy about life. Was there a moment that you, you know, a specific moment you realized
00:03:01.440 you weren't happy with where life was going for you? It's one of those things, midlife is like,
00:03:06.720 aging is hard because it's, it's so subtle and gradual that you don't really notice until
00:03:13.180 there's always some moment you're like, Oh boy, like things aren't good. Was there a moment for you?
00:03:19.880 Well, there, there was a, yeah, there was a very specific moment, but up until that time,
00:03:25.240 I mean, I had spent 15, maybe even 16 years living my life in this state. And I had during that time,
00:03:32.660 I had a lot of moments of, Oh, okay. I need to do something different. I didn't lose some weight.
00:03:37.380 I think I even went and joined a gym a couple of times and I made promises to the blonde. Okay. I'm
00:03:42.900 going to do, I'm going to be better. I'm going to do this different and made some promises to myself.
00:03:47.460 So I had a lot of, of moments like that, but then I turned 50 and that moment really, really
00:03:55.820 triggered some stuff. And everyone's been there that, you know, you turn 30, it's a trigger. You turn 40,
00:04:01.340 you turn 50. And that really, really was a triggering moment was just that 50. And then
00:04:07.880 looking back on my life and it really brought up all this ideas of the regrets in life and all of
00:04:13.900 that. So that was a very triggering moment. And then you also talk about in the book, I mean,
00:04:18.520 one of the biggest challenges that you had to overcome is in the 15 years leading up to turning
00:04:23.600 50, you had those moments where like, Oh man, I need to lose weight or, Oh man, my relationship needs
00:04:27.400 to be better. I need to invest more in that. And then you try and make those attempts and then
00:04:32.520 you'd backslide. And you talk about how you developed a sort of learned helplessness. You
00:04:37.320 became hopeless. That was like the biggest thing that you just felt hopeless. Like it's too late for
00:04:40.700 me to change. And I think a lot of men at that age can recognize that as well, or are familiar with
00:04:47.840 that and can relate. Absolutely. I had these moments of, okay, I need to do something different,
00:04:53.440 but nothing ever stuck. I couldn't, I didn't have the discipline. I didn't, for whatever reason.
00:04:59.520 And there's many, many reasons why that is. Some of it might be that I was just eating unhealthy.
00:05:06.120 And so my brain and body just were not operating efficiently. But looking back in hindsight,
00:05:13.440 what in the past, I didn't really understand why I should do this. I just had this idea,
00:05:20.660 I need to lose weight, but I didn't have and fully develop my why. Why should I do this? What's my
00:05:27.600 reason? And so this next time around, when I hit 50, that really became important. Figure that out
00:05:35.160 and refer to it daily. Why am I doing this? And that helped keep me going.
00:05:41.740 Yeah. I think that's one of the hardest challenges of midlife is figuring out your why.
00:05:46.080 Or this reminds me, this is like a city slickers, right? You seen that city slickers?
00:05:51.540 Yes. Oh yeah.
00:05:52.380 Right. Where the guy, he talks about, you got to find your one thing, your one thing.
00:05:57.820 Because I think when you're young, you're in your twenties, there's always a goal there for you.
00:06:03.420 That's already set in place. Well, I got to go to college so I can get the job. And then I got to
00:06:07.720 get the job so I can have a family and I got to work hard so we can buy a house. And then you reach
00:06:12.640 midlife and those predetermined goals aren't there for you. And so you have to figure out,
00:06:19.200 well, why am I going to do this stuff now? And that's, that's hard.
00:06:24.140 And so when I hit 50, you know, you start looking back, you start having regrets and you look back
00:06:29.080 at your life. And I realized that I was living my life according to what everyone else was telling me
00:06:36.840 how I should live it from what I was watching on TV, family, the news, social media, all of this.
00:06:44.960 That's how I'm supposed to live my life. So at some point along in the process here,
00:06:49.180 I switched that to, I need to find my own why and live my own life. This is mine. I'm going to
00:06:56.500 live it according to what I want to do. That was critical too.
00:07:00.900 And this is where Duder comes in. So you were 49 when you got Duder, correct?
00:07:04.920 Yep. Did your family have dogs before, before, and were you a dog family?
00:07:11.320 Growing up when I was a kid, we did not have any dogs. So I did not have dogs when I was a kid.
00:07:17.780 Early on in our marriage, we had a couple of dogs just for like two or three years. We had a boxer
00:07:24.000 and then we had a sheltered dog in our house for maybe less than a year, but that was it.
00:07:29.660 So we were not necessarily a dog. We just never grew up with dogs. So.
00:07:33.740 So what prompted you to get a dog?
00:07:35.540 It might've been like the kids were out of the house. Maybe I'm feeling lonely. It's just my
00:07:41.380 wife and I here in this house. It's pretty empty. Maybe we need something else. Maybe we need another
00:07:47.380 kid. That's kind of what it felt like. And talked to my wife into it. And she, you know, she agreed
00:07:54.780 as long as I was the one that took care of him and cleaned up the poop and did all of that,
00:07:58.840 but she agreed to it. So that's kind of how it started.
00:08:02.240 And why did you settle on the breed that you picked?
00:08:04.460 We specifically found a litter and I wanted to get a Vichla and Vichlas are bred as hunting dogs.
00:08:13.140 So they're kind of a bird dog, but there is a specific story of why I got a Vichla, why we wanted
00:08:19.440 this breed. Part of my background in my life is I've had a history of seizures and I've never been
00:08:28.000 able to figure out what the cause of that was. And I remember one particular time, many years ago,
00:08:34.780 we went over to a friend's house and they had a Vichla and his name was Bear. And I remember walking
00:08:41.540 in the door one day and this dog would not leave me alone. He was all over me, sniffing me. I went
00:08:49.520 and sat down. He went over and sat down next to me. I got up to go to the bathroom. He would follow
00:08:54.420 me everywhere. He was just obsessed with me for some reason. And it turned out that I was feeling
00:09:01.840 some of these seizures coming on. And somehow this dog was able to sense that. And I got up at one
00:09:09.540 point and went into the bathroom at my friend's house and had a seizure. And this dog, Bear,
00:09:15.200 started barking and clawing at the door because he knew something was wrong. And so my friends were
00:09:22.560 able to come get me out of the bathroom and take care of the situation. And I do remember thinking
00:09:27.520 that, okay, if I ever did get a dog in my life, I wanted to get a Vichla because this Vichla saved my
00:09:33.060 life. Are Vichlas known for being able to recognize seizures in individuals?
00:09:39.540 I think they are. There's actually a lot of different dogs that are called seizure dogs
00:09:45.480 and they are specifically trained and they can sense. I don't think we really know exactly how
00:09:52.220 they do it. It's either through maybe a scent that people that having seizures have so they can smell
00:10:00.360 them or they can notice them, but they can be trained to do things. Like if someone has a seizure
00:10:06.000 coming on, purposely climb under them. So if they fall down, they land on the dog instead,
00:10:12.380 they can be trained to go push the button to alert emergency. And so they can be trained as seizure
00:10:19.360 dogs. Have you had problems with seizures in a while or is it, have they gone away?
00:10:23.760 It's been a while. Every once in a while, I'll feel some remnants of it. But as far as like having a
00:10:31.940 full grand mal seizure, it's been many years since I've had one. It feels like I've kind of outgrown
00:10:36.300 them. And specifically in the last five years, since I've really changed things like my diet and my
00:10:42.080 exercise, I think that played a huge role in that as well.
00:10:45.440 Yeah. So the Vichla, it's a really handsome, beautiful dog. I mean, it looks like a bird dog.
00:10:50.420 Are they energetic? Do they require a lot of exercise?
00:10:54.520 Oh, yes, absolutely. He is, he's crazy energetic. I have taken him on some seriously long runs
00:11:04.600 and a couple of backpacking trips where we climbed up to King's Peak, which is the highest peak in
00:11:10.200 Utah. And he went all the way to the top with me and that's a 25 to 30 mile backpacking trip. And
00:11:15.900 he does great. They are very, very active dogs. In fact, they even list them as like third or fourth
00:11:22.900 fastest dogs in the world. So they're pretty fast as well.
00:11:26.700 So let's talk about how Duder, you got Duder when you're 49. He started to subtly kickstart your
00:11:34.120 midlife transformation. What happened when you first got him where you started making steps
00:11:39.540 unintentionally to start making changes in your life?
00:11:42.660 So here's how I like to tell the story. We bring Duder into my life. And of course,
00:11:47.980 what do you do? You take your dog for a walk. So I remember one day taking Duder out for a walk,
00:11:52.480 putting the leash on him. And we went out for this walk just the first time that we had him.
00:11:59.860 And I like to tell the story that, oh, I'm out on this walk. And I had this
00:12:03.720 grand vision of what my life should be. And, oh, I'm going to change this. And, oh,
00:12:09.280 I'm going to improve my relationship. And, oh, I'm going to lose weight and all of this. But
00:12:13.980 that's just not the way things happen. I think what happened was Duder went over to the next
00:12:19.260 door neighbor and took a crap in his yard. And so I had to go clean up his poop. And then we come back.
00:12:25.140 But what did happen, Brett, was that the next day we did it again. And then the next day we did it
00:12:31.920 again. So this subtle thing of a new habit being part of my life, just going for this daily walk
00:12:40.540 was key. And I wouldn't take the phone with me. It was just Duder and I going out for a walk,
00:12:46.520 something different. And during this time is where I was able to really spend a lot of time with
00:12:52.020 myself. Then I hit 50. Then I started looking at my regrets in life and started to really evaluate
00:12:58.400 my life and where I was. But these moments do not happen when you're sitting on the couch watching
00:13:04.880 TV. So it was key that we were outside physically moving, doing a daily walk. That's truly how it
00:13:13.420 started right there. And it continues to this day. Yeah. That idea, there's an idea from,
00:13:19.240 it goes back to like ancient Rome, solvitar ambulando, which is Latin for, it is solved by walking.
00:13:26.980 A lot of problems can get solved by walking. In fact, a lot of philosophers,
00:13:32.400 Nietzsche, Aristotle. I mean, Aristotle's school was, they were called parapetetics,
00:13:37.360 like because they walked around everywhere discussing philosophy. Henry David Thoreau,
00:13:42.480 they just, they'd walk. And as you're walking, something about it, it does, it changes your
00:13:46.580 thinking. And it sounds like that's what you're doing. So a couple of things are going on. You're
00:13:49.880 going on the walk because of Duder. He needs to go on a walk. So you have to go on a walk.
00:13:53.760 You're getting physically active. And during that time, there's a transformation going on
00:13:59.480 inside your head because you're thinking through a lot of issues.
00:14:03.100 Absolutely. And this is going on for about a year. So from 50 to 51 is when we're really doing these
00:14:10.320 daily walks. And there's three key things. In hindsight is great. Looking back, three very
00:14:15.880 key things happened. One was awareness. I truly became aware of where my life was.
00:14:21.860 It was not where I wanted it to be. Exploring my regrets. What was my environment like? What was I
00:14:30.020 living my daily life like? What was my relationship with my kids, with the blonde, with my grandkids?
00:14:36.840 So just being aware that things were not what I wanted them to be and they were not good.
00:14:43.440 So the second thing I remember at some point along the way, making a choice that I needed to do
00:14:49.740 something different. At the time, I did not know what to do. Not a clue. But making that choice and
00:14:57.440 talking to Duder about this, saying, okay, Duder, we're going to do something different. And I made
00:15:02.420 that conscious choice. And then I really started to explore my why. Why do I want to do this? Why do I
00:15:10.380 need to change my life? So those three things were very critical. And this happened over about a year,
00:15:16.460 from 50 to 51, of going for these daily walks. Well, I think that's interesting because I think
00:15:21.700 a lot of guys, when they experience that midlife, you can call it crisis, like they recognize they're
00:15:26.660 in a midlife funk, they expect the change to happen right away. And I think that's some very
00:15:31.860 male, you know, you want to solve the problem and we want to solve it now. But something like this of
00:15:38.100 like, what's my why? And what am I supposed to do now that I've raised my kids and they're out of the
00:15:43.140 house and I'm getting towards the end of my career? You can't solve that in a week. It's going
00:15:48.200 to take a year, maybe. Sometimes it might take more than a year. And I just continue to think
00:15:54.780 about it as one step at a time. It truly is one step at a time. Well, you talk about, you would
00:16:00.400 actually talk to Duder on these walks. Did you ever feel like, man, if someone saw me talking to a dog,
00:16:07.020 they're going to think I'm a weirdo? Or did you just like lose all self-consciousness when you're out
00:16:12.040 there taking a walk with your dog? No, I didn't care who was around or anything. It was just Duder
00:16:17.340 and I, just the guy and his dog out walking. And I would absolutely talk to him. And there's a benefit
00:16:23.440 to instead of talking to yourself just in your head, verbally speak those words out loud, get them
00:16:30.200 out of your head. And I would talk to Duder. I would talk about how, what I was feeling, what was going on
00:16:36.680 that day? I would ask him, Duder, what would you do about this? Okay, Duder, I'm thinking about doing
00:16:42.440 this thing. What do you think about that? And I wouldn't have these conversations with him. And
00:16:46.780 oh man, he's a great listener. He was awesome. Yeah. You talk about how Duder, you know, you
00:16:51.100 attribute him to helping you break out of the negative self-talk. That was like a habit you slipped
00:16:56.460 into in midlife. I think a lot of guys slip into that. So, well, I'm good for nothing. I haven't
00:17:01.140 reached all the goals I wanted. I'm already 45. There's no way I can change. And you talk about
00:17:06.680 talking to Duder helped you get rid of that negative self-talk. It did. Absolutely did.
00:17:12.860 And then that translated over into, okay, I'm having these conversations with Duder. I should
00:17:18.360 probably have some of these same conversations with my wife. I should probably have some of these
00:17:23.360 same conversations with my kids. And that opened their eyes a little bit that, hey, wait a minute.
00:17:30.540 Jeff is changing a little bit. I've never had this kind of a conversation with him before.
00:17:35.320 So that they were watching me start to change my mindset. My mindset was changing here. I was
00:17:42.180 thinking about things a little bit differently. And during that year, it really started to get me
00:17:48.500 into a do phase. Okay. What can I start doing now? And there were a couple of things that really
00:17:54.740 impacted this. The first one was I canceled my TV subscription. I mean, I had direct TV. I was
00:18:01.240 watching sports every night. I was watching all kinds of stuff. And that was just the norm. Sit on
00:18:05.420 a couch and watch TV every night. I canceled the TV subscription. And I just realized that there's
00:18:13.200 not a whole lot of value in TV for me. Then I changed my inputs. So instead of watching TV, I started
00:18:19.780 reading books. I started listening to podcasts. I discovered this cool podcast early on in my journey
00:18:26.700 called The Art of Manliness. And I started listening to it. And there was some great content on there.
00:18:32.780 And I subscribed, Brett, to your daily email newsletter. So your content still comes into my
00:18:40.540 life on a daily basis. It's part of my inputs. Well, thank you so much. That means a lot.
00:18:45.200 That idea of changing your inputs and bringing new things in here then just slowly started to
00:18:52.220 impact other things. What am I eating? What am I thinking about on a daily basis? What's my sleep
00:19:00.200 patterns? When should I wake up? I was essentially looking at ways to change my lifestyle. And so when I
00:19:09.700 started just changing some of these lifestyle aspects, as a side effect, I lost 70 pounds. I was feeling
00:19:18.000 better. My view of the world changed. It's almost like I didn't go into this to lose weight. I went
00:19:26.780 into this to change my life and my lifestyle. And as a result, as a side effect, yeah, you're eating
00:19:34.040 better. You're doing more. You're thinking better. And so as a side effect, I lost 70 pounds.
00:19:39.000 I think there's a lot of that. You can see that sort of thing in a lot of life. Sometimes we set a goal
00:19:44.760 to do X and we do things to do X, right? I want to do this thing to be happy. But doing those things
00:19:50.940 actually doesn't make you happy because you actually become miserable because you're so focused on the
00:19:56.740 task. It's like, if I don't do this thing right, then I'm not going to be happy. And that makes you
00:20:01.560 unhappy. And what philosophers and psychologists have found is that you can't will yourself to be
00:20:07.220 happy. Happiness is a side effect of doing good things. And it looks like that's what you
00:20:13.040 discovered. Absolutely. Happiness is an interesting topic there. I think part of my happiness is just
00:20:20.840 peacefulness. I can now look in the mirror and like who I see. Whereas in the past, when I looked in the
00:20:29.520 mirror, I did not like that guy I was looking at. And that gives me some peace of mind, which then
00:20:35.180 feels like happiness. We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.
00:20:44.800 And now back to the show. So you started with Duder taking the walks at age 50. For about a year,
00:20:51.140 there's a lot of introspection, talking to Duder, sort of figuring things out what you want to do next.
00:20:56.220 And then you started taking action. And one of those things you started doing besides changing your
00:21:01.040 lifestyle, like sleeping better, changing your inputs, things like that, you actually started
00:21:06.360 running. And not only like recreational, like 5K, you started doing marathons. So how did Duder
00:21:13.440 help you get into running? Well, a couple of ways. I'm going to back up a little bit. As I was going
00:21:19.800 through this, changing my lifestyle, talking to Duder, I began looking for lessons, life lessons,
00:21:28.900 I call them. Let's, let's look for things. So I was watching Duder's behaviors and learning things
00:21:36.000 from them. And there's a couple of lessons that I learned. One of them was that I would take Duder
00:21:41.800 out for a walk and we would actually hop in the truck and we'd head over to a trail. So we started
00:21:46.860 going out on the trails. And when we'd start hiking, I would have to have him on a leash. At some point
00:21:53.840 there was, you know, nobody around. So I would take him off the leash and I'd unhook the leash
00:21:59.960 and Duder would just take off running as fast as he could go. And it was fun to watch. And then I
00:22:06.540 would just observe that. And I got thinking to myself, okay, 50 years, what are the leashes I had
00:22:12.700 on myself? What's holding me back from doing some of these things that I wanted to do? And I really
00:22:19.660 started to explore that. You have 50 years of people telling you what you cannot do. 50 years
00:22:25.980 of TV telling you what you cannot do. And these felt like these leashes. So I started to take,
00:22:31.780 take them off in my mind. Okay. What can I do? Then I remembered distinctly one day we're out for a
00:22:38.420 hike and I just started running for whatever reason. I don't even know why I just started running.
00:22:44.700 I'm thinking, okay, well I'm, I'm walking. I've kind of mastered this walking thing. I've lost a
00:22:49.840 lot of my weight. My lifestyle's changed here. Let's just run a little bit. And I remember running
00:22:54.680 for maybe a hundred, 200 yards before I ran out of breath. That's how it started. Just that 200
00:23:02.640 yard run. And it, it kind of planted this seed in me that, okay, this is kind of cool. Well, how,
00:23:10.080 how far can I go with this? But the walking and the daily walk, which now turned into daily runs
00:23:16.340 just became so symbolic for me of everything else that I wanted to do. So I'm thinking, okay,
00:23:22.100 if I can run 200 yards, then can I run a mile? And I remember running two miles. That was one of the
00:23:28.420 hardest things I did was to run two miles without stopping. But it felt good that I was accomplishing
00:23:34.880 things. And then it opened my mind up. What else can I do? Maybe I could write a book. You know,
00:23:39.680 that's kind of how the book got started. If you would have talked to Brett, if you would have
00:23:44.520 talked to 49 year old me and said, Hey, uh, in five years, you're going to publish a book,
00:23:49.780 you're going to run marathons and you're going to be on podcasts. You know, that 49 year old would
00:23:56.000 have said, what are you talking about? There's no way that's going to happen. So that's how the
00:24:00.620 running started. And then it became so symbolic. I signed up for a half marathon and I ran a half
00:24:07.180 marathon and I signed up for another one and I just kept running these half marathons.
00:24:11.800 And then I guess thinking, okay, what else can I do? And so then I said, well, maybe I could run a
00:24:16.660 marathon. So I signed up for a marathon and I've run, you know, six or seven marathons so far.
00:24:20.920 And well, okay, I've done that. What else can I do? So I've signed up for a couple of ultra marathons.
00:24:27.740 I've done a 55 K and a 60 K and these are both trail races. And actually in eight days, Brett,
00:24:34.020 I am running a 50 miler, 50 mile trail race with about 11,000 feet of vertical climb that's coming
00:24:40.560 up in eight days. So that's how my running journey started and started with that a hundred, a hundred
00:24:46.380 yards. And now I'm doing a 50 mile trail race. 50 miles. Okay. And that's in just, you started this
00:24:52.480 when you were 51 and how old are you now? I am 55. 50. So in four years. Yep. That's not that long.
00:25:00.100 Like in the grand scheme of things, if you think about it, cause I think sometimes when we think
00:25:03.720 about change, we think, oh man, a year is so long. I need change now. But I mean, you, you've done a
00:25:10.960 lot in that four years when you decided I'm going to start making my life better.
00:25:16.480 Well, thanks. It feels like that. And I also feel like I'm just getting started. It's almost like,
00:25:23.900 okay. The first 50 years of my life was just a test. It was a little trial, but here I am now,
00:25:31.540 a new person feeling very different about life, very hopeful. How far can I go with this? And I'm
00:25:39.680 just going to keep going. I am just cruising right now. That's what it feels like.
00:25:44.260 So you mentioned that Duder pretty much helped save your marriage because before you got him,
00:25:50.460 your wife was thinking about divorcing you, what changed in your marriage after you got Duder?
00:25:56.020 Well, one was just awareness, right? So it starts with that awareness. And that was one of the things
00:26:00.860 that when you start thinking about your regrets, your regrets with your wife or your partner can be
00:26:09.440 very traumatic. And they were for me. I had a lot of regrets of how I treated her and some of the
00:26:18.420 things in my past and all of that. So just being aware that of, okay, what's going on here?
00:26:26.520 One of the first podcasts, I think the very first episode of a podcast that I listened to,
00:26:32.480 I didn't even know what a podcast was before all this started, was Jocko Willink. And then I ended up
00:26:38.420 reading his book, Extreme Ownership. And it really hammered it home to me, this idea of self-ownership.
00:26:45.060 So when I started looking at my relationship with the blonde, I really had to focus on my role.
00:26:52.220 What am I doing? What should I be doing? How should I do things differently to make this
00:26:59.580 relationship better? So I had to own my side of it. And just walking with Duder and talking to Duder
00:27:06.140 about this just became very beneficial for me so that then I could come back and have those
00:27:11.580 conversations with the blonde as well. One thing I've seen or I've heard other podcast guests talk
00:27:18.040 about when it comes to relationships, one thing that a lot of, I'm not, I can't get to speaking
00:27:24.000 generalities here, but what a lot of women are looking for in their husband, they don't necessarily
00:27:29.540 care that, you know, that if he's a millionaire or he's got six pack abs or whatever, they just want
00:27:35.340 to see their husband have some sort of ambition or drive to, to do something right. And, and not
00:27:42.800 wallow in the self-pity and I can't change. Like that's not attractive. Women are looking for a guy
00:27:49.400 who's hopeful and say, Hey, we're going to make the best of what we got here. And it sounds like
00:27:54.660 Duder, Duder helped you do that. Oh, absolutely. And it was subtle, but she started to see the
00:28:02.680 changes in me in the way that I would talk to her in my actions, having heart to heart conversations
00:28:09.780 with her about what I was feeling that day and what my dreams were. And here's what I'm aspiring to do.
00:28:17.280 And that really helped her. And so she, at some point decided not to divorce me because she was
00:28:24.860 ready to divorce me because I was that guy you just described Brett with no, no dreams, just sitting
00:28:30.700 on a couch every night. So how did Duder help you become a better dad? Well, the, the, the same kind
00:28:36.840 of a thing is that I had regrets about my kids. They were all out of the house and looking back when
00:28:44.620 you're 50, what kind of a dad was I? Did I teach them everything that they needed to know? Was I a
00:28:50.600 good example for them? All of those regrets were top of mind. So at the same time, when I made the
00:28:56.940 choice to repair and work on the relationship with my wife, I wanted to work on the relationship with
00:29:04.660 my kids. And there was a couple of things that really hit home with me is this idea of what is my
00:29:12.320 legacy? What is my legacy going to be with my kids? How do I want my kids to remember me?
00:29:21.280 And that was very powerful for me. And there's always two ways to maybe react to that feeling.
00:29:29.200 One might be, okay, well, I'm going to go have conversations with my kids and I'm going to tell
00:29:34.160 them what life should be and they're going to learn from me. But what I realized is what they're going to
00:29:38.860 remember from me most is not what I say. They're going to remember what I do. So I want my kids to
00:29:45.640 see me changing my life, losing weight, getting off of the couch, running marathons, and incorporating
00:29:53.160 all of these ideas in my head. And I'm hoping that that's going to be my legacy with my kids is they're
00:29:59.060 seeing me do these things and hopefully it's inspiring them. So the legacy part of it was very,
00:30:05.160 very powerful. Well, and it sounds like that's already happening. You talk about one of your
00:30:09.520 daughters started running because of you. She did. She's run several half marathons. She completed
00:30:17.180 actually in the Marine Corps marathons. She set a goal in her life to run 50 half marathons in all 50
00:30:24.500 states. So I've had an impact just by her watching me change my life and start doing these things.
00:30:31.400 And she's, you know, trying to do some things in her life as well. So that means a lot to me that
00:30:37.940 that goes a long way. And then also my kids, I also want, I have four grandkids. How do I want my
00:30:46.060 grandkids to remember me? And a lot of them are still young little kids, but I want them to have
00:30:50.920 a memory of, of grandpa doing things. That's, that's what I want my legacy to be.
00:30:56.940 Yeah. Not the old grandpa who's just sits on the couch, not doing anything.
00:31:02.580 Was there a moment in this transformation? So we were four years into this transformation. Was
00:31:07.860 there a moment when you realized like I I've changed because again, the changes it's subtle,
00:31:14.560 it's gradual. And everyone has that moment where you realize, man, I'm different. Was there a specific
00:31:19.320 moment in this four years where you realize that I've gotten out of this slump?
00:31:24.480 There's, there's probably a couple. One is the physical side of it. After I lost 70 pounds,
00:31:29.100 that was a moment. Okay. I have changed myself. I look very different. I feel very different. So
00:31:36.060 that was a moment of, yes, I, I have made a transformation, but even more important than that
00:31:42.660 was just what was going on in my head. I had a very different view of the world. And maybe I can
00:31:50.660 tell another story from the book. At one point, Duder and I are out walking on a trail and this
00:31:57.100 trail had a bunch of grass along it, some trees. And I realized that I'm standing way up here,
00:32:03.800 walking and Duder's way down here on the trail. And I literally got down on the trail and started
00:32:09.600 crawling because I wanted to see what the trail looked like from Duder's perspective. And it was
00:32:14.780 very different down there. And what I realized in the lesson from that is that what was my view of
00:32:20.680 the world? When I looked at life in general, when I looked at the people around me, when I looked at
00:32:27.600 what my job was, what was my perspective? Was it one of just pure negative or was it one of positive?
00:32:35.280 So I really had to change my view of things. And so there was a moment where a typical event would
00:32:44.380 happen in my life. And in the past I would react very negatively, get angry. And I realized that
00:32:51.060 that didn't happen to me anymore. The same event could happen to me and I could just kind of smile
00:32:56.920 and shrug it off. It wouldn't affect me the same. So that was another one of those moments that,
00:33:01.140 okay, I kind of have gone through a transformation. My mind is thinking differently.
00:33:07.520 Do you sometimes struggle with sliding back into old habits and mindsets or does Duder help keep
00:33:12.480 you on track? I don't think you ever reach a point where you have transformed and everything's good
00:33:20.580 and you don't have to work at it anymore. Old habits, old mindsets, yeah, they're always there
00:33:27.400 and they try to creep back. So my book is called Dude and Duder. So the new guy is dude. Dude's the
00:33:34.340 guy that's doing all of this work. And the old guy is this guy named Jeff. And so sometimes Jeff
00:33:39.720 tries to creep back in there. Typically it's when something stressful happens and there's some anxiety
00:33:45.820 going on. And then the old habits just kind of come back in. You want to get back into your comfort
00:33:51.940 zone. I, I, I don't even like to talk about it as a struggle to keep going. It's just a daily
00:33:59.480 challenge. And I've embraced this idea of every day should be a challenge. Challenge is what keeps
00:34:06.740 me going. That's why I go for a run every day because it's challenging and I love to do it. And I,
00:34:12.840 I've kind of developed this growth mindset of continually challenging myself daily to continue to learn,
00:34:22.240 grow and change. I'm never going to reach an end of this transformation. I don't think there's a
00:34:28.060 stopping point. You have to, you know, life is about the journey, the old adage there. It truly is.
00:34:34.360 And I've embraced that. I see the end of a race all the time and I cross the finish line,
00:34:39.040 but I'm not done because there's always another race. Let's say there's a guy listening to this.
00:34:43.580 He's in midlife. He's thought about getting a dog every time, you know, he'll see a family with a dog.
00:34:49.280 That would be nice. But then he's like, well, I don't want to do that. What would you tell this
00:34:53.360 guy? Get one. Absolutely get a dog. Brett, do you have any dogs? I don't have a dog and our kids
00:35:02.400 have been bugging us to get one, but I, we haven't pulled the trigger on it. Well, yeah, no, you,
00:35:08.420 this, it makes me every time I read, when I read your book and I saw pictures of dude, I was like,
00:35:12.560 that'd be really nice to get a dog. I'm really allergic to dogs. I actually got really close
00:35:16.820 to pulling the trigger on it a few Christmases ago. And I said, let me, cause whenever I'm around
00:35:22.780 certain breeds of dogs, I get really sneezy eyes, red watery. So I got an allergy test and I was
00:35:28.380 really allergic to dogs. So I'm still open to it. Even though you're allergic, even though I'm
00:35:36.040 allergic, that's good. But yes, I would recommend getting a dog and if for nothing else, take them
00:35:42.120 for a daily walk, get yourself out there and go for a walk. So I specifically got a Vichla and I
00:35:50.520 described that story, why we did that. And so there are different trends and different breeds out there
00:35:56.920 and you can research which type of breed would be best for, for you, where you live and so forth.
00:36:02.880 One of my daughters has two dogs and they're both sheltered dogs. So I would also can have you,
00:36:09.000 have you look at, at sheltered dogs. There are a lot of dogs out there that do not have homes and
00:36:13.980 they're looking for homes. And these are typically mutts, not, not pure breeds, but man, they still
00:36:19.520 can make good dogs. So yes, get a dog. Everyone should have a dog. And it could help you make that
00:36:26.600 midlife transformation like Duder did for you. Absolutely could. Well, Jeff, this has been a great
00:36:31.380 conversation. Where can people go to learn more about your book and more importantly, Duder?
00:36:36.560 I'm out on social media and probably the best way to find us is at our website, dudeandduder.com.
00:36:43.940 And we have a Duder's Challenge weekly email. So if you want to sign up for Duder's Challenge,
00:36:50.860 he'll send you a weekly email with a challenge of what you can do that week.
00:36:54.740 I love it. And then follow us on social media. Yep.
00:36:57.580 Duder and Duder. Yeah. When you sent me the book, you had Duder's paw print in there,
00:37:01.140 which I appreciate. So glad he's there. He's a star. He's a social media celebrity. You guys got
00:37:06.940 quite a following and he's pretty dapper. You got a picture of him like in a bow tie. So it's a great.
00:37:12.820 He's a great companion. He's my buddy.
00:37:14.980 Fantastic. Well, Jeff Goodrich, thanks for time. It's been a pleasure.
00:37:18.120 Thanks, Brett.
00:37:19.580 My guest today was Jeff Goodrich. He's the author of the book Dude and Duder. It's available on
00:37:23.480 amazon.com. You can find more information about his work at his website, dudeandduder.com.
00:37:28.540 Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash dog. We find links to resources. We delve deeper into
00:37:33.420 this topic. Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast. Make sure to check out our
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00:37:50.420 we've written over the years about pretty much anything you think of.
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00:38:08.440 Life at strenuouslife.co. The Strenuous Life is an online program that we developed to help
00:38:13.020 you put into action all the things we've written about on artofmanliness.com and talked about
00:38:17.160 on the podcast for the past 15 years. We've done that in a few ways. First, we created a badge system
00:38:22.280 based around 50 different skills. There's hard skills like wilderness survival, soft skills
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00:38:40.240 We call them agons. It's a Greek for challenge or competition. The agons are designed to push
00:38:45.280 you out of your comfort zone. Each agon is going to encourage you to break out of your routine
00:38:49.220 and do something a little different from what you usually do. And along the way,
00:38:53.040 you'll hopefully pick up some new habits, learn new skills, and further your development in body,
00:38:57.300 mind, and spirit. We also provide check-ins for physical activity. You've got to get 60 minutes
00:39:01.440 of physical activity each day. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be a ruck. It could be a body
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00:39:08.720 strenuously 60 minutes a day. And then we also provide check-ins for doing a good deed. We want
00:39:13.560 the whole purpose of Strenuous Life and increasing our competence and getting stronger
00:39:17.460 so we can be useful and serve the wider world. And the Strenuous Life has geographic groups all
00:39:23.520 across the world. People are getting together in person, doing the Strenuous Life together.
00:39:27.700 They're working on badges. They're doing meetups. So check it out. Our next enrollment for the
00:39:31.980 Strenuous Life is going to be in January, 2024. So go to strenuouslife.co. We have a email waiting
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00:39:43.140 this January. I hope to see you there. Check it out, strenuouslife.co. And until next time,
00:39:48.860 this is Brett McKay reminding you to not only listen to A1 Podcast, but put what you've heard
00:39:53.780 into action.