Carlos Infante is a 30-year-old business manager living in Mexico City. He graduated college in 2006 and is currently looking for a job. In this episode, we talk about what it means to be a man and how he became one.
00:02:13.900Okay, Carlos. When do you feel like you became a man?
00:02:19.000Well, it's pretty complicated because sometimes I don't feel like a man because I'm not treated
00:02:25.760like one at home. Unlike a lot of Americans, you know, that leave home after college or get
00:02:32.840a job or whatever. Mostly Mexicans stay at home with their families for a while because
00:02:39.220pay is very bad so you really can't get an income that allows you to rent an apartment. So mostly
00:02:47.080I stay at home with my family. And my parents sometimes treat me like a child. You know,
00:02:53.540sometimes I get punished or they dread punishment. But I think I became a man or I felt like that
00:03:01.200I became a man after a series of events that happened around 2002, 2003. Actually, I felt like a man after I graduated college because getting my degree was a very tough, bumpy road. I graduated high school in 98. I got my degree in 2006. That was like eight years of a very tough, tough, tough break.
00:03:27.020So I got expelled from college because of my grades. I had a lot of no sense of direction of what I wanted to do. I didn't know who I was and what I really wanted to do. So I had a lot of these issues running around my head that I really wasn't focusing on important things. So because of grades, I got expelled, tried again, got expelled again because of grades.
00:03:53.140My dad was really mad. My dad was really mad. And finally, he just found me to take jobs, which I really didn't like. And when I finally got back to studying in the summer of 2003, you know, I felt like I've gone through hell and survived it. And I felt a lot stronger, much more mature than when I started the journey.
00:04:19.500And by the time I graduated, I remember my dad inviting me out for celebratory dinner. And I just cried at one point because I thought finally, after all I went through, I finally graduated from college. And whatever comes, it won't be as bad as the past few years have been.
00:04:45.920So graduating college was that kind of that moment where you felt like you accomplished something and you really felt like you became a man then?
00:04:53.460Yeah. And really, the whole experience, the whole journey is like that moment which my point of view of life really changed.
00:05:05.020Suddenly, I felt like success is not something so easily achieved, which a lot of people want or seem to get. It just felt a lot more valuable, savoring success after going through a lot of obstacles.
00:05:21.020Well, that's really interesting, Carlos. Thanks for sharing that with us. Carlos, so on to our next question. What does manliness mean to you?
00:05:26.940To me, it really means responsibility for oneself, firstly, and then for others.
00:05:33.000If you're not responsible for yourself, take care of yourself, how can you later on in life be responsible for a family if you don't value who you are, if you don't take care of yourself, if you don't assume the consequences of your actions?
00:05:50.400To me, that's what being a man really is and perhaps also being committed to whatever it is you promise.
00:05:59.080Very interesting. And Carlos, you're from Mexico. And one thing that people often talk about in Mexico and other Latin American countries is machismo.
00:06:08.860What's your experience with machismo? Is it something that not a lot of people have or are you trying to battle against that?
00:06:15.160I mean, what's your experience with machismo?
00:06:17.420Well, it sort of, it has changed a bit since, you know, the old days when that was sort of like a value, especially during the 40s, 30s, 50s, you know, that's the sort of stereotype that sort of became widely known.
00:06:35.200But it does exist, but mostly, I felt it exists mostly in the lower classes, not so much in the middle class and the higher classes.
00:06:46.200It basically because of the sort of values that they've been taught, you know, middle class is much more educated, so they're more open to modern ideas.
00:06:58.420And the lower classes, well, they don't have that level of education and culture.
00:07:06.000So that's probably where it's mostly marked.
00:07:09.300Hmm. Okay. Well, Carlos, what men in your life, it can be living, dead, or even fictional, what men have influenced your view of manliness?
00:07:19.000Well, you know, my granddad has been a very big influence on me. My father, in the sense that he is a very responsible man. He's got a work ethic. I mean, he's been working since 1968.
00:07:35.820So he's really addicted to work, in a sense. But, you know, he tries his best to provide us all with our basic needs.
00:07:50.060Probably, philosophically, I've been influenced by George Orwell. I've read 1984, Animal Farm, a lot of his essays, and even in his journal, his work journal.
00:08:03.440And philosophically, he's been a big influence on me. He's like my favorite writer.
00:08:08.200Recently, John Steinbeck has influenced me in my view of work. After I read The Grapes of Wrath, I felt that when he described the importance of the farmers and how they love their land, and their work, and how machines don't really have that contact, or the people that run the tractors,
00:08:32.340I sort of felt, that's sort of what I think about job, or any job, any work. That it's something you do. I mean, it doesn't matter if it's a thankless job. As long as you do it, and you're proud of it, you should be proud of it. That's all that really matters. And, you know, John Steinbeck really has me. Well, mostly my granddad.
00:08:56.340Yeah. In what ways has your granddad influenced you?
00:09:00.300Well, his life has been a bit of an inspiration to me, because he's done these, what I think are amazing things. I don't think he's ever thought of them as being amazing.
00:09:13.860He lived in a different time than I did, so that's fascinating. You know, different times, different cultural values, even basically a much more simpler time, I think, because they didn't depend too much on technology.
00:09:31.540So they did things different. They took things day by day, you know, slowly. He reads a lot. And I think I've gotten that love for reading from him and from my dad.
00:09:43.100But music, I mean, I remember when I was 14, 15, he still had his old record player. And we found some old records from Chester's old records and my mom's old records. And we would listen to music.
00:09:59.860And jazz was one of his favorite. His favorite record was probably Take Time Out by the Debrebrook Quartet. And so that type of music has entered my consciousness.
00:10:15.060Because before that, I don't think I would have heard jazz until my grandfather. Old movies, back in the old, back around that time, they used to show old movies on TV, TV. And so I was introduced to a world of classic Hollywood films.
00:10:33.140Yeah, I don't know if you ever watched any of the old Mexican films as well from that time, you know, the 30s and 40s. There's a lot of good ones from that time period as well.
00:10:40.600Yeah, I actually have watched a lot of those. They're very, they're very good movies. I think the quality comes from the fact that there was a lot of censorship back in those days. So filmmakers had to find ingenious ways to tell a story without being crude or doing things that nowadays seem like unnecessary. I mean, sex scenes seem to me like if they don't add anything to the plot thing, why have them?
00:11:09.920Yeah. Well, Carlos, you talked about this a little bit already. But how did your father influence your conception of manliness?
00:11:16.920Well, my father, I don't think he really has as much influence as my granddad. Because technically, he's been sort of like an obstinate dad. You know, he works a lot, but we hardly had growing up a lot of father and son moment.
00:11:36.520I was in the, I lived in the States for a while. And I was a Boy Scout. But my dad wasn't really involved in that. My mom was, but not my dad. Not as much as my mom was. But he, he did teach me my values. He learned my values from my dad.
00:11:55.640My appreciation for literature. He reads a lot. And of course, he pushes us to read. As well as he's a very well-informed man. So we really can talk about a variety of subjects.
00:12:10.460Very good. And Carlos, one thing we talk about on the website sometimes is about how men our age, 20s, 30s, didn't learn some of these skills that our grandfathers knew or our dads know. Is there one thing your dad can do or your grandfather could do that you can't?
00:12:29.880Well, my dad can multitask. It's amazing. It's amazing. I used to hear my dad, my aunt used to tell stories about when he was a kid. He could actually watch TV, read a book, listen to the radio and do his homework, something like that. I mean, it's amazing. He's a very smart man, a hardworking man.
00:12:55.280And I think the thing that impresses me the most is the fact that he can solve people's problems. I mean, at least professional problem. He's had a few jobs in the past few years where basically the companies aren't that good. And he just comes in and changes everything or as much as he can. Cost effectiveness, he does it. It's amazing. He's very smart. He's a very smart man.
00:13:21.220Very cool. And Carlos, last question. What's the hardest thing you've ever done as a man, either emotionally, physically, intellectually in your life?
00:13:32.180Well, this basically takes us back to the first answer, just surviving those eight years of getting to college. I mean, 2002, 2002 was probably the most difficult year I ever had because my dad was really supporting me or guiding me.
00:13:51.820I was totally lost. I had my mom to support me, but most of the time it was just me trying to come out of this hole I was in and really know who I was and what I wanted to do.
00:14:07.140That was probably the most difficult thing I've ever gone through.
00:14:12.080And are there any lessons that you've taken away from that experience?
00:14:15.660Definitely. One of the things I've actually learned is not to have regrets.
00:14:20.640If my life took me there, if my choices took me there to that particular situation, then instead of looking back and saying,
00:14:31.900I wish I'd done things differently, I just go ahead and say, well, I'll do things differently from now on,
00:14:38.720but not really look back at what could have been, but what is, and probably I have no regrets anymore.
00:14:50.460I used to have regrets even before that about certain changes that I made.
00:14:57.620I said, oh, I wish I'd done things differently, but I learned through that experience that there are no what-ifs.
00:15:04.020Either you learn from the past and not obsessed with that, but take those lessons and move forward is much better than just holding on to something that is counterproductive.
00:15:19.020Well, Carlos, thank you for your time. It's been very interesting talking to you, and it's been a pleasure.