The Art of Manliness - April 04, 2014


Episode #39: Eugen Sandow, Victorian Strongman with David Waller


Episode Stats

Length

28 minutes

Words per Minute

177.40027

Word Count

5,096

Sentence Count

266

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

5


Summary

Before Arnold Schwarzenegger and even before Charles Atlas, there was Eugene Sandow. Rising from obscurity in Prussia, Sandow became an international celebrity during the golden age of the strongman in the late 19th century for his amazing feats of strength and his well-sculpted physique. While Sandow wowed crowds in the United Kingdom and the United States, he also preached a new gospel of physical fitness and well-being.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
00:00:21.240 Before Arnold Schwarzenegger and even before Charles Atlas, there was Eugene Sandow.
00:00:26.640 Rising from obscurity in Prussia, Sandow became an international celebrity during the golden
00:00:33.160 age of the strongman in the late 19th century for his amazing feats of strength and his well-sculpted
00:00:39.060 physique. While Sandow wowed crowds in the United Kingdom and the United States, he also preached
00:00:46.000 a new gospel of physical fitness and well-being. Our guest today has recently published a biography
00:00:51.860 of Sandow and his times. His name is David Waller and his book is The Perfect Man, The
00:00:57.120 Muscular Life and Times of Eugene Sandow, Victorian Strongman. Mr. Waller has worked as a journalist
00:01:03.580 for the Financial Times and has written and published two books on business. He lives
00:01:08.660 in southwest London with his wife and three children.
00:01:11.440 Well, David, welcome to the show. It's great having you.
00:01:17.460 It's great to be here, Brett.
00:01:18.860 So you've written this book about the strongman Eugene Sandow. For those who out there who are
00:01:26.280 listening who've never heard of Sandow, can you kind of give a short biography? Who is
00:01:30.980 he and what did he do?
00:01:33.780 Of course. It'll be a great pleasure. A hundred years ago, Eugene Sandow would have been one
00:01:38.960 of the most famous people on the planet. He was famous in North America. He was famous
00:01:43.160 in Great Britain. He was famous in Europe. He was famous the length and breadth of the
00:01:48.100 British Empire. And he was famous for having the most extraordinary male body, obviously
00:01:53.200 male body. He was known in his day as the perfect man. And he celebrated for the perfection
00:02:01.380 of his body, but also for being one of the strongest people on the planet as well. He never
00:02:08.460 actually said that he was the strongest man in the world, but other people made that claim
00:02:12.820 for him. So that's really who he was in terms of celebrity in his heyday. He was born in
00:02:18.720 1867 in East Prussia, in a place that is now part of Russia, Königsberg, and no longer
00:02:25.720 exists actually. It's called Kaliningrad now. And that was in 1867. And he came to prominence
00:02:32.360 in 1889 when he jumped onto a music hall stage in London and entered into a challenge. And
00:02:40.080 he won this challenge and thereafter became almost overnight a celebrity on the music hall
00:02:46.620 stage. In 1893, he came to North America, spent a number of years over in your part of
00:02:52.720 the world and became very celebrated on the vaudeville circuit. Then he went back to London
00:02:57.940 in 1897. A very rich man, he had accumulated about $250,000 of earnings by that time. And
00:03:06.000 with that, he set up his own fitness establishment and a mail order business in which he sold the
00:03:14.220 secrets of bodily perfection by mail order. And he had tens, if not hundreds of thousands
00:03:19.200 of adherents all around the world. And then he went on to build up an even more ambitious
00:03:24.420 business empire, for example, manufacturing coffee and cocoa powder. And I'm afraid to
00:03:33.480 say that it all went badly wrong at the time of the First World War, and his business failed.
00:03:38.420 And after the First World War, he went into obscurity. And when he died in 1925, he was actually buried
00:03:47.380 in an unmarked grave in Putney Bale Cemetery in southwest London.
00:03:52.700 Wow. So he was really the proto Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Jack LaLanne. I mean, he was one of the
00:03:59.980 first people who kind of got involved in the physical fitness movement then.
00:04:03.380 Yeah, he invented, they didn't call it physical fitness in those days, they call it physical
00:04:08.540 culture. And he really was the pioneer of that. And Schwarzenegger explicitly credits some of his
00:04:15.320 own training and some of his own motivation to Sandow. Sandow invented a certain exercise
00:04:20.200 regime, and Schwarzenegger based his own regime in his early days as a strongman, as a bodybuilder,
00:04:26.560 on Sandow's recommendations. And as you'll know, if you win the Mr. Atlas bodybuilding competition,
00:04:33.160 you get a Sandow statuette, a little statue of Sandow, not wearing very many clothes, but
00:04:39.500 he had this kind of body that is still to this day celebrated in those circles. Charles Atlas
00:04:44.940 also owed debt to Sandow. So he really was the very first person to be anything more than,
00:04:51.700 if you like, a kind of circus strongman.
00:04:54.060 So, I mean, that's one of the impressions I got when I was reading this book, was that
00:04:57.220 what Sandow was doing was something new. It was bizarre. I mean, the whole idea of
00:05:03.360 shaping your body and being obsessed about your, you know, your muscles and exercising and nutrition,
00:05:09.740 that it was sort of a novelty. And during the Victorian times, what was the state of
00:05:16.740 physical culture, as you said, around the turn of the century? And how did Sandow change the
00:05:23.900 conversation about it and, or get people excited about physical fitness?
00:05:28.540 He started off as, um, a, like a circus strongman. He wasn't actually on the circus stage, but he
00:05:35.140 had performed in musical, which is popular culture at its most lively. Um, in London, there were four
00:05:41.960 or 500 of these musicals and the American equivalent was of course Vodafil. And, and there were many
00:05:47.220 strongmen. And, and what you had to do was to keep your audience entertained by doing
00:05:50.900 feats of strength. Um, and just being ever more ingenious in lifting up people sitting on a piano,
00:05:57.520 for example, or elephants or, um, cannons. He found that one point balanced a cannon on his nose.
00:06:04.920 So in his early days, he was kind of like a showman, but what he did, um, quite remarkably was
00:06:10.640 take the celebrity that he won from the stage to, uh, to propagate this philosophy of physical culture.
00:06:17.960 And, and, and this was very scientific. He had, uh, what appears to be a very detailed knowledge
00:06:23.220 of anatomy. Uh, he claimed to have studied, uh, university in Germany. We don't know whether
00:06:27.880 that's actually true, but he knew the name of all the muscles in the body. And he had a philosophy
00:06:32.900 which was basically, if you exercise a little and a lot in a very controlled fashion, using a
00:06:39.800 dumbbell, we'll come back to that, but he recommended that you use his own patented dumbbell,
00:06:43.720 that with a relatively small investment of time and effort, you could actually change the way you
00:06:49.940 looked, change your shape, uh, in fact, transform your whole personality. And I mean, this is a very
00:06:55.080 modern concept by, by, by exercising in the privacy of your own room. This wasn't something you did in
00:07:01.300 the gym, particularly something you could do at home. You could actually look like him. So he,
00:07:06.200 what he did was he turned his own body, not just his name, but his own body into a kind of global
00:07:10.480 brand. And his message was, look, if you follow my regime, you too can look like me.
00:07:17.280 And one of the things I remember reading that I thought was really interesting was how, um,
00:07:22.940 the, the British military were, they were concerned about the, the fitness level of,
00:07:28.340 of British men. Um, and you know, at this point they were trying to manage a vast empire and they
00:07:34.140 were concerned that British men weren't up to the task of, of doing that because they're just
00:07:38.760 so out of shape. I mean, did the people just not exercise back then? I mean, was that, I mean,
00:07:43.260 did they not really think about that? They just, what was their idea of physical fitness before
00:07:47.460 Sandow came in and actually showed them his scientific approach to physical culture?
00:07:53.480 Well, people clearly played sports, uh, and the kind of sport that you pursued did depend on your
00:07:58.940 social class. So upper class men would go hunting, for example, or they would fence, uh, or working
00:08:05.300 club men would play football. And in parts of the colonies, like, uh, New Zealand in particular,
00:08:10.720 people would play rugby even in those days. But what people didn't do was train in a systematic
00:08:16.260 way to achieve physical fitness. And Sandow made this distinction between recreational exercise.
00:08:22.360 So in other words, the exercise you get when running around a football pitch and this kind
00:08:26.360 of disciplined scientific exercise, which had a very clear objective of increasing, um, your physical
00:08:33.120 fitness. So that was, that was his philosophy. Now, how did that touch on, uh, the need of the
00:08:37.860 British nation at this time? Of course, in the late 1890s, Britain had the biggest empire that the
00:08:44.120 world had ever seen. But why were they worried? They were worried because firstly, there were
00:08:49.000 challenges to their power wherever they turned, but in particular in South Africa. Um, and this was
00:08:55.000 the time of the second borough war. And, um, this was a challenge to, uh, British power from, uh, a, a, a, a, a, a, a race of, uh, farmers, uh, outdoors, tough,
00:09:07.000 wiry, Boer farmers who were of Dutch, uh, origins. And they very, very, very close to defeating the British
00:09:16.580 empire and humiliating the British empire in a whole series of battles in, in, in, uh, 1900, early 1900.
00:09:23.740 And to your point, when Britain looked for volunteers among its own population, there were many, many tens of
00:09:30.800 thousands of men who wanted to sign up and go and fight, but their physical condition turned out to be
00:09:36.260 quite appalling. Uh, and it's especially true of kind of working class men, uh, from the cities like
00:09:43.540 Manchester in the north of England, for example, and also London, of course. These people had a very poor
00:09:49.060 diet. They didn't really do any sport or exercise at all. They were much shorter than people who were
00:09:55.140 of higher social economic status. So up to half the, um, volunteers, um, from Manchester, for example,
00:10:03.120 were turned down on the basis that they were not physically fit. So Sandow came along and said,
00:10:08.360 I can help this nation. If you follow my exercises, I can turn these weaklings into paragons of strength.
00:10:15.320 So something somewhat ironic, because of course, Sandow himself was not British. He wasn't even
00:10:20.980 a British citizen at this point. He came from Germany, but he was helping Britain to, uh, become,
00:10:25.540 uh, more effective as a, as a military machine.
00:10:28.180 Hmm. Um, so earlier you talked about how Sandow got his start as a stage show strongman. I, I, I find
00:10:34.920 this whole aspect of the time period just very fascinating, the whole, this whole aspect of
00:10:38.600 popular culture during Victorian times. There was this obsession with strongman. And I, and I,
00:10:42.600 it's one of those, I guess, iconic images of the, the man in the leotard with the handlebar mustache
00:10:47.500 lifting up, you know, a dumbbell that says a thousand pounds, how much of that, you know,
00:10:53.700 stayed to those feats of strength. How much of that was actually Sandow, a display of his strength
00:10:59.220 and how much of it was a little bit of, you know, wink, wink showmanship going on there?
00:11:05.280 Well, that's a very good question. There was a lot of showmanship, but, um, it's interesting
00:11:10.520 that, that Harry Houdini, um, who was no stranger to showmanship himself, actually investigated
00:11:15.840 the whole question of stage strongman. And he came to the conclusion, actually, that Sandow
00:11:19.780 was not a fraud. There were other people who were often caught out, uh, being fraudulent.
00:11:25.540 So they would have, uh, dumbbells, uh, that were, that were hollow and they would pretend
00:11:29.600 that they were very heavy. Or they would have machines, uh, that it would, it would look
00:11:33.360 as though they were lifting up a horse, but actually they were using mechanical aid, um,
00:11:37.620 to, to help them with that. But Sandow, Sandow, he was intelligent. He had served some time,
00:11:43.380 um, in a circus. He knew all about, um, putting together an act which looked exciting and looked
00:11:50.480 convincing and, um, uh, and deployed tricks as well as just outright strength. So for example,
00:11:57.340 one of his party pieces was to, uh, lift up a man who was sitting playing, uh, a piano. Uh,
00:12:04.080 and he lifted up the man and the piano and he carted them off stage, uh, uh, apparently,
00:12:08.900 um, with, uh, just using one arm, one hand and one arm. And there was a trick to this because
00:12:14.580 what he did was he put his hand behind the piano and there was a handle specially built
00:12:18.620 where he could kind of slip his, his forearm in there and, and lift it up. Now it was still
00:12:23.500 an incredible feat of strength, but it wasn't quite the naked, um, show of force that the audience
00:12:30.040 might've seen. And there were other examples. I mean, he was very good at supporting, uh,
00:12:35.980 very heavy weights. So what he'd do is he'd lie on his back and put his chest and torso
00:12:39.920 upwards and they would put a plank or a platform on, on top of him. And on top of this, they
00:12:46.720 would then load up, uh, people, all the equipment on the stage, sometimes actual wheel horses,
00:12:53.420 uh, cannons when he was pretending to be, uh, doing a military scene and they'd load up,
00:12:58.840 you know, more than a ton weight would go on his, uh, up to a stomach and he could hold
00:13:03.320 on to that. He couldn't lift it, but he could certainly support it. And, uh, that's another
00:13:08.220 example. Um, Edison, Thomas Edison filmed, uh, Sandow in an early visit to the U S I think
00:13:14.420 it was about 1896 and Sandow is doing, um, um, full, um, somersaults from a standing start
00:13:22.680 holding, um, to, I think that's 56 pound dumbbells. So one in each hand, he's doing, um, um, he's
00:13:30.840 doing somersaults, uh, with that. And there was nothing fake about that. He was, he was
00:13:34.960 very strong. He was very gifted and he was very elegant.
00:13:38.840 We're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
00:13:40.880 And now back to the show.
00:13:44.060 Why do you think in just your research in the book and the times, why were these strongman
00:13:49.100 shows so popular? I mean, why, why did someone like Sandow become an international celebrity?
00:13:55.460 Well, I think, I mean, there were a lot of stage strongmen. Um, most of, in fact, nearly all of
00:14:02.340 them never did anything more than, uh, this kind of, um, show on the musical or voodoo stage.
00:14:10.880 Sandow went a lot further than that. And I think he was one of the very first, um,
00:14:16.500 celebrities to, if you like, leverage the power of, uh, the new media, the new technology that
00:14:23.000 was available in, in, in those days. I mean, it's kind of quite a modern story. He, he became
00:14:28.460 famous in Britain and rather like a kind of pop group today, he, he realized that he has
00:14:33.780 to go to America to really achieve global play fame. He went there and because of the power
00:14:38.180 of photography and because of, um, the telegraph, um, and, uh, and, um, because of the increasing,
00:14:44.940 um, proliferation of, of new media, uh, there were thousands of new magazines and newspapers
00:14:52.920 in the 1890s catering to, um, the growing population, love of news and story. Sandow was able to use,
00:15:01.140 you know, what we'd call modern public relations techniques to make his own name, um, very popular,
00:15:07.080 very well known. And, uh, and that, that's how he built up a brand. So he saw the opportunity
00:15:13.280 where other people were content to earn a living on stage. He thought he, he decided to go a lot
00:15:18.060 further than that and build a business on the back of his stage name. And in the interviews that he did
00:15:23.740 towards the end of the 1890s and in the early years of the last century, he said, look, he said,
00:15:29.120 I don't, I don't really see myself as a showman anymore. I'm much more, I have a much more serious
00:15:34.820 mission. This is the education of the population in, in, into the philosophy and practice of physical
00:15:41.280 culture. But I do my shows in order to keep, uh, myself and my, we didn't use the word brand, but my name
00:15:49.560 and my methodology in the forefront of people's mind. So it was a bit like a kind of, you know,
00:15:55.720 a rap star today, perhaps, um, or, or a film star who saw opportunities to do more than just appear
00:16:03.080 on stage and make music or act. Throughout your book, you have pictures of Sandow just doing various
00:16:09.580 poses, displaying off his amazing physique. Um, but he's like pretty much naked. Like the only thing he
00:16:15.920 has on a lot of these pictures is like is a leaf that's covering up as bits and pieces. And a lot
00:16:21.280 of these, what I thought was fascinating, a lot of these images that there were photos that were
00:16:24.740 taken of them were published in magazines. But the irony is that this was done kind of at the height
00:16:30.160 of, you know, Victorian times with all, and all the modesty and decorum that came with that.
00:16:35.660 How was it that Sandow was able to, you know, pose half naked or pretty much naked and not receive a lot
00:16:43.140 of scorn for that? Well, uh, it's an extremely good question. I think what this exposes, uh, more
00:16:50.140 than just his, uh, near naked, just as it were, is some of the, uh, double standards of the, the
00:16:55.460 Victorian area. I mean, you know, in the 1890s, for example, um, for the first time ever on the British
00:17:02.020 stage, uh, did the public get to see, uh, a naked, uh, ankle, a woman's ankle, and that caused a great
00:17:10.980 scandal. So how come when it was scandalous to see, uh, uh, a lady's ankle on stage, could he get
00:17:17.660 away with being near naked? I think there are a number of observations. Firstly, he always cloaked
00:17:22.780 himself in the language of, um, classical, uh, art and sculpture. And he said, look, look at me
00:17:30.280 because I turned my body into, uh, the literal embodiment of, of classical sculpture. And at the
00:17:36.480 time there was enormous reverence for everything to do with ancient Rome and Greece. And the fact
00:17:40.840 that he could pose as he did, uh, in, in the shape of the dying gladiator or discobulus, these,
00:17:46.580 these great classical statues gave the whole thing, a kind of aura of, uh, almost academic
00:17:52.020 respectability. I mean, that's, that's one observation. The other point was he always made
00:17:56.520 sure to associate himself with doctors and soldiers and other respectable people who gave the fact that
00:18:02.960 he was taking his clothes off this kind of, you know, veneer of respectability. Uh, it was part of,
00:18:07.940 if you like, almost like a public health project. Um, and then the other point was that, that things
00:18:14.280 were a little racier in your part of the world than they were in Great Britain. He only really
00:18:19.280 started taking all his clothes off more or less when he went to America and he met, and he met
00:18:23.580 Florence Ziegfeld. Ziegfeld of course is well known for Ziegfeld's follies, but at the time of the
00:18:28.640 Chicago World Exposition in, um, or the Columbia World Exposition rather in 1893, uh, Ziegfeld, um,
00:18:35.800 Ziegfeld's first triumph, um, in, in, in, in his career was with Fandau. And Fandau was encouraged to
00:18:43.240 take even more clothes off. And, uh, and he was quite clearly, um, sexy. It was designed to appeal, uh,
00:18:51.320 particularly to the female audience. And in Chicago and Washington and New York and other big American
00:18:57.460 cities, he would hold these kind of special sessions for society ladies who would come backstage
00:19:03.560 after the main show and would be allowed for the sake, they'd have to pay a little bit extra fee
00:19:08.400 for this. They would be allowed to kind of prod his muscles and kind of stroke the muscles and so
00:19:13.240 forth. And, and, and again, because these society ladies like, um, Mrs. Pullman, uh, from Chicago
00:19:19.540 and various senators wives from Washington, because they went along, the whole thing became acceptable.
00:19:25.080 But I think it was very clever, um, marketing in a way to make the whole thing risque without
00:19:31.080 attracting real condemnation. One other observation, one observation in 1901, um, the British museum,
00:19:40.600 the natural history museum in Britain decided, uh, to make a plaster cast of his body, uh, as the
00:19:46.520 perfect example of the Caucasian man, um, the, the Anglo-Saxon man. And, and this, uh, plaster cast,
00:19:54.280 um, which by the way, you can still see if you, uh, make a special application, it's hidden away
00:19:58.920 in the cellar of the museum, but this was designed to show off the kind of, uh, this perfect body.
00:20:05.400 And, uh, and this was for scientific purposes. It had the backing of very, very, very, very,
00:20:09.800 very distinguished scientists. But after about six weeks of this naked statue being on display
00:20:14.840 at the museum, um, the more conservative elements in British society, um, caused it to be removed.
00:20:21.960 There was a little bit of a scandal, um, and, uh, it was, it was taken down. So it wasn't quite,
00:20:27.720 he didn't always get away with it, but he nearly always got away with it.
00:20:31.080 Yeah. I thought that was some of the most interesting parts in the book where you describe
00:20:34.840 these private showings with these society women and just, you know, they're, they're,
00:20:39.720 they're, they're very timid to do it. And then, you know, they would start off with a,
00:20:43.480 a, their glove on their hand and, you know, touches muscles. And then they'd have the glove off
00:20:48.680 and they'd be swooning and fainting and there'd be smelling salt. I mean, it was just,
00:20:52.360 I thought it was really funny. Um, kind of, it's incredible that he could get away with it.
00:20:58.280 I mean, I can read a little quote. This is from an American newspaper. Wherever he went,
00:21:02.280 mobs paid dollars to see. And after the mobs had looked their fill, there were private seances to
00:21:07.320 which nice people went first in secret, but then in brazen bravado. Always ladies were present and
00:21:13.880 always their private amazement was recorded in the dispatches. But though they are,
00:21:17.880 though they're amazed, they tarried and though coyly fearful for a time,
00:21:22.520 they managed to repress their terror for a time and test the great muscle with a delicately gloved
00:21:27.400 forefinger. It's amazing how, how times have changed. And I guess Sandow was part of,
00:21:34.120 I, in some sense, he kind of began the liberalization of sexuality in the West.
00:21:40.040 I think that's right. I mean, he himself, uh, steered clear of, um, you know, getting caught
00:21:47.720 out in, in sexual liaisons. Um, Lillian Russell seems to have made an advance, um, to him, which
00:21:55.960 he turned down. He was, he was, he was very controlled, um, very scrupulous. I think he knew
00:22:02.680 that if he got a reputation for being a philanderer, um, you know, that would do
00:22:07.320 him harm with the general public. So he, he, he worked very hard, uh, to, uh, preserve, uh,
00:22:12.920 his respectability. And of course, uh, he got married in the late 1890s, um, to Blanche. Um,
00:22:19.080 and, and after that really, uh, he, he led what appeared to be quite a respectable married life,
00:22:24.760 um, for a considerable period of time. What you've said so far, and especially in your
00:22:30.600 biography at the very beginning, you talk about how he was an international celebrity. He was
00:22:33.960 known across the world in the United Kingdom, in the United States. He was an international
00:22:38.840 celebrity, a brand in and of himself, but we, most people, uh, don't, haven't really heard about
00:22:44.680 Sandow. Uh, and in fact, he was buried in an unmarked grave. Why is it that we don't
00:22:50.520 hear that much about Sandow today? Well, and by the way, the unmarked grave is about a mile away
00:22:57.080 from where I'm sitting. I live in Wimbledon. I'm sitting, I'm talking to you from Wimbledon,
00:23:00.440 very close to the, uh, tennis. Um, and just across Wimbledon Common, uh, is the Putney Grave Cemetery.
00:23:06.600 And that's where he was buried. And a couple of years ago, actually, um, some, some, uh, supporters,
00:23:11.880 some, uh, fans of his did cause, uh, a monument to be erected, um, to, uh, remember his name.
00:23:18.200 But for, uh, all of the last century, he was, uh, unmemorialized. And I think, you know,
00:23:23.640 it don't, it clearly does raise a question. I think, you know, the short, one question is what,
00:23:27.880 what did he do to upset his wife, his widow, Blanche, and his two daughters? And we just don't
00:23:34.040 know. But clearly they wanted nothing to do with his reputation. And within, he was dead, uh, one day,
00:23:40.680 two days later, he was buried. And then within a month, they sold everything in that, in the family
00:23:45.480 house. And very soon afterwards, um, Mrs. Sandow, uh, moved out of London and, um, no one ever heard
00:23:51.960 from her again. So, I mean, there are all sorts of stories about what he might have done, um, to,
00:23:56.920 to upset her. I mean, other widows, of course, would go to enormous amount of trouble to celebrate
00:24:02.360 the memory of their loved ones, but she, she did exactly the opposite. So that was one fact.
00:24:07.160 I mean, she just wasn't around promoting Sandow's name. But I think, you know, the bigger question
00:24:11.080 is, you know, what happened to these icons of popular culture, um, over time? And I think the
00:24:16.760 fact is that no matter how celebrated you were, and perhaps no, no matter how celebrated you are,
00:24:22.440 in due course, you're going to be forgotten. It's rather sad, but it's something very human.
00:24:27.000 Um, and, um, people, the specialists, so the bodybuilders, um, uh, you know, like Charles
00:24:34.040 Atlas and ultimately Schwarzenegger, they knew all about him. And so, and professional bodybuilders
00:24:38.360 to this day will know all about him, but his reputation with the general public, um, faded away.
00:24:43.880 But I have to say, you know, there are references to him a plenty in the literature of the time. So,
00:24:49.160 from James Joyce's, uh, Ulysses, there's a lot of mentions of him in there, um, to, uh, various novels
00:24:55.240 by, uh, Ian Forster, for example, um, you know, wherever you turn, he's written about, but, but,
00:25:01.400 which shows how popular he was at the time. But I think, you know, by, you know, by the time he
00:25:04.920 reached his own fifties, he died when he was 57, but quite young. Um, but by that time, his, his,
00:25:11.400 his tremendous physique was fading. He'd become mortal. Um, and I think people were less interested in
00:25:17.080 knowing about someone who, who really didn't have the secret of eternal life after all.
00:25:22.840 So, uh, this is a, a blog and a podcast about masculinity and manliness. Um, what legacy
00:25:30.440 did Sandow have on masculinity and manliness, particularly in the West? What, what is it,
00:25:36.920 how, how we've changed our idea of man, manliness because of him?
00:25:40.360 Well, I think one, one point, uh, he emerged at a crucial time in the history of, of masculinity.
00:25:47.960 It was almost exactly the point that the American West disappeared. Um, it was also the time when,
00:25:53.880 um, Western Europe was in the midst of a profound, um, uh, period of industrialization. And if you like,
00:26:03.160 the role of a man in those days had changed from being someone who had to, um, fight for a living,
00:26:10.120 on the frontier, defending his family, uh, from threats, uh, building a log cabin, uh, killing,
00:26:17.560 killing what you eat, as it were, uh, a man had had to become tamed and become, um, uh, civilized
00:26:24.360 and capable of living in society, often in cities with lots of other people around. And essentially,
00:26:30.040 if you like a less, uh, vigorous, perhaps a less violent sort of existence. And Sandow's proposition was,
00:26:36.680 look, um, you know, if you follow my exercise program, you, you too can be a real man. You can
00:26:42.200 be a real man within the constraints of society as it became more confining and more industrialized.
00:26:49.880 And, and he had a particular pitch for the working man, the man who had to go to the office,
00:26:55.000 who had to commute, um, who didn't have much time and lived in the suburbs and didn't have much space
00:27:00.280 for exercise. And the pitch was, look, if you do these exercises, just 19 of them every day for 20
00:27:06.280 to 25 minutes, you're going to transform your physique. You're going to become a little bit
00:27:12.680 more perfect, a little bit more like me. So it was empowering and it was empowering in a way that
00:27:17.880 appealed to, um, you know, evolving modern man. I think there's one other consideration. It was also
00:27:24.360 about posing. It was about showing off. Um, it was about looking in the mirror. One of the things he
00:27:29.640 encouraged people to do is to look in the mirror when they're exercising. It helped increase
00:27:33.640 concentration. He said, but it was also about taking pride in looking good and having the right
00:27:40.840 kind of shape. So I think that's quite modern. So I see him as if you like the patron saint, uh,
00:27:46.040 of modern exercise today, not just gym exercise, but you know, people who go for a jog,
00:27:50.920 they unconsciously owe an awful lot to Sandow's desire to, to put the whole business of exercise
00:27:57.640 onto a kind of scientific footing. Very good. Well, David, this has been a fascinating conversation.
00:28:03.880 Thank you for your time. It's been a pleasure. Well, it's been fantastic to talk to you too.
00:28:09.240 Our guest today was David Waller. David is the author of the book, The Perfect Man,
00:28:13.240 The Muscular Life and Times of Eugene Sandow, Victorian Strongman. You can find more information about
00:28:19.480 David's work at victorianstrongman.com and you can pick up a copy of his book, The Perfect Man at
00:28:25.640 amazon.com. Well, that wraps up another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast. For more manly tips
00:28:36.040 and advice, make sure to check out the Art of Manliness website at artofmanliness.com.
00:28:40.440 And until next time, stay matly.