The Art of Manliness - April 03, 2014


Episode #5： The Cultral History of Facial Hair with Allan Peterkin

Topics
postmodern beard facial hair politics
Hosted by
Brett McKay
Mentioned
Alan Peterkin Fidel Castro Henry VIII Bin Laden Al Gore Freud Berg
Episode #49： The Way Of Men With Jack Donovan

Episode Stats


Length

18 minutes

Words per minute

169.36

Word count

3,216

Sentence count

202

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

3

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

When a man decides to grow a beard or a mustache, he is taking part in a long and story tradition that goes back for millennia. But what he might not realize is that the decision to grow one comes with layers upon layers of cultural meaning. During different eras of time, beards have come to represent wisdom, goodness, evil, and social revolution. And our guest today has written a book that investigates the cultural history of the beard. His name is Alan Peterkin, and his book is called 1000 Beards: A Cultural History of Facial Hair.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here and welcome to another episode of the Art of Manliness podcast.
00:00:20.680 Now, when a man decides to grow a beard or a mustache, he's taking part in a long and
00:00:26.340 story tradition that goes back for millennia. But what he might not realize is that the
00:00:30.860 decision to grow a beard comes with layers upon layers of cultural meaning. During different
00:00:36.540 eras of time, beards have come to represent wisdom, goodness, evil, and social revolution.
00:00:42.480 And our guest today has written a book that investigates the cultural history of the beard.
00:00:47.140 His name is Alan Peterkin, and his book is called 1000 Beards, A Cultural History of Facial Hair.
00:00:52.700 When Alan isn't writing about the glories of beards and mustaches, he's a psychiatrist
00:00:56.620 and journalist in Toronto, Canada. Alan, welcome to the show.
00:01:00.760 Thank you very much.
00:01:02.400 All right, Alan. So the history of beards and mustache, and particularly the cultural history
00:01:06.460 of beards and mustache, is a pretty obscure topic. What inspired you to write about the
00:01:10.940 cultural history of facial hair?
00:01:12.660 Well, I was wanting to write a cultural history, and that one hadn't been done in a very long
00:01:17.420 time. And I was walking to work. I walked to work at the hospital, I guess, you know,
00:01:24.400 1990 or so. And I started to realize in Toronto that almost every third face on the street
00:01:32.120 had some kind of facial hair. And it seemed to be across races, across ages. And then when
00:01:37.480 I traveled, I get to the States a fair bit, and the rest of Canada, and college campuses,
00:01:42.100 I was finding the same thing. So I sort of asked myself, what's going on? Why is facial
00:01:47.080 hair suddenly so popular? And that led me to research the book.
00:01:51.660 Huh. And do you yourself have facial hair? Is that something?
00:01:54.520 I do just now, actually. Because it's so cold in Canada, I usually grow a beard over the winter.
00:02:01.320 I call it my indolence beard. It's really a desire not to shave when it's cold, basically.
00:02:07.720 Yeah. And when I was reading your book, Alan, one of the things I noticed is that religion
00:02:13.100 has played a big role in the history of the beard. What are some examples that you can give of
00:02:19.480 religion regulating or dictating how facial hair should be grown?
00:02:24.200 Well, what you see over history is a real flip-flop. So, you know, men take their cues from their
00:02:29.980 clergy, but they also take them from royalty. So, you know, the royalty factor, the monarch factor
00:02:36.980 is kind of in there as well, the political factor. But in terms of the religious beard,
00:02:42.540 and many of these rules, of course, still apply, you know, you have the notion that, for example,
00:02:48.340 Hasidic Jews don't shave their beards, Muslims don't shave their beards, Amish men have a particular 0.92
00:02:54.940 type of chin beard, you know, so that you see that there are still instructions about not clipping facial hair.
00:03:06.300 And so those rules sort of stay pretty constant. What you find in Christianity, though, is quite a flip-flop.
00:03:14.300 So you might have a pope saying it was a good idea, and then another one coming along and saying that
00:03:21.540 the beard should be taxed, or penance should be paid, or that you should shave your beard off as an act of penance.
00:03:29.380 So in, for example, in Roman Catholicism, you don't often see hairy clergy.
00:03:34.740 But if you look at the Greek Orthodox Church,
00:03:37.500 many of the clergymen there, many of the priests actually have facial hair.
00:03:43.160 So those things persist.
00:03:45.800 And again, I think believers follow their cues based on what those leaders are telling them.
00:03:53.300 And why did Christianity flip-flop on the status of the beard?
00:03:57.940 Well, again, I think it has to do with the link between, again, the monarchy and, you know,
00:04:02.700 and religion and religious leaders, so they were probably following what the monarch suggested.
00:04:09.900 But, you know, I think most of the portrayals of the devil, for instance,
00:04:15.240 show him as being kind of a hairy beast.
00:04:17.640 So that association that it becomes sort of devilish, it's pretty arbitrary.
00:04:23.960 There's really no rhyme to reason to it.
00:04:25.860 It's just, you know, if a leader decided that it was saintly, you know, it was fine to grow it.
00:04:31.800 If it was godlike, it was fine to grow it.
00:04:33.660 And then another leader would come along and say,
00:04:35.820 no, we think it's diabolical.
00:04:37.580 We think it's, you know, lustful and it needs to come off.
00:04:42.380 And you mentioned taxation of beards.
00:04:44.700 I thought that was really interesting as well.
00:04:46.880 Why did people, why did monarchs decide to tax beards and facial hair?
00:04:51.200 What was up with that?
00:04:52.640 Well, I think probably greed.
00:04:55.020 The idea of filling out the coffers.
00:04:56.860 I mean, a good example was Henry VIII who wore a beard himself but taxed men for wearing beards.
00:05:02.780 So I think sometimes it's about, you know, a sign of being an aristocrat or being in power that you can have the beard
00:05:10.340 and that the lowly man mustn't have it and you, in fact, have to tax him for having it.
00:05:15.280 So it's a form of kind of distinguishing classes, but also, as I say, just, you know, a bit of a money grab, I would imagine.
00:05:21.340 Yeah, I thought it was funny.
00:05:22.020 They pick up the beard.
00:05:23.140 You know, it's the one thing.
00:05:23.840 I'm going to tax your beard to make money off of that.
00:05:28.500 All right.
00:05:28.820 So, Alan, if the beard carries so much significant cultural meaning, I'm guessing deciding to shave it off does too.
00:05:36.060 Can you tell us a little bit about the history of shaving and its cultural meanings?
00:05:40.140 Yes.
00:05:40.640 Well, it's a very enduring ritual, you know, and it's a ritual we learn from our dads and our grandfathers.
00:05:47.820 And, you know, it's a ritual that's performed every day.
00:05:51.480 We have special implements to do it, and the implements keep getting fancier.
00:05:55.820 You know, there's a whole industry behind shaving now with, you know, five blade razors and about five steps to the kinds of potions you should use on your face.
00:06:04.640 So, it's a very enduring ritual that goes right back to Greek times, you know, that when a young boy first developed facial hair, it was something to be celebrated.
00:06:16.040 You know, they would keep the first clippings of it and sometimes bury them or, you know, sail them down the river.
00:06:22.840 It was, you know, a mark of manhood, essentially, that the facial hair was sprouting.
00:06:30.080 So, of course, in very early times, you know, there was no technology to do it.
00:06:35.720 It would have been very painful.
00:06:37.400 There's some evidence that prehistoric men used clam shells to sort of pluck out shells, pluck out the facial hair, rather, which would have been a kind of very painful thing to do.
00:06:48.040 And then, you know, you have the Bronze Age and you have implements being created and increasingly with every, you know, century, basically, better means to shave. 0.53
00:07:00.500 So, better razors, better steel, less dangerous kind of procedure.
00:07:06.520 There was a time, you know, in Rome where really only the wealthy could afford to go to barbers and that was quite a social hub.
00:07:15.200 But being shaven showed that you could afford it.
00:07:20.000 As the technologies got better, of course, then it's something that you could do at home.
00:07:24.500 And the big development is King Camp Gillette, who starts producing his razor in the early 1900s.
00:07:32.820 And you have men going to both the First and Second World War, coming back clean shaven.
00:07:39.120 And, you know, that's really where clean shavenness sort of took off.
00:07:44.840 You know, the last fuzzy era was Victorian times.
00:07:48.180 But after both World Wars, you know, the expectation was to be clean shaven and that clean shavenness was next to godliness.
00:07:58.260 So, it's an interesting development.
00:08:01.000 So, that's why today the beard has kind of waned in popularity.
00:08:04.800 Yeah, I think, you know, in the 20th century, you know, in the 50s, you saw beatniks.
00:08:11.560 In the 60s, you saw hippies.
00:08:13.820 In the 70s, you saw sort of, you know, swingers and the mustache.
00:08:19.340 In the 80s, you saw stubble.
00:08:21.700 But then it was in the 90s that you saw kind of the grunge look and then the real reemergence of the goatee.
00:08:28.060 And so, that was about the time that I was interested in researching the book because, you know, there were so many men wearing goatees and other kind of combinations of facial hair.
00:08:39.220 Not so often the full beard, but, you know, maybe a bit of stubble with a full mustache or sideburns and, you know, a cookie duster or something like that.
00:08:48.840 And so, it's just taken off since then and it seems like the permutations and combinations are endless and it's really showing no signs of slowing down.
00:08:59.420 Hmm. And going back to the kind of the cultural meaning of shaving, one thing I remember reading in your book was that people would often shave for religious reasons.
00:09:09.980 But also, if they were in times of mourning, I remember, and also, if a warrior was caught in battle, the captor would actually...
00:09:20.840 Oh, yeah, that was Hadrian Emperor who told all of his men to shave because he thought that in hand-to-hand combat, you know, you'd have your beard tugged on.
00:09:29.800 And I don't know if that's a particularly realistic view of things, but, you know, again, here's an example of a leader saying,
00:09:35.280 okay, this is the reason you've got to shave, you better do it. And that's exactly what happened.
00:09:39.300 I think what you're referring to with mourning is that it was more the opposite, that a man would stop shaving and stop tending to his appearance when in mourning
00:09:48.480 and would often, you know, go stubble and, you know, look a little more scruffy just to show the world that he was in mourning.
00:09:59.420 So that, I think, you know, men have often grown beards to mark transitions or shaman, actually, to mark transitions.
00:10:08.700 So, you know, a guy who's leaving a marriage or you think of Al Gore growing his beard after he lost the election,
00:10:15.660 that he was marking with his public faith kind of a change and a loss in his life, I would expect.
00:10:23.260 And similarly, you have men who've had facial hair entering a new relationship and wanting a new face and, you know, to look a little more youthful and they shave their hair off.
00:10:34.760 So transitions seem to be important in men's lives as to the decision to grow or not.
00:10:39.740 We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.
00:10:43.100 And now back to the show.
00:10:45.220 And one of the interesting things I thought that you wrote about in your book, you dedicated a section about the psychological theories of facial hair that men like Freud and others have come up with.
00:10:55.820 Can you explain some of these theories that they came up with that they thought facial hair represented or shaving represented?
00:11:02.060 Yeah, that was a fun chapter to write because it was a little over the top.
00:11:04.980 I found a reference by Dr. Berg, who was a psychoanalyst writing in the 50s.
00:11:10.160 And he, of course, was very much into classical psychoanalysis and Freudian interpretation and the Oedipal complex, etc.
00:11:18.360 So he thought that, you know, growing facial hair was an expression of libido and sort of lust and drive and competitiveness and showing you that you're more of a man than the one next to you or than your father.
00:11:32.060 So, but that would produce conflict in some men because they thought, oh my goodness, I can't compete with, you know, my boss, my father, etc., my authority figure.
00:11:41.560 So the act of shaving became kind of an act of self-castration, as he saw it, that you'd actually be keeping all these impulses in check by going through the ritual of shaving every day.
00:11:53.520 And, you know, I think that's kind of far-fetched, but it was certainly fun to read.
00:11:58.140 I think some of the other things, though, because psychologists, more modern psychologists, have actually looked at this question of facial hair.
00:12:06.780 And they've done studies like have women rate photographs of men with or without facial hair.
00:12:13.360 And invariably women and other respondents, including men, will find that the bearded face is a more virile, powerful, masculine one.
00:12:23.460 But then if you go a step further and ask the women if they would want to date the man in the picture, they tended, at least in the 60s and 70s, when these studies were being done, to say no, that although it was very masculine, there was also something kind of threatening about it.
00:12:38.940 And there's this whole notion of kind of what could the evolutionary purpose of the beard be.
00:12:45.100 And, of course, apart from protecting our faces from the elements, there's something about the beard making our jaw look larger and our teeth look more prominent.
00:12:57.360 And that goes back to apes who are, when they're in combat, stick their jaws out.
00:13:03.480 It's called jaw jet.
00:13:05.160 And they show their teeth and stick their jaw out, and it makes them look more ferocious.
00:13:09.580 So there's something also about, you know, the bearded face kind of lending a certain ferociousness.
00:13:15.500 And that probably served us over millennia.
00:13:17.960 You talked a little bit about how the beard is on or facial hair is on the rise.
00:13:25.640 You know, it's the trend is everyone's starting to grow beards and facial hair.
00:13:28.360 But it seems that, you know, my kind of experience that when a man decides to grow a beard these days, particularly young men, they do it to be ironic.
00:13:38.760 Yeah.
00:13:38.920 A hip thing.
00:13:40.220 I mean, so is this the future of the beard in Western society?
00:13:42.920 Is it just irony?
00:13:43.960 I mean, what is the future of facial hair in, you know, postmodern society?
00:13:48.440 Well, you know, I sort of thought about what the postmodern beard is because, you know, as I said, we used to take our cues from the people at the top, clergy, monarchy.
00:13:58.880 Nowadays, we take our cues from popular culture.
00:14:02.160 So it could be, you know, athletes, musicians, movie stars, porn stars.
00:14:08.020 I mean, that's where young men, you know, men in general kind of take their cues on how they should look, how their bodies should look.
00:14:14.780 But I think for the most part, it really is both an act of rebellion and playfulness at the same time.
00:14:23.100 And, you know, it's also, I think, significant that some of the men I interviewed said, well, this is something that I can do that women can't do.
00:14:30.740 So, you know, kind of maybe a bit of a, you know, backlash to feminism on some level. 1.00
00:14:36.460 But, again, I think quite playful.
00:14:39.160 The young men I interviewed were all doing it just to kind of push the envelope.
00:14:43.560 But I think what that suggests is that our culture now is more hospitable to facial hair than they have been for a while.
00:14:51.200 So you can, most men can work with facial hair, with the exception of banking and politics.
00:15:00.360 Most workplaces are pretty tolerant.
00:15:02.980 You know, IT, academia, the creative field, the artistic field, they're all fine with you having facial hair.
00:15:10.620 And part of what you're saying, I think, with facial hair is I'm no corporate slave.
00:15:15.700 I can do this.
00:15:17.240 If my dad, my granddad had to shave to keep their jobs, I don't have to do that.
00:15:24.140 And I can be playful.
00:15:25.780 And then there's the whole notion of it being kind of, again, virile, masculine, sexy, that I can be unabashedly all those things as well with my facial hair.
00:15:36.280 I like how you mentioned politics.
00:15:39.420 There was a time here in America when a president could have beards or mustaches.
00:15:44.540 And we had several famous presidents that had beards and mustaches.
00:15:47.500 Do you think as beards and facial hair becomes more popular that we'll be able to make its appearance again into the political scene?
00:15:55.960 You know, it's really hard to say because, you know, in modern times, the beard has taken on sort of more connotation.
00:16:03.600 So there's the notion of it being revolutionary, communist.
00:16:08.340 You know, people always think of Fidel Castro.
00:16:10.060 And then after 9-11, of course, there was this whole notion of, you know, maybe he's a terrorist if he's, you know, not, if he's of color, et cetera, and has facial hair, then maybe he's a terrorist.
00:16:24.420 And that was borne out by, for example, Indian and Pakistani men with beards being stopped more often at the border or at security gates at airports.
00:16:37.760 So it's taken on that, you know, that, ooh, this is sort of Bin Laden territory that we're talking about. 0.94
00:16:45.560 So it's still suspect.
00:16:47.500 I think it would take a long while before you would see North American politicians and even European politicians wearing beards.
00:16:56.160 Because the whole notion is, what's he hiding?
00:17:00.040 You know, there must be something a little suspect, a little sinister.
00:17:04.480 You know, all of our leaders in the last century have been clean-shaven, or at least, yeah, for large parts of the 20th century have been clean-shaven.
00:17:13.420 So what's going on with this guy?
00:17:16.480 In business, it's sort of the same thing, that, you know, in banking, you're expected to be part of a team and not to stand out and to kind of be predictable.
00:17:25.540 And uniform in your conduct and your appearance.
00:17:29.560 So, you know, if a guy started having facial hair, then maybe something's up.
00:17:33.580 And actually, I got a call last week from the Wall Street Journal that an American banker came back from his holidays with a beard.
00:17:39.500 And everybody said, aha, this must mean he's on his way out.
00:17:43.480 And indeed he was, because you just don't have facial hair in that arena.
00:17:48.980 Very interesting.
00:17:50.020 Well, Alan, this was a fascinating discussion.
00:17:52.840 Thank you for your time, and good luck with your book.
00:17:55.540 All right, thank you.
00:17:56.280 Just to let you know, there's another one coming, which is going to be called The Bearded Gentleman, A Guide to Shaving Face.
00:18:03.540 And this is more about kind of styling, preserving, and then shaving it off and starting all over.
00:18:09.060 And that's also with Arsenal Pup Press.
00:18:11.120 Well, fantastic.
00:18:11.780 Well, we look forward to it.
00:18:13.300 Okay, my pleasure.
00:18:14.280 Take care.
00:18:15.040 Thank you.
00:18:15.920 Our guest today was Alan Peterkin.
00:18:17.620 Alan is the author of the book, 1,000 Beards, A Cultural History of Facial Hair.
00:18:21.900 And you can pick up Alan's book at arsenalpulp.com slash 1,000beards.
00:18:27.900 Well, that wraps up another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
00:18:35.120 For more manly tips and advice, check back at the Art of Manliness website at artofmanliness.com.
00:18:40.360 And remember, we got a book on sale, too.
00:18:43.000 It's The Art of Manliness, Classic Skills and Manners for the Modern Man.
00:18:47.100 You can buy it at any major bookstore, amazon.com, and our own website.
00:18:50.880 So for more information about the book, check out artofmanliness.com slash the book.
00:18:55.660 And until next week, stay manly.