The Art of Manliness - Episode #53： Experimenting With Your Life With A.J. Jacobs

00:00:00.000 This episode of the Art of Manliness podcast

00:00:01.580 is brought to you by The Strenuous Life.

00:00:03.080 The Strenuous Life is an online program that we created

00:00:05.240 to help you put into action all the things

00:00:06.600 we've been writing about in Art of Manliness

00:00:07.920 and talking about on the podcast for the past 10 years.

00:00:10.360 We've done that in a few ways.

00:00:11.480 We've created badges based around 50 different skills.

00:00:13.900 We've also have weekly challenges

00:00:15.220 that are gonna put you outside of your comfort zone,

00:00:16.900 physically, mentally, and socially.

00:00:18.500 We also have accountability for your physical fitness,

00:00:21.180 a daily good deed to get you thinking outside of yourself.

00:00:23.500 Got enrollment coming up the week of June 15th.

00:00:26.140 So if you'd like to be one of the first to know

00:00:27.640 when enrollment opens up,

00:00:28.560 head over to strenuouslife.co,

00:00:30.340 get your name on our waiting list,

00:00:31.480 we'll send you an email,

00:00:32.360 and you can also find out more information

00:00:33.700 about the program at strenuouslife.co.

00:00:51.520 Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition

00:00:53.640 of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:55.660 Now, what do you think your life would be like

00:00:57.600 if you try to live every single one

00:01:00.300 of the more than 700 laws and commandments in the Bible?

00:01:03.940 I'm not talking about the 10 commands,

00:01:05.220 but like those little small ones that are in Leviticus

00:01:07.880 and it's just gonna get a passing line.

00:01:10.080 Or how about if you try to read every single page

00:01:13.080 of the Encyclopedia Britannica in one year?

00:01:16.320 Or what do you think your life would be like

00:01:18.200 if you tried to follow every bit of health advice

00:01:20.420 that you see on the news or you read on blogs

00:01:23.260 or in magazines or newspapers?

00:01:25.680 Well, our guest today has done just those things.

00:01:28.720 His name is AJ Jacobs, and he is a writer,

00:01:31.400 and he's also the editor-at-large at Esquire Magazine,

00:01:34.480 and he's a self-proclaimed human guinea pig.

00:01:37.400 Today, we're gonna talk about some of these crazy experiments

00:01:39.880 that AJ has done with his life

00:01:41.680 and that he's written about.

00:01:44.100 And we're gonna talk about what he's learned

00:01:45.760 from these experiments,

00:01:46.660 how they've helped him become a better husband,

00:01:49.940 a better father, just an overall better man,

00:01:52.560 some of the missteps and some of the more funny things

00:01:54.840 that have happened from those experiments.

00:01:56.960 And we're gonna talk about how you can get started

00:01:59.700 with your own personal life experiments

00:02:01.460 and why you should do that.

00:02:03.640 So it's a great episode, great information,

00:02:05.900 and it's gonna be just a fun conversation,

00:02:07.940 so stay tuned.

00:02:11.560 AJ Jacobs, welcome to the show.

00:02:13.680 Thank you for having me, Brett.

00:02:14.880 Great to be here.

00:02:16.200 So you've sort of made a career for yourself

00:02:18.960 being a human guinea pig.

00:02:21.340 You do these sort of audacious self-experiments,

00:02:24.720 life experiments,

00:02:25.420 and then you write essays for Esquire

00:02:27.500 or you write a book about it.

00:02:29.380 How did you get started with self-experimentation?

00:02:34.240 Yeah, I'm happy to tell it. 1.00

00:02:35.480 First, I wanna kiss your ass for just one second 1.00

00:02:38.200 because I love your website 1.00

00:02:40.800 and I was just looking at it today.

00:02:43.820 I love the chest hair toupee.

00:02:46.300 I mean, that is gold right there.

00:02:49.280 And then you had,

00:02:51.160 you printed recently an essay from 1902,

00:02:55.000 Cosmopolitan, 0.97

00:02:55.820 about sissies, 0.99

00:02:58.780 and it was just crazy and bizarre, 0.99

00:03:01.800 and I agreed with some of it,

00:03:03.800 and I found some of it incredibly offensive,

00:03:06.540 but it was wonderful to read.

00:03:08.620 Well, I appreciate it, 0.98

00:03:09.340 and I gotta return to the ass-kissing 0.98

00:03:11.600 because I've been a big fan of your work 0.98

00:03:13.420 and Esquire and just your books.

00:03:15.600 I think it's, man,

00:03:16.240 how long have you been doing it?

00:03:16.820 I think I've been reading your stuff

00:03:17.880 since like high school.

00:03:18.740 I don't wanna make you feel old or anything,

00:03:21.000 but I think I might've been doing that, so.

00:03:24.140 Well, that is fine.

00:03:25.440 That makes me feel not old,

00:03:27.340 but why has that.

00:03:29.040 Yeah, there you go.

00:03:29.740 Trying to spin it.

00:03:30.960 Yeah, so I've been doing these experiments on myself

00:03:34.860 for years.

00:03:37.180 Mostly they're self-improvement.

00:03:39.000 I need a lot of improvement,

00:03:40.340 and I think one of my inspirations

00:03:43.200 was this writer named George Plimpton,

00:03:45.480 who was a journalist like in the 70s, 60s, 70s, 80s,

00:03:49.480 and he would always do,

00:03:51.780 he would dive in and immerse himself in his stories,

00:03:55.280 so he joined a baseball team

00:03:57.140 and a football team professional

00:03:58.720 and played along with them.

00:04:00.380 He got hit in the face by a professional boxer.

00:04:03.760 I don't like getting hit in the face,

00:04:06.200 but I like the idea of immersing yourself,

00:04:09.480 so I decided I'm going to try to do this

00:04:13.480 with every topic I do,

00:04:15.960 so if I want to learn about the Bible,

00:04:19.180 I'm going to try,

00:04:19.980 I decide to spend a year living

00:04:22.080 by all the rules of the Bible.

00:04:24.060 If I want to learn about health,

00:04:25.540 I'm going to try to follow

00:04:26.480 all the medical advice in the world,

00:04:28.240 so that's sort of the genesis of it.

00:04:31.360 All right, and how do you decide

00:04:33.420 which experiments you're doing?

00:04:34.600 So you've talked about,

00:04:35.160 you've done the living a year biblically

00:04:38.480 where you followed all the rules.

00:04:39.960 You grew a beard,

00:04:40.980 you wore like a white linen,

00:04:43.820 I don't know what you would call that.

00:04:46.540 It's almost a skirt,

00:04:47.940 the way you describe it.

00:04:50.280 It was a robe.

00:04:50.900 A robe, there you go.

00:04:51.720 That's a more manly, right?

00:04:53.300 That's right.

00:04:53.960 Way to describe it.

00:04:55.120 Now you're doing...

00:04:55.720 Although I think,

00:04:56.500 I have heard the manly version of a skirt

00:04:58.480 is a skort.

00:04:59.580 A skort.

00:05:00.200 I've seen those.

00:05:01.640 Yeah, something like that.

00:05:02.580 It's like a utility skort.

00:05:04.340 Something like that.

00:05:04.980 Something like that.

00:05:06.180 So how do you decide?

00:05:07.140 I mean, it's just like you see something

00:05:09.020 or you read about something.

00:05:10.280 You're like,

00:05:10.660 you know what?

00:05:10.880 That's really interesting.

00:05:11.700 I'm going to go for that.

00:05:12.500 Or are these things you've always wanted to do?

00:05:14.740 Or are they things that sort of come up in conversation

00:05:16.980 and you think,

00:05:17.440 hey, that would actually be a great experiment to try out?

00:05:21.520 Most of it,

00:05:22.200 it's got to be something I'm passionate about

00:05:24.120 and I really want to learn about.

00:05:25.540 Like with the Bible, 0.91

00:05:27.460 I really wanted to learn about,

00:05:29.060 I knew nothing about religion for my whole life.

00:05:31.520 I say in the book,

00:05:32.920 I'm Jewish,

00:05:34.000 but I'm Jewish in the same way

00:05:35.440 the Olive Garden is Italian.

00:05:37.120 So not very.

00:05:39.260 And same with health.

00:05:40.780 I was in terrible shape.

00:05:42.000 So I thought this is the way to learn.

00:05:44.260 And recently I went to a lecture on 3D printing.

00:05:47.840 I don't know if you've heard of 3D printing.

00:05:50.020 Yeah.

00:05:50.440 And I was fascinated.

00:05:51.880 And I was like,

00:05:52.440 how can I dive into that?

00:05:54.340 And my idea was,

00:05:55.700 I'll 3D print everything in my life.

00:05:58.100 My clothes,

00:05:58.760 my furniture,

00:05:59.800 my toothbrush.

00:06:01.800 And it turned out,

00:06:03.500 I talked to some experts,

00:06:04.700 that would cost like half a million dollars.

00:06:06.640 So I had to scale back a little

00:06:08.240 and I did the first full 3D printed dinner.

00:06:11.720 So four courses of 3D printed food

00:06:14.720 and all of the forks and knives

00:06:16.580 and my tie was 3D printed.

00:06:19.380 So it's basically whatever is most interesting,

00:06:22.260 I want to explore.

00:06:24.040 And this is how I do it.

00:06:25.240 Wow.

00:06:25.440 So yeah,

00:06:25.720 that 3D printing experiment

00:06:26.840 sounds like you like turned into

00:06:28.120 George Jetson

00:06:29.080 and you'd easily print the food up.

00:06:32.180 That's pretty nice.

00:06:32.520 I felt it was very George Jetson,

00:06:34.840 a little Star Trek thrown in there

00:06:36.520 with a replicator.

00:06:38.080 Yeah,

00:06:38.340 it was fascinating.

00:06:40.500 I mean,

00:06:40.880 it is a wild thing,

00:06:42.340 the 3D printing.

00:06:43.320 I tried to do it myself

00:06:45.020 and my own attempts

00:06:46.060 are very primitive.

00:06:47.840 Like my fork looks like

00:06:49.280 something a chimpanzee

00:06:50.960 would use

00:06:51.600 to get termites out of a hill.

00:06:54.860 But the professionals,

00:06:56.860 these engineers who do it,

00:06:58.440 it's remarkable.

00:07:00.480 Okay,

00:07:00.600 so it seems like

00:07:01.620 just from like

00:07:02.660 just surfing the net

00:07:03.880 and watching the news,

00:07:05.300 it seems like self-experimentation.

00:07:07.320 It's just like,

00:07:08.020 it's like all the rage now.

00:07:09.060 Everyone's like

00:07:09.680 tracking every bodily movement,

00:07:12.320 function,

00:07:12.980 their mood,

00:07:14.240 how productive they are,

00:07:15.900 and they're tweaking things

00:07:17.800 to see if they can improve themselves.

00:07:19.440 I guess it's the whole

00:07:20.100 quantified self movement.

00:07:22.040 Right.

00:07:22.700 And I'm a big fan

00:07:23.620 of the quantified self movement.

00:07:25.000 Yeah.

00:07:25.400 Why do you think

00:07:26.200 it's suddenly become a thing?

00:07:27.600 I mean,

00:07:27.780 why are people

00:07:28.660 measuring and tracking themselves

00:07:30.420 and why are they trying

00:07:31.480 these experiments

00:07:32.260 on their lives?

00:07:34.660 Yeah,

00:07:34.940 it is interesting

00:07:35.740 that it has become a thing.

00:07:37.020 I mean,

00:07:37.200 I saw a few months ago

00:07:38.180 The Onion

00:07:38.760 did a fake article

00:07:41.240 about an app

00:07:42.800 that tracked

00:07:43.820 whenever you pooped 0.58

00:07:45.400 and it would

00:07:46.160 tweet out

00:07:47.540 to all your friends

00:07:48.860 whenever you had

00:07:49.780 a bowel movement

00:07:50.540 and the details.

00:07:51.720 So I think that

00:07:53.000 it's easily mockable

00:07:54.880 but there is

00:07:56.280 a movement toward it.

00:07:58.200 No pun intended.

00:07:59.480 And I think

00:08:00.520 one of the things

00:08:01.600 that appeals to me

00:08:04.780 is that the science says

00:08:06.220 that the more you keep track

00:08:07.620 of things in your life,

00:08:08.880 the more you quantify them,

00:08:10.460 the more healthily

00:08:12.160 you will behave.

00:08:13.880 So just a simple one

00:08:16.200 like getting a pedometer,

00:08:17.860 that will make you walk more

00:08:20.160 because you'll have a goal.

00:08:22.480 Like my goal is

00:08:23.460 10,000 steps a day

00:08:24.860 and I really want

00:08:27.100 to get to it.

00:08:27.880 It gives me a little,

00:08:29.000 it gives me

00:08:29.620 way too much

00:08:31.280 pleasure

00:08:32.720 to get to 10,000 steps.

00:08:34.160 I need to find

00:08:34.840 something more important

00:08:36.180 in my life

00:08:36.820 to be focused on

00:08:37.560 but I love having the goal

00:08:40.360 and I also,

00:08:41.440 I'm very motivated

00:08:42.300 by competition.

00:08:43.340 I think a lot of men are.

00:08:44.460 So I'm on a website,

00:08:46.380 I have a Fitbit

00:08:47.780 which links to my computer

00:08:49.480 and I have friends

00:08:51.360 so I can see

00:08:52.000 how many steps

00:08:52.820 they walked every day

00:08:54.380 and, you know,

00:08:56.500 they can mock me

00:08:57.840 if I didn't get to my goal

00:09:00.960 and I mock them.

00:09:02.060 So it's a lot about

00:09:03.240 humiliating your friends.

00:09:04.920 So I find that

00:09:05.900 very uplifting.

00:09:07.580 Yeah, I got the Fitbit too.

00:09:09.100 I'm really bad about it.

00:09:10.760 I'll let it like

00:09:11.300 lose all of its charge

00:09:12.920 and then I won't do it

00:09:13.820 for a month

00:09:14.440 and then I'll find it again.

00:09:16.400 Like, hey, this is great.

00:09:17.120 I want to do it

00:09:17.960 and then I get off on track.

00:09:20.360 So yeah,

00:09:21.040 I've read those studies too

00:09:22.360 that like when you track things,

00:09:23.900 like another example is money.

00:09:25.860 When you track every cent you spend,

00:09:28.580 you tend to spend less money

00:09:30.100 and you're more wise

00:09:30.860 with your money.

00:09:32.840 Besides that benefit,

00:09:34.140 are there,

00:09:34.840 through your experience

00:09:36.040 doing this whole

00:09:36.680 quantified self thing

00:09:37.920 and self-experimentation,

00:09:39.140 is there a downside

00:09:40.280 personally

00:09:42.100 or maybe even culturally

00:09:43.380 or societally

00:09:44.160 when you have all these people

00:09:46.040 like measuring themselves

00:09:47.360 and sort of being

00:09:48.380 introspective like this

00:09:49.700 and tweaking their lifestyle?

00:09:51.380 Is there a downside to that

00:09:52.260 or is it all positive?

00:09:54.000 Well,

00:09:54.360 I think I have heard

00:09:55.920 a lot of people

00:09:56.740 who have a,

00:09:57.660 find a downside

00:09:58.300 that if you're tracking

00:09:59.600 your weight,

00:10:00.080 for instance,

00:10:00.580 every day

00:10:01.280 and you lose

00:10:01.880 half a pound a day,

00:10:03.420 I mean,

00:10:03.900 if you gain half a pound

00:10:05.060 on Tuesday,

00:10:06.080 like it puts you

00:10:06.720 in a terrible mood

00:10:07.880 for Wednesday

00:10:08.420 and your whole self-esteem

00:10:10.800 is tied

00:10:12.680 to these tiny

00:10:13.660 little changes.

00:10:15.560 That's not the way

00:10:16.600 I work,

00:10:17.400 so luckily

00:10:18.280 it hasn't affected me,

00:10:19.400 but there is that danger.

00:10:22.040 I mean,

00:10:22.300 I think,

00:10:23.580 for me,

00:10:24.260 the positives

00:10:24.820 outweigh the negatives.

00:10:26.560 Like,

00:10:27.080 for instance,

00:10:28.000 there's one other motivation

00:10:29.740 I have with this

00:10:30.600 self-tracking thing

00:10:31.600 is their websites

00:10:33.200 called, like,

00:10:34.260 Charity Miles

00:10:35.020 is one of them

00:10:35.760 and they will,

00:10:38.800 you link up

00:10:40.140 your Fitbit

00:10:40.720 and if you get

00:10:41.920 to a certain number

00:10:43.000 of steps,

00:10:43.740 they will donate money

00:10:44.840 to a charity.

00:10:45.860 They have, like,

00:10:46.520 sponsors who will do that.

00:10:48.200 So, I mean,

00:10:48.880 I love that

00:10:49.540 because if I'm tracking

00:10:51.140 my steps

00:10:51.880 and I don't get

00:10:52.940 to enough steps,

00:10:54.360 you know,

00:10:54.580 I feel like a terrible

00:10:55.440 person.

00:10:56.540 I, like,

00:10:56.940 feel like I'm,

00:10:57.640 you know,

00:10:58.020 because I give money

00:10:58.800 to Haiti

00:10:59.300 through this thing,

00:11:00.800 you know,

00:11:01.100 fresh water to Haiti,

00:11:02.460 so if I'm not walking,

00:11:04.240 then I feel like,

00:11:04.940 you know,

00:11:05.160 God,

00:11:05.700 I'm a terrible, 1.00

00:11:06.440 I'm a bastard. 1.00

00:11:07.460 I am, like, 1.00

00:11:08.260 actually hurting people

00:11:09.480 in Haiti.

00:11:10.160 So,

00:11:10.600 I find that very motivating.

00:11:13.140 Very good.

00:11:14.020 So,

00:11:14.480 let's talk more

00:11:15.020 about some of your

00:11:15.520 specific memoirs

00:11:16.860 and life experiments

00:11:17.620 you've done.

00:11:18.520 We've talked,

00:11:19.060 mentioned several times

00:11:20.000 about your year

00:11:20.480 of living biblically

00:11:21.680 and this is where

00:11:23.240 you live by every

00:11:24.060 jot and tittle.

00:11:25.560 Is that right?

00:11:25.960 Tittle?

00:11:26.580 Tittle?

00:11:26.840 Yeah, sure.

00:11:27.620 Jot and tittle

00:11:27.800 in the Bible.

00:11:29.760 Which I think,

00:11:30.680 I may be wrong.

00:11:32.240 Listeners might want to,

00:11:33.220 the tittle,

00:11:33.920 I believe,

00:11:34.220 is the cross

00:11:35.060 on the T,

00:11:35.620 right?

00:11:35.900 And the jot

00:11:36.420 is the I?

00:11:37.520 Is that right?

00:11:38.080 Or am I making that up?

00:11:38.900 I think you're right.

00:11:40.540 All right.

00:11:40.960 I think that's right.

00:11:41.560 I just throw that out.

00:11:44.680 And one of the,

00:11:45.720 I mean,

00:11:45.940 it's just hilarious.

00:11:46.960 I mean,

00:11:47.120 just sort of the things

00:11:48.380 that happen in it.

00:11:49.260 because it is,

00:11:50.600 it is hard to live

00:11:52.180 all these things

00:11:52.700 in a modern world.

00:11:54.000 But there's a lot

00:11:55.020 of poignant insights

00:11:57.140 that you got

00:11:57.800 from the book.

00:11:58.320 And the one,

00:11:58.920 that one that really

00:11:59.520 hit home for me,

00:12:00.440 and it actually helped

00:12:01.660 me write a blog post

00:12:03.600 on the art of manliness,

00:12:04.460 was this idea

00:12:05.780 as you live these,

00:12:07.840 you're very,

00:12:09.320 as you live these rituals,

00:12:10.580 your idea and attitude

00:12:11.900 towards religion

00:12:13.000 or towards sacredness

00:12:14.740 changed.

00:12:16.280 Yeah.

00:12:16.760 Can you talk a little bit

00:12:17.720 about that experience

00:12:19.100 you had?

00:12:20.700 Oh,

00:12:20.920 that's one of the huge themes

00:12:22.320 I think that runs through

00:12:23.320 all of my experiments

00:12:24.500 all of my life.

00:12:25.300 How much behavior

00:12:26.320 affects your thoughts.

00:12:28.060 How the outer affects

00:12:28.960 the inner.

00:12:29.540 There's a great quote,

00:12:30.420 I wish I had made it up,

00:12:31.320 but it's by the founder

00:12:31.980 of Habitat for Humanity.

00:12:33.240 He says that

00:12:34.340 it's easier to act your way

00:12:37.240 into a new way of thinking

00:12:38.280 than it is to think your way

00:12:39.740 into a new way of acting.

00:12:41.140 So this came about

00:12:41.920 like in the Bible.

00:12:44.200 I would,

00:12:44.760 I would act as if

00:12:46.940 I were a good person,

00:12:48.480 even though,

00:12:49.100 you know,

00:12:49.300 I might not feel

00:12:50.100 like a good person.

00:12:51.180 I might,

00:12:51.580 I had a friend in the hospital.

00:12:52.960 I hate hospitals.

00:12:53.900 I didn't want to go,

00:12:55.140 but I was like,

00:12:55.880 you know,

00:12:56.740 a good person would go.

00:12:58.100 So I would go

00:12:58.720 and it would sort of

00:12:59.400 trick my mind.

00:13:00.480 I'd see I'm in the hospital.

00:13:01.720 Oh,

00:13:02.320 I must be compassionate.

00:13:03.500 And then you become

00:13:04.160 a little more compassionate.

00:13:05.280 And I think that that works

00:13:07.320 in every part of life.

00:13:08.660 It works in writing.

00:13:09.720 You know,

00:13:09.980 if I'm feeling like

00:13:11.120 I don't want to write,

00:13:12.040 I just start moving my fingers

00:13:14.200 and typing whatever crazy talk

00:13:16.140 comes out of my fingers.

00:13:17.220 Like,

00:13:17.580 you know,

00:13:18.240 it can be about the coffee

00:13:20.040 I'm drinking.

00:13:21.020 But,

00:13:21.220 but you get into a rhythm

00:13:23.140 and you sort of trick your mind

00:13:25.140 and it's like,

00:13:25.700 oh,

00:13:25.920 okay,

00:13:26.220 now I'm writing now.

00:13:27.180 I feel more confident.

00:13:28.120 And then you start writing

00:13:29.260 a little bit more coherently.

00:13:31.540 So for me,

00:13:32.960 this is a huge thing.

00:13:34.300 And it's run through

00:13:35.600 several of my experiments.

00:13:37.720 Something as simple as,

00:13:39.000 as the way you,

00:13:40.560 you hold your body.

00:13:42.580 That has a huge effect.

00:13:44.800 I did this experiment

00:13:46.200 on George Washington.

00:13:47.920 He,

00:13:48.120 he had 110 rules of life.

00:13:50.560 You might know as,

00:13:52.680 and so he wrote them down

00:13:54.960 as a young man.

00:13:56.460 My favorite,

00:13:57.240 by the way,

00:13:57.660 is number two.

00:13:58.720 His second rule,

00:13:59.980 this is number two,

00:14:00.720 was do not adjust

00:14:01.980 your private parts in public. 0.77

00:14:03.800 Like,

00:14:04.420 no pocket pool.

00:14:06.200 Well,

00:14:06.400 it seems like

00:14:07.060 it's a good rule,

00:14:07.940 but you know,

00:14:08.320 for number two,

00:14:09.300 it seems a little,

00:14:10.320 maybe,

00:14:10.860 maybe overemphasis.

00:14:12.760 Anyway,

00:14:13.940 one of the things

00:14:15.300 that he was famous for

00:14:16.220 was his posture.

00:14:17.520 He had amazing posture.

00:14:19.140 So I thought I would try that,

00:14:20.840 you know,

00:14:21.240 the shoulders back,

00:14:23.360 chest out.

00:14:24.400 And it actually affected

00:14:25.560 the way I felt.

00:14:26.460 I felt more confident,

00:14:27.620 more energetic.

00:14:28.820 I'm doing it now.

00:14:30.240 And,

00:14:30.760 I'll tell you,

00:14:32.200 he was way ahead of his time

00:14:33.680 because there are

00:14:34.480 Harvard studies now,

00:14:35.660 a lot of them,

00:14:36.160 so that the way

00:14:37.580 you hold your body

00:14:38.480 affects your mood,

00:14:40.020 even your testosterone level

00:14:41.520 if you want to be manly

00:14:43.120 about it.

00:14:43.980 So,

00:14:44.420 and there's a great

00:14:45.520 TED Talk on this,

00:14:46.580 by the way,

00:14:47.040 that's gotten like

00:14:47.780 millions of views.

00:14:49.160 I really recommend it.

00:14:50.620 But it's all about

00:14:51.580 the power position.

00:14:52.760 And just Google

00:14:53.600 TED Talks,

00:14:54.340 Harvard posture,

00:14:55.840 and it'll pop up.

00:14:57.420 Yeah,

00:14:57.520 I think that's such

00:14:58.100 a powerful principle

00:14:58.960 for if people want

00:15:00.820 to make any,

00:15:01.420 like anybody wants

00:15:02.380 to make any improvements

00:15:03.100 in their life.

00:15:03.660 It's just like,

00:15:04.260 I tell people,

00:15:04.880 like,

00:15:04.940 just do it.

00:15:05.500 Just like,

00:15:05.820 start doing it.

00:15:06.640 Because I think a lot

00:15:07.140 of people have this idea

00:15:08.080 is,

00:15:08.700 okay,

00:15:08.900 well,

00:15:09.060 first I have to get motivated.

00:15:10.960 I'll read some

00:15:11.620 inspirational book.

00:15:13.320 And then once I feel

00:15:14.400 motivated,

00:15:14.840 then I'll start

00:15:15.800 doing these things.

00:15:16.960 But like,

00:15:17.340 it doesn't work that way.

00:15:19.100 I mean,

00:15:19.300 No,

00:15:19.680 I agree with you 100%.

00:15:21.520 I mean,

00:15:22.180 you can get,

00:15:23.040 to me,

00:15:23.380 it's like,

00:15:24.140 there can be a vicious cycle

00:15:25.480 or a virtuous cycle.

00:15:27.060 So,

00:15:27.400 the vicious cycle is,

00:15:28.580 you know, 0.99

00:15:28.840 you sit on your butt 0.99

00:15:30.300 and you get depressed 1.00

00:15:31.480 because you're not exercising.

00:15:32.660 And then you get more depressed

00:15:34.660 because when you don't exercise,

00:15:36.580 it affects your mood.

00:15:38.740 So,

00:15:39.080 if you just take that first step

00:15:40.720 and just like,

00:15:41.820 force yourself

00:15:42.600 to do something,

00:15:44.340 then it becomes

00:15:45.140 a virtuous cycle.

00:15:46.380 And you feel better

00:15:47.300 and you're like,

00:15:47.960 more motivated

00:15:48.700 to do something more.

00:15:50.040 And then you feel better

00:15:51.060 and it just becomes

00:15:52.120 a positive feedback loop.

00:15:55.160 Also by The Strenuous Life.

00:15:57.200 The Strenuous Life

00:15:57.800 is an online platform

00:15:58.860 that we created

00:15:59.540 to help you put into action

00:16:00.620 the things we've been writing about

00:16:01.700 on theartofmanliness.com

00:16:02.800 and talking about on the podcast

00:16:04.040 for the past 10 years.

00:16:05.280 And we've done that in a few ways.

00:16:06.400 First,

00:16:06.880 we create a series

00:16:07.480 of 50 different badges

00:16:08.440 based around 50 different skills.

00:16:09.960 There's hard skills

00:16:10.640 like self-defense,

00:16:11.640 willingness survival,

00:16:12.800 orienteering,

00:16:13.660 auto repair.

00:16:14.220 Then there's also soft skills

00:16:15.300 like personal finances,

00:16:16.520 social skills,

00:16:17.160 how to be a better public speaker,

00:16:18.700 better husband,

00:16:19.220 better father.

00:16:19.960 We also provide

00:16:20.720 daily accountability

00:16:21.500 for physical fitness

00:16:22.660 and doing a good deed,

00:16:23.820 helping you think

00:16:24.340 outside of yourself.

00:16:25.320 Then we also provide

00:16:26.160 weekly challenges

00:16:27.000 that are going to push you

00:16:27.700 outside of your comfort zone

00:16:28.720 physically,

00:16:29.760 mentally,

00:16:30.180 and socially.

00:16:30.980 And some of the weekly challenges

00:16:32.740 involve MoveNAT.

00:16:34.180 So if you like the MoveNAT thing,

00:16:35.760 it's interesting to you,

00:16:36.780 well,

00:16:37.120 Strenuous Life will have you

00:16:37.840 doing some of that stuff.

00:16:38.740 If you'd like to know

00:16:39.780 when our next enrollment opens up,

00:16:40.980 which is happening

00:16:41.640 the week of June 15th,

00:16:43.020 but you want to be

00:16:43.440 one of the first to know

00:16:44.540 when enrollment opens up,

00:16:45.440 head over to

00:16:45.980 strenuouslife.co,

00:16:47.380 put your name on our waiting list,

00:16:48.540 we'll send you an email

00:16:49.200 when enrollment opens up.

00:16:50.300 When you sign up,

00:16:50.980 make sure you whitelist our email

00:16:52.500 and your email provider

00:16:53.500 so the email doesn't go to spam.

00:16:55.220 That happens to a few people

00:16:56.220 and they miss out.

00:16:56.920 We've done everything we can

00:16:57.960 to prevent that from going to spam,

00:16:59.240 but take that extra step,

00:17:00.160 whitelist us

00:17:00.700 so that doesn't happen.

00:17:01.840 Strenuouslife.co,

00:17:02.800 hope to see you

00:17:03.480 in the next enrollment

00:17:04.320 the week of June 15th.

00:17:05.780 And now back to the show.

00:17:07.580 Excellent.

00:17:08.320 I'm curious,

00:17:09.240 do you still do any of the habits

00:17:11.000 you picked up

00:17:11.720 in a year of living biblically

00:17:13.300 or did you just discard

00:17:14.560 all of those

00:17:15.340 after you were done?

00:17:16.580 Well, I did discard a lot.

00:17:18.080 I mean,

00:17:18.300 there was like,

00:17:19.100 you know,

00:17:19.300 I shaved my beard

00:17:20.100 and the Bible says

00:17:20.980 you can't have a beard

00:17:21.680 so I had a crazy ZZ top beard.

00:17:24.780 And I did,

00:17:26.400 the Bible says

00:17:27.140 you can't wear clothes

00:17:28.020 made of mixed fibers

00:17:28.920 so I don't do that anymore.

00:17:32.060 You know,

00:17:32.260 I went back to

00:17:33.200 plenty I keep.

00:17:38.360 I mean,

00:17:38.680 one that really had an effect on me

00:17:40.460 was this idea of gratitude

00:17:41.840 because the Bible says

00:17:43.640 you should give thanks.

00:17:44.620 and I was giving,

00:17:48.000 taking that literally.

00:17:48.780 So I was giving thanks

00:17:49.940 all the time.

00:17:51.860 You know,

00:17:52.100 I would press the elevator button

00:17:53.940 and I'd give thanks

00:17:55.020 to the elevator game

00:17:56.380 and I'd get in the elevator

00:17:57.740 and I'd be thankful

00:17:58.480 it didn't plummet to the basement

00:18:00.160 and break my collarbone.

00:18:01.760 And it was crazy.

00:18:02.600 It was a crazy way to live.

00:18:03.920 But it was also wonderful

00:18:05.100 because you realize

00:18:06.460 when you do this

00:18:07.420 that there are hundreds of things

00:18:08.840 that go right every day

00:18:10.040 that we totally take for granted.

00:18:11.860 And we focus on the three

00:18:13.400 or four things that go wrong.

00:18:15.300 So if you can even have

00:18:17.380 a partial mind,

00:18:19.380 a partial shift

00:18:20.720 in your perspective,

00:18:21.720 then you can really start to see

00:18:24.680 how miraculous it is,

00:18:26.500 how much goes right.

00:18:28.040 And I definitely tried to keep that.

00:18:31.320 Very good.

00:18:32.840 Let's talk about your wife 0.98

00:18:34.940 because your wife often 0.99

00:18:36.220 plays a big role

00:18:37.840 in these life experiments.

00:18:39.180 I mean,

00:18:39.320 it's hard not for her to.

00:18:40.900 And some of them

00:18:42.460 involve her directly.

00:18:44.180 Some of them don't.

00:18:45.180 The one that involved her directly,

00:18:46.860 and I think she appreciated it,

00:18:48.160 was the one in your book,

00:18:50.580 My Life as an Experiment,

00:18:51.980 where you tried to be

00:18:53.040 the perfect husband.

00:18:54.800 Yes.

00:18:55.580 Basically,

00:18:56.140 just doing whatever she asked.

00:18:59.280 Yeah,

00:18:59.560 I don't know.

00:19:00.260 Yeah,

00:19:00.580 go ahead.

00:19:01.060 I was just going to say,

00:19:02.020 I mean,

00:19:02.260 it was funny,

00:19:03.640 but

00:19:04.300 did your perspective

00:19:07.020 about marriage

00:19:08.220 and relationships

00:19:08.900 change because of that

00:19:10.460 experiment?

00:19:12.240 Yeah.

00:19:12.740 I mean,

00:19:13.000 the experiment was called

00:19:14.580 Whipped,

00:19:15.320 and the idea was,

00:19:16.700 it was actually suggested

00:19:17.680 by readers

00:19:18.260 because they're like,

00:19:19.340 you've got such a pain 1.00

00:19:20.340 in the ass to your wife. 1.00

00:19:21.620 Why don't you do a month 1.00

00:19:23.780 where you just do everything

00:19:24.780 she says?

00:19:25.800 And so I was her total doormat.

00:19:27.560 Whatever she said, 0.83

00:19:28.460 I did.

00:19:29.200 And it was horrible.

00:19:30.460 It was a horrible month.

00:19:31.920 I can be quite honest.

00:19:32.920 It was like,

00:19:34.080 she was drunk with power. 0.50

00:19:35.700 She was like,

00:19:36.540 you know,

00:19:37.000 Kate Hudson movies

00:19:38.660 were involved.

00:19:39.440 It was just terrible.

00:19:41.300 But yeah,

00:19:42.360 there were takeaways.

00:19:43.560 There were definitely lessons.

00:19:45.920 I mean,

00:19:46.180 one of them,

00:19:46.760 I think,

00:19:47.640 one of them is related

00:19:48.560 to what we were just

00:19:49.340 talking about.

00:19:50.300 I would force myself

00:19:51.700 to buy a present

00:19:52.940 because of the,

00:19:53.760 like a little gift

00:19:54.900 every day

00:19:55.440 because I knew

00:19:56.140 she liked that

00:19:56.800 and that's what she wanted.

00:19:58.360 And it didn't have to be big.

00:19:59.520 It could be like,

00:20:00.280 you know,

00:20:00.580 a little,

00:20:01.920 I don't know,

00:20:02.840 a box,

00:20:03.380 a paper bag,

00:20:04.480 one flower.

00:20:06.340 But just the act

00:20:07.560 of doing that,

00:20:08.740 it made me like,

00:20:09.640 oh,

00:20:09.780 I'm giving a gift

00:20:10.440 to my wife.

00:20:11.860 I must love her.

00:20:13.080 And then you sort of

00:20:14.160 love her more

00:20:14.780 and you convince yourself

00:20:15.780 and it made our relationship

00:20:16.960 better.

00:20:17.340 And of course,

00:20:18.120 she loved it.

00:20:19.200 So it was,

00:20:19.780 again,

00:20:20.260 this virtuous circle

00:20:21.740 where you're nice to her

00:20:23.660 and she's nice to you

00:20:24.740 and it just improves

00:20:26.380 your life.

00:20:28.200 I will say,

00:20:29.120 it did have a,

00:20:30.220 there was one part

00:20:31.420 of that experiment

00:20:32.280 that has a continued

00:20:33.540 negative effect

00:20:34.480 on my life.

00:20:35.460 I mean,

00:20:36.080 our marriage is probably better

00:20:37.460 but my life is worse

00:20:38.500 because we made a list

00:20:39.960 of every household chore

00:20:41.960 that we did

00:20:42.800 and at her demand.

00:20:45.900 And I thought,

00:20:47.120 honestly,

00:20:47.860 I thought I was doing

00:20:48.740 like 40%

00:20:49.680 of the housework

00:20:51.220 and she was doing 60. 0.94

00:20:53.200 The real split

00:20:54.160 was more like 1585.

00:20:57.960 And it was,

00:21:00.120 and once we both saw that

00:21:01.780 on the paper,

00:21:03.240 like,

00:21:03.740 you know,

00:21:04.060 I can never get back

00:21:04.940 to that full 15

00:21:06.080 because she's like,

00:21:07.460 you got to do this,

00:21:08.380 you got to do that.

00:21:09.780 So,

00:21:10.380 I think we are

00:21:11.920 one of our many,

00:21:13.200 many delusions in life

00:21:14.460 and at least mine

00:21:16.340 is that we think

00:21:17.760 we do more

00:21:18.440 than we actually do.

00:21:19.900 Yeah,

00:21:20.480 I've noticed that as well.

00:21:22.660 And I think,

00:21:23.160 yeah,

00:21:24.180 we always overestimate

00:21:25.260 what you do

00:21:26.140 and you always underestimate

00:21:27.340 like what your partner does.

00:21:28.900 Right.

00:21:29.360 That always causes friction.

00:21:31.460 I think that happens

00:21:32.000 in every marriage.

00:21:33.300 Yeah.

00:21:33.720 Because you know

00:21:34.220 what you're doing, right?

00:21:35.060 Like,

00:21:35.280 you know,

00:21:35.740 like,

00:21:36.220 you're keeping track

00:21:36.860 of what you're doing

00:21:37.320 but you're not keeping track

00:21:38.140 of what your wife's doing. 0.94

00:21:39.560 Exactly.

00:21:40.360 I mean,

00:21:40.580 there are things like,

00:21:41.840 like,

00:21:42.240 you know,

00:21:42.800 we have the liquids open.

00:21:44.720 I just figured

00:21:45.640 it refilled itself.

00:21:46.660 I didn't know the bottles.

00:21:48.380 Like,

00:21:48.500 I thought it was like

00:21:49.140 a self-cleaning oven

00:21:50.120 and just refilled

00:21:51.140 and then I was like,

00:21:52.700 oh my God,

00:21:53.620 this is terrible.

00:21:54.660 I have to do it myself.

00:21:57.240 Oh,

00:21:57.600 so let's talk about

00:21:58.220 some of these moments

00:21:59.060 where you're,

00:22:00.460 it was,

00:22:00.660 you were sort of like 1.00

00:22:01.160 a pain in the butt 1.00

00:22:01.800 for your wife 1.00

00:22:02.360 with your,

00:22:02.880 with your experiments.

00:22:05.160 I mean,

00:22:05.640 some of it just like,

00:22:06.300 it was like,

00:22:06.880 you know,

00:22:07.360 you're living biblically.

00:22:09.040 There was lots of moments

00:22:09.860 like that.

00:22:11.620 But any advice?

00:22:12.820 Because I think

00:22:13.700 I've encountered this too

00:22:14.440 where I try these

00:22:14.940 sort of like self-experiments

00:22:16.080 and it's sort of,

00:22:17.720 it sort of bleeds,

00:22:18.880 it sort of gets in the way

00:22:19.900 a little bit

00:22:20.480 of my wife's plans

00:22:21.480 and she gets,

00:22:22.580 she gets sort of frustrated.

00:22:23.980 It's like,

00:22:24.260 do you have to do this?

00:22:25.960 Like,

00:22:26.300 what is going on?

00:22:27.360 Any advice for men out there

00:22:28.700 who are like,

00:22:28.940 you know,

00:22:29.100 I want to try experiments.

00:22:30.240 I want to try to improve myself,

00:22:31.540 but how do I not

00:22:32.700 have that tension

00:22:34.100 or create tension

00:22:35.820 in my,

00:22:36.220 my marriage

00:22:36.860 or relationship?

00:22:38.800 Yeah,

00:22:39.200 that is,

00:22:39.740 it's a challenge.

00:22:40.760 I mean,

00:22:41.720 overall,

00:22:42.120 I think she is,

00:22:43.300 she may not have been,

00:22:44.260 but I think she is happy

00:22:45.560 that I've done

00:22:46.240 these experiments

00:22:46.980 because I do think

00:22:48.020 they've improved me

00:22:48.740 in the end.

00:22:49.280 I,

00:22:49.480 you know,

00:22:50.100 I may have been 1.00

00:22:51.320 a huge pain in the ass 0.99

00:22:52.540 when I was doing 0.99

00:22:53.280 the biblical book.

00:22:54.740 She wouldn't kiss me

00:22:55.660 because of my beard.

00:22:57.680 But I do think

00:22:58.780 that she's happy.

00:23:00.040 I'm more,

00:23:00.400 I'm more grateful now

00:23:01.540 and I do think

00:23:02.700 that I,

00:23:03.380 you know,

00:23:03.820 I covet and gossip

00:23:04.940 and lie less.

00:23:06.520 You know,

00:23:06.740 I still do it

00:23:07.500 a huge amount,

00:23:09.100 but I like,

00:23:10.700 you know,

00:23:10.840 I've cut down 30%.

00:23:12.120 So maybe just tell

00:23:13.640 your partner,

00:23:15.280 you know,

00:23:15.700 it's for the greater good.

00:23:17.140 It will pay off

00:23:18.400 in the end.

00:23:19.260 And also maybe

00:23:20.220 somehow subtly remind her

00:23:22.020 that,

00:23:22.420 you know,

00:23:23.000 it's interesting.

00:23:23.760 It makes life interesting.

00:23:24.760 I once read a short story,

00:23:25.820 I can't remember

00:23:26.240 who wrote it,

00:23:26.780 about a woman

00:23:27.600 who married this guy,

00:23:28.820 a method actor

00:23:29.580 who,

00:23:30.220 you know,

00:23:30.600 he would,

00:23:31.400 she was like,

00:23:32.580 and she loved it

00:23:33.360 because she,

00:23:34.240 every month

00:23:34.680 she'd get a different,

00:23:35.940 she,

00:23:36.160 you know,

00:23:36.380 one day she'd get

00:23:37.200 Stanley Kowalski

00:23:38.100 and the next day

00:23:38.960 she'd get someone else.

00:23:39.880 So maybe,

00:23:41.460 maybe just subtly

00:23:42.320 reminder,

00:23:42.940 it keeps life interesting.

00:23:44.160 Frame it that way,

00:23:44.680 it's good stuff.

00:23:45.760 So you're also a dad

00:23:46.840 and I think it's like

00:23:47.740 you have all boys,

00:23:48.680 right?

00:23:49.420 You wrote an article

00:23:50.220 about like,

00:23:50.860 yeah,

00:23:51.120 I remember a picture

00:23:52.020 of you wrestling

00:23:52.680 your three boys,

00:23:53.940 I think.

00:23:55.440 Yes,

00:23:55.940 exactly.

00:23:56.620 I hope they don't hate me

00:23:57.520 for that one.

00:23:58.180 Yeah.

00:23:58.680 But I mean,

00:23:59.520 have you,

00:24:00.640 with your experiments,

00:24:01.860 have they helped

00:24:02.860 you become a better

00:24:03.500 father in any way?

00:24:05.460 I think so.

00:24:07.100 And I'm trying

00:24:07.840 to think how.

00:24:08.960 Well,

00:24:09.120 I will tell you

00:24:10.180 one example

00:24:11.120 was during the

00:24:13.040 Year of Living Biblically, 1.00

00:24:14.140 the Bible is very,

00:24:15.640 in parts of it,

00:24:16.560 it's very explicit

00:24:18.380 in that you have to

00:24:19.620 do corporal punishment.

00:24:21.220 You have to 1.00

00:24:21.540 hit your kids 0.99

00:24:22.560 and not even just 1.00

00:24:24.100 with your hand,

00:24:24.660 with a stick.

00:24:25.960 You know,

00:24:26.160 do not,

00:24:26.980 spare the rod,

00:24:29.580 foil the child.

00:24:31.360 So I felt I had

00:24:32.980 to do this

00:24:33.460 and

00:24:33.780 it's not my

00:24:36.180 parenting style

00:24:36.740 so I bought

00:24:37.400 a Nerf stick,

00:24:39.420 a Nerf bat

00:24:40.020 so I would 0.99

00:24:41.180 hit my kid 0.99

00:24:42.020 with that 0.62

00:24:42.460 when he was,

00:24:43.180 he was like

00:24:43.620 two years old

00:24:44.260 at the time.

00:24:44.900 He thought it was

00:24:45.540 hilarious so he

00:24:46.540 would go and run

00:24:47.240 and get a wiffle bat

00:24:48.160 and start wailing

00:24:48.980 on me.

00:24:50.000 And I was like,

00:24:50.540 this is not

00:24:51.220 the message

00:24:52.000 I want to send.

00:24:53.160 But I do think

00:24:54.120 maybe it's that,

00:24:55.760 you know,

00:24:57.260 as a model,

00:24:58.380 I think

00:24:58.920 it's important

00:25:00.140 to teach kids

00:25:01.640 that a certain

00:25:03.180 amount of boldness

00:25:04.560 is important

00:25:05.960 in life

00:25:06.620 and that you

00:25:07.260 have to take risks

00:25:08.860 and sometimes

00:25:09.500 you're going to 1.00

00:25:09.980 look like an idiot 1.00

00:25:10.860 and you're going 1.00

00:25:11.580 to fail a lot

00:25:12.500 which I do.

00:25:13.680 I fail a tremendous

00:25:14.660 amount

00:25:15.100 and that

00:25:16.160 you got to be

00:25:17.260 okay with that.

00:25:18.420 That's part of life

00:25:19.820 and so I think

00:25:20.880 maybe that's where

00:25:22.420 the experiments

00:25:23.220 have made me

00:25:23.940 a better father.

00:25:25.100 Very good.

00:25:25.940 Your most recent

00:25:26.940 memoir is

00:25:28.020 Drop Dead Healthy

00:25:28.920 and it's your, 0.65

00:25:30.640 you're trying to be

00:25:31.760 the,

00:25:32.160 like following

00:25:32.660 every bit of

00:25:33.240 medical advice

00:25:33.860 that makes you

00:25:34.340 the healthiest

00:25:34.980 person in the world.

00:25:35.980 In fact,

00:25:36.340 right now

00:25:36.760 you're walking

00:25:37.340 on a walking

00:25:38.560 standing desk

00:25:39.580 treadmill desk.

00:25:41.260 Yes,

00:25:41.560 I do.

00:25:42.020 I love it.

00:25:42.640 I still do that

00:25:43.760 and I am going

00:25:45.820 to break my

00:25:46.260 10,000 today.

00:25:47.520 Nice.

00:25:48.360 Congratulations.

00:25:49.760 Thanks.

00:25:50.320 Any,

00:25:50.700 any,

00:25:51.280 like short tips

00:25:52.600 from that,

00:25:53.240 that experience

00:25:54.040 that guys can do

00:25:55.460 today that will

00:25:56.220 like radically

00:25:56.960 improve their

00:25:58.040 health and well-being?

00:26:00.300 Well,

00:26:00.820 there are some

00:26:01.400 things that

00:26:01.940 that definitely

00:26:02.680 changed my life.

00:26:03.840 I mean,

00:26:03.980 one of them

00:26:04.500 is just moving

00:26:05.540 as much as possible,

00:26:06.880 you know,

00:26:07.260 and,

00:26:08.160 you know,

00:26:08.700 exercise doesn't

00:26:09.520 have to be at the gym.

00:26:10.540 You can just do,

00:26:11.660 you can do,

00:26:12.840 you walk,

00:26:13.460 you can do

00:26:13.780 whatever you love,

00:26:14.640 like,

00:26:14.900 you know,

00:26:15.280 gardening.

00:26:15.960 I don't like gardening.

00:26:17.320 I find it incredibly dull,

00:26:18.680 but some men like it

00:26:21.020 and that's exercise.

00:26:22.180 So,

00:26:22.700 so don't be,

00:26:23.920 don't think of exercise

00:26:24.900 as just a,

00:26:26.380 you know,

00:26:27.120 a compartmentalized hour

00:26:29.740 at the gym,

00:26:30.520 trying to think of

00:26:31.300 your whole life

00:26:32.020 as an exercise.

00:26:34.880 And,

00:26:35.280 and then just,

00:26:37.100 you know,

00:26:37.480 the,

00:26:37.680 the thing about health

00:26:39.100 after this two years,

00:26:41.220 it really,

00:26:42.500 it's really quite simple

00:26:45.300 how to,

00:26:46.700 we all know

00:26:47.480 what behaviors

00:26:48.300 are healthy.

00:26:50.600 The challenge is

00:26:51.700 how do we motivate ourselves

00:26:53.240 to do those behaviors?

00:26:54.240 because it's really

00:26:55.500 the common sense

00:26:58.180 that,

00:26:58.580 you know,

00:26:58.820 eating,

00:26:59.640 eating whole foods,

00:27:01.060 not processed foods,

00:27:02.980 getting sleep,

00:27:04.300 moving as much as possible,

00:27:05.840 not stressing

00:27:06.620 and not smoking.

00:27:10.040 Don't hit yourself

00:27:11.140 in the forehead 0.83

00:27:12.080 with an ax. 0.99

00:27:13.280 You know,

00:27:13.580 these are,

00:27:14.160 it's pretty,

00:27:14.980 pretty clear.

00:27:16.100 People try to make it complicated

00:27:17.660 because that's an easy way

00:27:19.340 to make money

00:27:20.000 if you say,

00:27:20.680 oh,

00:27:20.820 I've got the one secret

00:27:21.940 that's going to give you

00:27:23.220 the eight pack,

00:27:24.260 you know,

00:27:24.780 that,

00:27:25.320 that's not,

00:27:26.340 that's not true

00:27:27.320 and,

00:27:28.120 but it's,

00:27:29.520 but it's a way

00:27:30.260 to make money

00:27:30.820 because they're like,

00:27:31.720 oh,

00:27:31.840 I have a secret.

00:27:33.040 Yeah.

00:27:33.480 So just do simple things,

00:27:34.840 move,

00:27:36.200 relax,

00:27:36.940 and eat whole food.

00:27:38.620 Right.

00:27:39.300 I mean,

00:27:39.720 for me,

00:27:40.260 the secrets are,

00:27:41.420 and actually,

00:27:41.940 I just started writing

00:27:43.100 a column about this

00:27:44.320 for a website

00:27:45.780 called Upwave,

00:27:47.100 upwave.com.

00:27:48.220 And for me,

00:27:48.720 the secret is

00:27:49.400 how do you motivate yourself?

00:27:51.160 Like,

00:27:51.540 what are the tricks

00:27:52.280 and strategies

00:27:52.920 to make yourself

00:27:54.120 do these healthy behaviors?

00:27:56.760 That's to me the key.

00:27:58.300 And that's where I feel

00:27:59.400 I've made progress

00:28:00.700 and studied,

00:28:02.120 you know,

00:28:03.080 found,

00:28:03.880 and they can be,

00:28:05.040 they can be simple,

00:28:07.060 they can be weird,

00:28:07.960 you know,

00:28:08.280 there's the leaving your,

00:28:09.480 leaving your workout

00:28:10.740 closed by the door

00:28:11.860 so that you're reminded.

00:28:13.580 It could be,

00:28:15.020 there are studies

00:28:15.500 that show

00:28:16.020 that when you are

00:28:17.200 thinking about

00:28:19.040 your older self,

00:28:20.300 that you are acting

00:28:22.080 in a more healthy way

00:28:23.120 because you're like,

00:28:24.340 you can't,

00:28:25.400 when you respect yourself,

00:28:27.860 respect others,

00:28:29.400 you should respect

00:28:30.640 your older self.

00:28:31.460 Think of your older self

00:28:32.480 as another person,

00:28:33.640 you know,

00:28:33.880 treat that older self

00:28:35.080 like you would

00:28:35.660 treat a friend.

00:28:37.000 So that,

00:28:37.760 for me,

00:28:38.180 I actually,

00:28:39.340 I took that very literally

00:28:40.720 and I took a photo

00:28:42.420 of myself

00:28:42.940 and I digitally aged it

00:28:44.540 so that I look like

00:28:45.580 I'm like 82

00:28:46.440 and I put it

00:28:48.840 over my desk

00:28:49.940 so that it's like,

00:28:51.620 you know,

00:28:51.940 think about that guy

00:28:53.020 and try to treat him

00:28:53.940 with a little respect,

00:28:55.060 you know,

00:28:55.280 maybe work out

00:28:57.420 or eat healthy,

00:28:58.720 don't have that

00:28:59.340 fourth Oreo

00:29:00.060 because you want him

00:29:01.340 to be around,

00:29:02.580 you want him

00:29:03.080 to be able to see

00:29:03.840 his kids get married

00:29:05.080 and have kids

00:29:05.900 and maybe their kids

00:29:07.380 have kids

00:29:07.940 so to me,

00:29:09.860 that's one of,

00:29:11.080 there are many

00:29:11.660 motivating tricks

00:29:13.320 like that

00:29:14.020 that I write about.

00:29:14.860 Very good.

00:29:15.580 So you just mentioned

00:29:16.120 Upwave.com.

00:29:17.040 I mean,

00:29:17.260 you are the editor

00:29:18.380 at large at Esquire.

00:29:19.580 You've written these books

00:29:20.140 but now you're doing

00:29:20.760 some stuff at Upwave.

00:29:22.140 Can you tell us about

00:29:22.800 what you'll be doing there?

00:29:23.700 Is it more of the same?

00:29:25.280 Is it going to be

00:29:25.680 more health oriented?

00:29:27.000 Is it going to be

00:29:27.880 just sort of a grab bag

00:29:29.240 of different

00:29:29.680 self-improvement things?

00:29:31.320 Yeah,

00:29:31.600 it's a very cool website

00:29:32.760 and platform,

00:29:34.480 not just a website.

00:29:35.140 It's going to be

00:29:35.740 on TV as well

00:29:36.740 and it's all about

00:29:38.620 health and fitness

00:29:39.500 and my current column

00:29:42.420 is called Jumpstart

00:29:43.540 with A.J. Jacobs

00:29:45.300 and that's all about

00:29:47.000 motivational techniques

00:29:48.800 so the ones

00:29:50.800 I just mentioned

00:29:51.560 for instance

00:29:52.220 or another one was

00:29:54.260 oh,

00:29:54.940 I test out some apps,

00:29:56.980 some health apps,

00:29:57.880 see if they work.

00:29:59.000 There's one study

00:30:00.340 that said

00:30:00.760 if you are,

00:30:02.420 if you have

00:30:02.780 background noise,

00:30:05.040 just a little bit

00:30:05.820 of background noise

00:30:06.840 like at a coffee shop,

00:30:07.860 it makes you more creative

00:30:08.820 as opposed to

00:30:09.980 total silence.

00:30:10.720 so you can actually

00:30:11.520 download coffee shop

00:30:13.140 noises

00:30:13.560 from the internet.

00:30:15.400 Coffee,

00:30:15.680 or coffee?

00:30:16.620 Coffeeivity,

00:30:17.100 exactly.

00:30:17.380 Coffeeivity,

00:30:17.820 yeah.

00:30:18.320 Do you use it?

00:30:19.620 I use it.

00:30:20.800 Do you?

00:30:21.200 I have been using it,

00:30:22.440 yeah.

00:30:23.020 I love it.

00:30:24.520 Yeah,

00:30:24.800 so I'll write about that

00:30:26.120 and hopefully

00:30:27.700 I'll be doing

00:30:28.140 a web series

00:30:28.820 later in the year.

00:30:32.480 So yeah,

00:30:33.080 that's the kind of thing

00:30:34.340 but it's a very good website

00:30:35.720 because it covers

00:30:37.360 for the hardcore,

00:30:39.060 the Tough Mudder people

00:30:40.360 but also just the,

00:30:41.820 you know,

00:30:42.180 the people who just want

00:30:43.100 to get a little bit healthy

00:30:44.520 and, you know,

00:30:45.500 be around to,

00:30:47.680 for another,

00:30:48.420 another few decades.

00:30:49.920 Very good.

00:30:50.800 Any future plans

00:30:52.860 for a big life experiments

00:30:54.540 like the year of living biblically

00:30:56.720 or do you have anything

00:30:57.540 up your seat like that?

00:30:58.980 I am working on a new book.

00:31:00.760 I don't know

00:31:01.060 if it's an experiment per se

00:31:02.260 but it's about

00:31:02.860 ancestry

00:31:03.760 and my ancestors,

00:31:07.480 the history of humans

00:31:09.560 and my,

00:31:10.780 for the finale of the book,

00:31:12.060 I'm going to try to

00:31:13.880 hold the biggest family reunion

00:31:15.640 in history.

00:31:17.120 That's going to be awesome.

00:31:17.980 I am hoping so.

00:31:19.520 I am excited

00:31:20.720 and yeah,

00:31:22.420 we've got this guy,

00:31:24.660 Morgan Spurlock

00:31:25.980 who directed

00:31:26.880 Super Size Me

00:31:28.060 who I'm a huge fan of.

00:31:29.720 he wants to produce

00:31:31.960 the documentary about it

00:31:33.140 so that'll be my first documentary

00:31:35.300 and I am quite psyched

00:31:38.220 and I'm trying to find relatives

00:31:39.460 and my idea is that

00:31:40.900 everyone is related.

00:31:41.860 We just have to figure it out

00:31:43.020 so please try to figure out

00:31:44.640 how you're related to me.

00:31:45.940 Sure.

00:31:46.640 I mean,

00:31:46.860 I imagine you checked out

00:31:48.460 23andMe, right?

00:31:50.120 Yes.

00:31:50.740 Yes,

00:31:51.120 they've been hugely helpful

00:31:52.280 and I have thousands of relatives

00:31:54.640 through them.

00:31:55.320 Thank God.

00:31:56.060 I found,

00:31:56.700 I did that

00:31:57.820 and it's sort of bizarre

00:31:58.900 because it's like Gattaca.

00:31:59.820 So for those of you who don't know,

00:32:00.660 23andMe is like

00:32:02.300 you spit into this thing

00:32:03.500 and you send it to this company

00:32:05.280 and they sequence your genome

00:32:07.080 and part of the deal is like

00:32:09.000 they'll tell you

00:32:09.720 if you're related to anybody else

00:32:11.300 who's submitted their DNA as well

00:32:14.040 and I found like a second cousin.

00:32:16.900 So like we share

00:32:18.000 a great, great grandfather.

00:32:20.800 Interesting.

00:32:21.440 So.

00:32:22.260 And did you get in touch

00:32:23.540 with him or her?

00:32:24.180 I got in touch with her

00:32:25.080 and it hasn't gone anywhere though.

00:32:27.700 I'm trying to get information from her.

00:32:29.420 Like, you know,

00:32:29.640 is there anyone else

00:32:31.300 I don't know about?

00:32:32.680 So it's a pretty cool.

00:32:33.620 I'm actually going to be doing a post

00:32:35.240 about that pretty soon.

00:32:36.520 Oh yeah.

00:32:37.120 But it's awesome.

00:32:38.880 I'm going to check

00:32:39.520 and see if we're related.

00:32:40.800 Yeah.

00:32:41.460 Because I did it.

00:32:42.680 I mean,

00:32:42.880 the interesting thing is

00:32:43.860 I made my wife do it 1.00

00:32:45.640 and then we compared

00:32:47.420 and we are cousins.

00:32:49.560 That's crazy.

00:32:50.100 I married my cousin.

00:32:50.860 Yeah, I'm an indie reader.

00:32:52.180 Pretty good about that.

00:32:54.200 All right.

00:32:54.620 So AJ, last question.

00:32:56.680 Any final advice for men

00:32:58.400 who want to get started

00:32:59.600 with self-experimentation?

00:33:02.060 I guess my big,

00:33:03.280 my only piece of advice

00:33:04.720 is it doesn't have to be big.

00:33:06.040 You know,

00:33:06.220 you don't have to spend a year

00:33:08.060 trying to live by the Bible

00:33:09.040 and write a book about it.

00:33:10.020 It can be just little things,

00:33:11.440 you know,

00:33:11.680 trying out new,

00:33:13.640 a different toothpaste

00:33:14.660 every couple of weeks

00:33:16.580 or going a different way

00:33:18.760 to work.

00:33:19.500 And there are studies

00:33:22.420 that show that

00:33:23.600 that is actually good

00:33:24.740 for the brain,

00:33:25.520 you know,

00:33:25.780 trying to create

00:33:26.540 new pathways in the brain

00:33:27.880 and getting away

00:33:29.020 from what they call

00:33:29.800 neural ruts,

00:33:31.380 which are like,

00:33:32.320 you know,

00:33:32.700 the same ruts

00:33:33.360 when you're cross-country skiing

00:33:34.880 and go on the same route.

00:33:36.580 So anyway,

00:33:37.540 you can mix up life.

00:33:38.620 I think it makes it

00:33:40.320 a little more interesting,

00:33:41.800 a little more fun

00:33:42.620 and it's good

00:33:43.760 for your mental health.

00:33:44.800 So little things,

00:33:46.300 don't be,

00:33:47.120 don't think you have to,

00:33:49.440 you know,

00:33:50.380 get a book contract.

00:33:52.020 Great.

00:33:52.920 Well,

00:33:53.200 AJ Jacobs,

00:33:53.700 thank you so much

00:33:54.240 for your time.

00:33:54.780 It's been a pleasure.

00:33:56.180 Oh,

00:33:56.380 my pleasure.

00:33:57.140 I loved it.

00:33:58.000 Our guest today

00:33:58.580 was AJ Jacobs.

00:33:59.520 AJ is the editor

00:34:00.520 at large at Esquire Magazine.

00:34:02.260 He has written several books

00:34:03.580 that you can find

00:34:04.840 on Amazon.com.

00:34:05.900 Just search AJ Jacobs.

00:34:07.320 Highly recommend

00:34:07.960 you go check them out.

00:34:09.300 Just very entertaining reads,

00:34:10.980 but you also learn

00:34:11.560 something from them.

00:34:12.680 And he's also now

00:34:13.820 a contributing writer

00:34:14.860 at Upwave.com.

00:34:16.120 It's a lifestyle,

00:34:17.120 and wellness site

00:34:18.840 that also is going to have

00:34:19.940 a TV channel as well.

00:34:22.100 And AJ's writing about

00:34:23.400 just research he's discovering

00:34:25.620 on how to become

00:34:26.220 more motivated

00:34:27.140 to improve your life.

00:34:29.240 So great content there

00:34:30.280 and go check it out.

00:34:33.780 Well,

00:34:34.380 that wraps up

00:34:35.000 another edition

00:34:35.620 of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:34:37.660 For more manly tips

00:34:38.480 and advice,

00:34:38.960 make sure to check out

00:34:39.760 the Art of Manliness website

00:34:40.980 at artofmanliness.com.

00:34:43.080 And again,

00:34:43.920 if you are enjoying this podcast

00:34:45.320 and you're getting

00:34:45.860 something out of it,

00:34:46.520 I would really appreciate it

00:34:47.860 if you go to iTunes

00:34:48.880 or whatever service

00:34:50.460 you're using

00:34:50.900 to download

00:34:51.520 and listen to the podcast

00:34:52.520 and give us a rating.

00:34:53.980 That would help us

00:34:54.980 reach more viewers

00:34:56.100 and allow us

00:34:57.260 to do more things

00:34:58.160 with the podcast.

00:34:59.060 So I would appreciate

00:34:59.880 that very much.

00:35:00.980 Until next time,

00:35:01.900 this is Brett McKay

00:35:02.560 telling you to stay manly.

00:35:04.640 We'll keep quickly.

00:35:06.700 Bye-bye.

00:35:12.920 Bye-bye.

00:35:13.820 You

The Art of Manliness - April 04, 2014

Episode #53： Experimenting With Your Life With A.J. Jacobs

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript