The Art of Manliness - Escape the Safety Trap

00:00:00.000 We like to think that our personal safety and the safety of our loved ones is something that other people, law enforcement, school administrators, social media moderators will take care of for us.

00:00:20.040 My guest today, Spencer Corson, would say that while this mindset may help us feel safe, it's actually when we feel the most safe that we're in the greatest danger.

00:00:27.140 Spencer, who's a combat veteran and a threat management expert, calls this paradox the safety trap, and he's the author of a book of the same name.

00:00:34.500 Today on the show, Spencer shares the factors that can put us in the safety trap and ways to escape it.

00:00:38.500 We discuss how an avoidance mindset and a reliance on false authority can put us in greater danger, how the run-hide-fight rubric for responding to an active shooter has been misapplied, and how being too polite can get you killed.

00:00:49.360 From there, we turn into ways you can take responsibility for your own safety, including knowing the warning signs that someone may take violent action and staying physically fit.

00:00:56.800 We also discuss what to do if people are sending you potentially threatening messages online.

00:01:01.080 After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash safety trap.

00:01:15.620 All right, Spencer Corson, welcome to the show.

00:01:18.300 Brett, so great to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.

00:01:20.460 So you got a book out called The Safety Trap, A Security Expert's Secrets for Staying Safe in a Dangerous World, and we're going to talk about this today because there's a lot of great insights about personal safety and safety at work.

00:01:31.320 But before we do, let's talk about your background. You are a threat management expert. What does that involve? What type of clients do you have?

00:01:39.520 Yeah, so Corson Security Group is a boutique threat management consulting firm based here in Austin, Texas, and we really do three things.

00:01:49.040 One is your more typical threat assessment work, like, hey, this guy is threatening to kill our CEO or is stalking a public figure or blackmail or something like that.

00:02:00.100 We kind of pride ourselves on helping good people to make bad things better.

00:02:03.400 So there's a myriad of applications and resources at our disposal to sort of manage that bad thing towards its most favorable resolution.

00:02:11.360 And so some of our clients call on us to support them in those endeavors.

00:02:16.480 The second thing we do is physical security and vulnerability reduction assessments.

00:02:22.480 We do a lot of work with big corporations in the IRS 132 field, an IRS 132 who people don't know.

00:02:29.040 So let's say you're like the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world or you're the CEOs of these big global companies, and that company has a security detail that is dedicated to keeping that CEO safe.

00:02:41.040 The IRS has said that if you have an independent auditor come in and look at your program and make the recommendation that, yes, this person has legitimate security concerns, they are what we would consider to be an at-risk individual.

00:02:55.340 Therefore, that security program is not a perk, but it's a requirement.

00:02:59.380 And if the organization can prove that through this assessment process, then that CEO is not responsible for the tax liability of that protective service.

00:03:10.380 So it can be a very financially beneficial process for the CEO to legitimize what it is they're doing and the mission on which they are engaged.

00:03:20.280 And then the third thing I do is litigation support and expert witness testimony in lawsuits where security was negligent or premises liability, where they didn't have the safeguards in place to keep people safe when they came into their bar, their restaurant, their stadium, their club.

00:03:36.640 We see a lot of this with, you know, like the live nation lawsuit that's going on right now with the Travis Scott show down in Houston.

00:03:44.140 We see it with, if there's any kind of like shootings at stadiums or events and things of that nature, my firm will sometimes get called in or I will be personally asked to look at the facts, look at the policy and procedures that were on the page.

00:03:59.900 Look at the best practices that are in place, you know, throughout the security industry as a whole, and then compare and contrast them to see if, you know, hey, they did do the right thing or hey, here's where they were negligent.

00:04:10.920 Well, how did you make this your career?

00:04:12.980 You know, it's interesting.

00:04:14.060 I say, like I say in the book, you know, being a protector is a craft I've honed my entire life.

00:04:18.240 I started my career in the military.

00:04:20.980 I was a airborne ranger with the 82nd Airborne.

00:04:23.540 And then from there, I was a specially deputized U.S. Marshal with the State Department.

00:04:28.760 And then I got recruited into Gavin DeBecker and Associates.

00:04:32.420 And I was doing a lot of work with high net worth individuals and celebrities and luminaries of all creed and color.

00:04:39.960 But then the tragedy at Sandy Hook really had a dramatic impact on my life because my parents were both teachers.

00:04:48.080 I have family and friends who are teachers.

00:04:49.720 My uncle's a superintendent.

00:04:51.700 And I had a lot of family and friends like reaching out to me being like, hey, like, what do we do?

00:04:55.520 Are we next?

00:04:56.060 Is this something that that we should be concerned about?

00:04:58.960 And I realized in that moment that while my particular skill set was being made readily available to, you know, the top 1% that the other 99%, you know, most of us will never know the luxury of having our own security detail, but every single one of us deserves to be protected.

00:05:14.240 And so I wanted to find a way that I could disseminate that experience and that outlook and that professional capability that I had, but make it readily available for the other 99%. 0.85

00:05:25.520 And the book wound up being the ultimate culmination of that mission.

00:05:31.060 Okay.

00:05:31.120 So let's talk about the book.

00:05:31.840 The book's called The Safety Trap.

00:05:33.040 And this is a phrase you coined to describe the following paradox.

00:05:36.880 You are the most in danger when you feel the most safe.

00:05:40.500 Can you give us some examples of the safety trap that you see play out over and over again with people?

00:05:46.660 How I kind of explain the safety trap is that sometimes feeling safe is the most dangerous thing we do.

00:05:50.980 Because what happens is when we feel safe, our vigilance goes down.

00:05:58.740 And the more our vigilance goes down, the more our risk goes up.

00:06:03.500 We have a tendency as individuals, and I think even as a nation, to sort of live our lives on the fringe of this pendulum, which swings back and forth between hypervigilance and complacency.

00:06:17.900 We're either saying, hey, nothing is going to happen, or we're patting down grandma as she's walking into the ballpark.

00:06:24.540 And the truth is, is that all most of us really need to stay safe is a healthy sense of skepticism and a moderate dose of vigilance and understand that safety is not an endpoint.

00:06:37.900 It's a journey.

00:06:38.620 It's an ever-evolving process that requires our individual participation, because at the end of the day, you are responsible for keeping you safe.

00:06:48.840 Yeah, I think a good example of that pendulum swinging you were talking about is when a mass shooting happens, a few days after it, people are feeling really worried.

00:06:59.520 So they become really vigilant and focusing on situational awareness when they're out and about.

00:07:05.360 But then like a week later, they're back to being just as complacent as before.

00:07:09.380 Well, even think about it in terms of when COVID hit, and all of a sudden, it was really hard to get groceries, it was really hard to get deliveries to the house.

00:07:20.000 And most people didn't have on-hand resources to last them more than a day or two.

00:07:25.780 And so a lot of people were like, oh, okay, when this is all done, I'm going to make sure that I'm more fortified.

00:07:30.900 And people were stockpiling toilet paper and hand sanitizer and paper towels and what have you.

00:07:38.420 But then things kind of returned to normal, and now everyone's kind of back to where they were again.

00:07:43.520 But can you imagine if that were to happen again, people would be most often right back to where they were in that same situation?

00:07:50.480 Because complacency has just, it almost always just sets back in and puts us right back at risk.

00:07:58.020 Because like I say, the more safe we feel, the more our vigilance goes down, which allows for the risk profile to increase.

00:08:06.660 So throughout the book, you do a really good job of breaking down the factors that can make us feel complacent and which can contribute to the safety trap.

00:08:15.400 And the first behavior that you talk about is avoidance.

00:08:18.780 And this is an example of someone sees something that they're like, okay, something's wrong there.

00:08:24.840 But then they just don't do anything about it.

00:08:26.700 Like why, I think everyone's had that instance where they don't feel good about something or someone and they just sort of like, oh, well, I'm going to ignore that.

00:08:33.140 And then it ends up being a problem down the line.

00:08:35.980 Why do we do that?

00:08:38.540 So it starts as when we're children, right?

00:08:41.360 We're confronted with something and we don't have the skill set or the outlook or the experience to either comprehend what's happening.

00:08:48.780 Or we don't have the tools or resources to negotiate what's happening.

00:08:53.040 And so we wait for our parents to come and kind of explain it to us what's going on.

00:08:57.940 It's very easy as we get older to simply adopt that same framework where, oh, if I just don't think about it, it will go away.

00:09:05.020 Or this will be someone else's problem.

00:09:07.160 And so what happens is we allow that problem to fester and to grow and to become more of a crisis.

00:09:17.000 And it's one of those things where if you don't address today's concerns, you're going to be forced to face tomorrow's crisis.

00:09:23.920 And while we may have to get out of our comfort zone to address that initial whatever it is that makes us feel uneasy, that teaching tool, that starting small and building strong approach will provide the skill sets and the confidence and the outlook and the perspective necessary for you to address more problems as you move forward.

00:09:49.380 Because no one fears that which they know well.

00:09:51.560 And once you are in a position where you gain the confidence of overcoming or negotiating a certain obstacle, you're kind of looking for that fundamental line between challenge and difficulty.

00:10:04.640 And the more that you allow yourself to keep moving up that vertical, the more skilled and the more prepared and the more aware you will be to avoid avoidance in the future.

00:10:16.300 Okay, so it's a skill that you practice, avoiding avoidance.

00:10:20.260 So another factor that can lead to complacency and create a safety trap is this reliance on false authority.

00:10:26.740 What do you mean by false authority?

00:10:28.780 False authority is when people are presumed to be subject matter experts but are not.

00:10:38.360 And we see this a lot with schools, we see this a lot with stadiums, we see this a lot with airports where, I'll use the stadium example, where you have a lot of people making minimum wage, standing around, and they have the skill set to take your ticket and tell you where your seat is or maybe direct you to where the bathroom is.

00:11:01.200 But not much else.

00:11:31.200 So if you put your faith and confidence in those people and you follow their instruction, you're kind of putting yourself at a disadvantage because when it comes to anyone outside of your immediate household or people who you know are truly subject matter experts in their field,

00:11:53.500 you always want to take into consideration is the instruction that they are giving you in your best interest or in theirs because in most cases it's going to be in theirs.

00:12:05.540 We see this in schools with the whole run, hide, fight philosophy, which in its initial inception is a brilliant concept where it was originally intended as a military application where pilots, special operators who were shot down behind enemy lines or were captured, if they had the ability to escape, the enemy would escape.

00:12:29.940 And they would run as far away as far away as they could towards friendly forces.

00:12:33.740 And then if they got too tired to keep moving, they would hide, they would camouflage themselves until they were able to get their energy back and then they would keep moving.

00:12:42.260 But if they were to be confronted by the enemy again, they were to fight like their life depended on it because it most surely did.

00:12:49.340 But then when we take that same application and we overlay it into something like a school or a workplace, we are not telling them at the sound of gunshots, put as much time and distance between you and the threat as possible.

00:13:03.120 What we are telling them is to run to their hiding spot and life and death is not a game of hide and seek.

00:13:09.800 And so when I talk about the false authority of things, you really need to take into consideration the very real dichotomy between accountability and survivability.

00:13:24.480 Okay, so what you're saying is that run, hide, fight, it's a good rubric if you're looking at it like, you know, run away from the shooter, get out of the building, get to a safe haven as far away from the shooter as possible.

00:13:36.740 And then only hide if, you know, you absolutely can't run away.

00:13:42.280 But what schools and workplaces have done is that they take in this rubric and say, yeah, run, but run to your hiding spot in the building.

00:13:51.260 You know, you should shelter in place.

00:13:53.000 So the reason that schools preach run to your hiding spot versus like run, hide, fight is because they are responsible for the children at that school while it is during school hours.

00:14:08.800 What they don't want is for all of those kids to scatter and put as much time and distance between them and the threat as possible, but then not know where those kids are.

00:14:16.860 As if those kids were going to come back and sit in a classroom an hour later.

00:14:20.580 So what the methodology should be is every parent should have the ability to instruct their kid that in the event of an active shooter, every parent should have a safe haven identified for their child to go to.

00:14:32.460 So that if something does happen, they're not worried about a family reunification thing at the school.

00:14:36.560 They know exactly where their kid is and they can go and collect them.

00:14:39.080 And we even see this with police departments.

00:14:41.640 We saw this most recently with Vivaldi, where the police don't have a responsibility to personal safety.

00:14:48.200 Their responsibility is to the public safety.

00:14:51.080 And so they were very happy to keep that threat contained within that classroom, because if it was contained within that classroom, they didn't have to worry about it extending out into into the community.

00:15:03.860 Because a lot of people believe that this whole to protect and serve is a bylaw, and it's not.

00:15:11.320 It's a motto.

00:15:12.660 The police, and this has been Radio Lab, did a great episode on this not too long ago entitled No Special Duty, where the police really do not have any responsibility to protect an individual from the actions of a third party.

00:15:30.280 But what they do have a responsibility to perform is to keep the public at large protected from that bad actor.

00:15:38.740 And that's often why you see them say, you know, this is why they often triumph the shelter in place versus evacuate.

00:15:47.020 A fire in a building is just as violent and unpredictable as an active shooter, but we wouldn't hide from a fire in hope it wouldn't find us.

00:15:56.520 We would run.

00:15:57.040 Yeah, that's something that a big takeaway I took from the book, because you hammer this home.

00:16:01.660 It's like the whole run, hide, fight.

00:16:03.280 As you said, it's been misapplied and misunderstood.

00:16:06.740 Your best bet, if you're ever, you know, God forbid you ever found yourself in this situation, is just to run.

00:16:11.220 Put as much distance between you and the perpetrator as possible.

00:16:14.880 Correct.

00:16:15.380 You are your own authority in a life and death situation.

00:16:18.260 No one can tell you what to do.

00:16:20.080 No one has the authority to tell you that you have to stay.

00:16:22.480 Even if you are at a movie theater and something happens and, you know, the manager of the movie theater comes in and says, hey, everyone, we're going to stay here.

00:16:31.000 He has no authority to, like, he can, he certainly has the right to say, hey, we're going to stay here.

00:16:37.260 But you have no responsibility to abide by his directive.

00:16:41.000 That's false authority.

00:16:42.060 That's the false authority I'm talking about.

00:16:43.780 And what I want every person who has read my book or who hears my voice or who has ever had any interest in ensuring the certainty of their own safety is that when moments matter most, you are your own authority.

00:16:59.340 And this applies to not outside of active shooter situation.

00:17:02.220 If there's a fire in the building, you're probably going to have some person at the office saying, evacuate here, you know, fall in this orderly fashion.

00:17:10.040 And it might be the thing you probably shouldn't do because that's just going to lead you to harm instead of getting away from harm.

00:17:16.340 Well, exactly.

00:17:16.880 Like, let's look at the whole, the bomb threat scenario or the fire drill scenario.

00:17:22.440 Like, if a building was really on fire, are you really going to stand in the parking lot and watch it burn?

00:17:27.500 Because do you know how hot that building would have to be in order for it to be on fire?

00:17:32.020 Just go home.

00:17:33.300 And I think this is hard for people to overcome this, the false authority thing.

00:17:37.360 Because they, people are afraid to go against, to buck the system, right?

00:17:41.520 So, well, if I, if I don't follow the protocol, I'm going to get fired.

00:17:44.140 Or kids are like, well, it's the teacher.

00:17:45.600 And if I don't, I'm going to get suspended if I don't.

00:17:47.760 But as you said, survivability is more important.

00:17:50.260 That's, that's a priority.

00:17:51.720 Right.

00:17:51.860 And that's why, I mean, I have a whole section in the book about, you know, being too polite.

00:17:54.880 And what that ultimately comes down to is your willingness to be disagreeable.

00:17:59.380 And being disagreeable does not mean you are bucking the system just for the, for the sake of being disgruntled. 1.00

00:18:07.780 But it's about speaking truth to stupid. 1.00

00:18:10.800 Okay. 1.00

00:18:11.240 I understand why this policy is in place, but who authored this policy?

00:18:16.140 What was their intent?

00:18:17.360 What was their direction?

00:18:18.720 Because a lot of times what you had was, especially like right after 9-11 with, where every security consultant

00:18:23.260 was just the janitor that had the most keys.

00:18:25.800 And so people just assumed that these people knew what they were talking about.

00:18:30.000 Schools invested all of this money into keeping things protected.

00:18:33.840 I mean, listen, every time there's a school shooting, what do you hear?

00:18:36.640 Other than like the mental health versus gun debate, schools are always talking about, oh,

00:18:40.640 we need to make these hard targets.

00:18:42.820 We need to make sure that these bulletproof blackboards and, and hardened doors and all of

00:18:48.420 these things.

00:18:48.880 But the reality is, is that in rare exception, Sandy Hook was an exception.

00:18:54.420 And this most recent Uvalde shooting was an exception, a very high percentage, I would

00:18:59.100 say like nine out of 10 times, those who attack schools and those who attack workplaces are

00:19:04.940 insider threats, not outside actors.

00:19:08.120 And what you have on the pathway to violence is, you know, someone who, and the reason students

00:19:14.560 attack schools and employees attack their workplaces, because that's where the grievance is usually

00:19:18.940 first manifested, where the ideation that they can do something about it is first realized,

00:19:24.980 where the research and planning to carry out that act can be disguised as part of their

00:19:30.160 everyday routine, where they don't need to breach any security because they're supposed

00:19:35.720 to be there.

00:19:37.120 And so you really don't know what they're doing until, you know, the shots ring out.

00:19:43.220 And in most cases, what you have is, you know, the New York Times and the Washington Post and

00:19:49.200 a few others have been championing this statistic most recently about how few of these active

00:19:55.020 shooters suffer from mental illness.

00:19:56.960 And that's true.

00:19:58.020 Most of them were not bipolar.

00:20:00.200 Most of them were not schizophrenic.

00:20:02.040 But just because they didn't have a diagnosed mental illness does not mean they were not suffering

00:20:07.680 from a mental health concern, where they didn't have the emotional intelligence to ask for help.

00:20:13.660 Or the, you know, we saw during being locked down in COVID during isolation, the mental health

00:20:20.560 concerns escalate, alcoholism escalated, domestic violence and intimate partner violence grew

00:20:26.680 exponentially.

00:20:27.220 And a lot of times when you have people who are disenfranchised, who are, who are being

00:20:33.420 bullied, who are being neglected at home, and then they act out in school or in work and

00:20:40.000 the response is punitive.

00:20:41.880 And, you know, you have some child who is then put in detention and is told, sit here and

00:20:46.080 don't talk because listen, we don't want to have to deal with you either.

00:20:48.780 It just exacerbates that problem because when you don't have someone who has the emotional

00:20:54.280 intelligence to ask for help, they are often acting out in ways that they seek attention.

00:21:00.460 And when those cries for help go unanswered, most often those gunshots are, can you hear

00:21:06.840 me now?

00:21:08.300 We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.

00:21:12.300 And now back to the show.

00:21:14.220 So you mentioned earlier this process that internal threats go through.

00:21:18.780 Before they actually do the attack.

00:21:21.140 So you mentioned, usually there's a grievance involved.

00:21:23.500 Yeah, always a grievance involved.

00:21:24.680 Oh, yeah, always a grievance involved.

00:21:26.080 In fact, when I'm doing a threat assessment, if someone says like, you know, hey, F you, 0.99

00:21:30.680 I hope you die or blah, blah, blah. 0.99

00:21:32.000 The first thing we're looking at is a grievance. 1.00

00:21:33.660 Like, why is that?

00:21:35.300 You know, is someone who, you know, hey, I used to be your biggest fan, but now I hate 0.55

00:21:40.060 you.

00:21:40.460 Oh, well, what was the, what was the pivot point?

00:21:42.180 Because now there's a grievance.

00:21:43.440 Now that's something we want to take seriously versus, you know, someone on the left who always hated

00:21:47.480 someone on the right or someone on the right who always hit someone on the left or where

00:21:50.520 it's just, it's just disruptive rhetoric rather than predatory behaviors.

00:21:54.680 But you're, one of the first things you're looking for is the recognition of a grievance.

00:21:58.980 All right.

00:21:59.160 Grievance.

00:21:59.460 So this could be if a kid, you know, gets picked on at school, bullied at work, guy gets,

00:22:04.340 gets fired or looked over for a promotion or something like that.

00:22:07.560 100%.

00:22:07.960 Okay.

00:22:08.400 So that's the first step.

00:22:09.280 Then it's ideation.

00:22:10.660 What is that?

00:22:11.180 So ideation is basically, they're, they're coming to the terms that they have a way to

00:22:16.500 resolve that grievance, whether that be through blackmail or whether that be through violence

00:22:21.580 or whether that be through, you know, some kind of like a smear campaign, but basically

00:22:26.160 they have in their mind come up with what we consider to be like a reasonable plan for

00:22:32.500 how they can resolve that grievance, how they can displace that angst that they are feeling

00:22:36.960 onto someone else.

00:22:37.840 And you said in this process, oftentimes these people, they have leakage where they kind

00:22:42.800 of leak out their intentions, correct?

00:22:45.860 100%.

00:22:46.420 So basically what you're seeing here is the, you see this most in the research and planning

00:22:52.500 phase.

00:22:53.420 So the number one factor of any target selection is likelihood of success.

00:22:58.480 And the only way to know if, if your success is likely is through research and planning, you

00:23:05.120 know, so maybe you're, you're probing defenses or, so let's say you at work have a badge and

00:23:10.380 your badge, you know, gets you into the front door and it gets you into the parking garage

00:23:13.800 and it gets you into your office and it gets you into the break room.

00:23:16.620 But let's say that you now have a grievance with your boss.

00:23:19.380 Well, does your badge also get into his office?

00:23:22.200 And so you try it and maybe you don't get in, but then does anyone say like, Hey, why did

00:23:26.480 you try to get into his office?

00:23:27.720 Or can you get in?

00:23:29.220 And then still nobody says, well, now, you know, you have access to his office, right?

00:23:32.860 So you now, this is part of like the research and planning phase.

00:23:36.120 So even though that person did not, you know, directly communicate with someone else, there

00:23:41.480 were systems and strategies in place that could alert the organization that this person

00:23:45.940 is acting outside of his normal behavioral routine.

00:23:50.440 And so when we talk about leakage, what we're really talking about is what are the behavioral

00:23:54.580 anomalies that are outside of normal operating behavior is, is Bob typically a meek and mannered

00:24:01.500 person.

00:24:01.800 And now all of a sudden is in the break room, slamming drawers shut and breaking dishes and

00:24:06.560 mumbling this place like under his breath.

00:24:08.960 Well, maybe you want to ask Bob, is that if everything's okay, or at least tell someone

00:24:13.360 that, you know, Bob's not doing too well.

00:24:15.220 What they're also looking for is they will very rarely express their grievance to the source

00:24:22.360 of their grievance.

00:24:23.060 What they will often do is try to team build.

00:24:26.400 So Bob has a problem with Bert, may not go to Bert and get in Bert's face, but he may

00:24:32.940 go to Ernie and be like, how are you friends with Bert? 1.00

00:24:36.080 What an asshole, right? 1.00

00:24:37.620 And so Ernie, if he hears that, but then also hears Bob in the break room acting all disruptive, 1.00

00:24:42.880 now you're starting to see a pattern in practice that could be indicative of harm.

00:24:47.120 And the thing is, is maybe Bob is not on a pathway to violence, but maybe, maybe Bob is, you know,

00:24:53.380 having problems at home or is dealing with something else.

00:24:55.800 And this other thing with Bert was just sort of like the tipping point.

00:24:59.960 But if you get to Bob early enough, you can not only help him with the underlying grievance,

00:25:04.720 but you can help him course correct that pathway to violence to toward a much more peaceful

00:25:09.780 resolve.

00:25:10.240 Gotcha.

00:25:10.960 Okay.

00:25:11.220 So just to, we have grievance ideation, then you have research and planning.

00:25:15.020 We talked about that and then the breach, and that's when they start bringing stuff

00:25:18.240 in.

00:25:19.200 Or that could be, that could even be during the research and planning.

00:25:22.300 So the breach would really only be if they needed to bypass some kind of security measure

00:25:29.580 where they shouldn't have.

00:25:32.180 You know, sometimes a breach isn't, you know, some ninja coming down, you know, on a, like

00:25:37.360 a Tom Cruise Mission Impossible movie, like through a skylight or kicking in a back door.

00:25:41.940 Sometimes it's just, they, they know where the, where the vulnerabilities already exist and

00:25:47.280 they know how to exploit them.

00:25:48.700 Now, sometimes you may see this where an employee at work will start like stockpiling weapons or

00:25:54.700 hiding things around that, you know, there are, they aren't supposed to have or, but basically

00:25:59.580 what you have is this is really the last chance that an organization has to identify a bad

00:26:06.980 actor, that someone's about to do something bad.

00:26:10.920 Oh, let's talk about another contributing factor to the safety trap, and that's physical

00:26:14.620 fitness.

00:26:15.200 What's going on there?

00:26:16.380 Physical fitness is not only is it going to be a very important part of keeping yourself

00:26:26.160 safe, but it's also going to have a direct benefit to reducing your anxiety and or depression.

00:26:35.700 Our bodies are basically like batteries that have to exert so much energy every day.

00:26:42.500 And if we are not exerting that energy in through some kind of physical exercise or exertion or,

00:26:50.620 or things of that nature, that energy only has one place to go.

00:26:55.060 And it's typically going to go to anxiety or depression.

00:26:59.540 So the constant upkeep of our physical fitness, you know, the motion is lotion is one of the

00:27:07.980 first steps to just keeping our own like mental health and sense of self in check.

00:27:13.480 And another thing is that keeping physically fit provides three core functions of protection.

00:27:19.420 One is that it enables you to keep yourself protected to it enables you to keep your, your family

00:27:28.380 protected.

00:27:28.860 And three, it would allow you to help keep your community protected.

00:27:32.460 And, you know, the example I give in the book is that people have a tendency to believe that in an emergency

00:27:40.780 situation, they will exceed expectation.

00:27:45.400 And the reality is, is that you're going to default to your like lowest common practice.

00:27:51.200 So if you have never had to run 50 feet, a hundred feet, 500 feet down a hallway, and I mean, sprint

00:27:58.940 like your life depends on it, you may be afraid of that run and you may choose instead to hide.

00:28:05.680 And that hiding instead of flighting could be a real difference between life and death.

00:28:12.120 So your physical fitness is what gives you the confidence to know that you can perform under

00:28:18.400 duress when needed, which is why you see, you know, soldiers and you see elite athletes.

00:28:23.740 They're always trying, they're constantly trying to push themselves because like much like the

00:28:28.820 avoidance factor, no one fears that which they know well.

00:28:32.660 And once you become comfortable being uncomfortable, you are setting yourself up not just for personal

00:28:40.080 success, but you are having a drastic increase on the certainty of your future safety.

00:28:48.360 How has overprotecting our kids created safety traps?

00:28:51.680 One of the things I talk about in the book is that parents love to champion this stranger danger

00:28:56.160 philosophy. But what I often advocate for is, no, stranger danger is a one-way street.

00:29:02.080 While it is wildly inappropriate for an adult to ask a child for help,

00:29:08.580 it is perfectly acceptable for a child alone and afraid and in need of support to ask an

00:29:14.880 adult for help. And parents were like, well, I don't want my kid going up and like asking

00:29:19.380 some possible abductor like for help. I'm like, well, you're listen, children have an innate

00:29:23.740 sense of right and wrong. Like they're not going to go up and ask for help from someone who makes

00:29:28.680 them feel uncomfortable, but they will feel comfortable going up and asking for help from

00:29:34.440 someone that they feel comfortable asking for help from if they have your permission to do so.

00:29:39.920 And one of the things I champion is food flags and families. If you see someone who is, you know,

00:29:45.620 a hot dog vendor or an ice cream truck or a restaurant or a Starbucks or a McDonald's or whatever,

00:29:51.840 you know that that is a place where, you know, that's been vetted. That's that has the permits

00:29:57.240 place with food is a place that your child should feel comfortable going and asking for help.

00:30:02.400 Same thing with families. If you see an adult with other children, whether that's a parent or

00:30:08.040 a nanny or a babysitter, or you just see a bunch of children with a couple adults standing around

00:30:12.800 them like in a park, those are people your child should feel comfortable going to and asking for

00:30:17.480 help and flags. If you see a flag in front of a building or on a uniform or on a bag or a patch or

00:30:25.440 on the side of a car, that is someone that they should feel comfortable to ask for help. And here's the

00:30:31.000 thing is that I'm not saying that if you see one of these things, those are the things they have to

00:30:34.860 go through. But those are great little games that you can play with your kid as you're out and about

00:30:39.880 going, okay, what flags do we see? What food do we see? What families do we spot? So that your child

00:30:45.460 has a natural operating language for, okay, I'm used to looking for these things. Now I see three or

00:30:53.740 four options, which option makes me feel the best to approach. And I think the more that we empower

00:31:00.780 our children with their own participation in staying safe and remove the burden that fear

00:31:06.860 sometimes plays on those security situations, we are ultimately setting our children up for success

00:31:12.820 rather than detriment. Yeah, I think you did a good job of, you want to help your kids empower them.

00:31:18.140 You don't want to freak them out. I think a lot of times what parents do and teachers, they just say,

00:31:21.160 well, here's this bad thing that can happen. Stay away. And it's like, what's the kid supposed

00:31:26.320 to do with that? But when you give them just proactive things they can do, that's a better

00:31:31.560 approach. So we talked about earlier that when we're going through that five-step process of an

00:31:36.720 attack. So this is a concept that two people much smarter than me at the FBI, Reed and Malloy,

00:31:44.180 came up with. And it's officially classified as the pathway toward violence. And it's the five steps,

00:31:50.140 grievance, ideation, research and planning, breach and attack.

00:31:54.100 Well, let's apply this like a personal level. Let's say someone, this is like for a personal

00:31:58.740 threat assessment. This happens, I think, quite a bit with people. They get a crazy DM, direct

00:32:05.080 message from somebody or a text message where it's kind of threatening. How do you figure out whether,

00:32:11.480 okay, this is a concern or is this just some guy blowing off steam? How do you suss that out?

00:32:16.240 You know where I see this a lot, like on the individual concern is dating apps where a guy

00:32:23.500 will reach out to a girl, both swiped right or hinged or bumbled or whatever people are doing

00:32:28.860 today. And it starts off innocent and sweet. Like, Hey, you're really beautiful. You've got kind

00:32:35.100 eyes. And then she doesn't respond. Hey, I just wanted to make sure you got my message. And then

00:32:40.760 maybe she didn't respond. And then, and maybe she's just not, for whatever reason, she's not

00:32:44.920 responding. And that like eventually becomes the, you bitch, I hope you get raped and murdered. 1.00

00:32:49.980 So there's basically two kinds of inappropriate communication. One is predatory and one is 1.00

00:32:59.440 disruptive. So if you have two communications that are directly, let's say celebrity A gets her

00:33:07.180 handler or her agent or her manager, her lawyer, whoever go, Hey, we were going through her mail.

00:33:11.820 And there were two things that were of concern. The first one said, Hey, if you keep eating peanut

00:33:17.000 butter sandwiches, you're going to get fat. And the second one said, F you, we hope you die. 1.00

00:33:21.940 Which one of those is more concerning? The one that's actually more concerning is if you keep eating 1.00

00:33:29.080 peanut butter sandwiches, you're going to get fat because that demonstrates insider information,

00:33:34.640 right? How does that person know that if she keeps eating peanut butter sandwiches, she's going to

00:33:40.320 get fat? Is he her Uber Eats delivery guy? Is he the guy that keeps checking her out, buying like

00:33:47.440 gallons of peanut butter at Whole Foods? Is he the guy at whatever deli she goes to that is making her

00:33:54.980 those sandwiches? So that's a level of concern that we would want to look into. But beyond that,

00:34:02.160 what we're really looking for is the factor of a grievance. Does the communication either explicitly

00:34:10.800 or implicitly lead one to believe that this communication is tied to a grievance? And

00:34:16.740 especially if those communications are coming in, in, in like more than one fashion. So if we see

00:34:22.980 someone and they've actually like signed their name or it's from an email address or a phone number,

00:34:27.220 or if it's postmarked to an address, we can actually go and like look at their social media

00:34:31.980 or their profiles or whatever and see, are these people just natural disruptors who just hate their

00:34:38.220 own life? And so they spend a lot of time spewing discontent into the world in an attempt to make

00:34:44.520 themselves feel better. Or is this someone who, you know, we look on their profile and we see that

00:34:49.500 they're at a shooting range with that celebrity's face on, on a target. And it's got five bullets in the

00:34:54.440 10 ring. It's kind of like one of those things where it's like you read a Yelp review, like the

00:34:58.560 more words used, the more unfavorable that review is likely to be. Because if, if it's a positive

00:35:04.880 review, it's usually like, Oh, it was great. Loved it fun. But if it's a bad review, it's going to

00:35:09.680 start off with, well, what was supposed to be an enjoyable night out for me and my wife on our

00:35:13.640 anniversary met with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then if you go to that person's Yelp review and

00:35:19.120 you see all of, all of their reviews are negative, and then you see that this person is also sending

00:35:24.500 your client a negative communication, that person's most likely a disruptor. And so basically what

00:35:30.240 you're looking for is totality of circumstance. Is there supporting evidence of a grievance or is

00:35:38.600 this someone who is just trying to displace their own anxiety onto you in an attempt to make

00:35:45.500 themselves feel better? Because the reaction that they imagine you having to reading their letter

00:35:52.240 is better than anything they could actually achieve themselves.

00:35:56.380 Okay. So distinguish between someone who is a disruptor, which is basically you're just your

00:36:01.700 garden variety internet troll and someone who's actually a legitimate potential threat. Okay. But

00:36:08.380 so let's say you get a DM or something that seems potentially predatory. How should you respond to

00:36:16.500 that? So I have a buddy of mine who's a comedian. And when he sees something out in the world that

00:36:25.200 makes him think, you know, he goes, Oh, that's interesting. Or that's weird. Or that's odd. Or that's

00:36:30.280 off. And then that thought comes back to him again. That's his subconscious, like telling him that

00:36:37.120 there's something there and that he's got to do something about it, or there's something there

00:36:41.400 that he needs to investigate. And so what I typically recommend people do is we, we all have a very

00:36:48.360 highly evolved self-defense mechanism that allows us to know when something's not right.

00:36:55.060 So if you get a message from someone at that's, you know, what we would classify as an inappropriate

00:37:00.200 communication and you're just like, whatever, buddy, and you don't think about it ever again,

00:37:06.540 like, don't worry about it. But if it, if you read it and it makes you think twice, document it.

00:37:13.100 And I can't underscore how important the documenting of these kinds of behaviors are,

00:37:22.920 because what will ultimately protect you is being able to show that this individual

00:37:30.540 demonstrated a pattern and practice over space and time that was intended to harass,

00:37:40.300 torment, or cause fear. Let me give you two examples. In one case, there's a male employee who's

00:37:47.800 being sexually inappropriate with a female coworker at work during work hours.

00:37:52.920 The female employee reports this behavior to the HR and the male individual is warned. He does it

00:38:01.260 again and he is then terminated. That male individual then starts leaving her messages on,

00:38:08.280 on social media, starts texting her. Like a month or so later, starts like sending flowers to her house.

00:38:15.360 There's like gifts at her front door. Now she starts seeing him in the parking lot of her gym. And this

00:38:20.400 is all over the course of a month or two until like one day she notices him sitting outside of her

00:38:28.020 apartment building, sitting in his truck, just waiting outside. So she calls the police and says,

00:38:35.660 you know, Hey, there's this creepy guy in a truck outside of my house. And the police come and they

00:38:41.320 see the guy and they ask the guy like what he's doing. And he's like, Oh, I'm waiting, sitting here

00:38:45.640 waiting for my friend. And they're like, well, do you know this girl? And he's like, well, I have no

00:38:49.520 idea what you're talking about. Like the police have absolutely nothing to go on, right? They can't arrest

00:38:53.700 that guy. But if that woman, that same female had over the course of that past month or two documented 0.99

00:39:03.000 everything into a spreadsheet or an email or whatever, and then calls the police and says,

00:39:09.640 Hey, this guy who on this day did this on this day did that on this day did this. And on this day did

00:39:15.620 that. And she has a pattern in practice that shows him violating the very real divide between public

00:39:23.420 space and personal space that he is now going from disruptive behaviors to predatory behaviors.

00:39:28.980 He is clearly on this pathway to violence. And now the police show up and see him sitting in his car.

00:39:35.040 He's definitely getting arrested. And it all is because the incidents up until that point were documented.

00:39:42.340 So a document, but do you, should you respond?

00:39:44.680 No, never respond because here's, here's the thing. It's remember like when we're all in high school

00:39:49.760 and you know, the boy calls you like 10 times and then you answer on the 11th time, all you've done

00:39:54.860 is like reframe his expectations that the next time he has to call 12. What you want to show.

00:39:59.420 And I actually had this, I had this exact case where I had an ex-boyfriend of one of my clients

00:40:05.780 reached out to her via text, phone call, email, social media. I mean, he literally sent her two

00:40:13.120 cents on Venmo just so he could tell her that he hoped she would die. And the judge was like, well,

00:40:19.020 I see all of these, I see all, cause we had it all like in a spreadsheet and a template and this is

00:40:24.600 the times, dates and incidents and all this stuff. And the judge was like, well, where I only see him

00:40:29.520 reaching out to you. Where are all the times that you responded? And we were able to say,

00:40:33.260 we never once responded. The judge was like, Oh, I get it now. Right? Because what you're not doing

00:40:41.880 is this game of cat and mouse. What you are doing is trying to, and every time he would try to do

00:40:47.500 something, you know, and she wouldn't respond, he would create another account and would try it

00:40:51.400 that way. He would try it. He would just kept looking for all the different pathways that he

00:40:55.520 could get hold of her. She was never blocking, never deleting, never doing anything because as

00:41:01.080 soon as you, cause what you don't want to do is, is have it turn into this game of cat and mouse.

00:41:06.000 But what you do want to do is keep that going. Because here's the thing, like we were talking about

00:41:11.720 before, like with the target selection being determined by likelihood of success, most people

00:41:17.320 who communicate, and this is, I'm talking about non-personal. So I'm not talking like about

00:41:21.680 former intimate partners or classmates or employees. You see the people who like stalks of public figures

00:41:27.860 and things like that. One, there's typically a mental health concern, but two is what they're

00:41:32.200 basically looking for is some kind of response from the target of their action. Without that response,

00:41:39.020 they're going to transition to a target that they believe will be more likely to engage.

00:41:44.400 So the first thing is never, don't block, don't delete, don't do it. Just, just ignore.

00:41:50.420 You can report them. I absolutely recommend reporting them. And sometimes if that, if that server,

00:41:56.200 you know, I know like Instagram, if you report someone, I think they either block them or restrict

00:42:00.400 them or do something. But it's, it's really important that whatever you do, your only communication

00:42:06.580 is to people of authority, whether that be the management of, of that social media profile,

00:42:11.800 or you're, you're sending, you're just, you're sending it to another person just so that you

00:42:16.900 have a record of it. That's like on a time and date stamp of what's going on. Send it to your friends

00:42:20.900 and to send it to yourself. I recommend a lot of people just like keep an email thread where every

00:42:25.680 time something happens, just take a screenshot, add it and just email it to yourself and just keep

00:42:29.560 that thread going. Because the last thing you're going to want to do when something actually reaches

00:42:34.280 that quote unquote tipping point of concern is have to go back and try to remember everything that

00:42:39.300 happened. And then you get things wrong and then it can be contested. But if you're doing it in real

00:42:43.240 time, it's such, it's such an easy process to just email to yourself or text it to yourself.

00:42:48.780 I text myself like a thousand times a day, different notes and memories, but all of them

00:42:52.640 are time and date stamped at the time I sent it to myself. And it's a, it's all of that stuff is

00:42:57.480 admissible in court should it be needed later. Okay. So to reiterate, you don't want to respond

00:43:01.760 because that's just going to egg them on, but you also don't want to block them because you don't want

00:43:08.040 them to start coming after you on a different medium that you're not going to be able to track,

00:43:12.340 but then also it'll allow you to keep documenting their behavior. So you can, you know, use that

00:43:18.480 later on if you need to. Well, Spencer, this has been a great conversation. Where can people go to

00:43:22.460 learn more about the book and your work? So the book is called The Safety Trap. It is available on

00:43:27.980 Amazon. It's wherever your favorite books are sold. It's available in hardcover, electronic PDF,

00:43:35.300 and I did the audio book myself. So that's thesafetytrap.com or the business is Corson

00:43:41.900 Security Group. That's a C-O-U-R-S-E-N securitygroup.com. And I'm also on the socials, Instagram

00:43:49.380 at s.corson, Twitter, Spencer Corson. I'm on LinkedIn. Hit me up, reach, reach out. If you ever

00:43:55.880 have any questions or concerns, I am always happy to help. Fantastic. Well, Spencer Corson,

00:44:00.660 thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure. This was so much fun. Thank you so much for inviting me.

00:44:04.240 My guest today is Spencer Corson. He's the author of the book, The Safety Trap. It's available on

00:44:08.440 amazon.com and bookstores everywhere. You can find more information about the book at his website,

00:44:12.300 thesafetytrap.com. Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash safety trap. We find links to

00:44:17.260 resources. We delve deeper into this topic. Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast.

00:44:28.800 Make sure to check out our website at artofmanliness.com where you find our podcast archives, as well as

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00:45:00.780 this is Brett McKay reminding you to not only listen to the AOM podcast, but put what you've

00:45:05.100 heard into action.

The Art of Manliness - July 20, 2022

Escape the Safety Trap

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