The Art of Manliness - Here's What It Could Look Like to Put the Trades Back in School

00:00:00.000 Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:11.160 So lately, I've been talking to my son, Gus, about considering a career in the trades.

00:00:15.740 A lot of the white collar jobs out there, they just don't seem very fulfilling, and 0.97

00:00:19.280 AI is going to make more and more of them disappear.

00:00:22.140 But skilled tradesmen are in demand, and that demand is only going to grow.

00:00:25.820 So one option I floated to Gus is to still go to an affordable college for mind expansion

00:00:31.040 and social opportunities, but then instead of going on to get a graduate degree, as so

00:00:35.180 many young people do, he could go to trade school instead.

00:00:38.500 So that's one potential route, should he be interested.

00:00:40.980 But I really wish he could be exposed to the trades while he's still in high school.

00:00:44.660 All states have forms of what's called career and technical education, or CTE, but in most

00:00:49.740 places, it's set up in a patchwork fashion.

00:00:51.820 The programs are run by local schools who partner with other institutions that offer

00:00:56.300 instruction in the trades.

00:00:57.900 The state of Connecticut does things differently.

00:01:00.240 They have a one-of-a-kind CTE system, which, as one journalist recently put it, could serve

00:01:05.100 as a national model for how to put the trades back in school.

00:01:08.540 The Connecticut Technical Education and Career System, or CTECS, includes 17 high schools

00:01:13.420 that are all headed up by a single agency.

00:01:16.080 Each school offers an education in both academics and the trades on the same campus.

00:01:20.300 The students who choose to attend these special high schools spend half of their time on the

00:01:24.220 former and half of their time on the latter, so by the time they graduate, they've earned

00:01:28.160 both a high school diploma and certification in a trade.

00:01:31.540 And the size and organization of CTECS allows it to partner with hundreds of employers in

00:01:35.540 the area who furnish students with paid work on actual projects, so they get plenty of hands-on,

00:01:40.700 real-world experience.

00:01:42.260 Today on the show, I talk to Brent McCartney, who oversees the architecture and construction

00:01:46.180 trades at CTECS about how the program works and how it benefits both the students and

00:01:50.680 the community.

00:01:51.940 After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash ctex.

00:02:08.080 All right.

00:02:09.180 Brent McCartney, welcome to the show.

00:02:11.360 Thanks for having me.

00:02:12.120 So you are a consultant for the Connecticut Technical Education and Career System, but

00:02:17.600 you began your career in construction.

00:02:20.260 Tell us about your background and how you came to work with CTECS.

00:02:24.540 I'm really excited to talk about this.

00:02:26.980 Well, I'm excited to talk about it too.

00:02:28.400 So my career path actually starts with CTECS.

00:02:31.220 I am a graduate from our program.

00:02:34.260 I graduated from Halicini Tech in Manchester in 2001, and I was part of the carpentry program

00:02:39.540 there.

00:02:39.820 After graduation, I started working right in the field, so residential and commercial

00:02:45.160 construction.

00:02:46.660 And I did that both in Connecticut and Pennsylvania.

00:02:49.780 My wife got her master's out in Pittsburgh, so we moved out there in 2007.

00:02:54.140 I really enjoyed working construction, but then one day, you know, a friend of mine was

00:02:58.040 like, oh, I think you should teach.

00:02:59.360 I think you'd really like it.

00:03:00.980 And as soon as I was done laughing about that, I was like, yeah, what the heck?

00:03:03.800 I'll try it out.

00:03:04.440 So in 2009, I applied for a teaching position out in Pennsylvania.

00:03:08.440 It was a building trades program, so it's a little different than what we do here in

00:03:11.820 Connecticut.

00:03:12.540 For that, I had to teach carpentry and electrical to numerous grade levels of students.

00:03:17.780 But I'll tell you what, it was the best decision of my life.

00:03:19.840 I really liked working with the kids, kind of mentoring them through the process and helping

00:03:24.200 them find their passion and their path.

00:03:26.780 My wife finished her master's.

00:03:27.820 So in 2010, we moved back to Connecticut, and I was very lucky because a position opened

00:03:32.860 up at EC Goodwin in New Britain, and I was hired, and I taught carpentry there for about

00:03:38.100 eight years.

00:03:39.480 Again, I loved it.

00:03:40.840 I'd bring kids out to real jobs, and we would work on these projects for customers, and the

00:03:45.660 connection I had with the kids was just great.

00:03:47.780 Like, working out there, it couldn't have gotten better.

00:03:50.360 In 2018, I was asked to come up to our central office as an intern, and I really was hesitant

00:03:57.960 to do it.

00:03:58.440 I really didn't think I was going to like it because I really liked working with the

00:04:01.280 kids.

00:04:01.920 But I figured I would shut it out, and again, I was wrong.

00:04:04.420 I really enjoyed it.

00:04:05.400 I work now with teachers of the architecture, carpentry, landscaping, and masonry shops in

00:04:11.420 our district.

00:04:11.860 And I really enjoy it.

00:04:14.280 I really enjoy mentoring these teachers and setting up their professional development

00:04:19.140 and their facilities and kind of getting into the policy side of education.

00:04:24.640 Well, so the Connecticut Technical Education and Career System, so it's CTEX for short.

00:04:28.920 That's what you guys call it?

00:04:30.200 It is, yeah.

00:04:30.880 CTEX.

00:04:31.560 All right.

00:04:31.780 So this is a one-of-a-kind high school system in the United States that combines academics

00:04:37.760 and trade training.

00:04:39.520 So can you give us a big-picture overview of CTEX?

00:04:42.180 Like, how long has it been around, and how did the idea kick off?

00:04:46.380 Sure, sure.

00:04:46.980 So it's been around for a little over 100 years.

00:04:50.480 In its infancy, it was kind of developed through industry itself and then became more and more

00:04:57.400 like a school setting instead of just trade.

00:05:01.080 And so now, in 2023, our mission remains the same.

00:05:04.900 We're here to be the primary pipeline for students going into the field.

00:05:09.140 So our students here at CTEX have 91 full days of academics, and then we have 91 days in trade.

00:05:17.360 So they kind of get both of those educations in the same time that a student would just

00:05:21.960 get the academics in another high school.

00:05:24.100 Okay.

00:05:24.140 So they're learning geometry, history, but they're also learning how to do masonry or carpentry

00:05:29.360 or being an electrician.

00:05:31.260 That's exactly right.

00:05:32.360 So we have 20 schools.

00:05:35.200 Two of them are adult aviation.

00:05:36.960 So those schools don't have academics built into them.

00:05:39.940 Those are just primarily aviation schools.

00:05:42.360 We have one tech ed center.

00:05:43.980 This is also a little bit different.

00:05:45.440 It's a lot like what you would see in other states where the students for that school get

00:05:50.160 their academics from their sending town.

00:05:51.760 And then when they're in 11th to 12th grade, they can go to that school to get some CTE education

00:05:58.380 as well as adults.

00:06:00.480 Adults also attend that school.

00:06:01.900 But 17 of our schools are diploma-granting high schools.

00:06:06.280 So they have, they're our students.

00:06:08.260 They get all of their academics and all of their trade with us.

00:06:11.340 And this is, it's a public school system?

00:06:13.500 It is a public school system.

00:06:15.240 And we're also a state entity.

00:06:16.700 So we're state funded, which really helps us because it increases kind of the partnerships

00:06:21.840 we have with state agencies like the Department of Labor and Department of Transportation and

00:06:26.580 Department of Education, obviously.

00:06:28.080 It helps us to align to state initiatives, right?

00:06:31.200 So we work closely with the Governor's Workforce Council and others to make sure that we're relevant

00:06:37.420 within our state and also some high-level partnerships.

00:06:40.140 So being a state entity really helps.

00:06:42.140 And how many students are enrolled in CTEX right now?

00:06:44.780 So right now we have 11,500 students, roughly.

00:06:49.560 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:50.160 And that's daytime students.

00:06:51.800 We also run night school.

00:06:53.100 So we have about 3,000 adult learners also.

00:06:55.740 So what's interesting about CTEX, it's been around for over 100 years.

00:06:58.600 They're combining academics with the trade training.

00:07:01.740 But it's interesting, you look back at public education in America, big picture, across the

00:07:06.160 country.

00:07:06.880 And it used to be a lot of high schools would offer some sort of trade training, right?

00:07:10.760 You could take a car shop.

00:07:11.940 You could take wood shop.

00:07:13.120 But most high schools, they don't even offer those classes anymore.

00:07:16.880 Why did any kind of trade training in American public education, except at CTEX, but why do

00:07:21.280 you think, if you're looking at it from a big picture overview, why do you think it got

00:07:24.680 eliminated from a lot of public high schools?

00:07:28.420 Well, I think there's really two things happening here.

00:07:30.860 One was just society's perception of what a successful path looks like.

00:07:36.480 And for many, that included college.

00:07:40.100 I mean, there was, like I said, I went to tech school myself.

00:07:43.640 I started in 97, graduated in 01.

00:07:47.640 And the perception back then was, if you didn't have a college degree, you weren't going to

00:07:51.080 be successful.

00:07:51.660 So I think that that got kind of programmed into people.

00:07:56.420 So they didn't see the trades as an option, which we now know is completely false.

00:08:00.940 But I also think that educational policy had a lot to do with this also.

00:08:05.440 So No Child Left Behind was enacted.

00:08:08.640 And the focus went to accountability instead of the skills that students were learning.

00:08:14.320 And now you're looking at high stakes testing being the, you know, the benchmark for success.

00:08:20.760 So a lot of teachers just started teaching to the test, teaching just the content.

00:08:25.220 And we moved away from how kids were working with information.

00:08:29.120 So a lot of problem solving and critical thinking was taken away, a lot of communication skills

00:08:34.400 and kind of that independent thinking.

00:08:36.180 And then when No Child Left Behind kind of sifted out, we're looking at the technology boom,

00:08:41.060 right?

00:08:41.220 So we're looking at focusing on computers and other technology.

00:08:44.320 So I just think that the trades took a backseat in a lot of ways.

00:08:48.760 And what do you think the consequences have been with the shift primarily to academics in

00:08:52.780 American high schools?

00:08:53.660 How has it hurt our country on a macro level, you think?

00:08:57.580 Well, I would tell you to try to find a contractor to come work on your house.

00:09:01.200 And you'd feel that pain immediately.

00:09:03.000 I think it's had a severe impact on the amount of trained workers that we have in a lot of fields

00:09:10.300 in our country.

00:09:11.980 You know, the average age of a worker right now is nearing retirement age.

00:09:15.560 You know, they're retiring faster than we have kids coming in.

00:09:19.140 So there's just a lot of knowledge being lost, a lot of experience being lost, because a lot

00:09:23.580 of the trades that we work with, you know, include an apprenticeship and on-the-job training.

00:09:29.560 And as these people are retiring and not retraining, then we're kind of losing a lot of that

00:09:34.820 experience.

00:09:35.300 So we really need to focus on how this is a successful route.

00:09:39.560 This is a place where people can make money and be successful with, you know, having a

00:09:44.580 family, having a house and making a living.

00:09:46.940 I'm sure it's different in every part of the country, but what's the supply of skilled labor

00:09:51.460 like in different sectors?

00:09:53.000 Is there a field like carpentry or electrical that's hurting the most?

00:09:57.360 What are you seeing in your neck of the woods?

00:09:59.260 Well, so in Connecticut, I would say that construction and manufacturing are probably the biggest

00:10:05.440 career paths that are kind of in need.

00:10:09.440 So really construction with all types of construction.

00:10:12.320 But last year, there was a $5.4 billion infrastructure bill passed.

00:10:17.340 And, you know, there's a lot of work to be done on our bridges and our roadwork, roadways

00:10:22.360 and stuff.

00:10:22.820 So I think that with all of those fields, so the electrical that goes into that and the

00:10:27.940 prepping of the roads to putting down the roads, I think there's going to be a lot of

00:10:30.680 work in that realm.

00:10:31.500 But I mean, just residential and commercial construction is also booming.

00:10:35.080 But manufacturing around us is huge.

00:10:37.160 So we have Pratt & Whitney, Sikorsky, Electric Boat, and we're working with them constantly

00:10:41.200 to try to meet their needs.

00:10:42.820 But they have some pretty substantial needs.

00:10:45.860 So we've talked about macro level, how this shift away from trade training and just focusing

00:10:50.480 on academics has hurt us, there's, yeah, if someone's trying to get a contractor, roof

00:10:55.380 repaired, electrician, a plumber, it might be, could be weeks before you can even get anything

00:11:01.240 on the calendar.

00:11:02.460 Let's talk about on an individual level with the student, what do you think has happened

00:11:06.620 to individual students?

00:11:08.680 How has it hurt individual students by shifting away from trade training and just focusing on

00:11:13.740 academics?

00:11:15.600 Well, we hear it all the time, right?

00:11:17.040 So that students will go to a two or four year college and either not finish or finish

00:11:24.180 into a field that doesn't have work, right?

00:11:26.940 So they have this diploma, but there's no job to fill that.

00:11:31.540 I'm a perfect example.

00:11:32.940 When I graduated in 2001, I made a deal with my mom.

00:11:37.380 She wanted me to get a degree because again, that's what we had to do back in the day to

00:11:42.220 be successful.

00:11:42.880 So I actually have an associate's degree that it's helped me now because I'm, I'm pursuing

00:11:49.360 my doctorate in educational leadership.

00:11:50.940 So I use that transfer credit as much as I could, but, uh, I only did it because I thought

00:11:57.160 at that time that I needed it.

00:11:58.600 And so I think having that as like the norm for kids that don't want a career that needs

00:12:05.660 a college diploma, I just think there's a lot of wasted money in education out there.

00:12:09.340 Yeah.

00:12:10.220 Have you seen CTS create more opportunities for students who would have normally, you

00:12:14.820 know, fallen between the cracks in a traditional high school?

00:12:18.760 So, so I don't know that I love the term fall between the cracks because it's not like we're

00:12:24.560 filled with students who are unsuccessful in other routes, but I do think that we're helping

00:12:30.000 students make educated decisions.

00:12:31.800 When they come to us, there's a huge focus on career exploration.

00:12:35.460 So even inside of one shop, there's many, many avenues.

00:12:40.300 Take carpentry, for instance, there's residential carpentry and all the different siding and

00:12:43.860 roofing and framing.

00:12:44.960 There's commercial construction, there's construction management, horizontal construction, like I was

00:12:49.100 talking about with road work.

00:12:50.240 So I, we do focus a lot on career exploration so that students can make educated decisions.

00:12:55.300 So then if they do go off to college, which happens quite a bit, they're going to get

00:13:00.160 a degree in a field that they're going to pursue.

00:13:01.740 So, gotcha.

00:13:03.100 Well, speaking of that idea that, you know, you don't want to say that the program only

00:13:07.960 attracts students who haven't thrived in traditional high school, what's the makeup, right?

00:13:13.140 The demographic.

00:13:14.300 I mean, so I think one of the reasons why trade school was looked down upon or, you know, was

00:13:19.480 just looked over was the idea that it's blue collar, right?

00:13:22.820 It's just for working class kids. 1.00

00:13:24.420 And if you want to be part of the middle class or the upper class, you got to go to college.

00:13:29.220 So does that stereotype hold up or are you getting kids who come from white collar or

00:13:35.620 middle-class families, but they're still seeing trade schools as a, as a viable option?

00:13:40.560 I mean, I guess, are you getting a wide swath of the socioeconomic spectrum?

00:13:45.520 It is a wide swath.

00:13:46.700 So again, our, our system covers the whole state.

00:13:49.840 So with the 20 locations, we're all over Connecticut and Connecticut in itself is very diverse.

00:13:54.820 But I would say that the makeup of each of our schools matches the sending towns within,

00:13:59.940 you know, that area.

00:14:01.620 So I, I definitely don't see any notable difference in socioeconomic status or gender or race,

00:14:10.360 or, I mean, we're open to all Connecticut residents and we promote our districts, you know,

00:14:15.220 equally throughout the state.

00:14:16.760 Have you seen more interest in general in CTEX from both parents and high schoolers in Connecticut?

00:14:22.080 So over the last couple of years, yeah, our, our applications for open seats has doubled.

00:14:27.260 So there definitely is more of a push and we do our best too, to match the needs in that

00:14:33.960 area.

00:14:34.320 So it's very relevant for students that live in that area.

00:14:36.900 So yeah.

00:14:37.380 So how does it change from area to area?

00:14:39.700 Like why would it be different in one part of the state compared to another?

00:14:43.420 Well, all on the industry that's in that area.

00:14:45.760 So when we open programming or closed programming or move programming, it's all based on industry

00:14:51.660 need and department of labor data.

00:14:54.320 So we do our best to make educated decisions about what we put in schools.

00:14:59.360 We also try to make sure that each school has a good profile because you will have students

00:15:03.560 that will come in that are very physical.

00:15:06.380 They want to work outside.

00:15:07.140 So we have a lot of the construction trades are auto.

00:15:09.280 And then we also have some sit-down trades like IT and digital media or architecture.

00:15:14.960 So students can kind of now be more of an office setting.

00:15:18.420 So yeah, we match the DOL data for that area.

00:15:21.460 And then we also match just to make sure that we have a plethora of opportunities for students.

00:15:27.740 So you mentioned some of the trade offerings you have.

00:15:30.020 You have electrical, carpentry, masonry.

00:15:33.120 You also have architecture.

00:15:34.900 How many total trades are you training at CTEX?

00:15:37.740 So currently, we have 31 different trade offerings, kind of all over the place, right?

00:15:44.100 So we have transportation trades, auto, diesel, collision repair.

00:15:48.440 We have construction.

00:15:49.940 There's nine trades within construction, everything from electrical to HVAC systems, plumbing,

00:15:55.380 carpentry, masonry, landscaping.

00:15:57.820 Then we have some in the health and people services.

00:16:02.060 So we have a criminal justice and protective services.

00:16:04.840 We have health tech, veterinary science.

00:16:07.000 We have culinary, hairdressing.

00:16:08.980 So really, all across the map, we have trade programming.

00:16:12.260 Okay, so say a student wants to get involved in CTEX.

00:16:15.420 They enroll.

00:16:16.300 How does a student decide which area or which trade they're going to focus on when they enroll?

00:16:22.040 So this is one of the things I think that we do best because I think there's a lot of

00:16:26.420 perceptions out there of what each trade is.

00:16:29.840 But until you actually get in and do it, it's hard to make that decision.

00:16:33.180 So we have what we call our exploratory process.

00:16:36.660 And every student at CTEX will spend two days in every one of the shops that we offer.

00:16:41.700 And in that two days, the teacher will kind of go over what it looks like to be there for

00:16:46.140 four years, what it looks like upon graduation and all those different career pathways associated.

00:16:51.540 And some of those, again, might include college.

00:16:54.300 Some of them might include an apprenticeship.

00:16:55.980 Some of them might include direct employment.

00:16:58.120 But they kind of get a feel for each of the shops.

00:17:00.700 Then at the end of that, they pick three shops to go back to.

00:17:04.940 So they'll go back to three shops for four days and really kind of dig down deep as to

00:17:10.220 what that shop is, what it has to offer.

00:17:12.460 But in both phase one and phase two, they'll complete a project also that mimics what they're

00:17:17.920 going to do in the four years.

00:17:18.880 So they can kind of see if they have an aptitude or an interest in that area.

00:17:22.640 That's really cool.

00:17:23.560 So let's talk about what day-to-day life is like for these students.

00:17:26.200 It's grades nine through 12.

00:17:28.140 Let's talk about the academic side.

00:17:29.440 Like what does an academic education look like with trade training?

00:17:33.560 How do you combine the two?

00:17:34.660 So you mentioned there's 91 days of academic instruction and then 91 days of trade instruction.

00:17:40.240 What does a typical schedule look like for a student?

00:17:43.520 Well, let's start off with the shift.

00:17:45.320 So I keep saying 91 and 91, but it's not 91 straight days and 91 straight days.

00:17:50.520 So it's best to say about 10-day cycles, somewhere around a two-week mark.

00:17:56.300 So what will happen is like at the beginning of the year, 9th and 12th graders will start

00:18:00.220 off in academics while 10th and 11th graders are in shop.

00:18:03.880 And like I said, roughly around 10 days with holidays and stuff in there, it varies, but

00:18:07.800 they'll switch about every 10 days.

00:18:09.620 So when they're in academics, it's your typical setup, just like a regular high school.

00:18:13.880 So they're going period to period, math, English, social studies.

00:18:18.020 They have gym, Spanish, art, and they rotate through their schedule.

00:18:22.620 And then when they're in shop in the 9th and 10th grade, they have two pullouts for literacy

00:18:28.440 and numeracy lab, but otherwise they're in the shop all day.

00:18:31.800 And then in 11th and 12th grade, they have one pullout for what we call portfolio.

00:18:35.840 This is where they learn a lot about employability skills, resume building, and stuff like that.

00:18:40.060 But otherwise, they're in the trade all day.

00:18:41.920 So that's pretty much what their schedule looks like.

00:18:44.380 All right.

00:18:44.500 So 10 days on with the academic and then 10 days with the trade training.

00:18:48.180 So you mentioned the 9th and 10th graders, the first two years.

00:18:52.220 It's different from the 11th and 12th graders.

00:18:54.580 And we'll talk about it.

00:18:55.220 I really want to talk about what the 11th and 12th graders do because this is really cool

00:18:57.780 what they do.

00:18:58.560 But 9th and 10th grade, what does vocational training look like for them those first two years?

00:19:02.620 So very, very hands-on depending on the shop, but we're really talking about the foundation

00:19:09.120 of learning in 9th and 10th.

00:19:10.480 So they're learning a lot of new vocab.

00:19:12.920 It's a completely different language with the shop that they're in.

00:19:15.600 And then they're learning a lot of safety depending on the shop.

00:19:18.720 Every one of our shops has hazards.

00:19:20.700 You know, construction, obviously, with heights and the machinery we're using.

00:19:24.980 Manufacturing is all machinery.

00:19:26.700 When you walk into the shop, you can see machines from one side to the other.

00:19:30.160 So there's a lot of safety in there and then a lot of math.

00:19:33.440 So what we like to call applicable math, because now we're talking about the math that they're

00:19:37.480 going to use every day in the shop.

00:19:39.400 And we do a good job in our district of tying it back to what they're learning in academics

00:19:44.480 also and vice versa.

00:19:46.280 But yeah, so a lot of foundational learning, but we like to, so we're a competency-based district.

00:19:51.760 So we'll teach them a competency and then we'll mix those into a project.

00:19:55.140 So that way the students can really dig down deep and learn.

00:19:57.820 So the first two years, you're primarily going to be in the shop in that environment, correct?

00:20:03.000 For most of our shops, yeah, they're doing projects within the shop, yes.

00:20:07.940 Gotcha.

00:20:08.300 But one of the unique things about CTEX is that when a student becomes a junior,

00:20:12.080 they can actually start working on projects for real customers.

00:20:15.760 So tell us about the work-based learning program.

00:20:19.320 Well, so I'll back it up one and talk about our student workforce.

00:20:23.560 So our student workforce has two kind of pathways in it.

00:20:26.860 One of them is what we would call student production, and one of them is WBL.

00:20:31.500 So student production is where our students are working with their instructors to complete

00:20:36.220 projects.

00:20:37.240 And we do this, every program does some sort of production.

00:20:41.180 So like hairdressing or automotive or culinary, we'll have customers coming into the school

00:20:45.280 and eating, getting their hair done or their car work done.

00:20:47.960 And then the construction trades will go off campus.

00:20:51.260 They'll do boiler furnace swap outs, put in AC.

00:20:55.460 We build houses, additions, sheds, re-roof.

00:20:58.460 So we do a lot of projects for customers in that respect also.

00:21:01.660 So that's our student production where they're working with their teacher.

00:21:06.640 And this benefits everybody in a lot of ways.

00:21:09.400 One, we charge about the fifth of the cost of industry because it's a learning environment,

00:21:13.480 but they're getting the same product.

00:21:15.480 So it's very beneficial to the customer.

00:21:17.440 And it's very beneficial for us because one, it gives the students a real project to work

00:21:22.220 on.

00:21:22.500 It gives them that customer experience.

00:21:24.200 So they're building up their employability skills, communication skills and such.

00:21:28.420 But they also take it a lot more seriously.

00:21:30.740 It also offsets our budget because we do charge.

00:21:32.940 So we do take in a little money on production.

00:21:35.840 So this is honestly, having a full day of shop is really beneficial because the kids will

00:21:41.940 get to do these experiences.

00:21:43.360 And in some vocational settings, it's not full day.

00:21:46.200 So it'd be very hard to leave or take on some of these projects.

00:21:50.340 Gotcha.

00:21:50.640 Okay.

00:21:50.800 So that's with the teachers there guiding.

00:21:53.320 He's sort of like the foreman.

00:21:54.380 He's there to offer guidance and helping the kids out there.

00:21:58.480 Exactly.

00:21:59.040 It's the same thing as teaching in a classroom.

00:22:01.100 You're just doing it out in the field.

00:22:03.960 So the teacher kind of takes on that contractor role, plans out his or her lesson for the

00:22:08.940 day.

00:22:09.460 But it's also, you know, finishing a project for a customer, like I said, in and out of

00:22:13.400 the school.

00:22:14.240 And are the kids getting graded on their performance when they're doing that?

00:22:17.560 They are.

00:22:18.140 Yep.

00:22:18.380 This is all part of their grade.

00:22:20.720 So partially on the product that they're putting out and partially on how they completed

00:22:24.420 the project.

00:22:25.040 So this is how we are building employable students is through real work.

00:22:30.840 We're going to take a quick break for your words from our sponsors.

00:22:33.960 And now back to the show.

00:22:39.420 Okay.

00:22:39.900 So there's that one aspect where the students are working with their teachers on different

00:22:43.440 projects.

00:22:43.840 But then there's also another aspect of this work-based learning where they're actually

00:22:47.840 going out there and apprenticing, correct?

00:22:50.560 They are.

00:22:51.280 So because our curriculum is to teach them the field, we can align that to them actually

00:22:58.620 working.

00:22:59.300 So a student could get hired in their junior or senior year and go off and work with that

00:23:05.440 contractor.

00:23:06.120 And not only is that contractor paying them, but they're also getting school credit.

00:23:09.900 They're getting credit towards their grades.

00:23:11.480 This is one of the best things that we do because we find when students go out there and really

00:23:16.900 experience it with a employer, they end up staying in the field.

00:23:20.520 They make a more of a vested interest in it and make a better decision and stay in the

00:23:25.180 field.

00:23:26.420 Okay.

00:23:26.460 And so they get to leave school to go work during the day.

00:23:30.480 Exactly.

00:23:31.020 Yep.

00:23:31.300 During their trade cycle, because again, it aligns with their curriculum.

00:23:34.340 So they're, they're still learning what they're supposed to be learning.

00:23:37.120 They're just doing it in the field.

00:23:38.540 And they're getting paid for it.

00:23:39.620 This is like a job and they're getting paid for it.

00:23:41.900 Yep.

00:23:42.120 And we have an agreement with the department of labor.

00:23:44.360 So a lot of our career pathways that we have here are generally for 18 and older students

00:23:51.440 or workers, right?

00:23:53.340 So it's a hazardous field.

00:23:54.460 I mean, even some culinary places that have slicers, you have to be 18 to be on the slicer

00:23:58.720 construction itself is almost all 18 and over just because of the, the hazards automotives

00:24:04.220 the same way, but we have an agreement with the department of labor that is part of WBL.

00:24:09.020 Students can go work in these hazardous trades as soon as 16.

00:24:13.040 And that's just because our safety programming has been vetted and approved for our students

00:24:18.460 to go off and work in these fields.

00:24:20.640 And when they're working in the field, you know, like when they're working for somebody

00:24:23.560 and getting paid, is the employer also giving you guys, you know, like the school feedback

00:24:29.420 on how the student is doing so you can help with their progress?

00:24:33.460 Absolutely.

00:24:34.180 Yeah.

00:24:34.500 So they sign on and when they're signing on all, all the verbiage in the application process

00:24:40.200 is mentor.

00:24:41.020 So we really stress that this isn't just your regular employee, although you should be teaching

00:24:45.540 all of your employees, but this is really a student employee.

00:24:48.140 And the whole purpose of this is to enhance their education.

00:24:51.980 So they're not out there just sweeping floors and cleaning up and getting coffees.

00:24:56.860 That's not what the program is for.

00:24:59.400 They are the mentor and it's kind of their responsibility to make sure these students are

00:25:04.360 getting that experience.

00:25:05.540 So we get feedback in two ways.

00:25:07.760 One, the student has a journal where they write what they're doing and it's the department

00:25:13.220 head of the trades responsibility to kind of align that to the curriculum.

00:25:16.460 But then we also get a report back from the employer.

00:25:20.520 The first part of the report is pretty prescriptive.

00:25:22.600 We have the questions there to ask how they're doing, but then there's also an area there for

00:25:27.000 their comments.

00:25:27.740 So we can really understand what that student's getting because sometimes we'll call students

00:25:32.360 back if we feel they're not getting a part of the curriculum.

00:25:36.120 So we'll say, you know, you can't go out these couple of days so that we can teach you this

00:25:40.500 because you're not getting it with the contractor and then we'll put them back out to work.

00:25:43.800 And do you guys have a lot of buy-in from employers in the state?

00:25:46.960 Is there a lot of interest from employers in being part of the program?

00:25:50.340 Absolutely.

00:25:51.060 We have over 600 employer partners within our district and that's only going to go up.

00:25:57.720 I bet that's actually not even a correct number.

00:26:00.560 For a while, we've been trying to manage this as well as we could, but now we're instituting

00:26:06.040 what we're calling the Career Center.

00:26:08.220 And the Career Center's sole purpose will be to kind of wrangle the cats, if you will.

00:26:13.680 So they're going to kind of coordinate the effort that everybody has going on.

00:26:20.020 So they will be the one-stop shop for industry to call upon, but also for teachers and students

00:26:24.840 to call upon just to kind of funnel in all the effort and make sure that the students

00:26:29.800 are accessing them, but also industry is accessing us appropriately.

00:26:33.700 And so, as you said, these kids, they're doing academics, they're doing the trade training,

00:26:36.840 they're when they're juniors and seniors, they're getting on the job training and getting

00:26:41.140 paid for it.

00:26:42.400 But as you said, they're also having a regular high school experience.

00:26:44.980 They're playing sports and joining clubs and doing dances and things like that.

00:26:49.140 Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:50.300 With the exception of aviation in Bristol, because again, that's adult ed, but the 17 other schools

00:26:55.920 have volleyball, basketball, baseball, softball, golf.

00:27:00.640 Some of them are in football co-ops, and they also have the availability, if it's a sport

00:27:05.360 that we don't have, but their sending school does, they can wrestle for them or swim for

00:27:10.200 them.

00:27:10.980 Homecoming, prom, senior outings, pep rally, stuff like that is all very, very common in

00:27:15.520 our schools, and so are clubs.

00:27:18.240 Each school has a set of clubs for the students too.

00:27:20.900 That's cool.

00:27:21.740 So when these kids graduate from CTEX, they have a high school diploma, and then they also,

00:27:27.060 they get a certificate in their trade, correct?

00:27:29.580 They do, yep.

00:27:30.420 Yep.

00:27:30.640 And I imagine they've worked enough hours to start working right away.

00:27:36.420 So yeah, every field has a little bit different of a process.

00:27:40.840 So like the licensed trades in Connecticut, electrical, plumbing, and HVAC, hairdressing

00:27:46.640 are all examples of licensed trades.

00:27:48.480 Our students get hours towards their apprenticeship.

00:27:51.500 So they'll get 750 related training hours, and then they get about 1,500 on-the-job training

00:27:58.200 hours towards that apprenticeship.

00:27:59.360 In some other cases that don't have apprenticeships, they'll have certifications like welding and

00:28:04.700 stuff like that.

00:28:05.340 We have avenues for students to get certified or qualify for certification.

00:28:11.820 And so each one of our fields, we have pretty distinct pathways that the students can follow.

00:28:17.540 So with the high school diploma, they could go to college or they could start working right away.

00:28:22.800 What do you see most students doing after they graduate from CTEX?

00:28:26.200 Are they just going right into the trade or what percentage are going to college, et cetera?

00:28:30.420 So I would say it's probably, I looked at the data recently from last year.

00:28:36.160 There's about 40% of our students that are going for full-time work in their trade.

00:28:41.060 And then there's a chunk not in that 40% that are kind of part-time going to school, part-time

00:28:46.940 working in the trade and going to school.

00:28:48.400 And then we have probably 40% also that pursue a two to four-year degree.

00:28:52.940 And out of that number, a majority of them are trade-related.

00:28:57.840 So like vet science, for instance, a lot of those students would be going to get their

00:29:02.180 associate's degree in veterinary technology to be a vet tech.

00:29:05.520 Architecture or what we call mechanical drafting and engineering technology, which is mechanical

00:29:10.860 drafting, they could be going on to get, you know, become an architect or become an engineer,

00:29:16.940 civil engineer, mechanical engineer.

00:29:18.880 So some of the pathways are pretty aligned.

00:29:22.220 I thought it was interesting how some of the kids did the halfway thing that you mentioned,

00:29:26.860 where they'd go to school, you know, college part-time, but then they'd also work part-time

00:29:31.740 in a trade that they were trained in at CTEX to save money.

00:29:35.600 Because I mean, there's been a lot of discussion these days about, you know, the amount of college

00:29:39.660 debt that young people are taking on and it's becoming unbearable.

00:29:43.240 But this is a way that they can mitigate that and continue to get some real-world experience

00:29:48.340 and, you know, also save money in the process.

00:29:51.460 Absolutely.

00:29:52.220 And there's even, especially in our area of the country, there's even companies that

00:29:57.720 will sponsor a kid through school.

00:29:59.620 So they'll hire them and they'll work for them and they'll actually pay off their school

00:30:03.480 loans and stuff that's provided.

00:30:05.560 Because again, everyone's trying to build their workforce.

00:30:09.120 Have there been any other states that have implemented something similar to CTEX?

00:30:13.260 Or is this like one of a kind in Connecticut?

00:30:15.140 I think there's CTE in most every state throughout the country.

00:30:19.420 But what makes CTEX different is, number one, all of our schools are under one system.

00:30:25.080 That's very unique throughout.

00:30:26.960 That's not...

00:30:28.280 When you go to, say, surrounding states here, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, each one of those

00:30:33.300 schools is its own entity.

00:30:34.620 So if there's two carpentry teachers there, for instance, they find their own professional

00:30:39.380 development.

00:30:39.940 They do their own industry outreach.

00:30:42.580 And as they're developing their curriculum and stuff, that's done all in-house.

00:30:46.120 Here, we have a very robust system.

00:30:48.900 So we have a very robust central office.

00:30:51.280 So for me, I oversee the architecture, carpentry, masonry, and landscaping trades.

00:30:55.600 And I have 32 carpentry teachers, for instance, if we just pick one trade.

00:30:59.360 That's a lot of collaboration.

00:31:01.140 That's a lot of outreach.

00:31:02.820 That way, we can get more industry in.

00:31:05.120 Because that connection is paramount.

00:31:07.180 We need that connection in order to stay relevant, to stay up on the times and making

00:31:11.640 sure that our product is what they're looking for.

00:31:14.540 I'm curious.

00:31:15.000 So you've mentioned...

00:31:15.980 So they're getting the training, like the skill-based training.

00:31:18.720 And then when they're on the job, they're learning employee skills, like how to show up

00:31:22.580 on time, how to fill out forms, things like that.

00:31:25.100 Are you guys also teaching kids how to run a business?

00:31:28.580 I mean, I imagine that's another skill set that...

00:31:30.380 Okay, you might start off as a journeyman, right?

00:31:34.100 Electrician.

00:31:34.680 And eventually, you want to work your way up.

00:31:36.500 And you're like, I love this career.

00:31:37.360 I actually want to start...

00:31:38.380 I want to own and run my own electric company or electrician company.

00:31:42.360 Do you guys teach how to manage a business as well?

00:31:46.740 So not explicitly.

00:31:49.380 Because like we talked about the foundation skills and just the muscle memory that goes

00:31:54.540 into the hands-on skills that they're learning.

00:31:57.380 You know, you can't stuff everything in all at once.

00:32:01.360 So we don't.

00:32:02.300 Our goal is to give them the skills they need for entry-level employment.

00:32:06.000 But we do talk about when we're exploring the career and all that, we do talk about those

00:32:10.720 avenues that they exist.

00:32:12.480 But the actual running the books or accounting part of a business or the specifics like that,

00:32:18.940 we do not.

00:32:19.800 But imagine by being on the job, they probably pick up some of that stuff.

00:32:23.320 They get to see it in action.

00:32:24.720 And also by talking to their mentors, they can kind of get an idea of what that's like.

00:32:29.600 Yeah, exactly.

00:32:30.280 So every one of the jobs we do, we contract out because obviously we're a state agency.

00:32:34.140 So we would have a contract with the customer.

00:32:36.680 The kids are along for that process.

00:32:39.000 They get to go off and they get to have the conversation from the very beginning.

00:32:42.420 So I guess they do get that feel on how to speak to a customer, how to develop the plan

00:32:47.460 for the job, write the contract, and then obviously execute the job.

00:32:51.000 All right, so when they graduate, they have enough hours typically to start working, start

00:32:56.080 a starting job.

00:32:57.700 What's the starting salary for some of these kids right out of high school?

00:33:01.180 Because that's another thing.

00:33:02.100 With college, you go to college, you have to probably take on a lot of debt.

00:33:05.600 And then with a college education, it might be years before you actually recoup the cost

00:33:11.560 of that college investment.

00:33:13.940 What are kids making right out of high school?

00:33:15.860 So it's really hard to say because every field is so different, but because our system is so

00:33:22.300 well known within Connecticut, we have a lot of articulation agreements with industry.

00:33:26.640 So I can tell you that a lot of our students get apprenticeship credit.

00:33:30.480 So where a student that's not coming from CTEX would start as the bottom apprentice, in many

00:33:36.180 respects, our students do not.

00:33:37.660 So they're starting with a year or two of experience under their belt, according to the

00:33:42.480 apprenticeship.

00:33:42.880 So they're starting at a higher pay.

00:33:44.980 And then also they have the tools, even those students who start kind of making the not

00:33:50.660 minimum wage, but the minimum wage within a company, they have the tools to advance quickly.

00:33:55.000 And that's very, very common for our students.

00:33:57.220 So they'll start off as a regular employee down kind of on the bottom, but then the employer

00:34:02.560 can see what they have and they very quickly are giving them a promotion just to keep them.

00:34:07.440 Well, let's say someone's listening to this and they don't live in Connecticut and they're

00:34:10.100 thinking, this sounds really cool.

00:34:11.260 I wish there was something like this for my kid.

00:34:13.360 Based on your experience, is there a way for a kid who lives in Oklahoma where I'm at to

00:34:18.600 replicate something like CTEX has on their own?

00:34:21.980 Or is this, I mean, is it just so it's such a unique thing that it's kind of hard to?

00:34:25.480 I think it's a heavy lift, right?

00:34:28.920 Because we are a large district, you know, over 11,000 kids, somewhere around 2,000 staff

00:34:34.260 members.

00:34:34.820 But CTE, again, is everywhere all over our country.

00:34:38.380 And if I had to pick some key characteristics of good career and technical education, I would

00:34:44.300 say industry outreach has to be number one.

00:34:47.100 Seeing what's in that area, what's relevant in aligning curriculum if it's in a school or

00:34:53.480 aligning training if you're already out of school.

00:34:56.820 In a lot of respects, industry is chomping at the bit to get into schools.

00:35:00.640 So they're willing to come in and give kids an experience, whether it's just guest speaking

00:35:06.080 or a field trip.

00:35:07.740 They're very into that.

00:35:08.880 I would also say experiential learning is very important.

00:35:11.700 So a lot of times when I get phone calls from, again, I'm mostly in the construction trades,

00:35:16.480 I'll get phone calls from contractors.

00:35:18.460 I won't hear a lot about the content we teach, but it will be more about the employability skills.

00:35:23.440 So learning how to communicate, be punctual, critically think, and kind of develop your

00:35:28.640 own plan.

00:35:29.200 So I think that those are all key items for a student to get into the field.

00:35:33.340 And then any kind of industry credential that you could have is huge because it shows that

00:35:37.460 you're eager and willing to learn and you're vested in your career.

00:35:44.360 Have you seen other states come out to CTEX to take a look at it and see if they could replicate

00:35:48.760 something that you guys have?

00:35:49.920 Because I imagine other states are seeing the pent-up demand and the decrease of supply

00:35:54.080 and skilled labor, and they're probably wanting to do something.

00:35:56.640 Are you seeing an interest in CTEX from other states?

00:35:59.860 Yeah, we have.

00:36:00.600 We also participate in what's called NEASC, which is an accreditation.

00:36:04.220 And each school in New England has this.

00:36:06.400 So we will actually go to their schools and they'll come to our schools to complete this

00:36:10.900 accreditation.

00:36:11.580 So there's a lot of collaboration in that.

00:36:13.920 But yeah, we consistently will collaborate with, especially schools in Massachusetts,

00:36:18.960 because we're so close.

00:36:20.160 We will go up and they'll come down and we'll kind of collaborate.

00:36:23.900 Yeah.

00:36:24.360 I'd love for Oklahoma to do something like this.

00:36:26.260 This would be great.

00:36:27.160 I'd love to have an option like that for my kids.

00:36:29.380 I'm curious.

00:36:30.020 I mean, are there any students that you're in your experience of doing this for, I mean,

00:36:33.920 you've been doing this for a long time that really stay like,

00:36:35.740 it has nothing specific, but is there like a story where you're like, man, this, this

00:36:39.880 is just really cool that I saw this person, this kid who went to the exploratory thing.

00:36:45.420 They picked up this thing that they probably never thought they would, they'd have an interest

00:36:49.520 in this trade.

00:36:50.400 And if they've made a rewarding career out of it.

00:36:53.380 I see a lot of that.

00:36:54.840 I've stayed pretty close with my students.

00:36:57.520 My first year teaching, and I won't use any names, but my first year teaching at CTEX,

00:37:01.560 I had a student that was much like myself when I was a kid, you could tell he was figuring

00:37:07.040 out how to act, we'll say.

00:37:08.980 And he Facebook friended me probably two months ago and he owns his own concrete business now.

00:37:14.640 He seems very successful, married, has a kid.

00:37:17.360 So something like that, where, you know, who knows where he would have been if, if he didn't

00:37:22.460 get the skills he needed to work in construction.

00:37:25.280 Now he owns his own business.

00:37:26.400 I mean, I think that that's, that one resonates with me and I have a lot of experiences just

00:37:31.440 like that one.

00:37:32.460 So Brent, I think we did a good job of talking big picture what CTEX is about.

00:37:35.160 Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you think it's important that people

00:37:38.140 understand about CTEX?

00:37:39.480 Like what makes it unique or something we haven't hit on so far in our conversation?

00:37:43.920 Well, one, one thing is our trade staff.

00:37:47.000 I think that's pretty unique and I didn't bring it up prior to this, but in order to be a trade

00:37:52.420 teacher for CTEX, and again, this is pretty unique for our district, you have to be a

00:37:58.600 trades person.

00:37:59.940 So since I've been in this role, I've probably hired, I don't know, close to 20 teachers and

00:38:05.880 none of them had to have education on education.

00:38:09.540 So in order to become a teacher for us, you'd have to have, if it's a licensed field, the

00:38:13.700 appropriate license, but you have to have a minimum of eight years in the field.

00:38:17.240 So every one of our trade teachers has done this job.

00:38:19.780 So they didn't go to college to be a carpentry teacher, you know, and just learn it theoretically.

00:38:26.120 They were in the field.

00:38:27.620 They were hopefully successful in the field and then kind of made the switch to teaching.

00:38:33.440 Then once they come to teach for us, there's 30 credits worth of college that they'll take.

00:38:39.380 And this is all on how to work with students with special needs, how to create lessons and

00:38:44.620 all that kind of stuff.

00:38:45.500 But they get that on the back end because that trade experience is key.

00:38:51.340 So you have to have the, you know, you have to be able to, you know, talk the talk and

00:38:57.160 walk the walk.

00:38:57.900 So it's really important that they have that.

00:39:00.040 But I think that that's unique because I think most people attribute a trade teacher to what

00:39:04.920 they took in a typical high school.

00:39:06.660 Like you were talking about woodshop or auto.

00:39:09.100 And in many of those cases, that person went and got their master's in vocational education,

00:39:13.820 but did not work in that field.

00:39:15.780 But it's not like that with us.

00:39:17.840 Is there a lot of interest from people in the trades to teach for CTEX?

00:39:21.200 It ebbs and flows, you know, with the industry itself.

00:39:24.880 So I can tell you when the housing crisis in 2008, yeah, there was a lot of people who wanted

00:39:29.900 to be teachers.

00:39:31.060 Right now, probably fewer because there's just so much work out there.

00:39:35.060 And it's a little daunting too, because it's a complete shift.

00:39:38.920 If you're working in the field every day, and now you have 18 smiling faces at you, hopefully

00:39:43.960 every day, it is a shift.

00:39:46.400 But yeah, we don't have a huge issue filling our positions, but it's not like all the applicants

00:39:52.180 that you would get for an English or a math position.

00:39:55.140 Well, Brennan, this has been a great conversation.

00:39:56.580 Where can people go to learn more about CTEX?

00:39:59.160 So they can go to our website, cttech.org, ctex.org.

00:40:03.900 Or they could follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Connecticut Technical Education and Career

00:40:09.040 System.

00:40:10.140 And employers out there or industry reps can reach out to our Career Center, which is also

00:40:14.880 linked on our website.

00:40:16.640 Fantastic.

00:40:16.780 Well, Brent McCartney, thanks for your time.

00:40:17.860 It's been a pleasure.

00:40:18.880 Thank you.

00:40:19.440 I appreciate you having me.

00:40:21.600 My guest here is Brent McCartney.

00:40:22.740 He's an education consultant at the Connecticut Technical Education and Career System, or CTEX.

00:40:27.260 You can find more information about CTEX at cttech.org.

00:40:31.960 Also, check out our show notes at aom.is slash ctex, that's C-T-E-C-S, where you can find

00:40:37.400 links to resources and we can delve deeper into this topic.

00:40:46.900 Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM Podcast.

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00:41:09.240 And until next time, it's Brent McKay, reminding you to not listen to the AOM Podcast, but put

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00:41:14.260 Thank you.

00:41:14.520 Thank you.

00:41:14.920 Thank you.

The Art of Manliness - July 17, 2023

Here's What It Could Look Like to Put the Trades Back in School

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