The Art of Manliness - How to Use Digital Body Language to Build Trust and Connection

00:00:00.000 I'm Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:11.180 Three quarters of our face-to-face communication with other people is given through nonverbal

00:00:15.100 cues.

00:00:15.700 The way we smile, hold our arms, raise or lower our voice, and so on.

00:00:19.020 This body language is what helps us to make a good impression, build rapport, and collaborate

00:00:23.160 and create with others.

00:00:24.280 It's no wonder, then, that an age where so much of our communication has moved to the

00:00:27.780 digital realm, which is largely devoid of this body language, misunderstandings and miscommunications

00:00:32.400 are so common.

00:00:33.680 My guests would say that the key to improving our digital communication is to translate the

00:00:37.580 body language of the physical world into our text, emails, and calls.

00:00:41.140 Her name is Erica Dewan, and she's a leadership consultant and speaker, as well as the author

00:00:44.840 of Digital Body Language, How to Build Trust and Connection No Matter the Distance.

00:00:48.820 Today on the show, Eric explains the way things like how long it takes to respond to a text,

00:00:52.560 what punctuation you use in your messages, and how you sign up for emails can all affect

00:00:56.180 the impression you make in your personal and professional relationships.

00:00:59.480 We discuss the significance of exclamation points in digital communication, using the

00:01:03.080 example of how putting one after the word sure can convey a different meaning than using

00:01:07.000 an ellipses or nothing at all.

00:01:08.480 Erica then gives her take on if and when to use emojis.

00:01:11.180 From there, we turn to how to avoid putting passive aggression into your messages and how

00:01:14.840 to deal with receiving messages that feel laden with such.

00:01:17.460 We then unpack the best way to sign up for emails, and then Erica explains how to choose

00:01:20.760 the right communication channel, whether it's text, email, video, or phone, for your

00:01:24.540 communication, and the expectations as to how quickly you should respond to messages that

00:01:28.480 are received on each respective medium.

00:01:30.260 And we enter a conversation with what to do when someone's digital communication style

00:01:33.420 leaves you frustrated or confused.

00:01:35.400 After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash digital body language.

00:01:50.220 Erica Duan, welcome to the show.

00:01:52.220 It's great to be here.

00:01:53.500 So you got a book out called Digital Body Language, How to Build Trust and Connection

00:01:57.400 No Matter the Distance.

00:01:58.480 And this is all about how we communicate online.

00:02:01.780 I'm sure everyone who's listening to this podcast right now has had an experience where

00:02:05.440 their online communication, there's been some sort of miscommunication, or they've been

00:02:10.840 anxious about something or some sort of misunderstanding that's caused anger.

00:02:14.940 What is it about digital communication that causes emotions like uncertainty, self-doubt,

00:02:21.220 anger, etc.?

00:02:23.160 Well, research shows that roughly 60% to 80% of our face-to-face communication is our nonverbal

00:02:28.680 body language.

00:02:29.920 Pacing, pauses, gestures, tone.

00:02:32.560 In a digital world, what's happened is body language hasn't disappeared.

00:02:36.740 It is transformed.

00:02:38.200 We now infuse digital signals and cues.

00:02:41.960 But in today's world, most of us are doing it blindly, accidentally, or just plain wrong.

00:02:46.840 And that's what's creating so much miscommunication at work.

00:02:50.800 So what are some real-world examples that you've encountered of the kinds of things that

00:02:54.420 can happen as part of digital communication going wrong?

00:02:57.740 Let's talk about personal stories to start.

00:03:00.480 I'll give you an example.

00:03:02.080 Laura and Dave had been going out for three years when they got into a fight exclusively

00:03:07.740 by text message.

00:03:09.640 Now, Laura was really frustrated.

00:03:11.240 Finally, she tapped out and sent her boyfriend, Dave, a text saying, so are we through, question

00:03:17.360 mark?

00:03:18.040 And Dave responded, I guess so, dot, dot, dot.

00:03:21.460 Now, Laura was devastated after this.

00:03:23.700 She called in sick to work the next day.

00:03:25.440 She grieved the loss of her relationship.

00:03:27.820 She told some of her friends.

00:03:29.680 And the next day, Dave appeared on her doorstep.

00:03:33.380 And Laura was puffy-eyed.

00:03:34.880 She answered the door.

00:03:36.160 And Dave said, did you forget about our dinner that we planned a few days ago?

00:03:39.700 And Laura said, I thought you said we were through.

00:03:42.640 And Dave said, I thought we were through arguing, not as in you and me.

00:03:46.560 This is just a perfect example to show that in today's digital world, what we say isn't

00:03:51.680 always what we mean.

00:03:53.200 But we also experience this all the time, whether it's ambiguous text messages from a boss saying,

00:03:59.220 what does this mean, question mark?

00:04:00.600 Or get this done now with an exclamation point.

00:04:03.320 Or that weird confusion and formality if someone has continuous back and forth emails to you that

00:04:10.440 are very informal.

00:04:11.480 But then all of a sudden, they start using dear Erica and best regards.

00:04:16.140 You start to wonder what's going on.

00:04:18.560 All right.

00:04:18.700 So I think we're all familiar with the idea of body language and nonverbal cues that happen

00:04:22.460 in face-to-face communication.

00:04:24.060 There's eye contact.

00:04:25.000 You cross your arms.

00:04:26.060 You said earlier, like the cadence and the pace of the communication.

00:04:29.040 How would you describe the parallel world of digital body language?

00:04:33.380 I mean, is it an entirely different category?

00:04:35.460 Or is it something that, can you translate physical body language to digital body language?

00:04:42.100 So we all know what a handshake, a head nod, an eye roll, a smile really mean in our world

00:04:47.780 of physical body language.

00:04:49.320 But there are digital body language signals that translate.

00:04:52.860 So let's talk about a few examples.

00:04:55.260 First, trust.

00:04:56.120 So in a traditional body language world, we show trust through keeping our palms open,

00:05:00.680 maybe uncrossing our arms and legs, smiling.

00:05:03.980 In a digital world, we may use language that's clear and direct with a firm subject line.

00:05:10.580 We may start a message with, hope this helps, or I'm so excited to work with you.

00:05:16.060 We may mirror the sender's use of emojis in informal punctuation.

00:05:20.100 If they throw in an emoji, we may start to do it as well.

00:05:23.300 Now let's share another example.

00:05:24.860 In a world of traditional body language, we show excitement by speaking quickly, raising

00:05:30.940 our voice, maybe tapping our fingers, raising our eyebrows.

00:05:35.500 In a digital world, we may use exclamation points or capitalization.

00:05:40.700 We may prioritize a quick response time to a text.

00:05:43.940 Sometimes we'll even send multiple messages in a row, a text, an email, and maybe even call.

00:05:49.200 When it comes to urgency, in a world of traditional body language, we may raise our voice or speak quickly.

00:05:55.500 In a world of digital body language, we may use multiple exclamation marks or all caps in a text.

00:06:01.580 Okay, so let's dig into some of the details of digital body language.

00:06:06.560 As you said, we have basically been translating physical body language into digital body language,

00:06:13.800 but no one's really talking about it.

00:06:15.960 And I think everyone's on different pages on what's appropriate or what one thing means.

00:06:20.220 But I think after, I don't know what, coming on 30 years of email and digital communication,

00:06:25.980 we're starting to set on some norms.

00:06:27.560 And you basically, in this book, try to make them explicit.

00:06:29.860 So one way that we can convey digital body language is our use of punctuation marks.

00:06:35.480 An example, I think, will kind of show how a single punctuation mark can change the meaning of a word.

00:06:41.420 Let's use the word sure.

00:06:42.800 So let's talk about like a sure followed by a period.

00:06:45.240 Like, what does that convey?

00:06:47.340 No, well, we all know that in today's world, a period is not just a period anymore.

00:06:53.600 It can mean something else entirely.

00:06:56.100 So if someone asks, you know, can you watch my dog for the night?

00:06:59.940 And you reply, sure.

00:07:01.620 If there's a period at the end of that text in that sure, some may think, do they really want to do this?

00:07:08.300 Do they think this is a pain, but they'll do it, but they'll resent us the whole time.

00:07:12.100 But if it was a sure with an exclamation point, you would think that might convey excitement or even eagerness.

00:07:18.480 Now, if it was a sure with multiple periods and ellipses, dot, dot, dot, you may start to think, is that passive aggressiveness?

00:07:26.440 Is someone going to resent me?

00:07:28.700 And so in today's world, what we have to remember is that punctuation can mean different things.

00:07:34.860 For some, an all caps message can mean excitement.

00:07:38.540 It can mean urgency or it can mean shouting.

00:07:41.640 A period at the end of a text for some, especially digital natives, can feel like passive aggressiveness.

00:07:47.580 And for others, it can just be good grammar.

00:07:50.400 And even simple things like question marks, when you use one, it can feel like a simple question.

00:07:55.600 But when you use four, it can sometimes feel accusatory.

00:07:59.880 What is like ending a sentence without a punctuation mark?

00:08:02.200 What does that convey?

00:08:03.000 So if I just said sure, nothing after that.

00:08:05.620 Now, our punctuation is used differently depending on the channel we use.

00:08:10.740 And different channels define the informality you can have.

00:08:14.620 When it comes to texting and informal messaging, it's much more common to actually not use a period at the end of a statement and to keep it informal.

00:08:24.460 And in many ways, that is the equivalent to a sure with a period at the end of an email.

00:08:29.860 So research has shown that actually when you put a period at the end of a text, it can seem a bit passive aggressive or potentially signal frustration.

00:08:38.360 But when you put it at the end of an email or a PowerPoint presentation, it's just thoughtful grammar.

00:08:44.920 Okay.

00:08:45.300 So yeah, that's another thing.

00:08:47.220 Depending on the mode of communication, the punctuation can mean something different.

00:08:50.660 So that can get complicated.

00:08:52.020 Well, you mentioned exclamation points, and I've noticed this over the years that people have just been using exclamation points like out the wazoo.

00:09:00.700 Like you can't have an email without having two or three exclamation points.

00:09:05.000 So you mentioned earlier, like I think we all think of exclamation points when you grew up and when you went to school as like to convey urgency or something important.

00:09:12.380 But now it means something different.

00:09:13.860 What does that mean now?

00:09:14.680 So when we were all face-to-face, we knew how to show a sense of excitement or urgency by furrowing our brows, tapping our fingers, speaking rapidly, or smiling.

00:09:27.200 Now, in today's world, I like to say that exclamation points do a lot of that for us and can convey everything from friendliness to excitement to sometimes even urgency.

00:09:39.340 And in many cases, they have become so obligatory, especially in emails, that they have become so obligatory.

00:09:44.680 That sometimes people feel the risk of coming off as brusque or cold if they don't use them.

00:09:49.980 My general rule of thumb when it comes to exclamation points is to really understand what an exclamation point can mean.

00:09:57.380 Will Schwabble, who's the author of the book Send, always says that the exclamation point is the quickest and easiest ways to kick things up a notch.

00:10:05.960 So it can add velocity to your words.

00:10:08.400 It can also be a sincerity marker.

00:10:10.520 You know, instead of saying, I really like what you said, when you just say, I like what you said, with two exclamation points, it cuts out the really because it shows that enthusiasm.

00:10:23.180 Now, one of the things that I think is important about exclamation points is that the number that you use is also important.

00:10:30.020 So if you use one exclamation point, that might mean basic enthusiasm.

00:10:34.320 But if you use two or three, sometimes it can feel sarcastic.

00:10:38.540 Sometimes it can feel potentially like shouting or urgency.

00:10:42.400 And if you use, say, four or five, in certain cases, depending on the relationship, it can feel like hyper excitement.

00:10:48.620 And in other cases, it can feel like incredible anxiousness.

00:10:52.160 Do you find that men are more hesitant to use the exclamation mark as a sign of excitement?

00:10:57.980 Research shows that women feel compelled to use exclamation points to come across as friendly, warm, or approachable.

00:11:05.880 Whereas men tend to not use them as much in that way.

00:11:10.560 They tend to use them more to signal urgency.

00:11:13.480 And so what I think is interesting is similar to traditional body language differences across genders like voice pitch and up-talking.

00:11:21.760 What research shows is that women do feel more pressure to use exclamations. 0.71

00:11:26.120 And my general lesson from that is this is a moment to be aware of some of those biases,

00:11:31.160 to encourage women to not feel so pressured, to pepper their words with exclamation marks,

00:11:36.400 but maybe also to encourage men to not be afraid to throw in that exclamation or even an emoji when it can actually deepen a digital relationship.

00:11:45.420 So I think the takeaway here is to realize if you don't use exclamation points, then things like,

00:11:49.240 sure, that's fine, got it, sounds good, okay.

00:11:55.040 It can sound cold, flat, and even angry.

00:11:57.800 So unless you're actually trying to convey that you're angry or you're put out,

00:12:01.220 you should use exclamation points, even if you're a dude, to convey friendliness and sincerity.

00:12:05.700 And I find that's actually useful to put exclamation points in text and emails where someone says,

00:12:10.320 sure, exclamation point, or you got it, exclamation point.

00:12:13.820 Just keeps things friendly.

00:12:14.860 But you've got to be judicious with them.

00:12:16.720 Don't want to go crazy with it.

00:12:18.020 You just need one exclamation point, not multiple.

00:12:20.580 Too many in a row can just sound immature or a little too intense.

00:12:24.880 All right.

00:12:25.020 So you also mentioned emoticons or emojis.

00:12:27.600 What's your approach to using them?

00:12:29.020 Should we use them or should we not?

00:12:31.360 Now, emojis have become an essential shortcut in showcasing what I'll describe as our facial expressions,

00:12:38.400 happiness, sadness, anger, enthusiasm.

00:12:40.760 And if you didn't think emojis were important, well, in 2015, the Oxford English Dictionary revealed the word of the year.

00:12:49.000 It was the face with tears of joy emoji.

00:12:51.960 So when it comes to emojis today, I'm actually a big fan of them.

00:12:56.060 But I believe that we have to think before we emoji.

00:13:00.060 Different people read into emojis differently.

00:13:02.820 And it depends on two other questions.

00:13:04.780 The first is, who has more or less power here?

00:13:07.500 And secondly, how much do you trust each other?

00:13:09.580 Now, if you have less power in a relationship and it's a new digital relationship, you may want to err on the side of formality first.

00:13:17.520 Maybe not throw in emojis.

00:13:19.160 If you are someone who has more power, you can actually use emojis to deepen trust and empathy with someone, especially if they may be younger.

00:13:27.400 Now, the second level is trust levels.

00:13:29.520 Is there high trust?

00:13:30.500 Maybe using emojis can actually be very beneficial to showcase good intent in a short message by email or text.

00:13:37.560 But if there's low trust, you may want to err on the side of formality.

00:13:41.660 Now, research does show that there are also gender dynamics when it comes to emojis. 0.88

00:13:46.640 In fact, one study showed that the overuse of emojis by women tended to signal incompetence. 1.00

00:13:54.420 Whereas when men used emojis, they were more likely to signal friendliness.

00:13:58.400 And if you didn't think emojis just mattered across genders, they also matter across cultures.

00:14:04.000 In fact, the thumbs up emoji in Western nations is a signal of agreement or approval.

00:14:10.740 But in countries like Nigeria and Afghanistan, it's a vulgar or offensive emoji.

00:14:16.080 So make sure you think before you emoji across cultures as well.

00:14:19.080 Yeah, I've naturally, I was sort of emoji averse, you know, decade ago when people first started using them.

00:14:25.940 But I've started to use them like in my text communication with like friends and family.

00:14:29.400 And I think it's about being authentic to your own style.

00:14:32.940 But what is powerful about emojis is they can be a shortcut to showcase that good intent, excitement, sadness, frustration, or happiness.

00:14:41.460 And similar to the ways that we never used phrases like, my bad or awesome, maybe five to ten years ago, even in the workplace.

00:14:49.460 Today, I'd actually argue, especially when there's a small power or trust gap, it's actually very beneficial to use emojis even at work.

00:14:58.140 But again, you might want to wait until you kind of figure out the dynamics at that place.

00:15:02.760 You know, if you're first coming in, maybe not lead with the emoji to your boss.

00:15:06.480 But maybe after a few months, you developed a relationship with them, then bring in the emojis.

00:15:11.460 That's right.

00:15:12.480 Think before you emoji and just simply know your audience.

00:15:15.880 Using emojis with a team you work with daily can be incredibly beneficial.

00:15:19.760 But maybe with a new client prospect, err on the side of formality.

00:15:23.680 Formality.

00:15:24.080 All right.

00:15:24.480 Let's talk about passive aggression in digital communication.

00:15:28.280 I think a lot of times when you read a text, the person sending the text might think, well, this isn't, this is just neutral.

00:15:34.220 But the person reading it, it's like, wow, it's really passive aggressive.

00:15:37.420 And then also you can intentionally put passive aggression into a digital communication.

00:15:41.580 How can you, how does that happen?

00:15:43.840 Well, we've all received messages like, per my last email, and we weren't sure whether they were just reminding us of something we discussed or they were saying, pay attention this time.

00:15:53.700 Or one of my favorites, just to be sure we're on the same page.

00:15:57.460 I never know whether that's, you know, a quick reminder of what we discussed or, you know, you are not doing what I told and I don't want you to make a mistake again.

00:16:07.500 Now, passive aggressiveness or assumptions that someone is passive aggressive have shot up, especially in digital messages because of the ambiguity and the loss of traditional body language.

00:16:18.040 Now, when it comes to dealing with passive aggressive messages, I have three recommendations.

00:16:23.560 The first is avoid responding to these passive aggressive messages when you're angry or frustrated.

00:16:29.320 It can cause more mistakes if you are already emotionally hijacked.

00:16:33.900 Do simple things like save your message as a draft and then send it when you're in a better mood.

00:16:38.460 It can be really helpful.

00:16:40.060 The second is stay in the place of reason.

00:16:42.320 Sometimes people are just rushing or they're confused or they don't actually read the message as carefully as you would.

00:16:49.760 So assume good intent and step into their shoes.

00:16:52.320 Maybe ask yourself, why might they have made a mistake like this?

00:16:55.940 I know a client who thought their team member was being passive aggressive, but they were just typing a short response by text because they were about to take off on an airplane.

00:17:05.360 So sometimes responding really with clarity.

00:17:07.820 If someone says, why didn't you finish this question mark, question mark, you can respond with clarity saying, you know, here was the deadline Tuesday at 10 a.m.

00:17:17.420 And imagine it's Monday.

00:17:18.680 And then just simply asking, is there anything else that you need to make this project successful?

00:17:23.620 When you're quickly empathetic, it will allow others to be more empathetic with their words also.

00:17:29.120 And last but not least, try to replace imperatives, like when someone writes, do this, with conditional phrases, like, could you do this?

00:17:38.340 Or start with a thoughtful message to recognize them, like, excellent job on this.

00:17:44.260 Could you help us do this now?

00:17:46.100 Or thank you so much for your hard work.

00:17:48.460 Could we try to adjust or make these edits moving forward?

00:17:51.880 And that can often try to soften up what may seem passive aggressive and enable everyone to get on the same page and see that good intent.

00:18:01.320 We're going to take a quick break for your word from our sponsors.

00:18:05.580 And now back to the show.

00:18:07.440 Okay, let's talk about emails.

00:18:09.020 And one area where it can pay to think about your digital body language is with how you close an email.

00:18:14.280 So we're talking about that last line, your valediction or your signature.

00:18:17.260 And you cited a really interesting study in the book that found that closing an email that was soliciting assistance with a, thanks so much, exclamation point, made people twice as likely to offer help.

00:18:28.500 So if the close of an email can have such an outsized effect on how it's received, what should people know in general about how to best in their emails?

00:18:35.980 Now, every time we send or sign off an email, we're answering two other questions that guide the signals we send.

00:18:43.840 As I mentioned earlier, they are, who has more or less power?

00:18:47.760 And secondly, how much do we trust each other?

00:18:50.480 And answering those two questions very quickly will allow you to make sure that you sign off your messages in the way that best meets and engages that recipient.

00:19:00.340 So for example, if you have more power in a situation, you may want to be thoughtful about signing off in a positive tone to build that chemistry with someone who has less power.

00:19:10.880 Or maybe a quick thank you so much for your hard work, or I really appreciate it, and then sign off your message.

00:19:16.920 If you're someone who has less power and you're trying to build a good repertoire, you may want to err on the side of formality here, ending with best or regards, ending with is there anything else that you need to show that engagement?

00:19:29.220 The second is trust level.

00:19:31.140 So if there's high trust, perhaps a team member, a colleague you've worked with for years, maybe you don't need to sweat it.

00:19:38.440 And you can just get to the point with many of my team members.

00:19:41.280 I just end my messages with E.

00:19:43.380 I don't write Erica.

00:19:44.600 I don't write best Erica.

00:19:45.920 I just get to the point quickly because I know they know I have their best intentions.

00:19:50.620 And if there's low trust, again, err on the side of formality.

00:19:54.260 Be thoughtful.

00:19:54.900 Maybe sometimes you may want to be a bit more formal, whether it's best or regards or sincerely.

00:20:01.080 What you can also do is mirror their digital body language and how they sign off their messages as well.

00:20:07.180 So throughout the book, you've peppered it with these small sections with some quick tips on digital body language.

00:20:12.220 And in one, you have common interpretations for our most used email signatures.

00:20:16.480 So you say there, the first one is no signature.

00:20:19.440 This is when you don't even put your name at the end of an email.

00:20:22.060 That's the equivalent of awkwardly walking out of a room, leaving everyone wondering if you accidentally hit send with your elbow or if you're just ill-mannered.

00:20:29.560 Next one is just your name, no send off.

00:20:32.100 This should only be used when you're very familiar with your recipient or have been communicating back and forth in an email chain for more than three or four messages.

00:20:39.140 Next one is best.

00:20:40.380 This is a semi-formal, easy closing.

00:20:42.660 The person wants you to think she's nice and professional.

00:20:44.800 For newer relationships, opt for the more formal best wishes or best regards.

00:20:49.060 I'm a fan of the best regards, I use it a lot.

00:20:51.440 Then you got regards, somewhat outdated.

00:20:53.340 This closing is more or less neutral, but it can come across to some as distant.

00:20:56.940 Then you have love.

00:20:58.200 This is inappropriate for the workplace.

00:20:59.820 Even if it's your best friend at work, don't do it.

00:21:02.620 And you have sincerely.

00:21:04.060 The formal closing is commonly used by those on a lower rung of the corporate ladder communicating with their boss's boss.

00:21:10.040 If it's not, it's probably a PR person addressing a crisis.

00:21:12.640 If you don't fit into these categories, using sincerely is too formal and in fact may make you seem insincere.

00:21:19.980 All right.

00:21:20.280 Sincerely can make you look insincere.

00:21:22.260 Then you got talk soon.

00:21:23.400 I like this one for action-oriented emails or for emails that include some kind of prep work for an upcoming meeting or phone call.

00:21:29.180 It's smart, casual, practical, and friendly, but not too friendly.

00:21:33.560 And then finally, you have thanks in advance.

00:21:35.320 This has actually been shown to be the most effective email closing around.

00:21:38.340 Thanks in advance.

00:21:39.000 All right.

00:21:39.180 So there you go.

00:21:39.740 Some things to think through with your signature of an email.

00:21:42.900 And I imagine the opening or greeting of an email is a similar thing, like where you want to think through things like the power dynamic and the trust level and things like that.

00:21:51.840 Absolutely.

00:21:53.360 You know, in many ways, I think there's parallels between our email greetings and our signatures.

00:21:58.240 If we write dear at the top, we may often end with regards or best.

00:22:03.700 And these really signal that semi-formal to formal start and closings.

00:22:09.180 We want others to see us as nice and professional, almost like dressing up in a workplace, wearing a suit or formal attire.

00:22:16.660 Now, if we send a message where we actually have no greeting at the top, maybe we use words like E, like I would, for my own team member, and then have no send-off, this is a signal that we are very familiar with our recipient.

00:22:31.260 It's like a communication back and forth, almost like a quick chat.

00:22:35.080 I know individuals that will write their entire email in the subject line to me so that they're direct and to the point.

00:22:40.680 And for us, it's actually a kinship.

00:22:43.240 It showcases our familiarity with one another.

00:22:45.360 And then there are certain other signals that can be more informal and, in many cases, be a bit more inappropriate for the workplace, but very effective in, say, family relationships, ending a message with love and starting a message with more an informal nickname for someone.

00:23:05.140 So, again, it goes back to signals of informality to formality and trust levels.

00:23:10.800 All right, so something that you argue in the book is that reading carefully is the new listening.

00:23:16.560 So, how can things go awry when you don't read people's messages carefully, and how can folks do better in this area?

00:23:22.160 I'll never forget an experience.

00:23:24.480 I sent a text message to a client saying, do you want to speak Wednesday or Thursday?

00:23:29.820 And his response was, yes.

00:23:31.760 Let me share two tips to make sure that you are thoughtful in how you read carefully, which is the new listening.

00:23:39.380 Number one, when you are reading messages, hold your horses.

00:23:43.660 Less haste equals more speed.

00:23:45.440 Don't rush through it so quickly that you may miss what someone needs from you, or you may read into something, so specifically one line, and end up reacting in a negative way.

00:23:56.040 And secondly, always ask yourself, when you are responding to a message, are you responding in the right medium?

00:24:03.180 Are you using the right tone back?

00:24:05.520 And are you giving your recipient exactly what they need, which really showcases that you listened?

00:24:11.620 Right, so yeah, reading carefully is the new listening.

00:24:13.820 Then, as you said, making sure that you write clearly and give everything that the person needs.

00:24:18.700 You call it the new empathy.

00:24:19.820 Like, you're thinking about what they need and trying to figure out, did I convey what I needed to convey in the way that's appropriate so they're going to get the message.

00:24:27.920 That's right.

00:24:28.720 If reading carefully is the new listening, writing clearly is the new empathy.

00:24:33.040 And there are a couple things that we can do to really make sure we show that empathy in how we write.

00:24:37.840 The first is to be tone-deafed, not tone-deaf.

00:24:41.560 You know, if someone stays up all night working on a deliverable for us, and they used to see us face-to-face when they gave us that deliverable the next day, we showed them a smile, an exhale, a relief in our face, they felt appreciated.

00:24:55.800 Now, if we just write a K period, or we don't respond at all, they may not feel as valued or appreciated.

00:25:03.060 Take the time to remember that our messages are visual in nature.

00:25:07.940 Show radical recognition.

00:25:09.400 Remember that the THX period doesn't always showcase that recognition.

00:25:14.080 Be thoughtful that people read emails like they read websites, bullet points, bold and underlined headings can be incredibly effective.

00:25:21.580 Make sure you have a clear subject line, especially in emails, that gets to the point.

00:25:25.620 Is this an FYI?

00:25:27.020 Is it a work request?

00:25:28.540 And make sure that your messages are scannable.

00:25:31.780 So attach screenshots if someone needs to read something.

00:25:35.880 Make sure that you don't have vague questions, but you present options.

00:25:39.940 Do you want us to do A, B, or C?

00:25:42.000 And that can really allow individuals to answer back emails.

00:25:46.100 And if it's not clear, to know when also to schedule a phone call or a video call.

00:25:50.700 And I just said, you might think, people might hear this, well, I just don't have enough time to, like, read every message clearly and write, you know, everything clearly.

00:25:58.240 But as you make the case, like, well, you're going to save yourself time because you're not going to have to deal with all the, well, I actually meant this and blah, blah, blah.

00:26:05.080 You don't have to deal with that because you just took care of it from the get-go.

00:26:07.680 I think it's very simple.

00:26:10.260 If we ask ourselves three questions, am I using the right tone?

00:26:14.240 Is it clear what the recipient needs to do next?

00:26:16.940 And am I using the right medium?

00:26:19.420 Should this be a phone call instead of an email?

00:26:22.740 Those three questions can help us more quickly actually respond rather than ruminating around ambiguous messages.

00:26:29.760 I think this is also a great point to talk about, that in many cases, a phone call is worth a thousand emails.

00:26:35.680 Oftentimes, we resort to emails as the default, but there are many cases where nuance really has to happen by phone or by video call.

00:26:44.500 I'm not promoting endless Zoom calls here.

00:26:47.180 What I'm promoting is those quick five-minute touch points that can clarify issues in those multiple reply-all chains.

00:26:54.620 Yeah, let's think about it.

00:26:55.620 There's so many different ways we can communicate.

00:26:57.620 What factors should you consider if you're trying to figure out, okay, well, this is good for a text message.

00:27:01.520 Well, this would be better for email or this would be better for a phone call.

00:27:04.600 For me, phone calls are easy.

00:27:06.180 If there's an email chain that goes beyond three or four, it's like, okay, we need to have a phone call because we'll get this resolved in two minutes.

00:27:12.920 But what about the other?

00:27:14.660 How do you decide this would be better for text or email?

00:27:17.300 What I've learned is that there are three factors we have to consider when deciding which channel to use and when to switch the channel.

00:27:25.880 So the first is the length, the, you know, the basis of the information.

00:27:30.760 Length is easiest to manage.

00:27:32.020 If it's really short, it may be just a quick text.

00:27:34.900 If it's long, multiple paragraphs, maybe it's email or maybe it's a discussion of PowerPoint slides on a video call.

00:27:43.140 The second is complexity.

00:27:44.560 Now, complexity is a bit harder to figure out, but generally bigger, broader ideas, nuanced brainstormings really involve video calls, phone calls.

00:27:55.000 If it's maybe a quick yes or no, that's completely different.

00:27:59.280 Low complex.

00:28:00.420 Opt for that quick IM or that email exchange.

00:28:03.640 And last but not least, the third factor is familiarity.

00:28:06.560 Now, familiarity refers not only to our relationship with the recipient of what we write, but also to the content of what we're saying.

00:28:14.820 So ask yourself, who is your audience?

00:28:16.520 If it's a close relationship, maybe that quick text, maybe a welcome disruption.

00:28:21.260 But in a business relationship, maybe someone that you're trying to meet for the first time, emailing or working with their assistant to get on their calendar may be more appropriate.

00:28:31.040 And you also want to consider content.

00:28:32.900 Is it personal?

00:28:33.500 Is it confidential?

00:28:34.440 Making sure you're not texting things that really are confidential.

00:28:39.100 And you're also being conscious of what should be a public group IM versus a one-on-one phone discussion.

00:28:45.620 Another consideration around using different channels that you address in the book is knowing the best time to use them in order to get a response.

00:28:52.000 And I thought this was really useful.

00:28:52.920 You say this.

00:28:53.960 When calls aren't scheduled in advance, place a call at the 20-minute and 50-minute mark of an hour when others are usually finished with other calls planned at the hour or 30-minute mark.

00:29:02.780 Weekdays during normal work hours, especially mornings, are the best time to send an email that will get a reply and schedule a video call.

00:29:10.280 So I thought that's helpful to keep in mind.

00:29:12.140 And then the other thing to keep in mind with these different channels is your response time to messages.

00:29:16.760 And you say each one carries different expectations.

00:29:18.920 One of the things I learned while researching for my new book, Digital Body Language, is that different channels imply different response times.

00:29:32.440 So, for example, texting may seem much more time-sensitive and urgent.

00:29:37.840 If we don't hear back from someone by text within maybe 30 minutes to three hours, we may start to wonder whether they got our text message.

00:29:46.620 IMs may be much more appropriate within business hours to respond ASAP.

00:29:51.900 Now, email may be much more appropriate within 24 hours, depending on the industry, sometimes three to six days.

00:29:58.240 And video calls are much more based on scheduling, more priority-dependent, and have more of that lag time in scheduling and longer response times.

00:30:08.580 So you can see even there, each channel implies a different response time.

00:30:13.380 What I do believe is important is that we have to remember that there are different response time expectations in different channels.

00:30:20.820 So we want to avoid being that serial texter when information isn't really very important.

00:30:27.580 I know I've been part of those text chains that just won't stop in the middle of the day.

00:30:32.800 So sometimes I will blind the notifications of those text messages, or I'll just respond and say,

00:30:38.380 this is great, I'll get back to you on Sunday when we have more time.

00:30:42.320 Or in email with my team, I will set response time expectations.

00:30:46.220 For example, in subject lines, I'll write 4H, which means I need this in four hours, it's urgent.

00:30:52.200 Or 2D, which means I need this in two days.

00:30:55.200 So a team member knows that they shouldn't rush a response.

00:30:58.020 They should really think about it before responding.

00:31:01.520 How do you avoid setting overly high expectations with your communications?

00:31:05.120 So let's say you decide, I'm going to respond quickly.

00:31:08.860 People might come to expect, that's what's going to happen all the time.

00:31:11.100 Then if you don't do it, they're like, well, something's wrong.

00:31:13.260 So how do you manage expectations with digital communication?

00:31:18.060 Well, we've all been there.

00:31:19.660 When we've dealt with slow or no responses from someone else, and we wonder what's going on, if we did something wrong.

00:31:27.800 And then finally, we usually follow up and they say, oh, I just missed your message.

00:31:31.720 Now, when it comes to our fast-paced, real-time texting, emailing, Zoom calling world, I believe that we all need to practice the art of patient responses.

00:31:44.800 Remember when it was completely okay to respond to a voicemail within a week?

00:31:49.900 Now, if someone doesn't hear back from me within 48 hours, I think they often assume something's wrong.

00:31:55.260 Or they don't jump in on a Zoom call within one second.

00:31:58.080 We think they're on mute.

00:31:59.000 I have a few recommendations here that I think are really important.

00:32:03.480 If you're waiting for a response from someone else and you haven't heard back from them, don't jump to conclusions unless it's really critical that they reply ASAP.

00:32:12.420 Remember that people have a lot on their plates.

00:32:15.280 If you follow up, say, once or twice, make sure to switch to a different medium as well.

00:32:20.700 Maybe opt for a phone call or a text message if it's really important.

00:32:24.420 And if you're on the other side, if you need to get back to someone but you get hundreds of messages a day, here's my general recommendation.

00:32:32.040 The first is, if you can answer within 60 seconds, just respond immediately.

00:32:36.760 It can actually be very helpful.

00:32:39.020 Secondly, if it is urgent but you can't respond immediately, respond and say, I'm on it.

00:32:43.840 I'll get back to you tonight.

00:32:44.900 Or I'm working on it.

00:32:46.200 Or make an appointment with yourself on your calendar to get back to it.

00:32:50.100 And for things that lack urgency, don't stress.

00:32:52.880 You know, even if it's time blocking to catch up, I think that's totally fine.

00:32:56.500 I know people that have auto responders on their emails.

00:33:00.380 So they set expectations with others.

00:33:02.020 And with your own team, it can be helpful to set some expectations on this as well.

00:33:06.180 That if they don't hear back from you by email, it can be simply because you're in video calls all day.

00:33:12.120 And that it might be helpful to say, send a quick IM or a text if something's urgent.

00:33:17.340 The auto responder thing is interesting.

00:33:19.280 Because I don't, like for me personally, I don't mind when I get an auto responder when someone's on vacation.

00:33:23.580 But when I get one of those auto responders, because I've tried this before, but I stopped doing it because I didn't like it.

00:33:28.680 But like when I get one of those auto responders from people, someone's like, well, hey, only answer emails between this and this time.

00:33:34.340 Certainly that rubs me the wrong way.

00:33:35.700 That's why I stopped doing it.

00:33:37.400 But I'd rather just get someone like, you did this to me.

00:33:39.980 I sent you the questions we'd be discussing.

00:33:42.360 And you just, you sent a quick, thanks so much.

00:33:44.360 Appreciate it.

00:33:44.700 It's like, okay, she got it.

00:33:45.680 Like it wasn't like a read receipt.

00:33:47.440 I'd rather have that be like, hey, I can't answer this right away.

00:33:50.720 I'll get back to you in a week.

00:33:51.660 I'd rather get that than the auto responder saying, I only answer emails at 10 o'clock at night and you'll get it.

00:33:56.900 Absolutely.

00:33:57.260 I mean, I think that that quick response back saying I'm on it, even if you can't answer the question, is often very effective.

00:34:07.060 And in certain cases, speed can matter more than substance in our digital messages, especially with those that we're building new relationships with.

00:34:15.180 But at the same time, I think for those that are getting hundreds of messages a day and don't want to insult others by not responding altogether,

00:34:23.220 sometimes those auto responders can be helpful to say, if you want to book me to speak, email this person.

00:34:28.720 Or if you want to schedule a call with me, use my Calendly link.

00:34:32.620 So I actually like sometimes the auto responder where it's not just vague, but it actually has a way for me to take action, even if they don't respond in a personal way.

00:34:42.720 I like that.

00:34:43.140 I like that specific action.

00:34:44.440 I like that.

00:34:44.980 So what do you do if you're having a lot of confusion, anxiety with someone's digital communication style?

00:34:52.980 Should you say something?

00:34:55.120 And if so, how do you do so in a non-awkward way?

00:34:57.740 Now, the first thing to ask yourself is, are you using the right medium?

00:35:03.480 Is this person maybe not so great by email, but is perfect with a quick five-minute phone call discussion?

00:35:10.480 Is this someone that hates one more reply all email and would actually be much more clear and to the point within a Slack message exchange?

00:35:18.900 Actually assessing the recipient's digital body language style, not just your own style, but how they like to connect best, can help you often reduce your own anxiety and get exactly what you need from the other person.

00:35:33.440 Secondly, if you need to navigate that ambiguous message or those confusing messages from others and you feel it's a bit awkward, I really recommend to just respond with clarity, asking clarifying questions like,

00:35:46.680 can you share what you need from me or when do you need this by, will reduce a lot of that ambiguity when someone says, can you get this done?

00:35:55.560 And if you're not sure about something, ask for more details, give people options, even have a quick framework in your email of the who, what, when, so that they can actually remind themselves that maybe they should be more clear in their messages.

00:36:09.560 These are simple things that can really avoid anxiety.

00:36:12.300 But at the same time, individuals sometimes may not be as good as you in digital body language.

00:36:18.820 So remember when to simply pick up the phone to reduce a lot of that written communication confusion.

00:36:25.100 Well, Erica, this has been a great conversation.

00:36:26.560 Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?

00:36:28.840 You can check out my new book, Digital Body Language, available everywhere, Amazon, Bards and Nobles, even Audible.

00:36:34.600 And you can learn more about me at ericadewan.com, as well as the book's website at ericadewan.com slash digital body language.

00:36:43.680 All right, Erica Dewan, thanks so much for your time.

00:36:44.800 It's been a pleasure.

00:36:45.960 Thank you so much for having me.

00:36:48.260 My guest today was Erica Dewan.

00:36:49.560 She's the author of the book, Digital Body Language.

00:36:51.700 It's available on Amazon.com and bookstores everywhere.

00:36:53.980 You can find out more information about her work at our website, ericadewan.com.

00:36:57.100 Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash digital body language.

00:37:00.300 We can find links to resources where you can delve deeper into this topic.

00:37:04.600 Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM Podcast.

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00:37:44.220 Until next time, this is Brett McKay.

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00:37:49.260 Have a cool day, one day.

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The Art of Manliness - June 23, 2021

How to Use Digital Body Language to Build Trust and Connection

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