The Art of Manliness - How to Use the Principles of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to Overcome Obstacles in Business and Life

00:00:00.000 Rhett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:12.160 In Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, there are certain principles like timing, leverage, and positioning

00:00:16.080 that practitioners must master to successfully overcome an opponent.

00:00:19.740 My guest has found that these same principles that allow someone to be successful on the

00:00:23.420 mat also apply to being successful off of it.

00:00:26.080 Hinder Grace is the co-owner and head instructor of Grace University, and the author of the

00:00:30.000 32 Principles, harnessing the power of Jiu-Jitsu to succeed in business, relationships, and

00:00:35.000 life.

00:00:35.900 Today on the show, Hinder shares how he's used some of the core teachings of Jiu-Jitsu, like

00:00:39.560 the pyramid principle and the river principle, in his business, and how he can use them to

00:00:43.500 grapple with all kinds of obstacles in life.

00:00:45.840 After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash bjjprinciples.

00:01:00.000 All right, Hinder Gracie, welcome back to the show. 1.00

00:01:05.840 What a pleasure, bro.

00:01:06.900 How long has it been?

00:01:08.820 I think the last one was 2018, maybe?

00:01:12.560 I don't know.

00:01:13.180 Maybe that was the podcast, right?

00:01:14.540 But then we did those awesome videos like over 10 years ago now, right?

00:01:18.340 Yeah.

00:01:18.940 Yeah.

00:01:19.260 That was, yeah.

00:01:20.460 That's a blast from the past.

00:01:22.340 Our audience who's followed us on YouTube, they probably are aware of your Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

00:01:25.700 videos we did with you.

00:01:26.500 Yeah, in fact, those were probably, like for people getting into Jiu-Jitsu, the number

00:01:32.460 of people that have met me and cited those videos as the videos that they watched that

00:01:37.080 got them to step foot on the mat.

00:01:39.520 Like literally, it never stops happening and it never ceases to amaze me that, yo, I saw

00:01:43.560 the Art of Manliness introductory video you did to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

00:01:46.840 Got me excited.

00:01:47.680 I want to do Jiu-Jitsu now.

00:01:48.720 Now I've been training at some school out in the middle of nowhere.

00:01:50.980 It's just amazing to see how long lasting that video has been and still remains timeless

00:01:54.840 as just a genuine introduction to Jiu-Jitsu.

00:01:57.640 So thanks to you and the team for putting that together and we've benefited greatly from

00:02:00.520 that.

00:02:00.720 So thanks a lot.

00:02:01.500 Well, thank you for being a part of those videos because we've benefited a lot from those

00:02:05.320 videos as well.

00:02:06.380 Well, so you are the co-founder and CEO of Gracie University.

00:02:09.600 It's a global Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu organization that teaches students both in person and online.

00:02:16.140 And like I said, people are, I'm sure, aware of you and your family and your legacy with

00:02:21.040 BJJ, but for those who aren't familiar with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, how does it differ from

00:02:25.900 other martial arts, say like karate or judo?

00:02:28.580 Sure.

00:02:29.320 Joe Rogan said it best.

00:02:31.060 Jiu-Jitsu is the first martial art that delivers what it promises.

00:02:34.720 And what that really means is every martial art claims to give the little person the chance

00:02:39.560 to defeat and defend against a larger attacker.

00:02:42.240 That's the only reason we learn martial arts, right?

00:02:43.880 To defend ourselves against a larger, more athletic physical threat.

00:02:46.580 And Jiu-Jitsu for the last hundred years, right, really this thing started in 1925, so

00:02:51.940 we're nearing a hundred years here, has proven time and time again that a smaller person equipped

00:02:56.760 with Jiu-Jitsu can defend against and can overcome a larger adversary who doesn't know

00:03:01.440 Jiu-Jitsu.

00:03:02.460 It's that simple.

00:03:03.660 And it was proven in Brazil in the early 1900s.

00:03:07.120 My father brought the art to America as a first, you know, the oldest son of nine siblings

00:03:13.840 of my grandfather, the Grand Master, when my father brought it to America, he started

00:03:17.240 teaching out of his garage.

00:03:18.600 Every person he met, he invited for a free class.

00:03:21.180 Every one of those friends that came for a free class told their friends who told their

00:03:24.120 friends.

00:03:24.960 And the thing blew up here in a garage in Hermosa Beach, California.

00:03:28.220 In 1993, my father co-created the UFC, Ultimate Fighting Championship, with the simple

00:03:34.680 objective of putting all the different martial arts on display on pay-per-view television

00:03:39.120 so that spectators around the world could see what really works and what doesn't work

00:03:43.100 when it comes to a real fight.

00:03:44.860 My uncle, Hoist Gracie, was chosen as the family representative in UFC 1 and was intentionally

00:03:51.420 much smaller than all the other participants in the tournament, the fighting tournament.

00:03:56.340 It was an eight-man tournament.

00:03:57.400 You had to win three fights in the same night in order to win the championship.

00:04:02.060 And there was no weight classes, no time limits, and essentially no rules in terms of what

00:04:07.360 you could do in the octagon.

00:04:08.380 There was no gloves even.

00:04:09.420 People didn't have to wear gloves like they do today in mixed martial arts.

00:04:12.460 So when my uncle, Hoist, went in there as the smallest person and defeated these giants

00:04:16.120 in UFC 1, 2, and then again in UFC 4, the world was put on notice.

00:04:21.400 All of a sudden, they go, wow, this is crazy.

00:04:24.420 This little guy who looks like he's going to get pummeled is defending himself and overcoming

00:04:29.340 these giants with these beautiful nonviolent techniques of jiu-jitsu.

00:04:34.060 So basically, it was a big infomercial for jiu-jitsu, and it was successful.

00:04:39.220 At that point, the whole world is realizing if they're going to learn anything, you might

00:04:42.700 as well learn what the little guy is doing because that's going to give you the best

00:04:46.240 chance of success in a violent physical altercation against someone who outweighs you or is stronger

00:04:52.120 or younger or more athletic, faster, better endurance.

00:04:55.700 All of those physical traits can be overcome with the right amount of technique.

00:04:59.600 And the crazy part, Brett, it doesn't take that long.

00:05:01.980 So we're talking months, not years and years and years and years to learn a level of skill

00:05:07.940 that will help you stay safe against a larger opponent in a real fight.

00:05:10.740 So that's jiu-jitsu.

00:05:11.700 It's been an amazing family to be born into.

00:05:13.860 I've been learning this stuff from day one.

00:05:15.600 I didn't have a choice in this family.

00:05:16.740 You're born on the mat, basically.

00:05:18.900 Growing up, started teaching as a 13-year-old child.

00:05:22.180 So I had my first private class student as a child.

00:05:24.460 His name was Robert Mendoza Jr., five-year-old kid who was getting bullied.

00:05:27.400 And I started teaching Robert, you know, $10 for a class.

00:05:31.080 And before you know it, I'm leading kids' classes.

00:05:33.360 Then I'm teaching adults by 16, 17.

00:05:35.680 By 18, I'm in North Carolina teaching the special forces with my dad, like leading the

00:05:40.800 class with my father, teaching these guys are the highest military operatives.

00:05:45.320 And that was just the beginning.

00:05:47.140 And then before you know it, at 19 years old, my brother and I, my brother was 20, 21.

00:05:50.900 I was 19.

00:05:51.900 We were thrust into leadership roles when my Uncle Hoyce branched off to do his own thing

00:05:57.280 and left the school.

00:05:58.420 So now we're running the Gracie Academy as essentially, you know, I was a teenager.

00:06:04.580 And we had leadership roles of head instructorship and really managing the entire operation of

00:06:09.220 the school.

00:06:10.220 And that started as a kid, basically.

00:06:12.420 And now we're charged with growing this thing and figuring out how to run this business

00:06:15.520 by our father.

00:06:16.360 And we did just that.

00:06:17.280 And here we are today.

00:06:18.420 Fast forward, you know, what was that, 2002?

00:06:21.340 So yeah, 20 years I've been running the show here.

00:06:23.420 And now we're a global organization with, you know, 350,000 online students learning all

00:06:29.080 over the world, 250 locations worldwide, teaching our proprietary programs, essentially licensed

00:06:35.100 certified training centers.

00:06:36.580 And we're the preeminent organization when it comes to teaching law enforcement in America,

00:06:41.000 jujitsu-based defensive tactics and nonviolent control tactics.

00:06:44.080 So jujitsu is the craze right now, kind of circling back to where I started with this long-winded

00:06:48.860 answer.

00:06:49.720 Jujitsu is the craze right now for one reason.

00:06:51.740 It actually works.

00:06:53.500 And everyone who has a good introduction to the art by a well-qualified teacher falls head

00:07:00.140 over heels in love with it because it teaches you to do things with your body that you never

00:07:03.940 imagined were possible.

00:07:05.900 Not in a strenuous, physical demanding way, but in a resourcefulness way.

00:07:10.520 You realize that your body is capable of so much more than you ever imagined when you

00:07:15.440 teach it some technique, when you give it the proper leverage, the positioning, the timing,

00:07:19.340 and of course, all the principles that jujitsu entails.

00:07:22.740 Well, speaking of principles, you got a new book out called The 32 Principles, Harnessing

00:07:27.340 the Power of Jujitsu to Succeed in Business, Relationships, and Life.

00:07:31.100 And in this, you lay out what you call the alphabet of Brazilian jujitsu.

00:07:35.600 When did you realize in all the 20 years you've been doing this that jujitsu has these 32 principles

00:07:42.580 or this alphabet?

00:07:43.920 Sure.

00:07:44.680 So, I mean, all my life, I've learned thousands of techniques in jujitsu.

00:07:50.240 And to this day, we continue to invent new techniques, right?

00:07:52.960 So it's literally an endless martial art in terms of the individual techniques to solve

00:07:57.400 unique and specific problems in combat.

00:07:59.540 But what has always been known to any lifelong practitioner of jujitsu is that even though

00:08:04.620 there are thousands of techniques and they're always evolving, there are a set number of

00:08:08.800 principles that make all of those techniques possible.

00:08:11.840 You just kind of knew that there might be technique 1, 17, 36, and 47, but all of them have some

00:08:18.380 common themes and principles that are utilized in those techniques.

00:08:22.220 And even though we knew generally that there were some, you know, timing, right, energy

00:08:28.500 efficiency, leverage, right, control, these are some macro principles that are thrown around

00:08:33.360 loosely in jujitsu as something that is constantly present and always happening.

00:08:37.440 What we realized is that during COVID, in fact, when our school got shut down, right?

00:08:41.740 So we have this huge brick and mortar jujitsu business and we are completely shut down for

00:08:47.240 no in-person classes.

00:08:48.660 So we did some Zoom classes, but we had a lot of free time during this period.

00:08:53.360 That's when my brother and I decided to kind of dig in on the creation of a course in jujitsu,

00:09:00.100 an instructional video course for jujitsu that would aim to extrapolate and identify the core

00:09:07.240 principles, the micro principles that every technique in jujitsu relies on.

00:09:11.860 So we went for it and we studied for several months and kind of extrapolating and going over

00:09:16.440 several concepts and really identifying every move has different steps and different technique

00:09:20.240 components, but all of them rely on the same 32 core principles.

00:09:26.580 Once we realized and we've identified, we named them, we classified all of them, then we decided

00:09:31.360 let's film a video course in which we teach these principles.

00:09:35.460 If you're a beginner, this is helpful to know because from the get-go, you're learning how

00:09:40.060 to think jujitsu rather than learning how to do jujitsu.

00:09:44.860 If you're an advanced practitioner, this course would help you make sense of the thousands of

00:09:50.160 techniques you've already learned and can often be so overwhelming, right?

00:09:54.080 That simple, the sheer number of techniques that you've learned over the years, it's often

00:09:57.740 overwhelming and discouraging to some extent for advanced practitioners.

00:10:00.760 But once they understood the 32 principles, it would be a way of distilling their vast catalogs

00:10:08.500 of techniques down to these 32 core principles so you learn that essentially if you forget

00:10:13.880 a technique but you still retain the principles that make that technique possible, then when

00:10:18.820 the situation changes, you can still call on the principles even when you forget the technique.

00:10:24.780 That was the idea.

00:10:25.880 As we were doing the extrapolation process of identifying what these principles were, it

00:10:31.660 made me realize as I was going over and recording these for jujitsu purposes only, the extent to

00:10:37.940 which these same 32 principles were the ones that I had been leaning on, even though I had

00:10:44.060 not named them and classified them and organized them into a curriculum, the principles themselves

00:10:48.880 had always been there and I had been leaning on them, not just in jujitsu, but in every

00:10:55.300 aspect of my life.

00:10:58.120 So when I kind of replay my life's milestones, right, the most significant achievements, the

00:11:02.640 biggest failures, the biggest lost opportunities, the biggest breakthroughs in entrepreneurial

00:11:08.140 successes, family successes, family problems and challenges that I faced, I realized that

00:11:13.920 my entire operating system as a human being, both personally and professionally, was based

00:11:21.680 on these 32 principles that jujitsu had instilled in me over a lifelong practice of the art.

00:11:29.100 Yeah.

00:11:29.260 So you're doing jujitsu changed the way you think and approach the world.

00:11:33.320 Well, think about this, Brett.

00:11:34.820 Everyone has an operating system, right?

00:11:38.380 You have an operating system and your operating system is a function of what?

00:11:43.200 Your schooling, your experiences, your parenting, the way that you were parented, the way that

00:11:49.540 you were brought up, the community that you were brought up in.

00:11:51.880 All of your life's experiences shape the operating system that is you.

00:11:56.720 And then whatever your operating system is will determine how you react and respond to different

00:12:04.900 indicators, challenges, threats, opportunities, different stimuli in your life.

00:12:10.100 All of those will be responded to based on the conditioning of your operating system, right?

00:12:16.760 The computer is only as good as its operating system and as is true for a human being.

00:12:22.440 And what jujitsu does for us, Brett, is every single day we step on the mat, jujitsu presents

00:12:31.340 us with the most robust and the widest array of challenges, opportunities, struggles, adversities,

00:12:41.720 obstacles that you can possibly imagine.

00:12:45.320 So it's like doing jujitsu every single day teaches me how to face every challenge you can

00:12:51.820 imagine in a fight.

00:12:54.040 But the metaphorical connection between these obstacles and adversities that we face in a

00:12:58.720 fight to the obstacles that we face in everyday life could not be any clearer, right?

00:13:04.600 When people are faced with a high stress situation in life, they respond in panic.

00:13:10.160 They respond with anxiety, uncertainty, if they're not conditioned to deal with high stress encounters

00:13:15.860 in a more technical, proficient, and a strategic way.

00:13:20.440 So in jujitsu, the line goes like this.

00:13:23.940 If I can get caught in a headlock from a 200-pound man and not stress out and technically,

00:13:29.880 efficiently strategize my escape, make my escape happen, and then turn that liability into an

00:13:35.640 opportunity, if that's what my body and my brain are conditioned to do every single time I step on the mat,

00:13:42.480 imagine how my brain is going to respond and how my operating system will perform when I'm at work

00:13:49.820 and I've struggled with an interaction with a colleague, or I get spoken to by my boss in a way

00:13:54.200 that was less than favorable, or I'm at home with my wife and we're struggling to come to an agreement

00:13:59.880 on something that we should do as parents with regards to how we're parenting our child.

00:14:04.080 All of these are just challenges.

00:14:05.840 It's all about dealing with adversity, overcoming problems and adversity and obstacles in our life.

00:14:12.040 So when you dive headfirst into the regular practice of jujitsu, you become these principles.

00:14:19.440 You become this operating system that is so comfortable dealing with adversity and dealing

00:14:24.400 with the struggles and challenges that are presented in a fight, that when you apply those

00:14:28.360 same ideologies into everyday life, everything just kind of is easy.

00:14:34.140 Well, let's talk about some of these principles and how they have application beyond the mat.

00:14:37.320 And the first principle we start off with is connection.

00:14:39.980 What role does connection have in jujitsu?

00:14:42.840 Well, thanks for asking.

00:14:43.780 You know, the number one thing that I try to explain to people who are doing jujitsu for the

00:14:48.160 first time is that your body is an incredible tool or weapon, however you want to do it,

00:14:55.140 whatever connotation you want to give it.

00:14:57.220 It's much more capable than anything you've ever imagined.

00:15:00.320 It's like, imagine if you had a Swiss army knife, right?

00:15:02.800 Which has 17 different utility applications on that little Swiss army knife, but all this

00:15:09.360 time, Brett, you've only been using the knife.

00:15:11.820 And then someone told you, Brett, there are 16 other tools on this little contraption that

00:15:20.040 you can use to improve life, solve problems and overcome challenges.

00:15:23.260 You would say, holy cow, there's scissors, there's a magnifying glass, there's a toothpick,

00:15:30.600 there's tweezers, there's a nail file.

00:15:33.240 Oh my gosh, like you would lose your mind if you had been living 25, 30, 50 years thinking

00:15:38.440 that a Swiss army knife was only a knife to only then find out that you were just barely

00:15:42.860 scratching the surface.

00:15:44.280 So in jujitsu, people use their bodies to connect to their adversary in ways that you would never

00:15:51.600 imagine connecting to another person.

00:15:53.920 So when you think of connecting, you think of grappling, you think of using your hands

00:15:57.180 to grab, maybe your feet to push or kick.

00:16:00.280 And that's about it, right?

00:16:01.680 Maybe your arms to hug.

00:16:03.240 But what you learn in jujitsu is every single surface on your body serves a distinct and uniquely

00:16:11.460 effective purpose in the overall context of a fight.

00:16:15.560 So when you talk about your foot, yes, there's just a foot, right?

00:16:18.520 There's a sole of your foot that you would push with.

00:16:20.300 When you do jujitsu, we have the bottom of the foot, the sole.

00:16:24.760 We have the top of the foot, the instep.

00:16:26.760 We have the ankle, the bend of the ankle, which is used for hooking.

00:16:30.200 The instep is used for sliding.

00:16:32.240 The toes are used for digging under someone.

00:16:34.660 So I can flex my toes up and use them for digging.

00:16:36.900 My heel is used for piercing.

00:16:39.380 The Achilles behind my heel is used for hooking like a spur on a cowboy's boot.

00:16:43.700 I can hook someone's body and connect to them that way.

00:16:45.780 So just with my foot alone, you've learned five connections that you might not have otherwise

00:16:51.640 known your foot was capable of if not for the practice of jujitsu.

00:16:55.200 So what you learn through the practice of jujitsu is how to use your body in ways you never imagined

00:17:00.640 possible.

00:17:01.760 And then all you say to yourself after a little bit of practice, you go, wow, how crazy that

00:17:06.180 I was operating all that time just with the knife when in fact my body was capable of

00:17:11.960 all 17 applications that I never knew were possible.

00:17:15.600 And it's a very enlightening, empowering experience for a human being to go through after so many

00:17:21.800 years of thinking their body was capable of walking, running, jumping, and dancing.

00:17:26.460 That's what feet are for.

00:17:27.860 That's it.

00:17:28.560 No, that's just the beginning.

00:17:30.580 There's so much more.

00:17:31.600 So when I talk about the life and business application of this connection principle, what

00:17:36.800 that translates to is really diversifying and constantly improving and increasing the

00:17:42.040 tools and tactics that you're using to connect with the world, right?

00:17:47.140 So as someone who's trying to share jujitsu with the world, when I injured my back at 19

00:17:52.080 years old, 18 years old, I had a back injury, lower back injury, I suffered a herniated disc during

00:17:57.140 a training accident.

00:17:57.860 Um, I was training much crazier back then.

00:18:01.420 So the accident happened and now I'm much more intelligent about how I train and how

00:18:04.600 we teach our students.

00:18:05.300 So this doesn't happen, but it happened then, had a surgery.

00:18:08.320 I was out for 10 months during that 10 month hiatus.

00:18:10.880 I thought to myself, wow, what if I can never do jujitsu again?

00:18:13.420 What if I get hurt again when I'm 25, 27, 35, 39?

00:18:17.740 What if I get to the point where I can't teach jujitsu for the rest of my life, my tool, my

00:18:21.200 body, I can't use it.

00:18:22.660 How do I share this art with the world?

00:18:24.260 That feeling of frustration and uncertainty led to the birth of Gracie University, an interactive

00:18:31.800 online learning center in which we upload videos of every one of our unique programs so that

00:18:37.980 anyone anywhere in the world could learn everything that we've learned, my brother and I, in order

00:18:43.500 that would optimize retention and progress.

00:18:46.820 So lesson one leads into lesson two, lesson two builds on lesson one, lesson three builds

00:18:53.720 on one and two.

00:18:54.440 It's the only linear interactive online learning center for martial arts in the world where

00:19:00.380 every single lesson is built on every single previous lesson.

00:19:04.440 And as a result, students from all over the world are able to learn everything we've learned,

00:19:09.540 everything we know in jujitsu linearly from their living rooms.

00:19:12.780 So when we talk about connection, this was a situation where we enhanced the way that we're

00:19:18.440 connecting with the students and we took it one step further.

00:19:21.600 Some people complained that they didn't have a training partner in their garage.

00:19:24.840 Their wife didn't want to do it with them or their husband or their son or parents. 1.00

00:19:28.300 So they're on their own.

00:19:29.320 So we created a new classification of training center called a Gracie Garage to pay homage to

00:19:35.640 my father's days in the garage in the early 1970s and 80s.

00:19:38.520 So a Gracie Garage, Brett, is a classification on Gracie University of someone who wants to

00:19:44.240 make their home an unofficial at-home training center.

00:19:47.440 So basically, they list themselves on the website and they say, hey, this is my home.

00:19:52.080 And if you're interested, please message me through the system here and let's talk.

00:19:55.940 And if your vibe is right and my vibe vibes with yours, we're happy to invite you over

00:19:59.280 to the house for a training session.

00:20:00.660 And the number of friendships and connections that have been made amongst training partners

00:20:05.460 all over the world, Brett, because of Gracie University online learning and because of

00:20:10.080 this garage classification of an unofficial at-home training center, thousands and thousands

00:20:15.620 and thousands of networks have been made and connections have been made with each other,

00:20:19.440 students with each other.

00:20:20.600 And then it goes one step further.

00:20:22.280 These students become so in love with jujitsu from home that they then grow their skills and

00:20:27.460 develop to an effective enough, proficient enough level that they eventually aspire to become

00:20:32.280 instructors.

00:20:33.000 So they come to Torrance here at headquarters in California, get certified, then they go

00:20:38.980 home and what was a Gracie garage of 10 buddies training in the neighborhood becomes a certified

00:20:44.100 training center at a commercial location where they're now running an actual business.

00:20:49.120 And this has happened all over the world.

00:20:52.580 People started learning online and they end up opening commercial for-profit schools and now

00:20:58.020 they run successful businesses with hundreds of students and they've quit their careers to

00:21:02.300 now teach jujitsu full-time.

00:21:04.120 All of this was because when I hurt my back at 19 years old, when I had my surgery and

00:21:09.660 spent that 10 months off, I was able to think of the connection principle and really broaden

00:21:15.200 the ways in which we were connecting with and sharing jujitsu with the world.

00:21:19.860 So that's just one example of how this connection principle can really change your effectiveness,

00:21:24.900 whether it's entrepreneurial, right?

00:21:26.860 Or if it's personal, we talk about family dynamics, right?

00:21:29.380 In terms of how you're connecting with your children or your spouse, are you connecting

00:21:33.380 in ways that are meaningful for you only?

00:21:35.340 Or are you going one step further and finding connecting ways that are meaningful for your

00:21:40.080 family members so that those connections and that time together is even more meaningful

00:21:44.980 and impactful for your family?

00:21:46.500 So really, connection is about are you being creative in how you're connecting with the

00:21:51.100 people and the world around you?

00:21:52.760 Well, my daughter, Scout, she does jujitsu at Gracie Tulsa here and the head guy-

00:21:59.320 Is that with Robert Davenport?

00:22:01.120 Robert Davenport, yeah.

00:22:02.520 Oh my gosh, bro.

00:22:04.340 That's crazy because you haven't told me that she was training.

00:22:08.860 I didn't know that.

00:22:09.780 I know you were intrigued with jujitsu because of all this art of manliness stuff you've done

00:22:12.980 with us, but that's amazing and you couldn't be in better hands.

00:22:16.100 Robert is in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

00:22:18.340 He's a black belt and crazy enough, he started in a Gracie garage of his own learning online 1.00

00:22:25.420 through our university, Gracie University Online, learning from home with a bunch of

00:22:29.960 buddies.

00:22:30.660 They eventually became certified instructors.

00:22:32.880 They opened their school and then Robert had a successful technology job, quit his job

00:22:38.400 after he reached, I don't know, three, 400 students.

00:22:40.400 And now he runs one of our most successful schools.

00:22:43.340 I can't believe that your daughter is at that school.

00:22:46.780 That's so crazy, dude.

00:22:48.240 Yeah.

00:22:48.520 Well, no, because you broke your back, my daughter's doing jujitsu. 1.00

00:22:52.420 There you go.

00:22:53.040 Because I broke my back, your daughter's doing jujitsu with the most awesome instructor and

00:22:56.240 team of instructors there.

00:22:57.320 And there you go.

00:22:58.300 So this is the whole point.

00:22:59.160 And we never know, Brett, how far the impact of a new connection will take us.

00:23:04.720 That's the beautiful part.

00:23:06.000 But when you explore the full potential of your connection to the world, you never know

00:23:10.860 where you're going to end up.

00:23:11.780 And that's what I love about that principle.

00:23:13.620 We're going to take a quick break for your word from our sponsors.

00:23:17.660 And now back to the show.

00:23:19.720 I was moved to another principle and one is the pyramid principle.

00:23:22.460 So I've noticed the logo on Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, there's a triangle.

00:23:26.680 So that's pretty key.

00:23:27.960 So how does the pyramid principle give you the upper hand in a fight?

00:23:31.540 Sure.

00:23:32.260 Yeah.

00:23:32.460 So in jujitsu, base is a very important concept.

00:23:35.460 And if you look at a pyramid structure, right, with its solid foundation, it's the most stable

00:23:39.220 structure.

00:23:39.740 It's not going to get tipped over in any direction.

00:23:41.620 This is what we aim to accomplish in jujitsu as well.

00:23:43.900 No matter what position we're in, we always want to spread out our base points, right?

00:23:47.800 Typically three or four points of contact with the surface or the person that we're opposing.

00:23:53.000 And constantly stable, right?

00:23:54.760 If you have, talk about, you know, if you have a, if you have two, if you have a, let's

00:23:59.340 say someone standing on two feet, they're very pushable in forward or backwards, right?

00:24:04.460 They might be stable from side to side if you spread your base out, but you're pushable,

00:24:07.540 you're off balance forward to back.

00:24:09.460 Where when you add a third base point, let's say you put your hand down like a, like a center

00:24:14.060 in a football game, right?

00:24:15.200 That he has his hand on the ground and two feet on the ground.

00:24:17.240 That person is more connected and more grounded, has a stronger foundation than someone who

00:24:22.740 is standing upright.

00:24:24.060 Same is true if you put two hands on the ground, now you're even more stable.

00:24:27.360 So the pyramid principle essentially translates to life and business in reminding us and encouraging

00:24:33.560 us to build a strong foundation in whatever we're going to do.

00:24:37.220 And you give a lot of examples in the book of how people can create that firm foundation.

00:24:41.780 You talk about developing qualities like resilience, confidence, a strong moral compass,

00:24:47.240 because those things, they can serve you well, no matter the situation you find yourself

00:24:51.960 in.

00:24:52.660 But creating a firm foundation could be something like developing an emergency fund, right?

00:24:57.000 So you'll be ready for whatever financial curveball life throws at you.

00:25:00.580 And you also talk about applying the pyramid principle in your career or in your business

00:25:05.580 by developing new skills, or if you own a business, developing another revenue stream.

00:25:10.780 It's like adding those new skills or those new revenue streams.

00:25:13.820 It's like putting that third contact point on the mat.

00:25:18.700 There you go.

00:25:19.240 And just a general concept of having a strong foundation.

00:25:23.140 There are no shortage of analogies and hypotheticals and examples that illustrate the importance

00:25:29.940 of that in every industry you can imagine.

00:25:31.560 But it's just, again, in jiu-jitsu, it's critical.

00:25:35.220 And in life and business, those who develop the strongest foundations often have the highest

00:25:39.660 levels and longest lasting success.

00:25:41.560 Now, I've seen this in real life.

00:25:42.800 So sometimes, you know, my daughter will want to grapple with me to show me what she's learning.

00:25:47.640 And I'm impressed.

00:25:48.500 Like this little nine-year-old girl will put me in this position, like a mount position,

00:25:53.480 and I can't move her.

00:25:54.820 I'm this, you know, 200-pound dude who, you know, power lifts, and I can't move because

00:26:00.080 she's done something where I, and it's because she's got these different contact points to

00:26:04.680 the ground that gives her the strong foundation.

00:26:06.240 So I mean, it's legit.

00:26:07.280 It's legit.

00:26:08.060 Yeah, it's amazing what a little body can do with the right leverage.

00:26:10.680 And that's the beauty of jiu-jitsu.

00:26:12.500 Another principle or two principles are about timing.

00:26:15.020 It's velocity and clock.

00:26:16.560 And I like the clock principle.

00:26:17.980 You have this great story that goes along with it that applies outside the mat.

00:26:20.680 But how do you use timing in jiu-jitsu in a fight on the mat?

00:26:25.440 Well, what we always say, Brett, is the right move at the wrong time is the wrong move.

00:26:29.920 So it's one thing to learn the steps of a technique, right?

00:26:32.920 You know the right answer.

00:26:34.080 You know the move.

00:26:34.900 You know the steps.

00:26:35.520 You know the technique.

00:26:37.080 Applying that at the wrong time is as good as applying the wrong technique.

00:26:40.360 So timing is literally everything when it comes to jiu-jitsu.

00:26:44.600 I think the same could be said about life, right?

00:26:47.080 Whether you have a product or service.

00:26:48.780 When you're bringing something to market, right?

00:26:51.460 Timing matters.

00:26:54.220 And then just in terms of personal relationships, right?

00:26:57.240 When you choose to have a certain conversation with your significant other or your child,

00:27:01.900 how's their energy?

00:27:02.780 Where is it during the day?

00:27:04.140 So the right conversation at the right time is euphoric.

00:27:08.460 The right conversation at the wrong time is an absolute disaster.

00:27:11.920 We've all been guilty of trying to have the right conversation,

00:27:15.360 but doing it at the wrong time and then paying the price.

00:27:17.140 So I have one extreme example that I think illustrates this principle beautifully.

00:27:21.940 We have a student here who's a psychologist and she said,

00:27:24.700 Henner, I have a student, I have a client rather,

00:27:27.240 that suffers from a very severe case of social anxiety.

00:27:30.520 He's a teenage boy named Shane and the kid suffers from severe social anxiety

00:27:36.000 such that anytime he's going to be in a social situation that he's nervous about,

00:27:40.020 he vomits profusely before going into school or before going anywhere

00:27:43.900 where there's going to be people.

00:27:45.020 He just suffers from that.

00:27:46.880 I think jujitsu would be great for him, the doctor said.

00:27:49.720 And I said, well, great.

00:27:51.040 Bring him in, send him in.

00:27:52.140 She said, okay, I'll set you up with the mom. 0.99

00:27:53.360 I talked to the mom.

00:27:54.060 She's going to bring him on a Thursday.

00:27:55.380 I purposely set it up at a time where there's no one in the building, right?

00:27:58.380 So it'd be less intimidating for him.

00:28:00.240 And at Thursday, classes at four o'clock, I think it was like four, five, four, 10, four, 15.

00:28:05.200 I get a call from the mom.

00:28:06.880 Sorry, Henner, we're not going to make it.

00:28:09.180 I'm like, what?

00:28:10.000 In my mind, I'm thinking it's number one, it's already after four o'clock.

00:28:12.740 Number two, why not?

00:28:13.900 I'm thinking in my mind.

00:28:14.780 So I say, oh, what's going on?

00:28:16.160 She says, well, we're outside in the parking lot, but Shane's not coming in.

00:28:20.800 And I said, you're outside our building right now?

00:28:24.640 She said, yep.

00:28:25.980 And I said, okay, can I come out and say hi?

00:28:29.340 She said, yes.

00:28:30.260 So I walk out and I get to the car.

00:28:33.720 Mom is standing outside the car and he's sitting inside the backseat on the passenger side,

00:28:39.500 crying profusely, like the most aggressive abdominal cry you've ever heard.

00:28:45.480 And he's bending over.

00:28:47.080 Every time he cries, he's bending over like hysterical crying.

00:28:50.460 And I say to the mom, can I go inside?

00:28:53.360 I mouth it to her.

00:28:54.860 Can I go inside?

00:28:56.340 And she says, yeah, go ahead.

00:28:58.240 She's outside the car standing on the curb, on the sidewalk.

00:29:00.940 I go around the driver's side.

00:29:02.180 I sit in the seat.

00:29:02.980 I get in the car and I sit down.

00:29:05.460 He's crying.

00:29:06.940 Most aggressive cry I've ever heard.

00:29:08.980 And he does this for 20 to 30 minutes.

00:29:11.500 I don't say a word.

00:29:13.240 Just sitting there.

00:29:15.700 Waiting.

00:29:16.480 Depletion principle.

00:29:18.060 Letting him burn it out.

00:29:19.060 Nothing's happening.

00:29:21.300 Just relax.

00:29:22.060 Just watching.

00:29:22.780 Chilling.

00:29:23.240 No judgment.

00:29:24.640 And he finally sits up.

00:29:25.900 He ran out of energy.

00:29:26.760 Ran out of steam.

00:29:28.940 He sits up quietly, breathing normal.

00:29:31.560 And I say, what's up, Shane?

00:29:33.760 I'm Henner.

00:29:34.500 What do you like to do for fun?

00:29:36.080 A little off guard by the question.

00:29:37.320 He goes, video games.

00:29:39.960 I say, cool.

00:29:40.880 Tell me more.

00:29:41.900 We talk about video games for 15 minutes.

00:29:44.200 And I don't play video games.

00:29:45.200 So I'm just talking about his life.

00:29:46.780 Life is good.

00:29:47.400 Video games.

00:29:47.900 Tell me everything.

00:29:49.000 Finally, we're having a conversation, Brett.

00:29:50.420 And it's totally normal how we're talking.

00:29:52.700 Everything's fine.

00:29:53.720 Like, as if we know each other, we're talking in a very casual, relaxed way.

00:29:56.800 And I feel that, wow, there's a connection here now.

00:29:59.000 We're cool.

00:30:00.320 We're okay.

00:30:01.300 He's here.

00:30:01.900 He's present.

00:30:02.440 And he's safe.

00:30:03.040 And he knows he's safe.

00:30:04.540 Then I say to him, I said, hey, bro, I know it was hard getting here.

00:30:09.160 But I would like to give you a tour of the facility if you'd let me.

00:30:12.300 Would you come inside with me so I can show you around?

00:30:15.460 Yes.

00:30:18.280 So he gets out of the car.

00:30:19.400 We get out of the car.

00:30:19.960 Mom is following us.

00:30:20.760 We go in the building.

00:30:21.720 And in my mind, Brett, all I'm thinking is, if I do not do jujitsu with this guy today,

00:30:28.320 like do a technique, like get him on the mat, I will never get him back.

00:30:31.640 But if I do get him on the mat and we do do jujitsu, we're going to get him for life.

00:30:37.800 He's in.

00:30:39.220 So I'm giving him this tour.

00:30:40.660 And all that's crossing my mind is, how am I going to get this guy to do jujitsu?

00:30:44.880 Because if I ask him, hey, do you want to do jujitsu?

00:30:46.760 What's he going to say?

00:30:47.400 No.

00:30:47.920 And run out of the building.

00:30:49.680 Hysterical probably, right?

00:30:50.600 Like it's going to be a lot for him.

00:30:52.720 So we're walking around.

00:30:54.100 We pass by one of the private training rooms, the personal training rooms, which is just an empty room,

00:30:58.220 you know, 12 by 12 feet with mats on all the walls.

00:31:01.200 And I open the door and I step in and I step on the mats without my shoes on, bare feet.

00:31:05.420 I'm stepping on the mats and I say, Shane, check this out.

00:31:08.360 These mats are so soft.

00:31:10.860 Take off your shoes and come check it out.

00:31:12.600 See for yourself.

00:31:14.180 Told his mom, come on in too, mom.

00:31:16.240 She came in.

00:31:17.080 He took off his shoes.

00:31:17.960 He walks in.

00:31:19.160 I close the door.

00:31:21.120 We're on the mat.

00:31:22.600 I say, hey, have a seat.

00:31:24.260 Let's talk for a sec.

00:31:25.500 I sit him down.

00:31:26.900 I lay him down on his back.

00:31:29.020 I get on top of him with his permission.

00:31:31.460 And I say, hey, bro, how would you escape if someone was on top of you like this?

00:31:34.760 He tries a couple of different things.

00:31:36.180 Doesn't work.

00:31:37.000 I switch roles.

00:31:37.820 Okay, now let me try with you.

00:31:38.800 He gets on top of me.

00:31:39.840 I escape rather easily.

00:31:41.800 He's like blown away.

00:31:42.720 Like, wow.

00:31:43.280 I'm like, you do it now.

00:31:44.620 He does the move.

00:31:45.440 He's successful.

00:31:47.300 Wow.

00:31:48.140 That was awesome.

00:31:49.100 Let's go again.

00:31:49.820 He does it again.

00:31:50.760 Again, one hour passes.

00:31:53.840 I showed him six or seven different techniques.

00:31:56.280 His mom is sitting in the corner of the room with tears coming down her eyes, not saying

00:32:01.920 a word.

00:32:03.000 And him and I are just enjoying jujitsu together.

00:32:06.180 Full connection.

00:32:08.340 Clock principle perfectly applied.

00:32:11.380 Patience in the car, right?

00:32:13.280 No rush.

00:32:14.420 And velocity in the school.

00:32:17.080 As I was walking through, when I opened the room and I had my one chance, I took it.

00:32:22.380 Hey, come on in.

00:32:23.140 See how soft these mats are.

00:32:24.740 Got them.

00:32:25.320 Once I got them in the room, got them down with all the love in my heart.

00:32:28.360 Got them down.

00:32:29.100 Showed them a technique.

00:32:29.940 I knew he would love it because I've been doing this forever.

00:32:32.540 He falls in love with jujitsu.

00:32:34.040 He continues to be a student of ours.

00:32:35.440 The next time he came back to the school, it only took me 15 minutes to get him out of the car.

00:32:39.360 And the third time, it only took seven minutes.

00:32:43.120 On the second or third visit, he got out of the car.

00:32:45.120 He went to the bathroom.

00:32:45.780 He threw up and then came out, got his gi on and went to the class.

00:32:49.360 You see what I'm saying?

00:32:50.280 But he made it.

00:32:51.240 He pushed through.

00:32:52.320 Got him involved with another instructor here who became his main instructor for several years.

00:32:56.400 He started doing group classes with other students, which was totally unexpected by his mom and his father.

00:33:03.220 And then he ended up graduating high school, moved away, went to college, lived a normal life.

00:33:08.340 Clock principle.

00:33:09.360 Timing is everything.

00:33:10.640 Right.

00:33:10.860 So you got to know when to be patient.

00:33:12.680 But then also, like you said, find those moments where you have to speed things up and take advantage of the moment.

00:33:17.700 Yes, bro.

00:33:18.540 A hundred percent.

00:33:19.360 When it's time to go, go.

00:33:21.700 You got to go.

00:33:23.180 And this is a trait that pretty much every successful entrepreneur has is this balance between knowing when to wait and knowing when to fire.

00:33:33.920 Right?

00:33:34.320 If you're successful as an entrepreneur, you've had so many encounters where you've had to be careful in your timing.

00:33:40.660 And same goes applied for me.

00:33:43.140 A hundred percent, both as a jiu-jitsu teacher, but also in my other businesses.

00:33:46.960 Timing is everything.

00:33:49.280 And jiu-jitsu teaches us that every day you come to class.

00:33:52.740 When a move doesn't work, when a technique fails in deployment, a physical technique, it's either because you did the move wrong or you did it at the wrong time.

00:34:04.340 It's one or the other.

00:34:05.360 And it's usually very easy to identify which of those two it was.

00:34:09.900 And with that, guess what's happening every time you're doing jiu-jitsu?

00:34:13.580 You're increasing your respect and appreciation for timing in a fight and in life.

00:34:19.920 Now, I love that, what you said, that the right move at the wrong time is the wrong move.

00:34:24.220 That's, I think that's great.

00:34:25.420 It applies, has all sorts of applications.

00:34:27.960 Another principle is the Kazushi principle.

00:34:30.440 What does that look like on the mat and outside the mat?

00:34:33.440 Sure.

00:34:33.720 Yeah, Kazushi is the literal breaking of someone's balance.

00:34:37.340 That's what it means literally in Japanese.

00:34:39.660 So the implications in jiu-jitsu are, you know, I guess self-explanatory.

00:34:43.500 We're always trying to break the balance, right?

00:34:45.800 If someone has a pyramid principle, they're trying to maintain their balance.

00:34:49.360 Kazushi is the process of trying to destabilize someone else's pyramid, if that makes sense. 0.93

00:34:54.340 So now one thing to understand about the Kazushi principle is that you can't break the balance without understanding the balance, if that makes sense.

00:35:06.000 So you must first understand what makes something structurally sound to then be able to efficiently craft a counterattack or a balance-breaking maneuver that would overcome their sound balance, right?

00:35:22.200 That's essentially the prerequisite.

00:35:24.140 You can't break the balance that you do not understand.

00:35:26.840 So the Kazushi principle for me, as I consider its life application, I think of all the times where I sought first to understand, then to be understood.

00:35:39.820 Whether it's business negotiations, whether it's damage control, you know, with the customer service, whether it's marriage or relationship with your parent, child, spouse, if you want to be understood and win someone over to your way of thinking, you must first understand where are they?

00:36:01.540 What constitutes their position right now, their balance, their base?

00:36:06.620 What is the structure on which they're standing?

00:36:09.560 What is the ideas and the core beliefs on which their position has been taken?

00:36:16.920 That's really important.

00:36:18.520 Otherwise, if you don't know where they're currently positioned, then your attempt to essentially break their balance, and not even in a negative way, even in a positive way, to guide their mentality and guide their beliefs towards one that more effectively, you know, relate to yours.

00:36:37.300 You can't do that unless you know where they're at.

00:36:39.140 And we had a situation here where a mom, a mom named Myra and her daughter Miranda, Myra brought her daughter in for class.

00:36:46.880 She was, I think, four or five years old, young daughter, first day, first class in jujitsu, and she had a terrible experience.

00:36:54.780 The daughter came in.

00:36:56.320 Nobody noticed that it was her first day, so she got paired up with another girl who wasn't a great partner, and the mom was sweating bullets on the sidelines and was very frustrated that no one was there. 0.74

00:37:06.040 And basically, everything we could have done wrong that first day, we did wrong.

00:37:08.780 And I can say that confidently because we don't do those mistakes anymore, and we actually run an incredible business and kids program.

00:37:13.960 It's one of our most successful programs.

00:37:15.840 But that day, the instructor who was teaching let the ball drop, and as a result, this new little girl who was in the class, Miranda, had a negative experience.

00:37:24.240 The mom went on Yelp and just shredded us with a one-star Yelp review.

00:37:29.380 Okay?

00:37:30.000 So when I see this Yelp, I wasn't at the class.

00:37:31.860 I didn't know the class was happening.

00:37:33.060 I didn't know she was in it.

00:37:33.840 I didn't know anything about it.

00:37:34.820 I just saw the review.

00:37:36.360 So when I saw that, I said, hey, I need to call this mom.

00:37:38.800 So I got the phone number from our reception staff.

00:37:41.340 I called the mom, and I said, Myra, this is Henner from Gracie University.

00:37:45.100 We had never even met because it was after her first class, and I wasn't there.

00:37:49.000 I said, I understand that you had a less than favorable introductory experience for your daughter, and I'd like to know about what happened from your perspective.

00:37:56.600 Well, well, you know, well, thank you for calling, and, well, I didn't expect someone to call me, but, yeah, I'm happy to share my experience.

00:38:05.520 Already she was caught off guard by my approach and by the fact that I truly wanted to understand where she was at before proposing any solutions or resolution to this.

00:38:21.200 Forget all of that.

00:38:21.900 Where are you, and what happened, and how do you feel about it?

00:38:24.740 It started with her, and I'll tell you, Brett, she opened up big time on her feelings, on what she perceived to be wrong with how the class was administered, everything you could imagine she shared with me.

00:38:36.300 And when she was done spilling everything, and she was not sharing this stuff with anger in her voice.

00:38:42.760 She was sharing it as a concerned mother and someone who really wanted to provide profound feedback so that this wouldn't happen to other families, and I really appreciated that perspective.

00:38:50.340 And I think her energy was matching of mine.

00:38:52.900 I was inquisitive because I wanted to learn and grow from this.

00:38:55.920 So at the end, I said, Myra, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to share your thoughts on this experience.

00:39:02.620 And because you're sharing it, this will never happen to any other kid ever.

00:39:07.620 Already, after reading this, I've gotten ideas for how I want to change how classes are administered so this never happens again.

00:39:13.420 I said, But more importantly for right now, I feel like because of our mistakes, your daughter, who you wanted to empower with jiu-jitsu, didn't get the introduction to jiu-jitsu that she deserved.

00:39:27.960 And that's the saddest part of all of this.

00:39:29.820 What I propose, if you'll accept it, is that I would like to give your daughter a one-on-one personal introduction to jiu-jitsu so that she can get the introduction she deserves and that you wanted for her.

00:39:43.560 We can do that.

00:39:45.920 And if you would like to join her in the class, you're absolutely permitted to do that.

00:39:50.940 I would be the one teaching the class.

00:39:53.360 So I would love to have both there if you would be willing.

00:39:57.120 And she said, Henner, I can't believe it.

00:39:59.420 This is so kind.

00:40:00.360 I appreciate it.

00:40:01.300 Of course, we would love that.

00:40:02.860 In fact, the reason I brought my daughter is because I always wanted to do jiu-jitsu, but I never was able to when I was younger.

00:40:12.880 So now that I'm a mom and I can afford to bring her, I'm bringing her because I was never able to.

00:40:18.660 So I would love to do the class.

00:40:21.280 And that's amazing.

00:40:22.420 You're so kind.

00:40:22.940 So we did the class and I brought one of my assistant instructors, Bobby, a female instructor of ours, into the class with me.

00:40:30.000 So we taught two of us with two of them, had the best time.

00:40:33.320 And at the end of the class, I said, you guys, how did you like it?

00:40:36.000 Oh my God, this is amazing.

00:40:36.920 We want to keep going.

00:40:37.660 This is so amazing.

00:40:38.260 I said, here's what I'd like to do.

00:40:39.240 I would like to sponsor your month, a full month of private classes with Bobby so that you guys can get off on the right start here and build the solid foundation of the basics in a personal one-on-one setting.

00:40:53.300 And then after that, if you want to go back and do the group classes with all the changes we've implemented, you're going to love them.

00:40:58.140 You're going to do great.

00:40:58.780 But I think classes with Bobby would be a great start.

00:41:01.820 They did that.

00:41:03.200 They loved it.

00:41:04.300 And they continued training and life went on.

00:41:06.680 And it turned a one-star Yelp review into a five-star Yelp review and they turned into lifelong customers.

00:41:12.940 So you threw that mom off balance by responding.

00:41:15.400 And you did it, you responded really positively or politely to her, to her negative review.

00:41:20.200 Because nobody expects to have their negative review responded to, let alone responded to in such a positive manner.

00:41:26.660 So, you know, you threw her expectations off.

00:41:29.960 And then in doing so, you managed to turn something negative for your business and for this person into something positive.

00:41:37.940 As you're describing that, it seems like you did the Kazushi principle with Shane as well, right?

00:41:42.320 Like he had a foundation.

00:41:44.260 It might have been maladaptive, but it was working for him.

00:41:47.320 And you had to figure out like, where's this guy at?

00:41:49.480 So that you could put him off balance in a positive way and get him on the mat.

00:41:53.920 And it seems like this Kazushi principle and the clock principle are connected.

00:41:58.620 I imagine in jujitsu, you have to maybe spend some time to figure out what's this guy doing?

00:42:03.760 Where's he at?

00:42:04.400 What's he got going on in this space so that I can put him off balance?

00:42:09.220 And that happens in life too.

00:42:10.500 Sometimes, I mean, with this mother and daughter, it took some time.

00:42:14.440 Like you had to use that clock principle so that you could get her off balance. 0.98

00:42:18.680 Yes, 100%.

00:42:20.500 And you're totally right in that many of these principles, they coexist and they're applied side by side.

00:42:27.640 And sometimes one technique will have four or five principles applied to it.

00:42:30.400 That's important to understand, right?

00:42:32.020 Principles aren't techniques.

00:42:34.080 Techniques are techniques.

00:42:35.200 Principles are principles.

00:42:37.100 And one technique may consist of three, five principles in the same exact technique.

00:42:43.120 And you're totally right that there may be some degree of Kazushi in dealing with Shane.

00:42:49.940 And there may be some degree of the clock and velocity principle in how I dealt with Myra and Miranda.

00:42:55.360 Totally, 100%.

00:42:56.260 And there's many of these stories in the book where we kind of highlight the main principle.

00:43:00.580 But yes, just like you're doing now, automatically, you start making your own connections and going,

00:43:05.520 wow, that story also included sprinkled elements of these three other principles.

00:43:08.580 And when you start thinking about it in that way, you've become the principles of Jiu-Jitsu.

00:43:14.480 All right, so let's talk about one more principle, and that's the river principle.

00:43:17.320 What does this look like?

00:43:18.480 Sure.

00:43:19.180 Yeah, the river principle is great.

00:43:21.140 When the water is flowing down the river and the rock presents itself,

00:43:27.720 the water doesn't bother with where the rock is.

00:43:32.700 It simply flows where the rock is not.

00:43:39.140 In Jiu-Jitsu, this is so important because so often, Brett, precisely what you have planned

00:43:46.920 to do to your opponent is neutralized by the fact that they see it coming and they change

00:43:54.560 their behavior to prevent your technique from being effective.

00:43:57.960 And when that obstacle is presented, you have two choices.

00:44:02.920 One is to confront that obstacle head-on, clashing with it, and try to overcome it with brute force,

00:44:08.680 which is inefficient and easily preventable.

00:44:13.220 Or when the obstacle presents itself, the immediate question should surface of,

00:44:17.640 okay, great, one door closes, the other one opens.

00:44:19.720 Where is the opportunity in adversity right now?

00:44:22.380 That's it.

00:44:22.840 And if you think about people, organizations, nations, why is it that some people struggle

00:44:33.500 and drown when faced with adversity, right?

00:44:38.060 When we talk about a personal obstacle, an organizational setback, or a national health crisis like COVID,

00:44:46.780 Why is it that some organizations kind of suffer and drown while other organizations flourish and thrive

00:44:55.360 when presented with the very same obstacle?

00:44:57.600 Why is that the case?

00:44:59.660 Because the individuals and organizations and nations that thrive tend to focus on what is the opportunity

00:45:09.140 in that adversity instead of focusing on the obstacle in that adversity.

00:45:13.960 In jiu-jitsu, this is something I do every single day.

00:45:18.860 When something doesn't work, right away, my first question is,

00:45:21.360 well, what opportunity is now available as a result of this previous opportunity no longer being available?

00:45:29.360 That's it.

00:45:29.720 That's the first question.

00:45:30.420 And it's not even a conscious question.

00:45:32.300 It's a subconscious response to an obstacle.

00:45:36.180 So what a beautiful concept to have learned and to reinforce in every day of practice on the mat.

00:45:42.340 But even more so, for life and business.

00:45:46.000 Yeah, I think we've all experienced the river principle in our lives at some point.

00:45:50.020 I know I have.

00:45:51.200 Like when I, I have those moments where I hit some obstacle or challenge,

00:45:54.580 and my initial response is just to like bang my head against the thing over and over again,

00:45:59.560 thinking that my increased efforts will solve the problem.

00:46:02.740 But I just ended up just beating myself down.

00:46:04.960 And when I learned how to adapt to the obstacle, that's when I start making progress again.

00:46:08.580 And an example from my own life here is like, I used to be really serious about powerlifting.

00:46:14.320 It was my passion.

00:46:15.480 I was supremely dedicated to it.

00:46:17.460 But a few years ago, I started having some injuries just from getting old and things like that.

00:46:22.700 And my initial response was, I had to figure out how to make my regular powerlifting routine work.

00:46:29.420 And I tried and I tried and it just ended up, caused me to just be frustrated.

00:46:34.040 And I eventually realized I got to adapt to my new circumstance.

00:46:37.940 So I've modified my training.

00:46:40.200 I've, I'm doing different lifts, but I'm still training for overall strength.

00:46:44.580 Well, Henner Gracie, this has been a great conversation.

00:46:46.860 Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?

00:46:49.660 So the book, it publishes on August 22nd and is available everywhere books are sold.

00:46:55.680 If you want to watch the introduction to the book, you can go to a website,

00:46:59.440 the32principles.com forward slash book, the32principles.com, 32 spelt out as a number,

00:47:08.300 not with the words or the letters.

00:47:10.460 And you'll see the video.

00:47:12.020 You can watch the introduction.

00:47:13.240 You can read the forward.

00:47:14.560 Jocko Willink, the Navy SEAL, former Navy SEAL and entrepreneur, author extraordinaire,

00:47:19.620 was kind enough to do the forward for the book as a jujitsu, avid jujitsu practitioner himself.

00:47:24.800 And then of course, there's links there to all the different platforms where you can

00:47:28.500 easily purchase the book.

00:47:30.500 And I love it, you guys.

00:47:32.980 I appreciate the opportunity to come on here, Brett.

00:47:35.500 Congrats on all the success over all these years.

00:47:38.060 It's been great to watch you guys grow as well.

00:47:40.360 So thank you for the opportunity, Brett.

00:47:42.260 Well, Henner Gracie, thanks for your time.

00:47:43.360 It's been a pleasure.

00:47:44.480 My pleasure.

00:47:45.620 My guest is Henner Gracie.

00:47:46.740 He's the author of the book, The 32 Principles.

00:47:48.920 It's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere.

00:47:51.340 You can find more information about the book at the website, the32principles.com.

00:47:55.060 Also, check out our show notes at aom.is slash bjjprinciples, where you can find links

00:47:59.140 to resources, where you delve deeper into this topic.

00:48:04.380 Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast.

00:48:07.240 Make sure to check out our website at artofmanliness.com, where you can find our podcast archives,

00:48:11.060 as well as thousands of articles that we've written over the years about pretty much anything

00:48:14.180 you'd think of.

00:48:15.340 And if you haven't done so already, I'd appreciate it if you take one minute to give us a review

00:48:18.640 on a podcast or Spotify.

00:48:20.060 It helps out a lot.

00:48:20.740 And if you've done that already, thank you.

00:48:22.300 Please consider sharing the show with a friend or family member who would think we get something

00:48:25.520 out of it.

00:48:26.280 As always, thank you for the continued support.

00:48:28.340 Until next time, it's Brett McKay.

00:48:29.840 Remind you a ton of listen to the AOM podcast, but put what you've heard into action.

The Art of Manliness - August 23, 2023

How to Use the Principles of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to Overcome Obstacles in Business and Life

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