The Art of Manliness - How to Win Friends and Influence People in the 21st Century

00:00:00.000 Hey, this is Brett, we're taking a break from new episodes today, so we're rebroadcasting

00:00:03.300 episode number 865, How to Win Friends and Influence People in the 21st Century.

00:00:08.340 Hope you enjoy it, we'll see you on Wednesday with a brand new episode.

00:00:18.660 Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

00:00:22.840 Over the past year, my 12-year-old son has been doing one challenge every week as a rite

00:00:27.060 of passage and a chance to earn a special trip.

00:00:29.060 Some of these challenges have involved reading a book in a week, and the most recent book

00:00:33.060 we gave him was How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

00:00:36.680 His review?

00:00:37.680 He said it was the best book he's read so far.

00:00:40.420 So, a book written almost 90 years ago can still be a favorite of a kid in the 21st Century.

00:00:45.180 Talk about some staying power.

00:00:47.260 The advice on How to Win Friends and Influence People, and Dale Carnegie's other classic,

00:00:51.140 How to Stop Worrying and Start Living, is timeless.

00:00:53.680 But to help introduce it to a new audience, my guest, Joe Hart, has recently co-authored

00:00:58.220 the book, Take Command, which synthesizes, updates, and adds to the principles of Carnegie's

00:01:03.220 two perennial bestsellers.

00:01:05.220 Joe is the president and CEO of Dale Carnegie & Associates, which continues Carnegie's work

00:01:09.320 in the present day.

00:01:10.520 And we begin our conversation with some background on the guy who kicked off this work back in

00:01:14.540 1936.

00:01:15.980 We then talk about what principles we can take from How to Stop Worrying and Start Living

00:01:19.540 on developing a positive mindset.

00:01:21.040 From there, we talk about the big overarching principle of How to Win Friends and Influence

00:01:25.460 People, and how you can use it to improve your relationships.

00:01:28.700 We enter a conversation with how to live life with more intentionality and meaning.

00:01:32.660 After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash Carnegie.

00:01:43.960 All right, Joe Hart, welcome to the show.

00:01:46.660 Thank you.

00:01:47.120 Thanks, Brett.

00:01:47.780 Glad to be here.

00:01:48.340 So you are the president of Dale Carnegie & Associates.

00:01:52.120 Dale Carnegie, he famously wrote How to Win Friends and Influence People, and How to Stop

00:01:57.020 Worrying and Start Living.

00:01:58.780 Let's talk about Dale first, like big picture.

00:02:01.200 What are those books about that he wrote, and how did Dale Carnegie's background put him

00:02:05.860 in a position to write these classic books?

00:02:08.980 Yeah, Dale Carnegie is one of the most incredible people.

00:02:12.000 I've always loved biographies, reading about people.

00:02:14.720 His life is truly was an extraordinary one, and he was brilliant in terms of his insights.

00:02:19.840 But he started in a really nondescript way.

00:02:23.680 He was born on a farm in Missouri.

00:02:25.880 He was fairly poor, and he had a struggling childhood, a wonderful, warm family, parents

00:02:32.720 who loved him, a brother, a nice family that supported him.

00:02:36.040 But they struggled.

00:02:37.980 And the reason why that's important is he really always had the sense of wanting to overcome

00:02:43.100 poverty and establish a level of security.

00:02:46.600 His parents had moved near a college when he was in his teen years so that he could attend

00:02:51.760 college.

00:02:52.360 And he did.

00:02:53.220 And in that experience, he discovered that he had a gift for debate, for public speaking,

00:02:59.000 and so forth.

00:02:59.620 And that kind of instilled in him a desire to really to learn and to leverage that.

00:03:06.420 He started after college in sales.

00:03:09.960 He had one sales experience that wasn't great.

00:03:12.480 And then he went on to become really an extraordinary salesperson for the Armour Meat Packing Company.

00:03:17.360 And rather than going into management, he decided to go to New York City.

00:03:20.720 And at that time, he wanted to study acting.

00:03:25.520 He discovered that he was not a great actor.

00:03:28.640 And ultimately, in 1912, began offering classes at the YMCA in New York City on public speaking.

00:03:38.200 And there he was.

00:03:39.080 He's at the front of the room.

00:03:40.840 And he was teaching techniques of public speaking.

00:03:43.900 And he was running out of things to say.

00:03:46.540 So he started to invite the participants up to the room as he started to notice that they

00:03:50.540 were getting bored.

00:03:51.640 And he discovered just the power of having someone stand up in front of an audience and

00:03:57.320 try to present and articulate themselves.

00:03:59.280 And the fear and the lack of confidence, all the different things that went along that.

00:04:02.740 And so that was the beginning in 1912 of the Dale Carnegie Chorus, now 110 years later plus.

00:04:09.880 And so many millions and millions of people who've taken that program.

00:04:14.220 It started around public speaking.

00:04:17.120 But what he discovered was that it was really more about even human relations and the things

00:04:22.220 that hold us back.

00:04:23.200 And how do we overcome the limiting beliefs that we have?

00:04:26.760 So how to win friends and influence people.

00:04:28.460 This was written in the 1930s, correct?

00:04:31.080 Right.

00:04:31.340 1936, 1936.

00:04:32.980 And this came out of a course he was teaching.

00:04:35.400 And then tell us about the impact.

00:04:37.240 I mean, we're talking about it today.

00:04:38.380 But what influence or what impact did it have on the culture when it first came out?

00:04:42.680 It was an immediate cultural phenomenon.

00:04:45.900 And it was interesting.

00:04:46.600 You think about you're still in the midst of the depression and challenges and so forth.

00:04:51.520 And even prior to the book, I mean, the book was an outgrowth, as you said correctly,

00:04:55.540 Brett, from the courses.

00:04:57.020 In fact, the way the book came about was because there was a man named Leon Shimkin who worked

00:05:01.280 for Simon & Schuster, who was taking one of Dale's programs.

00:05:03.760 He said, this is fantastic.

00:05:05.360 You know, you should really turn this into a book.

00:05:07.200 And Dale didn't originally want to do that.

00:05:09.360 But Leon Shimkin convinced him to at least let us kind of record what you're doing.

00:05:13.220 And that became How to Win Friends and Influence People, or at least the first version of it.

00:05:17.220 But when that book came out in 1936, Dale himself didn't know what to expect, but it immediately

00:05:24.580 became a success.

00:05:25.760 And it's been a bestselling book now for over 85 years.

00:05:29.240 It's one of the top selling books of the 20th century, correct?

00:05:32.220 Yeah, it's certainly one of the top books, bestselling books of all time.

00:05:37.060 In fact, the New York Public Library not long ago did a survey of the most checked out books

00:05:41.960 ever, and that was, I think, in the top five.

00:05:44.460 Time had listed as one of the most influential books ever as well.

00:05:48.320 So the impact of this, and the reason why this book has been so successful is, I think,

00:05:53.040 number one, Dale Carnegie had a phenomenal ability to tell stories.

00:05:57.060 And really, the book is about stories, but it's about the insights about how people can

00:06:01.500 interact with each other more successfully.

00:06:04.460 And for people to read this, they have their own epiphanies about either relationships that

00:06:10.100 they have or things that they need to do or how they can advance in their lives, in their

00:06:13.740 careers.

00:06:15.200 And so it's been a catalyst for so many people to just, you know, ignite amazing results

00:06:21.820 in their lives, which is why, you know, you and I were talking before we started just about

00:06:25.820 having your son, you know, read How to Win Friends.

00:06:28.820 And so many people will tell me that their father, their mother had them read How to Win

00:06:32.880 Friends in their teenage years.

00:06:34.080 We just had an international convention in New York City, and some of the speakers, you know,

00:06:37.600 is hugely successful business people had said that, you know, that I read this book when

00:06:42.060 I was younger, and it had this, it was formative, it was foundational in terms of my life and

00:06:46.640 my career and everything that followed.

00:06:48.540 How does the Dale Carnegie and Associates company carry on the work laid down by Dale Carnegie?

00:06:52.920 Because I was surprised that there's still a Dale Carnegie company.

00:06:55.620 It's going strong in 2023.

00:06:57.880 Yeah, thankfully, stronger than ever.

00:06:59.440 We are an organization that has 200 operations in over 80 countries.

00:07:05.020 So we're a global organization, we've got thousands of people that are part of Dale

00:07:08.880 Carnegie, we operate, you know, regionally, and so you can actually take a Dale Carnegie

00:07:12.960 program in person, or you can take one online.

00:07:17.140 But there are a number of different things that we're teaching.

00:07:20.660 So one of the programs is the Dale Carnegie course.

00:07:23.060 I mean, if you googled Dale Carnegie and Warren Buffett, you'd watch a video of him talking about

00:07:28.260 how when he took the Dale Carnegie course as a young person, it completely just changed

00:07:32.040 everything for him, his life would not be the same.

00:07:34.220 That's the Dale Carnegie course.

00:07:36.020 That course is about interpersonal skills and self-confidence and leadership and stress

00:07:40.520 and worry, really how to present effectively.

00:07:44.020 And we have individuals that will take that course, we'll have companies that will bring

00:07:47.860 us in and we'll provide that really as a cultural tool to help create stronger, more

00:07:54.700 higher performing teams in organizations.

00:07:57.620 We work with, you know, 400 of the Fortune 500 companies.

00:08:02.580 But that program is the one that he had started, it's changed over the years, but it's available

00:08:06.900 in 32 languages.

00:08:08.580 We've got leadership programs and sales programs and a whole range of other kinds of things.

00:08:12.940 So I was thinking about when I discovered Dale Carnegie, and it was in high school, I don't

00:08:17.300 remember how I found it.

00:08:18.920 I think I might have just stumbled upon it in Barnes and Noble and picked it up and bought

00:08:22.520 it and just like, this is great, underlined it, highlighted it.

00:08:26.180 I'm curious, how did you discover Dale Carnegie and how did his work change your life?

00:08:30.520 It's interesting, Brett.

00:08:31.540 My experience was maybe a little bit similar to yours in the sense that I was a teenager

00:08:36.180 and my father, my father had a huge influence on me.

00:08:39.900 He always believed that life was about personal growth and he was talking about goal setting

00:08:43.800 and different kinds of things.

00:08:44.940 And one of the things he shared with me was Dale Carnegie, I mean, how to win friends

00:08:49.140 and influence people.

00:08:50.080 And admittedly, you know, I'd love to tell you that I read that cover to cover over and

00:08:54.960 over at that time.

00:08:56.100 And, you know, I really, I didn't, I read it and I thought it was great.

00:09:00.520 I was really impressed by what I read and I thought about my father and just how, you

00:09:04.000 know, amazing my dad was interacting with other people.

00:09:07.120 But it planted the seed even more so that when I was in my 20s, I was a young lawyer and I

00:09:13.020 wanted to take a Dale Carnegie course and I wanted to do that just because I wanted to

00:09:16.440 invest in myself and advance my career and so forth.

00:09:19.300 And that was one of the most defining moments of my life, walking into that class, because

00:09:26.520 it truly helped me change my view of myself.

00:09:30.140 It gave me skills in terms of how to interact with people more effectively.

00:09:33.880 I think as a young lawyer, I was a little bit, oh, hard edged, arrogant, maybe not particularly

00:09:40.660 empathetic, and it just completely opened my eyes.

00:09:43.520 And people started to notice immediately, they're like, gosh, what's, you know, you seem 0.96

00:09:47.320 very different and so forth.

00:09:48.760 I really started to apply the Dale Carnegie principles.

00:09:51.300 It also challenged me on vision.

00:09:54.080 So one of the things that in early in a Dale Carnegie program, you know, we talk about is,

00:09:59.260 you know, living an intentional life.

00:10:01.100 And so many people go through their lives and they just find themselves older and they say,

00:10:07.640 gosh, I didn't do the things I wanted to do.

00:10:09.240 I didn't take the chances I wanted.

00:10:10.580 I didn't really, I just, life passed me by.

00:10:12.680 And the program says, what's your vision for yourself?

00:10:17.800 What's your vision for yourself in six months?

00:10:19.440 What's your vision for yourself in years?

00:10:20.740 And so I ultimately decided to leave the practice of law because I said, you know, I may be a successful

00:10:26.600 lawyer, but I'm not necessarily a happy lawyer.

00:10:28.700 And I went into business from there.

00:10:30.580 And in fact, it was Dale Carnegie that inspired me to start my first business because that first

00:10:36.480 business was an e-learning company in 2000 that was all about helping people apply things

00:10:42.620 that they learn in training programs.

00:10:44.160 And in fact, Dale Carnegie became my first client.

00:10:47.240 I developed e-learning programs in the early 2000s for Dale Carnegie that were used in multiple

00:10:53.300 languages and countries all over the world.

00:10:55.000 So you got a new book out that you co-authored with Michael Krom called Take Command, Find

00:10:59.960 Your Inner Strength, Build Enduring Relationships, and Live the Life You Want.

00:11:03.640 And what you've done, you've taken the ideas from Dale Carnegie and you've updated them for

00:11:08.120 the 21st century.

00:11:09.340 And to be clear, what I love about Dale Carnegie is his stuff's timeless.

00:11:13.180 The things that are applied in 1936 are still applicable today, but things are different.

00:11:17.240 We have the internet now.

00:11:18.360 We have online communication.

00:11:19.480 That didn't exist when Dale wrote these books.

00:11:21.440 And then also what's interesting too is a lot of the insights that Dale had in his books

00:11:27.460 about social relationships and confidence.

00:11:30.140 It's been interesting to see in the past 20 years, those ideas being verified by psychology

00:11:35.960 or the social sciences.

00:11:37.080 And you talk about those insights in this book.

00:11:39.920 You divide the book into three parts.

00:11:41.960 And the first part, you focus on taking command of your thoughts and emotions.

00:11:47.020 And this was a big theme in Carnegie's book, How to Stop Worrying.

00:11:50.580 And I love How to Stop Worrying.

00:11:52.420 Whenever I have those periods in my life when I'm just, things are going crazy and I'm feeling

00:11:56.220 overwhelmed, I always bust out that book, flip open on a random page, and you'll find

00:12:00.440 some insight that will like, oh, okay, that gives me some perspectives, gives me a tool.

00:12:05.140 Let's talk about getting a handle on our thoughts.

00:12:07.700 What advice did Dale have about avoiding negative thinking?

00:12:11.660 Because I think this is something that a lot of people struggle with.

00:12:14.580 Yeah, it's interesting just to go back to what you're saying, because How to Stop Worrying

00:12:18.140 and Start Living, maybe the lesser known of Dale Carnegie's books.

00:12:21.300 And yet, in so many ways, particularly given all that we've gone through over the past

00:12:25.600 several years and all the stress in the world, is such a meaningful and valuable book.

00:12:30.580 And in fact, that book for me was a critical one in terms of challenges I faced during the

00:12:36.000 pandemic and leading a company, leading a global company and all the stress and so forth.

00:12:40.080 But that book really outlines his thinking about how to stop worrying and start living.

00:12:46.220 And that really comes down to how do we manage our thoughts and our emotions.

00:12:49.960 And he had a whole range of principles that he talked about.

00:12:54.880 I'll talk about a couple of those in a moment.

00:12:56.640 But I think the big epiphany for me is when he really talks about the power of our mindset.

00:13:01.920 He's not using the word mindset like we might today, but the power of our thoughts and how

00:13:06.080 you can have two people in the exact same situation with the same set of facts that one person

00:13:11.180 is miserable and the other person is thrilled.

00:13:14.700 And what's the difference?

00:13:15.960 The difference is how we think and the things that we tell ourselves and how we process our

00:13:19.780 thoughts.

00:13:20.880 And so much of how to stop worrying and start living is really getting people to think about

00:13:25.920 their thoughts and to change their thoughts and to look at things differently.

00:13:31.620 And sometimes people will say, well, is that just simply changing your overlooking challenges

00:13:38.620 or you're living with rose-colored glasses or something.

00:13:41.720 That's not it at all.

00:13:42.760 I mean, Dale Carnegie was a realist and certainly went through challenges in his life.

00:13:46.960 But his point would be that if you focus on the right frame or way of thinking, you can

00:13:53.540 overcome challenges far more effectively than if all you're doing is focused on problems and

00:13:59.340 so forth.

00:13:59.820 So, you know, some of the different, you know, techniques that he talked about and some of

00:14:03.560 the different, you know, maybe ideas, you know, which today we might say, well, of course

00:14:08.160 that seems obvious, but at the time, maybe not so much.

00:14:11.340 And the other thing we say, Brett, is that often these things are common sense, but they're

00:14:15.440 not common practice.

00:14:17.040 You know, but actually taking a step and filling your mind with thoughts of peace and courage,

00:14:22.580 health and hope.

00:14:23.860 You know, so what are the things I'm saying to myself?

00:14:26.520 What are the things I'm observing?

00:14:27.920 What are the things I'm thinking?

00:14:29.160 So if I think back about the pandemic, I mean, this was a pivotal idea for me because there

00:14:35.280 was a point in time where my mind was just going to the worst possible outcomes and results

00:14:41.660 as all these things were happening.

00:14:43.540 And it's like, well, wait a second.

00:14:45.220 You know, if in fact, you know, every action is an opposite and equal reaction, and this is

00:14:50.440 an unprecedented crisis, where's the opportunity here?

00:14:53.480 We flipped and changed our entire business significantly, and I think that was because

00:14:58.440 the people in our organization had the mindset that said, you know, this is really incredible

00:15:05.460 that our entire operation is being shut down because we were face-to-face, in-person classes

00:15:09.560 at that time.

00:15:10.520 But how do we pivot?

00:15:12.520 And we did pivot.

00:15:13.440 But part of it was around how we thought.

00:15:16.900 Another thing might be around, you know, asking yourself, what's the worst possible thing that

00:15:23.600 can happen, accepting that, and then working back.

00:15:26.680 So often, we generate just so much negativity and fear and worry because we think about all

00:15:33.660 these bad things that are going to happen.

00:15:35.240 But the second that we accept, all right, what's the worst possible thing that could happen,

00:15:39.640 and then you work back from that, it releases the ability to think with clarity and to build

00:15:46.800 something that we say to ourselves, gosh, first of all, it's probably not going to happen.

00:15:50.200 And second of all, even if it does happen, I can deal with that.

00:15:53.100 I can work through that.

00:15:53.940 Or where do I go from here?

00:15:55.500 So, I mean, those were a couple of the things he talked about.

00:15:58.960 One other one that we talk about in the book, which is along these lines, is cooperating

00:16:05.680 with the inevitable.

00:16:06.280 I mean, so much of the challenge we have with change, say we talk about change, there's

00:16:12.640 a lot of change in the world and change is a constant, you know, but it's our resistance

00:16:16.760 to change, it's the fighting, it's the worry around it.

00:16:21.420 But if we accept that some things are going to happen, then we can put ourselves in a position

00:16:27.200 to build from that and to be more constructive in terms of what kind of results we really want.

00:16:33.620 Well, let's talk about developing a positive mindset.

00:16:37.080 This is something that Dale Carnegie talked a lot about because he understood that people,

00:16:41.120 they want to be around cheerful people.

00:16:42.820 That's something I like to be around cheerful people.

00:16:45.440 It's tough to be around people who are Debbie Downers.

00:16:47.960 What did Dale say about some practices we can incorporate to develop a more positive mindset?

00:16:53.480 Well, one of the things he talked about was, and he says this kind of glibly, you know,

00:16:58.800 is it a bad thing for us to give ourselves a pep talk?

00:17:03.700 And he says, no, it's not.

00:17:05.440 You know, we have this voice in our heads or, you know, kind of these thoughts that go

00:17:09.840 through our minds and often they are negative.

00:17:12.820 They are, you can't do this or you're not very good or why would you try that?

00:17:16.720 You're just going to fail or whatever those things are.

00:17:20.560 So, you know, part of his advice was to confront those kinds of thoughts, those voices, if you

00:17:26.940 will, and to focus on the things that have worked for you.

00:17:32.020 Focus on, you know, your successes, you know, give yourself a pep talk.

00:17:37.600 And that's one of the things we talk about in the book as well, which is, you know, people

00:17:42.800 are capable of so much more than they often think that they are.

00:17:46.580 They've got to have focus on perspective, look back to look forward.

00:17:50.440 And if you can't do that for yourself, find someone who can help bring that out in you.

00:17:54.860 Have someone to talk to who will reaffirm for you those positive things that are about who

00:18:02.360 you are.

00:18:03.800 But one of the things, again, he talked about was give yourself a pep talk.

00:18:08.220 He also talked about, you know, expecting or counting your blessings.

00:18:13.940 So this goes to mindset, looking at the things that are going right instead of the things that

00:18:18.560 are going wrong.

00:18:19.240 At any given time, we can think about the whole innumerable things in our lives that aren't

00:18:24.500 the way that we want them to be.

00:18:26.040 And his point is just time out.

00:18:29.640 You know, what are the things that you're going to look at that, you know, that are positive

00:18:34.600 that you should have to be thankful for?

00:18:36.360 He talks a lot about gratitude and how it's very difficult to be grateful and unhappy at

00:18:42.220 the same time.

00:18:43.620 He encourages people to act, act enthusiastic and you'll be enthusiastic, so to speak, or

00:18:49.940 act, you know, with confidence and you'll be confident.

00:18:52.480 Put your shoulders back, put a smile on your face, you know, do some of these kinds of things

00:18:56.380 that if you do them, you're going to start all of a sudden becoming and believing that.

00:19:02.160 And why not?

00:19:03.160 Because this is the life that you have.

00:19:04.980 Why not live it fully?

00:19:06.560 Yeah, I think a lot of people feel silly doing those things because it makes them feel like

00:19:10.000 Stuart Smalley on Saturday Night Live.

00:19:12.440 But the alternative, as you said, is, well, you can just be negative and feel unconfident.

00:19:18.300 So just give it a shot.

00:19:19.160 What do you got to lose?

00:19:20.200 You don't have to do it in front of people.

00:19:21.140 You can give yourself a pep talk, you know, in your closet before you go off to work.

00:19:25.020 You don't have to do it in front of people, you know, out in public.

00:19:27.980 That's right.

00:19:29.200 I mean, I think, you know, over the years, and again, Dale was one of the first people

00:19:35.680 to start to articulate these ideas and these thoughts.

00:19:39.080 So now, of course, all these years later, there's a whole range of other people out there

00:19:42.320 who've done other kinds of things.

00:19:43.400 And he was never, you know, kind of the Stuart Smalley kind of, you know, a mindset.

00:19:49.020 You can do some of these things on your own.

00:19:50.700 You can have the conversation in your own mind.

00:19:53.260 But what he's basically saying is, you know, you need to focus.

00:19:57.680 You need to think about how you want to think.

00:20:00.440 And you can create the life that you want if you think a certain way.

00:20:05.400 He quotes, and one of the most powerful quotes in How to Stop Worrying and Start Living comes

00:20:09.760 from the Emperor Marcus Aurelius, who says, you know, our lives are what our thoughts make

00:20:15.320 it.

00:20:15.860 Our lives are what our thoughts make it.

00:20:18.140 So if I'm dwelling on just all the things that are going wrong or all kinds of problems,

00:20:24.080 then, yeah, I probably can expect things aren't going to go very well for me.

00:20:27.820 On the other hand, and by the way, and Dale Carnegie is a global organization, we conduct

00:20:33.140 research, and we've conducted research on resilience and agility.

00:20:36.880 And part of what we found is that people who expect better results generally get them, and

00:20:42.240 they get them because their mindset is conditioned to look for them, to look for opportunity.

00:20:46.880 But if my mindset is there is no opportunity, this is a failure, there's nothing good that's

00:20:53.440 going to come from that, I'm not going to see those things, even though they could be

00:20:56.260 right in front of my face.

00:20:58.320 One of the key insights that Dale Carnegie had, I'm going to quote it.

00:21:01.760 I think this was in How to Win Friends and Influence People, but we're going to bring this

00:21:05.000 back to how this applies to us individually.

00:21:07.320 It's this.

00:21:07.780 He says, when dealing with people, let us remember we are not dealing with creatures

00:21:12.660 of logic.

00:21:13.780 We are dealing with creatures of emotion.

00:21:16.780 And we're probably going to talk about this when we talk about how to win friends and influence

00:21:20.300 people.

00:21:21.020 But this idea that we like to think we're rational agents, and we are to an extent, but

00:21:25.400 we also have these emotions.

00:21:27.500 What did Dale say about how we can get control of our emotions so that we can have those private

00:21:33.880 victories in our own personal lives, but also have a control of our emotions so when we're

00:21:38.680 dealing with other emotional creatures who might be difficult, we don't lose control

00:21:44.060 of ourselves, and we can influence these people in a positive direction.

00:21:47.580 Any tactics Dale recommended on controlling our emotions?

00:21:51.540 Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:52.600 And it's such an important question, and I really appreciate kind of the way you framed

00:21:56.440 it.

00:21:58.940 Let's talk about other people first, okay?

00:22:01.000 So, you know, because the whole first set of principles, the first 30 principles that

00:22:06.400 come from how to win friends and influence people, you know, are based on the idea that

00:22:10.640 we're interacting with another person, and we just have to recognize, we may think in

00:22:14.420 our minds, well, this person is thinking logically, so if I've given appreciation to this person,

00:22:19.660 or I think I've respected someone, I've treated them a certain way, but they're not necessarily

00:22:24.880 thinking that way.

00:22:25.960 There may be an emotional component to them.

00:22:27.700 They may be perceiving something just based on how you said something, or how you looked,

00:22:32.760 or whatever the case might be.

00:22:34.280 So his point is, first of all, let's be aware of the fact that when we're interacting with

00:22:38.340 other people, that they are creatures of emotion.

00:22:41.320 They may be angry, or upset, or petty, or whatever it is.

00:22:44.740 And we have to take those things into consideration when we're acting or interacting with other people.

00:22:49.100 So, if I am a boss, so to speak, or a supervisor, and I've got someone I'm dealing with, I'm going

00:22:56.140 to think first about our principle number one, which is don't criticize, condemn, or complain.

00:23:00.120 There are ways that I can approach something with someone.

00:23:03.600 It doesn't mean I'm not going to give feedback, and it doesn't mean I'm not going to confront

00:23:06.580 an issue.

00:23:07.120 But it does mean that the person may act defensively if the first thing I come in and say,

00:23:14.360 Brett, you screwed up again.

00:23:15.860 You know, I mean, how many times are we going to have this conversation, Brett?

00:23:19.000 I mean, you know, so recognizing the emotional component, and instead he might say something

00:23:24.160 like, you know, look, begin in a friendly way, which is, okay, what can I appreciate

00:23:28.520 about Brett?

00:23:29.980 If I think Brett is really trying to do a good job, and he's made a mistake, let's focus

00:23:34.100 on what he's done right first.

00:23:35.820 Let's acknowledge some of those good things.

00:23:38.260 So I'm thinking about kind of this emotional component about how someone's going to react

00:23:42.560 emotionally.

00:23:43.760 You can say almost anything if you say it the right way, but just recognize we're not computers.

00:23:48.780 We're not just, you know, passing information back and forth.

00:23:51.640 There's this emotional component to it.

00:23:54.120 Yeah, and I think if you have a better control of your emotions, let's say someone does something

00:23:58.300 that just, like, first response, it irritates you.

00:24:02.100 Talk about your kid.

00:24:02.680 Your kid does something.

00:24:03.580 And your immediate response is lashing out.

00:24:07.260 Dale would say, well, how's that working out for you?

00:24:09.240 Did that make it better?

00:24:10.580 Probably not.

00:24:11.860 And so Dale would say, well, you need to get a better control of your own emotions so that

00:24:16.120 when you interact with others, it's more successful.

00:24:18.440 That's right.

00:24:19.940 And in fact, it's funny because some of these principles that he talks about in How to Win

00:24:25.600 Friends and Influence People, I mean, these are easy in the abstract, but they're hard

00:24:31.340 in practice.

00:24:32.160 And they do require us to get kind of control of our own emotions so that we can effectively

00:24:37.900 interact with somebody else.

00:24:39.600 So using the example you just gave of a child who's done something wrong, if you come in

00:24:45.600 with guns blazing, you're going to get one result.

00:24:48.260 But part of what when Dale talks about leadership and being a leader, he says, begin with praise

00:24:54.340 and honest appreciation.

00:24:55.660 That's hard when we're frustrated.

00:24:57.480 If I'm frustrated with someone, I'm going to start with praise and honest appreciation,

00:25:00.940 but it needs to be sincere.

00:25:02.200 And if I do that, that person who's on the other end of that is going to respond hopefully

00:25:08.560 in a much more constructive and positive way than if I just kind of come in and sort of

00:25:13.160 put them on the defensive.

00:25:14.380 Calling attention to people's mistakes indirectly versus coming out and just, and we talk also

00:25:20.140 about this idea of letting the other person save face.

00:25:23.660 At the emotional level, we all want to be appreciated and respected.

00:25:28.600 And if we feel like those principles are being violated, we're going to be defensive.

00:25:33.860 We might be resentful.

00:25:34.880 We might be angry.

00:25:35.680 We could probably all remember experiences that we've had with someone who just attacked

00:25:39.740 us and criticized us.

00:25:40.760 Years later, it bothers us.

00:25:43.440 So you give some ideas on how you can get better control of your emotions.

00:25:46.760 And it's really, it just comes down to being mindful of them, noticing them, asking questions

00:25:51.340 like, why am I feeling this way?

00:25:53.000 Labeling it.

00:25:53.940 And that can go a long way to harnessing your emotions for positive ends.

00:25:58.680 We're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors.

00:26:07.440 And now back to the show.

00:26:08.860 I want to delve deeper into the how to win friends and influence people aspect of your

00:26:14.220 book.

00:26:14.480 So we've kind of been talking about different practices that Dale recommended.

00:26:18.540 I want to drill deeper into these, but correct me if I'm wrong.

00:26:22.000 I think the big insight that Dale Carnegie had in how to win friends and influence people

00:26:28.060 is that you, in order to have success with other people, like you were saying earlier,

00:26:33.160 you have to understand these are individuals with their own desires, needs, emotions, and

00:26:38.420 the key to success in managing or working with other people is getting inside of their own

00:26:44.820 head and trying to really figure out what they're thinking, feeling, et cetera.

00:26:50.540 That's exactly right.

00:26:51.940 You know, if there's one kind of overriding principle, and I was thinking about this prior

00:26:57.900 tour or interview from how to win friends and influence people, and it's not necessarily

00:27:03.420 spoken in this way by Dale, but it is that it's not about you.

00:27:09.180 It's, you know, we tend to think about things purely from our own point of view.

00:27:14.720 But part of what he's saying is, you know, think about the other person.

00:27:18.560 And this also goes to public speaking.

00:27:20.160 If you've got an audience, think about the audience.

00:27:22.340 What does the audience need to hear?

00:27:23.820 What is the audience feeling?

00:27:25.740 And how do I interact with that audience?

00:27:28.260 You know, one of the most important principles Dale talks about is our principle 17, try honestly

00:27:33.160 to see things from the other person's point of view.

00:27:36.140 And really think about how polarized our world is, Brett, today, right?

00:27:40.180 I mean, it's, you know, how often do we really just take a step back and say, I really want

00:27:45.420 to see how Brett's seeing this.

00:27:46.780 And I'm going to ask him questions.

00:27:48.180 I'm not going to attack.

00:27:50.080 I just really want to understand.

00:27:52.380 And, you know, from a personal standpoint, to give honest and sincere appreciation or to

00:27:58.120 try to become genuinely interested in other people, Dale had said something.

00:28:01.920 I may not be quoting this exactly right, but you can gain more friends in two months by

00:28:06.520 becoming interested in them versus two years of trying to get them interested in you.

00:28:11.820 So, so the idea is we think about the other person, we honor the other person, we respect

00:28:16.620 the other person.

00:28:17.400 And that's also something that builds relationship, which is a goal that we all have our lives.

00:28:22.660 So much of our lives are around strong connections, whether it's people with whom we work, whether

00:28:26.780 it's our family members or friends.

00:28:28.540 Sometimes we deal with difficult people around us, you know, so, so being really skilled at interacting

00:28:35.140 with other people is super important, not just practically from, from a work standpoint

00:28:39.880 or so forth, but also just from a life satisfaction standpoint.

00:28:43.780 I mean, so much of our happiness comes down to the quality of our relationships and, and

00:28:47.980 so much of this then comes down to, it kind of goes back to what you're saying here, putting

00:28:52.700 myself, I want to say in checking myself and really focusing on that other person.

00:28:59.480 Well, I think another, you, you keyed in on another big takeaway that I took from how to

00:29:03.000 win friends and influence people.

00:29:04.380 So first one is if you want to really have success with people, you need to mentalize

00:29:08.940 that is get inside their head and try to figure out how they're seeing things or feeling things.

00:29:13.820 But the other second principle is if you want to win friends and influence people, and you

00:29:17.360 said this, you got to make people feel important.

00:29:20.140 And I think this is a key insight into human nature that Carnegie unearthed in this book.

00:29:25.240 And in fact, he quotes several prominent thinkers through the ages who talk about humans need

00:29:31.100 for recognition.

00:29:32.680 You know, he said, John Dewey said the deepest urge in human nature is the desire to be important.

00:29:37.560 William James, the father of psychology said the deepest principle in human nature is the

00:29:42.020 craving to be appreciated.

00:29:43.940 And then there's this other insight from Craig Groeschel.

00:29:46.960 He is a, he's a pastor here of a big church in Oklahoma, but he's got a leadership podcast.

00:29:51.960 And he has this thing that he says that really sticks with me.

00:29:54.620 I think about a lot.

00:29:55.440 He says that the thing that people crave the most is to be noticed and needed.

00:29:59.120 And, uh, I think Dale really, he, he mined that and he saw, this is really important.

00:30:04.420 If you want to really have influence over people, you need to help them feel important.

00:30:08.140 And then the rest of the principles and how to win friends and influence people are designed

00:30:12.800 to help you do just that.

00:30:14.460 They are.

00:30:15.140 I mean, that's, that's really well put.

00:30:16.760 And, you know, that quote that you had about the craving to be appreciated, I mean, it's

00:30:20.720 something that was so important to him.

00:30:22.200 He said it multiple times in how to win friends that people have this and think about the word

00:30:27.340 craving, you could use a different word, but this, you know, every single person, we all

00:30:31.680 have this, this deep desire to be appreciated, to be respected, to be valued.

00:30:36.860 And even if we think about in a workplace, what's one of the main reasons that people leave

00:30:41.560 jobs is because they don't feel appreciated.

00:30:43.600 What's one of the main reasons people leave marriages is because, you know, they don't feel

00:30:48.720 valued and appreciated.

00:30:49.800 So the principles, and this is why the Dale Carnegie program is so life-changing for so

00:30:55.440 many people who really internalize and live these, and these, I want to say too, this

00:31:00.300 is not, these are not just techniques.

00:31:02.760 These are, this is, as Dale would say, it's a way of living.

00:31:05.360 It's a way of treating people.

00:31:06.420 It's a way of honoring people so that you can make them feel important, so that you can be

00:31:11.580 honest and sincere, so you can build strong relationships, so you can have a happier life.

00:31:16.160 But one of the huge outputs we see with Dale Carnegie programs, and one of the main reasons,

00:31:21.820 by the way, that we wrote Take Command, because we wanted to write a book that would take Dale

00:31:26.300 Carnegie principles and ideas, all the ones we're talking about, and get them to a younger

00:31:31.320 audience, say, 18 or 20 to 45, 50-year-old audience, people who may not be familiar with,

00:31:38.280 as you or I am, Brett, How to Win Friends or How to Stop Worrying.

00:31:41.580 But, but the, the truisms, the things that Dale talked about 85 years ago, are every bit as true

00:31:49.400 today as they were then, what is different.

00:31:53.680 I mean, the world is different, as you said, technology is different, the way we interact

00:31:56.920 is, is, is different, but that craving to be appreciated, that desire to be respected and valued

00:32:02.280 is, is true.

00:32:04.540 Yeah, I would say that I think a lot of people are really craving that today in the 21st century,

00:32:10.380 because our, our world has become more atomized, it's hyper-individualistic, people don't belong

00:32:15.160 to small groups where they might have gotten, you know, that healthy attention and appreciation

00:32:19.340 before.

00:32:20.220 So I think a lot of people, they're, they're, I mean, you'd, you'd be surprised at how,

00:32:24.740 like, what a compliment would do for somebody at work, because oftentimes you're these big,

00:32:28.660 you work, you're at an office, and you're one of maybe thousands, and you can feel just

00:32:33.140 like in an anonymous drone.

00:32:35.060 And if you just have one person say, Hey, I really appreciate what you did with this

00:32:39.080 X thing, you can make that person's day or week.

00:32:42.680 Completely.

00:32:43.480 And it's funny because we underestimate sometimes the power and the impact of our words, but

00:32:50.320 that person in the example you gave might go home and just be on a, you know, completely

00:32:55.340 a cloud nine, so to speak, but talking about it and remembering that.

00:32:58.840 And, and it could also, they, they can build on it, you know, when, when we're recognized

00:33:03.720 for things, you know, we, we want to continue to improve on those things.

00:33:07.800 So it's one of the things that, that Dale had talked about was, you know, you praise the

00:33:12.900 slightest improvement, praise every improvement.

00:33:15.160 If we have a child that that's learning to walk, um, you know, we, we don't criticize the

00:33:20.960 child when they fall down.

00:33:22.160 You say, Hey, that's great.

00:33:22.900 Keep on going.

00:33:23.480 You could do it.

00:33:23.980 You're going to get it.

00:33:24.720 And we can do the same kinds of things in terms of our interaction with other people.

00:33:29.700 And when we give people, and, and, and he's very careful about the words he uses.

00:33:35.820 He says, honest and sincere appreciation.

00:33:38.400 It's not just, you know, it's not flattery.

00:33:41.000 It's not fake.

00:33:41.740 It's gotta be what comes from your heart.

00:33:43.300 If I'm going to give you a compliment, Brett, you know, for that compliment to be honest and

00:33:48.160 sincere, you know, versus something that's just passing.

00:33:51.460 And that's something that can have a huge impact on people, as you correctly said, you

00:33:55.480 know, for short-term and long-term as well.

00:33:58.240 I think that's a good point you made.

00:33:59.240 I think someone could read how to win friends and influence people and see these list of

00:34:03.780 suggestions or tactics and just see them just as tactics and, and say, Oh, I can use this

00:34:09.600 to manipulate people to get what I want.

00:34:12.340 Uh, and Dale would say, no, like if you're doing that, then you're missing the whole point.

00:34:15.820 There has to be an underlying sincerity for this to really work in the longterm.

00:34:20.020 And I think some of these things could work in the short term, but in the longterm, if 0.99

00:34:23.660 you don't have that sincerity, uh, it's going to wind up biting you in the butt. 0.99

00:34:28.400 No question. 0.99

00:34:28.960 You're absolutely right.

00:34:29.800 I mean, he, he spoke to that directly because I think even at the time he published how to

00:34:33.780 win friends, people might say that he was, he was accused of all these things are, you

00:34:37.940 know, are these things manipulations?

00:34:39.200 And he was very clear.

00:34:40.580 This is about the way you live, the way you treat people.

00:34:43.220 It's about treating people the right way.

00:34:45.420 And if you are simply, I mean, if you're simply using these kinds of ideas in a manipulative

00:34:52.040 way, you know, people see that they can tell when they're being flattered.

00:34:56.160 And, and, and that's certainly not what his intention was.

00:34:58.600 His intention was really to help people build better relationships and, and, and really discover

00:35:05.360 things in themselves.

00:35:06.360 It's interesting because there's a great thing.

00:35:08.060 And he says in the beginning of how to win friends, which is, you know, the sole purpose

00:35:11.960 of this book is to help you discover, develop, and profit by, he says, those, these dormant

00:35:18.680 and unused assets, right?

00:35:20.320 So in, in the prior part of the book, this professor, William James, who you mentioned,

00:35:25.260 I think earlier, you know, had said, compared to what we ought to be, we're only half awake.

00:35:29.580 We're making use of only a small part of our physical and mental resources.

00:35:34.080 So we, we possess so much more capability than, than we even know.

00:35:39.860 And these approaches are things that can help us unlock that, unlock our confidence, unlock

00:35:46.380 our relationships with other people, our, um, our abilities.

00:35:50.680 So what are some day-to-day things that people can do to show appreciation to other people?

00:35:55.760 What I would say is start even small.

00:35:58.580 Um, you know, sometimes, especially it's the beginning of the year and, and people often

00:36:03.560 have a whole range of goals and things that they want to do.

00:36:07.000 But, you know, one thing we do in our Dale Carnegie programs might say, pick one person

00:36:11.540 in your life, an important person in your life.

00:36:13.840 It could be at home, it could be at work, it could be whatever, but someone who's important

00:36:16.880 in your life that you need to have a better relationship with and practice one principle,

00:36:23.180 apply one principle, you know, from how to win friends and influence people.

00:36:27.660 And usually from maybe the first, say nine chapters, because those are really about,

00:36:31.500 you know, that, that initial, how do you start developing a better relationship with

00:36:35.700 people?

00:36:36.000 So you might say, look, I'm going to give honest and sincere appreciation to so-and-so.

00:36:41.980 So go do that today, one thing today and, and see what happens, you know, or maybe you

00:36:48.960 start to make that a habit and you say, I'm going to, and what I used to do when I took

00:36:53.100 this program was I would apply one principle every day for a week.

00:36:57.220 I would just practice and say, all right, this week I'm going to focus on, and it was

00:37:01.620 hard and I've been doing this for a long time and I'm still not very good at it, is, you

00:37:05.580 know, don't criticize, condemn, or complain.

00:37:07.820 Because exactly like you said, you know, earlier, you know, we don't want to be around people

00:37:11.980 who are just negative and complaining and down all the time.

00:37:14.420 It's like, you know, this is contagious.

00:37:15.920 So I might say, what could I do?

00:37:17.880 I could say, you know, today for one day or this week, I'm really going to pay attention

00:37:23.680 to the words that are coming out of my mouth.

00:37:25.740 I want to make sure that I'm not going to criticize, condemn, or complain.

00:37:29.260 And maybe not just out of my mouth, maybe it's the things I type on social media or the

00:37:33.260 comments I make or whatnot.

00:37:34.640 But, but if someone said, I'm going to have an awareness of how I am presenting in the

00:37:39.860 world, how I, what, what energy and what I'm putting out there, you know, that could be

00:37:44.560 something.

00:37:45.560 Let's talk about something that Dale talked about.

00:37:47.680 And you also talk about and take command is a lot of these principles of giving appreciation

00:37:52.340 to other people and making them feel important.

00:37:54.860 It's easy when you like the person.

00:37:58.100 It's hard when the person is, you don't like them.

00:38:01.740 They're difficult.

00:38:02.880 What insights from Dale Carnegie can we gleam on how to help people feel important and appreciated

00:38:09.200 when, boy, it's really like the last, that's like the last thing you want to do.

00:38:14.000 Yeah.

00:38:14.520 And it's, it's, and that's real life, right?

00:38:16.380 I mean, there are people that, you know, when we, when we think about them or see them,

00:38:21.220 we might be like, oh gosh, I know this is not going to be a good interaction, but part

00:38:25.980 of what I would say Dale would start at is, you know, number one in, he had a great quote.

00:38:33.140 He quotes Ralph Walder Emerson is someone who said, every person I meet is my superior in

00:38:38.720 some way in that I learned from them.

00:38:40.560 So, you know, he might even take somebody that is not a favorite person and say, well,

00:38:46.700 what can I learn from this person?

00:38:48.580 Or allow that person to talk and to listen, even if you don't like what they're, what

00:38:52.980 they are going to say, but just go through the exercise of, you know, going back to trying

00:38:57.040 to see things from their point of view.

00:38:58.620 I think Dale's perspective was that, you know, in most cases, you're going to find

00:39:04.400 something.

00:39:04.960 If you, if you put your own guard down and you try to focus on that person, you're going

00:39:10.220 to find something redeeming.

00:39:12.220 And if you do, that can be the beginning of, of something you build on.

00:39:15.900 Now, one of the things we talk about and take command, we have a chapter on dealing with

00:39:21.000 difficult people.

00:39:21.800 And, you know, part of the reality is that we need to have boundaries for how we're going

00:39:27.520 to let people treat us.

00:39:29.340 And do we communicate those boundaries?

00:39:31.900 Sometimes, let me give an example.

00:39:33.760 Let's just say that I have a boss who gives me a project and I'm like, oh gosh, here he

00:39:38.980 comes again.

00:39:39.560 He's going to give me too much and so forth.

00:39:41.300 Okay.

00:39:41.540 But have you, have you let the boss know that you're overwhelmed?

00:39:45.240 Have you had a conversation about, you know, if you take this on the impact it's going to

00:39:51.460 have on something else?

00:39:52.420 Sometimes we don't say anything.

00:39:53.900 We don't even open our mouths, you know?

00:39:55.840 So, you know, when we are dealing with those difficult people, we might also start with a,

00:40:02.320 you know, what are my boundaries?

00:40:04.100 And am I, have I communicated my boundaries?

00:40:07.140 Often we make assumptions about what people are thinking about us or what they're going

00:40:12.020 to do when in fact it's our assumptions that are the problem.

00:40:16.060 Sometimes we're the problem because we're blaming other people, but, but we ourselves might

00:40:20.700 have an impact on improving that relationship.

00:40:23.700 I think that's a good point.

00:40:24.380 I think a lot of people struggle with that, or at least I struggle with that, the boundary

00:40:27.620 thing.

00:40:28.580 And the problem that I have is I don't communicate them to other people.

00:40:31.980 And I just assume, well, you should just know, you should just know that this is unacceptable.

00:40:36.060 They don't know.

00:40:36.860 They don't, they don't know.

00:40:37.740 And that's, you go back to Dale Carnegie, he would say, Brett, that's a completely different

00:40:41.580 person.

00:40:42.360 They have no clue what you're thinking.

00:40:43.700 In order for that to, to happen, you have to communicate your boundaries.

00:40:48.160 Absolutely right.

00:40:49.940 And get people the benefit of the doubt, at least in the beginning, you know, I mean,

00:40:54.220 certainly, you know, it is rumored and I don't know if this is true.

00:40:58.920 You know, Dale Carnegie and how to win friends has 30 principles and it's rumored that he had

00:41:04.520 considered a 31st principle, which is that if none of these principles work, kick them in 0.81

00:41:09.000 the shins and leave, but that never made the book. 0.92

00:41:14.000 So I guess it's kind of just maybe more of a story.

00:41:18.860 But, you know, I think he would say you really try to work with people and you think about

00:41:23.280 how you can work with people.

00:41:24.860 And in some cases, if it's not going to work, it's not going to work.

00:41:28.100 But you do everything you can to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to build the

00:41:33.440 best relationship you can.

00:41:34.460 But there are some situations where, you know, you need to break the relationship where you

00:41:39.040 say you shouldn't be around someone who's going to be persistently negative or someone

00:41:42.620 who's just going to bring you down or someone who's acting in a way that violates your values

00:41:46.740 or your principles.

00:41:48.100 So, you know, there is a place for that too.

00:41:51.020 Yeah. 1.00

00:41:51.140 You got to kick them in the shins. 1.00

00:41:53.640 So to speak. 1.00

00:41:54.380 So to speak.

00:41:55.100 Yeah.

00:41:55.620 Yeah.

00:41:55.860 I think that's a good point.

00:41:56.680 Give people the benefit of the doubt.

00:41:58.280 Whenever I've done that, it seems to go better.

00:42:00.700 Every now and then you get burned, but I think it's the price you got to pay for just having

00:42:06.200 a good trustworthy society.

00:42:08.760 Let's talk about this third section, which is about developing a vision for your life.

00:42:13.600 Curious, how did this come out of Dale Carnegie's work?

00:42:15.980 Or is this something that developed after how to win friends and influence people and how

00:42:20.640 to stop worrying were written?

00:42:22.540 Yeah.

00:42:22.700 So this third part of the book is really comes from the Dale Carnegie course.

00:42:27.100 So just to take it one step back, and I think you've done a great job of touching on this.

00:42:32.240 The first part of take command is take command of your thoughts and emotions.

00:42:37.060 You know, so if you, I mean, you can't, you can't do anything if you can't take command

00:42:42.480 of yourself first.

00:42:43.480 How do you deal with stress and worry?

00:42:45.120 How do you deal with, you know, negativity or negative thoughts and so forth?

00:42:48.560 You build in yourself that resilience.

00:42:51.100 And so that comes from how to stop worrying and start living.

00:42:54.240 And then we've built on that.

00:42:55.220 The second part, how to win friends, it comes from how to win friends and influence people

00:42:59.220 is take command of your relationships.

00:43:00.760 So all the wisdom of Dale Carnegie, we've synthesized and built on in that second part.

00:43:05.440 So this third part, which goes to your question about where did this come from, is take command

00:43:09.820 of your future.

00:43:11.020 You know, what's your vision for yourself?

00:43:12.480 Are you living an intentional life?

00:43:14.440 And so in the Dale Carnegie course, and these are courses that come, you know, you can take

00:43:18.940 a three-day Dale Carnegie course, an eight-week or 12-week, there's different versions of this,

00:43:22.900 but they all focus on this idea of being intentional, of taking risk, of, you know, sometimes, and I

00:43:31.640 know about you, Brett, I've certainly had the occasion where, say you get on social media and

00:43:36.580 you find yourself scrolling, you're scrolling, next thing you know, an hour's gone by, you're

00:43:39.720 like, oh my gosh, where'd that time go?

00:43:40.960 And if that's what you wanted to do, that's fine, but our lives can often get caught up

00:43:46.760 in these unintentional activities.

00:43:50.560 And so days go by, you get caught up in to-do lists and so forth, days and weeks and months,

00:43:54.980 all of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, years have gone by.

00:43:57.680 So in the Dale Carnegie course, we focus on, in part three of take command, we focus on

00:44:03.520 what's important to you, Brett?

00:44:06.400 What's important to, you know, you, is it your family?

00:44:10.660 Is it your friends?

00:44:12.820 Is it your future?

00:44:14.020 Is it your faith?

00:44:15.020 Is it your fitness?

00:44:15.940 What is it?

00:44:16.980 You know, but what's the future like that you want for yourself?

00:44:21.000 And then what are the things you need to do to kind of go in that direction?

00:44:24.360 Because at the end of the day, if someone's reading take command, we want them to be able

00:44:28.440 to live the life that they want.

00:44:30.120 And you can't do that if you don't know what kind of life you want.

00:44:33.880 So that's, that's a lot of where that came from.

00:44:36.780 So yeah, the first part is just developing a vision for your life.

00:44:39.140 And there's some, you offer some great questions of reflection that people can ask themselves,

00:44:43.160 practices of developing maybe a vision statement that's going to guide all the big decisions

00:44:48.000 you make.

00:44:48.460 And I, I love how you laid it out in the book.

00:44:50.600 And then also I talk about, you know, making sure you develop a life of meaning.

00:44:54.540 I think oftentimes when people think about self-improvement, they're thinking about how can

00:44:59.000 I advance my career, how to make more money, how can I get more fit?

00:45:02.500 But, but what you do in that last chapter is talk about, well, that's, that's all fine

00:45:06.080 and good, but don't forget to develop a life of meaning.

00:45:09.440 And that often comes through serving others.

00:45:12.420 That's right.

00:45:13.300 I mean, so often we can be, especially when we're younger, very self-focused and, and

00:45:18.640 understandably so we're focused on our careers and getting established and so forth.

00:45:22.660 But if we talk to people who are at the end of their lives and they're reflecting on their

00:45:26.400 lives and so many surveys have, have talked about this, you know, people will often regret

00:45:33.140 things that they didn't do or relationships that they didn't repair or, you know, just

00:45:38.020 they, they maybe thought that they would have had more of an impact.

00:45:41.160 And we think it's very important to think about, you know, how do you want to be remembered

00:45:45.980 or what impact can you have?

00:45:47.260 And it doesn't have to be, you know, we certainly have some stories and some examples of people

00:45:50.980 who had massive impact, you know, someone who is just so upset about the oceans that

00:45:58.500 she starts the largest sustainable ocean alliance in the world, you know, so there are those

00:46:03.840 kinds of things, certainly.

00:46:05.600 But then we also have, you know, stories about people.

00:46:08.420 I tell a story about my father, who was a recovering alcoholic who spent 51 years without a drink

00:46:13.080 and, you know, who, who touched people around him and encouraged them to stay sober.

00:46:19.220 I mean, so we, we can have impacts as you as a father, you, you, you know, you were talking

00:46:23.440 about your son and in wanting your son to be successful and thriving as he gets older and

00:46:30.760 you're working with him.

00:46:31.760 I mean, that that's impact, but it starts with you saying, this is how I want to spend my

00:46:36.260 time.

00:46:36.640 You're not spending your time at that particular point doing something else.

00:46:39.720 You're making time for your son.

00:46:41.440 And this part of the book is really an important section that gets to what's important to you.

00:46:47.460 Take some time and think about what are your values?

00:46:49.820 Who are the people?

00:46:51.040 What's the vision you want for yourself?

00:46:52.520 What's the impact you want to have?

00:46:54.480 Yeah.

00:46:54.520 You talk, you quote, we've had David Brooks on the podcast to talk about the second mountain.

00:46:58.380 And it's an idea that's really had a big impact on the way I think about my life trajectory.

00:47:03.100 And, uh, you know, he has this idea.

00:47:05.080 There's, uh, there's two mountains and I think Richard Rohr, he's a Franciscan monk has this

00:47:08.800 idea as well.

00:47:09.740 I think that's where David Brooks got it from.

00:47:11.440 But it's like the first mountain of life is, you know, our typical, what we typically think

00:47:15.100 of success goals, getting a career, going to college, getting fit.

00:47:19.380 And then he says, there's this second mountain that we'll have to summon in life.

00:47:22.080 And that's about, it's not about the opportunities of the first mountain.

00:47:25.880 It's, um, about kind of rejecting them and looking for, uh, more of a life of meaning.

00:47:30.360 And that, and like, it could, that could look different for, for different people.

00:47:33.720 It could be, you spend time doing community service with, uh, children or sports team,

00:47:39.900 or it could be like you're a grand grandfather and you're going to spend more time with your,

00:47:43.480 with your grandkids.

00:47:44.160 It's going to, the second mountain usually chooses you.

00:47:46.620 Uh, I think that's right.

00:47:49.540 And often it's, it's based on your situation and it, it does choose you.

00:47:54.920 I think it also connects to your values though.

00:47:57.220 I mean, so in other words, it's, it, you know, there's, there's a saying that, um, when

00:48:01.020 the student is ready, the teacher appears.

00:48:02.680 And, and I think that's true a little bit about legacy when, you know, there's certain things

00:48:07.300 that are important to us, certain things that connect to, uh, our meaning.

00:48:11.620 And, and, you know, we, we might, as we look around, see things that connect to those and

00:48:17.160 that's great.

00:48:17.620 So go, go toward those things, whether it's, as you said, I mean, it could be your family

00:48:22.820 or it could be your, you know, people around you at work.

00:48:25.980 It could be something larger or some sort of a legacy kind of a thing.

00:48:30.200 But, you know, the reality is that, you know, we are in a life right now and this is the life

00:48:35.580 that we have.

00:48:36.280 And as I said, in the book, my dad always used to say, we're not, no one gets out alive.

00:48:40.840 So, you know, in every day that we have, um, and again, I, I say this not in a macabre

00:48:46.240 or a negative way, in a way to cherish the value of every single day, you know, every

00:48:51.420 day that you have is one less day that you have left.

00:48:54.300 So we've got to really make those days count.

00:48:57.880 And if we've, and this goes back even to mindset, if we've got the right mindset, boy, we

00:49:02.280 can see opportunity all around us.

00:49:04.360 We can see wonderful things and gifts and just great things around us.

00:49:09.340 If we have our minds open to that.

00:49:12.460 Well, Joe, this has been a great conversation.

00:49:13.920 Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?

00:49:16.940 So the first place I'd say is dalecarnegie.com.

00:49:20.320 That is really all about our Dale Carnegie organization.

00:49:24.160 Also, there's a, a site, which is, um, takecommand.com.

00:49:28.760 They can also go to takecommandbook.io, which will take them directly to Amazon to buy the

00:49:34.580 book if they want to do that.

00:49:36.260 I'm also very active on LinkedIn and Twitter with the, uh, the handle of Joseph K. Hart.

00:49:43.820 So people can follow me certainly.

00:49:45.780 And I'll continue to share insights and experiences and things as I go along my way.

00:49:50.360 But, um, yeah, those are all different things.

00:49:53.560 And if people, you know, my, my hope would be too, I, you know, I hope that people, you

00:49:59.520 know, have the mindset of, of wanting to get better.

00:50:02.060 I mean, I'm assuming, Brett, that because they're listening to your podcast and you've

00:50:04.840 got a phenomenal podcast and site and organization that you, you lead, that they are interested

00:50:10.500 in, in self-improvement, um, the single most valuable thing I've ever done for my self-improvement

00:50:15.440 was to take a Dale Carnegie course.

00:50:17.320 Um, so I would certainly encourage people who are open to that, to do that, but reading

00:50:21.880 how to win friends, reading how to stop worrying, reading, take command.

00:50:24.800 Those are things also that can help people on their journey.

00:50:27.300 And that's really our hope.

00:50:29.000 Our hope is to have an impact.

00:50:30.940 That was Dale's hope.

00:50:32.360 You know, Dale really cared about people and, and helping people live the life that they

00:50:37.220 wanted to lead.

00:50:38.480 Well, Joe Hart, thanks for your time.

00:50:39.340 It's been a pleasure.

00:50:39.760 Thank you, Brett.

00:50:41.500 My guest there was Joe Hart.

00:50:42.740 He's the coauthor of the book, take command.

00:50:44.700 It's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere.

00:50:46.940 You can find more information about Dale Carnegie and associates at dalecarnegie.com.

00:50:51.060 Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash Carnegie, where you can find links to resources,

00:50:55.460 where you can delve deeper into this topic.

00:51:03.940 Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast.

00:51:06.700 Make sure to check out our website at artofmanliness.com, where you can find our

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00:51:40.900 Until next time, it's Brett McKay.

00:51:42.320 Remind you to only listen to the AOM podcast, but put what you've heard into action.

00:51:45.700 We'll see you next time.

00:52:15.700 Bye.

00:52:16.700 Bye.

00:52:17.700 Bye.

00:52:18.700 Bye.

00:52:19.700 Bye.

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00:52:21.700 Bye.

The Art of Manliness - January 19, 2023

How to Win Friends and Influence People in the 21st Century

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