How to Win Friends and Influence People in the 21st Century
Episode Stats
Summary
Dale Carnegie's advice on how to win friends and influence people can still be a favorite of a kid in the 21st century. In this episode, we begin our conversation with some background on the guy who kicked off this work back in 1936, and then talk about what principles we can take from How to Stop Worrying and Start Living on developing a positive mindset.
Transcript
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Hey, this is Brett, we're taking a break from new episodes today, so we're rebroadcasting
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episode number 865, How to Win Friends and Influence People in the 21st Century.
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Hope you enjoy it, we'll see you on Wednesday with a brand new episode.
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Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.
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Over the past year, my 12-year-old son has been doing one challenge every week as a rite
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of passage and a chance to earn a special trip.
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Some of these challenges have involved reading a book in a week, and the most recent book
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we gave him was How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.
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So, a book written almost 90 years ago can still be a favorite of a kid in the 21st Century.
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The advice on How to Win Friends and Influence People, and Dale Carnegie's other classic,
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How to Stop Worrying and Start Living, is timeless.
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But to help introduce it to a new audience, my guest, Joe Hart, has recently co-authored
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the book, Take Command, which synthesizes, updates, and adds to the principles of Carnegie's
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Joe is the president and CEO of Dale Carnegie & Associates, which continues Carnegie's work
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And we begin our conversation with some background on the guy who kicked off this work back in
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We then talk about what principles we can take from How to Stop Worrying and Start Living
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From there, we talk about the big overarching principle of How to Win Friends and Influence
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People, and how you can use it to improve your relationships.
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We enter a conversation with how to live life with more intentionality and meaning.
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After the show's over, check out our show notes at aom.is slash Carnegie.
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So you are the president of Dale Carnegie & Associates.
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Dale Carnegie, he famously wrote How to Win Friends and Influence People, and How to Stop
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What are those books about that he wrote, and how did Dale Carnegie's background put him
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Yeah, Dale Carnegie is one of the most incredible people.
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I've always loved biographies, reading about people.
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His life is truly was an extraordinary one, and he was brilliant in terms of his insights.
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He was fairly poor, and he had a struggling childhood, a wonderful, warm family, parents
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who loved him, a brother, a nice family that supported him.
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And the reason why that's important is he really always had the sense of wanting to overcome
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His parents had moved near a college when he was in his teen years so that he could attend
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And in that experience, he discovered that he had a gift for debate, for public speaking,
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And that kind of instilled in him a desire to really to learn and to leverage that.
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And then he went on to become really an extraordinary salesperson for the Armour Meat Packing Company.
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And rather than going into management, he decided to go to New York City.
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And ultimately, in 1912, began offering classes at the YMCA in New York City on public speaking.
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And he was teaching techniques of public speaking.
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So he started to invite the participants up to the room as he started to notice that they
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And he discovered just the power of having someone stand up in front of an audience and
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And the fear and the lack of confidence, all the different things that went along that.
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And so that was the beginning in 1912 of the Dale Carnegie Chorus, now 110 years later plus.
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And so many millions and millions of people who've taken that program.
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But what he discovered was that it was really more about even human relations and the things
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And how do we overcome the limiting beliefs that we have?
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But what influence or what impact did it have on the culture when it first came out?
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You think about you're still in the midst of the depression and challenges and so forth.
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And even prior to the book, I mean, the book was an outgrowth, as you said correctly,
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In fact, the way the book came about was because there was a man named Leon Shimkin who worked
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for Simon & Schuster, who was taking one of Dale's programs.
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You know, you should really turn this into a book.
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But Leon Shimkin convinced him to at least let us kind of record what you're doing.
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And that became How to Win Friends and Influence People, or at least the first version of it.
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But when that book came out in 1936, Dale himself didn't know what to expect, but it immediately
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And it's been a bestselling book now for over 85 years.
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It's one of the top selling books of the 20th century, correct?
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Yeah, it's certainly one of the top books, bestselling books of all time.
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In fact, the New York Public Library not long ago did a survey of the most checked out books
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Time had listed as one of the most influential books ever as well.
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So the impact of this, and the reason why this book has been so successful is, I think,
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number one, Dale Carnegie had a phenomenal ability to tell stories.
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And really, the book is about stories, but it's about the insights about how people can
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And for people to read this, they have their own epiphanies about either relationships that
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they have or things that they need to do or how they can advance in their lives, in their
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And so it's been a catalyst for so many people to just, you know, ignite amazing results
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in their lives, which is why, you know, you and I were talking before we started just about
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having your son, you know, read How to Win Friends.
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And so many people will tell me that their father, their mother had them read How to Win
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We just had an international convention in New York City, and some of the speakers, you know,
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is hugely successful business people had said that, you know, that I read this book when
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I was younger, and it had this, it was formative, it was foundational in terms of my life and
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How does the Dale Carnegie and Associates company carry on the work laid down by Dale Carnegie?
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Because I was surprised that there's still a Dale Carnegie company.
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We are an organization that has 200 operations in over 80 countries.
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So we're a global organization, we've got thousands of people that are part of Dale
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Carnegie, we operate, you know, regionally, and so you can actually take a Dale Carnegie
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But there are a number of different things that we're teaching.
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So one of the programs is the Dale Carnegie course.
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I mean, if you googled Dale Carnegie and Warren Buffett, you'd watch a video of him talking about
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how when he took the Dale Carnegie course as a young person, it completely just changed
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everything for him, his life would not be the same.
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That course is about interpersonal skills and self-confidence and leadership and stress
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And we have individuals that will take that course, we'll have companies that will bring
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us in and we'll provide that really as a cultural tool to help create stronger, more
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We work with, you know, 400 of the Fortune 500 companies.
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But that program is the one that he had started, it's changed over the years, but it's available
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We've got leadership programs and sales programs and a whole range of other kinds of things.
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So I was thinking about when I discovered Dale Carnegie, and it was in high school, I don't
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I think I might have just stumbled upon it in Barnes and Noble and picked it up and bought
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it and just like, this is great, underlined it, highlighted it.
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I'm curious, how did you discover Dale Carnegie and how did his work change your life?
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My experience was maybe a little bit similar to yours in the sense that I was a teenager
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and my father, my father had a huge influence on me.
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He always believed that life was about personal growth and he was talking about goal setting
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And one of the things he shared with me was Dale Carnegie, I mean, how to win friends
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And admittedly, you know, I'd love to tell you that I read that cover to cover over and
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And, you know, I really, I didn't, I read it and I thought it was great.
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I was really impressed by what I read and I thought about my father and just how, you
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know, amazing my dad was interacting with other people.
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But it planted the seed even more so that when I was in my 20s, I was a young lawyer and I
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wanted to take a Dale Carnegie course and I wanted to do that just because I wanted to
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invest in myself and advance my career and so forth.
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And that was one of the most defining moments of my life, walking into that class, because
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It gave me skills in terms of how to interact with people more effectively.
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I think as a young lawyer, I was a little bit, oh, hard edged, arrogant, maybe not particularly
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empathetic, and it just completely opened my eyes.
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And people started to notice immediately, they're like, gosh, what's, you know, you seem
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I really started to apply the Dale Carnegie principles.
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So one of the things that in early in a Dale Carnegie program, you know, we talk about is,
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And so many people go through their lives and they just find themselves older and they say,
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And the program says, what's your vision for yourself?
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And so I ultimately decided to leave the practice of law because I said, you know, I may be a successful
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lawyer, but I'm not necessarily a happy lawyer.
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And in fact, it was Dale Carnegie that inspired me to start my first business because that first
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business was an e-learning company in 2000 that was all about helping people apply things
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And in fact, Dale Carnegie became my first client.
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I developed e-learning programs in the early 2000s for Dale Carnegie that were used in multiple
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So you got a new book out that you co-authored with Michael Krom called Take Command, Find
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Your Inner Strength, Build Enduring Relationships, and Live the Life You Want.
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And what you've done, you've taken the ideas from Dale Carnegie and you've updated them for
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And to be clear, what I love about Dale Carnegie is his stuff's timeless.
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The things that are applied in 1936 are still applicable today, but things are different.
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And then also what's interesting too is a lot of the insights that Dale had in his books
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It's been interesting to see in the past 20 years, those ideas being verified by psychology
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And you talk about those insights in this book.
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And the first part, you focus on taking command of your thoughts and emotions.
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And this was a big theme in Carnegie's book, How to Stop Worrying.
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Whenever I have those periods in my life when I'm just, things are going crazy and I'm feeling
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overwhelmed, I always bust out that book, flip open on a random page, and you'll find
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some insight that will like, oh, okay, that gives me some perspectives, gives me a tool.
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Let's talk about getting a handle on our thoughts.
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What advice did Dale have about avoiding negative thinking?
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Because I think this is something that a lot of people struggle with.
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Yeah, it's interesting just to go back to what you're saying, because How to Stop Worrying
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and Start Living, maybe the lesser known of Dale Carnegie's books.
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And yet, in so many ways, particularly given all that we've gone through over the past
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several years and all the stress in the world, is such a meaningful and valuable book.
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And in fact, that book for me was a critical one in terms of challenges I faced during the
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pandemic and leading a company, leading a global company and all the stress and so forth.
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But that book really outlines his thinking about how to stop worrying and start living.
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And that really comes down to how do we manage our thoughts and our emotions.
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And he had a whole range of principles that he talked about.
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But I think the big epiphany for me is when he really talks about the power of our mindset.
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He's not using the word mindset like we might today, but the power of our thoughts and how
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you can have two people in the exact same situation with the same set of facts that one person
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The difference is how we think and the things that we tell ourselves and how we process our
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And so much of how to stop worrying and start living is really getting people to think about
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their thoughts and to change their thoughts and to look at things differently.
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And sometimes people will say, well, is that just simply changing your overlooking challenges
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or you're living with rose-colored glasses or something.
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I mean, Dale Carnegie was a realist and certainly went through challenges in his life.
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But his point would be that if you focus on the right frame or way of thinking, you can
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overcome challenges far more effectively than if all you're doing is focused on problems and
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So, you know, some of the different, you know, techniques that he talked about and some of
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the different, you know, maybe ideas, you know, which today we might say, well, of course
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that seems obvious, but at the time, maybe not so much.
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And the other thing we say, Brett, is that often these things are common sense, but they're
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You know, but actually taking a step and filling your mind with thoughts of peace and courage,
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You know, so what are the things I'm saying to myself?
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So if I think back about the pandemic, I mean, this was a pivotal idea for me because there
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was a point in time where my mind was just going to the worst possible outcomes and results
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You know, if in fact, you know, every action is an opposite and equal reaction, and this is
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an unprecedented crisis, where's the opportunity here?
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We flipped and changed our entire business significantly, and I think that was because
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the people in our organization had the mindset that said, you know, this is really incredible
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that our entire operation is being shut down because we were face-to-face, in-person classes
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Another thing might be around, you know, asking yourself, what's the worst possible thing that
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can happen, accepting that, and then working back.
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So often, we generate just so much negativity and fear and worry because we think about all
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But the second that we accept, all right, what's the worst possible thing that could happen,
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and then you work back from that, it releases the ability to think with clarity and to build
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something that we say to ourselves, gosh, first of all, it's probably not going to happen.
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And second of all, even if it does happen, I can deal with that.
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So, I mean, those were a couple of the things he talked about.
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One other one that we talk about in the book, which is along these lines, is cooperating
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I mean, so much of the challenge we have with change, say we talk about change, there's
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a lot of change in the world and change is a constant, you know, but it's our resistance
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to change, it's the fighting, it's the worry around it.
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But if we accept that some things are going to happen, then we can put ourselves in a position
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to build from that and to be more constructive in terms of what kind of results we really want.
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Well, let's talk about developing a positive mindset.
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This is something that Dale Carnegie talked a lot about because he understood that people,
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That's something I like to be around cheerful people.
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It's tough to be around people who are Debbie Downers.
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What did Dale say about some practices we can incorporate to develop a more positive mindset?
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Well, one of the things he talked about was, and he says this kind of glibly, you know,
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is it a bad thing for us to give ourselves a pep talk?
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You know, we have this voice in our heads or, you know, kind of these thoughts that go
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They are, you can't do this or you're not very good or why would you try that?
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You're just going to fail or whatever those things are.
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So, you know, part of his advice was to confront those kinds of thoughts, those voices, if you
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will, and to focus on the things that have worked for you.
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Focus on, you know, your successes, you know, give yourself a pep talk.
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And that's one of the things we talk about in the book as well, which is, you know, people
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are capable of so much more than they often think that they are.
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They've got to have focus on perspective, look back to look forward.
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And if you can't do that for yourself, find someone who can help bring that out in you.
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Have someone to talk to who will reaffirm for you those positive things that are about who
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But one of the things, again, he talked about was give yourself a pep talk.
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He also talked about, you know, expecting or counting your blessings.
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So this goes to mindset, looking at the things that are going right instead of the things that
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At any given time, we can think about the whole innumerable things in our lives that aren't
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You know, what are the things that you're going to look at that, you know, that are positive
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He talks a lot about gratitude and how it's very difficult to be grateful and unhappy at
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He encourages people to act, act enthusiastic and you'll be enthusiastic, so to speak, or
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act, you know, with confidence and you'll be confident.
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Put your shoulders back, put a smile on your face, you know, do some of these kinds of things
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that if you do them, you're going to start all of a sudden becoming and believing that.
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Yeah, I think a lot of people feel silly doing those things because it makes them feel like
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But the alternative, as you said, is, well, you can just be negative and feel unconfident.
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You can give yourself a pep talk, you know, in your closet before you go off to work.
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You don't have to do it in front of people, you know, out in public.
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I mean, I think, you know, over the years, and again, Dale was one of the first people
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to start to articulate these ideas and these thoughts.
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So now, of course, all these years later, there's a whole range of other people out there
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And he was never, you know, kind of the Stuart Smalley kind of, you know, a mindset.
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You can have the conversation in your own mind.
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But what he's basically saying is, you know, you need to focus.
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And you can create the life that you want if you think a certain way.
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He quotes, and one of the most powerful quotes in How to Stop Worrying and Start Living comes
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from the Emperor Marcus Aurelius, who says, you know, our lives are what our thoughts make
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So if I'm dwelling on just all the things that are going wrong or all kinds of problems,
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then, yeah, I probably can expect things aren't going to go very well for me.
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On the other hand, and by the way, and Dale Carnegie is a global organization, we conduct
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research, and we've conducted research on resilience and agility.
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And part of what we found is that people who expect better results generally get them, and
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they get them because their mindset is conditioned to look for them, to look for opportunity.
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But if my mindset is there is no opportunity, this is a failure, there's nothing good that's
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going to come from that, I'm not going to see those things, even though they could be
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One of the key insights that Dale Carnegie had, I'm going to quote it.
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I think this was in How to Win Friends and Influence People, but we're going to bring this
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He says, when dealing with people, let us remember we are not dealing with creatures
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And we're probably going to talk about this when we talk about how to win friends and influence
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But this idea that we like to think we're rational agents, and we are to an extent, but
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What did Dale say about how we can get control of our emotions so that we can have those private
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victories in our own personal lives, but also have a control of our emotions so when we're
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dealing with other emotional creatures who might be difficult, we don't lose control
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of ourselves, and we can influence these people in a positive direction.
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Any tactics Dale recommended on controlling our emotions?
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And it's such an important question, and I really appreciate kind of the way you framed
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So, you know, because the whole first set of principles, the first 30 principles that
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come from how to win friends and influence people, you know, are based on the idea that
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we're interacting with another person, and we just have to recognize, we may think in
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our minds, well, this person is thinking logically, so if I've given appreciation to this person,
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or I think I've respected someone, I've treated them a certain way, but they're not necessarily
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They may be perceiving something just based on how you said something, or how you looked,
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So his point is, first of all, let's be aware of the fact that when we're interacting with
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other people, that they are creatures of emotion.
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They may be angry, or upset, or petty, or whatever it is.
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And we have to take those things into consideration when we're acting or interacting with other people.
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So, if I am a boss, so to speak, or a supervisor, and I've got someone I'm dealing with, I'm going
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to think first about our principle number one, which is don't criticize, condemn, or complain.
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There are ways that I can approach something with someone.
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It doesn't mean I'm not going to give feedback, and it doesn't mean I'm not going to confront
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But it does mean that the person may act defensively if the first thing I come in and say,
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You know, I mean, how many times are we going to have this conversation, Brett?
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I mean, you know, so recognizing the emotional component, and instead he might say something
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like, you know, look, begin in a friendly way, which is, okay, what can I appreciate
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If I think Brett is really trying to do a good job, and he's made a mistake, let's focus
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So I'm thinking about kind of this emotional component about how someone's going to react
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You can say almost anything if you say it the right way, but just recognize we're not computers.
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We're not just, you know, passing information back and forth.
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Yeah, and I think if you have a better control of your emotions, let's say someone does something
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that just, like, first response, it irritates you.
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Dale would say, well, how's that working out for you?
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And so Dale would say, well, you need to get a better control of your own emotions so that
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when you interact with others, it's more successful.
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And in fact, it's funny because some of these principles that he talks about in How to Win
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Friends and Influence People, I mean, these are easy in the abstract, but they're hard
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And they do require us to get kind of control of our own emotions so that we can effectively
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So using the example you just gave of a child who's done something wrong, if you come in
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with guns blazing, you're going to get one result.
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But part of what when Dale talks about leadership and being a leader, he says, begin with praise
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If I'm frustrated with someone, I'm going to start with praise and honest appreciation,
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And if I do that, that person who's on the other end of that is going to respond hopefully
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in a much more constructive and positive way than if I just kind of come in and sort of
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Calling attention to people's mistakes indirectly versus coming out and just, and we talk also
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about this idea of letting the other person save face.
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At the emotional level, we all want to be appreciated and respected.
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And if we feel like those principles are being violated, we're going to be defensive.
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We could probably all remember experiences that we've had with someone who just attacked
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So you give some ideas on how you can get better control of your emotions.
00:25:46.760
And it's really, it just comes down to being mindful of them, noticing them, asking questions
00:25:53.940
And that can go a long way to harnessing your emotions for positive ends.
00:25:58.680
We're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
00:26:08.860
I want to delve deeper into the how to win friends and influence people aspect of your
00:26:14.480
So we've kind of been talking about different practices that Dale recommended.
00:26:18.540
I want to drill deeper into these, but correct me if I'm wrong.
00:26:22.000
I think the big insight that Dale Carnegie had in how to win friends and influence people
00:26:28.060
is that you, in order to have success with other people, like you were saying earlier,
00:26:33.160
you have to understand these are individuals with their own desires, needs, emotions, and
00:26:38.420
the key to success in managing or working with other people is getting inside of their own
00:26:44.820
head and trying to really figure out what they're thinking, feeling, et cetera.
00:26:51.940
You know, if there's one kind of overriding principle, and I was thinking about this prior
00:26:57.900
tour or interview from how to win friends and influence people, and it's not necessarily
00:27:03.420
spoken in this way by Dale, but it is that it's not about you.
00:27:09.180
It's, you know, we tend to think about things purely from our own point of view.
00:27:14.720
But part of what he's saying is, you know, think about the other person.
00:27:20.160
If you've got an audience, think about the audience.
00:27:28.260
You know, one of the most important principles Dale talks about is our principle 17, try honestly
00:27:33.160
to see things from the other person's point of view.
00:27:36.140
And really think about how polarized our world is, Brett, today, right?
00:27:40.180
I mean, it's, you know, how often do we really just take a step back and say, I really want
00:27:52.380
And, you know, from a personal standpoint, to give honest and sincere appreciation or to
00:27:58.120
try to become genuinely interested in other people, Dale had said something.
00:28:01.920
I may not be quoting this exactly right, but you can gain more friends in two months by
00:28:06.520
becoming interested in them versus two years of trying to get them interested in you.
00:28:11.820
So, so the idea is we think about the other person, we honor the other person, we respect
00:28:17.400
And that's also something that builds relationship, which is a goal that we all have our lives.
00:28:22.660
So much of our lives are around strong connections, whether it's people with whom we work, whether
00:28:28.540
Sometimes we deal with difficult people around us, you know, so, so being really skilled at interacting
00:28:35.140
with other people is super important, not just practically from, from a work standpoint
00:28:39.880
or so forth, but also just from a life satisfaction standpoint.
00:28:43.780
I mean, so much of our happiness comes down to the quality of our relationships and, and
00:28:47.980
so much of this then comes down to, it kind of goes back to what you're saying here, putting
00:28:52.700
myself, I want to say in checking myself and really focusing on that other person.
00:28:59.480
Well, I think another, you, you keyed in on another big takeaway that I took from how to
00:29:04.380
So first one is if you want to really have success with people, you need to mentalize
00:29:08.940
that is get inside their head and try to figure out how they're seeing things or feeling things.
00:29:13.820
But the other second principle is if you want to win friends and influence people, and you
00:29:17.360
said this, you got to make people feel important.
00:29:20.140
And I think this is a key insight into human nature that Carnegie unearthed in this book.
00:29:25.240
And in fact, he quotes several prominent thinkers through the ages who talk about humans need
00:29:32.680
You know, he said, John Dewey said the deepest urge in human nature is the desire to be important.
00:29:37.560
William James, the father of psychology said the deepest principle in human nature is the
00:29:43.940
And then there's this other insight from Craig Groeschel.
00:29:46.960
He is a, he's a pastor here of a big church in Oklahoma, but he's got a leadership podcast.
00:29:51.960
And he has this thing that he says that really sticks with me.
00:29:55.440
He says that the thing that people crave the most is to be noticed and needed.
00:29:59.120
And, uh, I think Dale really, he, he mined that and he saw, this is really important.
00:30:04.420
If you want to really have influence over people, you need to help them feel important.
00:30:08.140
And then the rest of the principles and how to win friends and influence people are designed
00:30:16.760
And, you know, that quote that you had about the craving to be appreciated, I mean, it's
00:30:22.200
He said it multiple times in how to win friends that people have this and think about the word
00:30:27.340
craving, you could use a different word, but this, you know, every single person, we all
00:30:31.680
have this, this deep desire to be appreciated, to be respected, to be valued.
00:30:36.860
And even if we think about in a workplace, what's one of the main reasons that people leave
00:30:43.600
What's one of the main reasons people leave marriages is because, you know, they don't feel
00:30:49.800
So the principles, and this is why the Dale Carnegie program is so life-changing for so
00:30:55.440
many people who really internalize and live these, and these, I want to say too, this
00:31:02.760
These are, this is, as Dale would say, it's a way of living.
00:31:06.420
It's a way of honoring people so that you can make them feel important, so that you can be
00:31:11.580
honest and sincere, so you can build strong relationships, so you can have a happier life.
00:31:16.160
But one of the huge outputs we see with Dale Carnegie programs, and one of the main reasons,
00:31:21.820
by the way, that we wrote Take Command, because we wanted to write a book that would take Dale
00:31:26.300
Carnegie principles and ideas, all the ones we're talking about, and get them to a younger
00:31:31.320
audience, say, 18 or 20 to 45, 50-year-old audience, people who may not be familiar with,
00:31:38.280
as you or I am, Brett, How to Win Friends or How to Stop Worrying.
00:31:41.580
But, but the, the truisms, the things that Dale talked about 85 years ago, are every bit as true
00:31:53.680
I mean, the world is different, as you said, technology is different, the way we interact
00:31:56.920
is, is, is different, but that craving to be appreciated, that desire to be respected and valued
00:32:04.540
Yeah, I would say that I think a lot of people are really craving that today in the 21st century,
00:32:10.380
because our, our world has become more atomized, it's hyper-individualistic, people don't belong
00:32:15.160
to small groups where they might have gotten, you know, that healthy attention and appreciation
00:32:20.220
So I think a lot of people, they're, they're, I mean, you'd, you'd be surprised at how,
00:32:24.740
like, what a compliment would do for somebody at work, because oftentimes you're these big,
00:32:28.660
you work, you're at an office, and you're one of maybe thousands, and you can feel just
00:32:35.060
And if you just have one person say, Hey, I really appreciate what you did with this
00:32:39.080
X thing, you can make that person's day or week.
00:32:43.480
And it's funny because we underestimate sometimes the power and the impact of our words, but
00:32:50.320
that person in the example you gave might go home and just be on a, you know, completely
00:32:55.340
a cloud nine, so to speak, but talking about it and remembering that.
00:32:58.840
And, and it could also, they, they can build on it, you know, when, when we're recognized
00:33:03.720
for things, you know, we, we want to continue to improve on those things.
00:33:07.800
So it's one of the things that, that Dale had talked about was, you know, you praise the
00:33:12.900
slightest improvement, praise every improvement.
00:33:15.160
If we have a child that that's learning to walk, um, you know, we, we don't criticize the
00:33:24.720
And we can do the same kinds of things in terms of our interaction with other people.
00:33:29.700
And when we give people, and, and, and he's very careful about the words he uses.
00:33:43.300
If I'm going to give you a compliment, Brett, you know, for that compliment to be honest and
00:33:48.160
sincere, you know, versus something that's just passing.
00:33:51.460
And that's something that can have a huge impact on people, as you correctly said, you
00:33:59.240
I think someone could read how to win friends and influence people and see these list of
00:34:03.780
suggestions or tactics and just see them just as tactics and, and say, Oh, I can use this
00:34:12.340
Uh, and Dale would say, no, like if you're doing that, then you're missing the whole point.
00:34:15.820
There has to be an underlying sincerity for this to really work in the longterm.
00:34:20.020
And I think some of these things could work in the short term, but in the longterm, if
00:34:23.660
you don't have that sincerity, uh, it's going to wind up biting you in the butt.
00:34:29.800
I mean, he, he spoke to that directly because I think even at the time he published how to
00:34:33.780
win friends, people might say that he was, he was accused of all these things are, you
00:34:40.580
This is about the way you live, the way you treat people.
00:34:45.420
And if you are simply, I mean, if you're simply using these kinds of ideas in a manipulative
00:34:52.040
way, you know, people see that they can tell when they're being flattered.
00:34:56.160
And, and, and that's certainly not what his intention was.
00:34:58.600
His intention was really to help people build better relationships and, and, and really discover
00:35:06.360
It's interesting because there's a great thing.
00:35:08.060
And he says in the beginning of how to win friends, which is, you know, the sole purpose
00:35:11.960
of this book is to help you discover, develop, and profit by, he says, those, these dormant
00:35:20.320
So in, in the prior part of the book, this professor, William James, who you mentioned,
00:35:25.260
I think earlier, you know, had said, compared to what we ought to be, we're only half awake.
00:35:29.580
We're making use of only a small part of our physical and mental resources.
00:35:34.080
So we, we possess so much more capability than, than we even know.
00:35:39.860
And these approaches are things that can help us unlock that, unlock our confidence, unlock
00:35:46.380
our relationships with other people, our, um, our abilities.
00:35:50.680
So what are some day-to-day things that people can do to show appreciation to other people?
00:35:58.580
Um, you know, sometimes, especially it's the beginning of the year and, and people often
00:36:03.560
have a whole range of goals and things that they want to do.
00:36:07.000
But, you know, one thing we do in our Dale Carnegie programs might say, pick one person
00:36:11.540
in your life, an important person in your life.
00:36:13.840
It could be at home, it could be at work, it could be whatever, but someone who's important
00:36:16.880
in your life that you need to have a better relationship with and practice one principle,
00:36:23.180
apply one principle, you know, from how to win friends and influence people.
00:36:27.660
And usually from maybe the first, say nine chapters, because those are really about,
00:36:31.500
you know, that, that initial, how do you start developing a better relationship with
00:36:36.000
So you might say, look, I'm going to give honest and sincere appreciation to so-and-so.
00:36:41.980
So go do that today, one thing today and, and see what happens, you know, or maybe you
00:36:48.960
start to make that a habit and you say, I'm going to, and what I used to do when I took
00:36:53.100
this program was I would apply one principle every day for a week.
00:36:57.220
I would just practice and say, all right, this week I'm going to focus on, and it was
00:37:01.620
hard and I've been doing this for a long time and I'm still not very good at it, is, you
00:37:07.820
Because exactly like you said, you know, earlier, you know, we don't want to be around people
00:37:11.980
who are just negative and complaining and down all the time.
00:37:17.880
I could say, you know, today for one day or this week, I'm really going to pay attention
00:37:25.740
I want to make sure that I'm not going to criticize, condemn, or complain.
00:37:29.260
And maybe not just out of my mouth, maybe it's the things I type on social media or the
00:37:34.640
But, but if someone said, I'm going to have an awareness of how I am presenting in the
00:37:39.860
world, how I, what, what energy and what I'm putting out there, you know, that could be
00:37:45.560
Let's talk about something that Dale talked about.
00:37:47.680
And you also talk about and take command is a lot of these principles of giving appreciation
00:37:52.340
to other people and making them feel important.
00:37:58.100
It's hard when the person is, you don't like them.
00:38:02.880
What insights from Dale Carnegie can we gleam on how to help people feel important and appreciated
00:38:09.200
when, boy, it's really like the last, that's like the last thing you want to do.
00:38:16.380
I mean, there are people that, you know, when we, when we think about them or see them,
00:38:21.220
we might be like, oh gosh, I know this is not going to be a good interaction, but part
00:38:25.980
of what I would say Dale would start at is, you know, number one in, he had a great quote.
00:38:33.140
He quotes Ralph Walder Emerson is someone who said, every person I meet is my superior in
00:38:40.560
So, you know, he might even take somebody that is not a favorite person and say, well,
00:38:48.580
Or allow that person to talk and to listen, even if you don't like what they're, what
00:38:52.980
they are going to say, but just go through the exercise of, you know, going back to trying
00:38:58.620
I think Dale's perspective was that, you know, in most cases, you're going to find
00:39:04.960
If you, if you put your own guard down and you try to focus on that person, you're going
00:39:12.220
And if you do, that can be the beginning of, of something you build on.
00:39:15.900
Now, one of the things we talk about and take command, we have a chapter on dealing with
00:39:21.800
And, you know, part of the reality is that we need to have boundaries for how we're going
00:39:33.760
Let's just say that I have a boss who gives me a project and I'm like, oh gosh, here he
00:39:41.540
But have you, have you let the boss know that you're overwhelmed?
00:39:45.240
Have you had a conversation about, you know, if you take this on the impact it's going to
00:39:55.840
So, you know, when we are dealing with those difficult people, we might also start with a,
00:40:07.140
Often we make assumptions about what people are thinking about us or what they're going
00:40:12.020
to do when in fact it's our assumptions that are the problem.
00:40:16.060
Sometimes we're the problem because we're blaming other people, but, but we ourselves might
00:40:24.380
I think a lot of people struggle with that, or at least I struggle with that, the boundary
00:40:28.580
And the problem that I have is I don't communicate them to other people.
00:40:31.980
And I just assume, well, you should just know, you should just know that this is unacceptable.
00:40:37.740
And that's, you go back to Dale Carnegie, he would say, Brett, that's a completely different
00:40:43.700
In order for that to, to happen, you have to communicate your boundaries.
00:40:49.940
And get people the benefit of the doubt, at least in the beginning, you know, I mean,
00:40:54.220
certainly, you know, it is rumored and I don't know if this is true.
00:40:58.920
You know, Dale Carnegie and how to win friends has 30 principles and it's rumored that he had
00:41:04.520
considered a 31st principle, which is that if none of these principles work, kick them in
00:41:09.000
the shins and leave, but that never made the book.
00:41:14.000
So I guess it's kind of just maybe more of a story.
00:41:18.860
But, you know, I think he would say you really try to work with people and you think about
00:41:24.860
And in some cases, if it's not going to work, it's not going to work.
00:41:28.100
But you do everything you can to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to build the
00:41:34.460
But there are some situations where, you know, you need to break the relationship where you
00:41:39.040
say you shouldn't be around someone who's going to be persistently negative or someone
00:41:42.620
who's just going to bring you down or someone who's acting in a way that violates your values
00:41:58.280
Whenever I've done that, it seems to go better.
00:42:00.700
Every now and then you get burned, but I think it's the price you got to pay for just having
00:42:08.760
Let's talk about this third section, which is about developing a vision for your life.
00:42:13.600
Curious, how did this come out of Dale Carnegie's work?
00:42:15.980
Or is this something that developed after how to win friends and influence people and how
00:42:22.700
So this third part of the book is really comes from the Dale Carnegie course.
00:42:27.100
So just to take it one step back, and I think you've done a great job of touching on this.
00:42:32.240
The first part of take command is take command of your thoughts and emotions.
00:42:37.060
You know, so if you, I mean, you can't, you can't do anything if you can't take command
00:42:45.120
How do you deal with, you know, negativity or negative thoughts and so forth?
00:42:51.100
And so that comes from how to stop worrying and start living.
00:42:55.220
The second part, how to win friends, it comes from how to win friends and influence people
00:43:00.760
So all the wisdom of Dale Carnegie, we've synthesized and built on in that second part.
00:43:05.440
So this third part, which goes to your question about where did this come from, is take command
00:43:14.440
And so in the Dale Carnegie course, and these are courses that come, you know, you can take
00:43:18.940
a three-day Dale Carnegie course, an eight-week or 12-week, there's different versions of this,
00:43:22.900
but they all focus on this idea of being intentional, of taking risk, of, you know, sometimes, and I
00:43:31.640
know about you, Brett, I've certainly had the occasion where, say you get on social media and
00:43:36.580
you find yourself scrolling, you're scrolling, next thing you know, an hour's gone by, you're
00:43:40.960
And if that's what you wanted to do, that's fine, but our lives can often get caught up
00:43:50.560
And so days go by, you get caught up in to-do lists and so forth, days and weeks and months,
00:43:54.980
all of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, years have gone by.
00:43:57.680
So in the Dale Carnegie course, we focus on, in part three of take command, we focus on
00:44:06.400
What's important to, you know, you, is it your family?
00:44:16.980
You know, but what's the future like that you want for yourself?
00:44:21.000
And then what are the things you need to do to kind of go in that direction?
00:44:24.360
Because at the end of the day, if someone's reading take command, we want them to be able
00:44:30.120
And you can't do that if you don't know what kind of life you want.
00:44:33.880
So that's, that's a lot of where that came from.
00:44:36.780
So yeah, the first part is just developing a vision for your life.
00:44:39.140
And there's some, you offer some great questions of reflection that people can ask themselves,
00:44:43.160
practices of developing maybe a vision statement that's going to guide all the big decisions
00:44:50.600
And then also I talk about, you know, making sure you develop a life of meaning.
00:44:54.540
I think oftentimes when people think about self-improvement, they're thinking about how can
00:44:59.000
I advance my career, how to make more money, how can I get more fit?
00:45:02.500
But, but what you do in that last chapter is talk about, well, that's, that's all fine
00:45:06.080
and good, but don't forget to develop a life of meaning.
00:45:13.300
I mean, so often we can be, especially when we're younger, very self-focused and, and
00:45:18.640
understandably so we're focused on our careers and getting established and so forth.
00:45:22.660
But if we talk to people who are at the end of their lives and they're reflecting on their
00:45:26.400
lives and so many surveys have, have talked about this, you know, people will often regret
00:45:33.140
things that they didn't do or relationships that they didn't repair or, you know, just
00:45:38.020
they, they maybe thought that they would have had more of an impact.
00:45:41.160
And we think it's very important to think about, you know, how do you want to be remembered
00:45:47.260
And it doesn't have to be, you know, we certainly have some stories and some examples of people
00:45:50.980
who had massive impact, you know, someone who is just so upset about the oceans that
00:45:58.500
she starts the largest sustainable ocean alliance in the world, you know, so there are those
00:46:05.600
But then we also have, you know, stories about people.
00:46:08.420
I tell a story about my father, who was a recovering alcoholic who spent 51 years without a drink
00:46:13.080
and, you know, who, who touched people around him and encouraged them to stay sober.
00:46:19.220
I mean, so we, we can have impacts as you as a father, you, you, you know, you were talking
00:46:23.440
about your son and in wanting your son to be successful and thriving as he gets older and
00:46:31.760
I mean, that that's impact, but it starts with you saying, this is how I want to spend my
00:46:36.640
You're not spending your time at that particular point doing something else.
00:46:41.440
And this part of the book is really an important section that gets to what's important to you.
00:46:47.460
Take some time and think about what are your values?
00:46:54.520
You talk, you quote, we've had David Brooks on the podcast to talk about the second mountain.
00:46:58.380
And it's an idea that's really had a big impact on the way I think about my life trajectory.
00:47:05.080
There's, uh, there's two mountains and I think Richard Rohr, he's a Franciscan monk has this
00:47:11.440
But it's like the first mountain of life is, you know, our typical, what we typically think
00:47:15.100
of success goals, getting a career, going to college, getting fit.
00:47:19.380
And then he says, there's this second mountain that we'll have to summon in life.
00:47:22.080
And that's about, it's not about the opportunities of the first mountain.
00:47:25.880
It's, um, about kind of rejecting them and looking for, uh, more of a life of meaning.
00:47:30.360
And that, and like, it could, that could look different for, for different people.
00:47:33.720
It could be, you spend time doing community service with, uh, children or sports team,
00:47:39.900
or it could be like you're a grand grandfather and you're going to spend more time with your,
00:47:44.160
It's going to, the second mountain usually chooses you.
00:47:49.540
And often it's, it's based on your situation and it, it does choose you.
00:47:54.920
I think it also connects to your values though.
00:47:57.220
I mean, so in other words, it's, it, you know, there's, there's a saying that, um, when
00:48:02.680
And, and I think that's true a little bit about legacy when, you know, there's certain things
00:48:07.300
that are important to us, certain things that connect to, uh, our meaning.
00:48:11.620
And, and, you know, we, we might, as we look around, see things that connect to those and
00:48:17.620
So go, go toward those things, whether it's, as you said, I mean, it could be your family
00:48:22.820
or it could be your, you know, people around you at work.
00:48:25.980
It could be something larger or some sort of a legacy kind of a thing.
00:48:30.200
But, you know, the reality is that, you know, we are in a life right now and this is the life
00:48:36.280
And as I said, in the book, my dad always used to say, we're not, no one gets out alive.
00:48:40.840
So, you know, in every day that we have, um, and again, I, I say this not in a macabre
00:48:46.240
or a negative way, in a way to cherish the value of every single day, you know, every
00:48:51.420
day that you have is one less day that you have left.
00:48:57.880
And if we've, and this goes back even to mindset, if we've got the right mindset, boy, we
00:49:04.360
We can see wonderful things and gifts and just great things around us.
00:49:13.920
Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work?
00:49:16.940
So the first place I'd say is dalecarnegie.com.
00:49:20.320
That is really all about our Dale Carnegie organization.
00:49:24.160
Also, there's a, a site, which is, um, takecommand.com.
00:49:28.760
They can also go to takecommandbook.io, which will take them directly to Amazon to buy the
00:49:36.260
I'm also very active on LinkedIn and Twitter with the, uh, the handle of Joseph K. Hart.
00:49:45.780
And I'll continue to share insights and experiences and things as I go along my way.
00:49:53.560
And if people, you know, my, my hope would be too, I, you know, I hope that people, you
00:49:59.520
know, have the mindset of, of wanting to get better.
00:50:02.060
I mean, I'm assuming, Brett, that because they're listening to your podcast and you've
00:50:04.840
got a phenomenal podcast and site and organization that you, you lead, that they are interested
00:50:10.500
in, in self-improvement, um, the single most valuable thing I've ever done for my self-improvement
00:50:17.320
Um, so I would certainly encourage people who are open to that, to do that, but reading
00:50:21.880
how to win friends, reading how to stop worrying, reading, take command.
00:50:24.800
Those are things also that can help people on their journey.
00:50:32.360
You know, Dale really cared about people and, and helping people live the life that they
00:50:44.700
It's available on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere.
00:50:46.940
You can find more information about Dale Carnegie and associates at dalecarnegie.com.
00:50:51.060
Also check out our show notes at aom.is slash Carnegie, where you can find links to resources,
00:51:03.940
Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast.
00:51:06.700
Make sure to check out our website at artofmanliness.com, where you can find our
00:51:09.680
podcast archives, as well as thousands of articles written over the years about pretty much anything
00:51:14.480
And if you'd like to enjoy ad-free episodes of the AOM podcast, you can do so on Stitcher
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Head over to stitcherpremium.com, sign up, use code MANLYS at checkout for a free month
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Once you're signed up, download the Stitcher app on Android iOS, and you can start enjoying
00:51:27.800
And if you haven't done so already, I'd appreciate if you take one minute to give us your view
00:51:35.060
Please consider sharing the show with a friend or family member who you think would get something
00:51:38.900
As always, thank you for the continued support.
00:51:42.320
Remind you to only listen to the AOM podcast, but put what you've heard into action.